Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Andrea Valdez on How to Find a Coach Worth Hiring

Episode Date: October 27, 2016

Andrea is a figure competitor, powerlifter, and natural bodybuilding coach working with the 3D Muscle Journey team, who I’ve been interviewing one after another because, well, they’re great. When I reached out to Andrea, she proposed that we talk about something I myself have been wanting to comment on: the state of the online coaching space. With Instagram, Snapchat, and fitness getting more and more popular, everyone and their brother is a coach these days, and unfortunately, many of these people have no idea what they’re doing, and many others are outright frauds. Just because someone looks good themselves doesn’t mean they can help others get there, and just because they post impressive before and after shots of “clients” doesn’t mean those shots weren’t just swiped from the Internet. And I say all this based on firsthand experience, because I hear every week from people working with one coach or another that hate their diets and workout programs and are frustrated with their lack of results. Well, in this interview, Andrea and I talk about the state of online coaching and what some of the big problems are, as well as what people should look for when considering hiring a coach, some tips for new and aspiring coaches to get a jump start and then establish a reputation as being credible and competent, and more. So if you’re looking for a coach or are considering hiring one, or if you are a coach or want to become one, then I think you’re going to really find this helpful. And if none of that applies to you, well, you still might find it interesting. Here it is... 6:21 - Is the rise of online coaching a good thing? 10:17 - What are the problems with online coaching? 16:52 - How do you help people get through problems outside of fitness that interfere with their progress? 19:01 - What are the red flags when looking at online coaches? 27:19 - How do you become a coach and do it right? 28:25 - How do you get educated? 31:26 - Do you have to look the part? 36:21 - Do you need credentials? 40:08 - How do you stay credible as the space grows? 46:38 - Where can people find more about you and what you're doing? Want to get my best advice on how to gain muscle and strength and lose fat faster? Sign up for my free newsletter! Click here: https://www.muscleforlife.com/signup/

Hey, it's Mike, and this podcast is brought to you by Legion, my line of naturally sweetened and flavored workout supplements. Now, as you probably know, I'm really not a fan of the supplement industry. I've wasted thousands and thousands of dollars over the years on worthless supplements that basically do nothing, and I've always had trouble finding products actually worth buying, and especially as I've gotten more and more educated as to what actually works and what doesn't. And eventually after complaining a lot, I decided to do something about it and start making my own supplements. The exact supplements I myself have always wanted. A few of the things that make my products unique are one,

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that fun stuff. Now, I have several books, but the place to start is Bigger Leaner Stronger if you're a guy and Thinner Leaner Stronger if you're a girl. Now, these books, they're basically going to teach you everything you need to know about dieting, training, and supplementation to build muscle, lose fat, and look and feel great without having to give up all the foods you love or live in the gym grinding away at workouts you hate. And you can find my books everywhere. You can buy books online like Amazon, Audible, iBooks, Google Play, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, and so forth. And if you're into audiobooks like me, you can actually get one of my audiobooks for free with a 30-day free trial of Audible.

To do that, go to www.muscleforlife.com forward slash audiobooks. That's muscleforlife.com forward slash audiobooks, and you'll see how to do this. So thanks again for taking the time to listen to my podcast. I hope you enjoy it, and let's get to the show. Hey, hey, this is Mike, and welcome to another episode of my podcast. In this episode, I interview Andrea Valdez, who is a figure competitor, powerlifter, and natural bodybuilding coach working with the 3D Muscle Journey team. And I've been kind of interviewing them one after another because, well, I mean, they're great. They just, they really know their stuff. They have a lot of experience. They're fun to talk to. So it has been a pleasure. And when I

reached out to Andrea, she proposed that we talk about something that I myself have been wanting to comment on, which is the state of the online coaching space. Because with Instagram, Snapchat, and just fitness in general getting more and more popular, it's like everyone and their brother is a coach these days. And unfortunately, many of these people just have no idea what they're doing. And many others are just outright frauds. You know, just because someone looks good themselves doesn't mean that they can help others get there. And just because they post impressive before and after shots of quote unquote clients doesn't mean that those pictures weren't just swiped from the internet. And you know, I'm speaking from firsthand experience here because I hear every week from many people that are working with one coach or another that hate their diets and hate their workout programs and are frustrated

with their lack of results. Well, in this interview, Andrew and I talk about all this. We talk about the state of online coaching as a whole and what some of the big problems are, as well as what you should look for when you are considering hiring a coach, some tips for new and aspiring coaches to get a jumpstart and then establish themselves as being credible and competent and more. So if you're looking for a coach right now or you are considering hiring someone, or if you are a coach or want to become one, then I think you're going to find this very helpful. And if none of that applies to you, you might still just find it interesting. So here it is. Andrea, thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Yeah, sure. So you're number two from the 3DMJ team. I had Eric on first,

and it was great. People really liked it. And I've found it kind of hard to find guests that I myself want to talk to, especially when we're talking specifically for talking about exercise. And I mean, there's not that much diet wise that really you kind of like once you kind of go over all the basics, I mean, it's kind of hard to talk endlessly about that. There's more that can be said about training, but it's also can be hard to find people worth speaking to about training. So Eric is definitely one of the best people though. And I have some mighty, mighty shoes to fill. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he was, it was, it was real nice for him to do that and people really

liked it. So in what you and I are going to talk about, that was a little bit different, which is a great subject, something that I have written a little bit about and spoken a little bit about, but I haven't really dived into it. It's just been kind of tangential. And that is online coaching. And because we now we I mean, with the rise of Instagram, everyone's a coach now and everyone has before and afters that look fantastic. And I think there are I don't know. I would say, I don't know if it's a, and this is kind of be, I'm going to turn over the mic to you. I don't know if it's a, if it's a net negative on the whole, but there's a lot of negatives to it. You know what I mean? I feel

like CrossFit where like CrossFit is cool and that it's, it's recommend, it's getting a lot of people into barbell training, which is cool, But then there's a lot that's not cool about it for especially people that are new and improperly coached and so forth. So like on the whole, I think CrossFit is probably a net positive, but. I know I struggle with the net a lot. Cause you know, Eric's real big on that too. He'll be like, if we, anytime we, as like a coaching team with 3DMJ, right. We'll, we'll say like, we'll be like seeing some coach who we don't think is one of the most positive people, right? And we'll be like, but he's like, but it's a net positive because they put out information that gets people thinking.

And I'm like, yeah, but still, you know, so I totally understand. Or your motivation. Like if you have these dudes so blatantly on drugs that are going to, all they talk about is being natural and say, you can do my little ab plan and look like this or whatever. Like, yeah, it's lame. And I'd say on the whole, it would be better if they could be replaced with someone better. But the fact that they're there, is it really a net negative though? You know what I mean? Like just because they're misleading. If they get people into, okay, someone wastes $50 on their shitty PDF and goes and does their ab program and doesn't get abs, but then that person is now, they've started. And so maybe they go from that to finding someone like you guys or me or someone else that is maybe a bit more just grounded and is going to give them better advice. Yeah, it's true.

I struggle with it too, is all with, with both the CrossFit and the coaching, but I don't know whether it's net, I guess net positive, right? Cause more people in general, but what it is scary though, like you mentioned social media, everyone's an expert now, everyone has their platform and they should, you know, but I do agree that it gets abused quite often. And what was good too, is like, say, you know, I started coaching anything when I was like 16, I was coaching gymnastics. I was a gymnast growing

up. Um, and that was my first job was coaching little kids. And I ended up, I ended up doing that for like a decade coaching competitors actually for a while. But, you know, obviously I look at myself when I'm 16, 17, and I was in charge of these little groups. And there's a lot of things that I would do different now, But the cost is so low, right? These little kids just need to continue with their body awareness. And, you know, say 19, 20, I start personal training. All the things that I was doing with my clients, maybe not all of them, which, again, it's good for them and I helped them.

But if I was saying all the things that I said then online, I probably would kick myself in the head for doing that, you know? And it's, so the, and now obviously I'm proud of what I do now, but you know, we go back in time and we're constantly evolving. So all these people that could have been in me, you or I same boat with personal training back in the day, it's still, it's back in the day. It's not on the internet. It's not recorded. We don't have people from all over the world looking for us. It's just us and a few people in our hometown or our 10, 20 clients in person. But again, now it's like the cost is if you have for good looking, you got 30 to 50,000 followers,

but you might be mentally in that boat where you or I were when we were 19 with our 10 clients. It's like, that's where it gets scary is they really, just like I did, you really think that you have a lot to offer. And you probably do have a lot, but are you in a place where you really are or should be in charge of this amount of people that want this type of result? So that's where it gets kind of tricky. Yeah, I agree. And what are the big problems you think that just in your,

because you and your team have, well, I mean, you definitely have a lot more experience coaching athletes for sure. I mean, that's not really something like I've worked with many people and I actually don't personally coach. I just email with a lot of people and stay in touch with a lot of people because a coaching service, the amount of time, like I do have a coaching service, but I have coaches that I work with that run it just because I personally don't feel like I'd be able to give people enough time. So, so I feel like, okay, so it'd be better than if I just, if people can always email me and get help, it just might take me a week or so to get back to

them, but they don't have to pay for it. I'd rather do that than have people pay for something I feel is a great of a service than if they're going to pay a good service. So in your experience, really probably deeper in the coaching space, personally, what are the, what are the big problems that you see that are the things that kind of grind your gears or whatever? What grinds my gears? And I love that you said it was, you were like, I don't personally coach him because I know I can't give them that attention that someone who hires a one-on-one coach should have. And I think that's one of the scariest things to me, right, is because of the internet, again, which is great for someone like you or I or 3D, like we, we see this as a tool to better

put us in touch with the people that we're working with. Whereas I know, unfortunately, a lot of these newer coaches or inexperienced coaches are people who think, well, I have this, this skill, I have a little bit of knowledge. And so now I can work with so many people so much faster. It's kind of, I can make these dollars on the side while I do my own thing. And when it's not in person, even though we had those 10 clients back in the day, we were there face-to-face for an hour when I was a personal trainer back in the day. And it's like, now it can be a 10-minute email, a five-minute email, a two-liner email. And that's when it's like, do you even know the person you're coaching? Exactly. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, with my service, so like it's very high touch hands on there's, uh, we talk a lot with them right in the beginning to really make sure everything

is customized for them. And there are weekly calls, everything is tracked in Google spreadsheets. So then the coaches can review their progress, make sure everything's looking good, talk to them every single week, always be available via email. And so that's like the type of service I wanted to give. But I know that I myself with how many balls I'm juggling, I just, I wouldn't be able to give people that service. So, you know, despite having offers of being paid a lot of money to do it, I'm just like, trust me, you don't want me. I'm not going to be what you want. You want to work with this person who has the time and, you know, is going to really give you the attention that you need. Absolutely. And that's it, right? We respect the intimacy of it because that is

important. And, you know, I think, again, one of the problems is because of the internet, there can be a lot of shortcuts. But, you know, another one I think is that when it's not such a gen pop problem, but like with all the bodybuilding coaches or macro coaches, they say, or whatever, you know, when you're really trying to get someone that lean, it is so important for us to see their faces, see their demeanor, see, you know, they could, you can easily type a sentence on an email saying, I'm feeling great coach. But if I see you slumping in your chair with a sunken in face, bags under your eyes, it's like, okay, I know you're trying to be tough, but this, you know,

maybe a refeed could help speed things up a little bit, you know? Yeah. Or a little diet break or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think I love that you said they do weekly calls like us with 3DMJ, we do weekly videos. So every time, yeah, every time i have an athlete check in with me it's a spreadsheet they filled out all the training they did we have all the columns of like okay what were your macros what was your body weight spits out seven day averages um how are you feeling side notes what cardio did you do am or pm like all that stuff but more importantly uh pictures if they're in prep every week and then a video. And I don't care.

I always tell my athletes, I don't care if it's a one-minute video telling me you're fine. I just want to see your face, you know? Yeah. Oh, I like that. We don't work with bodybuilders. We work with just, you know, everyday people that are looking to get in shape. So I didn't think of that, but that totally makes sense.

Yeah. And I think, too, another reason why it's dangerous, it's people's bodies. Like, it's one thing if I hire, well, I guess someone's business is very important too, but if I hire a business coach, if I hire, I don't know, a dog groomer or whatever, like it's, it's different when it's the psychology that goes into your like social identity with your body is why it becomes very dangerous. Like if, if I want someone to help me so bad, I'm so down the dumps, I want this solution fixed. I hire someone and I don't get the results, but I think something's wrong with me a lot of the time, you know?

And I think one of the things that scares me a lot, especially with online coaches, is they'll only work with certain people or they'll take on people. And if they don't get the results, the coach is immediately like, well, they weren't ready for it. They weren't. Yeah, they didn't try hard enough. They didn't try hard enough. I only work with the best. And it's like,

maybe you could have done something a little different. So it's hard to do it online unless you're really invested in the scary thing with people that come onto it being like, oh, I can do this on the side while I'm doing whatever. It's like that mentality of this is my side thing as opposed to this is my thing.

Yeah. Having that care factor, which I'll add that like people listening, cause I get asked fairly often from people wanting to break into the health and fitness space. Usually people wanting to do more what I do, which is primarily writing, but I'll hear from a lot of different people that I think it's very much can be a side thing if you are treating it like it's the only thing

really, and you're willing to give it the time and the number of fucks it requires. There's a lot, a lot of fucks. Exactly. There's a point where you only have so many you can give. So you got to know what is that for you. So I think that especially if someone wants to transition from a side thing to a main thing. But yeah, if it's like you're saying, if it's like, hey, I look good, I bet you I can just throw up some pictures and get some clients. Give them my macros. And if it didn't work for them, then it's their they weren't sticking to it obviously right yeah girls they can have 800 calories a day guys 1500 whatever and do two hours of cardio a day and that's that's what i did so yeah and what's the thing with fitness though right is it's everyone wants it to be mathematical in the studies and the science when it's like bro people are going through things you know like you a lot of times the reason people mess up their fitness

goals is because something else is going on. They can't deal with their stress, their family lives, whatever they. That's a good point. How do you help people through that kind of stuff? Because that's also something that I, myself, I haven't, I haven't touched on that much. I mean, I've, I've written and spoken about self-discipline and self-control and that kind of stuff. But yeah, I mean, it's relationship building like there. And I think it's easy. I want to say kind of easier for us is because we're seeing someone through a prep at least. So for most people, if we take on an athlete as a weekly client, we're taking them on for

it's not like an eight week, 12 week program. It's like, OK, we're at least six months to know each other really well. And so a lot of times if, like say we have a medical student and it's finals, it's like, that's when your diet break is because I don't want you to lose your shit kind of thing. Yeah. And hopefully, you know, part of that relationship building process isn't for us to just make decisions, but it's for that relationship to build enough so that the client is able to tell us, I am so hungry now.

Like I am, you know, to where they're not scared to look a little bit vulnerable to us. And that's an important part of relationship building is not just, oh, I know my clients so well. It's like, they need to be so comfortable to be able to tell me things they can't tell their husband, their kids or whatever, because I need to know. Like you don't want them going in as if it's like buds training, like they're trying to become a Navy SEAL or something. Well, yeah. And like, of course we want that mentality, right? We want you to do whatever it takes, but not to where it's stupid, you know? And, and again, like someone who comes into like, okay, I'm doing this bodybuilding prep or whatever. I'm going to be a competitive power lifter. They, they do need to be a badass to some

point, but again, it's our job to teach them there are other ways to go about things. There are smarter ways to go about things. Managing expectations is a big thing. Relationship building is a big thing. And setting expectations is a big thing, right? So it's one of those two where we get an athlete and our plan is to get you contest shredded in six months. Well, if we're two months away from the show, things have happened. It's my job to have the talk with you now, not the day before your show.

Right. So it makes sense. Yeah. So relationship building is such a huge deal. Like it's my job to make my athlete comfortable with me. Right. People forget that. Right. Yeah. Good point. So pivoting back to coaching. So let's say, let's say for the people that are listening that are, uh, we're considering trying to like, they want to go about finding a coach. What would you say are some of the red flags? Like if you see someone doing this kind of thing, pass them. Pass over them and find someone else. I think absolutes in numbers are really scary.

Promises, guarantees, so many weeks, so many pounds, so much percent. So, you know, because like I said, everything's, you can't guarantee anything. Like I said, we have this six month plan, but if things have happened and it's two months away, like I can't honestly guarantee anybody anything. I can guarantee you my best effort. I can guarantee you honesty. You know, I can guarantee all that stuff. But, but so when you see, and I don't think it's just fitness, just in general, if you're going to work with someone and they're hiring or throwing out guarantees and plans or whatever that, that they know they can do this for you, it's, that tends to be a red flag. Another thing is, um, would you

say though that like, cause I mean, I would think I could see that definitely with what you're doing, but lucky, let's say you have someone that is just overweight and they've never really tried to lose weight. I would be comfortable if I were working with them. I would say, if you can just do what I'm saying and I'm going to work with you and try to make it as comfortable as possible and we're going to make this enjoyable. But if you could just do what I'm going to tell you, I could guarantee that you can lose a pound, two pounds a week if that person is very overweight, at least for the first, um, first bit, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's different to the

caveat of like, I can guarantee it's possible. I can guarantee that if you do what I, with all these things that, yeah. But I mean, again, we don't know if they get three days in and binge. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, that's the case though. That's like, that's where understanding, like I can guarantee that this is physiologically possible. You can it's healthy. There's nothing wrong with it. You're not going to lose a bunch of muscle, but nothing's guaranteed unless you do the work. That's true. Unless you do the work. Another thing, too, is do you do you know them? I think it's really crazy when they're like, man, they look good. This person looks good. I need to work with them. It's like, who else have they helped? Are there any other stories? Where

is their content online that not just shows what they look like, but shows that they know what they're talking about? Like you said, you're a writer. There's articles, there's posts, there's a digital library of all the things that you know to prove that you're not just a face and a body. to prove that you're not just a face and a body. And I think that it's really strange to me how people don't consider that. Like, I like the way this person looks, but do I like what they're saying? Do I like what they stand for?

Do I like how they've built their business? Do I like the videos they make, the things they say? And it's, I think just doing your research. We could blanket it all, like do your research. Don't into who the person is. I agree. I mean, especially when you're talking about, because there are so many coaches out there, so many people in this space, I mean, there's no scarcity. So if someone, I mean, if someone is only on Instagram and they don't produce content otherwise, then unless they're

very insightful in their Instagram captions, it's going to be, it's going to be hard to know, like who is this person really just to your point? Whereas, and that's not really to say that like you should just find someone like me or someone like you, but kind of, it doesn't have to be me or you, but if, if I were, you know, starting out newly, I could definitely see looking at it that way going, I don't know, you know, I'm going to find someone whose stuff I can really digest and who I can really get a sense of. And, and if I'm going to find that person that I resonate with, as opposed to just someone that looks really good. And I wish I looked like that. So who knows? Right. And there's, and I think just being aware of the kind of content that you're susceptible to getting hyped up about, right? Like if,

and this isn't to say, like I started as a YouTuber back in the day with my last contest prep in 2013. Right. But I think that it's our responsibility as adults to recognize, like, there's YouTube blogs, right? Days in the life. And then there's, like, informational perspective or sharing. Even if it's not that you came up with all this research, like, you at least study the right people and you're adopting the right principles that make sense. So I think just self-awareness in general, you know,

and thinking like, why do I like this person? Why do I like this person? Why do I want to do what they say? And if it's just, I want to look the way they look, that's one, not only probably not enough, but two, why do you need to look like they look? Like, what are your goals? So then it's like assess kind of just, again,

asking yourself like why you're doing what you're doing and why you want to be associated with this person and why you trust them. Because it's a big deal. Yeah, yeah, I agree. And, why you're doing what you're doing and why you want to be associated with this person and why you trust them. Because it's a big deal. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And to that point of looking a certain way, I think what you were saying earlier with expectation management speaks to that in that there are, I mean, genetics play a big role in, obviously, as you know and as everybody listening has heard me just talk about, but, you know,, in terms of like, not just how quickly you're going to gain muscle, but also how you're going to look, uh, you know, how your muscle bellies form. I mean, some, some guys and some

girls, uh, you, you take their, their body composition and you match it with somebody else's genetics and they're going to look quite different. So I think that, um, you know, yeah, I think Greg Plitt looked awesome. Can I ever look like him? No. Like my abs will never be his. They can't be unless I could get some amazing surgery that like fixes my abs. That's not going to happen. Yeah. Same here.

Like I do really well. I think last time I competed, last time I dieted for figure, I got second place in all my shows. But I'm not built for figure. I have a pretty wide waist. I pose well. But I'll never be like, pose well but i'll never be like you know i'll never be the top of the pros at the ifpa or whatever like that's that's just not me but i know that i can i'm confident that i can help people i have athletes that look better

than i do like and that's okay that's exciting same i've i've gotten success stories because a lot of people they'll like read a book of mine which is cool and then they'll just do it for six months or so or a year even and then just email me and be like hey i read your book of mine, which is cool. And then they'll just do it for six months or so, or a year even. And then just email me and be like, Hey, I read your book and I did it and check it out. And I've all, sometimes I'm like, I wish I looked like that dude. He looks, he looks awesome. That's fucking great. Yeah. And just not forget things like forgetting that like angles matter. Like if you see all these Insta pictures, like that's very true. Ass to waist ratios aren't usually like that in real life. You know, I've seen this person straight ahead and not just turned and they don't always look like that. Yeah. And that's also something to keep in mind,

I guess, is a good point on Instagram. If you're talking about people that really take their Instagram seriously, I'm a complete dilettante with social media because I don't like it. So like I just am very random. I don't even, I don't do the like take 500 pictures and get the one that makes me look like, you know, three points better than I actually look. But that's what a lot of people do. And I understand why, like, if I really wanted to grow my Instagram, I would have to do that. I mean, that's part of the game, right? It's like, it's not about showing people your life. It's about showing people what you want them to think your life is. Yeah. And I think just recognize the difference between, you know,

lifestyle marketing and coaching. They're just different. And unfortunately, another thing that it's no one's fault necessarily, but a lot of these people who are fitness lifestyle marketing actually think that they're coaching, you know, it's, it's, and that's why it's like our responsible and our, like someone looking for a coach. It's like, we have to be able to ask ourselves those questions. But like you said, a lot of things right now that you're getting, and so are we with 3d is a lot of times people wanting to start their coaching business, right? Yes. And I think something that's the very first, very first step that I think people want to skip. And it's the biggest, most time intensive step is you, like we said, you got to show people, you know what you're talking about. And you, you write like crazy, produce videos like crazy. We have, you have this podcast, 3d has a podcast. We have our YouTube channel and we have, you know, and that's how I found 3d MJ was their YouTube channel.

Cause I'm the only addition since they started in 2009. Oh, cool. I'm the only person. Yeah. I'm the only person that's been added since they started. And I found out about them through their YouTube channel back then. And that's how I knew, okay, that's who I want to work with after watching them for like a year and obsessing. I'm not saying you have to watch for a year, but that's how people know you. You could be the best coach in the world, but if no one knows your lives, then you're not going to be able to make a living. Definitely. Yeah, and that's where I mean you have to, I'll run into that myself. We have to like walk that line where you want to be a good marketer, but you don't want to be over the top with it and, you know, turn into just a walking pile of

clickbait basically. You know what I mean? So, so I understand how that is, but to that point, well, that's a good segue to, okay. So people that are listening that are interested in becoming a coach. Now that's, I totally agree with the first step. Maybe we can elaborate or you can elaborate on. So to those people out there that say, Hey, I really want to coach and I want to do it right. I don't just want to, you know, rip people off and get their money and not care about them. I want to, I want to, you know, be like you. Um, how does that, how does that play out? Well, first you have to be educated enough to help the people that you're serving. Right. And so I realized that for 3DMJ, it's a little bit different. We work with, um, they don't have to be elite level,

but we do work with competitors, right? We do have some Gen Pop people that come and say like, Hey, I want to be a, I want to get on stage in the next three years. So they might be on like our ongoing slow Skype program until we do weekly coaching as they approach their show. But I get for us, it's our responsibility. We've all competed. We've all done the things that we're asking our people to do. Right. And if you want to coach Jen Pop, get your basic certification. You don't have to be a thousand steps ahead. And then you have to be a little bit ahead. And a lot of people, it's just the accountability that makes the difference in their lives. Right. So just, it's true. Yeah. At least do what you're asking them to do and then be a few steps ahead and continue your education.

And like I said, when we... How do people do that? Now, I'm actually, I'm just proposing the questions that I ask. So I know because I've said those things, but then been emailed like, that makes sense in theory, but there's so much stuff. Like what is education? Like you're saying, there's so much content. There's so many YouTube videos, who to listen to and so forth. Well, I think just knowing who you want to help first, right?

So if five, 10 years ago, I was like, I want to be a bodybuilding coach. Well, I hadn't competed in bodybuilding yet. So that wasn't even an option in my mind. Um, it was like, uh, I want to serve the people that have seen me be in pretty good shape my whole life. And then ask me, how'd you do that? So the easy first step, I think it's so valuable to be an in-person personal trainer. I think just because then you learn the, I have to keep this person motivated for an hour, right? I have to be. So I think if you want to do it online, I think in-person is a great way to start. And if you want to get, yeah. And if you want to get paid for it online or in-person, I think the best way to start is

do it for free first, make sure you're comfortable. Absolutely. Yeah. I've told many people that and gotten weird if i i thought it's like an obvious point but quite a few people were just didn't think like that this wasn't a good enough idea for them yeah i'm smart so you should give me money it's like have you proven that you at least not even 10 success stories go help 10 yeah improve and and make that uh the the stipulation i'm gonna help you for free, but I just need some before and after pictures. And I need you to, you know, maybe even shoot a one minute video to talk about how the experience was when we're done. Yeah. Yeah. Working for free is the best way to get

paid for anything. I mean, it definitely is. And like we talked about, I was the only addition to 3DMJ. So let's talk about 2009. I didn't, they didn't know I was alive. was alive i didn't know they were alive you know these four guys are some of the best natural bodybuilding coaches in the business right and i want to compete i did it myself messed it up of course then i started looking elsewhere like how can i make this better found 3dmj sign on with them okay now i'm their athlete and throughout that i did i think 104 videos tracking my prep on YouTube for free. YouTube dollars didn't come into way later and it wasn't even a lot to live off of, but I turn, I turn my YouTube advertising off. I'm like, it's just annoying. It makes an insignificant amount of money and it annoys me. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, that's free, right? When we say, okay, maybe you live, I don't know,

maybe you're a hermit. You want to be an online coach, but you don't live by anybody that needs your help. Okay, that's fine. But a way to do things for free, maybe it's not training, but writing is free, making videos is free. You know, that's your time. You're not getting paid for it up front, but you're at least now creating a library of here's, you know, how I'm qualified to help people. Here's how when I'm online. here's you know how I'm qualified to help people yeah here's how when I'm online so I think working for free doesn't necessarily have to be dollars for hours in terms of in person with the service you want to do but it's your marketing budget of time yeah yeah you have to give something it's

that point of reciprocity really that and asking for something before giving is a harder sell it's just a harder proposition what do you think about just even to just go back to your first point of, so you have someone, I mean, I, I've told many people that the first thing is you have to look the part. You have to like, look the way that the people that you're wanting to coach, they would have to look at you and be like, yeah, I would, I would like to look like him or her. You don't have to be at the 95% of your genetic potential, but you know, cause I've heard from many people that, uh, really, I mean, you like guys that they're brand new. I mean, it's fine, but what are your thoughts on people in that position? Like, but they want to, they're really have a passion. I don't, you know, I don't know. I'm kind of on the fence in that. Like,

is it, should it, should it be, cause it takes, obviously it takes at least a year to really start putting together a physique as you know, unless you're like starting someone like that has done gymnastics their entire life. And now they already have such a base or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, honestly, I ran it, I ran into this problem all the time because, you know, even me kind of, I guess, later in my career, it's like because I'm helping elite level athletes, I only looked figure lean for a few couple years of my life, few months of my life, you know? Yeah, but you did it. in a, if your personal training, right? If I'm working with silver sneakers programs at the YMCA, like I can just be at a healthy body composition, maybe a little chunky. It's okay because I'm working with elderly people who are sitting in chair doing their thing. If I want people

who want to get in their best shape of their life, I want to be not only just healthy, but an example, right? I mean, that's the best marketing there is to right is be the example of what you're trying to get out of your people you know but then again if it's a performance coach like say it's a baseball coach well he probably doesn't look like the baseball players maybe not uh weightlifting coaches right some people get into weightlifting that's a hard like i mean you're going to try to sell yourself like a mark ripito like yeah you're not going to want to look like mark but you might like to know some of the things that he knows about weightlifting. Yeah. But at that point in his career, right, he's created, okay, I've made all these athletes.

Exactly. There's my body of work, you know, and my books on this subject. And so I think it all is in the marketing message and everyone has their ups and downs, right? Maybe you're not in the best shape of your life right now, but are you at least in a, are you someone they want to be collectively? Right. So maybe you're 10 pounds over, but you're still knowledgeable. You still put out great content. You still, you know, and vice versa. Like I think it all kind of collectively contributes to like, I am qualified because of all these things. Now granted, if you're 50 pounds over, it doesn't matter how much. If I'm a bodybuilding coach who's obese, yeah.

Unless again, unless you were like a superstar in your time and now you just don't care. I mean, that's, so that's out there. I'm sure that's out there. Right, but at that point, again, like we say, there's probably decades of evidence of your body of work. But it's, you know, I think a lot of things too is because fitness is so mental and emotional that it's like if you are that far overweight, I highly doubt it's just like I like eating. There's probably some other psychosocial thing that you're not dealing with, which how am I going to help people through their mental and emotional relationships with food and training if I don't have mine in check. Yeah, that's true. It's a good point. Having gone through that though

is valuable. Like sometimes I even run into that with people where I can't honestly say I've really struggled with the same problems that they have. So it can be hard for me to, I feel like I can offer canned advice that I've heard from other people, but I can't really empathize and know what they're going through and say, Oh yeah, I had that exact problem. Yeah. That's kind of hard. That's where, this is going to sound so cheesy, but that's where like self-development comes in. Are you reading the books? Are you, you know, like it's one of those, like, are you smart enough to be able to relate other industries to yourself? So maybe I don't, maybe you've never been overweight as a, not you in particular, but I want to coach. It's always been kind of easy for me to be in shape.

Do I go read the obesity books? Do I read the psychology and the studies behind other people? What have people found? There's a million scientifically backed books. And if you don't understand research, that's fine. The Willpower Instinct is a great book. Yeah, that's fine. Like the willpower instinct is a great, it's a good book. Yeah. That's a great book. I feel like that had nothing, not nothing to do, but it's like about habit forming and all that stuff where it's like, that's totally up our alley working with

bodybuilders, you know? And it's, are you smart enough? And are you thinking about it enough to realize that, okay, this book that's really about having a more productive life actually can help your gen pop weight loss clients. Like totally. Yeah. No, I told you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the reasons why I like to read fairly broadly and just look for just principles that are fundamental enough to, you know, apply to more than just whatever the context of the book is. So I totally agree with that yeah what about credentials for for coaches like how much you know i mean how because you'll see uh anyone can get a certification online that says they're a certified personal trainer doesn't really mean anything right i think it goes both

ways like i've of all the certification programs that i've seen or dealt with or whatever because i have my bachelor's and my master's in ex-phys and all that stuff. And like, we had to take all that growing up. But when I was in grad school, right, for exercise physiology, and I did my first figure season, that degree did not help me. You know, like getting dieting for contest leanness is different than like the sports nutrition class I had that taught me how to fuel runners. Like that's just very different. So I think it's the one place that we, Eric's worked with Shredded by Science Academy is a really good one. But where I'm getting with

that is like, that's of all the certifications I know, I can think of one that's like, I think bodybuilding coaches should get it. Everything else it's like, well, that's gen pop-ish. And even then, I don't know. I think it's way more about you as a human and being resourceful than it is about the credentials. Unless again, you you have a very specific i want to work with a pro sports team and strength conditioning well you need some certifications you need your cfcs if you want to work at gold gym i think they have their own like but as far as yeah as far as you unless there's a specific job you want that you know up front has those credentials i would argue that you're probably better off on your own because you know, the people you want to work with. Right. Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. So are there any other things that people should

look out for? So we've covered, we've covered a couple. People should look out for, what do you think? That are, that are, that are red flag type things. Yeah. I mean, I would say, I would say I would add cookie cutter. I mean, you kind of mentioned that, but there are I mean, because I just know because we've had quite a few people come to us from other programs that so they get into it. So they it looks it looks decent on the outside and they get into it. And then it's very it's very cookie cutter and also very restrictive. So it's everybody's following more or less the same workout program. And it's a ton of cardio. It's a ton of exercise, a ton of weightlifting. And then it's, you know, eating rice and chicken and broccoli six times a day. And that's it. And very dogmatic, not really explaining why, just what, this is, this is what you have to do. And this is, this is just what people do. Right. And I think that that stuff that you would hope you could, that red flag would come up in the way that someone presents themselves or their, their, um, I don't know. Cause you wouldn't know until you're in it. Down to the judgment of the person though. Cause like you do have people that they'll

produce content. Maybe there's content that you and I would roll our eyes at, but I can, I can understand being totally new to something and you know, it's, it is an article or it is a video. The person sounds knowledgeable and they, they look good. So yeah, maybe it's not the level of due diligence that, that you're recommending, but people feel like they did do some, you know what I mean? Like this person does look and then they get into it and then they're like, well, really, this is what this is. I have to exercise 15 hours a week. And yeah, I think maybe it depends. Like if I'm signing up for something and someone says, here's a 12 week protocol, I would hope that I am registering that that's like, oh, that's the normal thing they give to people versus like I signed up for weekly coaching. Yeah.

So therefore, I expect this person. I would think however you start this process, if I'm signing up for weekly any type of coaching, that coach should probably want to know something about me. Yeah. Not just my body weight and my heights, but like my goals, my timeline, maybe a Skype call, maybe an introductory phone call, maybe a very lengthy application. But if it's just like body weight, height, gender, okay, I'm good. Yeah, I think that that would be another red flag too, right? Like you don't even know who I am. How can you coach me?

Yeah, I totally agree. Okay be another red flag too, right? Like you don't even know who I am. How can you coach me? Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. Okay, one more question for you. So looking forward here, I mean, obviously health and fitness is just getting more and more popular. I don't think that trend is going to reverse any time soon at all. So we're just going to see more and more people entering the space in terms of coaching. And so for people now that are coaching or wanting to get into it right now, what are your thoughts on how they can stay credible in when the space itself is just going to get dirtier and it's going to get murkier as more and more people, you know, because it's not

like there's some regulatory body that's going to come in and do anything about it. It's kind of, we have to, we have to develop our own immune system in that, in that sense. So I don't know. What are your thoughts on like, what are you, I mean, you have the affiliations that you're obviously not, you're you and you have your affiliations. So you're kind of protected, but what about for the loan, the loan person out there? I think the loan person is understanding how much free work getting your name out there. It's going to take, I don't know. I don't think there is a shortcut to... There might be other branding ways to stand out once you're established,

but I think the volume of free content that you're going to have to give to establish your credibility in an online space is pretty large. Aligning with people like, yeah, people know who I am because of 3D, right? I did my own thing for a little while, but mostly because there's five of us attacking this, right? is pretty large aligning with people like yeah people know who i am because of 3d right i did my own thing for a little while but mostly because there's five of us attacking this right so maybe that is a mastermind maybe that's cross promotions with people that you're really in tune with but end of the day like you said people have to know who you are so i don't think that there's a fast track besides produce a bunch of stuff you're proud of that

shows who you are and consistently do it and And I think too, you'll, you'll always refine that, right? Like your website's different than it was two years ago. Mine's my whole, like now I host podcasts where I was like, I YouTubed my face off for like three years for anyone to know I existed, you know? So it's just, um, maybe find one or two places that you're comfortable. Maybe that's writing, maybe that's video, maybe that is a podcast, but dive all in and do it as fast and as aggressively as you can with a way to establish your credibility. But I don't think that there's, and I think too, we have to find some comfort in the fact that there are all these smaller players or these part-timers that it'll show eventually, you know, it's, they'll, they'll get frustrated. They're not making enough money. They'll get frustrated.

They don't have enough clients. They'll realize, oh, maybe I do just do lifestyle marketing and selling shirts is easier. I think I see some of that. We're like, I'll just create these nonsensical vlogs of me trying to, you know, virtue signal and just, you know, make people think that I have this wonderful life. And oh, by the way, I have this dumb shirt if you want to buy it. Like the fact that that works kind of bothers me, but hey. But it's, it's lifestyle marketing. I have to, it's weird, right? Fitness has become, there's fitness marketing and there's fitness information and they're just different industries. And I think even the people within them get confused with where they fit in there. Sure. I think it kind of comes to what you were saying earlier, where know your target market, know who it is you're going after. If you want to sell to impressionable 19 year olds, then lifestyle marketing. Yeah. Like if you look good and if you have a body and especially if you

have money, it's easy. Just do stupid vlogs and you know, just make them go guy. I wish that way that I would, I wish I were that cool and that's it. But if you want to work with older, uh, more mature, educated, real people that are into fitness for different reasons, then that, that shit's not going to work. Like they could, they could care less about your vlog and you trying to flaunt your car and shit. I know exactly what you mean and all the people you're talking about. It just means nothing. Yeah.

And I think too, one mark of being a professional, right? And being someone that's going to end up where they want to be is not being afraid to turn down the people that you don't want to work with. So if you decide I'm working with these kind of people, when people approach you that aren't your kind of people, sorry about it. Like I got this thing I want to do. And that's really hard when you're just starting out and you want to make money and you want to take on anyone. And I agree, maybe the first 10 you take like whoever, and of these 10, which ones are working with me, which ones drive, which, who do I like helping and who am I like, that's really not my thing. which ones are working with me, which ones drive, which, who do I like helping and who am I like,

that's really not my thing. And then it sucks. But the more years you do it, the more you realize who you like being around, who you maybe you could do it just because you can do it doesn't mean you should, I guess is. Totally. No. And that becomes very important. I think, I mean, that's somebody that, so they've established themselves and now they have to decide where they go or in the beginning you do have to say yes a lot but then at some point it becomes more important to say no to what to what you're saying to the things that don't make sense i mean i can say in my and just in my work so i get asked a lot to do vlogs i refuse i just tell people like it's fine you can ask me to do vlogs i will not do vlogs because they they take time for one even if i it, all I have to do is just be in front of a camera and everyone else takes care of everything else. It still takes time. And it's

not the crowd that I'm trying to work the most with. And also it's not something I enjoy, but I enjoy writing. But it's also nice that the people that I like to work most with and that I resonate most with are people that tend to read things. And so I'll just stick with that. You know what I mean? But I could just, I mean, if I were maybe more narcissistic, I might be like, oh, it'd be, I mean, I could get all the YouTube love and I could make these blogs and show things off and how cool would that be? So it's, I don't know, just a personal example of trying to apply what you're saying. Yeah. And same here.

I mean, like there's five of us coaches, but we don't just within our coaching team, right? We have our own responsibilities and like I kind of run the whole web, I mean, the podcast operation. And there's a lot of things that I'm always working on the back end that we're kind of trying to change and stuff. And because of that, like I have less clients than say like three of us coach full-time and two of us actually don't because we have these other responsibilities

that are indirectly helping bring in more business, more clients, more product sales or whatever. And like you said, it's just picking and choosing what works for you. Totally. And that's the thing, you can obviously coach, but you're like, I need to build this brand. So I've taught my ways to these other people that can help service better.

That's a great example. But anyways, that's later down the road. I guess that's not for the new coaches, but it's important. Totally. I agree. Cool. Well, I think we've covered pretty much everything that was on our little outline there. So the last thing is just where can everybody find you?

I mean, this is a kind of a repeat of they understand i think because eric is in the last one but we're and you said you're more in the back but no you want to what do you want to say what do you got going on in your world that you think people should know about i got everything in my world because i'm always going that you want people to know about yeah yeah no no um well 3dmusclejourney.com is our team right that's where you can sign up for coaching services learn a little about us our podcast episodes are there there is i mean if you want to follow me personally at av underscore fit on snapchat instagram twitter all that stuff that's uh i'm obsessed with training and i post videos about it every day. Snapchat, I love that.

I guess my mini vlogs right now. I love Snapchat. I'm obsessed with it. Twitter's cool. I kind of wish I liked social media because I know it's such a thing and people ask me so much to be better at it. If you're doing one, Snappy Chat.

It's the laziest and the funnest. Funnest isn't a word. The most fun. No, I think funnest, funner is not a word. Funnest is a word, I'm pretty sure. All right. Well, it's like 10 seconds at a time. And there's's these filters when you not that this is a problem you have but like you can look like trash but then still be beautiful at the same time it's all lighting

anyways I look bad it's so fun dude it's so fun you have to anyway snapchat instagram ab underscore fit cool and that'll link out to everything else that is going on oh the muscle and strength pyramids if you're a new coach, yeah. Eric and, uh, Eric Helms, Andrew Valdez, Andy Morgan. We wrote the muscle and strength pyramids at muscle and strength pyramids.com. Legit. If you don't want to invest in a very large amount of money, 100% think that if you have the basis for that, you can kind of manipulate body composition as much as you'd like. Yeah. No, they're great books. I've recommended them many times to myself. Thanks. Appreciate that. Yeah. Okay, great. Well, I think that's everything. Thanks. All right. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot for taking the time.

Yeah. See ya. Cool. Hey, it's Mike again. Hope you liked the podcast. If you did go ahead and subscribe. I put out new episodes every week or two where I talk about all kinds of things related to health and fitness and general wellness. Also head over to my website at www.muscleforlife.com where you'll find not only past episodes of the podcast, but you'll also find a bunch of different articles that I've written. I release a new one almost every day. Actually, I release kind of like four to six new articles a week and you can also find my books and everything else that I'm involved in over at muscleforlife.com. All right, thanks again. Bye.