Murder In America - EP. 98 CALIFORNIA - Heaven’s Gate Cult: The Largest Mass Suicide on American Soil

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

On March 26th, 1997, the largest suicide mass on US soil was unearthed in a prestigious neighborhood of San Diego, called Rancho Santa Fe, California. To the outside, it appeared to be a mass suicide, a horrible and unfortunate event. But to the 39 people inside, it was a commencement – a graduation that their leader, Marshall Herff Applewhite, had been preaching to them for years. This is the story of The Heaven’s Gate Cult and you are listening to Murder in America.  - This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/MIA and use our custom code MIA for 10% off your first month of easy online therapy - Show yourself some love this month and get 50% off your first Care/of order by going to takecareof.com and using code STATE50 Stay Connected:  Join the Murder in America fam in our free Facebook Community for a behind-the-scenes look, more insights and current events in the true crime world: https://www.facebook.com/groups/4365229996855701 If you want even more Murder in America bonus content, including ad-free episodes, come join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderinamerica Instagram: http://instagram.com/murderinamerica/ Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/people/Murder-in-America-Podcast/100086268848682/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/MurderInAmerica TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theparanormalfiles and https://www.tiktok.com/@courtneybrowen Feeling spooky? Follow Colin as he travels state to state (and even country to country!) investigating claims of extreme paranormal activity and visiting famous haunted locations on The Paranormal Files Official Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheParanormalFilesOfficialChannel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Life is a journey. I know this. I think we all know this. Some days feel good and other days feel absolutely overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy sometimes to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, nobody has all the answers. And no journey should be taken alone.

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I've personally used BetterHelp in the past, and I think that if you're on the edge, if you're thinking maybe it's time to start therapy, I say just go ahead and do it. There's literally no downside because you don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash MIA. That's BetterHELP.com slash MIA. The following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories

by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects. Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children. This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned. It's March 26, 1997, in a prestigious neighborhood of San Diego. called Rancho Santa Fe, California. In this neighborhood, on 18341, Kalina Norte,

is a 9,000 square foot mansion, the address of the alleged mass suicide. Sheriff's deputy Robert Brunk responded to the call nearly two hours after it was placed. To be honest, almost everyone thought it was a prank. Mass suicides just aren't very common here in America. When he stepped onto the three-acre, lot, he noticed the mansion was quiet, no movement going on inside. So he approaches the front door

and enters the residence. Immediately as he stepped inside, he was hit with the overwhelming smell of decomposition, and he slowly looks around, making his way through the house. He couldn't help but notice that the place was immaculate. There was no trash, no mess, everything was neatly in its place. Up in front of him was a room, and when he opened the door, he would be met with a sight that no one in America had ever seen before. Lying in little bunk beds around the room were several bodies. They were lying on their backs with their arms beside them, wearing all black. They all had identical Nike tennis shoes on, and a purple shroud draped over their bodies. In that first room, Sheriff Robert Brunk counted four bodies.

In another room, there were six more. Knowing this was far more than what he could handle, he decided to call for backup. He only located 10 of the bodies, but in total, scattered throughout the mansion, were 39, all in the exact same position, all wearing identical uniforms. And all of them belonged to a cold, named Heaven's Gate.

Soon enough, the entire world would know their name. As words spread, it appeared to be a mass suicide, a horrible and unfortunate event. But to the 39 people inside, it was a commencement, a graduation, if you will. You see, the members of Heaven's Gate decided to leave their earthly bodies so that an alien spacecraft would come down and take them up in the world. to heaven. At least that's what their leader, Marshall Herf Applewhite, had been preaching to them for years. Now, obviously, this podcast is called murder in America. And a lot of people don't consider this mass suicide murder. But if someone has the ability, the power, to convince

dozens of people to end their lives, well, that's close enough to me. So this is the story of the Heaven's Gate Colt and the largest mass suicide on U.S. soil. I'm Courtney Browne. And I'm Colin Browne. And you're listening to Murder in America. Marshall Herf Applewhite Jr. was born on May 17, 1931, in the small West Texas town of Spurr. And his father, Marshall Herf Applewhite, Sr., was a successful Presbyterian preacher. From an early age, Marshall or Hurf, as most people called him, wanted to follow in his

father's footsteps. He too was very interested in religion and music, and he began his life on a straight and narrow path. There isn't a lot of information about his childhood or upbringing, but in 1952, Hurf attended a college in Austin pursuing a degree in philosophy. Many of his peers in college would describe him as an extrovert with an alluring personality. During this time in his life, he stayed busy by leading an Acapela music group and joining an association for future Presbyterian ministers. Upon graduating, he enrolled in a prime. private theological school called Virginia's Union Theological Seminary in Richmond, Virginia. And after two years of studying theology, he left to pursue a career in music.

But that didn't really seem to work out for him, either. Huff was young, trying to figure out what he wanted to do with his life. And it's at this point when he decided to join the Army. But after a while, he found that the Army wasn't really for him. And there's a lot of conflicting information out there about exactly what schools he went to and whatnot, because Hurf attended a lot of schools all over the United States. It's believed that after he got out of the army, he went to the University of Colorado, where he received his master's degree in music. Hirf was a talented vocalist, and he had this way of

drawing people in. Eventually, he would become a music professor at the University of Alabama. It was also around this time when he married and had two children. But there's barely any information out there about his family life. But we do know is that Hirf was gay. And during his time at the University of Alabama, rumors started spreading about him having a sexual relationship. with one of his male students. Both his wife and his Presbyterian father heard about these rumors, and as you can imagine, they weren't very happy about it. Shortly after his wife found out about his affair, she filed for divorce.

And from here on out, Herf had an estranged relationship with both her and his two children. And this was a really hard time in his life. He always wanted his father's approval and he felt like a failure. Here is Hrf years later talking about the relationship between Jesus and God, and he gets emotional, almost as if he's relating it back to his relationship with his father. I'm sure in Jesus' eyes, his relationship to his father was, goodness, when will I ever grow to be like my father? I'm so ignorant. I do think so poor. I can't get them right. And yet, his ability to be. recognize his father and want to be like his father and realize that he is nothing but a child.

Now after these rumors spread about him being gay, Huff wanted a fresh start, so he decided to pack up his life and move to Houston, Texas, where he continued to pursue a career in music. At the time, he had his eyes set on the Houston Opera. In 1972, there was an audition for the opera Susanna, and Hriff wanted the role of Olin Blitch, a preacher who seduces a woman named Susanna. He desperately wanted the part, so much so that during his rehearsal of the role,

he had to be checked into a mental hospital after experiencing psychosis. All of the stress in his life came crashing down all at once. But while he was at his worst, He came into contact with a woman that would change his life forever. It was a nurse at the hospital named Bonnie Lou Nettles. Bonnie was born in Houston, Texas on August 29, 1927. So she was a few years older than her, and when they met, she too was going through a rough time in her life.

She and her husband were separated, heading towards a divorce. And one thing to know about Bonnie Lou Nettles is that she was a very spiritual woman. She grew up Baptist, but as she got older, she became interested in astrology. Her daughter, Terry Nettles, said that she and her mother were very close, like best friends. And growing up, she always remembered her mom talking about psychics, crystals, and seances. Here she is later on in life, sharing her knowledge of the spiritual realm. After you have gone through the meditation, just try to hold that bright light in your body. It's supposed to heal your body.

Now Terry said that this spirituality is something that they really bonded over. In fact, she recalled many times in her life, she and her mom would go outside at night and look up at the stars. And Bonnie would say things like, Sometimes I don't feel like we belong on this planet. I wish an alien would just come down on a UFO and take me far, far away. One time when they went outside, they saw these lights moving around in all different directions.

And Bonnie was convinced that what they saw was not from Earth. She and her daughter then talked about what it would be like living on another planet, or how it would feel going up into space. Terry had fond memories of these moments with her mom, having these profound and unusual conversations. But she had no idea just how much these talks of space and UFOs would one day change her life for the worse. In 1972, like we mentioned,

Bonnie was working at a hospital in Houston when she crossed paths with Hrf Applewhite. He would later say that they met when he was visiting a friend, but that wasn't true. He was a patient there. And after just a few minutes with each other, the two said that they had a sole connection. Being the spiritual woman that Bonnie was, she even asked her if she could read his astrology chart.

He agreed, and as she read it, she told them that she believed they were soulmates and that they were destined to embark on a huge spiritual journey together. While I was visiting a sick friend in a hospital where T was a nurse. Tea had more experience and was older than me. I could see T's control was better than mine. Now, Herf was at one of the lowest points in his life, and he believed her. And it was this moment that sparked something inside of him. They, together, decided that they were going to change the world.

From here, Bonnie and Herf spent all their time together. They were dating, but like we mentioned, Herf wasn't really into women, and he and Bonnie didn't have a sexual relationship. Their relationship went much deeper than that. Terry, Bonnie's daughter, would later say that once Hurf came into the picture, things were a lot different at home. Bonnie officially divorced her husband, Hirf moved in, and after a while she sat Terry down and told her that she and Hrf were leaving. They had a mission that they were destined to carry out.

And once that mission was completed, she promised Terry that she would come back. But obviously, that would never happen. We were going through an awakening period. it's common for the person who is awakening for his life to begin to fall apart or her life to begin to fall apart. From here, Hurf and Bonnie left Houston

and started traveling west. They didn't know where they were going or even what they were really doing for that matter. All they really knew is that they were destined for something big and they were going to figure it out along the way. As the two traveled across the country, they usually stayed in churches, and they found odd jobs in the city to make ends meet. Then, when they were ready to leave, they would pack up and move on to the next city.

It definitely wasn't easy. They struggled with money, car problems, finding places to sleep. It was a very unstable time in their lives, but they didn't care. All that mattered was finding their life's mission. Bonnie's daughter Terry remembered receiving a postcard from them in Vegas. Attached was a picture of her mom with all of her hair cut off that read, quote, Herf cut my hair. How do you like it? Love you, Mom. Now after a year of traveling in July of 1973,

Perf and Bonnie ended up on the coast of Oregon. They spent a lot of time tapping into their spirituality and reading the Bible. One scripture that really stuck out to them was Revelations chapter 11, 1st 3 through 12. In this scripture, it talks about two witnesses that will prophesy to the world and eventually they will be killed, essentially martyrs for the kingdom of God. But three days after these two witnesses are murdered, the Bible says that they will rise from the dead and ascend up. up into heaven and a cloud. Now, Bonnie and Herf were an organ when they read this scripture, and it changed their lives. They knew without a shadow of a doubt that they were those two

witnesses. And from here, they now knew the purpose of their mission. They were going to prophesy this message, and when their time comes, not only will they ascend up into heaven, but so will their followers. After this life-changing realization, Bonnie and Herf started calling themselves the two, and they even completely dropped their birth names. Herf started going by Doe, and Bonnie started going by T. And these names were in reference to Bonnie's favorite movie, The Sound of Music, as in Dore me for solacea, and Doe.

They also went by Bo and Peep because they believed their followers were like their sheep, but most of the time they were tea and dough. So for the remainder of this episode, that's what we'll refer to them as. Again, tea is Bonnie and Doe is Herf. In 1975, there were two individuals who came public, held some meetings around the country, and said that they were from the kingdom of heaven. And those two individuals were tea and dough. Now, to understand this story, it's important to know what was going on in America at the time.

In the 1970s, there was this collective thought within Christianity that the end times were near. And usually in history when people have these ideas, it's because there's a lot of chaos going on in the world. Whether it be natural disasters, wars, depressions, these things sort of bring out conversations of Armageddon. And in the 1970s, a lot of people weren't even planning for the future because they were, fully convinced that the world would be ending soon. Another topic of conversation going around in the 1970s was of UFOs and aliens. Across the world, there had been a number of unexplained sightings of things in the sky that defied all logic and physics. In the 1960s, a man in Rhode Island captured a picture of what looks like a flying saucer. There were other sightings and pictures of these

UFOs in Massachusetts, Connecticut, Kansas, all over. And across America, people were fascinated with the fact that aliens could be flying over us, looking down on Earth. The 1970s were also a time of hippies, spirituality, and open-mindedness. And there were a lot of people looking for answers. Now, stick with me for a second because it can get a little confusing, but like we mentioned, mentioned earlier, both tea and dough were raised in different denominations of Christianity, and they were also very into astrology. So when they came to the realization that they were God's two witnesses, they just knew within their hearts that one day, when the time came,

a UFO was going to come down to Earth and physically take them and their followers up into heaven. and I want to make sure to point out that we are in no way talking poorly about anyone's religion. We're just laying out the facts. But if you had to compare their beliefs to a religion, it's mostly like Christianity. In the Bible, they talk about two witnesses going up into a cloud. But T and Doe figured that back then in biblical times, those people wouldn't have been able to understand the concept of aliens. So they just called it a cloud when really it was a flying saucer.

This spacecraft is not an etheric craft. This craft is a real, contains physical elements, contains physical individuals. They even created their own little language of it all. They called heaven the next level, and the process of being taken up into heaven by the flying saucer was called the demonstration. It was their sales pitch. After they crafted this idea, they started planning their meetings where they'd go around the United States prophesizing this message. One of their first meetings was in Waldport, Oregon in the summer of 1975. In the weeks before, T. and Doe and a few of their early followers hung up flyers all over the city that read,

UFOs. Why are they here? Who have they come for? When will they leave? Not a discussion of UFO sightings or phenomena. Two individuals say that they are about to leave the human level and literally, physically, enter the next evolutionary level in a spacecraft. Followers of the two will discuss how the transition from the human level to the next level is accomplished, and when this may be done, this is not a religious or philosophical organization recruiting membership. However, the information has already prompted a number of people. of individuals to devote their total energy to the transitional process.

If you have ever entertained the idea that there may be a real physical level in space, beyond the Earth's confines, you will want to attend this meeting. Sunday, September 14th, 1975, 2 o'clock p.m. at the Bayshore Inn in Waldport, Oregon. Two people that saw this poster and decided to attend the meeting were Sawyer and Frank, who will discuss frequently throughout this story. Sawyer was 24 years old at the time. He had come across the poster when he was walking around Oregon, and he decided to go and listen to what they had to say. He'd been really into LSD at the time, and because of this, he was

on a spiritual journey, and tea and dough happened to come into his life at the perfect moment. As for Frank and his girlfriend, Erica, they were visiting Frank's cousin in the city and came across the poster. They all had questions about the afterlife, so they too decided to give it a chance. And believe it or not, there were about 200 people that attended this first meeting. It was a full house. At around 2 o'clock, when the meeting commenced, both T and Doe came out on stage. And for a few minutes, they didn't say a word. They just stared at the crowd, taking everything in.

This was the very start of their entire life's mission. And then they told the crowd their message. Once you overcome this planet, you were airborne. You were free. And we will show you how to make it to the way it's key. When a human has overcome all of his human level activities, that chemical change takes place. And he goes through a metamorphosis just exactly as a caterpillar does

when he quit speaking a caterpillar. And he goes off into a crystals and he becomes a butterfly. T and Doe told the crowd that they were going to show them the way, teach them how to get to the next level. and that if they just followed in their footsteps, then one day their bodies would be taken in a UFO up into heaven. One woman in the crowd was Leslie Light, who at the time was kind of lost, trying to find her purpose.

She said that at the meeting, she was particularly fascinated with Doe. The mind that you had as a human is aborted, and the soul that was given to you is filled. with next level information, next level mind, and a new creature is born. Leslie said he was charming, convincing, and he had a way of mesmerizing the crowd with his words. Frank would later say that during the meeting, he felt an overwhelming sense of euphoria. When Doe was speaking to the crowd, Frank almost felt like he was in the presence, of Jesus. And not only did T. and Doe tell the crowd about their message, but they also encouraged

everyone to leave all of their earthly possessions behind, pack up their camping gear, and join them as they go to a campsite at Boulder Canyon. And they must have been pretty convincing, because after this meeting, 24 people would join the cult. Over the next few weeks, many of these people left their entire lives behind to go to the campgrounds, while their family members were left confused and worried. Soon enough, word would spread about the cult who promised their members they would be taken up into heaven by a UFO. A score of persons from a small Oregon town have disappeared.

It's a mystery, whether they've been taken on a so-called trip to eternity or simply been taken. Terry Drinkwater takes a look at that story. Here along the cloud-covered coast near Newport, Oregon, a mysterious couple appeared three weeks ago. Circulating a flyer, proclaiming a UFO would soon be ready to take whomever would follow them to another life, another world. These are the two. The two who promised to take their followers literally out of this world in a spaceship. They held meetings, one at this motel to recruit voyagers.

Francine first attended but was unconvinced. Those people who choose to go along will be picked up by a UFO and they will be leaving this earth forever. Why didn't you decide to go? I'm too human. What they wanted you to do was to make the choice to go and then leave your possessions, leave everything that was connected to your humanness and to go with them to begin to repair. People have disappeared, yes. We have roughly 15 to 20 people that are no longer in the area. 20 people from around Oregon decided to pack up their things and join the group at the Boulder Canyon.

And most of the people who decided to go were very open-minded. Some were hippies, others were just lost trying to find their purpose. And a lot of them wanted to find a spiritual connection that they had never felt in organized religion. Once the people showed up at the camp, tea and dough split everyone up into groups. And for the next few weeks, they taught everyone about a process you need to be. needed to go through in order to get to the next level. They called it human individual metamorphosis. It's a process you have to go through yourself. No one can magically get you there.

But interestingly enough, they didn't really give specific instructions on what to do. People were coming from all over thinking that they were going to be taught all the ways to become a member. But it was sort of vague. Frank would later say that it was kind of like the blind leading the blind. Is there some special place that you have people go and learn about it? How to do this? Camps or something like that? You mean here on this planet?

There was something about going to Colorado. We have no training camp. They did have a bit of a routine, though. Every single morning and every evening, they would have a meeting where they would all tune into the next level. And the way that they would do that is by using these tuning forks that would make sounds like this. The group was instructed to use note A, then place the fork on top of their head and really focus in on the sound so you could tap into the next level.

Sometimes the members would even claim that they were getting messages from the next level, that the UFO was about to come down and get them. When this happened, everyone would go sit out in the desert by a fire, and they would take turns looking up in the sky for the UFO. But obviously, it never came. Now, the group obviously wasn't making any money, so they were strictly funded by donations. the members would go door to door around different cities asking churches for money. And surprisingly, they were actually able to live off of these donations for a while. The things that we need to literally live on this human planet until we get off are provided by situations that come up. Help will come in the strangest ways.

And once they got enough, they would then go to other cities across America and hold recruitment meetings in hopes of getting more members. This went on for years. and slowly but surely their cults started to grow. And believe it or not, after a while, it wasn't even T. and Doe leading the meetings. It was the members themselves. They would tell the crowd about how their life completely changed once they joined the group.

One of the earliest members was a man named Dick Jocelyn. Here he is, given his testimony, in one of these meetings. A matter of some months ago, those of us who were up here were sitting in a meeting similar to this, where you are, and listening to two individuals, a man and a woman, share some information with us. It's important to understand that you cannot die and achieve the level we're talking about. You cannot die and get to heaven.

This level that we're speaking of is obtained only while you're alive and physically healthy in a way that you've never been alive before. We're not here to convince you of anything, but we know that there are a lot of people, at least some people, who are waiting for this information, and they will recognize it when they hear it. Do you regret at all?

GIFI not quite you hate to give it. No regrets. It's been such an accelerated growth experience that no matter what happens, I could never regret taking this move. It's difficult for our friends and our relatives who really do love us to understand that it's us who really want to do this. And they might think that it's better for us not to do this endeavor. And I feel like this is a good time to bring up the fact that a lot of people are very judgmental towards cult members.

And they say things like, those people are so dumb and naive. I would never let someone brainwash me like that. which I can understand why you would think that believing a UFO is going to come down and take you up into heaven is a hard concept to grasp but throughout studies of cult members oftentimes these people are pretty intelligent many of them are even educated and come from good families

the main characteristics seen in these cult members are that they're usually very open-minded and they're looking for answers in the world. Then a cult leader comes around and promises them everything they've been looking for. Colt leaders specifically go after people like this because they're easy targets. And they want their members to be intelligent

so that in return, they can go out and recruit other members. And that's exactly what was happening here. These members were going all around the country talking about these incredible changes happening in their life. And the people listening believed them and wanted to know more. We're now in the process overcoming the world and converting all of our energies to becoming next-level individuals.

Now one of the most important things that Tien Doe stressed to their members was that in order to truly tap into the next level, you had to leave all of your worldly possessions and desires behind. There was a short period of time when in isolation, we went through an extreme awakening period. This is unimportant information. The only thing it's important is can you shed humanness and then hang on to your head?

Because from that point until the time you leave, will be one major growth after another that will change you from a human into a member of that next step. These worldly possessions included your belongings, your sense of identity, even your family. The kingdom of heaven can't be entered as long as I still have attachments and addictions to the human kingdom, whether it be people, things, careers. And around this time, there are about 100 members in the group, which is pretty big. But as the group starts to grow, more and more people around America are growing very concerned. Their loved ones were attending these meetings, and then they would just up and leave, cutting off all contact.

It was a pretty strict rule that you were not. not allowed to talk to your friends and family members who are not in the group. Now, the part that hurts for you is the fact that all the ones that you considered your family really is not your family. Your family, don't forget, are those who are here doing the same thing as you and those other members of the next level? They are your family. And I just want to take a moment to say, if anyone, whether it be a cold,

a church, a boyfriend, a friend, if anyone is ever trying to cut you off from your loved ones, that is a major red flag. It's a tactic people use to make it to where you are completely dependent on them, which is exactly what was happening here. T and Doe knew that if their members were going home and telling their family about everything, they would most likely talk some sense into them and convince them not to go back. parents were losing their children to the cold. And even more heartbreaking,

children were sometimes losing both of their parents. I did have to decide what to do with my job. I was in a job that I was very satisfied with. But I think the biggest thing was working with my children and talking to them. I do have twin girls who are 13. They will go with their father. If an individual finds themselves, with children, and they know that it is time for them to move up into the kingdom of God,

they must weigh where their responsibility is to their heavenly father or to those children. A woman named Kelly Cook was about 10 years old when her parents, Suzanne and Wayne Cook, attended a meeting near San Francisco in 1975. Well, I attended a meeting at La Caniard College. which is north of San Francisco in late August of 1975, and recognized at that time that it was the truth that it was what I've been looking for. Kelly would later say that her parents were very smart people, always learning, but more importantly, always questioning things.

They weren't easily influenced. But one day, after they found out about Heaven's Gate, her parents sat her down and told her that they were leaving to join a cult that was going to take them up into heaven with a UFO. And they told her that it was going to happen within the next couple of months, so they wouldn't be around much longer. Kelly said that when they told her this, she was shocked. Even as a 10-year-old, she knew that what they were saying was ridiculous, and she begged them not to go, but they had already made up their minds. Shortly afterwards, Suzanne and Wayne dropped Kelly off at her grandparents' house, and they left, completely cutting off all contact with their own 10-year-old daughter.

It's easier for those who are left in the world to go ahead and move on with their lives. So in the way, I think that's been the pattern for most of us to let that the past go, you know, the people that have been our past to go on with their lives. Now, by this point, not a lot of people around the U.S. Heaven's Gate, but that would all change very soon. You see, two men named Robert Block, who was a sociologist, and his friend David Taylor, who was a journalist, they actually snuck into the group undercover. When they heard about the UFO cult, they were fascinated and they wanted to learn all

about it. In what better way than to become a member? spending months learning all the ends and outs of the cult, the men got together and wrote up a piece called Salvation in a UFO. In it, they wrote all about who the cult was, its leaders, the meetings, and what they did every day. The piece ended up getting published as the cover story and psychology today. And for the first time, the world got to learn all about Heaven's Gate. And as you can imagine, they weren't taken very seriously. In fact, they quickly became the laughingstock of the country.

No one knows how many others are following the couple, known up to now, only as he and she or the two. Well, that mystery at least appears to be solved. Nobody knows if they are earthly hoaxers or pied pipers from outer space, but apparently some people believe their story. news headlines across America called the cold to big hoax, dingalings, con artists, brainwashers, frauds, disillusioned, evil. They even compared them to Charles Manson. And this negative press that they received absolutely crushed them. Unfortunately, very little of the human element across the globe is even interested in this information. you would not believe what we go through

to even try to get it to people and the harassment that we go through how difficult it is to find anyone who even cares to hear. T and Doe were devastated, but more than anything, they were scared. They feared that all of this negative media would cause them to lose members. And they were right.

Not long after, People stopped attending meetings, and they went from about 100 members to about 50. The fact that T and I expressed that caused us to retreat and take our little classroom and go hide with them is because the last thing we could stand was to have people say, blasphily. You say you're from the kingdom of God. Who do you think you are? Jesus? Who do you think you are?

God? because they didn't understand. So our hope and our prayer for your sake is you will start warding off all the bombardment that you will begin to hear that say, boy, is this guy crazy? Is this a cult if I ever heard one? Yes, it is.

It's a cult. I mean, it's the cult of cults. It's the cult of truth. Now, obviously, this was very upsetting to them. But in their minds, all the people that stayed were their true followers. At one of the meetings, Tee even told the group, quote, The Harvest is closed and you made the first cut. The numbers started dwindling.

Cut about 50% to somewhere in the 40s or 50s. And then we started really getting down to the nitty-gritty. And you would think that after all this scrutiny, from the media, they would tone things down a bit, but they actually did the complete opposite. The meetings started getting more intense, and the members were now required to follow more rules. The point that I want to stress mostly is that you all are in a classroom 24 hours a day. Everything that happens to you is to see how you can respond as a member of the next level, not as a human. Every tiny thing you do alone or with someone else.

does the test. In other words, you are striving to be perfect. There are no teachers in the next level. We're your teachers now. Now what's interesting is that when a lot of people think of Heaven's Gate, they think of Doe. But in the beginning stages, T sort of ran the show. And together, she and Doe came up with a list of 17 rules their members were to follow. We're not going to read you everyone because it's an entire page worth of rules, but here are a few of them.

Can you follow instructions without adding your own interpretation? Can you deliver instructions as you receive them, or do they change according to your computer? Do you use more of something than adequate? For example, excessively high cooking flame, more toothpaste than necessary, etc. Are you gentle, simple, cautious, and thoughtfully restrained in your steps and all other physical actions or words? They also listed major offenses, which included deceit. examples of this are doing an act on the sly lying to my teachers or any of my classmates keeping an offense to myself not exposing it the same day sensuality permitting arousal in thought

or in action not nipping it in the butt three breaking any instruction or procedure knowingly and to make sure you were following all these rules they assigned each member with a check partner who would hold you accountable. Now, like we mentioned above, having sex was considered a major offense, so husbands and wives that were in the group couldn't have sex anymore. But strangely enough, most of them were willing to give it up. And what's interesting about this is that a lot of people join the group because they had a lot of freedom in the beginning.

It was mostly all about finding something within yourself and this very personal journey. But as more people left the group, tea and dough. wanted more control. So they started adding these strict rules. And because of this, a lot of people left, but in their eyes, they were just picking off the weaklings. Do you feel that you have made the progress

that you wanted to make? Have you met the expectations? Well, the thing is, our expectations are constantly growing. It's like, I know I've changed some, but I haven't become nearly what I want to become. I don't think people know how deep their humanness goes and what it involves trying to overcome it. It gets down to the nitty-gritty of your ways of looking at things

and your ways of responding and things that have been ingrained in you for years and years in this particular body that you have, and there are a lot of things that have been feeling. but nothing I could describe. In 1977 is where it all started to get really colty. The members were pretty much nuns and monks. They weren't having sex, and their entire lives revolved around living a life

that would get them to the next level. Now, one thing to know about Colts is that part of their MO is to get their members to completely get rid of the old you. Everything you knew, the way you operated, the way you view the world. All of it needs to be forgotten. Then they break you down so that your new way of thinking aligns with them and their roles.

And T and Doe took this to a whole new level. In fact, they started telling their members that they weren't even human. In reality, all of them were just aliens from the next level, trapped in a human body. and they called the human body their vehicles. We'll use the term vehicle when we speak of this body that we're wearing, this flesh and bones, because we don't relate to it. It's not me. It's just a suit of clothes that I wear.

When you're in the process of overcoming this vehicle, it loses its identity. It loses the consciousness of who it was. And tea and dough even created their own language. For instance, they called heaven the next level. They called the body a vehicle. Genitals were called plumbing. Sex was sensuality. A house is a craft. Kitchen was a nutry lab. Bedroom, a rest chamber. The mind, a computer. You see, they wanted to completely rewire everyone's thinking. And another huge part of the cult was losing their sense of identity, which meant everyone also had to change their names. And the way they did this is very strange and confusing, but they gave everyone three

letters for their first name, and their last name was O-D-E-D-Y, so, for example, if your name was Glenn, your new name would be Glenote, spelled G-L-N-O-D-Y, the first one. The first one, you name was Glenn. The first name was always one syllable and everything was capitalized. And getting your name changed was a big deal. It sort of represented an adoption. One of the things that helps you, and this is, this was kind of adopted in a way in the Catholic Church, when nuns and monks that isolate themselves in thoughtful studying conditions, they take another name.

it helps disassociate them with the family tree Hi Dave Odie There's Alodi Alex Noddy There's Murno Odie Stam Odie

Dave Nodie Noddy Dest Odie June Odie Gold Nodys We call him tall Lodi Because he's a little taller than Ligoti

It was also around this time When they started wearing Unisex uniforms Which were slacks sneakers and long-sleeved Shirts that were buttoned all the way up And they did this because A part of losing your identity

is also losing your gender. Being a man or woman wasn't important, and it wouldn't matter when you got to the next level, so it shouldn't matter here on earth. Since we're moving into a world that is gender-less, we are doing everything that we can do to not identify with gender. They also didn't want anyone to focus on their outward appearance,

so all of the women had to cut their hair really short, and they weren't allowed to wear makeup, and for men, they all had to cut their beards. So I fell it the other day. I don't know if you all have seen this. boy, George, you can't tell whether he's a boy or a girl. Right, his image is androgyny. In a sense, it's good because this guy doesn't care what he looks like.

That doesn't mean we want all of you to go sloppy. Like, more George, okay? He isn't right, but at least he isn't trying to dress in a sensuous way. Yeah, the hair and makeup thing would be the last straw for me. I definitely couldn't do that, but the members didn't care. In fact, they liked it. Here is Margaret Richter, or Melody, talking about this transition. One thing you have to consider what we as individuals wanted to become.

I think everyone in this class wanted something more than the human world had to offer. They were seeking some type of goodness, some type of rightness that they did not feel in this world. I'm seeing people actually develop into what I always wanted to believe they could develop into. And it's like I want to go out and put headlines on all the newspapers saying, it's possible to overcome the humanists because I'm seeing it happen. It's not that I enjoy being the instrument of giving out these procedures, but these students love it. They've seen the value.

It does not restrict them. It frees them. But you have to have been there to know what we're talking about. Otherwise, you can easily doubt it. And going through all this wasn't easy. It required a lot of discipline, and the members really found comfort in each other having to go through it together.

It made everyone really close. Here's Gordon Welch, or Stramode, talking about how Heaven's Gate and its members changed his life. It's so hard not to get so dumb when you talk about this. But I met the people that are here. I met my teachers Tando, and I knew that I knew all of them, and that they were my family. and I've been happy ever since.

I mean, it's been tough. Anybody who's been on this, like she said, you get hit with everything to get insane, trying to turn your way, but it's been wonderful. Now, it's great that they all found comfort in each other and that they really do sound happy with their new family. But what about their old families? By this point, some of them hadn't contacted their loved ones in years. Their families didn't even know if they were alive

because they had no way of checking in on them, which left dozens of people around the U.S. And in making the decision that we made to do this, we know that we broke hearts, we know that we hurt people, and we don't take that lightly. We didn't want to hurt anyone. Unfortunately, it's the individuals that these vehicles cared for the most that are actually the greatest threat to us. Reports were even sent to the FBI, but nothing could be done because technically they didn't do anything wrong. They were all adults who could make their own decisions.

And to make these families even more anxious in the year 1979, huge news broke across the world. The Jonestown Massacre, where hundreds of people killed themselves in their cult in Guyana. Many of the family members saw this, and they worried that one day that would be the fate of their loved one. And unfortunately, their fears were right. But after a while, these families actually started working together. There was a huge group of people who all lost a loved one to Heaven's Gate. One of these people was a woman named Nancy Brown.

Her 19-year-old son David had joined the group in 1975. and she hadn't heard from him in years, so she decided to do something about it. Nancy hired a private investigator to keep tabs on the group, and she started a newsletter called The Family Network that would get sent out to all of the families who had lost a loved one in Heaven's Gate. And it was really just a way that people could keep track of them.

When she learned about where the group was camping, she would send out the newsletter. And some of the families would then go out to the camp and try to get their loved one back. And when this started happening, T and Doe got very anxious. To them, their greatest threat was the member's loved ones. They had worked so hard to strip everyone of their identity.

The last thing they needed was people coming around, calling them by their birth names, and trying to convince them to come home. Getting back to the news, I don't even know what all the fuss is about. A lot has been made out of nothing, really, because it isn't unusual before our sons and daughters to leave home. and do what they want to do. But all of your families are not with the network.

Let's don't add any to it. Don't any of you who aren't with them, tell them about it. And because of this, T and Doe made sure to never stay in one place too long. They were constantly moving from campground to campground, trying to avoid these family members. Then in 1978, one of the members inherited around $500,000. and they used the money to rent out these huge houses in upper-class suburban neighborhoods. They preferred spacious homes in quiet areas.

Not wanting to draw attention to themselves, they designated a number of people that were allowed to go outside, but everyone else had to stay inside so the neighbors wouldn't know, and also to avoid family members who were looking for them. So this meant that none of their neighbors even knew that a cult was being run right in the center of their family-friendly neighborhood. We live very non-bital lines without. We don't preach in me.

We can do what we want to. And don't think we have this hide by us so well if our security seems threatened. And it's here where we start to see some cracks in the foundation of Heaven's Gate. T, one of the leaders, was sick, very sick. And after a couple of doctors' visits, they found she had cancer in a right eye. She eventually had to have it removed. But according to the members, they never spoke about her illness. And neither did tea.

It was kind of this unspoken thing that everyone avoided. But they couldn't avoid it forever. After T's eye was removed, she went back to the doctor and found that the cancer had spread, and that she only had a few weeks left to live. And they were right. Not long after this, T died on June 19, 19, 18, 18. in Dallas, Texas. And as you can imagine, everyone was absolutely devastated,

and also a little confused. For nearly 10 years now, both she and Doe had been telling everyone that they were all going to go up in the UFO together while they were still alive. T wasn't supposed to die before the mission. So it felt like a huge loss, especially for Doe.

Now, sadly, T's daughter Terry didn't even know that her mom had died for nearly a year after her passing. Apparently, T told Doe not to tell her. But eventually, he did. Terry would later say that she tried to call Doe over and over again to figure out what happened, but he never picked up the phone. Then one day, she received a cassette tape from him in the mail. Terry, this is Doe. I'm a bit embarrassed and awkward about the fact that I didn't contact you when T left her vehicle or died or however you want to look at it.

I was so torn between trying to comply with her wishes. I guess in honesty I was so awkward that I might have been chicken and not just take it. taking it into my hands and talking to you. This task and her mission for the kingdom of heaven was everything to her. She felt that this was the only consistent way to even end her part of the task. I think if you'll think about that, you can understand it

and certainly don't grieve in thinking that she didn't want you to know because of lack of love for you or anything, because that certainly wasn't true. I'm going to pray for your release from this suffering. The suffering has been very great for me. And I want you to know that I love you and I wish I could do more for you. Terry hadn't seen her mother in nearly 10 years. She didn't even know she was sick.

and then she found out that she died just a few hours away from where she was living. And this devastated her, knowing that she was so close and she never got to say goodbye. They never even had a funeral, so Terry never got the closure she deserved. As for Doe, he went through a terrible heartbreak after T's passing. He even questioned whether or not he should keep the group going. But at the end of the day, he had to push forward. After all, it was his life's mission, and it's what Tee would have wanted. I feared being left with the responsibility of the mission with my partner being gone.

But I can remember in the first few weeks that I met T, the T said, why do I feel that this is something that I'm to give to you? And then I'm to go back. and I didn't know what she was talking about. But I know now. And believe it or not, after T died, Doe actually loosened up the rules a bit. He even allowed people to go visit their families. Nancy Brown, the leader of the family network and newsletter,

got to see her son David for the first time in nearly 10 years. A lot of parents said it was the strangest thing. When their loved one came home, it was like they were an entirely different person. They were dressed nice, very helpful, and more respectful than they had. ever been. And then, after spending a week or two with their families, they left and went back. And just to show you how powerful this cult really was, out of all of the people who left to go visit their families, all of them came back, except for one person. It was almost like a test.

Doe now knew without a shadow of a doubt that he had full control over these people. Then from here on out, Heaven's Gate would take a turn for the worst. Now that everyone was given time to mourn T's death and visit their families, It was now time to get back in the groove of things. And Doe sort of had to come up with an entirely new message. You see, T's death sort of disproved everything the members had been taught for the past 10 years. According to the old message, they were all supposed to go to the next level together while they were all alive. T-dying of cancer wasn't a part of the plan.

I think that T left when she did because it was my time to assume the responsibility that is more difficult for me, but I hope that I can rise to the occasion for whatever time there is left for this task. And a lot of people were wondering, well, what happened to T? If she was truly one of the two witnesses, then why didn't she turn into an individual? alien and go up into heaven by a UFO. And Doe had a simple explanation. He told his members that it may have looked like T died of cancer, but in reality, her faith was so strong that the next level consumed her body and caused her to die. That was a very tough one for me. Because Tee and I thought that we just knew it seemed that we would both be here for the full duration of the task,

and it didn't occur to us that one might leave prior to the other one leaving. Like many religions, they were trying to find purpose in something that didn't make sense. You know, in Christianity, Jesus was the savior of the world, and he wasn't supposed to die either, but he did. and his death ended up being all for the greater good. And this is the mindset of the members of Heaven's Gate. In their eyes, T's death was kind of like Jesus's death. Doe even started telling everyone that any one of them could die at any time.

The vehicle broke down and humans would say, well, the vehicle died. And so how can you say she left her vehicle? It tested me. It tested the class and we're all 10 feet taller because of it. Tees' thinking was, if that's what you have in mind for me, and if that's what you have in mind for Doe and for the class, then that's what we want. So now that death was a possibility, Doe had to change up the message.

Now he's saying that it's not your body that will be taken to the next level. When the time comes, they will all leave their bodies on earth, and the UFO will come down and take their spirits up into heaven. And he started telling his members that T. T was their guiding force to the next level. What it meant to me, even though it still breaks my heart, to recall the experience,

it very swiftly and very solidly put me on firmer ground in relationship to my Heavenly Father. It put me in a better relationship. in a better relationship with tea than I had before she left her vehicle. I know that tea is still to this day my primary, if not my total link with our Heavenly Father. Now, the next 10 years would be known as the Second Harvest, and Doe would continue to preach this new message to as many people as he could.

The group had definitely gone down in numbers, but he still had very loyal members. Sawyer and Frank, who we mentioned at the beginning of the episode, had now been members for nearly 20 years. But things were a lot different now than when they first joined. Doe was a lot more controlling. He even started referring to himself as the second coming of Jesus Christ, and that tea was God himself. He is my older member.

He is my heavenly father. Then one day, Doe brought everyone in for a meeting and said, I want to play a game, a little test. If you add $100, what would you buy? Everyone looked around in confusion. They have been taught for decades to leave all earthly possessions behind. You become a candidate. For our father's kingdom, our father then says, I'm a jealous God.

For a period of time, you might have thought you loved me more than you loved those other things. But if you're going to get into my house, you have to love only me. And it was here where Doe decided that all of the members were going to get a $100 gold ring that would represent their faith. Once the rings were bought, he had all the members participate in a ceremony. where they basically married him. Each of them would come up to the altar and one by one he would put the ring on their finger and kiss them on the forehead.

And they said that the entire time Doe was sobbing uncontrollably. To him, this ceremony really represented that the group was now completely committed to Heaven's Gate. And from now, until the downfall of the cult, everyone would wear their rings with pride as a symbol of their commitment. According to ex-members, this is where they started to see Doe become more controlling than ever.

The group wasn't allowed to watch much TV anymore, and the TV they were able to watch had to be approved by him. One of the only things they were allowed to watch was Star Trek, which kind of aligned with the path they were on, that one day they would space travel. Doe also liked Star Trek because in the films there's this group of aliens called the Borg, and the Borg consists of all these different beings who all have a collective mind. They all work together and give themselves over to this higher power. A cock in the wheel is a very significant item when you're in our father's kingdom serving as a member of a crew.

Now, like we mentioned, Frank was one of the oldest members of the group. He had dedicated most of his life to Heaven's Gate, but it was around this time when he started questioning whether or not he wanted to stay. A lot of these doubts came about when Doe gathered everyone for a meeting. Frank said that in that meeting, he raised his hand to ask a question and because it was morning time, his voice was a lot deeper than normal. After he finished asking his question, Doe mocked him in front of everyone, and he even called him out in front of the entire group for trying to be overly masculine.

Frank was humiliated, and more than anything, he was angry. He had given 20 years of his life to this cult just to be disrespected for something he couldn't control. Frank would tell the HBO documentary on this case that even to this day, he still has problems speaking up in certain situations because of how he was treated that day. And not long after this, Frank ultimately decides to leave. Now, if you remember, he actually joined the cult in 1975 with his girlfriend, Erica. She was still very involved in the group. And a few days after he left, she called him, weeping, begging for him to come back.

But he had already made up his mind. Frank would later say that that was the last time he spoke to Erica. his girlfriend of 20 years, and she would end up being one of the members in the mass suicide a few years later. In an interesting part of Colts is that a lot of people stay not only because they're brainwashed,

but because that's their whole entire life. They really don't know anything different. In the beginning, they were taught to leave everything behind. Completely forget your individuality and listen to everything they say. And then when you do decide to leave, you kind of have to teach yourself how to be a normal person again. It's really sad. And even when you do leave the cult, your brain still reverts back to its old ways.

You know, if you practice something for 20 years, it's going to be hard for your brain to unlearn it. Luckily, Frank made it out alive. But he still struggles every day. He even has a little sign-up in his home that reads, quote, I am worthy, I am deserving, I am safe, I am free. Now, another thing that's interesting is that it's not like the cult members weren't aware that they were being brainwashed. They admitted, publicly, that they were. Here are two members named Chuck and Dana talking with a radio station about the cult.

I'm good master's this is radioactive talk on the talk of radio yes on this particular program which and even and they devote their lives while what's the number of other people on it to waking the rest of us up to some very important truths as they see it and one of the important truths is the end of civilization as we know is that correct get right up on the mic but we feel very strongly that this is the end times

that was prophesied by in the Bible And that is not in fact one of the messages and that you bring that this is part of our message, yes. Let me ask you this. How do you know you're not hypnotized? Or do you see you? Do I look hypnotized? Do I look brainwashed? Yeah.

But that again, so do I. No, I think you do. You have a particular look on your face of a person who is in a hypnotic trance. Well, when you mentioned being brainwashed, I think. think we've thought about that term over, you know, over some time. And we feel that in a lot of ways, we hope we are. Now, this next part is very disturbing, but it really just shows you the extremes that this group went through. As we mentioned earlier, they were completely forbidden to masturbate or have sex. I'm afraid that here I need to get a little personal.

sex is the strongest drug. There's not a drug, it's not a morphine or anything that is produced by chemicals or plants of this world as strong as that drug. It's something we have to go through the withdrawal of. We have to overcome. In addition to being celibate, they were also forbidden to have any sexual desires, which is, Kind of impossible. To make sure the men weren't masturbating, they even had a sign-out sheet

that they had to publicly sign if they ejaculated, which they called nocturnal omission. So anytime someone had a nocturnal omission, everyone knew about it, and lying about it was even worse. So all of the men had to sign it at one point or another. All of this led to sign.

to an incredible amount of guilt. Every time one of them had a nocturnal omission, they felt like a failure. They even felt guilt just having sexual thoughts in general, which is not something they could control. The members, however, weren't the only ones having sexual desires. We mentioned one of the members earlier in our story named Dick Jocelyn. He had been in the group since 1975,

and after T died, he sort of became Doe's right-hand man. Now, it's a known fact that Doe was gay, and Dick Jocelyn happened to be gay too. The two of them spent a lot of time together over the last 20 years, and at one point, Doe pulled Dick aside and told him that he couldn't be his helper anymore because my vehicle is attracted to your vehicle. Now, shortly after this, Doe got the group together, and he announced that he had had a nocturnal omission, and he was so upset about it that he wanted to be castrated. He even encouraged the other members to follow in his footsteps, and of course, many of them

were willing to do it. If your eye offend you, pluck it out. It's the same idea. If something is so offensive to you that your control is threatened by it and why shouldn't you dispose of it if you have that option to do it? Not that I have ever talked anyone into taking that out. The fact that he was able to convince a group of men to all castrate themselves made Doe feel more powerful than ever and he was really getting carried away.

Now, one of the most devoted men. members of the group was a man named Sorati. It was known that any time Doe asked the group to do anything, Sorati would drop everything he was doing and literally run to go do it. Sorodi's the clown of the class. Oh, no, I shouldn't say that. I'm teasing him as I always do. Never shy of energy.

We always have to tone him down. We keep saying down, Soroti. Because Soroti was such a devoted member, he really wanted to be castrated. In fact, some people say he was the one who actually suggested it in the first place. And the group happened to have a member named Lovodi, who was a nurse, that had worked for a doctor who performed castrations. So, they started planning to castrate all of the men. When Doe asked the group who wanted to go first, Sorodi volunteered.

So they sterilized a room, got all the tools. needed to perform the castration, and then, right then and there, they cut open his testicles and began the procedure. But keep in mind, Lovodi was a nurse. She didn't know how to perform an orchiectomy. So after a few snips, Sorodi's testicles nearly doubled in size, and he was in a great deal of pain. So much so, he started to moan and cry on the table. Something went wrong. Seeing all of this, Doe starts to panic. He knew that he had taken things too far, and he even told everyone, this isn't right. I should have never set this up. You need to take me to the police. And imagine how scary that must have been for the members.

I mean, you look up to this man as a god. And now he's telling you that he messed up so bad, he needs to go to jail? Obviously, the members refused to take him. And they started coming up with ideas on what to do next. Sorodi was obviously in a bad place after the botched castration. And they didn't want to take him to a hospital because the group could get in trouble. So instead, they called a priest and asked him for advice. Now, clearly the priest didn't know how to deal with that situation, so they were left with no other choice than to bring him to the hospital. Afterwards, the members who participated in the procedure drove to a nearby pier and tossed his testicles into the ocean. It's unclear exactly what they told the hospital about

what happened, but the group never got in trouble. So after this, Doe told everyone that they weren't going to do the castrations anymore, and believe it or not, the male members were pretty upset about it. They had all really wanted to go through with it, so much so that they eventually found a doctor that was willing to do the procedure for them, and about nine members got it done, including Dole. Now, not everyone was willing to follow through with it, understandably. In fact, after the castrations, a number of men left, including Wayne Cook, who we mentioned earlier in the story. He was the one who joined the cult with his wife, Suzanne, leaving behind their 10-year-old daughter. But shortly after the castrations, Wayne and Suzanne decided to leave. Their daughter, Kelly, would later say that

she was so excited when her parents came back home, but she also noticed that they were completely different than the parents she once knew. It was very hard for Wayne and Suzanne to come back into the real world. They had been isolated for so long that they really didn't fit in as easily as they would have hoped to. As it turns out, the couple had actually left the cult three different times, but they had always come back. And this happened to a lot of members. They would leave, an attempt to go back to the real world, but it was hard. I mean, even think about trying to get a job. The company would ask you where you'd been for the last 20 years, and what would you tell them? That you'd been in a cult? On top of that, the entire way they operated was completely different

from the outside world. The years and years of brainwashing made it nearly impossible for these people to leave. And every time a member would come back to the cult, they would always be welcomed with open arms. They were their family. But I will say the group did shrink a lot in the 1990s. At that point, they only had about 24 members. And because of this, they started trying really hard to recruit people around the United States. This little classroom dwindled to 50 and then dwindled down to a couple dozen. Now, at the end of the age, I'm afraid I feel, is right upon us. It's going to come.

I don't want it to sound like a prophet. But my gut says, and everything else that I know points to, that it's going to come before the turn of the century. Now, for some reason, a lot of religious people assumed that the world was going to end by the year 2000, not just the people from Heaven's Gate. And as far as our departure, we don't really know whether we're going to depart with that end or whether our departure will be before it or somewhere in between or anything like that. But knowing this, Doe and his members figured that they only had a few more years

to get as many members as they possibly could. they needed to get their message out fast. So they started a TV show called Beyond Human, where they proclaimed that the world was soon coming to an end, and that if you wanted to be saved, you needed to join them before it was too late. Planet Earth about to be recycled. Your only chance to survive or evolve.

evacuate is to leave with us. I hope for your sake that you at least ponder this, that you go into the privacy of your closet. Don't ask your neighbors, your friends, what they think of this. See if you can connect with the purest, highest source that you might consider God and say, what about this? Is this for real? Is this for me? If it is, then give me the strength. Because as soon as you tell anyone else, they will be used as the instruments to have you not believe, to have you stay in this world and wait for heaven on earth. We hope to be of some service to you in this short time before our departure. And I say it's a very short time before our departure. So our thoughts will be of you.

We hope that your thoughts will be of our father's kingdom. They also had an ad in USA Today that read UFO cult resurfaces with final offer. And they included a PO box just in case anyone wanted to interact with the group. The ad actually cost them $30,000, but in their minds it was worth it. None of that money was even going to matter once the world ended. Doe also started recording VHS tapes of his preaching, that he would send out to anyone that wanted to learn more about their group. And they actually got a number of members from this.

They even got old members who had left to rejoin. Once their numbers had gone back up, they were really motivated to continue these recruitment meetings around the country. And as they traveled around, they kept an eye out for people who were vulnerable. The best candidates were people who were at a low point in their life or someone who had recently experienced a great loss. Once the group would find these people, they would pull them in by offering them a community and eternal salvation. They also recruited a lot of people by instilling fear.

They would tell everyone that there was only a short amount of time. And if you don't come now, it'll be too late. One girl named Gail Mader joined the group in 1994 right after a really bad breakup. Here are her parents talking about her. She had just broken off with a boyfriend of four, five years, and the store wasn't going well. I think that was the trigger because a couple months later we got one of these recruitment flyers for this group talking about UFOs and all that. Then we knew we were in trouble. When she called home, I said, hi, Gail, what are you doing?

And she said, did you get my flyer? And we said, yes. And she said, well, that's what I'm doing? What do you think of it? Oh, when you're coming home? I don't know, probably never. Oh, no, Gary, you've got the car. So what kind of group are you with?

Well, kind of like moms. Oh, really? Yeah. Do you have an address or a phone number where I could get a hold of you if you need, babe? Well, keep in contact, baby, because I love you so much and I miss you awfully. Her parents assumed that she would come to terms one day and eventually leave. But sadly, she would be one of the people who died in the mass suicide a few years later. During these meetings, the group did gain some followers, but the majority of the time,

they were laughed at and rejected. There must be some thing, some experience, some knowledge, some truth, something that has given you to know what you say you know, and I'm only asking you what is it. What makes you different besides the fact that you recognize truth? Any question? Why is this all so big? I don't know anything more now.

who you are or who the representative is that we talked to the door. In a lot of the meetings, people were brutally honest about how ridiculous they thought the group was. They were challenged in nearly every way imaginable. They didn't have the best answers to everyone's questions. A lot of the doubts people were having had to do with the fact that the group was very vague. It was a lot like Christianity, but they had all of these extra rules. So in a lot of these recruitment meetings, people would just get up and leave. Here is a member named Thomas Nichols after one of those meetings.

Like that guy said, you know they had to stop me, but that parents didn't even anything. Somebody says, I don't see anything different in what you say than everybody else saying. Well, what's different? And you spent two hours there and what you got is from what we've been saying. He thinks he could have gone to the church. You could have gotten from a church? What did you call them? Irizoting boneheads.

Yeah, that one's young cello was a bonehead for sure. Another way the group tried to reach the public was through their website called Higher Source. Now, computers were still very new at the time, but one of the members had actually owned a computer shop before he joined. so he started teaching everyone how to use them. And they used this website to not only spread their message, but also to bring in some money. We have June Oden with us, and we understand that you have something you'd like to share. Well, I ask, but this is for our clients.

And you may ask who are our clients? We've had a little business that we call it, higher source, from which we earned our income so we could consume while we were on this planet. We always were self-supporting, which a lot of entities, that were in our position might not be. And the website is actually still up and running today. You can go visit it on your computer or your phone. They also used a website called Usenet,

where you could basically post whatever you wanted about certain topics. It was like social media before social media was a thing. But Doe would go on this website and write all about how he was the second coming of Jesus and that he was going to save the world. And like anyone who produces content online, they soon started to experience, cyberbullying. Yep, believe it or not, trolls existed back then too.

But after Doe would post these things about aliens and UFOs coming to take them away, he was essentially laughed at by everyone online. And he didn't have very thick skin. The mean comments really got to him. And he felt like he wasn't able to get their message to people very effectively. Then, after being met with vast amounts of mockery and scrutiny, Doe started introducing the idea of leaving their vehicles. They never used the word suicide, but that's exactly what they meant.

For decades, people had compared them to Jonestown, and they always got really offended when people would say that. But now, they were ready to meet that same fate. How are you going to be? You're going to have to kill those vehicles? You're going to be a Jim Jones? How are you going to get out? We don't know.

Some vehicles may go back to some vehicles may not be back. Another thing that sort of drove them towards these talks of mass suicide were events like the Waco tragedy with the Branch Divideans. If you aren't familiar with those stories, we cover them in episode 28 of the podcast in our Oklahoma City bombing episode. But as a recap, the Branch Divideans were a cult in Waco. And in 1993, the U.S. government seized the compound where they were staying and basically slaughtered everyone after a long standoff. But the whole thing started because the group had a lot of weapons that the ATF was worried about.

Now obviously, the Heaven's Gate members didn't have an arsenal of weapons at all. But Doe started telling the members that a war was coming. If the government could kill off the Branch Divideans, it was only a matter of time until they were next. Love their God so in their own way that they end up being like what happened at, Randy Weaver, Ruby Ridge. What happened at? Waco. This world is rotten, and I would rather die in service to my interpretation of what God is than stay here. From here, the group was fully committed to leaving their vehicles in a mass suicide.

I mean, I don't care for any of the fame or glory of the human world. It's absolutely worth this to me. I can't wait to get out of here. I apologize for being so emotional. But that happens to be the truth. I want to leave here. Now, I'm in a vehicle that is already falling apart on me. Doe felt like suicide was the whole way out. They had already recruited as many people as they could. They spent tens of thousand dollars trying to get their message out. And not only were people rejecting them, but the government was coming down on these extreme religious groups. So Doe was paranoid. Then one day he asked everyone to join for a meeting. Once everyone entered the room, he said he wanted to hear everyone's thoughts about exiting their

vehicles. And according to the book Heaven's Gate, Doe asked, what if we had to exit our vehicles by our own choice? Does anyone have a problem with that? Doe told everyone his idea about taking a lot of barbiturates and how everyone could die peacefully in their sleep. Then, once they were all dead, the UFO would come down and get them. Some of the members were to take them. Some of the members were terrified. Many of them cried thinking that their days were coming to an end. But most of them were on board. After this meeting, five people left the group. One of them was actually Sawyer, who had been there since the beginning. He said he didn't leave because of the mention of suicide. He left because he hadn't been living by the rules of the group. He had been masturbating, having sexual thoughts,

and in his mind, he wasn't worthy of exiting his vehicle with everyone. Then one day in September of 1994, Sawyer ran into Doe, who told him, You've been distant. What's going on? Sawyer told him about how he hadn't been following the rules, but Doe didn't want to give up on him. He told him to continue to go to classes and they would work on it. So Sawyer did, but nothing changed. He continued to masturbate and he knew that because of that, he couldn't be in the group anymore, so he left. So in a way, you could say that masturbation saved his life, because just a few years later, the group would commit their mass suicide. In July of 1995, two astronomers located a large, bright common.

that was set to pass by Earth. It was the brightest comet our world had seen since 1577, and this news was the beginning of the end for Heaven's Gate. The Hilbop comet was set to pass Earth on March 22, 1997, and it was pretty big news. As swimmers around the world are turning their telescopes to the northern skies to observe the biggest, brightest, and most active comet to visit the solar system in our lifetime.

Comets Hail Bot. In an article in the Saturday Evening Post, it read, quote, less than a year after that discovery, in May of 1996, Hail Bot became visible to the naked eye and remained visible for the next 18 months. From its mysterious appearance to its dramatic exit,

astronomers and common citizens alike found their necks craned up and their eyes focused to the stars. Everyone was truly captivated by Halbop's beauty and mystery. But no one was more captivated by Halbop than cult leader Marshall Doe Herf Applewhite Jr. and the loyal followers of Heaven's Gate. End quote. When the group found out about this monumental astrological event, They just knew that this was the moment they had been waiting for all along. Even further, there were people out there suggesting that a flying saucer was flying with the comet.

A man named Chuck Schramick, who was an amateur astronomer, claimed that he took a photograph that proved the comet was being followed by a, quote, companion. Here is Chuck on a radio show hosted by Art Bell. Chuck Schremack in Houston, Texas. Chuck, welcome to the program. Thanks, sir. A lot of people have felt something's going on with heel bomb. Well, I have got me all the more curious. I can smell when they're... Why would they do that? You have just taken a photograph. When did you take it tonight?

Good evening. So, as you can imagine, when Heaven's Gate heard this, They were fully convinced that this comet was flying with the UFO that was going to take them up into heaven. And in their defense, there were other people from a nonprofit research institute called Farsight, saying that there was indeed something four times the size of Earth flying alongside the comet. Professor, what the hell is that? This object is four times, approximately four times. the size of the planet Earth.

Now, when this news came out, that was all the proof Heaven's Gate needed. They had been going through a pretty rough time, and the entire group had been praying for God to send them a sign. And this was it. Here is Dick Jocelyn talking with Larry King, years after the fact, about the comet and its significance. The Hail Bob comet had something to do with the decision to do it now. Why now? Why not 1999? Yes, the Halbop comet did have something to do with it because T. and O from the beginning were very tuned in to the significance of celestial events and their synchronistic association with events on Earth. The group also believed that T would be on the UFO.

I have been clearly informed by my older member of how short the time is. Now, eventually the large object that was allegedly following the comet turned out to be fake. What do you make in the connection with the hailed bomb? Well, as you know, there was a lot of controversy about whether or not there was an object near the hail bomb comet. Myself and another radio host, Art Bell, eventually discovered this to be a fraud. But the fact that this was debunked didn't matter to the Heaven's Gate members. They were still fully convinced that the UFO was there and that it was coming to get them. Like we mentioned, astrologists determined that the comet would be closest to Earth on March 22nd, 1997.

So that was the day they set for the mass suicide. The kingdom of heaven is in our midst. In other words, the door is open. You follow me, you believe in me, you do exactly as I say, and you'll get there. You will not know death. By then the group had moved into a massive mansion in San Diego. There were seven bedrooms, a swimming pool, tennis court, an elevator, and a citrus grove. The mansion was $7,000 a month, and they always paid their rent in cash.

Knowing that the end was near, the group wanted to have a nice place to live out their final days. In December of 1996, the group knew that it would be their very last Christmas together, so they celebrated with good food, lots of gifts, Christmas carols, the whole nine yards. Video footage from this day shows them all hugging, smiling, laughing. it honestly seemed like a really happy time for everyone. And it was. They even had some members rejoin. If you were to watch these videos,

you would have no idea that all of these people were about to die by suicide in just a few months. They all look so happy. In these very rooms where they're laughing and celebrating will one day be the rooms where they all take their lives. Here they are all getting together and singing.

After Christmas, the group traveled to Gold Beach, Oregon, where Doe and T. First discovered that they were the two witnesses back in the early 70s. This trip was very meaningful to the group, getting to see the origin place of where it all started. Then after that, they spent a few weeks traveling all around, enjoying their last few. weeks on earth. In a detailed ledger left behind by the cult, the weeks leading up to the mass suicide read like one big vacation, trips to Seaworld, San Diego's wild animal park, Mexico, and the Stranesphere Hotel in Las Vegas where they gambled and won $20.

Most people would think that this would be a really scary time for everyone, knowing they were all about to die soon. But that wasn't the case at all. They were happy and at peace. They even started talking about their plans on their website that read, quote, Red Alert, Hillbop Comet brings closure to Heaven's Gate. As the days neared March 22nd,

they started recording their exit interviews on VHS tapes in their backyard. Afterwards, they sent them out to X members so they could share them with the world once they were gone. This is March 19, 1997. I've been talking to my students that are sitting in front of me. And let me say that our mission here at this time is about to come to a close in the next few days. Okay, we're going to begin our interviews today with Soroni. How long have you been in this classroom circumstance?

I've been in here. Since Valentine's Day, 21 years ago. Under Quastodi, one last question. How do you feel about what is ahead for us? Oh. This is the happiest day of my life. I mean, I'm looking for this for so long. Some would probably sit here and somebody on the other side of this camera watching this

tape would probably say, what's going on? You all must not have a life or you're diluted or you're deluded or you're or your brainwashed or whatever the thinking might be. It's hard to tune into. From our perspective, from my perspective, this is, this is Godson. I mean, this is the answer to everything. But I want to say that Neroti is of sound mind, and although what's inhabiting this vehicle is not,

I am inhabiting me the vehicle. And I'm really glad that I'm going to be losing this vehicle, shedding it of my own volition, because I'm really tired of this world and what it has become. I feel no bitterness. I feel extreme gratitude and thankfulness to my older members, Tando. I know that all these words have been said before, but it's true. It's just a painful experience to recognize that hideousness has become the norm and that people accept it out of ignorance because they've been programmed and a lot of it is not their fault, but it is their choice. Each person has a choice to make.

And I've made mine and I'm very happy that I was given the opportunity to have this choice. And I feel very, very excited about this time and it will finally be able to leave as a class together. We've all worked very hard and we've all tried to prove to our older members that we're worthy of the effort and sacrifice. We're very happy and proud to have been members of Dino's class and would be happy about full. we're about to do. There's not much that I really have to say except I just wanted the people who are watching this to know that this is something that I have been thinking about and this is something I'm doing on my own free will and nobody is really you know forcing me to do this. It's something that I know deep inside is right for me and I feel like that's important.

The next level gives everybody their rights, they're very rights conscious and they can give them the freedom to do whatever they want. And I feel this is part of the freedom that they have given us and the choice they have given us. And I am very excited about going. I can hardly wait and I'm ready to go. As the members are making these exit videos, the world has no idea about what's ahead for the people of Heaven's Gate. Nancy Brown, who started the family network newsletter, said that in the weeks before the suicide, she received a phone call at 8 p.m. for several nights in a row.

but every time she got to the phone, the person on the other end would hang up. There's no way for her to see exactly who had been calling her, but a part of her thinks that it was her son David wanting to say his goodbyes. But the group had very strict instructions to not tell anyone about their plans of suicide, telling people could very well get in the way of their mission. On March 21, 1997, the day before the mass suicide, the group all went out to a restaurant called Marie Callendors for a last supper of sorts. and they all ordered the exact same meal,

iced tea, salad, and a turkey pot pie with blueberry cheesecake for dessert. They stayed for about 45 minutes, paid their $350 bill in cash, and then went home. Around town, the cult next door, was paying its bills in advance, picking up the main,

eating a sort of last supper of turkey pot pie. They all the same drink and now home to see dinner and dessert. And bidding a cryptic farewell to friends at the car wash. and he said, hey Alex, we just stopped by to say goodbye. And he took off his pendant and handed it to me. At their very last meeting, the group used a sign-out sheet where they clocked in at a certain time. They'd used this sign-out method for decades, but this one looked a bit different. Written on it, you could see all 38 members' names, the time they clocked in.

But in the section that listed their estimated time of return, most of them made silly comments like, never, goodbye, or Oste la Vista, baby. We hope that we took advantage of the time that we had incarnate in these human vehicles and will be of better service to the next level because of it.

On the morning of March 22nd, 1997, Doe and his 38 members woke up and got dressed in their handmade uniforms. They wore black long-sleeved shirts with a colorful heaven gate patch that reads, away team. They also wore black slacks and black and white Nike tennis shoes.

All of the members put exactly $5.75 into their pockets. According to Mark Twain, that's the cost of a ride up into heaven. After everyone was dressed and ready, they split up into three groups. The first group consisted of 15 people, and eight members from the second group were going to help them through their suicide. Each of the 15 members then grabbed their pudding or applesauce, which contained a lethal dose of a sedative called phenobarbital. For the next few seconds, he scarfed it down, and once they were finished, they chased it with a shot of vodka. From here, they each laid down in their respective beds and put a plastic bag over their heads. The eight people from Group 2 walked around, comforting and assisting everyone through the process.

The sedative kicked in about 10 minutes after consumption. The side effects of the dose would have made them extremely tired. After they drifted off, the members likely slipped into a coma, and the plastic. bag would eventually cut off their oxygen, killing them. The eight people from the second group were still walking around, checking on everyone. And once a member would die, they would take the plastic bag off their head and lay a purple shroud over their body. It's believed that the suicides of this first group took an entire day. And once all 15 members were dead, the second group started with the second group started with,

preparing for their suicide, which would be assisted by members of the third group. Once again, they all ate their applesauce and pudding, chased it with a shot of vodka, and laid down in their bed with a plastic bag over their heads, as they slowly slipped away. I've always wondered what the energy was like as the suicides were taking place. In their exit interviews, everyone seems happy and excited to the, die, but when it actually came down to it, I wonder if there were any hesitations. Did anyone cry

or try to back out? We don't know. Doe, their leader, happened to be in this second group. In most of the rooms around the home, there were several members per bedroom. But Doe was by himself in the primary bedroom. He was lying in bed just like everyone else. And once he was gone, the final members placed the purple shroud over his body. It took a whole other day for everyone in the second group to eventually pass. And by the last day, there were only two members left. One being David Brown, whose mother Nancy started the family newsletter. I wasn't able to find the other member who was with David,

but these two took the job of making sure ever, everyone's passing was successful. And now, it was their turn. They, like everyone else, took the lethal dose and then laid in bed with the plastic bags over their heads. Both of them eventually died. But unlike the others, no one had been there to take the bags off their heads or to place the purple shroud over their bodies.

But with that, after three long days. the members of Heaven's Gate had all officially died, 39 people in one home, all hoping to be taken away in a UFO following Halbop's comet. Before the mass suicide, Doe had actually made preparations for their bodies to be discovered. One of their ex-members, named Rio DiAngelo, left the group two weeks prior to the suicide. He told Doe that he didn't want to be involved in the suicide pact because he felt his purpose was to write about his experiences in heaven.

game and show the world who they were. And Doe was supportive of this. I had a very uneasy feeling, a strange feeling, that I needed to do something outside of the class. And I spoke to Doe about it, and he felt that it was probably part of the plan, some higher plan that we didn't know about. Even further, Doe sent Rio a package asking if he could go to the home after the suicide was completed and record everything he found.

So he did just that. There's an infamous video you can find. of this footage. We'll be posting it on our Patreon, but I can't even describe to you how eerie the video is. Rio drove over to the San Diego mansion with his video camera, and he went through the kitchen door, which Doe specifically left unlocked for him. From here, he walked room to room, recording all of the bodies lying throughout the home. I can't imagine what it felt like in there, the presence of 39 dead bodies covered in those purple blankets, all of whom were once your friends, your family. Then, after the video was recorded, Rio placed a call to 911.

Hello? Yes, I need to report... Sheriff Deputy Robert Brunk would eventually make his way over to the home and make the horrifying discovery. And soon enough, the entire world was about to learn about what happened to Heaven's Gate. Police in San Diego County say they've discovered what appears to be a mass suicide at a multi-million dollar mansion in Rancho Santa Fe. That's about 20 miles north of San Diego. Rumors are rampant around here, unconfirmed rumors that there may be as many as 30 or 40 people inside that house.

We do know from neighbors, though, that a religious group did move in back in the fall and that they have been very, very quiet. I waved over the fence to some people. They never uttered a word. Now, when the medical examiner first arrived, they initially thought that all of the members were male because of the short haircuts. But once they finally discovered their identities, they found that there were 21 women and 18 men.

Most of the group was in their 40s, but their ages ranged from 26 to 72. Now, police are saying that these bodies were found in different rooms of the house. They were found lying prone with their hands at their sides. and they are saying that there were no signs of trauma. 21 women, 18 men, all dressed in similar outfits. Apparently, they all thought they were headed to heaven in a spaceship. There were a lot of unanswered questions at first.

We don't know what the cause of death is at this point. We have no idea. No one was sure exactly how they died. But as investigators made their way through the home, they got a pretty good idea. On trays inside of the rooms were pill containers, pudding, spoons, napkins, medicine, damp paper towels. There was also a list of instructions that read, quote, Take the pills in the small container, drink the vodka, as much as comfortable.

Eat the pudding as quickly as you can. Lay down, relax, and you should fall asleep fairly soon. End quote. Here is the medical examiner Mark Malamados talking to the media, describing their bodies as peaceful. Now the coroner officials have stopped in the street. We are talking to members of the media, several dozen of it now gathered outside the van's door, trying to get worded any detail at all on this story. And I saw it on the front of the body laying on the bed there with the purple trail on it,

on the front of the newspaper. And I said, and it said, 39 dead in a cult in San Diego. And I thought, oh, my God, look at this. This is terrible, 39. After investigating the scene and the bodies, investigators were able to get a picture of what happened in the home over those three days. The bodies have been dead for varying periods of time.

Some of them look like 24 to 36 hours. Others looked like three days, three plus days. It appears there were in three groups. First group went ahead with this plan, and the second group sort of assisted them, cleaned up after them, and covered them with this red cloth after they had died. And the third team helped the second team.

And then they were finally down to two people who were not shrouded with these sheets. So we believe they were the last ones. They did have plastic bags over their heads. They also discovered that all 39 members died of exphyxia from the plastic bags. And as the world found out about the largest mass suicide on U.S. soil, the victim's family members were getting the news that they had dreaded from the very beginning.

For the families of the victim's news of these suicides, in many cases, that was the first they'd heard of their relatives in years. It was part of a Heaven's Gate credo, no contact with outside family members. Kelly Cook remembered hearing the news, and she was devastated. Interestingly enough, her father, Wayne, had actually left the cult, so he was still living, but that wasn't the case for her mom. Suzanne had left several times over the years, but always seemed to make her way back. The Voddy was also out of the classroom for a while, and she knew that this was where life was,

and she came back to life when she had an opportunity to return to the classroom. Gayle Maider's parents had lost their daughter to the cult a few years earlier in 1994 and they could have never imagined that her life would have ended the way it did. It's been a big enough hole for three years but now that hole is never going to heal because she's gone.

I mean the kids are supposed to bury the old folks, not the other way around. Here is Gail in her exit interview. What we're about to do is certainly nothing to being negatively about we're all choosing our own free will go to the next level of the TM dome Frank the longtime member who had left the group years earlier

said that as soon as he heard the media say that a monastic group of men had committed a mass suicide he knew immediately that it was heaven's gate even though they incorrectly said men he still knew and he said to himself they've finally done it Terry Nettles T's daughter said she had no idea that it was heaven's gate until she heard the mention of a UFO, then she knew immediately. Here she is on Larry King.

When you heard about what happened north of San Diego, did you know immediately? No, I didn't. A friend of mine called me at work and started telling me, he didn't I can believe what I'm seeing on TV. And she mentioned the term Father Doe, and she mentioned the UFO and the Hellbock Comet. Then you knew. And then I went, oh man, so I started making some phone calls, and I found out they showed my mom's picture and Herf's picture. Sad?

Yeah, it's really. Terry was shocked that the group her mom co-founded ended in the way that it did. She claims that if her mom was still around, she would have never let it end that way, which could be true. Many people believe that Doe got carried away after T's death, and that his mental illness and delusions caused him to spiral down a path of control and manipulation. Now, another family member that would be affected by this tragedy was actually a celebrity named Michelle Nichols, whose brother Thomas died in the mass suicide.

Believe it or not, Michelle was actually an actress in Star Trek. who played the character of Lieutenant O'Hura. This was interesting because, like we mentioned earlier, Doe loved Star Trek. It was one of the only things the group was allowed to watch. Here's Michelle talking to the media about her brother's death. I respect my brother's wishes, and I respect him as a human being. I respect him as an intelligent human being. Now, as you can imagine, this was huge.

huge news across the world. Every news station in the country was covering the story. Nothing like this had ever happened here. And there was a lot of negative conversation surrounding it all, for believing a UFO was going to save them. In the months and years following the tragedy, the media made mockery of their beliefs. Sawyer and Frank, who had both spent many years in the cult,

didn't like the way people were talking about the group. So they decided it was time to come forward with an accurate representation of Heaven's Gate. Here are Frank and Sawyer on Larry King. Joining us now from Seattle is Andrew, a member of Heaven's Gate for 18 years from 1975 to 1993. That's an assumed name, by the way. In New York is Sawyer, also an assumed name,

and he was a member of Heaven's Gate. What do you make of this, Sawyer? Well, see, the group was looking, to leave the planet. They were going to do it in any way that they possibly could. Okay, so they were thinking brainstorming constantly on how that might occur so that they could then, uh, their souls could then move into the next level. You had stayed a few more years. Would you have killed yourself with them? I doubt it. I mean, Sawyer, you left in 94. That's not too long ago. Would you have killed yourself

with them, Sawyer? Well, surprisingly, as it may seem, I, uh, had at the time I thought I would, yes. Another former member, Dick Jocelyn, spoke to the media in favor of the Heaven's Gate cult. We've been compared to Jones Town. We've been compared to... Well, now you're going to be compared to Josal. What do you mean we?

You're not part of this, Eddie. In a sense, I am. I left, but when you see those people, you re-experience that, it will always be with you. This will always be with me. I don't disclaim it. Dick was a loyal member of Heaven's Gate for nearly two decades. I was never able to find out why he left, but as you can see, he considered them family. After he left the group, like everyone else, he had a hard time learning how to operate in the real world.

He worked with psychiatrists in the years after the suicide until he died from AIDS complications in the year 2000. But one of the main worries people had after the mass suicide was that there were hundreds of ex-members still out in the world. And I'm sure all of them struggled after learning that these people, who they once considered family, had all died. And there was a big worry that some of these ex-members would follow in their footsteps. Dick Jocelyn says that he is aware of at least a half-dozen members

who plan to do the same thing in the future. Wow, he said that just today. We just got this on the wire this morning. Yes. Well, that doesn't surprise me either, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were more. A woman named Deb Simpson had heard about the mass suicide, and she remembered talking to her family about how those people were crazy. And then she heard that they were a part of a cult called Heaven's Gate.

As soon as she heard the news, her heart dropped. Deb's brother, Jimmy Simpson, had been a part of that cult years earlier. Jimmy was still alive, but like everyone else, he had had a hard time adjusting once he left. Then one day, about five weeks after the suicide, Deb got a call from her aunt. When she answered the phone, her aunt was crying, telling her that she received a letter from Jimmy saying, By the time you get this, I will be dead. It's past time for me to go. The precious spirits have long since taken flight. As always, Jimmy. As soon as she got the letter, she sent someone over to his house to check on him. But when they knocked on the door, they heard the sound

of a gunshot. Jimmy killed himself so that he could be with the rest of Heaven's Gate. Next to his body were pictures of all the members that he had cut out of a magazine. He also drew a picture of the 39 people being lifted into heaven. Jimmy Simpson was technically the 40th suicide victim of Heaven's Gate. Like we mentioned earlier, Kelly Cook lost her mom in the mass suicide, but she was so grateful to still have her dad Wayne. He would eventually appear on 60 Minutes to talk about his wife's suicide.

His daughter Kelly was also there. Your mother was one of the 39 who committed suicide with that group. Now they think that she's up in a spacecraft. Do you believe that? This will be very difficult for people to understand. This is something she worked all of her life to accomplish. this she graduated. You wish you had gone with them.

I wish I had the strength to have remained, to have been the kind of control through those help, these help, to have stuck it out and continue to be a part of that crew, yes. I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for Kelly to hear her dad say that. And there was always this fear in the back of her mind that one day her father would take his life in an attempt to join them.

Kelly tried to support her dad the best she could, but then one day he told her he was moving to Vegas with another ex-member named Chuck Humphrey. Kelly knew exactly what this meant, so she begged him to stay and live out the rest of his life with his family, but he had already made up his mind, And with that, he and Chuck left. Not long after, Kelly received a package in the mail.

It was a VHS tape from Chuck and her dad. And on it was their exit interview. Here is Chuck's. Hi, my name is Rikodi. By the time that you see this tape, I'll be gone. I'm not dying. I'm not going to be dead. I am simply leaving this vehicle.

I know that's going to be hard for people to take. I know that with the response that people have had from my older members, I'll be leaving this vehicle, and they will probably find this vehicle in a motel somewhere, and I'm going to be leaving in much the same way that my classmates and my older member left. Following Chuck's exit interview, Kelly watches her father's. I'm sane and I'm happy and I want very much to follow my classmates and my teachers tea and dough. Around the same time Kelly was watching this, detectives in San Diego were responding to a call of two suicide attempts. I'm so glad the team guide me back to them and I'm so glad that we'll be joining tea again in this level very soon.

It took about three hours for San Diego County Sheriff Detective to zero in on this Encinitas Hotel and this particular hotel room, room 222. This is where two people tried to commit suicide. Kelly soon learned that the two men were her dad, Wayne, and his friend, Chuck Humphrey. But surprisingly, only one of the men had actually died. The other was in the hospital in critical condition. Kelly held on to hope that her dad was. was the one who lived, but something deep down told her he was gone, and she was right. Wayne Cook would end up being the 41st suicide victim of Heaven's Gate.

This is where two people tried to commit suicide. One of them, former Heavens Gate member, 55-year-old Wayne Cook, died here, and his body was removed late this afternoon. His partner, 57-year-old Charles Humphrey, was found on the floor, barely alive. Both Chuck and Wayne used the exact same method of suicide that the Heaven's Gate members did. But during the process, out of reflex, Chuck actually pulled the plastic bag off his head, resulting in a failed suicide attempt. After he recovered, everyone tried to get him the help he needed, but it was obvious that his heart was still committed to the cult.

Here is Chuck speaking with the media after his recovery. Our objective was to leave the vehicle. and catch up with the class and catch up with our older member. I tried my best to do it at this time and failed. Mr. Humphrey, would you ever attempt suicide again? I don't know. You don't know? I can't answer that question. Then one day, about a year after the mass suicide,

Chuck emailed another ex-member, telling him that he was on his way over to a spot that the group used to meet at, and he ended the email with, I'll see you upstairs. Knowing exactly what this meant, the ex-member notified the police, who immediately made their way over to the location, and it was there where they found Chuck Humphrey's body. Hi, my name is Rikodi, and by the time that you see this take, I'll be gone.

Making him the 42nd suicide victim of Heaven's Gate. Another former member named Wayne Parker would eventually take his life as well, but I wasn't able to find much information about it. But with that being said, four ex-members altogether would end up taking their lives following this horrible tragedy, bringing the death count to 43. In 1998, all the living former members of Heaven's Gate had a reunion in Missoula, Montana. Many of them were still 100% convinced that the cult's teachings were true. Here's ex-member Lorraine Nelson in 1998.

I believe that Tito know my mind. Regardless of how they left here, it doesn't matter. To me, they're on a higher level of understanding. The reunion was very comforting for a lot of the ex-members, even for the ones that didn't believe in it anymore. For a while now, the world laughed at them. No one understood them. and it was nice to all get together and be around the few people in the world who did understand.

Another person who came to this reunion was Terry Nettles, T's daughter. Although she was never a member herself, she wanted to have closure too, and meet the people that followed her mom's teachings. And during this reunion, she actually pulled out a pile of letters that T sent her in the years before her death. She read a few of the letters to the group, but as she did, everyone was shocked. For decades, T and Doe heavily stressed the importance of not speaking to your family. But Tee had been writing her daughter the entire time. As you can imagine, many people were very upset about this.

Why was T going against the very rule she sat in place? Even further, in one of the letters T wrote, quote, Be good, strive for goodness, and by all means, conform to society so that you will have a peace of mind. And hearing this was shocking, because conforming to society went against everything they taught. Why would Tee be giving her daughter this advice that went directly against everything she believed in? Terry believes that it was a code her mom was trying to send, almost like she wanted to leave the group, but she couldn't because she was too caught up in it.

But it's also important to note that Tee was the one who came up. up with most of the beliefs in Heaven's Gate. She was the one who brought up the idea of aliens and a UFO. Doe referred to her as God. So, who knows? We will truly never know T's intentions behind the advice she gave her daughter. But when the members heard all of this, they were pretty upset. It was like their leader, the person they looked up to for years.

The person they looked up to for years was living this big lie. Frank Leiford, the ex-member that we have referenced throughout this episode, is still alive, and he still faces struggles learning how to adjust to the real world after 20 years in the cult. It took him decades to relearn everything, but once he did, he felt so free. He's finally reached a point where he can enjoy life. He now travels the world and lives life the way he wants to, but that doesn't mean he doesn't often think about his time in the cult, and the members he once considered family.

He would later tell the HBO documentary that he used to always have dreams of his old girlfriend, Erica, who died in the mass suicide. The dreams would occur about once a month for years. His last dream was in 2015, and in it, he and Erica were on a beach together when she looked at him and said,

I have to go. Then she gets up and walks into the ocean, and that was the last time he ever dreamt of her. Frank said that Erica was the love of his life, and he's confident that one day he'll see her again. As for Sawyer, the other ex-member we referenced throughout the show, he's one of the people on earth that's still a member of Heaven's Gate. He still believes in all of its teachings

and that one day he'll enter into the next level with the rest of his class. He doesn't feel guilt that he wasn't a part of the mass suicide, but he believes that one day, Doe will come back for him. And maybe he's right. We have no evidence to prove otherwise. You say that we're a hoax, say that we're just too, misguided insane creatures.

And these poor misguided individuals and others like them are endeavoring to do this thing. They're stronger now. They have rid themselves more of the garbage they have collected. If we even turned out to not be what we were, they are ten times what they have ever been, and they know it. Many people out there assume that the cult of Heaven's Gate ended when the group killed themselves on March 22, 1997. But as you can see, that's not the case. The effects of this cult are still being felt to this very day, whether it be from ex-members who are still learning how to adjust,

the members who killed themselves after the fact, the cult members' family who grieve the loss over their loved one every day, and even end the believers who still pray to Tien Doe in hopes that their UFO will one day come back for them. The idea of a cult can be pretty scary. The fact that Tien Doe had such a powerful grip over these people is hard to even fathom. Many people don't look at this case as murder.

After all, the Heaven's Gate members wanted to die that day. Doe wasn't shoving the pudding down their throats, forcing them to end their lives. And in their exit interviews, they're all smiling. You can tell that they are truly at peace with the fact that they're all going to die, which in a way is, comforting. Everyone deserves a peaceful death, right? But even though this case isn't technically

considered murder, it makes you think if someone is so powerful, so manipulative that they convince 38 people to kill themselves, that's close enough to murder for me. Growing up, my mom was always the best at handling sticky, stressful situations. I mean, We have so many crazy family memories, so many things that stick out to me, so many trips that we took and just funny moments. I mean, I remember specifically one just crazy time when we had jet skis and we took them out. We had rented them for the day and we took them out on this lake. And somehow something got on the engine of the jet ski. Mine stalled.

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and free shipping when you visit neutrophol.com and enter promo code M-I-A. That's NutraFol.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com, promo code M-I-A. Hey, everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. This story is a story that I personally have wanted to cover for years. I've always been intrigued by Heaven's Gate and the whole lore behind the cult. I mean, it's just, it's a wild, wild story. I know some people are going to say that it's technically not a murder,

but in my belief, if you lead people to their deaths and you know, you convince them to all commit suicide, you're just as guilty as somebody that stabs somebody. And that's just my personal opinion. But we have some really, really amazing episodes coming up, some major cases, some lesser known cases. The show has grown so much in the last year. And seriously, we, Courtney and I both cannot thank you guys enough for what you've done for us.

And I'm really glad that you all are in. enjoying the show. I want to shout out our new patrons this week. Kristen Levoy, Kirsten, Susan Thompson, Melissa Scott, Marco Reyes, Janice Carpenter, Connor Howk, and Alyssa Dozer. Every week, our Patreon grows and it's so awesome. If you want to become a patron, just head to patreon.com and search Murder in America. If you sign up to become a patron, you can get the ad-free versions of every single episode that we post. I know a lot of people don't like the ads. So you can just head to Patreon sign up there. Then you get the clean version every week as soon as it goes live. on all streaming platforms.

If you want to see photos from all the cases that we cover, just head over to our Instagram, Murder in America. We're trying to grow our Instagram as well, and give us a little follow. That would really help. But yeah, we have a really, really in-depth case coming next week.

I hope y'all enjoyed this episode. And from here in Tennessee, where I'm recording my parts, have a good rest of your week, everybody, and thanks for listening.