Murdaugh Murders Podcast - MMP #83: Alex Murdaugh Verdict: How We Got to Guilty + Creighton Waters Interview

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

Now that Alex Murdaugh has been convicted in the murders of his wife and son, it’s time to take a look back on all the pieces that had to come together for the jury to deliver that guilty verdict. Mandy Matney and Liz Farrell talk about key testimony in the case and also had a fun chat with South Carolina prosecutor Creighton Waters himself.  Looking ahead, we have big plans to expand our particular style of journalism to other cases across the country — cases that would be solved if not for local corruption in law enforcement and other government agencies, but we still have a lot of work to do with this case. Over the next few months we will be redoubling our efforts into our investigation of the Stephen Smith Case. Sandy, Stephanie and the entire Smith family deserve to see justice in this case, which should have been solved in 2015. So this is a big day — we hope a new day — in South Carolina.  And stay tuned, we are just getting started... Consider joining our MMP Premium Membership community to help us SHINE THE SUNLIGHT! CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3BdUtOE We all want to drink from the same Cup Of Justice — and it starts with learning about our legal system. By popular demand, Cup of Justice has launched as its own weekly show. Go to cupofjusticepod.com to learn more or click the link in the episode description to get a hot cup of justice wherever you get your podcasts! Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cup-of-justice/id1668668400 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Itp67SQTZEHQGgrX0TYTl?si=39ff6a0cc34140f3 SUNscribe to our free email list to get alerts on bonus episodes, calls to action, new shows and updates. CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3KBMJcP And a special thank you to our sponsors: Microdose.com, VOURI, and others. Use promo code "MANDY" for a special offer! Find us on social media: Facebook.com/MurdaughPod/ Instagram.com/murdaughmurderspod/ Twitter.com/mandymatney Twitter.com/elizfarrell YouTube.com/c/MurdaughMurders Support Our Podcast at: https://murdaughmurderspodcast.com/support-the-show Please consider sharing your support by leaving a review for MMP on Apple at the following link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/murdaugh-murders-podcast/id1573560247 “Soak Up The Sun” Words and Music by written by Sheryl Crow and Jeffrey Trott © RESERVOIR MEDIA MANAGEMENT, INC., Universal Music Enterprises, Administered by ANTHEM ENTERTAINMENT All Rights Reserved. Used with Permission. Universal Project No. 106160, Anthem License: SL-019971, Reservoir License: 30030  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I now know beyond a reasonable doubt that Elik Murdoch murdered his wife Maggie and his son Paul after a Colletin County jury found him guilty on all four counts. He was sentenced to life in prison and that is a big deal. My name is Mandy Matney. I have been covering the Murdoch family for four years now. This is a very special episode of the Murdoch Murders podcast. M&P is produced by my husband David Moses and written by my best friend Liz Farrell. So it happened.

We got to a real guilty verdict. This is a pivotal moment of this podcast but not at all the end. While it was ultimately the public servants of South Carolina led by prosecutor Creighton Waters who secured the guilty verdict, I just want to take a moment to thank those who believed in us and encouraged us to keep going all of this time. It's honestly amazing that we still have a podcast and it's especially amazing that Elik Murdoch was found guilty of murder and will likely spend the rest of his life behind bars. The good guys won for once and we're now in a territory that we never really imagined when

we started in June 2021. We could not have gotten to this point without our awesome team who I want to thank very quickly. Allie Pavlich and Jesse Garrett, our video partner Eric Allen and of course our cup of justice co-host Eric Bland. Neil Meredith Shelby and Orrin from UTA. Justin Bamberg whose birthday was this week. The AdLarge team, Greg Finch, Callie Lyons, Beth Braden and Sam Berlin on our research team and a special shout out to Sam's mom and huge M&P fan Caroline who also has a birthday this week. To Des Lombardo on our YouTube team and all of the M&P premium members and over two million

listeners for helping support our mission to expose the truth wherever it leads. At this point all of you are very clear on just how big of a deal this guilty verdict is to those of us who live in the low country. A Murdoch was put on trial for murdering his family in Colleton County and the jury found him guilty. The unlikelihood of that conclusion, the unlikelihood that Alec Murdoch would be facing those charges in the first place cannot be understated. If this were the good old boy days of Buster Murdoch, there would have been another man standing at Alec's place to take the fall or there would have been no trial at all. Maggie and Paul's deaths would have been forgotten,

there would have been no justice and that is the truth of it. So this is a big day and we hope a new day in South Carolina. We knew that he did this to Maggie and Paul. This is exactly how the case needed to end but until we heard those four guilty verdicts read by the Colleton County clerk of court Becky Hill, it wasn't an outcome that we could ever be certain about. Over the past few days, we've been reflecting on the magnitude of this case and what we hope it will mean for the future of law enforcement and prosecution in our state. More specifically, what it will mean for the future of other powerful people who break the law and assume that they can pay their way out of the situation. Until we are all held accountable to the same laws regardless

of our positions of influence, our financial portfolios, our race, our age, our gender, our sexual orientation, our political beliefs, there will be no justice in the justice system in our opinion. This verdict is a huge step in the right direction. We hope this outcome inspires those who work within the system and those of us who do not, those of us on the sidelines who need to call out injustice when we see it. That said, the road to Ellic Murdoch being found guilty was not an easy one for anyone to travel, starting with the night of the murders. Here is Colleton County Sheriff's Deputy Chad McDowell about 17 minutes after he arrived at Moselle. Hearing that on body camera was a stark reminder of how it is down here, or at least how it was in

June 2021. From the get-go, the Murdoch name meant something to law enforcement. It meant that whatever the scenario was, their ability to do their jobs would be affected by this outside force, this undeniable influence in some way. This undeniable influence required an army to defeat it, so today we wanted to take a look at that army and all the elements that contributed to this amazing outcome. Let's start with the most important one. This case required a prosecutorial team that could and would go the distance. One that could withstand the political pressure from Dick Harpultian and other powerful attorneys in the state, including from PMPD itself. One that wasn't tainted by its own connection to the Murdoch name. When we talk about the corruption that the Murdoch name

has long been associated with in the 14th Circuit, we're talking about complex relationships, actions, and motivations for those actions. While there is no one method to this madness, it's these complex relationships that are at the heart of the problem. We have talked time and again about how the 14th Circuit solicitor Duffy Stone didn't recuse himself from the case until August 2021. The date of Ellick's interview was sled when Agent David Owen outright asked Ellick if he had murdered Maggie and Paul. I feel like we can say with a lot of confidence that had the South Carolina Attorney General's office not taken over this case, we would not be talking about this guilty verdict today.

We needed that big Creighton energy, and that's what he gave us. Prosecutor Creighton Waters didn't flinch. He didn't mince words. He didn't miss an opportunity to remind the court just who Ellick Murdoch really was, right through to the very end. Here's Creighton right before Judge Clifton Newman sentenced Ellick to two consecutive life sentences. And I've looked in his eyes, and he liked to stare me down as he would walk by me during this trial, and I could see the real Alex Murdoch when he looked at me. The depravity, the callousness, the selfishness of these crimes are stunning, the lack of remorse, and the effortless way in which he lies, including here sitting right over there in this witness stand.

Your Honor, a man like that, a man like this man, should never be allowed to be among free law-abiding citizens again. So there is a long list of people that we wanted to interview after the trial, but at the very top was prosecutor Creighton Waters, a man who put his everything into this case to secure a guilty verdict for the state, and we got him. On Monday afternoon, we talked to Creighton Waters about the trial, the justice system, and the significant work he and his team put into this case. We started by asking what were the biggest moments for him during this trial? Well, I think, you know, if I was going to kind of go in order, that very first day when those jurors start coming in, and all of a sudden, you know, you kind of realize that

this is real, and this is happening, and, you know, you're at the edge of the bottom of the mountain, and, you know, it's going to be a long climb. I just remember that first day just kind of sinking in as those jurors started to file in that, oh, wow, I mean, we're about to do this thing, and it's going to be such a long and hard fight, and it turned out to be even longer than we thought. I think by the time we got there, we realized it was going to be longer than three weeks, but I didn't know it was going to go six. As the, you know, the other big moment I remember was just getting that opening out of the way, you know, once we had a jury selected, just doing that opening, you know, openings tend to be pretty short, and that there was that storm on the way, and that was

already kind of a theme that I had been using, and it just seemed so, you know, perfect that that storm was coming when I was talking about that storm that Alec was from Maggie and Paul, and then, you know, going forward, it was just, it was such a, you know, the team, we were kind of like, it was like dorm life again, you know, we were all living in this hotel, and we had one room that was our war room, just that's all it was, and, you know, everybody's working all night, and then getting up early and working and working all day, and, you know, there's just so many, just such an interesting experience there throughout the entire process, and then, of course, I always thought Alec would testify, and to me, that was, you know, that seemed to be a very crucial

moment of the trial, and so that was, that was really huge, and, you know, I had a last series of questions that I was going to ask him on that cross, and having to wait for however many hours it was to kind of close with that, you know, I remember that, that just, you know, being a big moment, and, and so those are just some of them that come to mind when you ask that question. We also talked about the moments when things did not go quite as expected. Obviously, there, you know, Jim and Dick and, you know, are very good lawyers and fellow Maggie, too, and so, you know, we knew that was, that was going to be a fight, and that they were going to make their points, they were going to have good cross, and, you know, this

witness, though, that witness, and, you know, you just have to keep, keep going, you know, it's, it can be in a trial like that, you know, you outwardly have to be calm and, you know, never bothered, but certainly there's times where, you know, the defense is, you know, making points or cross-examining a witness and, you know, your insides are just turning, but you got to just keep, keep digging and, and hope that you can get your point across at the end. A few times in couple of justice, we have talked about the prosecution and defense as though they were sports teams, and we consider how far up the prosecution was or how many points the defense scored on a particular day. We asked Creighton if they were doing that same thing.

No, I don't think that that's, that's how I looked at it, and I don't think that, you know, I felt that way, you know, obviously during the state's case, you know, we're kind of building this, this, this, this narrative and, you know, and, of course, we're kind of, you know, the defense makes their points during cross, but we're, you know, we've kind of got the momentum and during the state's case, and then the defense case happens and, and then they start to do the same thing, and so you can kind of feel it shift back the other way, and then, you know, you get the rebuttal case, and you get, you know, the cross-evaluac and then closing, and you feel it shift them back the other way. You know, one thing I had the advantage of doing was looking at those

jurors in the eyes, and, you know, and of course all the members of the team did, all the attorneys, you know, had a chance to do that, and, you know, you can kind of get a sense of, you know, if it's resonating or not, but, you know, you try not to overly think about that. I mean, all you can do is present your case, and then it's going to be out of your hands, and, you know, trial lawyers, I've said over and over again, we can be superstitious, and, you know, you try not to dwell too much on that, because the evidence that you have is the evidence you have. You're going to present it regardless, and, and so if you get yourself bogged down and to worry in too much about, you know, where's the meter right now, you know, I think you can get off your game. You

just focus on getting at your evidence, and then, you know, bring it home in the end. We talked about what it was like for Creighton and his team to try this case in front of a worldwide audience, something none of them had experienced before. Well, you know, there's obviously no, never had an experience like that, and, and I don't know that any of us will, again, you know, obviously there's still cases pending, and, and, and this thing is, has a lot of heads to it, and I can't comment specifically on anything pending, but, but this, this was obviously the big one, and, you know, the, the scene outside with all the media tents, all the people that, that showed up, we had, you know, really great support from the

public, a lot of smiles, the community was great. So it was, it was absolutely unique. But again, to go back to the sports analogies, this is something else we talked about, you know, I've heard players in the Super Bowl say that, you know, when they get ready for the Super Bowl, there's a lot more nerves, and, you know, there's so much more emphasis that there's so much more media attention, and all this other stuff going on. But then when you get out there, and you run your first play and make your first, you know, tackle or catch or whatever it is, take your first hit, then it's just another game. And that's what we try to do. Obviously, we're not entirely immune to all of that. It's completely different. But again, the more we

can normalize this as a trial, very complex and difficult trial, but just being a trial and sort of just focus on, on handling court as we would, you know, the better we could. Obviously, that's not entirely successful. We, we, you know, there, there was just such a scene around there. You know, I remember first arriving on Saturday, and there was only one food truck, truck out there, and it was like an elephantier truck, like you see at the fair. And I remember joking, I even joke this to Judge Newman once, so why don't we just go ahead and get a roller coaster and a ferris wheel out here. But, you know, but I will say this, everybody was really great. So many people gave us encouragement. So many members of the community, the people at the

hotel were great. We made friends with these folks, and it was actually kind of, you know, feel a little bit nostalgic when I was packing up my hotel room for the last time. And in case you were wondering whether he knew that people were cheering him on, by calling him BCE, i.e. Big Crate and Energy, here's what he had to say about that. Well, yeah, I know that there's some t-shirts out there, and I've heard, I've been told, Liz, you're the one who kind of coined that term. Yeah, you know, I think, yeah, I've heard some of that. And, you know, I started, I got, I did my first tweet ever on Saturday. And, you know, I obviously have seen that term used in some of the responses that

people have been sending. And I think the Friday, you know, there were, there were some people wearing that shirt. And I went over and spoke to them and took a picture with them. I figured I couldn't, I think I was doing an interview or something. I couldn't just let them sit there and watch and not go over and speak to them. So, but yeah, I guess I did the thing now, because, you know, that trial was so exhausting. And I still, you know, I don't think, you know, I know I still haven't recovered yet and ended up losing like 10 pounds. But, you know, having that term out there, you know, and, you know, sometimes when you had to dig deep, you know, you realize that, you know, that, that you had to give that energy, right? And so that, you know, we tried to sustain

that. And again, you know, this was a big team. And it had to be a big team, because not one of us could have survived if it was just one or two of warriors and a couple of staff members. You know, we had to have a big team so that we all could have the energy to make it through that process. And, you know, everybody had their role. You saw them all in action. The staff members, you know, don't get up and speak as much, but they are crucial, sometimes even more crucial. And, you know, I don't think any others could have made it if we didn't have every single member of that team that was there. Crayton's team was made up of investigators, prosecutors, paralegals, and other support staff. In addition to the Attorney General himself,

Alan Wilson, Sled, and Sled Chief Mark Keel, along with other law enforcement agencies, it was this team that was crucial to getting us to guilty. And among the more experienced members of the team, there were a lot of firsts, which was really cool to hear. Well, everybody did great. You know, let me just, I don't want to leave anybody out because everybody had their, their moments. You know, obviously the cell phone evidence was key. And John Conrad did a great job of some of that stuff. You know, I had Peter Witalski testify. I think that was the first time he had ever testified in General Sessions Court. Johnny James is a great attorney, really kind of my, you know, has been my right-hand man and the white collar stuff.

He has a lot of courtroom experience, but that was, you know, his first witness in front of a jury. Carson Bernie was our forensic accountant. He did amazing work, as you know, on all this white collar stuff, which again, is still pending. And Alec is presuming us, I mean, tied to a fair trial and that will be clear. But Carson, you know, testified and got qualified as an expert for the first time. Savannah did a great job with some really tough crime scene stuff. You know, we even got my mentor and boss, Zelinka, up there, you know, and I thought that was, that was good. You know, just there were moments for everybody. You know, my paralegals and staff members keep me going. I couldn't survive without Carly. She's just absolutely

amazing. Izzy is my investigator and not only did he have to follow me around all the time, but he had some really good insights, you know, and just really provided some great insights. And then David Fernandez is my right-hand man and just did some really, did a great cross, I thought, on Sutton, their expert, among other things in this case. And then I can't leave out Sled. I mean, Sled, I get to lead the state grand jury. And of course, this was not a state grand jury case. The white collar stuff is. But what the state grand jury does best is, you know, it's that partnership of the AG and Sled, you know, on the front end of cases. And, you know, in this particular case with the murders, we didn't get involved until

September, but September 2021. But, you know, we have that experience working together with our partners at Sled. And, you know, I don't want to leave anybody out because, you know, all those agents did such a great job. You know, Colleton County was great. Kenny Kenzie was awesome. So it's just, it was such a team effort. And, you know, everybody was coming to that hotel. We were working, as you can imagine, you're working 12, 15, I think one time I worked 21 straight hours and everybody's really pulling their way. So there was a lot of fun too. I think everybody else probably got to go out a little bit more and go to the food trucks more than I did and maybe having occasional soda pop or two. But we had a good time and it really was like being in college

again, just living dorm life and staying up late and cramming, just that kind of stuff. Yeah. And let me do this before I go on. I don't want to leave anybody out. And I'm not intending to. Danielle and Shane were just awesome and wrangling witnesses and I don't want to leave out metters who haven't been for years. I started my career as doing an appellate lawyer and did some of his bigger trials on appeal, such as Dwayne Herring and Christopher Pittman. And so we've known each other for years and, you know, reconnected at the, you know, prosecutor's conference, which is in September and brought him in. And obviously, you know, metters, you know, and his Baptist preacher, I think he's the son of a Baptist preacher and

his Baptist preacher style, you know, just did great with the witnesses that he did and obviously did that rebuttal argument. And so that was great. So definitely I, you know, as I started going through the litany of people, you know, I did enough of them that I want to make sure to cover everybody and everybody was just clutch. Because we felt strongly that the justice system in South Carolina was on trial, along with Alec Murdoch. We wanted to get Creighton's thoughts on this. Here's what he said. You know, I'm a firm believer in it. And it's not perfect. And, you know, we all know that. But I, you know, working with the St. Grand Jury is really unique. Because grand juries, and the way the St. Grand Jury operates is not like the County Grand Jury.

You know, we get into great detail in our cases before the St. Grand Jury, because it is an investigative procedure. And so we, you know, we examine witnesses, we put in a lot of our testimony, and we get to, because it's an investigative procedure and we serve as the legal advisor for the St. Grand Jury, we get to interact with the jurors more. And that can really help you understand, you know, how, you know, individual jurors from various walks of life, view things and how, more importantly, they end up interacting with one another. And so that to me has just strengthened my belief in our system and as a general rule. And that's not to, you know, wear rose-colored glasses. But I just think that there is a common collective

wisdom that comes with getting 12 folks off the street and put them in a room and having to make these huge weighty decisions. And so that's, you know, that's, that's kind of reaffirmed my faith in all of this. You know, we knew that, you know, this, people asked about change of venue and that sort of thing. And, you know, where are we going to go, right? I mean, that might have worked 20, 30 years ago to go to Greenville or, you know, Pickens or something like that. But we could have gone and picked a jury in Ohio and probably people would know about it there as well. And so I'm always a firm believer in letting the community where the crime occurred have their voice. And so, you know, the fact that we got through that process and the manner in which it

went, you know, really reaffirmed, you know, kind of a faith I have in the system. And, you know, I think that as we look at some of the things that we can do better as far as just the process itself, you know, obviously having this kind of intense media attention, one thing I've been trying very, very hard. And I think early on, just some criticism from you folks, I was told, you know, about just trying to protect some of the evidence in this case, particularly the autopsy photographs and the crime scene photographs, you know, we have to remember this case. This is about what happened to Maggie and Paul. We have to remember that this family has suffered, regardless of a particular family member's viewpoint of the case. And, you know,

I just, I wanted to try to make sure that because of the intense interest that, you know, there's still some dignity and privacy for them. And, you know, I think towards the end there, some photograph got out. And, you know, that was very concerning to me. And so trying to integrate that part better. And then, you know, these old courthouses and courtrooms are really designed for something like that. So everything was just so tight, we were on top of each other. You know, the sound system didn't work right the first day. So we actually went and got a Fender PA system, like you would use to play an acoustic, you know, set at a coffee shop or something, and actually got a, went to Best Buy and got a little karaoke machine that actually

had flashing lights that kept having to turn off and rigged that out. That was actually our sound system throughout the trial. And, you know, there were things that we thought we had, we planned for and, you know, but we still had to adapt. And, you know, so in the end, you know, I think I said at the press conference the night of, you know, I felt whatever the outcome that, you know, South Carolina had, you know, taking back at some of the other large trials that have gotten a lot of national coverage. I thought on the whole that the court staff, you know, Judge Newman is amazing, the bailiffs, and even in both sides, prosecution ended in a sense. I thought, you know, we made a good showing of ourselves of a process and how it could work. We also talked about the immense

resources that the state dedicated to this case and why it was necessary. Well, so, you know, there's a lot of parts to that. And I think that that's a great point. If there is a fair criticism of our justice system is that money and resources still do matter. This case is completely unique, but this is what the Attorney General's office and its prosecution and state-run jury sections do. And obviously, you know, we're going to devote the appropriate resources if we think are necessary to try a very complex case. The other thing is, is that, you know, again, the white collar cases are still pending. And I want to be clear, I guess, presumed innocent until proven guilty and has every opportunity for a fair trial.

But when you have allegations, you know, one of the things state-run jury, we do a lot of, is corruption and, you know, public corruption and complex narcotics rings and things like that. But when you have allegations that go to sort of the heart of the system of which we're a part, you know, there's a value and an important interest to be explored and vindicated there. And, you know, I think that this case can have, has an immediate effect on what is most important. And that was addressing Alec and what he did to Maggie and Paul. But I think it also has implications or could have implications beyond that. And those are important. And, you know, if, you know, things about the system can be exposed that make it better

and make it fairer for all, then I think that that's a good thing. They filed a motion for a speedy trial and the state said, we'll be ready in January and Judge Newman said, well, that's fine with me. And so court administration scheduled it. And that's why this one, you know, moved a little bit quicker because we do sort of operate, you know, as a, you know, as a different in a different sort of procedural mechanism than the regular solicitor's offices do. But also because of that, we're always the visiting team, right? So, you know, we have to say why practice and so it's just a different thing. We asked Creighton how he feels now that the murder trial is over.

I think I'm still a little bit numb by all of this. You know, I don't know if I've already said this in this conversation, but, you know, my eyes popped open at, you know, around five o'clock this morning. And I'm trying to convince my body that, you know, we don't have anything we have to do today. And my body's like, I don't know what you're talking about, man, but you got to get up right now. And, you know, I just, I don't know that it's really sunk in yet. You know, Thursday we got that verdict about seven o'clock or whatever time it was. And then there was kind of a whirlwind there at a press conference. And, you know, but I still had, you know, I still had court the next morning. We had a sentencing the next morning. And then I knew it would be a whirlwind

day of, you know, media appearances and that sort of thing. So, you know, I wasn't really able to, you know, too much have that celebration or that, you know, that, you know, that chance to really unwind. And then, you know, then kind of went into the weekend and you're getting back, back home and, you know, seeing everybody and trying to integrate yourself back into your real life. And so, you know, it's still kind of new. And I just, I don't know that I've even really fully adjusted back or even had a chance to accept or, you know, really internalize what that verdict meant. And I just know that I remember thinking when I heard guilty that, you know, how proud I was of this team. And the reason was that, you know, I had everybody working so hard for so long. And

I think we would all been okay if we just put it all out there. You know, and once you do that, you put it in the jury's hands and know that you've done the job and the best you could do. And I think we've been okay with that. But, you know, knowing that all that work actually resulted in that verdict and a voice from Maggie and Paul and that all that work I put everybody through, you know, came to a successful conclusion. That was probably the thing that I immediately felt when I heard guilty. We also wanted to know whether he had any sense that a guilty verdict was coming. You know, you don't count your chickens till they hatch. And when Ms. Becky said we're guilty, you know, that's the first time I really permitted myself to know what I get. My first

thought was I'm not sure I'm glad I didn't make everybody work like this. And we end up not having a successful result, even though, again, I think we would have all been proud of ourselves and felt we'd done all we could do. And because many of you asked, we asked Crayton about the significance of that goosey, I mean, Gucci receipt. Actually, goosey is, you know, that was just something that I kind of noticed on the fly as we were going with Jeff's testimony. That was one of the things that he had recovered in the trash. And so I just kind of just pointed that out. And, you know, I think that a lot of people said, well, they spend a lot of time on the finances, but I think it was important. You know, and it wasn't as simplistic as the

defense tried to make it seem. I think what we tried to show was just a myriad of factors that were going on in this man's life, pressure points from various parts of his life, a life that no one who was close to him knew, and that they were all sort of converging together as we moved to June 7th. And, you know, we never know exactly what was going on in his mind, and not less one day he decides to tell the truth about it. But I think that, you know, it was important for the jury to sort of know all those things as they as they approached. And just to kind of get a sense of, you know, how this could happen. You know, and I think I asked him if he was a family highlighter. And, you know, there is there is certainly a concept out there of a, you know,

successful middle-aged man, but who's facing ruin of his life, family break up, substance abuse, you know, in this particular instance, you're talking about the possibility of destruction of family legacy that was very important to him. You know, there's just a lot of factors that were all converging together. And I certainly argued and don't think it's coincidental that those were converging on June 7th. Because the trial was so widely watched, both the prosecution and defense were exposed to much more criticism than they had ever been before. So we asked Creighton about how they handled that new level of scrutiny when literally the entire world was watching them. Well, you have to do it. You know, I certainly have plenty of friends that did listen to y'all's

show. Man, I think this is the first time in life I've ever spoken to you. And Liz, I think I spoke to you briefly like one of the first days of court. And, you know, I just, you know, again, I have a lot of friends that did listen to your show, but this is I never have. And I generally try to avoid that media. I avoided it. I wasn't reading many stories about it. I certainly wasn't watching the TV. People would tell me things. For example, you know, there was a lot of, you know, certainly people can have different perspectives about, you know, closings and about cross and financial stuff. But, you know, we had a reason for doing the things that we did, the way we did them. And so I try to just, I just wasn't paying attention to

that. I think we always are. And I would look for constructive criticism from within the team, from our law enforcement partners, you know, because we are trying to get it right. And you have to be willing to be self critical to do that. But I couldn't worry about, you know, what somebody on, you know, some show, you know, on TV was saying, or, you know, some, you know, lawyer in another part of the country who's never tried a case in South Carolina and doesn't know, you know, how South Carolina processes work and how South Carolina jurors are. You know, this isn't Hollywood. It was real life. And so I didn't pay any attention to any of that. I just kind of focused on, you know, putting this case out there. And that's what we did.

Finally, we asked Creighton, what was the biggest lesson that he learned throughout all of this? That's probably something I should have a quick answer for. I'm not sure that I do. You know, again, the biggest, I think, lesson from all of this is that the system can work. And I think it works well in South Carolina. I think that we've seen other, you know, trials nationally that have gotten a lot of public interest and things, you know, did not go well or the process didn't, you know, quit itself as well. But I think that's really the biggest lesson. You know, I'm a life long resident of the state. And, you know, I love this state and I love the people here. And I think that there's a

lot to love about our legal system and the men and women who are part of it. And I just, I think that whatever the result would have been, I think that we've we acquitted ourselves well on the international stage. And maybe that's that might be the biggest takeaway is just kind of on that. We'll be right back. In addition to BCE and his team, the road to a guilty verdict included sled agents who held their own on the stand and who stood up to Ellick's defense team. Here is agent Ryan Kelly in an exchange with Dick Harputtling about the first time Ellick was arrested. Ellick came back to South Carolina from rehab in Florida. And instead of adhering to the deal he had made to turn himself

in, Ellick did what Ellick wanted and sled had to take action. Dick tried to spin this into Ellick was being cooperative and sled was being aggressive. But agent Kelly was having none of that. The agreement was for us to meet you and Mr. Griffith with Mr. Murdock that no stops be taken from Orlando to Hampton. We encountered Mr. Murdock and Buster pulling into the driveway of the Almeida property. So outside of our agreement. So Mr. Murdock was taken into custody as soon as he arrived at Almeida. Well, um, so perhaps if we weren't going to Orlando stopping to seek get his lawyers before he surrendered himself would have been a violation of our agreement. No, our agreement was that Mr. Murdock was to go from Orlando directly to your custody. Buster,

I don't fault Buster. I don't think that he was doing anything that he thought was was wrong. He was just listening to instructions. But you know, we were supposed to meet him with you. And he showed up at his mom's house. So we are we he was placed under arrest at his mom's house. Well, we showed up at mom's house as y'all were taking him away, right after he was arrested. Yes, right. But I mean, we were there minutes after you arrested him, right? Well, yes, because they called you. So, um, and I think I might have called you to tell you that we were arresting him as well. Right. And then there was Agent Peter Rodolski, who was the last witness presented by the state before the defense got to present its case. Agent Rodolski stood his ground. Here he is

telling Philip Barber that Alex's behavior that night was far from normal. So as an investigator, do you do you think it would be terribly unreasonable that after calling other family members, someone would call the person who is the best friend of the dead son, who had multiple missed messages and calls and even a call coming in during the 911 call is calling that person to ask what's what happened, what's going on. Is that to use an investigator and unreasonable thing to do after calling other family members? I would, as an investigator, I think that would be very odd, given the scene and the whole situation that you're on the phone constantly. Yes. That you're standing there next to your dead son. His phone is ringing for someone and you call that

person after calling other people. Yes, because I am standing over my son and wife and just witnessing that for the first time. I would think that would be to have someone on their phone constantly like that. Right after given the scene and the situation. Yes, as an investigator, I would think that is very wouldn't be someone trying to find out what happened at that moment. That would be the last thing that probably come through my mind as an investigator looking at the scene is trying to figure out what happened minutes after I discover it. I'd be in a state of shock if that was me personally. And speaking of a state of shock, I think you have in the timeline later on, he reads some spam text message about,

I think there's a picture of a woman in a bikini. I wouldn't call a spam text message, it's from Michael Gunn, who'd be one of his friends. A group text. A group text, yeah. And then he googles the name of a restaurant in Nettosto Beach, is that correct? That is what comes up on his phone. Doesn't he also call a videographer he hadn't spoken to in years? Page 42, Brian White. Last entry. That's what the data shows. So he would seem to be in a state of shock. None of that makes any sense, does it? You're not going to Google the name of a restaurant after you find your son murdered. I'm not Alex Murdoch. I don't know what he was thinking at that moment. Probably want to

be on my phone. Really, you wouldn't be calling family? I might be calling family, but I'm going to be. The testimony was done. Rogan was family. If you ask a question, if you want him to answer, you have to give him an opportunity to answer. Proceed. I would not be googling and doing other things with my phone, no. You don't, you think he was, do you believe he was googling a restaurant, or do you think he was fat fingering the phone because he was in shock? I have to go off of the data, and that's what the data shows. And you believe that calling family and calling someone that the prior testimony was, was likely another son is unreasonable in the circumstances? I would say so, yes. Given the fact that you just arrived to the scene, yes.

Agent Rodolski also proved to be too smart to fall for Phil's tricks. So you don't know if a very fast peak speed was simply gunning it past another car? I do not. But at that, that late night hour, I think that'd be with, you know, the area. Not a lot of people out. I mean, that's just total speculation. You don't know if there's another car. Just like yours is total speculation, right? You passed someone, that'd be great. Yep, I do not know. You don't know if there were any other cars out there to pass, you don't know if he was passing another car, you just don't know, do you? I do not, just like with your first question. Also important was having witnesses who stood up for what was right, and who told the truth

about their experiences. Here is Mark Tinsley, aka Zero Dark Tinsley, aka Tiger Tail Tinsley, telling it like it is to Phil Barber in an in-camera hearing. I think it's fair that to say that there wouldn't have been an explosion on June the 10th, but the fuse was lit the moment that that information became available in the case. Not as much to me, but certainly to Danny Henderson, who would have, like the phone records, like some of the other materials reviewed it before I got it? And Ellic would have known that. I mean, in that analogy, isn't, aren't you really saying the fuse was lit when you were going after his assets? And that fuse is going to go down until trial because you're going to go to trial against

him, and that's when the fuse would burn down. I think the fuse was lit when he started stealing money. So it wasn't lit on, it wasn't going to be lit on June the 10th? Certainly getting a lot more oxygen. It was lit way before, and it was going to keep burning well after June 10th. I don't know about well after, but it, it wouldn't have been Judgment Day on June the 10th, but he would have known it was beginning to unravel. And here's Dr. Ellen Riemer during her rebuttal testimony. Dr. Riemer is the medical examiner who performed the autopsies of Maggie and Paul. Dick so badly wanted her to agree with what the defense's witness was asserting. The defense's witness relied on photographs and a textbook to reach his conclusions. Dr. Riemer's

insistence on remaining factual put Dick in full yammer mode. Your honor, your honor, I asked you, I would ask you to tell the witness to be responsive. She is going on a diatribe, excuse me, I'm asking the court to instruct her to answer the question as specifically she can. She, she goes off on tangents and, and I'm sorry, I'm sorry. All right, you may continue answering the question. You remember what the question was? No, that's your question. Is this series of shots from the book depicting a contact wound? I think that's what I understand. Yes. Yes, okay. So where, if you step

down here, show me please where the contact is with the body or the head. Here, let me give you the corner. Well, the contact would be at the first. Right here? Yes. Well, what's the contact? It's not, it's just a theoretical depiction. It's a theoretical depiction. Is that what the book says? Yeah. Well, go ahead. I don't recall the exact, why don't you read it to me? Why don't you tell me, is that a contact wound? I don't know what this is. This is, this is. That's a shotgun. That's a shotgun being fired. There's the pellets coming out. I think, you know, this is, this is a book, you know, showing, showing the series of steps after a shotgun is fired. But it has nothing to do with what I found in the body and does not help me determine the direction of the wound.

All right. And I'm not going to describe to you, you can read it in the book. I don't remember what, how he says all of this. And Dr. Kenny Kinsey, another South Carolinian we are proud to claim, did not give Jim Griffin one inch. Jim wanted Dr. Kinsey to validate the defense's theory on two short shooters coming to Moselle, one of whom shot Paul from inside the feed room. So you say there are more defects on the door? Yes, sir. Did you document any defects that you observed on the door? I got them in a photograph. I can show you. I mean, what other documentation did I need to do it to verify that that's the same door? No, no, I'm just talking about other pellet marks. There are other pellet marks on there. Yes, sir. You just cut that one down. But

if you move up a little bit, you can see the little indentions right there in the paint. All right, back it up, Doug. Right above the hinge, right here, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. There's several of them there. And then you see this pellet here in the... I did not see that, but I'm vertically challenged and I wish I could have looked up and saw that pellet, but I did not see that pellet lodged in that door frame. But I'm glad Mr. Maybach, Pombach, I really say is now I'm glad he found it because that even proves my point a little bit more. Well, I'm going to ask you, according to your shot angle, how would the pellet get there? It's... Really? I mean, the cone, it's a cone. Mr. Griffin, I've already described how shot

pattern works. It's a cone. We'll be right back. And then there were the emotional testimonies, the people who you could just feel their fear radiate from the stand, the people who didn't have to say much to tell us what kind of a system they were used to and why it was so terrifying to be testifying against Elik Murdoch while his family stood behind him, the people who were very brave to tell the truth. Ever since the trial ended, I've watched several interviews with jurors and they mentioned that they believed the prosecution's witnesses were credible and this on top of the kennel video catching Elik in the big lie, which was the most damning piece of evidence they thought. Thank you, Bubba. But I

think these emotional testimonies that were just so authentic and heart-wrenching, those were the ones that stick with us and stuck with the jurors as they made their decision. There was Shelley Smith, who spoke up at great personal risk to her continued employment with Elik's mother. Her testimony was the first to establish that Elik was the type of person who would suggest someone lied for him in conjunction with an offer to help the person financially. And I have to ask you for the record, um, this Alex Murdoch who came and saw you tonight at the murders with the shorts and the shirt and the sphery type, was that him over there? Yes, sir. And is he also the person that you said told you he'd been there 30 or 40 minutes? Yes.

And is he also the person you saw in the house that night with some kind of blue vinyl that you said consistent with this picture we put in? Is that him? Yes. Thank you. There was Blanca Simpson, whose testimony bolstered Shelley's, again showing that Elik thought nothing of getting people on the family's payroll to lie for him. And he said, come here, sit down. So I went in the living room, I sat down, and he was pacing back and forth in the, in the living room. And he said, I got a bad feeling. He said, I got a bad feeling. He said, something's not right. And then he said, he said, well, you know, there's a video, there was a video that was out. I hadn't seen a video. And he said,

you remember the shirt I was wearing, that Vinnie Vine shirt? Those were, that's what he said to me. And in my mind, I was saying, I don't remember Vinnie Vine's shirt. It was the Polo shirt. But I didn't mention, he said, well, you know what? I was wearing that shirt. He said, you know, in the, that day. And still, I was just, I didn't say anything, but I was kind of thrown back because I don't remember that. I don't remember him wearing that shirt that day when he left. I know what shirt he was wearing because I fixed the collar, and the collar's different material. And I don't know what a Vinnie Vine shirt is. But when he left that day, was he wearing a Vinnie Vine shirt? I was wearing the collar he described.

It was a Polo shirt. Polo shirt. Paul's friend, Rogan Gibson, someone who has remained loyal to the Murdoch family for his entire life, was the first to tell Sled that Elik was down at the kennels around the time that Maggie and Paul were killed. Elik denied that Rogan had heard his voice, but in March 2022, when Paul's phone was finally accessed, Sled discovered the kennel video. Rogan was the first on the stand to positively identify the third voice in that video as Elik's. And did you hear, recognize the voices on there? I did. Did you recognize the voices of your second family? I did. And what voices did you hear? Paul's, Miss Maggie, Miss Elik. And how sure are you now? Positive. 100%. That's correct.

Alex, former PMP80 co-worker Mark Ball testified for the defense, but quickly became the state's witness when he too offered proof that Elik had consistently lied about being at the kennels from the start. He said that he ate dinner, laid down on the couch, took a nap, and then left to check on him. Now you know that's not true from seeing the kennel video, right? Do. And that wasn't the only time he told you that, is it? No, at least three times. At least three times. And this would be over the subsequent days? Yes. Subsequent conversations that you had with him? Yes. And he was always clear that he never went down to those kennels after they aged out. Another former partner of Elik's, Ronnie Crosby, a man who clearly loved Paul Murdoch,

testified that Elik had lied to him as well about being at the kennels. On rebuttal, Dick Harpolyan tried to paint Ronnie as a man with a vendetta against Elik. Ronnie didn't waver one time. Sometimes body cam, but in a lot of times written statements. And written statements from witnesses saw it happen. Correct. And so when you interview those people, they have the benefit of reviewing whatever you have to help them get a better recollection of what happened, correct? That's correct. Okay. So the instance you're talking about where Elik told you he turned them over before he made the 911 call, whatever it was, I'm not quite sure, before I think is what you said. If that would be inconsistent with something he says later on

after having reviewed other people's statements, looking at video, that would not be unusual in your business. I think he just said it would not be unusual, correct? Striking. You're trying to take me somewhere that you probably don't want to. No, I think I want to answer the question. We'll draw the question. Let me ask you this question. Maybe just get to the meat of matter here. Have you had to come out of pocket to pay back the money he stole? Yes. How much? Don't tell me you don't know. Well, we're still counting, Mr. Hart Pooley. How much have you paid so far?

We have had to borrow millions to pay back. How much of you had to come out of pocket? Well, when you borrow it, you got to pay it back. And I couldn't tell you how much has exactly been paid back as of we sit here today. But yes, and if you're implying that I would come in here and somehow shade truth in any way because of that, I would take high offense with that, Mr. Hart Pooley. I'm not concerned about your high offense. Are you angry at him for stealing your money? I have no feeling one way or the other. You don't have any feeling about Alec Burdott betraying you and stealing your money. I admire you. I don't know that I could look beyond that. It's sustained. There's not a question and jury is to disregard the argument.

You are not angry with Alec Burdott. I have had anger with him, extreme anger, Mr. Hart Pooley, and because of what he did to my law firm, my partners, my client, his clients, our clients, what he did to his family, what he's did to so many people. Yes, I experienced a lot of anger, but you can't walk around with anger. You have to find a way to deal with it and move forward. And I have done that. And if you suggest you are dead wrong, if you think I've come in here and told this jury something because of money, when we were talking about two people who were brutally murdered, then you're headed in the wrong direction. Do you think he did it? And then there was Maggie's sister, Marion Proctor, who had not spoken publicly about

her sister's death until trial. When she finally did, Marion didn't have to say why she had been silent for so long. It was so clear that she was scared. In the days and weeks following Maggie and Paul's murder, did Alec ever say anything about the vote case? We would talk about the vote case, and he was very intent on clearing Paul's name. What did he say? He said that his number one goal was clearing Paul's name. And I thought that was so strange, because my number one goal was to find out who killed my sister and Paul. But that wasn't Alec's concern, main concern?

I know he must have wanted that too, but I don't know how he could have thought about anything else. He talked about the vote case. Do you ever act scared or afraid that the real killers were out there somewhere, or anything like that? Or was he concerned with the vote case? We were afraid. We didn't know what was going on. My family was scared. I was scared for Alec and Buster. I felt like they needed protection. I think everybody was afraid. Alec didn't seem to be afraid. Another important factor in this trial was the way Colleton County and the City of Walter

Barrow welcomed the public and the media into their home. The high level of transparency and cooperation offered by clerk of court Becky Hill and her staff was fundamental to building public trust in the proceedings. And then there was Judge Newman. He was fair, he was wise, and he was considered. If the judicial system has a soul, it resides with this judge. In Alec's final moments standing before the court, Judge Newman explained his reasoning behind the sentencing, and in doing so he spoke the truth so real that his words continue to echo in the minds of all those who watched. And I know you have to

see Paul and Maggie during the night time when you're attempting to go to sleep. I'm sure they come and visit you. I'm sure. All day and every night. Yeah, I'm sure. And they will continue to do so and reflect on the last time they looked you in the eyes as you looked the jury in the eyes. I don't know a person who's always been such a gregarious, friendly person caused her life to be tangled in such a weave web, such a situation that you yours have spun into. And it's so unfortunate

because you have such a lovely family of such friendly people, including you, and to go from that to this. Your license to practice law has been stripped away from you, turned from a lawyer to witness, and now have an opportunity to make your final appeal as an ex-lawyer. And it's almost, it's really surprising that you're waiving this right at this time. And if you opt to do so, it's on you. You're not compelled to say anything, but you have the opportunity to do so.

And I tell you again, I respect this court, but I'm innocent. I would never, under any circumstances hurt my wife, Maggie, and I would never under any circumstances hurt my son, Paul Paul. Well, it might not have been you. It might have been the monster you become when you take 15, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 opioid pills. Maybe you become another person. I've seen that before. The person standing before me was not the person who committed the crime, though it's the same individual. You'll leave that at that.

At the end of our conversation with Creighton Waters, he reiterated the reason he and his team fought so hard for justice in this case. Yes, we believe the future of our judicial system was on trial along with Alec Murdoch. David took on Goliath and required everyone from Alan Wilson to sled agent Paul Greer to PMPD CFO Jeannie Sackinger to stand up for what's right and to tell the truth, even when it is terrifying. We want one system for all people. One system means fairly applied accountability. And one system means all victims will have a chance to see justice prevail in their cases. Here is Creighton. I just always try to come back to the fact that, you know, this case has gotten so much attention and the process of the case

deservedly so. You know, it deserves talking about and attention. And those of us, you know, fortunately enough to work on it, they're getting attention. But, you know, always try to remember that, you know, what's at the core of this thing is, you know, the brutal horrors of Maggie and Paul. And that is, I think, needs to always be the last word. I'm just very, very grateful that all the people that worked on this that allowed that jury to give them a voice. And I think that should always be the final thought when we talk about this case. We've been asked a lot of questions about what we plan to do now that the trial of the century has ended. While we have big plans to expand our particular style of journalism to cases across

the country, cases that would be solved if not for local corruption and law enforcement and other government agencies, we still have a lot of work to do with this case. Over the next few months, we will be redoubling our efforts into our investigation of the Stephen Smith case. Sandy, Stephanie and the entire fifth and the entire Smith family deserve to see justice in this case, which should have been solved in 2015. Here is Sandy. 2023 is Stephen Jere and he will get justice and I will never stop fighting for my baby. If anyone has information on Stephen Smith's murder, please contact Sled or Crime Stoppers. Thank you. We will also push hard for there to be public accountability for all of those involved in

the alleged coverup in the Boat Crash investigation. Whether it's law enforcement officers or friends of the Murdoch family, they must face consequences for what happened. And then there's the bomb threat at the courthouse, the Gloria Satterfield case, Elick's other financial crimes. What happened with that juror who was excused right before Jim Griffin's closing arguments? There's Elick's badges in the 14th Circuit Solicitor's Office. There's Corey Fleming's case, Russell Lafitte's hearing and the potential for more charges against Elick and those in his circle. Stay tuned and stay in the sunlight. On Monday's cup of justice episode number 20, now on the new feed, you may remember Liz, Eric

and Mandy talking about The Winding Road and how surreal it was to be recognized by the amazing singer-songwriter Cheryl Crowe on Twitter. And for the past six months, I've been searching for the right song to share my appreciation with this phenomenal team once the murder trial was over. So naturally, this next bit was fate. Thank you, Cheryl, for encouraging us. It means the world. Thank you, Mandy, for being a light to so many and helping me and others soak up the sun. Used with permission, details in the description. So I'm stuck here watching TV. I don't have digital. I don't have diddly squad. It's not having what you want.

It's wanting what you've got. I'm gonna soak up the sun. I'm gonna tell everyone to lighten up. I'm gonna tell them that I've got no one to blame. Well, every time I feel lame, I'm looking up. I'm gonna soak up the sun. I'm gonna soak up the sun. I've got a coming job.

Don't play near enough to buy the things it takes to admit some of your love. Every time I turn around, I'm looking up, you're looking down. Maybe something's wrong with you that makes you out the way you do. I'm gonna soak up the sun. I'm gonna tell everyone to lighten up. I'm gonna tell them that I've got no one to blame. Well, every time I feel lame, I'm looking up. I'm gonna soak up the sun while it's still free.

I don't have no master suite, but I'm still the king of me. You have a fancy ride, but baby, I'm the one who has the key. Every time I turn around, I'm looking up, you're looking down. Maybe something's wrong with you that makes you out the way you do. Maybe I am crazy too. I'm gonna soak up the sun. I'm gonna tell everyone to lighten up. I'm gonna tell them that I've got no one to blame.

Well, every time I feel lame, I'm looking up. I'm gonna soak up the sun. I've got my 45 on, so I can rock on. Thank you.