Murdaugh Murders Podcast - TSP #119 - Why Accountability Still Matters After Unhinged Cop’s Firing + Why NOT Put Pedos Behind Bars, Alan Wilson?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Halloween is on Disney Plus. Hello. So you can feel a little fear. What's this? Well. Or a little more fear. I see dead people. Or a lot of fear.

Starting point is 00:00:16 Mom? Or you can get completely terrified. Who's that? Choose wisely. With Halloween on Disney Plus. us. I don't know if every person who assaulted children in the Squiresgate incident last week will ever be held accountable for what they did. But we will keep making noise until they do. My name is Mandy Matney. This is True Sunlight, a podcast exposing crime and corruption,

Starting point is 00:00:57 previously known as the Murdoch Murders podcast, which inspired Hulu's original series Murdoch Death in the Family, premiering this October 15th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. True Sunlight is a Luna Shark production, written with journalist Liz Farrell. Well, y'all, let's start by sharing some really good news. Billy Squires, the deputy caught on video holding children at gunpoint last week, was fired from the Beaufort County Sheriff's Office, just one day after our episode published, encouraging our listeners to demand accountability. I know it's a small

Starting point is 00:01:39 step, and I know the deputy should have been fired over a week ago, but this kind of progress matters. Your voices matter. More on that later in this episode, but don't forget that. Y'all are pesky and you make me proud. Now, for some more good news. We are less than a week away from the premiere of Murdoch Death in the Family on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. And we are less than a week away from the premiere of the Hulu Death in the Family official podcast. Also, on Hulu, Hulu on Disney Plus, and wherever you get your podcast. For the last month, the Luna Shark team, but really mostly David and Eric Allen, have been working around the clock to make the best possible eight episodes,

Starting point is 00:02:27 of a companion podcast to a true crime series. And it will be on Hulu, y'all. That is a big deal. The first three episodes where you will hear interviews from showrunner Michael D. Fuller, actor Brittany Snow, who plays me, and actor Johnny Burchdold, who stars as Paul, premiere next Wednesday. This means this will be our last episode together

Starting point is 00:02:52 before David, Liz, and I walk the red carpet next week, and step into our show business era. While there won't be an episode on the True Sunlight Feed next week, don't worry. We have a podcast challenge for y'all in the meantime. In celebration of the Hulu show premiere, we selected 40 episodes from our MMP catalog to remaster and re-release over the next eight weeks. Right here on your premium feed or on your True Sunlight Feed, These episodes take us back to February 24th, 2019, the date of the boat crash.

Starting point is 00:03:29 June 7th, 2021, the date Elyke Murdoch killed his wife Maggie and son Paul. In July 8th, 2015, the day Stephen Smith was found dead on Sandy Run Road, killed by someone who still evades justice to this day. For this project, I have been going back to our old episodes in rewriting the roller coaster of emotions from the early days, and y'all, we've really been through it together. I was actually surprised how many twist and turns that there were, and I hope y'all join us to relisten. It's really just as crazy the second time knowing where we are now. So please, give those a listen. And don't worry, we won't be gone

Starting point is 00:04:11 from true sunlight for long. Y'all know South Carolina's corruption will still be there when we come back, and hopefully we get new listeners in the next few weeks, who will join the Lunashark Army to demand justice and accountability in the cases we cover. As David always says, A rising tide floats all ships. Tuesday marked one year since a man named Lee Gilley called police to tell them that his wife, 38-year-old Krista Bowers, had killed herself by taking drugs. He told police they'd had an argument over his purchase of a vehicle, and hours later he found her dead in the bedroom of their Houston Heights home in Texas. She was nine weeks pregnant, and they had two young children who were home at the time.

Starting point is 00:04:58 The predictability of what happened next is enraging, because as we keep discovering over and over, it seems that husbands everywhere can simply say their wives' untimely deaths at a young age were the result of suicide. And police everywhere will shrug their shoulders and say, Okay, sounds right. Setting the investigation down a path forged by incomprehensible stupidity. What happened next is the medical examiner ruled Krista's death a homicide by compression of the neck.

Starting point is 00:05:31 Something that seems from where we sit right now, anyway, like police should have noticed. Four days after Krista's death, her husband, Lee Gilley was charged with capital murder for the deaths of Krista and their unborn child. Capital murder leaves open the possibility of the death penalty. Immediately after this, Lee followed the script of entitled and privileged mama's boys who think accountability is for others, not for them. He, of course, hired a high-power legal team, led by the famed Dick Degarin, who represented cult leader David Karrasch

Starting point is 00:06:06 and convicted murderer Robert Durst, a man so arrogant. that he allowed a documentary be made about his innocence, but accidentally confessed to himself on a hot mic. After being charged with murder, Vigili started going to a high-profile church, described to us as the place you go in Houston to see and be seen, which he sure was. A website was also created on Lee's behalf,

Starting point is 00:06:34 extolling his skills as a father and heralding his innocence through the use of embarrassing, artificial, intelligent, crafted graphics and essays that seem to be written by an overbearing mother trying to get her son elected to seventh grade school council. Perhaps the worst thing of all, Lee and his family have made life difficult for Christ's family who live in South Carolina and had to fight for the right to bring Christ's two young children there. It's almost like the Gillies don't know that Lee was charged with killing their grandchildren's mother and future sibling. And it's astounding to me that a murder suspect out on a million-dollar bond,

Starting point is 00:07:13 who is lucky to have been given a bond at all, continues to act like he's owed something. On October 1st, Lee Gilley, who is barred from leaving the state of Texas, because, duh, filed a motion with Harris County Court asking for permission to travel to South Carolina for Thanksgiving. He plans to drive from Houston directly to his parents' fountain in home. Lee Gilly is presumed innocent, of course, but he's not presumed trustworthy. The man has nothing to lose right now, and he's asking the court to let him take a 14-hour

Starting point is 00:07:49 jaunt through Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama to get to South Carolina, essentially through the south coast of the United States, with only his ankle monitor on to keep him honest. Who else is picturing the defendant escape scene of everything. free crime movie ever seen right now. Can you imagine getting caught lying about your spouse's cause of death and then getting charged with your spouse's murder and the murder of your unborn baby and still having the audacity to ask for holiday time before your trial? I want you all to remember this next time when you feel like you don't deserve something. If Lee Gilley can ask the

Starting point is 00:08:31 court to let him drive himself to South Carolina for Turkey, then you can advocate for yourself to because, my God, we live in a world where wealthy murder suspects think it's okay for them to shoot for the moon. Obviously, we hope the court isn't so deranged as to grant Lee his request. As of today, no hearing has been set and no order has been issued. The next scheduled court appearance for Lee is on November 12th for a status conference. His trial is expected to begin February 20, 26, less than two weeks after what would have been, Krista's 40th birthday. All right, as much as we'd love to have one week

Starting point is 00:09:12 where we don't feel like we have to talk about South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson and why voters should not elect him to be the Republican nominee for governor. Alas, he makes it impossible. And that is because he has given his primary opponent, Congresswoman Nancy Mace, a whole lot of material to work with in her request to be governor. On Monday night, Mace posted a budget request from First Circuit solicitor, David Pasco that he had sent to Dorchester County Council in 2022, asking for more money to support his office, taking over local child sexual abuse material cases from the South Carolina Attorney

Starting point is 00:09:49 General's office. Now, why was he doing that? Here's David, our David, with what Pascoe said in the report. At present, all cases involving child pornography and other internet crime, Against Children are handled solely by the South Carolina Attorney General's Office. The SCAG operates in Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force that purports to investigate and prosecute criminal matters involving the creation, transmission, and solicitation of child pornography. These crimes are undoubtedly among the most important cases to vigorously and fully prosecute, to deter the exploitation of children by sexual predators.

Starting point is 00:10:39 In recent months, local law enforcement agencies within the First Judicial Circuit have raised concerns regarding prosecution of these matters by the SCAG and have requested that the First Circuit Solicitor's Office handle prosecution of child pornography cases. The basis for law enforcement's concern is a failure by the SCAG to prosecute these cases efficiently, and leniency by the SCAG in negotiating sentences. In response, I asked my office to review the available statistics concerning child pornography cases

Starting point is 00:11:20 prosecuted by the SCAG in Dorchester County. The child pornography statistics in our county confirm the concerns raised by law enforcement. So the key words that I want you to stick a pin in are these. The basis for law enforcement's concerns is a failure by the SCAG to prosecute these cases efficiently and leniency by the SCAG in negotiating sentences. Okay, as part of that budget request from 2022, Pascoe included some statistics. But first, let's talk about David Pascoe. For 20 years, Pasco has been the solicitor, South Carolina's version of a district attorney for the First Circuit, which includes Orangeburg County, home of thrice accused rapist Bowen Turner when he's not behind bars, Calhoun County, and Dorchester County.

Starting point is 00:12:13 In South Carolina, Pascoe is known as one of the only politicians who consistently pursues cases involving unethical and dishonest people holding public office. We're going to talk a lot more about Pasco in the future because he's running for Attorney General to take Alan Wilson's place. And he's already pledged not to do one of the things that we hate the most about Alan, which is waste untold amounts of South Carolina's time and resources by signing on to purely political federal cases outside of the state instead of focusing on the cases that matter to the average South Carolinian, like fighting corruption and prosecuting violent crimes. So here's the long story short. Alan Wilson appointed David Pasco to be special prosecutor in an ethics case involving the then-speaker of the state house, Bobby Harrell. Less than a year later, Harrell was removed from office and indicted.

Starting point is 00:13:06 He pleaded guilty to six counts of misusing campaign funds and was sentenced to three years of probation. Here's where things got a little nuts. Sled's investigation of Harrell uncovered other dirty work by legislators and Pascoe was like, well, we're obligated to pursue those too. So Pasco asked Alan Wilson for the go-ahead on doing that, because remember, he was a specially appointed prosecutor. Normally, this stuff would fall under Allen's office. It took Alan nine months to give Sled the okay to release their case file to Pascoe, so that Pascoe could determine whether there was enough to prosecute these legislators, nine months. And then when Pascoe and Sled chief, Mark Kiel,

Starting point is 00:13:47 sent the case to the state grand jury, Alan Wilson tried to fire Pascoe. Why? Why? Because Pasco was doing his job. And I guess when Pasco does his job, Alan Wilson's fragile house of cards starts to fall, which is what happens when your friends and allies are shady boots. And you're not enough of a big boy to tell them that the law applies to them to. Anyway, this battle between Alan Wilson and David Pascoe was a very big deal back in the day. And it also involved our friend and yours, Judge Carmen Mullen, whose lax handling of the Satterfield settlement contributed to Ehrlich Murdo. and Corey Fleming's ability to steal $4.3 million from Gloria Satterfield's sons.

Starting point is 00:14:27 Turns out that wasn't the first time she's been lax. The case was dubbed Probate, and we will tell you all about it in the future. For now, just know that David Pascoe was the prosecutor trying to do the right thing, and Alan Wilson hired a powerful law firm to try and stop them. Back to that CSAM data. According to Pascoe's budget request from 2019 to 2022, the state attorney general had closed 385 cases. Of those, 92.5% were not prosecuted. Congresswoman Nancy Mays posted this data on her social media, saying, quote,

Starting point is 00:15:05 South Carolina families deserve answers. Are our children safe? And how many pedophiles is Alan Wilson protecting? And, quote, again, at this point, we're beginning to think someone should check South Carolina Attorney General's Alan Wilson's hard drive. Ooh, which that's a bold statement, but I'm glad she said that, and I'm glad that she has the data to back up what she's saying here. I'm not going to get into all the ways that we both agree with Nancy Mace today because I want to keep focus on the fact that she is putting her power and influence to use by bringing attention to how broken the state's justice system is.

Starting point is 00:15:46 We do hope, though, that the Congresswoman takes a giant step back when it comes to the cruel and unnecessary things that she has said about the trans community. It is dehumanizing and dangerous, and I would urge her to look at the data on who is committing the majority of crimes against women and children because it is definitely not trans people. Anyway, unsurprisingly, Alan Wilson has said that Nancy has the numbers wrong, which no, Nancy doesn't. Nancy actually has the numbers right. Those numbers come from David Pasco, a prosecutor, literally the same vocation as Allen. Except David Pasco, actually, you know, prosecutes cases and isn't out there yammering about Arizona and Texas and whatever the other

Starting point is 00:16:36 states are doing and whatever other states Alan Wilson likes to play footsie with. So we tend to trust David Pascoe. But here is what Allen's office is. is saying. He says that the number 385 represents the number of charges and not the number of cases. And he says that the charges represent only 42 cases and that he actually prosecuted most of them. Which, happy birthday to all of us, because we get to open a present together. Are you ready? When a man burglarizes your home and the police actually put the effort to investigate and charge him. He might face a number of charges, right? Breaking and entering, maybe forcible entry, trespassing, theft. There is a number of charges that could apply to that crime, right? Well,

Starting point is 00:17:25 that's a case for the police. That is one case, however many charges. Let's just say six for fun. But then, when the one case moves over to the prosecutor's office, that becomes six cases. Each charge is assigned to its own case number. And the prosecutors have to to prepare to argue each of those charges. Each charge or case has its own evidence that needs to be presented and argued for guilt to be made, right? Now, let's say the man who broke into your house gets out on bond and then goes and robs a liquor store and shoots the cashier. The police find him and charge him with attempted murder and a host of other charges. Let's say that's one case with seven charges attached to it.

Starting point is 00:18:11 So that adds seven new charges or cases to the prosecutor's workload. This one person now has 13 charges with multiple victims. Prosecutors tend to analyze those charges as a whole to decide their strategy. Do they try to get them to plead to the attempted murder charge then drop the other charge from the burglary case?

Starting point is 00:18:32 Or do they use one case to leverage against the other? That kind of thing. But each charge is consistent. considered a case. Okay, now let's talk about CSAM cases. One pedophile could have 30 charges from one investigation. From our point of view, every single one of those charges counts because they likely involve the abuse of different people and sometimes multiple people.

Starting point is 00:18:59 Think about it. These monsters trade hundreds of videos with each other and those videos typically feature different adults abusing different kids in various numbers. the charges could represent one victim or dozens. David Pasco's point is that Alan Wilson had 385 different ways to make sure pedophiles would be put behind bars, even if the 385 charges represented 42 people, as Alan's office says it does,

Starting point is 00:19:26 but Alan didn't put pedophiles behind bars because 92.5% of the charges were dropped, meaning Alan had the ammunition, but he didn't use it. Instead of blasting these pedophiles, files by throwing the book at them, he was like, give me your wrist, sir, because I'm going to slap it. Okay, now we need to discuss these 42 cases. Let's start with defendant number one. Arrested in 2015. Prosecuted five years later. Five years. Charged with three counts of second degree sexual exploitation of a minor and then pleaded guilty to one count of the lesser charge

Starting point is 00:20:03 of third-degree sexual exploitation of a minor. Sentenced to 10 years. Yay, Alan! Oh, wait, 10 years suspended? After five years of probation with... Oh, my God. The possibility of probation being terminated after two years. So two years of probation after sitting on the case for five years.

Starting point is 00:20:30 Okay, okay, maybe the second case will be better. Defendant number two, arrested in 2016 on two counts of second-degree sexual exploitation of a minor, and, whoa, 30 counts of third-degree sexual exploitation of a minor. Three years later, his case was dismissed by Alan. Huh. I wonder what—oh, geez, he died while waiting to be prosecuted. Well, that's unfortunate, but bottom line, that's one less potential pedophile in the world, so I'm not going to harp on it, except to say,

Starting point is 00:21:04 why is it taking so long to prosecute these cases where people are dying? I thought Alan was like getting grants and things to help. No? All right, let's look at defendant number three. He was arrested in 2017, charged with one count of second-degree sexual exploitation of a minor, and five counts of third-degree sexual exploitation of a minor. He was prosecuted just two years later,

Starting point is 00:21:27 which feels really weird saying just two years, but everything is relative, right? So six charges and he pleaded guilty to one charge of the lesser crime. He was sentenced to five years behind bars. Yes. Wait, no.

Starting point is 00:21:45 That was suspended to two years of probation. So of these three cases, we have a total of 41 charges related to child sexual abuse material. One man died waiting for them to get around to his case and the other two each pleaded guilty. So that's a total of two charges out of 41 being prosecuted

Starting point is 00:22:08 and a total of four years of probation between the two men. Okay, I'm not going to go through all these cases, but let's just say there's a pattern there. And it's a strong pattern, which is why David Pasco called it out and why Nancy Mace is bringing this to the public's attention, which is important. We need to know if the guy who says he's the law and order candidate, the tough on pedophiles guy, the protector of children and women, is, I don't know, exaggerating, lying, just plain delusional.

Starting point is 00:22:43 We needed to know more, so we went to the source, someone who we actually have a long list of issues with, Congresswoman Nancy Mace. You'll hear some of that conversation after a quick break. Td Bank knows that running a small business is a journey, from startup to growing and managing your business. That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide tips and insights on business banking to entrepreneurs. No matter the stage of business you're in, visit td.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with a TD small business banking account manager. Michelle's mother Lisa McDaniel has managed to keep her past buried. You said nobody wants to believe there's a monster in their family. You think she's a monster?

Starting point is 00:23:35 I don't want to, but I don't know how else you describe somebody who does those things to children. Michelle has lived in the shadow of her family's dark past for decades, but now she's ready to bring it into the light. Neither one of those children were suffering because of her. of a disease. Season 6 of Nobody Should Believe Me is out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. So, we have a state attorney general who wants to be governor and wants to be elected on his record. But his record, at least from this side of things, looks dangerously terrible, especially when it comes to pedophiles. Here's Congresswoman.

Starting point is 00:24:23 woman, Nancy Mace, whose district includes Buford County and Charleston on the Attorney General's prosecution rate when it comes to C-SAM cases. We got a tip about it, and we foiled the county and got information back that would blow your mind. 92.5 percent, meaning more than 9 and 10 cases being dropped or dismissed by the Attorney General in just one of 46 counties in South Carolina, is staggering. But what's going on everywhere else as well. And of those, there were 385 cases. Now, every charge has a case number. I'm using the word cases. Alan Wilson would tell you I'm talking about charges. Does it really

Starting point is 00:25:04 matter? If one person is facing six charges and 60 years in jail, Donald Gresh, you shouldn't get one day in jail under Attorney General Alan Wilson's prosecution, which is another case in Charleston County that happened. Donald Gresh Jr. is a Charleston County man who was charged in 2018 with six counts related to child sexual abuse materials he had, including a video and images, which I'm not going to describe to you. He was one of the many cases cited in a May 2025 investigative report from Live 5 News that most of the people being charged in child sex exploitation cases in the low country either have their charges dropped altogether or serve very minimal amounts of time behind bars. Congresswoman Mace pointed out the same pattern in the door chest

Starting point is 00:25:51 Chester County cases. No trials. There were absolutely no trials. There were only two active prison sentences. So other people got suspended, time served, probation, et cetera. If it got pled down to a misdemeanor, I've got to look at the cases of the 20 minutes and they got pled down to a misdemeanor, but if it's a misdemeanor, they're not on the sex offender registry. And the majority of these people walked away, they could be living near schools, they could be working at a child care center, they could be continuing abusing children or sharing pornography of kids, you name it. This is really bad. And the fact that the Attorney General isn't taking responsibility

Starting point is 00:26:33 for it is worse. We often accuse Alan Wilson of fearmongering, which he sure does do. And I want to stress that what the Congresswoman is pointing out here is not that sexual perdation isn't a one-and-done thing. There is a real risk of escalating and repeated criminal behavior. Also, Allen's fearmongering comes from a place of you need me to protect you. We also believe that Allen's fearmongering could even be a sales tactic that boosts gun sales in the state, which his own family profits from. For whatever his intentions are here, Congresswoman Nancy Mace has brought sunlight and actual data,

Starting point is 00:27:16 showing the actual net result of Allen's job performance, at least in Dorchester County. She's not just saying that this is dangerous. She is showing us how it's dangerous. And she's calling for a solution. When I see, you know, these guys out here who act like they're doing something for us and we all know that they're not, I just, I roll my eyes, I roll up my sleeves, and I get to work because the system is broken. And if it's this broken in one county, it's probably broken like this in every county, and we've got to fix it. We've got to come together, expose it, shine a light on it, and fix it. Congresswoman Mace also made it clear that this is a problem

Starting point is 00:27:56 we all need to work on together. We all own the responsibility of calling it out and demanding change. Yeah, protecting kids isn't left or right. It is nonpartisan. It's something that we should all willingly do. And when we see children not being protected and rather predators being protected, we've got to stand up and have our voices heard and demand better from our elected officials because this is crazy. When we get back from celebrating the premiere of Murdoch Death in the Family on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus and the premiere of our official companion podcast next week, also on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus and wherever you get your podcasts, we will begin diving in much deeper with this

Starting point is 00:28:46 disturbing data statewide because enough is enough. Today, we have to update y'all on the Squire's Gate Gate story from last week. On September 28th, an off-duty Buford County Sheriff's Deputy was caught on video holding four boys between the ages of 13 and 19 at gunpoint. This story of crime and corruption happened literally down the street from where I live, so I obviously felt like we had to cover it. And also, it was really bad and not unique to Hilton Head, unfortunately. Here is a clip to remind you all. Bro, what the ground? Come here. Come here. Yeah, you see. Get down.

Starting point is 00:29:28 Oh, you're on the ground. What the fuck? Get on the ground. Hey, sir, can you call the cops, please. Hey, call the police. I am the police. What are you doing? The video was terrifying. Showing an understanding. hinged and allegedly intoxicated, again, off-duty deputy, waving his service weapon around and forcing kids to get on their knees in the middle of the street. The deranged deputy in the video was identified by multiple sources early last week as Master

Starting point is 00:30:00 Sergeant Billy Squires, a supervisor of the Violent Crimes Task Force and over the agency's alcohol beverage control, which is extremely ironic. But the sheriff's office withheld Billy's identity during the height of the backlash to these videos, and therefore they protected him from public scrutiny for five whole days when they shouldn't have. Withholding his name also kept people from making any association between him in any prior bad behavior they might know about. The video went viral for a variety of reasons. It showed that all races can be hurt by reckless policing.

Starting point is 00:30:41 as two of the boys in the video were white, one was Hispanic, and one was black. It showed a deputy who had absolutely lost the plot with his unchecked power and out-of-control emotions. No matter what happened before the video, Billy Squires should have been fired immediately for displaying behavior that endangers the community. He should have been immediately fired and charged. And I know Hilton Head Cairns on Facebook, that it, quote-unquote, doesn't work like that because I know South Carolina police have a protocol when they are involved in incidents that require investigating, and that protocol is to call

Starting point is 00:31:23 sled because they can't investigate their own. However, public safety should always override protocol. Sheriff's Office deputies on scene should have immediately watched the video, deem squires as a threat to the community, like they do after someone gets a DUI, charged him with something simple, like pointing and presenting, and then thrown him in jail while Slead investigated the rest. The incident would not have gotten the international attention that it did, had the Beaufort County Sheriff's Office done that. Instead, they waited five days to take action,

Starting point is 00:31:59 which they announced in a press conference, as if to fool us into thinking that they had done the right thing all along. We are going to dissect that press conference sit in everything that happened in a minute. But first, a little more background on this incident. For the small and loud crowd who demanded to know what the juveniles did for the deputy to act like that, I want to remind y'all that we played videos that were taken before the gun-pointing incident.

Starting point is 00:32:25 One of the videos showed a heavy set man in a green shirt that we're going to call BS riding a four-wheeler on a public road with what looks like an open beer in his cup holder. BS allegedly harassed the middle school boys repeatedly asking them where they lived and told them that they could not be on that street. So this road is owned by the state of South Carolina, meaning Mr. BS had no right to say that, especially when it appeared that he was breaking the law himself. From what sources have told us and what's been reported,

Starting point is 00:32:55 it appears that BS got angry when the boys didn't listen to him and when they questioned his authority. Then, according to sources, BS got Billy Squires involved, and Billy pulled up in his taxpayer-owned pickup truck, possibly drunk, and continued to question the boys before threatening to arrest them. The boys, knowing their rights, brushed Billy off and brushed off BS as well. They were basically like, whatever, you crazy old drunks. So essentially from what we can gather, this was all a reaction to insubordination.

Starting point is 00:33:27 Stick a pin in that word. Grown men who were used to people just automatically giving them immediate unearned respect got angry when a couple of neighborhood boys weren't listening to them. At some point, Squires and his punk neighbors accused the kids of waving a gun, but there is no evidence of the kids having a gun on them. Also, as we reported last week, another video showed two of Squire's neighbors, BS and an older man with a white beard that we will call Bad Santa, aggressively grabbing and detaining the boys and essentially going along with Squire's absurd orders.

Starting point is 00:33:59 Bad Santa didn't even seem to know why he was doing what he was doing. So why weren't those guys arrested on the scene? In episode 118, we urged our listeners last week to make noise about this incident and to demand accountability from the sheriff's office. Just one day after that episode was released, which inevitably and definitely escalated the public outrage toward the sheriff's office, Fever County Sheriff P.J. Tanner finally called a press conference on Friday to announce essentially, that they fired Billy Squires and that the criminal investigation in the case was being handled by the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division. Important context here is that Liz has known Sheriff Tanner

Starting point is 00:34:46 for 22 years, and she even worked for him for a year. Sheriff Tanner is my sheriff. I have covered him for almost 10 years now, and until this point, I have publicly supported him as he always seemed open to criticism and improvement. Plus, honestly, for a sheriff in South Carolina, he always seemed like one of the better ones. We are going harder on Tanner here and dissecting his press conference because we know that he will get the message and we hope that he does something about it. Also, we know other law enforcement leaders are listening to us and we hope that they can learn from this too. And I'm sure there's going to be questions. surrounding the date of Sunday, the 28th of September, and around 6.45 p.m.,

Starting point is 00:35:38 and the community is Squire's Gate Community on Hilton Head Island, South Carolina. As a result of a handful of calls, some of them being a fight call in progress, some of the calls for service being shots fired calls, there were also calls of a man with the gun. Deputies were responding to that community, really not knowing what they would find when they got there. But when they did arrive, they did find an off-duty deputy, William Squires, he's a master sergeant or was a master sergeant, would the sheriff's office. They found him in the community, dressed in some of his issued equipment. That would be a vest that had sheriff on it, a weapon, and his ID, his badge, and I believe he had a radio in his possession

Starting point is 00:36:29 as well. They also encountered several juvenile boys that were in that community. So, you know, for a few minutes after 645, it took those deputies responding to that community. It took them a little while to try to figure out what exactly was going on based on how the radio calls were coming in for a variety of different things. Through that process of trying to determine, you know, what was actually happening, our command duty, we have a command duty officer on call every day, and that's done through rotation.

Starting point is 00:37:09 And this particular day, Sunday to 28, that command duty officer was Lieutenant Craig Washington. Okay, let's break there. Sheriff PJ Tanner, who has been sheriff for decades, and is a very skilled politician, is saying things that make the public feel better about a bad situation without addressing the important points that make them look worse. This press conference is a good reminder to always listen carefully to what your local officials are saying. Consider this a lesson in decoding good old boy tactics. Right off the back,

Starting point is 00:37:41 Sheriff PJ Tanner is muddying the waters, which is straight out of the good old boy playbook. When the full truth isn't on your side, throw in some extra information to make it sound like this incident was not as egregious as it actually was. And when you say the words, use the tone of a grandpa talking about the war. We have also heard that there were reports of a man with a gun in the Squire's Gate neighborhood on the evening of September 28th. And we have requested all 911 calls, calls to service for that day, and incident reports. But the sheriff's office denied our request due to Sled's open investigation. So we can't fact-check him now when he said there were shots fired reports. But wait a minute. The 911 calls happened after Deputy Squires

Starting point is 00:38:24 was caught on video holding teenagers at gunpoint. So the calls really don't matter when we're talking about what happens to Squires. At this point, Sheriff Tanner should have mentioned at the very least whether or not they had found a weapon on the kids or if there was any evidence of them having a weapon. It was actually cruel of him not to clarify what actually started this and that obscurity helps his department and hurts the kids involved. So, Craig Washington, who is supervisor of the school resource officers, was the command staff member on duty that evening, who was ultimately told to take Squire's badge away.

Starting point is 00:38:58 But listen to Tanner's reasoning as to why he did that. Again, this is a good lesson in decoding good old boy talk. He called me about five times, giving me updates on the information. One of the calls towards the end of our conversations that evening was that there were some concerns about the community or from the community that the off-duty officer was under the influence. So based on those concerns, I gave Craig Washington a direct order to take William Squires, also known as Billy, take him to the Hilton Head office on Hilton Head. This would have been somewhere around the 9-930 time frame.

Starting point is 00:39:45 take him to the office and have a data master test, which is also referred to as a breathalyzer test done on him because of the concerns not only of Craig Washington on the scene, but other members that were there, because I wanted to have a breath alcohol content on that particular off-duty officer at that time. That authority officer refused to consent to a breathalyzer test, and Craig Washington was ordered to collect his credentials, his weapons, and he was suspended without pay at that point. That is referenced in what we know in paramilitary structure in the military, that's insubordination, and we do not tolerate insubordination. Did you hear that? Sheriff P.J. Tanner does not tolerate insubordination, y'all. See, good old boys can be really clear when they want to be. Ultimately, it was just insubordination that got Squire's badge revoked,

Starting point is 00:40:58 refusing a breathalyzer when he was on video driving earlier that day, by the way. What happens to literally anyone else who is suspected by the police of driving under the influence and they refuse a breathalyzer, they go straight to jail, but not Squires. Sheriff Tanner wants a pat on the back for his command officer revoking Squire's badge that evening, but after hearing his explanation as to why they did that, it's clear that these good old boys still aren't getting it. This whole situation allegedly started when a power-hungry deputy and his loser friends got mad that some neighborhood kids weren't listening to them, when they told them, the lie that they couldn't walk on a public street.

Starting point is 00:41:43 It sounds like it started with insubordination, and a deputy who did not have the emotional intelligence to handle it. Maybe, just maybe, Sheriff Tanner should try to pretend to focus a little more on the fact that a kid could have been killed by his reckless deputy instead of insubordination. But go on, Sir Sheriff Tanner, who will not tolerate insubordination, back to the press conference, Sheriff Tanner addressed the internal affairs investigation and why it's important, yet still missing the point.

Starting point is 00:42:26 I know there's been a lot of questions. I know there's been a lot of comments from different folks, either through phone calls or emails or different postings about the importance or questioning the importance of an internal affairs investigation. In this particular case, it's our responsibility to determine what policies have been violated that are required to be followed by officers either on duty or off duty, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Because at the end of the day, what we do is we have to report our findings,

Starting point is 00:43:07 to the Criminal Justice Academy in Columbia. The Criminal Justice Academy in South Carolina retain and own your certification. An officer certification does not belong to them but belongs to the state of South Carolina and it's through the South Carolina Criminal Justice Academy where all law enforcement officers in the state of South Carolina are certified.

Starting point is 00:43:28 So that certification is property of South Carolina. It's our responsibility to do a thorough investigation for policy violations. We report our findings to the Criminal Justice Academy, and if need be, we ask for revocation of that certification. In this particular case, that was done this morning at 9 o'clock. We thoroughly investigated the case. There's not a whole lot left on the internal affairs side. Lieutenant Drayson, he did a champion's job of coming in. early Monday morning and starting on this knowing that we needed to unravel

Starting point is 00:44:12 everything in a timely fashion he was able to do that thus gives my chief deputy Mike Hatfield the opportunity this morning at nine o'clock to continue to paperwork submittal to the Academy William Squires was brought in this morning at nine and his his classification now he's terminated from the Beaufort County Sheriff's Office for a variety of policy by So he is no longer an employee of the sheriff's office. Oh, congratulations, sir, Sheriff Tanner, who doesn't tolerate insubordination. Your tax-funded employees did the bare minimum to investigate squires,

Starting point is 00:44:52 and it still took them five days to fire squires in an investigation that a 10-year-old could complete in a few hours. They went to work on a Monday and checks notes did their jobs. Slowly, might I add. The good old boys want the public to believe that slow equals thorough, but it doesn't. Deputies are supposed to quickly determine whether someone is a threat to the community. This five-day investigation shows that BCSO is really, really bad at that, especially when the threat is one of their own.

Starting point is 00:45:21 Sheriff Tanner explained that SLED was assigned to investigate any potential criminal charges related to the Squire's Gate incident due to his department's conflict of interest. He said that Sledd's investigation is Sledd's investigation, and he refused to answer questions about it. On Tuesday, we learned that SLED appears to be done with its initial investigation and has referred the case for review by the Regional Public Integrity Unit. Solicitor David Pascoe will be making a decision on whether charges will be filed in this case. We're expecting to hear something today, and we will update y'all on social media. Anyway, Tanner then opened the Florida questions from the hand-picked media that they chose to invite. Needless to say, Mandy and I were not on that list, which is actually a violation of our. our constitutional rights. But don't worry, we were still able to sneak our questions in through

Starting point is 00:46:10 other reporters. The first question the media had for him was the biggest question that all of social media had been asking. There are so many rumors that the kids had a gun, which is what started the whole thing. Tanner, of course, like we said, sticking to the good old boy playbook that suits him, gave a vague answer and said that that is forced sled to answer. Now, I've been covering Sheriff Tanner for almost 22 years, and Mandy has been covering him for about 10. 10 years and I would be willing to bet my house that if a gun was discovered on those kids or if the sheriff's office had any proof of those kids having something that resembled a weapon, they would have shared that by now because it would make them look better.

Starting point is 00:46:49 It would not excuse Squire's behavior, obviously, but it would at least apply a sense of understanding to the situation. Tanner could have easily said no weapon was found in our investigation, but that doesn't help him. So again, he muddies the waters. At the press conference, a reporter asked Tanner a really good question, and it wasn't one of ours. Why wait five days to announce the deputy's name? Tanner's response was telling. Well, you know, in my experience doing internal affairs investigations, and then, of course, the severity of this as it was unfolding, you know, we have several concerns.

Starting point is 00:47:28 One, of course, the safety of the community. That's number one. Squiresgate community did not need to be subjected to undue treatment by anyone. So, you know, we wanted to protect the community, even though if you watch the video, you can kind of figure out where it's at, but you're doing that on your own. If you release that information, you're going to do it, and it's not coming from us. The officer's name is really not relevant at that point. We know who the officer is, but it's the actions. of that officer that we're investigating. It's what led up to what happened during that event

Starting point is 00:48:08 and where we stand today. When we interview people that are potentially witnesses, we want to interview people that are witnesses to the event, not witnesses because they either know the officer, have a, you know, Billy Squire's worked for the sheriff's office for, again, 19 years. There are a lot of people in the community that he's arrested and criminally charged. So we won't fact.

Starting point is 00:48:37 We don't want opinion. So when you put too much information out there, we get bombarded by those that either have like him and want to say how great he is. Don't like him at all. Don't have any knowledge or any information as to anything that happened on that particular evening. So we kind of like to go about our investigation with it not be. not being, you know, identified to one person. I think it's the appropriate time now because, you know, this morning at 9 o'clock, his employment here at Sheriff's Office was terminated.

Starting point is 00:49:11 He is a private citizen within Buford County, South Carolina. But he is the subject matter of this internal affairs investigation. Remember, the good old boys muddied the water to make it look deep. This is yet another example. Tanner's response was completely elizabeth. When you stop and think about it, but it was full of words to full voters like community safety, so it went over a lot of the heads in the room. At the very least, the public deserved to know the name of the deputy being investigated for pointing a weapon at children before he was fired. They deserve to know his name on Sunday.

Starting point is 00:49:52 We stand by that, and Tanner's twisted words tell me that he can't really defend that decision either. He said that he was concerned about the safety of the Squiresgate community, which is why he kept Squire's name out of it. And by the way, it seems to be a coincidence that Squires lives on Squiresgate Road, which I know is absurd. But guys, here's the thing. The Sheriff's Office literally identified the Squiresgate community as the neighborhood where this incident took place in a press release on Monday. So let me get this straight, Sheriff Tanner. You are pretending to protect the community. While you already identified the exact location

Starting point is 00:50:37 of where this occurred, while not identifying the primary suspect, who is a police officer. Okay, got it. Mind you. The Beaufort County Sheriff's Office has thrown hundreds of people in jail immediately for silly charges, like walking on a highway,

Starting point is 00:50:57 public intoxication, trespassing, marijuana possession, bad checks, I could go on and on and on. Sheriff Tanner surely believes that those people deserve to be publicly humiliated with their mugshots, addresses, and charges posted online for the whole world to see before an investigation about them as complete. But Billy Squires didn't deserve that because, checking notes, The sheriff wanted to protect his neighborhood, that he already named in a press release? Give me a break. Saying that the officer's name is not relevant is absurd. Let's just call this like it is.

Starting point is 00:51:41 Billy Squires got the gentleman's treatment from the sheriff's office. The sheriff's office withheld his name from the public during the height of the scandal because Sheriff Tanner cared more about protecting Billy and and his friends than he cared about public safety. They gave him the privilege of conducting a full investigation before releasing his name to the public, a privilege that very few defendants charged by the sheriff's office get.

Starting point is 00:52:08 And if Tanner is saying that the names of defendants are not relevant until a full investigation is complete, not just when there is enough probable cause for an arrest, then the thousands of people whose mugshots have been plastered, plastered on the Beaufort County Sheriff's Office website before their charges were dropped, they would like to have a word, sir. Next, Tanner revealed the results of the Sheriff's Office's Internal Investigation, and it is almost comical if it wasn't so scary.

Starting point is 00:52:40 How many policies this man violated? Well, I'll go through the policy violations. You've got, you know, code of conduct, failure to obey a lawful order by refusing to submit to the data, Conducting himself in an unprofessional manner that did not project and support public respect and cooperation. Being under the influence of alcohol in a public place with his judgment impaired leading to actions which brought discredit and ill repute upon the sheriff's office, attempting or unlawfully arresting regarding a neighborhood dispute where there was no clear threat of bodily injury or death. death. Cota ethics failing to deal with the community in a manner that instills respect for law enforcement and inspires confidence and trust. Off-duty firearms policy violation, consuming alcohol

Starting point is 00:53:34 at beverages while armed in an off-duty capacity and then representing this firearm for an unlawful purpose which was outside of compliance with the Sheriff's Office use of force policy. Use of force, using force, a presentation of a firearm, soft hand, and Indianham techniques against subjects without reasonable suspicion or probable cause, arrest and detention policy, taking lawful action by attempting to arrest, detain, juveniles involving a neighborhood dispute where he resides without articulable independent justification known by him at the time, failing to conduct, failing to contact the on-duty supervisor of the call and reassuring himself from a law or recusing himself from a law enforcement action.

Starting point is 00:54:32 Communications policy, failing to advise the communications center, which is our dispatch center, either by phone or radio of what the event was, and body-worn camera policy. Once he put on that vest and started acting in the capacity as an on-duty, officer, then he's required to have his body camera on. He did not. He, the body camera was on the vest, but it was not activated. And, and that's, I mean, that's the list of policy violations. That is 11 policies. It should not have taken five days to fire him, but it's not surprising when you hear Sheriff Tanner talking about his initial reaction to the video. You know, I've been in this business a long time and I've seen a lot of things that people shouldn't see.

Starting point is 00:55:25 And, you know, not having any of the video available to me on Sunday evening, you know, when I was first called a little after eight, I was making decisions based on information that was flowing. And this was a fluid scenario at the time. So based on the information that I got, I felt around a nine, nine o'clock hour, based on, on concerns, not only of knowing that he was off duty and knowing that there was, he was suspected of consuming alcohol, and he was armed, and he was wearing one of our, of course, tactical best. You know, it was time to, all right, let's find out what his blood alcohol level is. And then when he refused to do that, then that's insubordination, that's not tolerated,

Starting point is 00:56:16 and then we move forward from there. I saw a video that I think has been streamed throughout the media, throughout Facebook and all the other things. I saw that for the first time about 5 o'clock Monday morning, and I think that came out initially on Next Door, and it was provided to me because I'm not a social media follower, so to speak. You have to send it to me if you want me to see it, and then sometimes I can't figure out how to even open it. But anyway, I saw it for the first time, and honestly, I was appalled about what I saw, knowing the officer, not really understanding all the circumstances of what led up to that scenario. And there's always three sides to every story. I mean, throughout my career, I don't put stock in either side until I've heard all three sides,

Starting point is 00:57:06 because there's the truth, there's a lie, and somewhere in the middle, you'll find fact. And we're fact finders. So looking at that video, it was appalling to look at. And I can also see how the average citizen sees that video and just goes into shock as to what they see. What a takeaway. So, first of all, notice how Tanner reflected on the incident again and again. He seemed to be most mad about Squires refusing a breathalyzer. That's insubordination, and that is not tolerated, he said, about refusing that

Starting point is 00:57:42 breathalizer. Shouldn't it be I saw a video of one of my off-duty deputies who was allegedly drunk pointing his weapon at children and that's not tolerated? And then Tanner explained why it took him roughly 11 hours to see the video because he isn't a social media follower. So I guess worst of the host shouldn't think that no video was shown to any of the deputies on Sunday night. And by the way, that is the old weaponized incompetence. another pillar of the elderly good old boy playbook. It is 2025, and it is no longer endearing to hear men in crucial leadership positions boast about how they aren't a social media follower.

Starting point is 00:58:25 Being admittedly unable to gauge immediate public outrage surrounding an incident involving your deputy should be embarrassing for PJ Tanner to admit. But he clings to that good old boy playbook because it's worked for him so far. And speaking of the sheriff's good old boy incompetence bursting through and his political correctness during this press conference. You know, what message I give the community? Beaufort County Sheriff's Office is a quality law enforcement agency. We have men and women here that are vested in the community, and they are part of the

Starting point is 00:59:01 community, and their sole role in this job is to provide public safety to any and all as fairly and as professionally as we possibly can. It. Don't let this incident shed a bad light on the men and women that serve you daily. We've had a lot of emails. We've had a lot of very vulgar, unnecessary phone calls that our communication center has had to field our front desk and a number of emails that have come in through our web page and things like that.

Starting point is 00:59:37 Ninety-nine percent of them are from out of state. We understand what's happening. And so we get it. We see where this is coming from. And it's not uncommon for a Republican sheriff, for Republican anyone in the United States to get that kind of drama. So, but you know what? It doesn't have an impact on us. Things that we expect things.

Starting point is 00:59:59 We deal with it. We move forward. Well, this is the point where Sheriff P.J. Tanner lost a lot of people. Republicans and Democrats even aligned forces here, which is a tough. thing to do these days. Tanner being a Republican has nothing to do with the backlash that he received for this incident, and the fact that he said that was insulting to every citizen who voiced their concerns. Now is not the time to play the Republican victim's sheriff card while simultaneously boasting about how good your department is. And the thing is, P.J. is right.

Starting point is 01:00:37 there are a lot of great men and women working for the sheriff's office, and Squire's actions should not overshadow their dedication to service. But the way to do that is to be radically transparent, putting the public needs ahead of the agency's needs. It is PJ's job to make sure that the public sees that, and the only way to make the public see how great your department is is by taking immediate action when one of your deputies does something dangerous and reckless. Videos like Squiresgate go viral because they elicit outrage.

Starting point is 01:01:16 People wouldn't be outraged by this incident if the sheriff's office fired and charged Squires immediately. But people shared the video thousands of times because they wanted to make sure that the incident wouldn't be covered up by the good old boys. At the end of the press conference, politically incorrect PJ Tanner made his final good old boy appearance when he was asked if the kids had been offered any sort of trauma treatment, since, you know, they were victims of a violent crime at the hands of a deputy. Here is his response. Is the sheriff's office or the solicitor's office working with the family for trauma for the children who have a gun planted at them? Is there any kind of mental help that you're often, the families and the boys? I can say no from us. I don't know the answer to that from SLED.

Starting point is 01:02:12 We have reached out for interviews, and we have had no interviews with family members. They have, their desire is not to talk to us. Have you offered that help? We haven't got a word in edgewise. I mean, Adam Drason, the lieutenant did the IA, he tried to set up opportunities to meet and speak with the family members, and there's been no acceptance of that. And I don't know at this point if SLED's been successful with that or not. Questions? Is that it? Okay. Well, thank y'all.

Starting point is 01:02:56 This felt a little pointed, like the families of the boys did something wrong. We asked Alexis Brianna, one of the boys' aunts, who originally posted the viral video last week, about this. She said, quote, the only reason that the families and the boys weren't speaking is because they are pursuing legal action and didn't want to do so without an attorney present. That makes sense. The sheriff's office has done nothing to earn their trust. Again, sources say that one of the boys was detained after. after on-duty Beaufort County deputies arrived on the scene. As we were finishing up this episode, WSAV published two more videos from the Squire's Gate

Starting point is 01:03:35 Gate incident, and somehow, it made it all worse. The video showed Squires still in his deputy costume, detaining one of the children by tying his hands behind the boy's back after Squires pointed his weapon at him while they waited for police to arrive. To be clear, since, like we said, race does matter in these incidents, Squires detained the Hispanic boy, we'll call him Joe, who charged at Squires during the incident to protect his friend. In the next video, the sheriff's office arrived on scene in another deputy grabbed Joe like he was under arrest. He escorted the 14-year-old kid to a deputy vehicle where he placed him in the back of the seat with his hands behind his back. According to multiple sources, deputies on scene were very close to arresting and charging Joe.

Starting point is 01:04:31 A family member told me that it was only after more details began to emerge, and when Squires refused the breathalyzer and the videos were shown, that is when they finally released him. So, it turns out, from where we stand, insubordination started all of this and ended it. If Squires didn't refuse a breathalyzer, who knows what additional trauma those boys would have endured. It's interesting that Tanner did not mention the mistakes that were made by his other deputies on scene. That is a huge part of the problem. It's like when Ory County Police only fired Officer Damon Viscovy for obstructing justice in the Spivey investigation, only actor Beth Braden caught him obstructing justice. in one of their videos that they should have looked at before.

Starting point is 01:05:25 We just want police to do their jobs when the cameras aren't rolling and their backs aren't against a wall. It should not take this much effort to make sure that a deputy is held to account. Tanner said in the press conference that he does not want the incident to erode public trust in the sheriff's office.

Starting point is 01:05:47 But that damage is already done. We need law enforcement agencies to hold their own accountable, even when we aren't looking. Men like Squires aren't created in a vacuum. They get more reckless every time they get away with something. Men who have been held accountable by their superiors do not act like Squires acted, ever. Tanner should have reviewed all of the actions of his deputies related to this incident. before the press conference, and he should have admitted to the mistakes that were made. He could have made this a teaching lesson for cops who arrive on scene, and that lesson is

Starting point is 01:06:30 to slow down and listen to people, specifically listen to kids who say that they have a video of what happened. Too often, we have seen deputies barge into scenes and immediately side with the person who looks the most like them without taking a second to look at the evidence. And if Sheriff Tanner really wants the public to trust him right now, especially the growing number of Hilton Head people, who want the island to get its own police force, well, he better hope that Sled and the solicitor's office will be charging multiple men in this incident, not just squires.

Starting point is 01:07:09 And he should hold another press conference to explain what they are doing at the sheriff's office to prevent another incident like this from happening. If there is one thing to take away from this, beyond the bad acts and the bad public accountability, it is that the community work together and join forces to pressure Sheriff Tanner into acting. We can do really big things

Starting point is 01:07:35 when we all raise our voices and demand action. Remember that if you're ever hesitating to weigh in on a problem that affects people's safety and their ability to live freely and thrive. Saying something is always worth it. And, with our Hulu show premiering next week, the light that we shine on corruption will only get brighter. So, the good old boys on the other side of this investigation best behave.

Starting point is 01:08:04 The whole world will be watching. Next week, we're taking a break from true sunlight, but we have something very special to share in its place. Until then, stay tuned, stay pesky. and stay in the sunlight. True Sunlight is a Lunar Shark production created by me, Mandy Matney, co-hosted and reported by journalist Liz Farrell. Research support provided by Beth Braden.

Starting point is 01:08:44 Audio production support provided by Jamie Hoffman, File Management provided by Kate Thomas. Learn more about our mission and membership at LunaSharkMedia.com. Interruptions provided by Luna and Joe Pesky.

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