Murdaugh Murders Podcast - TSP #32 - FOIA Around And Find Out… New Videos Shed Light On Murdaugh Murders

Episode Date: January 4, 2024

After examining exclusive documents and videos from the early days of SLED’s case, True Sunlight Co-hosts Mandy Matney and Liz Farrell are wondering if there’s more to what happened after Maggie and Paul were killed”? As we watched certain videos appear on a November 2023 episode of Dateline, our reporter Beth Braden got right on that and FOIA’d for them. These videos are important because as much as the bad guys want us to move on from this investigation… There are a lot of unanswered questions about what happened in the immediate hours following Maggie and Paul Murdaugh’s murders.  We will be posting the full videos – and access to all reports we received in the FOIA request – to the Luna Shark Premium feed on January 4th for Soak Up the Sun members only and we’ll publish to all members later on.  The videos provide unmatched insight into the Murdaugh’s mysterious world and who these people really are – in the same way the jailhouse phone calls gave us a deeper understanding of the players involved and the games Alex plays with them. And we're breaking it all down here on the first episode of 2024. We plan to continue to grow Luna Shark Media through Membership because we believe in the future of journalism and the more members who join the more journalists we can hire to dig into new cases around the country where crime meets corruption. This year we have exciting plans for premium featuring fresh and exclusive content and access to our growing live event schedule.  In January we’re offering your first month of Soak Up The Sun membership for 50% off and our SUNscribers will get an email this Friday for 50% off their first three months of Soak Up The Sun Membership. So join our email list to get that special offer for first time members. Join Luna Shark Premium today at Lunashark.Supercast.com. Premium Members also get access to searchable case files, written articles with documents, case photos, episode videos and exclusive live experiences with our hosts on lunasharkmedia.com all in one place. CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3BdUtOE. And for those just wanting ad-free listening without all the other great content, we now offer ad-free listening on Apple Podcast through a subscription to Luna Shark Plus on the Apple Podcasts App. Or become a member on YouTube for exclusive videos and ad-free episodes. SUNscribe to our free email list to get alerts on bonus episodes, calls to action, new shows and updates. CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3KBMJcP Visit our new events page Lunasharkmedia.com/events where you can learn about the upcoming in-person and virtual appearances from hosts! And a special thank you to our sponsors: Microdose.com, PELOTON, and VUORI. Use promo code "MANDY" for a special offer! *This episode contains strong language For current & accurate updates: TrueSunlight.com facebook.com/TrueSunlightPodcast/ Instagram.com/TrueSunlightPod Twitter.com/mandymatney Twitter.com/elizfarrell youtube.com/@LunaSharkMedia Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Metrolinx and cross-links are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton Cross-town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, this trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals, be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. I don't know if Team Murdoch really wants us looking closer at the murder investigation. But since they now are demanding a new trial, we've foiled around and found out.

After examining exclusive documents and videos from the early days of Sled's case, we are wondering if there's more to what happened after Maggie and Paul were killed. My name is Manny Matney. This is True Sunlight, a podcast exposing crime and corruption previously known as the Murdock Martyrs podcast. True Sunlight is a Luna Shark production, written with journalist Liz Farrell. [♪ Music playing in background, [♪ Music playing in background,

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[♪ Music playing in background, [♪ [♪ Music playing in background, [♪ [♪ Happy New Year from all of us at Luna Shark. It is wild to me that this is the third year we get the privilege to say that to y'all. It is truly an honor every week. I get behind a microphone to tell y'all about stories that matter. And I hope that I'm starting to sound like a broken record by saying thank you, because I'll never take this for granted, and I want you to know that. I have been especially grateful for our supporters in the past week. As all the hate and vitriol we have seen in the past two years came to an ugly peak, and finally, everything became clear as we uncovered the two main culprits behind an online hate campaign targeting myself, Liz, David, Sandy Smith, our team, our friends, our supporters, and so many others.

I don't want to get into the details. The details are on our personal Instagram accounts if you want to know more about what's going on there. But we want to say that we know who it is and accountability will come. We are working on that. I feel like the final cloud has lifted after a very dark period of time in my life, and we can finally feel safe enough to do our jobs again. We think, well, we hope, that y'all will start to see positive changes in our work now that we close that dark chapter. Also, I'm taking a hiatus from Twitter, as I noticed the hate campaign lived largely there and on Reddit, and it was severely damaging to my mental health to even log in. So my New Year's goal is to stay off Twitter as much as possible and spend more

time in safer places like Luna Shark Discord, Threads, and Instagram. So boy, brighter days are ahead, starting with this episode. In November, the Mardock murders was the subject of an episode of Dateline and before the episode even ran when just the promos were airing, our group chat at Luna Shark was on fire. Why? Because in the teaser, we saw that date line had gotten recordings of sleds interviews with Randy, John Marvin, and Buster Murdoch, which had never been aired before. We didn't know they existed. Nor do we think that they would be available for FOIA. So naturally, our reporter Beth Brayden got right on that and FOIA'd for them. In the meantime, Dateline actually ended up

running very little of that footage. Right before the New Year, our FOIA came in. And just as we suspected, there was a lot more to this story. There always is. there was a lot more to this story. There always is. These videos are important because as much as the bad guys want us to move on from this investigation, there are a lot of unanswered questions about what happened in the immediate hours following Maggie and Paul's murders. We know who murdered Maggie and Paul, but do we know exactly what Solicitor Duffy Stone's role was in the investigation before he recused himself?

Do we know for a fact that no one helped cover up the murder? As Team Murdock funds the expensive quest to get Eric Murdock a new trial, I'm wondering if they actually want the eyes of the world on this investigation again. Because like we said, there are a lot of questions. Like, what exactly happened during the investigation that made sled reopen Steven Smith's case? How did that come up? As we brace for the worst case scenario, meaning another Murdoch trial because elic Murdoch still will be running the justice system, I would imagine Dick and Jim will rely heavily on the sloppy investigation defense, which was pretty much their best argument in round one. But was the investigation intentionally sloppy because some people made it that way.

The videos also provided unmatched insight into the Murdoch's mysterious world and who these people are, in the same way that the jailhouse phone calls gave us a deeper understanding of the players involved in the games that Alec plays with them. In the videos, naturally, the family looks beleaguered. They weren't just mourning Maggie and Paul. They were also mourning the impending death of their patriarch, Randolph Murdoch III, who would die mere hours after the three men sat with sleds separately. It was June 10, just three days after Maggie and Paul were murdered.

And all three were dressed neatly, and though they each broke down and tears several times, they seemed, like we said, coached. Or at least aware that there was someone to protect in this. Before we get into it, we want to point out a few things to pay attention to throughout.

There was a lot of footage hours. So we tried to limit it to the most critical moments for the public feed, and we will be posting the full videos and access to all the reports that we received in the FOIA request to the Luna Shark Premium feed on January 4th for soak up the Sun members only, and we will publish for all members later on. Luna Shark Premium members will also hear an extended version of this episode. We are posting this content only to Premium

because we want to continue to grow Lunashek because we believe in the future of journalism in the more members who can join the more journalist week and higher to dig into new cases around the country where crime meets corruption. This year we have exciting plans for premium, featuring fresh and exclusive content and access to our growing live event schedule.

Essentially, Luna Shark Premium is going to be THE PLACE this year for all things truth, justice and sunlight. And this full video release is just the beginning. In January, we are offering your first month of Soak Up the Sun membership for 50% off. And, our Sun scribers will get an email this Friday for 50% off their first three months of Soak Up the Sun membership. So be sure to join our email list to get that special offer for first time members. And again, support our mission by clicking the links in the description

to join Luna Shark Premium today. Some of what we left out includes the full scope of examples in which Sled was not just being careful with the family, meaning being respectful of their losses, but they were being deferential. At one point in his interview, John Marvin even had to tell the sled agent, look, I don't need the gentle touch. Go ahead and ask me whatever you want. Now, that's also a common strategy with the Murdoch family.

Give the appearance of being an open book, of being cooperative, of being understanding that these people have a job to do. While in the meantime, there are strings being pulled in the background, and considerations being paid every step of the way. Another thing we've learned in these videos is just how privileged and chaotic Paul and Buster's lives were. They traveled across the state extensively, following college sports, and hanging out with friends, staying in the upstates,

staying at the beach, staying at Mozel, staying at the apartments that each young man maintained in Columbia. They also each had at least two vehicles that they considered theirs. And they didn't really work. There was one point when the sled agent asked Buster about his job at Wild Wing, and Buster was like, I don't know, I made calls, and then I had to go to party city, and then this happened. Meaning, he'd only worked one day before the murders. The slid agent was like, oh, did you work before that?

And Buster, who would graduate college three years earlier, with no awareness was like, no. During the interviews, we also got a closer look at just how present 14th Circuit Solicitor Duffy Stone's team was in the investigation. Remember, Duffy is a prosecutor. His investigators are supposed to be prepping cases for prosecution, not to be conducting boots on the ground investigations into murders. This is the only case where it seems that Duffy and his entire investigation team were on the scene for multiple days.

In one video, we can even see his investigator, Dylan Hightower, exit one of the vehicles next to where Buster was being interviewed. At the end of Buster's interview, he gets out of the car and Ellic is right there, and so is JoJo Woodward, who was another one of Duffy's Goons' squad members. Another thing to note is that Buster was the only person to have a lawyer present during his interview. I think you'll understand why by the end of this episode. Who was his lawyer? Well, that was Danny Henderson.

The PMPAD partner who had sat in the back of the vehicle when Sled was interviewing Alec on the night of the murders, and who Mark Tinsley had said Alec feared the most when it came to complying with the subpoena for his financial records in the boat crash case. Dianne, as you'll see, had much more input into Buster's interview than he did, Alec's. Another thing we noticed is that Buster's video seemed to be much more redacted than Randy's and John Marvin's in terms of the gaps of silence, in which his responses about friends' names and locations were muted. This could be because different people did the redactions, but we couldn't help but wonder if it was more in line with what seems like a consistent response to Buster, which has been to treat him, a grown

man, like he's a child, where they might have just gone to greater lengths to protect the information. And lastly, beyond the difference paid to the family, the repeated apologies for asking basic investigatory questions, the repeated time-sled agents assured the family that they were checking out other leads. There were multiple examples where John Marvin and Randy seemed to be setting the scene for future accusations of a sloppy investigation by Sled and the Colloting County Sheriff's Office. It's almost like they knew then that Alec would for sure one day be standing accused of killing his wife and son. So the interviews were with Randy John Marvin and Buster, but in each one there was someone else present and that was the Murdoch

family name. Here is led agent Charles Gent interviewing Buster. I am going to have to ask a lot of questions. You got, you're trying to hear with you and I'm sure he'll fight up if ever he needs to. I'll expect him to. But for you, even what I want you to understand is, I mean, your family is in some ways no different of mine, no different of Katie's.

We have our good, we have our bad. Well, make your family maybe a little bit different is that your family is very well known and are other things associated with them. Because of that, people talk, people have rumors out there, people make things up, they don't have anything to talk about. It's kind of surprising to say this, but there was no elephant in the room. The family's status was not only acknowledged by Sled, the family was aware of it too, and they used it when they could, but in the most palliative ways. Now, most families who are in this situation where a loved one never mind two loved ones have been murdered. They want answers.

They want investigators to keep them in the loop as much as possible. They want to sure and says that investigators are working the case to the fullest extent. But that's not the vibe here. The vibe is keep us in the loop so we know where your heads are at and maybe we'll keep you in the loop about what we're finding. Here's Danny Henderson toward the end of Buster's interview. And we understand y'all've got an investigation, dude. We're not trying to read that or ask you to give us any special papers. We're just eating anything y'all could share. You don't need to share it, but just with the fam or share it, just with the family.

Yeah, yeah. You don't have to do it to a crowd. No, no, no. Yeah, like. You don't have to do it to a crowd. Yeah, like what I can let you just sort of. And we'll get into that. But I can tell you that we have been working on stop on this. We are considering every single possibility, every aspect down there. And as these things are coming up, and we're sending people to track down leaves

and run them down, and just like every best patient, you get something a lot times you fall upon it, doesn't necessarily pan out the beast something but it doesn't remember the old intense We get up off a bridge for two hours Move all that And I have seen some stuff and I've seen stuff that was attributed to law enforcement. It is absolutely false Yeah, there's absolutely speculation It was attributed to law enforcement that it's absolutely false. Yeah, it is absolutely speculation. Absolutely.

We were grateful for you being up for the delicate on that. Jumped off a bridge. That is quite the expression. Okay, what happened the night before these interviews? Well, a local news agency, citing unnamed law enforcement sources, said that Eric Murdock was considered a person of interest in the murders. Additionally, they posted a story saying there were two different weapons used in the murders. I should note though, they had also published an

unnamed source saying that Eric had an iron-clad alibi. Ah, memories. I can't prevent it if either somebody makes a comment to somebody who doesn't have the same. The other comment that's been extremely troubling and I'll just tell you that we talked about. I didn't think it's an

event. There was a statement from either slid or from the share trouble. Some apologize. I'm not being co-ed, don't remember which. There was no reason for the public to be concerned. Team Murdoch really did not like that the College and County Sheriff's Office had told the Post and Carrier that there was no danger to the public. The sled agent told Danny that it was a poor choice of words, but again, from the moment

Ellic engaged law enforcement the night of the murders, he was telling them that Paul and Maggie were targeted for something related to the boat crash victims. Targeted. That means there's no danger to the public. So, I'm really sick of law enforcement not making that point. By the way, that info came from Elich and it was their responsibility to pass it on to the public so that they wouldn't worry about their own safety. You'll also remember during the trial. Ellic's team used the, quote, no danger to the public remark, as proof that Sled had tunnel vision early on and had zeroed in on Ellic Murdoch and only Ellic Murdoch as the suspect and considered no one else. Well, you'll see a whole lot of proof today

that that wasn't at all the case. John Marvin also tried his hand at getting more information from Sleck. Here he is talking to Sleck agent Ryan Kelly. You know, and I respect the part. I understand you can't give but so much. But, you know, just what you just said is, you know, when you said, you know,

we've already met with some of the folks from the boat. That's, you know, that's some of the questions that are in our minds. Yeah, I mean, you know, of course, we know you're doing a good job, but we know you're doing it right. But here in you say that, you know, we've made, we've made that kind of that. That's, it's reassuring. Yes. And so, I mean, just like you said, there is the situation where they hit and run. There is a situation with the boat. like you said, there's the situation where they hit and run. There's the situation in the boat.

A hit and run. Are they referring to, don't worry, we'll get to that. Unfortunately, there are a couple instances where Paul has kind of been involved in circumstances, whether he's responsible or not, whatever that's not for us to decide. But there's a lot of strings for us to pull on. Right. And sometimes that takes time. You know, I know yoga

do you best and you know, just as much as y'all can do to help us heal, I guess, is what I'm really moved through this. And I mean, I heart breaks for Mr. Alex and for the rest of the family. Mind you, the family.

Mind you, the family wanted sled to give them information, but as you'll see in a bit, the family really has no information to give to sled. It was a constant back and forth. They would point law enforcement away from them, but not toward any one person specifically, at least not in any meaningful way. Ultimately, the family's main issue seemed to be with public relations and how they were being viewed by the public. Here's Randy giving us some real insight into how they see themselves and what a threat social media was to them.

They wanted to get ahead of more rumors. You know, and if you read the media, you would think that our family has a bunch of enemies. You know, our family has done well. But it's because of respect that you earned. It's not because of some weapon you wield. You got a sword or sort of junkie. You know what? You do a good job and you treat people with respect. And it sees people that hide behind the computer screen

that, you know, it's the minority voice. Oh, Randy, your family was in charge of the solicitors office for a hundred years. And you honestly think y'all have no enemies. Come on, man. So, in John Marvin's interview, Agent Kelly seeks to assure him that sled will help the family get their answers as soon as possible.

Uh, and at this point, every little bit will help. Um, you know, we can't, uh, I wish it was like it is on television. You can just, you know, take a picture and have an exam and then boom, you get this all been a nice 44 minute episode. But if someone out is this person's hiding in the plane site, you know, they're driving around. They're walking around right now and probably paying close attention to this and anything we can do to help identify that person would be helpful. Okay. anything we can do to help identify that person would be helpful. Okay, so. And there they were, paying close attention indeed. Right outside the vehicle Buster was sitting in was none other than

Elick Murdoch, waiting to do a little meet and greet with Buster's sled agent. Here he is, greeting sled agent Katie McHallister, she's the agent who allowed John Marvin and at least one PMPD partner to accompany her on her search of the house at Mozel, like that was totally normal. Right, see, yes sir. I hate that it's under these circumstances.

I'm going to go and walk back. Yes sir, that's me. The red hair gives me away. That's right. That's something y'all look forward in this family. He's kind of a match. And Dick Harpoutian wanted us to believe that these deferential, tiptoeing agents were out to get Alec when it was more like they were meeting a celebrity

for the first time. So one of the biggest bombshells to come out of these interview tapes is something that has been whispered about for a long time. How did John Marvin get to Mozel? When did he go? And why was Yemmese Police Chief Greg Alexander involved? A reminder as to who Greg Alexander is.

Remember when both Ellic and John Marvin made a point to let the jury know that their family was close personal friends with Greg? Remember how greasy that felt, how pointed, as if they were talking to one person, in particular even. In 2010, Greg Alexander, then in captain with the police department, was accused of stealing $10,000 and $748 from the agency's evidence safe in two separate incidents. He was one of two employees to have had access to that safe, though he denied taking money.

He failed a polygraph administered to him by sled. He was later charged with one count of misconduct in office and two counts of breach of trust by the Attorney General's office. And his trial was held in Hampton County where Elyk and his father apparently sat behind Greg for support. That's right, Elyk and Randolph too. Badge caring members ofuffy Stoan's 14th Circuit Solicitor's Office, whose family had decided who would and wouldn't be prosecuted in five counties for nearly a century. They sat in a 14th Circuit courtroom to support a man being prosecuted. The Hinton County jury found Greg not guilty of two of the charges and the AG's office

dismissed the third charge. Greg was then reinstated by the police agency. He then became chief. Shortly after the murders, he received a $5,000 payment from Elic that Greg said was alone to his father. He was just the past through a guy. Greg insists there was nothing and proper going on there. Then he ran for Sheriff of Hampton County, but lost. Among his donors were several members of PMPED. Speaking of PMPED, you might also remember Greg Alexander's name from Nathan Tutin's testimony during the trial. When he told the court that as a runner for PMPED from 2019 to 2022, he would frequently cash checks for Alec and bring the cash back to Alec's office, where sometimes he'd

encounter Corey Fleming, Alec's office, where sometimes he'd encounter Corey Fleming, Alec's best co-conspirator, and Greg Alexander. When Jim Griffin crossed examine Nathan, he, in the words of the Daily Beast, which covered this very aspect of the trial, quote, waited no time to shut down any notion that the money was going to Greg. Greg wasn't on trial, so I'm not sure why Jim cared so much about that. It's worth noting that the $5,000 loan isn't the only loan that Greg has taken out in the last few years. According to record searches, Greg Alexander also appears to have taken out two Kubota loans after the murders. Kubota is a brand of farm equipment, like the kind John Marvin carries at his equipment rental shop for instance.

Okay, back to the videos. During his interview with Slat, John Marvin described the very strange game of musical cars he played the night of the murders. We'll have him explain it first before we break it down. So Monday morning, he gets a little bit, So my brother Randy calls me. My dad has a doctor's appointment in Savannah. And it's a long story. He's been battling all kinds of issues, cancers, and just got out to hospital on Sunday. But he has an appointment,

a follow-up appointment, Monday. And it turns out it's earlier than we anticipated and I was scheduled to drive him that afternoon. Randy Cosmins says meet me in Ridgeland, I'm going to have daddy. We'll go swap cars and you take him on to Savannah. Okay. And so we did that. We made it.

How am I going to go off the ribs and then I drove him to Savannah. Dr. appointment, what are Dr. Jackson out? It says man, we got to get you into hospital. So we spent all afternoon getting him checked into the hospital. As the evening later, indeed, now I'm probably less Savannah, five, probably five-ish in my mom's car, because my brother had given me my mom's car with my dad. My brother took my truck back to my parents house right here in Elmita.

So I leave there a call pole and I said, man, you know, you go back to Hampton and I he said, yes, I said, if you can wait, take my mom's car to Alameda, drop it off, get my truck, bring my truck in in the morning. And then, you know, I'll drive your truck to work and we'll, you know, be back in our own vehicles. Okay. And did that happen? Yes. Well did that happen?

Yes. Well, so what? All that transpired in tool, not swapping cars back in the following morning. Okay. So he took my mom's car, dropped it at Al Mita. Al Mita's where my parents moved. Okay.

Yeah. Got my truck, drove it to, I was presuming that I'm going to drove it to Mozel. Okay. And did you truck with that Mozel. My truck was at Mozel, and his truck is at my house. When I got the call that night from Mellick, of course, the only car that I didn't have my truck. So I get in Paul's truck and start driving it back to Meadella.

So, this is the very first time we're hearing that Paul went to Almeida before he went to Mozel the night he was killed. There is nothing in Sled's timeline to suggest that Paul did this, though, meaning there's nothing in the records that shows Paul picking up John Marvin's truck at Almeida that night, but the truck was at Mozel. And there was also no indication that Miss Libby's car was at Mozel as far as we could tell. During the trial, John Marvin was asked to explain how Paul's truck ended up on the side of the road. Now this was his beater truck. It was a 2008 Ford F250 diesel that he used when his regular truck

was in the shop, which his was at the time of the murders. Did the farm truck break down? It did. I'd end up getting to Mozo. Well, so let me back up and say, so the route from my house down in Okidae Bufert takes me to Kusachi, and I get on 95 to go to Yemmase and get an all from coming up that way. Well, another close family friend,

his name is Greg Alexander. He is the chief of police in Yemmase. I reach out to him and I just say, Greg, I gave him a, said something bad had happened. Again, I don't know when I was told about the sheets, but I told him I said, listen, something bad happened. We got to get up there. When I get to Yemmase, can you please help make sure I get

to Mozel, because this truck's sputtering, and I knew it wasn't good. And he met me at Gimma C. And he fell in behind me and we started driving until he finally passed me in Vaughanville. Now let's hear from David who is going to read to you from one of the incident reports in the murder's investigation. This is a supplemental narrative from a college county sheriff's office deputy named William

Polk. On June 8, 2021, I, Lieutenant Polk, along with Lieutenant Crosby, located one of the victim's vehicles, Paul Murdock, 2008 Ford F-250, White Over T, bearing license plate, I-Z-F-269. In front of 4736, highway 63, Hampton County unoccupied. The vehicle was facing in the direction toward Walterborough, South Carolina. Luna Shark Journalist, Beth Brayden, mapped out all of this for us so that we could try

and understand all the routes. And good news for premium numbers, this map is another feature that's available for you. So let's talk about why getting this straight was important. But first I want to note that John Marvin Murdoch has not been charged with anything and there have been no formal accusations made about his actions on the night of the murders. But there have been questions since the very beginning. In fact, both Randy and Buster were asked about the truck John Marvin was driving that night. Why? Well, the whole thing is very confusing. Again, there's no evidence of Paul going to El Mita that night, yet John Marvin's truck was at Mozel. This

is not something that was brought up at trial, by the way. At no point did the prosecution point out that there was any discrepancies here. We're just saying we don't see where in the testimony or in the documents we've received from Arfoia, which included the full timeline of events for the evening, which plotted out every move Paul seemed to make that night. It says that Paul went to Almida. Another reason there have been questions could be because there are three suggested routes to Mozel from John Marvin's house in Oka-T. John Marvin didn't take any of them. Instead,

he opted for a route that did not significantly lengthen his trip, but it did take him past Almita. We know where Paul's truck was found broken down, and that's between Almita, where Alex parents lived, and Mozel. And it was pointing toward Walter Barrow, which means it was traveling north east. To get to Mozel, John Marvin would have taken a left off of that highway had he not broken down. Now, John Marvin lives south east of Mozel and would have been traveling north west to get there, meaning the fastest most direct route does not pass by Almeda, and in fact he has to travel more westward to get there. Meaning the fastest most direct route does not pass by Almeida and in fact he has to travel more westward to get there. So why did John Marvin take the Almeida route? That's the big

question. Also, can we talk about how adorable it is that John Marvin wants us to believe that he called the chief of police for an escort but that the chief of police drove behind him? Come on now. Ella was driving all over the 14th with two solicitors badges and a set of blue lights on his car for no official on the book's recent but sure. Chief Alexander drove behind you to escort you to the murders. Now, what does all of this mean? We do not know. It could mean nothing but it explains the questions we kept hearing behind the scenes over the past few years. Questions that included the notion that

John Marvin or Greg Alexander could be in some sort of trouble. But this is all we know. It's merely an inconsistency that we're obligated to note. Okay, let's talk about what the family had to say about Ellic. Because again, it appears that they were very consciously trying to point sled away from Ellic,

which makes sense given the media coverage from the night before. However, knowing what we know about Ellic, there were additions of him did not age well. Here is our favorite characterization of Ellic from John Marvin. He's wrong, solid, okay. And now let me ask you, I don't know him,

but anytime you have someone who's obviously something happened on this property. And it's, it has, has Alex behavior last couple of months. You said he's seen rock solid. And he has ever voiced any concerns about being in fear for safety or anything like that. Nothing that I would remember. It must not have been significant if he doesn't.

No, he would have said so. He's just not that type. He's a strong one. He's a strong one. Well, and I mean, any issues with alcohol, medication, anything like that, that I'm aware of okay are you a weary all drink but most sure but you're all adults it's like it's it's one thing to but to any any drinking to excess okay okay is he a liquor drinker is it like a is it a beer is it you know he drank like if he were on the boat he probably would drink beer if he were You know in either he would have a drink possibly, okay

Would you ever would you never think that he would drink an excess? No, I mean okay No more than I would sure and again, I know it's tough You know, but we just want to get a better understanding now. No, he does not have a drinking problem at all. I mean, that's without a doubt. All right. And no, no medications or anything like that that he's been taking or.

OK, OK. Ah, yes. He was a rock solid man without a substance abuse problem at all. And we'll be right back. Another big question Randy John Marvin and Buster were asked how was Maggie and Alex relationship? Were there any issues, marital issues between Alex and Maggie? Not that I'm aware of. Okay. Any, any issues, marital issues between Alec and Maggie? Not that I'm aware of. Okay. Any issues that are developed between Paul and Alec?

No, that I'm aware of. And any issues that may have developed between Paul and Maggie? Like, yeah, not that I'm aware of. Okay. And I know that we've talked about this before. Any issues between any of the three Alec, Maggie and Paul, any issues that may have developed with anybody that we haven't talked about, anybody, I mean, I know that I'm aware of.

Paul was pretty open with me about most things. And if Paul knew something, I probably would have known. Okay. When sled agent Joe Abbeyall Day asked Randy about Maggie and Alex relationship, he seemed to bristle. Training lightly, I don't want to ask too many questions, you're too far in the weeds with things, but, um, about Alex and his family, particularly his relationship with Maggie. I don't have it straight.

I don't have it straight. Is Maggie and Alex together still? Or are they... What do you mean? Are they still married? Or do you know anything about, you know, their family situation? Before this event? Yes, before this event.

Yeah, they're still married. They're still living together. Far from that, they don't have any problems. Yeah. No married or what issues or anything like that. I'm sorry. I'm trying to question, but we've got to ask them none of that. I'm aware of it all. And I would know. Yeah, absolutely. You would know. It was, I mean, yes, you know, but I'm going to be going met. It was first time we've met and it's obvious that you and I were very close. The office. So I would expect him to, you know, if there were any issues with the family, he would probably share that with me. I think you would see it, too. Yeah. So none of that.

Obviously Paul had his own set of problems. And I'm not, we're not here to add, you know, bring up old events or talk about, you know, the troubles he was in or you might have, out, you know, Paul had his own center issues. You know that. Yeah, I don't know if I call it that. Paul made some bad decisions one night and they led to a grave set of circumstances. He put his friends in a bad,

bad situation and with events that I don't fully understand that accident happened. I don't know exactly how it happened but I know it happened because of what he had done earlier. You know what? So it was became issues but yeah and obviously it's so wonderful yeah who get shirt off his bag so two things here one is the very careful way that Randy dances around Paul's guilt in the boat crash you'll remember that while Alec was insisting that these murders had to do with the boat crash he was more interested in clearing Paul's name in the crash rather than finding out who killed his family.

Randy is sort of the unknown factor in this family. We've spoken to people who were close to Randolph, and their take on Randy was that he was always polite, but kind of standoffish, not interesting or impactful the way Alec was in social situations. The word awkward was used a lot. But one thing we know about Randy is that his wife is related to Miley Altman, one of the boat crash survivors. Also, we're told Maggie was not particularly fond of Randy's wife. That she viewed her as a townie of sorts, so when the boat crash happened, Randy and Kristi reportedly

stopped coming to social events with the family. So it's odd to hear Randy Tiptoe around the thing that his wife's family knows to be true. Which is that Paul was driving the boat that night and that the Murdoch family, Alex specifically, seems to have tried to pin it on Connor Cook, my least partner. That brings us to the second thing. Randy is saying he was close to Alex. It's kind of funny, actually, because here's David with the first few paragraphs of a story about Randy that ran in the New York Times just four days after Ellic was found guilty. This story always struck us as a very obvious save-the-law firm story orchestrated by a public relations agency. Here it is.

Hampton, South Carolina. On the surface, the lives of Alex Murtak and his older brother Randy appeared to follow the same track. They were born two years apart, both went to the University of South Carolina for college at law school, and the two worked as partners at the family firm that had grown out of the century-old practice founded by their great grandfather. But even in college, it was clear they were different. Alex was briefly on the football team and a regular at college parties. Randy, a self-described hometown boy, would go back home to Hampton every weekend to hunt and fish.

In recent years, their offices were close enough that Randy could hear his brother's constant phone calls, but they rarely spent any time alone together. It's not like there was some problem with our relationship, necessarily. Randy Marduk said, we just really weren't alike, so we didn't do stuff together. Brutal, right? Another thing that struck us as odd, and frankly, annoying in the videos, is how the three men seem to be specifically trying to address various aspects of the investigation

that could harm Elik. Remember, this was only three days after the murders. It's interesting to see what their thinking was. For example, Buster tried to downplay Paul's reputation of always having shotguns and rifles in his truck. Why? Perhaps because those weapons appeared now to be missing. John Marvin, the guy who told the world about his brother pooing his pants in a car, did not appear to get the memo on this. Um, and do you know if they kept any guns back at the kennels? I don't know. I've never, I've never, they don't have a gun rack. This obvious

when you pull up or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but like I said, I mean, lay it around. I would say it's very possible. Yeah. And with Maggie ever, you know, Maggie, but she carry a gun when she, I don't think Maggie was a hunter or shooter. I think she's okay. Okay. So, ladies, lady, but if if Paul was coming from or shooter. I think she's, okay. So, it was a lady's lady. But if Paul was coming from the house down at the kennel to expect him to have a gun, I mean, he wouldn't carry a gun just because he was going there. But if he were in his truck and he's riding the property,

I would assume that he's not going to ride that property without a gun, you know, and just, and not for safety reasons for, you know, again, it's loaded with hogs and, it's practical property. You know, it's just kind of what you do. I mean, you know, again, just loaded with hogs and for practical purposes. You know, it's just kind of what you do. I mean, I understand, I understand. You have 1700 acres. Yeah, I mean, you're gonna drive around

and you're gonna have, you know, because if you have to get out for something, that's right, whether you shoot snakes or whatever. But yeah, it would, it would amaze me or it would have, I would be surprised if he were in a vehicle riding the property and didn't have a gun. Okay. I wouldn't do it.

Yeah. Now, without getting into the play by play on the whole blackout lie again, you know, the lie that Ellic initially told about they're not being every placement blackout belonging to Paul. Here is Buster, who sure can itemize each weapon both boys used. Also, saying there was not a third blackout rifle, and therefore, no missing family weapon. He tells the sled agent that he and Paul both got blackouts

for Christmas years before, and that Paul's went missing within a year of that. The sled agent tries to get to the bottom of it. How about your brother? You know, do you have any idea of what going to be on there?

Which ones were his? A little bit more than I did. I know he's got the same thing, 1220 age. I think his or her both, but now I know he's got. Take both of the, you have 20 years of ready. You think he's got the same thing, 1220 gauge. I think his are both Benelli, I know his yacht. Take both of them. You have 20 gauge, Braddy, you think he's got 20 gauge?

I know he's got, I think he's got a 20 gauge. I think he's got a 20 gauge Benelli. I don't know, because a lot of them dad buys them. We just use them as like commutal. Yeah. And but the ones that, I guess he said, well, what would be his is, I know he's got a 20 gauge barred, the same one is mine.

We just have two of them and then he's got a 12 gauge vanilla And he's got It's got a couple he's got a 270 short mag. He's got a Seven millimeter 08 7mm 08mm. And obviously he had one of the blackouts that is missing. You know when that went missing? No, I know it wasn't far off from when we got him in Christmas, maybe six months to, maybe two a year after that.

So it's, you know, multiple years it's been gone. Yeah. You said one year, Christmas is your same year. It would have been the Christmas of... It would have been the Christmas of 2018. Okay, so one big question everyone has is what exactly happened to Randolph that week? It went from Eric getting texts from his brother the day of the murders saying that his dad's illness probably wasn't cancer but rather pneumonia. The family seemed hopeful by that. But then just two days later Randolph was not only released from the hospital, he had died at home. Here is Randy telling a sled agent about what happened when Randolph heard about the murders.

It's like, dad didn't take it off. No, he didn't take it well, but he was so sick. He was so sick that he... I could tell he was upset, but you were not have known if you were sitting beside us. In fact, you would think my daddy wasn't very intelligent because he said, what happened to somebody? You know, it's like he couldn't quite put it together, but when I told him, he also had just come out of a procedure, he's coming off of anesthesia

and my dad is not a known intelligent person. It's like he was, he's gay. It's like he couldn't believe it. It was like the rest of us, but also like he couldn't, he wasn't comprehending it. And later, you could tell he was upset later as it. He was able to comprehend it because he was off at AmnestyJ and maybe it was sinking

and I don't have any event. I didn't tell him when I first got there. I was asked by the doctor not to tell him because he was in a fairly fragile state. Then Randy told the sled agent about the decision to bring his father home that Tuesday night. It's unfortunate. Proced procedure confirmed that treatment will go help him.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. So he and I discussed whether he comes home to death, we decided that he would. And we came home that night on hospice, or no one we would start hospice. I'm not a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person.

I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person.

I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. It's not the fruit family. Appreciate you sharing that with us. You need to, but thank you very much for doing that. We'll be right back. Lastly, we wanna talk about other suspects. Like we said, even though the family was demanding that sleds share information with them, they weren't all that great at giving information to sled.

Not even the basic information about what Maggie was like or what Paul was like or who they talked to or where they went. More than that, it was very clear that they did not fear for their lives, generally speaking after the murders. In fact, John Marvin stayed at Mozel the night of the murders and he told Sled it didn't even occur to him that it was unsafe until his wife said something to him. But there was one Murdoch family member

who understood the situation to be very dangerous. Before Randy got to Mozel that night, his youngest daughter, a teenager, called 911, tearfully telling them that two people had been shot and that law enforcement needed to get to Mozel. She was scared for her father. She wanted to make sure that the police

would get there first. As he did many times during his interview, here is Randy giving the same old vague line about unspecified threats. So I don't know, I don't know of any of these, but I do know that Paul would get threats all the time. Lots of them. It's what I'm told secondhand. And I remember, however long ago, eight months and year, you're going to have whatever I don't even know how long

it's been since the podium accident. You know, ask a ball about me. He said, yeah, but it was pretty early on after within the six months of the podium accident. I've heard Alex say that he continues to kill. What does that mean? What does that mean when somebody says, whatever they say, I don't know the context of any of them, but threats.

I don't know. context of any of them, but the threats. You know, I don't know. I learned after the facts. One thing we kept hearing throughout these videos from Riannie and John Marvin is that they were sharing information that they had just learned from Eleg. Meaning, this wasn't historical stuff. These weren't threats that had been plaguing the family. They were just threats, lowercase T. There is nothing, nothing, and John Marvin even comes close to saying as much.

No threats, nothing like that that have come in and nothing, you know, no. And again, I want to be delicate in how I answer, because none of it is anything that stands out in my mind. We always, we'll off the street, we'll have somebody say, well, somebody posted such and such on social media. And you know, over the time, we just kind of shrug it off. So nothing stands out. It's significant to me. Okay. We have not sat down and said, listen, we feel like there's a credible threat. We need to, you know, we need to report it or. Then there was CB row, the groundskeeper, the man who killed the sunflowers, which they talked about a lot. All three Murdoch men gave sled similar stories about how there was an issue with him, but they didn't think it was anything.

John Marvin knew there was a story he was supposed to share about an employee. He couldn't remember the name. Pay particular attention to the last thing that he says. Okay. Are you aware of any of his employees that you have suspicions of? Well, I don't want to use, I wouldn't say suspicion, but the only, the name, and this is all coming up since Monday night is the guy that's working for him out there now, and I've never met him. Okay.

I'm in fact, I don't know his name. I've heard it, and if you said it, I would probably recognize it, but okay. You know, that would be the only person. And what would your concerns be about that person? Just, I mean, what has that person done anything recently that would well Yes, I know so I guess it's easier just to kind of tell you what I know about him and all this is coming since This is not prior to okay, you know, this is we open up these conversations after that accident or after the incident You heard that, right?

He said accident, then corrected it to incident. Now, since the very beginning, but especially since the trial, when we couldn't understand the family's unshakable support of Elic, at least publicly facing, we wondered if Elic might have told one or more of his family members that maybe he accidentally killed Paul or had to kill Maggie because she witnessed it and maybe he didn't want her

to have to live with that. Or maybe he told them that Paul had killed Maggie so Eleg in a fit of rage had shot and killed Paul. The reason we've thought this is because it is a story that would allow Eleg to come close to the truth while I'm listing the loyalty and help of his family. It is a story that would get Elic's sympathy just like the story of his opioid addiction. Now, something that really shocked us, but also not really. While watching these videos, John Marvin was the first person we have seen to bring up the Smith family and potentially point the direction of the Murdoch murders investigation toward them. Remember at this point, there wasn't a single article that mentioned that the Murdoch name was all over the Stephen Smith file.

And no one had written about Stephen Smith at all since 2015. After the boat crash, though, people on social media started talking and posting memes that said Justice for Mallory, Justice for Stephen. A certain subset of listeners out there want to say that the Murdoch family name was only associated because of a story I wrote shortly after the murders in 2021. But look here at John Marvin bringing it up himself before that story was published. Oddly enough, my story was published later that night and I swear none of my sources told me about these interviews at that time.

Have you got any questions, any questions for us? Not so much questions, but one of your agents, the female that I walked the house with in Mosin, what's her name? Right here? Yes, Agent McAllister. McAllister, yeah. She, Katie McAllister. So, and I asked her then I said,

listen, I said, you know, when something like this, when this happened, it, you know, I've kind of gotten a little bit of tidbits of information. I had a guy call me, you know, I wanted to tell her about it, and she, and I thought she was gonna call me back.

And anyway, I had a guy call me, because name is Lawrence Murdoch we're not related okay and he felt he said he read somewhere whether there was anything suspicious to the general public please let us know or let somebody know that's okay he called me and said that he saw a black SUV off a puff of, he lived, I don't know what road it is, but he described it as when you're leaving Hampton, you turn left, it cruck it though, I believe he said. And there were some reference over, over the past several half a year or so about a, a hit and run that supposedly they tried to say that

Paul had something to do with. say that Paul had something to do with or or Buster had something to do with. Lawrence Mertek said he saw a course of black SUV sitting there at the site where I assume there's some type of marker there and he said, John, I don't know where that means anything or not but it was it stood out to me and I wanted to let you know. Okay. And so that's, if you make it get more information from him about it, but that's what he told me. Now, as we said before, we are getting back

into the Steven Smith case soon and we are still asking the public to submit tips to answers for Steven.com to help us with our investigation. But it's really interesting to note that John Marvin brought this up on his own account. Not sure who Lawrence Murdoch is, but we are interested in trying to figure out what they were actually saying here. Sled did follow through with this direction. Remember, a few days later, I wrote a story about how upset Sandy Smith was,

that's like called her, and she thought that they were reopening Stevens investigation. But really, they were just wanting her and her family to come in for questioning in the double homicide. Well, something happened between June 10th and June 20th, when Sled reopened the Stevens' Smith investigation. Sandy was never questioned for the double homicide. Instead, they told her that they were investigating Stephen's death because of something they found during the course of the double homicide. What's weird is that John Marvin and Buster were interviewed

pretty much at the exact same time. And separately, Sled brought up Steven's death with Buster, which again is before my peace ran about the Murdoch's and Steven's misdeck, which was published that night. We want to know that Buster uses a slur here. He's using it in the context of what people were saying to him after the bow crash. We are leaving an end because we think it is important to understand the harassment that Buster experienced. Remember, this was before my piece, the first published story that associated the Murdoch name

with Stephen Smith, ran. Stephen Smith's case was already on Sled's radar. I want to ask you about something, and I want to ask you about something and I want to propose this by saying this is based purely on Rummer and it's not something we're investigating as an agency but it's the end of Smith family. You've very well talked about. I am. I'll say to you please, I'm just a Smith family.

Okay. The boy that right now I got an ambience. Oh. Has anything about that incident come into play in terms of France in terms of your thoughts on this sense that in any in any fact, is there any any part of that, rumors you've heard, accusations, and any threats you've had, are related to that. No, sir. Is there anything you want to elaborate on that? Is anyone ever, any ever question you about that?

Yeah, well, I've read the articles and the rumors and saying that, you know, I've had people understand to think that that's what I've did and I've had people message me and stuff and call me a piece of shit and a murderer and I'm going to fag it and things like that but I've never received a, what you call a formal threat and I haven't heard a lot about it in a while either. That's pretty much that off. I would say that, yes. You say message, you mean, it's like social media messaging? Or yeah, this message, this would be Facebook. And Facebook, I think I got a couple off Instagram as well.

Did you receive any of those kind of messages after the vote? Yes, ma'am. I did. I did very similar. Did you receive any of those kind of messages after the vote? Yes, ma'am. I did. I did very similar. But again, never a formal threat. Anyway, you ever recognized? No, sir.

Never, never anybody that I knew who they were. Do you ever do any kind of looking to see if they were somebody who might have at least been? Nothing else geographically able to carry out a it or something like that. I didn't take much away from it. I figured the people just saying stuff. Have you saved any of that stuff? Screenshot and any other? I haven't saved any of it. It might still be in the you know in the far lowers of my messages but actually to be honest with you I think I've probably deleted some of it, too, because I just didn't enjoy looking at it. This is very understandable.

At the end of the interview, though, Slide asked to download Buster's phone, noting that they might be able to retrieve some of these screenshots showing the abuse he received. Danny Henderson agreed to this only if Jim Griffin, a criminal defense attorney, would be allowed to receive a copy of what was downloaded from Buster's phone. Finally, Danny Henderson wanted it known that the Smith case was not the boat case. The insinuation being, there's no need to resurrect this again. It's almost like he was trying to manage Sled away from it. Agent Gantt tells him that they have to look at all possibilities.

Which is funny, because isn't that what Team Murdoch wanted? Isn't that what the accused said of not doing? right now since the boat. There was a time there about a week, 10, a two week period, where the line between the boat and the Smith thing really got blurred and all mixed up and social data. But then that sort of caught them. But there was a period time, when they were there within several weeks after where the people were associated with the other indigent. Oh, and that's an important distinction to make. The blusters, we sit here, you certainly have a family resemblance to your brother. And while I'm certainly not saying this was the case,

I mean, if someone wore a rewrite the Smith case, as you can see, we did have found out about you properly. Came out looking for you and some kind of scenario like that. I'm not saying that. Certainly I want you to kind of add feelings, but it's a possibility like all possible to talk about it. You can see it or show that. That's why I want to talk to you about if you had any specific people you were concerned about or want that happen. I'm not sure. I wouldn't say I had any concerns about that. Okay. Okay. I wouldn't say I had any concerns about that.

We have a lot more to uncover when it comes to the Steven Smith case. And again, we are excited to start a new investigation. Please, if you know anything about Steven's death, send us a tip at answers for steven.com. And of course, please contact law enforcement at tips at slab.se.gov for a $30,000 reward for information leading to an arrest and a conviction. We want 2024 to be steven's year. And hopefully, the year that Elik Murdoch stops clogging up the state's resources and authorities

finally start holding Elik Murdoch's accomplices accountable. Speaking of, a flurry of documents were filed in Elik Murdoch's quest to get a new trial on Wednesday. Be sure to check your premium feeds tomorrow for a story on the latest there and also where you can see all the new documents. We will be broadcasting the hearing on January 16th to the Luna Shark Premium feed, so be ready for that one, because it'll be a doozy. Stay tuned. Stay pesky. Stay in the sunlight. True Sunlight is a Luna Shark production created by me, Manny Matney, and co-hosted by journalist Liz Farrell. Learn more about our mission and membership at lunasharkmedia.com.

In eruptions, provided by Luna and Jo Pesky. you