Murder With My Husband - 287. The Fatal Fantasy - The Murder of Jennifer Ramsaran

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

On this episode, Garrett and Payton uncover the case of Jennifer Ramsaran - a wife and mother whose obsession with online gaming began to unravel her real-world life. When she suddenly vanishes after going to the mall, investigators are left racing to piece together the chilling truth behind her disappearance. Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: Oxygen.com - https://www.oxygen.com/dateline-unforgettable/crime-news/ganesh-remy-ramsaran-killed-wife-jennifer-ramsaran NBCNews.com - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-overturns-murder-case-lawyer-google-interview-rcna138877 NBC.com - https://www.nbc.com/nbc-insider/bombshell-new-story-told-about-murdered-jennifer-ramsaran Syracuse.com - https://www.syracuse.com/crime/2024/02/central-ny-engineer-twice-found-guilty-of-killing-his-wife-to-speak-out-on-dateline.html Yahoo.com - https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/articles/prison-easy-man-killed-wife-000034461.html CNYCentral.com - https://cnycentral.com/news/local/judge-orders-new-trial-for-man-convicted-in-wifes-2012-killing-in-chenango-county-ganesh-remy-ramsaran-jennifer-ramsaran-ibm-manager WNBF.com - https://wnbf.com/ganesh-ramsaran/ PressConnects.com - https://www.pressconnects.com/story/news/public-safety/2017/10/12/appeals-court-decides-against-reversing-ramsaran-murder-conviction/757151001/ Dateline NBC - https://podcasts.happyscribe.com/dateline-nbc/the-perfect-life Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox is an eight-episode Hulu original limited series that blends gripping pacing with emotional complexity, offering a dramatized look as it revisits the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox for the tragic murder of Meredith Kircher and the relentless media storm that followed. The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus. You're listening to an Ono Media podcast. All right. We have a big announcement. We have merch. Not just any merch. It is spooky season. Merch. It's out right now. You can go and buy it. There is some amazing stuff. Honestly, I don't even know how much stock we have. So hopefully, if you want some, you get some. We have some. Payton's been wearing it. I've been wearing it. It's amazing. Yeah, it is Murder with My Husband's annual Halloween merch drop.

Honestly, I think it's the best Halloween March drop we have done yet. The theme is kind of that Halloween is never over because this is murder with my husband and we are year round. The options are so super cute. They're comfy. Again, it is good quality. We've really upped our game in that department. And so yeah, go check it out if you are looking for spooky clothes. We love you guys. Thank you for supporting us. And if you don't want some, that's okay

too. Hey everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my husband. I'm Peyton Morland. And I'm Garrett Morland. And he's the husband. I'm the husband. You're watching on YouTube and Garrett and I look like we got run over by a train. We did. We actually did. I got ran over by a train. But I'm okay. Yeah. There's nothing more to it. No, we didn't. We've both just been. You know, we've just been Peyton, Payton can't move. She's got back issues and I'm doing pretty good actually. I got some eye issues. But other than that, I'm doing okay.

But I always have eye issues. But not that we're going to say her and complain about our problems, but we might because we can and this is our podcast. And we can basically say whatever we want. So my eyes really dry and it really hurts. Payton can't move because her back hurts. So together. we're just not doing anything today but we are recording and that's what we got going thank you for supporting us um if you've been on apple spotify slash or patreon recently um we've been releasing

we have been releasing a lot of bonus episodes because we are catching up from some bonus episodes we didn't do last month but yeah we released a bunch hope everyone likes them thank you for to those. Thank you for listening in general. Thank you for being here. That's all I have. All right. I think that takes us into your 10 seconds for today. Real quick, for my 10 seconds, to those that do come up and say hi to us in public, we love it. Thank you for coming and saying hi. I think what I'm going to start doing is every week, the people that come up to us and say hi. Maybe I'll say your names on the podcast, you know? Because honestly, the main reason is I'm trying to be better at when someone tells me their name. I remember it because I kid you not. I will meet

someone. I'll shake their hand. They'll tell me their name. It goes in one ear and out the other. So I was going to start with two people that came and said hi to us at Cheesecake Factory, but I swear I knew their names and then now I can't remember. But I know their faces and I think they probably know I'm talking about them. So if I and they honestly live close to where we live too. But if I saw their faces, I'd recognize them. I just can't remember their names, and I'm really sorry. But that's my new goal. So if you see us, come say hi to us, and you will get a shout out on the podcast.

If you're the two people that we just forgot the names of, this is your shout out, and you're nameless. Let's hop into today's podcast. Our sources for this episode areoxygen.com, NBCNews.com, NBC.com, Syracuse.com, Yahoo.com, CnYCentral.com, WNBF.com, PressConnects.com, and Dateline. You know, sometimes life does not go in the direction that we hoped it would. Maybe we form new hobbies or interests that have let us down a new path. Maybe our priorities change once we have kids. Maybe the person we married is no longer the person we're in love with.

And you know what? Life changes and it happens. There is no way for us to know what the future holds or how we will feel about it when the time comes. What is important, though, is how we handle it. Making a huge life change can be hard. It sometimes feels impossible to move to a new city or change a career, get a divorce. Those things are never easy, but they are part of life.

They're part of adulthood. There are moments where our inner strength is put to the test. And what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right? but some people cannot handle the pressures of life. And as we'll see in today's case, while their decisions maybe didn't kill them, a coward's decision could lead to the death of someone else. So the year is 2012.

We are in New Berlin, New York. It's a small little town with around 1,000 people about a four-hour drive northwest of New York City. And there, 36-year-old Jen Remseran is living with her three young kids and her husband of 13 years, 37-year-old Ganesh, who went by Remy. Now, Jen is a stay-at-home mom while her husband Remy works at IBM as a project manager. Jen is really active in their kids' lives, always trying to make new memories for them, on top of always cooking for them and being a Martha Stewart, those words exactly, around the home as some people described her. She was also a Sunday school teacher, a knitting instructor, and she was very involved in her

daughter's Girl Scout troop. She made friends with some of the moms through that. Women who said that Jen was always incredibly friendly, someone you could feel instantly connected and comfortable with. Side note, if anyone wants to sell me Girl Scout cookies, I don't know when, I always forget when they come out, I hope I didn't miss it. Some E.D.M. I'll buy like 50 boxes of thin mints. Jen is described as the kind of person who was always there for you if you needed something. And this is where she became particularly close with one mom named Eileen Sells,

who actually got to know Jen and her family pretty well. Jen and her husband, Remy, had met and fallen in love back in college. and everyone who knew them, including Eileen, her current 2012 friend, said they were kind of an interesting match. Remy was loud, he was kind of a showman, and Jen was exactly the opposite. She was quiet and reserved. Remy said that there were times where people would walk up to Jen

and jokingly apologize for having to put up with Remy and his quirky behavior. But as most couples do, Remy had his own hobbies and interests that didn't exactly appeal to Jen. Like running marathons. Remy had been doing them since he was 11 years old, and it was always a way for him to blow off steam after a long week. In just one year alone, he had run 26 marathons, a 5K on a Saturday, followed by a 10K on a Sunday.

Running was just as much a part of Remy's life as his own family was. And oftentimes, Jen and his kids actually came out to support, and cheer him on as he crossed the finish line. To anyone who watched Jen and Remy as a couple, they looked like the perfect loving, supportive couple. Like nothing could break them. Nothing could tear this world they had built apart. That is, until December of 2012.

Tuesday, December 11th, started out like any other day for the family. Jen's 10-year-old son, Glenn, said good morning to his mom, and he went to make his breakfast and lunch for the day. Jen got the other two kids ready, then they all hopped into Remy's car, and he drove the kids to school. Now, at around 8 a.m. that morning, Remy said he got back to the house

and he saw his wife Jen having cereal and yogurt in the kitchen. She told Remy that her plan for the day was to drive to the Destiny USA Mall in Syracuse. This is about 60 miles away from their home. It honestly was a bit of a drive with a lot of winding back roads that could be icy and rough in December. But she told him they had nicer stores than their local mall. She wanted to pick out a Christmas dress for their young daughter. Remy said he went on to answer a few calls for work that morning at the house.

And then Jen said goodbye around 10.30 a.m. and hopped into her red Chrysler minivan to go Christmas shopping. Now, throughout the afternoon, though, Remy claims he sends Jen a few texts that she doesn't respond to. Not thinking much of it at first, he says he works on a project for work and then goes for a run down to the local YMCA. Before you know it, it is 5 p.m.

The kids are home from school, but Jen is still not home from school. shopping. It's starting to get dark, and Remy thinks his wife should have been home by now to have dinner with the family, only she's still not answering his texts. So this is when he begins to panic. He calls the only other person she might have reached out to that day. The one person, Jen, talks to as much as about she speaks to her own husband, her best friend, Eileen sells, the mother who she met through her daughter's Girl Scout troop. Now, Eileen tells Remy.

She hasn't spoken to Jen all day either. She has no idea where Jen could be. Now, Remy is beginning to wonder. Could Jen have gotten into a bad car accident along the way? What if something is wrong? So he dials 911 at this point. And he tells them, quote, My wife left this morning between 10 and 11,

and she hasn't been back and I'm really freaked out. This is totally unlike her. and none of our friends have heard from her. So that evening, officers actually tell him to hang tight while they start looking into accident reports and checking hospitals en route to the mall. Now, meanwhile, Remy says he can hardly sleep that night. He goes to sleep without figuring out where his wife is.

He doesn't know what he's going to tell the kids when they wake up the next morning and their mom still isn't home. The line... That's strange. The line... Remy eventually goes with the next morning is, oh, mom just went out shopping. She isn't back yet. She will be home by the time you guys get back from school today. Now, when Remy checks back in

with the police that morning, they actually don't have any updates for him. There was no sign of Jen in any local hospitals. So Remy starts calling around to his friends to try and get their help and support. And he says one of his work colleagues asks, hey, well, have you checked for her on the find my iPhone app. Now remember this is 2012, so gosh, I'm trying to even remember what most people didn't even know the phone had this. I'm trying to remember what the find my iPhone app or find my friends even looked like. Well, actually it was just find my iPhone. It wasn't even find my friends yet, right? And sharing that location of your iPhone wasn't exactly commonplace yet because I think at this point it was more like, oh my gosh, privacy, turn this off and not like, oh my gosh, you can share

with your friends and this is very common and kids share with their parents. Well, what you could do for find my iPhone is you could log into another phone with your credentials to find your phone if you lost it. Do you remember that? I just remember because I used it one time because I lost my phone in the beach. So I think it was more for like finding your own phone. But if someone was missing, you could log in if you had their information and it was turned on on their phone. You could see where they're at. Yeah. So after dropping the kids off at school, Remy goes. down to the police station and with the police chief there, he gets on to find my iPhone app and kind of messes around. And sure enough, it shows the location of Jen's phone. It says that her device

is about 20 miles away along some stretch of roadway in a town called South Limith. So they send some of their officers out to that area to look around. Only the police come back. They can't find anything. They come back empty handed. Now, when Remy hears this, he's completely dissatisfied. Her phone

says it's out there. So it has to be out there. So he actually goes there himself that day to check the area. And he says he finds his wife's phone pretty quick. He discovers it lying in some overgrowth near an

embankment by a bridge. Only there's no sign of Jen anywhere nearby, near the phone. But as soon as he discovers her phone, he calls the police back to let them know. And then he goes back down to the police station and gives them Jen's phone for evidence. Except there's something odd about the cell phone. Police think it looks pretty undamaged for being tossed into some brush like this? Like who would place phone into brush? They probably threw it. But still, with no further evidence of Jen, the police have to consider a few different possibilities. Was Jen met with foul play? Did she leave intentionally? Perhaps Jen wasn't as happy in her marriage as she seemed. This is a theory that begins to form when police begin investigating her disappearance and hear about a

side hobby that Jen had picked up recently. You know, it's kind of sad because it happens a lot. Not really like people kill people, but like, you never know someone. You never know someone's relationship. You never know who someone is. You never know what's going on. Everyone's just kind of living their own lives and you never know. So police learn that Jen had been playing an online game.

One called Kingdoms of Camelot, where people all over the world play these medieval characters, they team up, they chat with each other. Remy and the kids had noticed that Jen had actually been spending a little too much time on her laptop playing the game recently, honestly spending less time with the family in the evenings or after school. Even her best friend, Eileen, noticed that Jen was retreating from her real life to live in that. that virtual world more and more to the point where it almost kind of started to become an addiction for Jen. She was spending close to eight hours a day, sometimes more, playing this game. She had stopped cooking. She had stopped doing laundry. And Eileen said the game was all Jen could talk about. In fact, during a recent shopping trip together, Jen had told Eileen about someone in particular that she had met through playing this game.

A guy from England named Rob. Jen had even told Eileen that the online relationship was kind of evolving. They had begun flirting. Rob had even told her what kind of cologne he wore. Whoa. So during that shopping trip, Jen told Eileen that she wanted to run into a store and find the cologne for herself so she could smell his scent and what he smelled like.

So she would like have this picture in her head when they talked. You know, honestly, not the weirdest thing. Well, from there, Jen began getting dolled up. She would take pictures of herself, send them to Rob. And at one point, she even told Eileen that Rob was actually thinking about moving to the U.S. just so him and Jen could be a little closer and meet. That's a bigger of a deal. So from what I can tell, though, the two.

two of them had never met up in person before Jen disappeared, but this information is actually worrisome enough that Eileen, when she finds out Jen is missing, knows that she has to share it with police immediately. She believed if Jen hadn't run off to be with Rob somewhere, it was possible that he had come to the States after all and she didn't know what kind of person he was and maybe Rob had met up with her and had hurt her. Everything is unknown at this point, so almost immediately the police try and track this Rob from England guy down. And they find he's actually still in the UK. So they arrange a meeting with him through Interpol and they speak to this guy about Jen and Rob tells investigators he's actually married, but he did have an intimate relationship

with Jen online. He had even sent her money recently to buy herself a Christmas gift. And in return, Jen had mailed him some of her lingerie. Now, Rob also admits he and Jen were talking about meeting up in person soon in New York, but he hadn't booked anything yet. He also said he had been a bit worried, too, because he had noticed that Jen hadn't been online in the last few days. Now, when police break the news about Rob to Remy, Jen's husband, he is furious, especially hearing about the details of this relationship.

but he didn't exactly treat it like he was, like, shocked. Almost like he knew already. Yeah, he had been telling the police that he believed Jen might have run off with someone else. He just didn't, like, specify that it was robbed from England. Okay. He said the two of them had been growing apart and that this game she was playing had been eating up a lot of their time. But on December 16th, five days after Jen was last seen, there is a new discovery in the case that indicates maybe Jen didn't run away at all.

Ever since Jen disappeared, her father, Tom, had just been driving around town every single day looking for any sign of his daughter. And on the 16th, he finally discovers something. Jen's Red Chrysler minivan. It was abandoned in an apartment complex parking lot only eight miles away from the family's home. So Jen's dad calls the police immediately to report this. And when they come to investigate, they find the car is empty, aside from some spots of blood in her vehicle, which is not a good thing to find when the owner of this vehicle is missing. So this is no longer a missing person's case to police.

They decide they might be looking at a homicide investigation. So it's after this that Remy goes on the local news to make an emotional plea. He says that despite the blood evidence, he believes that his wife is alive. And he asks that anyone with information come forward. And he says, quote, in like speaking to Jen through the TV. I don't think you ever, ever knew how much we care for you and how much you're loved. Meanwhile, he keeps posting on Facebook trying to aid in the investigation until two months later on February 26, 2013. when everyone's hopes are dashed.

So at 11 p.m. that night, Remy gets a knock on the front door, and there's some police officers standing there who say, hey, we found Jen's naked body in an abankment about 20 miles from their house, about three miles away from where her cell phone was found. When her autopsy is performed later, the medical examiners have a hard time determining the cause of death, because of the level of decomposition. They rule out any natural cause of death, though,

and it didn't appear to be an accident of any kind, which left them with homicide, and a theory that she was likely strangled or suffocated. Now, by this point, the police have not ruled out Remy as a possible suspect. After all, he was the one to find her phone after the police went out and didn't find it themselves, and they had also learned in this time that Jen wasn't the only one

who was stepping outside of the marriage because apparently Remy had been having his own affair with Jen's best friend Eileen sells, yes Oh you know The one that came forward about Jen's affair That's usually how it is

It's usually like a best friend or something Turns out Eileen and Remy had been seeing each other For about a year before Jen disappeared. Wow. Well, Remy had actually gotten Eileen into his running club, and they had been spending a lot of time training together.

One thing led to another. Remy said by this point, he and Jen had already grown apart, had even spoken about divorce, but it wasn't that easy. Eileen had a husband and kids of her own, so they kept their relationship under wraps. They began sneaking around, meeting up whenever they had a moment. Remy started buying her things and telling her he was in love.

love with her and then Eileen actually separated from her husband and even moved out for a bit thinking inevitably that she and Remy would end up together. But a few weeks before Jen disappeared, Eileen's guilt consumed her. And she decided to break things off with Remy and then move back in with her husband and reconcile. And then the day before Jen disappeared, Remy and Eileen, unable to stay away, met up again. So they once again rekindled their relationship and then the following day, Jen goes missing. Oh gosh. Okay. So in this situation, it is not enough to just look at Remy. Police also now have to look at Eileen. That would suck. This all being public and on blast. Yeah. So they ask Eileen to come in and take a polygraph, which she does, but the results come back

and conclusive. However, it's Eileen's alibi that actually ultimately ends up clearing her from the suspect list. She says she was at work the morning Jen vanished and her employers confirm it, which means detectives really only have one more name left on the list. Her husband, Remy. And that means looking deeper into Remy's alibi. Because remember, he said that after Jen left for the mall that day. He worked on some projects for work and then went for a run. He even tells detectives what path he took for his run that day, which ended at the local YMCA. But when they check the surveillance cameras along that running route at the time he said he would be there, any convenience stores, banks, different businesses, there is no sign of Remy running. There is some

footage, though, of him showing up outside the YMCA around 1242 p.m. that afternoon and stretching, but it doesn't look like he ran there along the route that he claimed. And there's another red flag besides that, though. Remy told police that Jen left the house by 10.30 a.m. that morning for the mall. However, when they look at Jen's cell phone data from that day, they find that her cell phone was still at the house at 1057. Okay. Again, that just doesn't line up with Remy's version of events.

And then as all of this is unraveling around Remy, some DNA results come back. They're from a blood stain that was found on both the sweatshirt Remy was wearing the Dagen disappeared and a blood stain that was found on the couple's mattress when they searched their house. And both of these are a partial match for both Jen and Remy. Yeah, it's hard because you can explain like hair, fingernails and all that, but explaining. Maybe even a little blood on the mattress. Yeah, this is hard. Explaining blood on like a sweatshirt. Yes, the day that your wife disappeared. Oh yeah, my wife got a bloody nose that day. Like, you know, that's, yeah. Police decide this is enough to get an arrest warrant. And on May 17th, 2013, about three months after Jen's body was

found, Remy is taken into custody and charged with second-degree murder. Now, Remy denies it all, says he was the one who initially helped police with the investigation. He points to the fact that they don't have a murder weapon and says, hey, people cheat all the time. It doesn't mean that they kill their spouse. In his mind, the case against him is weak. And And Eileen actually comes out and says that she believes he's innocent too. From jail, Remy calls Eileen often to say, hey, I still love you. I still want to be with you. And she assumes that this entire thing with Jen going missing and ending up dead is a big misunderstanding.

But as the case inches closer to trial and Eileen gets some distance from Remy, she starts to replay a lot of their relationship, the past events in her mind. And she actually begins to question, Remy, realizing they don't have another viable suspect. This is interesting because they don't, I feel like they don't have much. I mean, they have the body, but like... Yeah, they don't. They really don't have much. A lot of this is going to be convincing the jury, which is part of the justice system. I mean, yeah, did he probably do it?

Yeah, he probably did it. What is there concrete evidence? But is there a concrete evidence? No. He doesn't have a solid alibi. He is having an affair. There was a drop of blood found on his sweatshirt. But other than that.

Yeah, this is. Okay, I'm curious to see how this goes or what the prosecutor says. Prosecution. Finally, in September of 2014, the trial against Remy Rameseran began. Prosecutors alleged that Remy had wanted out of his marriage to be. with Eileen, while also still maintaining full custody of the children. And they said that on the morning of December 11th, when Remy caught her playing video games in their bed that morning, he actually snapped and he killed her right there in the bedroom

and then spent the morning getting rid of her body. Now, shockingly, Eileen actually ends up being one of the star witnesses for the prosecution. Because she realized, wait, I think he did this. Well, when she took the stand, she opened up about the affair. She actually spoke about some of the red flags she now noticed in hindsight. Like the fact that Remy had asked her to pick him up from the YMCA, the afternoon Jen disappeared. But when she dropped him off at home, he didn't invite her inside like he normally would if Jen was out. If Jen was out shopping.

Okay. Instead, he's like, no, no, no. you're busy and she found this very odd considering the two had just gotten back together the night before they had been intimate the night before like why wouldn't he invite her in so the prosecution pointed to this as evidence saying he only turned down i lean that day because he was still trying to figure out how to cover up his wife's murder which again this is all great um these are great arguments but it's circumstantial it's just all circumstantial the prosecution though also did call on a forensic expert who debunked the fact that Remy said he was working on his computer all morning the day Jen vanished.

He said there was no work done on the computer in the hours Remy claimed he was working. Instead, during that time, the prosecution suggested that Remy was placing his wife's body in the trunk of her red van, getting rid of her body, and then abandoning her van in the apartment complex parking lot. And then from there, he ran to the YMCA and then called Eileen and said, come pick me up. They also called Jen's online friend Rob. The one that Eileen said Jen was basically having an emotional affair with. And he takes the stand via Skype. And he tells the jury how. Skype.

That's funny because Skype is, I mean, Skype's gone. Skype's at a business. Which is crazy because you think Skype would have been Zoom. Yeah, well, Skype didn't, they didn't pivot in Zoom did. So he tells the jury how he actually became alarmed that day when during the middle of their game that morning, Jen just disappeared, like she had just walked away from her computer. And he even texted her later and was like, hey, where did you go mid-game? And was met with no response, which bolsters the prosecution's theory that Remy had killed

Jen when she was laying on their bed playing a game. And as for the defense, their approach was placing blame on the police, saying that they had botched the case, they had arrested the wrong guy, they questioned the prosecution's timeline, saying the amount of time between the supposed attack and Remy showing up at the YMCA just wasn't enough for him to kill, drop the body, and the car off somewhere. They also questioned the surveillance videos that didn't show Remy. on his jogging route that morning saying, well, you didn't have time stamps or in most of those videos don't even have a good vantage point. Plus, there were some other interesting details that

came to light from the defense at trial. For example, they mentioned there was a witness who saw a man driving Jen's van around hours later when Remy was known to be at home with the kids at about 5.30 p.m. Oh, that one's so dumb because... So when I wouldn't come forward and say, no, I saw a man driving that exact van at 5.30. Okay. This is also the same time he's calling the police.

They also hired a DNA expert who found that there was male DNA under Jen's fingernails. Apparently, though, it was not enough to conclusively identify whose it was, but they were able to rule out that it was Remy's DNA. What's weird, though, is they didn't call this DNA expert or that eyewitness to the stand. They kind of just say, well, we talk to someone.

Oh, okay. Yeah, whatever. And instead, there was only one person that testified for the defense, and that was Remy himself. And at times, he acted erratic, yelling at the prosecution while trying to make his point. He said that he had the perfect life. There was no reason for him to kill his wife when everything was at that point going great between him and his girlfriend. Then he told the jury he didn't really care what anyone else thought of him. And that was his testimony and the way he acted on stand was honestly enough to seal Remy's fate.

Which is really interesting because they tell you not to testify for a reason. It's that, but also like attorneys, lawyers, when you are doing a high profile case like this, they coach you through how to act, how to answer questions, because, I mean, that'll sway the jury. 100%. You can't get emotional like that. It's why they tell them not to testify because the jury puts so much on that. And, I mean, it's also like the prosecutor, like they're trying to get them to crack because they know if they can crack them and they can get them to be emotional. I mean, the jury's going to, yeah, they're going to believe it.

Yeah. So after three weeks of testimony, the jury returned with a verdict. They found Remy guilty of second-degree murder and he was sentenced to 25 years behind bars. But this isn't the end of Remy's story. So in October of 2022, now 48-year-old Remy was back in court again and this time to try and overturn his murder conviction due to ineffective counsel. Turns out, Remy's lawyer back then, Gilberto Garcia, had never done a murder trial before. In fact, he had no criminal law experience at all. He was recommended by a friend of his dads. Remy's new team of lawyers pointed out that Garcia never called a single witness to the stand outside of Remy to challenge the prosecution, that he had Googled basic forensic issues like DNA before the trial.

So they're going to say he basically wasn't represented fairly. Yes. And he never properly prepared Remy to take the stand in his own defense, which is exactly what Garrett was just saying. The judge overseeing the appeal ultimately said the testimony, quote, revealed his, meaning the Garcia's, the old attorneys, sheer lack of knowledge regarding any of the technical and scientific issues relevant to the criminal proceeding. this is one of those rare cases where the attorney's conduct constituted egregious and prejudicial error, such that the defendant did not receive a fair trial. All right. Trial number two.

So Remy's verdict was tossed out in 2022. He was granted the right to a new trial. And with that, the prosecution began rebuilding their case, including some new evidence they had discovered. Messages from Jen to Rob that showed she had no intention of actually. going shopping at all the day that he said she went shopping. Remy wasn't willing to take his chances a second time, though, so rather than go through another trial, he accepted a plea deal of 22 years with time served on and a reduced charge of manslaughter.

Okay. So, I mean, at that point, you're admitting, I mean, he's admitting that he did it. I mean, he pled guilty. Yeah, he's admitting he did it. He could have pled no contest. Yeah, true. Remy could be free again as soon as 2031, but he still is actually maintaining his innocence. He says the only reason he even pled guilty was because it was the smartest thing to do legally.

Maybe one of the most frustrating parts about this is how cavalier he was about prison in general. He told one reporter, quote, have you ever been to prison? It's hilarious. You get cell phones. You kind of get anything you want in prison. If you are looking for it, it's insane. I'm telling you, prison is a joke. And for Eileen's sales, she says,

says she is haunted by the affair and regrets ever having met Remy. She still blames herself for the role she believed she caused in Jen's death. She said she would never forgive herself. But you have to remember, life doesn't always go the way we imagine it to. People make mistakes, feelings change, loves evolves or disappears. It's all about how we handle that and that we make sure others don't become collateral damage in the fallout. He kind of got away with murder. When we don't, innocent people like Jen can become victims of a senseless crime and really have a murky justice.

And that is the story of Jennifer Remst Ran. No, he honestly kind of got away with murder. Like he's going to be out in 2031. They don't really know. I mean, they know what happened to her, but like there's not a ton of evidence. He'll never say anything about it. I mean, most men that murder their wife get life in prison. Yeah, like he kind of just killed his wife.

He's going to be out in a few years. And that'll be that. That's wild. That's insane. Kind of a crazy case. Yeah, that's pretty insane. Because there really just wasn't much evidence. And then you add in a mistress who now believes that he did it when originally she didn't.

It is all over the place. Yeah, that's a lot. All right, you guys. That was our episode for this. week and we will see you next time with another one. I love it. I hate it. Goodbye.