Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - David Nurse on How to Create Breakthroughs

Episode Date: February 9, 2022

In this podcast, I have a conversation with my friend David Nurse all about realizing your potential, achieving more than you thought was possible, and creating breakthroughs. This is something David knows about because he recently released a book called “Breakthrough,” which provides an actionable blueprint to increase your innovation and creativity on demand. David took what he learned about the habits and routines of the most successful NBA players and coaches to develop a framework for creating more breakthroughs in your life. In case you’re not familiar with David, not only is he a former pro basketball player life optimization coach, and a repeat guest on my podcast, but he’s a bestselling author, and acclaimed speaker, recently named by Real Leaders as a Top 50 keynote speaker (and he’s the youngest speaker int he list to boot). In this interview, we discuss . . . What breakthroughs are and the framework you can use to have them more frequently The value of competition Developing self-confidence The fear of failure How to break through limits and realize “potential” The self-made, lone-genius myth How to make personal connections and build a network And more . . . So, if you want to learn what “breakthroughs” are and how you can foster having more of them in your life, definitely check out this podcast! Timestamps: 0:00 - Buy One Get One 50% off on Pulse Fruit Punch and Blue Raspberry! Go to buylegion.com/pulse and use coupon code MUSCLE to save 20% on your first order or get double reward points on your order. 4:53 - Why did you write this book 5:08 - What does a “breakthrough” mean? 18:48 - What do you mean by, “making completion your idol?” 22:04 - What are your thoughts on building self-confidence? 27:29 - What about fear of failure? 31:38 - How do you balance an “I don’t care what people think” mentality while still wanting feedback and challenges? 46:51 - What are your thoughts on being self-made? 1:01:01 - Where can people find you and your work? Mentioned on the Show: Buy One Get One 50% off on Pulse Fruit Punch and Blue Raspberry! Go to buylegion.com/pulse and use coupon code MUSCLE to save 20% on your first order or get double reward points on your order. David Nurse’s Website: davidnurse.com

Hello, and welcome to Muscle for Life. I'm Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today for an interview I did with my buddy, David Nurse, about realizing your potential and specifically about creating breakthroughs. Now, what is meant by that? Well, breakthroughs are quantum leaps in improvement, not small incremental gains, but major improvements. And that can be in business or in life. And this is something that David knows a little bit about. He did just release a book called Breakthrough, which has his actionable blueprint to increase your innovation and increase your creativity and increase your ability to find those key actions, those key ideas that will make all of the difference. And David wrote this book because in his day job, he works with some of the

most successful NBA players and NBA coaches and helps them create breakthroughs in their work, in their ability to play and coach basketball. And in this book, David is sharing the habits and the routines that he has used to help so many of these athletes and these coaches, and he shows how they can be applied to any area of life. And so in this interview, you will hear from David on several things. He'll talk about what breakthroughs are, and he shares a framework you can use to have them more frequently. He talks about the value of competition, developing self-confidence, the fear of failure, the self-made lone genius myth, how to make more and more impactful personal connections and how to build a network and more.

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And if it is not your first order, you will get double reward points. That is 10% cash back on that order. And know that if you don't absolutely love Pulse, just let us know and we will give you a full refund on the spot. No forms, no return even is necessary. So you can't lose. Go to buylegion.com slash pulse, order now, use the coupon code muscle, save 20%, try Pulse risk-free and see what you think. Hey, David, thank you for taking the time to do this. For everybody listening, we just finished recording an episode for his podcast and we both had the time. So I, I was planning on having David back on mine and then we had to reschedule and this worked out. So I'm happy. Mike, dude, always

an honor. And after recording with you, I kind of feel like I just want to keep asking you questions of how I can optimize my health and fitness, but I guess we'll talk about me. Then, then, then, then I'll get the complaints that I talk too much. Why don't I just shut up and let my guests talk? Which I understand. I was bad in that way early on. I think I'm better now. I at least try to not hijack conversations. Yeah. You've been on those podcasts, though, where they're telling everything that they think. And then you're like, well, okay, why was i on this podcast so yep i get it there's a balance with it and yes exactly so the book uh breakthrough tell us about this book why did you write it

great question so my question to you is in 2022 coming up this year we got coming up would you like a breakthrough what does that mean what's a breakthrough oh even better even better question but first would you like one does it sound like something enticing to you mike would you in some area sure so long as it's not a breakthrough infection i'll i'll i'll have i've already i've already i've already had covid though so i don't care isn't that funny like come out with this book and then people like wait whoa is it is it is about breakthrough infection oh come on but hey if you pick it up because of that reason even better yeah it would be like maybe me releasing a line of booster supplements yeah

maybe not a great idea that's it that. That's it. I had this first, by the way, anyways. So a breakthrough is, is a very abstract term. When you think about it, you don't really know exactly what it is. It's these little strokes of luck, luck, happy accidents that happen. And you're like, man, that was cool. Now, how do I recreate that? So I've been thinking through years of working with NBA players and seeing how the highest level athletes, NBA coaches, CEOs now, and seeing how they perform on a daily basis, the habits that they create, the routines that they live in, basically the formula that they have to create their breakthroughs. I was like, okay, there's something to this. Why do we have to

just hope and wish for breakthroughs in our lives to come? Why don't we live in a formula so we create breakthroughs to actually occur? And now when I say this, I'm not saying, Mike, man, your breakthrough, if you live in this, it's going to happen tomorrow. It's just like you brush your teeth one time and your teeth are still going to rot if you don't do it. It's a lifestyle. It's a formula that you continue to live in. So there's four parts to it. We can get into each part. I'm just going to give the overview first. The first part is confidence. So it starts with confidence and confidence is tied to not your resume, not your results, not what other people are saying about you at all. It starts from within who your true self-awareness, who you are at the core. So when you meet somebody, most people will say,

hey, what do you do? What do you do? Especially out here in LA, everybody's sizing each other up like, yeah, what do you do? What do you, but when was the last time? Who do you know? Who were you partying with last night? Yeah. What's your Instagram numbers? When was the last time someone said, who are you? Like you take everything away. Who are you at the core? And it all starts with who? Simon Sinek made it hot to say it starts with why.

No, it doesn't. You have to know yourself first before you know where you're going. So the first piece is confidence. Then you add that with what I call cooperation, which is with others, teamwork. You can't do anything alone. There's just like no one's ever done anything alone by themselves to achieve greatness. But it's also putting yourself around people who aren't necessarily like you. We have different strengths for a reason and a purpose. Far too often society will tell us, hey, that's your

weakness, increase it. We're defined by our weaknesses, but weaknesses are just another term for a compliments wishlist, meaning like let's take the 98 Bulls, the Chicago Bulls, 98 Bulls. They were not all just superstars. It was MJ, the best scorer, Scotty Pippen, the best wingman, sidekick, Robin to the Batman, Steve Kerr, the best shooter, Dennis Rodman, the best crazy man. You don't know what color hair he's going to show up with or he's going to get kicked out of the game or not. These are different pieces put together to make this ultimate team. It's what I call embracing your misfit. We're all misfits. We all have quirks. We're all different. Put that together with different people. You make this ultimate team.

different. Put that together with different people. You make this ultimate team. In that same breath, Mike, don't just have your support team. I know it's really cliche to say, yeah, I just got to get to my support team. Yeah, your support team is always going to tell you you're doing great. Oh, it's okay. Get back out there. Good job. But when has somebody had their challenge team? Like, I don't want to be around Yes Men. I don't want to be that American Idol singer who goes in and his family tells him he's great, but really he's horrible. I surround myself with people who will challenge me and support me. That's what the best leaders do. So finding your challenge and support team is part of the team cooperation. That's the where.

So as you see here, we got the who, confidence, your core, self-awareness, the foundation. Now you got your team around you. This is the where. So as you see here, we got the who confidence, your core self-awareness, the foundation. Now you got your team around you. This is your where. And the question is, what are you doing? So if you're doing, if you got to look at it and if you're doing what you are doing on a daily basis for yourself, for financial gain, for Instagram followers, for fame, you will never be content. You will never be satisfied. We've been both around billionaires, millionaires, and they have all the money in the world, but they're miserable because they're looking at their bank account and they're like, oh, this is why I should be content. You'll never be it. No one ever has in the history of ever.

So you're not going to be the first person. So the what is about service. And when I say that to people like, you know, I go down to the local food bank and that's great. Keep doing that. But true, genuine service is about giving your time and your energy when it is not convenient for you, when it does not fit in your Google colored calendar when you have a Zoom meeting at three o'clock and somebody needs you and you pour into that person. And I like, admittedly, I'm terrible at it. Like I love to do, do, do, do, do. And there'll be times when my wife will just come over in the afternoon to where I'm sitting and doing my work at the house. And so to try to give me a hug and, you know, spend some time with me. And I got like, Taylor, just wait, I got this call.

Let me get a few more emails in. But I find myself like I'm doing those things just because they're on the schedule so that I can have time to be with my wife later on. But she needed me in that moment. And there's people that will always need us. Like I've had times, man, especially now the world that we live in where there's so many craziness and lies being told and mental health is out of control. We don't know what people are going through. I had an opportunity years ago with a friend of mine. Like, I just wasn't there for him when he was giving me signs. And now he's not here any longer. Like, that's real. That happens. We can be that person that serves others when it's not convenient for us.

That's the what. And finally, the last piece is purpose. This is the why. This is the why. Now, don't get this confused. It's not necessarily about the what you are doing. Say, I'm going to go on this old mystical journey and live with the monks and find my why. No, it's not about necessarily the what you're doing,

it's who you are doing it for. So if you're in a job right now and you're like, man, I don't really like it, okay, all right, but who are you doing it for? Are you doing it for your family? Are you showing up at this job that you might not like going to as a reflection for your kids to show them, hey, dad's gonna get up or mom's

going to get up and work their butt off every single day, this relentless consistency. And then I'm a big proponent too on the most attractive thing somebody can have in figuring out their purpose, their why, is embracing the God-given gift and passion they have inside of them. Meaning, for example, you go down to the coffee shop, and that barista is so obsessed with making the perfect cup, where he's like, oh, this bean was roasted in Honduras at 37 degrees Fahrenheit at this elevation. Dude, I love that. He might not be making any money. He might not be.

It's not about that. But he not be making any money. He might not be, it's not about that, but he is bringing people joy through his passion. That's when you know you are in your zone. That is when passion plus purpose equals mission you're on. So overviewing this confidence, the who, plus cooperation, the where, plus service, the what, plus purpose, your why. You are now living in the breakthrough mode. We can get more into this, but this is the mode for when breakthroughs turn from little happy accidents into regular occurrences. And so let's start with that first point. What do you mean by finding out who you are? Yeah, great question. So if you had to take everything away, so if I say, David, you no longer have any association with basketball author, speaker, who are you to other people? Are you somebody who is encouraging, loving, caring? And that's who I would say I am.

I think that is who I am at the core. I'm an encourager. And it has nothing to do with any like, okay, well, if I encourage my whole life, am I going to get any results out of it? No, I mean, maybe I won't. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't. But I know that's who I can wake up every day and look in the mirror, go to bed knowing that, okay, I know who I am. The extenuating circumstances, the people around society does not have to give me validation. If I'm searching for validation from the outside, then there's something wrong with my internal motivation on the inside. And the biggest example that I give of this is one of my best friends is Jeremy Lin, who had this time called Lin Sanity. Back in the NBA, we played for the Knicks 2012, 2013. And if you don't know what

I'm talking about, go check it out. It's incredible. Dude came out of complete obscurity to take over the NBA, like literally was three days away from getting cut. He was living on his teammates' couch. He would have given up on basketball at that point. Gets his opportunity and he kills it. Goes for 30 points a night, game winners, game after game. Number one trending thing in the world. So put yourself in Jeremy's shoes. I remember hearing about it and I don't follow any professional sports really. He was the number one trending thing in the world, magazines, Twitter, all this stuff. So put yourself in his shoes. If you woke up one morning

and you were that number one trending thing, everybody was talking about you, feel pretty good, right? But if he was being honest with you, he did not. Instead of living the appreciation and understanding who he was at the core, he was thinking, man, well, what if I don't keep this up? What will people think of me? What if, what if, what if living in the what ifs instead of the self-awareness confidence. And one of the biggest breakthroughs I've seen him have in myself, in my own coaching career, seeing him coming to his own, like he knows he stands for his faith in Jesus is standing up for his Taiwanese people.

And that he, I like to joke, like he thinks he's a great gourmet chef in the kitchen is very debatable, but he stands for it. So more than just what you do on the surface. mentioned, many people, especially here in the West, are obsessed with using wealth or just success in a career as the primary barometer of personal value and of meaning. And as you said, it just does not work like that. And anybody who has, we're talking about wealth, anybody who has made a fair amount of money will tell you that. Although I do know of some people who they just love making money. Maybe that there is something that maybe that does speak to who they really are. Like a friend of mine, he's a great person. He reminds me a bit of you. He's just very upbeat. He's very helpful. He's a genuine person. And he'll say it himself. He has a net worth of

probably $500 million. He has more money than he needs and than he'll ever need. And he's younger than I am. He's 35, 36, but he just loves making money. He said, I don't even, I can't even explain it to you. He's like, I just love building my business and making money and watching my net worth go up. I love it. I don't even know why, but every rule has the exception. right? But that's an interesting exception. I want to cut you off there. I love that you bring up that point. First off, I like that you compared me with somebody who said, I'm a lot like this guy who's got a $500 million net worth. Maybe not quite there yet, but I love making money.

I love making money. I love growing the business that I'm doing. I love it money. I love making money. I love growing the business that I'm doing. I love it because I see it as a competition. And it sounds like your friend does as well. So as being very competitive, and I think society tries to tell us to do the opposite. Oh, competition is bad. No, it's not. Competition is great. I'm not saying, hey, Mike, I'm coming for your throat. So there can only be one of us. The pie doesn't have to just be one size. It can be a la mode style. Like you compete against yourself, which is what your friend's doing. He's probably like,

dude, I made 20 million this month. I need 22. But he's not going to go just go crazy and be super stressed out if he makes 18 million. It's a number. It's a fun competition. And I've turned basketball, which was my competition, I'm going to be the best shooter in the world into being the best shooting coach in the world, into being the best speaker, the best author, or growing my business. Competition is super healthy and super needed as long as you don't make that your idol. And that's the part where people get hung up on. And what do you mean by that? So as an idol, meaning like your whole dependency on joy, your whole, I guess you could say like your whole identity is based on that.

is based on that. So if your friend, let's say he had a low month, a really low month, and do you think he would feel like just at the end of the world, do you think he would be like, man, this is like, life can't go on. I'm just, I'm a horrible person. I give up. I doubt it. No. Yeah. I bet he would think, I bet he'd be like, huh, well, that didn't work. I'm going to go back to the drawing board and I'm going to scheme up how I can figure this out because this is a problem for me to solve. So it's not an idol to him. It's a competition to him. If it's an idol to him, if money becomes an idol to somebody, when they lose it, their identity is gone. They are in the tank. They can't go on. But if people see it as this is where the greatest misconception about money is,

it's transactional. Money was not created to be just held. It wasn't created just to create a large sum of huge wealth. It was created to be transactional. And I tell people, go make a ton of money and then make sure that you are a steward with it. Like give, give your money. I've found it in my own life. So as you know, like I've, Jesus is a big, important thing to me. And it's, that's my faith. That's why I have me like my rock. And years ago, about three years ago, I decided to start listening to where it says, Ty, give 10%. And at always, I was like, you know what? Why would I give this hard earned money that I worked for? Why would I give 10% of it? No, I'm not doing that. Like, okay, I'm going to try this out. And it was tough. It was tough at

times to be given away thousands of dollars and thinking this my money that I earned. But I kid you not, every year that I've gone up and gone up, me and my wife have given more and more, more comes in. It just, it doesn't make sense how it works other than to me, it's God just pouring down his blessings because we're faithful to it. So when you're not attached to money and you're like, oh, I'm going to make a ton of money because I'm going to give it that, that is when like wealth money is something that is, is a healthy thing and not an idol. I totally agree. I think that almost flippant kind of insouciant, easy come, easy go mentality toward money is very healthy. And it helps develop a, I guess you could say a healthy relationship to money because I know and I've known many people over the years who have very, very strange relationships with money, very strange ideas about money. In some cases, people who have a lot of money, some of the weirdest actually ideas given circumstances are with people who you talk about hoarding money and obsessing about money

that can become extreme in people who have a lot of money, which seems counterintuitive. But what are your thoughts on building self-confidence? That's obviously a hot button for many people. And are you the fake it till you make it? Are you in that camp? Are you in another camp? What are your thoughts? Yeah. And I am not in the fake it till you make it, but I am in the go do. And even if you don't know the exact answer, even if you don't have it all together, go do it. You'll learn from it. The worst thing that you can do is stay in the same spot as you're at. Go try something, do it, do it, do it. Everybody has these ideas and, and these things that they're going to create and everything, but then no one

does it. Go do you don't even people coming out of college, like you really don't learn. I sure you can learn some book stuff. I went, I had, I went to business school. Like, I don't remember anything from that until I went out and I did. And it's another thing with confidence too, is you have to see some little wins. Like you can say, I give NBA players a seven steps to unshakable confidence. And I have this whole menu and it's like, here's the things that you, like you create your own confidence, your highlight reel, your confidence through comparison, who you see yourself like,

who you can, like who you can be like all these different things. But matter of fact, like if you don't see some little wins and little success, the momentum building momentum, you're not going to be as confident in yourself. So track little, tiny, minor wins, celebrate those little wins, no matter what it is. Man, if you got sold one more book, or if I got somebody who reached out to me and said, man, this is like, I love the principles from Breakthrough that I'm implementing them. Write that down. Write that down. Track it. Track it. I have my big three that I do every evening. And it's three wins that either me or my wife have. I got a lot of different big three. So there's a big three

in the goals that I'm going for. I like to keep things in three, but three wins, little joys. And I'll look, I'll write those down at the end of each day, look at them the next morning. So I know like I have this momentum and then these big wins come. So you have to see the spark of momentum. Okay. And now another thing that holds a lot of people back is this feeling of imposter syndrome. And it's really a hot topic that people say, oh, well, you know, imposter syndrome. Yeah. Who am I to do the thing? Yeah. If you're feeling imposter syndrome, that's a great thing. Nobody who ever just sat on the couch playing

video games all day felt imposter syndrome. You're doing something if you're feeling imposter syndrome and you have to look at it too, as like, it's not a, it's not a why me? Why like, oh, he can do that. It's a why not me? All these people that you see, quote unquote, successful, you didn't see the work that they put in there. If you're not willing to go through these years, these times of grinding and grinding when nobody's seen this success, then you can't say

that you want to be there. You have to be willing to go through that. Like even my uncle who's an NBA coach for the Toronto Raptors wins the NBA championship in his first year. And everybody's like, whoa, lucky first year, lightning struck in a bottle. Dude, he'd been coaching for 27 years in countries you don't even know play basketball. I saw him in England taping players' ankles, popping popcorn at halftime. You don't see all that. So that being said, if you want to be at that point, you have to be willing. I know it's a cliche to say 10 years to become an overnight success, but some cliches are cliche for a reason. So I would say the biggest things that you can implement struggling with confidence is write down those little wins. Track the little smallest wins that you have.

And I mean, know that, hey, you know what? Imposter syndrome is a good thing if I'm feeling it. Embrace it. And then, too, you know, one thing that I do before I get on stage and speak, and I've been blessed to speak, and there'll be big audiences there. And, man, I get nervous. Like, anybody that says they don't get nervous is probably lying to you. But before I get on stage, I say to myself, you know what?

If I get on this stage and I fall flat on my face or I forget every word that I'm supposed to say, I don't care. Because I have God and I have my smoking hot wife. What else do I need? Like, I don't care what other people think. Sure. I want them to like me. Sure. I want them to, but it's, I'm not, not putting my dependency on this person in the first

row who I just met. If he says he doesn't like to talk, I don't care. Go somewhere else. So just that type of understanding that like people, people will think of you for about 10 seconds and then you'll think about what they said for the rest of the day. And it just can't happen. You just got to detach yourself. So I'd say those three points would be the main things for people struggling with confidence. And then we can go even deeper on the personal highlight reel. And when I talked about all the Q word and different types of ways to call up confidence. Yeah. Yeah. Great points.

And we actually discussed a bit of that in our previous interview. So for people listening, if you want to hear, uh, because yes, that came up, I believe it came from your pivot and go book. So if people want to hear more about those things, then go back and find the, I think it was the first interview that we did together on my show. And what about fear of failure? That's also a reason why many people, they don't do the things that they want to do or even feel like they should do. Yes, totally. Such a good question. And we know like the times that you fail, the difficult things that you go through. We always look back and like, man, I'm glad I did that. I'm glad I tried that. At least tried it. We always learn from it. But yet it's a hard thing to do. And the reason it's so hard is not because necessarily we feel failure, but we fear uncertainty. It's not because necessarily we feel failure, but we fear uncertainty. We don't know what's going to come.

Like if I was going to tell you the day that you die, you'd be cool. Like you get it. You'd probably be on the beach in Hawaii just chilling because you know that day. You're not as afraid of it. It's like I tell the story back when I was playing basketball in Australia. I went great white cage diving with the great white sharks and they take you like five hours off the coast probably because if the shark eats you nobody will know about it they just they put you down in these oh uh and they just go back and that's the end of that hey mate hey mate we lost one today and there are no logs of uh who goes where

yeah yeah they don't know don't necessarily know but they put you down in these cages Who goes where? Yeah, they don't know. Don't necessarily know. But they put you down in these cages and one person in each corner and you see these massive sharks, like 10 feet long, just fangs on fangs on fangs. You're looking at them dead in the eye. There's even like a little hole that if you stuck your arm through there, it'd be gone. And that's not the scariest part, though. The scariest part is when you look off into the ocean and you see nothing and you don't know when they're going to strike.

So the fear of uncertainty is actually why people feel fear failure, because we don't know what's going to happen. We're afraid to take that risk. And I'd like to say, too, is that I believe everybody has been given a gift, a God given gift. And now let's say, Mike, we'll set this analogy up as, let's say you love playing the piano. Okay. So I get you this great, beautiful, majestic grand piano for Christmas. It's awesome. It's gorgeous. But you put it in the corner and put a tarp over it and you don't play it because you're afraid of what somebody else might think if you play that thing. That's a slap in my face. That is disrespect to me.

And it's disrespectful to our creator, whether you think it's God, who gave you this gift, if you're just going to keep it inside of you. So I tell people, hey, if you have a gift, go do it. Go try it. Go see where it takes you. The most selfish thing you can do is just hold it in because we have this ability to help others. We have this ability to, I mean, as small as it might be, take little chips off the block to make a better society or encourage people.

And I know it's an uphill battle we're fighting because there's so many people the opposite way, And I know it's an uphill battle we're fighting because there's so many people the opposite way. But use your gift. Take a chance. The only thing that's going to happen is you'll be at the same spot that you were. Like when I got coaching the NBA, I hand wrote a letter to every NBA GM. And I didn't have any connections to get in the NBA. And long story short, I had one NBA GM for the Clippers get in touch with me.

We ended up having a meeting out in L.A. And basically, I just acted like I had a basketball game so I didn't look desperate to get out there. Every connection came from this guy. I lived with him when I moved out to L.A. He was in my wedding. Gary Sachs is his name. But that saying, it's scary to take that chance because, OK, what if nobody gets back to me? Then am I nothing? Am I a nobody? But take that chance because the worst that can happen is you'll be

at the same exact spot. It's only house money we're playing with. That's a great story. And I totally, totally agree. If you like what I'm doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my sports nutrition company, Legion, which thanks to the support of many people like you is the leading brand of all natural sports supplements in the world. You mentioned that you don't care what other people think, and I'm very much the same way, But I'd like to hear your thoughts on, well, one, that can sound maybe a bit arrogant, a bit aloof, right? And then two, how do you balance that with looking for feedback, looking to be challenged. You had mentioned that, and I think that's a

great point. It's something that I don't think there is nearly enough of starting with people who want to be challenged. Like I don't want to go, I'm going to hijack the conversation if I keep going, but that's just one of those things that I wish I had my rich friend who I mentioned, who loves to build his business. One of the things that I wish I wish I had my, my, my rich friend who I mentioned, who loves to build his business. One of the things that I really like about our friendship is, um, he's, he's genuinely a very friendly guy, but he's also quick to disagree with me if, and tell me he disagrees with me. And he knows now we know each other well that he doesn't have to sugarcoat it for me. He doesn't

have, I don't need a preamble to butter me up and soften me up so he can just tell me how I'm wrong. He knows he can just say, nah, I wouldn't do that. That's not a good idea. Here's why I wouldn't do, I would do this instead. And he knows that I like that. Like I appreciate that. And, and many people, I just don't, I just don't see much of that. I wish I had more of those people in my life who could look from the, from the outside and see things that I don't see. Like I have him to do that for me in my business because he loves business and he likes my business. And so he keeps tabs on things and we have conversations. And so he's quick to be able to give good advice that is immediately relevant to my circumstances, blah, blah, blah. But I don't have that for my

relationship with my wife, for example. I don't have that for other parts of my life. And I wish I did. I wish I had somebody who as a friend, because they care, not because they're trying to just put me down, would do the same thing, would challenge me. Why are you doing it that way? Have you ever thought about doing this? Hey, here's an idea to consider. Oh, that idea of yours, that's probably wrong. Here's why. And so I realize now I've gone on. There are two things that I want to hear now from you on. And I'll let you take them up in whatever order is most interesting to you. There's that whole bit that I just shared.

And then going back to how I started, that was not caring about what others think. Do you have any thoughts as to is that how you always were? Is that something you cultivated? And how do you do that without just being an arrogant prick? Yeah, two phenomenal points there. And it's definitely not something that was always there. It's a learning process over time. And just like anything, skill set development that you can see or for your for your profession you see yourself

with body development you see yourself growing you see tangible results in the mindset space it's tough for people because you don't see tangible results yep but so feelings can be so fickle right i mean up one day for unknown reasons down the next day for unknown reasons, down the next day for unknown reasons? That's why it's so important to build these mindset habits, these mindset tools, just like you would go spend an hour in the gym. Your goals are to try to become the best, strongest version, healthiest version of yourself. But if you're not doing anything for the mind

and having the same type of approach, it's hit or miss. That's where those happy accidents come in. But to the point of- And I think it's fair to say, just to interject quickly, right? That if we're not consciously working on something to make it better, it just gets worse. And that just seems to be a law of the universe, really. I mean, it applies to every physical thing, right? And it also seems to apply, it certainly applies to our bodies.

And it also seems to apply to our minds. It seems to apply to us in a spiritual sense for whatever that means to different people. That's spot on. Absolutely spot on. I wish that weren't the case, know it would make things a bit easier well i mean like let's say let's say i get to a point in my body composition and i'm like you know what i've this is exactly where i want to be and i'm not going to do anything from here on out you stop training and then you just get even stronger and leaner and yeah unfortunately it's exactly how it is

but it's it's hard for people to see it that way because it's not tangible. And I mean, when I say like, I don't care what people think, like, I want them to, I want them to like me. I'm human, but I don't, I don't put my daily joy in what somebody else says. And if somebody like, I'll definitely get people on Instagram or people that are like, oh, that's terrible. Haters, trollers, things like that. You know what? I love that because if somebody in their life has enough time to send something like that, I know that I'm doing something.

I know that there's people out there that are absolutely loving it. Now there's like, there's tons of stats and polls taken on this. I think it's like 18% of people will not like you. It's like, it's hard to get under that percentage. So just see what it is. People aren't going to like you and I'm not going to waste my time and I'm not going to be chasing them down. Same thing with like when somebody burns you or, and I've been burnt so many times and

I know you have, everybody has, and you just want to hold that grudge against them. Like, man, they did that to me. But if you do, then they're winning double on you. Like, I'm always one of like, I'm going to forgive you, but I'm not going to forget it. Like, I'm not going to let you control me by the negative thing that you said, or you burning me. Like I forgive you, but I'm not going to forget. And I even, I totally agree. And I even try to remain conscious of, of my thoughts, right? Because if, if you are spending time, just kind of raking over whatever happened again and again and again in your mind, then you can look at it. Uh, like you just said, oh, that's them winning still, essentially, right? As the internet would say, living rent-free in your head, right?

But it's also just not a good use of time and energy. I mean, you hold on to negative shit for too long. That's how you get cancer, man. That's it, man. See, you're more hip than me, man. I didn't know the living rent-free thing. You're more hip than me. Hey, but to the challenge, the challenge group thing and like why that's so important is people can always just tell you that you're doing a great job and they can just, yes,

man, you can, they just pat you on the back. And so many people seem to want that though. Then I've had that. I'm speaking from a place of personal disappointment in personal relationships where I realize that this person, they don't want to ever be even, they don't even want it to be insinuated that they are wrong about anything. They don't want to talk about it. They don't want to explore. They don't. So I'm just, you know, and then to me, it just then feels like, uh, it's, there's something that says this is

just not fulfilling to me in, in, in a relationship like that, where I just feel like with this person, you know, then I'll just talk about sports ball, talk about the weather, I guess. You know what I mean? I don't know. Like, I'll just where I feel like I'm not trying to be malicious at all, but I'm just not going to say that, even though I think it would make for an interesting discussion. But I know that they're just going to get hyper defensive. They're going to go right into their bunker mentality or just say nothing. Just, you know, OK, OK, OK. Yeah, people like that are insecure of themselves.

And I'm the same way, man. I don't want to have surface level conversations. Life's too short to just have everybody tell you how good you are. And people that do do that, it drives me nuts because it's like, hey, if I'm asking you a question, I'm like, I want you honest feedback. Like I'm asking people that I really, really trust right now that will challenge me on the next direction that I'm going with the book, with my books. I got a whole series plan that's going to be, it's going to be different. It's going to be completely different. And I need them to be like, David, what are you

thinking? You kook? Like, no, that's not going to work. And I'll respect that. It doesn't mean I'm going to agree with them, but it's even like my whole thing is I'm, I'm always going to go for wisdom to people who are wise in that field. And so many people were like, well, my mom, she told me like this, like, I'm not going to my mom for business advice. She has no idea. Like, that's not saying I like, I love my mom. She's awesome. Amazing. Supportive. But our parents want us to be safe. So if we're saying something like, we're going to take this chance, go for this risk. And mom's like, no, no, no, no, honey, honey honey honey honey go get that nine to five get you know the 401k mom's got to be right no no go for wisdom to people who are wise and man I said like in my

life I got I have these people like John Gordon or Ed Milet who I know that I can reach to and I'm not saying those names because they're big names but but they'll challenge me they'll be like David come on like go I'll bring them with big ideas that I'm doing. And they'll either be like, no, that's not going to work. You don't want that. It's not actually what you want or go for. Like, even when I got offered two years ago, I got offered by the Phoenix suns to run their whole player development, something that would have been a dream to me. I would have been able to bring in all of these optimization coaches, like sleep, blah, blah, blah, nutrition, and just kind of just this thing I've always wanted. And everybody around me was like, oh, wow, David, NBA, you're back. Okay, great. This is a great

job. And I told John this, and I'm here thinking like, oh man, this is going to be great. I'm going to do this. And John Gore was like, is this really what you want? You really think you're called to be in an NBA gym for the rest of your life? Is this really what you want? It's like, I see bigger impact in you much more than I'm writing books. I was like, whoa, okay. This guy was willing to challenge me. And those people that will challenge you, they're the ones that are going to lead you to your great. If not, you'll settle for your good. You'll settle for the good opportunities. And the enemy of our great is not bad. It's easy to see what bad choices are. It's those good ones that people settle for, that keep them from their great. And if you don't have a challenge team around you,

you'll never know. You know, it's something that I have thought about a number of times and my latest position basically on what you just said is it's so easy for us to settle into circumstances and become comfortable with them, no matter how good or bad they are, right? And we've all probably experienced this ourselves and seen it in others where, particularly where it's bad. And you wonder, how is this person not getting out of that crazy relationship or changing up their crazy work environment? And how are they okay with that, right? And really what I guess what I'm getting at is we all have an infinite capacity for self delusion, right? And it's, it's naive to think that only other people do it, not us. No, of course we all do it. And so something that I have hit on that, that seems to be workable,

at least more correct than incorrect is the key. And this has been a theme in this talk is to always be working to make things better because unfortunately we don't know how good things can be. And this, I think this applies to any dimension of our existence period. We don't know how good things can be, and we don't know what it's going to be like when things are that good. So it, don't know, it again makes it very easy to just focus on what we know, what's in front of us and the way things are. And so if we're not working to improve circumstances, unfortunately, we may never find out what we are capable of or just how great any part of our life can be. And if we do just consistently, though, work to make things better, then we may not reach it, but there's a chance now. We may be able to find out how far we can go, you know? Such a good point. And that's

potential. And I think that word's thrown around there so much, like, oh, potential. And I've been around these great NBA players who was going to tell somebody, Hey, and you got potential to be a hundred thousand dollars a year guy automatically, they're thinking that's my limit. No, it's not. It's your own self-created limit. So throw potential out the window. Like there's never a, Oh, well, I reached my potential. We don't know what that is. Like you can keep going and keep going and keep going. And that's the fun in it. Like that's the competition. That's the drive. Now me and you are both very intrinsically driven as it is. Some people, a lot of people aren't that way and they just don't know. Like I'm not, I'm not shaming people if you're not, but you just don't know what's out there. So you got to paint the picture for people like,

Hey, you know what, like what could be How much better it can actually get? You don't have to be stuck in this little cubicle. You really don't. I mean, this job that you say you don't like and this thing that you really love doing, you can actually get there and actually do it. So I like to do things with people that I coach is called the Come in Five Years Party. So you get extremely detailed. You even dress up like it, like you go super into this is who you are going to be in five years. And once you paint that picture, once people paint that picture, they see it. And then I'll ask them that question, like, hey, do you really believe you can get there? And if like sometimes, you know, maybe not so much.

And some people say yes. And this and then it it's, then it comes down to, okay, that is where, you know, you can go. We'll eventually get them to convince. So like, you know, in five years you can be at this point. And that's, that's what you want. Like that's, it might change, but at least, you know, what direction you're going. Now you just work your way back from there. It's like having a pot of gold, that pot of gold, like on the treasure map, there's different spots you're going to have to stop at. You got to just figure out what those spots are, but showing people what can be in painting a picture of how great the future can be for them is what's going to get a lot of people who are these worst, I mean, guess content and not, not very driven, not for the fact that they don't want to be. They just don't know where to go or how to get started.

Talk to us about the self-made myth, the lone genius myth, the idea that you can just really go it alone and achieve greatness. Oh, such a good question. And nobody is self-made. and achieve greatness? Such a good question. Nobody is self-made. First off, our gifts are given to us. We are just able to use those gifts for others. But even in the sense of, let's say you have your own gifts.

You are not self-made. I hate the term self-help. Nobody's self-helping. You can't help yourself. You need others. Personal development is BS. You have to have. It's not just about yourself. Nobody can get anywhere without others around them. I've never seen it done before. That's why it's so important to surround yourself with people who are big dreamers,

are driven, motivated, are not these negative energy vampire suckers. Like nobody says, you know what, a guy at work, like he's always bringing me down. He's always complaining. I love being around him. We get the choice to be around the people we want. Sure. We might have to put up with them even like during Christmas time or these holidays. Like you don't have to want to be around everybody in your family. No, you can still love them, but you don't have to give them time and energy to it. But yeah, I mean, just think about the opportunities that you've got in your life. All of us listening to this. Was it somebody who introduced you to somebody else?

Was it an opportunity that somebody heard of you on, let's say, I get a speaking gig from this podcast? Did I make myself? No, Mike, you gave me this platform. You gave me this opportunity. And there is nothing more important than the relationships that we build. To me, that's the most fun part of all of this. Like we talked offline, like I love pouring into people and hearing their story and seeing

where if there's a way that I can help them because I love people seeing genuine joy in their life. That's what I figured out when I was training NBA All-Star. I had like the best of the best NBA players on the court one summer training every day. And I was like, I don't really care about teaching them another step back move or a jump shot. Like, I love to see when they're encouraged. I'd love to see when they have true, genuine joy. And like, that doesn't happen alone, nor is it, nor is it even fun alone. Then you're that person who's on their deathbed and like well i traveled the world i made all this money i did all like but who did i have to share it with

yeah who's who's gonna show up to my funeral uh short list uh and and that's something that i think it shines through just in your personality. And I'm curious, though, to hear a little bit about the mechanics of making connections. And the reason I bring that up is it's something that I don't put much time into myself. I don't know. Maybe I could be good at it if I wanted to be. I mostly, I guess, just like I've said off line, I kind of just stay in my cave and work on the next book and work on the next podcast. And as far as the help I get from others, people like you, a lot of it is what falls into my lap, so to speak. So I'm not actively, at least not very

actively out there cultivating these new relationships. And that's something that you seem to do very well. And I know part of that is, isn't there is an X factor. Uh, your, your personality plays into that and your natural talents play into that, no doubt, but I'm sure there also is a bit of a formula too. There is a method, I'm sure. Totally. And I have in the book, a connection calculator that goes into these things that you have to filter through to make sure this connection is correct. But the first point I want to say is like, that's who you are and you know who you are. You're not trying to be somebody else. So number one, be who you are and why things fall into your lap is because of the person that you are. You genuinely care about others and you're not going out to seek these, but people

like myself or other people, they're like, Hey, I like being around Mike. Like why wouldn't I introduce him with this friend of mine? So at the end of the day, connections, I love doing it because I love seeing my friends succeed. I truly, genuinely love it when I'll see like, if your book goes New York Times bestseller, I promise you I will be celebrating, man. I love it. And I love putting good people together because I think like, hey, this guy's amazing. This guy's amazing.

Your girl, like, can't they do amazing things together? Sure. And yeah, yes, I love, I guess, selfishly being the one who puts them together because they're always going to remember me. They're like, oh, yeah, David put us together. That's cool. So there's that cultivating piece being that connector. But it is not. This is where people get a misconception. It is not LinkedIn. It is not hitting people up. It is not the times that I get DMS and say, man, I'd love to connect. I'd love to pick your brain or take you out for coffee. Or like, I mean, even if it is a genuine and maybe the person's a little bit naive. I mean, think about our time. Like I don't, I don't even have that much time to spend with my kids. I'm not going to meet you for coffee. I'm sorry. Right. Exactly. I'm not, it's not, I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm gonna spend my free time with my wife, like random Joe who just DM me like, sorry. So here's the way I'm going to give you, I'm going to give listeners a hint of how to do this.

Okay. So if you're going to message somebody, let's say you're reaching out to somebody that you want to meet one, don't ever say, let me pick your brain. Like, no, that's not going to turn you off right away. Don't just get broad things like, hey, can you tell me how you got to where you are? Don't ask. Do not ask for anything. It's the complete opposite. If you were reaching out to me, here's how you would do it. You read Breakthrough. You saw this chapter. You saw something and you're like, this is incredible. You sent me a message. David, I just want to let you know, man, you are doing amazing things. I read Breakthrough, actually going through it a second time. Here's this chapter that really hit me. I've been sharing it with my friends. If there's anything I can do for you, I'm in your corner. There's no pressure on me to think that I have to do something.

And you also put in there too, like this is one huge key that I've seen work time and time again, put in there, man, no pressure at all. Like definitely don't feel like you have to. If you put it already in there that they don't feel like they have to, they're more likely to do. But you've got to serve. You've got to pour into them. You've got to do this. And you've got to expect nothing in return. pour into me. You got to do this and you got to expect nothing in return. Like I'll send people messages that I just really respect. I'm like, dude, you're like, I love your content. I love the light you are. I won't get anything back, but maybe I will. That's the real way to do it. And it's not just, yeah, sure. I want to meet these people or people

want to meet me or you, but you got to do in a different way because no one's just going to give you a 20 minutes. If I'm going to give you 30 minutes, I'm going to charge. I'll charge you. If you want to talk about it for 30 minutes or if you want to learn how to do this, get on my coaching session. I'm charging $15,000 for a talk to companies for an hour. Pay the hourly rate if you want to. But if you're going to pour into me and serve, give, give, give without expecting anything in return, then that's when it separates you and it comes back to you in return. Great advice. Great advice. And I don't even give talks. I don't do coaching. So I'll have people even say, hey, I'd love to pay for some of your time. And I don't even know what to charge.

And again, my time is so short these days. Whatever would make sense would be so inappropriate to ask because I don't just have my next book, article, or podcast. I also have to run Legion. And that takes, I mean, I have a great team, but it still takes my time. And so, I mean, again, I don't like to have to say no when I get those types of messages, but what you just shared is I totally agree. I totally agree. And that's at least the way to start cultivating what could become a relationship. And I will say, I'm sure you have as well,

I have made many, many e-friends, people I've never met, but over the years who that's how it started. They emailed me usually, and they read one of my books and they really liked it. And they maybe had a question and I'm happy to answer to answer questions and they just stayed in touch and they read the next book that came out. And, and there, there have been instances where I've, I've got on Skype calls or zoom calls with people and given them and not charged anything. Cause I didn't, I didn't really even know what would be appropriate to ask, but just give them 30 minutes of my time because this person has been emailing me and staying in touch and keeping me posted for like three years. You know, that's where I feel like, all right, this is appropriate.

And I'm happy to spend some time because I feel like this is a friend of sorts. You know, I've never met them, but I know them virtually. And so I totally, totally agree with what you just said. I love that you said that. It's a long game. It is literally a long game. People will come to me like, well, he didn't get back to me the first time. You kidding me?

You really think? Is that what you wanted? You wanted to be transactional? You wanted to be relational? Yep. Even I made that decision with the NBA players that I work with with like i'm not going to so many trainers on there will use players like oh look who i'm working with or look who i'm with i want these guys like i like these guys they're my some of my best friends i want them to be friends when we're 80 years old i want

these relationships that i'm developing with you these other people who are doing great things in space like i don't want this to be a transactional thing. Like this is relational. This is long-term true friendship. So don't, don't play that little short game. Totally agree. And in business, I think that, uh, there, there are, there is a, there is a place for transactional relationships.

And I actually appreciate people who are very open about that when it is transactional. Let's say it's a marketing type of thing and it is just a tit for tat. They're not looking for a friendship per se. Totally fine with me. And in that case, I do appreciate if they make it clear that, look, I have something that you would like, you have something that I would like. We should exchange things that we each other would like. And I think we'll both be happy, you know? Yes. That's kind of, I mean, totally good point that you made that. And sometimes friendships will happen from there, but you understand like, hey, we're

going to trade these things, money for money, something for something. But that's where it starts. And that's completely communicated. Totally. Well, we could probably easily go on for another hour, but I've found that probably around the hour mark is a good place to end a lot of the interviews. And so I want to thank you again for taking the time.

And the book is Breakthrough. It is available everywhere. People buy books, I'm assuming. Everywhere. There it is. And so pick up a copy and give it a read, start reading it again, shoot David a DM, let him know what you thought of the book. What did you like about it? What'd you like the most? And challenge them too. How about people tell you what they liked the most and what they didn't like, what they thought you could have done better. I mean, I have gotten so many good critiques and suggestions over the years. That

actually is, I would say at least 50% of the changes that I've made in. So I'm releasing a fourth edition of Bigger Leaner Stronger and Thinner Leaner Stronger in Q1 of next year. Over the next couple of months, they'll come out. And then in the summer, maybe I'll do something fun to officially announce it. And what I've done since the beginning is I've kept a running list of suggestions and critiques that people have made. And I have gone through every review. I mean, there was a time when I would read every review of every book on Amazon and reply to every single one too. Now you can't reply anymore, so I can still just look. And I got so many, so many good ideas for how I can improve those books. And so I have to give credit for the evolution of those books. At least half of the ideas came from people who were respectfully, sometimes not even respectfully, but I don't care. They can say all of the nasty things they want. But when I get criticism, again, even if it's nasty, I am first interested in the substance. Is there something there? Are they actually making

a good point? They're just a dick. They could just be nicer about it, but they're not. That's valuable to me. And but but in a lot of cases, it's people just offering trying to offer constructive criticism. And I love that. I've gotten so many good ideas that way. So for people listening, I'm sure, David, you feel the same way. That's a great point. Please, I need to do more of that because it's not necessarily always what I think is the best thing to put out there. But what other people totally, man, I'm taking that. Please give me constructive criticism. And because you want to write more books. So, I mean, you know, you have a lot more.

We might be doing this every year at this time, Mike, one a year. So just pencil me in for next year at this time. But I'm going to tell people, here's the challenge too. If you're a true leader, buy 10 of these books and then go get 10 more people to buy it. There you go. Love it. True leader. Love it.

Love it. And also, where can people find you if they want to follow you? You have your podcast. You're active on social media. What do you want people to know about? Yes, so totally. So davidnurse.com is a website, and I'm really putting more of an emphasis on the group coaching. It's what I call the Be The Breakthrough group.

It's a special group, man, of people that want to make changes in their life. group, man, of people that want to make changes in their life. And it's this cohort, this community where we help each other basically build their breakthrough blueprint. Like let's say, hey, I'm in this job. I don't know how to get out of it. We go through group coaching and we give you by the end of the 12 weeks, here's your blueprint. Here's the formula. Now go do it. So the group coaching on Davididnurse.com, that's something I'm putting a huge emphasis on this year. Love doing it. Social media, David Nurse NBA and podcast. Just search my name. It's going to be changing the name. So I'm not exactly sure when that's going to happen.

Are you already, have you already decided on the new name or not yet? Yeah. Oh yeah. The new name is encouragement. Cool. And there's a reason why it's encouraged. We'll break it down. The first episode is going to tell you why it is and why, what encouragement actually truly means. So it'll be encouragement with David Nurse.

Yep. And yeah, I mean, if you ever get out here to. I'm suspecting that courage is an operative part of that. Yeah. And in starts with the inside, the end and mint might be a play on mint success. Why find what true success is. So it might be that three part. It might, it is cool. Anyways, that's how you find me. Awesome. Well, thanks again, David. I look forward to the next one. you find me. Awesome. Well, thanks again, David. I look forward to the next one. Uh, we'll, we'll have to, to brainstorm what, what else we could talk about. And I don't think it'll be too hard. Mike, you're the man, dude. Thanks for having me on your podcast. Like it's a,

it truly is an honor and a blessing when someone has built something so great and have such a great committed following to continue to bring me on. Like that's, that's huge, man. Thank you. My pleasure. And thank you for, for the time and for the wisdom. I love it. Well, I hope you liked this episode. I hope you found it helpful. And if you did subscribe to the show, because it makes sure that you don't miss new episodes. And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you. And if you didn't like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have ideas or

suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email, mike at muscleforlife.com, muscleforlife.com, email mike at muscleforlife.com, muscleforlife.com, and let me know what I could do better or just what your thoughts are about maybe what you'd like to see me do in the future. I read everything myself. I'm always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode, and I hope to hear from you soon.