Murdaugh Murders Podcast - TSP #149 [Part One] - Will Accused Murderer Lee Gilley Actually Get Asylum After Creating An International Diplomatic Debacle In Italy?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Years before, the name Ehrlich Murdoch was splashed across every major media outlet. I was a local South Carolina journalist, and I had an instinct that something wasn't right in the low country. The powerful Murdoch dynasty dominated rural South Carolina for generations. Few dared to publicly utter a harsh word against them. From the newsroom to the courtroom to the kitchen table where we recorded the number one global hit, The Murdoch Murdoch Murders podcast, I invite you to learn more about my book, Blood on Their Hands. Blood on their hands is a harrowing first-person narrative of battles against systemic subversions of the truth, overcoming institutional sexism, corruption, and threats

Starting point is 00:00:43 to my personal safety to expose a network of horrific crimes and give voice to victims. Click the link in the description to order today. Visit any retailers near you or visit lunasharkmedia.com slash book to learn the best way you can stay pesty. ski and stay in the sunlight. I don't know how long it will take to get accused killer Lee Gilley back to the United States. But after the Texas man who was caught in Milan appeared in Italian court last week, it is safe to say that Lee Gilley has created quite the international diplomatic debacle that could unfortunately, delayed justice in this case for years.

Starting point is 00:01:32 My name is Mandy Matney. This is True Sunlight, a podcast exposing crime and corruption, previously known as the Murdoch Murders podcast. True Sunlight is a Luna Shark production, written with journalist Liz Pharrell. Well, I have so much to say today, but first, I want to tell you that this is part one of a two-part episode. I know the Murdoch News has been relentless in the past. past week, and we will cover all of that in part two. Today, we have to talk about Flea Gilly

Starting point is 00:02:05 and the international insanity taking place in that case. But first, we need to briefly tell y'all about what happened in my contempt of court hearing last week, and there is no better person for y'all to hear this from than my biggest supporter and defender on this planet, my extraordinary husband David Moses. Here is David as David. David here, and I hope you all know just how honored we are to be considered worthy of your support that overflowed on Friday in York County. Roughly a hundred of you by our best count showed up to that rural courtroom wearing pink from across South Carolina, from Virginia, New Jersey, neighboring states from further away. The court was crowded to a point where some were told to wait in the hallway, and it was powerful to say the least.

Starting point is 00:03:01 I have to thank some of you by name. Jennifer M., Kat, Sarah from the Hickory Post, Whitney from Greenspace, Jeff H, Katie, Blair, Stephanie T, Stephanie F, Stephanie G. Thank you for showing up the way you always do. Thank you to Sandy Smith, the lone bright green dot in a sea of pink, though many in the crowd, had green ribbons too. Thank you to Liz for traveling from Baltimore to join our defense of journalism and the Constitution and women's safety. Thank you to Eric Bland, whose powerful expressions of support radiated throughout the courtroom. And Beth Braden, who was beaming with energy that I know kept Mandy's spirits high, and to our phenomenal attorneys Meredith Bannon and Becky Lindell for the

Starting point is 00:03:50 arguments and direct examination that I know impressed ever. everyone watching. So here's what happened. The hearing was a contempt proceeding over Mandy's March 27th attempted deposition, the one she was ready and able to give in Bluffton and on Zoom, with Parker's lawyers half a mile down the street, where Mark Moore refused to walk over and refused to reschedule and refused to communicate and refused to prevent one iota of burden befalling a non-party witness. At the onset, before our team got started, J.D. Jacobus and Brad Huddo, who represent Parker's co-defendants, those private investigators, and yes, that Brad Hutto, well, they argued Greg Roman is, quote, dodging his deposition subpoena at every turn

Starting point is 00:04:45 without any order to compel him to do so in sight. The comparison to Mandy's treatment is Stark. And then, well, Becky Lindell argued correctly, we believe that the entire position from Team Parker is fatally defective under South Carolina law because it wasn't sworn. Judge Kelly did not rule on that. Mandy took the stand and was, in my deeply biased opinion, extraordinary, composed, honest, specific about the years of threats she's lived under and unflinching about the emotional and financial cost. The unbreakable Meredith Bannon guided Mandy through documented years of harassment and abuse, with emails, social media posts and other communications threatening her life originating from deeply unwell individuals. It was hard for me to keep my composure. We also entered

Starting point is 00:05:43 a number of exhibits demonstrating the escalating pattern of harassment from one federal felon named James P. Seidel, who's targeted me as well but nothing compared to what Mandy, Liz, and Eric have endured. And Mandy was able to provide her impressions of a sworn deposition of that Cali Lions who said Seidel communicates with Parker's attorneys and negotiated the sale of those allegedly stolen and unauthenticated text messages which Seidel continues to publish, an ongoing defamation campaign. That is the link between Part. and Seidel and the fear they intentionally created on March 27th. The subpoena deposition location might have well been at the bottom of a lake or on the moon,

Starting point is 00:06:32 being too dangerous and wildly burdensome on purpose. In my opinion, Mandy was physically incapable of putting herself in harm's way. Just like if a piece of paper said to jump off a building because some lawyer wants to depose her on the first floor, that doesn't mean. anyone should be punished like this for taking the elevator for the stairs. Making any argument about her willfully disobeying a court order is absurd, and this entire exercise a continuation of that abuse that's been ongoing for years. And then the court ran out of time. Mandy, is mid-testimony, has not been cross-examined yet, and will not talk to her attorneys

Starting point is 00:07:18 about her testimony until after cross-examination concludes. But she can and will talk with everyone else. I hope you listen to Cup of Justice 180. Many details are included. And we'll continue talking about it on social media and through our premium emails, knowing that everything we say can and will be used against Mandy in cross-examination.

Starting point is 00:07:44 And perhaps other litigation as well. Compounding all that stress is, that Team Parker will demand all legal fees for these proceedings, meaning that every moment spent on Mandy's defense may cause thousands of dollars added to any contempt finding that would order Mandy not to pay the court for wrongdoing, but to pay Greg Parker's legal bills in seeking the contempt. That's right, the billionaire's legal bills. And then also on any appeal we seek, those financial implications would also attach. Those are real facts that cannot be understated. This is punitive, criminal contempt, poorly disguised as coercive, civil contempt, with estimates of the

Starting point is 00:08:34 financial sanction, meaning what Mandy might have to pay Greg Parker's lawyers between $25,000, meaning the punishments are real without any of the protections that the due process afforded in a criminal contempt situation would offer like a jury trial. My hope is that the judge is listening to testimony and regarding the evidence. And he seems to, albeit stoically, and if it doesn't go our way, there's a magnificent argument for the appeals court, again, which would unfortunately carry the same financial implication if we lose that too, we'd have to pay the billionaire's legal fees. Think about that for a moment.

Starting point is 00:09:20 We'll keep you posted the moment we have a date for the continuation of that hearing. Until then, thank you from the both of us for showing up. Okay, let's start with one positive update in the Gilly case. The state of Texas actually ruled against attorney Dick DeGaron. On Friday, May 18th, Judge Peyton Peebles issued an order forfeiting Lee Gilley's $1 million bond. This means the Gilley family has to pay the court or the bondsman the $1 million bond. This means they will have to forfeit any assets they put up as collateral. It is not clear what assets the family used as collateral, but it's important to know

Starting point is 00:10:08 Lee's family owns the Yum Yum shack in Pilser, South Carolina, and a number of properties in the upstate. His mother just died of cancer on April 3. Here is David with the order written by Judge Peoples. On May 5, 2026, Gilly failed to appear at a scheduled evidentiary hearing in this case, despite having notice to do so. His counsel urged the court not to forfeit Gilly's bail because his bondsman was pursuing his return

Starting point is 00:10:39 and because Gilly's family members, rather than Gilly himself, assumed the obligations necessary to secure his release. secure his release. The court withheld its ruling and offered the parties a limited time to present additional arguments and authority. The court has now weighed all arguments and authority. The risk of forfeiture and obligations undertaken by a defendant or his family to secure that risk are the very cornerstone giving strength to a surety bond system. To ignore them would dissolve its core and render the system pointless and ineffective.

Starting point is 00:11:20 The court previously ordered Gilly's surety bond revoked, thereby terminating his conditional release and compelling him to reappear in court in person. The court now orders the security supporting that bond forfeited, subject to all applicable and necessary due process surrounding such forfeitures. That is court speak for F-around and find out. This is what you get, Gilly family, when you trust your accused killer son. Now, Judge Peebles has received a ton of criticism in this case, but it should be noted that he was not the judge who issued Lee Gilley's initial bond in 2024.

Starting point is 00:12:04 So let's call this Lee Gilley's bond journey, shall we? Because despite Judge Peeble's revocation of Lee's million-dollar bond, which, again, great, but also, duh, what else was he going to do? It has generally felt like authorities in both countries have been responding to this situation less like an allegedly dangerous man, has made fools of them and gone on the lamb, and more like they got a midnight call that their privileged and petulant teenage son had dipped out on his outward bound program,

Starting point is 00:12:36 hopped a plane to Milan with an unread copy of Catcher in the Rye, and is now refusing to come home unless his parents promised they won't get mad. So, Lee was first arrested on October 11, 2024, and his bond hearing was the next morning at 9.30, where his public defender, yes, he briefly had himself a public defender, requested that Lee be released in lieu of a $50,000 bond, and the district attorney requested that Lee stay behind bars until trial. Ah, what could have been?

Starting point is 00:13:08 A magistrate named Lisa Blonde. Porter denied Lee Bond that morning, which was a very wise decision, but also the only decision she could make according to the Texas Code on Criminal Procedure. Because Lee was charged with capital murder, Judge Porter does not appear to have had the authority to release him anyway. But at the bottom in the bail form, Judge Porter signed her name, attesting that in determining Lee not get a bond, she considered the guidelines set forth in Texas Government Code 7 and the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure. And I want to talk about this because it's interesting in that way that's...

Starting point is 00:13:48 Oh, interesting. In 2021, the Texas legislature passed the Damon Allen Act, which reformed the state system of granting bill to defendants. The act was named after a 41-year-old state trooper who was killed during a traffic stop in 2017 by a man who was out on a $15,000 bond after being accused of assaulting a police officer with his vehicle. Two years prior to that, this man was arrested and charged with assaulting a public official.

Starting point is 00:14:22 When Damon Allen pulled the man over for speeding in 2017, the man hopped out of the car with a rifle and opened fire on Allen, killing him. The man was charged with capital murder and sentenced to life in prison with no parole. The state agreed not to seek the death penalty against him in exchange for the man not claiming insanity as a defense. I'm going to have David read a press release from Governor Greg Abbott's office about the Damon Allen Act of 2021 that resulted from this case. David. Governor Abbott today signed Senate Bill 6, the Damon Allen Act, into law at the Texas Pastor Counsel's Safer Houston Summit.

Starting point is 00:15:06 The Damon Allen Act will keep Texas communities safe and secure by prohibiting the release on personal bond of defendants charged with a violent offense or who are charged while released on bail. The Damon Allen Act ensures Texas communities are safe and secure by making it harder for dangerous criminals to be released on bail. Governor Abbott said, Texas cities will not follow the lead of Portland, Seattle, and Minneapolis, Texas will remain a law and order state and continue using every tool available to preserve the safety that Texans deserve. That is why I am proud to sign the Damon Allen Act into law,

Starting point is 00:15:52 which will reform our broken bail system in the Lone Star State." Governor Abbott made bail reform an emergency item during the 87th legislative session and placed it on the agendas for the first and second special sessions. I mean, to be fair, the press release wasn't bragging about a safer Italy. So I guess that's one technicality the governor can hang on to when he's trying to sleep at night, knowing his state is the one that let Lejeune, Jean-Luc, Olivier, Gilley, go. Okay, so the Damon Allen Act basically standardized the paperwork involved with bond setting, centralize the rulings and the judge's reasoning to improve communication related to prior arrest and convictions.

Starting point is 00:16:39 It required magistrates to take criminal history into account and barred magistrates from allowing those charged with violent crimes to be released on personal recognizance. Obviously, Lee didn't have a criminal history, but the point here is that this is a state with a governor who has strong opinions on defendants accused of violent crimes being allowed to freely roam the lone star state. while awaiting trial. But money also talks, right? So less than a week later, a second more formal bond hearing was held for Lee, which we've talked about. This is where Judge Janine Barr set Lee's bond at a million dollars. Now, judges and lawyers in Texas are probably going to be like, that's great. Sounds like everyone followed the law in setting Lee's bond. Judge Barr was required to set bond at an amount commensurate with the seriousness of the crime and Lee's ability to pay. And she did that. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

Starting point is 00:17:34 But she also wasn't required to give him any bond because it's a capital murder case. Judge Barr doesn't have to take any heat on this, though, because she's retired and learning to play the guitar, apparently. Back to Judge Peebles, though, the guy getting blamed for this. Governor Greg Abbott appointed Peyton Peebles to the 497th Judicial District Court in Harris County in January 2025 for a special term that will end this year. judges in Texas are elected through partisan voting, meaning they're not elected by a group of legislators like in South Carolina. Peoples will be running as a Republican judge this year. While Judge Peoples did not set Lee Gilley's initial bond, he did grant him special permission to leave this state of Texas on April 1st and return on April 5th to see his dying mother in

Starting point is 00:18:26 Greenville County, South Carolina. The order specifically said that Lee was ordered to travel by air to and from South Carolina and was only allowed to be in Greenville and Spartanburg counties during his trip. Is it possible, Lee learned about how little they actually monitored him during that trip? Did he learn more about air travel

Starting point is 00:18:46 for murder defendants and figure out his great escape? Was he reminded of what it was like to not be someone who has been accused of killing his wife, an unborn child? For sure, it's possible. But also, Lee says he was working on this little escape plan for a year, according to

Starting point is 00:19:02 reporting by the Republican news site in Italy. In our opinions, Biggilly's case should set a precedent for all murder cases in the United States. Bonds should never be granted for murder suspects. If the government has enough evidence to indict you for murder, they have enough reason to put you behind bars until trial. We've seen way too many defendants out on bond for murder, living their best lives as though nothing happened, and at some point, enough is enough, especially when it comes to intimate partner violence. But even if you don't agree with our take there, there's that bigger factor at play.

Starting point is 00:19:36 As we said before, the whole world saw this coming for flee gilly. Christ's father warned the court early on that Lee had told them he wanted to flee right after Krista's death when he felt as though police were looking at him. Family friends told prosecutors that Lee made clear plans

Starting point is 00:19:54 to leave the country on the week of October 7, 2024, but was interrupted by his arrest on October 11th. Just weeks before he fled Italy, prosecutors filed a document that said they had obtained evidence of Lee talking to his former lover about very specific plans to cut his GPS monitor, move to Mexico or another country, and even get married to avoid his trial. Prosecutors should have pushed harder to revoke Lee Gilley's bond, and Judge Peebles never should have allowed Lee Gilly to fly out of the state while on bond. Okay, so again, Lee's family is on the last. the hook for vouching for him. That is the good news. The bad news is that Lee Gilley is still in

Starting point is 00:20:37 Italy, according to his Italian attorney Monica Grasso, who was quoted in a report from NBC News, saying Lee is, quote, confident that he will be able to obtain international protection from Italy. Ooh, tell me more about the misplaced confidence than a man like Lee is prone to having. Actually, here is the full quote from his attorney. Quote, I found him looking worn down. The 10 days since May 1st have been very difficult. He is physically exhausted, partly due to the constant transfers, yet he remains calm and confident that he will be able to obtain international protection here in Italy.

Starting point is 00:21:20 I mean, how predictable is that? She is pity shopping for a man who should be in Houston right now, preparing for his trial, but instead is exhausted, and because of the fugitive, things that he has had to do as the fugitive that he chose to be. But don't worry, guys, he's confident. Actually, it's kind of funny. Almost three weeks ago, Lee's high-powered American attorney Dick DeGarren, the guy making the big bucks, was broadcasting his legal advice to Lee through the media, telling Lee to waive extradition, meaning don't make

Starting point is 00:21:57 this harder than it has to be because the inevitable conclusion is that you will end up back here in Houston, buddy. And Lee, again, because he's predictable and confident, did not listen to that, no doubt, very expensive advice, which paused for a second. After we wrote this script for last week, before the Murdoch Mayhem took over, two of Lee's three Houston attorneys filed sealed motions. seeking the court's permission to withdraw from the case, according to click to Houston. We don't know which attorneys or why they are asking to be let go as Lee's attorneys, but it's worth mentioning that two of Lee's three attorneys were hired on the same day,

Starting point is 00:22:46 October 14th, 2024, a few days after Lee's arrest. Those attorneys are Ed McLeese and Bill Stradley. Dick DeGaron wasn't hired until a month after that, according to the Harris County case file. I'm not saying that it's Ed and Bill who are tapping out. We don't know until we know exactly. But it feels right to call Lee Dick's boy at this point. Anyways, Dick's boy instead has chosen to create an international diplomatic drama as if he's some political refugee persecuted for speaking out for the people, and not a mediocre middle-aged American man relying on his family's wealth,

Starting point is 00:23:33 who, by the way, was on the hunt for a college-age mistress, allegedly, specifically a white one, just a few months before his pregnant wife's alleged killing, and whose expertise in Excel spreadsheets was becoming less and less marketable, to the point where he was losing business, which appears to have prompted him to make a big, manly, an impulsive flex of denial by unilaterally, deciding to buy a surprise Kia SUV, which appears to have led to a fight resulting in his wife's death,

Starting point is 00:24:07 allegedly at his likely soft and pampered hands. More after a quick break, and we'll be right back. Right now, news and politics are moving awfully fast. can feel overwhelming, to say the least. I'm Evan Osnows, a staff writer for the New Yorker. On the political scene podcast, we slow things down to understand how power really operates in Washington, D.C., and what it means for you. My co-hosts, Jane Mayer and Susan Glasser and I have decades of reporting experience. And every Friday, we have conversations with insiders and experts to understand the forces remaking America. Join us Fridays for the Washington,

Starting point is 00:25:01 Roundtable from the political scene. On Mondays and Wednesdays, you can also hear insightful episodes from our New Yorker colleagues, David Remnick and Tyler Foggett, available wherever you get your podcasts. So let's talk about how things have been going for Lee the past two weeks in Texas and in his newly adopted home of Italy. First, we learned that Lee might have had another fake identity before Lejeune-Jean-Luc-Olivier. Two weekends ago, the Republic. an Italian news site, reported that Lee had used a fake American passport under the name

Starting point is 00:25:48 Jan Mallet. And I'm sure there's a better pronunciation at. Maybe it's Jean Malay on his journey between Houston and Toronto and Milan, which makes no sense. Are they saying he went to Milan as Jan Mallet but then whipped out his Lejeune paperwork at Milan's border police? If so, no wonder he was caught. My God! Something tells me this guy had a Lee Flees spreadsheet.

Starting point is 00:26:11 and forgot to include be consistent in the things for Lee to remember column. Anyway, as you know, he was stopped by the Milan border police who questioned Lee's apparently fake Belgian passport under the name Lejeune Jean-Luc Olivier, according to U.S. prosecutors who charged Lee two weeks ago with interstate flight to avoid prosecution. It's important to note this. Only after he was caught with a bad passport did legally claim asylum. I'm going to say that twice because it's a big deal. Lee was caught trying to sneak into the country by fraudulent means.

Starting point is 00:26:48 It didn't work. He got found out. And that's when he was like, help, death penalty. Despite, and we can't say this enough, prosecutors never having declared that this would be a death penalty case. Stick a pin in that, by the way. We need to talk about that. Now, in another important development on May 8th, Judge Peebles approved a gag order after the prosecutor's Jana Oswald and Sean Tier, requested for the court to restrict any extrajudicial statements being made by either side to the media.

Starting point is 00:27:17 This gag order does not affect journalists covering the case. It simply restricts lawyers from both sides from making statements to the press until trial. All attorneys, their staff, law enforcement, and witnesses involved in this case are also prohibited from discussing the case with the media. This request was made after defense attorney Dick DeGaron gave People magazine an exclusive interview, which revealed his strategy for trial. And y'all, we got to talk about that one. The article is titled, Why Lawyer for Texas Man accused a Strangling Pregnant Wife

Starting point is 00:27:50 insists she died from something else exclusive. Here's Grace reading a clip from that article. The attorney for a Texas man charged with capital murder and the death of his pregnant wife says she died from a pre-existing medical condition and was not strangled as authority. alleged. Lee Gilley, 39, whose trial was scheduled to begin in a matter of weeks, allegedly fled the U.S. for Italy in recent days ahead of his trial, according to state

Starting point is 00:28:21 and federal authorities. Gilly is accused of strangling his wife, Krista Gilly, 38, in October 2024, and then telling police she had taken her life through a drug overdose. She was pregnant with her third child at the time of her death. An official autopsy concluded she died due to compression of the neck and ruled her death a homicide. Gilly's attorney, Dick Degarian, claims Krista died of a pre-existing condition. Methemoglobinemia, a rare, potentially life-threatening blood disorder that affects hemoglobin, the protein that helps red blood cells deliver oxygen throughout the body. Degarin alleges Krista had almost died from the condition a year and a half before her death.

Starting point is 00:29:06 The problem with this People magazine, an exclusive story, which ran just days before its cover story on the gilly case, is that the journalist who wrote this failed to describe Krista's injuries that led the medical examiner to rule that she was strangled to death in a homicide. According to the district attorney's office, the medical examiner found that Krista had suffered significant trauma. She was covered in extensive bruises on her face, neck, shoulders, and upper. upper back. She had two black eyes, along with patechial hemorrhaging to her eyelids and chin,

Starting point is 00:29:49 meaning her breathing was so restricted it caused blood vessels in her face to burst. There was visible discoloration and swelling to her eyes and cheeks, an extensive bruising to the muscles and tissues in her upper back between her shoulder blades. And the big one that no No blood disorder could ever explain, her hyoid bone in her neck was fractured. The hyoid bone is not easy to break. It requires significant and direct force, typically from car accidents, physical assault, or sometimes sports injuries. It was a shame that People magazine did not include those facts in their coverage because

Starting point is 00:30:38 It gave weight to a theory that otherwise would be nearly impossible, in our opinions, to convince a jury in court. Because how does a blood disorder break a bone in Krista's neck? And if they say the old, he broke a bone while freaking out and trying to give her CPR, experts should be able to testify that breaking the hyoid bone is not common in CPR situations. No one is doing chest compressions with their hands around someone's neck. Also conveniently left out of the People magazine exclusive article that likely ended up gagging dick, LOLL. The prosecution has evidence of infidelity that they plan on using in court. They have that old Reddit post from a few months before Christa's death where Lee, allegedly, was disgustingly

Starting point is 00:31:37 soliciting college girls, specifically white college girls, to come to his office and hook up. They also have evidence of a previous affair from 2023. And the other problem with Dick's theory is that the prosecution seems to be ready to present evidence that Christa's near-death experience because of this transient blood condition is tied to Lee potentially trying to poison her. I know. And I said transient, because everything we have read about this condition

Starting point is 00:32:14 suggests that it's usually temporary and it goes away within hours or days. Let's not forget that Krista was pregnant at the time of her death. It seems unlikely that she was suffering from that condition. I'm sure this is something that we will hear more about when the case goes to trial, whenever that is.

Starting point is 00:32:34 Okay, so back to Italy. On Monday, May 13th, Lee Gilly appeared before a turn court of appeals judge at the Palace of Justice, according to several Italian news outlets. He was wearing a white t-shirt and jeans, and it appeared as though cameras were not allowed in the courtroom, and no one gave him the Amanda Knox treatment outside the courtroom. Lee Gilly, the man who failed at sneaking into the country, hired not one, but two female attorneys in Italy. Monica Grosso and Anna Musket to plead his case asking for international protection.

Starting point is 00:33:09 According to NBC news reporters Minivan Burke and Michelle Navaga, Gilly said no when he was asked if he wanted to be extradited to the United States. And then he declared his innocence before anyone asked him. I'll have David Reed what he said to the judge. My wife is dead and they wrongly blamed me. That's why I no longer have faith in the justice system. I am innocent. I did not kill my wife.

Starting point is 00:33:37 The only crime I committed was fleeing. I fled to avoid being killed. I went to great lengths to escape and seek protection in Italy. Okay, first, it's a real move to tell the court that the only crime you committed was fleeing when last time I checked anyway. It is also illegal to obtain and use false and forged passports. and I fled to avoid being killed, how dramatic can he be? And it's so hard to take seriously when Krista wasn't even given the opportunity to flee whatever happened to her that night. But you heard the other thing, right?

Starting point is 00:34:14 The sound of a good old boy sucking up to a system after he's run out of all his other options. I went to great lengths to be here. I mean, is he serious? According to reporting from La Republica, Flea Gillie told the judge that he specifically chose Italy for, his escape route. Yeah, he is basically love bombing an entire country's legal system, telling them that they are his chosen ones, the only ones who understand him, and that he came to them because of how special they are. Here's David reading what Lee said to the Italian judge.

Starting point is 00:34:49 To get a fair trial, for the principle of protection of the individual that you uphold here, I also looked at the quality of life and the culture, specifically its commitment to do process and the right to a fair trial. I chose Europe for its commitment to due process and Italy specifically because there is strong public opposition to the death penalty. He then thanked the judge in Italian twice. Grazie. Grazzi.

Starting point is 00:35:27 According to La Republica, this judge was expected to rule last week on where Gilly will be held in Italy while he awaits the bigger legal decisions about what Italy plans on doing with him, which could take months and even years. As far as we can tell right now, the judge has not ruled, though. Up through at least May 11th, which is the last we've heard from Italian media, and we have people there checking, Lee has been held in solitary confinement, but is asking to be released to an immigration holding facility called CPR in Turin, Italy. Lee's lawyer, Monica Grasso, says that she is asking for Lee to be transferred there to, quote, be able to adequately cultivate a hope of international protection, which is complicated to cultivate when one is in prison. And boy, oh boy, that is not the

Starting point is 00:36:26 least offensive thing Grasso said to the Italian media in the last few weeks. She said her, strategy to get Lee International Protection is to argue that not only is the death penalty inhumane, but so is a life sentence without parole. Grasso said that the European Court of Human Rights, recent ruling that was just made, again just last month, backs up this argument. Which she's right, and that is infuriating to us. Because y'all, Lee Gilli, is not the poster child for unfair treatment in the American justice system. He is just the guy who can afford to allegedly obtain and use forged or fraudulent passports and book two presumably one-way tickets out of the country. He is the guy who could afford to leave behind his whole life,

Starting point is 00:37:24 his business, his million-dollar home, and his Kia. And he should not be a catalyst for a forced American reckoning when it comes to our very broken penal code. He is not the test case here. Wrong guy. But ugh, remember the case that we told you about two weeks ago, the unicorn killer, who, like Lee, fled to Europe before his trial in the unicorn's case for the gruesome murder of his ex-girlfriend, whom he let rot in a trunk in his closet for 18 months. Well, it took decades to get this guy back and only after the state of Pennsylvania passed an act that they named after the murderer that allowed him to get a do-over for the one trial he missed. Call me paranoid, but we do not need a Lee-Gilly act. I'm not saying we don't need to fix our

Starting point is 00:38:22 system because, hello, that's actually all I'm saying all the time. It's just absolutely galling to me that Lee, an apparent fan of the Manist, and right-wing law and order tropes can essentially blackmail the justice system into ignoring the laws when it comes to just him for his case in this particular set of circumstances that he created. Because to get him back, that is what they're going to have to do. Texas is going to have to promise not to seek the death penalty against Lee,

Starting point is 00:38:59 which again, we'll talk about this. but prosecutors have never indicated that this will be a death penalty case. And that's not all. Texas is possibly going to have to take life without parole off the table too, which could mean literally dropping the capital murder charge against Lee and recharging him with, I want to say regular murder, but that's not right, with murder-murder, Because this is what a capital murder charge is. It is for murders, so egregious, that a man guilty of them deserves one of the two harshest punishments the system offers.

Starting point is 00:39:42 So what is this human rights court ruling that happened in April? Let's talk a little bit about that. The European Court of Human Rights has 46 member nations. Obviously, Italy is one of them. The death penalty has been banished in all 46 countries. which commendable. Texas, though it might feel like its own sovereign nation at times, is not in Europe and is not one of those nations.

Starting point is 00:40:07 In fact, of all the states in the United States of America, Texas is the one that feels the most set in its ways about the death penalty. Also, in 2013, the court ruled that life sentences without review are inhuman and degrading and therefore incompatible with Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights, compact. David, will you read that? Article 3 of the European Convention of Human Rights, as amended by protocols numbers 11, 14, and 15, supplemented by protocols numbers 1, 4, 6, 7, 12, 13, and 16. Prohibition of Torture. No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or

Starting point is 00:40:55 punishment. Oh, wow. Okay. That sounded like it was going to be a lot longer. So, yeah, that's Article 3. And the European Court of Human Rights ruled that life without parole is incompatible with it. That 15-word sentence is what is keeping Lee in Italy right now. The 2013 case wasn't the end of it either. In 2017, the issue came up again and the court clarified that life sentences were fine. There just needed to be a right to hope or a prospect of release and a clear and ongoing mechanism in place to review individual life sentences for the possibility of parole. And then there's the court ruling from last month. Seems like Hungary was doling out life sentences that included a mechanism for review, but not until 40 years into the sentence when it's mandatory for prisoners

Starting point is 00:41:48 to be considered for pardon, which I know it's not funny. But what a way to comply. But what a way to comply? with the law while not complying with it. Hungary argued that they were complying with the law because at any point in time, prisoners with life sentences could request a pardon, though those are not done through a court, they're done through the executive office, and they have rarely been given. The court ruled that Hungary was in violation of Article 3 and ordered them to pay each prisoner who was a plaintiff $295 plus legal fees and expenses, according to a courthouse news Service report. I think it's important to mention two things here. One is that this same report

Starting point is 00:42:28 mentions that Hungary has long had a habit of disregarding the Human Rights Court. And two, is that this ruling isn't final. Hungary has three months to appeal it. But there you have it. Vizun Gilli, O'Lflii, putting the United States in a position of having to change the rules for him, forcing Texas to abide by the laws of a governing body that has no jurisdiction. within the United States, just so justice can be served. And I mean, we can argue all day long about the core question of whether life without parole is unethical. That is not an argument that should apply here. The question is whether a man like Lee Gilley should be rewarded for playing costly games

Starting point is 00:43:10 with the American justice system. If he is guilty of murder, then he committed that crime under the laws of Texas, not Italy. So, good luck to Monica Grossow in her effort to mess with Texas on behalf of this man. And we'll be right back. Anyway, after the hearing, Grosso spoke with reporters in an on-camera interview that was published on La Republica. Thankfully, after Lee arrived in Italy, we connected with an amazing listener named Marta from Milan. Oh, and I should note that Marta has her own podcast.

Starting point is 00:43:55 It's called Reset Stories, and you can listen to it by finding the link in our episode description. And Marta was nice enough to transcribe the entire interview for us, which contains some shocking details. I'll have David read the questions from the journalist from La Republica, while Grace Hills will read Attorney Monica Grosso's answers. He said he wants to live here and be tried here? Yes, he said exactly this. In a way, he would like to be, quote, adopted by Italy? He's asking Italy a sort of protection because he believes that in the U.S. he was subject to a media campaign that would have not allowed him to get a truly fair trial. And because of that, terrified, he left the country.

Starting point is 00:44:43 Lee Gilley is there for Italy Italians. He's ready to be adopted by you and you have several names you can choose from for him if you don't like the name Lee. Who needs help with their exposed spreadsheets, Italy? Okay, sure. He wanted you to think that he was a Belgian man named Lejeune, and he didn't want you to ever find out about the inconvenient murder accusations against him. The inconvenient accusations of famicide. But he loves the culture and the lifestyle in Italy, and he says he didn't do it.

Starting point is 00:45:17 Now, we checked a few Facebook pages for Turin and Milan News to see if Italians are showing me legally any love, and let me just read a few of the comments as a sidebar here. Sudden extradition. He had no mercy for his partner. Face the consequences. Extradition immediately. Our justice system sucks.

Starting point is 00:45:39 Are we going to take it? Send them back home. We don't need people like this. It's okay that Italy is against the death penalty, but this is an American affair. And he has planned everything. Coming here, knowing how Italy is against the capital penalty, I wouldn't risk a diplomatic arm for someone

Starting point is 00:45:55 who killed his pregnant wife. Oops, I'm going to have to insert an allegedly in there for your regats. Oh, and our favorite very Italian comment. Someone called the situation a beautiful boiling potato for the government. From the comments we read, most Italians following this story do not have sympathy for Lee, but oh wait, Lee has an excuse for that too. This lack of Italians lining up to adopt him is not Lee Gilley's fault. It's Mandy's in mind. His lawyer told the Italian press that Lee Gilley has been the subject of a media campaign, and I think you can hear the irony of my words there. But what? There was a campaign? No one told us. Here's grace with what the attorney said. Also, the thing that is happening in the U.S. and what we

Starting point is 00:46:45 wouldn't want to happen here is the media exposure. I have hope in journalists so that the court and possibly the commission can evaluate the best choices from a legislative, and moral standpoint, since the EU belongs to a culture that protects inviolable human rights. How could media exposure damage him? Because it damaged him in the U.S. When judges and commissions are under pressure, they don't work in a serene way. Media exposure damages everybody indistinctly, everybody who's on trial, not specifically him, because trials should be carried out in courtrooms, not elsewhere.

Starting point is 00:47:22 I confide in the sensitivity of Italian journalist on this matter. Um, is that a threat to journalists to back off this story? Because it certainly sounds like it. And media exposure damages everybody? Excuse me. But let's make something very clear. Before May 4th, when Lee Gilley decided to become flea-gilly, we were concerned way back then about the lack of

Starting point is 00:47:56 media coverage in the Gilly case. We were worried there wasn't enough pressure from the public to get prosecutors to care about this case like they should. And again, this is no shade to specific prosecutors. We are just speaking from experience that people usually step up their game when forced upon the big stage. Four weeks ago, there were only two recent articles on the internet about Lee Gilley's upcoming trial. That was even after the prosecution dropped its bombshell report accusing Lee of infidelity, calling his own child the F word

Starting point is 00:48:35 and potentially blaming Lee on poisoning Krista and a whole bunch of other shocking behaviors. While some big outlets, such as People, Inside Edition, and Fox News, covered this story way back when, in October 2024, they all. all seemed to lose steam and interest quickly and unfortunately soon after charges were filed. Aside from our reporting as the only investigative journalism podcast to cover this story, in all of its twist and turns from the beginning, the only consistent media exposure in this case,

Starting point is 00:49:13 was from the Houston Chronicle, a few local TV stations, and us. Now, Lee could be referring to the Justice for Krista Facebook page that was created by Krista's friends to remind the public and the powers that be that Krista was a person who was loved very much and is very much missed. Does that offend Lee? Does that make him feel persecuted that people love and miss his wife who died and that they're angry about it? Shouldn't flee Lee Lejeune the innocent be supportive of that and be thankful that people who love Krista are creating a visual legacy of her life so their children can feel close to their mother. I don't remember ever hearing Lee making a call for prosecutors to find the real killer for

Starting point is 00:49:58 Krista, by the way. But I do remember Lee's AI Slop website that someone on his team posted in February 2025 as part of a freely campaign claiming his innocence and his stellar status as a father and imploring visitors to take action because of a great injustice that. was being done to him. And like we've told you all before, this website was something else, starting with the home page titled Lee Gilley, a husband and father, wrongfully accused, with AI illustrations of various scenes of an illustrated father with his illustrated children, above the words, real life, happening now, not a documentary. And carrying through to Lee's about page, which was titled, Meet Lee, a man of positivity, where paragraph one talks about

Starting point is 00:50:47 his love of France and speaking French. What really gets us, though, is the list under what to know, which is where the big argument is made for his innocence. The list has six items on it, and none of them say he didn't do it. Number one was no physical evidence. Number two was no motive. Oopsie. This came out before the state made his allegedly adulterous past public. Number three was polygraph innocence. He's referring to the polygraph he paid for. Number four, impeccable record. Number five was impact on his children. And number six was community support, which should be interesting. Okay. So Lee has accused the media of having a campaign against him. So I want to break this down real quick, especially for you defense

Starting point is 00:51:39 attorneys and paralegals currently being paid to listen and take notes on everything we say in our episodes so that you can use it against us in some way in the future. I want you to lean into the speaker. Like, make your ear touch the speaker. You ready? We work to hold public officials accountable so they do their jobs. There's no media campaign.

Starting point is 00:52:01 We do this so they won't crumble under the pressure of corruption and graft and internal pressures forcing them to look the other way. Which happens. If you don't believe us, go read up on Jeffrey Epstein's original plea deal in Florida. We don't think money should be able to buy someone out of criminal accountability. Ensuring transparency and calling for justice is not trying to influence juries.

Starting point is 00:52:24 It is called sunlight. Wait, wait, I'm not done. Put your ears back, you defense attorneys and paralegals currently being paid to listen and take notes. It's you and your clients who use the media to try and influence juries. It's you. And gosh, do you hate when we point that out? And gosh, do some of your clients get themselves into some real dirty hot dog water doing so? So, try again, Mr. Blah, Blah, Blah, Olivier.

Starting point is 00:52:53 Again, the irony of Monica Grosso going to the press, to the press, and entertaining in-depth on-camera interviews while complaining about the press, is honestly just too much for me to handle right now. Who was quoted in the People magazine article again? Right, Dick DeGarron. Seems like a real trend there. Okay. So, the big question is what happens next.

Starting point is 00:53:16 Let's see what old Grosso says about that. Again, David, will you read for the journalist? And Grace, will you read for Monica Grosso? What are the legal steps after today's hearing? The request for extradition from the U.S. Department of Justice. So far, there wasn't enough time for that to happen, but there is no doubt that it will happen. And then there will be the actual procedure for extradition. That is a complex procedure.

Starting point is 00:53:43 This is only the execution of a temporary arrest while we wait for the request of the extradition of the American citizen. So, what's the hold up, America? Don't you want your boy back? The one who humiliated the state of Texas and old Governor Abbott's bond reformed dreams? We called the U.S. Department of State to ask about the status of Lee's extradition. While they wouldn't comment on Lee's case specifically, they said the time it takes for an extradition request to be made. by them, depends entirely on the prosecutor at the Department of Justice, which is where the process starts. It's not clear what Lee's attorney meant by there wasn't enough time for the DOJ to request

Starting point is 00:54:24 extradition, but it's likely she is referring to the time it generally takes for this process to kickstart. The United States has a treaty with Italy that was agreed to in 1983, unamended in 2006, and Monica Gross was right. It's complex, at least insofar as paperwork is. is concerned. Meaning, our guy can't just call their guy and be like, send them back perfor-vore. Let's start with Article 9 of the agreement. David, can you read that? Where the offense, for which extradition is sought, is punishable by death under the laws in the requesting party, and not punishable by death under the laws in the requested party, the requested party may grant extradition on the condition that the death penalty shall not be imposed on the person sought,

Starting point is 00:55:15 or if for procedural reasons such condition cannot be complied with by the requesting party on condition that the death penalty, if imposed, shall not be carried out. If the requesting party accepts extradition subject to conditions pursuant to this article, It shall comply with the conditions. And if the requesting party does not accept the conditions, the request for extradition may be denied. Okay, that's what that looks like. Word for word. David, will you read Article 10 of paragraph 1?

Starting point is 00:55:53 Request for extradition and supporting documents shall be transmitted through the diplomatic channel. Well, that's interesting. Let's keep talking about the documentation and then I'll tell you why I just said that. So the Americans will have to provide everything to the Italians in both English and in Italian. The Americans, the requesting party, have to send a physical description of Lee, photographs of him and fingerprints, along with other documents and statements that confirm his identity and why we think he's Lejeune, Jean-Luc Olivier. Now, according to testimony from Lee's brother Matt last week, Lee has changed his appearance. So this is going to be interesting. Stick a pin in that. The Americans have to provide the Italians with a statement of facts of the case and a copy of

Starting point is 00:56:42 the laws related to capital murder, including the sentencing guidelines and the time limit on the prosecution. That might explain why the Harris County District Attorney's Office hasn't postponed Lee's upcoming trial date yet. The time crunch might help expedite matters. Maybe. I mean, I'm hearing myself sound hopeful, so probably I'm wrong about that. Okay, other things the Americans have to provide to the Italians, a certified copy of the arrest warrant, a summary of the facts of the case, and the relevant evidence of the conclusions reached. The way it's worded in the treaty is, quote, a reasonable basis to believe that the person sought committed the offense for which extradition is requested.

Starting point is 00:57:23 That summary needs to be written by a prosecutor and include a copy of the charge. David, can you read paragraph 8 of Article 10 from the treaty? If the person whose extradition is sought is held under provisional arrest by the requested party, the requesting party may satisfy its obligation to transmit its request for extradition and supporting documents through the diplomatic channel pursuant to paragraph one of this article by submitting the request and documents to the embassy of the requested party located in the requesting party. In that case, the date of receipt of such request by the embassy shall be considered to be the date of receipt by the requested party for purposes of applying the time limit that must be met under Article 12 of this treaty to enable the person's continued detention. Well, uh-oh, for two reasons. Let's start with the first. David, Article 12, paragraph 4. Provisional arrest shall be terminated if, within a case.

Starting point is 00:58:27 a period of 45 days after the apprehension for the person sought, the executive authority of the requested party has not received a formal request for extradition and the supporting documents required by Article 10. So today is Thursday, May 21st, which means it's been almost three weeks since Lee Gilley was arrested by Italian authorities. It is not clear if his arrest in Milan starts the 45-day clock or if the clock starts with the judge's decision about where to hold Lee Gilley and whether he should be held in criminal custody or at an immigration-slash-asylum detention center, which is when Lee's fight against extradition formally begins. But there is a time limit there.

Starting point is 00:59:17 If the Americans go over the 45 days to make their formal request, Lee gets released, But it doesn't prohibit the Americans from making a formal extradition request after that. The second, uh-oh is. Let's talk about the diplomatic channels. According to the treaty, the Americans can simply bring their paperwork to the Italian embassy in the United States, which, great. That makes it easy, I guess. But guess who the American ambassador to Italy is?

Starting point is 00:59:52 A billionaire. named Tillman J. Furtita. David, will you read Tillman's bio from his website? Tillman Fertita is the sole owner and CEO of Fertita Entertainment Inc., which owns the Restaurant Giant Landry's Inc., the Houston Rockets, and the Golden Nugget Hotel and Casinos. He is a reality TV star, New York Times best-selling author, speaker, frequent guests on popular TV business networks,

Starting point is 01:00:23 and is recognized as a world leader in the dining, hospitality, entertainment, and gaming industries. Yep, he said billionaire. And we should say, Houston billionaire. What are some of Tillman's latest projects per his websites, David? Orash and Soho, New York City, Mastro's Steakhouse in Irvine, California, Catch, Scottsdale in Scottsdale, Arizona, The 86 in New York, Saltgrass Steakhouse in Dallas, Mastro's Steakhouse in San Diego, Ambassador of Italy in Washington, D.C., rockets Gala in Houston, San Luis Salute in Galveston, Texas.

Starting point is 01:01:09 Houston Rockets are in the playoffs in Houston. Houston Children's Charity in Houston, Houston Police Foundation, Blue Gala in Houston, Mastro's Steakhouse in Beverly Hills, Mastro's Steakhouse in Columbus, Ohio, the Post Oak Hotel, Catch Dallas in Dallas, the corner store in Soho, New York City, Saltgrass Steakhouse and Lake Tahoe, Houston Rockets Training Center at Memorial Herman, the hospital where Krista worked and where she was pronounced dead. Lotus dealership of the Woodlands for Tita Chevrolet in Houston, Catch in Miami Beach,

Starting point is 01:01:50 Oaks District in Houston, Mastro's Ocean Club in Miami, Dos Caminos in Charlotte, North Carolina, La Griglia in Houston, Bugatti dealership in Houston, the Fertita Center at the University of Houston, Willie G.E.'s in Houston, and the Tillman-Fertita Tactical Training Center in Houston. Okay, sorry, that was a lot, but I wanted y'all to get a real picture there. Half of the diplomatic channels that the Americans need to engage to get Lee back to Houston are through Ambassador Tillman Fertita, who seems very busy, to put mildly. Now, America being the land of contradictions, it is hard to guess at whether Ambassador Fertita's

Starting point is 01:02:43 Houston ties will help or hurt Lee. He seems to be pro-police, but does that translate to the police are right about everything. Or I know the police and they get things wrong. Or maybe his ties to Houston will have no bearing whatsoever. But if I were Krista's work friends at Memorial Herman, I know who I would be emailing over the weekend. And if you want to say your piece, his email is in the description. Oh, and one more thing from the treaty I want David to read.

Starting point is 01:03:18 Article 21, expenses. The requesting party shall pay the expenses related to the translation of documents and the transportation of the person sought. From the city where confined to the requesting party, the requested party shall pay all other expenses related to the provisional arrest, extradition request, and proceedings. Again, nice work, Lee. You are costing the taxpayers in two countries. Way to start your adoption campaign. And we'll be right back. Okay, so now back to that interview

Starting point is 01:04:06 with Lee's Italian attorney and La Republica. Is he going to ask for house arrest? He hasn't asked for house arrest because he doesn't have a domicile in Piedmont. Now we will evaluate with his family if there's a place for him to stay. Currently, he has no contacts in Italy. Italy was just a choice for requesting international protection. He has no logistic support, nor contacts in Italy, nor in Europe, even if his family lived in France, but that was over 25, 30 years ago.

Starting point is 01:04:38 So they don't have any contacts in Europe. He stated that he was never violent with his family. He stated that, and he told me that his father-in-law has confirmed that there never was any violence within his family. Is there a link with the Trump administration? Don't ask me about political matters, since it's not my job. I won't answer. I have no answers.

Starting point is 01:05:03 His arrival to Malpenza, was that flight for Italy, the first possible one? No, he chose Italy. How could he land here without being found out? You would have to ask that to the U.S. lawyers. This does not concern me, and I didn't ask him that. Is there a possibility that he might flee again? No, because he has no documents and no place to go. Maybe a place that his family can help him choose.

Starting point is 01:05:31 The only thing I can gather from the info in U.S. websites is that he has prepared this escape for one year. So it would also be difficult time-wise to prepare another escape. Um, Monica, he didn't have documents to travel with before either. He allegedly obtained in use fraudulent or forged documents to get to Italy. He still managed to create this mess with his passport locked away somewhere in Harris County's courthouse. The idea that he's too busy to prepare a second getaway is hilarious, though. Not hilarious is Monica Gross's statement about Lee never being violent, which sure, might be true. But she's citing Lee as her source on that, which, come on.

Starting point is 01:06:11 And it doesn't matter anyway. Whether Lee was violent with Krista before her death does not change the fact that prosecutors believe evidence shows that Lee killed Krista that night. Which brings us to the Italians and their views on Femicide, or the intentional killing of women and girls with a gender-based motive. Lee should have done a bit more research during that year he spent planning his fugitive future because in November, the Italian parliament passed a law that specifically criminalizes the murder of women and makes it punishable by, oh my God, really? Life in prison. They passed the law on International Day for the elimination of violence against women, and the law includes strong punishment for stalking, non-consensual intimate imagery abuse, and image-based sexual abuse.

Starting point is 01:07:01 Li Jun, Jean-Luc, really put himself in the belly of the beast there, huh? Susan Waite, with the health policy partnership in the UK, wrote about Italy's new law and why calling it them aside is important. I want to read a passage to you from her blog. Quote, one of the Italian judges, a leading architect of the Femmicide Law, made the point of how important it was to strip these crimes from any romanticized or dramatic language, calling them acts of passion or acts of madness driven by extreme jealousy only belittles the seriousness of the crimes. It follows that tackling Femmicide requires a cross-cutting, comprehensive approach, focusing on primary prevention, changing social norms, and engaging whole communities to create

Starting point is 01:07:48 zero tolerance for violence against women. It is also important to recognize the role of social media in encouraging denigrating portrayals of women. So let's not forget that Lee Gilley appears to have been a fan of the Manosphere. And I'm going to give you a few examples of what we found. Right around the time of Krista's death, Lee Gilli liked a post on LinkedIn from a guy named Harrison Schnank, who is a social media influencer, apparently. Specifically, he has an Instagram account called Save Our Sons. The post said, quote, Some things in life are non-negotiable.

Starting point is 01:08:23 Dinner as a family is one of those things. Now, that in and of itself is not anti-women, but in the context of the broader things that Lee appeared to have been into, a few months before that, Lee had commented on this post from some loser named Dirk Roder. Here's what Dirk wrote. Unpopular opinion. The greatest trick the money printer ever pulled is feminism and equality. The trick goes like this. For centuries, women were dependent on the goodwill of men.

Starting point is 01:08:51 Therefore, women labor must be activated slash enabled, and by doing so, independence will rain down on women. The results are women are now dependent on their bosses instead of their husbands. The burden of making a living is now shared equally, because the middle-class family requires a double income to call itself middle-class. Bottom line, 100% dependent and compliant citizens instead of 50%. Then he wrote, important side note, nowhere do I say or state that women shouldn't enjoy equal rights. That's not the point in this post. And he ended that with a jolly exclamation mark.

Starting point is 01:09:27 And Lee commented, quote, very nice and simple breakdown. You got my follow. Then he put a fist pump emoji, which is unsurprising. So two more things before we go. First, the core issue here is that Lee is claiming he will be killed if he's returned to the United States, which, again, this wasn't his plan A. His plan A was being Belgian. Seeking asylum is his emergency backup plan that he either made up on the spot or was prepared to deploy. Either way, it's not exactly true.

Starting point is 01:10:00 It's true enough for extradition treaty purposes, but like we keep saying, prosecutors never told Lee, as far as we know, whether they plan to seek the death penalty. against him, which is total garbage. Why don't we, the public, know the answer to that question, mere weeks before this man's trial is scheduled to begin. It's in the community's best interest to know if and when the state is planning to try someone and punish them to death. And I get it, the process is different with capital murder. It's a two-part trial.

Starting point is 01:10:28 First, the jury determines whether Lee killed Krista. Then, if they find him guilty, they decide whether this should be punishable by death or life in prison without parole. but is the prosecution advocating for death? Doesn't seem like it, right? Seems like saying this on the record would help take some of the wind out of Lee's asylum sales, no? I mean, we're not lawyers and we're not part of any so-called media campaign, but we do know how media works.

Starting point is 01:10:55 Right now, it doesn't look like Lee is fooling anyone in Italy beyond his two attorneys, but still, a little transparency would have gone a long way here. Actually, a short way. It might have kept Lejeune from claiming asylum. It might have put Lee on the next plane back to Houston. And second, and this is a big little reminder of just how cruel, and unfair, the legal system is. Mandy?

Starting point is 01:11:20 So, last week, families for both Krista and Lee appeared in family court for a continuing custody battle that has been going on since Krista's death. For no clear reason, Harris County Family Court judge, Angela Lincelli ruled that Krista's children and parents must relocate back to Houston, Texas. A year after the same judge's order allowed for Christa's parents to move the children to South Carolina with them, where they have a business, a community, and lots of support. For several months after the trial, the Bowers were forced by court order to relocate to Texas to take care of Christ's two. just two young children.

Starting point is 01:12:08 Here is what Krista's friends said about this on the Justice for Krista page. Quote, by court order, they endured the unimaginable, raising two grieving toddlers while living in the home where their daughter was killed, while managing their businesses from halfway across the country. One year ago, the judge answered our prayers and allowed the Bowers to return home to South Carolina with their children. Since then, the children have found stability, healing, and a sense of home. They now live down the street from their cousins, attend wonderful schools, participate in activities,

Starting point is 01:12:46 and go to the same church where their mother was raised. They visit her grave every week. They are surrounded every day by extended family and a community that loves them deeply. They have established friendships, routines, counseling, medical care, and the consistency every child deserves, especially after enduring unthinkable trauma and loss. And again, that was from the Justice for Krista Page. Now, after Lee's escape to Italy, Christa's parents, who were ordered to share custody with Lee's sister-in-law in North Carolina, for some reason, asked the court to suspend the

Starting point is 01:13:25 aunt's visits in fear of Lee somehow getting the children to Europe, according to an article in the Houston Chronicle, and I encourage you all to click the link in the description and subscribe. This is where we should note that according to reporting from ABC 13 in Houston, Lee's brother Matt testified over Zoom at the emergency custody hearing. Matt, according to the report, told the court that he himself has hired a criminal defense attorney but denies helping Lee escape the country. According to the report, investigators came to Matt's health. in North Carolina to question him. He said the last time he spoke with Lee was on the same day that Lee cut his GPS ankle monitor off and Lee strangely texted him, quote, give hugs

Starting point is 01:14:14 to the kids. Also, according to that report, Lee has gained weight, grown a beard, and apparently grew out his hair. The judge said that she has found no evidence of the Gilly family helping leafly to Italy, but if she sees evidence of collusion, she will hold another hearing, according to the Houston Chronicle. So, Family Court Judge Lanselin told the Bowers she, quote, can't control adult behavior, and she issued a temporary order that forces Christ's parents and the children back to Houston, which again feels unspeakably cruel and extremely lacking in common sense. Christa's friends on the Justice for Christa page, which y'all should follow, said, quote, this decision would uproot them from a loving and stable environment and force them into yet another life-altering transition,

Starting point is 01:15:14 while extradition and asylum proceedings involving we continue overseas. We are devastated. After everything these children have lost, we cannot understand how removing them from the only true sense of stability they have known since their mother's death could possibly be in their best interest. These children deserve continuity. They deserve healing. They deserve to remain where they are safe, supported, and surrounded by love. This decision of forcing the Bauer family to move back to Houston was temporary and a final decision will be made on Friday, May 22nd. Krista's loved ones are asking for prayers, support, and voices in the meantime, but they ask

Starting point is 01:16:03 that no one directly contacts Harris County Family Court directly. With this recent development, the Bowers are facing another monumental legal battle, and I encourage everyone who can to donate to the GoFundMe in the link in the description. Until next time, stay tuned, stay pesky, and stay in the sunlight. True Sunlight is a Luna Shark production created by me, Mandy Matney, co-hosted and reported by journalist Liz Farrell, research support provided by Beth Braden, audio production support provided by Jamie Hoffman and Grace Hills,

Starting point is 01:16:52 case file management provided by Kate Thomas. Learn more about our mission and membership at LunaSharkmedia.com. Interruptions provided by Luna and Joe Pesky. Thank you so much for supporting our mission to give voice to victims by watching Hulu's Murdoch death in the family. We have been hard at work for weeks curating Soak Up the Sun premium content to go with each of the eight episodes. We are so excited to share the behind-the-scenes photos from the show, maps, more audio, timelines, case files, and the original source material that inspired the writers and directors for Hulu's original series. all for our Soak Up the Sun members on Luna Shark Premium.

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Murdaugh Murders Podcast - TSP #149 [Part One] - Will Accused Murderer Lee Gilley Actually Get Asylum After Creating An International Diplomatic Debacle In Italy?

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