Murder With My Husband - 281. The Murder of Nicole Lovell

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to an Ono Media podcast. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my husband. I'm Peyton Morland. And I'm Garrett Morland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. Thank you so much to everyone who decided to get a coloring book.

Starting point is 00:00:14 I know they were just small and simple, but really it means so, so much to me that you guys were as excited about those as I was. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Peyton worked really hard on them. So I was pretty excited to see them launch. Thank you for buying them and supporting us. Also, I did just want to clarify, I did work with someone on the book. I didn't make the book, like, online by myself.

Starting point is 00:00:38 I paid someone to help me make the book. Yes. I want to clarify that I did pay someone to help me. Also, we did get some questions about some of the merch that was up on this last time. I actually stream alone on Twitch basically almost every single day. And so the throaty merch that was on murder with my husband was for my personal Twitch stream. So if you had no idea what that was when you got on, that is for my personal Twitch stream. You can go follow me.

Starting point is 00:01:09 Honestly, the link is in my bio in my personal Instagram. But yeah, we just hang out. We have a fun time over there. All right. I guess we'll jump into 10 seconds here. Just a reminder for everyone. If you are interested in bonus content and ad free content, you can check out our Apple subscriptions. Right now there is a free trial.

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Starting point is 00:01:46 I had a migraine this morning. And I was thinking about that big cyst that's in the back of my head. I think I'm going to go to a neurologist and double check it. Because every time, I don't even know if they're migraines. Basically, what happens is it starts on the right side of my eyes and my vision slowly starts going and I can see like particles in the air. Really weird. And then one eye will go completely just gone.

Starting point is 00:02:11 I can't see out of it. And then it moves to my other eye. And then after about like 45 minutes I can see again. So I don't know. I'm going to go get this cis checkout that's in the back of my head. Make sure I'm a okay and get to go. so yeah i just thought i would update everyone and on that note let's hop into this week's episode our sources for this episode are teen vogue dot com people dot com 29 news dot com wset dot com mbc news dot com

Starting point is 00:02:38 collegiate times dot com abc news dot com vocal dot media find a grave ws ls ls cnnnn n n dot com wdbj 7 dot com w hsv dot com and cbs news disclaimer before we begin this episode talk about the murder of a minor, so please listen with care. Okay, so bullying has been a problem for kids probably since the beginning of time. But nowadays, with how connected we are to one another through the internet and social media, bullying has seriously leveled up. Now it doesn't have to be done in person or by someone you even know. Bullying can be faceless, anonymous.

Starting point is 00:03:18 It can hide behind a screen and say horrible things through many different outlets. which is why it is only natural for kids who are being bullied through the internet to turn to the same place for some kind of validation. I know. Adults can bully too. You guys see social media. Yeah. It's a breeding ground.

Starting point is 00:03:38 It's a wild place. So at the same time, social media, chat forms, and messaging apps have also become a safe space for some kids, a place to connect with others who they feel are just like them, for them to speak their minds. but that also poses a different sort of danger because now kids don't have to be out in the real world to meet someone dangerous. They can do it from the comfort of their own bedroom. And the scariest part is that person could be disguising themselves as a true friend when they are anything but. So let's dial back the clock to 2016. We are heading to the town of Blacksburg, Virginia. So 2016, Virginia,

Starting point is 00:04:21 where 13-year-old Nicole Lovell is living with her mother, Tammy Weeks. Now, for most of Nicole's life, it has just been her and her mom, Tammy. She's never really had a relationship with her father. He was in and out of jail for a lot of Nicole's 13 years of life at this point, which must have been really hard on Tammy, who was working as a nurse trying to support her daughter as a single mother. Now, thankfully, Nicole had one. wonderful grandparents who lived close by and who were always willing to help out.

Starting point is 00:04:56 Growing up, Nicole took a real interest in music, singing, and dancing. She actually had dreams of one day going on American Idol. And while Nicole brought this bright light, this breath of fresh air with her into every room she entered, her 13 years on earth had been anything but easy this far. as a baby Nicole was diagnosed with a rare tumor in her liver when she was just 10 months old she went through a terrifying liver transplant surgery to save her life something about babies having cancers really gets me which obviously meant that every single day since then Nicole was on an anti-rejection medication for the transplant and this was something she couldn't live with out. But the medical problems continued from there. When Nicole was just four years old, the universe threw her another curveball when she was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, a type of blood cancer. Following more complications, Nicole ended up in a coma for six months,

Starting point is 00:06:05 where she then developed a staff infection. So needless to say, Nicole had spent a lot of her life in and out of doctor's offices and hospitals, though when it came to school, Nicole had no interest in being there either, mainly because she was constantly getting bullied, particularly over the scars that her surgery had left her as a baby on her stomach, which is why she often had her mom writing her notes to get her out of gym class. So when she was changing in the locker room, the other girls wouldn't see the scars. But this bullying took a toll on Nicole, who began posting things on her social media pages, indicating that she didn't feel loved, that nobody cared about her. Nicole's mom, Tammy, felt a big part of those feelings also came from the fact

Starting point is 00:06:54 that Nicole never really had a relationship with her father. But Tammy seemed to be well aware of the challenges Nicole was facing at school and online. She seemed to tell her all about the bullying and that she was filling down on herself. So Tammy made sure that if she wasn't home, Nicole's grandparents were so she would never be left home alone, that Nicole was always supervised. She had someone there to love and support her even if she was feeling down, which is why January 27th, 2016, came as such a shock to Nicole's family. That Wednesday morning, around 7 a.m., Tammy went into Nicole's room to get her up for school. Now, remember, she's 13 years old at this point. But when she went to open Nicole's door, she noticed it was stuck.

Starting point is 00:07:45 Nicole had pushed her nightstand in front of the door so Tammy couldn't get in. Whoa. Now, obviously knowing that at this point in her life, her 13-year-old daughter was struggling, this, of course, sent Tammy's heart racing. When she finally got the dresser moved out of the way and into Nicole's room, Tammy saw that the window was open. And a blanket Nicole always used, one with the minions characters on it, was also missing. Tammy had last checked on Nicole the night before at around midnight when she came in and kissed her good night.

Starting point is 00:08:21 So she knew she must have snuck out sometime between midnight and 7 a.m. But the question was, where did she go? And more importantly, did she actually sneak out on our own? Or had someone forced her out? Had she gone out with someone else? Tammy spent the day calling Nicole, but her phone was going straight to voicemail. So Tammy started calling Nicole's friends. They all said they hadn't seen or heard from her either.

Starting point is 00:08:46 Same thing happened when Tammy went door to door around the neighborhood. No one had seen Nicole. But there was one thing that told Tammy that Nicole was probably planning to be home by that afternoon. She was like, I just need to wait for afternoon to come. That was the fact that Nicole had left her medicament. at home, the one that she needed to take every single day for her liver transplant. This was life or death. So Tammy goes to the police later that afternoon and tells them, hey, my daughter is missing. I'm hoping that she's going to come home to get this medication. But if she doesn't,

Starting point is 00:09:24 this is bad. Like, it's bad. She's going to get very, very sick. And so the police immediately take Nicole's disappearance very seriously. So they begin searching the area. and scanning Nicole's house for clues that same day. And that's when Tammy gets a tip from one of Nicole's friends' parents. So one of her friends' parents calls and says, when your daughter was over the other day, she mentioned that she was going on a date with someone, but I don't know who.

Starting point is 00:09:54 So at this point, Tammy panics. Nicole had never mentioned dating someone to her before. She's only 13. She had no information to provide the police with about this beyond the fact that a friend's mother had called and shared this. Now, at the same time, they decide to ask for the public's help in finding Nicole. Now, I'm not sure if you picked up on this, but Blacksburg, Virginia, where Nicole lives, is where Virginia Tech is.

Starting point is 00:10:22 And it's where they had a mass shooting back in 2007. So the community has dealt with heartbreaking crimes before, and they're pretty good at stepping up when the rest of the community needs it. And Nicole's case is no different. By the following day, more than 1,200 people are out looking for Nicole. And yes, I said the following day, which means she didn't come home to take her medication. Do you know anything along the lines of how long she can survive without her medication? Are you not sure?

Starting point is 00:10:53 She will start getting very sick. There's not like a definite timeline, but she's going to get pretty sick within hours of when she was supposed to be taking it. Okay. So 1,200 people show up to look for Nicole. Volunteers bring drones to help with the search. And two days after that, local police finally get a call. And that call is saying Nicole has been found, but not in the state anyone had hoped. 90 miles away.

Starting point is 00:11:21 Whoa, that's far. Along a highway in Surrey County, North Carolina, right on the border of Virginia, someone found Nicole's lifeless body. She, at 13, had been stripped of her clothes and left on the side of the road. An autopsy determines she had been stabbed 14 times with a fatal blow to the neck. Now, despite not having clothes on, there are no signs that Nicole was sexually assaulted. But I can't imagine how Nicole's friends and family must be feeling when they get this news. it's interesting because she it seems like she wanted to leave her room so I'm curious

Starting point is 00:12:05 that she was lured out if something went wrong when she snuck out right I mean yeah I think this is just especially heartbreaking because Nicole is someone who's already been through so much in her life she's already fought so hard for her life by the time she's 13 years old and now it's just taken away. Yeah. And now something like this happens. Devastating is an understatement, but what this means for police is Nicole's missing person's case is officially a homicide investigation. And luckily for them, they actually already have someone in custody. So I want to back up a bit just to three days earlier. The day Nicole was reported missing. Because local police were so on top of the investigation starting from day one, they actually had the FBI and the

Starting point is 00:12:56 police working with them on the case right away. And they quickly found something interesting in Nicole's bedroom. Now inside her closet, Nicole had actually etched something into the door. It was a message that said, I love David. Now, of course, the name of the crush isn't enough for the police to act on, but this isn't the only thing they find written inside the closet door. Nicole has also scribbled down all of the usernames and passwords to her online. accounts. Now this is important. That's interesting. Because Tammy had mentioned to police that in 2016, Nicole had spent a lot of time online like most teenagers, but recently it had seemed to be ramping up a little bit more. Did you ever write down your username and passwords?

Starting point is 00:13:44 I don't think so, but I was like a teenager that had the same username and password for everything. But that's just I find that interesting. I think if I had like multiple accounts and accounts that my parents didn't know of, then maybe I would have written passwords down. Yeah, I guess I'm trying to figure out if she did it because she thought she might have been in danger or if she did it just to memorize them. Right. I do also think, though, like 2016 was still a little bit early social media days for teenagers and parents. And so Tammy tells police, since she knew Nicole was being bullied at school, she suspected that whoever she snuck out to meet that night, probably to go on. on a date with was someone she most likely met online and not from school.

Starting point is 00:14:29 So immediately, police log in to Nicole's accounts to see if they can track her messages. And they find one app that Nicole had been using a lot in the days before her disappearance. It was an anonymous messaging app called Kick. Now, if you don't remember Kick, it might have been before your time. And I think you were obviously already graduate. Yeah, I don't think. So you were probably just texting. I've heard of Kik, but I don't know much about it, to be honest. Kick was definitely popular for me in like middle school, high school. It was like a people, you used it? It was a way for people to message without their parents knowing. Because parents at

Starting point is 00:15:08 that point were still so oblivious. They didn't realize that you could like find apps to message and not use text messages. Okay. They were just aware of like texts and snap and some people, some parents weren't even aware of Snapchat. Yeah. But like WhatsApp, Kik, that was used to message people with. without your parents snooping through it if they took your phone. Yeah. So the FBI puts in an emergency disclosure request with KIC to try and get Nicole's messaging history. And what they find is that over the last several months, Nicole had been messaging a lot

Starting point is 00:15:40 with a user that was going by the name Dr. Tombstone. And when they get more information about the person behind Dr. Tombstone, they find that it matches with what Nicole had written in her call. closet that I love David because it turns out Dr. Tombstone is actually an 18 year old Virginia Tech freshman named David Eisenhower. How disgusting. He's 18 and he's going after 13 year olds. That's disgusting, man. So on paper, David definitely doesn't seem like a guy who would cause trouble. He was a big high school track star. He was a straight A student with a lot of charisma. Most people just saw him as the cocky jock who thought he was hot stuff. David even continued.

Starting point is 00:16:24 continued his cross-country career when he went to Virginia Tech in the fall of 2015 while he was also earning his engineering degree. But still, police know he's a person of interest, considering in the two days before Nicole went missing, their correspondence was at its peak. So Virginia State Police and the FBI pay a little visit to David's dorm room the day after Nicole is reported missing. And while he isn't there, his roommate, Jeremy, is. So they sit down with Jeremy and they ask him a few questions. And what they learn is that on the night Nicole snuck out and disappeared, Jeremy noticed David putting on these big rain boots, even though it wasn't raining outside, and he left. And he didn't come back to the dorm until after 2 a.m. that night. Jeremy also tells police, David actually has this knife that he would leave

Starting point is 00:17:21 out on top of his desk, though police notice it's not there at the moment. Now remember, this is all happening before Nicole's body is found. So they don't even know if a knife is a murder weapon yet, but they have a real sneaking suspicion that David is involved in Nicole's disappearance some way, somehow. So obviously the next step in the investigation is tracking David down. And they actually find him and bring him in for questioning later that day. Now, during that interview, David admits he was talking to Nicole on kick. And he did go meet up with her at her home the night she went missing. But he says the second she snuck outside her window and he saw her, he realized that she had been lying to him about her age. He did not know

Starting point is 00:18:13 that she was a 13-year-old seventh grader. Oh. So when she comes outside and he sees her, he claims he left immediately before they even hung out. At least that's what he claimed. But Nicole's kick app actually told an entirely different story. Now, as I mentioned, it showed that she and David had been speaking for months.

Starting point is 00:18:33 And at this point, David doesn't know that they have the entire history of their messages. I think probably at that time, he didn't realize that was even. possible. Like once something's deleted, it's not deleted. So he thought he could say what he wanted to try to get away with it, but not going to happen. As I mentioned, it showed that she and David had been speaking for months and that they had met at least one other time before that night. Meaning David's story about showing up and seeing her for the first time

Starting point is 00:19:03 and realizing she lied and leaving, it didn't track because he came over a second time to see her. Plus, when Nicole's body was found on January 30th, police realized it was just four miles away from David's grandparents' house in North Carolina, which means they believe they have more than enough to arrest the 18-year-old David for Nicole's death. He himself has admitted he went to her house the night she disappeared.

Starting point is 00:19:29 He lied about her lying, about her age, and then also the body was only four miles away from where David could have been. But really, even though they just arrested him, investigators had only just started building their case. So the day after Nicole's body was found on January 31st, police searched David's 2008 Lexus. And in the trunk of that car, they discovered blood stains on the carpet, blood on a snack wrapper, and a package of cleaning wipes. And perhaps the most damning in the car, a shovel with blood on the carpet. handle. Now, after examining David's computer, they found he had performed several searches

Starting point is 00:20:14 online recently for how to burn a body. Oh my gosh. And he had searched for how bodies were disposed of on the TV show Dexter. I'm confused. Like, was he always planning on killing her, that he just wanted to kill her? Was he just scared because he knew she was on her age and then he was going to kill her after he had I don't know after he had sexual relations with her with her like I don't motive yeah motive we'll get there so following Nicole's autopsy investigators also learned David's DNA was found under Nicole's fingernails so the case against David Eisenhower was really really strong but there was something else found on the shovel it was a bloody handprint that didn't belong to David or Nicole.

Starting point is 00:21:08 They realize, oh, someone else is definitely involved in this. And they find prints that also matched that handprint on a bleach container found in the backseat of David's car. So this just went from like an older guy targeting a younger girl to possible group of people targeting a younger girl, which just brings this case to a whole another level. So when they discover these prints, they actually find the owner of them very easily. because they belonged to someone David had actually mentioned a few times in his interview with police. He claims that this person was with him the night that he had bought that shovel that was found in his car,

Starting point is 00:21:48 and it was another Virginia Tech freshman, 19-year-old Natalie Keepers. Now, Natalie was also an engineering student who had dreams of following in her father's footsteps and working for NASA one day. But when she met David Eisenhower, who was in her same program, everything changed for her. While they appeared to be nothing more than friends, it seemed like Natalie had kind of fallen under David's spell a little bit. After David mentioned Natalie's name and hinted at the possibility that she was with him, the night Nicole disappeared, police executed a search warrant for Natalie's dorm room as well. And it's there that they find a gray suitcase that's sounding some alarm bells for them. So they open it and inside they find it has a blue gym bag with blood stains on it.

Starting point is 00:22:43 So they open up the gym bag that was inside the suitcase and inside of that they find that minion blanket that belonged to Nicole that her mom said was missing out of her bedroom. the ones she most likely took with her the night she snuck out. And that blanket has bloodstains on it. So the day after Nicole's body is found on January 31st, Natalie Keepers is now arrested to because there is now physical evidence tying the crime to both of these freshmen. So she is charged with improper disposal of a body and accessory after the fact. But with David Eisenhower not sharing very much with police,

Starting point is 00:23:24 there was still the question of what had actually happened that night and why and someone will crack I feel like when you have young kids or young teens people who are 18 to 25 whatever I feel like they crack I feel like they the fear starts to set in and they'll all start routing on each other pretty soon right so police keep digging they want a motive and they want to figure out exactly what happened that night. So they find some witnesses who say everything that happened that night was actually not a spur of the moment decision, which is the question you were wondering. It seemed like as police began digging, David had actually been planning on killing Nicole

Starting point is 00:24:09 for some time now. Oh, my crap. That is so wild to me. So one of the girls that police talk to that kind of help lead them to this theory is an 18-year-old girl named Bailey Browning, who had also met David in an online chat room. Now, the two of them were communicating between December 2015 and January 2016, but in that short period of time, David had confided in Bailey that he had plans to murder a girl. Would you tell somebody that?

Starting point is 00:24:42 Now, Bailey says David never mentioned Nicole Lovell or Natalie Keepers by name, but he did say he had someone who would help him in this murder plot. Did she not think that was a little weird, by the way? Yes, but I want you to keep in mind that sometimes when people talk online, it feels like fantasy world and not real life. Yeah, I can understand that. Like, although that's weird, relationships can be created online that just like don't actually make sense in real life.

Starting point is 00:25:11 And people don't realize that they're like. If someone ever told me they were going to kill someone, I'd be like, oh, I got to go. Bye. Same. But I don't know. Yeah. It's not the first time that someone has like talked about murder online or confessed about murder and people don't go to the police. I mean, if you go on Reddit, there are some insane things on there that shouldn't be on there, but here we are.

Starting point is 00:25:34 Yeah. Bailey also tells police that he referenced a friend that had, quote, military knowledge. Now, whether he was talking about Natalie or someone else, it's unclear. But it was proving that this was not second degree murder if he had clearly talked about committing murder. it's premeditated. Something that was confirmed further when police spoke to another one of David's friends. So this was not some little dirty secret David was keeping. He was talking about this to people.

Starting point is 00:26:03 They talked to a guy named Bryce Dustin, and the 21-year-old Bryce had met David six years ago back on a gaming site. And even though the two had never met in person, they did get extremely close over the years playing games online, talking about life, giving each other advice. Specifically, David would go to Bryce with his girl problems. Now, Bryce told police that a few months before Nicole disappeared, David had begun talking him about his problems with one particular girl who David was seeing that was underage.

Starting point is 00:26:36 And David was worried because she was threatening to expose him if he didn't agree to date her. So Bryce said he gave some interesting advice. he told David, well, just let this 13-year-old think you're together and that he should just be a bad boyfriend and wait for her to break up with him. Now, clearly, David did not take this advice. Instead, David texted Bryce one day and asked if he had any idea where he could hide a dead body and said something like, yeah, the original plan failed. Now, what that original plan is is obviously unclear. One thing was certain, however, David had been planning this out for a while and with David refusing to talk, there was only one other person who could

Starting point is 00:27:22 offer up the details of what happened that night. And that was Natalie Keepers. So after a bit of pressure, Natalie starts to open up to police about the conversations between her and David. She says that David had confessed that there was this 13 year old girl he had met online and he had a relationship with. He also said he, quote, might have had sex with her at a party, but he couldn't really remember. But come January 2016, he wasn't just afraid she was going to expose him for statutory rape. He was afraid she might actually be pregnant.

Starting point is 00:27:59 So that's when Natalie and David started talking about ways to solve this problem. And they decided the only way was to kill the 13-year-old girl and move her body across state lines to North Carolina and hope no one would find her. The only way. No other solutions. That is the only solution we got. So police are like, okay, Natalie, why would you help David?

Starting point is 00:28:20 What do you, what does this get you? And she's like, well, I'm pretty sure David's a sociopath, and I think I'm a sociopath in training. So she's like, well, we're just two little sociopathic friends. What else would we do besides murder? So the night before Nicole disappeared, they started plotting. They went to a restaurant called Cookout and over some burgers and shakes talked about how they would execute this plan.

Starting point is 00:28:48 This is crazy. Absolutely devastating and disgusting. People like this exist in the world. And like find each other and are like, yeah, let's just have some ice cream and talk about murdering a child. Like right now, for sure, there's two people at McDonald's just talking about how much they want to kill someone. And that blows my mind and is pretty scary.

Starting point is 00:29:09 It is so interesting how many cases we have covered where to... random people meet and then murder. And I think when you meet someone else like that, it both elevates their thoughts, right? It takes it to a new level. Probably would have taken some time to come forward. Not saying they wouldn't have killed, but I think it speeds it up, it elevates things. Yes, I would agree with that. So they decide that David would lure Nicole out of her home later that night.

Starting point is 00:29:42 That night, like as they're planning this, later that. that night, he would drive her to a remote location and then he would use a knife to kill her. And so after they paid the bill at dinner, Natalie and David got in his car and drove to Walmart to buy a shovel. Then they went driving around looking for a remote location for David to take Nicole to. Then he dropped Natalie off at campus and went back out later that night to carry out their plan. What's helpful is police are able to confirm most of what. Natalie says about this encounter through David's GPS on his car and security footage from inside all of these locations. The GPS confirms they went from cookout to Walmart.

Starting point is 00:30:27 Footage at both shows the two of them inside, first sitting and plotting over dinner and then purchasing the shovel at Walmart. Then the GPS showed them driving near Nicole's house to a location off of Craig Creek Road, which was believed to be the place David killed Nicole. I mean, this is open and shot. Then the GPS showed them back at Virginia Tech campus that morning at around 212 a.m. on January 27th. But then obviously, just like Natalie said, David left again. Presumably this is when he dropped Natalie off because she insists she was not present for the kidnapping or the murder. Instead, Natalie said that David came back to get her the following morning.

Starting point is 00:31:08 They went back to Walmart this time to buy cleaning supplies and gloves. And then she went with David to dispose of the boss. not far from his grandparents' place on the border of North Carolina and Virginia. So with this confession from Natalie Keepers, prosecutors fill they have a strong enough case against both her and David, though it takes two more years for David to go to trial. It is February 2018 when David finally gets his day in court. And the defense works really hard to try and pin a lot of the crime on Natalie Keepers

Starting point is 00:31:43 by making this seem like it was her idea. They point to evidence that suggests maybe she was more involved because Nicole's blanket and phone charger were found in her dorm room. But they also point to her bloody handprint on the shovel as an indication that how is her handprint bloody on the shovel

Starting point is 00:32:00 if she wasn't there when Nicole was murdered and died. That's actually a good point. I'm not going to lie. But if she helped bury the body, she might have got blood on her hand while using the shovel. wouldn't I guess I don't know enough about the because she said it was the next morning though

Starting point is 00:32:17 wouldn't a lot of the blood be dried at that point I mean you there's more to it but just just thoughts out there they said David was actually easily influenced and it was Natalie who was the mastermind behind this that he never would have done this on his own they also called a psychiatrist to the stand who despite never having met Natalie or David said they didn't believe David showed signs of psychopathy but Natalie did. Okay, expert. They said there was evidence that David had a hard time making decisions on his own without guidance or clearly defined objectives. And that's why they thought Natalie was the mastermind. There was, however, a clinical neuropsychologist who had three sessions with David and somewhat

Starting point is 00:32:59 agreed as well. They testified that David had autism spectrum disorder and would have been easily influenced by someone like Natalie Keepers. But during cross-examination, the prosecution pointed out that David certainly wasn't influenced by police officers who interviewed him right after his arrest, as he lied to them a bunch of times about how he interacted with Nicole that night. Now, regardless of who pressured who, all of the evidence indicated that David was the one who committed the crime, which is why during his trial, David actually changed his plea from not guilty to known contest for those first degree murder charges and he was sentenced to 50 years in prison for his crime.

Starting point is 00:33:38 Okay. Natalie was obviously up next. Her trial began seven months later. This is so sad, by the way. Like, I don't know. She was pleading not guilty to accessory. And Natalie's lawyers argued that the only reason she participated in the discussion about killing Nicole was because she was afraid to lose her friendship with David. They also said Natalie was in love with David and that the murder would have happened whether Natalie had discussed it with him or not.

Starting point is 00:34:06 But text messages exchanged between David and Netflix. Natalie, after the fact, showed there was more to it. After the murder, Natalie congratulated David and said, quote, get some sleep because you deserve it. However, Natalie's trial played out a lot like David's did before he changed his plea, psychological experts, a lot of disorders. There was one big reveal at Natalie's trial, though. The medical examiner testified that there was no evidence Nicole was pregnant when she died. still that didn't change the vicious nature of this crime the jury took barely an hour to come back

Starting point is 00:34:42 and in the end they found her guilty of being an accessory to murder and she was given 40 years in prison for her role in Nicole Lovell's death it's so sad because as a mom too like it's just heartbreaking like she fights her whole life to keep her her girl her child alive who's already had such a hard life only to be murdered that's a lot to process well and along with this. Tammy Weeks also just really struggled with the motive. She's like, why would two pretty smart, like academically smart college kids target my 13 year old daughter? Which is, I mean, it's a good question. They're like, why would they have so much hate in their heart for her when they barely knew her? And it's one of those things that it's almost unexplainable. I mean,

Starting point is 00:35:28 I mean, there's reasons behind it, but I think this is the thing about bullying the weather in person or online, it's typically a reflection of how someone else sees themselves, not actually the other person. Because most of the time, bullying comes from a place of someone's own insecurities, someone's own unhappiness with themselves, someone's own fears and doubts. But the most dangerous bullies are the ones in disguise, the people that mask themselves as friends, as confidants, as, you know, a boyfriend online. They hide behind. the anonymity of a computer screen. So next time you chat with a stranger,

Starting point is 00:36:08 just keep that in mind. You never know who could be on the other end. If you or someone you know is being bullied, you can text connect to 741-7-4-1-7-4-1 for free confidential 24-7 mental health support. I didn't know this. Amazing. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:27 And honestly, that is the case of Nicole Lovell, but I just, the motive actually makes no sense. I really do think that there's just something wrong in their brains. Yeah, no, they are killers. Yeah. I think they're just bad people. Hopefully they never get out of prison and they're there for the rest of their lives because, and maybe some people would disagree. But I feel like if you are doing that type of stuff at that age, I think it just escalates.

Starting point is 00:36:56 I think as they get older, like I think it starts getting crazier and crazier. I don't know, I mean, I think some people would disagree and like, well, their brains aren't fully developed and yada, yada, yada, but planning to kill someone at 18 is pretty wild. But they also didn't just kill another 18 year old. That's the thing that they killed a child.

Starting point is 00:37:13 A 13 year old. Yeah. That's young. That is so young. And him being ooh, so scared because she's going to tattle on me. You shouldn't have slept with a 13 year old. Yeah, that's the other thing. He was also sleeping with a 13 year old. Let me reiterate. You shouldn't have raped a 13 year old. What a. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:30 get out of here. Like I there's just you can't even like no it's disgusting it's gross and also just keeping in mind that at 13 years old you see the good in people you don't have enough like dating experience in life to think that that people could be so horrendous to you so there was no reason for her not to believe that he didn't love her or care about her especially if there had been a physical connection. It's actually heart wrenching. Yeah. All right, you guys, that was the case and we will see you next time with another one.

Starting point is 00:38:06 I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye.

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Murder With My Husband - 281. The Murder of Nicole Lovell

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