Murder in the Orange Grove: The Troubled Case Against Crosley Green - Rumors: 2

Episode Date: September 25, 2024

When news spread about Chip Flynn’s murder, it didn’t take long for people to start pointing fingers at Crosley Green. So, how did a man without a violent criminal past become the main suspect? It turns out the Green family was well known by law enforcement for all the wrong reasons. But did that mean he was responsible for killing a man?Get early, ad-free access to episodes of Murder in the Orange Grove: The Troubled Case Against Crosley Green by subscribing to 48 Hours+ on Apple Podcasts or Wondery+ on the Wondery app. Subscribe to 48 Hours+: https://apple.co/4aEgENo Subscribe to Wondery+: https://wondery.com/plus/.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

48 Hours Plus and Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to new episodes of Murder in the Orange Grove, The Troubled Case Against Crosley Green, one week early and ad-free right now. Join 48 Hours Plus on Apple Podcasts or Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. In 2014, Laura Heavlin was in her home in Tennessee when she received a call from California. Her daughter, Erin Corwin, was missing. The young wife of a Marine had moved to the California desert to a remote base near Joshua Tree National Park. They have to alert the military, and when they do, the NCIS gets involved. From CBS Studios and CBS News, this is 48 Hours NCIS. Listen to 48 Hours NCIS ad-free starting October 29th on Amazon Music. Did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder, early and ad-free on Wondery Plus and the Wondery app. This is Agent DeMars, Brevard County Sheriff's Office Criminalistics Unit. We are at Holder Park.

On the morning of April 4th, 1989, hours after Chip Flynn's murder, Agent Debbie DeMars arrived on scene at Holder Park shortly before dawn. It's the place where Chip and his ex-girlfriend Kim Hallick sat and talked in his truck, and where Kim says a black man approached the vehicle. DeMars recorded her observations. The crime scene begins with what we believe to be suspect shoe prints that initiate at this point. Holder Park is a popular, well-trampled site for local baseball games.

Agent DeMars and the crime unit team were there specifically looking at the tire tracks of Chip Flynn's truck, along with shoe prints that they thought could belong to the perpetrator. Agent DeMars assumed that the alleged attacker arrived at the park in a vehicle, and she tracked shoe prints... Heading in a west direction up into the area between the trees,

which is where the victim's vehicle was parked, along with the two victims, prior to the abduction. But oddly, DeMars also saw those same suspect shoe prints exiting the area towards a baseball field, not disappearing as they would if the wearer had gotten into a truck. The shoe prints after proceeding west will then continue on around just to the outside of this fence, with the last shoe print being seen just north of the second cement pole. As Agent DeMars continued her investigation, local news crews descended on the scene. About 200 yards down this road is apparently where the murder occurred. Sheriff's officials tell us all three got out of the truck and then both men fired shots.

The next day, April 5th, the newspaper featured a photo of DeMars helping another agent pull up a plaster cast of a shoe print. And just below that, a police sketch of a black man. The image reflected the details that Kim Halleck had given officers about the alleged assailant. And now police were asking for help as they searched for a black male. It didn't take long for people to start pointing fingers at Crosley Green. I wanted a person who'd done it. I wanted justice done at all costs. But what exactly was justice 35 years ago in the small Florida communities of Titusville and Mims. It's an area where racial lines have been clearly drawn for generations and where animus and fear still

lived right below the surface. I'm 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty. This is Murder in the Orange Grove, the troubled case against Crosley Green, episode two, Rumors. Okay, first thing, I just want you to introduce yourself, tell me your name, and how long you've lived in Titusville in Brevard County. My name's Timothy Lee Curtis. I've lived in Titusville in Brevard County? My name's Timothy Lee Curtis. I've lived in Titusville basically my entire life, and I'd like to say that's 26 years. But it's a little longer. I've lived in Titusville 63 and a half years. I've been interviewing Tim Curtis off and on for 25 years, most recently in late spring of 2024. His family ran a local body shop in Titusville, Florida for decades. It's where deputy sheriffs

would bring in their cars for service. So Tim was privy to a lot of gossip around town. He's a friendly guy to have a beer with, but I've learned over the years there's more to him than he lets on. How big a story was this? How big a case in town? I mean, we were a small town back then, and we have a young guy that was allegedly murdered by a black guy. So that was very, very heated in the community. The town of Titusville sits smack dab in the middle of Florida's East Coast. It's part of the state that's also known as the Space Coast, since it's home to Kennedy Space Center. Titusville is relatively small compared to nearby Orlando. MIMS, an incorporated

area of Brevard County, is even smaller. There's no high school in MIMS. The entire area is assigned to Astronaut High School in Titusville. And that means people know each other. People like Tim Curtis. Did you know Kim Halleck at all back then? Yes, I knew the Halleck family very well. And Tim became close friends with Chip Flynn after selling him a truck, the same truck that Chip was driving the night he was killed. I think Chip was just a young, ambitious boy like most of us were that had a whole life ahead of him that was very excited when I sold him the truck, that he had this beautiful, nice truck to drive around. For a young guy, back then it was cars, trucks, and girls.

Tim had also known Crosley Green and his brother O'Connor since they were teenagers. You were good friends with O'Connor, weren't you? Yeah, I admired O'Connor. We admired O'Connor because he was such a phenomenal football player. And I've known Crosley many, many years. I mean, he liked to run smack from his mouth. You know, he was the type of guy that would probably steal your lawnmower if you were sitting on it and you not know it was stolen. That in particular day of the crime, I ran into

Crossley because I used to jog and I ran by his house and me and him exchanged some words, no heated words. We were just, his dog had run out after me and I'd said some things, don't let your dog bite me, it ain't going to end well, kind of thing. And what did Crosley say back? He may have said something like, you know, and if I remember correctly, he used the word cracker. Cracker, don't you hurt my dog, cracker, now or something, you know, that, then I'll use some words back at him as to, you know, you better get your dog, Crosley. Tim had told me something similar when I first spoke with him in 1999.

They said that the guy who done this was using the word cracker a lot. And I think that there alone, to be honest with you, stuck with me. It stuck with Tim and would further convince him that Crosley was a prime suspect in Chip Flynn's murder. When police released a composite sketch of the alleged assailant, Tim posted it on the wall of his shop. And some of the rumor had already been that, you know, they're looking for Crosley, that Crosley's one of the suspects. O'Connor Green saw the sketch posted in Tim's shop. I remember having some words about it, and I said, you know, that looks like Crosley, like just to see his response. And he was very, you know, outspoken going, you know, BS, Timmy, you know, damn good and well, that don't look like my brother. And I was trying to maybe like pry him a little bit, you know, because in fairness, I like Chip.

I'm the one that sold Chip the truck. You know, I was very, you know, very concerned. And I was definitely wanting whoever did this to be brung to justice, you know. So I was, to be honest with you, I was out to help in any way I could. And so Tim Curtis decided to go to the police with a tip. One that involved a story that he had heard about Crosley Green. A story that had been passed along from this man. My name is Kerwin Hepburn.

Kerwin Hepburn knew Chip Flynn, Tim Curtis, and Crosley Green, who was known around town as Papa. I spoke to Kerwin in 1999. We sat on a weathered picnic table in the front yard of the house where he lived with his parents. It was an early evening. Rumor Control had it that he did it. Rumor Control?

Rumor Control. it that he did it. Rumor control? Rumor control. What does that mean? Oh, just gossip in the street, I guess you would call it. The morning after the murder, April 4th, Kerwin was at work cutting grass near the Orange Grove. The area was roped off and full of police activity. Kerwin said that later that day, two of Chip's relatives asked if he had any information about who killed Chip. And we got to talking, so he said, hey, Kerwin, did you hear anything? And of course, I just, you know, and I told him, rumor has it that such and such took place, you know, and naming Papa Green.

So you told him there was a rumor. Rumor. That Papa Green had done. Rumor. And I want to emphasize rumor. I mean, it wasn't nothing that I knew for a fact or I don't think anybody else knew for a fact. It was just rumor control. And I guess

the rumor started because basically the police was looking for him to question him concerning the murder. And I'm assuming that's how the rumor got started. That evening, two investigators showed up at Kerwin's doorstep. And said, hey, you know, Kerwin, we need to talk to you. And I was like, for what? Concerning Papa Green, do you know him? Yeah, I know him. Well, we need you to, we want to talk to you concerning him about this murder you heard about. I don't know nothing about it. But they insisted that I

go with them to talk to them and discuss this concerning Papa in this murder case. Wait a minute. So you told these investigators clearly you knew nothing about it. I didn't know nothing about it. And they still asked you to come in to where? Sheriff's department? Exactly. Kerwin had been on probation at the time of Chip's murder and had not been following the probation requirements. So when the interview began... Did you feel pressured to give them something?

Did you feel you had to? Well, let me ask you a question. Considering the fact that I was on probation, I wasn't following the probation to the letter T. I mean, you make the call. You felt pressure? Yeah, I mean, yeah. I read some of Kerwin's statements to the police back to him,

specifically where he recounted something that he had heard from O'Connor Green. Look here, in your statement, and this is a tape statement, right? It says, let's see, I heard O'Connor talking about it, you know. The only thing I really heard was the fact that, you know, his brother was a dumb F for doing it, this and that, more or less that kind of thing. I mean, was this you talking? Nah. You don't... Nah, I mean, and here you go.

What I'm saying is, I think they kind of take what I'm trying to say out of context and trying to say that I said that O'Connor said that his brother killed that person. But what I'm saying is Papa wasn't willing to turn himself in. You understand what I'm saying? He wasn't willing to turn himself in, and his brother was just saying,

hey, you're being a dumb F for not doing it, because you need to do it and just go on and face up to it. But why? If Papa Green didn't commit this murder, why was the big concern about him turning himself in? Well, you think about it. Now, I mean, and I'm going to make a harsh statement here, and I don't want to offend nobody here because I'm the only one here of color.

It's hard, I mean, it's hard as a black person, okay, being accused of committing a murder, killing a white person, okay, your best bet is just go on and turn yourself in. Because, I mean, reality is if you sit there and run around on the street, you're subject to get shot by a cop, period. I mean, that's pretty ugly and hard to say, but that's reality. That's America. I showed Kerwin a copy of the police composite sketch that was made from Kim Halleck's description of the alleged assailant the morning after the shooting on April 4th, 1989. Does this look like Crosley Gray? No, it don't.

At all? No, it don't. Why not? Why doesn't this look like Crosley Gray? First of all, he got too much hair. All right. Nose too big, lips too big. His chin's not made up.

His face is too fat. That's not Pop. Not at all. And I know darn well I could have been zooted out of my mind. I would have never said that was pop because I don't know nothing like it. But regardless of Kerwin Hepburn's denials here, it's safe to say that he had been part of the rumor bill that Crosley Green was involved in killing Chip Flynn.

That rumor would jump to Chip's relatives, who would then pass that information on to Tim Curtis. But instead of it being called just a rumor, the rumor became fact. Crosley Green had killed Chip Flynn. Tim, who had called the police on April 5th with that information, just added fuel to the fire. On the evening of April 5th, Kim Halleck returned to the sheriff's office Chip, she pointed to a photo that was darker than any of the others.

It was Crosley Green. Crosley Green and his family had been in the local news on and off for years since he was a young child. It was Christmas 1966 when a fire destroyed his family's home in Mims. A kerosene heater had exploded. Luckily, everyone was able to escape. An Orlando newspaper reported that the family lost all of their possessions, and the community rallied to help the family. The Green siblings were always close, 11 of them in total. Crosley was the third oldest. I sat down with three of them in 2020. My name is Shirley White, and Crosley Green is my brother. And just out of curiosity, where are you in the family? I am the oldest. My name is O'Connor Green, and I'm Crosley's little brother.

My name is Debra Green, and I'm Crosley's sister. I'm the third oldest sister. And where from Crosley? You don't have to worry. Five. I'm the fifth. Degra, how would you describe your brother? Papa was kind, playful with me.

He was smart. Shirley told me the origin of Crosby's nickname, Papa. It just was a name that we just picked out when he was a little boy. And everybody fell in love with it, and very few people called him Crosby, because everybody knew him as Papa. And O'Connor, but there was a reason, I mean, that he was called Papa, wasn't it? I mean, it fit him. Yeah, he was the favorite boy in the family. When it came to a dad and son relationship, you know, Dad always called him Papa, too.

Their father, Booker T. Green, was a truck driver for a Mims Citrus firm. And growing up in Mims, you know, my dad was the only one who worked. My mom mostly stayed home and helped us in school and everything. Kept the food cooked, kept everything cleaned up around the house and everything. And while Booker was working, Crosley took on a fatherly role in the family, even towards his older sister, Shirley. He would talk to me like a father, because my father, he was so busy working, even though

we know he loved us, but he didn't have the time to just show us and talk to us. Papa was like, he was that father. And when he'd say something, he would just look at him. And you took heed to what he'd say. He said, don't do it, you don't do it. He played a big part in my life, even though I was the oldest. He played a very, very special part in my heart.

Crosley played football in high school, but according to Crosley, he dropped out to spend more time working with his father. He really looked out for the family and he he looked out for the people that he didn't even know. You know, he spent a lot of time helping people do things. If you needed any kind of help, and he was around, you know, he always gave you a hand. But there was also an intensely dark side to their family life. The Green children grew up poor, and they were victims of domestic violence, all of which culminated in their parents' horrific murder-suicide in 1977. Shortly after their parents separated, Booker T. Green

shot their mother Constance twice before shooting himself. Crosley was 19 at the time. O'Connor was 17. And this is when Crosley truly became papa of the family. Besides his two older sisters, Shirley and Tina, most of the Green siblings were minors. Crosley also had a son, Shuma, who was two years old. It was really, really hard. And my brother just stood up as the big brother of our family.

And I'm the little brother, and I go to him a lot to help me do a lot of things that I didn't know how to do. My dad taught him. He taught me. His siblings said that Crosley had actually already taken on a more protective role in the family before their parents' deaths due to the abuse they had suffered at home as children. But that turbulent home environment took a toll on Crosley and his siblings. There were run-ins with police. Yeah, how would you describe the Green family reputation? Not very good. That's Kerwin Hepburn again. It wasn't a good family last name to have at that time. The family was, you know, pretty deep in the drug scene and stuff like that. I feel that the cops wanted all of them off the street. This place has always been pretty well a drug-infested area

since, like, the weeds of the mid-'70s and the 80s and this crack stuff took off, right? You didn't see police out here until you saw, until you start seeing white females and white males start coming through that place up there on that corner. Then all of a sudden, now we got a problem. And when you say whites coming here to buy drugs.

Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But before that, there was no problem. See, there was no problem. Long as, you know, black selling to black ain't no problem. But once the Caucasians started coming in, now we got a problem. Several weeks before Chip Flynn was killed, Crosley had been released from prison after serving time on a drug charge.

And that wasn't the first time he had been in trouble. His legal problems had started many years earlier, when he was a teen. Crosley had previously been charged with robbery when he was 17. He also pleaded guilty to another robbery in upstate New York. But because he was 18, he was categorized as a youthful offender, and his conviction was vacated. It would not count towards his record. Over the years, his brother O'Connor had also done time in prison relating to theft and burglary. While authorities would deny it, O'Connor thought that after Chip's murder,

Crosley and his family became targets. They tried to get me to come down to the Titusville, no, the sheriff's department. So I went. I went down there and I can't think of the officer who was asking me all these questions and stuff. Where you were, this date. Did you see Crosley that date? You know, they just wanted to know my whereabout, where I was.

The whole tours that night, they wanted to know where I was. And they finally backed up off me. Well, because you had an alibi, didn't you? Yeah. They backed up off me and left me alone. O'Connor's alibi was airtight. He was at a bar with over 60 people at the time of the murder. I mean, do you think that if you didn't have an alibi, it could be you sitting in prison? Yeah. Do you think there was a desire't have an alibi, it could be you sitting in prison? Yeah. Do you think there was a desire to just take you off the streets?

The way it looked like it, yes. That's what it really looked like, seemed like to me. You know, they didn't care who it was. As long as they got somebody, that's all they were looking for. When did you find out you were a suspect? When did I find out I was a suspect? Mm-hmm. Maybe a day or two days after that was the main suspect. And what was your reaction? What was my reaction to that was that, here I go again.

Here I go again. As you've already heard, Crosley was no stranger to run-ins with the law. And yet, he had never been convicted of a violent crime. But why would people in your neighborhood, I mean, you grew up in Mims, think you could do something like this? For number one, it ain't what they think. It's what they have been told. From what one person's been told, then he takes it to another person, and another person takes it to another person, and in that change, everything gets turned around. One day into the investigation, things were not looking good for Crosley Green. Crosley had been in Holder Park. He had gone to

a baseball game earlier on the night of the killing. A former classmate of Crosley's told police that he had been at the same game and said Crosley had been wearing a plain green army jacket, which matched Kim's initial description to police of what her alleged assailant had worn. Hours after the shooting, a canine unit sniffed shoe prints in Holder Park and reported that the dog had tracked a scent to a nearby intersection right next to a house that belonged to one of Crosley's sisters, Tina. Tim Curtis told police that he had seen Crosley at Tina's house when he was jogging that afternoon. Tim also told investigators that he thought the police sketch did in fact look like Crosley Green. After Kim Halleck pointed to

Crosley in a photo lineup, police secured a warrant for his arrest. Crosley's name and photo were released in news reports on April 7, 1989, as the suspect in Chip Flynn's murder, the same day as Chip's funeral. But before police could arrest Crosley, he left the state, kicking off a nationwide search. But did you know the police were looking for you? Of course. Of course. What else could I do police were looking for you? Of course. Of course. What am I supposed to do? Turn yourself in? Oh no. Oh no. Oh no.

I don't get along with them people down there. My family don't get along with the law enforcement down there. We have had run-ins. Leaving the area certainly made Crosley Green look guilty. Two months later, an anonymous caller tipped off police that Crosley had returned to Brevard County. And Crosley was arrested on June 8th, a little over two months after Chip's death. This is Crosley's original police interview.

It's an archival recording from 1989. Crosley is sometimes difficult to understand, and there are background noises later that sound like tapping. You've got a hard fellow to find. Have I? Yeah. They read Crosley his Miranda rights. All right, Mr. Green, this reads as follows.

I, Crosley Alexander Green, have been advised and have had explained to me my constitutional rights as follows. Okay, and they are, number one, I have the right to remain silent. Do you understand that? Yeah. And the charges. You're accused of robbing two white kids, a boy and a girl, up behind your sister Tina's house at Holden Park, as you know. And tying this young man up and driving his truck on up to the Grove and Mims and taking the girl out of the truck. And as you know, she sort of struggled a little bit and tried to run away from you.

Ran around the tailgate of the truck, in fact. And then he got out shooting. And you know what we don't understand, all along he had the gun, even though his hands were tied. He couldn't shoot at you because she was sitting between the two of you, as you know. And when the shooting started, she got in the truck and put the haul ass on him. And of course, he shows up dead, and you're accused of doing that.

Listening to the recording, I'm struck by how often the officer describes the crime and then adds, as you know, speaking as if he was sure Crosley was guilty. But as far as Crosley was concerned, this had nothing to do with him. It's hard to hear clearly, but Crosley was insisting, I didn't do it. And I'm sad I didn't do nothing. It's hard to hear clearly, but Crosley was insisting, I didn't do it. I'm saying, I didn't do nothing. But at this point, things were not looking good for Crosley. Everything seemed to be aligning against him, perhaps a little too perfectly. But upon closer examination of the evidence, a different picture was emerging. The question was whether this new perspective would come to light at trial. On the next episode of Murder in the Orange Grove,

the troubled case against Crosley Green. I believed Crosley Green. I said, there's no jury in the world that's going to convict him based on these facts. Murder in the Orange Grove was reported by me, Erin Moriarty, alongside producers Alan Pang, Annie Cronenberg, and Allison Bailey. Kiara Norbitz is our coordinating producer, and Florence Burrow-Adams is our story editor. Additional production support from Dylan Gordon, Marlon Polycarp, Caroline Casey, and Christine Driscoll.

Judy Tigart is the executive producer of 48 Hours. Thank you. Associate producers were Michael Loftus and Shaheen Toki. Patti Aronofsky was the senior producer. Special thanks to Megan Marcus, Jamie Benson, Nick Poser, and Gail Spruill. If you like Murder in the Orange Grove, the troubled case against Crosley Green, you can listen to the next episode one week early and ad-free by joining 48 Hours Plus on Apple Podcasts or Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.