Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Carter Good on How to Finally Stop Binge Eating

Episode Date: February 22, 2019

My years in the fitness racket have taught me many things about people, and one of them is that binge eating is far more common than I previously realized. In many cases, it’s prompted by extreme forms calorie restriction like water fasting, detox diets, and the like, and in others, it’s the result of bad eating habits developed on the way to becoming overweight. Binge eating isn’t just a problem for overweight people, though. There are many fit people out there, usually ones trying to maintain very low levels of body fat for one reason or another (social media, usually), who binge and purge rather regularly. Regardless of how fit or fat someone is, however, bingeing is a problem, and even when it’s done more “strategically” by drastically undereating for a period before or after a binge to keep body fat levels generally in an acceptable range. That approach can work for maintaining a nice looking body composition, of course, but it’s unsustainable and unhealthy, both physically and psychologically. It takes its toll, which often includes eating and body disorders. That’s why I invited Carter Good to come on the show. Carter lost 140 pounds—partly with the help of my Bigger Leaner Stronger program—and now has a large following built mostly through sharing simple, effective, science-based weight loss strategies and runs a successful fat loss coaching service. One of the biggest obstacles Carter ran into in his journey from 305 to 165 pounds was binge eating, and as you’d expect, many of his clients come to him struggling with it as well. In this interview, he’s going to share his most helpful observations, recommendations, and insights on how to beat binge eating once and for all. In this episode, you’ll learn . . . - What binge eating actually is (how it differs from simply overeating) - How much binge eating actually slows fat loss - The most common factors that lead to binge eating - Effective mental strategies for preventing binge eating - What to do after a binge (because we all fall off the wagon now and then) - And more 8:07 - How do you define binge eating? 12:48 - What are common factors that cause binge eating? 14:07 - How do you help people work through binge eating? 24:45 - How do you prevent binge eating? 36:13 - How do you help people work through the guilt of binge eating? 40:58 - Are there any outlets to prevent emotional eating? 56:24 - Where can people find you and your work? Want to get my best advice on how to gain muscle and strength and lose fat faster? Sign up for my free newsletter! Click here: https://www.muscleforlife.com/signup/

The food isn't the problem. It's how you're using the food in response to something happening usually, which is the problem. So almost getting to the deeper cause of that, which is obviously not just an easy task for everyone because sometimes it requires facing bigger demons. But I think the more honest you can learn to be with yourself of why you're overeating, the easier it is to not use food in that way in the future. to not use food in that way in the future. Hey, Mike Matthews here from Muscle for Life and Legion Athletics, and welcome to a brand new episode of my podcast. Now, if I sound a little bit funny, it's because I have been sick for a few days. I had a cold starting, I guess it started four days ago and I felt okay for the first two days. Wasn't too concerned about it. Just skipped the gym and then it hit me for

one day hard, but I'm back and actually had a strangely good workout this morning. I thought it was going to be shit because it usually is after I'm sick, but this time I felt strong. I gained a rep on two exercises, so I'll take it. Must have needed the rest. Anyway, let's get to today's episode, which is all about binge eating. Now, my years in the fitness racket have taught me many things about people, and one of them is that binge eating is far more common than I previously realized. In many cases, it's prompted by extreme forms of calorie restriction like water fasting, detoxing, and the like. And in others, it is the result of bad eating habits developed on the way to becoming overweight. Binge eating is not just a problem for

overweight people though. There are many fit people out there, usually ones who are trying to maintain very low levels of body fat for one reason or another, social media usually, who binge and purge rather regularly. Regardless though of how fit or fat someone is, binging is a problem and even when it is done more strategically by drastically under eating for a period before or after a binge to keep body fat levels generally in an acceptable range. That approach can work well enough for maintaining a nice looking body composition, of course, but it is unsustainable and unhealthy, both physically and psychologically. It takes its toll, which often includes eating and body disorders. And all that is why I invited Carter Good to come on the show. Now, Carter has lost 140 pounds and my Bigger Leaner Stronger program played a role in that, which is pretty cool.

That's how I first met Carter. He reached out to me and shared his success story. And now Carter has a very large following of his own that he built mostly through sharing simple, effective science-based weight loss strategies. And he also now runs a successful fat loss coaching service. Now, one of the biggest obstacles that Carter ran into in his personal journey from just over 300 pounds to about 165 pounds was binge eating. And as you would expect, many of his clients come to him struggling with it as well. In this interview, Carter shares some of his most helpful observations, recommendations, and insights on how to beat binge eating once and for all. So in this episode, you are going to learn things like what binge eating actually is and how it differs from just overeating, how much binge eating actually slows fat loss,

the most common factors that lead to binge eating, effective mental strategies for preventing it, what to do after a binge, because we all fall off the wagon now and then in our own ways. And for some people, that means a binge. And that's okay. There are things you can do about that and more. This is where I would normally plug a sponsor to pay the bills, but I'm not big on promoting stuff that I don't personally use and believe in. So instead, I'm just going to quickly tell you about something of mine. Specifically, my 100% natural fat loss supplement Phoenix. It has sold over a hundred thousand bottles in the last several years, and it helps you lose fat faster in three ways.

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shameless plugging for now at least. Let's get to the show. Carter, welcome to my little podcast. Thanks for taking the time. Absolutely, man. Thanks for having me on. So today's topic is binge eating, which is something I wrote about some time ago. It's probably a couple of years ago. And that article, I remember it doing well, better than I anticipated. I thought it was interesting to research and write. I just didn't know, one, if I was going to be able to rank for it because you're going up against a lot of.gov and EDU and Healthline and massive websites. And two, I just didn't know how much of a thing it was with the people in my orbit and in the fitness space in general. And I found out that it is actually a thing, not just, of course, we know with the general population, but in the fitness, people that are into fitness,

know with the general population, but in the fitness, people that are into fitness, which seems a bit counterintuitive to, I guess, others who are on the outside looking in thinking like, oh, aren't you people all about like being super healthy and some binge eating is a problem in that community? How does that make any sense? But I haven't spoken about this really at all. So this is the first time I think that this topic is going to have been discussed on the podcast. So it should be good. Oh, yeah. And I think it's, you know, like you said, it's funny how like, you know, whatever term you use, cause obviously, and I'm sure we'll make the distinction between like, you know, binge eating that is medically classified as like a binge eating. And then people who are just like overeating or struggling with it. Right. It's kind of like a big blanket

term that people use, but no, for sure. And it's really interesting what you said right there at the end about the fitness community or people who are into fitness, because it seems to be something that is like very popular. And even like with the whole thing around, you know, cheap meals and just how like they're praised in some ways, kind of, it's almost like a hidden form or like a cloak or something over actually just like having this obsession with like needing to like pound food every once in a while. Right. form or like a cloak or something over actually just like having this obsession with like needing to like pound food every once in a while right yeah yeah i think we should probably just start with how are we defining binging because in the fitness community it's probable that how

your average fitness person would define a binge isn't, doesn't exactly line up with how a doctor would define it. Yeah, very much so. I would even say, even in just like, you know, saying fitness community, but even just like a general population, like somebody who's like first getting into, you know, weight loss and stuff. Like, I think there, there's definitely a big separation between someone who has like a binge eating disorder, like an actual eating disorder, right? Like that would go along. What does that, what does that look like? So I would say like probably the major difference, and I'll say like, I'm obviously not a doctor either, but you know, I think that the major difference is that usually whenever I think

people are talking about binge eating in terms of they're trying to like lose weight and stuff or whatever, it's usually involves something like going out to eat and then eating way over their calories and then maybe coming home or maybe like restricting the whole day and then coming home and it's kind of like letting loose. Whereas I would say like the medical definition of binge eating, just from what I perceive it as being is more so something where it is like this insatiable need to like consume ravenous amounts of calories. And we're talking like, not just like going over a couple thousand calories, like six, seven, 8,000 calories. And it's usually at that point followed by like, it's like a binging and purging cycle. Um, and it's usually much more focused on

being hidden and being something deeply rooted in some type of like reaction to something bad that's happened in life. Right. I see. I see. Yeah. I mean, I've, I've come across, I'm trying to think, cause I've, I've now emailed mostly email. I've also through social media, mostly communicate with people through email with, uh, I mean, my inbox is over a hundred thousand emails sent received and I've come across, I guess, where what seems to be semi-common and it seems to be more so with women than men, just based on my experience where you'll have people that are trying to lose weight. And it's usually when they're cutting, it seems, but sometimes not.

Sometimes it could just be, eh, that's mostly when they're trying to lose weight. And then it's where a little bit of overeating turns into like three days of egregious overeating. So we'll say that that's what we that's what we're gonna be talking about. Because at least we can address that. I think if we are going further than that into what might be considered true medical disorder, where it's constant and compulsive. And again, I've actually researched a bit about this and written a bit about it. I just don't think that I don't know how much we can do for that person in one conversation. But that's what are your thoughts? No, I think that's exactly right. Because you're usually in that situation, you're dealing with something that's very specific to that person, right? Like their

experiences in life. And I mean, that's why, you know, there are psychiatrists and stuff like that, who would deal with an issue like that. But no, back to what you were saying, like, it usually is, you know, binge eating, I normally just say overeating, right, or excessive eating, just because I think it's, you know, more realistic term to use, because it's just something that's I think it's probably also better psychologically, because binge eating sounds worse. And that matters if you're coming down on yourself, which a lot of people who have struggled to lose weight to who are struggling to lose weight, or even are just new getting into this newly, how they frame their their thoughts matters in terms of the

words that they use. So if somebody, for you listening, if you tell yourself, I ate too much last weekend, or I ate way too much last weekend, that has a different connotation than, oh, I binged. Yes. I would think, right? Because even that word carries just more weight and more negative weight than other ways that you could couch it. Oh, for sure. And that's actually, that's the first thing that if I would be working with somebody with this or somebody would come to me and say, oh, I binged last night. The first thing I would say is like, first off, you didn't binge last night. Like you went over your calories, whatever happened, like it wasn't a, you know, a full on binge loss of control. Like just because of that framing, it is so very important for that. Cause you know, as we go, you know, obviously through tips or

whatever and suggestions on how to stop it or limit it or whatever. A lot of it is based around mindset stuff. Like most of the struggles that come from dieting is not the actual diet itself. It's not the, you know, the things that you're doing or the foods that you're eating is more so like your mindset and not being able to stick to the plan, right? Obviously the plan that you're following is going to have a big impact on how easy it is to stick to or adhere to, but usually, you know, the problem is with adherence and that goes more to the mental side of things, which is what I think a lot of times overeating is really causing. Yeah, sure. It makes sense. What are some of the typical things, what are some of the typical factors that precipitate a binge that cause it?

Yeah, I would say probably the biggest three that I see with the people I work with typically tend to be either one in all or nothing type of mindset where, and this is, you know, the typical yo-yo dieter type of mindset where, you know, if they're not doing everything perfectly and they slip up a little bit, it's sort of like an F it, I'll just keep going because it's like on or off type of switch, right? Where guys will just keep on making it worse. That's usually the first thing that happens because it's in the moment. Yes. Psychologists call that the what the hell effect. Like, what the hell? I've already blown it. I might as well just go all out. Yeah, that's it. And then I would say another one is probably,

honestly, over-restriction. And that could be twofolded either in being over-restricting calories, right? Or over-restricting even food choices, or at least your perception on how you're restricting those foods. But that's what I would say are probably, I guess those are three, even though the last two are kind of coupled together, but probably like over-restriction of either how many calories you're eating or the types of foods that you're eating. And then the mindset of sort of the perfect perfectionist mindset that people are trying to achieve when they are losing weight.

And how do you generally help people who, cause those are, those are very common. I've, I've run across them a lot, again, just interacting with a lot of people and how do you help people work through them? Yeah. So I would say the first thing that I do, I'm actually, I'm big, I'm a big fan of like awareness of like realities of overeating. So like, you know, you can go into the science of like, you know, 3,500 calories is a pound of fat and stuff. Like I always like to remind people that they get so fixated on the one time that they go over their calories and they blow it out of proportion mentally and saying that like, you know, this is a horrible thing that happened. I always like to kind of bring it back to reality and say, okay, well, let's look at

this realistically. Let's say that they went over their calories by 2000 calories or whatever, right? Like, let's look at this realistically across the week. And then imagine if like tomorrow we got back on track, like how insignificant that would be really helping people focus on the idea of consistency over perfection in that way. I just noticed that if I can get somebody to do that once where they will have a moment where they will overeat or whatever it is, right. And, and go over the calories and then get right back on track. And they physically see that, you know, the scale comes back down, that their progress still, you know,

moves forward. It's like a huge win because they actually see that taking, that taking place instead of letting like the, the mental fear of like, oh my gosh, I blew it, that happening, um, take over. Cause if I can get somebody to do that once, usually it's something that even if in the future they overeat again on, on accident, like it's that thing where, okay, I've done this before. I know if I get back on track that I can be right back to where I was in a short amount of time. Yeah. Logically just deconstructing it makes sense. And what I've found, I've done the same thing many times. What I've found is that many people, they simply actually don't know that even that information that you just gave, they don't know approximately

how much energy is in a pound of fat. And they don't know that it's not even that every excess calorie is stored as fat either. That's not how it works. And especially if you're active and especially if you are consistently training your muscles and your body has other things to do with the excess calories that you eat, just simply understanding those things can diffuse a lot of the emotion that can be associated with it's it's the mystery right it's like okay they know they they overate and they just don't know now what's happening in their body did they just set themselves back a week it was at two weeks did they just lose a whole month's worth of progress to somebody who's more informed that concept might sound ridiculous but

it's not ridiculous if you just don't know and And I understand because I remember when I first learned about energy balance and macronutrient balance, and I was first, I actually, somebody, when I first, first, I would say was introduced to it, I didn't, I wasn't really even told much about how it works. There was a bodybuilder power lifter who I met in a local whole foods like store when I was living in Florida, like a natural grocery store or kind of fancy gourmet grocery store and got to know him. Nice guy. I was telling him he was prepping for a show at the time. And I asked him, how are you getting so lean? And, and you just, and you said, Oh, you know, you just here, what do you, what do you weigh here? Eat this much protein and carbs and fats every day.

And you'll see. And he might've explained a little bit more, but I was like, okay, whatever. I'll try it. And that was actually the first time it took a bit, obviously. Um, but the first time I got really lean. So he would tell me, yeah, go out and have one meal a week. Um, you know, just go out and have a nice dinner, eat whatever you want, really try not to go crazy, but don't really worry about it. And so I remember at that time, I went and got sushi. I was texting him after like, this is what I ate. Does that make sense for my quote unquote cheat meal or free meal or normal, whatever you want? Or is that a problem that I had, you know, a few spicy tuna rolls and some emoji. And he would just laugh. He'd be like,

dude, it doesn't matter. You know, in time when I, when I started, when I saw it work, that's what really got my attention. I was like, okay, I doesn't matter. You know, in time, when I saw it work, that's what really got my attention. I was like, okay, I need to actually educate myself then. Why is this working? What's going on? Now, fast forward, and I obviously know a lot more. And so, the idea though that, oh, I went to a restaurant and ate what really felt like a lot of food, even though in my case, that sushi example didn't really feel like that

much food. But we've all done that. You go to a restaurant, you're like're like damn i ate a lot of food and if you don't know anything in terms of the mechanics of what's going on uh it is i can understand feeling anxiety about who knows you know because of also a lot of the misinformation out there let's say you eat a bunch of you went to like a an italian place you ate a bunch of, and then you ate a bunch of tiramisu. So it's like all carbs, all sugar, and you throw some fat in there as well. And all you hear is that all of that equals fat.

You're just going to get fatter. Every gram of carb, every gram of sugar. And so you walk away from that going, fuck, I've been doing this calorie restriction thing and it's not too bad, but it's kind of annoying. It's not how I like to eat. I've been doing this for six weeks now and I go and have one dinner and now I restart, even though that's not possible, I can understand that. No, for sure.

And it goes back to the whole thing. People, I always like say this, like people overestimate what's possible from like one event of doing things or doing something, whether it's good or bad. But that way I say this, people overestimate what's, or I guess like no one ever got fat from eating, you know, one pizza slice and no one ever got skinny from eating one salad. They overestimate

that one event, but they underestimate the power of, you know, consistently doing something over time. And the reason why people struggle with weight in the first place is because they're consistently eating too much, maybe not on one day or two days a week, but over time they're consistently obviously eating more than their body needs. The same thing with like weight loss, right? So that, that's where I really think that disconnect is with that is people just overestimate the damage that one meal can do. And then they let that one meal turn into a whole week or, you know, two whole weeks of sort of going on and off and on and off where then it can actually potentially become something where they are, you know, doing it so frequently that it can start to reverse their progress or, you know,

significantly slow them down. Yeah. And just to be clear, you can do a bit, a little bit of damage in one meal. It's, it's probably hard. You know, I wrote, well, no, I didn't have an editor. His name's Army. He's like my editor-in-chief. He writes with me. We do a lot of the content planning together. So that article is written by him, published under his name, but it's at Legion. And it's something along the lines of like, how much fat can you really gain when you

overeat? And there's no pat answer that we can find in the scientific literature, but there is definitely a limit to the amount of fat that your body can synthesize and create in a day. And maybe it's around a pound or a pound and a half if you were just to be eating all day. And in some people, it's going to be less depending on genetics and activity level and stuff. But in one meal, I've experienced this. So, a couple of Thanksgivings ago, what I would do every year is I would eat until I stopped because it just got annoying, but I would eat until I was in pain. Like until my stomach, I had to just lie down just for fun, really.

Until I was like, this hurts too much. This is not fun anymore. I'm going to stop. I need to stop well before this point. But even then doing that, I would notice basically no difference because there's a point where stop, you know, well before this point. But even then, doing that, I would notice basically no difference because there's a point where, and you know this, I'm just saying to people listening that your body stops absorbing nutrients and just shits them out. You're giving your body so many calories and so many macronutrients, so many nutrients that it can't

even absorb them anymore. And they just pass right through you as if they were fiber unabsorbed. So yes, I ate, let's say 8,000 calories in one meal. Legitimately. I remember the last time I did it, I ate seven, seven plates of food. Uh, was that all just Thanksgiving food or are you throwing some dessert in there too? Cause I was about to say that would be, I'd be like palate fatigue even on Thanksgiving food if it wasn't like dessert stuff. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was dessert stuff too, but it was seven plates. And you know, my body probably was able to process like half of that and the rest just came right through. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, to put a number on it, it, I think it's reasonable to say that if you really went to town and maybe if you threw some alcohol in, you could gain a pound, maybe give or take some

in a day of, of excessive overeating. Yeah, no, for sure. Right. And that's the thing. It's like, that's a pound of fat. Actually, I have to clarify that because you may weigh a lot more the next day because of all the sodium and the water and the carbs, which are going to fill you up with glycogen. Right.

So you might come in six pounds heavier the next day, but that's not six pounds of fat. Exactly. And that's what you just said. Like, that's another thing that usually when somebody is like stressed about the fact that they overate, it's usually because the next day they weigh themselves and they're up four to five pounds. And in their mind, they're thinking, holy crap, I just undid, you know, weeks and weeks of, of being there, which kind of goes back to why I really, once I can get somebody to like, get rid of that mindset for a second and just like get back on track and they see that their water will drop, like their water weight drops like four to five pounds after, you know, being on track for like a week, it's like that clicking moment in their head. But you know,

obviously it's very emotional in that moment because like you've been on point and you've been perfect. And then that happens and it's stressful because you're like, well, crap, why the heck did I do that? And then you turn to the gill and then you start that cycle over and over again, if you're not going into it with the right knowledge and mindset for sure. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Hey, if you like what I am doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, and if you want to help me help more people get into the best shape of their lives, please do consider supporting my sports nutrition company, Legion Athletics, which produces 100% natural evidence-based health and fitness supplements,

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more of it, please do consider supporting me so I can keep doing what I love, like producing So let's get into some strategies and some tips for preventing excessive overeating, binging, whatever you want to call it. Because ideally, when we are cutting, at least, we wouldn't really overeat at all, really. I mean, that's the perfect ideal to strive for maybe we never get there and that's fine i think that perfectionism in that sense is okay if you realize that you're never going to get there and and that that's a different discussion but i think that's a good and for me at least it's a uh just a viewpoint i have in my work for example um there's a perfect ideal that i strive for in terms of my writing ability. I don't think I'll ever get there in my lifetime, but the fact that I know that makes it

okay. And I'm still striving toward, I think it's even a Buddhist concept actually. Anyways, I'm striving toward something that I know I will never achieve, but I'm okay with that. that I know I will never achieve, but I'm okay with that. And I still feel motivated to try to get as close to it as possible. So if we kind of take the ideal, the perfect ideal of a cut is never overeating once. And the point is not, that's not a pass fail test. That's just going, okay, that would be perfection. How do we get as close to that as possible? Outside of planned diet breaks or quote unquote cheat meals, you know what I mean? Like you're going to have that, sure. Any diet regimen that is going to work halfway decently for the average person needs to have some of that worked in. But assuming outside of whatever it is that you've

planned. Yes, exactly. Right. And I think that the degree to which you are dieting makes sense too, because a lot of the people I work with who tend to be more general population, right? Like people who aren't trying to, you know, a lot of times I work with somebody who are very new to even weightlifting or even understanding calories and macronutrients and stuff like that. Like someone in that situation who has a lot of fat to lose the necessity necessarily of like having constant refeeds may not be as high in terms of practically getting results. Because usually in that situation, the refeed or whatever it is, is more based around their lifestyle. It's actually why I'm working with somebody. I would never say, let's have a cheat meal.

I don't even like to use the word refeed meal, really them mostly just from like a mental standpoint. I like to just call it like lifestyle meals because every once in a while you're going to be going out to eat and you're going to want to just have a meal with your family or your friends and not have to worry about it as much. And I like for people to more so use them in those situations because most people who are just like living normal lives, you know, every day, I mean, even you and I are going to have most of the time we're going to have like one to two meals when we're going out during the week or one, two meals where we do go out and eat a meal. And so saving it for that, as opposed to like having a set day, every Sunday I have my cheat meal. So it works well for some people, for some people, I think it can like stress them out so much that they just don't have any type of control or anything for it. And so the first

thing that I always do with people is know that when they are doing this, it's not necessarily, they don't have to do it in most situations. But if you do have these like moments when you are going out to eat, know that you can use this as a way to relieve stress or to not have to worry as much about being perfect in that moment. If it's, you know, I kind of set parameters around it. Like once every, you know, like seven to 14 days, you can have a meal where it's our day where you go over your calories by a certain amount, right? Whatever the situation is, just like that framing, I think is really the first step to, I think, really having a healthier relationship with moments when you do kind of go off your diet plan. I agree. I agree. And so what about, let's talk about some of the things that you can do though to prevent it

from like, for example, something that I know helps people is not having, let's say they're going to be dieting for some period of time, not having the foods, whatever their quote unquote trigger foods are, the foods that like a guy that works with me, he loves chips. And when he's cutting, he just doesn't have chips in his house or in his, in his, you know, condo because he just knows himself. He knows that if they're around, he's probably going to eat them. And he's probably not just going to have a chip or two here and there. It's probably going to turn into the whole bag, even if it's over the course of an entire day. And sure, he knows that he can adjust to, to make up for that. But that means that his diet just gets whacked because chips,

it'd be like maybe a thousand calories in chips and maybe he's cutting on 2,000, 2,100 calories. That's pretty shitty. Especially if you ate that in an hour and now you have the rest of the day where you're just like, eat your calories out for the rest of the day so you don't starve. That's something I know that can help people or waiting if they feel the urge to eat, drinking some water and waiting 10 minutes or so, little things like that. Are there any specific tips that you found that help like that? Yeah. So kind of going into that one about like the out of sight, out of mind type of thing with foods, especially while you're trying to diet, just because hunger levels are going to be naturally a bit higher and the temptations obviously are going to keep

increasing, increasing over time. But with that, even I noticed that some people do really well with the, you know, out of sight, out of mind thing, like leaving those foods out. But I also think can be very helpful to, um, if you are following an approach where you're tracking your nutrition and you are taking a bit more of a flexible approach, obviously of not like eliminating like specific foods. So I guess is, is a tip in and of itself is to not eliminate food groups, which maybe we can get into. But just for that example, like having a food that is, will satisfy a craving, but isn't as, I guess, enjoyable, I guess, in a sense, as the food you struggle with. So for example, for me, I struggle when Oreos are

in the house, even to this day. Not that I just eat the whole box all the time, but if Oreos are in my living area, I'm going to eat them. It's just a matter of time. But for me, I also enjoy dark chocolate, but not enough to where I don't sit down and feel the need to eat two big dark chocolate bars in a row. It it's normally at that point, it's just like not necessarily something I want. Whereas I could sit down and eat like one to two sleeves of Oreos if I was just like really, you know, feeling it or whatever. But the dark chocolate though still kind of gives me that sweet satisfaction that sometimes I'm looking for in the evening or whatever. And so, so like with chips, even, you know, I've had people who will maybe have a issue with like Doritos or something,

and then we'll switch to, and it's funny, even it could, you know, it might be something like some people might say like kale chips or whatever, but I've even noticed like even making a switch to a different brand that might be like lighter, like pop chips, even, even though it's like still a chip or whatever, like it does, doesn't have the same type of like reward response. And, you know, it might take some experimenting or whatever, but just finding something that's comparable, like in terms of still satisfying your craving, but you don't like lose control around it. Like for whatever reason, I've noticed that that's worked really well because then you don't feel that over restriction, which can sometimes, you know, be enough motivation to be like, well, you know, shit, the Oreos aren't in the house,

but I'm going to go drive and I'm going to find them because I've wanted Oreos for the past four weeks and I've not had anything to satisfy that craving. So now I'm going to do it. Right. As opposed to if you did have something that kind of was still allowing you to enjoy that sweets at night, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. My, my buddy, the same guy, that's what he does. He does pop chips. So I guess chips and ice cream, he likes to have them, I think together, which sounds kind of gross to me, but, um, so he'll do pop chips and a light ice cream is like his treat you know one of like a halo topper enlightened or something like that and it so it gives him a

semblance of the experience but not it's not delicious enough the foods are not engineered enough to really drive him over the top whereas i mean take mean, take Doritos, who knows how many, it's at least tens of millions of dollars and possibly more has gone into over the years perfecting the Dorito. And I had a guy I interviewed on my podcast, the Michael Moss interviewed him, I don't know, maybe a year ago. He wrote a book called Sugar, Salt, Fat, I believe.

It's all about- Yeah, I think I listened to this podcast. That's where I first heard about that whole thing with like Doritos and like,itos. The bliss point, right? And how much work these big food companies, and they have so many millions of dollars to spend on just R&D. And so what is that R&D? It's how to make foods more palatable. They call it this, they want to reach the perfect bliss point, which is where you get the maximum reward. And this is really what we're talking about is a neurochemical response to the food that you eat to make you

want to continue eating, which is on the face of it sounds pretty shitty actually as a thing, pretty unethical. But I guess that's a different discussion. With something like pop chips though, they just don't have, for example, the fat. That's one of the critical components. If you reduce the fat, you're going to reduce the palatability. So it doesn't matter how many millions of dollars they may or may not spend. A pop chip will never reach unless they find some crazy chemicals or some voodoo. But with where food science is right now,

they just wouldn't be able to reach the deliciousness of a Dorito. No, for sure. And this is actually, I think also another big one. Cause like, I think earlier I talked about like how, like knowing, understanding like how one meal isn't going to necessarily like be catastrophic to your results. I think being aware of the fact that sometimes people feel like they're slaves to their cravings and feel like they're bad because they have cravings. This is, I actually just had someone send me an email saying like, how do I stop craving foods? And my response was like, there's, it's not unnormal to not crave foods. Like everybody craves certain foods. And it's in, as soon as you kind of think about it logically or

scientifically, like, you know, biologically, why do I crave these foods? Cause they're like high in carbs and fats and they're palatable and they're salty and have all that. Even just the awareness of knowing that it's very normal to have cravings around certain types of foods kind of puts power back into your hands. Like you don't feel as out of control because, Oh, this is just a normal response. Just like when you have to go to the bathroom, can't just say, Nope, I'm not going to go. Like eventually you have to go, right? It's just one of these things that if you acknowledge it and say, okay, this is just normal, a normal biological response. But I can, I also have, you know, my frontal cortex and I can think ahead of this. I don't have to live in this moment and

succumb to the desire to eat right now. I can push it forward knowing that my long-term goals are more important to me. I think that can be a huge win too. Just, it really does give you the control when you realize that there's nothing wrong with the craving and it's normal, but you still are responsible for not letting it lead to excessive overeating all the time. Totally. It's getting, getting to the end is, is more important than how you get there in many ways, especially if we're just talking about losing weight. So long as you observe a few rules like, you know, don't go crazy with your calorie restriction, don't eat way too little protein, and don't do unconscionable amounts of cardio, and ideally do something for your muscles,

whatever it is. If you just kind of loosely follow those guidelines, the rest is negotiable and doesn't really matter so long as you get to where you want to be in the end. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's as long as it's not like, you know, it takes discipline and some restriction to achieve fitness goals, but like, you know, it's going to take time regardless. And the more intense you're going to be, or the more restrictive you're going to be, the more you're going to kind of struggle with those things. So I'm, you know So I think that you and I both agree like a more balanced approach or a more moderate approach is always going to be the better approach when you're looking at long-term results and sustainability. Absolutely. So let's say it has happened though, a binge,

a period of excessive eating, whether it's one day, two days, maybe it's even a few days. How do you help people work through the fallout? Some people, they don't have it and one day, two days, maybe it's even a few days. How do you help people work through the fallout? Some people, they don't have it and they go, eh, they just shrug it off and they go, eh, big deal, whatever. But that, I think in my experience, that comes usually with more veteran fitness peoples, people who have gotten very lean before and they've also gained a fair amount of weight before and they've done it multiple times. And they know the process. And it's just not a big deal. Those people are not concerned. But a lot of people who, like I said earlier, maybe this is they've struggled with losing weight for a while, or this is really their first go at it. What kind of advice do you

have for when they do overeat? And it's an unplanned bout of overeating. And I think the first place to start, I'll just throw it out there is, it's okay, it's going to happen. It's fine. It's going to happen. The only reason why I think there even should be a cause for concern is if it is happening very often. So I'll start there. What are your thoughts? Yeah, that's the first thing, right? And it's easy to say that. And honestly, sometimes people just need to hear that it's okay, even though they know it is, right? They just need it reaffirmed by somebody else. So that's always the first thing is reminding them, hey, it's one time, it's not that big of a deal. And if it really is just one time, it isn't a big deal. Practically, what I like to do,

or what I've seen work really well is, the first, the first thing is if it's somebody who's, you know, still sort of in that emotional attachment to eating and dieting and getting through that, you know, not weighing in for a few days. I think that helps, even though I will tell them, like, listen, you know, the weight doesn't matter. Sometimes just not worrying about that part for a few days can really be helpful with just focusing on getting back on track and kind of keeping yourself in like a more positive mindset. with just focusing on getting back on track and kind of keeping yourself in like a more positive mindset. Another thing that I really like for people to do is after having a meal or whatever, where they go over is trying to like do the best they can to plan out their eating for the next few days. And I like for people to do this thing where they do daily meal planning. So like the night before they'll plan their next day meals. And then at the end of that night, they'll plan their next day meals. So it's this thing where they're not like saying on Thursday, I have to eat this,

this, this, and this. And it's like Monday, right? And stuff might happen between Monday and Thursday. But just going into each day with like a solid plan of what you're going to do, and can really help with just getting back on track. And then by that point, if they can get through like three to four or five days of just like being back on point, whenever they start weighing again, they see that their weight's normalized, kind of going back to what I said right at the beginning of the podcast where they're like, oh, wow, okay, I really didn't do as much, you know, quote unquote damage as I thought I was going to do. Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense. Anything else that you've used with clients to help them get over maybe some of the guilt? Sometimes people

get pretty hard on themselves. Like it's because they're weak and, you know, they always fail and just that kind of stuff. Yeah. I always try to push it back on like in that situation. And obviously, you know, one of the reasons I like working with people one-on-one is because you can actually talk to them about things in terms of like, if they have like a specific issue, like talking them through that. Because, you know, like we talked about a lot of overeating is psychological in a sense. So figuring out, okay, why did you overeat? Like, why has this become a problem? And even just like vocalizing those things or writing them out in an email or whatever

can make it a lot easier to look at it objectively to start to, you know, fix that problem. Right. Because it's not the food isn't the problem. It's how you're using the food in response to something happening usually, which is the problem. So almost getting to the deeper cause of that, which is obviously not just an easy task for everyone, because sometimes it requires facing bigger demons. But you know, I think the more honest you can learn to be with yourself of why you're overeating, the easier it is to not use food in that way in the future. So something I might do with a client is, you know, after a night of doing that, like, and we're back on track, maybe even

talking about, okay, like, what was the plan that day? Like, what do you feel like happened that led to the overeating? And whatever it is, whether it's like, I got in an argument, I got stressed, I'm like, okay, well, in the future, like, what are some things that maybe we can do in that situation besides eating, right? Or, or things that when that happens to help prevent yourself from, you know, turning to food in that moment. And something might be like waiting 15 to 20 minutes, right? Or going, getting out of the house and doing something, right? Like small things and what works for one person isn't going to work for somebody else, which is why it's important to kind of experiment with yourself on those things. But I think that like going into it, recognizing that,

you know, there's a reason why you overate in the first place and addressing that rather than, you know, always thinking about like, how can I prevent myself from overeating? Thinking about why are you overeating in the first place so that it doesn't even become really an issue anymore or an option that is always happening. Yeah, that's a good point. And the stress point in particular is probably the most common one, right? It's probably the most common trigger for overeating. Any particular things that come to mind that you've found have been generally workable for people? Just other outlets, because obviously emotional eating is a very common outlet for just releasing stress, just feeling better. Yeah. No, I think that, I mean, honestly,

like I've noticed that people do really well with, and I think it also sometimes can be like men and women tend to like sort of respond differently. Like I noticed that a lot of my women clients, they do really well whenever in those situations, they are reaching out to someone, like calling a friend or just talking with like the people in their house, right?

Like just being in a social situation. I noticed that guys, a lot of the guys I work with, whenever they're like stressed out like that do really well, whenever they do something physical in response to like let out aggression, whether it's, you know, normally I'm not like a big cardio guy, like you have to go out and do cardio all the time. But I do notice that some people, you know, they just do have less stress when they go out and they do some form of cardio. I think it's something to do with like, you know, obviously there's like a physical thing that might be happening, but more so just like being able to focus that like aggression or whatever on something else can be really useful. But I think it's really just comes down to finding an activity that can

distract you that is something positive. So, you know, it might be hanging out with friends. It might be doing some type of activity or it might be like reading or even playing a video game or like watching a movie or something. I think that anything that will like get you out of that moment of feeling like you have to relieve it, like relieving stress in another way in essence is what tends to work, I think. i can i can second that i've thought about it myself because i'm not an emotional eater i'm just not that kind of person when i'm cutting for long periods maybe i over read a little bit here and there but nothing it's just it's not not exactly been an area of uh struggle for me so i'm trying to think that with with with stress in my, how do I cope with it?

Because I don't have the obvious coping kind of type of mechanisms where it's whether it be overeating or drug use is probably another common coping mechanism that would include alcohol. I think I just kind of turn into a dickhead. That's for sure. I don't know if that's my outlet. I just kind of turned into a dick. I mean, Hey, if it works, you know, I don't know. It depends on, I guess what your goal is at the moment, but, um, it's not, it's not even, it's, I mean, I guess that's, that's probably, that's probably, there's probably nothing I can ever do about that. Right. That's, that's probably the

appropriate emotional response. If, uh, there's a bunch of, a bunch of annoying shit that is raising stress levels. But who knows? Maybe it would benefit me to have some sort of reliable outlet. I mean, for me, I like to read. I guess there are a few activities that I can go to that I just enjoy and that calm me down. So maybe that's it. But I think there's also, this is kind of another conversation though, and I've written about this and probably spoken about it a bit as well, in that I think, well, I mean, there's research that backs this up and I've experienced it myself that stress isn't, there's a lot to be said that there is a subjective element to it. A lot of it is what you make of it. And so if, and this has been shown i think it's research that came out

of stanford i believe where you had students that believed i think they had they had exams coming up and students who believed that it was stressful were much more stressed about it and who perceived it as an as a as stress as The thing is, as the exams, as a negative stressful event, they did worse on their exams and they did worse in preparation. Whereas students who saw it more positively is that it's a challenge and they're working on it, they'll be okay, felt a lot less stressed about it. And so, I think there's something to be, I don't know, and this is something maybe I've always just been good at. And I don't, if that's the case, then I don't really

know why, but I am definitely the person to, I rarely ever have the thought. It would be hard for me to find the last time when I sat down and even said to myself, like, oh, I'm so stressed, or I have so much stress. I just don't really look at challenges in my life that way, even if they're annoying bullshit, quote unquote, challenges, stupid obstacles, stupid shit I have to deal with that is maybe really just would feel like a waste of time. Always I'm trying to reframe it positively in that there maybe there's a lesson I can learn out of this or maybe if I reflect on this I can I can see well what led me here maybe I can avoid situations like this in the future and then there's also something to be said for you know

who knows maybe the situation that I'm going through right now is going to work out very positively in a way that if I wouldn't be in this position now, I wouldn't even get to that next higher plateau. No, for sure. I always say there's not wins and losses. There's wins and lessons. And if you approach those situations where like yeah they could like negatives like overeating they can suck in the moment but you can look at those that's kind of why i think it's so important to really analyze why you did it in the first place because if you can learn you know what are the the things that happen in your life that lead to this you can you know be better able to

equip yourself with different tools or strategies to combat it, right? And be ready for it to happen, especially if it's something that's reoccurring. And I actually forgot to mention this earlier, not to go like too far off track, but like whenever I was talking about like planning your meals and responses to like overeating, like a lot of times people, I think when they're dealing with stress, it's a lot of times it's reoccurring stress or they're having those urges in similar times each day. Usually it's after work or whatever it is. And I think that if you are aware of that, if you can be honest and say, okay, I know that at this time of the day is when I tend to struggle the most.

And maybe a good idea would be to plan for that moment by if you know that you start craving chocolate at 9pm every single night, you know, after work, and then like the kids are screaming or whatever. And like, that's you tend to that's when you tend to struggle most, like planning in, okay, I'm gonna let myself have this amount of chocolate or whatever. And it fits into my day. And like, I've structured it all right. I think that can be like a huge win, because you kind of get the chocolate, you get that release, but then you also kind of get to stay on track with it too. But no, yeah, I totally agree though. It's similar. Like, you know, stress is very subjective, I think. And I think it just depends on the person. But usually I think, you know, people are just responding to something that's happening a lot in their life and being able to be responsible, I guess, with how you cope with it is going to be a big win. be a big win. Yeah, I totally agree. I think that's a good tip to have just reflecting on what because most of us are our days are are mostly the same, probably, at least from a, you know, in terms of the types of things we're going to be doing at certain times.

And and looking at how does that impact? How do your days impact you? I guess we're really talking emotionally. And if there are emotional low points that in some cases, maybe you can't avoid. And that is the reality. Sometimes, you know, we've all been there, where we go, yeah, I'd rather not have to experience that at 3pm. But I got to go to that meeting with this dickhead, you know, boss. And that's just the way it is. And he's going to be passive aggressive.

And he's a da da da, whatever. But you can think ahead on that. And, and instead of turning to the food, you can figure out something else. And, you know, something else I'll just throw out there is I also with when it comes to quote unquote stressful situations, if nothing else, I look at them as opportunities to get stronger as a person. And I think, say, our emotional strength or our spiritual strength, however you want to look at it, in many ways, trumps our physical strength. And that's David Goggin's whole thing, right?

That when you think physically that you can't go on, you can't go any further, you're like 40% of what you could do if you had the will. And the hardships, the obstacles, the problems that we have to deal with in life are opportunities to strengthen our will. And that matters. I know that it's becoming more and more trendy to be weak, really, as a person. And that manifests in many ways. And not only is it becoming more popular to just be weak, to be a victim, and then it's becoming more and more unpopular. And it's becoming, I'd say, actually, it's more to the point of demonization, and more unpopular and it's becoming, I'd say, actually, it's more to the point of demonization where the idea, just the concept of being strong as an individual, strong-willed, you could say strong of mind, even strong of body is being attacked. And that's more of a

cultural thing. But I think that that is actually pathological. I mean, I think that that goes down to even the root of, if you go too far in that direction, one day we will just be extinct. You go too far, you know, whether you like it or not, civilization was built by strong people. You know, people say America is a nation of immigrants. No, it's not. America is a nation of settlers. It's a nation of pioneers, of people who left what was comfortable and left civilization for all intents and purposes and came to a very inhospitable place where the risk of dying in many different ways was very high. And the guarantee, there were no guarantees in terms of survival in any sense. You might just starve to death. You might get mauled by a bear. There were so many things that could go wrong.

There are so many things that could go wrong. And so, the people that created really the West, this even goes earlier than America, were strong people. They were tough people, period. And if we think that now technology has allowed us to transcend the need for resilience, I think that's very naive. And that's, I know I'm kind of ranting now, but no, no, it's, but it makes it, it makes sense. Right. Cause it kind of goes back to understanding like the, you're a biological creature and like life can be hard. Right. And it's not just like sunshine and rainbows all the way through. And, and, you know, is even in a complex topic, like you're talking about, right. of survival of life and death, but then even in a more minute topic of like, you know, hunger and self-control, like, you know, those things, they all are important to understand. And it's really this comes, I think it does come down to like taking ownership and knowing what you want and being willing to, you know, fight through the good and the bad of achieving what that is. Right. And, you know, I think that life is

probably meant to be hard. That's probably, that's probably like into, it's just hardwired. It's coded into the operating system and complaining about it doesn't do anything. And I don't know if I'd go as far as saying that life is suffering, but we are all going to suffer. And so we better just be ready for that. And I would, personally, I think, and this is something Steven Pressfield said that has always kind of stuck with me. I think he is in one of his books. I don't know if it was in The War of Art, but the number one attribute that he ascribes his success to is just his ability to suffer. His ability to just sit down every day and keep going no matter how bad he feels about his work

or no matter how much stress he has or how many other things he has in mind, just suffer, just sit down and do it. And there's a lot to be said for that. No, no, I totally agree with that. And even in the case of dieting, for some people it's easy, for some people it's not.

And so that means that the suffering is maybe low for the people that have no problems and it just is smooth and the suffering is higher for the people who have issues. But if the people who have those issues can just suffer through it, when push comes to shove in other ways in life, I would put my money on those people, people who have, who have all, let's just take dieting, right? So they've never experienced any of that. Some, maybe, maybe I would be one of those people who I can't say I ever really suffered that much when it comes to food and eating, but what if I was in a situation all of a sudden where it was hard for whatever reason. And I've never experienced that before.

I mean, that is, I might find that it is a lot harder than I could even deal with. Whereas somebody who has gone through it, they've made it through, they have confidence in themselves. They are, again, I'd put my money on a person like that to even in other areas of life because I think that to do anything, it's going to require a lot of effort. Things are going to go wrong and you are going to be disappointed. There are going to be letdowns

and you got to keep going despite the pain. So yeah, dieting, if it's very painful for anybody listening, who knows? Maybe by just going through it, you very well are probably strengthening yourself in a more global way than just losing some weight

that is going to benefit you in other areas of your life. No, that's funny that you bring that up right there at the end because it's something that I usually bring up later on when I'm working with somebody. But one of the reasons why I love fitness in general is because especially in today's world, like it's one of the last things that we have that is like this physically stressful thing that we can create, right? I mean, the fact that we have to create stress by walking into a gym and doing that and, you know, controlling our nutrition or whatever it is, like it's, you know,

there's not a lot of that anymore because of all the convenience that we have. And what you said right there at the end, I think that if you take control of your health and fitness, because the thing is, is a lot of stuff in life is sometimes stuff that happens outside of your control and how you respond matters. But the one thing like you always have control over the food choices that you're making and your decision to exercise in whatever capacity. And I truly believe that when you decide to make it your goal to maximize that or to make that a priority in your life, and you do succeed in doing that, it absolutely translates to everything else in life. And I can even say that about myself, like how I lost a ton of weight. And through

doing that, that's, I think, why I was able to, whether it's starting my own business or doing other things, I credit it back to the fact that when you see the results of what hard work can really do and disciplined hard work and staying consistent, you almost get addicted to that. And you want to do that in other areas of your life because you want what's best at the end. Absolutely. I think that's a great note to end on. So absolutely. I think that's a great note to end on. So to wrap up, let's just let everybody know where they can find you, find your work. And if you want to talk about your coaching service or any products and services that

you want people to know about, now's your chance. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So it's super simple. It's just Carter Good everywhere. So Instagram is kind of my bigger one. So instagram.com slash Carter Good or on the app, obviously just search my name, my website's cartergood.com. And if people are interested, I actually do have a free like 14 day, like a, like an email fat loss course. It's just, if you go to fat loss forever course.com,

it's just like a, like a free daily email course I created. I sort of just goes over, you know, all the big topics about fat loss dieting and exercise and everything like that. But in terms of social media, definitely Instagram and my website will kind of point you to all the rest of them. So perfect. Thanks, Carter.

Appreciate you taking the time. This was great. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on. Hey there, it is Mike again. I hope you enjoyed this episode and found it interesting and helpful. And if you did,

and don't mind doing me a favor and want to help me make this the most popular health and fitness podcast on the internet, then please leave a quick review of it on iTunes or wherever you're listening from. This not only convinces people that they should check the show out, it also increases its search visibility and thus helps more people find their way to me and learn how to build their best bodies ever too. And of course, if you want to be notified when the next episode goes live, then just subscribe to the podcast and you won't miss out on any of the new goodies. Lastly, if you didn't like something about the show, then definitely shoot me an email

at mike at muscleforlife.com and share your thoughts on how you think it could be better. I read everything myself and I'm always looking for constructive feedback, so please do reach out. All right, that's it. Thanks again for listening to this episode and I hope to hear from you soon. And lastly, this episode is brought to you by me. Seriously though, I'm not big on promoting stuff that I don't personally use and believe in. So instead I'm going to just quickly tell you about something of mine, specifically my 100% natural fat loss supplement Phoenix. It has sold over a hundred thousand bottles in the last several years, and it helps you lose fat faster in three ways. One, it increases

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