Murder In America - EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

In 1999, firefighters were called to a small trailer home in Welch, Oklahoma, to extinguish a roaring fire. But when the smoke cleared, and bodies began to pile up, this mystery only grew deeper and deeper. This story involves missing girls, unsolved mysteries and torture- and you're listening to MURDER IN AMERICA. - Listen to our new show, "THE CONSPIRACY FILES"!: -Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/5IY9nWD2MYDzlSYP48nRPl -Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-conspiracy-files/id1752719844 -Amazon/Audible - https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/ab1ade99-740c-46ae-8028-b2cf41eabf58/the-conspiracy-files -Pandora - https://www.pandora.com/podcast/the-conspiracy-files/PC:1001089101 -iHeart - https://iheart.com/podcast/186907423/ -PocketCast - https://pca.st/dpdyrcca -CastBox - https://castbox.fm/channel/id6193084?country=us - Stay Connected: Join the Murder in America fam in our free Facebook Community for a behind-the-scenes look, more insights and current events in the true crime world: https://www.facebook.com/groups/4365229996855701 If you want even more Murder in America bonus content, including ad-free episodes, come join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderinamerica Instagram: http://instagram.com/murderinamerica/ Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/people/Murder-in-America-Podcast/100086268848682/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/MurderInAmerica TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theparanormalfiles and https://www.tiktok.com/@courtneybrowen Feeling spooky? Follow Colin as he travels state to state (and even country to country!) investigating claims of extreme paranormal activity and visiting famous haunted locations on The Paranormal Files Official Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheParanormalFilesOfficialChannel - (c) BLOOD IN THE SINK PRODUCTIONS 2025 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects. Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children. This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned. Our story for today starts on December 29th, 1999. Just days away from the new millennium, there was excitement in the air. People across America were riding down their future goals and aspirations.

Some were closing old chapters and hoping to start fresh. But in the town of Welch, Oklahoma, there were people that were wanting to get revenge on those who they felt had wronged them, and in their pursuit, they were ruthless. On that cold winter night in 1999, on a secluded property in Welch, Oklahoma, the sound of gunshots echoed through the air. Soon after, gasoline was being poured throughout the home, and then a match was lit. Within seconds, the home erupted in a fiery blaze. Flames consumed everything, turning cherished family memories and a rubble and ash. Eventually, law enforcement made their way to the scene where they made a gruesome discovery. In the front room of where the home once stood, the bodies of Danny and Kathy Freeman both had

gunshot wounds to their heads, and both had been set on fire in the blaze. From the very beginning, it was obvious that somebody had a vendetta against this family. But the biggest mystery of all wasn't what was found inside of the burned out home. It was what was missing. from it. As it turns out, two teenage girls had been staying there that night. Danny and Kathy's daughter, Ashley Freeman, and her best friend, Laura Bible. But as investigators made their way through the scene, the girls' bodies were not among the rubble. So where were they? Sadly, over 25 years later, even though there has been a conviction in the case, we are still asking that very question. So this is the story of Laura Bible and

and Ashley Freeman. I'm Courtney Browen. And I'm Colin Browne. And you're listening to Murder in America. Oklahoma, a small rural community located in the northeastern part of the state. With the population of only a few hundred people, Welch has a classic small town feel. People are close to their neighbors. They support the small businesses in town and they look out for each other. There's one small school system, Welch Public Schools, that has a total of around 286 students in grades pre-k, to 12. Needless to say, life in Welch is simple and quiet, and there's a strong sense of community. Now, about 15 minutes away from Welch is the town of Veneta. Although it's larger, with the population of a few thousand, the town of Veneta still has the small town atmosphere. Described as the second

oldest city in Oklahoma, tourists flock to the area for their roadside attractions, famous chicken fried steak, and easy access to Grand Lake. However, like every town in America, America, Welch and Veneta have their share of problems, and these two have had a history of methamphetamine abuse. Over the years, the large and secluded prairie lands have allowed meth cookers and users to hide their drug operations. According to the National Drug Intelligence Center in 2002, methamphetamine production continues to be a significant problem in Oklahoma. Per the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control, methamphetamine laboratory seizures increased dramatically from 34 in 1995 to 1,193 in 2001. But despite these shocking statistics,

the vast prairies of Craig County, Oklahoma holds a darker secret, the unsolved disappearance of Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman. Anyone who knew Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman knew that they were best friends. And it had been that way ever since kindergarten. Laura J. Lean Bible was born on April 18, 18, 1983, to Jay and Lorraine Bible in Veneta, Oklahoma. The couple married in July of 1978, and two years later they had their first child, a son named Bradley. Then, three years after that, Laura came along, completing their family. And from the very beginning, her mom, Loreen, knew that Laura would be very independent. She started walking at nine months old. By a year and a half, she was talking to anyone who could listen. Her parents said that Laura was social, outgoing,

and she loved to be the center of attention. Now as she got older, she really embraced her countryside. Growing up on a farm, Laura loved going outside and spending time with their animals. But her favorite animal of all were their pigs. For years, Laura and her cousin would buy piglets, raise them, and then take them to the annual Craig County Fair for showing. And some, Somehow, Laura always knew how to pick out the best ones. Pictures show her proudly showing off all of the ribbon she won for her pigs at the county fair. But when she wasn't helping out on the farm, Laura enjoyed a number of things.

She loved to paint, hang out with her friends, and make scented candles. She loved being a cheerleader for the blue jackets. Her father, J. Bible, would later say that Laura often came home hoarse because she had yelled so much cheering at the football games. And that's the kind of person she was. She was cheerful, determined, full of life, and a natural leader. Her friend said that she was also very honest. One friend named Amanda Burnett would later tell KSN 16, quote, Laura wasn't afraid to speak her mind. You always knew where you stood with her. She knew who she was and wasn't worried about fitting in, end quote. Now her mother, Lorene, said that Laura was a girly girl. She loved all things hair and

makeup, and she even planned on going to cosmetology school after graduation. But the one constant thing in her life was her best friend, Ashley Freeman. Laura and Ashley had met in kindergarten, and they had been inseparable ever since. Their kindergarten teacher, Kathy Wood, would later say, quote, they're all very special to me. There were 12 students in the class. and it was in my class that their close friendship was formed." Ashley Renee Freeman was born on December 29, 1983, to Danny and Kathy Freeman. And because the town of Veneta was so small, it made sense that the girls would cross paths. In fact, the girl's kindergarten teacher, Kathy Wood, had actually grown up with Laura's father,

Jay, and Ashley's mother, Kathy Freeman. Kathy stated, quote, I grew up in Blue Jacket, so I knew both families quite well. You know everyone's family in a small area like this. I rode the school bus with Ashley's mom and Laura's dad, Jay, and all his brothers and sisters. Laura's family goes to my church, Church of God and Veneta. Laura's uncle lives across the street from us, so she would come over and visit when she was there to see her aunt and uncle. Another student in the small kindergarten class, Sheena Reese, described Laura as very outgoing. She remembered her as the small girl with blonde ringlets who was extremely smart and an all-around social butterfly.

As for Ashley Freeman, Sheena said that she was always quiet, but sweet. But those very qualities are what made Ashley and Laura such good friends. They complimented each other well. And during their childhoods, the girls spent a lot of time together. They only lived about one mile away from each other. So their weekends were always filled with playdates and sleepovers. However, when the girls were in sixth grade, they received devastating news, that they were going to have to live in different towns.

Sadly, that's the year that Ashley and her family moved to nearby Welch, where Danny and Kathy owned 40 acres and set up a trailer on their property. Now again, Welch and Veneta are only about 20 minutes away from one another, but as a preteen, learning that your best friend is moving schools feels like the end of the world. But the girls vowed to never let it get in the way of their friendship. And it didn't. It was a promise they kept for years.

Now, as a little background on Ashley, she was a big outdoors girl who loved to hunt and fish. She shot her first deer when she was 12 years old from 100 yards away, and she always joined her father when he went deer hunting. And their family loved to find different recipes to cook their deer meat with. But even more so than hunting, Ashley was very good at fishing. It was something that she and her grandfather bonded over ever since she was a little girl. Now, her grandpa Glenn lived in New Orleans, but every summer she would fly out and spend months with him on his 45-foot commercial fishing boat that he took out into the Gulf of Mexico.

Ashley was a natural. It didn't matter how hot it was outside. She never complained. Glenn would later say, she was the best little gal that ever got around. She was dandy. In the morning, I'd say, Ashley, what do you want to do today? And she'd say, I don't know, papa, what do you want to do? I'd say, work on the boat.

and she'd say, okay, let's go work on the boat. She'd get blue paint in that reddish blonde hair of hers, but she didn't mind a bit. The next day, same thing, but I'd say fishing, and she'd say, okay, let's go fishing. During one outing, Glenn admitted that it was too hot for him to fish, so he suggested that they call it a day. But Ashley wasn't ready to quit. She kept saying, let me just catch one more. Now, when Ashley wasn't catching fish in the marsh, she'd like to catch alligators that

she would hook and release. and Glenn warned her that even the smallest of alligators could bite her fingers off, but Ashley wasn't scared, and when she hooked one, she would jump up and down in excitement. Glenn admitted she wasn't afraid of nothing. She was a good girl. When it came to school, Ashley really excelled in sports, and she could beat any boy in a race. Her classmate, Sheena Reese, remembered the day that Ashley challenged the fastest boy runner in their class. The entire class lined up to watch them race, and they all erupted in cheers as Ashley beat him to the finish line. But she wasn't just good at running.

Ashley was also a talented basketball player at Welch High School, and she was a member of the school's National Honor Society. Now, both Laura and Ashley were very smart girls. It was reported that they were both in the top 10% of their class. They took their schoolwork seriously, but they also knew how to unwind. and have fun. Now, despite going to different schools, Laura and Ashley still had a very tight-knit friendship. And by 1999, Laura had finally gotten her driver's license and a car, which was perfect because now the girls could hang out whenever they wanted. And this marks a very special time in a teenager's life. Getting a car means more independence, more freedom. Now Ashley wouldn't be

turning 16 until that December, but she was counting down the days until her birthday. For months, she had been saving up money from her job at the local convenience store so she could buy herself a small Toyota. Every time she got a paycheck, she would take out a portion of it in cash, and she would store the money in a sealed Tupperware container that she kept in her family's freezer. By the winter of 1999, with her birthday approaching, Ashley had already saved up about $4,000. She also already had her driver's license test, scheduled for December 30th, 1999, the day after her 16th birthday. But little did she know, she would never make it to her driver's test. Now, before we get into the events of December 29th,

it's important to talk about Ashley Freeman's family history. As in the years before 1999, they had gone through a lot. Ashley's father, Danny, had had a work-related injury, which made it difficult for him to hold down a job. So the family had to rely on Kathy's, salary. She worked at Doctor's Optical Supply Company, but sadly, it didn't pay very well, so they were always struggling financially. To make some money on the side, Danny started growing high-grade marijuana on the back end of his 40-acre property. Now, at first, he started growing it for personal use, but eventually word got around, and he decided to make a little business out of it. The residents of Welch, Oklahoma were well aware of his marijuana business, and there were even

rumors that he had been dabbling with methamphetamine. And like we mentioned, methamphetamine use was pretty popular in this town. But Danny Freeman also had a reputation of having a volatile temper. In 1985, he was arrested and charged with assault after he attacked his father-in-law, Bill Chandler. Apparently, Bill had accidentally mowed down all of Danny's marijuana plants, and Danny went absolutely ballistic on him. After the attack, Bill even filed a restraint. rating order against him. It was no secret that Danny Freeman had a temper, and his children knew this more than anyone, especially his oldest son, Shane. Now, Shane was born on November 6, 1981, and was described as a good kid who started to go down a dark path during his teenage years.

He played football and basketball at Welch High School and was popular, but he wasn't an ideal student. In fact, in high school, he had some behavioral issues and was constantly getting suspended. Because of this, he had to regularly speak with his school counselor, and during one of their sessions in 1998, when Shane was 16 years old, the counselor noticed these dark bruises all over him. When asked where the bruises came from, Shane admitted that his father physically abused him. Now, in August of that year, Shane ended up running away from home. And after a few days, his parents decided to call the Craig County Sheriff's Department.

A deputy named Troy Messick was eventually able to track Shane down. And when he did, Shane told him a horrific story. He said that his father's abuse had been too much to bear, so he ran away. Shane even pulled down his pants and showed the deputy these bloody wounds all over his butt. Apparently, Danny had whipped him over 30 times with a telephone cord. Deputy Messick would later say, quote, The first thing I saw was that he had bled completely through his underwear, end quote. Following this, Danny Freeman was charged with injuring a minor, which is a felony,

but he continued to maintain his innocence. He argued that he had simply punished his child as he saw fit, and that the entire ordeal had been blown out of proportion. Apparently, Shane had misbehaved and Danny had taken away his telephone privileges. But after taking his phone away, Shane had rewired the phone, so that he could still use it in his bedroom. And when Danny found this out, he used that very cord to beat his son. Danny stood by his actions that day.

He agreed that he did give his son a good beating, but in his mind, it was necessary. However, the Oklahoma Department of Human Services didn't agree. And following this, they actually removed Shane from the home. They also required the entire family, including Ashley, to attend counseling sessions to work through their issues. So as you can see, the Freeman family had their fair share of issues. And because of this, both Ashley and Shane spent as much time out of the house as they could. Naturally, Ashley spent a lot of time with her best friend, Laura Bible. In fact, Laura's mom, Lorraine would later say that things were so bad for the Freeman family at this time. She didn't even let her daughter spend

the night at the Freeman house. Ashley would just stay at their house all the time. Ashley's older brother Shane would also come to visit the Bible family when he could. Now at the time he was actually living with a friend of his and Lorraine Bible said that the move seemed to be good for him. Shane was a lot happier when he was away from his father and Lorraine made sure to let him know that he was always welcome to come over whenever he wanted. The Bible family loved Ashley and Shane. They had been in their lives for so long it was like they were family. But sadly, Shane's life would take a drastic turn towards the end of 1998. During this year, he started breaking into homes, stealing whatever valuables he could find

inside. After breaking in, he would sometimes even shower and eat some of their food. Now, it was reported that he would only break into the homes of people he knew. Sometimes they were even friends of his. And because Welch was such a small town, everyone knew that Shane Freeman was responsible. But because he had such a hard home life, some people wouldn't even report the Raken's. Shane had already gone through so much and they didn't want him to go to jail. According to his dad, Danny, he did some stealing, but he just wasn't violent. But Shane's criminal behavior escalated in early January 1999. According to reports, Shane's grandmother, Celeste Chandler, allowed him to take her truck for a few hours, but he never returned it.

Instead, Shane stole the truck and used it to pull people over on the highway. He actually purchased a red flashing light like the ones police officers use, and he put it on his grandma's stolen car. Then at night, while driving down U.S. Highway 69 towards Louisiana, Shane would pull people over. During one incident, he pulled over a young woman named Sabrina Shivers, and when he walked up to her vehicle, he told her he was a rookie cop, which made sense because he looked really young. But during this fake traffic stop, a real police officer actually pulled up, and from there, Shane immediately hopped back into to his grandma's car and took off down the road.

Before he knew it, Shane was leading the police on a high-speed chase outside of town. McAllister Police Sergeant Cecil Day told Tulsa World, quote, he went into a wooded area, bailed out of the truck, and took off into the woods. We went after him with tracking dogs and lost him, end quote. Now at the time, authorities had no idea that the perpetrator was Shane Freeman,

and instead they referred to him as the Red Light Bandit. But back at school, Shane bragged about what he had done. When the media started covering the story of the Red Light Bandit, many students at his school knew that Shane was responsible, but no one turned him in and he would continue on his path of crime. Sadly, on January 7, 1999, Shane decided to break into the home of his sister's best friend, Laura Bible.

Like we mentioned, the Bibles treated Shane like family. and he seemed to have used this to his advantage. According to reports, Shane waited for Jay and Lorraine to leave for work, and once they were gone, he went inside, ate their food, ordered a few pay-per-viewed pornoes, and took a shower. Then before leaving, he stole a number of things, including money, a firearm, and a bunch of ammunition. Later that day when the Bible family came home, they immediately reported it to the police. Now the very next day on January 8th, Shane was spotted on the side of the road changing a tire on a stolen vehicle.

One of the farmers who lived nearby came out and asked if he needed help, but Shane refused. His father, Danny, would later say, quote, none of these farmers were worried. He was a well-mannered kid, end quote. However, for whatever reason, this farmer decided to call the police. Soon enough, around 4.20 p.m., a deputy with the the Craig County Sheriff's Department pulled up to the scene. His name was David Hayes, and he was a rookie cop. He'd only been working with the department for two days. But when he pulled his cruiser up behind the disabled truck, he immediately noticed that it was Shane Freeman,

someone he had recognized. At the time, Shane was a fugitive on the run, so the officers in town had studied his face. They had also been warned that Shane would likely be armed, as he had just stolen a gun the day prior. So when Deputy Hayes saw Shane Freeman, he immediately reached for his 22 caliber gun. And according to Hayes' account, Shane also grabbed his gun. Hayes would later say that he stared down the barrel of Shane's gun for around four seconds before he ultimately fired his weapon, and the single shot ended up hitting Shane in the chest. At that moment, the 17-year-old dropped to the ground on the side of that rural road. Code, Shane Freeman was dead.

Moments later, backup arrived, including Deputy Troy Messick, who had worked with Shane in the past. He was the officer that located Shane after he ran away. But when Deputy Messick arrived at the scene, he said that his co-worker was white as a ghost. Deputy Hayes explained the situation and admitted that he had acted in self-defense. Apparently, Deputy Hayes had ordered Shane to drop the weapon and put his hands in the air, but he refused, and the officer had no other choice. to protect himself. They had to undergo the difficult task of informing Shane's family. As you can imagine, when Danny and Kathy Freeman learned of their son's passing, they were absolutely devastated.

When they heard the details of what happened, they didn't believe it. They agreed that Shane had issues, but he was never violent. So the story of him aiming a gun at Deputy Hayes just didn't make sense to them. Danny would later say, one cop, one shot, one 17-year-old kid. The deputy had backup coming. Why didn't he wait on backup? Didn't he have tear gas or something? Now there was an investigation into his death, and it was determined by the Craig County District Attorney the deputy David Hayes had acted in self-defense.

In the eyes of the law, the shooting was justified. But according to Shane's family, the sheriff's department had given them conflicting stories. At first, they said that Shane had made an inappropriate movement with his hand, but that they didn't see a gun. Then they said he had a rifle. Then a week later, they changed it again and said he had a pistol, which ended up being the final story they agreed upon.

But Shane's family said they had even more questions when they saw his body. According to his uncle Duane, it was apparent by looking at the gunshot wound that Shane had turned a run when he was shot. His mother Kathy would later say, quote, The shot entered the back of Shane's left elbow and entered the body two inches. to the left of his nipple. I want the angle of that shot explained." His uncle Duane said, quote, I think Shane was turning to run when he was shot. That's what he did when he was confronted by authority figures.

He would run, end quote. But according to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, the evidence at the crime scene confirmed that Deputy Hayes fired in self-defense. However, despite the results of the investigation into Shane's death, his parents Danny and Kathy Freeman weren't convinced. They even threatened to file a wrongful death lawsuit against the Craig's County Sheriff's Department. But Danny Freeman had a lot on his hands at this time. In fact, in March of 1999, just months after his son's death, he had to go on trial for the child abuse charges he faced for whipping Shane with that telephone cord. But in the end,

Danny would be acquitted. And when he returned back home, there was even more tension between him and the Craig County Sheriff's Department. It was reported. that he became obsessed with the deputy who killed his son. He began following David Hayes around town, and he even parked outside of his house and would watch his family and children. When investigators learned what Danny was up to, they were concerned that Danny was trying to get revenge. So from there, they had a group of officers that would park near his trailer to keep an eye on him. Now, Danny Freeman was very vocal about his thoughts on the Craig County Sheriff's Department, and he would speak to the media whenever he could. In his mind, the deputies were harassing him so that he and his family would

move out of town. And his wife Kathy believed this as well. She was so overwhelmed by the constant police presence outside their home, she even started looking into buying a home in Louisiana. But eventually, they changed their minds. Welch was their home, and they weren't going to let the sheriff's department drive them out of town. But Kathy did write a letter to the department. In it, she said, Shane was shot at 4.30 p.m., but we were not notified until 10.15 p.m. by Sheriff Vaughn. If the law did everything right, it was still wrong. The whole community of Welch and surrounding area knows this was wrong, and they also want something done. Everyone that knows Shane believes that he wouldn't have pulled a gun.

David Hayes took drastic measures, and he, along with the whole sheriff's department, needs to be held accountable. The Craig County deputies have a bad attitude, and they think they can get away with everything. They've been defensive from the start, harassed us, and tried to intimidate us. She went on to criticize other things they did, like how they removed the flower and wooden cross that their family put up in Shane's memory. So, as you can see, the year 1999 was a very stressful year for the Freeman family. Danny was still working on filing that wrongful death lawsuit, but he needed about $5,000

to hire an attorney. And the clock was ticking, because if he was going to file it, he had to do it before January 8th, 2000, which was right around the corner. But early enough, it's also around this time when Danny told his brother that if anything happened to him, the Craig County Sheriff's Department was responsible. Apparently, Kathy Freeman had mentioned the same thing to one of her close friends, a nurse named Deanna Dorsey. Now Christmas is supposed to be a happy time.

But for the Freeman family, tensions were high. Not only were they going through all of this stuff with the Sheriff's Department, but this would also be their first Christmas. without Shane. However, the one thing that Ashley Freeman was looking forward to was her 16th birthday. Once she finally had her license, she would have the freedom to get away whenever she wanted. And that day couldn't seem to come fast enough. Now over in Vanita, the Bible family had been gearing up for Laura's favorite holiday. During that winter break, Ashley and Laura had spent nearly every day together. According to Laura's mother, Lorraine, her daughter absolutely

loved Christmas. In that year, they allowed her to decorate the tree however she wanted, which she was very happy about. When Christmas finally came around, the Bible family spent all day opening presents, eating good food, and spending quality time with each other. But they had no idea that this would be their very last Christmas with their daughter. Hey everybody, Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our

program. So if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on X, post one of our shows on your Facebook, and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all. But let's get back to the story. According to Lorene, Ashley had been with them a lot that break.

In the days after Christmas, the girls were soaking up the last bit of time they had together before they had to go to school that next week. Now, like we mentioned, Laura wasn't allowed to spend the night at Ashley's house. With everything that had been happening over the past few years, Bible didn't feel comfortable letting her daughter stay there. So any time the girls hung out, it was always at their house. However, on the night of December 28th, Laura asked her mom if she could stay at Ashley's house this time. That night, at midnight, it would be Ashley's 16th birthday, and she wanted to stay with her to celebrate.

Now, Loreen would later say that she was a little apprehensive. Laura hadn't stayed the night at Ashley's house in over a year. But since it was Ashley's birthday, she told Laura that she could stay there. That Wednesday, December 29th, 1999, Laura and Ashley spent the day together, celebrating Ashley's 16th birthday. But by that afternoon, the girls weren't ready to say goodbye just yet. So Laura decided to call her mom. Can I just stay one more night? She asked.

I can imagine her pleading with her mom, like teenagers do, giving her all the reasons why she wanted to stay. And ultimately, Lorene gave in. But she told Laura that she had to come back early that next day because she had a dentist appointment. Laura agreed to the conditions and thanked her mom for saying yes. When they hung up the phone, I'm sure Lorene thought to herself, what could one more night hurt? She assumed that she would be seeing her daughter early that next morning

and that life would go on as usual. But she couldn't have been more wrong. Because once she hung up that phone, she would never see or hear from her daughter ever again. Now, for most of Ashley's birthday, the girls were out of the house. The Freeman trailer did not have running water. It did have a telephone and electricity, but the Freeman's preferred to live a life that was kind of off the grid. Their main heating source was a wood-burning stove that was located in the living room. And for food, they mostly ate the food that they hunted.

But Ashley's birthday was a special occasion. So that night for dinner, Kathy Freeman took them to get Pizza Hut. According to reports, after dinner, they went by Big Bill's barbecue on North Wilson Street in Vanita. Then after that, they drove to the feed store to pick up some food for their livestock. Then they stopped by Kathy's mother's house to pick up water. But from here, Ashley wanted to meet up with her boyfriend, Jeremy Hurst. He had gotten her a birthday present and he wanted to give it to her. So Kathy drove the girls to the local Walmart.

Once there, Jeremy gave Ashley a heart-shaped pendant necklace embedded with a turquoise stone. Kathy also picked up a pre-ordered cake that she had purchased for Ashley's birthday. So far, it had been a beautiful day. They didn't do anything crazy, but for Ashley, it was everything she wanted, spending the day with the people that she loved the most. Once they got back to their trailer, Ashley, Laura, her boyfriend Jeremy, and her mom, Kathy, all sat around the table and sang Ashley happy birthday. She then closed her eyes and blew out the candles, making a wish.

It's unclear what Ashley Freeman wished for, but at 16 years old, the possibilities were endless. Maybe she wished for that car she had been saving up for. Maybe she wished that her family would finally have peace after such a hard year. Whatever it was, Ashley's wish would sadly never come true, because hours' last later, at around 5.40 a.m., local residents Jack and Diane Bell were on their way to work when they noticed a huge fire in the vicinity of the Freeman trailer. It was obvious who the home belonged to, because as they drove closer to the driveway, they spotted the justice for

Shane Banner in the front yard. Upon seeing the house in flames, Jack immediately drove to the nearest home and called the Craig County Sheriff's Department. And 30 minutes later, At around 6.10 a.m., the Craig County Volunteer Fire Department was finally dispatched to the scene. Over the next few minutes, the firefighters worked to put out the flames. And once they did, they now had the task of going through the home to see if anyone was inside. And soon enough, they would find a body. In the front bedroom of the home, investigators found charred remains. It was a deceased female lying face down on a water bed.

to investigators, the waterbed had actually burst and extinguished the fire around the body. So they were able to tell that it was a female. But she did have severe burns on her back where she had been exposed to the flames. Her knees were also slightly hanging off the bed, and her calves had been completely burned off her body. Around this time, Lorraine Bible drove to Veneta, where she worked as a manager at the local McDonald's. When she walked into work, she had no idea that her entire life was. about to change. Around 7.30 that morning, her son, Bradley Bible, called her to let her know that there was a fire at the Freeman residence. And immediately, she was so worried, she hung up the phone

and tried to get in touch with Laura. But the call went unanswered. A few minutes later, a deputy from Craig County Sheriff's Department arrived at the McDonald's and took Lorraine to a back room. Once inside, he told her to sit down. But Lorraine refused to sit. What happened? She asked frantically. The deputy took a deep breath. and that's when he told her that the Freeman house had burned to the ground. And inside they found a body. A body, as in, they only found one person. Now, Lorraine knew the layout of the Freeman trailer, so she asked the deputy where the body had been located. And that's when he told her that the body had been found in the front room. And for a moment,

Therine felt a sense of relief. The front room was Danny and Kathy's bedroom. So hopefully, that meant that Laura and Ashley were okay. here, Lorraine called her husband Jay to let him know what was going on, and immediately he came to pick her up so they could drive to the crime scene. They still didn't have any answers, and they were desperate. The 20-minute drive over to Welch felt like an eternity, but eventually they made it. As they pulled up to the gravel driveway that led to the Freeman's home, there was yellow crime scene tape everywhere. The sky was a grayish hue from the smoke that still lingered. But when they exited their vehicle, an officer stopped them. They weren't allowed to go any further. So Jay and Lorraine

could only stand back in horror as investigators worked their way around the property. As far as they knew, only one body had been discovered in the rubble. And from where the body was located, Lorene was almost positive that it was Kathy. But that meant that three people were still unaccounted for. Her daughter, Ashley Freeman, and Danny Freeman. So where were they? Disturbingly, both Danny and Laura's cars were still parked out front of the Freeman home. In fact, Laura's blue Corsica, equipped with its airbrushed front license plate that read Dragon Wagon still had the keys and the ignition. So if the girls had left, they couldn't have gone far. But outside the property, Lorene and Jay Bible still had horrible thoughts running through their minds. What if Laura and Ashley

had been inside of the house, but they just hadn't been found yet? In two thousand, their horror. Investigators at the scene had to stop searching through the rubble until backup arrived. You see, because the Freeman family had a long history with the Craig County Sheriff's Department, they wanted to wait until the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation arrived before they went any further. In fact, one of the officers on scene was Deputy David Hayes, the same officer who had shot and killed Shane Freeman. So there was a conflict of interest here, and they didn't want to be accused of trying to cover anything up, so they had to wait. But unfortunately, OSBI was busy at the time.

So for hours, Lorraine and Jay Bible stood back and watched as the local police department sat around and did absolutely nothing. During that time, they were sick with worry. And it wouldn't be until around 10 a.m., nearly five hours after the fire was reported, when someone from the OSBI finally showed up. Donna Warren, the Craig County Medical Examiner, also arrived at the scene and was able to take a closer look at the body in the front room. While there, she determined that the female victim was older. She wore a wedding ban on her left hand, and it was obvious by her hip bones that she had born children.

So to her, it was pretty clear that the body was indeed Kathy Freeman. But something else she couldn't help but notice was the gigantic wound in the back of the victim's head. As it turned out, Kathy Freeman had not died of smoke inhalation. She had been shot to death, murdered, and then set on fire. Now as Donna Warren was leaving the scene, Lorraine Bible spotted her. And she actually knew Donna, so she ran over to her hoping to get some answers. Could you tell who the victim was? she asked. Donna admitted that she wasn't allowed to give her much information, but that the body was of an

older female, likely Kathy Freeman. And as you can imagine, this confirmation was a bit of relief for Loreen and Jay, who had been waiting around for hours. But nothing here was adding up. As investigators continued to work the crime scene, they couldn't ignore the fact that three people who were supposed to have been in the house were unaccounted for. By 5 p.m., Kathy's body was finally removed from the home. But after going through the rubble, investigators were confident that Danny Freeman, Ashley Freeman, and Laura Bible weren't there. But where could they be? Surprisingly, at around 6 p.m. an hour after Kathy's body was removed from the scene,

investigators removed the crime scene tape and released the property and trailer back to the family. Keep in mind, this is just 12 hours after the fire was reported. Here they have a murdered woman and three missing people, and they just leave. Now, by this point, investigators did have a theory on what happened here. Since Danny Freeman was missing, the initial belief was that he had murdered Kathy, set the trailer on fire to destroy evidence and then fled the scene. Now, as for where Ashley and Laura were, investigators had no idea. Maybe Danny took the girls with him. Even Danny's brother, Dwayne, wondered if he was responsible. Danny was known to be quick-tempered and at times volatile.

But by this point, everyone was still holding on to hope that the girls were alive. Not finding them in the fire was a good sign, for lack of a better word. So that night, OSBI called Laura's parents to come down to the station to answer some questions, and they specifically wanted to know about Danny and Kathy's relationship. Was there any tension in the marriage, any infidelity, something that would give Danny motive to kill his wife? They even asked Jay about Danny's drug dealings. To the Bible family, it felt as if the Craig County Sheriff's Department had gotten in the OSBI's head, trying to convince them that Danny was this crazed killer, but the Bibles weren't convinced. They were very disappointed with the way the crime scene had been handled. The fact that

investigators were already done looking through the rubble just didn't sit right with them. Surely they had overlooked some evidence, and they were right. In fact, by this point, investigators hadn't even searched the entire 40-acre property. They had barely even ventured outside of where the trailer once stood. Larene and Jay were worried that Laura and Ashley had escaped the trailer and run into the woods for safety. Or worse, what if they had hidden inside of a closet and burned to death in the flames? So after leaving the police station that day, they decided that if OSBI wasn't going to search, then they were. Now, by this point, news of the fire had spread quickly throughout the towns of Welch and Veneta. And like every small town, rumors quickly followed.

There were whispers that Danny had abducted the girls and given them to a criminal organization. One person even claimed to have seen Danny in a white pickup truck with both Ashley and Laura in the back seat. A neighbor came forward and told investigators that they had seen Danny in a remote cabin outside of town. And the Freeman family actually had a cabin that Danny and his brother Dwayne grew up in. So this theory didn't seem too far-fetched. Danny's brother Dwayne even offered to go up to the cabin to speak with Danny, but the police told him not to. They told Dwayne that it was too cold and dark and that they would approach the idea first thing in the morning, which is crazy because if that was true, why wait until the morning?

Now in the meantime, Lorraine and J. Bible decided to make their way to the crime scene to see if they could find any evidence that the police had missed. And boy would they. On the morning of December 31st, 1999, the couple pulled up to what was left at the Freeman trailer. the last known place where their daughter had been seen. Some ranchers in the area offered to help them search the property since the police never did. And while they did that, Lorraine and Jay began sifting through the rubble. The scene in front of them was horrific.

There was charred wood, debris, and ash everywhere, destroyed remnants of what was once a home. The smell of smoke was still thick as they began searching. Most of everything they came across had been completely destroyed, but every once in a while they could make something out. There were pots and pans, what was left of a sofa. Then sadly, after a few minutes, they found the burned body of the Freeman's family dog, a Rottweiler named Sissy.

Lorraine and Jay were shocked that the authorities had overlooked this, which had them thinking, if they didn't even locate the family's dog and the rubble, what else had they missed? Now from here, Jay and Lorraine decided to go to that front bedroom, where Kathy's body had been located. They began sifting through the rubble by hand. They could easily see where the waterbed had exploded, as the area around it was less burned than the rest of the house. But as the two looked closer, they made another shocking discovery.

At the foot of the waterbed, underneath some debris, they found more bones, and they weren't Kathy's bones. In fact, after a little digging, they found an entire body. Now, Lorene would later say that the body had no face, but it was obvious that it belonged to an adult male. The burst waterbed had also conserved parts of his lower jaw, and horrifically, Lorine and Jay said, it looked like hamburger meat. But at that moment, they knew that they had found the body of Danny Freeman.

There were still remnants of the clothes he had been wearing, which was a pair of gray sweatpants, a white t-shirt, and a flannel shirt. And as Lorene and Jay were looking at him, they couldn't believe their eyes. How on earth had investigators missed an entire body within the home? Around the same time that Danny's body was discovered, his brother Duane had also returned to the property. As he made his way up the half-mile gravel driveway, he saw Jay Bible frantically waving his arms in the air

and pointing to an area inside the trailer. Dwayne parked his car and rushed over to Jay. Together, they walked to the bedroom and he was shown the charred remains of his brother. Dwayne immediately knew that the body belonged to Danny because there was a metallic shine in the skull area. Years before the fire, Danny had accidentally discharged a powder gun in his face and had to have certain sections replaced with metal plates and his sinuses were reconstructed with mesh and metal wiring.

Dwayne also said that after the accident, Danny suffered. from severe migraines and that this incident was around the time that Danny started to take on a violent temper. But this discovery really put tension between the Bible family and investigators. I mean, how can you even trust a department that made such a huge mistake? Not only had they barely even searched for the girls, but they shut the entire crime scene down after walking over a dead body all day. So what else had they missed? Now soon enough, deputy Troy Messick made his way to the scene. Lorraine would later say that she watched as the deputy pulled out his radio and said, quote, that thing that I came to check on, the answer is yes.

Deputy Messick then apologized to both Jay and Lorraine and stated that he needed to re-secure the crime scene. From there, he went back to his cruiser, pulled out a roll of yellow crime scene tape, and started rolling it around the perimeter of the trailer once again. He then told Lorene and Jay that they needed to leave because it was now an active crime scene. But Lorene refused. She didn't trust that investigators were going to do their jobs, and she wanted to help look through the rubble for her daughter. But as you can imagine from this point forward,

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Celebrate Mom with Whole Foods Market. Soon enough, the OSBI was back at the Freeman's trailer. And like with Kathy Freeman, they determined that Danny had also been shot at close range in the face with a shotgun. Medical examiner Donna Warren would later confirm that Danny suffered a broken collarbone before the fatal shot. And that the manner of death was homicide. Investigators theorized that Danny Freeman had attempted to stop whoever was responsible and a fight ensued. They believed that Danny had been the primary target. But as for why, they didn't know.

Perhaps it was drug-related. Maybe he crossed paths with the wrong person. But based on the scene, investigators theorized that after killing Danny, the perpetrator turned the shotgun on Kathy. And due to her wound being in the back of her head, they believed she was trying to escape when she was shot and killed. Then, to hide any evidence, the suspect poured gasoline throughout the home and set it on fire. Investigators also believed that Kathy had been killed at around 5 a.m.

And that the fire had been burning for nearly one hour before it was reported. Slowly but surely, they were beginning to get an idea of what happened here. But there was still one question that remained. Where were Ashley and Laura? With the discovery of Danny Freeman's body, investigators now believe that the girls had been kidnapped by the person, or persons who murdered Danny and Kathy. But Jay and Lorraine Bible weren't convinced

that the girls had been taken just yet. They believed that their bodies were somewhere in the debris. So for the next few hours, Jay Lorraine and 150 volunteers sifted through the contents of the trailer. People had even brought chainsaws to cut through materials to gain access to sections that had collapsed. Lorene shouted orders and everyone listened while the authority stood around the outskirts of the crime scene.

At some point that afternoon, the local funeral home had even come up and set up a tent. They handed out sandwiches and drinks for all the volunteers. Now, inside what used to be Ashley's bedroom, the Bibles located Laura's purse. Inside, they found her driver's license and $200 in cash she had gotten as a Christmas present. Lorene said that Laura had taken the money with her to pick out Ashley a business. birthday present. In the rubble, they also found her overnight bag that contained a partially burned pajama top. But luckily, after hours of searching, there was no sign of Laura or Ashley's remains. Now, remember earlier how I told you that Ashley had been saving up for that car?

Well, like I mentioned, she had saved up about $4,000, which she kept in a Tupperware container in the freezer. But that money was missing. Also missing from the home was Danny's extended. extensive Native American Arrowhead collection. So investigators were beginning to wonder if this was a robbery gone wrong. During the initial investigation, authorities also failed to search Laura's Corsica in the driveway, even though it was unlocked. Volunteers searched the vehicle, but unfortunately, nothing significant was found. By January 1st, 2000, Lorraine and J. Bible had organized a search of the 40-acre property.

With the help of the local radio station, Marine encouraged everyone to come out and help and their community really showed up nearly 500 volunteers arrived at the property ready to help and for days they all searched on foot and horseback people even brought canoes to search the creek behind the trailer but unfortunately there was no sign of ashley or laura they also didn't find any clues that could help in the investigation it seemed as if the two girls had simply vanished into thin air but the community wasn't going to give up just yet volunteers started printing thousands of missing person's flyers to put up around town. But it's around this time when Kathy Freeman's mother, Celeste Schandler, introduced a controversial theory as to what may have happened. Celesta believed

that the Craig County Sheriff's Department was responsible for the homicides. Everyone in town knew that there was tension between law enforcement and the Freeman family after the shooting death of their son Shane. It also came out that in the days before the shooting, Danny was meeting with attorneys so that he could file that civil lawsuit against the Sheriff's Department. So, rumors began circulating that the Craig County Sheriff's Department orchestrated the murders to silence the family. And considering how horribly the department handled the investigation, some people still believe this theory.

Now, one would think that after mishandling the case so badly in the beginning that investigators would work hard to do better. But sadly, that wasn't the case. In the week after the fire, Marine and Jay Bible were constantly at the sheriff's department doing their part to help in the investigation. And something they were concerned about was getting Ashley and Laura's information entered into the National Crime Information Center, which is essentially a database where you can upload the information of missing persons and any law enforcement agency around the country can access it. And on January 6th, Lorraine and Jay were told that Ashley and Laura's info had been uploaded to it. But two days later, on January 8th, they learned that the police never entered it into the system.

For whatever reason, the disappearance of Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible was not a top priority for them, which only sparked more rumors around town that they were somehow involved. There was also the fact that both Danny and Kathy had allegedly told people that if anything were to happen to them, that the Craig County Sheriff's Department was responsible. And some people believed this. So, in an effort to clear their name, the Craig County Sheriff's Department actually ordered Deputy David Hayes to take a polygraph. And again, he's the one who shot and killed Shane Freeman. But Deputy Hayes passed the exam and was cleared of any wrongdoing.

Deputy Hayes left the Craig County Sheriff's Department in the year 2000. And to this day, he's refused to speak about it. But for years, people were convinced that the police were in on this crime. Now, Lorene and Jay Bible weren't sold on this theory. Of course, they didn't trust the authorities after they handled the case so poorly, but they didn't think they were responsible. The relationship between the Bible family and the Craig County Sheriff's Department became even more strained when a new theory was introduced.

After finding Danny Freeman's body, the department now suggested that maybe Ashley was the murderer. They believed it was possible that Ashley had murdered her parents, set the trailer on fire, and then fled with Laura and her $4,000 that she had saved up for her new car. They even suggested that maybe Ashley had witnessed her father, murdering her mom. So in an effort to avenge her mother, she grabbed a shotgun, killed her father, and then fled the scene. But for the people who knew Ashley, they knew that that just wasn't the case. Neither of the girls had ever been violent with anyone. And if the girls had run away, then why would Laura leave behind her wallet with $200 inside? Even further,

why wouldn't the girls leave in Laura's car? Their mutual friend, Sheena Reese, also stated that Laura Bible was a mama's girl. She would have never left her mother behind. So soon enough, this theory also fizzled out. On Friday, January 7, 2000, a memorial service was held for both Danny and Kathy Freeman. It was reported that over 400 people showed up to pay their respects. After the service, both were buried in the Timpson Chapel Cemetery in Estella, Oklahoma, next to their son, Shane. But during the entire service, everyone couldn't help but think about, what really happened here? After they abandoned the theory that the girls were somehow involved, they focused on the intruder theory, who was now widely believed that someone had come

into the Freeman home, shot and killed Danny and Kathy, kidnapped Ashley and Laura, and then burned the trailer down to cover their tracks. But with no strong leads in the case, Jay and Lorraine Bible and a few of the Freeman relatives contacted the host of America's Most Wanted, John Walsh. A few weeks after their disappearance, the show ran a segment about the girls. And although the airing brought a lot of publicity to the case, and hundreds of tips rolled in, all the leads ended up being dead ends. And by this point, Lorraine Bible was the go-to person in the case. In fact, when local residents had tips, they would give them to her instead of the police department.

But sadly, months and months would pass with no leads. Every single night before going to bed, Lorraine would make sure to leave her porch light on, just in case Laura came back home. She even left the Christmas tree up that entire year. Laura had so much fun decorating it, Lorraine couldn't bring herself to take it down. So by that next Christmas, it was still exactly how she had left it. Sadly, the year 2000 would turn to 2001, and Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman were still missing. But soon enough, the case would begin to gain some momentum. Now, like we mentioned, there had been rumors around town that Danny Freeman was not only involved

in the marijuana business, but that he also dabbled in the distribution of methamphetamine. Several neighbors theorized that it could have been a meth deal gone wrong. One neighbor, a man named Wade Sherrick, admitted that Danny's involvement with drugs was well known. Wade witnessed several cars in the Freeman driveway at all hours of the night, and it was pretty obvious that they were there to buy drugs because these people never stayed long. They were always in and out pretty quickly. But because of this, some people began to wonder if Danny had somehow gotten involved with the cartel. After hearing this, Lorraine Bible took matters

into her own hands. She even met up with a suspected member of the cartel and confronted them. It didn't end up going anywhere, but she was willing to do whatever it took to try and find her daughter, even if that meant putting herself in harm's way. Now in September, of 2001, a television show called What Really Happened decided to feature the Freeman and Bible case for their pilot episode. And several people close to the families were interviewed for it, including Kathy Freeman's friend, Deanna Dorsey. The woman Kathy confided in telling her that if anything ever happened to them, it was the Craig County Sheriff's Department. So obviously, Deanna Dorsey was very outspoken about her suspicions of them. During the interview,

Deanna and her daughter Katie sat down with the host Rolanda Watts. Katie said, quote, I believe very, very strongly that the Craig County Sheriff's Department had everything to do with it. Just because I know of instances that Ashley would tell me about, the Craig County Sheriff's Department would watch their house. They'd park just like down the road in a barn, and they would follow Danny into town and then follow him back home, park in that same barn and just watch every moment

they left the house. And Deanna, who sat next to her daughter, nodded in agreement. Now, the show never ended up airing, but a few weeks after Deanna Dorsey did her interview with them, she was shot and killed at the Craig County General Hospital. It was October 6, 2001. Deanna was working her shift as a nurse, and it was a pretty slow morning. At some point, she walked over to the nurse's station to call her daughter Katie. However, before the call could connect, a man wearing camouflage pants and an army coat walked straight up to Deanna and pointed a gun in her direction. Before she could react, he shot her five times, emptying his weapon. Deanna Dorsey was pronounced dead at 9.50 a.m. Now after shooting her, the man ran from the scene. Outside in the parking lot,

he was confronted by a police officer, where he was ultimately shot and killed. The man would later be identified as 47-year-old Ricky Martin. And disturbingly, when he walked into the hospital that day, he specifically asked for Deanna Dorsey. Now, an investigation would reveal that Ricky was a paranoid schizophrenic and that he had no personal connection to Deanna. The Veneta Police Department issued a statement that read, quote, for some reason, He just picked her. According to their report, Ricky had been in and out of the Eastern State Hospital for the insane.

But in January 2000, the hospital decided to downsize until they eventually closed their doors entirely. Apparently, Ricky was distraught with his news, and he even stopped taking his medication. Then, in a psychotic break, he murdered Deanna. Now, we weren't able to figure out why he had specifically asked for Deanna before he shot and killed her, or how he even knew her name in the first place. But the Freeman family was convinced that he had been set up by the Craig County Sheriff's Department, especially because Deanna had done that interview with that TV show shortly before. But of course, there was no evidence of this.

And once again, investigators were no closer to solving the case of Laura and Ashley. But the year 2001 is when investigators really leaned into the theory that the murders of Danny and Kathy Freeman had to do with Danny's underground meth distribution. According to Loreen Bible, she had heard rumors that Danny started selling meth in order to raise money for an attorney so he could file that civil lawsuit

against the Craig County Sheriff's Department, which seemed to make sense. As it turns out, about 30 miles away in Ottawa County, they were having a huge meth problem at the time that Danny and Kathy were murdered. And soon enough, some confidential informants who were tied to the meth scene would come forward with some interesting information. These informants told the OSBI that the day after the murders, they were at a New Year's Eve party at this meth house when they spotted Laura and Ashley. And soon after seeing them, these informants claim that there was a video circulating where the girls were being raped on camera.

If you love murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories, and the unknown, that I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Browne from Murder in America and the Paranormal Files. On the Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on the conspiracy files is backed up with fact. I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know. Everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories.

Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story, just as detailed as we do with murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files. The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.

According to the affidavit, Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman were alive six days after the trailer fire, and for days it was reported that they were drugged, raped, and tortured. by various men, and it was apparently all on video. Now, the location where this was allegedly happening was at the home of a man named Chester Shadwich. Chester was known for throwing wild parties. Parties were tweakers would smoke meth and stay up for days on end.

Some informants even admitted that Chester had bragged about bearing the bodies of Laura and Ashley on his property. So in 2001, the OSBI obtained a search warrant. And during their search, they even found a bunch of VHS tapes, but nothing of significance was ever found on them. There were also no bodies on his property. So unfortunately, investigators were back at square one. That same year, Lorene Bible had received a tip from a truck driver who said that he knew a guy

who admitted to abducting Laura and Ashley. The man that allegedly confessed to the kidnapping was named Paul Glover, and he was a known meth cook in Ottawa County. But through the grapevine, word got around that Paul Glover had taken the girls, drugged them, sexually assaulted them, took Polaroid photos of the abuse, and then passed them on to the next group of junkies. So once again, investigators obtained a searched warrant of the property. And this time around, Lorraine and J. Bible were hopeful. After all these leads that led nowhere, they were hoping that this one would give them answers. They even waited on the outskirts of the property while investigators searched it.

But once again, they were left disappointed. The search did not turn up any evidence, and Paul Glover was cleared as a suspect. And sadly from here, the case began to grow cold. For six whole months, Lorraine Bible didn't receive one single tip, which was heartbreaking. Soon enough, 2001 turned to 2002, and they were no closer to solving the case. The disappearance of their daughter had completely taken over their lives. How are you supposed to work or eat? When your own flesh and blood, blood is out there somewhere. How are you supposed to go on when you haven't seen your daughter in two whole years, when you don't know what happened to them? But Loreen was not going to give up.

She still kept her porch light on every single night. She still had that Christmas tree up, completely untouched. And they say that time heals all wounds. But even two years later, the town of Welch was still feeling the impact of these crimes. That year, Ashley and Laura's class graduated high school, and their absence was felt by everyone. The community was still feeling a sense of paranoia, knowing that whoever did this was still out there. Laura's cousin Missy Dixon stated, quote, I feel silly for saying this, but I felt really paranoid. I was scared out of my mind. But in the summer of 2002, their families were confident that the case would soon be solved when a serial killer came forward with a confession. It was May of 2002 when a letter came

in to the Joplin Globe. The writer's name was Tommy Sells, and he was currently on death row in Texas. And as his execution date neared closer, he wanted to get some things off his chest, specifically what he did on the night of December 30, 1999. The letter read this. What do I remember about December 30th? I want to say this. I remember where two bodies are. Well, I believe I could take you to two bodies. I also want to remember a fire.

Tommy Lynn Sells was a violent rapist, drug addict, and murderer. Between 1978 and 1999, he took trains across the United States, killing as many people as he could. It's suspected that he killed as many as 22 victims, but he confessed to over 70 murders. He even dubbed himself the coast-to-coast killer. Now, Tommy's murders were savage and opportunistic.

He didn't have a specific victim type. He murdered men, women, and children. But the murder that landed him in prison was that of 13-year-old Katie Harris. On the night in question, Tommy broke into Katie's home while her parents were gone. And that night, also in the home with her that night, was her 10-year-old friend named Crystal.

After breaking into the house, Tommy raped Katie, slit her throat, and then stabbed her 16 times. Horrifically, 10-year-old Crystal walked into the room when it was all happening, so Tommy slit Crystal's throat as well. But fortunately, Crystal survived, and she was able to help law enforcement track him down. Now, after Tommy's arrest and conviction,

he confessed two dozens of murders across the United States. including that of Danny, Kathy, and Ashley Freeman, and Laura Bible. When investigators sat down with him on death row, Tommy admitted that on the night of December 29, 1999, he had been driving through Welch on his way to St. Louis, Missouri, when he stopped at a local convenience store. According to Tommy, it was at the convenience store when he spotted Ashley Freeman.

From there, he said he followed them home. Later that night when everyone was sleeping, Tommy said he murdered Danny and Kathy, set the home on fire, and then kidnapped the two girls. After this confession, he even went to Oklahoma to show investigators where he had buried the girl's bodies, but sadly they were unable to find them. Now, for a while, Lorene and Jay Bible were confident that they finally knew what happened to their daughter. And even though they didn't find their bodies, at least they had some answers. But sadly, even this wasn't true. Eventually, Tommy Sells admitted that he made the entire thing up. He said he was bored and he wanted to go outside.

So he led investigators on this entire goose chase for nothing. Tommy Sells would be executed by the state of Texas in 2014. Years later in 2004, another murderer named Jeremy Brian Jones confessed to the murders. Now, he was in prison after he murdered a woman named Lisa Nichols. On September 17, 2004, Jeremy broke into Lisa's home, violently raped her, and shot her three times in the head. Jeremy left Lisa's body inside of the bathtub and then doused her in the bathroom in gasoline, lit a match, and walked away, which was eerily similar to what happened with the Freeman

family trailer. So when Jeremy confessed to the killings, investigators believed he could potentially have been telling the truth. Jeremy stated that he targeted Danny Freeman that night because he owed his friend drug money. Then after murdering Danny and Kathy, he had no idea what to do with Ashley and Laura, so he drove them to Galena, Kansas, shot them, and dumped their bodies into an abandoned mine shaft. So in June of 2005, the OSBI, Craig County Sheriff's Department, and the Kansas Bureau of Investigation traveled to Galena, Kansas to search the abandoned mines

where Jeremy said he had dumped the bodies. Ultimately, Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible were not found, nor was there any evidence to indicate that they had been dumped there. And of course, shortly after this, Jeremy Jones recanted his confession. He admitted that the only reason he confessed was because he received special treatment in jail due to his celebrity status. The food was better and he was allowed more phone calls. So once again, the Freeman Bible case hit a dead end. Today, Jeremy sits on death row at the Holman Correctional Facility in Atmore, Alabama. By 2005, it had been over five years since Loreen and J. Bible had seen their daughter. In that entire time, Lorraine kept that Christmas tree up. It was something she looked at every single day of her life for five years, a grim reminder

of one of the last memories she had with her daughter. Sadly, after years of being up, the tree started to wear down. So that year, Lorraine finally decided to take it down. And I can't imagine how hard that must have been, but she did keep that porch light on every single night. After half a decade, she and her husband were hit with the reality that they might not ever see Laura again. But keeping that porch light on represented the small glimmer of hope that they still had. Lorraine would later say that after the confession of Jeremy Jones, the OSBI slowed down on their investigation. And for the next few years, there were hardly any tips coming in. It felt as if the entire world was moving on while they were still trapped in this never-ending nightmare.

By 2010, over 10 years after the girls went missing, the Freeman family declared Ashley Freeman dead. But Lorene and Jay Bible weren't ready for that. They were still holding on to hope. In 2016, Lorraine created a Facebook page titled Find Laura Bible. And luckily, it seemed to spark some new interest in the case. Little did they know, answers were right around the corner. By the end of 2016, there were some changes being made at the Craig County Sheriff's Department. The current Sheriff, Jimmy Souter, had lost his bid for re-election, and in 2017, Sheriff Heath Winfrey was elected to take his place.

And when he took his position, he made a huge announcement. Sheriff Winfrey told the public that he had found a box at the Craig's Craig County Sheriff's Department and inside were several documents regarding the Freeman Bible case. Important documents that had been misplaced and forgotten. Apparently, the previous administration at the Craig County Sheriff's Department was supposed to turn over those documents to the OSBI. But they never did. Sheriff Winfrey said that the items were located in a black milk crate that had essentially been collecting dust. And as it turned out, the answers to this case had been sitting there for nearly 18 years.

Inside the documents were dozens of potential witnesses connected to the Freeman Bible case, who all pointed the finger at three men, Phil Welch, David Pennington, and Ronnie Busek. Now, as a little background on Phil Welch, pretty much anyone that knew the guy used one word to describe him. Evil. He was well known for beating his girlfriends and children with things like cattle prods and bullwhips. At some point, his wife didn't make his food the way he liked it, so he took a hammer to her fingers. and there were accusations that he sexually abused his children. In the book titled Helen the Heartland,

one of Phil's family members talked about how Phil got his kids to beat up a mentally disabled neighbor of theirs. And if his children refused, they themselves were beaten. His family member stated, he thought it was the funniest thing in the world. Now, Phil was also a meth addict, and when he got high, he would stay up for days on end. During that time, he also had religious experiences

where he would preach the gospel throughout his, day-long benders. And Phil's two right-hand men were Ronnie Bucick and David Pennington. Now, all of these men were horrible people with lengthy criminal histories. But Phil was definitely the ringleader. Whatever he said, they did. Now within these documents that were just sitting at the police station for almost 20 years, there were witnesses who claimed that Phil, Ronnie, and David had bragged about their involvement in the Freeman Bible case. One witness even stated that the man had been passing around these Polaroid pictures. In them, there were two girls who had been gagged and duct taped to a chair. The witness said that they looked amaciated, but the two girls

were, without a doubt, Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible. Now, there were roughly 10 to 15 photographs. In some of them, Phil Welch was actually posing with the girls, like the sick monster he was, and he reportedly kept the pictures in a briefcase of his. but disturbingly, there were many witnesses who knew that these three men were definitely involved in the murders. But sadly, only one of them was still alive. The ring leader Phil Welch had passed away on July 29, 2007, and David Pennington passed away in June of 2015. But Ronnie Busek was still alive. And like the other two men, Ronnie Bucick was a horrible human being.

His own family said that he was known to wear a bell. belt buckle that showed a woman with her leg spread and a large penis aimed directly at her. On the top it read, I'd rather, and the bottom read, then eat. Ronnie was known to have sex with a lot of women, and at one point he said, if they don't want to give it up, then by God, I fucking take it. Now by 2018, he was actually in jail in Wichita for a parole violation. But soon enough, investigators from Oklahoma were showing up to place him under arrest for his part in the Freeman Bible murders. After 18 years of questions, investigators finally have some answers for the families and friends of the Freeman's and Laura Bible.

66-year-old Ronnie Busek from Kansas is charged with four counts of murder, kidnapping, and arson in connection with the 1999 crime. Investigators believe two other men, Phil Welch and Dave Pennington, also took part in the murders. They've learned these young ladies, final days were certainly horrific. And today's announcement, no doubt comes as little solace to their grief. In December of last year, this box of case notes dealing with Ashley and Lord's disappearance was found in a closet in the Craig County Sheriff's Office. Investigators tell me it contained new information that helped convince them they were on the right path. There were also names of other people that might have important information.

The main investigators in this most recent phase of the Bible Freeman case have found witnesses that proved that three co-defendants talked a lot. There was physical evidence in the form of photos, and we could be certain several people out there could come forward right now and tell us where to find Ashley and Lori. Now, investigators did try and find the Polaroid pictures that were reportedly in Phil Welch's possession, the ones that showed Laura and Ashley in their final days, but by 2018, they were missing.

The men likely destroyed them. But with the mini-witness accounts, they finally had enough evidence to make an arrest. As Ronnie Busek was being transferred to Oklahoma, family members of Laura and Ashley stood outside and were even able to speak with him. What about the families that you hurt? You have anything to say to them? What about the families that you hurt? You'll talk to them?

What do you want to say to them? They're here. You want to tell me where my niece is at? You want to tell me where my niece is at? I wish I could. If he couldn't hear that, Ronnie said, I wish I could. He would also later say that he had a hard time remembering because of all the drug use he had done. in the past. He also said that in 1978 he had been shot in the head, which affected his memory.

But eventually, while in prison, he would tell investigators exactly what happened on December 30th, 1999. So let's go back to that horrific night. There was a chill in the air in Walsh, Oklahoma. Over at the Freeman trailer, the girls had spent that night celebrating Ashley's 16th birthday. Ashley's boyfriend Jeremy had even come over. After singing her happy birthday and eating some cake, the teenagers sat in front of the TV and watched a hunting show. At around 10.30 p.m., Jeremy left to go home. And soon after that, everyone in the Freeman House went to bed. Laura and Ashley were sleeping in Ashley's room, and Danny and Kathy were asleep in the front bedroom. But over in the nearby town of Pitcher, Oklahoma, three men, Phil Welch, David Pennington, and Ron.

Ronnie Busek were gearing up to take their revenge. According to Ronnie, Danny Freeman was indeed involved in the meth scene in this area. And in the weeks before the murders, he wasn't paying back his debts. Apparently, Danny owed Phil Welch some money for two ounces of methamphetamine. Now, I tried to calculate how much money this would have been. And in 2002, according to the National Drug Intelligence Center, an ounce of meth cost anywhere from $350 an ounce to $3,000. Now, these guys were making meth in their own homes,

so it definitely wasn't high quality. It's likely that Danny owed Phil a few thousand dollars at most. But on this night, he was ready for bloodshed over his unpaid debt. So in the early morning hours of December 30, 1999, Phil, David, and Ronnie all made their way over to the Freeman trailer. Ronnie would later say that when they arrived at the home, he and David waited outside, while Phil walked up to the house with a shotgun hidden in his trench coat. He quickly made his presence known, and Danny Freeman came to the door.

Now it's unknown if Danny let him in or if Phil forced his way inside. But at some point, the two were standing in the kitchen of the trailer, and Phil was demanding the money he was owed. And before they knew it, a fight was. ensued. Now, according to Ronnie during the fight, Danny tried to grab his 357 magnum from the kitchen table, so Phil had no other choice but to shoot him. However, that's likely not what happened. In reality, Phil wanted money that Danny didn't have, and when he realized he wasn't going to get paid, he shot him right then and there. Horrifically in the front bedroom of the home,

Danny's wife Kathy heard the arguing going on in the kitchen. She likely went to see what was going on when she heard the gunshot. According to Ronnie, Phil didn't want to leave any witnesses, so it's here where he went in the primary bedroom. Standing there in the darkness of that room, Kathy knew that she was in grave danger, and then she saw him, Phil Welch standing in the doorway with a shotgun.

Kathy turned to run away from him, but it was too late. Phil aimed his gun at her and fired a shot into the back of her head. Kathy's body then collapsed onto the waterbed. From there, Phil went back into the kitchen, where the body of Danny Freeman was lying on the ground. He then dragged Danny's body into the primary bedroom and threw him down onto the foot of the waterbed. And it's here where he decided that he was going to burn the trailer down, destroying all of the evidence inside. But little did Phil know. In the back bedroom of that trailer were two teenage girls.

Minutes earlier, when Phil and Danny were arguing in the kitchen, the girls woke up. They could tell that the conversation was heated, so they stayed put. But then they heard the gunfire, the piercing sound of several shotgun blasts. And that's when they knew they had to get out of there. Both Ashley and Laura snuck out the back door of the trailer. but they didn't know where to go. Laura's car was out front, but so were Phil's accomplices, David and Ronnie.

They were also out in the middle of nowhere on a 40-acre property. So after running out the back door of the trailer, Ashley and Laura decided that the best thing they could do was run out into the field and lay down on the ground. So that's what they did. It's horrible to think about the fear that was running through their bodies in that moment. For Ashley, she had just heard her parents get murdered. And now these three men were running through, ransacking the trailer.

While inside, Phil, David, and Ronnie stole money, marijuana, and anything of value they could get their hands on. According to Ronnie, Phil then instructed them to grab the container of gasoline and pour it throughout the house. And they did, as they were told. Over the next few minutes, Ronnie and David doused the home. They poured it all over the kitchen, the wood stove, and the living room. Then, Phil reportedly lit the match and threw it down.

For a moment, before leaving, Phil, David, and Ronnie watched the fire, making sure the flames were spreading throughout the trailer. And once they were satisfied, they were going to leave. But sadly, out in the fields after seeing the trailer go up in flames, the girl's first instinct was that they needed to get out of there. Perhaps they thought that the men were gone, or maybe they heard them walking nearby. So together, they stood up and began running, running as fast as they possibly could. But it's here where Phil Welch spotted them.

Ashley and Laura did their best to escape, but with three grown men on their tails, they were eventually tackled to the ground. And sadly, instead of killing them right then and there, Phil had another idea. The men threw the girls into the back of his vehicle, and from there, they made the 30-minute drive to Phil's meth house in Pitcher, Oklahoma. Once there, Phil put the girls in a back room, shoved socks into their mouth, and tied them up. Over the next couple of days, they were brutally raped and tortured. Horrifically, Ronnie Busek said that the girls could have been held in captivity for weeks. He couldn't really remember, but during that time, Phil Welch even forced the girls to do meth, and he took Polaroid pictures of the entire thing.

However, he knew he couldn't keep them forever. With his heavy meth usage, also came paranoia. And when the case started gaining traction, he decided to kill them. Ronnie admitted that Phil strangled both Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible and then discarded their bodies in an unknown location. Disturbingly, in the weeks, months, and years after the murders, all three men bragged about what they did that night. According to one witness, Phil even took one of the girls' missing persons flyers and proudly hung it up in his trailer. David Pennington's former girlfriend

told investigators that David physically abused her and threatened her life. He liked to remind her that he had killed the Freemans during a bad drug deal, and if she stepped out a line, he would kill her too. The witness, referred to as Ali in the affidavit, admitted that she lived with David Pennington after the murders, and that he had threatened to kill her if she ever revealed what she knew to the police. Sadly, there were many witnesses who knew that these three men were responsible, and they were too afraid to come forward themselves, but they had told other people about what they knew. And I guess, through the grapevine, the witness's names had been given to the Craig County Sheriff's Department, but they were never looked into. The answers to this case

had been sitting in a folder for 18 years, and it wasn't until 2017 when investigating, Investigators finally interviewed the witnesses and learned the truth. After Ronnie Bucig's arrest, District Attorney Matt Ballard held a press conference where he stated. For 18 years, the community in Craig County, and many members of the media have followed the case of the deaths of Kathy and Danny Freeman, the mysterious disappearance of their 16-year-old daughter Ashley Freeman and Ashley's friend, 16-year-old Laura Bible, and the arson of the Freeman family home. Yesterday, there was an arrest in the case. OSBI investigator Tammy Ferrari and my SVU investigator Gary Stansell through incredible police work identified three perpetrators.

Now, when the details of Ashley and Laura's final moments were revealed, the girls' families were horrified. It was even more heartbreaking to know that after the fire, the girls had been alive just 25 miles away. Their families couldn't help but think that if the Craig County Sheriff's Department and OSBI had handled the case better in the early days of the investigation, they may have had a better outcome, but as we know, we can't turn back time. And although their families were relieved to finally have some answers, they weren't going to be satisfied until the bodies of Ashley and Laura were located. During the press conference, the Bible stood up and made their own statement. The rene, her voice filled with emotion, stated,

it's been 18 years, three months, and 26 days to this point. We're not finished. I will not stop until we bring the girls home. In July of 2020, Ronnie pleaded. guilty to accessory to second-degree murder, and he agreed to help locate the bodies of Ashley and Laura in exchange for a lighter sentence. From there, he was ultimately sentenced to just 10 years in prison. The families were definitely not happy about this, but at the very least, they'd get to lay Laura and Ashley to rest. So following his sentence, Ronnie told investigators that the girls had

been buried in a root cellar at a residence in Pitcher, Oklahoma. However, to this day, they have still never been found. And as if this case couldn't get any more heartbreaking, in 2003, Ronnie Busek was released from prison early due to good behavior. New at five, the only man convicted in the murder of two Welch girls is getting out of prison for good behavior. Ronnie Busek is scheduled to be released. released May 19th, five years early. Ashley Freeman and Laura Bibles remains have never been found. We went out to pitcher today to speak with Laura Bibles' mother, Lorraine.

We should get like an Emmy Award on the outside. We look strong. On the inside, we're mad as hell. Word of Ronnie Bucig's early release from prison hit the family of Laura Bible as hard as anyone would imagine it would. It's like, oh, so I can just go kill some people, and then I can just spend three years, and then I'm done. What does that set out to everybody that's going to do and stuff? I can just follow this guy's example.

Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman were 16 when they disappeared from the Freeman's home in 1999. It took close to two decades before any arrest. Ronnie Busek was convicted of accessory to murder in the shooting deaths of Danny and Kathy Freeman, burning their home and kidnapping and the presumed deaths of the girls. The other two suspects, Phil Welch and David Pennington, died. before they could face any charges. It's not fair, it's just a punch in the gut. And I feel like it's a kick in the teeth to Tammy and Gary

who've finally made their way to us and they've worked so hard to try to find some justice for us when no one else would before. Lisa Brodrick, Laura's cousin is referring to investigators in the case. Busek's plea deal called for a 15 year sentence with 10 years to be served in prison. It also required he help investigators find the girl's remains,

None of his information helped. You get a phone call, hey, he's getting out. He only had to serve three years. He's been a perfect model prisoner. Laura's mother, Lorraine, has a message for Bucic. The guy when he gets out, but it'll be very careful. There's a lot of hate and discontent going on. The family says they will continue to do what they do every day.

Search and follow tips that could lead to the girls' remains. Now, according to the Department of Corrections, Bucic received credit for time served in County Jail and also received accelerated credits 60 days for every month served. Earning accelerated credits is based on the crime committed, previous criminal history, and good behavior. The release also requires five years probation, one year of which is supervised. If you have tips that could help the family find the remains, we have a link at KJRH.com.

Now, as you can imagine, the community was outraged when they learned that Ronnie Busek got released from prison after serving only two and a half years. So in February, 2004, Oklahoma Representative Steve Bashmore introduced House Bill 2946 that was named Laura and Ashley's law. The bill would require anyone charged with accessory to murder in the first or second degree to serve 85% of their prison sentence before being eligible for release. Steve Bashmore stated, family members of the young women killed in this case came to me imploring my help when they realized the person guilty of accessory to murder was to be released after serving so little time in prison for this horrific crime. They're also concerned that he's now free to move about their community

in close proximity to their family. I'm hoping that no other family going forward will have to go through such a shock after suffering such a devastating loss. But sadly, the bill wasn't passed. And even though Ronnie was cooperative in trying to help find the bodies, he never held up his end of the deal. Ashley and Laura have never been located. And even so, it was still released early. Monday marks the 25th anniversary of the deaths of Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman. Channel 8's Burt Mumbolo reports on a new effort to hold people more accountable if they've been convicted of accessory to murder. Bert. A new search for the remains of the girls is expected to take place next year. And Lorraine Bible will be searching for justice at the state capital.

Yeah, we handed some out. The last time we caught up with Lorraine Bible, she was sitting on the steps of the state capital dejected. In 24 years, I've never felt a failure as a parent as I did today. The bill that was named after her daughter and her friend had died in the Senate. It would have mandated that people convicted of accessory to murder, like Ronnie Busek in the deaths of Laura and Ashley, would serve 85% of their time instead of getting out after just a few years for good behavior.

The penalty needs to fit the crime. Eight months later, that would hold you more accountable. The bill is still on her mind as she set up the community center in Venita for a family get-together and prepares to head back to the Capitol next year to lobby for the same bill which has been reintroduced for the new session. I will go visit every House, representative in the House, and every senator in the Senate side. personally because all of them all of them i will spend the time to do it monday will mark the 25th anniversary since the events unfolded that led to the deaths of laura and ashley and yet even after all

these years listened to how she describes how old laura would be now she's 41 and ashley turns 41 under 29th. On Sunday, she will be 41 on Sunday. All of that was in the present tense. No would have been, which is a clear indication of just how alive all of this is to her, no matter how much time goes by. And it's also a heads up to lawmakers.

Lorraine Bible is coming back to the Capitol, and she will keep coming back for however long it takes. The people that make the most noise are the one that gets hurt. A memorial service takes place on Monday at the Welch Civic Auditorium at 630. For Pamelo, News Channel 8. Just recently, in February of 2025, Laura and Ashley's law finally passed the House Civil Judiciary Committee. However, this is only the first step to getting it implemented. And sadly, this is where our story ends. It has been 25 years since the tragedy that took the lives of Danny, Kathy, Ashley, and Laura, a tragedy that completely rocked a small Oklahoma town.

After all these years, the community of Welch was so happy to learn that someone was finally being convicted for the crime. And you could only imagine their outrage when they learned that Ronnie Busek was set free. He's once again a member of their community after only serving a few years in prison. It isn't fair. Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible only got 16 years before their lives were brutally taken from them in the most horrific way you can imagine. Their families have lived in this nightmare for decades. And just when they thought that they were finally going to get answers, the rug was ripped out from under them. Not only is Ronnie Bucig walking free, but he never even helped find their bodies, which is at the very least what their families deserve.

Lorene Bible has said that she will not rest until these girls are brought home. So for now, their story remains unfinished. If you have any information on the whereabouts of Ashley and Laura, the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation urges you to call their tip line at 1-800-522-8017 or email tips at osbi.ok.org.g. Hey, everybody. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Murder and in America. Courtney and I are both so glad to have each and every one of you there with us listening

every single week. This story is so heartbreaking. Our hearts just go out to the family members involved in this whole thing. It's always so infuriating to hear these stories, to research these stories, to read and read about these stories where you just see such systemic failure from authorities, especially in a case like this where it seems like they just really didn't care about getting this crime solved and you know you hate to hypothesize but in so many of these cases if action would have been taken earlier things would have come to a much quicker ending if you like what we do here on the show and you want to help support us please consider joining us on patreon if you join us on patreon you can get each and every episode of our show early and ad free so if you don't like the ads in the show and you want early access

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