Murder: True Crime Stories - SOLVED: The Pickaxe Murders 1

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

In 1983, 27-year-old Jerry Dean was newly single and looking for a little fun. When he met 32-year-old Deborah Thornton at a pool party that summer, she seemed to have the same idea. But what should��ve been a simple one-night stand ended in a brutal double murder. Murder: True Crime Stories is a Crime House Original. For more, follow us on all social media, @crimehouse To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Crime House. We've all held a grudge at one point or another. Whether it's a minor spat or a years-long feud, sometimes it's just hard to let things go. Most of the time, the people involved can find a way to avoid one another, or at least be civil when they have to interact. But not everyone is willing to put their differences aside and move on, and occasionally, even the pettiest disagreements can snowball into something awful. In 1983, a lasting grudge between 27-year-old Jerry Lindeen and 23-year-old Carla Faye Tucker reached a chilling conclusion.

Instead of talking things through, Jerry and Carla turned to violence to solve their problems. By the time the dust settled, one of the most savage murders in Texas history had been committed. People's lives are like a story. There's a beginning, a middle, and an end. But you don't always know which part you're on. Sometimes the final chapter arrives far too soon and we don't always get to know the real ending. I'm Carter Roy, and this is Murder True Crime Stories, a Crime House Original. Every Tuesday, I'll explore the story of a notorious murder or murders.

I'll be bringing awareness to stories that need to be heard, with a focus on those who are impacted. And for more True Crime Stories that all happened this week in history, check out Crime House, the show. Each episode covers multiple cases, unified by the same theme. So every week you get something a little different. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community for making this possible.

Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Murder True Crime Stories wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters. And for ad free and early access to Murder True Crime Stories, plus exciting Crime House bonus content, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple podcasts. This is the first of two episodes on the murders of 27 year old Jerry Lindeen and 32-year-old Deborah Thornton, who were killed in 1983 after a one-night stand.

Today I'll introduce you to Jerry and Deborah and explain how their unplanned fling turned into a savage double murder. I'll discuss the initial investigation and explain how detectives followed a trail of violence all the way to a likely suspect. Next time, I'll take you along as detectives narrow in on someone with a vendetta against Jerry and discuss a spiritual transformation on Death Row that shocked the nation.

All that and more coming up. I've got some exciting news. Crime House Studios is launching a new original show called Killer Minds. Hosted by licensed forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels and Crime House's Vanessa Richardson, each episode features a deep dive into the psychology of a notorious murderer. From serial killers to cult leaders, deadly exes, and spree killers. Killer Minds is a Crime House Studios original. New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Follow wherever you get your podcasts.

With the Fizz loyalty program you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at Fizz.ca. Okay, Martin. Let's try one. Remember, big. You got it. The Ford It's a Big Deal event is on. How's that? Little bigger. The Ford It's a Big Deal event. Nice. Now the offer?

Lease a 2025 Escape Active All-Wheel Drive from 198 bi-weekly at 1.99% APR for 36 months with $27.55 down. Wow! That's like $99 a week! Yeah, it's a big deal. The Ford It's a Big Deal event. Visit your Toronto area Ford store or Ford.ca today. In 1974, Houston, Texas emerged as the winner of an oil crisis that had wreaked havoc on the United States. Suddenly the city was a hot spot of economic activity as it produced tens of thousands of barrels of petroleum a day. With the oil industry booming, Houston was thriving and a lot of people wanted in on the action. Over the next few years, the area saw immense growth and by 1980, the population skyrocketed

to 1.6 million. One of the people who made their way to the region was Jerry Lindeen. While there isn't much information out there about Jerry, we know he was born on May 31, 1956 in Smith County, Texas, about 200 miles north of Houston. He was the youngest of three boys, and they all spent time serving in different branches of the United States military. Eventually, Jerry moved down to the Houston area and found work as a mechanic and technician. By the early 80s, he was installing burglary alarms for a security company. When he wasn't working, Jerry spent his free time obsessing over motorcycles. Riding them, fixing them, even building them, Jerry loved it all. According to

reports, Jerry was involved in the local biker scene and may have been a member of one of the city's motorcycle clubs. But bikes weren't the only thing Jerry fell in love with in H-Town. Again, the timeline is vague, but at some point after settling down in the city, Jerry met a woman named Shawn Jackson. We don't know her age or what she did for work, but she seemed to have a thing for bikers. And Jerry, with his long brown hair and handlebar mustache,

was exactly her type. By 1981, Shawn and 25-year-old Jerry were hot and heavy and very much together. But things weren't all sunshine and rainbows between them. Jerry was very jealous and possessive of Shawn. He wanted to know where she was at all times. If she refused to tell him, or he thought she was lying, he'd get abusive. But his violence didn't just extend to Shawn. It also affected someone she spent a lot of time with. Her roommate and best friend, 21-year-old Carla Faye Tucker.

From the moment they met, Jerry hated Carla, and she felt the same way about him. Apparently, Carla didn't think Jerry deserved to be with her best friend. In her eyes, he was a spineless nobody, but Jerry thought Carla was the one who was pathetic. Soon Jerry and Carla were at each other's throats, tossing around insults and looking to stir the pot, and Jerry knew exactly how to push Carla's buttons. One day in 1981 or 1982, he decided to fix up his beloved Harley-Davidson in the middle of Carla and Shawn's living room. Carla came home from work to find the place littered with bike parts and repair equipment. She watched in horror as oil leaked onto the carpet.

She watched in horror as oil leaked onto the carpet. After that, she chased Jerry out of the apartment. But Jerry's little stunt wasn't enough for Shawn to consider leaving him. Their relationship was undeniably toxic, and whenever Jerry acted out, Shawn only looked for ways to appease him. And by 1983, she was ready to show Jerry he was the most important person in her life. That February, Shawn and 27-year-old Jerry got married. But even tying the knot wasn't enough to quell Jerry's anger. If Jerry thought getting hitched meant he wouldn't have to see Carla anymore, he was sorely mistaken. Although he and Shawn were married, it seems like Shawn continued living with Carla, which

meant it just wasn't possible for Jerry to avoid her altogether. And soon the tension between him and Carla trickled into his marriage with Sean, especially when she and Carla decided to go follow their favorite rock bands around the country, leaving Jerry alone. In Jerry's mind, Sean wasn't the ringleader of these adventures. Carla was, and she wanted to steal Sean away from him. Jerry continued to stew on it, and eventually, he came to a decision. It was time to teach Carla where it hurt. One way to do that was to destroy her memories. One day that spring, Jerry went over to Sean and Carla's place and found Carla's photo

collection. He took a knife and scratched out the images, including a photo of Carla and her dead mother, supposedly the only one she had of them together. It devastated Carla. But she wasn't ready to fight back just yet, because it seemed like Jerry might not be in her life for that much longer. Every so often, Shawn would come to Carla after a fight with Jerry and say she was finally going to leave him. Only she never did. It was a vicious cycle that

always ended with Shawn going back to Jerry. But one afternoon that May, not long after Jerry destroyed Carla's pictures, something snapped inside Sean. That month, after another fight, Sean stole Jerry's debit card and went on a shopping spree with Carla. When Jerry realized Sean had spent $460 of his money, he was livid. He flew off the handle and hit Sean, breaking her nose and busting her lip. It was the final straw for her. After only five months of marriage, she'd had enough of Jerry.

She left him, this time for good. As for Jerry, well, he thought Carla convinced Sean to take his debit card and go shopping, which meant she was the real reason behind his split from Sean, and he wasn't about to let her get away with it. Soon Jerry came up with a plan, and this time he did want to hurt her. Whatever it took to make Carla think twice about messing with Jerry Lindeen again. His idea was to have someone shoot a flare gun into Carla's face. This way she'd have to live the rest of her life with a scarred and disfigured face. Rumors began to circulate through the biker community that some people

were thinking about doing it for him. Still, tensions between the trio continued to rise. By June, they were all looking to take the edge off through drugs and alcohol. And no one needed to blow off steam more than Sean, who was still struggling to put her rocky marriage behind her. And Carla knew just how to get Sean's mind off of Jerry. On the weekend of June 11, 1983, Carla hosted a birthday party, presumably at their house for her sister, Carrie. But this wasn't just a small get-together, it was a three-day bender. And they weren't the only ones letting their hair down that weekend. Jerry went to a party of his own. Drunk and looking to forget about Sean, he met a married woman looking for a little fun.

But what started out as a way to drown out his problems quickly turned into something much more dangerous. Alright, let's take a step back for a second because today I've got something a little different to share with you. Now look, I know true crime can be intense, dark, and pretty heavy. And trust me, I can binge these stories as much as you can. So sometimes you just need something to balance things out, to help clear your mind. And with that in mind, I've invited someone into the studio today, Gemma Spagg, host of the new open mind podcast, Mantra.

Hey Gemma, how you doing? Hey, Codd, I'm doing well, how are you? Oh, I'm good, thanks. Thanks for being here. Can you tell us a little about your show and for any murder true crime story listeners who haven't tuned in yet what they might expect from mantra. Of course, I think that mantra and murder true crime stories

are actually the unlikely match made in heaven. Okay. Like if you're going to listen to a lot of true crime, you've got to get something again to balance you out. So essentially, mantra is a weekly podcast where I share a powerful phrase to kind of ground you and bring you through the week. So whether it is I cultivate peace within, I create space for my inner child to feel loved, I make the best decisions with what I know now, we have so many. And with that mantra, we explore the wisdom behind it, the reflections, personal stories, and also practical insights, so that you can feel more intentional throughout the week, more connected to yourself.

No matter what's going on in your lives, no matter what you're listening to, no matter what you're absorbing, you can come back to mantra and feel a sense of peace. Totally. And for listeners out there, one of the things I love about mantra is like, I'm pretty attention and all over the place. and feel a sense of peace. Totally. And for listeners out there, one of the things I love about mantra is like,

I'm pretty attention and all over the place. And so sometimes I need an anchor. And one of the things I love about mantra is, it's not just the same mantra. Like I might have somebody teach me something about being grounded, but then I get bored with that. And then I wander off. And with mantra, when I listen, it's like, oh yeah,

it's always something new. So I'm both coming back into myself, but also exploring something new, which keeps my intention. And I think you're right, it's such a great match for murder true crime stuff, because I've done a lot of murder podcasts, and one of the things you kind of see is,

obviously these are people who have spun out in really dark ways, but it kind of helps me recognize, oh, we're all capable of spinning out, and where can I put the brakes on that in my life? And given the pace of the modern world, I can't get enough. Oh, absolutely. And honestly, I don't share this all the time, but most of the time the mantras I end up choosing

are just reminders that I need for myself to like stay mentally stable and grounded because life can be really messy and overwhelming. And I think people don't always wanna hear from a self-help guru who's like going to claim to have it all together. So we definitely don't do any of that over there. It's very vulnerable, but it's also something very simple and practical to lean on that hopefully makes a big difference.

Oh, fantastic. Yes. Well, thank you for stopping by and sharing mantra with our listeners today. It's been great talking with you and For everyone listening make sure you stick around until the end of the episode. We've got a special clip from mantra Hey everyone, it's Carter with an exciting update Crime house studios is launching a new original show called killer minds hosted by licensed forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan

Engels and crime house's Vanessa Richardson, each episode of Killer Minds features a deep dive into the psychology of a notorious murderer, from infamous serial killers to ruthless cult leaders, deadly exes, and terrifying spree killers. Along with Vanessa's immersive storytelling full of high stakes twists and turns, Dr. Engels will be providing expert analysis of the people involved. Not just how they killed, but why. Killer Minds is a Crime House Studios original. New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday.

Follow wherever you get your podcasts. Throughout the first half of 1983, 27-year-old mechanic and biker Jerry Lynn Dean was in a tumultuous and abusive relationship with his wife, Sean. Things continued to unravel and in early June, Sean broke things off with Jerry after he left her battered and bruised. They didn't officially get divorced, but they definitely weren't together anymore. And it wasn't long before they were both looking to forget about their toxic relationship and cut loose.

Shawn headed to a party with her roommate and best friend 23-year-old Carla Faye Tucker. Meanwhile, Jerry attended a different party that same day, June 12th. As he made his way through the crowd, Jerry spotted a gorgeous blonde woman. He approached her and introduced himself. He learned her name was Deborah Ruth Thornton. Unlike Jerry, 32-year-old Deborah wasn't a Texas native. She was born in Columbus, Ohio in May 1951 to parents William Gerald List and Harriet Bailey. And sadly, Deborah's childhood was anything but happy. In 1959, when she was eight, William was convicted of molesting several young boys. With William behind bars for something so

awful, Harriet decided to divorce him. Before long, she met and fell in love with a Korean war vet named Homer Carlson. Homer seemed like a pretty good father figure and adopted Deborah and her brother as his own. She even took his last name. But the world was a cruel place. Debra only enjoyed a few years of stability before her mother passed away in 1963. Debra was 12. For a little while she remained in her adoptive father's care. But soon she got curious about her biological dad, William.

By then, he was paroled and had moved to the Houston area. It's not clear who reached out first, but eventually, Deborah reconnected with William. She was pleasantly surprised to learn he'd really turned his life around. After landing in Houston, William had created a successful trailer manufacturing company. It was doing so well, William was making millions. He used the money to build himself a huge mansion. When Deborah found out how William was living, she told her brother Ron. After thinking it over, they decided to follow their dad to Houston, and he seemed pretty receptive to being reunited with his children.

Before long, Deborah and Ron were both working for William and carving out their own lives in the city. Deborah started to make friends and meet people. Soon she was dating a man named Louis Davis III. In 1970, when she was 18, they got married and had a son together. But just when it seemed like things were looking up for Deborah, her family's past came back to haunt her. Rumors swirled about her father. People around town whispered that William was picking up teenage boys and taking them back to his mansion to sexually abuse them. It's not clear if there was any truth to these allegations, but the thought alone was

upsetting enough for Deborah and Ron to cut William out of their lives again. Sadly, life didn't get any easier for Deborah after that. The rest of the 1970s ebbed and flowed. Although she was able to find work as a bookkeeper for a mortgage company, her personal life was going up in flames. Sometime in the late 1970s, she and Lewis divorced. However, Deborah wasn't on her own for long before she met someone else. In May 1981, 30-year-old Deborah married a man named Richard Thornton, but it wasn't the

healthiest relationship. Richard and Deborah were constantly fighting, and in the summer of 1983, things got especially heated. On June 12, they had an explosive argument, and Richard asked Deborah to leave for the day. She agreed to go. But Deborah wasn't one to sit around and mope. If Richard wanted her out, well, she'd just go ahead and have fun without him.

It's not clear who was hosting the party or how Deborah knew them, but somehow she ended up at the same pool party as 27-year-old Jerry Lynn Dean. Jerry and Deborah clicked instantly. They flirted throughout the afternoon and into the evening. We don't know what they talked about exactly. Maybe they aired out their frustrations about their partners, or maybe they kept the conversation light. Whatever they bonded over, the sparks between them were definitely flying.

As people trickled out and the party came to an end, Jerry asked Debra if she wanted to come back to his place. She said yes. Neither of them had any idea what the night had in store. The following morning, June 13th, was a Monday and Jerry had an early shift. Usually he gave his friend and co-worker, 26-year-old Gregory Scott Travers, a ride to work. That day, Gregory waited in front of his house for Jerry to show up.

But by 6.40am, Jerry wasn't there, which was unusual. Jerry knew they had to be at work by 7, and he was normally on time. But by 6.50, Jerry was still nowhere to be found, and Gregory was getting nervous. Jerry's place was just a two-minute walk away, so Gregory decided to go over there and check on his friend. As soon as he approached Jerry's apartment building, Gregory could tell something was wrong. Jerry's Chevy El Camino was usually parked out front, but today it seemed to be missing.

It was strange, but Gregory assumed Jerry had a simple explanation. He continued on into the building and knocked on Jerry's front door. Oddly enough, it creaked open. It had been left unlocked. Gregory slowly stepped inside and called out to Jerry over the blaring rock and roll music that was playing on the radio. He got no response. As he made his way into the living room, Gregory noticed Jerry's Harley Davidson was also

missing. The last time he'd been here, various parts had been scattered around the room. Now all Gregory saw was an empty wooden stand where the bike used to be. Again, it was odd. But surely Jerry had a reason for moving the bike? If only Gregory could talk to Jerry and find out what was going on. He continued on, shouting Jerry's name over and over as he walked to the main bedroom. Gregory peeked inside, but again, it was empty.

Next Gregory tried the spare bedroom, and that's when he let out a sigh of relief. Jerry was in bed, sleeping. But the closer Gregory looked, the more confused he became. Instead of lying with his head on the pillow, Jerry was turned around, with his upper body dangling over the foot of the bed. And that wasn't the only strange thing about him. When Gregory got a better look, he saw Jerry was covered in blood. He wasn't moving, and he wasn't alone. Lying next to Jerry was a woman Gregory had never seen before. Later, he'd learned she was Deborah Ruth Thornton. Gregory's eyes went wide with horror as he took in her lifeless body and the strange object sticking out of her chest.

That's when Gregory realized it was a pickaxe lodged directly into her heart. Whenever a homicide happens, two questions immediately come to mind. Who did this and why? And sometimes the answer to those questions can be found in the where. Where the crime happened. I'm journalist Sloane Glass, and I host the new podcast, American Homicide. Each week, we'll explore some of this country's most infamous and mysterious murders. And you'll learn how the location of the crime became a character in the story. On American Homicide, we'll go coast to coast and visit places like the wide open New Mexico desert, the swampy Louisiana bayou,

and the frozen Alaska wilderness. And we'll learn how each region of the country holds deadly secrets. So join me, Sloane Glass, on the new true crime podcast, American Homicide. Listen to American Homicide on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. At around 7am on June 13, 1983, Gregory Scott Travers made a horrific discovery. His friend and co-worker, 27-year-old Jerry Lindeen, had been brutally murdered alongside 32-year-old Deborah Ruth Thornton.

After the horror subsided, Gregory ran back to his apartment and called the police. Houston law enforcement rushed to Jerry's apartment. Like Gregory, they were shocked by the bloodbath in his spare bedroom. But something else stuck out to them. Jerry's apartment was a total mess. Police couldn't figure out if this was always how Jerry lived, or if whoever had killed him and Debra had ransacked the place. Beyond that, the only thing they knew for certain was what had killed them. The pickaxe was removed from Debra's body and placed aside

as evidence. Then she and Jerry were transported to the coroner for autopsy. As detectives searched the crime scene for more evidence, they started thinking maybe this was a robbery gone wrong. Besides the state of the apartment, Jerry and Debra's wallets were nowhere to be found. Plus, Gregory had explained that both Jerry's car and motorcycle were missing. Officers wondered if one or maybe two people had barged inside to rob Jerry. Then when Jerry realized what they were doing, he tried to fight back and he and Debra were killed in the process. But the more detectives looked around, the less certain they were. Given how brutal the murders were, this seemed more personal than a simple burglary, and the autopsy

report only furthered those suspicions. Along with blunt force trauma to the head, Jerry had been stabbed a staggering 28 times. Deborah also had trauma to the head and several puncture wounds. It's possible she was already dead when she was struck with a pickaxe. Clearly this was a case of overkill. To investigators, it seemed like the murderer was trying to send a message. The only question was, what were they trying to say? Over the next few days, detectives continued to scour the crime scene for evidence, but

nothing they found led them any closer to a suspect or suspects, which meant it was time to look at the victim's personal lives. They decided to start with Deborah's husband, 33-year-old Richard Thornton. Detectives theorized that when Richard found out Deborah was cheating on him, he flew into a blind rage, killing Deborah and Jerry. But when they brought Richard into the station for questioning, he was an open book. He admitted that he and Deborah were having their ups and downs, and that they'd gotten into a bad fight right before Deborah went to the pool party.

He said he had no idea who Jerry was, or that Deborah had even been unfaithful. As for where he was on the night of June 12th, Richard told detectives he was at home with their kids, his daughter and Deborah's son from her previous marriage. Investigators dug into his story and confirmed his alibi. With that, Richard was eliminated as a suspect. But while Richard may not have been a jealous husband, there was someone else in Deborah's life with a questionable past. Her estranged father, William List. Detectives looked into William and learned he was a registered sex offender. More than that, they found out he was in hot water for another crime. He was currently being investigated by the IRS for tax evasion, and his daughter Deborah

was supposed to testify against him. To detectives, it was a clear motive for William to have killed Debra. Maybe he didn't actually murder her, but he was certainly rich enough to hire someone to do it for him. William was brought in for questioning and denied having any involvement in Debra and Jerry's murders. But considering the situation, detectives weren't ready to cross Williams name off the suspects list. So

for the next several weeks they kept tabs on him. Of course they weren't only looking into Deborah's history. Detectives knew the killer or killers could have been someone Jerry knew. After all, Jerry was involved with the Houston motorcycle scene. Maybe he got into a fight with another biker. That would explain why his Harley was missing. But as detectives began questioning Jerry's friends and associates, they noticed a common thread. Everyone they spoke to said Jerry did have one enemy, and it wasn't a fellow biker. It was his ex-wife's best friend, 23-year-old Carla Faye Tucker. With each passing day, Carla's name continued to pop up, and always in the same context

that she and Jerry hated each other. Police learned about all the bad blood between them, from the oil stains Jerry left on her carpet to the scratched out photographs. They also found out that once, Carla had even punched Jerry in the face and broken his glasses. It was so bad, Jerry had to go to the hospital to get Sharge removed from his eye. As the evidence against Carla continued to pile up, investigators couldn't deny it. She wasn't above hurting Jerry. But now the question was, could she be capable of murder? Thanks so much for listening. I'm Carter Roy and this is Murder True Crime Stories.

Come back next week for part two of our series on Jerry Lindeen and Deborah Ruth Thornton. Murder True Crime Stories is a Crime Houseouse original powered by Pave Studios. Here at CrimeHouse, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media, at CrimeHouse on TikTok and Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Murder True Crime Stories wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

And for ad-free and early access to Murder True Crime Stories, plus exciting Crime House bonus content, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. We'll be back next Tuesday. Murder True Crime Stories is hosted by me, Carter Roy, and is a crime house original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Murder True Crime Stories team Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benadon, Natalie Pertsofsky, Laurie Marinelli, Sarah Camp, Joe Guerra, Beth Johnson, and Russell Nash. Thank you for listening.

And now we've got a clip from Mantra with Gemma Spag. If you want to hear the full episode, and trust me, you do, just search for mantra that's M-A-N-T-R-A, wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get into today's mantra. Today we're talking all about releasing the need to do it all. This mantra has been an important one for me for a while, I would say for at least the past two years. A very similar mantra I often repeat to myself is I can do it all eventually, just not all

at once. But to me, this week's mantra, I release the need to do it all, has a couple of meanings. The first meaning is being able to accept help and pushing back against perhaps a natural urge for hyperindependence. The second meaning is the one I really want to focus on and it's about being selective, valuing quality experiences over quantity, valuing the quality of achievements over quantity, allowing yourself to just sink deep into one or two things that you really care about rather than being a jack of all trades and a master of none, to use that saying. Essentially, when I hear the mantra, I release the need to do it all. I also feel permission

to slow down and be happy with what I have and what I am capable of. Let's roll it back though. Where did this idea of having to do it all in order for your life to be worthwhile come from and how is it hurting us? I believe the notion that we have to do it all has a few origins. The first is that as society has grown and progressed, we can now see more of what's available in the world, we have more flavors to choose from and we just kind of can't bear the idea of restricting ourselves. I always think of Sylvia Plath's very famous fake tree analogy about sitting at the base of a tree, seeing

these branches extending above you, each containing a fig or a metaphor for life, for a life that you could choose, one that you might deeply desire. To be an artist, to be someone climbing the career ladder, to be a parent, to be a free thinker, to be a traveler, this, that, all these different lives, knowing that in some ways you are not able to live them all. You have to choose one. I think that's a myth. I don't think you have to choose one,

but we'll get to why I think that eventually. Essentially, that's the first to why I think that eventually. Essentially, that's the first reason why I feel we need to do it all. We feel like we don't want to miss out. And I think that fear of missing out also has an element of social comparison to it. Of course, we see what other people are doing and how successful they are and how they're able to juggle all these things, and we panic. We think, shouldn't I be doing more? Shouldn't I be in more places? Shouldn't I have more to say for myself? Another reason I think this comes down to is our obsession with success and how our achievements have become very much tied and connected to our self-worth,

often creating very unrealistic standards for what we can and do hope to achieve. Evidence to me of this is like the rise of hustle culture, the rise of the wonderkind, people who were young and successful, Forbes under 30 life achievement awards all given out to people who Seemingly do it all have it all balance it all Let me just say this Humans were not meant to hustle the way we do now. They were meant to just experience life and be present Eat some berries make some friends, sit around a fire, explore nature.

But in, and I would say specifically the last 300 years, society has become a lot more focused on your output, what you can say you've done and how seemingly impressive that is to others and how this has become almost symbolic of having a deeper meaning in life. Accomplishment is the meaning of life. That's what the need to do it all would tell you. For me, I actually think it's slowing down and being present and really feeling what you have chosen to focus on.

As a result of this rise in the need to do it all, I think we've also become a lot more individualistic. Our accomplishments are for us and us only. There's less focus on community, on the people who have assisted us in getting there, and there's definitely more shame in asking for help because we are scared. That may make us look less capable or more vulnerable. definitely more shame in asking for help because we are scared. That may make us look less capable or more vulnerable.

There is one specific kind of person I believe the need to do it all hurts the most, and it is the type A overachievers, the individual who has been taught that accomplishment is the defining part of your personality, who from an early age has put a lot into good grades and a great resume and extracurriculars. Many overachievers develop this mindset really early on, often as a response to, I would say, high parental expectations, a need for validation or a desire to prove their worth, maybe even low self-esteem.

They don't like themselves, they don't feel accepted, they don't feel loved. And so they say to themselves, if I just do more, people will admire me and therefore they will like me. Perfectionism as well and a fear of failure also play a major role, feels like anything but excellence and a massive list of all the things you've done is unacceptable. I think we're also driven by this internal need for control. Believing that if we work hard enough,

if we don't ask for help, we can prevent disappointment or rejection. We can feel like our life is worth more. What does this lead to? Well, I think ambition and high standards are amazing things and they can lead to great success and great achievement and maybe yes, a sense of purpose, but it can also come at a cost.

The cost being your mental wellbeing, stress, burnout, and difficulty enjoying the present moment. Let's focus on this for a second because I think it's an element of doing it all that we don't talk about enough. If your self-worth and your concept is tied to how much you can do, accomplish, see how much you can push yourself, you're always thinking about the next big thing. And once you're there, it kind of becomes worthless to you because it's just a checkbox. And I've seen this with athletes, people who travel for a living, who just check off

the countries to say they've been rather than actually enjoying the trip, famous musicians, people early on in their careers trying to just do as much as they can to say they did it, to say, look, I'm worthy. And I just feel like in those moments, a lot of people will tell you, I was living this life of success. I didn't enjoy any of it because it was just a checkbox. There was nothing more.

There was no substance to what I was experiencing. And like I said, it leads to burnout, less enjoyment of life for sure, but it can also create a really profound sense of emptiness and a sense of, you know, who am I if I'm not the best or doing the most? What if you get sick? What if you need a day off? If you're someone who needs to do it all and not accept help and have all these accomplishments,

those moments of necessary rest are unthinkable. Let me maybe just offer you an alternative. What would happen if we became selective and intentional about what we choose to do? What if we became quality people and ignored, as much as we could, the pressure of appearances? This is what I would imagine it looks like. It would look like a life lived with purpose rather than pressure. Instead of stretching ourself thin across endless commitments, we would be able to carefully choose where to direct our energy. We would be able to invest deeply in the things that matter.

We would be happier, I'm assuming. We would be more present. We would be, I think, actually more purposeful because we really care deeply about something rather than being half engaged in a million things. Being a quality person, to put it really simply means prioritizing depth over breadth, not chasing every opportunity, and most importantly, allowing for rest and reflection and knowing that that is just as valuable as action. Reflecting on this topic, I think it can feel stressful

because it goes against a lot of maybe what you've been taught to believe about your worth and it challenges you to really rethink some deeply ingrained beliefs about self-worth and self-reliance. But recognizing we don't have to do it all, when you fully embrace that philosophy, it's very liberating, and I think it's also essential for our well-being. Coming up, let's get personal. I'll open up about how releasing the need to do it all has not been a one-time decision for me, but an ongoing

journey. One of adjusting and learning and repeating to myself and worth more than my accomplishments. If I'm being honest, I'm still kind of stumbling along the way, but we will talk about all of that and more. Stay tuned. I'll be right back after this brief pause. The Crime House Original Podcast. New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Follow wherever you get your podcasts.