Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Brooke Ence on Getting “Superhero Fit” and Winning in Business

Episode Date: July 14, 2021

In this podcast, I interview Brooke Ence, an entrepreneur, actress, and CrossFit icon, which she became after winning 1st place in the California Regional at the 2015 CrossFit Games (her first year competing, by the way). She looks the part too, which is how she’s garnered over 1.5 million followers on Instagram, and landed roles as an Amazon warrior in Wonder Woman, Justice League, and Black Lightning. Reaching this level of performance and maintaining the look isn't easy, of course, and in this episode, we chat about Brooke’s story and how she ended up here. Specifically, we talk about . . . Her history in sports and athletics How she got involved in CrossFit and what it was like training (alone) for the CrossFit Games The data and mindset required to perform at your peak Why you have to do more than just "show up" Genetics and natural talent versus drive Social media and vlogging And more . . . So if you want to learn how Brooke became the “superhero” she is today, check out this podcast and let me know what you think! Timestamps: 6:09 - What has your journey been? How did you get into this? 25:35 - What kind of headspace do you go into when things are not going your way? Mentioned on the Show: Brooke Ence’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brookeence/ Brooke Ence’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiT4lJYXVC5Ev8Mlp8o7-Zg Brooke Ence’s Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/between-the-reps-with-brooke-ence-jeanna-cianciarulo/id1438658181 Encewear: https://encewear.com/ Naked Training App: https://www.nakedtraining.app/ Books by Mike Matthews: https://legionathletics.com/products/books/ Want free workout and meal plans? Download my science-based diet and training templates for men and women: https://legionathletics.com/text-sign-up/

Hello, my favorite fitness friends. I'm Mike Matthews. This is Muscle for Life. Thanks for joining me today to hear an interview I did with Brooke Entz, who is a CrossFit icon at this point. She is an entrepreneur. She is an actress. And she first burst onto the fitness scene in 2015 when she took first place in the California regional at the CrossFit Games. And that was her first year competing. And so a lot of people were like, whoa, who is this lady? Now, as you can imagine, Brooke looks the part. She is super fit. And that has helped her land roles as an Amazon warrior in movies and shows like Wonder Woman, Justice League, and Black Lightning.

And in this interview, we talk about her story. We talk about her history in sports and athletics and how she found her way into CrossFit. And we talk about what it took to reach the level of fitness and performance that put her on top of the CrossFit pile. She talks a bit about the mindset that's required to perform at your best and to perform at a world-class level and why it takes more than just showing up. We get into genetics and natural talent versus nurture and drive. We bond a little bit over our intense dislike of social media and more. Also, if you like what I'm doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my health and fitness books, including the number one best-selling weightlifting books for men and

women in the world, Bigger Leaner Stronger and Thinner Leaner Stronger, as well as the leading flexible dieting cookbook, The Shredded Chef. Now, these books have sold well over 1 million copies and have helped thousands of people build their best body ever. And you can find them on all major online retailers like Audible, Amazon, iTunes, Kobo, and Google Play, as well as in select Barnes & Noble stores. And I should also mention that you can get any of the audiobooks 100% free when you sign up for an Audible account. And this is a great way to make those pockets of downtime like commuting, meal prepping, and cleaning more interesting, entertaining,

and productive. And so if you want to take Audible up on this offer, and if you want to get one of my audio books for free, just go to www.buylegion.com slash audible and sign up for your account. So again, if you appreciate my work and if you want to see more of it, and if you want to learn time-proven and evidence-based strategies for losing fat, building muscle and getting healthy and strategies that work for anyone and everyone, regardless of age or circumstances, please do consider picking up one of my best-selling books, Bigger Leaner Stronger for Men, Thinner Leaner Stronger for Women, and The Shredded Chef for my favorite fitness-friendly recipes. Hey, Brooke, thanks for taking the time to come and talk with me. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for the call. Yeah, yeah. So I thought it would be fun to start with how you got into fitness and

how you got into CrossFit. And the reason why that usually I was just explaining when I do interviews, I kind of skip people's stories or backgrounds or bona fides and just get to practical information. We're usually talking about one topic and okay, teach us some things. But in your case, I think it would be fun. I'm sure there will be practical information along the way, but I thought it would be fun to start with your story. And particularly because I've worked with virtually and heard from many, many thousands and thousands of women over the years. Many of these women are just getting into or have just gotten into fitness seriously for the first time, particularly resistance

training. And that's what I preach. Cardio is great. And of course it has particularly cardiovascular benefits. But for what I have been saying since the beginning is most people, they have maybe three to five hours a week to give to their fitness. And it makes sense to put most of that time into getting stronger and gaining muscle. And many women, of course, that's not the advice that they have been used to hearing. And so I know many women have been intimidated in the beginning. Like they didn't know if this is really going to help them kind of get where they want to be. Many women were concerned that they were going to look like an NFL linebacker if they lifted

weights for just six months. The amount of times I've had women tell me, even on the street, because it's not just in the gym. I get people that come into the gym and will talk to me about wanting me to give them some advice or whatever. But majority of those conversations are airports, coffee shops, walking around towns. It's just out and about. And I've had on many occasions, a woman say to me, I want to look like you, but not as big as you. That's interesting. How do you take that? And I say, you won't. Yeah. That reminds me of the anecdote with Arnold where he had said,

somebody, I would never want to look like you. And he's like, don't worry, you won't. Yeah, you won't. And I explained to them, you have to understand, one, you don't have the time to put in the amount of work that it would take for you unless you were just genetically predisposed to having a really strong physique, which I am. But even then, for me, it's years. It's consistency for years. And then I also explained to them too, well, right now, after surgery and the years that I've had, but it's like I get stronger. I'm training constantly. The better you get, the stronger you get, the longer it takes for you to have jumps. It takes longer for you to

apply enough stress to your system to have an adaptation. And that's why you have to be so consistent. This doesn't happen overnight. It's years of work. And no one goes into that type of training thinking about, I don't want to overdo it. There's a reason behind it. So as long as you know your goal and you're training hard to reach your goal, I mean, that's the journey you're on. You're not on mine. What has your journey been? How did you get into this? I'm assuming it was fitness first, then you found CrossFit. And then how did you go from that to deciding you wanted to compete and see how far you could get in the sport? Yeah. Well, it was dance first. I grew up always wanting to do everything for one. My parents always gave me shit because they're like, you can't do it all. And I'm like, yes, I can.

Like that. We laugh about it because I still kind of, I guess I'm definitely still the same person, whether it's in different business ventures or, you know, I'm still in fitness. I'm not competing, but I'm also getting into entertainment. In the entertainment world, I want to try everything. But I danced. I grew up dancing and singing until I went to college. Then I went to University of Utah. I was a modern dance major, but I had played sports growing up. I played, obviously, where I'm from. Every kid plays soccer. I do wish that I would have... Soccer wasn't a huge sport in Southern Utah when I was growing up. It's a lot more of a... Out here, it's baseball, softball,

football. But I played softball really competitively. And I ran, I swam when I was young. Both my sisters are swimmers. I did gymnastics when I was really young. I broke my arm outside of gymnastics. But after it healed and I got my cast off when I was really young. I broke my arm outside of gymnastics, but after it healed and I got my cast off, I was so nervous of re-breaking it because I witnessed that happen to a girl and I never went back. So I was always really athletic and I always had a very athletic frame. I mean, both my parents were athletes. Genetically, like my mom, I've had big arms my whole life. I was teased a lot growing up. Went to the University of Utah. I was a modern dance major. There was a teacher who came to teach a class. It was a

kickboxing class. They brought in... Because in the dance department, we have all of our core classes. But they would bring in every once in a while someone who would... They would teach us a different type of workout class type situation. And she was amazing. And I'm, I remember being in class, I'm looking at her because in dance, especially in terms of dance companies, ballet, jazz, modern, all these things, but mostly in with ballet, I knew the few dance companies that I probably could ever try and aspire to be a part of audition for.

And there were many that I never really could have... At the time, this was my mindset. Because some people might hear this and be like, well, you could have been first. But the reality was, it's purely based on my physique. So I saw her come and we did this dance type fitness class, kickboxing. And she had this physique that I was like, you kind of look like me, like really buff. And is the dance point, you're supposed to be very thin. Is that the. In ballet or like, you know, I really loved dance companies like Alvin Ailey. That's very, it's modern, but they all have these very strong bodies, but let's just speak in terms of ballet.

I was very built. And in terms of my upper body, we'll just stick to that. I remember so many times being in ballet class at the university, and it was just like, soften your arms. And I'm like, I'm soft, man. I am like, I just look like I'm not. And trying so hard. You look at ballerinas and they are very strong, but where they're the most strong and that it shows physically is their legs.

I have muscle, I swear, all the way to my Achilles, to my heel, down my, from being on pointe shoes for so many years. And I met this girl, this woman, and I thought it was what she was doing was so cool. And she looked incredible. What do you do? I talked to her after class. And that's when I kind of got into the world of training for a typical fitness competition, right? Like bodybuilding figure. They had fitness. She was a fitness girl who they kind of like do the one arm pushups and dance around. And that was the first time I got into like training, like in a gym. Because all growing up and in school, like I never really, I played sports and I danced and I danced a lot. Like Monday through Saturday, I was in class all summer long

because I did dance companies all growing up. We would travel. We tons of performances and tons of training. That's kind of how I got more into fitness side. But what happened is I had been in... How I got into CrossFit is I was asked to audition for a show in Las Vegas. It's called La Rev, if they still have it. It's kind of like a Cirque du Soleil show. Yeah. I think I saw that many years ago. I just was trying to figure out how to prepare for it. I needed to be able to do some gymnastics type stuff, rope climbs and things like that. And so I was in Southern Utah where I'm from. And someone had told me about a new gym that had opened.

It was a CrossFit gym. And I went and checked it out. And I worked out with the guy who owned it. It was brand new. And it totally kicked my butt. And prior to this, like the year and a half before this, just training in the gym, I was always an athlete. And I wanted muscle for go and not just muscle for show. And so I really loved it. I loved the athletic side to it. I loved that if you were doing a competition, it had everything to do with the outcome of your performance.

It didn't matter what you looked like. It had nothing to do with what you looked like. It had everything to do with the work you put in. Objective too, right? As opposed to being judged subjectively like, oh, yeah. Your proportions are just not quite there, so you get fifth place. Yes. are just not quite there. So you get fifth place. Yes. And being a girl who had deep insecurities that all kind of stemmed from my body and from growing up and being very insecure about my arms

and always was teased a lot growing up. I'd already just had these deep insecurities. I didn't even really know that were there. I was still so young. I didn't even know how to recognize all of that. So then you get into the world of like subjective judging and you already judge yourself so much, but now you have people standing there being like telling you all these things that are wrong or could be better, or you just don't fit. You don't fit the mold. And so CrossFit was the perfect, I had never felt more at home in a way. That's kind of how I started doing CrossFit. And then from there, I was still a university, full-time dance major. And I'd roughly just very quickly, I had moved to LA. I was living there for a summer. I was dancing and auditioning. And I moved, my parents were like,

you got to go back to school. So that was just for a summer. Went back to school and found a CrossFit gym when I got back because I couldn't afford the CrossFit gyms when I was in LA. Because as soon as I got there, I was like, oh, I got to find one of these gyms. And I couldn't afford it. So when I went back to Utah, to Salt Lake, I found Ute CrossFit. I started going there. They were brand new. And then it kind of got into where, like, do you want to compete? And I was a full-time student. And at the time too, that took precedent. I enjoyed CrossFitting, but it wasn't until I did compete on their team. I went team. That year they qualified for the games, went to the games. We did. I just wasn't

on the games team. But I had yet decided that I wanted to hurt. I was the strong female on the team at our gym and I moved to California. I remember I was spectating at the CrossFit games in 2013. And that year, my coach and my old team, they won the CrossFit games for the affiliate cup. So the team, and I told him after it was all over, I was like, Tommy, I think I want to do this. Because I remember just watching down in Carson and I was just like, this is amazing. And I had already been CrossFitting since I founded it in 2009. I started doing it more regularly 2010. And he just basically told me, he's like, you're not going to like it. And I was like, I know.

I'm not going to like the training that I'd have to do because I wasn't going to be team anymore. And back then to have a really solid team, you kind of pick, you wanted someone, you need someone strong, you need someone fast. You needed, you know, your team was made up of not specialists, but you could have people that had maybe some holes in their game. Now, in the last few years too, you can't. The teams, you want well-rounded athletes. They would do pretty well on their own as an individual athlete. I was like, okay, I'm going to commit for one year, one season. I'm going to train. I was in California. He was in Utah. He sent me

programming every day. I trained by myself. I got my work done. I went to competition. I did the Open. I qualified for regionals. That was the first time I competed in California. And it wasn't until the first day of competition that I had even realized how much better I had gotten because I trained by myself all the time, which a lot of people will tell you, like, you can't train by yourself. You got to train with people that are better than you.

I don't necessarily believe in that. For me, this is like personal opinion. It does depend on the type of person you are and what you need, like what motivates you. But what I learned about me training by myself and especially being an individual athlete is like, no one can make you go, but you. And when you are dying, you are suffering, you're fatigued. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter training with someone or competing next to someone who's going faster. For me, it doesn't motivate me to be losing. If I were training with people that were constantly better than me all the time, it would push me. But one of the biggest key factors in games athletes is their mental game. If you don't have that, you don't got a chance.

Because the second something goes wrong, you will lose it. You have to be able to control your mind. You got to be able to... And that's so true of any high-level sport, really, at an individual level. but you really see it in sports where the team can't pick up the slack, where it is just one person. I think of tennis or I think of golf where you can just see when they start to lose the mental battle, then their performance can just fall off a cliff suddenly. So that's how it started. I went to regionals in 2014. off a cliff suddenly. So that's how it started. I went to regionals in 2014. I won the first event, which blew my mind. And I finished sixth place. And they took that... I don't know.

They do it so different now. But at the time, it was if anyone was on the podium, that it was like a past champ, then they would go. They would take also the next finisher too so like they may take top four versus top three or top five I took six and in NorCal that year they had regionals now regionals they don't have them anymore which I totally miss but they used to have California split in two regions so they would have a competition for SoCal and a competition for NorCal because California is huge. California was like one of the, if not the highest, had the highest level of competition for females. I mean, just monsters. And so many of those women that were competing, a lot of them had been to the games, women that were competing had all like a lot of them had been to the games had been games athletes and so at this point i had been i'd created a schedule i had created a routine i created

a training schedule i was in monday through friday sometimes monday through saturday was it one a day was it two a day how much i'm sure people are wondering like how hard did you have to train to get that good you know i will say this to anyone who's like starting out or you train regularly, but like you just are trying to, you want to take it to the next level. Yeah, don't do this, disclaimer. You can't just all of a sudden take it to the next level.

You don't go from doing like an hour and a half training a day to two sessions doing like two hours in each session. You add volume as your body can handle it. You don't want to break yourself down with muscle. We break it down, it rebuilds. It's how we get stronger. But you have to allow your CNS to recover. You have to pay attention to that. And that's why I think it's so important to have a coach or someone who is well-versed in how your body is going to adapt, what is happening, that how they can pay attention to the signs that you might be showing that you are overreached or overtrained. And rest is good. For me, I would do two days, a couple days a week, but those two days

were usually, you know, would have running for one session. And then one session was lifting in a Metcon or some sort of accessory work. And I'd have an active recovery day, which was usually running or rowing. My coach loved... Oh, man. Anyone listening, you want a hard mental workout? So my coach, that first year I was training to compete for the first time as as individual, we were trying to really increase my capacity in running, in just endurance. Because I grew up with activity-induced asthma. Through this training, I was able to deal with that. Because I think... I mean, I had an inhaler when I was younger. I have an inhaler in the cupboard because if I get really sick, my lungs,

usually it gets attacked first. But it's such a mental thing for me too. You start to, you can't breathe, your chest gets tight, and then you panic and then it makes it worse. And so I was running and my coach would have me do like hour long runs and there was no pace specific. It was just time on, let's just get time on your feet. And we would do 30 minutes and we'd do hour. Well, that changed. I started training for 2015 and my coach, his favorite thing to, and it was everyone who was doing brute. His favorite thing to make us do was like once a week, we had to do max calories on the rower for an hour.

And what does that mean for people wondering max calories? Oh my gosh. Okay. So max calories. I mean, you're getting as many calories as you can in one hour. It is not a leisure row. You are one doing anything for an hour kind of sucks. Like in the same thing, you know, I mean, some people, you know, do marathons and they run and they really, maybe they really enjoy it, but sitting on the rower, your butt starts to hurt. You're never going at a pace that's comfortable. It's always slightly uncomfortable.

Making yourself do that. And you had to. The goal was every time you did it, you could not get less calories than you got the week before. What was your best score? Oh my gosh. I don't know if I can remember. Approximately, if you can remember. I'm just curious. Anybody listening, if you're like, what can I do? What's my max calories on the rover? Well, my best score, I cannot give you an exact number, but probably upwards of, I would be so, I always undershoot these things too of what I actually can do. 1,200 calories.

Yeah. I was going to say it's at least probably a thousand. That's pretty intense. 1300 calories. I was to a point where, I mean, I felt pretty good about this. I was getting more calories than a lot of the men that were under the same sort of structure, like under the same, they were also doing brood. So I was doing brood strength. Yeah. The same instructions, like sit down on that thing and work your ass off. Yes. But what that does, I mean, along with the way we were training and certain formats of workouts and the way they were structured, you are training your body to recover faster. So in the middle of a workout.

And also you train and do different workouts and you do different time domains. You do different weight things. And it's like, you want to have experiences where you push yourself, you redline, you redline, like you don't want to redline, but if you've never redlined, then you don't know what it feels like. And then you don't know what to watch out for because everything to do with that is like, we always say you got to stay awake. I love workouts where you can like blackout, you just move. I love stuff. You don't have to You just move. I love stuff you don't have to think super hard. It's not super technical. And that's just when you just want to work.

You just want to grind. But you also, you need to be aware. You got to be self-aware when you're training. You got to pay attention to what your breath is like. You got to pay attention to what your body feels like. Certain moves, you got to pay attention to at what point, let's say strict movements, strict handstand pushups. At what point am I going to be done? Because you only have so many. It's about being smart. You got to know what you are capable of. You got to know what it feels like to redline and to be done. You learn your paces. So in terms of like rowing, it's like you learn your paces. You learn what can I hold for a long time? Where is that line? What's the threshold of if I go a little bit faster, will I be able to hang on to that for this long?

Probably not. Threshold training is you push the pedal, you push the gas, you know, you're in the middle of a workout. Let's say you're doing a Metcon and you'd never want to be comfortable. The way we get better is you want to push your pace. You push your pace to a point where like,

ooh, you know, things might start to like, feel like they're falling apart a little bit or your technique's getting a little, and so not the way it should be. At that point, you pull back, let off the gas. You regain your technique, regain your breath, and then you do it again. And it feels good.

It feels good. You push a little harder, you go a little faster, and then it starts to get a little bit iffy. So you pull back a little bit. bit, make sure you're doing things right, check in with your body, keep moving, and you do it again. You push the gas again. And this back and forth is you starting to, and if you're paying attention and you're aware, self-aware, you can recognize these paces. You can recognize your breathing. You recognize, it's just all information that

just makes you a better competitor because no one that's really good in competition, and not even in competition, in class. Maybe you have no desire to compete. You love competition, but you just love to go to class and get better and compete with yourself in class. This is information that just makes you better. It makes you a better athlete. It makes you a better competitor. It's experiencing all the ways that a workout can go. It's experiencing, you know, failing, failure in strict movements. It's experiencing failure in lifts because it's just information. And it's not failure. It's information. It lets you know what you need to change, what you should do different next time, where you can win that workout. And you definitely want to know and be realistic with where you'll

lose it. When you show up to game day, you're not going to be fitter. Even the week leading up to it, it's like, what do I do? What do I do? Well, you're as fit as you're going to be. And you have no control over how fit anyone else is. But what you do have control over is your mind and you can be smart. And if you've done the work, you've gotten all the data from your training, then you know where you'll win something and you'll know where you lose something. And if you can make a plan and stick to it to have the best outcome possible for you and you have a killer mindset, you're going to be an incredible athlete and competitor, someone who will only get better and will be very hard for other people to beat, especially people who are mentally weak.

If you like what I'm doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my health and fitness books, including the number one best-selling weightlifting books for men and women in the world, Bigger Leaner Stronger and Thinner Leaner Stronger, as well as the leading flexible dieting cookbook, The Shredded Chef. What kind of headspace do you go into when things are not going your way and when it matters, when there's something at stake? Not that it doesn't matter if you're just in the gym doing a workout, but it's different if you're now, here it is, here's the day you have to perform. Things are not going the way that you'd like. It's not over yet though,

but you're in that, now you're in that fog of war and where you go is going to determine the outcome. I mean, there's been plenty of times where a workout didn't go the way that we had planned. You beat yourself up. You're bummed. Wish I would have done this. I wish I would have done better. I should have gone faster. It's like, well, you can't change any of that. And my coach, this is what he would say to me. This is what we would do and what I would do. He would say, you can be upset for like the next 10 minutes and then you're moving on. We're looking at the next one. We're moving forward. It's okay. Put a time limit on it. Like you're entitled to feel your feelings, feel those, but then you got to move on from it because if you're just going to sit and dwell on

that performance, there's no chance you're going to perform better on the next one because in the back of your mind is like, I'm not good enough or I'm not cut out or I need to be better or I need to be this. It's like all of those thoughts will only bring you down, will only have a negative outcome or you're not going to perform. You won't continue to perform better if that's the headspace that you're in. You have to realize, and this is all practice too.

People who are trying to figure out how do I get mentally stronger? How do I change my mental game? How do I fix this? It's like, well, you, one, that doesn't happen overnight because everyone's different and everyone deals with different insecurities or self-talk or whatever, but it's practice and it's finding things, whether they're messages or words or people that help you get out of that fog or that bad headspace. And for me, it was my coaches. I mean, I would do anything. It's knowing that you can't change how something went. What we can do is learn from it.

And just because you've trained all year for this show, for the big show, it doesn't mean that it's always going to be work. We always are trying to get better. Just because you put in the work doesn't mean you're going to get the reward in terms of podium or money or a trophy. You have to change your mindset where everything is data. There isn't an end point on this journey. It's like, I just, I'm just trying to be better and everyone's different. Everyone gets better at different paces. A lot of people come in, let's say just in CrossFit or any sport, like everyone comes from a different background. So if you have someone who's, it's a workout, it's like all gymnastics and you're competing against some girls or guys

that were gymnasts, well, then you just got to accept that they're probably going to kill it. You know, you got to accept that like, all right, I'm not the best at these, but like, I am really good at that part of this workout and my lungs are, I have strong lungs and I can go for a long time. But so how can I handle this situation where, you know, the muscle ups or the handstand pushups, I'm not going to beat them on that, but where can I beat them? I can beat them in transitions. I can, once I get to that final weight, I'm going to move that barbell way faster than they will and easier because I'm strong. I'm taller. We're going to row. We're doing wall balls. Well, these athletes that are in contention to win, they're short. So you pay attention to what do I have that is going to benefit me and how can I use it? And in this workout, where can I win it? Where can

I lose it? And it's like, it's okay to fail. I think you just put in so much work and in the sport of CrossFit and not even as a sport, as a training method, when you're really into it, you can get in this place where you're not just your body is fatigued and exhausted, but it is mentally, emotionally exhausting. So in any sport or competition, when you've put all these hours and days and focus, and you've made so many sacrifices for something, when you don't have the outcome that you want, it can be very brutal. And it makes complete sense why it is. You've put so much into it and put in this work. You think like, oh, I do this work and then I get that. In reality, there's just so many things that come into play and there's so many things that are completely

out of your control. Programming, your natural ability based on your genetics or your physique or your body. But if you go into it thinking more along the lines of, okay, what did I learn? We should want to fail. We should want to reach those points where something's not working anymore because that's when you get better at that thing. It's like you can't know something if you haven't learned it. I've never been snowboarding, but I just get on a board and I'm like, oh yeah, this will be easy. I'm good at everything. I get on it and I just fall and tumble and fall and it doesn't work. It's like I get mad. My little niece is like this. It's so funny. I get mad and so I just never do it again. You can't be someone who just doesn't want to try stuff just because you're not

good at it the first time you try it. It's funny. My son is kind of like that. He's gotten better. I mean, he's young, he's eight, but he'll quickly dislike something if he's not immediately good at it. Like Lennox, trust me, that's not how it works, dude. You weren't even good at walking. You had to learn that, man. Yeah, it's funny, but it's practice. And I always tell people, you got to be realistic about where you are, like what level you're at. And I would have that conversation when I was coaching full-time with people in class. It's like, I've been here, I've been doing CrossFit for so many years and I still can't do a muscle up. And I'm like, well, do you ever add anything into your training that's to work on that specifically? Like, are you ever doing, you know, after class,

like doing, getting stronger with your pull-ups, doing dips, like training for that? And it's like, well, no, but the way the mindset they have is like, well, I come here six days, doing dips, training for that. And it's like, well, no. But the way the mindset they have is like, well, I come here five days a week and I show up and I train. It's like, well, yes. And that's amazing. And you are getting so much fitter just because you've been putting in work for so long. It doesn't mean that you're just going to be rewarded with all these glamorous skills. If you want that skill, just going to be rewarded with all these glamorous skills. If you want that skill, you have to train for that. Yeah, that's a strategic failure. It's great you have the habit of showing up and putting in the work. That's part of it. But to this point of specificity is really what you're getting at,

like, okay, what is the muscle up? We have the pull-up and then we have the dip. So you're going to have to train specifically for this thing, just because you have a good deadlift or because you can bench press a lot of weight doesn't mean that you're going to be able to muscle up easily. Like just because you're putting in work, like not specific work, but you're putting in work regularly, doesn't mean you'll be rewarded with the things that you think should just like, it's like, you don't just level up and it's like, ta-da, okay. And now you've been here long enough. You've put in enough hours in your training in general. I bet you right now, because you've leveled up, go over there and jump on those rings. You're going to get a muscle up. You don't do very specific trainings for that to increase

your capacity in the pull and the push. But I bet because of years of just showing up to class, you can do one now. It's like, it just doesn't work that way. It'd be nice if it did. I mean, something I've thought about that it relates to something you were talking about, you put in all this work, this could apply to training or business or literally the pursuit of any goal. So you've been smart, let's say about your strategy. You've given thought as to the system you're going to use to get to your goal. You haven't just applied a bunch of kind of random effort, hoping for results and you've worked hard at it, blah, blah, blah. And you didn't get the

outcome you wanted. And sure, that can be disappointing. And I'm speaking really just personally here. This is a way that has helped me kind of process failures of various kinds. I think there's something to be said for the nature of a game. And if any game were that simple, where you just do the work, you do these routine actions, and you're guaranteed the prize, that might sound cool at first. And if we are in certain areas of our life, we may desire that immediately. Let's say financial, if somebody is having financial problems, like, yes, okay, I understand. It would be nice if you just do these actions and you're going to get the money, but that game would become boring. If you were guaranteed the outcome, you'd go looking for a game that has some random element to it, that has some chance worked into it because that's exciting. That makes it fun.

So that's something that I've just stuck in my head as a way to process not getting the outcomes I want. And I don't look at that as even necessarily a negative outcome in the kind of a meta sense where like, well, I would be maybe not concerned, but I would want to look more into what I'm doing and my circumstances if I felt like I was getting unlucky consistently. Like a good game has both, you know, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you get unlucky. But anyways, random comment on when you've worked very hard and you've done everything you can and you still don't get what you want. Well, at that point, let's just say that's the extreme. At that point, this is a hard reality that some people don't want to hear, but it's

the truth. You may never have what it takes to be good at the thing that you're trying to be good at. Not because you won't put in the work, you're not putting the time, but because you genuinely aren't physically made for it. Yeah. I mean, so true in athletics. Dan John, the well-known coach and author, in one of his books, Attempts, he had relayed a little anecdote from, I forget, he mentioned a strength coach or it was an athletics coach who had said that if somebody is not at the top of their sport within a few years, I think I'm remembering this correctly, within a few years, like two, three, probably no more than four years of getting into it, they are never going to be world-class. And I've never been world-class at

anything. So I can't speak personally to that, but it rings true. I grew up playing sports. I didn't take things very far. I was really into, I played a lot of ice hockey. I grew up around kids who played sports. And this is, and then I've subsequently read about this, that you just, you have these kids who they get into something and they're basically just better than everybody right away. And then they get more attention, more coaching, of course that helps them, but then they move up to the next level and they're still just better than everybody and move up to the next level. They're still just better than everybody. And that's kind of their experience throughout their entire time in the activity.

And in college, they are better than everybody. And then eventually they go pro and a lot of them are actually not that great because that's how good people are at that high level. But, you know, just to that point, I think that it's worth saying because it is very realistic. I think when you say good, you probably mean a little bit more than good. Am I guessing? Yes. Because your standard of good, which I understand. I mean, you have a different standard of good than somebody who's, you know, just wants to be quote unquote good at CrossFit in everyday normal person, you know?

Yeah. Have you ever read the book, The Sport Gene? By Epstein? No, no. But I know about it and I've come across snippets of it in other books and stuff. It's a great book for anyone who has any interest in physiology. Yeah, yeah. Genetic advantages and so forth. Yes. It's just very

true. I mean, an obvious example is like, okay, if you're not a certain height, you're not going to make it in basketball. I mean, most people would be like, yeah, sure. That makes sense. And so what you're saying, right. Is just a variation of that principle, basically. Yeah. And then you think about this too. I think about this a lot. You know, you might have kids who they have every genetically, like their length of arms, their length of femurs, their hip width, their shoulder width, whatever, their predisposition for getting strong really easily, whatever it is from their genetics, right? Just because someone has great genetics for what they're doing and that really does

help a shitload for them to get to the top of their game. If they never had the interest to develop, you still have to develop. You still have to do all the work. No one has an easy ride just because they're genetically gifted. Yeah, because you're going to be competing with a bunch of other genetic freaks too. This is what you could be. And none of us know this, right? We're growing up. It's like, well, what are you interested in? Well, coloring, but maybe this kid who's really good at coloring

actually could be the next, you know, Olympic long jump champion or something, but because there's no interest in that. So there was no time put into training for it to developing the muscles that he can have genetically, but no time or time under tension or effort was put in to develop those, to allow those genetics to really come, eh, I don't know. He got that good at baseball and he was like, yeah, I want to try golf. So starts playing golf, quickly becomes within a couple of years. By the time he's 17 or 18, he's a scratch golfer. He's setting course records. He's starting to play on at 18, 19, these mini tours against, I guess a few of his buddies eventually made it to the PGA tour who he was just as good as at that time. they were neck and neck. Sometimes they would beat him. Sometimes he would beat them. And then he just didn't like the pressure of competition. It was now turning into a job and it was no longer something he just did for fun as a kid. And he liked to play video games and just kind of hang out and have a good time. And so he never pursued it. It's just interesting. I played golf with him a couple of times and he was so good. It's many people would think, oh, I would kill to be as good

as he is at this sport. And I would take it all the way. Yeah, maybe not. You know, you've experienced this a lot more than I have, but when it is quote unquote for blood, it's a bit different than just something, again, you did for fun with your friends and you found out that for whatever reason, you're just really good at this. You know what I mean? Yeah. And just the day and age that we're into, I think there's a whole nother level of just the whole aspect of social media. And it's a whole nother added stress. I really don't understand why so many people use it just personally. If it wasn't relevant to my work and if I didn't feel like I could use it in a way that is positive, where I just really use it to share educational stuff and try to be inspirational. I don't have things to show off because I'm just

not that kind of person. That's just not my personality. It's more just like, hey, look, I write these things. I'm already doing this work, so I'll repurpose it onto social media. And for people who appreciate that kind of thing, they're going to want to follow me for people who are just wanting to vicariously try to experience living a certain way or just looking to, I don't even know what the allure is, honestly. No, no. The thing about what you just said is so funny because I just had this conversation with my business partner for my training program yesterday. We were filming, we're launching a new challenge. And we were doing the launch video, announcing it. And we have a mutual friend who is a pretty popular fitness influencer. Well, I told my partner, I was like, hey, I legitimately cannot. I'm like, I've stopped

watching certain people's Instagrams or stories or just social media in general because I'm so over. And I thought about, I was like, how people that vlog, right? YouTube. How do so many people really enjoy watching someone's life that is so overly glamorous? And sometimes it's just made to be perceived. Of course, it's fake. It's scripted. It's reality TV. If it's done well, if it's unscripted, it's completely boring. I mean, come on. Even talking about like, this was specifically talking about like travel, right? I just cringe at that word. It's just, you know, hashtag wanderlust. It's so basic and it's so cringe. You go and you look at the rocks, you eat the food. I understand. I've done traveling.

My wife's from Germany. I've done it. It is not a transformative experience, or if it is, maybe you should try reading a couple of books first. It's amusing for like five to seven days and that's it. But I'm like watching these videos and I told him, I was like, all right, so I want to make a video. I was like, I want to do a video. And we were filming. So I had, we had our video guy there. I was like, Alex, listen up. Cause you're the one that has to make this come to fruition. Okay. I want to do a video. I want it to be so cinematic and like sexy and the best lighting and like all these slow motion shots and just epic cinematography. Okay. But I want it to be a me doing regular ass shit. I want to be

taking the trash cans out. I want to be pulling weeds. Going to the grocery store. Picking up dog shit. Going to the grocery store. Like maybe to make it kind of, you know, you get some of those shots like regular people doing you know like the majority of people what do we do maybe i'm playing beer pong or cornhole with friends because like that is exciting that'd be fun that'd be a fun part of the video anyone can do it it's showcasing like a real life i'm like i want to do a video that's exactly like all these travel videos that these influencers and like youtubers do that all I do when I see them is think like, fuck you. That's what I think. I'm not watching this shit.

I've made this joke many times, like who actually watches vlogs? We're really talking about the dregs here. I mean, who takes their time to watch these long, again, 100% scripted, if they're doing it right, quote unquote, maybe it's similar to watching reality TV, I guess. I mean, yeah, I guess. But it's like even quote unquote realer because it's some random internet person. So I have a YouTube channel and I have vlogs. I vlog, I do videos, started doing it for fun years ago. I never wanted it to be a job. I would travel. I vlog. I do videos. Started doing it for fun years ago. I never wanted it to be a job. I would travel.

I would travel and take my GoPro and I would film. It was more along the lines of like, hey, here's where I'm going. And now if you guys are interested in like seeing what I'm doing or who I'm with or where I'm at, you can watch this video. And now I want you to go to my YouTube channel and just like watch a couple of them. Yeah, now I'm intrigued

because we're talking all this shit about vlogging. You're like, well, actually I've been vlogging for like two years. But like I do talk shit about it. Where you're almost like, I don't know exactly why I'm doing this, but I'm already doing these things. So I might as well just document it and put it online.

Yeah, and you know what it is? Here's what I think about it. People that really, they love to follow you. They love whether you're an educator or whatever. They just, they love to listen to you. I have been told this,

like I think a lot of the way that I've done social media and I've gotten this feedback years ago and like YouTube, it's like this one way friendship. I can't remember exactly what that's actually called, but people that are watching and everyone that, when I meet them in person at events or whatever, it's like, they're like, you're, they tell me you are the exact same person that I thought you would be. And I'm like, that is the best compliment ever. Yeah. They do get to feel like they get to

know you and there's, and they feel like they just, they know me and every, a lot of people will be like, is it weird? Is it weird that I, I know all this? And I was like, no, I'm like, it makes my job way easier. Yeah. That's cool. Actually. I understand that from that perspective. But I would say like the majority of, I don't watch vlogs. Like people, I don't keep up on YouTube. I don't know who the, you know, the big influencers are. I understand it's a pretty damn good or can be source of income for a lot of people. Not for me. Yeah. To make any real money from it, you probably need to be racking up, who knows, tens of millions of views a month, a week. I don't know. And to get there, it's just overly...

I mean, you have to be into it. That's for sure. Oh, yeah. So I enjoy vlog stuff. Not all of it. We've started doing, and we're going to start doing a lot more. It's been a little bit difficult because I'm splitting my time here in California, but instructional stuff. So a lot of people really want me to coach and instruct. So now I'm breaking down movements or showing different little flow sessions, rehab or prehab, accessory work. But sometimes when we're filming and I'm just with friends or family and we're just hanging out or doing paint night or it's fun, not only for me in the way that we do it, it's fun for a lot of friends. It's almost like a home video. So a lot of people that are in it, that's one thing too. It's never just me. There's a lot of characters in my life.

And I think that that's also something that people love about watching my channel is they really get to know and love a lot of my friends. It's really funny because then when I'm with my friends somewhere and people know them, it always catches them off guard. You're e-famous too. Yeah. But like, yeah, I mean, social media, I absolutely hate it. I really do. I think we would be better off if it were banned, honestly, as a society. I feel like social media is an invisible race that you never can win, you know? And the rules are always changing. And you're always like last to find out what the new rule is. And it's like a race to contort yourself in the weirdest pretzel position possible. And people are finding new ones. Yeah, it's a pain. The way that I like to do what I think about social media. Well, I just want to say this. I really do hate doing it. I know for one, a sponsor will want to work with you. They're like, well, can you send me all of your views for your story? And I'm like, ooh, I mean, sometimes they're really good and sometimes they're not.

And the reason they're not is because I don't regularly story because it really does depend on who I'm around and what I'm doing. You know, if I want to be on my phone and I got to show this to people, you know, like this is funny shit. I got to show this or like we're being really goofy. Me and Gina, we got to, yeah, let's go on our story and talk to people. But so many times, more often than not, I don't want to be on my phone. I'm one, I'm so hyper aware of like the people that are around me. I never want to be a person that when I'm

together, when I'm with my family or together with my friends, like I'm always on my phone. I'm always Instagramming. I'm always doing, I'm always on my phone. I'm always Instagramming. I'm always doing this. I always have to get this shot. I always have to take this picture. I always have to do this. It's like, now I'm not living. Yeah, I'm the same way. Exactly the same. Because of that, if I wasn't like that, maybe I would be doing way better in terms of what social media can bring you financially or opportunities, but I'm not. I mean, to be fair though, I think you have a couple million followers on Instagram, so you

must be doing something right. I got 1.5. And here's the thing. I really value every single one of them because how do people get a bunch of followers, right? They go viral or someone with a lot of followers posts them or they win a competition. So like in like the CrossFit games, like it was, you go to the games and you win, you're almost like, you're like gift. I always said like, you're gifted followers. Here you go. What are you going to do with them? You know? So I always was very protective. Or acting, right? Which you've had success with. So that, you know, i always was very protective or acting right which you've had success with so that you know a lot of people yeah but i would even say i feel pretty confident in saying like majority of my followers i mean a very very small percentage i had a very small increase

from doing the movie you know because in acting you've got to you got to be yeah sure think about how many people are actors who are regularly working that we don't really know. You know? I organically grew my following over a period of time. And I look at like, well, how do I reach more people? How do I broaden my audience? Like, how do I get cooler? You know?

And it's like, well, I don't have an answer. Because all I can do is, you know, I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing. And trying to be cool is so lame anyway. Oh, yeah. I prefer to be more funny. That's what me and Gina say to ourselves when we're like, when we kind of have a dark sense of humor, but when we're feeling kind of shitty about ourselves, like whether it's like, oh man, my pants are too tight. Oh, well, I mean, I guess it's because I haven't really been on my training schedule or, oh, my hair looks so crappy today. Or, you know, just things aren't quite, you're not feeling yourself.

We're always saying, hey, better be more funny. You know, and for her, I'm 31. I think there's therapeutic value to that. Really, actually. I mean, humor, not being serious. Yeah. I mean, it works for us. We say it all the time and we laugh and it's like, hey, this, we always say it's like, hey, this is what I look like. This is me. Better be more funny. And it works for us, but it's like for her, she just turned 51, my best friend. And so with her, same thing, but it's going for aging. We talk about different changes that happen and that

I've either started to experience or I will experience that Gina's already experienced. And it's the reality of just aging. And a lot of those realities could have you thinking like feeling really bad about yourself. And so we have a lot of comic relief. It makes you feel better. It's not taking things too seriously and allowing yourself to just be who you are. And that doesn't mean that you aren't entitled to look different or grow your hair out or lose 15 pounds or get stronger. It's like, no, that's awesome. It's work. You get to like, you have a goal. You're going to work towards that. But know that who you are right now on the inside, like who you are, not just what you look like is great. And you working towards something that you want really bad and you're going to be dedicated, you're going to put in work. That's amazing. And that's just going to make you, you know, make you feel even better.

And it's nice to have things like that to go to, like you're saying, when you're having a bad day. If your entire identity and sense of self-worth is wrapped up or if most of it is wrapped up in your body, that's a problem because bodies get old, like you were saying, and they become less beautiful. And that's just reality. And we see many people who try to negate that reality with surgery and things that it can get out of hand. Of course, we can do a lot of things to mitigate the effects of aging and still be in good shape and look good and look healthy and look fit. But when I'm 50, am I going to be as physically attractive? It doesn't matter how fit I am at 50. Am I going to be as physically attractive as when

I was 25? Obviously, different standards are applied to men and women here, but the answer is no. If we're going to get specific, my skin at 50 is going to look worse than it did at 25. And my hair is going to, I'm going to have less of a hairline and I'm going to have gray hair probably by then. And that's not necessarily as attractive as 25. So something I've thought about too, is I've consciously tried to work on things other than just my body because, and I think that's unhealthy even when you're young. Speaking of social media, right? You see the narcissism is, I didn't realize that there are so many people who are so narcissistic until I started spending time on social media, especially in the fitness scene. Holy shit.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have a lot of nieces and nephews and so watching like them grow up and just in this growing up with social media and with phones and with people going viral and being famous. Now you have kids. It's like they- That's what they aspire to. Yeah. Being famous. I saw a survey a couple of years ago with 16-year-olds, a couple thousand, what do you want to do or be when you grow up? And the number one thing was be famous. That's disturbing. That's so bad.

Let's hope that changes as they get older. You know, it's like kids in school don't really care to go to college or work that hard in school because they just want to go viral. What's your life plan? Go viral. I'm just trying to go viral, man. That's it. It's basically go viral, step two, question mark, step three, profit. That's it. Yeah. From when I very first started competing, a lot of questions I would get are, how do you get sponsors? And the first thing I would tell

them is, well, I would be like, well, I can tell you my experience. I don't know. It's different for different people. But I can tell you that I never trained or did anything with me wanting that as the outcome. That was a byproduct of hard work and focus on something that wasn't... Money motivation just sucks. Yeah. And that's people they do. It's like, how do you get sponsored? How do you get it? And it's like, well... Be so good that you can't be ignored. That. I mean, period. And like, that's, you know, people, they do it. How do you get sponsored? How do you get it? And it's like, well. Be so good that you can't be ignored. That's how you do it. Yes.

You know, I would also kind of explain this. I'm like, okay. I'm like the NFL. How many players playing on the bench, whatever, every team, how many are there? Like a lot. Like so many. How many of them do we know? a lot. So many. How many of them do we know? Unless you are obsessed with that team and you know all those players and their names and what they do, where they came from, the majority of

people, how many of them do we actually know and care about? Not very many. And that's because certain people, I would explain this because in CrossFit, I'm like, well, you have how many athletes make up the whole field of play? A lot. How many are sponsored? Not all of them. How many of them are doing well enough with sponsorships that they don't have to work another job? Very small percentage. have opportunity outside of what they can do as a competitor for a career compared to how many people compete. Very, very small percentage. It's like a shitty reality because you might really want sponsorship. You might really want to be like, I want to be famous. I want to have more followers on Instagram. I want to have this. I want to have that. And it's like, well, it's kind of out of your control. And the best thing you can do to work towards that is continue to work on... If it's in competition for sport, get better, train harder. I always thought this. You'll either be sponsored because you're the best, or you're an up-and-comer, or you are just

killing it. And it really is dependent on your performance. Or you'll be sponsored because you are extremely marketable. And sometimes you have people that give you both. And it's just a tough reality because you might really want it really bad, but no one's coming your way. No one's coming your way. For those people, I don't know what to tell you. I know for myself, when I first had opportunities to work with companies, I made sure, especially from the very beginning, I made sure I was like, I will never sign a contract or work with a company. I don't care how good the money is. If it's ever dependent on my performance, absolutely not. Not doing it. I wouldn't do it. The stress of that was too much. Now that made what I did for fun or because it was my extracurricular, it made it a job. And as soon as in terms of CrossFit, the second it starts to feel stressful and it's a job and

you're your friend who is a golfer and it's not fun anymore. And you're being put on a pedestal or it's a means to an end or it's a means to pay your bills and that's the only thing you have. And then on top of that, they're saying, if you're not performing, you're not super marketable. So if you're not performing really well, then there's no point in us paying you. It's just work towards something because you really, really want that thing. Whether it's a sport, it's CrossFit, it's... I don't know. There's probably a lot of different things you'll be noticed. If you're only doing the work because you want that outcome, like the outcome of money or the outcome of attention, well, then what I would say is you might get that. That might be an outcome that you have,

but there's no longevity in it. Yeah. It's going to be very hard to sustain the level of work it takes if that's your longevity in it. Yeah, it's gonna be very hard to sustain the level of work it takes, if that's your only motivator. Well, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. Yeah, this was a lot of fun. I really appreciate it. Why don't we just wrap up quickly with where people can find you and your work. You had mentioned that you have a new challenge coming.

It sounds like you probably have other stuff and you have businesses. So I'm sure there are some things that maybe are new and exciting or just that people may wanna know about. Yeah. So you can find me on Instagram at Brooke Entz. YouTube. You can watch vlogs. Under my name as well. B-R-O-O-K-E-E-N-C-E. I don't really do Twitter. I don't really do Facebook. Entzwear.com is my clothing company that I have been working on. And we've got a lot of great stuff in the works

and we're getting ready to launch some men's stuff. So that's really exciting. Also nakedtraining.app. You can also download the Naked Training app on Google Play or on Apple. We are about to launch the newest updated version of our app and it is incredible.

And we're going to be launching a challenge and we do transformation challenges. And this one, it's an eight-week transformation challenge. We are doing it to celebrate the launch of our new app that also has our new daily programming in addition to our program. So the Naked Training Program, it's a killer program, man. You want to get strong. You want to be fit. It is a really, really good program, but it is not for anyone who doesn't want to work that hard because it takes... It's not for people who feel the need to wear two masks when they're outside by themselves. No, no, it's not.

But if you want to get strong, it's for a few. We have at home programs at home dumbbell at home body weight our peaches program it's well-rounded but it's really focuses on our our legs and our booty yeah check it out that's probably you know what i'm the most excited about oh you can listen to my podcast if you want it might it's not for everybody but enough people listen to it that they, it's between the reps and it's hosted by me and my best friend, Gina Chancharulo. We do have male listeners, but a lot of female listeners and it's very candid.

It's very shameless. And we kind of just talk about, you know, we have guests on and talk about very specific topics, but we also just talk about life and what we're going through or questions that come up. And we started the podcast. Well, I had been asked if I would do one because a company, they were wanting to get more female voices on podcasts. And at the time, I was like, ooh, I don't know. I had friends that did podcasts. I know the effort that goes into it.

I know they have a lot of focus and time to put it into it. And I'm like, I don't have that. I don't want to say yes, but I don't have the time to... I was really stressed about it. And for me, basically, I went at it from the idea and angle of here's another format or another... It's more time that people that really want to get to know me or hear my thoughts or listen to me or whatever, connect with me. It's another way they can do that. We said we would do it for one year. We had a contract for one year. We'd do it for a year. And if we weren't good at it, we wouldn't be doing it anymore. If people didn't really listen to it, it's all right. We wouldn't do it anymore. But we're still doing it. We've been doing it for about a year and a

half. We are surprised every time we record. We're like, dude, we're still doing it. We've been doing it for about a year and a half. We are surprised every time we record, we're like, dude, we're still doing this. People still want to listen to us. Or you wonder, is this going to be it? Are they finally going to get sick of it? And then eventually you're like, I guess not. Oh, no. In fact, I'm going to, we had a listener email in. Gina was reading me the email and it's basically, she kind of explained just some of her personal life and she's getting married. And she asked if I would be a bridesmaid and bring Gina as my date. And I'm sitting on the couch and Gina's reading it to me. And I think for a minute and I was like, yeah, let's go. And Gina's like,

seriously? Really? And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, if I can be her Justin Bieber moment, if I can be her Disney moment, I'm like, I want to do that. The way we interact and communicate and the emails we get, that's why we still do it. Is it for me? Do we love really finding time to make sure we get our episodes done and recording ads and things like that? No. But every time we read our emails and the feedback we get from so many people, men and women, and really in a way, kind of a role that we're playing in their life, a very positive thing. That is what I find so much value in. At the end of the day, that's all I really want to do is help people realize their potential, help them feel better, be healthier, and truly just be happier. Yeah. Make a difference, right?

Yeah. Make a difference for a lot of people. So that's what I strive for. Yeah. You're speaking my words. I feel the exact same way. I mean, especially with monologue podcasts, half of them, I mean, really none of that. I don't enjoy it per se. I mean, I already learned about something, wrote about it. Now I'm just going to talk about it and go, yeah, it's inherently kind of boring, but I know that a lot of people find it helpful. And so that's enough for me to sit down and just talk into my computer screen every other day about something I already read about and wrote about. And it'd be more fun, quote unquote, to spend that time learning something new, for example, but. It's valuable.

Exactly. Exactly. Well, again, thanks again for taking the time to do this. This was a lot of fun. Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for having me. All right. Well, that's it for this episode. I hope you enjoyed it and found it interesting and helpful. And if you did, and you don't mind doing me a favor, please do leave a quick review on iTunes or wherever you're listening to me from in whichever app you're listening to me in because that not only convinces people

that they should check out the show, it also increases search visibility and thus it helps more people find their way to me and learn how to get fitter, leaner, stronger, healthier, and happier as well. And of course, if you want to be notified when the next episode goes live, then simply subscribe to the podcast and you won't miss out on any new stuff. And if you didn't like something about the show, please do shoot me an email at mike at muscleforlife.com, just muscle, F-O-R, life.com,

and share your thoughts on how I can do this better. I read everything myself and I'm always looking for constructive feedback, even if it is criticism, I'm open to it. And of course you can email me if you have positive feedback as well, or if you have questions really relating to anything that you think I could help you with, definitely send me an email. positive feedback as well. Or if you have questions really relating to anything that

you think I could help you with, definitely send me an email. That is the best way to get ahold of me, mikeatmusclefullife.com. And that's it. Thanks again for listening to this episode. And I hope to hear from you soon.