Murdaugh Murders Podcast - TSP #124 - Weaponizing the $ystem: Signs, Smears, and Invisible Leashes

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

Investigative journalist ⁠Liz Farrell⁠ and producer David Moses examine a disturbing new chapter in the ongoing saga surrounding “Pastor” JP Miller and the Horry County Police Department. What began as a protest seeking Justice for Mica has spiraled into a maze of legal complaints, retaliatory tactics, and baffling law-enforcement decisions—and now the arrest of protester Sandra Caron for writing on a $50 sign JP allegedly created to antagonize her. (29:00) Then we’re diving into attorney Jonny McCoy’s powerful press conference on behalf of former HCPD employees Mikayla Moscov and Kelsey Manemeit, who allege retaliation and misconduct inside the department. Shocker… today we’re talking about Good Ole Boy systems protecting powerful men while punishing those who speak out.  So much to cover, so let’s dive in! 🥽🦈 Leave A Review for Hulu's Original Series!⁠“Murdaugh: Death in the Family” on IMDB⁠ ⭐⁠“Murdaugh: Death in the Family” on Rotten Tomatoes⁠ 🍿Episode References Henri Caron’s Fundraiser to Help Secure Peace and Safety from Harassment💲 “'You next. Justice for Mica': Woman arrested for allegedly vandalizing JP Miller's sign” - WPDE, Nov 18, 2025 📰 Jonny McCoy’s Press Conference - Nov 13, 2025 🎞️ “Family of Sonya Massey, killed by police in her home, receive $10m settlement” - The Guardian, Feb 12, 2025 📰 “Police stage ‘chilling’ raid on Marion County newspaper, seizing computers, records and cellphones” - Kansas Reflector, Aug 11, 2023 📰 Stay Tuned, Stay Pesky and Stay in the Sunlight...☀️ Learn more about Premium Membership at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠lunashark.supercast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get bonus episodes like our Premium Dives, Corruption Watchlist, Girl Talk, and Soundbites that help you Stay Pesky and Stay in the Sunlight ⁠Support Our Show, Sponsors and Mission: https://lunasharkmedia.com/support/⁠ ⁠Quince⁠ - ⁠Hungry Root⁠ - ⁠Bombas⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://amzn.to/4cJ0eVn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ *** ALERT: If you ever notice audio errors in the pod, email ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and we'll send fun merch to the first listener that finds something that needs to be adjusted! *** For current & accurate updates: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠lunashark.supercast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram.com/mandy_matney⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   |   ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram.com/elizfarrell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠bsky.app/profile/mandy-matney.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠bsky.app/profile/elizfarrell.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TrueSunlight.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠facebook.com/TrueSunlightPodcast/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram.com/TrueSunlightPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠youtube.com/@LunaSharkMedia⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠tiktok.com/@lunasharkmedia Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I don't know how good old boys come up with the terrible ideas they have to solve the problems that they created in the first place by being good old boys. But I think I know where the worst of the worst brainstorming is happening, at least in South Carolina, deep inside the Ory County Police Department. My name is Liz Farrell. This is True Sunlight, a podcast exposing crime and corruption, previously known as the Murdoch Murders podcast, which was the inspiration for Murdoch Death in the Family and the Murdochurch. And the Murdochuk Death in the Family official podcast, both now streaming on Hulu, Hulu on Disney Plus, and wherever you listen to podcasts. True Sunlight is a Luna Shark production created by journalist Mandy Matney. Mandy has taken this week to help someone who is very important to her and going through something very difficult. I'm sending a lot of love in that direction and ask that you guys do as well.

I know that they will feel that energy coming their way. Before we get started, I hope all of you watched and enjoyed the final episode of Murdoch Death in the Family and listened to and or watched the official companion podcast for episode 8 with Jason Clark, whose performances, Ellick, was extraordinary. If you love the show as much as we did, tell your friends who are bingers because now they can watch all the episodes in one sitting. Hey, y'all, David here, and first, thank you to everyone in our lives, sending good vibes and well wishes to Mandy. If you know, then you know, and if you don't, just be aware it's been a challenging time. I wish it were under better circumstances, but second, thank you to Mandy and Liz for letting me join today's recording as myself.

And if y'all want more David as David, let us know. I am so excited to meet everyone attending Luna Sharks' Murdoch era finale in Charleston. Over the last four years, Lunas Shark presented a number of events to welcome our premium members. In 2023, we welcomed so many to Mandy's book launch events and our Cups Up to the Holidays Party. In 2024, we hosted the Cups Up at Coco's Beach Bash, and now in 2025 we're honoring creators, cast, and crew of Murdoch Death and the Family, and our premium members with our Murdoch-era finale. Don't worry if we filled up before you could RSVP. We're going to be traveling a lot in 26 and hope to see you at the next one.

And while our events tend to be entertaining, they stand for so much more. more. A representation of your belief in our mission to expose the truth wherever it leads, give voice to victims, and get the story straight. And it's a little give back to the community that has supported us over the years. Your support goes far beyond the financial contribution, though we're deeply grateful for that too. What really moves us is how you've shown up, not just with your wallets, but with your hearts and by heeding our calls to action. Together, we've sent evil-doers to, kept them in, or returned them to prison where they belong. We've given strength to victims in the darkest of times and raised hope for all those fighting

challenges of their own. Our kind of active journalism is designed to create positive change in our world and our communities. And if you've been there at our events year after year bringing energy, enthusiasm, and genuine and care, you know that it fuels everything we do. I'm looking at you, Tina J, Tammy D., Jeff H, Stephanie T, Grace F, and all the others. Mandy Liz and our entire team pour their souls into building this community. And knowing you're standing beside them, believing in our vision, championing our work, lifting us up during the challenging times, well, that means everything. you've given us the emotional support and encouragement that keeps this dream alive,

that we can be better as a community, as a society, as public agencies, or as public officials. And that goes for every listener, not just members of Lunashark Premium. So from all of us, but especially from Mandy and me, thank you. Thank you for believing in us. Thank you for standing with us. and for being a part of this amazing journey, we could not do this without you. I really hate to start off today's show

in a full fit of anger and annoyance, but, quote, Pastor John Paul Miller makes it really, really hard. In other words, I have to tell you guys yet another story about this man and the Ory County Police Department and a protester. And it's in lung one of the stupidest things that I will ever have said out loud. First, I'll tell you what my two takeaways are here.

One is that Ori County police officers wear invisible leashes that are being held by the absolute wrong people. Two, is that J.P.'s chief talent appears to be using the law as a tool in his bully bag, knowing full well that he will automatically be given the higher standing in any complaint involving him and knowing that there's nothing, at least so far, that will stop him from engaging in his. never-ending antics. We have stacks of police reports at this point from before and after Micah Francis' death that tell us a story. And this is, in our opinion, about a man who knows

how to create a narrative, manufacture a paper trial in support of that narrative, and relentlessly bait his target to the point of defeat. Again, we only know this is been in the first place because of the allegations of coercive control and narcissistic abuse that led up to his wife, Micah's alleged and suspiciously bizarre suicide in April 2024. So, the latest story. It involves a justice for mica protester named Sandra Karen, who is 48 years old. Quick recap there. JP has been on a mission since the very beginning to infringe upon protesters' rights

to pick it outside his churches, calling for justice. To that end, he has used law enforcement as his own personal security agency, sicking them like dogs on the protesters whenever possible. He has allegedly deployed his own church member army to harass the protesters to include spraying them with water, and he has used the court system to bully them into stopping by making outlandish, reckless, inaccurate, and yet still very vague allegations in small claims court, acting as his own fool of an attorney. All of it has failed spectacularly while wasting taxpayer resources, of course. Instead of just quietly accepting protesters' right to demonstrate,

He seems to have made his whole personality, them, because who is Tom without Jerry? Who is Wiley Coyote without the Roadrunner? Who is J.P. Miller if he's not feeling prosecuted by his own actions? Just for fun. Let's revisit an oldie-ba-goody from January 5th, 2025, when a small group of protesters stood outside the gym where J.P. was holding church services. The protesters generally hold signs at these protests and intermittently chant justice for Micah. And I want to warn you, Pastor JP, Pastor JP, uses the N-word here. This is

who he is, and in our opinion, it seems likely he was making up the allegation involving that word. We have edited this call-down for length. Now, my mom, what's at this emergency? X-Gim, the X-Gim, I think it's George Bishop Parkway, X-Gim. And the owner here asked to call you guys to come out and stop these protesters on private property. And they're screaming obscenities and stuff about murder and saying that's the black people that are here. Okay. Tell me exactly what happened.

They're out here harassing, like, they are harassing us. They're getting in our face. They're videotaping us. They're following us, screaming things like they want to fight. It's just horrible. It's horrible. And there's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight of them. Okay, and all this has just been verbal at this time, nothing physical?

Well, I saw them tap two of the cars that were leaving, but the cars already pulled out. You'll see, believe me, you'll see. It's amazing. When you get here, you won't even believe it. There's nine of them. All right, and they were also yelling at you as well, or is it? Oh, yeah. You don't know, yelling, me and workers and people that are leaving the gym.

or any weapons involved I don't know they're carrying they have a bunch of things in their hands they have posters phones cameras sticks tripods okay

all right are you able to give me descriptions of any of them like yeah I mean there's a male they're blonde there's all let's see one two three four

there's all of them are blonde I'm not sorry all of them are female except for one man the rest of females are kind of heavy set I don't think they're wearing any makeup Okay, and are they all white, black, Asian, Spanish?

White. They're all white. There's two guys, two guys, seven females. Well, do you remember what any of them were wearing? Yep, I can see. There's a blonde with a white sweater. There's a blonde with a black sweater. There's a girl with the hat.

I know. I mean, you can't miss it. something. Okay. Are you able to tell me what color her hat she had on or anything like that? Yeah, she has a white hat or khaki colored. How far away is the officer? Our people were scared to death. We had to have our guys stand on the side and block them while they pulled out of the parking lot. Even where they're at now, they're on the property, so I hope the cop gets here as soon as she can see or she can see. Okay, we have them on the way. Just like to see. And these people are crazy. They like They could pull out a gun at any minute.

They're absolutely crazy. The things they scream about murder are crazy. All right, we just have to ask, is anyone involved in using alcohol or drugs? I don't know on our side. Okay. I can put it as. They seem pretty wired.

All right. Are you or anyone else in danger right, Neil? No, not right now. We're far. We're about 100 feet away. Anyway, back to Sandra on November 6, 2024. J.P. was arrested and charged with assaulting her outside of his church. J.P. is accused of running up to Sandra in an aggressive way and then tapping the brim of her hat twice.

That case is still pending, meaning it's active on the prosecution list according to the public index, but it wasn't mentioned in this current incident report involving both of these same people. In January of this year, J.P., his father and two church members, filed lawsuits against Sandra in small claims court, accusing her of harassment and, in J.P.'s case, invasion of privacy. And in late January, J.P. filed paperwork to get a restraining order against Sandra. That restraining order was denied by a judge, according to reports from the time, who told J.P. that he did not show enough evidence to warrant a restraining order and that the witnesses he had offered, which is to say his girlfriend, who is now his wife,

and his father, Pastor Wayne Miller, were biased. Again, he failed spectacularly. The cases filed by Wayne Miller and the two church members were dismissed by the court, and the case filed by J.P. was transferred to General Sessions, where Sandra filed a countersuit against him. And then J.P. dropped his case. But like I said at the beginning, in our opinion, J.P. is very talented at using the law to his advantage to bully and harass a person into submission, because people can only take so much. On November 4th, J.P. reported Sandra Karen to Ory County Police for vandalizing one of his sons. and she was arrested and charged for it.

Oh, no, right? Did she vandalize this church sign? Because that's not cool. Surely she would know better. Here's David with the incident report. On November 4th, 2025, I, Officer Thornton, responded to 4869 Highway 17 bypass, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, 29579,

which is within ORI County, in reference to, a harassment complaint. Upon my arrival, I spoke with victim slash suspect too. He means J.P. Miller there. Did you notice the ambiguity victim slash suspect? Stick a pin in that because the officer also refers to Sandra in the same way. Go ahead, David. Who stated that a female suspect slash victim one has been following and harassing him?

Meaning she's been protesting him outside of his church. He informed me of a sign on the side of the road that was in reference to suspect-slash-victim-2's ex-husband. That is confusing. Officer Thornton got turned around a little there and referred to Sandra as suspect-slash-victim-2 instead of one as he had earlier. But the point is this. Um, what, what, what, what? A sign in reference to Sandra's ex-husband? What the heck is going on here?

Turns out, J.P. had at least one sign made. Those sources have told us they've seen these signs in various areas throughout Myrtle Beach, calling for justice for Henry Karen, who is Sandra's estranged, not ex-husband. Justice? Um, did Sandra start a megachurch, allegedly cheat on her spouse at the time and marry this new spouse who had babysat for her and her first spouse's kids, a babysitter she had mentored as a teen. and took particular interest in, and who was also married at the time, did Sandra spend years trying to convince her spouse that he was mentally ill, giving him medicine that was actually prescribed to her, allegedly cheating on him with a church member whose spouse was a quadriplegic, and that same spouse allegedly died by suicide shortly after allegedly telling Sandra to stay away from their family? Did Sandra get accused of sexually assaulting children at her father's churchy business school in the 1990s? Was Henry found dead in a remote swamp in North Carolina?

I could go on, but I won't. I think I've made my point. But there is a big difference between Sandra and JP, right? J.P. is in a position of power and influence, and he's a collector of tithes. J.P. is facing serious allegations of using his positional power to abuse and control others, including Micah. Sandra is just a regular old person with a regular old, possibly future ex-husband. So let's talk about that possibly future ex-husband a little, and then we'll get back to the incident report. On August 7th of this year, a GoFundMe page was allegedly created by Henry Karen with the mission of help secure peace and safety from harassment.

According to the page, Henry is trying to raise $1,800 to hire an attorney. And as of this week, had raised just $400. All of it, right when the page was created, which is just two and a half weeks after final case against Sandra was. was dismissed. The donors are Mark Kaufman for $50. It's not clear whether this Mark Kaufman is the same Mark Kaufman, who is a known associate of JP. Then there's someone named Nicholas Anzalino for $50. Not sure who he is. There's Anonymous for $100. Ooh, an anonymous donor. How mysterious. Then there's Patricia Fustner and Donna Fustner for $50 each. I believe they might be relatives of Henry's. And then there's Nathan Downey for $100. No idea. who he is. It's not clear what if any involvement JP had in this GoFundMe or with Henry Karen, but that's it. No more donors after that. Just the six who donated right away to this mission, which includes photos that look like they were found on an old film roll under a mattress in a flop house.

The main photo is just a can of tuna fish. There's no context to it. It's hard to tell if it's even open or not. It's hard to tell whether it's on a counter or a floor. The brand is Stargist, though. Classic choice. The next photo is of a piece of whiteboard or something like that with marks on it and possible corrosion at the top. I don't know. Oh, it's a door. It's a door. The next photo pans down to a door handle with scratches around it and more marks on the side. Then there's a close-up of a couch or a chair with an unidentified stain or something on it. It's so hard to tell. But here's David with Henry's GoFundMe story slash his allegation. So this is not something I wanted to do, but I am being legally harassed.

Sandra and I have separated, and she has her own place. However, she is trying to claim my place as a marital home, which it's not. We decided to separate in January, and were moving out of the place we were in, and she had no options. I told her she could stay at the new place until she could figure something out. And that was my first mistake. Fast forward six months. And she has now got her own place in her name but continues to want to come to my place.

And it's legal for her to do so. She's destroying property in the home and stealing personal items of mine. She left rotten fruit and meat to attract bugs. All I want is for her. to leave me alone. In order for that to happen, I have to retain an attorney, and that's not cheap. And I don't have it. I'm asking my family, friends, and shipmates to help me out. Like I said, I didn't want to do this, but at every turn, I'm hitting roadblocks. She won't leave me alone, and the police won't do anything about it. Please, if it hits your heart to help

me, I'd appreciate it more than you know. Well, that's something. I've never seen a GoFundMe for a man finding meat and fruit in his apartment before, but a man having trouble getting the Ori County police to listen to his allegations of harassment. Huh, I am going to have to put that one in my list of things to think about later. For now, let's just stick to the JP part of this story. So that's Henry's alleged go-fund me story. It's messy and it's marital, but there's literally no public interest in it, meaning it would

be private if not for JP making it public. Neither Henry or Sandra hold positions of public trust, neither is a public figure. According to the Family Court Public Index, neither has even filed for divorce. And Henry has been a defendant twice in two cases involving DSS, including one that was filed in October 2025. It's unclear what those cases are about or who they involve other than him. That said, this is a private situation between two private citizens going through a breakup, and a pastor has no business putting that out there.

So why is there a sign on the side of the road that references Henry Karen? We'll have more on this incident report after a quick commercial break. Here's David with the rest of the incident report. On the sign written in marker was, quote, You Next, Justice for Micah Francis, on one side, and Good Morning Mercy, and Karma doesn't miss, presumably on the other. The two individuals have a long history of being in reports where each other is listed as a suspect or a victim.

The victim slash suspect 2, parentheses, that's JP, informed me that he was looking to get a restraining order against the female and needed the report for documentation. I took pictures of the sign for evidence. The writing on the sign is not a direct threat and does not meet the statute for harassment. Later on, before completing the report, I was contacted by suspect slash victim 1, parenthesis, that's Sandra. She also wanted to report the harassment and claimed that the victim slash suspect one placing signs around the area with, quote, justice for Henry Karen, was harassment against her. She also admitted that she was the one who wrote the message on the sign because she was upset when she saw it. I advised her that it was not harassment for him to have the signs, just the same as it is not

harassment for someone to write on his sign. I informed her that although it is not harassment, it was vandalism because she defaced property that was not hers and admitted to it. She said she would not do that again and that she was sorry. I informed her that if something does not belong to her, that she should not touch it. There is not enough evidence of harassment on either side. This case is administratively closed. Nothing further.

Okay, so to get back at a protester, the same one he is charged with assault, in 2024, and the same one he has sued and his father is sued and the church members of sued and frivolous small court claims that all ended with the thud, and the same one he tried to get a restraining order against but was denied by the court. J.P. had signs made up calling for justice for the protesters' estranged husband in a private relationship squabble, as if that's the same thing as protesting a public figure with power and influence, accused of using that power in influence to allegedly commit bad acts while continuing to occupy that role of power, influence, trust, and faith that involves taking people's money in exchange for his guidance?

I get that J.P. regards the protests themselves as an act of harassment, but it's not. It's a legal form of redress, and as long as the protesters are on public property and not disruptive to the public at large, they are allowed to do so for as long as they feel necessary. But J.P. making signs to antagonize a protester, presumably in the interest of pushing her to lose her resolve in protesting him, seems like, I don't know, harassment, in my opinion. Maybe not criminal harassment by the law, but possibly civil harassment. Okay, so here's where this gets nuts. Officer Thornton closed the case on November 4th, the very same day that it was reported.

Open and shut case, except, nope. Remember those invisible leashes I talked about earlier? On November 12th, eight days after the case closed, Officer Thornton got a warrant signed for Sandra's arrest for writing on J.P.'s Justice for Henry sign. Orie County Police Department arrested a woman for using a marker on a sign that a pastor paid to have made to antagonize her in retaliation for protesting him and his church. Why? Because like a good person, she admitted to doing it. I assume she thought that the police would understand that a sign being displayed publicly about her messy relationship is a different animal than a person exercising their right to protest something in the public interest, but no. I am floored and just so disgusted that this happened.

Should Sandra have written on JP's ridiculous sign? No, of course not. And I'm not even talking about the legal aspect of that. I mean, the psychological aspect, because what Sandra did is what reactive narcissistic abuse is all about. The alleged abuser antagonizes the alleged victim into reacting to the alleged abuse so that they can then turn around and point the finger back at them. Victim slash suspect slash victim. But again, this is a private citizen exercising her right to protest a public figure and a public figure paying money. Was it money from church members to have signs made about a private citizen's marital issues?

Why doesn't the law see a distinction there? A sign is not a sign, is not a sign, intent matters. And I hope that J.P.'s current congregation has questions for him about why a pastor would do such thing and how he paid for that. Sandra Karen has been charged with one misdemeanor count of malicious injury to animals and other personal property valued less than $2,000. Here's David with the verbiage from the State Code. It is unlawful for a person to willfully and malicious.

cut, shoot, maim, wound, or otherwise injure or destroy. Any horse, mule, cattle, hog, sheep, goat, or any other kind class article or description of personal property, or the goods and chattels of another. So yeah, that is the law she is charged with breaking. The penalty for violating this law is a fine of not more than $1,000 and or up to 30 days. in jail. According to the warrant for her arrest, the, quote, defendant did vandalize a personal sign by writing on it in permanent marker, which Officer Thornton misspelled. The owner had to throw away the signs. I thought there was just one because they, again, thought there was just one, were ruined.

The sign was valued at approximately $50 due to purchasing it with a personalized message. The defendant admitted to the officers that she had vandalized property because it made her upset. Notice that Sandra was in charge with trespassing, meaning the sign appears to have been on public property. So back to the part about this case being closed and then eight days later a warrant getting written and signed, we're looking into what happened there. Did J.P. push the issue? Who is prosecuting this ridiculous case? Why are police pursuing this case at all? And why isn't the elephant in the room being addressed? Why does J.P. get to antagonize a person, a person who has accused him of assault, and that person gets punished for it.

When will the Ory County Police Department look at JP and his calls for service holistically? When does he get to be considered a nuisance? Officer Thornton isn't some new kid on the block to this case. He was one of the officers who responded to J.P.'s call about this scary, makeup-free, heavy-set women in sweaters, terrorizing him. And he was a responding officer to another similar incident at a place called The Rathole,

where J.P. had temporarily moved his church in December 2024. A church member called the police on protesters there, and later Sandra called police on J.P.P. Miller, who she said had swerved his truck at her. J.P. Miller addressed Sandra's rest to WP.D.E. on Tuesday, saying, I've begged this woman to leave me and all the other children and elderly people alone, but she refuses. He apparently told the TV station that he will pay Sandra's bail and her fines if she agrees to quote, leave him alone.

He told the news station, it is my heart to show mercy, even when someone is found guilty. The thing that is incredibly infuriating about this report is it completely ignores the core issue, that J.P. Miller and Mr. It is my heart to show mercy.

Apparently had $50 signs professionally made to antagonize this woman over her marital problems. Where is that in the story? And nowhere. And that's the problem. Media has been completely lulled into complacency and news assignments are structured in a way where it's

bing bang boom quote the report quote whoever you can get on the phone good night good morning repeat reporters are failing to connect the dots to give critical context and to call out the lies as lies just across the board and it not only keeps the public in a state of being perpetually uninformed or perpetually not informed enough it perpetuates systemic problems such as people abusing their power and positions of of public trust. And again, this is David as David. And even though I'm normally reading documents,

I'm thankful to Liz and Mandy for letting me share my own voice and outrage on this episode. Which brings us to our next story about the O'Rey County Police Department and the many ways there are menace to good governance and degrading to the spirit of long. enforcement, that concept where we as citizens accept reasonable limitations on our absolute freedoms in exchange for protection from crime, traffic safety, and conflict resolution through legal

processes rather than violence. The social contract, as John Locke put it, works only when the police power remains accountable, regulated, and balanced against our constitutional rights, ensuring those entrusted with authorities serve the community rather than dominate it, and that system breaks when trust is eroded through untrustworthy conduct. Last week, Liz and Mandy told you about how police chief Chris Leonhardt announced that four of his officers had resigned in connection to some sex capades they were allegedly involved in, and how a fifth person, Ory County Public Information Officer Michaela Moser, also resigned in connection to the alleged sexcapades.

And what I'd like to know especially is why there was no mention of the sixth person apparently involved in this, Randy Webster, the deputy administrator for public safety and emergency management director, who abruptly retired, again, around this same time. Randy Webster, who oversaw a $16 million project that turned in to a $24 million project to build an emergency operations center that the county ended up naming after Randy. Randy Webster, who retired abruptly right after a disturbing sexual harassment complaint was lodged against him by two of the three women who were allegedly forced to resign. It was yet another move by a very troubled police department, and a move that should be in the running for the worst decision-makers in the history of decisions that have to be made award, or just irretrievably sinister.

Either way, or maybe it's both ways, this police agency has obviously, in my opinion, lost its right to the unique authority to operate outside of South Carolina's standard law enforcement. processes, that being it operates as a police department for an entire county rather than the sheriff's office. Anyway, after our episode aired, Attorney Johnny McCoy, who represents the two women lodging complaints against Randy Webster, former PIO Michaela Moscove and former HCPD officer Kelsey Manamite, held a press conference with both women bravely standing by his side. I say bravely because up until they retained an attorney, they were the butt of the joke as a result of the Internal Investigations report

released by ORI County Police that depicted them and three other officers as being sex-crazed adulterers by design. The report did not say exactly how these alleged sexual relationships were affecting the workplace or how they violated policy beyond noting that it was conduct unbecoming.

Were these chain of command issues? Were they each other's supervisors? Did something horrible happen that led to the exposure of these criss-cross affairs? What was it exactly they did wrong that resulted in dozens of social media users posting diagrams trying to make sense of their sexual relationships? Yeah, something happened all right, and it is so not something that should be happening in 2025. Or at least it shouldn't be. Both Mandy and I have apologized for believing ORI County Police Department and broadcasting their public releases in good faith. We talked more about this on this week's Cup of Justice, so be sure to have a listen.

Anyway, we were thrilled to hear that Johnny had taken Michaela and Kelsey's case, and you guys, Johnny delivered at the press conference he held last Thursday, which he held after filing the complaint with Ory County Court. I want to share some of the highlights from that press conference because this is how you show up for you. your clients and how you handle the media. My name is Johnny McCoy. I'm an attorney here at the Axelot and Associates Law Firm, all right, and we are here with our clients, two individuals that we're incredibly proud not only to represent, but to stand next to. To my right is former Orie County Public Information Officer, Michaela Moscov.

Am I saying that right? And over here to my left, is the name we'll probably all need to learn how to pronounce. This is ORI County, former ORI County Police Investigator in the Behavioral Services Unit, Kelsey Manimite. Did I get that right? All right. We are incredibly proud to represent these two young women in their lawsuit and quest for justice and transparency. Are we going to keep hearing that word transparency around town until somebody actually shows you what that is? And that's what we're actually going to do here today is we're actually going to be transparent and not issue a press release at 6 o'clock saying we're going to file.

lawsuit. We got retained and we brought you guys here and we're here to answer questions. All right. And we know that the other side has already started their little media journey. They went on WBDW on Monday and the chief went on there and said some really fascinating things for an attorney. It was quite interesting to listen to and we'll get into that in a second. But what we're doing here today and I get a little bit animated, I get a little bit heated, but this is serious. And there are serious consequences when government officials step over the line in an effort to quell the speech or the whistleblowing activities of individuals who are lower than they are on the totem pole, who they believe don't have the energy and or ability or network to fight back. That's

what Rory County's counted on for decades. I went to high school right down the road. We've seen it all before. And it's still going on in 2025. I don't care if there's a new chief. I don't care if there's a new chief in office. I don't care if there's a new county or a new deputy administrator coming down the line. It's still going on. And what happened here is I've used several words to describe this, but it's appalling what took place. Yes, Johnny. Orrick County has counted on the little guy not fighting back. And that is how we ended up in 2025 with men working there who still seem think it's 1990. And appalling is the right word. It's appalling that women aren't allowed to just work, to do the job they were hired to do, to make a name for themselves, to be considered a valuable

member of the team, and to be respected for what they bring to the mission. Johnny set the tone here and immediately, Mandy and I knew he was going to say everything that needed to be heard, and not just by the public, by the media as well. So chief lying heart, that's that right, lying heart, chief lying Hart goes on the news on Monday night and says that these individuals were fired because we have to uphold trust and transparency. They violated trust. I want you to remember that throughout the course of my discussion on the allegations, they were fired for violating somebody's trust. Whose trust that is? Let's have a conversation about that. Press release gets issued on Friday at 6 p.m. of last week. Now, for most individuals, we are just dying for

transparency from Ory County government. And when they finally release without Charles Perry and all you guys having to kick down the door, say, why has my FOIA been responded to? Without Mandy Matney and Liz Farrell going, what is going on with our stuff that we're asking about in concerning the Weldon Boyd case. Instead, three days after they forced these young women and the other individuals involved to resign, forced to resign or be terminated, the words of the chief on WPDE,

three days later they issue a press release on Friday afternoon at 6 p.m. So there'll be no conversations over the weekend. Hopefully it just dies down, but at the end of the day, it just feels like there's transparency finally coming from somewhere in Oregon County government. And we all took the bait, even I took the bait. I mean, I'm a civil rights guy.

I was like, man, inspiring police officers. I guess I can get behind that around here. Somebody needs to do something. And that was the entire ploy of this distraction that took place on Friday afternoon. And it worked. I've already apologized to both Michaela and Kelsey because in my mind, I was like, oh, they're great. We're being transparent.

But then I got it. And then I started looking at the facts a little. of it, just like you guys did. And I started getting phone calls, and all of a sudden, these individuals get referred to my office, and I am blown away. What I'm about to tell you, I can't believe that I'm hearing this as an attorney, because there are attorneys advising these people, but I want you to remember during whatever it is I'm about to tell you, this is exactly what we're going to allege in the lawsuit that was filed today. Okay? And can we take just a second to reflect on that. The county has, quote, in-house counsel. They have an HR department. They have all

the things that are supposed to protect the county from doing dumb stuff like this. But maybe they don't care because any lawsuit settlements usually are paid from the county's general funds or from insurance carriers, which are both supported by taxes. And if anyone is actually affected, it's the people receiving county services, not the departments or the individuals that caused the harm. Check the links in the description for resolutions in the Sonia Massey murder or the Marion County newspaper raids out in Kansas.

The wrongdoers rarely face accountability. And when they do, it's the community that pays for it. So it should be the community policing itself in these circumstances, holding public agencies to account. It's infuriating that no one in this mostly male ecosystem seems to have been like, hang on. I think I remember somewhere that firing whistleblowers isn't good. Let me, uh, Google that. I've heard of Google.

The 12-page complaint accuses the county, the police department, Randy Webster, and Chris Leonard of the following. Unlawful retaliation. forced resignations, wrongful termination, hostile work environment, sexual harassment, assault and battery, defamation, invasion of privacy, gross negligence, and more gross negligence. Again, shouldn't all of that been on the county's list of things to at least pause and consider or at the very least look up in the handbook? I'm assuming there's a handbook. It's basically a checklist that these boys should have been using to lay their decision-making tree on. Does this involve sexual harassment? Did anyone make a complaint regarding anything that could be

called assault and battery? Do you plan to say defamatory things about this employee afterward? Okay. Back to Johnny and what his clients said went down at work. when Kelsey and her then husband moved in across the street from Randy Webster and meets him. Randy Webster, oh my God, I'm a police officer with Conway PD. It's really great to meet you. I'm excited. I love to have conversations with you about behavioral health. It's what I care about most.

Love to have conversations with you about the police department. I'm in this. I want to be a police officer. This has been my dream since I was young. And I'd like, you know, I'd like to talk to you about it every now and then. But her husband lived there. So Randy kept it under control for the time being. Until Kelsey finds out, you guys have all seen her court records,

that her husband had committed adultery against her. Everybody got that? Kelsey finds out that her husband committed adultery against her. And Oregon County police officer committed adultery against her. Now, 60% of all marriages end in divorce, I don't like to talk about other people's personal lives, but that's why we're here. So unfortunately, we got to talk about all the facts.

This was in March of this year that Kelsey files for divorce. You guys ready for the dates? March of this year, she files for divorce. Shortly after that, Randy Webster starts to realize we've got a single mom of three living alone on a single household income now, and she's devastated. Like all mothers who face this situation, and they're forced to dissolve the family and all the security that she had financially or otherwise, and she confides in Randy Webster.

And you know what he says? I think I have the solution to your problem. Narrator, he did not have the solution because he was the problem. Allegedly. Here's Johnny with what he says Randy told Kelsey at the time before he appeared to create a position just for her so that he could allegedly begin courting her. get a lot of leeway with this behavioral services unit that we're creating with orie county.

Some might even say, some have said in comments and otherwise that this entire unit was, once it was starting to get created, at the inception, Randy Webster thought, I got just the person to work right underneath me in my building. So he offers her a job making a lot more money. and here she is her whole world's falling apart she's going through a divorce and she takes it from a guy whose names on the building and says okay something's going right and she starts work with him in may of this year okay may of this year march filed for divorce starts working with her across-the-street neighbor in may of this year immediately immediately the harassment begins no longer a neighbor no longer married, now it's time for Randy to cut loose. And I apologize because I never read,

but I have to get some of these text messages right. Oh, it's receipt time, friends. These text messages took place over the course of five months. She was only under his employment and under his supervision and under his direction for five months. This guy was in some sort of form in a supervisory role or otherwise at Ory County Police Department for third. 37 years. He did this to her for five months. He told her that he dreamed about her. Now, there are only three people in her unit. He handpicked all three of them from what we understand. All three of them were young females. And he said, you're going to work right next to me in my building. You're going to accompany me to my meetings. And you are going to be my closest confidant. Right? Right away. He asks her, do you find me desirable? This was within 60 days of her working for him. He begins kissing her on her cheek, in addition to hugging her. She pulls away from the kisses on the cheek.

And the reason we know this is because she texts him, let's keep it professional, cool it with some of this stuff. And he acknowledges, I'm sorry I crossed the line. These are in the text messages. We're not making this up. The guy knew that she was uncomfortable. He apologizes to her and actually says in a text message, I dreamed about you and we were swimming together in a creek and now I can't focus on work.

And when he approached her about the text message, the understanding was that they were scantily clad, a little bit of clothing on. Single mom going through a divorce, she's got one supervisor now whose name's on the building. She tells him, makes me feel like he sees me naked all day long. Johnny told the reporters, if this starts to feel like grooming, that's because this is exactly what's taking place. He said Kelsey continued to communicate with Randy in the hopes of getting him to knock it off. She's pleading with him in these messages and in person. Please stop. I love this job.

Please keep it professional. This is my dream to be working here. She did everything she could. And she even told her supervisor, because she wasn't number one rank under Randy Webster, the behavioral services unit. She tells her supervisor about what's going on and nothing happens, right? Normally they just come in my office after that. And they say, hey, I got something going on. And that takes a lot of bravery.

Y'all ready for courage? This young lady goes in to HR on October 16th of this year a few weeks ago and sits down. with two members of the HR department and starts reading the text messages. And we'll be right back. Last week, we shared parts of Kelsey's four-page complaint to HR. I just want to note that she not only made the tough decision to report this alleged behavior to HR,

she had to outline the alleged harassment to two men. And I say a tough decision because there are two types of people in the workplace. There are the people who have the false belief, that HR is there to protect them. So they make reports freely and without worry with the idea that this is what they're supposed to be doing in this instance, which they are. They totally are because that's what HR tells us all to do, right?

Report misconduct, which brings me to the other type of people. Those who know better, those who know that walking into HR and making a report is like standing up and shouting, I volunteer as tribute because there is no going back once you've said the thing. because HR is there to protect the company or the agency more than you. And unfortunately, they don't always see the solution to protecting the company or agency as get rid of the person engaging in misconduct, but rather as we have a troublemaker on our hands. Now, HR professionals might want to argue with us there, so I'll make sure to say not all HR departments. If you're listening to our show, we already know that you are not one of those HR reps.

Back to Johnny. Isn't this like a TED talk on Oriette? County Corruption. He's so good. She does something that I can only dream about having the confidence to do. Standing up to authority when you don't have cameras in front of you and you don't have a law degree and you don't have a big network, I don't think I could have done it even today. I'm here and I'm not afraid because I got you guys and Charles Perry and Mandy Matney. I got friends in high places and I still get a little worried about this Randy Webster guy.

I've had people message me. Be careful. about Randy Webster. She goes in, fills her heart out, October 16th. October 17th, Randy Webster tells Barry Spivey, I'm resigning. Let me say that again. October 17th, the day after she delivers a four-page single-spaced verbal complaint,

he tells, Randy Webster tells Barry Spivey, I'm retired. 37 years, that's the day he picks. On October 27th, she finds out there's an internal affairs investigation in October 28, she gets called in. And it's finally time for her to talk about what happened with Randy. It's finally time for her to stand up for all the other women that are being ostracized and marginalized in positions around Orie County and other good old boy areas of the country.

It's finally time. And she sits down and they immediately look at her and go, who have you been having sex with in the Orie County Police Department? That's what they said to her. at the IA she thought she was going to because she reported that Randy Webster was sexually harassing her and wouldn't stop. Make no mistake about it.

That's what the claim was. What's awful about this is how relatable it is. You do the right thing. You report the misconduct. You're honest with your employer. And out of nowhere, boom. It's you that is suffering the worst repercussions. As a former marketing professor,

in a multinational corporation, I know how deadly a harassment suit can be to brand image. But what about a public service that apparently doesn't care what people think? Because its leadership is not elected by the people or held to account seemingly in any way. The South Carolina Office of Disciplinary Council is a great example of that, too.

See almost every episode for reference. According to the complaint, Kelsey told Chief Leonhard that she was living apart from her husband, who was also an Ory County Police Department officer, and that the breakup occurred because of his adultery. He has a new girlfriend, and she too went on dates, including one with the Don Cobotin, one of the other officers who was forced to resign. And she's in a current relationship with Tori Lewis, another officer who was forced to resign. That relationship with Tori was previously disclosed to Chief Leonhardt, according to Kelsey.

Lo and behold, they're like, this relationship that you have with Tori must be causing some sort of issues because your husband is on the same team as Tori. And that's when they start to make the targeted, I would call it a sex scandal, but a targeted smear campaign against Kelsey Manamite so that when the claims against Randy Webster came to surface that her credibility would be smeared. And it's like this old trick, the old, you know, the witch hunts from like the 1930s like,

oh, we just say that the woman's unchast and she's sleeping around. Nobody will believe her. She's a terrible person. And read some of the comments on y'all's media outlets. They say that. Well, she shouldn't have been sleeping around. She got what she deserved.

That was what they wanted to take place, and it worked. It was a witch hunt, and it worked, thankfully, not for long, which brings us to Michaela Moscoff, the public information officer who we had been at war with since we started covering the micro-Francis case. Here's Johnny with what Michaela says she went through. Now, during this entire time period, Michaela, without even talking with Kelsey, starts complaining that she's noticing Kelsey feeling uncomfortable and she feels as though the relationship between Randy Webster and the individuals and the females in the behavioral services unit is looking bad for County Police and it's bad optics. Those are the words that she kept

using to her bosses, to Barry Spivey, to the county administrator, to multiple other individuals. She even told Randy Webster, this looks bad. The back rubs, the long car rides, the scheduling random meetings to be alone with Kelsey, this looks bad. And he responds and says, I've been doing this long enough, I don't care. She gets called in November 3rd. And again, she's like, here we go. We're going to talk about the complaints that I made against Randy Webster. You know, something's going to be done here.

Because after Randy Webster resigned, she was the one fielding the calls from the community going, is this happening to do with sexual harassment? There was always smoke out there. So she approaches her supervisors and says, what do I say about this? And they say it was because of medical reasons. So when she goes in on November 3rd, she's like, maybe this is about Randy Webster,

and she sits down and what do they say? Who have you been having sex with in the Oregon County Police Department? Three days later, on November 6th, they were called in by superiors in the Oregon County Police Department, and to quote Chief Lyinghol, on WBTW, they resigned, but they knew that if they didn't resign, we were going to fire him. He said that on the news to you. I mean, it's like they didn't even ask a lawyer. It's like they don't even care. But we're going to make them care today, right?

According to Johnny, ORI County Police accused Michaela and Kelsey of creating an unharmonious work environment, and they were forced to resign in the name of truth and transparency, which is a laugh. Chief Leonhard has been with the Ori County Police Department for 23 years. He is the equivalent of an adult child still living at home. This is the only world he knows. He was shaped by it. He was molded by it and was part of a culture that normalized bad acts and swept things under the rug for certain people. So Chris Leonhardt saying that anything in that department is being done in the interest of truth and transparency is like me asking a long John Silver's cashier what caviar they'd recommend because they don't have that there. Let's talk about the media's role

in all of this and what went down during the press conference. First and foremost, even if all the allegations are true against these individuals, no laws were broken, no code of conduct was broken, nothing. Everything was consensual if it happened and everything was off. duty, which they admitted on WBTW on Monday night. None of this stuff happened at work. Everybody consented. Nobody was really complaining about anything. No relationships overlapped with each other. There was no orgy going on like the press release kind of alludes to. None of that. Consenting adults. And one of my favorite things is once we start, you know, pushing back and we start standing up for these young ladies, once we start pushing back,

you guys are like, whoof, probably shouldn't have printed that, and you go out and do some digging. So the Sun News, where's Sun News? Sun News writes an article today where they contacted criminologist experts and professors and asked, is it normal to terminate a police officer for misconduct, for any kind of personal relationship that they're having off duty? And it said, no. criminal law just said I've never heard of such a thing

never heard of such a thing another thing that was pointed out is how rapid this IA went through and how quickly they not only got fired but got plastered all over the media another thing that is not status quo

but the truth is there were allegations made against Randy Webster before he resigned he told Charles Perry of the Post and Courier I had no idea that there was a sexual discrimination or harassment claim laid against me when I resigned. But then somebody at the county who responded to Charles after several days says, no, no, he knew about it. Literally. I mean, go read the article from the posting courier.

They said, no, he knew about it. He resigned in the middle of the investigation before it was concluded. So I guess Randy Webster wasn't being truthful there and should have been fired and smeared all over because he lied. to the media and said he didn't know about any sexual harassment or discrimination claims. Although he has a multitude of texts from Kelsey

saying, you're acting on professional. Let's keep it professional. Stop doing this. She tells him in person. Michaela tells Randy Webster to his face. These are bad optics. He knows that there are people around complaining that he is crossing a line with his subordinates. And yet

he still says, I retired medically. That is called a source just lied to you. Turns out he's not the only one. In the interview, Johnny keeps referring to with Chief Leonhard on WBTW, Chief Leonhardt told reporter Adriana Lawrence that he was not aware of any sexual harassment complaint

that had been made against Randy Webster by Kelsey Manamite before Kelsey was forced to resign. Here's David with how that actually went down. Adriana, are you aware that she, Kelsey, filed a sexual harassment complaint, complaint against now retired Randy Webster just before he announced his retirement? Chief Leonhardt, that information, you'd have to go downtown. I'm not privy to that information, Adriana.

So, not aware of anything involving Kelsey and Randy. Chief Leonhardt, no, not at this point. You would have to check downtown on that, unfortunately. Check downtown? Okay, calm down, you little weirdo. You work in Myrtle Beach, not Miami. Turns out that was a lie, a big, fat, not truth, and not transparency, which is funny because in that same interview, Chief Leonhardt also said this, David. We owe it to the public, to our partners, to the media, to be as transparent as we can be.

I think actions like this speak for themselves and lets people know they can trust the ORI County Police Department. Can someone hand me an oxygen mask because the gas lighting is intense? Here's how the county spokesman clarified what Chief Leonhardt, who refused Adriana's request to talk on the record, was saying, here's David. Chief was informed by Kelsey, she filed an HR complaint against Randy Webster during the time period between when Randy emailed county staff his intention to retire and before Kelsey resigned. Adriana asked the new P.I.O. Thomas Bell, why Chief Leonhard had said he wasn't aware of Kelsey's complaint? The answer she got? Chief Leonhard meant he wasn't aware of the details, which, in my opinion, is a lie. Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. Are we supposed to believe that in that moment, the chief really thought Adriana was asking him about the details in a sexual harassment report that she hadn't mentioned? Or is it more like, that he knew that she was asking him whether he was aware of a complaint that had been made shortly before he pressured Kelsey into resigning. Because one of those questions has to occur before the other, right? You first need to say, do you know about the thing? If the answer is yes,

then you ask, what was in it? Like Johnny said. Now, this interview was a point of contention at the press conference and all hell broke out between Johnny and the reporters. The first reporter asked whether a report had been filed about the harassment. So, was there ever a police report made that? No, to who? Yeah, she made one to Randy Webster, who was at the Oregon County Police Department. Not a police report, she reported to a police officer. You know what I mean? Who's she supposed to go to? The IA is the report she made. Johnny told the reporters that Randy made up fake work events to attend with Kelsey to get alone time with her.

Webster used to say, hey, Kelts, we're going out of town for a meeting. He told her on one occasion, we're going out of town for a meeting in Columbia with Sled, locked off the whole day. They get into Columbia, and he's like, oh, no meeting, just wanted personal time with you. And they drive back. This guy was doing whatever he could to get her alone, and it didn't matter how many times that she pled with him. I just want this to be professional. That incident alone would have been enough to fire Randy Webster, and it's not hard to imagine that Webster might have known that, hence the abrupt retirement for, quote, medical reasons.

Speaking of, one reporter wanted to know why Michaela told the press that Randy retired for medical reasons if she knew that she had reported him for sexual harassment, which is an asinine question in this context, because what insight would she have had about how her complaint affected the situation? You think those bozos were being honest with her? Things escalated from there. I'm going to play the next exchange without interruption. A male reporter asks the original question, and during Johnny's response, he points to a female reporter, possibly Adriana Lawrence,

who did the interview with Chief Leonard, in which he lied to her about not knowing about the sexual harassment complaint. Was there any type of relationship? What do you mean? Was there any type of relationship? If it wasn't sexual, was there... Are they friends?

I mean... boat workers hanging out between her and which one why i mean that you know that in my heart which is skipped like four beats now because you're doing exactly what they wanted you to do it has nothing to do with the case all this has to do is more smeared and coming from you yeah you a female trying to make it in this industry with other people you what you want to know she was it what she was a friend with another guy is are you going to put that in your article and and bash her for that? Or do you want to know whether or not,

like he made a pass at her? Like, what details do you want? Really, the facts. Well, you printed the facts without talking to anybody else that these people were in basically a sex praise scandal and that they deserve to be fired for that. To who? You know, don't reach out to her.

I'm representing her. You know exactly where I'm at. I'm actually in a second. Go ahead. Go ahead, you and I can do this all day. Let's, let's all take for a second. You just asked if she was friends with one of the guys. What do you mean, excuse me?

Excuse me. Excuse me. Move on. Who else has a question? Go ahead, David. Go ahead. I'll end it right now. I'll end it right now. I'll end it right now. I'll end it right. Y'all want to be done? Go ahead, David. Have the actions of Randy Webster compromised this county's a due violation? Of course it had. That's why everybody's so fired up. That's the real issue. Yeah, we understand that. But asking her if she was at a friendship and what relationship, it has no bearing on anything. What we were trying to do is just see why there's saying the things that they're saying. We told you. To be an outright denial. We told you that. We just told you. We're denying everything they're accusing her of.

Yes. No sex. She never had sex with Tori. Ever. Never kissed him. Nothing. At the end of the presser, Johnny apologized for yelling at the reporters,

which was nice of him because I don't know that Mandy or I would have. Actually, I know we wouldn't have because, come on. What does it take for women reporting bad acts? not to be treated like they committed the bad acts. Michaela Moscoff is standing face to face with the people she interacted with daily and telling them she's not well. Her reputation has been shattered and the job that she loved to do is gone.

And people in her workplace and now her community are asking about her sex life. Johnny has spent 40 minutes telling these reporters how the allegations were the result of Chief Leonhardt mischaracterizing what Michaela and Kelsey had told him and what the actual truth was. He told the reporters that these women were pushed out for reporting the alleged harassment. All the pieces are there. The Internal Affairs report is vague. Doesn't cite any specific incidents related to the alleged relationships. The reporter told Johnny that they wanted to know how it was that the police department got this so wrong, which is a fair question.

We're all so used to there being kernels of truth and everything. But there was a better way and more respectful way of asking that question where the women making the accusations aren't being put on trial, where Michaela isn't being centered as being responsible for the chief's alleged mischaracterization. Why would it matter if Michaela was platonic friends with Tori Lewis? What does it change about the allegations? The only reason to ask that question in that way

is to give the police chief an out, to give him some cover so that the audience and therefore the public will be like, oh, so the little girl in the suit making the accusations with palsies with Tori, obviously the chief misunderstood her. We all need to do better in how we talk about allegations of sexual harassment in the workplace

and how we talk to the people who are making allegations, especially when we know so much about the historical lack of credibility and integrity, Ory County, and its police department have. Next week is Thanksgiving, so we'll have special plan

for the true sunlight and cup of justice feeds, but please know we are working diligently to hold all these public officials, accountable. Stay tuned. Stay Pesky and stay in the sunlight. provided by Kate Thomas. Learn more about our mission and membership at lunasharkmedia.com.

Interruptions provided by Luna and Joe Pesky.