Murder With My Husband - 169. Brian Smart - The Murdering Mannequins

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

*this case involves suicide* https://linktr.ee/murderwithmyhusband On this episode of MWMH, Garrett and Payton discuss the disappearances of 3 gay men in the Indianapolis area back in the 1990’s and how one of them led to the discovery of a serial killer. Case Sources: Where the Bodies Are Buried (1998, St. Martin's), by Fannie Weinstein murderpedia.org/male.B/b/baumeister-herbert.htm en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Baumeister wthr.com/article/news/crime/private-investigator-virgil-vandagriff-cracked-herb-baumeister-case-investigation/531-11a6d7ed-74a0-445b-975e-006095d237dd ancestry.com/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/7857661/person/-1025934878/media/16f86ac6-439d-4958-855f-67f4c258f40c?_phsrc=Orl1&_phstart=successSource Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everybody welcome back to our podcast. This is murder with my husband. I'm Peyton Morland. No, I'm Garrett Morland. And he's the husband. I'm husband. I just had a moment of like weird as I was saying that intro. All right. Thinking back to the very first episode we recorded on the floor in the middle of COVID. Our iPhone, our Apple mics headphones using our mics.

We sat like 10 feet away from each other because we both felt so awkward and uncomfortable We didn't really want to look at each other and then we deleted it. Oh my gosh, that was weird It was rough Dude, but now who would have thought we had no idea what we were doing no idea Didn't you use you used Apple headphones and then I didn't have headphones So I talked into my iPhone right oh yeah But we'd leave it the episode obviously. You know where it is. Do you have that episode somewhere? I think it's on an old computer. How was I supposed to know that so many people would eventually want to hear that first episode?

Oh, there's no way I could listen to it. Oh you guys it was so bad. Even our first couple, like not couple, like our first good chunk are a little. Yeah, you just learning. We had no idea what we were doing. I think it's, I mean, that's still a problem. We still don't know what we're doing. It's crazy.

I don't know. Just thank you everyone for listening. Thank you for being here. That was a really just cool feeling for me for just a moment there. Also, if anyone is a new listener, hi, welcome to our corner of the internet and the podcast world. We're so happy to have you here and we're going to jump into 10 seconds, but first I wanted to

remind you that Garrett really knows nothing about these episodes before we get into it. He comes in here completely blind just as the listener does and also he really does hate true crime. Okay, care. Go ahead for your 10 seconds. I got some new golf clubs. Excited, hopefully spending money on golf clubs makes me better somehow.

So I did get some new golf clubs. Payton's pretty excited about that too. I don't care. No, it was fun. I went the other day and I really liked them. So that was really cool. I'm going to try to go at least twice a week. Yeah. And obviously what happens, maybe you'll see me in the PGA one day. Oh my gosh. You never know. You never know. Anything's possible. Look at the podcast. In front of our house, we had a car that had been sitting there, it was our car for like three weeks because it broke.

So just been sitting there and I finally got everything together, called a tow truck, got it called the service. So kind of excited to get our car back. Yeah. Productive week. Yeah, it actually was. We cleaned the house yesterday. We did a lot.

I mean, I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but there was a lot in between all that. Yeah. And lot. I mean, I know this doesn't sound like a lot, but there was a lot in between all that. Yeah. And last but not least, I'm not wearing a hat today. So if you were watching on YouTube, I'm not wearing a hat. Thought I'd throw that out there because I'd probably say that in 90, 3% of our episodes that I had on. Probably. So when I don't, and I look in the camera, it's kind of strange. All right, let's get into our case. Our sources are where the bodies are buried, murderpediawiccapediawthr.com, ancestry.com.

What happens to a person when that person becomes a missing person? People go missing for a variety of reasons, but for the missing who are never found, we mostly don't know what those reasons are. Some of these are people whose fates are a total mystery, where even the circumstances around their disappearances are unknown. They could be runaways, homicide victims, suicide victims, car accident victims, whose wreckage and bodies was never found, maybe submerged underwater, or people who've fallen

down abandoned mind shafts. The list of possibilities is bigger than you might think, but for a lot of those missing, their fates were the ugliest imaginable. A lot of them were homicide victims, and their bodies could be anywhere, maybe even buried on private property. In which case, their bones may remain undiscovered indefinitely. In today's story, we begin with a missing person case, and we'll see how a collaborative investigation effort between law enforcement, a private detective, and citizen sleuths led to a discovery that may otherwise have remained off the radar. When Virgil Vandagriff was in his early 20s, he was like many young men his age in the 1960s. He was trying to find himself. As the culture in the United States was rapidly

changing from the Kennedy assassination through the beginning of the Vietnam War, Virgil tried his hand at numerous careers, including working as an auto mechanic at a gas station and going door to door selling fuller brush. Holy what did you even say? And going door to door selling products. Then in 1965, when he was 22, Virgil decided to become a law enforcement officer. He was hired as a sheriff's deputy

for Marion County, Indiana, quickly rising the ranks to become a detective and eventually a sergeant. During his decades-long career with the Marion County Sheriff's Department, Virgil was a natural leader. He single-handedly brought the practice of forensic hypnosis to the department in 1976, becoming known around the area as the mine detective. By the time he retired in the late 1980s, he had used hypnosis in over 3,000 cases. And when he retired, he wasn't about to rest on his laurels. He had a successful private investigation firm he'd founded in the late 1970s. Virgil L. Vandergriff and Associates,

it was based in Indianapolis, operating out of a converted brick house down by the airport. was based in Indianapolis, operating out of a converted brick house down by the airport. Now in his 50s, with a head of white hair and a bushy white mustache, Virgil was like many private investigators. In that much of his caseload was tracking down bell jumpers, sussing out in bezelers and drug users in workplaces and locating missing children. But every now and again, a more challenging case would land on his desk, like in the summer of 1994. When a woman named Mary Beasley opened the yellow pages looking for a private detective, her finger landed on Virgil Vandergriff's office. Mary met with the private

detective and told him her story. The story of the disappearance of her 28-year-old son, Alan Brasard, who had been missing since early June. I'm not sure what my thoughts are exactly on, you know, hypnosis and all of that, especially because it makes me think of the case we did where the guy had a dream. Oh, yeah. And he had a dream that who the killer was, correct? He dreamt the murder. He jumped the murder, yep, that's what it was.

So, I don't know, it's like, I wanna say that this stuff isn't real, but then you have these cases like that. Mm-hmm. Or I'm just like, what? Yeah. Anyways, let us know if you are 100% for hypnosis and... Have you ever been hypnotized? No, never, have you?

I feel like we've talked about this. We have, we've talked about it before. I think we talked about it in that episode. Okay. Because, I mean, he saw a murder and I was just like, what? Yeah. But I'm not in anything, I'm open to it all. Okay, so Alan was last seen coming out of a gay bar in downtown Indianapolis and no

one had heard from him since. Alan worked as a nurses assistant at an AIDS hospital. This was at a time in the early to mid 90s when the AIDS epidemic was taking its heaviest toll. The drugs that have made it possible for HIV positive people to live a normal lifespan wouldn't be introduced until 1996, after which point the number of AIDS-related deaths annually began steeply declining. But in 1994, people in the gay community were watching their friends drop

like flies, and it hit the survivor's heart, people like Alan, whose life was reckless and manic. But Alan still always found time to call his mother. So when the calls stopped coming, and she found out that none of his friends had heard from him either, she feared the worst. She contacted the Indianapolis police, but it felt to her like they had bigger fish and gave Mary Beasley the cold shoulder. Out of frustration, she consulted a psychic and then hired another private detective before finally landing at Virgil Vandergriff. She explained to Virgil that she had already lost another of her three sons just earlier that same year in a car accident, and she just couldn't stand any more

tragedy and heartache in her life. Now, Virgil had worked in law enforcement and investigations for nearly 30 years by this point in his life. He had good intuition and was skilled at picking up on nuances and unspoken information. And he sensed that there was a lot Mary wasn't sharing about her son. Like she seemed uncomfortable talking about Alan's alcoholism, about his two drunk driving arrests. And there were corners of Alan's life that Virgil sensed Mary just didn't want to venture into.

So he respected this and he didn't press. After all, he figured he could just obtain that information from Alan's social circle, which had more direct access to these parts of Alan's life than his mother did anyway. For the time being, Virgil agreed to print up missing person posters with Alan's picture on them and distribute them around town. But they didn't generate any leads. And Virgil and his associates weren't able to glean much useful information from the men they talked to at the gay club's Allen frequented. Only that Allen had worked as a bartender at one and had been fired for overdrinking

on the job. It's weird that the mom wouldn't want to go into any details, assuming she wants to help find her son. She probably just wants to protect his secrets and the parts of his life that maybe even he himself wasn't willing to share. So one afternoon that summer, one of Virgil's associates picked up a copy of the local LGBT magazine, the Indiana word, and happened to notice an article inside about another young gay man who had gone missing. A 31-year-old guy named Jeff Jones, who was last seen outside an Indianapolis Alcohol Detox Center

the previous summer. Jeff looked so much like Alan that they could pass for brothers. This is what Virgil thought. He continued contacting people in Alan's social network. He learned from one of his colleagues at the AIDS hospital that in the six months before his disappearance, Alan had been having sex for money. He had been working for a catering company that was actually a front for a prostitution ring, and the men who ran it were dangerous men. His friend described Alan as a party boy who had moved to the big city

after growing up in a small rural town with no support system or community for LGBT people. So when he moved out, he overindulged in all the new experiences he didn't have access to back home. But he also had limited means and was still naive. So when an escort service lured him in with the promise of making two grand a night, he was all in. But it turned out to be a bait and switch.

It was too good to be true. This escort services clients were not the wealthy older men the escort operator had promised, and Alan was making only a fraction of the money he was guaranteed. He'd get one date per week, maybe two if he was lucky, and they wouldn't pay more than a few hundred a pop. And Alan had learned the previous summer that he was HIV positive, but he was at least morally responsible about this, always informing potential partners of his HIV status before they did anything together.

At the time he disappeared, Alan was still healthy and seemed newly committed to getting his life together before he turned 30. Virgil learned all he could about the missing Alan and then the case dead ended. Because for one, the missing man's mother had already hired another private detective. So there were two private detectives mining the same trail. I feel like that's something I would do. Well, the issue with this is some of the people Virgil talked to had already spoken to the other private detective.

Some of Virgil's team members, the other detectives at his agency, weren't all that comfortable visiting gay bars or bath houses. But little did Virgil know his work on the case was far from done. Sometime later, Virgil was contacted by a friend of his sisters, a woman named Catherine. Catherine's son, a 28-year-old man named Roger Goodlett, hadn't been seen or heard from since mid to late July. The story sounded eerily similar to Alan Brasard's and Jeff Jones's, a young gay alcoholic man with a risky lifestyle and an arrest record. Virgil began to suspect that these three men may have crossed paths with a serial killer.

Virgil began developing a profile of the theoretical killer. Theoretical because there weren't any bodies, these people were only missing persons. Though based on the circumstances, it was very likely that these missing men were dead. Virgil believed that whoever was likely killing these men would probably be a white male in his 30s or 40s and married with a family. So what happened to the police with these cases? Did it just die off?

Was it not in the works? It's probably a combination of things. If it was my guess, they maybe followed a couple leads here and there. It died off. But there's also the same reason that Virgil's detectives felt uncomfortable. I mean, in the 90s and we already know that minorities cases are a little bit more overlooked than other peoples.

And being a gay man who went missing was definitely a minority. And how old is Aluminum? He's about to turn 30. Okay, so they're both adults as well. There's three missing now. Technically, correct, yeah. So all three of them are adults, and technically, I mean, they have a right to not be found. So he believed the killer would probably be someone living a double life and ashamed of

his own sexuality to the point of projecting it outward onto the men he victimized. Virgil posted flyers of Goodlitt around town and talked to people at the bars he was known to visit, but he wasn't generating any useful leads. This friend of Rogers named Jeff Wynn called the office frequently to check if there was any progress with the investigation. To the degree that Virgil almost wanted to tell Jeff, hey don't call us, we'll call you. So now he's working on the next missing person case. And the friend kind of just keeps calling to check in on

Goodlitt. But then one day, Jeff, when the friend called in with a tip of his own, a friend of his named Tony may have gone home with the guy Roger Goodlitt was last seen with. But when Tony contacted the agency, he expressed hesitation about coming in. I don't want anybody to know who I am. He told Virgil's assistant. If this guy finds out I contacted you, he'll probably kill me. So, one of the friends goes out with a guy that Robert was last seen with, and this guy seemed dangerous to him. So now he's hesitant to come forward and turn him in. Just seemed interesting because if that was

the last guy that he had been seen with, you think that he'd be investigated more? Probably, but I mean, maybe there was just nothing found. I don't think they even knew that was who he was last seen with until he came forward. He came forward. Yeah. Got it. All right, we're jumping into an ad real quick. And it is Shopify. And we love Shopify. And if you've listened to the podcast before, you've probably heard us do a Shopify ad because we use it. And we love them. Shopify is the commerce platform revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide, whether you're selling candle holders or herbal teas, Shopify simplifies selling online and in person

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That's betterhelp. H-E-L-P.com slash husband. So Virgil's assistant tried to put him at ease, told him that anything he told them would be confidential and no one would even have to know he came in. He said he'd think about it and follow up the next day. But it took Tony several days before finally making his way down to Virgil's agency. When he walked in, the young man was visibly nervous and uneasy. This assistant tried to make Tony fill at home.

She brought him coffee and an asterisk so he could smoke while he waited for Virgil. Once he was in front of the detective, the detective asked if he minded if the conversation were recorded. She brought him coffee and an asterisk so he could smoke while he waited for Virgil. Once he was in front of the detective, the detective asked if he minded if the conversation were recorded. Tony made it clear that he didn't care so long the man he had information about didn't find out. He's a psycho, Tony said, he'll kill me. Virgil turned on the tape recorder and Tony began telling his story.

The man he encountered was named Brian. Brian smart, or at least that's what he said his name was. He'd seen him around at other bars at least four or five times before his own scary encounter with him. He'd also seen him in the company of Roger Goodlett, one of the missing men, around the time he disappeared. And then just a week earlier, it was on a rainy night that Tony had gone to a bar called 501 Tavern.

And it was there that he spotted the man sitting at the bar staring at a missing person poster of Roger Goodlett. Tony walked up to him and asked him if he'd seen the missing man. The man turned around and introduced himself as Brian, just completely ignoring the question, and proceeding to strike up a conversation with Tony. He said he was 28 years old, though Tony thought he looked much older, perhaps closer to completely ignoring the question and proceeding to strike up a conversation with Tony. He said he was 28 years old though Tony thought he looked much older, perhaps closer to 48. The man explained that he was a landscaper from Dayton, Ohio.

He was in town house sitting at a mansion in Carmel, he said. That's a suburb that's just outside of Indianapolis. Normally he lived with his parents, the man explained, but he had access for a whole week to this mansion with an indoor swimming pool. Okay. Yeah. The owner hadn't yet moved in and he had the place all to himself.

I bet you've got a wife and kids stashed away somewhere, Tony told the man who shrugged and took another sip of his beer. He then invited Tony back to the mansion, he'd just described. Let's have a cocktail and swim, the man said. And at first, the man who was calling himself Brian seemed harmless. Tony was comfortable enough with him to agree without hesitation. As they walked into the parking lot, Brian suggested they take Tony's car, but Tony wasn't comfortable with that. In his mind, because he was leaving the bar with a stranger, even though the stranger seemed benign enough, he wanted to leave his car behind to signify

that he had been at the bar and planned to return there. This made him feel safer leaving with Brian, who then whisked him away from the bar in a grey Buick, making the 30 minute drive up to Carmel. It seems like any time you have second thoughts on, I'm going to do this just in case I get kidnapped. Just don't do it. Yeah. During the drive Brian took a sip from a flask and then handed it to Tony who waved it away with a no thanks. Tony again was very safety-minded and didn't feel comfortable drinking something offered to him by a strange man he'd recently seen in the company of a missing person. Again, this just seems weird to me

that Tony's telling this sit-of-the-tective when he agreed to even get in the car and go to the house with the strange man. You know what I mean? A lot of this stuff, like, oh, he said he was 28, but he looked like he was 48. And that wasn't red flag, you know? Incidentally, I'd be like, whoa.

I'm not trying to blame Tony. Not at all. I'm just saying it's funny how the stories do get a little skewed. For sure. Brian looked slightly irked that Tony wasn't going along with exactly everything he wanted that he wouldn't get in the cut like that he wouldn't take Tony's car and then he wouldn't drink the drink. And for the remainder of the drive, Brian's smart was silent as they headed into a neighborhood that looked to Tony like rich people territory, not the kind of place he would typically find himself. Eventually, after exiting the highway and winding down a series of quiet residential streets,

they pulled into a large driveway beneath a sign that said, something farm. He couldn't make out the words just farm. And towering over the driveway was a sprawling stone mansion. As they got out of the car, a pack of stray dogs and cats ran up to them, wanting food and shelter from the rain. Brian told Tony not to pet them or give them any attention because the owners didn't want them around. He pushed the animals aside with his leg and led Tony into the garage through an unlocked side door. And when they entered, the garage was a mess. It was occupied by an antique car and stuffed with furniture and overflowing boxes. The inside of the house was

even worse, with cobwebs all over the place and boxes cluttering every room. Brian explained that the top of the house didn't have any electricity, so he couldn't turn on the lights. But there was power down in the basement as he descended a dark staircase with Tony following behind There's no way you believe that right? I just there's no way I mean like I just wouldn't go this is straight out of a horror film this suit as soon as someone says that to me I'm out right he turned on the basement light revealing a rec room with an indoor pool and a wet bar There was an unplugged big screen TV set and a smaller console TV behind it. And there was a fold out bed with cushions, mostly tossed about on the floor.

What was really creepy to Tony, however, was the presence of three or more mannequins placed around the pool, each of them posed. That is so creepy. Imagine going into this basement with a guy that's kind of already given you the Hebe Jeeps. And then you get down and there's just mannequins posed around the pool. One looked like the thinker position

with his chin resting in his hand, and another was placed on his stomach with his fingers reaching up to touch a decorative plastic shell. The mannequins were male and they were nude. Tony asked Brian, what's the deal with these mannequins? And Brian explained that he gets lonely out here all alone and the mannequins keep him company. That's the worst thing he could have said.

I thought he was gonna say, oh, you know, it's just rich people art. Yes. Like make something up. Cause I'd have been like, oh, yeah. Of course. You're probably right, of course. Yeah.

But instead he goes, oh, I'm just, he's your my friends. Yes. I see things. Yeah. Like what? I talked to dead people. Yeah, what course. You're probably right, of course. Yeah. But instead he goes, oh, I'm just shh. He's your my friends. Yes. I see things. Yeah. Like what? I talked to dead people. Yeah, what is that?

It was weird to Tony that this guy claimed he was only watching the house for a week. Yet he'd gotten lonely enough to bring a bunch of mannequins out there to keep him company. Brian then changed the subject and asked Tony if he wanted to do some coke. Tony declined and instead took out a marijuana joint and lit it. He took a puff and then passed it to Brian.

Brian then went behind the bar, which was already staffed, it seemed, by another mannequin that was wearing a wig. Brian began fixing drinks all the while inviting Tony to take a shower if he felt like it. He pointed toward the bathroom on the other side of the rec room. Brian handed him a drink. Tony didn't know what it was. It looked like maybe vodka. It was clear like it. He pointed toward the bathroom on the other side of the rec room. Brian handed him a drink. Tony didn't know what it was. It looked like maybe vodka. It was clear like vodka. But he didn't want to drink it. So Tony excused himself to use the restroom. And while he was inside, he spilled out the drink into the bathroom sink, rinsed the glass carefully and filled it with water. When he returned and eventually finished

the water, Brian offered him another drink. Tony declined. Brian insisted. Come on, he said, let's party, have another drink. Tony again refused, and Brian's tone became sharp before he left the room. Several minutes later, he returned in a chipper mood. Tony assumed he'd gone and done some coke, because suddenly Brian was bouncing all over the place and couldn't seem to shut up He then invited Tony into the pool But Tony wasn't sure. I mean who would want to swim in the mannequin pool? No, I don't know how he's still there. I know the temperature. Well, he didn't bring his car Oh, I'm running the temperature is nice and warm Brian said

Tony could hear the rain outside could hear it pouring down on the windows as he looked at the pool and saw steam rising up from it. A dip in a warm pool sounded especially inviting so he decided to just take off his clothes and dive in. Brian stayed on the side, watching as Tony swam around. It was during all of this at some point that Brian got behind Tony at the edge of the pool and slipped a pool hose around his neck. At this point Tony freaked out yanked Brian into the pool with him, but not in a playful way. He punched him in the face and called him a pervert.

Whoa, I mean, he's probably not wrong. And this is when he confronted him with the suspicions of him being a killer. You six psychopath yield, you killed Alan, you strangled him, didn't you? He then squeezed his hands around Brian's neck. Brian was much smaller than him. It's worth noting and choked him as Brian slowly lost consciousness and then limply slid underwater. Finally, Brian popped back up coughing water out of his lungs. Despite all of this, Tony still doesn't leave at this point. So we have to keep in mind that this is the story that Tony's telling police. Yeah. So, like, I personally think if you just confronted someone with being a killer, you'd probably think it up and leave the house, but they don't.

At some point, so Tony stays, they keep hanging out, and then at some point Brian ends up passing out. Tony took the opportunity to creep up to Brian and fill around for his wallet, hoping he could find his driver's license. Because at this point, he believed the name Brian wasn't even the guy's real name. But just as he slipped the wallet out of the sleeping man's pocket, Brian began to move and Tony immediately let it go and dropped it onto the floor. But Brian's eyes remained closed. He was sleeping, but maybe not as soundly as Tony thought.

Tony tiptoed up the stairs and quietly searched the house for a phone until he found one and called his sister. He told her he was up in some creepy house in Carmel with a guy who was trying to strangle him. He wanted her to come rescue him. It's a mansion off 31 he told her, the guy is scary. He's not right. But they both realized these directions weren't specific enough for her to even find him.

So Tony stayed. Early the next morning, just after dawn, Brian woke up and climbed back into his rumpled clothing from the night before. Telling Tony he had some errands to run but feel free to go back to sleep or make himself at home. Brian eventually returned from running errands and offered to drive Tony back to his car at the 501 tavern. The drive back was tense as Brian remains solin' and completely silent, but as they approached the bar,

Brian thanked Tony for being a good sport and gave him his telephone number. Virgil eventually put Tony in touch with Detective Mary Wilson of the Indianapolis Police Department and he shared the same story with her. He spoke to her for hours, also letting her know how the police and FBI had ignored him when he first came to them. He made a drawing of the property, the layout of the house, to the best of his recollection and gave it to her. And over the next few months, the investigation stalled and Detective Wilson and Virgil Van Degryff moved on with other cases.

And then it was late August 1995 when Tony joined three of his friends for a night out at the varsity bar. While they were drinking, Tony noticed a familiar face enter the bar. It was Brian. A surge of adrenaline shot through Tony's veins as he knocked back a shot of liquid courage and turned to one of his friends, pointing out Brian as the man he believed killed Roger Goodlitt. He told his friend to get a piece of paper and a pencil from the bartender go outside and write down his license number. His friend asked, how do I know which car is his? Tony told the friend to wait until Brian

leaves and watch what car he gets into. Tony explained he had a plan to make sure he left the bar sooner rather than later. So the friend went outside and that's when Tony up and made an announcement inside the bar. Hey guys, he shouted, look who it is. Come shake the hand of a serial killer. This is the guy who's strangling and killing men. He slapped Brian on the back and said, come on Brian old sport. Show him the choking trick you showed me. But Brian looked totally unfazed by all of this and just played along with it, demonstrating the choking.

I'm getting like second hand embarrassment and you're just telling me a story. I know. Tony's friend waited outside and eventually Brian walked out. When he finally did, it was about 45 minutes later. Brian didn't go to the parking lot, but rather he walked around the block around the side of the building. The friend waited a little while longer and Brian reappeared cautiously, checking to make sure no one was observing him. He fell to notice Tony's friend watching him from the shadows.

And when he believed the coast was finally clear, he got into a white pickup truck and drove off. Just as Tony's friend jotted down the license number. Wow. The next day, they phoned Detective Mary Wilson, who had been the only investigator with the Indianapolis police to really give these missing persons cases any serious attention. Well, something's obviously off, because while walking around the block and do all that weird stuff. Right. And it's safe to say Mary was like impressed with their sleuthing. I mean, like, he caused a distraction.

He got him outside. They took the license number and learned the truck was registered to a man named Herbert Baumeister. Herbert Baumeister was a 48 year old married father of three, and a businessman who founded a chain of successful Indianapolis area thrift stores called Savalot, which made him very wealthy. The business was highly profitable and for the first several years well-managed, but by the mid-90s the Savalot chain was in trouble, and Herb and his family were in trouble. The business was deep in debt and Herb, his wife, and the business were being sued by multiple creditors. Baal Myster didn't have much of a criminal record aside from a charge for conspiracy to commit theft back in 1986 and he was acquitted of that case.

So Detective Wilson is looking at these data polls on Balmyster and the address to which Balmyster's truck was registered was an Indianapolis address of 5356 East 72nd Street. And it was the same address that was on every official document that Detective Wilson pulled up from Savalot Business Documents to other financials. And this address was nowhere near the mansion Tony claimed to have been taken to. But then Detective Wilson found a shoplifting report

from one of the Savalot stores filed in 1994, a report that had been filled out not by Balmyster but by his employees. On the address they put down for Balmyster was 111 East 156 Street, right in the same neighborhood that Tony had described. Detective Wilson and her partner, Detective Thomas Green, drove out to the property which was called Fox Hollow Farm. The outside of the property and the driveway resembled Tony's description to a tea.

There were three vehicles parked at the property which was a stone mansion and a bunch of dogs began barking as soon as they pulled up the gravel driveway. Everything fit the description. When the detectives noticed a young man watching from the upstairs window she called out, sorry wrong address and they pulled away not wanting to create any suspicion. Wait, someone was there? Well, was it someone or was it a mannequin? After gathering additional information on Balmyster from some of his colleagues past and present, a picture began to emerge of an arrogant eccentric who would lie through his teeth and sooner be condemned

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easy way. By going to rocketm money dot com slash husband. That's rocket money dot com slash husband, rocket money dot com slash husband. Detective Wilson met with Tony and showed him pictures of Balmyster asking if he was the man who had called himself Brian smart. He thought it might be, but he couldn't be 100% sure he said. She then showed his photo around at bars and nearly all the bartenders told her they'd seen him around. Yeah, that's Brian, or that's Mike, or that's Bill. So he was an on and off again regular she learned who used

various aliases. It was becoming more and more likely that Balmyster was the man Tony had spent that scary night with and was the man responsible for the disappearance of gay men around Indianapolis over the past two years. How do you prove that though? I mean there's no bodies. There's no DNA anywhere. I just don't know how you prove that. I mean obviously it seems obvious or I don't know if I don't even know if it seems obvious, but it seems likely that I was him. Yeah, but I there's zero evidence. You'd have to get a confession. Yeah, there's nothing. So the detectives entered a Savilot store one afternoon

and requested to speak with her, the owner. And a few minutes later, he appeared and after they introduced themselves and explained they were investigating a missing person's case, Valmeister told them he'd be happy to cooperate. But at the moment, he was a little busy. He asked if they could come back later that afternoon. His voice quivered and his smile was

forced. To these seasoned detectives, it looked like Herb was spooked, which, to them, seemed extremely guilty. But not wanting to let on that he was a suspect, she told him no problem and she and her partner went to lunch. When they returned to the store, Herb sat behind the desk and listened, as the detectives explained they were investigating the disappearances of several men from Indianapolis bars and they believed he may know something about it. Herb-Bammeister seemed offended when he told them he'd never been to a gay bar in his life. I'm not gay so I don't really know why you've come to me," he said. Detective Wilson then let him know she meant business and wasn't there to play games.

Herb, she said, we know you've been in the bars. We've got your license plate number from your car when it was parked outside of one. Which instantly read flags all over the plate. Herb tried to act casual, but the detectives could both see his face turning red and his breathing quietly heavy. Finally, he sighed and admitted, okay fine, he'd been to the bars, but that his family doesn't know and he wanted to keep it that way. Detective Wilson told him she understood and would respect that, but she really liked an opportunity to search his property at Fox Hollow.

Would that be okay? Herb told her he'd like to cooperate, but it would be best if they talked to his attorney at which point the detectives left. And also, at that point, you tell the family everything. Yeah, at this point, Detective Wilson decided to try approaching her Balmyster's wife, Julie. So she went back to the Savilot store and found his wife working there, appearing overworked and stressed out. She explained that she was investigating a missing person's case and wanted to search her Carmel property. Julie Balmousster appeared shocked by this.

And although Herb had warned her that a disgruntled ex-employee had filed a theft complaint against them, it was a made-up story to give false context to police interaction that he suspected was inevitable. But he had already advised his wife to refuse consenting to a property search if they asked. So she declined. Explaining that this was all a misunderstanding and that an enemy was making false allegations about her husband.

Detective Wilson made it clear that's not the case. That's not what's happening here. We're investigating the disappearance of several men from gay bars in downtown Indianapolis. And her husband frequented these bars. And this information was even more stunning to Julie, who chose not to believe what they were telling her and asked them to leave the store. Which is so weird.

If the cops came and told you something about me, would you believe them or no? Well, if they first came in and said, hey, we're investigating a serial killer that we think is murdering gay men and picking them up from gay bars, I would be like, well, I don't think my husband's gay. So I think you have the wrong person. I just feel like if the police come to you, they obviously know what they're talking

about you usually. Right. Right. I mean, but what evidence can they show her? Yeah, it's true. At this point, Julie goes to her attorney and it's like, hey, they're talking about her, but there's a part of me that wonders, you know, if maybe this is true and the attorney decides to give Detective Mary Wilson a call about his conversation with Julie. He says, I wouldn't give up on this lead if I were you. The attorney then shared a bombshell piece of information. A couple of years earlier, the Balmyster's son had been playing in the woods in their backyard when he found a partially buried skeleton. Oh my gosh.

When Julie brought it to Herb's attention, he explained that the remains had belonged to his father, who was an anesthesiologist, and they had been used for dissecting. He then stored the skeleton inside the garage and re-barried it sometime later. You need to come out here today, the attorney told the detective. That's one of massive search effort was coordinated and authorities from multiple agencies showed up at Fox Hollow because Julie was now like, yeah, go ahead and search the property. In a collaborative effort to search the grounds. And within a short period of time, the searchers were suddenly finding bones, teeth, and bone

fragments everywhere. By the end of the search, investigators had recovered the remains of at least 11 people, most of whom would later be identified by DNA as men who had gone missing between May, 1993, and March, 1995. Among those men were missing Jeff Jones, Alan Bressard and Roger Goodlett. Also identified were 20-year-old Johnny Bayer, 20-year-old Richard Hamilton, Jr., 31-year-old Manuel Resendes, 28-year-old Stephen Hill, and 45-year-old Mike Kern. Just like that.

Just like that. Two additional men who also went missing from Indianapolis gay bars around this period were 27-year-old Allen Lee Livingston and 34-year-old Jerry Williams-Komer. But they weren't found. I wonder why he didn't try to kill Tony. Maybe it's because Tony was just way stronger than him. And I think that he was drugging them, but Tony dumped the tree. Oh, that's right.

Okay. Yeah. So her Balmyster didn't wait around to be arrested. As the arrest warrant was being filed, Balmyster suddenly disappeared. His whereabouts would remain unknown until two days later on July 3, 1996, when his body was found on the shores of Lake Hurrin in Pineyry, provincial... No way. Yeah, in Ontario, Canada. Her Balmyster had written a suicide note and left it in his parked car before walking down to the beach and firing a bullet into his head and being his life.

His suicide note admitted nothing and made no reference at all to the investigation or the dead body found on the property. Oh my gosh. One of the biggest cop-outs ever. I can't. That happens so much too. A serial killer, someone will go and kill a bunch of people and then go and take their life But in the suits I know it's they go. I don't know what you were talking about. Yeah, I'm innocent

Okay, yeah, obviously So one thing that authorities searched for after this was a massive collection of video tapes that is wife He told the search team he had kept in a closet. She's like you need a look into these She didn't know what was on them tapes that his wife had told the search team he had kept in a closet. She's like, you need to look into these. She didn't know what was on them, but when she led police to the closet, where she claimed they were kept, the shelves were all empty. Herb it seemed to take in those tapes before he'd left. But what he did to them, no one was ever able to determine those tapes were never found. And no one knows quite how many victims,

her bow myster head really claimed Many believe he was also the unidentified serial killer known as the i70 Strangler, who was believed responsible for the murders of at least a dozen men raging in age from 14 all the way up to 42. Men who, like many of the victims, recovered from balmeister's property were known to frequent gay bars and or live vulnerable lifestyles. The i70 Stranglers victims were all found dumped nude, many of them in streams or ditches. And those bodies stopped turning up in 1991, the same year that her balmyster bought the Fox hollow property and started bearing his victims in the backyard. All of those victims were strangled to death. And that is the story of Brian Smart or her about my story.

Well, I was like zero to 100. Mm-hmm. It was like backstory to it. It just got caught so fast. Good on the wife. I'm glad the wife called the attorney and they were able to figure that out. Well, and also good on the attorney to be like,

I'm gonna save my client. Yeah. The wife, and I'm gonna completely throw the husband underneath the bus. Well, I would hope so yeah, yeah And it it's an interesting theory to think that maybe he was the i70 Strangler and then once he bought that property And actually had somewhere to bury them He started burying them on his property instead because all the i70 Strangling's stopped

100% oh yeah, I probably wasn't all right you guys that is our case for this week and we will see you next time with another episode I love it and I hate it goodbye