Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Chase Chewning on Transforming Tragedy Into Triumph

Episode Date: March 20, 2020

Chase Chewning hasn’t had an easy time of it. When he was still a teenager, he lost his father to Lou Gehrig’s disease. A few years later while he was in the army, he got seriously injured, requiring multiple surgeries, and got medically discharged. Chase’s life was in shambles. His body was broken, his mind was muddled, and his spirit was shattered. He had no money, no job, and no purpose. What he did have, though, was a lesson his father taught him—one he shares in our interview—that he used to emerge from this dark period and regain his physical and emotional strength, build a popular podcast and following online, and launch successful coaching and media consulting businesses that allow him to make a living doing work he loves and believes deeply in. In this episode, Chase shares his story, including . . . The transformative “gift” that his late father gave him How he ended up getting discharged from the army The experience of going “all in” on entrepreneurship and quitting a stable career How to stand out in a saturated field like the fitness industry How to find your passion And more . . . So, if you like inspiring stories and want to learn how Chase used tragedy to ignite a motivational fire under his own butt, listen to this episode. 5:33 - Why did you move to Los Angeles? 7:27 - What does Ever Forward mean and why did you choose that as your brand? 11:19 - How long ago was it when you discovered Ever Forward? 14:19 - Was your major injury the beginning of the descent? 19:49 - How did you turn that experience into where you’re at today? 23:34 - How did you start doing your podcast and brand? 39:23 - Was transitioning from coaching to podcast another leap you had to make? 49:12 - How do you find your passion? Should I turn my passion into my career? --- Mentioned on The Show: Chase's Podcast: https://chasechewning.com/radio Chase's Website: https://chasechewning.com/ Chase's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chase_chewning/ Shop Legion Supplements Here: https://legionathletics.com/shop/ --- Want to get my best advice on how to gain muscle and strength and lose fat faster? Sign up for my free newsletter! Click here: https://www.legionathletics.com/signup/

Hello and welcome to another episode of Muscle for Life, a quarantine stream we could call it. I'm Mike Matthews, recording this from home, actually recording this from in my infrared sauna because there aren't many places in my house that have good acoustics, but this seems to be working pretty well. So here we are. And in this episode, I interview Chase Tuning, who has not had an easy time of it. I guess that's one way of putting it. You see, when Chase was a teenager, he lost his dad to Lou Gehrig's disease. And as you can imagine, that impacted him greatly and negatively, of course. And then a few years later, Chase was in the army and during a combat exercise, a drill, he was seriously injured. He required multiple surgeries and then he got medically discharged and his life was in shambles. His body was broken. He couldn't

even walk in the beginning and his mind was muddled. His spirit was shattered. He couldn't even walk in the beginning. And his mind was muddled. His spirit was shattered. He had no money. He had no job. He had no purpose. And he did have one thing, though. He had a lesson his father had taught him, and one that he shares in this interview. And Chase used that lesson to emerge from this very dark period and not only regain his physical and his emotional strength, but also build a popular podcast and a following online and then launch successful

coaching and media consulting businesses that now allow him to make a living doing work that he loves and that he believes very deeply in. And this episode is Chase's story. He goes into all the details, like this transformative gift that his father gave him, how he ended up getting discharged from the army, what exactly happened to him, and why he went into the army in the first place. It was almost suicidal in essence, why he joined up. He also talks about his experience of going all in on entrepreneurship and quitting a stable career, a well-paying job that he had and how he has gone about standing out in a very saturated field, you know, the fitness industry, and then also the business entrepreneurial

space. the fitness industry, and then also the business entrepreneurial space, how he went about finding his passion and how you may be able to as well, the insights you can glean from his story to help you find more meaning in your work and in your life and more. Those are just a few of the things that we talk about. So the bottom line is if you like to hear about other people's inspiring and motivational stories, turning tragedy into triumph, I think you're going to enjoy the chat that I had with Chase. Now, before we get to the show, if you like what I'm doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, and if you want to help me help more people get into the best shape of their lives, please do consider supporting my sports nutrition company, Legion Athletics, which produces 100% natural evidence-based health and fitness supplements, including protein powders and protein bars, pre-workout and post-workout supplements, fat burners, multivitamins, joint support, and more. Every ingredient and dose in every product of mine

is backed by peer-reviewed scientific research. Every formulation is 100% transparent, no proprietary blends, and everything is naturally sweetened and flavored. To check it out, just head over to legionathletics.com. And just to show how much I appreciate my podcast peeps, use the coupon code MFL at checkout, and you will save 20% on your entire order if it is your first purchase with us. And if it is not your first purchase, then you will get double reward points on your entire order, which is essentially getting 10% cash back in rewards points. So again, that URL is legionathletics.com. And if you appreciate my work and if you want to see more of it, please do consider supporting me so I can keep doing what I love, like producing podcasts like this. Chase, we made it happen finally after the back and forth of, I think it was like a

couple months for this to finally come to fruition. Yeah, man. And it's funny timing, you know, where you are geographically, where I am geographically, but we were neighbors for a long time and I had no idea. I lived in DC for a while, man. And you're just right up there north of me. Yeah. You said a year and a half ago you moved to LA. We moved to Southern California, September, 2018. We started off down in like Orange County Laguna. And then I've been officially up here in Los Angeles for over a year now. But yeah, before that I was in DC for about three, almost four years. I'm a Virginia native. So East coast through and through for sure. But I just, I decided to sip the Kool-Aid and move out West, man. Now you're in the Mecca of clown world. A lot of Meccas out here, clown world, in the mecca of clown world a lot of meccas out here clown world

supposedly the mecca of bodybuilding where they charge you thousands of dollars for a day pass it just gets ridiculous wait what i mean well not literally but you know the gold's gym out here in venice the mecca right every time i've gone man the day passes just keep going up now it's 55 for a day pass and if you want to film they've really cracked down you have to get like permits and apply and i think a filming right is like 200 bucks or some shit. It's ridiculous. They've really learned what they can capitalize on. Exploiting the influencers. Oh my God. Yeah.

That's funny. So why LA? So predominantly it was for my wife. She is a nurse and she was looking to further her education. And so she was looking at a couple nurse practitioner programs. And so we both went to undergrad at Virginia Commonwealth University there in Richmond, Virginia, and they have a great program. She was looking there. She was looking at UT Austin and then USC kind of came recruiting for her, to be honest. And they just had a great offer. Her and I both love California. We'd always wanted to just move out, test it out. I lived here for a little while. My first duty station in the army was Monterey up north. So I enjoyed it. And it was an easy yes for me. You know, she wanted to pursue her education. She got accepted into USC. And for me and what I do, you know, full-time entrepreneur, self-employed thing, it was an easy yes for me, you know, being in the health and wellness space. I was like, yeah, sure. I could go to LA and, you know, tap into the network there and see what I can do. Yeah. How has that gone? No complaints, man. No complaints. A lot of interesting cats out here to say the least.

But when I really look at. By that, you mean pedophiles. I understand. Hey, you know, whatever floats your boat, I guess. Yeah. That's how it works these days, right? Whatever makes you happy. Yeah. If you're happy, I'm happy. Let's just all be happy together, but just don't touch me, okay? But yeah, man, it's been good. No real complaints. Like I said, I moved out here with the intention of just going deeper on my social media platforms, going deeper on the podcast. And it really had a great ROI. I got tapped into a really cool network of people would meet one person introduced me to another and just transformed my

day to day living. It transformed how I do my show. Now it's really gone to a big in person experience. And there are a lot of really fucking weirdos out here. But also just like there are a lot of really good people. And it just takes it's taken me a little while to filter down into the good community. But it's treated me very well, man. I can't complain. That's great. And so speaking about your podcast and your brand, so Ever Forward, why that? What does that mean? Yeah, really good question. Actually, kind of funny timing. Last week, January 22nd, by the time we're recording this, it's the week after, was the 15-year memorial of my dad passing away. And that's significant because it was only

through that loss. He died from a terminal illness, Lou Gehrig's disease. It was only through losing him that we really learned and embodied and kind of adopted this belief system of ever forward, ever forward. It was something that he had said and instilled in us his entire life. As kids growing up, we would hear this from our dad and just think it's a way for our parents to be like, hey, don't be a fuck up. Here's something you can kind of use as a guide, a family catchphrase, whatever. And he actually picked it up from his time in the army. It's a unit creed, basically. And his first duty station out of the 116th Infantry Regiment goes all the way back to like American Revolutionary Days, which is really cool, in my opinion, was ever forward.

So he picked it up from his time in the Army, instilled it in us growing up as kids. And then he truly lived it and embodied it. I don't know if you're familiar at all with Lou Gehrig's disease, but it's probably one of the cruelest diseases I've ever witnessed. You just literally watch a person completely wither away. They die. They slowly and painfully, just from the inside out, they atrophy. They lose the ability to walk and talk. And the cruel part is what we know of the disease, they're very much still there mentally. And so they become a prisoner in their own body. And to go through this for about 18 months, his diagnosis to when he passed was about

18 months. I never once saw that son of a gun complain or ask why me, or even just seem like he's having a bad day at all. Almost to the point I'm like, why? Like, what's wrong with you? It's pissing me off. Like, you know, be angry, dad. Come on, man. Especially it probably made you reflect a little bit on the stuff that maybe you complained your wife about and you start to like, oh my God, you think your dad and then you're like, how does this even work? You know, I can't find the remote and I'm already getting mad. Yeah. The smallest life inconveniences turned into nothing when, you know, you look over or I would go home on leave and visit him every time I could. And I was in the army at that time myself. And it's just this guy,

he lost the ability to walk, talk, and he was just this spitfire, this energy, just epicenter of my hometown. And he just completely lost that to an extent. I mean, you could always just see it in his eyes that he was there and he was just totally accepting of what was going on, which I don't think is anything I will fully ever truly understand. But that experience, as shitty as it was and horrible as it was, it taught us what it meant to live a life ever forward. We truly got to witness firsthand this phrase that he had just said for years and years and years. And so, you know, that sucked a lot. I buried my father at 19 years old, and then I had to go back to my

contract with Uncle Sam. I enlisted for about six years and wound up actually having to get out too, which might get into my story. I got pretty significantly injured, got medically discharged. I spent about 10 years, man, just not dealing with it. Just my mental health was shot to shit. My physical health was shot to shit. I was learning how to walk again. And just I spent about 10 years ignoring this lesson that my dad had given me and my family. And then all this shit just came to a head and kind of fell to my knees in a lot of ways in my life and just had to go back and revisit that dark time and realize realize there was this huge gift in it, this huge message that I was just not honoring. And once I kind of straightened myself out and paid attention to this message, this legacy, it was the most natural thing in the world to introduce it as a brand and to just make it my daily mantra, man.

And how long ago was that? So it all kind of came to a pinnacle around 2015. Yeah. So about going on five years ago, I was having a lot of relationship problems. I was really stagnant in my job. I was kind of just idling in a lot of areas in life and some things and people and sequences in my life, I began to realize that I was just really taking advantage of, or rather taking for granted. And a lot of those things kind of fell through and I was really left alone. When you think your life is going one way, but then all of a sudden life takes you another way, puts you in check really quick. So I wound up just really going back to this belief system, going back to these two words and going back and trying to just recreate my life because in a lot of areas, it just fell through. It actually started first with my

brother. He introduced it as a brand, Ever Forward Apparel. Yeah, I was going to ask about that. First. Yeah. So he kicked it off. It was something we had always talked about wanting to introduce and share to the world, but it's a delicate thing. Something so close to home, sharing with the world and we're both kind of dabbling with the whole social media thing. It's delicate, it's personal. And he took the bold move of sharing it first as ever forward apparel and sharing the backstory behind it. And I was blown away at the positive feedback that his audience was giving him on. And this time he was really up and coming in YouTube and, you know, he still is, you know, YouTube fitness, lifestyle stuff is pretty much what he does now. So I was like, wow, okay, cool. And so that was a great reminder of what I was not honoring. He was doing his part to honor my father in this message. What the fuck was I doing? I was just wallowing, really. through my shit, fixed my relationships, fixed my job, fixed myself, did a lot of the self-work.

I realized that I wanted to share my experience with it. I wanted to share the personal development. I wanted to share the gym journey, the mental health journey, and what it means to live a life ever forward in all these areas. And so I'll never forget, man, I was leaving my apartment in DC, driving to, I was a health coach at this time at one of our offices up in Lansdowne. And that stretch of the highway sucks, minimum 45 minutes. I've sat there for like two and a half hours before. I stumbled across this thing called a podcast and it was health and fitness. And I was like, holy shit, man, this is amazing. I would go to my job and every client, every patient that I saw there, I could help in a better way. I could help with more immediate, tangible information, more up-to-date information. And I was like, this is amazing. So I got hooked on the podcast thing. And then one day someone said, Hey, wow, you had a really good radio voice,

which was something I kind of heard ever since my balls dropped in puberty hit, but radio was never really super appealing to me. But I was like, Hey, you know, what if I did this podcast thing? I can learn, definitely keep learning by listening to a podcast. But what if I'm the one asking the questions? What if I'm the one doing the research on these people and then sharing it out? And then it just manifested and snowballed into a way for me to kind of weave in my own story with these guests. And yeah, man, here we are, hell, going into our fourth year on the show.

Let's go back to when you were injured. And that sounded like kind of like the beginning of the descent, so to speak, right? Yeah. I mean, long story short, well, I'll say medium story because I'll give a little bit of detail so it makes sense. When my dad passed away, I did not deal with it. In a lot of ways, I say, I don't know if this is an excuse or this is just what it was. I didn't have the ability. I didn't have the luxury to process that. I didn't have the luxury of grief and to take time off. I was a fucking soldier. Like I had to go back to the army and continue my job, continue my training,

continue my mission. As if nothing had happened. Exactly. Yeah. And so I was like, cool. You know, they gave me 30 days emergency leave, which I was super grateful for. I got to spend literally, I was there with my dad, you know, his last hours of being alive. But then a week later, I'm sent back to army chase. And years passed and I realized I was just stuffing it down, stuffing it down. And my mental health suffered a lot, man. I'll never say that I was suicidal, but I just got to a point because my father was so close to me and he meant so much to me. And this concept of continuing on military service in his honor and his father and his father and so on and so forth. I was like, what's the point? Like I've lost it all. So I tried to volunteer for some deployments because I did not want to come back alive. I was like, you know what? The army just upped their life insurance policy. It

was like $400,000. I think, you know, in my mind and my selfish coward mindset back then, I thought taking care of my family meant a big fat payday for them. And that's not at all what they wanted. They just lost their father, Chase. They just lost a brother, a son, whatever. So I tried to deploy. I was in the intelligence field. I was a Russian linguist actually. So I was trying any way I could to change jobs or use my skillset in a different way and get sent over there as we call it, because that was a great opportunity for me to not come back alive. And it didn't happen for one application that was in the right rank. So, okay, cool. So if I get promoted and I've worked my ass

off, you're telling me then I have a higher chance of being deployed and higher chance of not coming back alive. Cool. So I did that. Put my nose to the grindstone. I got promoted, worked my ass off. Things were looking promising. I was out playing war games, getting prepared for an opportunity to deploy man plans and God laughs. The world, the universe, my dad, whatever you want to believe or think had different plans for me. They knew that that was not the right path for me. So I was leading an ambush, playing war games, basically. And exactly what happened is honestly a big blur still. I was leading an ambush with my squad. And next thing I know, I hear and feel this loud pop and I go falling to the ground. I'm screaming in pain. And all of a sudden, just like my entire like

midsection down is just, I'm like, shit, like what happened? Like, am I hit? I was like yelling out like who the fuck put a live round in here? This is supposed to be, you know, we're not doing a live fire exercise here. You know, these are just blanks. And turns out what happened was I tore my hamstring. That was the pop that I felt and heard. And my back, my L4 and L5 vertebrae basically decided to go one way and the rest of my body went another way and just extreme injuries to my low back and my hips and my hamstring. And so there goes my dream of being deployed. I got pulled from that roster very quickly, got completely transplanted to an entirely new base, an entirely new unit of just broken soldiers to either get healed and get sent back or you get kicked out of the army. And so things got way worse for me,

man. I actually wound up having both of my hips completely reconstructed. I've got about 12, 13 inch scars on both of my quads where they did a femoral reconstruction, remove my femurs, reshape them, put them back in. I've got two rods and pins in either hip and they would do one side and then months of rehab, they would literally teach me how to walk again. And the second that I could, hey, cool, Sergeant tuning, great. You're good enough now. We're going to go back and do the other side. So it would just cut me open, heal, cut me open, heal for about a year and a half. And then my entire plan to stay in the military was completely yanked out from underneath me because like, hey, you're broken. You're not good enough to be a soldier anymore.

We're actually, we're kicking you out. You're medically discharged. In fact, your injuries are so bad and you are so, this is how I kind of interpreted it. You are so physically worthless now. We are medically retiring you. So with the wheelchair and my cane, with my wheelchair strapped to the roof of my car and my cane in the back seat, I drove off base July 28th, 2009 and drove home to Virginia to kind of rebuild and restart my life, man. That's a really tough position to be in. I mean, I don't have to tell you that, but I'm just like, wow. I'm trying to imagine if I were in that position because you were already in a bad place with your previous plan, obviously. You look back at that. But now, it was almost like

a cruel joke that was played on you because now you can't even kill yourself honorably and support your family. And that's how you're looking at it. Then now you're actually just a complete burden to them, I guess. I mean, who else is going to even help you or take care of you? And now what? Started off thinking that I was going to do this thing, this cowardly thing to take care of my family. And now, yeah, absolutely right. I mean, hell, man, I remember when I was getting out, I think I came home to visit one time before they actually med boarded me out. I kind of wanted to go to school. And so I was looking at VCU and I actually had to have my, I was a 23 year old kid, man. I had to have

my mom meet me to go on a tour of campus because I physically couldn't walk around myself. I was hobbling around on a cane and I had to have my mom escort me around just like this broken kid. It sucked, man. So where did it go from there? How did you turn that into an inspiration for action and something that has now led you to obviously a much better place in every way? Yeah, well, I can tell you, I think one of the things that I definitely did right, whether this was intentional or not, a big part of the disconnect that I felt from my family when my dad was sick and stuff was literally a disconnect. Geographically speaking, I just wanted to be there with my family. And quick kind of backstory,

once I found out he was sick and terminal, I actually was trying to drop paperwork because if you can prove you have a hardship back home, the military will often let you out of your contract. I was like, sweet, I can get out of this, go home. Well, my dad, true to character, he was like, fuck that shit. He was like, hell no. With his last days of being able to walk and talk, he flew out to California. He spent four days literally convincing me to not do this, to not stop my life before it even starts because of whatever is going on with his. He's like, your family will be there, but Chase, ever forward, man, you can't let my burden fall on you. This is not fair. So you have so much to live for. So he spent about four days really just

convincing me to stay in. So fast forward, when I was getting out, I just wanted to be with my family. And so again, intentional or not, I went home. I didn't know what I was going to do, but being there was a great inspiration. And it was right around the same time my younger brother, we're four years apart, he was starting school. And I think it was my mom who was like, oh my God, it'd be so cute if my boys could like go to college together and go to graduation together. It'd be easy planning.

I was like, cool. Okay. So I was going back to Richmond, Virginia anyways, and he was starting college and I had all these education benefits. And I was like, you know, screw it. Why not? I'd rather go to school now because odds are if I don't, who knows, maybe I never will. And I would like to continue my education. And so this was about the time, like I said, I was still on a cane, still hobbling around,

but I was getting a little bit of taste. It's like when you're, you know, you get those newbie gains in the gym, right? You kind of get a small taste of like, wow, the body is really fucking cool. It's really cool what it can do and overcome. And I was getting a little bit of sense of that. And so I actually enrolled in their exercise science program. Oddly enough, you know, this guy who just got completely broken physically, mentally, emotionally is now going to school for the human body. Like

what? So yeah, it was just baffling to me what was possible. And this was right around, I kind of became really, really curious of, you know, organic shit and green and health and wellness. And, you know, I had a lot of downtime on my hands, man. That last year and a half, all I did was just living on my couch and rehabbing. So I read, and I watched videos, and I listened, and I did what I could here and there to take care of myself. I was like, well, imagine if I actually go study it. Anatomy, physiology, nutrition, all this stuff. And then I realized, I think about my second year, maybe my third year through, I actually really enjoy this more so just for the learning of my own body and my own self, but you can work in this industry. And so I

realized that I actually wanted to do something with it. And yeah, so I graduated with my bachelor's in exercise science, then went on to like, I mean, hell you name it in any job in the fitness space. I mean, I've done it health coach, personal trainer, ran boot camps, worked in gyms, corporate wellness, you know, up until, you know, my last real job, you know, I was the wellness director for this concierge medical practice up and down the East Coast where we would work hand in hand with patients, you know, with their primary care provider. And then we were the trainers and the exercise physiologists. We would do weight loss programs, personal training, body composition analysis, all these different kind of cool things embodying complementary alternative medicine, fitness and nutrition and primary care, which, again, was perfect for me because that was very much where I was in my own journey of recovery. And then from there, how did you come into what you're doing now and what were some of the struggles?

I'm sure it wasn't just, oh, I think I'll do a podcast. Oh, look at that. I can now make a living at this. Oh, well, yeah, yeah, it was. What are you talking about? Yeah, I just hit record and I got all the sponsors. Oh, okay, good. That's a great story. That's what people want to hear. I have no idea. I just got really lucky and I said the right things, I guess, and now I'm rich. I don't know. I mean, whatever. Far, far from it, man. I get asked fairly often from people who either are considering getting into the fitness industry or are in it and are just asking for advice.

And it is highly competitive. It's very hard to stand out. I think that's more true now than ever before, probably, at least in the life. I've been in this bracket for, I don't know, seven years now, seven or eight years. And I would say a bit of my success is definitely, I would attribute it to timing, which you could say is just a matter of luck getting in a little bit early before things got very noisy. And so you though are newer to this. So I'm curious, how did that process go? Yeah. Well, first and foremost, I just wanna give you a shout out, man.

I can tell you when I was back in my mom's bedroom, right after I got out of the army, I'm back a student and dependent upon my family in a lot of ways. One of the books that I read in my journey, my curious journey of the health and fitness world was Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, Man. It's so wild now that here we are talking to each other.

So to that, I say thank you because without you even knowing it, you were a part of my journey. You were a part of me stopping feeling sorry for myself and really just realizing the human potential. So that's on you, man. I appreciate you for that. That's cool, man. I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. That's what inspired me to write the book in the first place, that first edition. And now I've gone through quite a few iterations and I recently kind of rewrote it from scratch actually and released a new third edition, but it's pretty cool what you can do with, it's not just books, but it could be articles, it could be podcasts with content that lives on and it really just kind of take on a life of its own. And I really liked that about this line of work. I'm sure you do too.

Oh, absolutely. And kind of to answer your question before was, you know, when we're doing something, we're creating the things that are perennial, the content that is perennial, the people that are going to be here forever are the ones that do things, you know, and again, to your point of, you know, getting constantly asked people wanting to get started in the space. The number one thing I can tell you is, you know, especially for me making it a business is the more time you spend on getting clarity around who you are creating and why, who you're creating this content for, you know, your ideal

client, your ideal audience member, you will be a lot more successful. And in my experience, personally, professionally, and how I help others as well is it's, in my opinion, it's always been a former version of myself. It's always, I need to write this. I need to film this. I need to record this. I need to do whatever because Chase six months ago, six years ago, he needed to hear this. He needed this message. And I guarantee you right now, there is someone else that is in the exact same place I was that if I can help just lighten the load, if I can help educate and empower in the smallest way, I have to be a part of that. And so in kind of keeping in mind of this concept of legacy and carrying on my father's message and just tethering myself to a belief system to help pull me along, I needed that. I recognized that, okay, in my job, I want to get

better. How can I get better? Well, I can't go to conferences and expos every weekend. I can't do all of these things right now, but I can learn, right? I can read a book. I can listen to an audio book. I can listen to a podcast. And so I absorb. And then, like I said, I wanted to do more. So I decided to create my own and I had no intention. I didn't even know that podcasting was like a full-time thing. I only saw a few people. This is back, you know, 2015, 16, doing it full-time. And I had no intention of ever doing it to the scale that I am now. It was just a way for me to get better at my job.

It was a way for me to help make better the lives of the people that I was showing up for every day. And then when I was in school, just learning the human body, I really, really enjoyed it. And it became this passion. It became this thing that I didn't need to do, but I had to do, that I wanted to do. And it gave me so much fulfillment. And I give total recognition where I was in this time and age, when my brother, when his social media was growing, when I was kind of dabbling with YouTube and all this stuff. And the whole social media content creator thing was very, very new. It was a very, very small net community then. And luckily,

we were tapped into that. So hell, my very first guest on the show was Christian Guzman. And if anyone knows, I mean, he's like the king YouTube fitness guy and millions of followers and subscribers and all this shit. And so I had access to a lot of people that were already my friends. And well, first of all, I had to convince them, hey, will you come on my podcast? And they're like, what the hell is a podcast? Well, it's like a YouTube video, but we're just going to do audio only. OK, cool, cool, cool. So I had access to some really, really cool, unique people.

And then honestly, I just would reach out. I would contact authors and New York Times bestsellers and YouTubers and all these people and just say, hey, this is how you have helped me. Here's how I want to take this message, really get down to a finite point and just share your story and hopefully share and help others. And everybody was on board. And then it just grew organically and steam began to develop and it made me better at my job. Then I realized a couple of years into it with a lot of other red tape bullshit at my last job, you know, my fulfillment was quickly being pulled out of that because of like the business side of things and the job side of things, it was pulling away my fulfillment, my passion for showing up for the people that needed it most, my patients,

my clients. And I was like, this isn't fair. This isn't right. And so I really just took a hard look in the mirror of what do I want to do? What do I want to do that's going to keep making me happy? And it all came back to Everford. It all came back to look at this gift that I was given, that my family was given. Look at the feedback that people are telling us.

And this is just dipping one toe in. Imagine if I fucking dove head first and it was the scariest decision of my life. It was a decision that my wife didn't take too well when I told her, hey, I gave my notice. I'm gonna be an influencer. Like you'll be hearing from my lawyer. She's like, you fucking what?

Yeah, it didn't go over quite that well because in total my lawyer. She's like, you fucking what? Yeah. It didn't go over quite that well because in total honesty, we'd agree like, Hey, let's take it much more seriously for like six months. Let's see what you can do with it. Well, after about 60 days, I, you know, reached my financial goals. I reached all these goals of, you know, whatever. And I just couldn't do the job anymore. So December, 2017, I gave my notice. I was like, I'm out guys. Sorry. And then officially, yeah, I'd already launched a podcast at that point. So January 22nd, 2017, the memorial of my dad's passing, we try to do everything with meaning here was a year in with that. And we were growing one episode a week. Then I did two episodes a week

and we were getting all these downloads and all this awareness. And I just realized that, hey, I again have been given a gift that it would be the biggest slap in the face to my father. It would be the biggest disgrace to my own potential to not go deeper here when people are telling me they need and want more. In the same way that it fulfilled me, in the same way that it cured and healed and was therapy for my brain and my body and my soul. It was the same thing for so many other people, man. So I just, I took that on. I took that next mission,

army chase, stepping up to the plate again. Hey, what are my orders? What do I need to do? How do I need to execute it? And I just went all in, man. And yeah, here we are about three years later, almost not homeless yet. Knock on wood. You're in the land of the homeless though. So, you know. Yeah, seriously. Well, in LA, I play this game where I'm out in public and I ask myself, okay, are they homeless or multimillionaire? Homeless or multimillionaire? Because honestly, it's hard to tell the difference here. It depends where fashion trends are at any given point, you know?

Seriously. Yeah. What's trending right now? What's in? Yeah. Hey, if you like what I am doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, and if you want to Yeah. 100% natural evidence-based health and fitness supplements, including protein powders and bars, pre-workout and post-workout supplements, fat burners, multivitamins, joint support, and more. Every ingredient and every dose in every product is backed by peer-reviewed scientific research.

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I don't know if it occurred to you, but also what was the worst case scenario here? Okay. So if you quit your job, you had an obviously, you had a skillset, you had commercial value. This is a useful exercise I go through sometimes, particularly when I'm looking at, at this point, I'm not taking on, I'm not trying to start any new businesses, but it'd be more projects like, okay, that are going to be significant, writing a new book or some big marketing initiative, significant in terms of time or money or both, right? And look at what's the worst case scenario. Just am I okay with that? Because oftentimes if that is not clearly delineated.

And then also looking at what's the probability of a worst case scenario. And should I even worry about it? If it's very, very unlikely. Then I think of a thinking fast and slow. Like Konami talks about this. And it's true. We tend to catastrophize. We tend to take low probabilities of very bad things happening. And blow them up into more than they really are in our minds.

So I'll often make sure that I've considered what's the worst case scenario of whatever it is I'm about to do. And that often makes decisions pretty easy to make. So if it's with my supplement company Legion, if we want to try a new marketing endeavor, a new promotional endeavor, what's the worst case scenario? I lose 50 grand, straight up zero sales, 50 grand. Am I okay with that? Yeah, because I think it's very unlikely. And even if it happens, my life goes on. It doesn't really matter. I'm not happy, but it doesn't change anything in terms of the day-to-day operations. And then what is more likely to happen? I think based on all this other experience that I have, I think that it's most likely to do all right. And just that type of thinking often helps me not even get on the fence in the first place and not stick on this disaster that almost certainly will not happen. And even if it were to happen, it's not really a disaster. Does that resonate with you at all? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'll tell you, I knew I wanted to do this, but the, the scary part of going all in on yourself is that, you

know, Hey, am I going to burn the boats or am I going to build a safety net as well? And where I was in my profession, you know, I had years of experience. I got my master's the certification. I was this director level. And so I knew on paper, okay, cool, Chase, if you fail, if you suck really, really bad, you can't make this happen. Your radio voice just doesn't cut it. It's not enough. I had kind of done all these things on the back end that on paper, professionally, I felt confident that, all right, cool, Chase, all right, you sucked, you tried, not going to happen, especially not as a married man. So I was like, if I need to, I could go get a job. I'm very, very qualified. I've got great experience. And I didn't leave my job burning every bridge.

It was a little bit of friction here and there. But yeah, I've had that happen over the years. A couple guys leave, not because there were any problems. It's just, they found something else they really wanted to do and they're still doing it. And I totally understood. And I was totally supportive of that because ultimately I want to see people do well. I want to see people flourish. And if they really feel strongly drawn towards something else where they go, you know what, this is really going to be for me. I get it because if I were them, I would do the same thing. Oh, sure. Absolutely. I think we would be the most selfish assholes in the world if we ever kept people from their

fulfillment, especially in the health and fitness and wellness space. I mean, that's what we're all after, right? We want to feel our best, look our best, do our best, you know, be our best every way, shape and form. So you have to support those people when they're in pursuit of their fulfillment. I agree. So yeah, I kind of felt like if I crash and burn, at least I, you know, on the backend, I have a great resume. I could definitely go out and get a job. And honestly, you know, actually at the time, man, the podcast wasn't even the thing that I was going in on the most. So I, we launched ever forward radio and about that summer, I started doing online coaching. I started training people in my apartment buildings in DC. And like I said,

some outdoor bootcamp stuff and began to take on some online clients. And so I created Ever Forward Coach. Hell, we even came out with our own coaching app and health tracker system. And that was what I actually pivoted into first. I started taking on all these new clients and started, oh hell, actually started charging people. I started charging people for the first time and charging more. Step one. Step one, make money. Exactly. Know your value for damn sure. And that's what the big pivot was for me. I gave myself, like I said, my wife and I were talking six months. I did it after 60 days because I just tried to take on the world. And I was like, Chase, don't touch your salary. You can

only live off of what you make on your side hustle. And so my coaching business did well. It did that. It actually surpassed my salary. And I was like, screw it. I'm going all in. So I decided to double down on the podcast, do two episodes a week. That did well. I just that year started taking on a sponsor, working into like, I think two sponsors at that time, which was honestly less than a thousand dollars a month total, like salary think, two sponsors at that time, which was honestly less than $1,000 a month total. Salary commission, all that stuff was really in its infancy stage, which is great side hustle money. I mean, I'm not going to, but you try living in DC off $1,000 a month, you can't. And so my coaching business took off, the Ever Forward Coach. And that's what I did predominantly

for all of 2018. And then I realized again, going into where I am being pulled versus where I feel like I'm trying to just push myself, the podcast was it for me. I was going from in-person to online, and I just realized the best way for me to help people is to keep going deeper on the podcast. Because I can share one episode, whether it's an interview or solo, and it can now reach tens of thousands of people. There's no way in hell I can do that with one hour of my time on a coaching call. It's just not possible. So, I mean, EverForward Coach is still a thing. We no longer do just one-on-one health coaching. It's all just like B2B stuff. I do some coaching consulting for people, you know, in person, online. But yeah, so that's what I do. And then the podcast really just took off, especially when I moved to LA, turned it into a full blown show. We have a videographer that we use, you know, it's a all in person experience. And it has just been, it's the thing that if I had to do every day and wouldn't get paid, I would still keep doing it. So that's where my happiness is, man. And that's where, that's where life in the business has taken me. And that's where Everford Radio is today, really.

is his man. And that's where, that's where life in the business has taken me. And that's where Everford radio is today, really. And it was that transition from coaching and the podcast, another leap that you had to make, I would think it would be right. Yeah, in a way. And this is, you know, I mean, even if nothing else, but financially, because I mean, you're, you're making your money from coaching and unless your podcast already replaced that income, but it sounds like that wasn't the case. They were pretty neck and neck in terms of what, yeah. And in terms of what like sponsorships and things like that we're bringing in versus my coaching clients. And then honestly, man, welcome to the wonderful world of on today's episode of being self-employed last year, I began to be that person that people came to, Hey, how do you do this? What Mike should I get? I'm thinking about starting a podcast.

How did you get this guest? How did you get a sponsor? And just over and over and over and over again. And I flat out had one person ask, Oh, well, okay, cool. Well, if I just wanted you to do it, like how much do you charge? I was like, well, what do you mean? Well, if I wanted you to make my show, if I wanted you to launch my podcast and do it and all this stuff, I was like, Oh shit, I didn't even think about that. Cha-ching light light bulb. Hey, here's another revenue stream. So then it shifted into kind of like podcast coaching, podcast consulting, just being years ahead of other people in anything. If you're one step in front of someone, they're going to have a question about how you got there. So I began to be the person that people came to with questions. And then I just realized that I

could monetize it. And so last year we launched a full blown production and consulting company. So we now have about, I believe seven or eight shows that we either completely launched from scratch or we just stepped in, you know, Hey, let's just optimize things here and there. Or we just do consulting, whether it's, you know, some strategic guest referrals, introduction of sponsors, making your show better. You know, how do you align a podcast with a current business model? How do you make it a new business model? And just how do you make it the best damn audio experience possible while staying true to your ideal audience member, your ideal client? Yeah, that was a big new endeavor last year for sure. That's smart. It also gives you opportunities

for cross promotion just naturally. Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, I've been doing it, like I said, all of 2019 and it took me a year to really, really take a step back and detach and look at the big, big picture here. And I'm even more excited for what's possible with my show and every show under our umbrella in production and consulting services, because we're all going to succeed. This rising tide is coming in and all these ships are going out, man. I like it. Just talking with just talking with you makes me think of just stuck in my head as a useful piece of information. That is that every problem has a solution, every problem, especially, especially the problems that we run into in our little lives that we lead. And I don't mean that

derogatorily toward you or listeners. I include myself in that, like in the scheme of things, we do what we do, but the problems that we run into, every single one has a solution. Everything is figureoutable. We're not trying to figure out how to tap into the cosmic rays of the universe that Tesla alluded to. We're just trying to figure out how to live better lives. You know what I mean? Space blows my mind. That's a whole other hobby. That's another show. But my point is everything is figureoutable. And sometimes the solution isn't what we want. Sometimes we don't like the solution, but it is a solution. It really comes down to, are we going to do what it takes to solve the problem or not? I just thought of that,

just what you're talking about, starting a production company where whether income was a quote unquote problem or not, you always need to grow it and you need to grow your business. And okay, so you're thinking, I'm going to scale down my coaching. I don't want to just lose that revenue. All right, how do I solve this? Oh, look, here's an opportunity that is in one way you can look at it. You can go, oh, well, yeah, that kind of fell in your lap. No, I don't agree with that because there are opportunities everywhere all the time in everyone's lives. It's can you spot them or not? Can you see that it's an opportunity? In this case, it was kind of a whisper. This wasn't, in my opinion, something that stood out

as like, here, Chase, have a bunch of free money. How about that? You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm still waiting for that free money, man. Don't worry, dude. Bernie's coming, man. You're going to get it. That's spot on, man. I mean, I can tell you that exactly in like the entrepreneur space. That's exactly right. And just being a human, that's exactly right. And that's a big part of, I mean, life is an IQ test in many ways. Life is a never ending string of problems that you need to solve. And I really do think that starting with that assumption, no matter what you're facing, and I haven't gone through hardships like you have, so I can't pretend that I have, but you've had your own

for sure. No doubt, man. I've had to figure out problems. And my initial assumption with any problem I'm faced with is immediately this can be solved. There is a way to fix it. I just have to find it. And there's not just one way often. There are many ways to fix problems. I have to find one that I think will work well, and I have to do it. Even if I don't like doing it, even if it involves more work, then maybe I'd want to put into it or more money or whatever. But the point is, the problem can be solved. So I'm not going to pretend like it can't be solved, you know? Absolutely.

be solved. So I'm not going to pretend like it can't be solved, you know? Absolutely. And that, what you just described, Mike, is exactly the process that I had to finally go through to find my calling, find my fulfillment, but ultimately face my demons. And I'm sure someone listening right now is like, yeah, that's great. You know, how do I go about solving my problem? Here's my advice to you. If you're struggling to find the gift in it, to find the solution in your problem, to find your way out, rather your way through, stop trying to figure out the problem. First, just sit down and stare at the fuck in the face and decide to not leave the room until you both are comfortable with each other. If I did not do that, I probably would still be living in fear.

I would still be getting panic attacks and anxiety attacks. Every time I would see in a movie, someone would die and that sheet would go over their head. I became, Mike, I became unsafe behind the wheel, man. I would listen. I would hear musics come on the radio. Music's, well, good words, Chase. I would hear music come on the radio and- The musical flashback. And I would swerve and I would have these out-of-body experiences, diagnosed PTSD. And I was just, I'm running from my problem. You think that you can just stuff it down, but it's a beach ball you were just holding underwater and it is going to rise to the top one day. And so when that happened and I faced my loss and I faced my grief and I faced God and I faced my inner demons and all of these

things of, you know, why me, poor me, having my little pity party, I realized I just sat down and faced my problems and faced my loss. It was the greatest thing. And don't get this twisted. I love my father and my whole family in the world, which is he was still here, but that was the greatest gift that I have ever received in my entire life. And it took me a long time to realize that him passing, him being okay with this miserable existence for 18 months was the ultimate sacrifice that he had to give his family. He had to give his sons, his daughter, so that they could live the most fulfilled life. Mike, when I tell you I wake up every day and I am just beyond thrilled that I get to hop on a call with a client,

that I get to get behind the microphone with people like yourself, and I get to live in a place like downtown Los Angeles, I am so beyond grateful in my life. It sickens me sometimes of what's going on in my world. How is this a life? How is this a job? It is only because of I decided to stop throwing the pity party and stop just complaining about the problem and just come face to face with my fears and my problem and find the solution, find the gift in there, man. And living a life ever forward is not just our catchphrase. It is not just what I say. It is not just whatever. It is the most intimate belief system I have ever felt. And it is something that has now been received by millions of people all over the world.

And it fills me with pride to know that it's not all for nothing that, you know, dad, you're living on through, through the airwaves, man, through the YouTubes, through the Instagram, through everything. And that only was possible because of that hard work of staring down that darkness. This reminds me of a Chinese fable that I've written about called We'll See. And I'll just share it. I think you'll like it. I think listeners will like it because right along these lines. So it goes like this. So a farmer had a horse. One day the horse runs away. His neighbors come and console him. I'm so sorry. This is terrible. You must be so upset. And the guy just says, we'll see. So then a few days later, his horse comes back with 20 wild horses and the guy, he gets his son and they

corral them all and his neighbors celebrate. Congratulations. Such good news. You must be so happy. And the guy says, we'll see. A few weeks later, one of the stallions kicks the guy's son, breaks his leg, right? And the neighbors are like, oh my God, that's so terrible. Such bad news. I'm so sorry. You must be so upset. The guy of course just says, we'll see. A month goes by and then the farmer's country goes to war and starts drafting a bunch of able-bodied young men to go and fight. And it's a bloody war and casualties are high, but the guy's son who didn't get drafted because of his leg is obviously okay. And then the neighbors, they can't believe it. The guy's so lucky. Congratulations. You must be so happy. And of course he just says, we'll see. I like the message in that story. And I think it's very relevant to what we've been talking about here.

That's so pertinent. I mean, yeah, just whether you think it's a blessing or you think it's a curse, just wait and see for sure. And what are you going to turn it into? Yes. I think that's worth mentioning. Absolutely, man. But one other question I wanted to ask you, I get asked about passion fairly often when

people are asking about the business related stuff, and it's particularly getting into the fitness industry, right? And should you turn your passion into a career? Or sometimes people are saying, I don't know what I'm passionate about. So how do I find that? How do I find something that I too can jump out of bed for every day? What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I'm with you. Definitely something that I see and read and hear and get asked a lot. How I will answer that as Chase here today, January 2020, is I think passion and the things that will make you jump out of bed and be honored to live for and work for are probably the things that at one point in time you didn't have or were

taken away from you. I think it's this newfound appreciation that can only be experienced through hardship, through loss, through pain, through suffering, through obstacles, through works, because that's what it was for me. And I think that's a big kind of, I'll say, semi-summary of my story and what we've been talking about today. And it was only because I know what it feels like to suffer. I know what it feels like to be in pain mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically for damn sure. I know what it means to have relationships crumble. I know what it means to get injured in the gym. And only through those sufferings can we know what we don't want in life. Therefore, we work so hard to constantly go in the other direction, not out of fear,

not out of whatever, but because we know that we are capable of more. And we know that we are capable as a community and a society of us all, like we're all going to make it, bro. If we all just decide that darkness and the suffering, it was what it was, or maybe it is what it is, but it is there to teach us and show us the way forward. And that is how I'll answer it. And so when you realize what you don't ever want to go back through again in life, I think that's the thing that will help get you out of bed every morning and be excited to show up for. That's an interesting take. My take is I haven't had the type of experience you have.

So I come at it more from just a utilitarian perspective. But what I tell people is you're not going to find a passion by just sitting and thinking about it. Yes. You can find maybe a spark of curiosity. That's how it starts. And you have to follow that. And also, you're not going to be passionate about something you're not good at. We don't like to do things that we suck at, no matter how interesting they might seem at first. We've all experienced that,

right? Where we think something sounds so cool. We're so drawn to it. Then we start doing it and we're really bad at it. And then all of a sudden we don't like it anymore. Right? And you have to be able to push through that. Again, this is my experience. And I guess what I've gleaned from reading a lot of other people's stories and that if you stick with something long enough and you get good at it, there's a very good chance you will start to become passionate about it. Even if at first it just seems mildly interesting. Now I'm not sure if my theory would work. I'd have to try it myself. Maybe see if I could at least, it just seems mildly interesting. Now, I'm not sure if my theory would work. I'd have to try it myself, maybe see if I could at least make it work on myself. If there's something that I

have no interest in, like for example, the financial side of business, I have to be financially literate and I have to know certain things to run my businesses, but it's not an area that I'm really interested in. I read maybe three or four financial books a year, whether it's personal or business finance. I read a lot more about other things I'm interested in. So it'd be maybe hard for me to ever become passionate about the work that the guy who handles all of my business finances, the work he does, which he loves. He has all of his systems and he has insane spreadsheets and we're setting up, what do they call it? ERP system. He's all excited about. I don't know if that could ever be me because I have zero curiosity. I mean, I have a hard time maybe even generating curiosity about it because it seems so fucking boring to me. But there are

many other things that I would go, oh, that sounds kind of interesting. And so that's my advice to people who are like, fuck, I don't even know. How do I, I'm not anywhere even close to passionate about anything. So what do I do? And that's usually what I say is, okay, are you at least curious about something? Okay, now go do that. And going back to your story, listen to podcasts, read books, learn, apply, start getting good at whatever this activity is, and then see, is this, are you still just kind of in mild interest about it? Or are you now getting, feeling some enthusiasm? Are you looking forward to it?

Are you starting to think about it, you know, when you're not doing it and that's what you're looking for. You're just looking for that wave to build so you can just ride it. Oh my God. Yeah. And I can tell you one thing I'll kind of say to piggyback off of that. When, you know, like I said last year, so shifted into just doing like B2B coaching kind of thing. And like you were saying earlier, it's so saturated this day and age.

It's so hard in the social media, online coaching space, whatever content creation to stand out. We're focusing on the wrong problem. Like, yeah, you can go on Instagram and find every fucking online coach in the world, whether that's, you know, a shreds athlete or someone with a PhD. Are they still around? I hope not, man. I don't think so. I don't know. But what I'm saying is like, we're focusing on the wrong problems. We're focusing on the wrong areas. And yeah, sure. Whatever industry you're in, you can go find a million and one other people doing the same thing and then go hide in your cave because I'm not good enough.

How can I stand out? But what I tell people is if you're struggling to find your passion, you probably already have it. It's probably already there, but it is so ordinary for you that it doesn't stand out. And so what I tell people is literally hold your audience, ask your friends, your family, ask people online, whatever. What are the gifts that others already received from you? Because what is ordinary for you for probably a lot of people out there in the world is extraordinary to them. What you are naturally

good at, what is naturally easy for you, what naturally interests you is like Mandarin Chinese to other people. And those are the people that you can show up for. Those are the people that need your passion. And for me, that's a big part of what it was. Hey, you got a great voice. You got a great voice. You should do radio. And it wasn't just like to inflate my ego, but literally since my balls dropped, Mike, since high school, people were trying to get me into radio. My uncle was a producer for Sirius XM radio. You were made for this. You were born for this. But it never stood out to me because like, what do you mean? No, this is just how I talk.

This is normal for me. And then one day, because of what, like you're saying, I was showing up, I was learning. I was being a sponge. I was figuring out things that were of interest to me. And so when my mind was in the place where it and I were ready to receive a compliment, to receive input, this person said, hey, do you do radio? I was like, no, but you know what? I've been listening to a lot of podcasts. I would love to do a podcast. And if it was not for that person recognizing something in me, and it was not for me doing the work necessary to just learn and figure out what was interesting me in my life and making me better. I don't know what would happen, man. I mean, who knows? And my story with a bigger, leaner, stronger, it's very similar. I had

gotten into really good shape and a buddy of mine who I was working out with at the time, he was like, you should just take your shirt off and sell stuff on YouTube. That's literally what he said. That's how every social media person starts, man. And his name is Adam, right? And I was like, no, I can't. That's just not me. I can't bring myself to do it. I can't tell my parents I'm becoming an influencer. I'm sorry. And so that got me thinking. And coincidentally, right around then, Amazon started promoting their self-publishing platform, KDP, with the story of the first dude, I think it was actually a guy or a girl, the first person to sell a million books on their platform was this guy named John Locke. And he had kind of a cool story.

He made a bunch of money in the insurance business and was done with it and wanted to do something else. He always wanted to write fiction. So he just did it. And then it turned into this whole thing. And that then got me thinking saying, okay, I've always liked reading. And at that time I was doing, I was creating employee training programs for businesses and it kind of specialized in healthcare businesses. So I wasn't, I'd done a fair amount of writing, a bit different, but it was similar, how to, you know, breaking stuff down, teaching people jobs and whatever.

And so it started to connect those dots, like, oh, okay, that's interesting to me. I'll write a book, and this goes back to something you were talking about earlier about scratching your own itch, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll write a book that is simply the book that I wish someone would have just given me

back when I was 17 or 18 lifting weights. There it is. That's it, man. And let's see how it goes. And the first month it sold like 20 copies. I was excited though. I didn't know if anyone, I was expecting zero copies, honestly. I was one of them.

I was one of them. If you were, that's the universe. That's serendipity right there. When did it come out? 2012, January. Yeah. That's hilarious. I definitely had it. So that was the first edition. I definitely had it the first 90 days of 2012. That's serendipity right there. When did it come out? 2012, January. Yeah. That's hilarious. I definitely had it. So that was the first edition. I definitely had it the first 90 days of 2012. That's amazing. Because it sold, dude, it sold maybe 100 copies in those

first three months. So you're one of the- Absolutely. I was one of those 100. No doubt in my mind, man. That is really funny. And then here we are talking. But yes, so that was at Scratch My Own Itch. And then it grew in very similar to your story. There was a point where I was like, you know what? This is a real opportunity. And ironically, I almost didn't pursue it because there's, I don't really like the fitness scene or the industry. Oh no, I hate it, dude.

Nowadays it irks me. It's so gross. Initially going to, going to just do a publishing company. Cause I really like books and I know how to not just write books, but sell books. And that seemed a lot more interesting to me and publish other people's stuff including mine. But then I thought about it again and saw that, okay, this is a very good opportunity here. I can pursue the fitness stuff, but I'm just going to do it my way. And my way is I just want to create a lot of really good content and just get it directly into people's hands.

I don't want to play the networking game. I don't want to play the gatekeeper game. I don't want to pretend like I like a lot of these people who do not resonate with me at all. And I don't care to try to get on their shows or get guest posts or any of that shit. I'll just make my own shit and create my own platform. And so our stories parallel each other a lot in that way. And I mean, here's another great example of when you do this, when you do this self-work, when you pay attention and become curious and explore what interests you and what doesn't, not only will you enjoy your life more, I promise you will become disciplined in things, you will make progress in all areas of your life, but it will connect the dots with other people.

become disciplined in things. You will make progress in all areas of your life, but it will connect the dots with other people. You will have someone pull out a passion in you, but we find each other. Curious minds find each other, man. So I mean, this may be the LA woo-woo coming out of me, but- No, no, no. It's actually a matter of just pre-selection. It's a matter of time. Absolutely, man. Most people on average, the statistic is the average American reads one book a year. So now that's the average though, meaning that it's brought up by the people who read quite a few books and then brought down by all the people who read zero, right? The median is certainly is not going to be one.

Most people do not read one. Most people book per year and many people don't take any time to educate themselves in any way. So simply the fact that we are creating educational material, maybe we're not going to get as much traction as the butthole models, but we're going to get the right people. We're going to get people who are following us because they want to learn, not because they want to jerk off to our pictures. So, you know, I see that in Legion where almost one for one, our best customers. And in many cases, these are people who have spent thousands of dollars with us since the beginning, either came from books or have read one or more books

along the way. And that's not a coincidence. Like that's real data in terms of that we've done with conversion rate optimization people and really like diving down into our customer data. And it doesn't surprise me at all because those books are attracting a lot of higher caliber people, people who let's start with are at least trying to better themselves. They're attracting the you caliber of people. Like we've said multiple times here, man, it's do the thing, create the thing, build the platform, create the product, create the service that you need and you need it. And I promise you, you're not alone. There are many of us out here. And like you said,

man, it's just, it's a matter of time before we all just connect the dots and, you know, hop on a podcast together or read this, read each other's book. Well, this was a great discussion, man. I actually, I really enjoyed it. Likewise, likewise. Thank you. And let's just wrap up with where people can find you. Obviously, we've mentioned your podcast name a couple of times,

so let's just wrap up just in case anybody missed. Where can they find you and your work? And is there anything new and exciting that you want people to know about? Yeah, man. I mean, seriously, Mike, first of all, thank you so much for your time and for having me on here. It is so-

My pleasure. This world, man, it never ceases to amaze me how I can show up and like, what? This is my life? Like reading your book years ago at a time when I was so broken in many ways and now here we are talking. And those initial podcasts that I was listening to in my horrible commute in DC are, I'm so proud to now like call friends and peers. And I text, it's just wild, man. When you do anything with your life, you compound and build momentum and you cannot not be successful in whatever you're doing.

And people do take notice. And I say that though, with the caveat of, I think it's important to not want to be admired by people and to not try to play to people and be someone you're not to try to, you know, get their attention. But there's the positive side of it is you do cool shit. People do notice and you do get to meet interesting people and you do get to reach a lot of people. And in our case, just because of meet interesting people, and you do get to reach a lot of people. And in our case, just because of the nature of our work, you get to help a lot of people. When you really think about, you've mentioned this a number of times, the number of people that you've reached.

And if I think about the number of people that I've reached and directly helped, that's pretty cool because even if it all just burned down tomorrow, I still would have that. I still would be able to say, hey, I have legitimately helped people, tangibly helped hundreds of thousands of people at this point, possibly even millions. I've reached millions, but how many people have taken anything and done something with it? It very well may be in the millions. And that's pretty cool. That just makes me feel good. Oh, I believe it. And that's more satisfying than money or accolades or any of the side effects of that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Financial success and all these other external definitions of success just happen to be byproducts of true happiness, true fulfillment, true success with the self. So

hats off to you, man. Again, thank you. And yeah, I live and breathe and hang out the most on Instagram. I'm at Chase underscore tuning. A lot of people are like, wait, are you Max's brother? But yes, yes, yes. That's me. Tunings are very small family. It's a very strong chance we're related. And then my show now 2020, we are now doing three episodes a week, every Monday, Wednesday,

Thursday on Ever Forward Radio, wherever you listen to podcasts, Google, Apple, Spotify, whatever. But yeah, I'm actually thinking back to a former version of myself. I remember wanting to get started in the podcast space and I literally spent about four or five months just trying to figure shit out before I actually launched or did anything real. So a big part of what I'm doing now, like I said, last year, the production services kind of really took off and we're doing, having a lot of fun there and doing well there, but I want to help more people. And so I actually have, man, it's, it's a totally free, I call it the free ultimate beginner's guide to podcasting. Um, everyone can just go to operation podcast.com. I think

technically you have to do the WWW. I don't know, maybe just be a browser fuck up, but operation podcast.com. No, I have your tech guy. He can fix that. Okay, cool. Yeah. That's just a domain issue. He can fix that. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, but Operation Podcast, I put out this free academy. It's just a couple videos. If you have that itch, if you're curious, and I would challenge you to go deeper on talking about things and exploring things, this podcast platform has transformed my entire life. And whether you get five people to listen to your show or 5 million,

it is all worth it. It is so fulfilling to me. So operationpodcast.com, we've got the free ultimate beginner's guide and happy podcasting everybody. I love it, man. Thanks again. Thank you. All right. Well, that's it for today's episode. I hope you found it interesting and helpful. And if you did and you don't mind doing me a favor, could you please leave a quick review for the podcast on iTunes or wherever you are listening from? Because those reviews not only convince people that they should check out the show, they also increase the search visibility and help more people find their way to me and to the podcast and learn how to build their best body ever as well. And of course, if you want to be notified when the next episode goes live,

then simply subscribe to the podcast and whatever app you're using to listen and you will not miss out on any of the new stuff that I have coming. And last, if you didn't like something about the show, then definitely shoot me an email at mike at muscleforlife.com and share your thoughts. Let me know how you think I could do this better. I read every email myself and I'm always looking for constructive feedback. All right. Thanks again for listening to email myself and I'm always looking for constructive feedback. All right. Thanks again for listening to this episode and I hope to hear from you soon.