Murder: True Crime Stories - UNSOLVED: JonBenét Ramsey 1

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

Everyone knows JonBenét Ramsey’s name. Few know how the investigation into her murder was mishandled from the very start. From contaminated evidence to critical clues left in plain sight, we break ...down the pivotal early errors that changed the course of one of America’s most infamous cold cases. Murder: True Crime Stories is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House+ on Apple Podcasts. Don’t miss out on all things Murder: True Crime Stories! Instagram: @murdertruecrimepod | @Crimehouse TikTok: @Crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia YouTube: @crimehousestudios To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 This is Crime House. Some families just seem picture perfect. They've got the nice house, a happy marriage, and healthy kids. From the outside looking in, it seems like they've got it all figured out. That's certainly how people saw the rest. Ramsey's. By 1996, John Ramsey was the CEO of a billion-dollar company and owned a sprawling house in Boulder, Colorado. His wife, Patsy, was a former beauty queen turned stay-at-home mom. Their children, 9-year-old Burke, and 6-year-old John Bonnet, had everything they could ever want.
Starting point is 00:00:53 By all accounts, they were living the American dream. However, that illusion shattered around Christmas of 1996 when John Bonnet was found dead inside their home. In the days and years that followed, all eyes turned to the Ramses, but for the first time, they didn't want the attention because they were no longer being admired. They were being investigated in their own daughter's murder. People's lives are like a story. There's a beginning, a middle, and an end, but you don't always know which part you're on. Sometimes the final chapter arrives far too soon, and we don't always get to know the real ending.
Starting point is 00:01:52 I'm Carter Roy, and this is Murder, True Crime Stories, a crime house original powered by page, studios that comes out every Tuesday and Thursday. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following, murder, true crime stories, wherever you get your podcasts. And to enhance your murder, true crime stories listening experience, subscribe to Crimehouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad-free listening, early access,
Starting point is 00:02:29 to every two-part series and exciting bonus content. This is the first of two episodes on the Unsolved Murder of Six-Year-Old John Bonae Ramsey. This notorious cold case has captivated the media, divided the public, and sparked countless conspiracy theories. Today, I'll introduce you to John Bonae and her family. I'll walk you through what happened inside the Ramsey's Boulder, Colorado home on December 26, 1996. I'll discuss the controversial investigation that followed and how John Bonaise's own parents became prime suspects. Next time, we'll look at the fallout, the media frenzy, the grand jury, and the series of twists and turns that kept this investigation alive.
Starting point is 00:03:24 John Bonaise's case has continued to dominate headlines, but no one has ever been charged with her murder. And nearly three decades later, the world is still searching for answers. All that and more coming up. The world was first introduced to John Bonaise. Ramsey in 1996. But her story began years earlier in 1979. That's when her father, 36-year-old John Ramsey, met 22-year-old Patsy Paw in Atlanta, Georgia. John was quiet and shy, a man of few words. He was also recently divorced with three kids under the age of 11. Meanwhile, Patsy was bright, bubbly, and had nothing tying her to her.
Starting point is 00:04:24 down. She'd just graduated from West Virginia University with a journalism degree, but if you asked about her greatest accomplishment, she'd say it was being crowned Miss West Virginia two years earlier. At first, it seemed like an unusual match, but John was persistent and treated Patsy like a queen even off the stage. Plus, it probably didn't hurt that John was successful with a steady job, money in the bank, and a Porsche in the driveway. After months of whining and dining, Patsy couldn't help but fall for him. Before long, they were in a serious relationship and ready for the next step. A year later, in 1980, they got married when John was 37 and Patsy was 23.
Starting point is 00:05:15 They settled into a home in Atlanta with John's kids, who Patsy loved as if they were her own. she began working for John's computer company, a tech startup called MicroSouth that he ran from the house. It seemed like the start of a beautiful new life, and it was about to get a lot more glamorous. In 1989, 10 years after John and Patsy first met, John merged his company with another called Access Graphics, which resold computer hardware. Two years after that, in 1991, the Ramses left Atlanta for Boulder, Colorado, where the newly formed company was based. John was taking over as president and CEO. It was a huge promotion, but it was only the beginning. Before long, Lockheed Martin came calling, a massive defense contractor with billions in government contracts.
Starting point is 00:06:19 They acquired access graphics, but kept John on to run it. Suddenly, he wasn't just successful. He was insanely rich. At that point, John's kids from his first marriage had already moved out or onto college, but by then, John and Patsy had two children of their own to fill the void, four-year-old Burke, and one-year-old John B'nai. The family moved into a sprawling 6,800 square foot house. It was a gorgeous home, but Patsy thought it could be even better.
Starting point is 00:06:57 Over the next two years, she remodeled and redecorated the entire house, reportedly costing over $700,000, more than they'd paid for the actual property. According to friends, Patsy had a talent for spending money, which John didn't always appreciate. Sometimes he snapped and accused her of trying to bleed him dry. Patsy didn't seem to care, though. In her mind, it was all justified, and there was one area where she absolutely refused to budge,
Starting point is 00:07:35 splurging on her daughter. After Patsy had been crowned Miss West Virginia, she'd gone on to compete in the Miss America contest in 1976 when she was 20. And while she didn't win, she still kept her old competition sash to prove it. She'd lay it out now and then, like a shrine to her younger self. And she desperately wanted John Bonnet to have that same feeling one day. By the time John Bonnet was two years old, Patsy was already talking about her. her daughter becoming Miss America. She enrolled John Bonnet in her first child beauty pageant soon
Starting point is 00:08:20 after. Patsy spared no expense when it came to preparing her daughter for the pageant world. She spent thousands on singing lessons and dance classes for John Bonnet. She also bought her custom-made costumes, tailored for every performance. The night before a big show, Patsy would do what she called a pageant scrub. It was a head-to-toe makeover. She bathed John B'nai, washed her hair, and painted her nails. If Patsy's sister Pam was in town from Atlanta, she helped too. Then, the morning of the competition, Patsy would dress her daughter up like a miniature adult.
Starting point is 00:09:04 John B'nai had high heels, full makeup, and styled hair. Patsy taught her how to walk the runway, how to smile just right, how to perform. Some said John Bonae love the tiaras and the attention. Others, like a former nanny, said the whole thing made her scared and that she didn't always want to go out on stage. But she did, and she won time and time again. John Bonnet racked up titles, including Little Miss Charlevoix, America's Royal Miss, National Tiny Miss Beauty, and Little Miss Colorado. Amongst the pageant moms, there seemed to be an agreement that maybe one day John Bonnet really would be Miss America. But even John Bonnet's success couldn't distract the Ramses from the dark days ahead.
Starting point is 00:10:05 In 1992, the first of several tragedies struck. John's eldest daughter, 22-year-old Elizabeth, died in a car crash. A few months later, John's father passed away, too. The following year, 37-year-old Patsy received her own devastating news. She was diagnosed with stage 4 ovarian cancer, and the prognosis didn't look good. although she started chemotherapy right away the doctors weren't sure she'd make it and for a while it seemed like 50-year-old john might lose someone else he loved but patsy fought hard over the next two years she endured endless treatments and in 1995 the cancer went into remission by the time christmas of
Starting point is 00:10:59 1996 rolled around, the Ramses had a lot to be thankful for. Patsy had become cancer-free for over a year and was feeling great. John's business was booming. Access graphics had made over a billion dollars in revenue that year, and he just received a generous Christmas bonus. And their kids, nine-year-old Burke and six-year-old John Bonae seemed happy and healthy. That morning, on December 25th, Santa had gifted both kids bikes. Burke also got a Nintendo 64 and John Bonae got a dollhouse. She spent the afternoon playing with it while her dad looked on lovingly. Around 4.30 p.m. or so, it was time for the family to get ready for Christmas dinner at their neighbor's house.
Starting point is 00:11:52 The hosts were their good friends, Priscilla, and Fleet White. The two families had a lot in common. Fleet and John were both successful businessmen. Priscilla and Patsy ran in the same circles and did a lot of charity work together. And they both had six-year-old daughters and older sons. Around 5.30 p.m., the Ramses made the short drive over to the whites. They spent a few hours hanging out and eating dinner. By 10 p.m., they were ready to call it a night.
Starting point is 00:12:23 It was time to get Burke and John Bonaid to bed. Back at their place, John and Patsy tucked the kids. kids in, then turned in themselves. They'd had a lovely day, nothing remarkable, but nice nonetheless. But by the time the sun rose, it would be a Christmas, they'd never forget. On December 26, 1996, 39-year-old Patsy-Ramsey woke up early, around five, 45 a.m. The Boulder, Colorado home was quiet, and she slipped out of bed, leaving her husband, 53-year-old John, to sleep longer. They had a big day ahead of them. They were taking John's private plane to Michigan to meet up with his older children.
Starting point is 00:13:16 Then the whole family was going on a Disney cruise. Patsy made her way down from the third floor, desperate for coffee. She passed the second floor, where her kids were still asleep. As she continued down the spiral staircase towards the main level, she noticed something sitting on one of the bottom steps. It was a stack of papers. Patsy leaned over to pick them up. She flipped through the three handwritten pages, struggling to understand what they said. She hadn't had any caffeine yet, and her mind was still foggy. She kept reading, and suddenly the word hit her like a ton of bricks. Patsy ran straight to six-year-old John Bonaise's room on the second floor.
Starting point is 00:14:06 The bed was empty. The covers were pulled back, and there was no sign of her daughter. John ran in, and she handed him the letter. It was a ransom note. Whoever wrote it claimed to have kidnapped John Bonae. They wanted $118,000 for her safe return, and warned the Ramses not to get the police involved. But John and Patsy didn't hesitate.
Starting point is 00:14:35 They still called 911 immediately. Around 5.52 a.m., seven minutes after Patsy made the 911 call, patrol officer Richard French arrived at the house. The Ramses let him inside and John handed over the ransom letter. Officer French scanned the note. It said the kidnappers were, from quote a small foreign faction they claimed that john bennay was safe for now if the ramses wanted her back they needed to hand over the cash it also said that john bennay's captors would contact the family
Starting point is 00:15:16 between eight and ten a m with further directions after reading the letter officer french looked around. Two things struck him right away. First, the note itself. Something about it just felt off. It was too long and rambling. It felt almost theatrical to him. Second, were the Ramses. Patsy was visibly distraught, crying and shaking in the corner, covering her face with her hands. And yet, French felt like she was watching him between her fingers. Whenever he caught her staring, she quickly looked away. And then there was John, who seemed unusually calm for someone who just learned his daughter had been kidnapped. But Officer French kept his observations to himself as more people arrived. The Ramses had called Priscilla in Fleet White, another couple
Starting point is 00:16:21 and their church minister for support. Other police officers were trickling in, too. A little past 8 a.m., Detective Linda Arndt walked through the doors. She'd been with the Boulder Police Department for about a decade. She was trained in dealing with child sexual assault cases, but had never led a kidnapping before. Even so, she was confident going into the investigation. She sat the Ramses down and asked that,
Starting point is 00:16:51 them to recount the last 12 hours. She listened closely as John and Patsy explained how they'd gone out to dinner, went to bed, then woke up to find John B'nai missing. Given Detective Arndt's experience with traumatic situations, she was calm and compassionate. She treated John and Patsy like the devastated parents of a kidnapped child. It was kind of her. But this approach also caused some major issues early on. For starters, she didn't separate John and Patsy. She let them tell their story while sitting side by side. That meant she couldn't pick up any differences between their versions of events. She also didn't question the Ramsey's friends that morning, which was strange. At that point in the investigation, everyone should have been
Starting point is 00:17:48 considered a possible suspect. But one of the biggest red flags was that the house was never sealed off. The crime scene remained open as people came and went, contaminating evidence whether they meant to or not. Finally, no one had searched the house from top to bottom. The responding officers had just done a cursory sweep, assuming John Bonnet had been taken, like the note said, For the most part, the authorities spent the morning waiting for the kidnappers to call. John, Patsy, and everyone else waited. And waited. 10 a.m. came and went and still nothing.
Starting point is 00:18:35 By 1 p.m., Detective Arndt was done sitting around. She told John and his friend Fleet White to do a thorough search of the house and let her know if anything was out of place. To be clear, this went against protocol. The responding officers should have checked the entire home by them. And yet, Arndt was sending a family member to do the job instead. Still, John and Fleet followed orders and headed off. John led them toward the basement first.
Starting point is 00:19:11 He planned on starting at the bottom of the house and moving their way up. There, Fleet noticed a small broken window near the top of the wall, just above ground level. The glass was shattered, but the opening was tight. Still, someone thin could have squeezed through, so he called out and told John about it. John explained he'd actually broken the window the previous summer, but had gotten it fixed. He wondered if someone else had re-broken it and come inside. especially because there was a suitcase directly beneath the window that didn't belong there. It looked like it had been placed intentionally, as if someone had used it as a stepping ladder to escape back out the window.
Starting point is 00:20:01 Next, John moved deeper into the basement. The space was divided into several small rooms, storage, a game area for the kids, and a wine cellar. he opened the door to the wine cellar and stepped inside and that's when john screamed fleet raced over and saw his friend hunched over a small figure on the floor it was john bennay she was lying on the ground wearing a white sleep shirt and long underwear someone had duct taped her mouth and tied a cord around her right wrist. Another white cord was wrapped around her neck. It had been fashioned into a garat, a strangling device where a handle is attached to a collar of sorts. It's a brutal way to kill someone, allowing the user to pull the collar tighter, then loosen it, then pull it again. In this case, the collar was a cord, and the handle was a broken paintbrush.
Starting point is 00:21:13 John B'nai's body was partially covered with a white blanket from her bed. Her red nightgown lay nearby. John peeled the duct tape from her mouth, but he could tell she wasn't breathing. Whether he was in shock or it was just instinct, he didn't leave her there and rushed to tell Detective Arndt what he'd found. Instead, he picked up his daughter and carried her upstairs. He didn't cry until he finally laid her down on the hardwood floor in the living room and threw a blanket on top of her.
Starting point is 00:21:51 That's when he let out a heartbreaking wail. When Patsy saw her daughter, she threw herself on top of John Bonae. She sobbed and screamed, begging God to bring her child back. The Ramsey's minister, who had been with him at the house, gathered everyone around, they stood over the body of six-year-old John Bonae and said the Lord's prayer. It was a devastating moment, but it was also a huge mistake. John had found the body, not the police. In doing so, he disrupted a potential crime scene.
Starting point is 00:22:35 He removed duct tape, moved her body, and introduced his own DNA in evidence. Then Patsy had done the same, and Detective Arndt had even pulled the blanket up to cover more of John Bonnet, potentially contaminating things even further. It was concerning and confusing, especially because Detective Arndt had realized something very important by that point. Later, she said that when she watched John Ramsey walk up the stairs with John Bonnet, her stomach dropped. Something about his demeanor and the way he carried his daughter, holding her away from his body like a mannequin, was suspicious. Detective Arndt couldn't say what it was exactly, but she just felt it in her gut that he was the killer. This episode is brought to you by Square.
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Starting point is 00:24:02 what's not, and what's next. Because when you're doing big things, your tools should to. Visit square.ca to get started. Have you ever encountered something that you just can't explain? Strange sounds in the night, a shadow on the side of the road, something that feels just a little bit spooky? If you have, submit your story to our podcast, Two Girls, One Ghost. Two Girls, One Ghost.
Starting point is 00:24:26 Two Girls, One Ghost, is the most haunted podcast in America. Where each week we dive into all things strange, spooky, and supernatural, and share stories of paranormal encounters from our community of listeners. satisfy that spooky itch and entertain your inner witch with two girls one ghost listen now wherever you get your podcasts and check us out on youtube at two girls one ghost but be warned side effects might include a haunting or two listen at your own risk very spooky on the afternoon of december 26 1996 six year old john benet ramsie was found murdered in the wine cellar of her Boulder, Colorado home. Her dad, 53-year-old John, was the one to discover her lifeless body. In the hours that followed, he and his wife, 39-year-old Patsy, were inconsolable. John surviving children from his first marriage arrived in Boulder that evening. Patsy's sisters flew in from Atlanta, too. But the Ramses knew they couldn't go back to their house. It was too
Starting point is 00:25:36 traumatic so they spent the night of friends. That evening, Patsy could barely function. She was so devastated, she needed friends to help her shower. Meanwhile, John spent the whole night pacing. But not everyone believed their grief was genuine. The next morning, December 27th, lead detective Linda Arndt and her colleagues regrouped. After watching John carry his daughter up the stairs, Detective Arndt had become convinced he was John Bonnet's killer. At that point, she didn't know his possible motives or if Patsy had been involved. But as soon as she and her colleagues started sifting through the evidence, a theory began to form in Detective Arn't's mind.
Starting point is 00:26:27 The first clue was the ransom note. It turned out it had been written on paper from a legal. pad in the Ramsey house. There'd even been a draft on another sheet where the author had started and stopped, seemingly trying to figure out how to begin the note. For Detective Aren't, the discovery cast even more suspicion on John and Patsy. It meant the note had been written once the killer was inside the Ramsey home. But why would they have stayed around long enough to write and revise a fake ransom note if they'd already murdered John Bonae. Then there was the ransom demand. The note asked for $118,000, which just so happened to be
Starting point is 00:27:21 the exact amount of John Ramsey's Christmas bonus that year. Who would know that, except one of the Ramsey's. Even more strange, John never attempted to gather the money. He never went to the bank. In fact, it seemed like the thought didn't even cross his mind. Instead, he called the police, despite the note explicitly warning him not to. On top of all that, the grot used to strangle John Bonnet had been constructed using materials from inside the house. The handle had come from one of Patsy's own paintbrushes. Not only did this link the potential murder weapon directly to Patsy, but it also suggested the killer didn't bring a weapon. They fashioned one using materials found in the home, which is unusual for intruder murders. It was yet another clue that
Starting point is 00:28:24 seemed to suggest the killer lived at the Ramsey's house. After reviewing the evidence, Detective Arndt was convinced she knew who'd murdered John Bonnet. Now, she needed to prove it. Later that day, on December 27th, Arndt and her team interviewed the rest of the Ramsey's, who are now in Boulder, including John's 21-year-old son from his first marriage, John Andrew. Apparently, John Andrew and his dad had discussed the previous day's timeline, because when detectives questioned John Andrew, he made a comment about his father finding John Bonnet's body
Starting point is 00:29:07 around 11 a.m. However, reports showed the discovery happened closer to 1 p.m. It wasn't clear if John Andrew had made a simple mistake or if his father had told him something no one else knew. on its own well that wasn't too concerning but it wasn't the only eyebrow-raising moment from the interview towards the end of their discussion detectives asked john andrew how john bennay's killer should be punished john andrew paused for a moment his answer forgiveness it was another red flag his half-sister had been brutally murdered less than 24 hours ago and he was already talking about forgiveness it made detectives wonder if john andrew could have been involved or if he was trying to protect someone he loved for detective aren't all
Starting point is 00:30:14 signs seemed to point back to the ramsies And she was eager to question them individually. Before that could happen, though, the Ramsey's lawyered up. They handed over their fingerprints and DNA samples, but that was the end of their cooperation. From that point on, they refused to speak to the authorities. Of course, retaining a lawyer didn't mean they were guilty, but their refusal to speak with the police was,
Starting point is 00:30:47 suspicious. Most people in their position would do everything in their power to move the investigation forward. And before long, the authorities weren't the only ones who thought the Ramses had something to hide. Within days of John Bonnet's discovery, the news of her murder had spread like wildfire around the country. Several factors played into the attention. The crime happened over Christmas during a relatively slow news cycle. The Ramses were wealthy, and John Bonae wasn't just an adorable six-year-old. She was also a child beauty queen who'd been endlessly photographed and videotaped. Those pictures were plastered on every tabloid and magazine, and the videos played over and over
Starting point is 00:31:39 again on the news. Everywhere Americans looked, they saw John Bonae's face staring back. at them. Although the authorities hadn't made any public statements, the media and the public had come to their own conclusions, and they thought the Ramsies were guilty. Armchair detectives focused on Patsy's obsession with John Bonnet's pageant career. Clips of John Bonnet wearing full makeup, performing on stage and costumes were circulated around. Many viewers and investigators found the footage disturbing. They thought John Bonnet looked more like a woman than a six-year-old. Some even said John Bonnet seemed too sexual, which led to another theory. Maybe a predator
Starting point is 00:32:30 had seen one of John Bonnet's pageant videos and become fixated on the girl. People wondered if they'd track down the Ramsey's address, then broke into their home to attack John Bonnet. Even then, the public believe John and Patsy were to blame. They accused Patsy of exploiting and exposing her daughter. There was a rallying call amongst their critics. What kind of parents put their daughter in that situation to begin with? With all the finger-pointing and speculation, it's not surprising that the Ramses quickly brought on a media consultant and a publicist,
Starting point is 00:33:12 but as much as they tried to control the narrative, the investigation was out of their hands. An autopsy was done the day after John Bonaise's death. It showed that her skull was fractured from a massive blow to the head. She'd also been strangled with the garotte. It was hard to tell which happened first and what actually caused her to die. However, most experts believed it was asphyxiation due to the stress. strangling. Another point of debate was whether she'd been sexually abused. One specialist from the district attorney's office said it seemed unlikely. But another forensic pathologist disagreed and said
Starting point is 00:33:58 there was clear evidence of molestation. Without a consensus, investigators had to focus on the evidence they did have, and they kept coming back to the ransom note. Detective Arndt and her team believed the note written to stage a kidnapping and mislead the police. They still weren't sure why, but in the meantime, they tried to determine who'd written it, and their prime suspect was Patsy. They submitted samples of her handwriting to a specialist. The results were inconclusive. There were indications that she may have written it, but nothing definitive.
Starting point is 00:34:42 Over time, authorities compared handwriting from 74 people connected to the case. They ruled out 73. Only one result remained unclear. Patsy Ramsey. While the investigation moved full steam ahead, the Ramsey's tried to generate leads on their own. One week after John Bonnet's death on January 1, 1997, John and Patsy appeared on CNN.
Starting point is 00:35:15 It was their first televised interview, and they pleaded with the public to help catch John Bonaise killer. For many watching, it seemed strange. The Ramses were willing to go on national television, and yet they still refused to talk to the police? If they were really innocent, wouldn't they be doing everything possible to help find their daughter's killer? Five days later, the Ramses made another public appearance.
Starting point is 00:35:46 This time, it was at their daughter's memorial service in Boulder. When Patsy left the church, she was hanging on a friend's arm, sobbing in front of a wall of cameras. To some, it looked like a display of raw grief. To others, it looked staged. Once again, Patsy's behavior was being scrutinized. And once again, the public asked themselves, was she a heartbroken mother, or was she a guilty one? By early 1997, even the authorities were divided. Boulder detectives were growing increasingly convinced that John and Patsy Ramsey were responsible and wanted to press charges.
Starting point is 00:36:36 But the district attorney's office disagreed. The DA didn't want to prosecute a wealthy, prominent couple without an airtight case. He still thought there was a chance the Ramseys were victims in this whole thing, which meant the case was at a standstill. Even if detectives went ahead and arrested the Ramsey's, the DA could simply decline to file charges. It was a fundamental disagreement, and one that would paralyze the investigation,
Starting point is 00:37:09 for years to come. With all the debate around her murder, John Bonaise's case would become one of the most infamous unsolved crimes in modern American history. But while some people were convinced that John and Patsy were to blame, they were far from the only suspects.
Starting point is 00:37:30 And in the decades that followed, it would become clear that the media weren't the only ones who were dead. dangerously obsessed with John Bonae. Thanks so much for listening. I'm Carter Roy, and this is Murder True Crime Stories. Come back next time for part two on the murder of John Bonae Ramsey and all the people it affected.
Starting point is 00:38:05 Murder True Crime Stories is a crime house original powered by Pave Stores. studios. Here at Crimehouse, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media at Crime House on TikTok and Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Murder True Crime Stories wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And to enhance your murder, true crime stories listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode, ad-free, and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting bonus content. We'll be back on Thursday.
Starting point is 00:38:51 Murder True Crime Stories is hosted by me, Carter Roy, and is a crime house original, powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Murder True Crime Stories team, Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benadon, Natalie Pertsoff, Lori Marinelli, Sarah Camp, Alex Burns, Beth Johnson, and Russell Nash. Thank you for joining us.

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