Murder: True Crime Stories - UNSOLVED: JonBenét Ramsey 2

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

Think you know everything about the JonBenét Ramsey case? We explore the sealed grand jury indictment, the false confession that made global headlines, and the forensic discoveries that cleared the Ramsey family, but left the mystery unsolved. These are the pivotal turns that shaped this infamous murder investigation. Murder: True Crime Stories is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House+ on Apple Podcasts. Don’t miss out on all things Murder: True Crime Stories! Instagram: @murdertruecrimepod | @Crimehouse TikTok: @Crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia YouTube: @crimehousestudios To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Crime House. Cold cases tend to invite a lot of speculation. After all, the whole reason they're unsolved is because of gaps in the story, ones that we are desperate to fill. But in our rush to make sense of the puzzle, we might actually be doing more harm than good. That's what happened in the case of John Bonae Ramsey. After the six-year-old was found murdered in her family's home in 1996, the case divided a city, a country, even the world.

People were split. Some thought her parents were involved. Others swore it had to be an unknown intruder. The investigation was so polarizing. Even the authorities couldn't agree on how to proceed. Nearly 30 years later, John Bonaise's case is still suffering from all those clashes. And at the end of the day, we still aren't any closer to the truth. People's lives are like a story.

There's a beginning, a middle, and an end, but you don't always know which part you're on. Sometimes the final chapter arrives far too soon, and we don't always get to know the real ending. I'm Carter Roy, and this is Murder True Crime Stories, a crime house original powered by Pave Studios that comes out every Tuesday and Thursday. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Murder True Crime Stories wherever you get your podcasts. And to enhance your Murder True Crime Stories listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad-free listening, early access to every two-part series, and exciting bonus content.

This is the second of two episodes on the Unsolved Murder of Six-year-old John Ben John Bonae Ramsey. This notorious cold case has captivated the media, divided the public, and sparked countless conspiracy theories since 1996. Last time, I introduced you to the Ramses and discussed the initial investigation into John Bonae's murder. We also talked about how her parents, John and Patsy, found themselves in the hot seat, even as they maintain their innocence. Today, we're continuing the search for John Bonnet's killer as detectives honed in on their first real suspects and a grand jury convened.

But just when the public thought there would be closure, the investigation took a shocking turn. And decades later, we're still left wondering, do we know the whole story? All that and more coming up. This episode is brought to you by Square. You're not just running a restaurant, you're building something big. And Square's there for all of it.

Giving your customers more ways to order, whether that's in person with Square Ciosk or online. Instant access to your sales, plus the funding you need to go even bigger. And real-time insights so you know what's working, what's not, and what's next. Because when you're doing big things, Your tools should too. Visit square.ca to get started. Reading, playing, learning.

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Their daughter, 6-year-old John Bonae, was missing. When police arrived at the Ramsey's Boulder, Colorado home, John and Patsy handed over a three-page ransom note. Apparently, John Bonae had been kidnapped. Just hours later, things took a devastating time. turn when John Bonnet was found dead. In the Ramsey's own wine cellar, it seemed she'd never left the property. Detective Linda Arndt, who was leading the investigation at that point, quickly came to believe the Ramseys were involved in John Bonnet's death. In her opinion, John and Patsy had

orchestrated the fake kidnapping and ransom note as a cover for their daughter's murder. But Arndt's hunch wasn't enough. She needed proof, and not everyone agreed with her theory. While many in the Boulder Police Department leaned toward the Ramsey's being guilty, the district attorney's office took the opposite stance. They believe the killer was an unknown intruder, and John and Patsy had nothing to do with what had happened. By the end of January 1997, just a month after John Bonnet's death, the case was stuck in a deadlock between the two agencies, and the Ramses weren't helping move things along. They'd lawyered up and refused to cooperate with the police. For the Boulder PD and much of the public, this only made them look even more suspicious.

But they weren't the only family members with a question mark above their heads. In February, investigators interviewed John Ramsey's children from his first marriage, 21-year-old John Andrew and 25-year-old Melinda. Both claimed they were in Atlanta, Georgia when John Bonnet was killed, and had flown to Colorado shortly afterwards. But detectives weren't entirely convinced their alibis held up, especially when it came to John Andrew. they'd already spoken to him once the day after the crime during that interview he insisted the

killers should be forgiven it was a strange thing to say less than 24 hours after john bennay had been brutally murdered detectives followed up with him and melinda but after a few weeks they were able to confirm their alibis both siblings were cleared by march around this time another set of DNA testing was completed. Police didn't reveal the results, but they seemed to confirm Detective aren't suspicions. Two weeks later, John and Patsy were officially named Prime Suspects. By that point, even the district attorney couldn't look the other way. After months of dragging their feet, the DA acknowledged that his office was going to focus on John and Patsy. A lot of the evidence seemed to point to them being somehow involved.

But there was one thing that just didn't make sense. Why? Although experts still couldn't confirm whether or not any sex crimes had taken place, it seemed likely. And based on that assumption, the Boulder PD had two theories. One suggested that John had killed his daughter during some kind of sexual assault, gone wrong. The other was that Patsy had walked in on her husband abusing John Bonae and panicked. She went to hit John, but struck John Bonae instead. Another version speculated that Patsy had lost her temper. Urine, stains, and blood had been found on John Bonae's long underwear, which suggested she'd wet the bed. Detectives wondered if Patsy had either hit or she'd hit or

shoved her daughter in a fit of rage. While the theories varied, the gist was the same. John Bonaise's death had been accidental, but the cover-up that followed was premeditated. And most importantly, John B'nay's parents were involved. By the end of April, police were desperate to talk to John and Patsy. It was the only way to move the investigation forward. After four months of dodging questions, they finally agreed to sit down with the detectives

for their first formal interviews. But on one condition, they wouldn't speak unless they were given access to the full police file. They wanted to see the evidence for themselves. Normally, a request like that would be out of the question, especially for the prime suspects in a murder investigation. But John and Patsy Ramsey Ramsey weren't your typical suspects. Whether it was their standing in the community

or their lawyers negotiating abilities, John and Patsy were able to review the file. After that, they agreed to sit down with Detective Steve Thomas and Tom Trujillo, two seasoned homicide investigators with far more experience on murder than Linda Arndt. John's interview lasted 90 minutes.

Patsy's stretched to six and a half hours. Neither one has been made public. But it's safe to assume the detective shared their theories with the Ramsey's because afterwards, John and Patsy got in front of the press and went on the offensive. John addressed the growing rumors about possible sexual abuse. He called them, quote, the most hurtful innuendos. Patsy spoke more forcefully. She said she was appalled that anyone could believe she or John had anything to do with their daughter's death. She swore they were both

innocent. It was clear to the world that John and Patsy were feeling the heat, but it turned out they weren't the only ones who were sweating. In the months since John Bonaise murder, Detective Linda Arndt had been heavily criticized for how she'd handled the investigation, especially in the early stages. She never secured the crime scene and didn't formally interview John, Patsy, or their friends. She even told John to search the house, a move that ultimately allowed him to find and move his daughter's body. In doing so, he disrupted and potentially destroyed crucial evidence. The public had learned all of these details and were appalled. They couldn't believe Detective Arndt had made so many huge mistakes.

By May 1997, even her superiors couldn't ignore it. Not only had Arndt potentially damaged the investigation, but all the negative press was distracting from the task at hand, solving John Bermain's murder. That month, the Boulder PD removed Arndt from the case. altogether. Later, Arndt would file a lawsuit against the police chief accusing the department of abandoning her and ruining her career. Because of a gag order placed on officers, she wasn't allowed to speak publicly in her own defense. She argued they'd

thrown her to the wolves and allowed her to be swallowed up whole. None of that changed the facts. Linda Arndt was out of the picture and a new detective was taking over. Like Arndt, he believed the Ramses were involved. But he had a different approach, and he was determined to succeed where she'd failed. ...Td Bank knows that running a small business is a journey, from startup to growing and managing your business. That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide tips and insights on business banking to entrepreneurs no matter the stage of business you're in visit td.com slash small business advice to find out more

or to match with a td small business banking account manager by the summer of 1997 it had been more than a half a year since six-year-old john benet ramsie was found murdered in her family's home In that time, there had been non-stop media coverage across the country and mounting public pressure for Boulder authorities to bring the killer, or killers, to justice. The Boulder PD had recently removed Detective Linda Arndt from the investigation. A new group of detectives was brought on, including Steve Thomas. He'd been on the case from the beginning and even interviewed John and Patsy in April. Now he was helping lead the charge.

He agreed that the Ramsey's weren't innocent. But while Arndt thought John was the killer, Detective Thomas focused his attention on Patsy. Thomas had come to believe the theory that Patsy had flown into a rage after John Bonaugh wet the bed. He thought Patsy was in a bad mood that night, possibly because she was stressed about the holidays, and her upcoming 40th birthday.

According to Thomas, Patsy either hit John Bonae or slammed her against something hard like a bedpost or a wall. The little girl fell to the ground, dead from the impact. Thomas thought that was when Patsy panicked. After thinking it over,

she decided to write a fake ransom note and stage a kidnapping. She brought John Bonnet to the basement and wrapped a wire around her throat with one of Patsy's own paintbrushes attached as a handle. Then she put other cords around her wrists and duct tape across her mouth to make her story seem more realistic. When John eventually learned what Patsy had done, he chose to protect her and go along with the kidnapping plot. But not everyone bought Thomas's theory. Homicide Detective Lou Smith was one of his loudest detractors. Smith thought John and Patsy were innocent.

He believed John Bonae was murdered by an unknown pedophile. He theorized this person had snuck into the Ramsey's home, then used a stun gun to disable John Bonae while they sexually abused her. At some point, John Bonae started screaming, and the perpetrators struck her in the head, killing her. Smith claimed forensic evidence supported his theory more than Thomas's. Both detectives were convinced they were right, and neither was willing to back down. The two men were constantly fighting. Thomas thought Smith was derailing the investigation and refusing to acknowledge that the

simplest explanation was the correct one. Meanwhile, Smith was treating the Ramses like victims. Because of that, he was one of the only investigators who John and Patsy were willing to communicate with, and they took full advantage of that relationship. The Ramsey's constantly asked Smith for the most recent case files, which he happily handed over. With John and Patsy's staying one step ahead, it only made it more difficult for Thomas to prove his version of events. The one thing Thomas had going for him was that the public also widely thought John and Patsy were responsible.

They were hounded by tabloids and scrutinized on national television, and the public practically demanded that they be looked into. The DA had already acknowledged the Ramsey's were suspects, but he'd been hesitant to do anything beyond that. Until finally, in March 1998, more than a year after the murder, he announced they were convening a grand jury. It was a sign that criminal charges might be on the table. At the same time, new pieces of evidence were still trickling in. Somehow, John and Patsy had only just submitted the clothes they'd worn the night of the murder over a year after their daughter's death.

While the forensics team was busy analyzing those items, detectives turned their attention to another member of the Ramsey family, one who could change the entire course of the investigation. Burke Ramsey had been nine years old at the time of his sister's death. Now in 1998 he was 11. Early in the investigation, police had left Burke alone. They didn't want to traumatize him further and believe the crime was far too elaborate and sophisticated.

for a child to carry out, but maybe he was a witness to the events in the Ramsey house that morning. In June 1998, detectives asked Burke to come down to the station. They brought in a child psychologist to conduct the interview. Burke sat across from them, fidgeting and sipping from a soda can. The psychologist started gently asking about Christmas morning the day before John Bonnet was found dead. Burke spoke quietly. He recalled that his sister got a bike. He remembered unwrapping presents and smiling for photos with his family. Then came the questions about the next morning when John Bonnet was reported missing. He described how his mother had rushed into his room, turned on the lights, and woken him up. She looked around and ran back out again. He said he

didn't know what was going on, only that something was clearly wrong. Burke said he stayed in his room after that because he was too afraid to come out. But that version of events didn't totally match up with Patsy's. Originally, the Ramses told police that Burke had slept through the chaos of the morning and hadn't woken up until after officers arrived, which made the detectives realize. someone was lying. After speaking with Burke, investigators revisited the 911 call. They enhanced the recording and what they found changed everything.

In the background of the call, they could hear a voice that sounded like Burke's. It raised the possibility that Burke had been awake the whole time. If so, what did he see? What did he see? What did he? did he know, and was there a world in which he'd been involved in John Bonnet's death? Over the years, people have speculated that Burke killed his sister in a fit of rage after she stole a toy or ate some of his food, and then his parents, not wanting to lose another child, covered it up for him. But those theories have never been proven. At the time, the investigation was still very much focused on John and Patsy.

And things were only getting more heated by the day. By August 1998, tensions within the Boulder PD had reached a breaking point. That month, Detective Steve Thomas resigned from the department. In his eight-page resignation letter, he accused the DA's office of obstructing justice, failing to support detectives and allowing the case to spiral out of control. He said the whole investigation had been thoroughly compromised. That made two detectives who'd either resigned or been taken off the case in the span of 18 months. It was a sure sign that the investigation was not headed in the right direction.

In the wake of Thomas' allegations, the governor of Colorado stepped to, in, he appointed new prosecutors to assist with the case and assured the public they'd have answers soon. And it seemed like they were determined to make good on their promise. In September 1998, the grand jury was officially convened. It had been almost two years since John Bonnet's death, but for the first time, it seemed like someone might actually be charged. Behind the scenes, though, the investigation continued to flounder. That fall, there was yet another high-profile resignation, this time from veteran homicide detective, Lou Smith.

Although he and Steve Thomas had opposing theories, they had the same complaint. Justice was being obstructed. In his letter, Smith wrote that a dangerous killer was still out there, and the authorities were wasting time and resources targeting the Ramses. And that wasn't even the end of the drama. A few months later, in March 1999, Linda Arndt also resigned from the department. After being kicked off the case a year earlier,

she'd been sidelined and publicly blamed for every early misstep. She'd had enough. Six months after her resignation, she went on Good Morning America. She said she knew definitively who the killer was. She wouldn't give a name, but it was clear who she meant. She still believed the Ramses were responsible. The grand jury also thought John and Patsy were involved,

but they couldn't agree on a murder charge. Instead, they voted to indict John and Patsy on charges of child abuse resulting in death. Meaning, the jury didn't necessarily think they'd murdered John Bonnet, but they had put her in a vulnerable situation where someone was able to target her. In October, the grand jury was ready to move forward. But in a shocking twist, the DA backtracked

and refused to sign off on the charges. He argued the evidence was still too weak. week. He didn't want to charge the Ramses without a rock-solid case. At the time, the jury's decision remained sealed. Without knowing the truth, the public assumed nothing could come of the proceedings and that the Ramsies had somehow been cleared. John and Patsy leaned into that assumption. In 2000, they released a book called The Death of Innocence, where they told their side of the story. They claimed they'd been betrayed by the police, vilified by the media, and wrongfully accused. But they weren't the only ones who were looking to share their

version of events. That same year, Detective Steve Thomas released his own book. In it, he laid out in painstaking detail why he believed Patsy Ramsey had accidentally killed John Bonae and how he thought both parents had staged the crime scene to cover it up. The Ramses sued him for liable, seeking $80 million in damages. The case was eventually settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. But before long, Steve Thomas was the least of their worries. Around 2003, Patsy's ovarian cancer returned. She spent three years fighting, but in June 2006, she lost the battle.

She was 49 years old. Patsy was laid to rest beside John Bonae in Georgia, where the Ramsey's had returned months after John Bonae's death. Even then, the question of her involvement remained. But just before her death, Patsy had learned. some very important information. There was someone out there who was ready to confess, and if what he had to say was true,

it meant Patsy would be exonerated from beyond the grave. Grocery shopping, ch-ch-ch-ching. Ordering food? Ch-ch-ching. Filling up on gas? Commuting Cha-ching Using streaming services

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you to decide what to believe in. Rather, decide what you fear. Get somebody out here. Follow and rate unexplained encounters on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, or go to eeriecast.com. By the fall of 2006, it had been nearly a decade since six-year-old John Bonae Ramsey was murdered in Boulder, Colorado. In that time, detectives had followed countless leads. Some were more promising than others, but nothing ever stuck. There was a sex offender who attended John Bonnet's candlelight vigil and raised suspicions. There was a neighbor who'd once dressed as Santa Claus and visited the Ramsey's home, and there was also a beauty pageant

photographer who other moms on the circuit were wary of. And of course, there were the Ramsey's themselves. John and Patsy had lived under a cloud of suspicion from the very beginning. Patsy had recently passed away from ovarian cancer, but before she died, she and John were contacted by a documentary filmmaker named Michael Tracy. He was a professor at the University of Colorado Boulder who'd produced a popular documentary called Who Killed John Bonae. Sometime in 2005 or early 2006, he told the Ramses he'd been speaking to a man who claimed he was John Bonaise killer. Patsy didn't live long enough to see this new development through, but in her absence and with John's blessing, Michael kept digging. Michael had actually been talking to this man for four

years. In 2002, he'd received the first of many emails from someone who called themselves Daxus. The man claimed he knew John B'nai, that he'd loved her, and that he'd been there when she died. Daxus described the killing as an accident, but insisted he was responsible. Michael was understandably wary. He knew there were people out there who were willing to make a false confession in exchange for fame and notoriety. So instead of going straight to the authorities, Michael started emailing with Daxus. He wanted to learn everything about John Bonae's alleged killer before sounding the alarm.

Daxus claimed he'd met John Bonae while attending a party at the Ramsey's home. He said that afterwards, he began sneaking into their house through the broken window in the basement to sexually assault John Bonae. His emails also contained disturbing and very specific details about the crime scene,

some of which weren't public knowledge. There was one detail that stuck out to Michael, though. Daxus claimed he drugged John Bonae the night of her death. He said the drugs had disoriented her, and she slipped and fell fatally hitting her head. When he realized she was dead, Daxus said he faked the kidnapping to cover up the truth. But Michael knew the author,

autopsy report like the back of his hand, and it had never mentioned any drugs being in John Bonae's system. Still, Michael continued communicating with Daxus, and as the years went on, Michael became convinced he'd truly killed John Bonae. Finally, after Patsy's death in 2006, Michael forwarded his emails with Daxus to the authorities. Detectives were cautious, hopeful. If there was even a chance that Daxus was responsible, they couldn't let him slip away. After thinking it over, they decided on a sting operation. First, they had Michael offered to give Daxus a photo of John Bonae. Over email, he told Daxus he could send it to him. He just needed an address. Daxus provided one in Bangkok, Thailand.

The photo was delivered on August 7, 2006. Police watched as a man opened the mailbox and took the photo, then followed him back to his apartment. They quickly identified him as 41-year-old John Mark Carr, and he was a wanted criminal. Five years earlier, when Carr was still living in the U.S., a warrant had gone out for his arrest. He was suspected of possessing.

child sex abuse materials. He'd fled the country before the authorities could nab him. But his criminal past had started far earlier than that. At some point, he'd been married to two different underage girls, one was 16, the other was 13. Now he was working as a second grade teacher in Bangkok. Not only were the police worried about him being around. so many children, but given his history, they thought it was very possible he'd also targeted

John Bonnet. So they moved in. On August 16, 2006, a little over a week after John Bonnet's photo was delivered to him, they arrested car at his apartment. He didn't resist or deny anything. In fact, he quickly confessed to killing John Bonnet. He told reporters the same thing he told the professor, that he'd been in love with her and had never meant to hurt her. It had all been a tragic accident. At the police station, Carr was charged with murder, kidnapping, and sexual assault. But the U.S. authorities were eager to take him to trial, so they fast-tracked his extradition. Normally, the process takes months. However, Carr had an outstanding warrant for child sex abuse charges in California, so he was sent back to the U.S. in less than a week.

It felt like the culmination of everything investigators had worked toward. Finally, they had their man. There was just one thing left to do. Check his DNA. Detectives were confident it would be a match. They took samples from him once he was back on U.S. soil and sent them off to the lab. For two excruciatingly long days, they waited for an answer. Then, on August 28, 2006, they got it.

But it wasn't what they were expecting. Carr's DNA wasn't a match for the samples found at the crime scene, not the ones found on John Bonae or any others found throughout the house. His story couldn't be true. On top of that, Carr's family swore he was home with them in Georgia when John Bonnet was killed. They admitted he had a fascination with the case, but said he couldn't have been the murderer. Just like that, the charges were dropped. In the end, John Mark Carr turned out to be one of many false leads.

some believed he was mentally ill others said he was chasing infamy whatever his motivation the confession unraveled as quickly as it had captured the world's attention a year later in 2007 there was a more meaningful development scientists retested DNA found on john bennay's clothing they previously discovered a partial male DNA profile in her underwear now they found a second matching sample on her long johns. This was important because it meant the DNA probably wasn't just stray contamination. It belonged to someone who'd been close to her at the time of her death. We still don't know whose it was.

Only that it wasn't a match for John, Patsy, or Burke, Ramsey. In 2008, that new evidence led the Boulder District Attorney to officially clear the entire Ramsey family of suspicion. In a letter, she apologized for the years of speculation and accusations. But for much of the public, those doubts didn't go away. Not completely. In 2013, a Boulder newspaper uncovered a sealed piece of file. history. The grand jury indictment from 1999. It turned out the jury had voted to indict John and Patsy, not for murder, but for child abuse resulting in death. The decision had never been

made public. Now, nearly 15 years later, it cast the entire case in a new light. The court of public opinion was still very much in session. In 2016, 20 years after the murder, CBS aired a two-part documentary called The Case of John Bonae Ramsey. The show gave life to an old theory that her brother, 9-year-old Burke, had struck John Bonae in a fit of rage, killing her. The program featured interviews with former investigators and took a fresh look at some of the evidence. John Bonnet had been found with markings on her back. Years earlier, Detective Lou Smith believed they were the result of a stun gun. But the CBS program said they were train tracks, possibly from Burke running a toy over her back. The documentary also looked back

at Patsy's 911 call. According to two agents from the FBI's behavioral analysis unit, It sounded like Patsy was asking someone, quote, What did you do? Followed by Help me Jesus. Burke, who was 29 at the time, responded to the program with a $750 million defamation lawsuit. The case dragged on for over two years before CBS reached a private settlement in early 2019 for an undisclosed amount. As of now, DNA discovered in 2007 hasn't revealed a match. Even so, authorities have continued to scour databases

and genealogy sites. With all the public pressure and scrutiny, it's safe to say detectives won't rest until they get a hit. But until then, we can remember John Bonae Ramsey for who she was, a little girl whose life was cut too short, whose death has galvanized generations of detectives, seen over 20,000 leads, and captured international attention. While the investigation has certainly had its ups and downs, at the heart of it all is an unparalleled commitment to finding the truth. It's an example of how all cold cases should be treated, because the sad reality is, there are countless more John Benet's out there, and every single one deserves justice. Thanks so much for joining you.

us. I'm Carter Roy, and this is Murder True Crime Stories. Come back next time for the story of another murder and all the people it affected. Murder True Crime Stories is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media at Crimehouse on TikTok and Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow Murder. True Crime Stories, wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And to enhance your murder, True Crime Stories, listening experience,

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