Murder In America - EP. 42 NEW YORK - The SON of SAM: The Conspiracy (A Satanic Cult, Suicide & Murder) PT. 2

Episode Date: November 15, 2021

Did David Berkowitz act alone? We don't think so. Join us as we dive deep into the satanic cult to which David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam belonged, and follow the horrific trail of bodies that the cult left in its wake. This story stretches far beyond the initial shootings in the late 70's, and it sunk its blood-soaked claws across the entire United States, from across New York to California and even all the way up to North Dakota. This is one dark, disturbing, and shocking ride. You are NOT ready for what your about to hear. - Learn a new language EASILY using BABBEL!! And don’t forget to use our special code “MURDER” for 3 FREE MONTHS of learning!! babbel.com - Start your journey towards a straighter, whiter smile TODAY with CANDID!! And don’t forget to use our link to get your $15 starter kit!! It’s so cheap and SO worth it!! candidco.com/AMERICA - Get fast, professional, stress free mental health help with BETTERHELP! Don’t forget to use our special code & offer by clicking the link!! betterhelp.com/MIA !! - Additional audio editing by Joe Pietz.  https://instagram.com/joepietz?utm_medium=copy_link Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week's episode is sponsored by Hocum, the new film that critics are calling Damian McCarthy's most unnerving horror yet. From the director of Oddity, Hocom stars Adam Scott, in a deeply monstrous horror that bloody disgusting called pure nightmare fuel that holds you firmly in its grip. Don't miss Hocom, the groundbreaking new horror from Damian McCarthy, now playing in theaters. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. is a journey. I know this. I think we all know this. Some days feel good and other days feel absolutely overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy sometimes to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, nobody has all the answers. And no journey should be taken alone. However, having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to

support you can make all the difference. I know that I'm a huge therapy advocate I've advocated for therapy for years. And if you want to give therapy a try, BetterHelp is a great place to start. Better help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US. BetterHelp also does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences, and their 12-plus years of experience and industry-leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. And something that I love is if you aren't happy with your therapist match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. I've personally used

BetterHelp in the past, and I think that if you're on the edge, if you're thinking maybe it's time to start therapy, I say just go ahead and do it. There's literally no downside because you don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash MIA. That's betterhELP.com slash MIA. I really love to get dressed up every once in a while when I'm going out with my girlfriends or on a date night with Colin. But lately, I've been trying to be more intentional with my everyday wear, and I've found that the best options that work for me are good quality, effortless pieces that will last me forever, and they still look cute, which is why Quince has always been my go-to. The thing I love about Quince is that all of their

fabrics feel elevated. Their clothing always fits me perfectly, and I can just throw on anything from theirs, and it looks so put together, but it's so effortless. Now that the spring season is upon, us, Quince makes it so easy to refresh your wardrobe with spring pieces that feel as good as they look. I love that they always use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton, and ultra-soft denim. And everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They also work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality and craftsmanship, not the brand markup. I recently have been to on the hunt for a good denim skirt. And so I went to Quince and I ordered their stretch denim

mini skirt and I am absolutely obsessed with it. It is so cute. I've already worn it several times. I have made a ton of different outfits with it and I could not believe the price of it. I actually had to go back and double check it because it is such good quality. I could not believe how affordable it was. But that's been my experience with everything I've gotten from Quince. They are so affordable and their items are amazing. And I know you will love them too. So refresh your everyday with luxury that you'll actually use. Head to quince.com slash America for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash America for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash America. The following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects. Trigger warnings from the stories we cover

may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children. This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned. The devil means business. It doesn't play. That's what I've been sharing in my testimony. time and time again that the devil does not play and person follows him or serves him they're throwing their life away they don't know what they're getting into what could start out as dabbling

could ultimately lead to total possession i've seen it in the past i know what happened to me and i hesitate to share these things in in the public because it just sounds so unbelievable people really can't accept that, they don't really understand, or my words get twisted, it's been a real uphill battle to even share. In our episode last week, we went into detail on the string of killings that terrorized New York City from 1976 to 1977. Within the year, young people from all around the city

were getting gunned down by an assailant using a rare 44 caliber revolver. No one had any idea what the killer's motivations were, until he left an envelope at one of his crime scenes. In the note, he revealed that he referred to himself as the son of Sam and that he was driven to kill by none other than the devil himself. At the end of the year, there had been eight different shootings, seven people left wounded, and six people dead.

On the last shooting, however, a parking ticket near the scene would end up leading investigators to a man named David Berkowitz, a 24-year-old postal worker from Yonkers. Berkowitz would later admit that he was indeed the son of Sam, and the people of New York were finally able to rest easy, knowing he was captured. And that's about where we ended our episode last week. But we also left you guys with some questions to think about. Like, why did eyewitnesses from the different crime scenes

describe completely different shooters? There were descriptions of assailants with different colored eyes, weight, height, facial hair, skin, complexion, age and different hair color. In addition, the police department could not prove that the same 44 caliber gun was being used at each shooting, leading some people to believe that there were multiple shooters involved. And lastly, at the final shooting, the witness who watched the entire thing unfold said that David Berkowitz was not the man that pulled the trigger. NYPD was almost positive that the actual shooter drove away in a yellow Volkswagen and that he was described as unshaven with rolled up sleeves and wearing a light-colored wig.

But the witnesses that saw David Berkowitz, just minutes before the murder occurred, said that he was shaven, wearing a completely different outfit, and he had rolled down sleeves. David was not the driver of the yellow Volkswagen, and we, along with many others, believe that he was not the shooter. Yes, he was near the crime scene that night. The parking ticket on his car proved this. this, but he was driving a Ford Galaxy, not a yellow Volkswagen. So the big question is, who was the driver? What was his part in this story? And the most damning evidence of all, the piece of evidence that puts the most doubt in our minds was that David was seen five

blocks away from the shooting just minutes before the shots rang out. Meaning if he was the shooter, he would have had to hurry over to the scene, change his outfit, roll up the sleeves of his shirt, put a wig on, and grow facial hair all in the span of a few minutes. In today's episode, we are going to discuss David Berkowitz's confession, all of the inconsistencies in the case in the bizarre string of murders and, quote, quote, suicides that occurred after Berkowitz was imprisoned. At the end of this episode, we hope to open your mind to the possibility that there may have been more than one son of Sam,

and we believe that Berkowitz may have been nothing but a cog in a deadly machine that rained terror upon New York City. I'm Courtney Shannon, and you're listening to Murder in America. On August 10, 1977, the police placed David Berkowitz under arrest for the string of murders that occurred that year in New York City. Once he was brought into the police station, a frenzy of reporters swarmed around, snapping pictures of the man who had terrorized their city.

And for the first time, everyone was able to finally see the face of the son of Sam. As he was escorted out of the squad car, Berkowitz flashed a smile, letting the world know that he was proud of what he had done. Lloyd Calder, the news of the arrest of suspect David Berkowitz. Jane Lennan's name is David Berkowitz. He is an unmarried, 24-year-old postal worker. He's a veteran of Korean service with the United States Army. When he was arrested late last night in his apartment in Yonkers, New York,

he told the officers, okay, you've got me. David Berkowitz is expected to be booked, as Jane mentioned, in Brooklyn this morning, and formally accused of committing one of, at least one of six murders in the New York area in just the past year. This is the man police believed to be the son of Sam, the 44 caliber killer, who has killed six and wounded seven in a string of attacks over the last 13 months. He was smiling as he was brought in. Detectives displayed a 44 caliber pistol found in Berkowitz's car. The police lab says its tests indicate this was the gun used in the most recent son of Sam Slay.

The ballistics session has just crawled and told us that the 44 caliber gun recovered tonight has been tested and the bullets matched the bullets recovered from Stacey Moskowitz. New York's Mayor Beam appeared after midnight. I'm very pleased to announce that the people of the city of New York can rest easy this morning because of the fact that the police have captured a man whom they believe to be the son of sand. He was apprehended. He was advised of his rights. And he was under arrest, advised those rights. No, he was resigned to what appeared to be his fate. Did he make any additions? He made a statement along, well, you got me. Besides the 44 pistol and the 45 machine gun, police seized a lot of ammunition at Berkowitz's apartment, along with a folder of press clippings with a poem written on the outside.

The suspect doesn't bear much resemblance to any of the recent artist's conceptions used by police, but one sketch drawn over a year ago does bear some resemblance to this Polaroid picture taken of the suspect on this night of his arrest. Robert Hager, NBC News, New York. David Berkowitz, the man behind the son of Sam Killings. Like we mentioned in the previous episode, Berkowitz was pretty unremarkable, definitely not a man that people would suspect to be a murderer. He was born on June 1, 1953,

but shortly after he was given up for adoption. David was 100% Jewish, which caught the attention of a Jewish couple in the Bronx who didn't have children. Their names were Nathan and Pearl Berkowitz, a middle-class religious couple who gave David a good life. David was a smart kid who did really well in school. He was involved in sports, and he had a lot of friends growing up.

David's mother, Pearl, died of cancer when he was 14, and his relationship with his father wasn't the best. So after high school, he decided to join the Army. He spent a year in Korea and time at Fort Knox, and it was here where David really got into religion, the fire and brimstone type of religion. He would be discharged from the Army in 1974 and decided to move into his own place and enroll in college.

Many people close to David around this time said that he was very pushy with his removal. religious beliefs. For the next few years, David worked a number of odd jobs and even decided to try and find his birth parents. In this search, he discovered that his birth name was Richard Falco. On Mother's Day of 1975, David sent a letter to his mother wanting to reconnect, but when they did, it wasn't the reunion he expected. He found out at this visit that he was an illegitimate child, which upset him considering his religious beliefs. And he also found out that he had a sister, that his mom never gave up for adoption. He stayed in contact with them, but,

David was kind of lost at this point, and it was around this time when he moved to the apartment on 35 Pine Street. No one really knows when Berkowitz started fantasizing about murder. And it's strange that a man who once preached about the gospel was now killing young people in the name of Satan. And now that he's finally been arrested, detectives want some answers. When they question Berkowitz about the killings, he admits to everything, claiming that he was the man who pulled the trigger at every single shooting. He says that he spent many nights driving around the city, waiting to get a sign from Sam.

And here's how that questioning went based on the transcripts. Who is Sam Carr? My master. Where does Sam live? In Yonkers. Is Sam the father of Wheat Carr? Yes. How long have you known, Sam?

Probably, well, as Sam, I'd say just a little over a year, a year and a half. Is that his actual name, Sam Carr? That's the name he goes by, yes. Did you have any discussion with Sam that particular day about finding someone to kill? I just had my orders. Do you want to tell me how you got those orders? Yes, he told me through his dog as he usually does. It's not really a dog. It just looks like a dog. It's not. He just gave me an idea where to go. When I got the word, I didn't know who I would go out to kill, but I would know when I saw the right people. Berkowitz goes on to tell them that Sam is really a 6,000-year-old

man who speaks to him through a demon dog named Harvey. After, learning this information, investigators start to question him about the murders. And they were impressed at the amount of information he had about each crime. The assistant DA, Herb Leifer, would go on to say his recall appeared marvelous. It was almost as if it was all scripted ahead of time, and it probably was. Now, considering the severity of his crimes, one would think that investigators would question him for hours, fact-checking every single detail, of the crime. Acknowledge of his crimes, of his story. But they didn't.

Their questions were superficial, easy to answer. They didn't sprinkle in trick questions that could possibly reveal signs of a false confession because to them, they got their confession and they wanted to put the entire thing behind them. But there were people who believed they were not getting the full story. For instance, the Queen's District Attorney John Santushie

would later say, I wasn't happy with the whole case from the minute they brought Berkowitz in and I saw him. I had questions I wanted answers to, and I had doubts that were troubling me. It was all too smooth, too easy, and I didn't like it. But alas, on the very night that Berkowitz was arrested, the police wrote case closed on the blackboard of the police station, and they all shared a drink celebrating the capture of Son of Sam.

But the arrest of David Berkowitz wasn't a celebration for everyone. In addition to the DA, many people in the media who were familiar with the case and the composite sketches, they had a lot of questions too. If David really was their guy, then why didn't any of the sketches look like him? The police quickly dismissed these comments saying that eyewitness accounts are often flawed, which is true, but some people couldn't shake their suspicions. Why were some of the shooters described as six feet tall and blonde when Berkowitz was said? the complete opposite. Another alarming fact was that even though Berkowitz seemed to have all the right answers in his confession, there were many factual errors, specifically in the shootings of Stacey

Moskowitz and Robert Villante, Joanne Lemino, and Donna DeMassie, Christine Freund, and Virginia Voscaricayan. That's half of the 44-Calber shootings. One of the major errors came from his confession of the last shooting with Robert and Stacey. So let me refresh your memory really quickly. Do you remember Tommy Zano, the man who was part? parked in front of the car that Robert and Stacey were in and witnessed the entire shooting?

Well, Berkowitz claimed that Tommy was supposed to be the target of the shooting that night, but when he moved his car forward and Stacy and Robert pulled up, Berkowitz decided to shoot them instead. And Berkowitz admitted to watching Tommy move his car forward, but that doesn't quite add up. You see, Berkowitz told investigators that he didn't arrive at the scene until 2 a.m. But Tommy moved his car forward at 1.35 a.m. A whole 25 minutes before Berkowitz was even there.

How would he have known that Tommy moved his car if he wasn't even at the scene? Did he have accomplices in the park that told him this information? In addition, Berkowitz claimed that he was in the park the entire time. But this also didn't make sense because Mrs. Davis, who was walking her dog nearby, saw Berkowitz twice that night, blocks away from the scene. He also claimed that when Stacey and Robert walked past him in the park, he was sitting on a bench. But Robert claimed that the man was leaning up against the park's restrooms.

Another interesting note is that in this confession, Berkowitz claimed that he shot them through the passenger side window, but he would later say, quote, I walked straight to the car, when I got to the rear of it, I looked around, then stepped onto the sidewalk. I moved right to the driver's side and pulled the gun out, end quote. This was interesting to the skeptics because there was no sidewalk at the scene, and he didn't shoot them through the driver's side door. He shot them through the passenger side door. Was this a simple misremembering of how things happened, or did Berkowitz mess up the fact? because he wasn't the shooter. That's something we don't really know.

And detectives never pointed out these flaws in his story because that would only serve to complicate their case. Learning a new language can feel intimidating. When I first decided to give Spanish a shot, I was worried about the level of difficulty, the time commitment, and having to hear how my accent sounded out loud. But thanks to Babel, the number one selling language learning app, the whole process was addictively fun, fast, and easy.

Whether you want to learn a new language for an upcoming trip as an engaging new hobby, Babel teaches bite-sized language lessons for real-world use. Yeah, I took Spanish in high school, and honestly, I was super bad at it. I didn't remember any of it throughout my college experience. And just using Babel for a couple of weeks, I'm able to speak phrases and hold very light conversations, but it's very easy. The 15-minute lessons make it the perfect way to learn a new language on the go. Well, you can choose from 14 different languages, including Spanish, French, Italian, and German,

Plus, Babel's speech recognition technology helps you to improve your pronunciation and accent. It's a very smart app and it's very, very fun to use. I love learning new things. And with Babel, you can learn a language very quickly. Right now, when you purchase a three-month Babel subscription, you'll get an additional three months for free. That's six months for the price of three. It's a perfect holiday gift for yourself, for your best friend, for your fiancé or your romantic partner. Just go to Babel, B-A-B-B-B-B-E-L.com and use promo code murder.

That's B-A-B-B-B-E-L-com code murder. Anyways, guys, let's get back into this deep dive into the sons of Sam. Are a plethora of errors in Berkowitz's confession. Like how he claimed he wasn't wearing a wig at some of the shootings, but witnesses described a man with blonde hair. Some of the errors in his confession were small, others large, but we won't bore you with the details of every single one. But what's really interesting in this story is the work of a man named Mori Terry.

He was a journalist in New York who wrote an entire book called The Ultimate Evil, which points out a lot of doubts in the son of Sam's story. After Berkowitz's arrest, Terry, along with many others, couldn't shake the fact that something didn't add up. And it went deeper than the errors in his confession and inconsistent composite sketches. So he decided to do a little investigative work himself. First, he wanted more information on Sam Carr, the man who lived behind Berkowitz. Terry had a lot of questions about him, like, what was his part in this story?

Why did Berkowitz kill all of these people because Sam's dog told him to? When Terry looked into Sam Carr, he found out that pretty much everyone thought of him as a mean old man, much like the description of Sam in Berkowitz's letters. He was a disciplinarian that was very abusive to his children. It would often beat them and lock them in the attic when he got mad. Interestingly enough, Berkowitz described these exact characteristics in his letter, saying, Papa Sam keeps me locked in the attic. He beats his family.

Wanting to know more, Terry decides to look up Sam Carr in the phone book. And when he does, he comes across something that shocks him. There, in the phone book was the name. of Sam's son, John Wheat Carr. Terry, who was very invested in the case, remember that name from somewhere. So he started looking at the letters that Son of Sam sent during his killings. And there, in the letter to Jimmy Breslin, Son of Sam mentions a man named John Wheaties, rapist and suffocator of young girls. To Terry, the names were too similar, and he knew that there was more to this story. A few days later, Terry comes across a picture of John Wheat Carr, and he couldn't believe what he was seeing.

It's a picture of a man who looks identical to one of the composite sketches and the son of Sam investigation. Terry then found a picture of Michael Carr, John Carr's brother. And what do you know? It was the spitting image of the other composite sketch. Terry knew at that very moment that while New York City was celebrating the arrest of David Berkowitz, that the NYPD had missed something monumental in their pursuit of Son of Sam. On the day that Berkowitz was arraigned, crowds of angry New Yorkers held signs and chanted, kill him, kill him outside of the Brooklyn courthouse,

and a psychiatrist was sent to evaluate him. The psychiatrist's findings were that Berkowitz was an angry man who hated women. According to the doctor, the killings all started shortly after David contacted his birth mother, and since it didn't go as planned, he took out his frustrations on the women of New York City. But David denied these claims. But while everyone was focused on Berkowitz's motivations behind the killings, Mori Terry was digging in even deeper in his investigation of the case. He had a gut feeling that Berkowitz was not alone in these shootings,

and that John Carr and his brother Michael Carr were involved as well. So he called around to several people trying to get information on the Carr family, and he talked to someone that told him that John Carr often went by the nickname Weedies, just like the name John Weedies that's referenced in the letter. Now, Berkowitz told investigators that he didn't know the Carr family personally, but if that was true, then how could he have known John Carr's nickname? The man went on to tell Terry that John Carr didn't even live in New York anymore. He came back to the city occasionally, but his permanent address was now in North Dakota. This made Terry even more curious, because how would Berkowitz know John's nickname if he wasn't in New York very often?

Terry decided to share all this information with two of his friends named Steve Dunlevy and Peter Michelmore, and they both agreed that these findings were huge. But they all came to a consensus that they needed to gather more information before bringing their findings to the police. Because, for one, law enforcement would never want to open investigation on a case that, in their mind, was already closed. And also, two members of the Carr family at the time worked in law enforcement. Wee Carr, Sam's daughter, was a dispatcher, and her husband, John McCabe, was a Yonkers police officer. So the three friends began working together trying to find any information they could, that could prove that the Carr brothers were involved in the murders.

They started by dissecting the son of Sam letters with a fine-tooth comb, and they came to the conclusion that one of the letters was most likely written by one of the Carr brothers. You see, in the letter it says, Behind our house, locks me in a garage, look out of the attic window, ties me up to the back of the house. This was clearly written from someone inside of the car household, not from Berkowitz's high-rise apartment. The letter also had very strong opinions of Sam.

Whoever wrote it clearly knew a lot about him and honestly hated him. They didn't have anything nice to say. Berkowitz wouldn't have felt so strongly about the random man who lived down the street, but Sam's actual sons, who endured a lifetime of abuse at the hands of their father, would. So Terry did everything in his power to locate exactly where John Carr was, but he wasn't having any luck. He even called around two different people in North Dakota that shared his name, but his search came up empty. No one knew where he was, so the group kept searching for answers elsewhere. During their search, they came across a story that would

further confirm the suspicion surrounding the son of Sam case. This story involved a man named Andrew DuPay, a 33-year-old father of two, who worked as a mailman in the city. DuPay and his family lived less than a block away from David Berkowitz, and he often delivered mail to the car family and to Berkowitz's apartment complex. Andrew was known by everyone to be a happy and loving family man. But around July of 1977, his friends and family noticed that he was becoming paranoid. Andrew even told one of his friends that he was scared for his life, saying, sometimes a mailman learns things about the people on his route that he'd be better off not knowing, and he sees things that he'd be better off not seeing. It was around this time, Andrew,

Andrew started spending a lot more time with his family. On one occasion, he took his family on a camping trip, and while they were there, he got into an argument with some random Italian men at the campsite. To his family, this wasn't a big deal, but Andrew suddenly became even more fearful and paranoid after this encounter. And then about a month after Berkowitz's arrest, Andrew and his wife were bathing their two girls. It was a special moment between the family, but out of nowhere, Andrew excuses himself from the bathroom and this would be the very last time that his family would see him alive because right

then he grabbed his shotgun wrote a quick suicide note and left his home to kill himself in his suicide note he wrote remember the day at glen island with the italian family i think that it's there doing now an argument at a campsite doesn't seem to be a likely reason that one would end their life But Terry later came across some information that would help explain Andrew's suicide. Terry received a letter from a man that read, quote, I would have contacted the Yonkers Police with the information I have, but I think you know as well as I that it would have been another mistake,

considering the force employs two members of the Carr family. He would go on to say, the mailman Andrew DuPay knew the Carr brothers and Berkowitz, and this was never brought out. He committed suicide after meeting with an unnamed man in the Pelham Bay Park area of the Bronx. He said that, quote, they were threatening him, and they were going to get his family. Shortly after, she found him dead of a bullet wound. No one knows exactly who Andrew met that day in the Bronx.

But we do know that at some point while he was delivering mail, on the streets where Berkowitz and the car family lived, he came across something that put his life in danger. And once Berkowitz was arrested, someone started threatening him and his family. Maybe he knew too much or saw something he wasn't supposed to. No one really knows. But many people believe that while Andrew was bathing his daughters, sharing a special moment with his family,

he became overwhelmed with fear that something terrible was going to happen to them. So instead, he decided to take his own life to save his family. This story would go on to be only one of, the many mysterious deaths that would occur following Berkowitz's arrest. But while this previous story was unfolding, Mori Terry, Peter, and Steve were hard at work to get more information on the case. And luckily, Peter actually had some connections at the hospital where Berkowitz was being held, and he convinced one of the officials to ask Berkowitz a set of questions.

They asked him, were you the one that wrote the letters? Berkowitz refused to answer that question, which was odd. He also asked, were you alone at the park where Stacey and Robert were shot? And again, David didn't want to answer. Before leaving the room, the interviewer handed Berkowitz a piece of paper. On that paper, it read, we know you're involved with John Carr. The interviewer said that when Berkowitz read this statement, he turned as white as a ghost. He laid down on his cot, nearly fainted, and refused to answer any more questions.

Many people had a lot of questions about David Berkowitz and why he was so motivated by Satan. When most people think of the Son of Sam case, they think about the satanic cult conspiracies. But these ideas weren't just created because Berkowitz referenced them in his letters. The claim that a group of people were running around New York doing Satan's work did have some merit. You see, in around December of 1976, when the son of Sam was terrorizing New York, two young boys went for a walk along a trail near Berkowitz's apartment, and along this trail, these boys found three dead German shepherds lying together, wrapped in plastic. The dogs had been shot, their ears had been cut off, and they had been brutally mutilated.

Terry got into contact with these boys, and they took them through the park to show them around. And when they did, they came across an old structure that was covered in graffiti. The boys told Terry that people also referred to this as the Devil's Cave. In the cave, when Terry entered, he discovered an altar, a black pentagram, an inverted cross, a painting of Satan. There were writings on the walls written in blood, and there was even more blood covering the floors. The boys also told Terry that the locals referred to this area as the gutters.

Terry stopped, took a look around the filthy cave, and it all started to make sense. In one of David's letters, he says, quote, Hello from the gutters of New York City, which are filled with dog manure, vomit, stale wine, urine, and blood. Hello from the sewers of New York City, which swallow up these delicacies. End quote. It all made sense that this was the area where the cult would meet. It was right in front of Berkowitz's apartment and the car house, and the sheriff's department even confirmed that there had been cult activity taking place here.

There had been multiple reports made of people in hoods chanting in the dark holding torches, and they later discovered that this park, Untermeyer Park, was the meeting place of a group called the Children. But this group's members were not children. They were full-grown adults that came there to sacrifice dogs in the name of Satan. It's also interesting to note that a girl who lived in the same apartment complex as Berkowitz claimed that she had seen Berkowitz walking a German shepherd before, but he didn't own any dogs.

Another woman would later come forward claiming that she put one of her German shepherds up for adoption and that a man named David Berkowitz called her about buying the dog. He said he lived on Pine Street in Yonkers and would come by her place soon to be. pick it up. The lady said that later that day, another man called her about buying her German shepherd, and strangely enough, he lived in the same neighborhood as the first caller. Could it have been someone from the car family? Now, Berkowitz was arrested two days later, so he never got the dog, but isn't it strange that there were two different stories involving Berkowitz and German Shepherds when three were found murdered near his apartment? Terry looked into this further and ended up

finding stories of people all around the U.S. that happened upon sacrificed German Shepherds. Some in Houston, California, and even some in Minot, North Dakota, where John Carr lived. He also found out that between 1976 and 1977, 85 Doberman and German Shepherds were found skin to death in Walden, New York, just an hour's drive from Yonkers. This podcast is sponsored by Better Help. Is there something out there that's interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals? For myself, I struggle heavily from mental health issues.

I'm very open with them with people online, and I feel like more people need to be because a lot of people are out there struggling with these things, and either there's a stigma around them or they don't want to admit that they have them, but BetterHelp is an amazing service that connects you with a licensed professional therapist, like very quickly with a touch of your fingers. BetterHelp is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches, so they make it easy and free to change therapists, if not. needed. You can find the right person to help you, and it's so easy. BetterHelp wants you to start living a happier life today. All you have to do is visit their website and read the testimonials

that are posted daily. I've read so many amazing comments from people and reviews of the service, and let me tell you guys from Courtney and I using BetterHelp, we both really genuinely enjoy it, and we've grown and thrived with it. I mean, there are over two million people who have used BetterHelp to take charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. A lot of people love this service and I'm sure you guys will too online. So if you want to take charge of your mental health, just go to betterhelp.com slash MIA. That's BetterHELP.com slash MIA.

And join the over 2 million people have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. Now, let's get back to today's fascinating and dark tale. Another interesting finding had to do with the symbol that Berkwoods drew at the bottom of his son of Sam letters. The symbol was an occult talisman. And when you look at the original symbol that was drawn in the 19th century, there on the outer perimeter is the word Berkyle, which looks a lot like the name, Berkowitz. On the other end of the symbol is the word a Maserac, which is interesting because early Satanists would often use. backwards wording and a Maserac backwards contains the name Sam Carr. Once Terry uncovered

this information he knew he was in deep and he wanted to find out everything he could about this satanic cult and more importantly he wanted to find out who else was a member. But it wouldn't be long until Terry got confirmation that there were in fact other members. A friend of his named Jim Medeker who was an investigative journalist would be given the opportunity to talk with David Berkowitz. The two would talk about a lot, but the most important part of this interview was when Berkowitz handed Medeker a piece of paper, and the words on this paper would confirm all of Terry's suspicions, because in part it read, People want my blood, but they don't want to listen to what I have to say. This is all a plot.

There are other sons out there. God help the world. For the first time, Berkowitz was admitting that he did not work alone. He never specified who the other sons of Sam were, but Terry and his colleagues had a pretty good idea. And the thought of this concerned them. If Berkowitz's accomplices let him take the fall for the murders, then that means that they're still out there, probably still killing under the radar. So Terry decided that it was time to go to the police with all of the information he had gathered. He took boxes of evidence to to the DA's office and told them everything.

He showed them pictures of the composite sketch that was made after the Lamino and Damasi shooting and how it looked identical to John Carr. He even pointed out that Carr owned the exact same Army Fatigue Jacket that the shooter was seen wearing that night and how both the shooter and John Carr were left-handed. Terry told authorities about the son of Sam letters and how they were saturated with references of the Carr family. he told them about the cult and how Berkowitz himself admitted that he did not act alone. But unfortunately, the authorities didn't care, and they sent Terry away pretty much telling him that they weren't interested in any of the information he had to offer.

Terry felt defeated, like the NYPD was more interested in making all of this go away than they were in discovering the truth. But Terry was on a mission, a mission to prove that John Carr was responsible for. at least some of the murders. And one of his top priorities throughout the entire investigation was to locate John Carr. But after months and months of digging and calling around, he came up with nothing. It seemed like he was untraceable. But then, one day, as Terry was driving by the Carr's family home, he sees a blue 1971 Mercury with North Dakota license plates. He had finally found him. But his excitement wouldn't last long because just days later, on February 18th, Terry got a call from his mother.

Mari, there's something you need. Talked by her statement, replies, what do you mean he's dead? His car's here in New York. I've been watching it all week. And she goes on to tell him that she read a column in the paper saying that he died in Minot, North Dakota. Terry could not believe what he was hearing and he called his friend Jim Medeker to discuss the matter. The column in the paper didn't mention any cause of death, so Mitigur called the Minot Police Department to find out. Terry sat by the phone for an hour, eagerly waiting for Middiger to tell him the news. Listen to this carefully, because you're not going to believe it. It was violent gunshot, and they think it's a murder. Although there's a

chance, it could be suicide, but they're treating it as a homicide. Either way, the guy is dead violently right in the wake of our handing him over. Terry just couldn't believe it. John Carr was dead right after he gave his name to the authorities. And it wouldn't be long until he discovered all of the suspicious details surrounding his death. Apparently, in late January, John Carr told all of his friends that he was leaving North Dakota for a few months to spend some time in New York. At the time, John had no idea that Terry had given his name to the police. But once he got to New York, he quickly left and flew back to North Dakota, leaving his car in Yonkers. What happened in New York that made him end his trip two months early?

Did he find out that he was being looked into for the son of Sam killings? Did someone threaten him? We don't know. But what we do know is that just two days after he left New York, he was found dead inside of his home in North Dakota. His death would end up being ruled a suicide. But many, many people disagree with this finding. including Minot Deputy Sheriff Terry Gardner, he and Mori Terry would go on to point out a lot of flaws in the early investigation.

For example, John Carr was shot with a rifle and the bullet completely obliterated his face, killing him instantly. But if that's the case, then why were there blood smears on the wall by his body? John Carr couldn't have done that, so that means that someone else was there at the scene. There was also a little of his blood in the living room. On the baseboards by his body, written in blood, were the letters, NYSS. Both Terry and Gardner assumed that that could possibly mean New York son of Sam. But that's all just speculation. In addition, the rifle that was used was found in a weird position, almost like it had been purposely placed there on top of him. There was no suicide note,

and on his bloody hands traced into the blood were what looked to be the numbers 666. We can't post the photos to our Instagram because they'll get taken down, but we will post them on our Patreon. So if you're not already a patron, go subscribe so you can see the pictures. But one would think that all of this evidence clearly leads to a homicide. And it seemed like the Minot Police Department were heading in that direction, but soon after they got a call from the Yonkers Police Department, they declared it a suicide. Terry was certain that his death was somehow connected to the son of Sam case. What are the odds that John Carr would end up dead right after his name was given to law enforcement? Did someone find him?

out about this and kill him because his cover was being blown? Did they kill him to keep him quiet? Or was he just a loose end that needed to be taken care of for the sake of the cult? Terry and Deputy Gardner worked together with all of this evidence, and here is what they believed happened to John Carr. They believe someone entered his house that day, someone involved in the son of Sam killings. Upon entering the house, they come upon John who is sitting in the living room and they beat him, knocking him, knocking him. him unconscious, which explains why there was blood found in the living room. Afterwards, the intruder drags him to his bedroom, and they leave the room momentarily to grab John's rifle.

When they do, John, who is barely conscious, writes in blood along the baseboards, hoping that when people see it, they'll know why he's dead. When the intruder comes back into the room, he places the gun in John's mouth and pulls the trigger. Afterwards, he lays the gun down by John and leaves without anyone noticing. And here is an interesting clip that I found of the Minot Police Detective Sergeant Mike Noop, claiming that after some further investigation, his department believed that John Carr's death was a homicide. First, it was thought that had been a suicide, but subsequent investigation, the interviews lead us to believe that it's very likely a homicide. After Terry's true.

to Minot, he was tired of being silent, and just days later he would release an article about the entire incident, and the public was finally learning of John Carr and his possible involvement in the murders, and it soon came to light that he was in New York for five of the son of Sam Killings, the Lamino-Demassie shooting, where the composite sketch looked just like him, the Christine Freund shooting, the shooting outside the Elifist Disco, the murder of Donaloria, and the murder of Stacey Moskowitz, which, coincidentally, were most of the shootings where David Berkowitz had a hard time recalling the details in his confession. A lot of people in the city, after learning this information, could not deny the fact that

John Carr was involved. And the general idea was that this group worked together at each murder. When one person pulled the trigger, someone else was on the lookout. It also came out that Berkowitz bought his 44 caliber bulldog in Houston in June of 1976. And can you guess who else was in Houston at the same time? That's right, John Carr. So who was John Carr? He was born in Yonkers on October 12, 1946.

As we mentioned before, he and his siblings grew up in a very abusive home at the hands of their father, Sam Carr. After high school, John enrolled in college, but later dropped out to join the Air Force, and he served for 12 years before being discharged for disciplinary reasons. After this, John was living in between Minot, North Dakota, and Yonkers for years. He got married, had a child, got divorced, and he spent the last years of his life in and out of trouble. On February 10th, just days before his death, he had a phone call with his girlfriend, during which he said the cops were hot on his trail and he'd have to leave to New York for a while. This information highly suggests that John Carr was guilty of something simply because innocent people don't run. With John Carr dead, Terry's investigation was kind of at a standstill, but soon he would receive the opportunity of a lifetime, a chance to talk with Berkowitz himself.

This interview would reveal a lot of unanswered questions. Here are a few that stood out to us. Do you know a person named John Carr? Yes. How did you know John Carr? I don't want to talk about it. Do you think if you gave me the answers to these questions that other people might end up in jail? There's a good possibility, and I wouldn't want that to happen.

Did any of the psychiatrists ever ask you if other people were involved in these crimes? No. Did anybody ever ask you? if other people were involved. I don't think so. If you were to tell all you know about this, there would be other dangerous people who would get in trouble.

Isn't that so? They might get in trouble. How many people are you protecting by not disclosing everything? I don't know. Would it be fair to say it is at least eight or ten people? Well, I don't know.

Can you give me an approximate number? I think it's in the hundreds. Tell us about the symbol you used in the son of Sam letters. Did that symbol have significant? significance to the Elephus Disco shooting? Yes, I believe somebody put it in my mind to write that. Can you tell us about why you went to Houston?

I'd rather not talk about it. Is that for the same reason that other people may get in trouble? Yes. If you thought these other people were out hurting society at large, you would care about it, though, wouldn't you? Well, I don't think too much can be done about the situation now. Do you know why John Carr killed himself? I might.

You would have an idea why he might. have done it? You're smiling now. All right, I am smiling, but I don't know why he shot himself in the head. Is there any chance these other people may be hurting people like you did? There is a possibility. Do you feel any moral obligation to tell the authorities about that possibility? They're not going to do anything. They are absolutely powerless. When you were living there, were people killing dogs and putting them on the aqueduct? Yes. Did you know who was killing the dogs then? I had an idea. Would it mean anything to you if I told you they were still killing dogs in that area?

I'm not surprised. You have some idea who was killing the dogs. Is that it? Yes. Would it be possible that the same people who are killing the dogs could also kill people? It is possible. Would you help the authorities to stop that if it was going on? There is nothing I can do. Why do you say that?

It is over. Isn't it true that John Wheaties is John Carr? It is a strong possibility. You deliberately used his name in a letter, didn't you? Yes. Did you do that to kind of point the finger of suspicion at him, or at least cause him trouble or harm? Yes.

You have told us you know John Carr, and John Carr, in fact, fits the description of some of the people composite sketches before you were arrested. Isn't that so? Yes, it appears that way. It doesn't really matter. He is dead now, isn't he?

Can you distinguish between a person who is not a nice fellow and an ordinary, person? I'd say anybody who worships the devil. It's not a nice person. Are you telling me that the Carr brothers worship the devil? I believe they did. I know, I know. It feels like the year just started, but can you believe it? The holidays are right around the corner. I can't believe it myself. It's almost my 25th birthday, halfway to 30. That's crazy. But when's the last time you got a gift that you really wanted for yourself? No one knows you better than yourself, and you should get yourself this year the gift that you've always wanted, a better smile. And my friends at Candid can help. While poorly

reviewed or insanely priced clear liner companies use general dentists, Candid only works with orthodontists who are experts in tooth movement. With Candid, the same orthodontists who created your plan can track your progress so you never have to wonder how you're doing. You can book an appointment at a Candid studio near you or do everything from the comfort and convenience of your own home. The average Candid treatment is just six months. You'll start seeing results way before then, and it costs thousands less than traditional braces. And with your liner treatment, you'll get Candid's teeth whitening for free.

This year, treat yourself to the gift you always wanted, a straighter, brighter smile. Right now, you can get started from home for just $15 with a Candid starter kit. Or you can book an appointment at a Candid Studio near you today. Go to candidco.com slash America and use Code America. That's CandidC.O.com slash America code America. Take advantage of this limited time offer

for a $15 starter kit. candidseo.com slash America Code America. Now, let's get back into this deep, dark dive. Berkowitz would have his day in court soon after this interview, but he would end up pleading guilty for his crimes, avoiding a trial altogether. But at his sentencing, he made sure to cause some trouble. Maybe he wanted to show the world that he was the crazy madman

that everyone made him out to be. Or maybe he was acting out to get attention, but as the guards escorted him in, he was kicking and biting. And once he was inside, he started screaming, Stacy was a whore. Stacey's mother responded by screaming back, You animal, you should be killed. The Motskavitses had been very vocal in their hatred towards Berkowitz, and they were very pleased when he was sentenced to six consecutive life sentences.

Everyone left the court that day happy that this nightmare was finally behind them. But after hearing the evidence that Terry had gathered, the Moskowitz family seemed to change their perspective on the entire case. The father, Jerry, would later say, I went along with what the cops said, but I always knew he didn't look anything like the sketches. And I got to know a lot of the local police as a result of what happened. And a lot of them aren't convinced it was him either. And here, interestingly enough, is another clip of Stacey Moskowitz's parents talking to a TV interviewer, telling them that they They don't believe David Berkowitz was the man who killed their daughter.

I had to hate somebody. And the only one I knew, the only name I thought was Berkowitz. So I had to hate David. In my opinion, the New York Police Department covered it up. The city covered it up. I don't know what the New York City police did. I still don't know what they did. I feel the city did wrong.

They never followed up the case. And I heard quotes from judges that this case would break wide open in New York. And when it does, there's going to be a lot of heads rolling. And interestingly enough, even from prison, years later, David Berkowitz himself would go on the record and claim that he wasn't the one who killed Stacey Moskowitz. Here's a clip about David telling the interviewer that he wasn't the one that killed Stacy. Was that you? I was there at all of them in the area and scouting. I had a part.

I'm responsible for... by involvement of those things, he was definitely guilty. But even though Terry was opening people's eyes to the truth on the case, it didn't matter. Berkowitz was in jail. John Carr was dead and he felt like he had reached a dead end. But somehow, he came into contact with a detective in Minot, North Dakota. This detective was willing to help Terry investigate John Carr, even after his death.

This detective heard Terry's story and believed that there had to be more to the case. So he arranged some meetings with some of John Carr's old friends. And they had a lot to say. They told them that Carr and Berkowitz were definitely friends, and that they had even seen Berkowitz in Minot with John on one occasion. Other friends claim that they had seen John write the son of Sam's symbol on phone books four months before Berkowitz even drew the symbols in his letters. It's also interesting that around this time,

the Minot Police Department had many reports of a cult activity happening in their city, including finding multiple sacrificed German shepherds. When detectives questioned John's friends about his participation in the cult, they said that he wasn't just a member of the cult. He was the leader. And on at least one occasion, he was seen by a friend sacrificing a German shepherd and drinking its blood during a supposed ritual. The investigator also talked to a local counselor in Mynott, and he had a lot to say.

He claimed that one day in 1978, John Carr stumbled into his place of work, needing some assistance. He was clearly in a bad state, and he went on to tell the counselor that he had gotten in some trouble with the law back in New York, and that someone was trying to kill him. When the counselor pushed a little more, Carr told him that he was involved in, witchcraft and was associated with the son of Sam killings. Terry knew that these findings were huge. And for weeks, the Minot Police Department started sending information over to the Brooklyn DA's office. But surprise, surprise, they weren't interested in that information. Shortly after this, Terry would receive even more shocking news about the case.

Michael Carr, John Carr's brother, was dead. On October 4th at about 4 a.m., Michael Carr was driving at about 7.000. 75 miles per hour on New York's West Side Highway, when his Buick struck a streetlight, killing him instantly. He was essentially the last piece of the car puzzle, and now he was dead. But when you hear the details of this crash, it doesn't seem like his death was an accident. For instance, there were no skin marks on the road, meaning that Michael never hit his brakes. Investigators also noticed a fresh mark on the passenger's side fender, almost like someone had hit him and tried to run him off the road. Michael's loved one said that he wasn't a

fast driver and that he knew that highway very well. Most people believe that he was either run off the road by someone or that he knew people were looking into him for his involvement in the son of Sam case, so he crashed the car on purpose. But no one really knows, and Michael's death, much like his brothers, is still a mystery to this day. But one thing that is abundantly clear is that both of the real sons of Sam were now dead, killed in suspicious manners before they could provide any information to Terry or the authorities. When most people think of the son of Sam case, they think of David Berkowitz and John Carr. But Michael Carr's name is an important part of this story too.

If you remember, he strongly resembles one of the composite sketches from the shootings. And Berkowitz himself admitted that Michael was involved. So who was Michael Carr? He, like his brother, grew up in Yonkers and worked as a photographer and a graphics illustrator in the city. Michael was known for racking up a ton of credit card debt, some under fake names, and he was very involved in Scientology. Michael was also known for getting into some trouble. A bartender would even come forward later on, claiming that Michael and Berkowitz came by his bar one night. He remembered it very clearly because he actually had to throw them out.

And just moments after throwing him out, someone started shooting at the building. One of the bullets even hit a woman in her ankle. After an investigation was done, detectives determined that the gun used was either a 38 special or a 357 magnum, both of which were guns that Michael owned. But even though their investigation of the Carr brothers was getting some traction, it didn't really matter because they were both dead. And you can't convict a dead man. But the mysterious murders and accidents surrounding their family and the son of Sam Colt would continue for years after their deaths. Shortly before Michael died, he somehow got word that Terry had come to Minot and talked with Deputy Gardner. Just days later, Gardner was shot at. Another strange happening occurred with

Weed Carr's husband, the Yonkers police officer. Around the same time Gardner was being shot at, someone would shoot at his squad car. When other investigators eventually investigated the scene where the shots were coming from, they found coffee and cigarettes, almost like someone was waiting for him to drive by. And lastly, John Carr's friends, the ones who helped the Minot Police Department in their investigation, would also face the curse of being associated with the car family. The friends in question were Tom Taylor and Darlene Christensen. The two had been driving home after a late night when suddenly a red Chevy sped up from behind them. The car rode on their tail so close that it eventually ran them off the road into a ditch. Both would escape the crash

with minor injuries, but just a few days later, Tom would attempt suicide. Friends of his would later say that Tom was scared for his life, and that they believed he had knowledge of something he wasn't supposed to. They also said, he had no money, yet he somehow came up with over $1,000 to fly to New York with Darlene for John Carr's funeral. He never gave a consistent answer as to why he went or where the money came from. I think he was a mule of some sort, taking something to New York then, or bringing something back without knowing what it was. But we can't prove it. All these incidents happened within a 10-day span, someone shooting at both Gardner and Wheat Carr's husband, Michael Carr dying in a suspicious car accident, and John Carr's friends

getting run off the road, and it became clear that someone was trying to eliminate anyone and everyone associated with the case. After two years, Terry finally felt like he had enough information to expose everything he had uncovered, and he took all of his information to the newspapers in an article titled Satanic Colt Tide to Son of Sam Killings. For the first time in years, the public was figuring out the true story. And he also had the support of public officials. Shortly after the article was published, Queen's District Attorney John Santushy held a press conference where he would say this.

I believe that David Berkowitz did not act alone, that in fact others did corroborate aid and abet him in the commission of these crimes. And with that, Santushi agreed to reopen the Son of Sam case, a moment that Terry had been waiting for since his investigation started. But investigators that worked the original Son of Sam case were livid. In their minds, they believed the case was solved, and reopening it was only going to expose everything that they had missed. But Santushi was able to get a lot more information than the original police force ever did,

information that Terry didn't have access to. Like an interview with Wheat Carr, John's sister. In this interview, we told investigators, quote, As to John's involvement in the cult, I'm not going to deny it. There's no way I can deny it. I'd be stupid to deny that. I'll tell you the truth.

I don't even care if my verdict comes up totally dirty. I just want it resolved. Wheat revealed a lot to investigators about her brothers and what they got into, around the city. And now at Santucci was doing his part in the investigation, Terry started looking more into the cult that John and Michael were involved with. And he figured that with all of the murders and suicides taking place, there had to be more

members. And throughout his research, he kept seeing the name of a particular organization, the Process Church of the Final Judgment. The organization had strong roots with Scientology, and over the years had become a prominent part of the occult movement. The church started in London in 1963, with a man named Robert de Grimston, and he was a man named Robert de Grimston. And it began as almost a psychotherapy type church where people could come and talk about their traumas. And it seems like it was a good church that really helped people. And as the years

went on, it developed into a more spiritual type practice. Its leaders believed that they should be away from the city, surrounded by nature. So they moved the church to Mexico. But shortly after they arrived, they were hit with a massive hurricane that ruined their city. When they got back to London, they had an almost apocalyptic view of the world, like the end times were near. And it was Around this time when the group started dipping into extreme practices, they believed that instead of separating good and evil, like most religions do, it was their duty to bring good and evil together. They thought that by doing this and creating chaos around the world, it would bring them closer to the end times. The leader of this group was once quoted saying, quote,

human creations, human conventions, human conventions, human laws. All these should be destroyed to make way for a new age and a new way of life." End quote. The process of the process of Church wore black caves and silver crosses, and interestingly, a common practice that this group was known for was their tendency to sacrifice German shepherds. But their preachings of hate and destruction reached farther than just the UK. They started sending their people to the United States in the late 1960s, specifically in Los Angeles, San Francisco, New Orleans, and of course New York. This group had a huge influence on certain parts of America, and people like Charles Manson even took from some of their practices. Manson in some of his interviews actually made references to Scientology and the

Process Church. And even further, members of the process went to visit Manson while he was incarcerated, but after Manson was put in prison, the Process Church started operating underground, and they dispersed throughout the United States. And like with most religions, subgroups started forming that took ideas from the Process Church, just like the children in New York City. Upon finding this information, this was all more than just a coincidence for Terry. John and Michael Carr were known for being involved in Scientology and the occult, and they were known to sacrifice German shepherds. They were also rumored to be a part of the children cult

that would meet in Untermeier Park near Pine Street. Shortly after uncovering this information, Terry would receive a letter from Berkowitz that confirmed everything he had just learned about the occult. The letter read, I am guilty of these crimes, but I didn't do it all. I was part of a cult, and there are others behind the son of Sam murders. I can safely tell you that one member, John Carr, is deceased.

Many others have vanished, scattered about all over the USA. So this leaves both you and me alone. Mari, the public will never, ever truly believe you, no matter how well your evidence is presented. Berkowitz also sent a package to a detective in Minot, North Dakota. In this package was a book called The Anatomy of Witchcraft. As the detective flipped through the pages, he saw a note from Berkowitz that read, quote, Arliss Perry, hunted, stalked, and slain, followed to California, Stanford University.

No one knew what this meant at the time, but after a little digging into the name Arles Perry, it became all too clear. Arliss was a young woman from Bismarck, North Dakota, who had moved to California, with her husband who was studying at Stanford University. On October 13th, 1974, the young couple was in their resident hall. Her husband was studying for exams, and Arles decided to go take a walk. She had some male descend, and then she planned to stop by the local church to pray. Arles was a very religious girl, and the church was usually her safe place.

But on this night, it would be everything but safe. It would become her place of death because late that night, a security guard happened upon her body in the church. He immediately called in for backup and reported that she may have died from an overdose or a suicide. But when detectives got unseen, they found Arles naked halfway under the pew with her leg spread wide open. She had a stain on her jeans and a five-foot altar candle was shoved inside of her vagina. But this candle didn't kill her. She died from someone stabbing her in the head with an ice pick. After looking at the entire scene,

detectives believed that Arliss was praying in the church when someone snuck up behind her and brutally assaulted and murdered her. They dusted the candlestick for fingerprints, but it didn't match her husband, nor the security guard that found her. And after this, the case kind of went cold. But after Berkowitz left, the chilling note and his, book to the Minot Detective, Terry was certain that a cult member from North Dakota targeted

her, followed her to California, and finished the ritual killing at the Stanford Church. This idea was confirmed even further when people came forward saying that at one point Arles had tried to convert a cult member in Bismarck to Christianity. It became apparent that because of this incident, they put a target on her head. Berkowitz would later say that he knew exactly who killed. killed Arles Perry, and that one day he was at a cult meeting in Queens when a man stood up and announced that he killed her. The detectives working the Arles Perry case heard this, and they went to give Berkowitz a surprise visit. But they were disappointed because he refused to

reveal who her killer was. At the time, he already had a nasty wound on his neck from an inmate trying to slit his throat, and he told detectives, if I tell you his name, they're going to kill my father. So detectives left the prison that day without any answers on who killed Arles Perry. So if you're a little confused right now about why David wasn't telling the police the answers that they were seeking, David himself was afraid for the safety of his own family members, his friends that were not involved in the cult. Here's a clip from David talking to an interviewer in prison about why he was so afraid. I was concerned for my family too, you know. And, you know, things happen so quickly.

I couldn't think straight anymore. Just couldn't think straight anymore. It's under so much pressure. But I didn't want to see any one of my family hurt. They could have done that easily. And in addition, here's a clip of David explaining that when he was arrested, he was told beforehand that he was going to be the one taking the fall. The actual cult members had reached out to everybody in the cult in the days beforehand

and spread the word that the police were on to David, and David was the fall guy. And being so heavily invested in the cult at that point in his life, he just assumed the role. Here's David. I knew it was just pretty much going to be. Everything was getting groomed for the last few days. You just kind of get picked up or something.

Somebody knew something and says, well, you know, you're going to take a fall for this. So it just, it was just being, everything was just being set up. That was the role, you know. I had sold myself to the devil. I got to do it. You got to do it. You got to take the soldier. There's a soldier, you know.

We've got to take the weight. It's like in the Army. I mean, I was in the infantry in the United States Army, and, you know, you were trained. If you got caught, you just give the enemy your name, ranking serial number. And that's what Satan does to you. It seemed like after the,

this, David Berkowitz was finished talking. He had already said too much. He refused to give Terry any more information, and he was pretty tight-lipped with just about everyone. Everyone except his cellmate in prison. In episode 42 of murder in America, we discussed a murder that occurred in New York on Halloween night of 1981. It was the murder of a photographer named Ronald Sissman and his 19-year-old girlfriend, Elizabeth Platsman. We ended the episode with some unanswered questions. But after hearing this story, everything will make a lot more sense. Berkowitz had been in prison for years at this point, but two weeks before the murders occurred, he predicted that a photographer in Greenwich Village was going to be shot on Halloween night.

It's obvious that someone among the cult was giving Berkowitz this information, because he was right. Ronald and his girlfriend were killed in Greenwich on Halloween. But Ronald was not an innocent bystander killed by the cult. Berkowitz told his cellmate that Ronald was actually. actually hired by the cult to record the murder of Stacey Moskowitz for a snuff film. Apparently, he hid in a nearby van and recorded the entire thing. Back in that time, according to investigators, snuff films or videos of real murders could sell for up to $50,000, and that was very, very good money.

But after the snuff film was made, Ronald was accused of drugging actress Melanie Holler. The cult members got worried that Ronald might reveal them if he got into legal trouble, so they decided to kill him to keep him quiet. Both Elizabeth and Ronald would lose their lives that Halloween night. But like we mentioned in the previous episodes, their murder is still unsolved to this day. But a man named Jesse Turner would later come forward and answer a lot of the questions people have regarding this case.

Jesse was an imprisoned bank robber who had ties to the process church. According to him, he had witnessed a murder while he lived with some members of the church in New Orleans, Louisiana, and he had also seen the insides of the Process Church's child sex trafficking ring. Jesse also had a friend who was a famous photographer named Michael Mapleshorpe. Robert was a controversial figure in his time who also had ties to the Process Church. And in 1981, Robert approached Jesse and told him that Ronald Sissman was in possession of snuff films that were commissioned by the process church and that the church wanted their films back.

Jesse, listening to orders, claimed that he hired two gunmen who went in, murdered Ronald and Elizabeth, and retrieved the five snuff films that Ronald had, one of which was the film of Stacey Moskowitz's murder. Jesse gave the authorities from prison the names of the two hired hitmen, and they were brought in for questioning. One of these men miserably failed the polygraph test, and the other polygraph's test results were labeled deceptive because he tried to beat the machine. At this point, the two alleged gunmen hired lawyers, and it seemed like they were about to get brought in for murder.

But then, the entire investigation came to a halt. According to the official reports, the NYPD didn't have enough evidence to bring in charges. But according to an unidentified federal agent, who later spoke to the press, the investigation was shut down because the higher-ups in the department realized that it eventually led to the son of Sam case.

This story sounded too good to be true. And here is a little bit of audio. This audio is Jesse Turner, the process church affiliate and bank robber speaking from prison about Ronald and Elizabeth's murder. The reason for killing people? Sometimes it would be financial, Sometimes it would be vengeful, and sometimes it would just be...

Is that what they wanted? Yeah, a social Armageddon, you know, not an Armageddon in the biblical sense. It was not a member of the process. He was associated with... There was a snuff film, then what happened with it? Ordered it? Yes. Well, ma'am, you know, there was several copies made. He did any additional confirmation that Stacey Moskowitz's murder was filmed and turned into a snuff film.

Here's David, in prison. confirming that this happened to an interviewer. This time when the sacrifice had been made, this is all, you know, part of the ritual and everything. And there was some filming going on. Somebody wanted to film it for somebody else or whatever. And here's a New York police detective or investigator speaking under anonymity about why the department would have had

some sort of reason to cover up the murders, of Robert and Elizabeth. They learned that the investigation led on into the Sun of Sand case, and that there were things were messed up during that case. Of course, it would be embarrassing to an agency who, an investigation had not looked forward into it. There's murderers running loose on the street today, and they didn't put them in jail. And once again, before we go any further, I want to clarify that the New York

Police Department had a reason to cover up this entire conspiracy. At the time, they wanted to close the door, close the chapter of the son of Sam, and show everybody in the city how proficient their department was at solving these crimes and these homicides, bringing these bad guys in for arrest. Now, here are a couple clips that I found of various detectives, investigators, people even associated with the New York Police Department, talking about why the department may have wanted to cover this all up, why they refused to look into it, and how they themselves believe that the son of Sam David Berkowitz did not act alone.

The son of Sam was a nut job. Why are there three cars, five different descriptions, different height, different shapes, different sizes of the perpetrator. If somebody else was there. There are other people that died as a result of the Sir Witnesses. There are other members of process, other members of the satanic organization in the Anarchist who died. other suspects in the son of Sam case were murdered. The reason goes all the way to the top of the pond. You did not want to embarrass this upon it.

There was a lot of boxes in the case. There was arrested prior to his arrest. So at this point, I'm just going to basically spell out the conspiracy for you all in layman's terms. Mari Terry, through his investigation and his book, was claiming that a satanic cult was responsible for the son of Sam murders, even though the police pinned all the shootings on one man. David Berkowitz. Allegedly there were dozens of members of this cult, including the Carr brothers, John and Michael. This group would meet in a number of places, but they mainly would meet up

in Untermeier Park, where they would sacrifice German shepherds, engage in occult activities and rituals, and would discuss their plans for murder. Here's David Berkowitz himself from a jailhouse interview, talking about how the cult formed and how they eventually turned to murder. If people dabble in things, if they follow that path that I was on, eventually they can end up destroying themselves. Because there are powers behind the scenes. Many people say, oh, bah, humbug, I don't believe that stuff. Well, it's true whether people believe it or not. It's reality.

There are powers, entities that people get involved with that could twist a person's mind, ultimately destroy that person's life. There was a time when I had given up hope. I feel so far under satanic power and satanic control that I didn't care. I was more like a robot than a person. There was a time in my life when I feel that I was just utterly under a powerful influence that was destructive. And I didn't care if I... It was a point where I didn't care if I lived or died. How did these people get such control over you?

It was a process. It took time. It was like little by little. I mean, I'm telling you, I didn't know it was going to come this way. I mean, when I got out of the service, I wanted to make a life for myself. My dad was moving to Florida. Most of my friends had all gone or all changed directions in their life. And I just wanted to make a life for myself.

I got an apartment. I had saved up. And when I was in the service, enough money to buy a used car to rent an apartment. I got a job as a security guard. I enrolled in Bronx Community College. I wanted to have a future, you know, and I don't know, everything got turned upside down. I, it just, I had good goals and I just fell into some, under some kind of powerful influence. I mean, got involved in this.

I never knew that I was going to become a murderer. I never knew that I was going to hurt anybody. I just joined for a thrill, looking for some friends, looking for some companionship, looking for some fun or whatever. You know, I was bored. I was lonely, and I got caught up in something over my head. There was a force of evil that was just so powerful. It's just so powerful.

It's beyond any human comprehension or understanding. That evil sucked in a lot of lives. I just feel this powerful force was just moving me along. It just pushed me in that direction. Somebody had told me to get a copy of the Satanic Bible. I didn't even know it was such a thing as a Satanic Bible. He told me to go to a bookstore. It's in any bookstore.

I went and got a copy of that and began to read it. And things began to change. It's like a power or force began to actually reach out to me and kind of take charge over my life, kind of move me along. I didn't have any real hope or future or gold in mind at the time, just going from day to day. and I felt alienated. He would then meet a friend who would change his life, Michael Carr,

who had a brother named John and a father named Sam, and all would prove to be integral to the saga of Son of Sam. I met him at that party, and we just kind of got acquainted. He was basically an outgoing guy with a lot of zip, you know, a lot of wild crazy ideas. We began to talk about the occult that just came up. I was kind of like a misfit at the party. I didn't know anybody.

I was just hanging out over there. And he started the rap. And one thing led to another. Wanted to take me to this park, you know, and meet some people. You know, I was just a dumb Jewish kid from the Bronx looking for friends looking to hang out. But now looking back and seeing what had happened, I was being introduced into the occult. into Satanism. It was a recruitment process,

a slow but methodical recruitment process, yes. It was a process that took a while, and I was, I did, did begin to take vows. For a while, I had begun to be partaker of the group with chanting and rituals and various incantations.

There were animal sacrifices and other dark and other dark and over things happening. And this was a time when they began to think about maybe even taking human lives, human sacrifices. Moving deeper into the Westchester group was a mixture of more hardcore individuals, and they were known as the process in general terms. They didn't really use that name a lot.

Now, this seems like the plot of a bad horror film, but there's a lot of evidence supporting the existence of this cult. For example, there was a man nicknamed the artist, who the police worked extensively with in their later investigations into the cult. The artist got his nickname because he was indeed an artist with a photographic memory who was involved in the cult in its early years. In the years following the murders, he would sketch out as many of the cult members' faces as he could remember onto paper.

Here's a clip of the artist talking about one cult member who he in the interview identifies as the man named Ken. And following this is a clip of David Berkowitz, looking at the same sketch and identifying that man as also a man named Ken. This proves that the artist was legit and that his sketches actually resembled to real cult members. I named Ken.

He had a voice like this. Do you know who that individual is? That's Ken? Do you know where he's from or what he was a part of or anything about him? He was basically a recruiter and I thought of of the leaders or elders and the brother of the process and so forth and then moved around you know so this individual is ken from the process yeah and he was at unto myr park yeah allegedly the entire plan for the son of sam killings was hatched in a specific house owned by one of the highest

ranking members of the cult an elderly man referred to as malac here are a couple clips of david discussing the house, the high caliber occultist members who were meeting there in the house, the powerful, the rich, and talking about just what happened there in that ominous home. This individual's house and process members and leaders were there too, and they struck up the plan to go commit the 44 caliber shoes. They were high-level occultus, high-level Satanist, high-level Satanist, high-level process people. Approximately how many people were at this meeting all told? Well, maybe in rough numbers. A couple dozen. It was here in this opulent mansion mere miles from Untermeier Park,

where the murders were discussed by the group mapped and planned out. But who was this old man, the one who spearheaded this murder spree and led the 22 disciples of hell? Well, the artist at one point drew a sketch of this man. And this sketch is terrified. We will post it on our Instagram at Murder America as soon as this episode is posted. The true identity of Malak, the cult leader, is still officially unknown. But amongst the suspects, there is one man who really stands out. Allegedly, a man named Alfred H. Howell was the leader of the cult. Now, in no way are we here to slander Mr. Howell's name or are accusing him of anything.

We're just pointing out some strange facts and connecting some dots. Apparently, Alfred H. Howell owned the house where the son of Sam Plaut was had. Alfred H. Howell was a very, very rich man. He had been a higher-up investment banker with Citibank for decades. He was heavily involved with the YMCA, and he was even a member of a group that dedicated themselves to the preservation and study of ancient texts. Now, here's where all this gets weird. Once again, we return to The Artist. In April of 1996, the police had begun a secret investigation into the Son of Sam Killings, and they contacted the artist and asked him if he would come with them to a funeral of a recently deceased elderly man to see if he could identify this man

as being Malak, the cult leader. According to the artist, he brought his sketch along, and when he visited this funeral in April of 1996, he was able to positively identify the body as belonging to Malak, the cult leader. Here's a clip where the artist discusses this. The police took me to a wake, and I went in, you know, and made sure if it was him or not, and to me it was him. Now, interestingly enough, Alfred Hunt Howell, the rich banker who lived near Untermeyer Park, indeed looked a lot like the sketch.

And he died in April of 1996. But this gets even weirder. So initially, in April of 1996, news reports emerged that stated Alfred Hunt Howell died in his home from a heart attack. a natural death and that the case was closed and sealed by the New York Police Department. But fast forward two years to the year 1998, and we now meet a man named Nicolaj Amin. Nicolage had been arrested for robbery in Westchester County, New York,

and he told authorities while he was in jail that he would disclose information about a murder if they worked with him and lessened his charges. And so he talked. Nicolaish told the police that he was the one who murdered Alfred Hunt Howell. Now initially, this was laughed off by the police as according to the official record, Alfred died of a heart attack in his home, and there was never any foul play suspected. But as officials dug a little deeper into Alfred's death, they discovered some bizarre information. First of all, according to some law enforcement officials and Alfred's family members,

The 83-year-old millionaire had, on the day of his death, been discovered in his home by his butler. The butler said that he was, quote, lying next to his bed in a pool of blood. But when the police arrived shortly after his body was found, nothing was reported to be amiss. And his death was labeled natural, caused by a heart attack. Eventually, Albert's cremated remains were exhumed and analyzed, and experts detected traces of law. lead in the remains. This lead could have come from a number of things, from bullets lodged into the body to old cheap dental fillings. But it seemed to confirm Nikolaj's story that he had shot Albert to death. Now, this is obviously strange. Why would the police themselves cover up

a brutal murder? Why would they label what was obviously a very bloody shooting as a heart attack? Could it be that they knew who this man was, or how much power he had? Maybe they knew he was a suspect, and they didn't want any more questions asked about the son of Sam murders. Who knows? It could all be a coincidence, but it sure is strange. So, as you can see here, almost everyone involved in this cult either continued to be involved with the cult or was murdered. However, there were a few people that made it out alive. Here's a former cult member who calls himself Brother John Paul,

discussing how if you left the cult, you were killed, and how indeed he was recruited into the cult by none other than John Carr himself. John talked very specifically about a pyramid, okay, and that to get to another level of this pyramid, he had to turn around and prove that he was worthy of this level and had to kill somebody. The only way that you could get out of this thing was either they killed you off, you killed yourself off, which would have suicide, okay?

That was the only way to get carried out in a pine box. There are so many connections and spider webs in this story that we could honestly write a 10-part episode, but we're trying to keep it in one, so bear with us here. Here are just a few of the other cult members that were associated with the children cult, the 22 disciples of hell and the process church, that we could identify in sort of a bullet point form.

Another man that had a connection to this case was Fred Cowan. Fred was a neo-Nazi who belonged to racist organizations and groups like the National States Rights Party, and Fred worked with a man named Frank Kassara, from whom David Berkowitz rented his apartment. On Valentine's Day in 1977, Fred Cowan entered his workplace and shot 10 people. Five died immediately, one died weeks later, and while surrounded by 300 police officers, Frank fatally shot himself.

When investigators searched David's apartment, They found a file of news clippings of the massacre, and David had scribbled upon them the words, one of the sons. To us, this is a huge connection that this Fred Cowan was also among the son of Sam cult members. Steve Rockman, Steve was an accountant and former patient at the Samaritan Village Drug Rehab Facility in Manhattan,

and he, coincidentally enough, worked in the same building as future victim Christine Freund. North Dakota authorities later confirmed that whenever Steve visited North Dakota, he visited his friend, John Carr. Another man was Barry DeSenko. Barry eventually moved back from New York to North Dakota, where he was known to associate with John Carr. He was busted in the 1980s for producing methamphetamines, and when police raided his home,

they allegedly came across satanic paraphernalia. Now that in itself doesn't prove he was part of a cult, but the fact that is a fact that that he was friends with John Carr definitely raises some eyebrows. There are so many connections we can make here. Fingers we could point. The cult itself that spawned the Son of Sam murders, in fact, allegedly, was started decades before in the 1950s by a Nazi sympathizing doctor who had immigrated from England to America in the post-World War II years. The cult began as a, quote, ritual magic club that specialized in sex with children and drug dealing, end quote, and eventually morphed into what it was

when the son of Sam murders occurred and the process church got involved. This cult allegedly also had powerful ties. There were politicians, prominent and well-respected doctors, government officials involved in the cult, even some members of the New York Police Department. But at the end of the day, what was the overall point of the murders? Why did they happen? Well, remember, the cult and the process church alike wanted to enact chaos in New York City. Allegedly, the murder spree was seen by the larger global process church as an Armageddon

experiment to see just how much chaos the group could inject into the world and to see how far they could unravel society with a small string of crimes. And it worked. New York had been thrown into a state of chaos and panic. And those at the top, the executive officers of the cult had to be watching the terror unfold with a smile on their face. But no matter what, it seems like they're never will be any sort of definitive end to this story. To this day, fearful for his family's well-being and his own life, David Berkowitz has never given out the names of those involved, besides the Carr brothers. And various investigators from all sorts of agencies who have looked into these murders,

they've all met dead ends. For example, one official that started looking into the case a few decades back turned up an interesting lead. He discovered that there was a certain man who lived in the same apartment complex as David, and he actually knew David and the car brothers. His name was Jamie Kahn, and can you guess what kind of car this man drove? It was a yellow Volkswagen, the same yellow Volkswagen that was seen at multiple shootings. At the time, officials theorized that whoever was inside of that vehicle may have been the real shooter. Once discovering this man's name, investigators would go to question him about his involvement in the son of Sam's shootings.

But throughout the entire questioning, Jimmy appeared to be very paranoid, and he almost sounded afraid, afraid that if he revealed too much, he would be killed. And just a few days after he was questioned by police, Jimmy Kahn killed himself. After years of news coverage, promotion and television appearances, Marie told him. Terry and his book, The Ultimate Evil, became a staple in American culture and in the media. Mori truly was the man that exposed everything. The incompetence in the New York Police Department, the dozens of murders and suicides, the occult, everything.

Terry's book became very popular throughout the years. He was all over TV featured on daytime talk shows as a satanic cult expert. Unfortunately, though, Mori Terry would die in 2015 without ever getting the closure he expected. If only, he could have lasted. a few more years. June 2018, San Jose, California. Remember the Arles Perry case that we mentioned? The one where Berkowitz told investigators

that someone in a North Dakota cult followed Arles to California and killed her? Well, her murder would go unsolved for decades. But finally, in 2018, the DNA that was found at her crime scene had a match. And it turns out Arliss's killer had been hiding in plain sight all along. The DNA matched the Stanford security

who happened upon her body that night in the church. His name was Stephen Crawford, and he had been a free man for over 40 years after her murder. But now it was time for the police to pay him a visit. Stephen at the time was living in an apartment in San Jose, California, and on that day in 2018, police officers knocked on his front door. We're going to play the audio from the police body cameras that were recording that day. Listen very closely.

Mr. Crawford, Mr. Crawford. Can you please come to the door? It's the sheriff's office. It's the sheriff's office. Can you come to the door? Okay. Okay, thank you.

Hi, Mr. Crawford. How are you? Can you open the door for us? Sure, he'll be closed. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, thank you.

Mr. Crawford, how you doing? Uh, pretty well. I guess I'm kind of full, I'm sorry. Okay, I just want to make sure you're okay. Doing all right, Mr. Crawford? Yeah, really difficult, but you're getting like that way. Mr. Crawford, we can help you out.

Okay, I have to feel a little bit of various about that. Okay. Can you help you miss your best? Well, I can help you miss your best? Well, I just had to show you something real quick when you opened the door. Mr. Crawford, we're going to help you out. Mr. Gun, gun, gun. Mr. Crawford, put the gun away.

Mr. Crawford, put the gun away. Mr. Crawford, put the gun away. Do you have a visual inside? Is he moving at all? Like, do you feel like you could get in there and remove the gun or do you want to wait? Mr. Crawford. Nothing. Anyone else in the apartment?

Anyone else in the apartment? Anyone else in the apartment? Yes, before he could be taken in, questioned or held responsible for his horrific crime, Stephen Crawford pulled out a gun and killed himself. This was obviously shocking and was not the response that officers thought they would receive from Stephen. It seemed like Stephen had lived his whole life paranoid about getting caught for his transgression and that he always kept a loaded pistol close by in case he was ever caught. And this, this suicide, this discovery comes with the ultimate collusion.

The ultimate thing that would deepen the mystery of Mari Terry's search. When detectives went into Stephen Crawford's apartment after his suicide, there on the shelf, they found a copy of Mari Terry's book, The Ultimate Evil, the book that originally introduced the world to the story that we've been covering this entire episode. In the book, it mentions that a fellow cult member was the one who murdered Arles Perry in California. So, was Stephen Crawford a member of the cult? Was he worried that at some point Maury Terry was onto him? We aren't sure, and we can never get those answers because, just like everyone else involved

in this case, Stephen Crawford is now dead, and he took whatever secrets he might have had with him to the grave. Once again, Mori Terry died before any answers or any real concrete solution could be provided for the son of Sam Case. But he did leave us with his book, which shed light on the facts that so many tried to cover up. Terry's book, and the Son of Sam conspiracy was actually a huge factor in the spark of the satanic panic that would run rampant throughout the United States in the 1980s and 90s. And although most of the satanic panic was bogus and a lot of people were accused and convicted of crimes that

they never committed, the son of Sam case was different. People were legitimately dying at the hands of these cults. And the satanic cult's reach wasn't just in New York. city. It was all over America. And it makes us wonder if the satanic panic was indeed something to be afraid of, because if what Berkowitz said was true, they were operating everywhere, and there's nothing we or law enforcement could do or can do to stop them. Terry dedicated his life to exposing everything in the son of Sam case, but after David Berkowitz was arrested, the cult members laid low. They let him take the fall and they operated more discreetly. Interestingly Interestingly enough, a few years later, the process church moved to Atlanta, Georgia, and

just a year after they started up in Atlanta, the Atlanta child murders began to happen, which if you'll remember is a case sort of similar to the Son of Sam, where the guy who was convicted of the crimes claimed later on that he didn't do them. Anyone that could have been convicted or could have helped provide answers in the Son of Sam case, well, they're all dead. So unfortunately, this is where our story ends. of the hundreds of suspected members that were involved in this case, the son of Sam Killings, in the eyes of the law, all of these murders, all of these crimes fell on only one man,

David Berkowitz. And interestingly enough, in prison, David Berkowitz has been a model inmate. He has given his life over to religion. He's a full-on Christianity, heads a ministry. So to end this podcast, I'm going to let David speak. And we're going to hear from from him about his life's journey, his reconciliation with what he did and his involvement in these crimes, and how he, in prison, has allegedly turned his life completely around, and that those on the outside are the ones still living in darkness. But mainly today, I just see that my calling in life, what I feel is my calling is to share the good news of Jesus Christ and to reach as many with that message of hope as possible.

I mean, even in other countries today, you know, the videos are going into the Philippines, into Russia, translated in different languages, Romania, in Romania. I mean, I have to look at that and say, well, I can't do anything about the past. I made wrong choices. I did foolish things. I threw my life away. I hurt other people and destroyed their lives, and I'm sorry for that. I can't change the past anymore. If I only knew what I was getting into at the beginning is, I said I would have just.

ran away. Compare the David Berkowitz of 1977 to the David Berkowitz today. Huh. The difference? The David Berkowitz of the past was a very guy living without a lot of, without any hope and was a very troubled and tormented person. It was a, I believe that I was a demon possessed and the reason is because I was a demon possessed. The reason is because I allowed Satan to enter into me

and through rituals and incantations and other stupid things. I look back at that and save Ben, that was garbage. I was an idiot to even do those things. But I didn't think it was gonna end in destruction of others and even throwing my own life away. But today, thanks to Christ, I've been, today I'm living with hope. I know that God has forgiven me even though others may never forgive me,

and I have peace with God, I have peace with myself. I have joy. I have a future. And I believe that Christ is coming soon, and one day I'm going to be with him. One day, you know, that's one of the tenets of the Christian faith is that Christ will come again. And when that happens, an instant of an eye,

I'll be up in heaven with him. And that's a hope that millions of Christians have. I live with that hope and I face the future looking forward to being a good, being the best I can be as a person and trying to touch as many lives as possible, trying to reach out to as many as possible in the time I have left, however long that may be. You said that you believe that God has forgiven you. Yes. But have you been able to forgive yourself or is that something you'll never be able to do? There was a long time of struggle where I couldn't forgive myself. And I went through a lot of pain during that time period.

But one day a minister was preaching a sermon from the book of Micah, the prophet. And he talked about God, taking all your sins and throwing them into the sea of forgetfulness, never to be remembered anymore. And as he was speaking, I felt like God's spirit. I know it's a hard thing to understand, but I kind of sense God's spirit just kind of blooming me in that moment. where I felt God was reaching out to me and saying, David, your sins are forgiven. David, I have completely forgiven you. I love you.

I want you to know that. And right then and there, it's like a light went off inside me. And I knew from that moment that my sins were completely forgiven. They were forgiven the moment I came to Christ, but it took me a number of years before I was finally able to realize the need to just forgive myself and to let go. And that's what I try to do today is just let go with the past as much as possible. I hate talking about it. I hate dwelling on it. It's like another life that I don't even recognize anymore.

You were talking about forgiveness in a spiritual sense. Yes. But I don't think that you're implying, or are you, that the rest of society should just say, okay, no harm, no foul. No, not at all. I mean, I committed serious crimes. I deserve to be in prison for the rest of my life. I recognize that. I know that people will never forgive me.

That's okay. That's normal, you know. That's... But still my life, my life. Well, everybody, that wraps up our son of Sam's story. I hope you guys enjoyed it on this month's Patreon discussion. Courtney and I are going to have a lot to talk about. Isn't that right?

Definitely. If you guys loved this episode and you love our show, please consider giving us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts and share this episode on your social media. Take a screenshot posted on Twitter, Instagram, and be sure to tag us at Murder in America. Thank you to our wonderful patrons. If you want additional content, make sure to download the app Patreon and look up Murder in America. You can chat with us on there daily and you get bonus content for just $5 a month. Our new patrons this week are L.

Nanny Harita. Thomas Lantis. Jamie Shaddle Ryan Maxwell Andy and Kelsey Also guys like I just said Make sure to follow us on all of our social media At Murder in America

And join our Facebook group We've got a bunch of you guys on Facebook And it's free I don't know why you wouldn't be doing that You'd have to be insane to not be joining us on Facebook It's fun Courtney What are your thoughts at the end of the day about this case It took a long, it was a long two weeks writing it all

But I feel like it opened my eyes to a lot I didn't know So overall, really interesting case. 100% because I didn't know a lot about the son of Sam conspiracy or whatever you want to call this. It's not even really a conspiracy. The facts are there. That's the whole thing.

It's a factual-based episode that we just presented you guys with. And I want to shout out Courtney for writing this episode. It's our longest to date. She does such an amazing job, Courtney. Thanks, babe. And to everybody online, we love you so much. Keep asking that same old. question. The dead don't talk.

Or do they? See you next week, everybody, for the most disturbing episode of our show to date.