Murdaugh Murders Podcast - TSP #30 - Judge Toal Becomes Alex Murdaugh’s New Judge + What We Need To Solve Stephen Smith’s Murder

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

First and foremost, we are announcing a new way to send tips and communications as we pursue answers in the death of Stephen Smith. It’s time to turn up the pressure and remind everyone that this is the case to close in 2024. If you feel comfortable to send tips straight to SLED, please do so at [e-mail]. If you want to send confidential tips to our team in coordination with Stephen's mom Sandy, you can now do so at AnswersForStephen.com. 2024 will mark 9 years since Stephen’s death and we’re going to do everything in our power so that Sandy doesn’t have to spend another year wondering what happened to her son. There is STILL HOPE THAT WE CAN SOLVE THIS CASE. And by the way, there is a $30,000 reward for anyone who gives information that leads to an arrest.  We refuse to let this case go cold, no matter how many distractions the Murdaugh mess throws our way. If you know something, say something. Please. For Sandy, for Stephen’s family. We are begging you. AnswersForStephen.com or [e-mail]. Now, in this 30th episode of True Sunlight, South Carolina's Supreme Court has finally assigned someone to take over for Judge Clifton Newman and hear Alex Murdaugh’s motion for a new murder trial. Who is former Chief Justice Jean Toal? And what could the appointment of this legal trailblazer mean for the future of Alex’s case? True Sunlight Co-hosts Mandy Matney and Liz Farrell discuss the latest development in the Murdaugh Murders Saga. Plus they answer listener questions about Becky Hill’s case and whose side they’re on. Visit our new events page Lunasharkmedia.com/events where you can learn about the upcoming in-person and virtual appearances from hosts! Join Luna Shark Premium today at Lunashark.Supercast.com. Premium Members also get access to searchable case files, written articles with documents, case photos, episode videos and exclusive live experiences with our hosts on lunasharkmedia.com all in one place. CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3BdUtOE. And for those just wanting ad-free listening without all the other great content, we now offer ad-free listening on Apple Podcast through a subscription to Luna Shark Plus on the Apple Podcasts App. SUNscribe to our free email list to get alerts on bonus episodes, calls to action, new shows and updates. CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3KBMJcP And a special thank you to our sponsors: Microdose.com, PELOTON, and VUORI. Use promo code "MANDY" for a special offer! For current & accurate updates: TrueSunlight.com facebook.com/TrueSunlightPodcast/ Instagram.com/TrueSunlightPod Twitter.com/mandymatney Twitter.com/elizfarrell youtube.com/@LunaSharkMedia Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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make sure no one is left behind by fueling progress in mental health care and patient experience. Visit camh.ca slash donate now to double your impact with a match donation. That's camh.ca slash donate now. I don't know if Elic Murdoch will actually get a new murder trial in 2024, but things just got a lot more complicated and harder to predict, with the recent Supreme Court appointment of Judge Jean Toul and the Becky Hill situation getting messier. My name is Mandy Matney.

This is True Sunlight, a podcast exposing crime and corruption previously known as the Murdock Murders podcast. True Sunlight is a Luna Shark production, written with journalist Liz Farrell. Hello and happy holidays, my friends. I'm really late on this, but I wanted to say thank you to Audible for naming my book Blood on their Hands, a best true crime audio book of 2023. Also, I just realized that I've never really been clear on the podcast that my book, Blood on their Hands, Murder Corruption in the Fall of the Murdoch Dynasty, is available on Audible, and it's spoken by, you're truly me.

I know a lot of you are traveling around the holidays, it might need a little extra to listen to on the road. And if you've loved the podcast, I promise, you will love blood on their hands. So many of our faithful listeners have reached out or left reviews on Amazon, which is super helpful, saying that they've listened to every single episode but still found a ton of new information and inspiration reading the book

that they didn't get from the podcast. Blood on their hands will also make an excellent Christmas gift for any pesky person in your life tired of the old system and ready to make a big change in 2024. Go to blood on their hands book.com and order your copy today and be on the lookout for some really exciting book signing events coming to a town near you in 2024. Now, I want to say something really important. Thank you. Our team has been doing a lot of planning for 2024. And it all sort of hit me the other day, how we have actually set up a sustainable business model that will continue to pursue our mission of following the truth wherever it leads, giving a voice to the victims and getting the story straight. And we will keep doing that,

as long as y'all will keep listening to us. When we first got started with MMP, I couldn't believe that at large, the advertising company we have partnered with, actually was willing to bet on us, making another 48 episodes back in 2021 and 2022. That number used to make me panic. Most of 2022, I spent crippled with anxiety, thinking, how in the world are we going to get people to pay attention to us for that long while maintaining journalistic integrity and sticking to our mission? And then how am I going to do a book on top of that? And how am I going to do all of this while an army of trolls are trying to convince me to

live in fear because the internet hates me? It was all too much. And sometimes I forget how much, and sometimes I forget how much anxiety and fear I lived with during that time. I used to envision making the 48th episode, which was at the end of the first deal, like crossing a marathon finish line. And for a long time, I gladly wanted to revert back

to my life as a local reporter that the internet didn't care about. But after a lot of therapy and self-reflection, back to my life as a local reporter that the internet didn't care about. But after a lot of therapy and self-reflection, I now realize that I unfortunately allowed trolls to enter my psyche early on in this endeavor, and they actually convinced me that our success with a fleeting fluke that would be over faster than Elik Murdoch's money managed to disappear. But turns out it wasn't a fluke.

Our listeners stayed through ups and downs, twists and turns, and temporary deep dives into other cases like Bowen Turner, Gerard Price and the Solomon's, y'all stayed and kept the momentum and our mission going. You have learned to trust us when we say something is important or if something is insignificant. And that trust that we have with our listeners and our sources means the world to us.

We will never take that for granted. That trust that we have with y'all is why we triple-check our facts. And why sometimes it takes us a little longer to respond to breaking news. Because we know y'all aren't here for the knee jerk reactions, you are here for the truth, you are here for deep dives, you are here for trustworthy journalism. That trust in that belief in us has instilled a sense of motivation that has kept us going through dark times, deep betrayal, troll armies and what sometimes feels like an impossible battle against the system.

Yet here we are. After over 160 episodes of MMP True Sunlight and Cup of Justice, with a whole year ahead of us with so many exciting changes in additions to our Luna Shark platform, I just want to say from the bottom of my heart, thank you for sticking with us and allowing us to do this very important work. It means the world to all of us. Now, we need to talk about the Steven Smith case, where I have admittedly failed this year. I have not done nearly enough to push for justice in Steven's case this year. There is no excuse for this, but I promise to do better next year. Starting

in January, we have big plans of shining lots of light on the Stephen Smith case, and we again are asking for your help. First, we have a new website for you to write down and remember. AnswersForSteven.com This is a contact form approved by Sandy that we hope people close to the situation will use to contact us with what they know. We have gotten a lot of tips sent to us over various social media accounts and devices in the past few years. And to be honest, it has been impossible to keep track of and organize it, especially during chaotic times.

So if you have already sent a tip to us about the Steven Smith case, please do not be discouraged. And please, resummit your tips to answers for steven.com. In 2024, we have a pesky plan slash goal to speak with as many investigators and first responders from Steven's case in 2015, on or off the record. Specifically, I am talking about Michael Duncan, Todd Proctor, JD James, Thomas Moore, David Rale, Michael Bridges,

and Nick Ginn to name a few. We want to know what really happened with the investigation and what went on behind the scenes. If we can find out what happened to that investigation and if someone purposely derailed it, maybe we can find out who killed Stephen Smith. So if those men I named happened to be listening or if someone listening happens to know one of them in a good way to contact them, please contact us by going to answersforsteven.com or email us at info at lunasharkmedia.com. We hope to use this new website and easy to organize form as we will be working on getting more

sources in Steven's case in 2023. Sources as close to the situation as possible. Sources who will actually give us names. We know that there are people out there who know exactly what happened to Stephen Smith. Let me be clear here. This is not to interfere with law enforcement's investigation. We promise we will be carefully working with our law enforcement sources just as we always have before we share any new leads that could possibly

compromise the investigation. If you feel comfortable to send tips straight to sled, please, again, do that at tips at sled.se.gov. But honestly, we have given sled a lot of time, nine months, since they said that they were prioritizing Stephen's case, and it is time to revamp the pressure and remind them that this is the case to focus on in 2024. And by tips, let me be clear here. Examples of the types of tips that we are looking for sound like my son told me

that his friend was there when Stephen was killed and I can tell you the name of the friend in my son's name or even a tip like I knew Stephen and I can tell you who he was involved with and who he wasn't around the time he was murdered. These types of tips are the kinds that break down walls and help solve cases. Tips that will lead us to someone with firsthand knowledge. Tips, not theories, that can actually help solve this case in 2024. Tips submitted to answersforsteven.com are not public and will be vetted thoroughly and kept confidential until we get approval otherwise. Please leave your tips at answersforsteven.com.

We promise you, we will be making Steven Smith a priority in 2024, and we will do our best to pressure sled to do the same. 2024 will mark nine years since Steven's death, and we're going to do everything in our power so that Sandy doesn't have to spend another year wondering what happened to her son. There is still hope that we can solve this case.

And by the way, there is a $30,000 reward for anyone who gives sled information that leads to an arrest. We refuse to let this case go cold, no matter how many distractions the Murdock mess throws our way. If you know something, say something. Please, for Sandy and for Stevens family, we are begging you.

Again, contact us at answersforsteven.com. Today, we're going to answer a few of the questions we've gotten about the Becky Hill case. But first, we wanna talk about a major development in Ella Cmurdox reckless and destructive quest for a new trial. The chief justice of the South Carolina Supreme Court has finally appointed a judge to take over

for judge Clifton Newman. And is surprised to know one here. That judge is a woman. I And it's surprised to know one here. That judge is a woman. I say it's surprised to know one because that's how the good old boys tend to roll in South Carolina. When there's a political mess to clean up, it seems like they always send in women or people of color or both to take care of it.

This judge is not just a woman, by the way. She's the woman in South Carolina's judicial history. Her name is Jean Tol, and she was the first woman to be appointed Chief Justice of the State Supreme Court in the year 2000. And she's not just a trailblazer. She's long been considered one of the brightest legal minds in the state. And she was personal friends with other legal trailblazers, such as Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sandra Day O'Connor. I should also note that she's an octogenarian, so she's basically the grand dom of Jura's who are not to be messed with. Meaning, on its face, it seems like her appointment could be a

message from the Supreme Court to Dick Arpullian. You can keep taking your old man after new naps at the defense table without judgment, but you will accept her decisions on this matter. At least we're hoping that's what the message is. We're cautiously optimistic about her appointment. Even though there are some valid concerns and criticisms about her past and tanglements with the good old boys, including decisions that have been perceived as being made to benefit her friends.

Speaking of which, tune in for our next episode of Cup of Justice because I'm sure we'll be diving in deep on that one with our co-host Eric Blant, who has firsthand experience with Judge Total in that department. We'll be right back. Metrolinx and CrossLinks are reminding everyone to be careful, as Eglinton Cross-town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks, and only make left turns where it's safe to do so.

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Conditions Apply. So, let's talk a little bit about the order from Supreme Court Chief Justice Donald Beatty. Here's David with what it says. With the honorable cliff to Newman presiding, the defendant was convicted of the murders of Margaret Kennedy-Branced Eddermurduck and Paul Terry Murduck on March 2nd, 2023, and sentenced on March 3rd, 2023. On October 27th, 2023, the defendant filed a motion for a new trial. I find that Clifton Newman has requested to be removed

from all post-trial matters related to the above referenced matters. It is hereby ordered that the Honorable Jean Huffer toll retired Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of South Carolina be assigned exclusive jurisdiction for the limited purpose of presiding over defendant's motion for a new trial in the above matters. Justice Toll shall decide all matters pertaining to these cases, including motions to appoint

and relieve counsel, and shall retain jurisdiction over these cases, regardless of where she may be assigned to hold court and may schedule such hearings as may be necessary at any time, without regard as to whether there is a term of court scheduled. The wording here is important. One, Justice Beatty does not use the word recuse to describe judge-numans to parture from

the case. Why? Because judge-numans has not recused himself from the case. They'll recuse all and asking to be removed have the same outcome. The distinction is important in that judge Newman is not admitting to having any conflict of interest or to being unable to rule fairly in this case. Both things that team Murdoch have accused him of having and being. In other words, judge Newman and the Chief Justice are not giving Dick and Jim any ground on their

accusations of judicial bias. Remember this when you hear or see people incorrectly assert that Judge Newman said anything improper during his appearance on the Today Show and at his alma mater. He didn't. Team Murdoch took his words, stripped them of their context and even truncated at least one quote to make it look that way, and then social media ran with it. Also remember that the bottom line is that the Supreme Court did not disqualify Judge Newman. He asked to be removed from the case. I'm sure we'll be seeing some twisting of that fact from Team Murdoch in the future.

Two, let's talk about Justice Beatty's wording on what Judge toll can do here. So he uses the word cases, which might be confusing to people knowing that there are several Murdoch-related cases that were assigned to Judge Newman. As of right now, Judge Newman is still presiding over the roadside shooting cases, assuming those charges still hold up because, as you all know,

we have suspicions about Elic actually having a $10 million life insurance policy that he could commit fraud against. What Justice Beatty means here by C cases is the four cases that comprise Alex Murder Trial. That's two murder charges and two possession of weapons in the commission of a deadly crime charges. Those are the cases that Judge toll has jurisdiction over when it comes to the new trial motion. Okay, so the new trial motion. That's different from Alex's appeal. His appeal is on pause for the moment. As a reminder, his appeal is based on the argument

that judge Newman aired in allowing testimony about Alex financial crimes. Team Murdoch believes that but for that decision, Alex would have been found not guilty. Never mind the nearly two years of lying about his alibi over and over again, which he would have kept doing had the video not surfaced. Or the fact that two terrified people testified that Ellic had pressured them to tell

Sled something different about where he was and what he was wearing that night. Or the fact that Dick and Jim's recycled boat crash experts posited that Maggie and Paul had to have been killed by two, five foot, two inch, weaponless, wandering mischief makers with a bone to pick over a three-year-old BYU case. Or that the GPS data shows Alex slowing down right where Maggie's fellow misthirmed before speeding off to his mother's house. Anyway, Judge Toll will oversee the motion for a new trial in which Dick and Jim have accused Collatin County Clerk of Court Becky Hill of tampering with the jury. The first question for Judge Tote to answer is whether the

arguments Dick and Jim have made are grounds for an evidentiary hearing. This is where things could get tricky. On the one hand, granting them an evidentiary hearing could be disarming for Dick and Jim, in that they'd have to put up or shut up. Also, it would remove their ability to cry about the court not being fair to Alec. But also, an evidentiary hearing would give Dick new tap shoes and a big old stage to dance on. It would allow him to march in the clowns and unleash the fire eaters to distract and mislead. It would allow him to once again marshal the headlines in their favor. Now obviously the third thing an evidentiary hearing could do is prove their case, right? Prove that there was jury tampering in Alex's case.

Here's what we have to say about that. One, let's start with the history here. Dick and Jim have lied for Alex in the past. Two, look at the so-called evidence they have produced in their emotion. I.e. what evidence? That would be none. Three, look at the state's response to their motion for a new trial, in which they not only exposed Dick and Jim's complicity in the removal of the Egg Lady juror, and exposed the fact

that the Egg Lady juror was caught in a lie. They called Dick and Jim out on their misleading statements in their motion, and they showed that no juror who rendered a verdict, including the one that Dick and Jim have on their side, has said that anything Becky did or said resulted in them being prejudice and believing that Elyk Murdock is guilty of killing his wife and son. And for, consider the precedent that this would create and the message it would send to every future juror out there. To us, the idea of blowing the door of the jury room off its hinges for Ellic Murdoch is laughable. That jury was tasked with making a decision in that moment,

based on the information they had learned in that courtroom. They did that. To question them on it now is reckless and it's futile. It does not matter what a former member of the jury thinks now. reckless and it's futile. It does not matter what a former member of the jury thinks now. It matters what they thought back then. If Judge Toll does agree to an evidentiary hearing, we hope that she will do so and as limited a way as possible, in a way that gets to the truth while keeping a check on Dick and Jim's bombastic court romantics. And we hope she considers the obvious, which is that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to support Alex guilt. Okay, lastly, let's talk about the part

where Chief Justice Beatty has made a point to say that Judge Tull has jurisdiction over motions to appoint and relieve counsel. As of now, there are no such motions, but it is curious to us that the Supreme Court would make a point to say this. It would seem to be a given that a judge assigned to a case would be in charge of doing those two things. Is the court giving Dick an out to remove himself from this case? There's been buzz that Dick Harpoutlian has been looking for an escape route from this case? There's been buzz that Dick Harputlian has been looking

for an escape route from this case for a while. Is the court hinting at something? I guess time will tell. Now, we'll dive deeper with Judge toll and future coverage, but here is a quick rundown on important things to know about her. So to start with, Walton McLeod said this about her. I'm kind of proud of Jean Toul and I've admired her brains and ability. Even when she is aiming at you, you can't help but admire her stuff. Before becoming a judge in 1988,

Judge Toul served 13 years in the state house. That is right. Judge Toul was also a lawyer legislator. Many women attorneys in South Carolina would say that they owed their careers to Judge toll. She was the first woman to join the State Supreme Court in 1988. And again, the first woman to be appointed Chief Justice in the year 2000.

When she retired from her seat as Chief Justice in 2015 after turning 72, the associated press wrote the following. When South Carolina Chief Justice Jean Toll became a lawyer in 1968, she could argue cases before a jury, but she couldn't be a juror. Okay, so this isn't quite accurate. South Carolina was the second to last state in the union to allow women to serve on juries. Mississippi was last. That changed for South Carolina in March 1967, not 1968. It still

gross and hard to imagine though. That said, Jean Toul decided to become an attorney and did the hard work to become one at a time when she couldn't even decide on a person's guilt herself. A lot of our state's most consequential rulings have judge tolls name on them. Additionally, even though she voted with the majority in 2014 to keep autopsy records private, she is known for her advocacy of open meetings and open public records. She is the reason we have an electronic filing system for court records in the state of South Carolina. During her swearing in ceremony for chief justice, she said, quote, many people have asked me what kind of judge I will be.

I hope I will always be curious and is excited about the structure of law as I have been since my first law school class. I hope I will rule with compassion. One of her daughters had this to say about her. With Jean Toll, honesty, honor, and compassion are the backbone of all her actions. I believe this is where kids stay would say, scurrr! One year after this, Jean Toll got herself into some trouble. After a state bar event one evening, her minivan sideswiped an unoccupied parked car. She then left the scene of the crash. When law enforcement went to her house, they noted that she smelled like alcohol, and that she had admitted to drinking. She denied knowing that she had hit the vehicle, but said probably when law enforcement asked her if drinking might have contributed to this incident,

she was not asked to take a breathalyzer. Instead, police ticketed her for driving two-thousand for conditions and leaving the scene of an accident. She reported herself to the bar. After the incident, Newt's favorite coverage included experts saying that, based on the damage to the other car, there's no way she could not have known she had hit it. She maintained, though, that she had taken out her hearing aids and was listening to a book on tape with the air conditioning blasting. Then six years later it happened again. She was seen backing into a parked car at the Columbia airport. She got out to survey the damage and said she saw none, so she left. A witness to the incident told police that the damage was immediately apparent to her, and that she just just

told her she was in a hurry. Tull said at the time that she didn't know about the damage until four hours later. She returned to the scene and asked police to ticket her. Then she called the owner of the vehicle and told her that she would do anything that needed to be done to make sure the vehicle was repaired. Beyond those incidents, Judge Toll has faced some of the same accusations of entitled behavior that we've become a custom to hearing about judges in South Carolina. From what we understand, that behavior has had

limited consequence, but in 1996, four years before she became Chief Justice, Justice Toll did get called out for her behavior with courtroom staff. According to media reports of the time, Justice toll was accused of being aggressive and hard charging in her interactions with courtroom staff. She told legislators that before she was elected in 1988, justices were mostly absent from their offices,

only coming in once or twice a month. She operated differently, and as such her constant presence was annoying to staff members who were not accustomed to having to deal with justices on a daily basis. The main accusation from staff that was centered on justices' tolls so-called temper, and her alleged use of profanity. These accusations came about at a time when just Toll was facing a challenger for her seat. She was the first Justice in the 20th century to face a challenger in her bid for re-election.

Imagine that. Her challenger judged Tom Irvin, gut-coc-calling Justice Toll's staff to ask for dirt on her. When asked to testify about Justice Toul's behavior, most court employees reported that they never heard her curse, belittle, were publicly humiliate any other employee and that they themselves were not subjected to any such behavior. One former law clerk said that Justice Toul's never ending intellectual stimulation could perhaps be intimidating to some, and that she liked to play devil's advocate as a way to work through problems.

Justice told herself, noted that she spoke loudly because of a hearing loss, but that, quote, tough questioning does not always equal to a lack of decorum. Even though it's super clear to us that this was just a predictable bout of sexism, because what man in South Carolina would ever be called into the legislature to talk about their swearing and loudness at work?

I mean, think about Dick Hargley's language and demeanor alone. We think this is a pretty good indicator that Judge toll can handle the likes of Dick and Jim. In fact, it makes us wonder if she would have let Dick get away with pointing an automatic rifle at the prosecution. So the number one question we have been asked about Judge Toul is what we think about her appointment to Ellic Murdoch's case and what it could mean for Ellic Murdoch getting a new trial.

Again, we'll talk more about this on cup of justice, but to wrap up our feelings, we are cautiously optimistic. Most of our legal sources have independently agreed that if anyone can stop Dick and Jim's nonsense and restore order, it would be judged whole. Many of our sources see her appointment as a signal from the Supreme Court that they want to preserve and protect Judge Newman's legacy and preserve and protect the sanctity of the jury room. One source particularly said that they couldn't see Betty, who values and respects Judge

Newman's legacy of picking someone who would be an obvious favor of Dicar Poolyan. Those are good things. Some people have asked us about Judge Toul's relationship with Dick Harpoutlian, who was once described as our long-term friend in a newspaper article I tweeted about. Here's the thing we have learned about Dick Harpoutlian and his relationships. Like most slick politicians grasping for power, a majority of Harpoutlian's relationships are largely transactional. He is loyal to himself and his needs, which means people sometimes described as his friend,

like Jean Toul, tend to float in and out of his inner circle, depending on what is most beneficial to him. One source did say in 2014, Dick supported Toul's opponent in a nasty election that came down to the wire. That source also said that Toul is known for punishing her enemies, which could mean that Dick is in trouble if he hasn't made amends with her since 2014. That said, we cannot forget that one Murdoch hearing in August 2022 when Dick Harpulian specifically named Justice Jean Tol and suggested that the court appoint her to manage evidence in the case

when he didn't get his way with Newman. and we point out our motion, I asked for a point, a special message to supervise this government in this case. A number of tire judges have done this in the past, not because you can't do it, because you can sue all of your time. Someone like the tire judge, she just told, the number of people that do it in civil cases all the time. So I asked the court to consider playing a master to supervise the state. And reviewing and assessing and reviewing the documents

is sure we get what we should get. Thank you. So maybe she was on his good side then or maybe his delusional and thought that he was. Like I said, it is tricky. The other thing that is tricky is Toul's relationship with the Murdoch family. It's not shocking that Toul's career crossed paths with Alex Fawler Randolph Murdoch. Actually, Lunashek Premium member Stephanie Truzdale found an interesting Supreme Court ruling that reversed a Colitan County man's murder conviction. In that case, Randolph Murdoch was the prosecutor.

The Supreme Court ruled that there wasn't enough evidence of guilt for the jury in the case to consider. But toll wrote the dissent in that case and was one of two votes against the court over turning his conviction. Meaning, she sided with the prosecution, and she said she believed that there was enough evidence to find that man guilty. Also, in 2009, Tulsaun ran off Murdoch's praises at a Hampton County Courthouse Portrait unveiling. Tulsaun was quoted by the Augusta Chronicle,

saying, quote, when the legal history of South Carolina is set for the ages, the name Randolph Murdoch will be written large. Boy, was she right about that? Bottom line of all of this, Judge Jean Toll is a serious wild card. She is notorious for doing what she wants

and notorious for being unpredictable when it comes to her rulings. And we will be right back. The McNugget buddies are back, but this time they got a fresh look as part of the new Kerwin Frostbox at McDonald's. We're talking all new buddies, dressed head to toe in the freshest fits. All designed by the artist Kerwin Frost. So when you order the Kerwin Frost Box, with your choice of a 10 piece McNuggets or a Big Mac meal, you'll get one of the

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also available on Stack TV. Okay, now we wanna address some of the questions we've gotten over the past few weeks about Becky Hill and her case. The first question is, why hasn't Becky been fired? The answer to that is twofold. First, Becky hasn't been sanctioned by the Ethics Commission. She's not been found guilty of the accusations made against her,

and thus far she's not been charged with any crimes, meaning she's still innocent until proven guilty. The second part of that answer is that she's in elected official. Should this reach a point where she's found guilty of any of the accusations made against her or charged with a crime, she can step down from office. If she refuses to step down, it would be up to the governor to remove her. There's no such thing as recall elections in South Carolina, hence what we call this the land of no consequences.

Now, getting governor Henry McMaster to remove someone from office is usually a task. First of all, it's a case-by-case decision that's almost always political. Also, generally speaking, when McMaster does want to deal with it, he'll default to the philosophy that voters ultimately have responsibility for removing someone from office in the next election. Earlier this year, lawmakers called on McMaster to remove the state's long-time elected com troller, a man named Richard Ekstrom, who was responsible for an epic accounting mistake, costing the state $3.5 billion. McMaster wouldn't do it, so lawmakers began to look at ways to fire him themselves. In the end, Ekstrom finally agreed to step down, but that was after a seemingly from my

cold-ded hand standoff with lawmakers. Another example. In 2020, former Bamberg County Councilman Trent Connard was arrested and charged by sled with multiple counts of sexually assaulting children. You know, very serious offenses that should require immediate suspension for any person and a position of power. Well, it took McMaster more than two months to simply suspend this man from office. Trinkenard was represented by Bakari Sellers, by the way. The former lawmaker and high-powered lawyer was strong connections to Dick Harpothian,

the one who was quoted in People magazine in 2021 calling the Murdock family the salt of the earth in referring to Elyk on Twitter as a kind gentle soul. By the way, guess what happened to Trink and Nard since he hired a fancy attorney with connections? Even after, he was arrested while out on bond for attempting to buy a gun while facing felony charges, he got a sweetheart deal. The solicitor dropped over a dozen criminal sexual assault against a minor charges, and he was able to plead guilty to one count of assault and battery. Judge Perry H. Graveley, a judge in the F state who we have not talked about before, sentenced Gennard to just 42 months of house arrest in December 2022.

This is why we call South Carolina the land of no consequences. These are the types of stories in the backs of our minds when we look at the accusations lodged against Becky and why they feel very minor to us because we are so used to men and power in this state getting away with cheating, lying, stealing and sometimes even murdering and raping children. This is why our voices shake when we scream for reform. We have seen it go on for years and we have seen that the system is simply broken. At any rate, it is not clear whether McMaster has even been asked to remove Becky from

office. But at this point, there would be no grounds to do so. Again, she's only being accused of wrongdoing. She has not been charged. She has not been sanctioned. In Trink Kinnard's case, McMaster would only suspend him after a grand jury indictment for a crime of moral turpitude. So right now, there are accusations that could result in fines and possibly charges, but there have been no charges and no indictments. And not to sound like a broken record, but the ethics complaints that she could be fine for have nothing to do with jury tampering. The cold, hard fact here is that the ethics commission

is largely considered a joke in South Carolina. And typically, ends up resulting in little accountability in a whole lot of wasted tax dollars. Years ago, I reported on an ethics commission case where a South Carolina school board member was fined $1,000 for voting on a $550,000 school board contract involving an organization where his wife served as a board member. It took two years before he was found guilty of that charge and get this, he used tax dollars to help him fight the ethics complaint. He hired a Columbia

law firm to help fight his ethics complaint, and that firm racked up a $14,000 bill. All for a school board member's blatant mistake that he was clearly guilty of and resulted in a fine of just $1,000. Ultimately, a law firm got an easy $14,000 contract paid for by Richland County taxpayers all because a school board member broke the rules. Tell me, where is the accountability there? The other thing about the Ethics Commission is that officials know they have little authority accountability there. The other thing about the ethics commission is that officials know they have little authority

even when it comes to enforcing violators to pay their fines. A brilliant investigation in 2021 by Avery Wilkes and Joseph Cranny of the Post and Courier found that more than 370 politicians and officials had an outstanding debt of more than three million dollars for ethics commission fines that they just Never paid land of no consequences like we keep saying Additionally, even if the ethics commission finds that Becky violated state ethics law It wouldn't necessarily mean that she would step down or should step down or be removed from office In Buford County I can name two public

employees who have been cited by the State Commission for violating ethics laws. One was the school superintendent, whom the school board continued to support after it was discovered that he was using his position to earn side money, significant side money, for serving as a consultant to outside vendors. Another was a man who served as interim county administrator before leaving his position for another high ranking public position on Hilton Head Island. He wrote himself a nice fat contract that paid him $25,000 to cut salt with the county after his departure. The first man eventually resigned, but only after securing a more than $200,000 exit package. The second man is still happily

plugging away in his high-paid position on the island. Now, we're not saying any of that is right, we're saying that the standards are very low when it comes to consequences of not only being accused of an ethics violation, but also being found guilty of one. We also want to point out the retaliatory nature of the ethics complaints. While we believe there to be far more ethics complaints out there that have merit to them that should result in sanctions than there are not, we also have seen examples of the ethics commission being used to silence political opponents or to put pressure on them. Remember what dicted to Eric in December 2021? He didn't like what Eric was saying in the press, so he filed a complaint against him

with the ODC, basically holding Eric's law license over his head. Remember in episode 6 of True Sunlight when we did a deep dive on Judge Casey Manning, the judge who allowed lawyer legislator Todd Rutherford to secure a secret deal to release derogd price, a murderer from prison 16 years before his sentence was up. And that episode we told you about how a group of women public defenders had filed a complaint against Judge Manning for his egregious behavior in the courtroom. To retaliate, Judge Manning felt complaints against the women with the ODC and basically held their licenses in Hawk so that they would back down. If you know of any instances, by the way, in which the State Ethics Commission or the

ODC were used as a means of pressuring someone over a matter, send us an email and let us know because we know there are countless examples of this out there. Okay. The next question that we need to clear up is, I see some on social media saying that Becky Hill ignored the ethics ruling that said she could not write her book. Is that true? The answer to that is absolutely not, and you should question anyone who tries to claim that this is true because it shows that they are either incapable of understanding the facts

or they are intentionally misleading you. We have explained this before a few times in past episodes, including last week, so please go back to that episode if you need more clarity. What you need to know is that the Ethics Commission informal ruling on this essentially allowed her to write the book. She did not, as far as we know, violate anything in that April 2023 decision. Now, in the two ethics complaints that were filed against her this summer, she is being accused of hosting book signings during work time, which she denies doing.

Also, online commenters are sharing instances where it is clear that Becky used her work email to conduct personal business. Is that a good look for Becky? No. Is it something that means that she tampered with the jury? No. The next question is, what is the deal with the picture? So the picture refers to a snapshot that was taken of a security camera screen showing

Alec lying in his cell during the trial. In one of the ethics compliance filed by the husband of a 14 circuit solicitor's office employee who, according to sources, would have had no first-hand knowledge of any of the accusations he's made against Becky. Becky is accused of using her political position and authority to obtain confidential information and digital images of the defendant and others during the trial. She is also accused of allowing Melissa Gordon, the wife of her co-author, to have unfettered access to the courthouse during the trial. The complaint accuses Melissa of taking a photo of the

security screen showing Ella in his cell awaiting the verdict. This assertion not only accuses Becky of wrongdoing it accuses Melissa of violating judge Newman's order against citizens and the media having their cell phones in the courthouse. In her response to the ethics commission, Becky says she was given this photo by a bail-eff named Gary Hale, who is now her deputy clerk of court. She says that there are 15 areas of the court house where there are monitors showing various angles of the security cameras. She says Gary took a photo of the screen of one of the monitors and shared it with her. She says that she later shared this photo with Melissa, who placed it on social media. Online commenters contend that this photo actually came from Becky's computer, though it's

unclear how they arrived at that conclusion. Especially when the ethics violations themselves do not accuse Becky of taking that photo herself. In the response, Becky says she did not encourage anyone to post the photo, nor did she suggest that it should be made public. She also notes that she didn't use the photo in her book. So to recap, Becky says she didn't take the photo, but she did send it to the wife of her co-author who put it on Facebook. This photo never appeared in Becky's book.

I don't want to get into the weeds with this one because ultimately this is not a question that Judge Toll will be considering when deciding whether to give Ellicin a trial. However, it's worth pointing out that there's nothing that we know of that says that a photo of an inmate of a county jail lying in his bed fully clothed would not be considered public information. Every jail has its own policies. We've never foiled for security footage of an inmate cell to test this out though. In July of this past year, the South Carolina Department of Corrections released the contents of Alex iPad to the media in response to a FOIA request. In that response were photos of Alec without a shirt on. The Department of Corrections later said that the

photos were inadvertently released. The Department of Corrections meaning the prison does have a policy that prohibits the release of inmate photos, citing security concerns. What we're saying is this, there's a difference between something that feels wrong and actually is wrong. It's not clear that Becky sharing that photo would be considered a violation of either courthouse policy or state law.

Becky is the clerk of court and had we foiled for that photo, she likely would have been the person to decide whether that photo was public information, absent a policy on it. decide whether that photo was public information absent a policy on it. Okay, final question. Are y'all on Becky's side in this? I think regular listeners know the answer here is a complex one. We see what is happening. We see who is doing it. We know that Becky has made it easy for them. And we know that most media seems intent on whipping people around so they are facing

the wrong direction and focusing on the wrong things. All with a mistaken idea that they are covering an ordinary case of a public official facing ordinary corruption accusations. That frustrates us because this case is not ordinary. In other words, we firmly believe that what's happening to Becky right now is politically driven and that it's being done to help bolster Alex claims that she tampered with the jury. We think the timeline, which we talked about last week, says it all. But we also know from our sources that Becky likely is going to be in trouble.

However, a source who is familiar with what investigators are finding told us that the most serious accusations launched against Becky, the ones that could result in criminal charges, are the ones that were not in criminal charges are the ones that were not made in the ethics complaints. That in their investigation into the criminal aspects of the complaints, they found something else. And in their investigation into Becky's son's wiretapping case, they found that calls

were recorded starting in July, which is when Becky's ethics complaints were filed. Meaning, they suspect that Becky knew that this was happening. Becky has denied knowing that her son was listening in on Megan Yutze's calls. And she says her son never shared any information with her about those calls. The only time he mentioned anything was to ask Becky whether someone in the clerk's office, a long-time friend of Becky's, who was one of the two people who filed ethics complaints against her, was actually her friend. To which Becky reportedly replied, I thought so. We've been told that Becky's son is maintaining that he was told to record the calls by his boss because of a suspected inter-office romance involving a staffer and an employee of the 14th Circuit Solicitors Office. As you can see, this case is incredibly messy.

The most important thing is this, though. We've been told un-equivically that nothing that is contained in the ethics complaints, and nothing that investigators have found outside of those complaints so far, has anything to do with Eleg Murdoch or his trial, which brings us to the point we want to make crystal clear. We will continue to speak out against reckless conflations between Becky's lapses and judgment and ethics troubles with the accusations Dick and Jim are making against her in regards to the jury. They are not the same.

One does not, from what we're seeing and hearing so far, confirm the other. Us making this distinction does not make us inherently on Becky's side. We are on the side of one justice system for all. We do not believe that a powerful attorney like Senator Dick Harpoulyan or an influential and wealthy man like Ellic should be rewarded for abuses of the justice system. And until we see evidence that this jury was tampered with, that their verdict was a result of prejudice and pressure they received from Becky. We are defaulting to believing the only thing anyone who has been paying attention thus far should believe, and that's that we are being misled by the defense. Until proven otherwise, that is where our heads are at.

We believe, regardless of whether investigators find reasons to charge Becky, that the ethics complaints were made when they were, because the primary goal was not to expose corruption, but rather to throw doubt on Becky's character. We believe this because the bulk of both complaints are weak. And of the three dozen or so accusations, only two or three of them included specific examples that demonstrate first-hand knowledge of a potential violation, which happened years earlier.

The complaints include several accusations that appear to be solely based on the complainant's assumptions, such as the idea that Becky allowed Melissa Gordon to cut the line and get a seat in the courtroom throughout the entirety of the trial. Melissa attended trial four times. She didn't meet Becky until March 1st, the day before the jury reached its verdict. Another example would be the idea that media gave Becky a birthday party in the wildlife center. That event, as we've told you before, was paid for by Joe McCullough,

Dick's close friend and the lawyer for the egg lady juror. There was another party in which Becky's birthday was celebrated. That party was a birthday party for one of the reporters, which she held at her Airbnb. Because Becky's birthday was also around that same time, Becky attended the party and took part in it. We've seen the invitation to that party. No mention of Becky was made in it. Becky is accused of receiving gifts from members of the media, but we've yet to see evidence of that or any specific accusation. Neither complainant said who allegedly did this or what gift Becky allegedly received.

Again, until there are examples, all of these are assumptions. For her part, Becky denies most of the accusations made in the ethics complaints. In one complaint, she's accused of providing two exhibits that should have been sealed to the production company that made the Netflix documentary. She admits that this happened, but says it was an oversight. When the error was discovered, she said she contacted the production company to tell them that they could not under any circumstances publish that information. A hearing was held in June to seal the exhibits and Becky said she immediately shared Judge Newman's order with the production company which complied.

As for the accusations that she misused federal funds by buying furniture for the courthouse and giving bonuses to court staff, Becky includes an email with her response that appears to be from the administrator of the federal grant in question. This administrator tells her she's allowed to do both things so long as they involve family court. As for the accusation that she kept a refund from a uniform vendor, Becky included a copy of the refund

along with what appears to be the deposits live for that check into the Clerk of Court's account. As for the accusation that she redirected a $100 check from a tourist into her personal account, Becky included an email showing that her deputy clerk had made the director of finance for the county, who is a man who represents one third of the 501c3 that serves as a landlord to Duffy Stone's office buildings, aware of the check, and she told him that they wanted to use the money to put toward new windows for the courthouse. Also attached the responses to Trans Middle Form, showing that the money was sent to the finance department on June 1st.

So again, we're not sharing the details of these ethics complaints to build a case for Becky's innocence per se. We're sharing them to show you how weak these complaints seem once you break them down. How is it that two people? One of whom worked for Becky and one of whom is connected to this only through his relationship to a 14th Circuit Solicitor's Office employee. Both of whom had clearly no first-hand knowledge that this check was stolen because it doesn't appear to have been stolen were allowed to create so much chaos based on assumptions Fascinating, right again. We're pointing these things out not as a full threat of defense of Becky or to broadly Excuse any behavior of that might ultimately be found to be corrupt

We're simply saying that something does not seem right here and that's design. And we wish that more media would acknowledge it. So back to Judge toll. We hope that she sees what we see, and we hope that she doesn't conflate the suspicions about Becky as they relate to the ethics complaints with the issue at hand, which is, did Becky tamper with this jury. So many people continue to

misunderstand this case as a she said she said situation. They think that it all boils down to Becky's word against the word of some egg lady. They think that Ellie getting a new trial rests solely on whether a judge can believe Becky against the egg lady. We are saying the egg lady juror is not a factor in this decision, nor should she be. Her dismissal was not because Becky said that she should be dismissed. It wasn't because of anything that Sled did. A pizza shop employee reported to Judge Newman that her co-worker, a tenant of the egg lady, was telling people what the egg lady juror was saying about the trial.

The pizza shop employee has no connection to Becky or sled, according to what she told Dick when he went to visit her home hoping to find his smoking gun. He went to visit her home hoping to find his smoking gun. Not only did the tenants admit in the presence of Dick and Jim that the egg lady did talk to them about the case, the egg lady's own husband also said that she talked about the case. It doesn't matter what egg lady said, it matters that she said anything at all, which was against Judge Newman's rules. One more time.

That is why she was dismissed. It is that simple, and we hope that Judge Toll will be able to make the distinction between the matter at hand versus the matter that exists solely for the headlines right now. Even if Becky is criminally charged, it does not automatically grant Elic a new trial. Even if Becky's credibility is entirely dismantled, it does not equal Elic gets a new trial.

Think about it. Should every single murder defendant who can afford an expensive legal team get a new trial just because their expensive defense team found that someone who worked in the courthouse had unrelated ethical issues, is that really justice? Is that really preserving due process? It is not that would be chaos. That would spend the wheels of justice back in time.

That would solidify the two systems of justice that tilt in favor of the rich and powerful. So, Alex Defense team claims that they just need to prove that Becky and her alleged inappropriate actions could have influenced Alex Guilty verdict. But the prosecution believes that the defense has to show actual evidence to prove that she actually tampered with the jury. Ultimately, it will all come down to Judge Jean Toul. The complicated trailblazer with a lot of connections in a history of being unpredictable. To decide at the state is going to spend another half million dollars on the man who undoubtedly deserves to spend the rest of his life behind bars. Hopefully, she sees what we see, that there is no justification that would warrant a new trial for ELEC.

Lunashark reporter Beth Brayden checked in with the Attorney General's Office on Wednesday to get an update on where ELEC's hearing for a new trial stands. As of now, there are no hearing schedule. In the AG's office said that they do not believe there will be a hearing until the new year. If and when it does, we will be there. Stay tuned, stay pesky, and stay in the sunlight. And Merry Christmas from all of us at Luna Shark. True Sunlight is a Luna Shark production created by me, Manny Matney, and co-hosted by journalist Liz Farrell.

Learn more about our mission and membership at lunasharkmedia.com. In eruptions provided by Luna and Jo Pesky. www.interruptionsprovidedviluna and Joe pesky.