Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Chase Chewning on Finding Silver Linings and Living With Intention

Episode Date: April 28, 2021

There’s no doubt that March 2020 upended hundreds of millions of lives. Here in the US (and a slew of other places around the world), lockdowns began with the aim to flatten the curve. In turn, this self-imposed (and government ordained) isolation has led to innumerable changes in our lives. Changes to what we do and how we work, changes to our relationships and how we interact with people (who had the foresight to buy Zoom stonk??), and changes to our mental health. It’s even changed how we eat and train thanks to closed gyms and unfettered access to our kitchen pantries and cookie jars. The good news is while most of us didn’t want any of this to happen, we didn’t have to let it derail our good habits. There are ways to workout effectively at home, you can still follow a meal plan and not binge on comfort food, and it’s possible to stay sane and productive without leaving your home for more than a daily walk. In fact, me knows a guy named Chase Chewning, who’s especially good at transforming tragedy into triumph, adapting and thriving in the face of whatever life throws at him. In case you’re not familiar with Chase, he’s a coach, podcaster (who I recently joined on his podcast, Ever Forward Radio), media consultant, and entrepreneur who I’ve had as a guest before to talk about the lesson that hardship taught him on building physical and emotional strength to find his passion and build a career in the fitness industry. In our discussion, Chase and I chat about . . . The realizations and changes he made as a result of quarantine The emotional training that resulted from it Re-building habits from scratch and re-building accountability systems Work/life balance with working from home Tweaks he made to his food choices and diet due to reduced activity levels and changes to training Re-affirming your "why" for training and how this affects intentionality in all areas of your life Accepting reality and adapting And more . . . So if you want to hear about how you can make the most of any situation and create your own silver linings, you want to listen to this episode! 10:49 - What are some changes you made during quarantine? 19:10 - How are you working back to your regular workout routine while quarantine is slowly going away? 29:24 - How has your diet been since quarantine? Mentioned on The Show: Chase Chewning’s Podcast (Ever Forward Radio) https://chasechewning.com/podcasts Chase Chewning’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chase_chewning/ Shop Legion Supplements Here: https://buylegion.com/mike Want free workout and meal plans? Download my science-based diet and training templates for men and women: https://legionathletics.com/text-sign-up/

Hello and welcome, welcome to Muscle for Life. I'm Mike Matthews, your host. Thanks for joining me today to hear from my buddy Chase Tuning on some of the life lessons that he learned from lockdown. And we've all learned lessons, good or bad. Hopefully we've all found some silver linings. These lockdowns began a long time ago. Remember the two weeks to flatten the curve? Remember that? And why we're still doing these things is anybody's guess. But at this point, we have to adapt, right? These lockdowns have changed our lives in many ways. They have changed how we spend our time, how we work. They've changed our relationships, how we interact. They've changed our relationships,

how we interact with people. If you had the foresight to buy some Zoom stonk in the beginning, good on you. And they've changed many people's physical health and mental health. And unfortunately, in a lot of negative ways. But in this conversation I have with Chase, we talk about how he has set out to turn the tragedy into triumph, which is something that he's familiar with if you know his story. And in case you don't, Chase is a coach. He is a fellow podcaster. I was recently on his show, for example, Ever Forward Radio. He's also a media consultant and he is an entrepreneur and he's somebody who I've had on the show before to talk about how to deal with hardship. And he has dealt with a lot of that and how to use it to build physical and emotional strength and

resiliency and how to find passion and how to find purpose from it. And in this discussion, Chase and I chat about some of the realizations that he has had and some of the positive changes he has made as a result of the quarantining that he has had to do. He lives in LA, so he's been on the receiving end of a big stick for a while now. Chase also talks about how he has had to rebuild some of his habits from scratch, really, and rebuild some of his accountability systems that he had in place. And he shares some insights that he has gleaned along the way and more. This conversation goes all over the place, but the theme is clear now. So if that sounds interesting to you, if you would like to hear some information

about how maybe you can make more of the situations that you have to face in your life and how you can create those silver linings, then I think you're gonna like this interview. Also, if you like what I am doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my sports nutrition company, Legion, which thanks to the support of many people like you is the leading brand of all natural sports supplements in the world. And we're on top because every

ingredient and dose in every product is backed by peer-reviewed scientific research. Every formulation is 100% transparent. There are no proprietary blends, for example, and everything is naturally sweetened and flavored. So that means no artificial sweeteners, no artificial food dyes, which may not be as dangerous as some people would have you believe, but there is good evidence to suggest that having many servings of artificial sweeteners in particular every day for long periods of time may not be the best for your health. So while you don't need pills, powders, and potions to get into great shape, and frankly, most of them are virtually useless, there are natural ingredients that can help you lose fat, build muscle, and get healthy

faster, and you will find the best of them in Legion's products. To check out everything we have to offer, including protein powders and bars, pre-workout and post-workout supplements, fat burners, multivitamins, joint support, and more, head over to buylegion.com slash Mike. support more, head over to buylegion.com slash Mike. That's B-U-Y-L-E-G-I-O-N.com slash Mike. And just to show you how much I appreciate my podcast, peeps, use the coupon code MFL at checkout and you will save 20% on your entire first order. Chase, welcome back to my show. I'm happy to be able to repay the favor. Likewise, Mike. Thank you so much for having me back. And I was telling you before, when we were re-recording for the latest episode of Ever Forward, it was weird, serendipitous timing. It was exactly one year when our last episode came out. So,

we're right on time, man. We're right on time. The universe says it's meant to be. That's what synchronicity is, right? I guess so. I'll take it. So how have you been? How have you been dealing with the last year or so? Because you are in LA, so you were in the epicenter of lockdown land. And I don't know which was stricter, maybe where you're at or New York City, maybe New York City. But I know because my brother-in-law lives in LA, he's a photographer. And so he actually came to Virginia and stayed with me and my family a bit, a couple of times just because he was like, all right, this sucks. Particularly in the beginning when there was no work for him and absolutely nothing to do,

nothing open. And that went on obviously for a long time. And how have you been dealing with it? It's been a wild ride, man. I can only imagine your brother-in-law, I mean, in that field of, hey, when the world stops, there's not really much you can take photos or videos of, I guess. Yeah. And he does fashion photography. So he has ongoing work with Nike and then they just stopped completely. And then he has various brands that hire him to create.

It's probably mostly promotional. I don't even know exactly, like, you know, if they need pictures for their next advertising campaign, you know, they'll hire him. And so basically all of that stopped. Jeez. Yeah. I mean, in so many ways, what a lot of us did stopped or it was temporary and then just became very different. Right. And what's really

funny about the timing of this, Mike, is right after that was honestly my last trip. I was back to DC, back visiting, doing some of those like part work, part fun. I was in Northern Virginia, DC, and that's when we caught up. And that's one of the reasons why I love traveling and honestly, just going to expos and conferences and meeting up with people in real life, because it's always a great resurgence, if you will, of motivation, of ideas. And I remember our conversation, I think we sat down, it was like early, mid-February 2020, and we were getting into the thick of training protocols and talking about hard sets. And you were just about to come out with your new book. So all this information and research was, again, just top of mind for you. And I love taking conversations like that from the podcast,

or like I said, a conference or an expo or something, and then immediately going back home and applying it. Well, that fell on deaf ears, really that trip. Because as soon as I came home, that's when everything got grounded. It was just a couple of weeks later. And so it was like, you get a lot of motivation, you get a lot of ideas, you really go, go, go. And then all of a sudden the world yanks the rug out from underneath you and you're just left with, well, now what? And I think myself, like a lot of people, especially who are avid trainers, who are business owners, or just, you know, used to a very active lifestyle and not staying sedentary in any area of their life. It was a big, big change. And I'll be honest, the first couple of weeks,

I think like a lot of people, it was, it felt like adult snow day, right? Like, okay, school's canceled, work's canceled. Nobody knows what's going on. We're just supposed to sit at home for what was it? Two weeks, right? So I was like, all right, I can take some days off. You know, I'll just maybe go take a walk or something. I'll just chill at home, catch up on some movies, throw back a few beers, you know, just really try to soak it up for what I thought. Two weeks to flatten the curve.

Remember that one? Yeah. Two weeks to flatten the curve and a few weeks to not flatten my belly. That's for sure. To unflatten your belly. To unflatten my belly. Flatten the curve, but unflatten my belly. And then I just began to realize that, oh no, wait a minute, this isn't really going anywhere. What it did was it gave me a lot of friction, gave me a lot of resistance. And especially, I mean, I was living in a high-rise apartment building downtown Los Angeles at the time. And one of the main reasons I moved there is because it had this phenomenal gym, like this fitness center

beyond fitness centers. Like I would have paid a gym membership to come to this place, even if I didn't live there. And even that got taken away. And so I just began, all of these things that I was used to having began to be shut off and restricted and no access or limited access. And like anything that happens in our life, and especially when it comes to our training, it's almost like you're coming up against an identity crisis. Like, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. It's Thursday. I have to squat. What do you mean the gym's closed? And so it began to be this whole

friction against, this is the day of the week. This is what I'm supposed to train. This is who I am. This is what I'm working on. And while yes, it's all well and good, I think everybody should find something that works for them and to take care of themselves and fitness and wellness and all of that. It began to really kind of shine a light on, in a way, you know, like the ego, what do you mean? Like I have all these expectations. I want, I want me, me, me. And so that was kind of like the first wave of things that I had to go through to just really step back and be like, look, this is not going anywhere. This is like going against your norm chase, but it doesn't matter. There's something much, much bigger going on here. And so I had to really kind of swallow that pill first. And then after that, like a lot of people, I think when you are alone,

when for whatever reason, you know, we are allowed or not allowed or supposed to do, we're not supposed to do a lot of different things. And we're literally left by ourself or left with just one or two family members in our household, or just we're kind of ostracized from community, it leaves us with ourselves. And in some ways that was very scary in the beginning because you go stir crazy, you get emotional. But then over time, it really began to shine a light on a lot of things in my life that were, all right, well, if I can't go like squat out or lunge my stressors or whatever's going on in my life and, you know, get those endorphins and work through things that way, I'm going to have to do it another way. And it began to show me a lot of

areas of my life that in terms of like mental health, emotional health, that I had a lot of room for improvement on and being alone for that long. I mean, luckily I had my wife, but, you know, still two people in a one bedroom apartment for months, you get pretty wild and crazy. So it just kind of rattled the cage, man. It rattled the cage of the head and the heart for me. And what are some of the changes that you made as a result of that? I think it definitely started off with a lot more conversation because again, we couldn't do anything else, a lot more conversation. And then we all went through the Zoom phases, right? We're having Zoom happy hours, Zoom workouts, Zoom this, Zoom that, or just any kind of video platform experience. And then everybody's kind of laughing

and joking, but then all those kind of icebreakers are gone, right? And then you have to get real. And so I found myself with myself, with my wife, with family members, friends, through various video platforms, getting very, very real pretty quickly because I think everybody- And what do you mean by that? And I'm curious, what do you mean specifically? Yeah, yeah. Good question. So I don't know how I can handle this. Me speaking or other people, I don't know how long is this going to go on? What are we going to do? Like, I'm freaking out. And then it goes from a joke of like, yeah, I'm freaking out to like, no, I'm, I'm actually really like freaking out. Yeah. Like how am I going to keep making money? Am I going to lose clients? Am I going to,

you know, again, me and other people here talking, it's just like all of these topics and things that came pouring out of people and myself was just like, no, these are very, very real topics. These are very, very real things that I think before this lockdown, many of us, maybe I'll just speak for myself. We kind of, kind of, kind of kept, you know, just below the surface. They were the topics that we could share and laugh and joke about or, or whatever, and then not have to go any further for some of us. But now, when that's all we have, they begin to just pour out. Concerns over finances, concerns over health, of course, concerns over just lack of communication,

lack of touch, lack of interaction, concerns about, I mean, all of these little daily things that so many of us took for granted or we realized had so many outlets for that were now restricted, it got very real, very fast. And I've, I would have conversations just, you know, kind of walking people through, you know, Hey, I'm not used to crying this much. You know, I myself, I'm not used to crying this much. It's just like, what's going on? Why are we getting so emotional? And, you know, I, God, I miss the gym. And I, for me, especially, it really showed me how important taking care of my body was. I have a lot of reasons for being so active. And two of them is because I have some family history of diseases and I lost my father to a terminal illness. And then secondly, I went through a lot of injuries in my early twenties that left me unable to do really anything. And so I have a lot, a big

appreciation and drive from those instances to stay moving. But it now, I mean, late twenties and thirties now when it's become a part of my identity and just what I do and how I work, it really solidified. This isn't just a choice. This isn't just something that I do or a lot of people do in terms of- It's not a luxury, right? that I do or a lot of people do in terms of- It's not a luxury, right? Exactly. Like, no, it actually has weight. It has value.

It has worth. And there are so many other things that it contributes to our overall happiness, insanity that I think I didn't even fully realize. And hell, I've got a master's in health promotion and nutrition, but anybody- You have to experience it firsthand, right?

It's one- You can't study any of this. Exactly. Because you can even hear people like us talking about the, let's say, therapeutic value of training beyond the body composition stuff. And it sounds nice, but it's not real until you have experienced it yourself. It's just not. So true. So true. I mean, how many times do people say, oh, like I just need to sweat it out or had such a crazy day in the office. And really, I just can't wait to go to the gym. I need to start my day off right.

You know, I need to start, you know, go for a run because if not, then I just don't feel right. We'll take that, but just multiply it by weeks, months at a time now, or, you know, a year. And like what we're saying before we hit record here in Los Angeles, just this week, like mid March, 2021, we are getting the green light to begin to open back up gyms. So it has been a full year for me. And I've had touch and go experiences, like little, literally speak easy gyms, like some private gyms, like, yo, Hey Chase, roll through Tuesday, 1130 AM. You can work out for like 45 minutes. Yep. A buddy of mine's in the Czech Republic right now.

And that's the setup. Yeah. Technically gyms are closed, but he found one that will let him come work out during certain times for a premium, which because it's the Czech Republic, it's not too expensive. But he had to smuggle his way into a gym just to get his workouts in. Oh, I believe it. I believe it. I mean, hell, I went and visited my brother in Texas twice over the pandemic.

I was there for days just because he has a private gym. And Texas was opening back up way more quickly than California. And Mike, man, when I went there to visit him those two times, the feeling that came rushing back over me from just moving some weight around. And it was a little humbling too. I mean, I definitely was not working back up to my normal heavy sets. I prefer to kind of go heavy in my compound movements, three by three, five by five kind of thing. And then just kind of have fun with accessories after that. I had to check that at the door a little bit, but just the rush of endorphins and sensation and again, identity really of just like, yes, this is what I love to do. It

makes me feel so good. It was unparalleled. I developed a whole new appreciation for that and honestly, gratitude as well. And another big thing that hit me, Mike, was before the lockdown, this is the stuff that I came up against for many years. I was a clinical health coach for many years and I run an online coaching business for a while. And then I would hear these things from people like, oh, I just can't get into the habit or, oh, I haven't been into the gym in months or years. And just for me, it was so hard to kind of just understand what do you mean? What do you mean? But then you just, I realized through this pandemic of, oh, now like this is what happens. Like you miss a couple of

days, you miss a couple of weeks. And then all of a sudden you just build a new lifestyle, your habits change, and then your new norm changes. And then the activation energy required to get going again, just can seem insurmountable. Exactly. And yeah, to your point, insurmountable of it becomes, can I even do this again? It's like, you're starting from ground zero again. And luckily I found a, an outdoor group exercise gym that opened up a little bit earlier. I've been going there for a couple of weeks and man, holy hell, do I feel amazing. I'm getting back into it, but it was just really wild of when you give your body, whether you choose to or not, I call this pandemic for me, at least it was like the

deload that I didn't want. It was the life deload that I didn't ask for, nobody asked for. And look, I don't advocate for taking that much time off of being that active. For many people, it's probably like detraining, but it started as a deload. Seriously, completely unacclimating your body to everything you've been working on for years. But when you take that amount of time off from one thing and you go through all that resistance and you go through all that work and you go through all the feels, right? Well, it shows you, I mean, you're only left with what you can work on. And lucky for me, I put things in place in my life and practices and certainly people to really kind of pivot in a way to allow for that, to lean into that in terms of the training, but the rest of my healing that has happened and the significant relationships that I have created and the ones

that I already had and that have deepened, I've come out of this. I'm very, very grateful for this. I've come out of this with a much, much more solidified relationship with my wife. I have really connected with people that were just kind of like social, maybe kind of weekend friends that, you know, due to the circumstances, due to us being on lockdown together, like these will be people in my life for the rest of my life. And it's just when you can't do anything else, but we kind of go back to basics, right? We go back to just primal beings of living in a cave together, telling stories, so to speak. It's a type of connection and growth and emotional training, I think, that would never would have happened otherwise.

And how then have you started working back toward now that you're getting the opportunity to and things are starting to, it appears like we're moving back towards some sort of normalcy. Talk to me about that activation energy point that we brought up, because I'm sure that you may even still be dealing with a bit of that, because I think it's definitely positive in that you were able to find the silver lining, so to speak, or create the silver lining. Create it, was it? Yeah, but now there's the, okay, the reality of you're going to want to put some of the pieces back in place that you had previously, right?

The key term you said there is activation energy. And kind of going back to what I was saying of when I would work with clients every day and kind of work through their readiness to change and building new behaviors. I really had to do that for myself again. I've created a whole new norm. I have created a whole new schedule. I have created a whole new mentality outlook and like, which in some ways is good, but in other ways it is probably, there are aspects of it, right? That if you didn't change them would hold you back from accomplishing, I would guess goals in your career goals with your body. So true. Probably many things. So true. Very true. So what I had to

do was once there was something that became available, here's kind of like the process that I had to get that activation energy back. I, I couldn't go do what I wanted to do. And that was go to my normal gym and move my normal weights and just go to my preferred way of training. And so I had to really quickly realize that, okay, Chase, that's what you want, but that's not what you can do. That's not a possibility right now. An adult moment. Oh, the worst adult moment.

Sometimes you don't get what you want. God, I can't get what I want, but here's a possibility to get what I need. And what I need is I need to get much more regular exercise in terms of intensity, frequency, all the things that I know that will move the needle in terms of every area of health and wellness in my life. So I found an option and that was this outdoor circuit style, high intensity workout training with some weights and stuff involved, but nothing like what I'm used to. Not the kind of thing you would normally sign up for. No, no, no, no, no. Especially not the kind of thing I would pay money for. So I was like,

here's the only thing that is option. And second to that was, all right, here's what I can do. And the second thing is accountability because I already know going into this, that is not my preferred form of training. So what can I do to hold myself accountable? Well, one, again, I'm paying for it. And like you alluded to earlier, man, the markup lately is crazy because, hey, supply and demand, right? I think he said he was paying $200 a month to go to some gym that they had moved all of their equipment outside into the parking lot and put a tent over it, basically. And he had to drive an hour to get there. Yeah. So now I have to go twice as far, pay twice as much and get half of what I'm used to. And so that's when you just have to really look at weighing your options. Of course, can I afford this? Thankfully, yes. Do I want to pay it? No. Do I need it? Yes. And then the other accountability component was my wife. And to anybody listening who maybe they're not quarantined with anybody or don't live with anybody, I would still highly

recommend getting some kind of accountability person. So if you do find a place, if you do find somewhere you can go and can afford and can do it, whoever else is there, like get their number, get their Instagram handle. You guys sign up for the same things together, because I promise you when you're trying to rebuild a habit of something that you know you can do and you have done before, but you're so far removed from that habit, you need help. You need assistance to develop that initial traction before you can get solo momentum. And so for me, that was my wife. And she was like, look, all right, we're going to look at

our schedules each week and we're going to book these classes all together each week. And that way we're paying for it. We're going together and we're building the rest of our schedules around the gym, which I think is a great way to go for anybody instead of trying to work through that excuse or the barrier to entry of, I'm just too busy. I can't do this. Can't do that. Well, we went the opposite. We started priorities. The first thing in our day, exactly, is we're going to do this workout. And then from there, we're going to adjust our schedules because, you know, still here, 2021, I have always really worked from home anyway, but you know, most people remote working schedule flexibility. Look again, you know, still here, 2021, I have always really worked from home anyway. But, you know, most people, remote working, schedule flexibility. Look, again, this is the new. And he's inclined to work at all times.

And if he's not working, he feels like he should be working because there's always more to do. And I tell him like, dude, I appreciate it, but that's not expected. And if anything, I want you to not operate like that because outside of our work relationship, we're friends and that's just not the best way to live. I know I've been there myself. So let's make sure that you are taking time. I want you as your boss. I am telling you, take time to go to the gym. Take time. If you want to watch a movie or do something, take some time for yourself. I do not expect you to be working all of the time and it's not necessary. And it was a good productive conversation though, because it helped for him to hear that from me again, as his

friend, but also as his employer. And so I do understand where he's coming from though, because for a long time, I mean, I'm still kind of that way. Honestly, I've just gotten better with tempering it, I guess, but I know how that is to just want to, especially when I have very specific goals in mind, my just tendency is to want to do nothing but work toward those goals. And if I'm not working toward those goals, I'm like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this when I could be working toward these goals? And I've had to kind of, I guess, view certain aspects of my life, like my family, for example. I can't exactly use that lens.

Like, what is the explicit goal here of spending the quality time? It doesn't really compute that way. It's a bit different. You know what I mean? It's just quality time, Mike. Yeah, I'm with you. Exactly. Exactly.

So my point with saying all of that is I know that there are a lot of people out there who have found working at home more of a challenge because now it's easier to just work all of the time. Like if you have your laptop and you're now used to, you have your whole setup and now there isn't any sort of distinction between work happens at the office and other things happen at home, it quickly can become, and I know just again talking with people, it has become harder for them to do anything other than just work. And fitness can kind of go by the boards along with a lot of other important, whether you want to call it self-care or just elements of our daily routine that keep us

sane and happy and at least somewhat balanced. Yeah, it's so true. I mean, and I actually was joking about this long before the pandemic of people always asking, oh, how do you like working from home? What's it like working, you know, for yourself out of your home office? And, you know, until I actually, you know, we moved out of downtown last year into a place where I actually have different rooms and can compartmentalize things. I hated it. And here's where I think, again, spending that much time in lockdown, in restricted access to people, places, and things, we develop new norms. We develop associations for things that we don't really fully realize because they just happen in the background. When you're in an environment for

X period of time, I don't know the exact number here. It's very relative to the person and what you're doing. Your brain just biochemically, like the neuroscience here, it is the most amazing organ, most amazing machine, but it is so extremely lazy. It is constantly looking for the quickest, easiest way to lay down a connection between A and B or A, B, and C so that they can do it once and not have to do it again. And then just basically put you in autopilot. So when you're in, like I was last year, a one bedroom apartment, and in some ways you can stand in like one corner and kind of see your entire world of your office, your living room, your bedroom,

your kitchen, it is very, very difficult to really break up. What am I supposed to be doing? Because I am just here doing all the things all at the same time. So when you're walking through, like to your point, Mike, of I see my laptop, oh, I'm supposed to be working. Oh, I'm in the kitchen. I guess I'm supposed to be eating. So every way you go down a slippery slope of, I'll make the statement here of being slightly out of control of your habits. It's more like your autonomic nervous system is an autopilot here. And this is where I'm sure a lot of people maybe struggled with. I just found myself gaining some weight. I found myself snacking. I didn't really know why I found myself getting burnt out and working more. I found myself sleeping more. Well, were you just present more in your kitchen? And that's why you were snacking.

Were you present more in your home office or just around your computer? And that's why you were overworking. Were you present more in the bedroom, you know, watching Netflix, you know, 20 hours a day. And that's why you were just sleeping. Like, that's why it's so important to kind of break this up and why I'm so grateful now to be able to kind of get out of that routine again. Cause look, if I can just get out of the house, seriously, put on my workout shoes and clothes and just get out of the house. And I just walked down to this fitness center, like I'm good. And it's really, you have to disrupt that pattern. You have to disrupt that neural connection that your brain has been making now for a year of no, no, no, no. Like we can do all of this here.

And by us doing that, I save energy. I save time. If you like what I'm doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my sports nutrition company Legion, which thanks to the support of many people like you is the leading brand of all natural sports supplements in the world. How has the diet gone? It sounds like I got a little bit, maybe not out of control, but maybe it was non-optimum for a little bit. It was a little loose for a while for sure. I mean, totally, honestly, it was kind of playing fast. And that point that you just mentioned about the environment, right? If you're just around food, unless you are very deliberate about it, and this applies toally, you see the fridge and you know

what's in the fridge or you see the pantry, you know what's in the pantry. And then also if you have things lying around that, whether it's chips or, I mean, even stuff like fruit, for example, not that it's bad per se to eat more fruit. But if it's there, you want it. If it's there, you're going to eat. Yeah. It's also calories though, right? I mean, if just having fruit around increases your daily calorie intake by let's say three to 500 calories and you don't make any reductions anywhere else, you're now just eating more food every day and now you first couple of weeks, it was probably a good thing. I was training very hard, very frequently. And honestly, it felt good. I let my guard down a little bit with my eating habits. Almost like a little beginning of a lean bulking phase. But it's like, if we go on vacation or something, right? And I remember so many times people come back and when I was health coaching, like, oh, I was gone for like four days or a week and I just really had fun and didn't really watch what I ate.

And they'd be surprised that they actually maintain the same weight or even lost weight. Well, we know because you let your guard down, cortisol drops, stress gets reduced, probably sleeping more. You're around good people, good places, and it's just more conducive to recovery overall. And I felt like I had that for the first couple of weeks. I was taking a lot of time off from training. My nutrition became very chill. I was just enjoying more foods. I was exploring more foods. You know, I was trying to support local businesses and pick up, you know, food to go when I could. And my wife and I were getting very creative with new recipes and all that stuff. But then I realized I was going, it transitioned into, all right, I'm really noticing I'm losing my appetite. And if anybody knows me, I am team always hungry. I will throw down food and then I'm ready for the next meal. I am always hungry. I've always had a high metabolism. Like I said,

I've been training for years very regularly. And when I noticed that my hunger level began to dip, I was like, oh no. At this point, you know, I'd been maybe a couple of months and I was like, oh, I know what that means because I've been going about this for so long. My metabolism is slowing down. Yeah. It's usually it's energy expenditure going down and calories in going way up, usually. You said it, brother. You said it. And then on top of that, no longer the need for as much protein or as many calories because I wasn't repairing any muscle tissue. I wasn't recovering. I had no need to recover to the level that I did before. And so my body's going to adapt, right? It's going to down-regulate that metabolism. It has no need to work as hard if it doesn't have to. And so I noticed that, all right, well, here's where I really need to make the shift. And it was a bitter pill to swallow again. I'm going to have to really consciously cut down the calories because I can't keep eating at the same

level I was before, or else I'm going to really start putting on some weight. I made a much more conscious shift into upping really my protein intake, making the majority of my calories come from protein because, well, to our previous statement, I hadn't really before. I was enjoying the time off and not really watching what I was eating. But then a really good thing happened as well. A lot of the things I've been talking about, a couple of months in, your new norm changes, your acceptance changes a little bit, or at least for me. And I really had to focus a lot, lot more on quality foods. And before when I was training four or five days a week, you get a little bit of that luxury. I'm always team quality foods first, but hey, part of the reason why I love squatting and

deadlifting every week is because if I want to get a pizza on Sundays and maybe have a couple of IPAs and I'm going to do it, but that didn't really fly anymore. So quality became a much bigger emphasis in terms of I really got to increase the vegetables I'm getting already in my day. I've got to make more of a focus on protein. For the first time in many, many, many years, I'm going to be significantly cutting carbohydrate in my diet because I don't need it. And as much as my body really does thrive off of carbs, especially when I'm frequently training, I just noticed my muscles weren't really as saturated. I had no need to replenish glycogen. I just had no need for all these extra carbs and really sugars. So it was a shift to a heavy focus on quality, a majority focus on

protein. And then honestly, just, I haven't been in maintenance calories for this long in years, just really consciously making sure I'm honestly, Mike, not under consuming calories because I noticed my metabolism getting dropping so much. And I was losing my appetite so much that once I actually began to kind of like lull calories again, I was just curious. I was like, damn, I'm only getting like 1400, 1600 calories by, you know, by like dinner time if I'm lucky. And that was really where I began to kind of catch myself, how tricky under consuming calories can be, even when you're trying to just maintain a normal body weight. Yeah. That's a common problem that quote unquote hard gainers have. That is, I've worked with many of those guys over the years and it's, yeah, it's often related to

appetite. They think that they're eating three, 4,000 calories per day. And then I have them actually log what they eat for a few days. And it's more like 2000, maybe 2,500, if that's a particularly gluttonous day, right. And they just don't realize or did not realize that they didn't have a big appetite in an absolute sense. It felt like they were eating a lot of food on 2,000 or 2,500 calories, but they just didn't realize how much food it actually takes to consistently gain muscle and strength

for some people, and particularly people who are high meat meat for people listening, that's non-exercise activity, thermogenesis. So people just tend to move a lot. They just burn, it can be anywhere from hundreds to a thousand plus calories per day without even realizing it, not exercising per se, just fidgeting. And when they're on the phone, they're always walking around and they will take the stairs instead of the elevator and then they'll take the stairs down and then it just adds up. All those little actions add up, fidgeting a lot. And those types of people, this is usually guys. Maybe I've heard from a couple of hard gainer women over the years, but it's primarily a male thing because most guys are the ones saying,

I just want to weigh more. I just want to be bigger. That's not usually a female goal, but yeah, a lot of, a lot of times it's related to appetite. And so if anybody listening is struggle with that or is struggling with that, you can find some good information on that over at legionathletics.com. If you search for hard gainer, you'll find an article I wrote. If you search for food to gain weight, that should pull up an article I wrote on helping you figure out how much food you need to eat to consistently gain weight. And by that, I really mean muscle primarily. Obviously, you're going to gain some fat along the way as well, but really gaining muscle and strength. And then how to turn that into a meal plan that works. But yeah, I just wanted to quickly interject that there because I know that is a common issue. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. I mean, that absolutely was me years ago, the beginning of my fitness journey. And when I began to regularly strength train, it was nothing's happening. Like I feel better, you know, maybe getting a little bit stronger, but my body's just not growing. And yeah, man, for me, for about four, four, six months, I was getting close to like 3,500, if not even 4,000 calories most days.

And for me that went, I gained about, about eight pounds. I'd say probably a solid, like maybe like five or six of that was, I can definitely look back and say muscle, but just that's how hard my metabolism was already running. And then on top of training, I really had to up it. And then that's when you really have to know yourself, right? So someone like myself who has been actively training for about a decade, pushing like 12 years, I guess, your body's going to have various levels of adaptation because at that point, you're going to know like, hey, we've gone through periods like this before of high intensity, a lot of exertion, a lot of stress, a lot of growth, a lot of recovery.

So it's going to be a lot more malleable in terms of holding the line, so to speak, of maybe when you take a little bit time off, like those first couple of weeks of the pandemic. And then once you start getting back into the swing of things, like I am now, I already noticed Mike two weeks in and I feel very well adapted. That first week of those classes sucked. I was sucking wind. I was very humbled. But now two weeks in, I feel very adapted. I'm, you know, maxing out the weights that they have for the station that we can do.

I'm not getting, you know, as winded. I feel very adapted. And I credit that to many years of just going through these cycles and phases of training and nutrition. I really hope that the listener can latch onto that as well. It's basically like newbie gains again. You can enjoy it. I've experienced that a couple of times over the, what is it?

I guess I've been training for about 18 years now. And the longest break that I ever took was probably a month. No, there was like a two month, almost a two month period when I fractured my wrist. Okay, that'll do it. Yep. I was like a two month, almost a two month period when I fractured my wrist. Okay. That'll do it. Yep. I was in a full arm cast and I did in the beginning, I was like, I'll do legs and I'll do what I can do. But then the cast started smelling like just, yeah, just rotten demon carcass. And so I had to stop. But when I got back into it, it was nice to have the muscle memory gains, which again felt like newbie gains. I was like, all right, well, that's a, I don't know if it was worth the time off, but at least I get to have

some fun here for the next couple of months, quickly getting back to where I was. Seriously, that's exactly it. And you will get back. I don't know, and maybe this is just me personally. I don't know if I'll get back to the level that I was, but by choice. And that's another big thing that has shined through for me during this last year. Like I was talking about earlier, a lot of the inner work, a lot of just emotional health, mental health, I won't even say challenges, but just what came up during that time for me personally. And a lot of what I worked through in those relationships I was talking about really helped me get to a point where I have become and continue to become much more clear in what I choose to do and why. And more importantly, how I go about it, the process through which I do my works. And by works,

I mean how I show up in those relationships, how I show up in the world, my actual work, what I do to put a roof over my head. But even so to the point, Mike, of training. And it sounds kind of weird to say, but I'm sure somebody listening can relate, especially early in your fitness journey. Why do you work out the way that you do? Why do you do a upper body, lower body split? Why do you do, you know, Olympic lifting? Is it because that is exactly what you want to do and that's what interests you the most? Or like I was saying earlier, that whole accountability component, or is it just like what maybe your buddy was training in the gym? Is it just what was popular

at the time? And I'm not saying that's wrong because look, it got you moving, right? It got you in the gym, it got you training and it got you to develop that habit and hopefully helps you look good, feel good. But where I'm going with this is that it really solidified my process and my why for training. I realize, I'll be honest too, man, I'm 35, but the body just kind of goes through different seasons as it ages. But I really, really came to terms with that. A lot of the ways that I was training in terms of literally the movements, the frequency, the intensity was just because that's how I got my start.

That's how, that's how the people that I trained with when I first started training, because I just wanted, you know, I was chasing that community aspect really. I was like, Hey, these people I really enjoy. I want to be with them more, you know, I was chasing that community aspect, really. I was like, hey, these people I really enjoy. I want to be with them more, you know, friends, family, whatever. So I'm just going to go do what they're doing. I fully enjoyed it and I still do. But now that that component has become more solidified of I really have my community down and the community was really set during a time when I didn't have the fitness.

All these relationships I was talking about, the one with myself, the one with my wife, my friends, my family, all the work that we've done this last year, it happened outside of the gym. It happened in a way that I, again, will say is very, very primal. It's just old human civilization around a campfire, storytelling and bonding and just opening up. And so I think that showed me personally a very, very natural just state of being that I want to be in. And then on top of that, now I'm just going to go back and get physically active in a way that I fully want. Now, look, don't get me wrong, man. You can definitely, you're going to catch me squatting and deadlifting again, here and there.

So long as, that sounds nice. So long as it's not an excuse to not squat and deadlift. That sounds nice, so long as it's not an excuse to not squat and damage. I mean, I honestly, that's my church for sure. But maybe to the point of really striving just for the next five-plate club or chasing that next PR or something, really, for me, it became, why? Do you really, really want that? It's a cool marker, I guess, but why does it matter to you? Do you actually care that much about it? And that's the relationship that I am really grateful for

that I'm redeveloping with training, redeveloping with the gym. And honestly, I hope everyone listening can have as well, whether you're just starting or you're five, 10, 15 years in, knowing why you're doing something and having a love for the process of it is always going to treat you better in the long run. And I think it just develops a much healthier relationship in anything you're doing in the gym and out. And you really have to tackle that at some point,

because when you're new, your first year, maybe even two years, let's say your first two years, it's pretty straightforward. Your why is you're making progress so easily. If you're doing most of the things right, yeah, it just takes care of itself, right? I mean, you're just excited in the beginning. You can add weight to the bar every single week. There you go. That's fun. And you can see your progress pictures changing every four weeks or so. There's

going to be a pretty noticeable change when you start flipping through them. And then it slows down a bit in your second year, but you still make fast enough progress. Like to put a number to it, your average guy can probably gain about 20 pounds of muscle, maybe a little bit less, but let's just say 20 ish in his first year. And then about half of that in his second year for women, the numbers are halved. So maybe about 10 to 15 in year one and about half that in year two, but that's still a lot. I mean, that still is enough to make a big difference. And if you are new to energy balance and macronutrient balance, that's like a revelation that that's all you have to do to control your body composition. It's really that easy. And so it's fun, but then you fast

forward to year five. And if you've been doing things mostly right for most of those five years without any major breaks or hiccups, you've achieved at least probably 80% of your potential for strength. Well, let's say for muscularity and strength, you might be able, depending on your genetics, you might be able to progress maybe up to even 10 years or so, but most people are going to be certainly over the 50% mark in terms of potential for strength and probably about 80% in terms of muscularity. And for women, you could think of that as muscle definition, just muscle fitness, I guess you could say. And so then why do you keep doing it? Up until then, you've been driven just by the objective results you've seen in the mirror and you've seen on the scale. And now those have shrunken to the point

where they are just vanishingly small. And I guess also driven by what you see in the gym itself, like, okay, I'm getting stronger. I'm getting better at these exercises. Then there's a realignment that has to happen for you to want to keep doing it. So I would say that being able to get ahead of that is smart, even though you still can be very motivated in the beginning by these objectives. Oh, yeah, 100%. Easy, tangible results. books, even for beginners is I don't see why we shouldn't get a bit deeper and find some more meaningful whys because you're going to need them at some point, or there's a fair chance that you're going to quit or you're going to take it to an extreme. I guess it's exactly many people

quit or they go the other way and they either start working out to, or exercising training to just an inappropriate, unhealthy level. Like I've heard from quite a few people over the years now where they're lifting weights six days a week and they're beating themselves up with a bunch of cardio as well. And they're trying to stay super lean and you can't do that as a natural weightlifter. You can get away with it if you're willing to take enough drugs, but of course you're gonna pay that piper eventually. You can delay the consequences with enough drugs, yes.

But as a natural weightlifter, you can't do that. So to be able to find the happy medium, so to speak, as an intermediate or an advanced weightlifter requires a different mindset and it requires a different approach than when you're new. It's so true. It does. And you'll know that as you progress in your training and in your nutrition and just understanding that energy in, energy out balance of what ignites you, what makes you feel the best, when to slow down, when to speed up. That is a very, very personal

thing. And I promise you, you will figure it out. And you have to be willing though, like you were saying, you have to be willing to try different things out. You have to be willing to, in some ways, like explore your instincts, I guess you could say. And I've spoken about this and that's, that is totally appropriate when you've reached that maintenance phase, so to speak, where you more or less have the physique that you want. Because if somebody tells me, if I say, what are you most interested in accomplishing right now? And who cares what other people might think about it, right? If it's just a vanity point, if you just want to look really good and you want to be strong and you want to feel strong, great, let's do that. Okay, so let's say we've done that. And for most people, that of course is why they get into fitness. And for most of us, that's at least half of the reason why we keep doing it. Right. So myself included for sure, for sure. But once you've gotten to a point where you're like, okay, we're always our own worst critic. And we're always going to find something about our physiques. We don't like if we let ourselves dwell on these things too much. But if we just look at the mirror and compare that to any standard of

fitness and say, I like that. I'm happy with what I see. And I've achieved more or less my, I'm never going to be perfect because nothing's ever perfect, but I have achieved a high level of aesthetic fitness, right? And what do I do next? That's the point where you can now, do you need to be doing five days of strength training per week to keep that look? No, no, you don't. You could do probably, if we were talking just maintenance,

you could certainly do one upper body and one lower body strength training workout per week and maintain all of your muscle and a lot of your strength. You will lose some strength on some movements, but you're still going to be strong. If you got strong and you got into very good shape, you can stay that way with just two workouts per week, certainly with three. If you want to do like a push-pull legs, for example, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then what else are you going to do? Well, to your point, what are you interested in?

What sounds like fun? That's part of the reward of putting in all of that work and being so structured and getting again, like choosing the most efficient way to get to a very fit physique, for example. But then once you're there, what you want to start doing kickboxing classes, doing kickboxing classes, whatever you want to start doing these circuit fit training. Maybe it's just because your wife likes them a lot and you want to do something with her. Well, you can do that now and you're not sacrificing anything actually. Whereas in the beginning, you might look at that as like sacrificing progress, right? Like, I could be in the gym banging weights and I would get more out of this. And whether or not you should be

looking at it that way is, I think it's more just a personal thing. I mean, I get it. But the nice thing about getting to the point where you're talking about is you now can focus, you can afford to, you have earned the luxury of being able to weight your personal preferences a lot more, even if it's not quote unquote, scientifically optimal, or if it is not in pursuit of any real specific goal, other than just moving your body, burning some calories and feeling good and having a good time. Yeah. You said it, man. I hope people listening were either nodding their heads in agreement, like, yes, I realize this or really opening up their heads and their hearts to, to that

possibility, especially for the new person training. Like we were saying, it is very addictive. You see so much change and progress and it's, it's like self-feeding, right? So you're like, oh no, no, I don't need any other reason other than, other than what I see on the scale or in the mirror. And I understand you've been there. I've been there. It was a good time.

But for me, the biggest thing here, I think this last year and what I've experienced is that it just, it shows you really what matters most and taking care of our bodies, our health, our wellness, our sanity, immune system, everything is so important. It always has been. And I think this year has shown us ways that we have been doing a good job of that or ways for improvement for sure. But the biggest marker for me is that the question of why does this matter? Why am I doing this? What benefit does this give me? Am I doing it for reasons that I'm very clear about, or am I doing it just because it's what I have always done?

It's because what those around me have always done or have said I should do. Why does this matter? What does this do for me personally? What does this do for the relationship with myself? Do I have a relationship with myself? Have I actually spent the time? And look, this last year, we have all been given nothing but time, whether that's an extra five minutes in the day or five hours. We have had the time to look in the mirror

for a different way now, to look in the mirror, to have those conversations instead of look at how good I look, or I'm so happy with my progress, but to actually go, why do I care about the way I look? Why do I think that this looks better or worse or the same than maybe something before? Just asking key questions solidifies the process for which we go about doing anything. It will solidify how you choose to work out. It will solidify who you choose to work out with, the foods that you reach for, how you show up in your job, and more importantly, how you show up for yourself in your life every day. So increasing the amount of intentionality. Exactly. And when you can match intention with impact, I think that is a very, very magical,

powerful place for human beings to be in and to operate out of in the world. When your intention going into something matches what actually happens, or maybe looking at it that way doesn't make sense for some people. Maybe if you look at what is the outcome, what is happening, what is the impact that is actually happening, and then try to trace it back to, well, why did I go about it? Or what was my reason or intention going into it? And if there's disconnect between either one of those, then I would encourage you to explore that more. When they are in harmony, when intention matches impact to anything you do, especially when

it comes to your training and your health and wellness, then your adherence, I promise you, I promise you, your adherence will be there. It will be there maybe for the first time. Your adherence will have a long, happy life. You will show up in a way that you maybe don't even recognize those around you don't recognize, but to the people that matter and to the people that you matter to, it will matter. And you will have meaning and intention and impact in a way that just speaks to each other. And that I think for me has been the most powerful takeaway this past year. Yeah. I think there are many criteria for good living, but two that come to mind that have

stuck with me for, since I came across them somewhere reading something probably where one, did you, so it's at the end of your life, right? Did you live your life? Well, one, did you succeed in your intentions? Did you carry out your intentions and your purposes? And two, were people happy that you lived? And that's what comes to mind listening to you. I like simple. And I think those are two powerful criteria for now looking at how we can use the time that we have, right?

So those criteria have helped me make many life decisions. Like, is this in line with my intentions? Is this part of an intention that I actually want to carry out and why? And is this going to help people? I mean, in some cases, maybe it's just helping me, but I interact with a lot of people. So I feel like this is not just me rationalizing selfish behavior, but really things that help me do better to actually do help me help people. And then there are many things that more directly help people. But that's just amusing that popped into my head. I love it, man.

I love it. And hopefully at this stage in the game, when it looks like a lot of places here in America, at least, are opening back up or getting back to that everybody's favorite word, right? Normal. Well, the new normal, we're not going backwards, right? We are who we are now. I wish. I wish we could go back to pre-COVID living, but I'm not a betting man, but I would not put much money on that bet. I would agree. And in a way, I'm here for it. Nobody wanted this. Nobody asked for it, but it is what it is. And we have to control the controllables, right? So at this point, a year of anyone living, acting, thinking, training, eating differently, you have established new habits. You have kept

some from before you have developed new ones, or maybe just fine-tuned, but I would really challenge anybody to say otherwise that, yep, exactly who I was one year ago is the exact't hopefully improved in at least some small way that I can isolate and explain to you or to the podcast listeners, that would tell me that I need to get to work or I need to work on something different. I'm not going about my little two criteria very well. Yeah. Yeah. And look at the honest truth here. If you do something the same way, how can you ever expect a different result? So if you're going about your life the same way, driving to work the same route, operating every day the same, training the same, eating the same, thinking the same thoughts, telling yourself the same stories, adopting the same attitudes. That's it. I mean, so if you do any of these things the same way, look, I love routine. I'm a very ritualistic, habitual guy. But this past year has really shown where some of those habits serve me. But more specifically, like I said, what was the intention for them? And what am I getting out of them?

The world has changed. Life has changed. Training has changed. Life has changed. Training has changed. Jobs have changed. And whether we wanted it or not, whether we asked for it or not, whether we agree with it or not, it is what it is. And so the biggest failure here would be for us to not adapt from this, to not learn something and to not change with it for the better. Whether we like it or not, we have to accept that things are just, things are different. Totally.

And something you had mentioned earlier is something that I've also, it's just occurred to me and I think it's a valid point. I think it's useful is if nothing else, this is an opportunity to practice some mental fortitude, to practice some of the old virtues,

courage, wisdom, temperance, for example, and try to become a grittier, more resilient person. And that's something I will go to with any negative experience, really. Like one of the first things I'll always consider is what my role was in causing it, kind of like an extreme ownership type of perspective, right? So something unwanted has occurred in my life. Well, my first thought that I have conditioned myself to think is, what did I do to bring this about? And I'm willing to go pretty abstract with that. Like I'm willing to accept the extreme ownership essentially of things that there's no direct relationship, even if it's, you know, I, I probably deserved this. But if you choose to

think that you will find a way to grow, I promise you, I'm sure you have Mike, even if it's like really far detached, like you're saying, if you choose to put on that mode of thinking. To even accept the possibility, right? Like I'm willing to accept the possibility that I am ultimately responsible for this situation or circumstance or whatever because of blah. Even if it's wrong, acting as if it were true is productive. And that's enough for me. It's very practical, you know?

I read every day in a book of Stoicism, you know, the the stoic quotes, Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus. I mean, these are all concepts of life that guys hundreds, thousands of years ago had written about, journaled about. I mean, people that formed the world still struggled with the same things we do in the modern age, with all the advancements in health and technology, at the end of the day, we are still up against ourselves. We're still deeply human and human nature changes very, very slowly. Yeah. Contrary to popular belief. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Hence my skepticism toward, because just review the history of governance in general, and I think anybody can understand why I think our default position toward government should be extreme skepticism and assuming the worst, actually. But that's another discussion. But yeah, so there's that point of extreme ownership. And then I always try to remind myself when I'm experiencing some sort of unwanted situation. Oftentimes these days,

it's in relation to business. So they're always, my businesses are doing quite well, but there's always growing pains and the bigger the business, the bigger the problems actually. The bigger the machine for damn sure. And the bigger the stakes as well. So I like to remind myself that if nothing else, this situation is an opportunity to practice, talk about particularly one of these maybe stoic virtues. And I think there's value in that. I don't think that's just mental gymnastics or some sort of lame coping mechanism. I actually do think that the more instances, the more opportunities we have to not, I mean, really, because we have to embody these ideas and act in accordance with them. That's the key. It's not just thinking thoughts,

it's choosing the thoughts and choosing the attitudes and then acting accordingly. The more often we can do that, I mean, take courage, for example, the more we can express courage by facing up to fears and acting the way that we should, the more courageous we become, the more that just becomes our default mode of responding to fear. Right. And I think the same thing goes for dealing with all kinds of hardships. You said it, man, a phrase that comes to mind out of that is something that I am trying to constantly remind myself of. And that is knowing without doing is the same thing as not knowing. And that's spot on what you're talking about, but also our whole conversation here of, do you know why you're

doing what you're doing? Are you fully aware of your intention going into something? Are you aware of your process? And then are you actually taking note of what serves you, what doesn't, what fulfills you, what doesn't, and then actually doing something about it. We can listen to all the podcasts in the world. We can train eight days a week, but if we're not actually fully embodying the knowledge of that process and taking note and then applying it, then what are we doing? Yeah. Especially with self-help and self-development, it is very helpful to spend a lot more time implementing good ideas than consuming mediocre ideas. I like that, man. I like that. Yeah. Well said. Well, hey, man, this was a great discussion. I'm sure if we let it go, we could go the rest of the day finding interesting things to chitter chatter about. But let's wrap up with where people can find you and find your work, find your podcast. And if there's anything in particular new and exciting that you want people to know about that is maybe live or coming soon, definitely let them know.

Oh, I should have prepared a big launch for this interview then. Next time. Gotta leverage the launch. Exactly one year from now. But yeah, Mike, I appreciate it, man. I really do appreciate your conversations and enjoy everything you do over there at Muscle for Life and Legion Athletics. The supplements, the education,

the content is everything that I look for and that I also try to contribute out into the world. So it's great to see good people, good intentions, and good impact coming together, in my opinion. So yeah, of course, of course. The feelings are mutual. Yeah, I appreciate that. So yeah, my main thing now, like I said before, I was a clinical health coach and in the health and fitness world day in, day out for many years, I've kind of transitioned the last couple of years to just having good conversations like this and hopefully putting good information and education out there for everybody to pull and apply to their own lives. And I do that through two main platforms. That's my podcast, Ever Forward Radio, or everywhere you listen to audio,

everforwardradio.com as well. And then the gram, you know, so Instagram just at chase underscore tuning. I always try to stay engaged in there as much as possible, stay social on social media as much as possible. And it's just both places are where you can find me sharing my thoughts, what serves me and in terms of fitness, nutrition mindset. And I would love to have you join in that journey and hopefully help contribute to yours as well. Absolutely. Gentle listener. If you liked this discussion, you're going to like Chase's podcast. You can find me on it a couple of times too. Absolutely. Twice now. Actually, technically three times. When you were talking about learning from history and stuff, it reminded me last year when I kind of snapped out of the snow day, right? And I really got back to work, so to speak. Almost this time last year, it was like April, it was April 19th, 2020. I put

on this virtual summit, the Everford Summit 2020. Oh, right. One of the speakers. And you talked about how reading history can change the future and really looking at what we're going through, well, what we were going through then, but just any period in time, mankind, what we can learn from and apply right now from the past. Like you said, man, we change very, very slowly. We all kind of go through the same things in history. And so how can we- The good and the bad, unfortunately. Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, thanks again, Chase. Really appreciate it. And I look forward to the next one. Likewise. I thank you guys for listening.

All right. Well, that's it for this episode. I hope you enjoyed it and found it interesting and helpful. And if you did and you don't mind doing me a favor, please do leave a quick review on iTunes or wherever you're listening to me from in whichever app you're listening to me in because that not only convinces people that they should check out the show, it also increases search visibility and thus it helps more people find their way to me and learn how to get fitter, leaner, stronger, healthier, and happier as well. And of course, if you want to be notified when the next episode goes

live, then simply subscribe to the podcast and you won't miss out on any new stuff. And if you didn't like something about the show, please do shoot me an email at mike at muscleforlife.com, just muscle, F-O-R, life.com, and share your thoughts on how I can do this better. I read everything myself, and I'm always looking for constructive feedback, even if it is criticism. I'm open to it. And of course, you can email me if you have positive feedback as well, or if you have questions really relating to anything that you think I could help you with, definitely send me an email. That is the best way to get ahold of me, mikeatmusclefullife.com.

And that's it. Thanks again for listening to this episode. And I hope to hear from you soon.