Murder: True Crime Stories - SPECIAL: Laci Peterson 1 with Dr. Tristin Engels

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

Join us for the first of two special episodes on the murder of Laci Peterson, featuring Dr. Tristin Engels of the Crime House Original Podcast Mind of a Serial Killer. The murder of Laci Peterson is one of the most sensational stories of the 21st century. As Carter takes you through Scott and Laci Petersons' marriage and Laci's chilling disappearance, Dr. Engels offers expert analysis into the psychology of all involved with one of the world's most infamous murder cases. Murder: True Crime Stories is a Crime House Original. For more, follow us on Tiktok and Instagram @crimehouse and check out Mind of a Serial Killer on Apple and Spotify. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Crime House. Some couples just seem like they're meant for each other. That was the case with Lacey and Scott Peterson. From the outside, they seem like the ideal couple. Happy, in love, and totally dedicated to each other. But behind closed doors, the Petersons' perfect life was a mirage. And by the time their problems came to light, it was too late. Because on Christmas Eve 2002, Lacey Peterson disappeared from her home without a trace.

In 2002, Lacey Peterson disappeared from her home without a trace. As the media latched onto the case, it became clear that Scott wasn't happy with his marriage, which made everyone wonder, how far would he go to end it? People's lives are like a story. There's a beginning, a middle, and an end. But you don't always know which part you're on. Sometimes the final chapter arrives far too soon, and we don't always get to know the real ending. I'm Carter Roy, and this is Murder True Crime Stories, a Crime House Original.

Every Tuesday, I'll explore the story of a notorious murder or murders. I'll be bringing awareness to stories that need to be heard with a focus on those who are impacted. For the next two episodes, we'll be covering one of the most notorious murder cases in recent history, the death of Lacey Peterson. And because this story involves such intense psychological aspects, I'll be joined by a special guest, Dr. Tristan Engels, a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist and the co-host of our fellow CrimeHouse show, Mind of a Serial Killer.

And if you haven't listened to Mind of a Serial Killer before, I cannot recommend it enough, I am a weekly listener. And like the title suggests, it's a fascinating exploration into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers. Dr. Engels, the insight you provide into their psychology is just so fascinating, and I can't wait to do these next two episodes with you. Oh thanks so much Carter. I'm thrilled to be joining you. Just like I do in Mind of a Serial Killer, I'll be providing psychological analysis of the story's key figures while Carter takes you through the story. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following

Murder True Crime Stories wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters. And to enhance your Murder True Crime Stories listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad-free, and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting bonus content. Today, Dr. Engels and I will be exploring how Lacey Peterson and her husband Scott met, the events leading up to her disappearance, and how the initial investigation turned from a missing person case to a homicide.

Next time in part 2, we'll follow the investigation into Lacey's murder, how Scott Peterson became the prime suspect, and the latest updates from where the case is now. All that and more coming up. Better Man, now playing in select theaters. This is the story of Lacey Peterson. Her life, her disappearance, and her murder. But to understand the complexity of her case, we also have to examine the story of the man who was accused of killing her. Scott Peterson was born in October 1972 in San Diego, California. His parents, Lee and Jackie, had five children from previous marriages. Scott was the one

child they had together and the baby of the family. Naturally they coddled and doted on him. There's nothing out of the ordinary about parents babying the youngest child in a family. Ask almost any older brother or sister, and they'll tell you that their younger sibling always had it easier. But in Scott's case, he may have had it too easy. There's something called the birth order theory that was identified by Alfred Adler. His theory suggests that children are perceived and treated differently in relation to their order of birth,

and this can in turn affect their development and their personality. Scott is the youngest. According to the birth order theory, the youngest child is often more spoiled, used to getting what they want, they're often more attention seeking, and in some ways more manipulative as they learn effective ways to compete with their older siblings to get what they want.

That can also cause ego fragility as well. They likely struggle when they're told no or aren't the sole focus of attention, which usually begins showing itself at school with their teacher since the teacher's attention needs to be shared among other students and this is the first time they're experiencing that. That being said, there are also so many confounding variables to each family, much like Scott's family, so the research on this shows inconsistency on birth order because of those variables. Scott, for example, has a blended family, and he's the only biological child of his

parents. In this family dynamic, I would expect to see more competition, rivalry, resentment, and differences in loyalty, or even lack of acceptance from his siblings. The parents are also more likely to be protective of Scott because he is the only biological child, which separates him in some ways from the other children. And this just adds to the complexity among siblings

because it causes a perception of favoritism. And in this case, whatever factors contributed to Scott's personality, he did have his parents' overwhelming support. Scott was free to pursue his dreams. Come high school, that dream was to become a pro golfer. By the time he graduated, he was one of the top junior golfers in San Diego.

Scott's coach said he was a popular teammate and a leader. But according to one of his teammates, he was stuck up and always bragging about how much better he was than everyone else. Regardless of how Scott interacted with his teammates, he was good enough to be offered a partial golf scholarship to Arizona State University. When he got there, it quickly became clear that Scott still had a lot of room to improve. But instead of focusing on his game, Scott succumbed to the temptations of college life and that got him in trouble.

Shortly after arriving at ASU, Scott took a visiting high school golf recruit out to a party. He got the recruit drunk, and when the recruits father found out, he complained to Scott's coach. Scott got kicked off the ASU golf team before the season even started.

So describing him as stuck up and always bragging kind of symbolizes maybe some ego fragility, like I mentioned earlier, when it comes to younger children. But I'm really curious how he handled being kicked off the team. Was he shocked, devastated? More importantly, how this happened though isn't necessarily alarming.

A lot of new adults who go off to college participate in partying, and they make poor judgments. And with Scott, it's not an established pattern of behavior that we know of, at least so far. This seems like an air of judgment, possibly due to pressures of being in college, or simply because he's used to getting his way. But more interestingly, though, as the youngest child who is likely feeling in constant competition with his siblings to be cool, he's now the college student that the high school recruit is looking up to. He's the cool one now.

So there's a power dynamic shift for him and this air and judgment could also be partly influenced by a desire to lean into that power. And to your point, I think what happens when you start to feel adult consequences from a mistake, it's really about how you react afterward. Exactly. And that's what's interesting with Scott is like, okay, this major life thing happens. Now, do you change your behavior or do you double down? Exactly. You're right. I mean, it's like a rite of passage too. I would not pathologize partying in college unless of course it's becoming

out of hand and it's affecting them legally and socially and academically. Then we're looking at maybe a problem, but this isn't necessarily alarming to me. To his credit, he did seem to learn from the experience. After he got kicked off the ASU golf team, he transferred to a community college in San Luis Obispo, California, where he played for the next two years. So after finding his footing, Scott enrolled at California Polytechnic State University in San Luis Obispo, better known as Cal Poly.

He finally seemed ready to leave golf behind, and he majored in agricultural business. At least one professor described him as a model student. While he was at Cal Poly, Scott also worked at a restaurant about 20 minutes away from campus called Pacific Cafe. And it was there in 1994 that he got to know 19-year-old Lacey Rocha. Lacey was a fellow student at Cal Poly. She grew up on a farm just 12 miles outside of Modesto, a city located in the heart of California's

Central Valley. Her parents, Sharon and Dennis, divorced when Lacey was two. From then on, Lacey split time between her father's 365 acre ranch and her mother's home in Modesto. She loved gardening with her mom during the week, then exploring her father's ranch on the weekends. Both her parents eventually remarried, although Lacey had a much closer relationship with her stepfather than her stepmother. Shortly after the divorce, Lacey's mom began dating a man named Ron Gransky, who treated Lacey like his own child. He even had his own nickname for her, Jabberjaws. He said it was because Lacey liked to talk so much. Lacey was charming, outgoing, and

honest, sometimes to a fault. She wasn't a mean-spirited person, but she was who she was, and if you didn't like that, well, Lacey had plenty of other friends who did. In high school, Lacey was pretty popular, and by the time she was 15, she got her first real boyfriend, a guy named Kent Gain. Kent was two years older than Lacey, but they stayed together even after he graduated. And when Lacey enrolled at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo in 1993, Kent moved there with her. Lacey majored in ornamental horticulture. Her schedule included classes like landscape design,

hot house garden production, pest control, and floral design. It was the perfect combination of the love of gardening she shared with her mom and the skills she developed from helping out around her father's ranch. Lacey and Kent rented a small home near Cal Poly in Morrow Bay, the same area where the Pacific Cafe was. They spent most of their time cooking at home and tending to their garden. And despite living off campus, Lacey made a lot of friends at school. But whenever they invited her to hang out, she usually chose to go home to Kent, which Lacey's friends didn't appreciate, especially because they were not fans of Kent. They felt like he was condescending and didn't value Lacey enough.

So when the two eventually broke up shortly after Lacey's 19th birthday in May 1994, her friends were thrilled. Lacey herself didn't seem too devastated by it. She moved on quickly, focusing on her studies and her job at Cal Poly's plant and floral shop. It was a good thing Lacey got out of the relationship with Kent. Just five years later, Kent shot his then girlfriend. He was arrested, convicted, and sentenced to 15 years in prison. Wow, I actually didn't know this about Lacey.

This is new information to me. And before I talk about this, I want to make something very clear. Lacey is the victim. The fact that she had two violent partners does not take away from that, nor is she in any way to blame for this. Everyone deserves a happy and healthy relationship, and the reality is that one in four women and one in nine men are or have been in a relationship with intimate partner violence. When it comes to intimate partner violence, it is not always physical.

It can be psychological. And given what we know about Kent now, her isolating herself from her friends or choosing to be at home with her partner instead of being with her friends on the few occasions she could, could have been signs that psychological abuse was occurring, especially if it was a regular pattern and it was atypical from her normal behavior before she met him. So this may have been an indication that intimate partner violence was occurring. Not to mention her friends did not like Kent. It looks like they picked up on something themselves in

his condescending nature and the lack of value he had for her. Thankfully for Lacy, she was able to get out safely of that relationship before it progressed and became more violent, but absolutely tragic that that was not the case for his next girlfriend. So a couple months after getting out of her relationship with Kent, Lacey ended up at the Pacific Cafe in the summer of 1994 flirting with Scott Peterson. They immediately hit it off and quickly started dating. Scott seemed like a true gentleman, bringing her roses and exposing her to the finer things in life, like good wine and fast cars. He was nice to her family too. Needless to say, they approved of him. And this sounds great and healthy on the surface, but given what we know and what's happened

and the conviction that later resulted, in hindsight, this could have been an indication that there was love bombing occurring. And that's a tactic commonly used in cycles of abuse. That's not to say that that's the case in all circumstances, because of course romance and wooing is a part of the dating process. So obviously, when we're looking for love bombing, it has to be considered with other patterns of behavior. But given the relationship that she had just left and the possibility that there was intimate partner violence with Kent, this might have made her more susceptible to this kind of manipulation.

Well, after dating for two years, Lacey and Scott moved in together. About a year after that, in August of 1997, they got married. Even though they were still in school, Lacey and Scott were ready to spend the rest of their lives together. But four months later, Lacey graduated, and everything changed. She got a job as a wine distributor

in Prunedale, two hours away. Scott couldn't move there with her yet since he had more classes to take, so Lacey left for Prunedale while Scott stayed behind in San Luis Obispo. And that was when he began having an affair. Throughout the first few months of 1998, 22-year-old Lacey Peterson had no idea her 24-year-old husband Scott was cheating on her. That changed in the early summer, when it was Scott's turn to graduate from Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Lacey was in town to celebrate and while they were together,

Scott's mistress walked in on them. She had no idea Scott was married. Scott and Lacey got into a massive fight that weekend, but she didn't want her friends to hate Scott, so she didn't tell anyone about the cheating. She did tell one friend that Scott wasn't acting like a married man, but she didn't elaborate any further than that. It seemed that even though Lacey was angry at Scott's betrayal, she still wanted to maintain the facade of her picturesque marriage. Scott starts cheating when he's living separately from his wife, and I don't think that's any coincidence.

It appears that he started cheating because he felt he could get away with it, or he was lacking that constant attention, that constant admiration that he's been so accustomed to since he was younger. When it comes to Lacey, the version of Scott she fell in love with was the one who seemingly prioritized her needs and showed affection in these grandiose ways. Now she's learning about his infidelity. That is a very big contrast and one that causes someone to question their own judgment. She's likely struggling with reconciling his infidelity with the person she thought she knew.

The one who made her feel loved and special, with the one who violated her trust in a way that suggests the exact opposite. And now they're married, and she is emotionally invested. And if love bombing is what had happened here in the initial stages with Scott, she fell in love with a version of Scott that was manipulative and possibly superficial or inauthentic. And that version made her feel so happy and fulfilled so she likely believed or strongly hoped that she would be able to get back the person she fell in love with, that that person exists. She wanted to believe and in

order to maintain that hope she would have to keep this indiscretion to herself. Any outside influence could effectively shatter the hope and the idealistic future that she had been planning. After Scott graduated, he and Lacey put their problems behind them, or at least to the side. Lacey moved back to San Luis Obispo

and they started to work toward a future together. They bought an old bakery in a strip mall and turned it into a sports bar called The Shack. Scott manned the kitchen while Lacey took the lead on all things design. It was a lot of work, but they made it a successful college hangout. They even found time to host dinner parties back at their house, all while Lacey pursued her passion for cooking by taking a culinary course in France. I love her adventurousness and her fearlessness.

She's so young and accomplished so much already. And everything for them seemed to be back on track. There was just one thing standing in the way of the perfect life they envisioned for themselves. Like so many young people, they realized they weren't going to be able to buy a house where they currently lived. The market in San Luis Obispo was just too high. So in 2000, Lacey and Scott put the shack up for sale and moved back to Modesto. It's possible that Lacey was the one pushing for it. She wanted to have kids, even though Scott didn't. But if he ever did change his mind, she wanted to be home near her family.

It didn't take them long to find the perfect little fixer-upper. Scott got a job working for a fertilizer company, while Lacey switched career paths and started working as a substitute teacher. She liked the flexibility it gave her, especially if she ever did get pregnant. It seemed like the right decision, because Scott didn't take long to change his mind about starting a family. Lacey was ecstatic, but she knew getting pregnant wouldn't be easy. She only had one ovary due to a surgery from years earlier. That meant she had to carefully track when she was ovulating. She was methodical about the process, tracking her cycle every day, waiting for the right

time to try with Scott. The problem was, Scott always seemed to be traveling when Lacey was ovulating, which frustrated her to no end. I'm wondering if they discussed their views on having a family before they got married or after they got married. I've heard conflicting reports on this, but realistically not being on the same page regarding family is a fundamental compatibility issue that often leads to distress and discord and resentment. And I want to discuss this as delicately as I can because, again, no matter what,

Lacey is a victim here and she is not to blame in any way, shape, or form for what had happened. However, it does appear that her hopefulness might have put some pressure on the marriage. And to be fair, there are a lot of pressures that married couples face. Marriage is about compromise and understanding, and those pressures can't be entirely avoided, but they can be handled in healthy and effective ways, even if that means separating.

All that aside, I wanna focus on what it was that made Scott assert to her that he changed his mind, since it doesn't really appear that he changed his mind, since it doesn't really appear that he really did if he was actively avoiding her during the times that they could conceive. Telling her something that wasn't true for personal gain, in and of itself, is a manipulation tactic if that's what he did. Let's recap here.

Scott's the youngest child of a blended family who, from what we know, was spoiled and babied. He was arrogant in school, according to his teammates. Scott's the youngest child of a blended family who, from what we know, was spoiled and babied. He was arrogant in school, according to his teammates. He appeared to have used possible love bombing as a way to gain trust from Lacey so he could be regarded as the perfect partner, Prince Charming, which is also manipulation. So it seems as if Scott thrives when he is being viewed as perfect and admired. He needs that validation from others. So we see that there's a disagreement

that might've caused her to maybe distance a little. And so it appears, it was more likely than not, that he told her what she wants to hear to return to feeling like the perfect husband again, which if having children was not what he wanted, then that means he did that for personal gain and not truly for the benefit of Lacey or the greater good of the marriage.

And if that is the case, that's manipulative. So despite how Scott might've actually felt about having kids, he was willing to try. And in May of 2002, right around Lacey's 27th birthday, she found out she was pregnant. Her due date was in February of the following year and they were expecting a boy. They decided to name him Connor. As the rest of 2002 passed, Lacey feverishly prepared for Connor's arrival.

She spent less time substitute teaching and more time around the house. She loved having a little more time for cooking and hanging out with her old high school friends. The only real downside was that Scott was always busy with work. When the holidays came around, Lacey was especially upset. She and Scott usually went to see their cow-poly friends down in San Luis Obispo for their annual holiday party. But this year, they couldn't. Scott said his boss was in town and he had a big meeting he couldn't miss. That's what Lacey told her friend, at least. Whether Lacey suspected the truth or not, was a different story.

Scott wasn't actually in Modesto entertaining his boss. He was 95 miles away in Fresno with a 27-year-old massage therapist named Amber Frye. He'd met her through a friend a month earlier and they'd hit it off. As far as Amber was concerned, Scott was a real life Prince Charming. She had no idea that he was married with a baby on the way. It makes sense at least to me that he would become a serial cheater

if we're operating on this idea that he needs constant praise and admiration from others in order to continue to be looked at favorably, much like he was as the youngest child. In relationships as they progress, and I know you mentioned this, and they become more serious, and certainly in a marriage, compromise and conflict resolution are necessary components. Within his marriage, that reality likely began to set in. The newness is no longer there.

So when there's a perceived crack in this perfect facade he's worked so hard to engineer, it threatens his supply of praise and admiration. So he's going to seek that out in other ways, and a new relationship will immediately give him that. Scott himself had admitted this in a jail interview that he did this year. He said that intimacy that he got through his indiscretion made him feel good because, quote, they wanted to have sex with me, which I interpret to mean that Amber had rose-colored glasses on and hadn't yet seen through the facade of the Prince Charming

that he wanted her to see, and it was purely to fuel his ego. Whatever Scott's reasoning was behind the affair, he was serious about it. He blew off the holiday party in San Luis Obispo with Lacey so he could spend time in Fresno with Amber instead. Around that time, in early December 2002, Scott came clean to Amber, sort of. He told her the reason he was single when he met her was because he was a widower. He said his wife had recently passed away, and this would be his first Christmas without her. All while his very much alive wife waited for him back in Modesto.

It was a peculiar lie to tell, but in a way he was, telling the truth, just a little ahead of schedule. Because in a matter of weeks, Scott's wife would be out of the picture forever. On Christmas Eve 2002, Lacey Peterson's mom, Sharon Rocha, got a call from Scott. He wanted to know if Lacey was over at her house. Sharon told him no, she hadn't seen or heard from Lacey at all that day. Scott said that was odd. When he got home, their dog was in the yard with his leash still on. Lacey's car and purse were still at the house, but she wasn't there.

Once Scott relayed this information, panic set in for Sharon and her husband, Lacey's stepfather, Ron Gransky. Lacey wasn't the type to go out without telling anyone where she was headed, especially not when she was eight months pregnant. Within 30 minutes of Scott's call, Ron dialed 911 and reported Lacey missing. Let's discuss this reaction from Scott Scott because it could imply a lot and it could be perceived differently. One explanation is that his lack of panic could imply that Scott didn't want to be an alarmist. There are many cases

specifically in medical emergencies when people delay calling for emergency services because they don't believe it warranted an emergency response, when in fact it did. His appraisal of the situation may have failed to recognize the seriousness of it, and then he rationalized it with other explanations. Scott himself shared that he assumed that Lacey was with her friends or family. Another explanation is that he was in shock. Psychological shock is a strong surge of emotions in response to an unexpected stressor or event. Some examples of shock symptoms are denial and feeling numb or detached emotionally. The other implication of his

reaction, of course, is guilt. It could indicate an intentional delay to buy time to ensure he gets his story straight, practicing the concerned call to her parents before he made it, and of course, cleaning up any evidence. Soterios Johnson So after Ron called 911, Detective Alan Brochini was dispatched to the Petersons' house. He found Scott at a nearby park where Lacey usually walked their dog. Instead of questioning Scott right there, Brochini asked if they could go back to the house to talk. It was the first of many small tests that Brokini and his fellow detectives would put

Scott through to see how he reacted. From the beginning, the detective could tell Scott was acting a little… off, at least in Brokini's professional opinion. Of course, there's no right way to behave when your wife goes missing, but Scott seemed calm and collected as he answered the detective's questions. He wasn't panicking like the rest of Lacey's family. Scott walked the detective through his morning. He said that after he and Lacey woke up, they had breakfast and watched a little Martha Stewart together. Then Scott left to go fishing.

He drove to his warehouse, which kind of doubled as his office. The warehouse was filled with fertilizer for his business. It was also where he stored his boat. Once Scott arrived, he sent a couple of work emails, then hooked up the boat to his truck and made the long 90-mile drive to the Berkeley Marina. He spent roughly an hour and a half on the waters of the San Francisco Bay, then left

the Marina. He had a parking receipt to prove it, too. Then he said he returned home to an empty house and showered. He had assumed that Lacey had gone to her mom's place. He didn't know why Lacey would leave their dog in the yard, but apparently it didn't cause him to panic. He even took some time to eat before calling Sharon to ask about Lacey's whereabouts. Brokini listened to Scott's story, taking notes and jotting down follow-up questions.

He was soon joined by fellow detective John Buehler. Both remained unconvinced of Scott's innocence, so they asked him to come down to the station for a polygraph test. According to the detectives, Scott said he would be happy to take one. But by the end of the night, he apparently changed his mind. I think this is something we should touch on. So Scott could have agreed to the polygraph test during the interview just to get it over with, or because he was very eager to do whatever it took to exclude him from being a suspect.

He could have changed his mind because he was advised by counsel or because he feared that there could be a false positive. Maybe he did some research about it. This actually is not an uncommon occurrence that doesn't necessarily mean guilt. But we also have to consider, as we have been discussing, that Scott has a pattern of manipulation where he is superficially charming. He's willing to say and behave in ways that gain immediate results that benefit him. It is also very possible that he agreed to do the polygraph test in the moment to appease detectives and present favorably in order to maintain his image,

and later change his mind because he recognized that this could be incriminating. So choosing not to do the polygraph might have felt less harmful to him and his image. Does seem like it totally fit his pattern of being charming and like making sure people like him and then realize like, oh, wait a minute, now it no longer suits me. Now, as far as polygraph tests in general, they've kind of come into question recent years

in terms of how accepted they are as legitimate evidence. Yeah, attorneys are more appropriate to speak on this, but here's what I do understand about it. Polygraph tests are generally not admissible because they're not scientifically reliable. Results of a polygraph test vary by the machine, by who's administering it, and of course, the person taking it. So there are instances in which polygraphs are admissible, and that typically is when

both the defense and the prosecution are agreeing to admit it into evidence, or it has to corroborate witness testimony and assist with the trier effect. Christmas Day came and went, and there was still no sight of Lacey. By the following day, December 26th, police had a search warrant for the Peterson home. But when detectives Brokini and Bueller went over, they didn't immediately show the warrant to Scott. Instead, they asked if they could come in

and search the place. It was another test to see how he reacted and if he would cooperate. Although Scott eventually let them in without seeing the warrant, he was hesitant, which raised the detective's suspicions. But when they searched the house, they didn't find anything incriminating. And despite what the detectives may have believed, Lacy's family remained supportive of Scott. The Scott they knew couldn't possibly be responsible.

But unbeknownst to them, Scott had a secret, one that revealed his true nature. On December 30, 2002, the Modesto police received a call that turned the entire investigation into Lacey Peterson's disappearance on its head. Amber Frye, Scott Peterson's girlfriend in Fresno, had just seen a news report about Lacey's disappearance. She told the police all about her relationship with Scott and how he had told her his wife was dead. Ironically, weeks before Lacey Peterson actually went missing. Naturally, the story was a huge red flag for the investigators, but it was Amber's word against Scott's.

They needed proof, and Amber was willing to help them get it. Amber agreed to record every phone call she had with Scott, and she tried her best to pull as much information out of him as possible. In all, she would record over 29 hours of conversation with him. Those tapes started the very next day on New Year's Eve 2002. Scott called Amber and pretended like everything was fine. He told her he was in Paris with friends, ringing in the New Year, but he'd be home soon and couldn't wait to see her.

In reality, Scott was actually at a candlelight vigil for Lacey and their unborn son, Connor. Although he was acting like a dutiful husband who feared for his wife and child, his phone call to Amber suggested otherwise. And so did a pair of photos the media captured from the vigil. In one of the pictures, Scott was setting down a candle with his niece. Instead of the somber expression

you'd expect from someone in that situation, Scott had a huge smile on his face. And it didn't seem to be a one-off instance. In the other photo he was standing with a group and laughing. Let's talk about this objectively. Because this behavior very well could suggest that he lacks empathy for Lacey and Connor and the fact that they're missing. And obviously that would be perceived as manipulative, even grandiose. But if he's being photographed laughing with a group of people at this vigil, then

what does that say about the group of people also laughing with him while there? Humor is a defense mechanism too, and it's employed when people are deeply uncomfortable. A vigil with people watching your every move could definitely make someone uncomfortable. Let's talk about the phone call to Amber. It's very clear that Scott is conning Amber. He's feeding her an elaborate lie when he should simply tell the truth but doesn't. In this moment, while at the vigil for his wife and child, he cares as much about Amber's perception of him as he does the media and the community and his own family.

If he's not guilty, then an explanation for this is he fears, once again, losing the admiration he has coming from Amber, that supply right there, and also because he knows he's slowly losing that favor with Lacey's family, the community, and with the police suspecting him of being involved, even if they hadn't declared it publicly yet. Like we said before, there's no right way to behave when something terrible happens to you, but the public started to turn on Scott after the vigil. After the photos were published, many began to think that maybe something terrible hadn't happened to him. Maybe he was the terrible thing hadn't happened to him. Maybe he was the terrible thing that had happened to his wife.

That was certainly the way the media covered the case. After the drama surrounding the candlelight vigil, Lacey's disappearance went from a local story to national news. Everyone from Anderson Cooper to Diane Sawyer covered the missing pregnant woman and her suspicious husband. And Scott kept giving them material that made him look guilty. Whether it was the photos from the vigil or his strangely calm demeanor, he didn't seem to be portraying any sense of urgency or worry for his missing wife. Yeah, I have to, again, we want to look at this as objectively as possible.

Imagine being thrust into a national spotlight after your wife and unborn child are missing. Whether you're guilty or not, every move and every expression you make is being scrutinized on a massive level. That can create a lot of anxiety and uncertainty on just even how to behave if no matter what you're doing or not doing, people are going to criticize it. And I think most people would struggle with that pressure and likely shelter in place somewhere, anywhere they felt the safest. Unfortunately, there really is no way of telling how anyone is going to react to something like that, especially when it's on national news. I mean, on the one hand, if Scott's exhibited signs that he was distraught, some could perceive that as performative. If he was solemn, some might

perceive it as lacking empathy. I'm not sure there was a way that he should act and would have pleased the public, because he simply cannot please everyone, and nor should that have been his priority. No one gets to tell someone how they should mourn or grieve or react to any kind of trauma or stressful event because it's such a subjective experience. However, I think Scott presents to the public as detached and lacking empathy

because I think most of what he presents is somewhat manufactured and superficial. I think that's just been his pattern. And I'm not even sure he knows who he is authentically. Since he's acted this way, in any way necessary to gain praise since he was a child, he wants admiration. And it's hard to get admiration from people when your wife and child have vanished and you're in the spotlight. Well regardless of how Scott was acting, there still wasn't any physical evidence in the case. So on January 5th, 2003, divers went out to the Berkeley Marina where Scott had told detectives

he'd gone fishing on Christmas Eve. The hope was that they could find something connecting him to Lacey's disappearance. Maybe even her body. But the divers came up empty. It was a frustrating dead end, but also an avenue for hope. Maybe Lacey really was still alive somewhere. Maybe Scott hadn't killed her. And an alternate theory quickly formed. Sometime around Christmas Eve, there'd been a robbery at another house in the Peterson's neighborhood.

Some people, including Lacey and Scott's families, believe that the robbery was tied to Lacey's disappearance. Maybe she'd seen something and the thieves had hurt her to keep her quiet, or they'd kidnapped her. The police tracked down the thieves, but after intense questioning that included a polygraph test, they were convinced the robbers weren't involved with Lacey's disappearance, and so the investigators turned their attention back to Scott. Their biggest asset was Amber Frye, who was still recording her phone calls with Scott. But sometime in mid-January 2003, police learned that the National Inquirer had uncovered the truth about Scott's affair with Amber.

The paper even had a photograph of them from the holiday party in Fresno. If they published that photo, it could spell doom for the investigation. Amber was a key part in building the case against Scott. If her reputation was tarnished, it could impact her validity as a witness. The authorities decided she had to get ahead of the story. So on January 24th, Amber held a press conference. She confessed that she had been in a relationship with Scott, but she made it very clear that he had always portrayed himself as being single. She had no idea Lacey even existed.

The revelation about Amber changed everything for Lacey's family. They started looking at Scott differently. He'd lied to their faces for months. They couldn't help but wonder what else he might be keeping from them. Grieving the loss of a loved one to murder is a very intense and complicated process in and of itself. But learning that your loved one is suspected of doing this and then has secrets that fracture every belief you had in that person just complicates that grief even more. Some might linger in a state of denial not simply because of the grief and the shock of it,

but because denial also is a defense mechanism. They're not yet ready to face the feelings associated with this revelation, because those feelings would be profoundly uncomfortable and deeply distressing. The only way to come to terms with this is through time and through self-compassion, and challenging any internalized blame or guilt, using non-judgmental self-talk, and seeking support from others. In an attempt to do some damage control, Scott agreed to an interview with Diane Sawyer on Good Morning America. But it didn't exactly go as planned.

During the interview, Scott was caught in a troubling lie. On air, he told Diane Sawyer the police knew about the affair the day Lacey went missing. He said he'd told the police about it immediately. But that wasn't true. In reality, he told detectives that his and Lacey's marriage had been perfectly fine. See, this is once again another data point that shows that Scott has a pattern of caring more about his image and the public perception than the truth when simply being honest was okay. And he also told Diane Sawyer that Lacey knew about the affair and was okay with it.

But no one in Lacey's life could back up that claim. Perhaps most tellingly, Scott referred to Lacey in the past tense. He said that Lacey was amazing. It was a strange way to refer to her, because if Scott really thought Lacey was still out there alive, he would likely refer to her in the present tense. Now of course, it could have been an innocent slip-up, but to many people watching, it seemed like Scott knew something no one else did. The authorities certainly thought so. By March of 2003, more than two months after Lacey's disappearance, the Modesto police officially started investigating her missing person case as a homicide. And Scott Peterson was their number one suspect.

Thanks so much for listening. I'm Carter Roy, and this is Murder True Crime Stories. Join Dr. Engels and me next time as we discuss the investigation into Lacey Peterson's murder and how detectives narrowed in even further on her husband Scott. Murder True Crime Stories is a Crime House original powered by PAVE Studios. Here at Crime House we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media at Crime House on TikTok and Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Murder True Crime Stories wherever you get your podcasts.

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a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios, is executive produced by Max Cutler. This episode of Murder True Crime Stories was produced and directed by Ron Shapiro, written by Alex Burns, and edited by Alex Benedon, fact-checked by Sarah Tardif, and included production assistance from Stacey Warrincour and Sarah Carroll. Murder True Crime Stories is hosted by Carter Roy with a special appearance by Dr. Tristan Engels. Dr. Tristan Engels has never met Scott Peterson, nor is she giving any formal diagnosis.

This was for educational purposes only.