Murdaugh Murders Podcast - TSP #157 [Part One] - 'Flee' Gilley Extends His Stay in Italy + The Strange Tale of a Mass Squatter

Starting point is 00:00:00 Thank you so much for supporting our mission to give voice to victims by watching Hulu's Murdoch death in the family. We have been hard at work for weeks curating Soak Up the Sun premium content to go with each of the eight episodes. We are so excited to share the behind-the-scenes photos from the show, maps, more audio, timelines, case files, and the original source material that inspired the writers and directors for Hulu's original series. All for our Soak Up the Sun members on Luna Shark Premium. Use your Supercast login to get access to the full experience. That means ad-free, plus extended episodes, bonus drops, exclusive case files, live streams, access to our exclusive members-only shows like Girl Talk, Corruption Watch List,

Starting point is 00:00:46 premium dives, and more. Plus, curated behind-the-scenes coverage of the Hulu series. Join our mission and become a member today at LunaShark.supercast or click the link in the description. I don't know how I'm still doing this right now. But corruption doesn't expose itself. So today, we need to talk about the Lee Gilly case. My name is Mandy Matney.

Starting point is 00:01:20 This is True Sunlight, a podcast exposing crime and corruption, previously known as the Murdoch Murders podcast. True Sunlight is a Luna Shark production written with journalist Liz Pharrell. When people ask me how I'm doing, I don't know how to answer. It's been 10 days since Judge R. Keith Kelly filed his unprecedented contempt of court order against me. It's been 10 days since Judge R. Keith Kelly ordered me, a journalist, to pay billionaire Greg Parker $171,500 for his legal fees related to a deposition that his team refused to move for the sake of my safety.

Starting point is 00:02:08 A deposition that I always believed was to harass me and intended for retribution related to the fact that Greg Parker and his two attorneys, Deborah Barbier and Mark Moore, apparently wanted revenge for our newsworthy reporting about them and their clients dating back to the Murdoch Murders podcast. It always goes back to Murdoch in this South Carolina justice system, doesn't it? Years ago, I never understood why so many people said that I was brave for calling this system for what it was corrupt. But now I get it.

Starting point is 00:02:44 I always knew that the system was rotten to a variety of people from a variety of backgrounds. It fails people all the time. I have spent a good portion of my career trying to make the system better for those that it fails. Women, people of color, people without means. I just assume that a lot of those against me had some sort of respect for the law and that their respect for their sworn duties would outweigh their hatred of people like me, like my reporting and the truths that we expose on this podcast. I could not have imagined that they would risk their reputations in the sunlight

Starting point is 00:03:25 as members of the bar to throw me and constitutional protections under the bus in seeking my destruction. Part of me thought, okay, maybe Judge Kelly will find me in contempt, but assigned fees that would be reasonable like the law says, and reasonable like I've seen in the past. For the court reporter, maybe some travel and maybe time related to the failed deposition. A couple grand. A couple grand, we could stomach and we would move on. Not the still secret invoices that are apparently 310 times the fine for obstruction. of justice in this state, not fees that are 620 times the fine for simple assault in the state of South Carolina. And that's the gross amount those attorneys demanded without providing me or the public

Starting point is 00:04:19 details on how they reached those astronomical sums. But that was my biggest mistake all along, thinking that the law would apply equally to me as it does to people that don't even live here. the names Greg Parker and Greg Roman come to mind. Neither fight for South Carolina or live here, but both seem to get deference from its judicial system. If the law applied equally to me, I would have been able to see exactly how Deborah Barbier,

Starting point is 00:04:49 Mark Moore, and Jim Bannister's law firms managed to burn through $310,000 on a few motions related to a deposition. And it turns out, That unjust number just gets worse. On Tuesday, my new attorney Tristan Schaefer from Johnny McCoy's law firm Axelrod, y'all will love him, asked that Judge R. Keith Kelly hold the order in advance while we filed the motion to reconsider and wait for his decision.

Starting point is 00:05:18 And Judge Arkeith Kelly denied that too. So not only am I not allowed to see how Greg Parker's attorneys allegedly accrued $310,000, or how the 44.7% quote unquote discount Judge Kelly ordered was figured out. Like why the discount? What did they apply that to? While I exercised my rights to fight the order and preserve my right to appeal, that judgment may be accumulating interest until it gets to the appeals process at 10.75% compounded annually. And that interest clock continues to tick.

Starting point is 00:06:01 Tick, tick, tick. But here's some good news. I'm really excited to announce my growing legal team one by one because each is a superstar deserving of center stage. In the world of defense attorneys, there's no one I'd rather have on my team than Tristan Schaefer. He's cool, calm, collected, an expert tactician and 15-year veteran of courtroom trenches.

Starting point is 00:06:25 He's a shareholder at Axelrod and Associates and fought his way from the public defender's office to the highest courts in South Carolina, leaving a trail of successful defenses and appeals in his wake. Schaefer isn't just a lawyer. He's the last line of defense between his clients and injustice itself, and I am so happy to have him on our side, and that is the side of truth, of justice and the Constitution. In all seriousness, this persecution is jaw-drawn. It's eye-opening. It is terrifying. I no longer feel safe in a state that would rather protect a lawyer's ego than a woman's safety. These people have communicated directly that they side with dangerous people. That is terrifying.

Starting point is 00:07:12 This whole situation has left us breathless. And the only thing keeping us going in this fight is all of you right now. So, again, I want to say thank you to every single person, single person who has donated to the legal fund linked in the description. Thank you to every single person who joined LinneShark Premium on Patreon and supported our reporting on Supercast. In the last week, and always. Thank you to every person who shared my story on social media and showed their support and kind comments and messages.

Starting point is 00:07:46 I've been disgusted and horrified by the things that have been said about me on the internet in the last week. But I'm not going back to that dark place where I was four years ago, and I have all of you to thank for that. No words seem to be good enough right now, but I will start with thank you. I am fighting a lot of feelings right now, but gratitude is winning. I am grateful to all of you reminding me every day that there are a ton of good people in this world. And I am motivated, now more than ever, to fight to change the system for the better. and continue shining light on the darkest corners. We appreciate every single person who sees this injustice as a threat to justice everywhere.

Starting point is 00:08:33 If you or someone you know is affiliated with any national advocacy groups who could help us, we would love to learn more about how you can help in our fight to re-secure constitutionally protected rights, like the right to free speech, freedom of the press, the right to do process, and the freedom from cruel and unusual punishment and excessive fines. We know certain individuals are committed to destroying my ability to defend myself, but we are honored by the hundreds of messages that we receive of support. We embrace the thousands of listeners from all around the world who support our mission at Lunashark as Lunashark Premium members on Patreon and on Supercast.

Starting point is 00:09:20 We are overwhelmed for the outside. outpouring of financial support on Argo FundMe that directly funds my personal legal expenses, a fundraiser that we created from all the requests to do so. It is a testament to how many believe in our mission to expose the truth wherever it leads, give a voice to victims, and get the story straight. Now at tremendous cost and risk. And speaking of our mission, we have to talk about the Lee Gilley case today. In every case we do, we always end up having this mental wish list going on for pieces of the investigation that are impossible to get.

Starting point is 00:10:04 Or nearly impossible to get. Never say never, right? Or rather, never say never if you're not a shady journalist. You should probably say never when the county clerk of court is letting you take photos of sealed evidence in the Murdoch case after hours at the courthouse, for instance. And you decide to share those photos of Maggie's and Paul's bodies with your employee who you are super, super close with. And she decides to send those photos to a random person in Florida that she met on the internet. Definitely, you should say, never to all of that. But keep those wish lists. On ours, we have things like Alec Murdoch's phone calls to Jim Griffin's office.

Starting point is 00:10:47 You might remember that the jailhouse call stopped after we foiled for the recordings in 2021. Suddenly he was only calling Jim's office. So was Jim facilitating three-way calls for him? That's a question that's never been answered as far as we know. So what's up, Sledd? What's up Department of Corrections? What's up Richmond County Jail? What's up Alan Wilson's office?

Starting point is 00:11:12 In the Scott Spivey shooting case, we would love to see the alleged video that Weldon Boyd allegedly took of the shooting. Weldon says it doesn't exist and that it never existed. But there's also evidence that makes that very hard to believe. With the Lee Gilley case, give us all of his search histories and conversations with AI bots. We want to see what that man was looking up before he fled the country. You remember Lee, right?

Starting point is 00:11:39 With everything going on in the Greg Parker case and with his attorneys, we haven't had a chance to catch you all up on what's been happening in his case. So let's do a quick recap. Liam Mongerson Gilley was arrested on October 11, 2024, 24. and charged in the October 7th, 2024, murder of his wife, Krista Bauer. In their one floor, Houston Heights home in Texas. Krista was nine weeks pregnant at the time of her killing, which is why Lee was charged with capital murder. The most serious murder charge there is in Texas.

Starting point is 00:12:12 That charge carries the death penalty or life in prison as potential sentences. Again, he was charged with that because he was accused of killing his wife and their unborn child. So stick a pin in that one. Originally, Lee had told investigators that Krista had killed herself by overdosing on drugs. Yes, he is one of those. That lie did not last long, though, and he had to take that back altogether after the medical examiner determined that Krista did not die of an overdose. She died as a result of somebody strangling her to death. Lee continues to deny killing Krista, and now he is maintaining that she died because of of a pre-existing medical condition.

Starting point is 00:12:54 What medical condition leaves marks around your neck and two bruises on your back right around where a person's knees might go were they to, I don't know, pin you down from behind? Exactly. Oh, and Lee admitted to having argued with Krista that evening because he went and purchased a Kia telluride without telling her, and I almost forgot.

Starting point is 00:13:16 I mentioned that she was killed in their one floor home because their two small kids were there. while their mother and unborn sibling were murdered in the same house on the same floor. Both Lee and Krista were from South Carolina and graduated from Clemson University. From where we sit, it looks like Krista was a go-getter and Lee was not. Krista was a physical therapist who helped patients rehabilitate from cardiovascular and long complications and she was super involved in the Clemson alumni group in Houston. Lee had his own Excel spreadsheet business.

Starting point is 00:13:58 Yeah. And he was apparently cheating on Krista at the time of her death, according to filings from the Harris County District Attorney's Office. Also, he seemed like a giant mama's boy. If you want to dive deeper into this case, check out the description for this episode for a link to our Lee Gilley episodes, including the one where we talk. about the absolutely delulu AI slop of a website that someone close to Lee published in 2025 in an

Starting point is 00:14:26 attempt to get the public to see him as a great dad and an innocent man. It was immediately taken down when Luna Shark reporter Beth Braining called Lee's lawyer Dick DeGaron for comment on it. We've seen a lot of bizarre things in this line of work. Hello, I like Murdoch's roadside shooting. Hello, Russell Lefeet's Russell TV. Hello, JP, Miller, dressed up as Spider-Man and driving a Delorian. Hello, Weldon Boyd being Weldon Boyd. This website is on par with all of that. Anyway, the court allowed Lee to post a million-dollar bond to remain free while awaiting

Starting point is 00:15:05 trial, because he is a good boy. At the time, we were super outraged by that because we read Lee as being again a mama's boy, which is really to say a rich and enabled boy who didn't become a man, but rather grew up to be a petulant man-child who doesn't seem to think the rules applied to him. Gee, if we had a dollar for every time we've been right about guys like Lee, we could afford to pay Greg Parker's Mark Moors and Debbie Barbier's tuition at the Villain Academy where they've apparently been taking night classes at. Relax, Mabby.

Starting point is 00:15:41 And Greg, it's a joke. Also, don't you need to go study or something? Stop listening to our show. God, I have so much PTSD from those people, that all I can hear is Miss Farrell. You suggested that Mr. Parker, Ms. Barbier, and I went to villain school in episode 157. What did you mean by that? Back to Lee. Shortly after he was led out on Bond, he continued to follow the good old boy script and hired a high profile and presumably very expensive attorney, Dick DeGarron, who is best known. perhaps were representing cult leader David Koresh. During negotiations in the 1993 Waco standoff, Degarin was reportedly hired by Koresh's mother, which is interesting, right? And if you're too

Starting point is 00:16:27 young to know how Waco ended, I will save you the Google search. It ended badly, y'all. It ended so very terribly. Oh, and Dick Degarin represented Robert Durst, the murdering real estate air who agreed to film a documentary about what he seemed to think was going to be about his innocence, but got caught on a hot mic confessing to his crimes. Like we said before, Degarin clearly attracts a type, and Lee Gilley found his place on that wall of weirdos. Okay, so while Lee was awaiting his trial, Lee's family put Christa's family through hell by fighting them for custody of Christa's two very young children. After a court battle, Christa's parents were granted permission, to take the children back to South Carolina, where they're surrounded by Christus family,

Starting point is 00:17:17 extended family and her friends, but stick a pin in that one, too, unfortunately. Lee's case was set to go to trial this past June. But, but on the evening of May 1st, according to court records, Lee is believed to have cut off his GPS ankle monitor before leaving Texas, and then the United States for Toronto, Canada. How did he get to Toronto? Great question. I do have a partial answer to that, and that's not by taking the Kia telluride he bought without telling Krista.

Starting point is 00:17:49 And we know that because we later saw photos of police seizing it as evidence after Lee did the flee. Anyway, once in Toronto, Lee, the now fugitive murder suspect, caught a flight to Milan, Italy. Then he tried to get through passport control, according to a criminal complaint from the United States government, using the name Lejeune Jean-Luc Olivier and a fake Belgian passport in an effort to escape his capital murder charge in Texas, which is working so far. But again, let's stick a pin in that. Now, we don't know why Lee chose Belgium as his new country of origin, or if he even had a choice in the matter. We have no idea how the fake passport industry works. But given that he was able to maintain a first name similar to his own, we have to imagine this was a made-to-order situation and that Belgium was the country that not only suited Lee's

Starting point is 00:18:46 needs, but where he could blend in. David, will you read a little from the culture trip article stereotypes about Belgium that people get wrong? Please y'all, picture Lee Gillie's face as David is reading these. There are no famous Belgians. Perhaps the most famous stereotype about Belgium is, is the fact that there are no famous Belgians. Or, to be more precise, that the only famous Belgians are fictional. Tin, Tin, the Smurfs, Hercule Poirot come to mind. But this simply isn't true. There are plenty of famous Belgians.

Starting point is 00:19:29 But most people tend to think they come from somewhere else, usually France to the Belgian's great annoyance. Culture Trip goes on to list about a dozen names, most of which we've never heard of. Keep on reading, David. Belgians are stupid. Most French and Dutch jokes about the Belgians come down to the same thing. Belgians are not very bright. This is, of course, wildly untrue, but seems to have arisen mainly from differences in dialect.

Starting point is 00:20:04 Oh, my goodness, I had no idea. Anything else, David? Belgians only drink beer. While Belgian beer is justifiably world famous for its diversity and quality, there are many other drinks the Belgians are good at making. Take Ginevere, for starters. The original has a slight taste of juniper to it, but it comes in hundreds of different flavors,

Starting point is 00:20:33 from cactus to chocolate and anything in different. between. Or why not have a rumor, a delightfully refreshing liquor that tastes of elder flour? Well, we know Lee seemed to like a brewery, so he must have been really excited to get to his new home country. One more, David. Brussels has no famous monuments. Paris has the Eiffel Tower, London has Big Ben, and Brussels has a tiny statue of a peeing bowl. and a building that represents an atom, magnified 165 billion times.

Starting point is 00:21:15 Interesting. Interesting. Have you all heard about the Schengen zone? We need to talk about that because knowing about it changes the mental picture of Lee Gilli trying to enter Italy as Lejeune Jean-Luc Le Vieux, the Belgian. The Schengen zone is meant to make travel among 29 European countries much easier. In the meantime, the rollout of this all-new digital passport control system has caused massive delays, especially for people traveling to a Schengen zone country from outside of Europe.

Starting point is 00:21:48 Passport control agents in Iceland were training for this when I went through the checkpoint last fall. But it began rolling out in earnest in April of this past year. And it's kind of involved. Basically, if you're not a passport-carrying citizen of a country within the Schengen zone or the EU, you will have to have your biometrics taken at the checkpoint, meaning a facial scan and fingerprints. So modern. And while they're doing that,

Starting point is 00:22:16 they ask you the regular passport control type questions of, why are you here, where are you staying, when are you leaving, where are you flying to next, that kind of thing. And I just got back from Paris and had to go through this again when flying there.

Starting point is 00:22:29 And frankly, it's annoying. It slows everything down and it's kind of chaotic. people inevitably do not follow directions and have to be told where to stand several times. It's just slow. Even if you're a people watcher like I am, that ain't it. Everyone, and especially me, is tired from their overnight flights and in no mode to be silly. There's no music playing.

Starting point is 00:22:52 It's just a lot of waiting. That said, imagine the mental rehearsal Lee Gillie was going through while awaiting his turn at the passport control booth. My name is Lee. Ugh, Lejeune. Lijune, Luke, oh no, Lejeune, John Luke, get it together, Lee. I mean, Lejeune. I am from Brussels. I was in Toronto for Excel spreadsheets and checking out some dating apps. I'm just kidding about that. I have no idea what he told them his reason for being in Toronto was. I often think about that moment when he finally reached the checkpoint booth and was told to give his fingerprints and smile for the facial recognition camera because, Gulp. And we'll be right back. The justice system can be intimidating, but it doesn't have to be. We all want to drink from the same cup of justice,

Starting point is 00:23:46 and it starts with learning about our legal system. My name is Mandy Matney, and together with journalist Liz Farrell and world-renowned attorney Eric Bland, we create the perfect trifecta of legal expertise, journalistic integrity, and a fire lit to expose the truth wherever it leads. We all encounter a part of a part of a lot.

Starting point is 00:24:05 our justice systems at one point. So why not get prepared while being entertained with tales from the newsroom and the courtroom? Cup of Justice has amazing special guests like Cheryl Crow, Vinipolitan, Emily D. Baker, and other experts to share their take on the bright side of the truth. Luna Shark Media invites you to gain knowledge, insight, and tools to hold your own or hold public agencies accountable. Search for Cup of Justice wherever you get your podcast or visit cupofjusticepod.com. Okay, so why was Lee and Milan?

Starting point is 00:24:49 Long answer is because he's a spoiled brat manchild who can't face accountability. And this is just the latest and a long line of nonsense from this guy. Short answer, he was trying to get to a country that would not send him back to the United States because he could be facing the death penalty. And like we said, it seems to be working so far. But also, he's not facing the death penalty, not technically. The charge includes the death penalty as a possible punishment, but if prosecutors were seeking the death penalty as punishment for Lee,

Starting point is 00:25:24 they would likely have already said so, and they never did. In fact, since his escape to Italy, Harris County prosecutors have said they will not seek the death penalty. Anyway, in episode 149, part one, we talked about Italy's extradition treaty with the United States, but we didn't talk about Belgium's, where Lee was presumably trying to go. Italy will give runners back to their countries of origins, but only if they receive a formal assurance that the country or state in this case will not seek the death penalty or life without parole for the runner.

Starting point is 00:26:03 Belgium's extradition treaty with the United States is similar to that of Italy's, but supposedly more strict, meaning they are less likely to give up a runner or a fleer, if you will, than Italy. But we'll do so with ironclad assurances that the prisoner won't be tortures or subjected to the death penalty. Obviously, ironclad is a subjective term, because remember when Dick Harputlian said that Ehrlich Murdoch had an ironclad alibi for the night of the murders. Yeah. Anyway, obviously Lee didn't make it to Belgium. Instead, he got waylaid in Italy, and I wonder if that made him at all nervous

Starting point is 00:26:44 given the country's stance on protecting the lives of fetuses. Also, Italy just passed a specific law against Femmicide in 2025 to address killings motivated by romantic rejection and the subjugation and domination of women. While that law might not exactly apply to what Lee has been accused of, it sure does give you a hint to where Italian legislators and courts are when it comes to violence against women. Despite his alleged plans getting disrupted in Milan, things have been working out pretty well for Lee, which is frustrating, and it's a hell of a thing because that means if

Starting point is 00:27:24 you have money, you can break the law and allegedly cut off your GPS angle monitor. You can cause your family to lose the million dollars they pledged to the court if you were to skip town. You can get a fake passport to a European country with a first name similar enough to your own so that when you inevitably mess up your own fake name, and you will because you're a moron, it won't sound like that big of a goof. And you can fly to a country that has an extradition treaty with the United States that has strong opinions against a debt penalty. and you can cause further disruption in your children's lives by causing so much chaos that resurrects the custody issue

Starting point is 00:28:05 and a judge orders them back to Texas to live there until the matter is settled. You can do all of that and it seems like no harm, no foul, because what has happened to Lee since he fled? Certainly not a murder trial, like what's supposed to happen. In May, Lee told the Italians that the only crime he is guilty of is fleeing, And even though I can help but picture Lee hiding behind the skirts of an Italian justice system like, those Americans, they're trying to kill me. I can also see that he's really actually hiding behind something much more powerful,

Starting point is 00:28:41 and that is the painfully slow American judicial bureaucracy. Because where is Lee, Texas? Why haven't y'all gotten your boy back? So first on Tuesday, Beth Braden called over to the Harris County District Attorney's Office for an update and was told they couldn't comment because of a gag order that Judge Peyton Peebles issued about a week after Lee skipped town that bars all parties from making extrajudicial statements to the media in this case, which apparently hasn't at all stopped old Dick DeGarren. And that makes this really difficult because it seems like all news of what's happening with Lee and Italy

Starting point is 00:29:21 seems to be coming through Degarin, which, you know, we need to take with a little bit. the Grand Assault. On Tuesday, DeGaron released a statement to Houston Public Media with an emailed update on where things stand with Lee and Italy. David, will you read that? As I understand it, the Italian court has asked the U.S. Department of Justice for clarification of the punishment options facing Mr. Gilly. That is, whether the only possible punishment, should he be convicted, is death or life in imprisoned without the possibility of parole. Texas law provides that upon conviction of capital murder, those are the only sentences. So yeah, we talked about this in episode 149. Things aren't as

Starting point is 00:30:12 simple as the Harris County District Attorney's Office assuring Lee slash Dick slash Italy that they won't seek the death penalty. Lease charge carries just two sentences and both of those sentences conflict with the United States' extradition treaty with Italy. Italy does not like the death penalty, and they don't like life without parole. Life sentences, according to Italy and other European countries, must include meaningful periodic reviews of a prisoner's status in consideration of release. There must be hope of release, basically. So what does that mean, right?

Starting point is 00:30:50 Again, we don't know because no one on the state side is talking to us, but It would seem to mean, based on the extradition trading itself and Dick de Garan's statement, that Texas is going to be forced to reduce the charge against Lee, which at this point, do it, man. Reduce the charge to murder. Murder carries a sentence of five to 99 years in prison. Seems super easy to me. Get it done.

Starting point is 00:31:16 I mean, it's annoying that Lee gets to call the shots on that, but you didn't keep close tabs on your boy, Texas. In fact, you gave him the... ability to do this by letting him out on a bond that apparently wasn't high enough to deter a full-on escape to Europe. And you didn't even seem to realize he was gone until you picked up the phone on Monday, May 4th and heard someone say, Achia, Bella, is this Leggillis prosecutor? So now it's not the time to dig in your spurs, Texas style and say, Italy doesn't get to tell us what to do.

Starting point is 00:31:48 Because, yes, they apparently do. And it seems like Texas is just not getting it. According to reporting from Click to Houston, Lee appeared in front of the court in Turin last week for a hearing about his extradition status. The United States has made a formal request for him to be extradited back to Texas. David, will you read what Click Two Houston reported about that request? In a sworn declaration to support the extradition request prepared by the U.S. Department of Justice and Harris County District Attorney's Office, prosecutors noted the penalty for capital murder in Texas is the death penalty, or life without parole, according to records,

Starting point is 00:32:31 and the DA's office indicated it had not sought the death penalty, so if convicted, Gilly would receive an automatic life without parole sentence. The records included a late June email from prosecutor Jana Oswald, to defense attorney Dick DeGaron indicating the DA's office would not file anything with the court in Texas, quote, saying that we are not seeking the death penalty or are waiving it. We do not do that in other cases, as you know, end quote. So the United States and Harris County were like, yeah, the penalty from capital murder is the death penalty or life without parole, the two sentences that prohibit extradition to the United

Starting point is 00:33:16 States. But we're not seeking the death penalty. So if a jury agrees that Lee killed Krista, then, you know, he'll automatically get life without parole, which you also don't apparently agree with. And predictably, Italy was like, huh? What? A no, no. Let's put a big pause on this extradition thing because you guys don't seem to be getting it. I mean, why would the United States and Harris County do that? Are they seeing what their chances are that the Italian courts would be like, you know, we did put all this in writing and we're pretty clear about what our standards were, but we're feeling kooky today.

Starting point is 00:33:51 why not? Yes, please, yes, come get Mr. Gilly. Why waste time like this? And also, what game is the Harris County District Attorney's Office playing? Because why would Jana Oswald send an email to Dick DeGarren in late June the month they were supposed to be going to trial on this case saying, we are not seeking the death penalty or are waiving it? We do not do that in other cases, as you know. I mean, kudos to the DA's office for wanting there to be one system of justice. We totally agree with that, but not in this case. You lost your defendant. Get them back.

Starting point is 00:34:30 Don't do the absolute opposite of that. According to Click to Houston, the Italian courts had a problem with that email. Quote, the wording of this communication suggests that the Harris County District Attorney's Office has not definitively waived pursuing a death sentence. Moreover, the previously cited sworn statement it only said the death penalty had not been sought, not that it could not be sought in the future.

Starting point is 00:34:56 Oh boy, they're on to you, Texas. But also, that email appears to have come from Dick DeGaron and given to the Italian court. So again, who is calling the shots here? According to Click 2 Houston, which I guess I should say, according to Dick Degarin, Italy has given the United States until August 31st to respond to their request for clarification. They want Harris, County to confirm that this email from Jana Oswald to Dick DeGaron is indeed authentic. They want to know how the United States will guarantee that Lee Gilley won't be punished by the death penalty if found guilty. And they want to know whether Texas will consider charging Lee with a less serious charge. Less serious, y'all. Again, we're right there with you, Texas. This is utter garbage. He is accused of killing.

Starting point is 00:35:49 his pregnant wife in Texas and still was able to get another country to intervene in how he is potentially punished for that. It is sickening and the height of man-child mama's boy privilege. According to reports, another hearing is scheduled for Lee in September, meaning Lee gets to spend even more time in a Turin-Italy prison cell. But still, I mean, what a weird case. you would think that a murder defendant cutting off his GPS monitor and being able to flee to two different countries before holding the Harris County Texas Justice System hostage would be the height of the drama. Beyond the murder itself and the fact that Krista was pregnant at the time, and the fact that he lied and said that she had killed herself,

Starting point is 00:36:39 in the fact that a brand-new Kia telluride is involved, in the fact that a medical examiner was like, not so fast Mr. Gilli, and the fact that he hired Robert Durst attorney, and the fact that his family fought Christ's family for custody of the children, and the fact that someone thought an AI slap website would be a good idea in proving his innocence, and the fact that shortly before his escape, the court had allowed Lee to travel home to South Carolina on his own to visit his dying mother, and the fact that it turns out he was apparently having an affair at the time.

Starting point is 00:37:18 of Christa's death and a fact that there's a question of whether he tried poisoning her at one point, leading to that pre-existing medical condition he and his attorneys say killed her. I mean, it is so much, yet it's not even the half of it. For real, this is turning into a serious Quentin Tarantino movie. Because while all this was going on, someone moved into Lee and Krista's million-dollar house in Houston Heights, changed the locks and installed security cameras, and is asserting his squatters' rights ownership over the place. Y'all, it is stupid, and if it didn't make me absolutely furious,

Starting point is 00:38:01 I don't think I would have it in me to even talk about it this week because I have such little capacity for nonsense right now, but what do you mean someone has basically stolen Krista Bauer's house? More on that, after a quick commercial break, and we'll be right back. in the art of living in choosing the pleasurable over the practical. It's why we crapped our premium vodka in France using pure spring water from Jenzac. And why you hear the celebratory pub of our quirk reminding us to make every martini cocktail count. So go on and make every moment count because there's no better time than now.

Starting point is 00:38:47 Gregoose make time wait. It's time we talk about Matthew Jackson, who is a literal podcast series in waiting. Like Lee, Matthew is 39 years old. Unlike Lee, he didn't flee to Toronto and then Italy when he was accused of a crime and facing prison time. So let me sort of give away the ending here. Matthew Jackson is a piece of work. I'm not kidding. According to court records, this is a guy who is used to be told no.

Starting point is 00:39:26 But every time he gets back up, dusts himself off, and asks again, and gets told no. He gets told no a lot, guys. In the federal court database, there are 13 cases related to Matthew Jackson. One is a bankruptcy claim from 2011. Six are related to a 2013 arrest in Bastrop County, Texas for aggravated robbery. He is the plaintiff in all of those cases. Three are appeals filed by him in those skewerp. cases. Two are cases he filed with the Texas Department of Criminal Justice in 2019 and in

Starting point is 00:40:03 2022, accusing Governor Greg Abbott and others of ignoring his multiple grievances while he was in prison. And one is a case he filed against the owners of a house. He says he has squatters' rights ownership over. But we'll get to that. On September 28, 2013, when he was 26 years old, Matthew Jackson, who was black, says he was walking in a Bastrop County, Texas, neighborhood when he was stopped by six police officers and questioned. He says they then arrested him without a warrant or probable cause, and he was charged with unauthorized use of a motor vehicle and a fading arrest and that his bond was set at $100,000. He says he was held for two years without trial, thereby depriving him of his right to a speedy trial. He also challenged the evidence

Starting point is 00:40:52 against him. There's an appellate memorandum filed in 2016 that I think sheds a lot of light on Matthew Jackson's spirit and his chaos. David, will you read the part in the memo about the procedural background? Jackson was indicted for aggravated robbery. Jackson pled not guilty. And upon Jackson's application, the trial court appointed Jackson counsel. While he was represented by appointed counsel, Jackson filed numerous pro se motions, including a motion to suppress, motions to set the case for trial, motions to dismiss with prejudice for the state's failure to prosecute, and motions for a speedy trial. The case proceeded to a jury trial, which convicted Jackson of aggravated robbery and sentenced him to seven years' confinement. Jackson appeals.

Starting point is 00:41:46 Jackson argues he, quote, was denied a speedy trial, end quote. The record contains numerous motions for a speedy trial, all filed by Jackson after he was appointed counsel. Counsel did not file or present a motion for speedy trial to the court, and the trial court did not consider or rule on any of Jackson's pro se motions for a speedy trial. Because a defendant has no right to hybrid representation. quote, a trial court is free to disregard any pro se motions presented by a defendant who was represented by counsel.

Starting point is 00:42:27 So Matthew Jackson had an attorney but also filed his own motions for a speedy trial because his attorney wasn't filing them. And because Jackson took matters into his own hands, the appellate court denied his appeal on those grounds, which is not funny, but totally hilarious. insofar as, again, it shows the spirit and chaos of this man, Matthew Jackson. Another not funny but hilarious thing about Matthew Jackson is that he sought to suppress evidence against him. See, this car that they say that he stole was found with him in it because an investigator used an app like Find My iPhone to find the victim's cell phone, which was

Starting point is 00:43:13 in the victim's stolen car. David, will you read that part? Jackson argues the trial court erred by admitting Officer Michael Lang's testimony explaining how authorities located Jackson after he stole the victim's car and cell phone. Officer Lang testified he used a cell phone application to track the victim's cell phone and thereby tracked Jackson's location and movement. Jackson contends on appeal that the trial court erred by admitting Officer Lang's testimony. because it was based on the applications coding, the, quote, underlying program, which is a, quote, writing, under Texas Rule of Evidence 1002, and therefore not the best evidence of how authorities located him. At trial, however, Jackson argued Officer Lang's testimony was not the best evidence of, quote, ownership of the phone, end quote, Jackson explained, quote,

Starting point is 00:44:16 The testimony as to who owns the phone rests on the documents of title to the phone or the memoranda bill. And therefore, the best evidence is required, end quote. I mean, you can't say the guy isn't paying attention or smart or creative. Obviously, the argument didn't fly with the appellate court. So what this doesn't note is that one of Jackson's arguments was that the phone was his and that the investigators didn't check the phone for fingerprints. The investigators testified that they didn't check it for fingerprints because it had been raining out, which Jackson says is not true. The point is, he was saying that the phone was his and the police did nothing to prove him wrong on that.

Starting point is 00:45:02 But he was also invoking Texas rule of evidence 1002, which is, quote, an original writing, recording, or photograph is required in order to prove its content unless these rules or other laws provide otherwise. Basically, Jackson was saying that it's not enough for the officer to say that's how he found Jackson. He's saying the evidence needed to include the original writing, if you will, of the program that allowed the officer to locate Jackson. The appellate court ruled that he hadn't preserved that issue for appeal, so they wouldn't consider it. But that's neither here nor there. I'm not trying to tell you about all the insinouts of his criminal case. I want to show you that this guy never gave up.

Starting point is 00:45:44 If Russell defeat is can't admit defeat, Matthew Jackson is always takes action. Which brings us back to the point at hand. Matthew always takes action Jackson. Got out of prison in 2020 after serving seven years for the robbery he says he did not commit. And he got down to business. While in prison, Jackson filed a number of handwritten appeals, complaints, and even a writ of certiary to the United States Supreme Court, which he signed respectfully submitted. Save a Life Foundation Mental Medical and Legal Services, Mr. Matthew Jamal Jackson, which is interesting.

Starting point is 00:46:21 Because guess whose name is on the affidavit of adverse ownership for Krista Bauer's House, Matthew Jackson, and Save a Life Homes LLC? First, according to open corporates, there are five entities in the United States named Save a Life Homes LLC, all of which were created after August 11, 2020. Now, Matthew Jackson was released from prison on February 21st, 2020, by the way. And that feels notable. Only two of the five entities are still active, according to open corporates. One is in Michigan, started on December 29, 2020, and has a third-party service listed as its registered agent. So we don't know if Matthew Jackson is necessarily connected to that one. One is in Missouri, started on January 5th, 2021, and also has a third-party service listed

Starting point is 00:47:13 as its registered agent, but, but, also has Matthew Jackson listed as organizer. The remaining three entities are listed as inactive. One is in Mississippi, started December 18th, 2020, and dissolved in November 2021. The other two are in Texas. One was started on August 11, 2020, and was forfeited on March 10, 2023 for tax reasons. The other was started on March 1, 2021, 2020. and forfeited on February 27th of this year. So how exactly was Matthew Jackson able to assert squatters' rights in an adverse ownership affidavit using an LLC that no longer existed? I mean,

Starting point is 00:47:59 if you have an LLC, you know the number of times you're asked to produce those documents. But also, the Texas Secretary of State's office is a literal search away. Oh, and there's some interesting timing here. Lee Gilley allegedly caught off his GPS ankle monitor on May 1st and arrived in Milan the morning of May 4th. On May 6th, investigators swarmed the house armed with search warrants, and by May 18th, Matthew Jackson had already filed paperwork with the Harris County Clerk of Court's Office asserting ownership rights over Krista Bauer's house. And according to the Houston Chronicle, by May 13th, when Krista's father attempted to enter his daughter's house, with a law enforcement officer, he was stopped by signs on the door,

Starting point is 00:48:44 proclaiming Matthew Jackson's ownership of the house. The locks were also changed and a doorbell camera had been installed. I mean, that's some quick action. Even for Matthew always takes action, Jackson. Then again, the man has had practice. According to reports and our own research, Matthew Jackson is behind adverse ownership filings with at least a dozen Houston area homes,

Starting point is 00:49:09 including the million-dollar town home where a couple and their two children were found dead in what appears to be a murder, suicide on May 4th. The same day, the world was learning about Lee Gillies' escape. Oh, and then there was a time a woman left her rental home in May 2025 because the skeletal remains of a missing Houston man had been found in the home and police were investigating. While she was gone, Matthew Jackson took action. The woman came back to the home that she rented to retrieve the rest of her belongings

Starting point is 00:49:45 and, according to the Houston Chronicle, found Matthew Jackson and another man in the home. She asked them to leave and they wouldn't. Jackson ended up being arrested and charged with criminal trespass. Yay, right? No. Guys, he was released on a $100 bond. A $100 bond for basically pirating a home. Compare that with the $5,000.

Starting point is 00:50:10 $1,000 fine Judge Kelly just gave me to make sure that people respect the court. Ugh. The justice system is an upside-down town, and the bar for common sense and decency is in hell. Even better, in October 2025, the state dismissed Jackson's case in lieu of him completing 16 hours of community service and taking a course about decision-making. But no worries. Jackson was arrested again on April 19, 26, less than three weeks before filing adverse ownership paperwork for Christus House.

Starting point is 00:50:50 In that case, Jackson was charged with misdemeanor criminal mischief under $750. According to the charging instrument, Jackson is accused of unlawfully, intentionally, and knowingly damaging, tangible property, namely a lock, owned by Emparo Garcia, a person having a greater right to possession of the property than the defendant and hereafter styled the complainant without the effective consent of the complainant, namely without any consent of any kind, and the value of the pecuniary loss so inflicted was at least $100 and under $750

Starting point is 00:51:27 by hiring a locksmith to open the lock. Once again, y'all, he was arrested and released a few hours later on a $100 bond, and once again, the system was like, go right ahead, bro. We're not stopping you. More on that after a quick commercial, and we'll be right back. So what is Jackson up to, right? Let's look at the two police reports from the Houston Police Department in August 2025. The first is from August 23rd. The police were called to a residence on Prairie Drive around 10.45 p.m. by a neighbor for a report of criminal trespassing or fraud. The neighbor told police that she saw a beige Mercedes pull up to the residence and leave sometime between 8 and 9 p.m. The vehicle returned and dropped off a man later identified as Larry Henson.

Starting point is 00:52:35 The neighbor watched as Henson went into the home, looked around, and stood outside for a bit before returning indoors. She said she'd never seen this person or this vehicle before. When officers arrived, the front door of the home was open, and the lights were on. David, will you read this next part of the report? Once on scene, officers requested a secondary unit to the location due to needing to search the residence. As I, Officer Robarge was advising dispatch of the situation, Officer Brown observed the suspect henson inside the residence, and immediately officers pointed our circumstances. service weapons at the suspect. Officer Brown gave the suspect verbal commands to step out of the

Starting point is 00:53:27 residence to which he complied. While Officer Brown was detaining the suspect, I maintained cover of the suspect by way of pointing my service weapon at his waist. I mean, yikes, that's some serious stuff. After getting Larry Henson in the back of a patrol car, police tried to contact the name of the company listed on property seizure paperwork that had been taped to the front door and the garage. After not being able to get in touch with anyone, an officer contacted the agency's command center who told him that, quote, they believed the website for the company on the seizure paperwork Save a Life Holmes LLC to be shady and to be a scam. Because they were unable to get in touch with Matthew Jackson himself, they weren't able to prove or disprove that Larry Henson was trespassing,

Starting point is 00:54:16 so they released him from custody, but, quote, advised him that the company and suspect Jackson were shady and most likely not legitimate. Officers advised the suspect that it may be in his best interest to separate himself from the residence and suspect Jackson. David, will you read Larry Henson's statement to police? Suspect stated he was homeless prior to meeting Mr. Jackson. Suspect stated he was staying behind the son, Washetorio.

Starting point is 00:54:46 when Mr. Jackson approached him the other day and told him that he could help him out. Suspect stated he had no idea where Mr. Jackson was going to take him, but that he decided to go with him either way. Suspect stated when he arrived at the listed location, Mr. Jackson advised him that he would allow the suspect to rent the residence if he agreed to pay him $800 and the water bill. Suspect stated that Mr. Jackson created. a rental agreement that he believed to be true and official of which they both signed.

Starting point is 00:55:21 Suspect stated, as far as he knew, he was legitimately renting the residence with Mr. Jackson. Suspect stated he did not know that the listed residence is still currently listed on the market on numerous real estate websites. Yeah, so he went and got a homeless person who can afford $800 rent. and could pay the Waterville? This is very confusing. The next police report is from August 31st, 2025, when another call for a trespasser came in,

Starting point is 00:55:58 this time from a homeowner who said she had moved out of the home on March 17th and was notified by her real estate agent that there was now a man living there. The real estate agent called 911, but was told it was a civil matter. The homeowner told police that the man, man inside, you know, Larry was leasing the home from a company she believed to be fraudulent. She took a look at that agreement between Larry and Matthew Jackson and noted that it was

Starting point is 00:56:29 signed before the adverse ownership paperwork was even filed with the court. David, will you read Larry's statement to the police from this go-around? Suspect stated Mr. Jackson helps homeless veterans like the suspect to get off. the streets and into a home. Suspect states he was told by Mr. Jackson that the reason why he provided suspect with that home was because he works with homes that are in foreclosure and files a deed through the courts to take ownership of the homes, which is the case with the home he is in now. Suspect will be moving out within the next few weeks as soon as Matthew Jackson can provide suspect with a new home.

Starting point is 00:57:17 And that's it. There were no arrests made. So again, this guy, Matthew Jackson, sure is tearing things up in Houston, enlisting squatters to help him occupy the space, mowing lawns at houses to show he's keeping them up, changing locks, you know, all the things. Oh, and he even filed adverse ownership paperwork on an apartment building. So, dream big, right, Matthew? Like I said, this guy's life sounds like a movie, like a frank,

Starting point is 00:57:44 Abagnally, Catch Me If You Can, or something like that. But let's get back to Krista Bauer's house. Earlier this month, the house was repossessed from Matthew and given back to Krista's estate. So despite how bizarre this whole thing is, it did end up working out in the end. According to the constable's office for Krista's district, Matthew Jackson and other individuals are currently being investigated for these home seizures, which great, fine, lovely. But my God, look at the mess. legally has created. Look at the added and unnecessary stress. He's caused Christa's family and friends. I mean, Matthew did what Matthew apparently does, but had Lee not skipped town, this would not and could not have happened, which brings us back to Italy. Actually, no, it brings us back

Starting point is 00:58:32 to Harris County District Attorney's Office. Girl, that man better be on a plane back to Texas after his September hearing, because enough is enough. Because it's also your fault that the bowers have had to endure all this nonsense with the house. You lost your boy after trusting him and he lost the house and what we hope is his final tantrum. But my God, how messed up does the system have to be to not only allow a murder suspect to flee to a country that's going to force Texas to charge him with a lesser crime, but also to allow for the shady takeover of ownership of the murder victim's house. It shouldn't be this whole. I want to end this on a gut-wrenchingly honest note from Krista's best friends at Justice for Krista.

Starting point is 00:59:24 Here's our producer, Grace Hills, reading this post from the Justice for Krista Instagram page. Link in the description, please go follow. For nearly two years, we have been told to trust the justice system. For nearly two years, we have watched that system fail Krista and her family again and again. There are only so many times you can watch failure before hope erodes, and it is replaced by something more painful. Fear. After Lee was arrested and charged with two counts of capital murder, we were shocked when his demands for bond were met, and he was granted a $1 million bond. We were concerned that the only thing stopping him from fleeing or potentially committing more violence was a GPS monitor and a nightly curfew. We were even more concerned when evidence emerged suggesting he planned to flee, and the system did nothing about it.

Starting point is 01:00:20 After a while, it's hard to be shocked. We weren't surprised when he cut off his ankle monitor and fled the country to avoid standing trial for the murders of Krista and her unborn baby, or that he was missing for days before anyone realized he was. We weren't surprised by the silence of the U.S. criminal justice system that followed. We were angry that the system let him walk out of the country. country and that no one has taken accountability for it. But we weren't surprised. Today, we weren't surprised to learn that an Italian judge declined to extradite Lee for now. We weren't surprised that the judge ruled the Harris County DA's office hadn't provided enough assurance that it wouldn't

Starting point is 01:00:59 seek the death penalty, or that an email communication from the DA's office had seemingly undermined their case. With each failure, the burden and trauma has fallen back onto Chris's family and loved ones. We are exhausted, exhausted from pleading for accountability, exhausted from repeated failures by those who are supposed to ensure justice. It takes a great deal to surprise us anymore, but we are asking Harris County to do just that. Please show us that accountability is more than a promise. Show us that justice is still worth believing in. Show us that Christa's life mattered, that the life of her unborn baby mattered, show us that no one can get away. with murder. We will continue to stand with Krista, honor her legacy, and advocate until she receives

Starting point is 01:01:46 the justice she deserves. Thank you for continuing to stand with the Bauer family, to wear purple, to share her story, and to remind the world that Krista will never be forgotten. And now, I'll say it. The Texas justice system has failed Krista in her family at literally every single turn. And we aren't surprised either. We expected this to happen, unfortunately, which is why we started covering this case in October 24. But while we're not surprised, we're also so disappointed to see that Texas is just as bad as South Carolina when it comes to protecting women and children. These states do not value life as their laws claim. These states value men above all else, time after time, as we have seen with Lee and now with Matthew Jackson, the squatter. Men and their egos,

Starting point is 01:02:38 men and their money, men and their sick desires. Women and children, are worth less in the eyes of the law in Texas and in South Carolina, and victims like the Bowers are forced to face the systemic slaps in the face day after day while simply wanting justice for their deceased daughter and unborn grandbaby. The justice system in Texas was not built to help women like Krista, which is exactly why this has been such an uphill battle for justice at every single turn. And speaking of uphill battles, we have to talk about Christus Children. In episode 149, we told you all about how a Harris County family judge ordered that Christus children

Starting point is 01:03:22 who have been living with Christus family in South Carolina that they be returned to Texas. Well, during the midst of the chaos that the Bowers have faced in June, with Lee and Italy and a squatter taking over Christ's home, a Texas family court judge finally decided to do the right thing on June 19th and reversed her previous order, which allows Christ's parents to continue raising the children in their South Carolina home where they have a business and a network of support. The Justice for Christen Movement needs our support now more than ever, wear your purple every Tuesday to show your love and support.

Starting point is 01:03:59 Like their pages on Instagram and Facebook. Donate to their GoFundMe if you can. Every bit matters helping these victims get through these next few months. Until next time, stay tuned. Stay Pesky and stay in the sunlight. True Sunlight is a Luna Shark production created by me, Mandy Matney, co-hosted and reported by journalist Liz Pharrell. Research support provided by Beth Braden.

Starting point is 01:04:40 Audio production support provided by Jamie Hoffman and Grace Hills. Case file management by Kate Thomas. Learn more about our mission and membership at LunaSharkmedia.com. Interruptions provided by Luna and Joe Pesky. You know me. I dig until I find the truth. And it turns out that's same. instinct that drives my investigative journalism, it makes for a different but pretty amazing

Starting point is 01:05:13 new kind of travel show. Wherever it leads is Luna Sharks brand new podcast, and it's nothing like the travel content that you've heard before. We go deeper, we talk to locals, reporters, and people who actually live where you want to visit, not just the ones who want your tourist dollars. We cover the food and landmarks, sure, but we also ask the harder questions. What is the real history here? The often sad and traumatic history. What new challenge is this place facing? And how can you show up as a visitor who actually makes things better?

Starting point is 01:05:47 My co-host David Moses and I, along with a team of journalists, are hitting destinations around the world to expose the truth, give voice to victims throughout history, and get the story straight. With new destinations and episodes every other week. Wherever It Leads from Lunashark. Find it wherever you listen to your story. podcast or visit wherever it leads pod.com.

Murdaugh Murders Podcast - TSP #157 [Part One] - 'Flee' Gilley Extends His Stay in Italy + The Strange Tale of a Mass Squatter

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