Murder In America - EP. 11 KANSAS - The Senseless Clutter Family Murders
Episode Date: March 18, 2021In a small town in Kansas, 4 members of a family are annihilated in their home overnight, sending shockwaves throughout the community, and inadvertently launching true crime entertainment along the wa...y. These are the murders that inspired Truman Capote's infamous true crime novel "IN COLD BLOOD"... listen here to the story, of the CLUTTER FAMILY MURDERS. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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Today's episode, we're going to be talking about an event that shook the whole of America to its core back in the late 1950s,
an event so brutal that it sparked the beginning of true crime entertainment.
This, in fact, is the story that inspired Truman Capote's novel In Cold Blood,
one of the most successful true crime novels of all time.
In Cold Blood was placed on bookshelves across the world, striking fear into every person that was brave enough to read it.
And what really shook people to their core was the fact that the events of the story were true,
and had occurred in Holcomb, Kansas in 1959,
a crime where four members of the clutter family
were brutally murdered in their own home.
You're listening to Murder in America.
Story starts in Holcomb, Kansas in 1959.
Holcomb's population was around 270 at the time,
and it truly represented small town America.
Holcomb sits on the west end of Kansas
and its farmland stretch for miles and miles.
It's the kind of country small town
where when you're walking down the dirt road of Main Street,
you recognize every person that passes, a place where children can play and travel around without supervision,
a place where you could walk to your neighbor's house and borrow eggs and milk.
It was the kind of town where no one locked their doors at night and everyone trusted their neighbors.
I know we've described a lot of towns in this podcast the exact same way,
and it makes you think that maybe these quiet small towns aren't as safe as everyone thinks they are.
And if there's one thing that I've learned throughout my research into true crime is that no town, no matter how small or friendly, is ever safe for monsters.
No family ever thinks that their small town will be invaded by evil.
And this was especially true for the people of Holcomb, Kansas.
Among the families that lived in Holcomb was the Clutter family.
And the clutters were very well respected in their community.
They lived in a large farmhouse on over 600 acres of land, just south of Main Street.
The family patriarch, Herb, was a very hard worker, and throughout his life he had done really well for himself.
Friends of Herb said when he walked into a room, everyone wanted to talk to him.
He was born and raised in Kansas, and he, like his children, grew up on a farm.
He was a bright man and went on to get a bachelor's degree in agriculture at Kansas State.
Around the time that Herb was going to school, he met a local woman named Bonnie Fox, whom he eventually married in 1934.
There are a few things that I want to point out about Bonnie.
In Truman Capote's book in Cold Blood, he describes her very negatively, saying that she was riddled with mental illnesses.
And although Capote did a lot of research for his book, Bonnie's family was outraged by the way that he portrayed her to the world.
Her brother even said, quote, I know who she was.
Other people don't because of that book.
And because of this, we want to describe Bonnie in the way that her family did.
She was respected in her community, kind and extremely loyal.
Everyone said that she was a great host and cared deeply for her friends and family.
She dreamt of becoming a nurse, but due to health reasons, she wasn't able to.
But still, Bonnie really worked hard at whatever she set her mind to and managed to become successful.
Anything her husband was involved in, Bonnie would be right behind him, supporting his every move.
Herb and Bonnie were respected and highly involved in their community.
They were members of the local Methodist church and the Garden City co-op.
and they, together, made names for themselves in Holcomb.
It was well known throughout the town that Herb and his family were wealthy.
He was a very successful farmer, and he was able to provide a good life for his family.
Herb and Bonnie went on to have four children all raised in Kansas.
At the time of our story, in 1959, the family's oldest daughter, Beverly, was off at college
in Kansas City getting a nursing degree.
Their second oldest daughter, Eviana, was living in Nebraska with their husband, so the only
two clutter children still living at the River Valley Farm were Nancy and Kenyon. Nancy was 16 years old
and was the life of the party. She was very bubbly, social, loved big gatherings, and was super friendly
to everybody she met. And above all, she had a very inviting smile, one that attracted people
to her, especially the boys. The Clutter family's youngest child was their 15-year-old son, Kenyon.
Kenyon was usually described by those who knew him as a sweet boy. He was your typical teenager.
But surprisingly, unlike his sister, he wasn't really interested in romantic relationships.
Instead, he invested a lot of his time in 4-H, a program that he and Nancy had been involved in since they were six years old.
It was also said that Nancy and Kenyon had a great brother-sister relationship.
They were only one year apart in age, and like most siblings, they enjoyed teasing one another, but they got along well nonetheless.
The clutters were your typical large family, a family bound together through small-town moral.
hard work, farming, and their love for God.
Like I mentioned earlier, the clutters were deeply involved in the Methodist Church,
and almost every Sunday, Nancy's friend, who was also named Nancy,
would come by her house to pick her up and they would ride to church together.
This particular Sunday was November 15, 1959, a little after 9 a.m.
And Nancy's friend Nancy was driving down the clutter's long driveway
to come pick up her friend like she did every Sunday.
When she pulled up to the house, she hopped out of the car,
walked up to the front door of the clutter residence, and rang the doorbell.
She waited for a minute, but no one answered.
And as she took a look around the property, she noticed that all of their cars were still in the
garage, so they had to be home.
She wasn't concerned at this point and thinks that maybe they just didn't hear her.
So she walks around the back door of the house and knocks, but still no answer.
So the friend Nancy gets into her car and drives to their other friend's house, a girl
by the name of Susan, to see if she'd heard from Nancy.
But when Nancy asked Susan if she had heard from anyone in the clutter family, she tells
are no, and both friends, along with their families, start to get concerned.
They call the clutter's phone from Susan's house to see if they'd answer, but to their dismay,
no one picked up. Now both of these families that know the clutters are starting to get concerned
because they know that they would have answered, both the door and the phone. And the fact that
they didn't respond to either made them think that something was wrong. And since the family's
cars were all there, why weren't they answering? It just wasn't like that.
them. So they decide that they're going to drive back to the clutter house to see what was going
on. And at this point, there's still a glimmer of hope that maybe, just maybe, the clutter
family is just sleeping in. So once again, they arrive at the clutter house and ring the doorbell,
but just like before, no answer. So this time they decided to open the door, which, to their
surprise, was unlocked. As soon as they entered the residence, Susan said, we could see that they
hadn't been out because the kitchen was untouched. There weren't any dishes. Nancy's purse was just
laying next to the back door. It was open. The two girls start yelling Nancy's name. Nancy,
it's time to go to church. But when there was still no answer, the two decide to go up the stairs
to Nancy's bedroom. They slowly walk up the steps, curious to see if their friend is in the
house. Susan was walking ahead of Nancy as they made their way into their friend's bedroom. As Susan
entered through the doorway of the room, she let out a blood-curdling scream and immediately ran backwards
out of the room. Nancy, confused and worried, walks into her room and immediately sees her friend
lying motionless in bed. She walks closer to try and wake her up, but as she gets close, she notices
thick spatters of blood covering the walls near the bed. Nancy's friends run out of the home in absolute
hysterics, and they quickly explain what they saw to their parents, who had been waiting outside
in their cars. One of the girls' fathers runs inside the clutter home to call the police,
But when he goes to dial the number, he notices that someone had cut the phone wires.
At this point, they all knew that something terrible had happened.
So they all get back in the car and they head to the nearest phone to call the police.
Because murder and robbery were crimes truly unheard of in the small little town of Holcomb,
law enforcement immediately rushed over to the clutter house to assess the crime scene.
As they entered the residence, they first made their way up to Nancy's room and confirmed that she was dead.
She had been shot in the back of the head with a shotgun.
And as they start to look a little closer,
they noticed that whoever shot Nancy had also bound her to the bed.
The clutter home was eerily quiet when officers entered,
which didn't sit well with them.
In fact, they knew that this probably meant that the other members of the family were dead too.
So investigators start to walk to the master bedroom of the home where Bonnie and Herb slept.
And as they approach, they find Bonnie, bound and gagged with a,
massive shotgun wound to the side of her head. Next, investigators walked to the basement of the
house looking for Herb and Kenyon, hoping they're alive, but knowing deep down that they probably
aren't. And as they make their way downstairs, they find the body of Kenyon. He was bound to a couch,
gagged, and shot in the head with a shotgun. And lastly, as they're walking through the basement,
they go into the furnace room where they find Herb. He too had been bound, gagged, and shot in the
head with a shotgun. But Erb had one more injury that his three other family members didn't have.
Someone had slit his throat. Investigators were shocked as something like this could happen in Holcomb,
Kansas. Earl Robinson was the sheriff of Holcomb at the time, and he knew the clutter family
very well, so immediately this case was extremely important to him. But he knew that he needed
some outside help, so he called in the Highway Patrol and the Kansas KBI to help he and his officers
with the investigation. The lead investigator of the case was a man named Al Dewey, who actually
attended the same church as the Clutters. And everything I've read about Al Dewee was that he was
fantastic at what he did, and he made sure that no stone would be left unturned while assessing
crime scenes. Under Al's direction, investigators took pictures of all of the bodies, along with
photos of every single room in the house. They were also pretty quickly able to find some
fingerprints and a footprint in the basement. And this footprint was crucial to the investigation,
Because it wasn't just any old footprint.
Whoever was wearing these shoes had stepped in blood,
meaning that it was the perpetrator's footprint.
And luckily, investigators were able to find out
that the brand of the shoe was called a catclaw half-souled boot.
Al Dui stated, quote,
we find that murder is usually committed for a definite cause.
That is, during a robbery, rape, or because of a grudge, end quote.
But these explanations were starting to feel unlikely.
The crimes were too brutal, and Herb and his family were upstanding citizens.
They didn't have any outstanding issues with people, so they were able to rule out that the murders were caused because of a grudge.
There also wasn't any signs of sexual assault on any of the victims, so they were able to rule out rape as well.
So they assumed that the crime had to be motivated by money.
Maybe a robbery gone horribly wrong.
But as investigators made their way through the house, they noticed that the only thing stolen were a pair of binoculars and a small portable radio.
And this discovery caused everyone to scratch their heads.
Why would somebody kill four members of a family in such a brutal manner over binoculars and a radio?
It just didn't make any sense.
That same Sunday morning, at the Methodist Church that the clutters had attended, many members of the congregation said that his
As soon as they walked inside of the church building, they knew that something terrible had happened.
Everybody seemed anxious, and word quickly spread that four members of their congregation,
the respected clutter family, had been brutally murdered in their own home.
It was all anybody could talk about that day.
And as word of the crime spread, paranoia suddenly infiltrated their small town.
No one felt safe.
And in a town where no one used to lock their doors, there was not a door left on locked that night in Holcomb.
Now I'm going to walk you through the people that were heavily investigated for this crime.
The first people that the police looked into were the two oldest clutter sisters, Beverly and Ivana.
As we all know, most people who are murdered are usually killed by people that they know.
It's been that way for a very, very long time.
And because they were the only remaining family, police were forced to look into the sisters.
It also perked police's interest in the girls when they found out that Herb had taken out a four-year-old.
$40,000 life insurance policy the very afternoon before the murders.
Meaning that because he took out that policy, the two oldest sisters would be the ones to inherit the money.
$40,000 in 1959 would equate to about $360,000 in today's time.
Was that enough money for the sisters to kill their entire family?
The police weren't sure.
But after a little digging, they find out that the sisters had good alibis and were completely
devastated by the killing of their family, and they were soon ruled out as suspects.
There was also a man named Joe Berkeley, who was a business associate of Herbs, and at the time of
the murders, it seemed like he had a lot to gain from Herb's death, but investigators quickly
ruled him out because they discovered that he had been on an Army airplane on the night in question.
Another person that was heavily investigated in this case was Bobby Rupp, who was Nancy's
boyfriend at the time of her murder. Bobby and Nancy were in the same grade at their school, and they had
known each other since they were around six years old, and the two were really into each other.
Interestingly enough, Bobby was one of the last people to see the clutter family before they were
killed. He and Nancy actually had plans to see a midnight movie on the night of the murders,
but Herb suggested that the two go see the movie on Friday night instead.
It was also said that Herb wasn't really crazy about Bobby and Nancy's relationship.
So, did Bobby murder the family because he was angry about this?
denied a movie night, then driven towards death?
Investigators had to ask these questions.
Another reason why investigators were suspicious of Bobby
is because Nancy was the only one out of her entire family that was shot in the back of the head.
This evidence made investigators think that Bobby didn't mind looking at the rest of the family in the face
as he shot him with the shotgun.
But because of his love for Nancy, he didn't want to look her in the eyes while he shot her.
So Al Dui brought Bobby in for questioning, and after only about 30 minutes of interrogation,
Bobby said that Al Dui walked out of the room, and he heard him tell one of his colleagues,
quote, this young man had absolutely nothing to do with it, end quote.
And Bobby was relieved because he really didn't do anything.
Unfortunately, this didn't stop a lot of rumors from spreading around town,
and people were convinced that Bobby was the perpetrator.
And these false allegations actually got so bad that Bobby had to transfer schools to get away from the harassment he now faced from the community he once so loved.
On top of all of these people that the police looked into, there were over 250 other tips that came in from locals.
But a lot of these tips only ended up sending police on wild goose chases.
There just wasn't any substance to any of the tips.
And at this point in the investigation, investigators kind of hit a rut and decided to look through the crime scene photos again.
And when they did, they noticed that there wasn't just one set of footprints at the crime scene,
but two.
But even with this information, investigators still didn't know where to turn.
They had exhausted all of their leads.
So they decided to put out a reward of $1,000 to see if that would elicit any leads.
And what do you know?
About three weeks after the murders, they receive a call from an inmate named Floyd Wells
at the Kansas State Penitentiary, saying he has information about the clutter family murders.
When investigators go to interview Wells, they find out that he actually worked for the clutters about 10 years before they were murdered.
But life went south for Wells, and he later found himself in prison for robbery.
He goes on to tell investigators about his cellmate named Richard Hickok.
He and Richard spent a lot of time together in prison, and he remembered telling him about the clutter family and how they had a lot of money.
He specifically told Richard about this one time where Herb paid almost.
$10,000 for lumber in one single day, which is a lot of money, especially back in the 1950s.
And Wells was under the impression that Herb paid in cash with money that he kept inside of a safe
in their house.
This fact about a safe in the clutter home really excited his cellmate Richard.
You see, Richard and another inmate named Perry Smith were going to be released from prison soon,
and right before they were released, he told Floyd that the two were going to stop by the
clutters, tie them up, kill them, and take the money from Herbs Safe. Now at this point,
investigators are shocked, and they want to know, why would you not tell anyone about this if you
knew about it? And Floyd tells them that he didn't actually think they would follow through with
it, but when he heard about the murders on the radio, he knew exactly who did it. Richard Hickok
and Perry Smith. Now for some background information on Richard Hickok, he had a great
childhood. He was hardworking, smart, and fun to be around. But things
started to change for Richard when he suffered a head injury resulting from a terrible car accident.
And I'm not making excuses for him, but it's worth noting that there's a correlation between
head injuries and violence. Soon after his injury, Richard's behavior started changing.
He abandoned his wife and kids, started drinking a lot, and he even began to steal, a crime
which would eventually send him to prison. Richard was only in prison for five years,
had never committed anything more than theft,
but in this time in prison,
he created a plan to kill.
Now, Perry's life was a little different.
Unlike Richard, he had had a pretty rough upbringing.
His father was abusive and his mother was an alcoholic,
often bringing different men around when his father was at work.
His dad was eventually sent to prison,
and after this, his mother just kind of let the kids do whatever they wanted to do.
She didn't provide them with adequate nutrition or discipline them at all.
And because of this, Perry started to do.
started to get in a lot of trouble, which eventually got him sent to a school for troubled
adolescents, and he suffered a lot of abuse while here at this school.
Apparently, the nuns would beat Little Perry, and in one instance they hit him in the penis
with a flashlight, and in doing so almost completely severed his sexual organ.
From here on out, Perry was bitter towards most other humans and continued to live a life
of trouble, which later landed him in the same prison as Richard Hickok.
Richard and Perry became friends in prison, and even though Richard was the one that grew
up in a better home, he was the one to plan the murders of the Clutter family. He told Perry about
this plan and Perry told him that he was familiar with murder because he had killed a man before.
And because Richard had never killed anyone in the past, he at that point decided that
Perry would be the perfect accomplice for this perfect crime he was planning. And Perry agreed to
join him and play a role in the Clutter family massacre.
Once they were released from prison, Perry and Richard both spent the night at Richard's parents'
house just two days before the murders. The next day, the two grabbed a shotgun from the Hickok
residents along with some ammo and started the drive to Holcomb, Kansas. Along the way, they stopped at a
store to buy some cords to tie the family up with. As they kept driving, Perry said that Richard
was getting frustrated because he couldn't find the house, and the next thing that he knew,
Richard became elated when he finally found the home around midnight. The two drove down the long
driveway, looking around at how nice the property was, and constantly assured each other that they
they would be leaving with a lot of cash. After arriving at the residence, the two got out of their
car and entered the clutter house through an unlocked office door. They used flashlights while
walking through the home while attempting to find the safe, but they weren't able to locate the
money. As they walked through the downstairs area of the home, they came across Herb and
demanded him to tell them where the money was. Herb repeatedly told the men that there was no
money at their house. Richard then screams at Herb, yelling,
"'Bullshit! You got a safe in this house! I know it!' Perry told investigators that Herb looked
like he was being honest, but Richard kept insisting.
Around this time, Richard told Perry to go cut the phone lines, so he grabbed a knife
and cut them, rendering it impossible for the clutters to call for help.
The two thieves then pointed to the stairs and asked Herb who was upstairs, to which Herb replied,
My wife and kids.
Herb was visibly shaken, and the two men grab him by the arms and force him upstairs to
the master bedroom, where Bonnie was sleeping.
When they entered the room, Herb woke up his wife by saying,
Honey, don't be scared.
These two men want some money.
Bonnie was instantly crippled with fear,
staring down these men who were holding a shotgun to her husband.
She quickly replies,
My husband told you the truth, we have no safe here.
At this point, Richard is getting frustrated,
and he asked to see Bonnie's purse.
She gives it to him, but there's only a few dollars inside.
Next, they go to Kenyon's room.
Wake him up and bring him into the room with his parents.
Lastly, they go to Nancy's room.
But before they enter, Richard talks to Perry about how he wants to rape her.
But Perry wasn't having it and told him, no, that's out of the question, we're here to rob them, not rape them.
So they head into her room and Nancy's already wide awake.
When they enter, she asks, What do you fellas want?
To which they reply, it's none of your business.
At this point, Perry wanted to leave knowing deep down that they weren't going to leave with any money.
But Richard kept persisting, so they put the family in the bathroom and the two men go rummaging throughout the house looking for anything of value.
They find $50, a pair of binoculars, and a small portable radio.
And here's where the story gets dark.
The men then decide to separate the family.
First, they grab Bonnie and put her in the bedroom, where they tie her up.
Next, they take Nancy to her bedroom and bind her on her bed.
Lastly, they take both Kenyon and Herb downstairs to the basement and tie them up in separate rooms.
After the entire family was separated and bound, the intruders continued to badger Herb about money.
And again, Herb pleads with them, begging, please let me go.
If we had money here, I would give it to you.
Perry then looks at Richard and asks, what should we do?
To which Richard replies, I'm in favor of getting rid of them.
Perry then grabs a knife, walks over to Herb, and slices his throat.
As Herb is lying on the ground, gurgling in his own blood,
the men realized that he isn't dying as quickly as they thought he would.
So Perry grabs the shotgun, aims it at Herb's head, and pulls the trigger.
Perry later described that as he fired the gun, he watched Herb's head completely split apart.
The men then walk over to Kenyon, who was shaken in fear after hearing his dad get shot.
and they aim the gun at his head and pull the trigger, killing him instantly.
The intruders then go up to Nancy's room and shoot her in the head too.
Except she wasn't facing them.
She was turned away, probably saying her final prayers.
Lastly, they went to Bonnie's room.
After hearing the previous three gunshots, I assume that Bonnie knew her entire family was dead.
she knew that there was no hope, and there wasn't,
because right after hearing the men walk into her room,
they aimed the gun at her face and shot her point blank.
The two quickly fled the scene.
They had just annihilated four members of a family
for a measly $50, binoculars, and a radio.
After killing the clutter family, Richard and Perry went on the run.
After heading north of Garden City,
the two pulled off on a dirt road and buried some of the evidence,
including shotgun shells, gloves, and the cords that they had used to tie the family up.
Next, the men stayed in Kansas City for a while, cashing hot checks.
The police got word of this, but by the time they made their way up to Kansas City,
Richard and Perry were gone.
They were on a long road trip in an effort to avoid the police.
After leaving Missouri, the men made their way through Oklahoma, Dallas,
then a final stop in Laredo, Texas, before they crossed the border to Mexico on November 23rd,
just eight days after the murders.
Their plan was to stay there in Mexico while the case cooled off,
But they didn't make great preparations because in Mexico, they ended up running out of money fairly quickly.
Because of this, Richard sold his Chevy plus the radio and the binoculars that he took from the clutters.
But that still wasn't enough to make ends meet.
So they decided that they were going to go back to the U.S. to try and make some money
and then make a final voyage to Brazil, a country from which they couldn't be extradited.
It's December 15th, 31 days after the murders, and the police are well aware at this point who their perpetrators are.
but the men were still at large.
They had made their way back into the U.S.
and hitchhiked through California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Nebraska, and Iowa,
without getting apprehended.
It was in Iowa that the men decided that they didn't want to hitchhike anymore
because it was getting too risky.
So they stole a car and drove it back to Kansas City, where Richard was from.
And in a risky move, Richard cashed over $500 in a hundred dollars,
hot checks while he was there. Law enforcement once again got word of this, but by the time that they
made it to Kansas City and searched for the two for the second time, the men were off again. Richard
and Perry laid low for a while driving across the country, staying in Florida, then South
Carolina, Louisiana, Dallas, El Paso, Phoenix, and lastly, Las Vegas.
It was December 30th, 46 days after the clutter family was murdered, when Al Dewey,
the lead investigator got a call from the Las Vegas Police Department saying that they finally
had Richard and Perry in custody.
Two officers had seen their vehicle outside of a post office, and when they searched
the vehicle, they found a box of belongings from Mexico, and inside this box were two sets
of boots that perfectly matched the boot prints found at the crime scene.
The men were kept in maximum security, while Al Dewey and his team made their way to Vegas.
When they finally got to question the men, Perry wasn't giving up any information whatsoever.
Apparently, the men made a pact that if they were ever caught, they would stay silent.
But unfortunately for Perry, Richard started telling them everything.
Both men kind of put the blame on each other, but soon enough, both had confessed to the Clutter family massacre.
When their trial came around, their lawyers claimed an insanity defense.
The trial started on March 22nd, 1960, and the courtroom was packed.
People were standing along the walls and filing out the doors, trying to get a seat
at one of the most infamous trials in Kansas history.
In the opening statement of the prosecution, prosecutors stated that they were seeking
the harshest punishment for both men, death by hanging.
The trial went on for days and days, and Al Dewey described it as so.
Mass murder was the theme of the trial.
The county attorney read eight charges of murder in the first degree.
He read the names of each victim twice.
one for each of the two accused.
Hickok chewed gum vigorously during the reading.
Smith, face blank, looked straight ahead.
Everyone knew that the men would be found guilty,
but they wanted them sentenced to death.
So they brought in a man named Logan Green for the closing statement,
and what he said struck everyone in that courtroom.
He looked at the jury and said,
I say to you gentlemen, these were not ordinary murders.
Four of your fellow citizens, without an enemy in the world,
have been brutally slain as if a pen of slaughtered hogs.
These were cold, calculated, premeditated, useless murders for money, and how cheaply those lives were bought at $80 worth of loot.
That is $20 a piece for each of these lives.
In less than 30 minutes, the jury came back with a verdict.
Both men guilty, sentenced to death by hanging.
And on Wednesday, April 14, 1965, at midnight, Richard stepped up onto the gallows.
The hangman placed his hand on the lever and gave it a pull.
And just a few minutes later, Richard Hickok was dead.
Minutes later, they brought out Perry.
His last words were, quote,
I think that it's a hell of a thing that life has to be taken in this manner.
Any apology for what I've done would be meaningless at this time.
I don't have any animosity towards anyone involved in this matter.
And after stating this, the hangman once again pulled the lever.
And it was said that as soon as Perry was hanged, a loud burst of thunder was heard throughout all of Holcomb, Kansas.
Well, everybody, that is it for episode number 11 of murder in America.
Sorry about the delay on this.
We've been very busy lately, but we're coming back at you with some great episodes coming right up.
Courtney, what did you think about this one?
I loved it.
I think it was my favorite case.
I say that every time, though, but I think it was.
It's okay.
It took you a long time to write and research it, though.
It did. It took me almost two weeks.
I'm proud of you for doing that.
Thank you. Thank you.
Everybody online, I just want to remind you all to please follow us on Instagram at murder.
At murder in America.
Well, thank you, Courtney.
And if you guys want to become patrons, I just filmed a bunch of cool murder videos with my mom in South Dakota.
So subscribe to our Patreon to get access to that.
So in the clutter family home where the whole family was slaughtered,
do you think that their spirits could be hanging around?
Do you think that all four family members are still there hanging out?
I don't know.
The dead don't talk.
Or do they?
Thanks for listening, everybody.
Catch you on the next one.
