Murder With My Husband - 8. John List - The Deadly Daddy

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

Payton and Garrett discuss the family annihilator that would have gotten away with it, if it hadn't of been for the popular TV show, Americas Most Wanted. After 18 years of hiding, John List was arrested for the murder of his whole family. LIVE ONLINE SHOW TICKETS HERE! https://www.moment.co/murderwithmyhusband Follow us on our media platforms at: https://linktr.ee/murderwithmyhusband  Case Sources for this episode: American justice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sxdKJaNcxM Forensic Files: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-exizXIB4I https://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/nyregion/25list1.html https://murderpedia.org/male.L/l/list-john-emil.htm https://medium.com/@delanirbartlette/john-list-he-committed-the-almost-perfect-murder-4a30ad9199b9 https://allthatsinteresting.com/john-list Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yes, you energy. Energy for everything. Captain Banner now to learn more. Hello, all our favorite listeners. Welcome to Murder with my husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. I'm the husband. It's Mother's Day today. I want to wish a happy Mother's Day to all the moms that are in Garrett and I's life, as well as all of the moms that are listening, I think raising a human being is the hardest job out there.

So this is for you. Oh, come on. Oh, come on. Okay, so this murder is more well known than the past murders that we've done on this podcast, but I picked this one because I think Garrett is really gonna like it. So that's why I picked this murder, but some of you may know it. Interesting. So, oh, first I just want to give like our sources give credit where

credit is due. There's an American Justice episode on this. There's a forensic files episode on this. I got information from www.New York Times.com, murderpedia.org, medium.com, and all that's interesting.com. I guess before we start, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who's listening again. Oh, yeah. Thank you. It really like we appreciate it so much. I know we say that over and over, but every single episode we put out, we keep getting listeners and a lot of continued listeners and a lot from places that we don't know people. And so it really means a lot to us that there are strangers out there

that are listening to us. It's like a really cool feeling. It is. Especially because we're just starting. So it's nice to get people that actually want to listen to. So this one's for you guys. Oh my gosh.

Okay, so to the murder. On May 21st, 1989, a woman in Richmond, Virginia was watching an episode of America's most wanted. She was surprised when an age progression sculpture of a man that the authorities were looking for looked strikingly similar to her next-door neighbor, Robert Clark. She called in the tip to the police, confused because her neighbor was a church-going man and a successful accountant. Police arrested her neighbor, Robert Clark, who was in fact the man they were looking for, John List. A husband who 18 years earlier

had murdered his mother, his wife, and all three of his children in their New Jersey mansion. This story is the story of the John List murders. Wow. So when you say mansion, do you mean mansion? I mean mansion. Like it was said mansion, okay. But mansion. Okay. So John, email list was born on September 17th, 1925 in Bay City, Michigan. So in some of these stories, they don't include the city, but I'll go through source to source to get the city just in case there's a listener from that city in that state. Just so it's like cool for them if it's or they know the city.

Yeah, why wouldn't they include the city? I don't know, because I mean, like when you're trying to condense a murder it's like oh, he was born a Michigan, you know, like that's enough. Got it. But I go through source to source really hoping I can find the city so that if someone knows about it, it's kind of cool for that. That is kind of cool. So he was the only child to his mother and father and they were very strict parents. They were devout Lutherans. List and his mother had a very close relationship and she was known to be kind of controlling over him. List served in the army during World War II,

and afterwards he went to school at the University of Michigan and earned a bachelor degree in business administration and a master's degree in accounting. I think, what? Wow, I said, wow. Yeah, so I think this goes to show that list was a very hard worker and dedicated to his work. Like, that's a hard degree and it's a master's nonetheless. School, honestly, college, I think any college degree in general

like props, yeah, even if it's not like necessarily a hard degree, right? You're still doing four years of work. Yeah, exactly. So it's said that he struggled though, keeping a job after getting his degree due to his lack of social skills. He would bump heads with coworkers and bosses and others called him off-putting in the workforce. So he had a hard time keeping a job even though he was a hard worker.

Because he was like a Mr. No at all? Or... Just his social skills were bad people said that, yeah, he kind of was enclosed and like didn't agree with people a lot of the time, but I don't know if he necessarily fought with them. He was just like not fun to have it work. Okay.

So he met his wife Helen, who was already a widow at the time after graduating college. Helen told List pretty soon after they began dating that she was pregnant. This was a big no-no because he was a devout Lutheran and so he took that very seriously and so List agreed to marry Helen out of wedlock. Wow. They get married and soon after Helen reveals to him that she had an actually big pregnant and that she

lied to him. What? Have you ever watched Glee? Yes. The TV show. You know when she does that and she like fakes it for so long that she looks at fake belly and like it's crazy. I like can't even get like imagine that.

And I mean, obviously, I didn't take it as far as putting a fake belly, but still. So I know this is about John, but I mean, that's pretty messed up of I think it's messed up her to do so She tells him that right and he is like oh my gosh But he doesn't want to look stupid because of his religious beliefs and he doesn't want to break his marriage vows So he stays married to her okay, so they actually become for real pregnant this time very soon after their marriage and within four years of being married They had three children. Wow. They were little bunnies.

Yeah, they were really robust in the mouth. But that's actually, that's tough. I know. I mean, I'm not a woman, and I've never given birth. Again, shout out to moms. Can you imagine giving birth to three kids in four years? I know. So the children at the time of the incident

were Patricia, who was 16, John, who was 15, and Fredrick, who was 13. So they were all teenagers at the time of the incident. But flashback to when they had them, the pressure of having a family and being the provider became heavy on list mental health, you could not hold down a job for the life of him. Like I said earlier, it wasn't his work ethic. Like he was, he was productive, he was a hard worker, he was meticulous, but it's his personality that kept getting him fired job after job.

So eventually, John List, though, lands a really good job as the vice president of a bank in Westfield, New Jersey in 1965. Because of this, List purchased his wife Helen, her dream home. She had been wanting it forever, and it was an expensive 19 room mansion that was literally the biggest house

and then in the nicest part of town. Wow. The mansion was called Breeze Noll. And I eventually in my lifetime want to live in a house that has a freaking name. Like how cool is that? Like their house was so well known.

And big enough that it was like had a name. Like it was the Breeze Noll mansion. Breeze Noll Manor, you know? I just think that's so cool. So he didn't actually have the money for this though. And he had to ask his mother, Alma, for a loan to buy the house. And she gave it to him under the condition

that she could live in the mother-in-law apartment that was on the third floor of the mansion. So not even a year after he gets the vice president job at the bank, list his fire due to personality reasons again. Oh man, why didn't the mom just go by her own house? I know. So I think because she wanted to get taken care of, she was old, like in her 80s.

Okay, okay. So the pressure of keeping up the image for his church and his family was his top priority. And so he didn't tell anyone that he had been fired from his vice president job. Instead, he continued to get up every day, put on his work clothes, and head off to work. In reality, he was just getting on a train and riding back and forth all day until it was time to come home. He continued to look for work in between this due to the financial burdens that this new mansion and that their lifestyle was costing him, but he just would get a job, lose it a week later, get a job, lose it a week later, or not even get

the job. So his life needless to say was falling apart. And it makes me feel like something else is going on that he's getting fired this much. It just seems a little fishy to me. Yeah, there was not too much detail about why besides that they were saying it was all of his social skills in person. Yeah, I just feel like that's kind of a weird.

Social skills, social skills, I don't know. But then how do you get the job in the first place? Yeah, exactly. You're in the interview, what You would have noticed those social skills. So anyways, Lists began to still money from his mother's bank accounts so that he could pay the mortgage on their house. So he's like at his wits end, like trying anything you can do to keep this lifestyle that they have going.

By the year 1971, Lists was completely bankrupt. The problem with this was that Lists believed that poverty was a sin. It would be a disgrace to admit the state their life was in, and he refused to go on welfare or ask for help. Keep in mind, it's the 70s, and he had begun to worry about his teenage kids and the worldly ways that they had come to act in. Patricia, his oldest, had said that she was wanting to become an actress and she was taking acting classes, which in his eyes was like a corrupt employment. Like, he was like,

she cannot do that, like actors and actresses are completely corrupt and she'll go to hell. And she becomes that. And then there were also rumors going around town that she was interested in him begun to do witchcraft and a little bit of marijuana, but I was like, ooh, witchy sister, I'm about it. So on top of all this, Lys wife Helen had also been keeping a secret of her own. She had contracted syphilis from her first husband and hadn't told Lys.

So for those who don't know what syphilis is, I'm pretty sure it's an STI. Me too. It could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's an STI. Yeah, and it was deteriorating her health bad. Okay. And due to the embarrassment of this, Helen had actually stopped going to church with John. So she was like, just this was getting her down and stuff. So she stopped going to

church with John. And so John was like, oh my gosh, like my family is going to hell. Like he was like, we are living in sin, we're broke and that's a sin. Like I'm not taking care of my family and that's a sin and my daughter's a witch and that's a sin. Like other kids wants to do acting. Yeah, and so he was just, my wife's not even going to church anymore.

And so this was the straw that broke the camel's back and list was convinced that this life, that he was living was not good anymore and it was completely overtaken by sin. And he considered suicide, but that was also an unforgivable sin. And so I don't know how murder isn't, but he justified it in his head that, okay, well, I'll take care of them. And then I'll no longer be living in a life of sin.

So have a question real quick. Is there any information about the kids and kind of their lives or were they kind of just left out of everything? They were kind of just left out of everything? They were kind of just left out of it like the only they they were popular. Uh-huh. And they had friends and stuff but that was kind of all that was. Because they weren't super young. No, they were teenagers at this point.

Exactly. That was kind of all that was included in all of the stuff I found. I'm sure if there was like a first person source they would know more. Okay. John List being a hard worker and a meticulous man, made a plan that took him months to come up with. He was going to end this humiliation and send his family to heaven so they could stop living an incin.

So I think he was like, if I kill them, they'll go to heaven. If they keep living this life, they're living, they're all going to go to hell. And there's been parents who have killed for this exact same reason before. That feels so hypocritical, like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, because, I mean, they're poor, because he's lying about not having a job and not keeping a job. It's a suicide. He goes, but I'm gonna kill my family. I don't know. Yeah. So he went and practiced his shooting skills at a shooting range and even slightly snuck into conversation

one night around the dinner table. What everyone would want done with their bodies if they were to die. Like, would you want cremated? Would you want buried? What kind of funeral would you want? How would he go to the shooting range? I'm sorry, just a little confused.

I need to- Maybe thought he didn't know how to use a gun. But he was in the war. Was he planning on being like 300 yards away with the sign? We're trying to kill his family. He's meticulous. So he was like, I'm not gonna miss.

I'm gonna... Oh, it's so sad. I know. So on the morning of November 9th, 1971, after the kids went to school, lists loaded his handguns and went into the kitchen where his wife Helen was drinking her morning cup of coffee. He talked to her for a little bit,

and then when her back was turned, he walked up behind her and shot her in the side of her head, killing her instantly. Oh, man. He put Helen's body on a sleeping bag and dragged her into their glorious ballroom. So like there in a mansion, an old man, remember, they have this huge ballroom, and he drags her in there and like sets her in there. Next he walks upstairs to the third floor of the mansion where his mom is making her

breakfast. He kisses her on the head and then shoots her in the head. He tries to drag her body down to the ballroom to be with Helen, but it's too heavy and he doesn't get that far. So he just sets her down in the hallway and puts a towel over her face and moves on. He goes back downstairs and cleans up the blood that had amounted so when the kids got home they weren't like stunned that there was this blood all over the floor. He then drafts letters to send to the kids' school about the family vacation they would be leaving for immediately. He went to the post office to mel the letters and stopped the mail delivery to their house.

He also stopped their milk delivery. And also, I just want to know why and when we stopped deciding to have our milk delivered. Because how cute. Someone walks up and delivers your milk for the week. Isn't that cute? Probably a lot of work. I guess, but why was that such a common thing? And now we don't even hear of it.

It was also on glass bottles. Oh yeah. Yeah, but couldn't you just deliver in? was at such a common thing and now like we don't even hear of it. It was also on like glass bottles and stuff. Oh yeah. Yeah, but couldn't you just deliver in? I'm sorry for all those that are out there listening that a little older than us. You can tell we're kind of lenient. Well, I want someone to deliver my milk. That's all I want in my life.

You can postmates it? Yeah, I guess. There you go. It's the same thing. So after he leaves the post office, he goes to the bank to cash in his mother's savings bond that was like $2,000. He drove back to Breeze Noel Manor and made himself a sandwich while waiting for the kids to get home from school. Keep in mind his wife is in the ballroom on a sleeping bag dead and his mother is upstairs

dead in the hallway. This is just once again, how do they move on? How is he even hungry? Like, how are you even hungry enough to just happen? This seems to happen in all our stories where they make us say how much are they? Yeah, make they just go on with the body parts, whatever it is. There's always, yeah, there's always something weird going on like this. So Patricia the 16 year old, which actually called home saying she was feeling pretty ill. So he goes to the school and picks her up from school early. When they get home, he shoots her in the jaw and drags her body into the ballroom next to her mother's. When Fred his son came home from school, he shot him as well and laid the body out in the ballroom too.

John actually had a soccer game after school that day, and so Lists went to the soccer game and cheered his son on and then gave him a ride back home, took him in and shot him in the back of the head in the kitchen. This is where it just goes back to. He's crazy. Yeah. He can do all this stuff, then kill every single person in his family and just be like, yeah, it's, yeah, is what it is. John Jr. though actually struggled like he didn't die instantly like the rest of them. Oh, and so he shoots him nine more times before he drags him into the ballroom.

Nine times? Mm. I think he was like making noise, you know? So I think to like end the suffering, he just like panicked. Oh. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Have you ever found yourself at a crossroads

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husband at checkout to get 20% off your first order. That's nativedeo.com slash husband or use promo code husband at checkout. Nativedo.com slash husband and use promo code husband. So after his family was laying out in front of him in the ballroom He stands over them and says a prayer over their bodies He then wrote a note to his pastor Confessing to the crimes according to all things interesting.com He feared his family confronted with a world full of evil and poverty would turn from God

He said that this was the only way to ensure their safe arrival to heaven. John cleaned up the blood that was spilled all over the house and then ate dinner. He washes his dishes and set them to dry and then goes up to his bedroom and goes to sleep with all of his family members dead in his house. All right, John did not. I don't know where his logic was, but that was not the right decision at all. He later admits that he got the best night sleep that night than he had had in years. And I honestly think it's because the burden of like living this fake life was like off his shoulders. Like I think he genuinely was finally like, oh, like my family's safe and And I don't have to keep up this lie. Quote on quote.

Yes. Yes. So he woke up next morning and turned the air conditioning down so the bodies would decompose slower. And then he switched every light on in the house and then turned the radio on over the inner comp system to his favorite classical musical station. He did this so people would still think the family was home when he leaves. So that the lights were on and there was like music and noise coming from the house. He then took a pair of scissors and cut himself out of every family picture that was in the house. And then hung the family picture back up. So at first I thought that this was like because of remorse.

Because like a couple of the sources just said that he did this. Like he didn't want to see himself. And that picture. Yeah. So I was like, oh, he feels like he doesn't, you know, deserve his family or that his family's moving on without him. And so like cut his picture, his picture out. But then it's, it was in one of the sources that John later told people he did this because he didn't want the cops to have any picture to use for his wanted science.

So it wasn't because he was like, I put too much faith in the sky. Because I go, he has having remarks, but it was actually because he just didn't want to get caught. And I was thinking about it like nowadays, you just get on Facebook or Instagram, download a picture of it back then. That was the only pictures.

Yeah. Wow. So then he just grabbed his bags, and he walked out the front door, locked it behind him and left forever. Okay, so nearly a month goes by, it breathes no without any word or anything. No one calls the cops, no one suspects anything. It's just the lights are on and everything's normal. So what about her family?

I don't know. I don't know. Didn't say anything about that. Okay. No one like called the check-in on that or anything. Okay. Neighbors thinking that the lists were keeping it themselves because the lights were small so they thought they were home and they could hear the music at times. And there was no mail or milk piling up like the normal things of like if someone wasn't home.

And he'd already sent letters to the school for the kids. Yeah, so he took care of everything to make it. So no one would be like- Respect anything. So the lights one by be like to expect anything. Mm-hmm. So the lights one by one begin to burn out because they are being left on all the time. And so it leaves only the music playing and the family corpses rotting away in the house. Oh my gosh.

It was Patricia's drama teacher who ended up being worried enough to go check in on the family. Patricia had apparently told her teacher that she was worried her dad would kill the whole family because he didn't like his life. Whoa, weird. Yeah. So then the teacher got worried enough after a month had gone by and the kids still hadn't come home from vacation, that he was like, I'm going to go to the house. He must have done something to make the family or the kids feel weird because that's I think he was like slowly unraveling. Uh-huh. I mean, you can't keep up a lie. You can't

keep doing that. Like, and the pressure of he legit thought his whole family was going to hell. Yeah. I mean, and he was a devout Lutheran. I'm I'm religion was everything to him. I'm sure he was like screaming and yelling at them. Mm-hmm. Okay. So, he goes to the house that teacher does. And neighbors call the police when they see the teacher wandering around and looking in the windows, which I'm like, okay, so you don't see anyone at the house for a month. You hear the same music on, like all the time. But as soon as one person comes in your neighborhood and starts peeking in windows, you're like,

oh, we gotta call the cops. Oh, so I'm trying to break in. So the police show up and they knock on the windows, you're like, oh, we got to call the cops. So I'm trying to break in. So the police show up and they knock on the door, they look through the windows and then they're like, nothing's wrong. They're like, going to go back and the neighbors are like, well, we haven't seen them. So can you please like go in the house? We haven't seen them. So the cops find an unlocked window and they climb through the window and go inside the

house. Here we go. The police are immediately sus. The house was freezing cold, there was only one light on, and there was eerie funeral music playing over the intercom system. Like, can you imagine going in this house,

it's freezing cold, you can like, kind of slightly smell decomp, and the lights are all off, like burned out when they're trying to turn on, and there's funeral music playing throughout the intercom system in the house. So freaky. It's been a month, right? Yeah. A month.

So when the cops finally get near the ballroom, the smell of decomp is so strong that they're first sure there's dead bodies in the house. And they walk in and they find the family laid out on all the sleeping bags dead, decomposing. So after searching the rest of the house, they also find John's confession letter that he left the pastor and they find Alma's body upstairs on the third floor. So the cops put out an APB for a list in his car and they end up finding his car at the John F. Kennedy airport, but there was no record of him taking a flight. So there's no leads, there's no clues. John List was just gone and had a month to get anywhere under no suspicion.

Hey, could you go to Mexico, could you go to Europe, who knows? The chances of them finding him now were slimmed in on. Yep. A month had started. So the August after the massacre though, the list home actually caught fire, the mansion. And police think it was arson, but through the wreckage,

they actually discovered that the glass ceiling in the ballroom was a Tiffany original, making it worth over $100,000 at the time. Whoa. This would have easily paid off all of the bills and at least solved the money issues that list was having. And people don't even think he knew that that glass ceiling was that much money.

I'm sure not. So he would have just had to sell that piece of glass and he would have crawled out of the hole that he was in. Yeah. That's gonna hard though. How are you supposed to know that? I know. Right. So the police tried through the years to get more coverage and spread the word like we're looking for this guy. He obviously did it. They followed all the leads that came up about where he might be, but there weren't that many and they never went anywhere. In 1989, a man named John Walsh, who anyone listening to this podcast that's true crime person

is going to know that name, but you don't know that name. His six-year-old son, Adam, was murdered, which in turn led John to become a victim's right advocate and the host of America's most wanted. Oh. It's a really big case, like a really famous case and he like fought and now he's like the host of America's most wanted because his son was murdered. Okay. And he heard about the case, John Walsh heard about the case and he was determined to find this scumbag dad that murdered his family and bring him to justice.

But he told them like he told the cops in order to put this on America's most wanted we're gonna have to have an updated image of him because the case was a long time ago and really cold like there's been no evidence since. And so Walsh got a hold of Frank Bender who is a forensic sculptor and asked him to contract an age progressedprogressed sculpture of John List. Bender used all the information he had as a forensic anthropologist, but he also reached out to a forensic psychologist to get a profile on John List, which I just think is brilliant.

So instead of just looking at the photo and being like age-progressing him to what he thinks he would be like 18 years later. He reaches out to a psychologist and is like, hey, will he have a beard or will he not have a beard based on his behavior beforehand? Will he have gained weight? Will he have lost weight? Will he have done this? Will he have done that to try to get like the most accurate description of this guy? Some of these guests and abilities people have below my mind. Blown my mind. So they use his parents' old pictures to kind of see what his parents turned out like, and they end up creating a sculpture of who they thought a 60-year-old John List would look like in 1989, 18 years after he murdered his family.

They decided together that John List would be wearing glasses that were very similar to the ones he wore around the time of the murder because that would have been his prime. I still feel like this is as the police and the tech is looking for this guy. It just feels like such a long shot though. I know. If he's if he's if he's smart enough, you leave the country. Oh yeah. You don't stay in the US. Any at a month had start. Yeah. I had some money. Now even longer than a month now. We're just It's too grand which like back in that day is like you get a flight somewhere Yeah, a lot of money to go restart

Yeah, that's interesting. So they're like this is all they have I mean America's most wanted on the TV Yeah, this is a way to spread it to the nation in hopes and also they're just guessing what this guy might be looking like. It's 18 years later. It's not like it's been five years. You know? So anyways, they decide that he would be wearing the glasses. The same exact glasses almost that he wore around the time of the murder because he would want to live like in his prime.

And so he wouldn't have moved on. He wouldn't psych, like psychologically he wouldn't have got in new glasses. Got it. And so they scour thrift stores around trying to find these frames that they're looking for and they finally find the perfect ones and they put it on the sculpture and then they release the sculpture on America's most wanted. And I'm going to show you the sculpture versus him when they found him. Okay. This is a picture that they took of him and the sculpture. No way. Yeah. That looks like the exact same person. Uh huh. You like can't even tell. Wow. That's so impressive.

Mm hmm. Yeah. So the America's most wanted case aired and then 11 days later FBI arrest Robert Clark in Richmond, Virginia. He had a new wife and denied that he was John List even after they compared his fingerprints improved that it was him. He was charged with five counts of first degree murder and he was diagnosed with OCD. Okay. Nine hours after deliberation, his jury found him guilty. He was given maximum sentence, which was five consecutive life terms. List died in prison on March 21st, 2008 at 82 years old,

and that's the story of the John List murders. Wow. First of all, you guys should go look up that picture because that's all posted on our social media. Oh yeah, we're going to post it on our Instagram. So go all the way. I'll post the manner. I'll post the social.

I'll post the picture. Yeah, I'll post all that stuff. So go follow us on our social media, murder with my husband, Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. So here's some things that he said in interviews after he was caught. He said, I feel when we get to heaven, we won't worry about these earthly things. They'll either have forgiven me or they won't realize, you know, what happened. Talking about his family. He said, I'm sure that if we recognize each other, that we'll just like each other's

company, just as we did here, when times were better. Did he kill your family? Yeah, but he thinks he saved him. Yeah, true. Um, Dr. Steven Smearing, Dr. Steven Smearing, a psychiatrist who examined list after his arrest years later, said his sense of neatness was the result of a compulsive personality. Smearing said lists showed no evidence of anything

that approached genuine remorse adding he's a cold, cold man. Yeah, I don't understand how, I guess him having OCD is the reason that, not the reason, but. So that's why I'm wondering if maybe it was a little bit more. If there's more to it that we just don't know. We don't understand.

Or like I was kind of thinking he just, he, I mean, obviously something was obviously wrong. Most of the time with the killer, there is something wrong. But maybe just the pressure of like lying and stuff was so much that he killed them and then to use a cop out, he blamed his religion. Okay, I could see that.

Like maybe it was, cause why not kill yourself? I mean, it could have been a form of, it's hard. I try not to, I think we that like maybe it was because why not kill yourself? I mean it could have been a form of it's hard I try not to I think we will try to talk about this stuff too much Yeah, we'd not doctors yes or mental specialists But I mean it could have been a form of maybe depression. Yeah, I mean depression is obviously you know 100% real so So yeah, I think that Maybe it would it could have been more selfish than he led on years later after being caught

and led on to his pastor, you know, like using God as an excuse to get rid of your family. Maybe he believed it, but maybe it was just something he justified for his own selfish reasons of, I'm living a life I don't wanna be living. Either way, he could have this family and I'm glad he got caught, so.

18 years later because of a mayor's class most wanted. What were the chances? Also, why didn't he leave the country? I know, that's what I said earlier. I knew, I mean, I always knew this was coming. Yeah. Because I could tell he didn't leave the country. Yeah.

But, I mean, and he got a new wife. But, I'm kind of glad he didn't leave the country. He killed his family and deserved to be caught. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don't. I mean, he never, he pled not guilty. Yeah, so he's obviously deserves to be in. Yeah. I mean, he's not alive anymore, but he deserved to be in jail. Yeah, I don't know. There was like no information on his new wife. I guess when they like went to arrest him, they went to her house first. And she was like, oh, he's at work. And so then they went to work, his work at place. So they did get to meet her and stuff. And I don't know, there's no information. But I

think that would be kind of wild to marry someone and then realize, oh my gosh, 18 years older, 18 years earlier, this guy killed his, he's a family annihilator. Yeah. Like, Uh-huh. And no, seriously, it's crazy. That's kind of a short one, but it was just another one of those cut and dry.

Yeah. I mean, well, he did it. It was more just interesting because of the fact that it was found on America's most wanted. Yeah. Like, what, how, I would actually be interested to know, I should have looked up how many people have been caught because of America's most wanted. Like what? How I would actually be interested to know, I should have looked up how many people have been caught because of America's most wanted.

Yeah, that would be interesting to know. Because I don't know. It's kind of crazy that we can just watch a TV show and be like, oh look, that's the guy that murdered his family 18 years ago because of age-progressed sculpture too. Like, that's so cool. John Walsh says that the only reason that they caught him was because those guys did such a good job because they wouldn't have had an updated picture and he looked absolutely nothing like he

did. Wow, that's crazy. Okay, yeah, well, that's the murder. The John List murders crazy family annihilator. That's pretty crazy. We are gonna try to post every Sunday, or we're going to, we're committing. We're gonna post every Sunday and Wednesday. Yeah. Is there a plan? Or Sunday and Thursday, was there Sunday and Thursday or Sunday and Wednesday?

I think it was Wednesday. Sunday and Wednesday. Mm-hmm. So that's gonna be our schedule for those that are listening to us. As we're coming out of quarantine a little bit, we're going to start trying to crack down because we won't have all day every day to just record these. Yeah.

So every Sunday and Wednesday, we're actually out of town right now. Well, we've been with family for the past couple of weeks. So we're headed back to our home. So yeah, that's just an update on our life just in case You go ahead and leave us comment give us an update on your life. Yeah, we want to know what's going on We're just trying to get fans, okay? We really want to dog. Um, what else do we want? We've been working out We just started working out and we're trying to get it. It's been horrible. We're trying to get in shape and eat better For those that are thinking of doing it, don't, it's a scam.

Yeah, it sucks. It sucks. No, but no, it's good. And it's been good. Yeah. And that's all you really need to know about us, but there's a lot that we need to know about you. So go follow us and talk to us and let us know.

We've had like a couple comments back and I respond to all the comments. So if you leave a comment about a murder or you have a question or anything, leave a comment on there. I respond, other people respond and we can get talking. Or if you have a dog, go ahead and just DM me a picture of them so that I can look at them. She loves dogs. And we saved this kind of banter for the end just in case you guys are annoyed of us.

Our skippers. You can just turn it off and then you've listened to the murder already. Okay, well, that was John List Murders. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye. Thank you.