Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Dell Farrell on Biggest Fitness Lessons for Women

Episode Date: April 23, 2015

In this podcast I interview coach and bikini competitor Dell Farrell and we talk clean eating vs. flexible dieting, feeling intimidated at the gym (12:35), dealing with water retention (27:08), and more... DELL'S WEBSITE: http://icecreamgal.com/ ARTICLES RELATED TO THIS VIDEO: The Ultimate Fitness Plan for Women: http://www.muscleforlife.com/the-ultimate-fitness-plan-for-women/ Does CrossFit Work? http://www.muscleforlife.com/does-crossfit-work/ The Definitive Guide to the Paleo Diet: http://www.muscleforlife.com/the-definitive-guide-to-the-paleo-diet/ The Definitive Guide to Why Low-Carb Dieting Sucks: http://www.muscleforlife.com/low-carb-diet/ The Definitive Guide to the “If It Fits Your Macros” Diet: http://www.muscleforlife.com/what-is-if-it-fits-your-macros-and-does-it-work/ The Science of Stress, Cortisol, and Weight Loss: http://www.muscleforlife.com/stress-cortisol-weight-loss/ Water Retention and Weight Loss: You Can Lose Fat, But Not Weight? http://www.muscleforlife.com/water-retention-and-weight-loss/ Want to get my best advice on how to gain muscle and strength and lose fat faster? Sign up for my free newsletter! Click here: https://www.muscleforlife.com/signup/

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To do that, go to www.muscleforlife.com forward slash audiobooks. That's muscleforlife.com forward slash audiobooks, and you'll see how to do this. So thanks again for taking the time to listen to my podcast. I hope you enjoy it, and let's get to the show. All right, so let's start with your story. So who are you? Why should people listen to you? Okay, so I am... That's what people want to know. Who are you and why should people listen to you okay so i that's what people want to know who are you and

why should i care uh my name is dell farrell or sometimes known as ice cream gal ice cream gal.com um i am a personal trainer from australia i started off um with the traditional like bro science approach because that's what I was taught through my certification. I did CrossFit and clean eating and then I went strict paleo. You didn't go paleo? You went there. Yeah. Very like, it was like so OCD paleo and I read all the books and I was like no grains, no legumes, no anything, no fun. And I always told like from my personal training certification,

sugar's bad, carbs are bad. So even though I was doing like CrossFit and Muay Thai, like a lot of volume, I was just always restricting on carbs, apart from on my cheat day that i would even restrict cheat days to like once a month because i wanted to lose weight and i was maintaining my weight but you must have felt terrible i felt like shit yeah and so bad all that training with no carbs and my crossfit um box was like oh it's because you're not eating enough fat you need to to eat spoonfuls of nut

butter. 300 grams a day, go. Drink olive oil. If bulletproof coffee was a thing then, then they would have probably told me to have a whole stick of butter in my coffee. I just was looking worse and worse. I just looked softer. I had access to a bioimpedance scanner, so I would get that every six weeks. I was losing muscle even though I was lifting and doing. I thought I was doing everything right. I just got to a point where I'm like, screw it. This isn't working. After two years, I look worse than from when I didn't even do any exercise. At least you were willing to confront reality. So many people that it takes them longer or they never get around to it. Like

I know this one girl and, um, she, she's really into CrossFit and I don't know, she's gone through different diets. I think now her latest thing is like this stupid 80, 10, 10, where like you just eat absurd amounts of carbohydrate and no protein. She doesn't track numbers. So who knows what her numbers actually are, but that's what she's doing, right? And she looks terrible and just looks worse and worse. But in her eyes, I don't know. She's always posting selfies on the internet.

Like for some reason, she's seeing progress. But when I've had people people I know people that know her like can you what what is she doing I'm like I don't know she she doesn't see what we see she sees something else so maybe she's happy whatever um but yeah I kind of took on a screw the system approach and I just saw from Instagram people eating like pop tarts and ice cream and pizza and looking amazing and it wasn't just like one person it was like if you just like looked at the flexible dieting or iifym yeah hashtag I was like all these girls like have abs and they're eating what they want how why isn't sugar making them fat so i researched like the lean

gains method and um a few different things and i just started having like chocolate and ice cream and it was like as soon as i added in carbs my body was like thank you and i just like lost weight really easily um and then that i had stopped CrossFit at the same time because I was like, I can't deal with this paleo nonsense anymore. And I went to a coach. Well, you were like persona non grata then. You're like, she quit paleo, she did this. It's like a religion.

It's like I left the church of crossfit and failure excommunicated um but it was just like my savior was um uh weight lifting and flexible dieting and knowing that foods don't have moral values sugar isn't toxic and you can eat what you want. So I have a good idea of like, you know, I have protein with my meals to keep me satiated. I have like the more filling carbs. I don't just go have Pop-Tarts at every meal, but if I want a Pop-Tart, I'll have a Pop-Tart. If I want oats, I'll have oats.

So I have a very balanced approach rather than an all-or-nothing approach now. Yeah, I mean That's the downside. That's the dark side of flexible dieting is that where people use it. Funny in how you found it, it kind of represents the dark side of it, which is that as a point of bragging, like, oh, shit, look at what I just ate. Look what you didn't eat, and look at how I look, and look how you don't look. But a lot of those people are, are funny enough. Like, okay, so you went

down that paleo road and you were misinformed and whatever, but you know, you, you, you were buying into it until finally you were like, all right, I need to, I need to actually see what's going on here. I think that those people are kind of equally diluted in that all they care about is body composition and yeah sure you know you can look a certain way and eat a bunch of junk food you can but what about health what about longevity what about five years from now you know is that good for your body uh yeah and that's where i think flexible dieting is that those are the uninformed flexible dieters that just think it's just macros i don't give give a shit. Like, whatever. I just got to hit my numbers.

Yeah. But in 15 years when your body just is broken because you didn't take care of it because, you know, you've been deficient in all these vitamins and minerals for so many years. And then maybe you're – so, you know, I think the general approach – I still definitely think like food source, like where you get your protein, like food choices matter. Yeah. But it's not like as long as you're getting like good quality protein sources and you're getting like your fiber and you're having feelings like if you're on a cut especially, you're not just going to eat refined carbohydrates because you'll be starving and you'll feel like shit. Also, you're not going to get – how are you going to get your nutrition when your calories are – like a guy that works for me is so stupid when it comes to cutting because he's – he just has a weird relationship with food where he has to eat like sweet stuff every day. Like his dinner, for instance, because he's one of these guys is some lean, lean meat, the leanest meat, like some chicken, just so he doesn't waste any macros on, on this protein and like pie. That's it. Like, and he thinks that's, he thinks that's awesome.

Right. But, but, you know, when your calories are restricted and you're, yeah, it means your body's eating less, less nutrients as it is. You think that in between that and clean eating, that's where it makes sense. Clean eating has its heart in the right place. It just doesn't have science in terms. It doesn't have enough specificity and enough like why are we doing this. And in some areas of it, it does go full retard like you can't have white potatoes but you can have sweet potatoes and white potatoes are like full of micronutrients and they're so satiating yeah and i like they're like my preferred carb source when i'm cutting

because yeah um a lot of nutrients too it It's actually, I think it's like the most nutrient dense food for volume. I think it's at least one of, if not the most. Like, I think it's the, isn't it the one food that humans can live off of indefinitely? Like, I think I remember reading that in a book somewhere.. Maybe that's if you're on a desert island. I don't know. But, yeah. I think if you get like 80% of your food from nutritious – 80% of your calories from nutritious foods, and also you can go to like the standard government advice of whatever it is, a few servings of fruit and vegetables a day, one serving being like a fist or whatever that standard, you know, it's been around forever is that that's actually based on good research. Like people that eat more fruit and vegetables live longer and there's that correlation is there and that's been known for a long time. So that's also like, yeah, you, again, if you want to look at the bigger picture here, there is clean eating as an ideology, as a dogma. That's when it, that's where it just kind of gets like, you know.

Yeah, the ones that say. You can stay healthy. Don't have fruit because it's like. Yeah, because of the fructose. Yeah, the fructose exactly. But yeah, I definitely have, I have, make sure I have fruit and vegetables every day. Yeah, same. And I don't even worry about like the 80% whole foods, 20, because I know

like I don't even have to think about that because if I'm fitting my macros and I'm getting, hitting my fiber number, I'm doing that anyway. Right. So. Yeah, exactly. And that also is a good point that if you are actually following a sensible breakdown of macros, it's hard to, you're kind of forced to eat healthier foods to and and then you're then you can fit in little things but it's not yeah good luck trying to like if all you like to eat is pizza hot dogs and and chocolate with protein shakes good luck trying to even make that work period you know what i mean yeah you're gonna be you're gonna have like a protein shake and then you're gonna have a pizza and then you're gonna have nothing left for the

day except for shakes you're gonna be like quickly you're gonna learn that doesn't work and when you're getting stricter like especially when i was doing comp prep i would like tend to not have um sort of pre-made foods or um take out because you don't like that's just the average like it's not exact. So it could say 10 grams of fat and you could be getting 30. Like, they don't care about your macros. So if you want pizza, like, make it yourself. And you can use, like, a lower fat cheese.

You can have, like, more veggies on it so it's more filling. And then you can make, like, a 600-calorie slice,, like 300 calories, and it's just as satisfying. Yeah, totally. Speaking of low-calorie foods that taste good, have you heard of Halo Top ice cream? I haven't. You need to check this shit out. I just got some yesterday. One pint is like 280 calories.

A pint. And it actually doesn't taste bad. The macros on a pint is like 30 protein, 40, 50 carb, and like 12 fat. And you can get it from Whole Foods? Yeah,

that's where I got it. Free advertisement for Halo Top, because that shit is good. It's not Talenti. Talenti is still where it's at for good tasting gelato, but. Have you ever tried Talenti? No,

I haven't actually. It's so fucking good. I had i had um i'm at um mike picante's apartment at the moment i was here the other night because we were doing we're filming um some videos and we got i got like four pints of ben and jerry's to try the different flavors because i've only ever had one flavor before yeah and then we got arctic zero as well just i heard that shit sucks i heard that just tastes like flavored water it tastes yeah it tastes like frozen water apparently there's like a newer one that's like a little higher in calories and apparently that tastes better but i heard that from someone who's comp prepping so and i know when you're prepping yeah even broccoli

tastes amazing when you're prepping it's crazy put some sugar on it, that's actually really good. I had diet Jell-O almost every day when I was comp prepping for something sweet. And I was like, man, this tastes so good. As soon as I finished, as soon as I competed, I was like, how do I like this? I used to have it in the morning. I used to mix my pre-workout in and put it in the fridge and then have it in the morning. That's clever. Because it was like during my fasting.

There's a product idea. Pre-workout jello shots. Yeah, it was delicious. That's funny. Halo Top. Check it out. It's really good. Yeah.

So I have a few questions that are a few things that I run into fairly frequently from women, different questions or different problems they run into. So let's start at the top here. And one is feeling intimidated by getting into weightlifting as an activity. And then also gyms are kind of intimidating and with all the sweaty, creepy looking dudes all over the place. And then what happens when you go in there and they're always trying to give you advice

or they're staring at you all the time or whatever. I didn't realize that that's as big of a – I guess from just on my interactions with women, especially if they're new to weightlifting where they really want to, it's like a pretty big hurdle to get over, at least psychologically in the beginning. Yeah, definitely. And I experience it even now. I can go into a new gym that I haven't been into before

and even though I know what I'm doing, I can kind of like wander around looking a little lost while I'm trying to find where pieces of equipment are and, you know, people will approach you and try to sort of hit on you or try and tell you what to do. They're trying to help you out. Yeah, but a lot of people are just genuinely trying to help. Like they don't want you to feel like you're lost.

A lot of people feel like, oh, everyone's looking at me like I'm an idiot, but most people just are staring at the mirror in themselves most of the time and they don't really care either way what you do. They don't, um, they aren't judging everyone. They're probably just as self-conscious as you. Um,

for girls, like there's always the option of going to a female gym. There are a lot of like women only gyms. If you are like really concerned about being around males or there's like the women's weight room. But, um, or there's like the women's weight room but um honestly it's like once you start going you'll realize that it's not a scary thing it's everyone's there for the same reason and um wearing some big over the ear headphones if you don't want to get

bothered is a good idea yeah um and just go in in, do your program, get out of there. Yeah, yeah. That's generally what I tell women is that a lot of the times if the guy, if guys are, you feel like they're looking at you a lot, it's not because they're, you know, talking shit about you or even thinking negative thoughts a lot of the time, especially if you're training hard and you're actually like, you're not, you know, just dicking around.

It's because you don't see that very often in gyms. Yeah. So a lot of times they're like, they they're like they're like you know respect you know what I mean like you're actually like you're actually lifting some heavy ass weight yeah yeah like she's actually trying and then and then also I don't know guys are just biologically programmed to if a girl looks good I mean you just it just is what it is she's gonna get looked at but whatever girls that look good are used to that anyway, really. Yeah. Yeah.

Sometimes just, yeah, you've got to deal with it. Yeah, and also I think at first it's going to be a bit awkward. You're going to be learning different exercises and like any activity. I find that you compare weightlifting to a sport and it's way less awkward because you're in there by yourself. You're just doing your thing. At first you're actually, you know, you don't, you're learning form and your weight sucks and you you're, maybe you're all wobbly on squats, even though you just are using the bar, but you know, it was a take a few weeks to get really in the groove to where you feel comfortable with everything. And you, at least, you know what you're doing. That's, that's nothing.

You know, I grew up playing sports and with sports, you come in, you're the new kid you come into, especially if you're new to the sport, you're sports you come in you're the new kid you come into especially if you're new to the sport you're on a team you're the worst player on the team nobody likes you because you're just bad and every time you're out like I played ice hockey growing up so every time like in the beginning and I just accepted I just knew like I was nobody cared about me because I sucked I was just you know learning to play so every time I'm on the ice I'm like the rest of the team looks at me as if i'm holding them back like what if someone else better were just in my spot then they would we'd be playing better so in the grand scheme of things it's pretty it's pretty mild like you're not you're at least you're not like the black sheep and everyone's like why the fuck do we

have to have him you know what i mean and you gotta remember um as well it's it's practice it's not like you're going in to a competition every time you go into the gym you just have to get like one percent better every time you don't have to um be the best person in there it's just it's practice it's not like if you stuff something up well then like that's a lesson that you're learning for next time and you're only going to get better. So the more you go in and just tackle your fears, then the easier it's going to get. Yeah, yeah. Those are important points also that one, don't get too into comparing yourself to other people. This is maybe a bit more applicable to guys.

maybe a bit more applicable to guys, but I mean, I guess it's just cause, cause guys, I mean, I'll hear from guys now and then that are emailing, especially they see these transformations on the internet and they wonder, you know, well, why haven't I made progress like that dude? And cause in many cases you don't know what you're looking at. Um, a lot of the transformations, especially when there's a lot of money on the line, like someone's going to win a hundred thousand dollars, then you better believe they're going to be doing everything they can, every drug they can get their hand on. Yeah. Going to extremes. Extremes. But also like, you know, you know, the whole, the whole game is all right. So it'd be like someone like me, let's say right now I stopped training for, I do nothing and I just get fat. I just eat food for like six months and then I just look terrible. So that's the beginning of my

transformation. But I have, you know, whatever, 13, 14 years of weightlifting experience. And now I'm going to start my transformation, my four-month or six, three-month, whatever transformation. I'm going to take every drug that I can. And I'm going to have muscle memory. And so within three months, I'm going to go from, like, disgusting to just, like, fitness model because – but, you know, know all that backstory. You just go, damn, he looked bad. And then, you know, three months, four months, whatever, you like that's that what the fuck why can't i do that yeah and i actually know a trainer that this is quite bad they posted on their instagram um one year transformation and it was actually

he posted photos that were three years apart and he's done a lot of drugs that like I know that trainer and I've seen him change and yeah, he's not natural and he posts this like by diet and training programs off me because that's how I got my physique. And I'm like, no, actually, that's not how you got your physique. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of that too as well. I'll run into that even because I get people that email me that have, you know, been on a program of mine for just in a book. I mean, I don't even charge. I don't do workout programs for people. I just say, hey, you can, you know, spend $10, read this book.

That's what I would tell you to do anyway. So why do I need to charge you more for that? And so I'll hear from people all the time. They'll send me pictures. And, you know, I can't personally verify. There are some times where I'm like, well, they'll say, oh, six months. And I'm like, I don't know about that.

I'm gonna go check their Instagram. I'm gonna actually see. And then I've run into every once in a while, there's somebody that tries to fudge numbers. But for the most part, people that are reaching out to me are honest and that's cool. But that's because what's their incentive to lie? But sure, when you have,

when there's money on the line, I run into that. The more money there is on the line, the more shitty people are going to be out there bullshitting basically. And, you know, I see that in an extreme sense being in the supplement industry. Cause I've, I've a line of where I have a company line of workout supplements. And, you know, I know just through people and people in this space that do, you know, their companies, they're selling pills in a bottle, shit, garbage, and, but they're doing a hundred plus million dollars a year in sales. And when there's that kind of money on the line, I mean, the, the, the lengths that these guys go to, to, to scam and to be shady would blow your

mind. Like they it's, it's a full on like, you know, government operation status. That's how scammy these guys get. And you know, so. And you got to remember like, especially people in the fitness industry, it's their job, like it's their job to look good. And they like have the extra time.

They have all the knowledge like available to them and they're like training different people every day. So they're learning from their clients as well. So it's like their whole life is sort of revolved around like staying in shape whereas, you know, if you are working long hours and you're in a shitty environment where people are like, wait, there's always, um, like unhealthy choices around and it's hard to get a workout in. Um, maybe like the extreme workouts and the,

um, extreme, uh, like, like the crazy diets that, um, someone who's extremely dedicated and has all this time and, um, but also, I mean, those extreme diets are diets are are related to like you can't do you can't do that you can't be in a huge calorie deficit and uh still retain muscle and lose you know whatever 20 pounds of fat in in two months or something like that without drugs like you just can't do it and that's that's where like i before I was, like, I remember saying to my coach, I'm like, oh, I don't know if I can do it because, like, all the, like, fitness models and the girls around me that I used to look up to, I realized that they're taking, like, all this stuff. And that's why they're clean eating diets that they don't even track macros. That's why they work. Exactly.

And they're shitty exercise programs. But, you know, I did a 20-week prep. I didn't rush it. I did everything like a reasonable way and didn't do... Like I worked out four times a week and looked after my body and then afterwards I didn't have a crazy rebound like everyone else because I did it in a sustainable way. So I think it's just a matter of getting out of this I want it now mindset

and then thinking how can I make this whole process really enjoyable and looking at sort of non-scale victories. So getting stronger, getting more confident in the weight room, other things like that, and not just focusing on, Oh, I don't look like this person yet. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And that's, I was speaking to, to that point. Um, that's a, an important point of just that, like for me, if I get one more rep with whatever, let's say like, I'm always starting my workouts with heavy compound stuff. So if I, uh, you know, if I get one more rep on my heavy squats or I get one more rep on my heavy deadlifts than I did over the last week. And even if the rest of my workouts exactly the same,

if I can't do anything better, then I'm happy with that. Like I got a little bit better. Cause I know that if I can do that again next week and do it again next week, then I can go up and wait. And so that's just the, that point of, yeah, instead of comparing yourself, like you're in there to do your workout and just try to get a little bit better. Just even if that means one rep more on one exercise, that's a little bit better. And you know, it's not that you have to be jumping up and down for it, but, uh, that's progress. Yeah. I just say, yeah, like one percent better every day and um I find that if you're always fixated on this end goal that it's really hard to stay on track because it's it's like you're tying your happiness to this future physique or this future goal whereas if you have like daily and weekly goals

so maybe like you can pick one thing like or um with my training like i just need to um like get to the gym and be consistent and um make progress with my weights each week or maybe i know that i sometimes screw my diet up on the weekend by snacking after dinner so maybe that goal is just to not snack after dinner. Right. So you can have like a small win each day rather than just thinking, I'm terrible right now and I'm only going to be happy when I get to this goal.

Yeah, just looking in the mirror and being like, what the fuck? Yeah. And then with the weight fluctuations as well, that girls will weigh themselves and be like, oh no i'm like half a pound heavier yeah i'm like i know a guy that way a guy a guy that weighs himself at like 4 p.m every day and if his if his weight is above a certain number that he has set like

that's the it's his number or whatever he just stops eating he's not a fitness guy he's actually like he's i don't know but that's just like, okay. That's psychologically healthy. Okay. Yeah. If you are going to weigh yourself, like it's just one metric, like you don't use it as your only metric. And, um, I say like first thing in the morning before you eat or drink and after you've gone to the bathroom, because that's going to be more accurate than like you drink water you eat a meal you work out like your weight's going to change so yeah and also um i like averaging like taking seven or ten days of weight and getting an average and that's really what you want to see changing because then the day-to-day fluctuations don't mess with you so much and also speaking to that i like to see mean, probably anybody gets started to get used to your

body. You see that your weight is in a, in a range. Like if you're maintaining, obviously, if you're wanting to lose weight, you want to see that average going down over time. If you want to gain weight, you want to see it going up. But if you're just looking like right now, you know, for the past, I don't know, six months or so I've been kind of just maintaining, um, I'm fairly lean and I kind of just like the way my body is now. So I just kind of stay like that. I don't see any reason to bulk and I can, if I need to get really lean for something, I'm four weeks away from that. So I just like to see that on the morning, my weight just somewhere between one 89 and one 91. And that's just where it is every day, depending on

water, depending on sodium, potassium, carbs, whatever. But, uh, you know, and that's, so I'm not like, if I were to consistently be weighing 194, well then I know like, I must've done something wrong. I ate too much or something. Something's wrong. But you know, it's like, you're never, it's never going to be spot on and weight loss is not, and weight gain, uh, is not always a linear thing. It's not where you just get to, every time you wake up and step on the scale you get to see oh i lost another 50 grams of fat you know what i mean yeah and sometimes like you have like a high carb free feed day and you'll be heavier the next day and then the day after that you'll be like two kilos lighter than you were before it so it's like don't think that um like daily fluctuations are anything to go by.

An average is always going to be better. Yeah, totally. Yeah. All right. So let's move on to the next point here. So let's talk about water retention when cutting, when dieting to lose weight and how that is. I mean, everybody has to deal with it, but girls have to deal with it more than guys. What are your, what's your experience with that?

How does it go and how do you deal with it? Um, and without, you know, cause I'll, I'll, I hear from women quite often where if they're, if they're not expecting it, uh, they just, you know, the two, the two most common things are, um, when they start dieting, they don't lose any, their weight doesn't change for the first few weeks. Uh, and, and then all of a sudden you have this whoosh effect where overnight they suddenly lose three pounds and then, and then it starts to become a bit more regular. So it's a strange, just something I've noticed working with a lot of women. And then, and then of course there's the period issue with all the water that comes and then

knowing to just not weigh yourself during that period. Just, I, that's my general advice. I don't even have anything better to say. Just like, just ignore the scale for that period. That's my general advice. I don't even have anything better to say. Just ignore the scale for that period. I don't even know what to say because there is no hope. Yeah, because when it's that time of the month, even if you, like the day before, I don't know, like our crazy hormones, even the day before, if you look exactly the same the next day, you can look in the mirror and look the same, and you'll be like a tiny bit heavier,

and you're like, oh, my God terrible like nothing's working and then like after that you'll again you'll look the same and you're like oh no actually I look great but it's just yeah like your head messes with you and um you've got to know that it is just water weight so So I say don't weigh yourself around that time and just make sure like you're really consistent with your macros and your training. Again, I never really say like your scale weight is a good indicator of progress. Waist shrinking and mirror are going to tell you a lot. Yeah. And waist shrinking and mirror are going to tell you a lot. Yeah.

And I do photos, waist measurement, and weight measurement. So if we do, say it's like you get your period on like the first of every month. So maybe that will be your day that you like have a week off like weighing yourself. Then the next week I'll do waist measurement the next week do scale the next week do photos and so then every time you take photos it's like four weeks apart so you can see the difference yeah um and then it gives you like three good metrics um to go by and i noticed like as i was cutting down I would be doing everything perfect and I would be like, why isn't this working? And then, like you said, all of a sudden you'll drop, like, two or three pounds and then it'll just keep coming off, like, a lot faster. And it's like –

I found that with women particularly, there – because, you know, you're dealing with difference. It's a hormonal difference. So that's the main difference where the more like more estrogen means more water retention. And also, I mean, I haven't, I haven't worked with women that are getting regular blood work. So I can't say that, uh, with, with cortisol levels that they are necessarily higher with women because obviously dieting puts your body under stress. Cortisol goes up, your body starts to hold more water, but I would, I wouldn't be surprised if there was something related to cortisol but the long story short is because of the hormonal environment women are just more predisposed to holding water is there anything that you found besides just keeping your sodium

potassium in check or at least balanced not not dramatically fluctuating is so anything you found helps uh uh keep minimize it i guess just um uh higher fiber um so make sure that you are hitting your fiber numbers um high water intake um so don't just drink coffee all day and not drink any water yeah um and on the fiber just just in case listeners are wondering i think the standard recommendation is like i think on a 2000 calorie diet it's like 40 grams a day i want to say give or take yeah i think less less for less calories obviously yeah i usually aim like 30 to 35 makes sense um and the other thing when I was doing clean eating, I was bloated all the time and I'm like, what the hell? And then I was having like 90 grams of fiber a day.

I was like, no wonder I was bloated all the time. Yeah, that's just so, just holding water. So you're just like. And then, so that's like why I switched to like more Pop-Tarts and refined carbs. And I was like, oh, my stomach's so flat. I feel like lean. Maybe I should just stick to the pop tart diet all the time. Um,

but yeah, so hit your fiber number. Don't go crazy with the fiber. Um, and then, um, obviously with cortisol, you're going to like retain a little bit more water.

So just make sure you're not super stressed. Obviously like dieting is a stressor. Training is aor it's good to have some stress but um life stuff you know it all it all adds up yeah so um i recommend like if you can do like yoga or just some like i'm not like a spiritual person but some meditation um you can just get like the guided meditation and you can wake up and listen to it before you go to bed and it'll help you sleep better. Sleeping good is really important. So if you're trying to gain muscle or lose weight, just prioritize sleep. Don't think my training and diet is perfect so I don't need to worry

about anything else because your sleep has a huge impact. perfect so I don't need to worry about anything else because your sleep has a huge impact. So just make sure that you're keeping everything in balance and do something that as well like the meditation is good. So just like taking a bath or like essential oils like lavender oil and there's the G oil. I forget the name. It's like some geranium. I don't know it's not that anyways there are there are a few oils i've written about it even essential oils that

have a bit of research that show that they actually relax the body um well anything that is like an activity that relaxes you like for me it's horse riding because i have horses um for my old boss it was um going to fly his helicopter. So maybe he can go steal a helicopter. Grand Theft Auto shit. Go steal a car. That's not stressful. Cool, cool.

So let's talk hunger and cravings because, again, these are things that everybody has to deal with. But in my experience, it seems that girls have to deal with them a bit more, particularly cravings. So what's your take on that? What do you see working with people, and how do you help them stick to it? Okay, so if you're getting cravings, make sure that your carbs aren't dramatically low. that your carbs aren't dramatically low and if they've been really low for some time, like maybe implement a refeed day or eat a bit closer to maintenance because you're going to be hungry if you're in a big deficit all the time. And then make sure fats aren't too low.

So having a good balance, get enough protein but don't have like ridiculous amounts of protein. Just I usually like a gram per pound for girls is like plenty. And for everyone, I mean, really? Yeah. Yeah. Like there's no really real reason to go more than that. I guess the only caveat to that is i've never written about this there's uh there

was a particular paper that i had that was i think it was from it might have been in australia it was like aut university but um is if in the case of people that are already very lean and uh or or lean like if a guy is let's say 10 or under and he wants to get really lean or a girl's 19 20 under and very active there it be, there may be more muscle preservation if you go a little bit higher, like upwards of 1.1 grams, 1.2 grams per pound. But again, it's a minor difference. We're talking about a few more bites of protein each meal. It's not like you have to go to two pounds, two grams per pound or something. Yeah. Um, and sometimes people have like a preference to have more protein over anything else.

I know like I hit my protein numbers really easily. So sometimes I'll have a little bit higher, but as long as I make sure like I'm getting enough carbs because protein is satiating, but only like to have enough of it. It's, it doesn't get sort of of it's not more satiating than anything else if you're having like excessive amounts so you're having like it's also not energetic carbs are energetic that's the whole point they give you it's the it's the easiest source of energy for the body so you'll find that you know go back to you're going back to your past when you're on that all that low carb shit and how bad you felt yeah you're sure you're eating a lot of protein though yeah i was always

like drew it was drilled into me you've got to have your protein like protein protein every meal like six times a day and i used to do the same thing i know like where protein shakes are double or triple scoop and you're like oh they're chugging them down like yeah and you've got to have your like post-workout shake as soon as you finish your exercise, otherwise all your muscles will fall off. Yeah. Then choosing satiating foods as well.

So if you are in a surplus and you are trying to fit more food in, have more refined things that aren't as filling. But if you are trying to fit more food in, have more refined things that aren't as filling. But if you are trying to cut down and you don't want to be starving all the time, then have things that are high in water content and fiber like oats, veggies, lentils, like legumes, fruit. I find having an apple in between meals is really satisfying. I think the texture as well.

Yeah. Like it just keeps you going until the next meal. Yeah. And then whole food sources of protein. If you're having like Quest bars and protein shakes all the time, it's not because it's sort of, you don't have to digest it as much. So yeah, it's not something that gets it. There's quite a bit of research that it shows that food volume is actually what is satiating. It's not the calorie content, it's the volume of what you're eating. So, and this is, I wrote

about this recently, I forget where I originally ran across it in a book and then it was looking into the research and it makes sense. Uh, but that, that's really what your body's responding to is like you could like in one of the studies, um, it was, there was, there was a shake, um, that, uh, that had a certain number of calories. I read this a while ago, so I'm just kind of like, whatever off the top of my head. And then the other one was like whipped with air. So it looked, the volumes were the same, but it was, but the shake that was whipped with air had like half the calories and they were equally satiating. So there's interesting studies like that. There's another study done with hamburgers that showed that the, as long as the volume was the same, you know,

you could, the hamburger could be a, could be like two thirds of there, even a half of the calories because a lot of that volume was provided by vegetables. And people still felt just as satiated. So filling your stomach up is the priority as you're saying. That's where my diet jello came in handy when I was cutting because it would feel like a full meal and it's like hardly any calories yeah and i sometimes i would put my pre-workout in it or i could put some like fruit in it if i wanted to like have some more like texture um and there's like a bunch of recipes that you can use it in so and i know over here we don't have this in australia but you can get like the diet pudding

that's like the same it's like gelatin and whatever and there's like a whole bunch of flavors that is though like i always joke that shit's just straight cancer it's like the walden farms syrup what the fuck is that actually like i know some things are i don't even i just i just don't even know some things are off my list i list. I'm like, that was created, you know, like there's nothing even potentially in nature like that. The Walden's Farms one, like it tastes like chemicals. I haven't even tasted it. Right when I heard about it, I was like,

man, that's got to be bad for you. Someone gave me a whole bunch of them. The only one that tastes okay is the pancake syrup. The rest of the ones, it's just like, oh, no, I wouldn't go there. Yeah, exactly. There's even a point where clean eating, whatever, there is a point where I'm like, eh, that's got to be bad for you. My body doesn't need that.

I don't need syrup that bad. Yeah. Or I'll just use the real thing and deal with it. It's funny. Speaking of chemicals, when I was in Vegas before I competed, I was drinking because I was like, oh, they have diet Dr. Pepper over here. We don't have that in Australia. So I was drinking one of those at the airport with our team.

And I think only two of us were flexible dieters. Everyone else was like a clean eater. And a girl, one of the girls was like, why are you having that? You can't drink diet soda if you're prepping. Had a go at me. Then the other girl who does flexible dieting, she's like, oh, I haven't tried that.

We were both drinking Diet Dr. Pepper. She was giving us an evil stare. Then she goes over and gets Starbucks with the sugar-free vanilla syrup. it's like that has the caramel coloring that's the the dude that sucks at cutting that works for me he was doing uh yeah same thing so it has caramel coloring caramel coloring is legitimately carcinogenic like that has been proven that shit is bad you can just google uh caramel color

carcinogen and you're gonna see all kinds of research out there it really just should like something that you just want to stay away from so this dude was doing like yeah two or three pumps that stuff every day until his stomach just started feeling really bad and then he was like and then he finally cut it out and it went away but that shit is bad yeah so yeah it's like people um like to have double standards and they like to tell you that their diet is better than yours. So I like to tell people that just don't be a diet Nazi. Everyone's like the opposite of what you know is also true. So don't think that your way is right and everyone else is wrong. Yeah, and that applies to people that are more – I mean I hate even labeling like it's flexible dieters versus clean dieters but regardless of whatever you're doing i what you

can rest assured is that in 20 years we're going to know that stuff that we're doing right now is not optimal yeah that we're doing stuff that 20 years from now they're gonna look back and be like damn that's dumb so yeah and because science is always evolving and we're learning new things and there's no absolutes there's not it's not like we found this out and this is the one way that's always going to be right it's just always getting closer to some sort of truth so yeah it's yeah you've got to take everything with a grain of salt. Yeah, exactly. And so then on the cravings point, what about – like one thing I always also tell people is an easy way to fight cravings is to eat the stuff that you're craving. Just be tolerant.

Be moderate with it. So what do you crave? You crave chocolate? Yeah, I really like chocolate too. So every day, even when I'm'm cutting sometimes i drop it out because i'd actually rather use those calories for something else but when i'm maintaining you know i have 27 2800 calories a day plenty of room so i'll have anywhere from 150 200 calories of chocolate every day and i'm always trying new bars and like turning into some kind of weird connoisseur chocolate person but but so i i never crave chocolate because i eat it every day yeah i don't restrict

it and um if i crave something like that i'll be like okay i can have this and i can have as much as i want but i'm gonna have it tomorrow sometimes the next day you're like oh actually i don't really feel like it that much anymore or you you can go out the next day and buy buy a single serving size so like the freddo frogs are good because it's like one single serving size and then you're not going to – or like this skinny cow, like you can get like an ice cream cookie, ice cream or whatever. So if you buy a single serving size, don't – if you keep something in the house that you know you tend to overeat,

well, that's just like a recipe for disaster. Yeah. That's a good tip and the other thing eat the same eat at the same times every day so your body's used to okay like I know I'm gonna skip if you skip breakfast like or if you always eat breakfast at 9 your body's gonna be hungry at those times and it's like less stressful for your body if you just have set eating times and then you never sort of get too hungry or too full because you've starved yourself half the day and then you're like oh my god i'm so hungry and then you eat all your calories upon sitting so yeah um just yeah planning ahead and being mindful

hormone entrainment i think is like the technical term is where you're growing in leptin levels your body gets into a rhythm and it just gets used to however you eat is when it wants food yeah and i noticed this so much um going back to sleep if i sleep like less than six hours because um like when i was getting up super early for work i would sometimes be working through the night like just working on articles and things and then i'd have to get up at like 4 a.m or 5 a.m to be at the gym at 5 30 and then i would be so hungry the next day and i no matter what i ate i would still be hungry and i'm like okay it's time for a nap and then I would still be hungry. And I'm like,

okay, it's time for a nap. And then, um, so make sure you're sleeping and drinking enough water. Um, there's, there's research that shows associates,

uh, sleep deprivation with, uh, weight gain or, uh, impaired weight loss because it's, it, your cortisol levels are,

it messes with your cortisol levels. And then the higher cortisol is the more hunger you feel. And, you know, yeah, you can just deal with it. You don't have to gain weight if you don't sleep enough or not but it's it just makes it harder it's like yeah it's making it an uphill battle i've been reading like the the research on it because i've been i'm writing an article at the moment and um yeah like messes with your

insulin sensitivity even short-term sleep deprivation messes with your performance, your ability to gain muscle and lose fat. So yeah, sleep's a big thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. Like how much sleep do you need? If you just don't set an alarm, what, how much do you sleep? Um, I'm pretty good, like seven, seven and a half hours. Um, but if i've like had a lot of stimulants and like deprived myself through the week then i can sleep for like 10 11 hours on a weekend that's intense yeah for for years now uh i just kind of randomly came at some i was the same way or maybe seven hours and the exact same thing but for years now i've i sleep anywhere from five and a half to six hours a night for years. And that's all I actually sleep. Like I don't even have to set an alarm.

I'll wake up after six hours and that's it. And I've had, I've talked with, I actually talked with, it was somebody from, I forget, he was a doctor, a really smart dude. And basically he was saying that like, yeah, the general advice of seven to eight hours is, is, is fine for, uh, for everybody. But if, cause I was wondering like, am I, am I going to ruin my health or whatever? But like, I, am I supposed to just lay there in bed and just be like, well, yeah, I get the same because I wake up in my body always wake. Even if I'm like, I've gone out drinking the night before and I, um, I'm hungover, like I'll just wake up at 5am

or 6am and I'll be like oh I gotta get up now like I've got so much to do and I'll like get up and I'll write an article or I'll do something and I feel like yeah I have to force myself to sleep in if I want to get more sleep. I would pay a lot of money to never have

to sleep again. My life would be complete actually. I'd be so happy. So happy. I think I've said that to people before. I'm like, it's such an inconvenience. It's such a waste of time. And that's when I got to the point where I was sleeping like four or five hours.

But then... I tried. I tried that and I did not feel so good. I tried like for a couple of weeks doing the four to five. And I was like, all right, that's a bad idea. But six know shit i don't know it's been years i'm never tired and uh nothing i don't see any there's no negative side effects and i wake up after six whatever i'm gonna roll with it because it gets me you know a lot of extra time every week to get shit done yeah and

the um the guy who ran who owns the rto where i did my Cert III and IV in fitness to be a PT, he was big on, oh, you don't need to sleep that much. Like Arnie says, if you need more than five hours of sleep, then sleep faster. Who, Arnold said that? Yeah, it's in some like motivational thing. But then this same guy that was saying this is like on a whole bunch of

formative enhancing drugs. He's not going to live to be 80s. Yeah. And yeah, he's huge and he doesn't sleep much but can you get that same result if you're natural? Probably not. So yeah, sleep is important. Yeah. But you know, I guess this is not really a fitness thing.

This is more just a life thing that it takes, it takes a lot of time to, to, especially if your drive is career and you really want to build up something, it just takes a lot of time. Like forget about social life, forget about hanging out with people, forget about doing any of that shit. That and then so, you know, it's got those, you'll find it, at least I found it where, just in not even in this world now, but in just knowing people that a lot of,

I've met a lot of very successful business people and a very common thing I've noticed all of them is they do not sleep that much. They sleep same type of thing, five or six hours. And you get so much done when you're like waking up before people and going to bed later. Because it's like the time where everyone else is asleep. So you're like, it's my time to have distraction-free work time. Yeah, I do it.

I get up early to go because I can get my workout done when the gym's empty. I don't have to wait for anything. It's just the same little crew of people so there's nobody and it's gonna come up to me or it's just like you know it saves a lot of time so yeah i'm gonna roll with it and the other thing is if you want to fit more hours in your day then like a lot of people are like oh i have to train like, seven days a week and I have to do an hour of cardio. If you count your macros and you train smart, then you save so much time. Yeah. And you don't have to like,

I'm sure like everyone has like hobbies or like work that they like, things that they love doing that they need to spend more time on. Don't make your whole, like don't make fitness consume your whole life so that you can never progress in anything else yeah so that's like it's important to have that balance yeah it's very true like uh because i you know i know from before back in the day i didn't really know what i was doing now like relatively speaking yeah i'd

be in the gym for two hours but that's what i thought you know you go to these magazine workouts and that's what they are it takes two hours to do that workout and you thought and if you don't know you just think well that's that's what it takes to get anywhere right and uh and but no it doesn't like even you know uh the most i exercise is probably six hours a week and that's weight lifting and cardio and and i tell people as well that like especially like mothers that I train, you probably don't need cardio if you're like cleaning up after kids all day, carrying a kid around. Or breastfeeding. That alone is like 6,800 calories a day. You can't even – like what else do you want?

800 calories a day? Sign me up. Can I breastfeed some babies please? 800 calories a day? Sign me up. Can I breastfeed some babies, please? And I even, like, sometimes I'll get up, like, when I was doing my comp prep, I had, like, a set amount of calories per week that I needed to do in cardio. If you put your heart rate monitor on and you, like, vacuum your house aggressively and you wash your car, then it's, like... High-int like car washing that's great and yeah it saves you time you can kill two birds with one stone i like that i like

that that's good all right so let's go let's go into one more thing here i don't want to go on forever even though it's fun talking to you um so let's talk about weight training and because standard you know if girls uh that want to to look good, the standard thing is like weights make you bulky and just do a ton of cardio and starve yourself. And eventually you'll look like these Instagram girls or whatever. Obviously, it's not true. So you and your experience tell us about just, you know, let's break it down. So let's talk about weightlifting first weightlifting and and making women bulky what's your take on that okay so usually when you see

women and they kind of like work out and they look bulky it's the fat on top of the muscle that makes you look bulky um when i was losing muscle and i had a lot of fat, I looked like I lifted but I did look bulky. Then as soon as I started, I changed from all this high rep weight training and everything fast and lots of cardio, I changed to low reps, heavy weight, and I tightened up straight away. And the more fat you lose, so it's like if you lose weight and you eat too much, yeah, you're going to look bulky. If you lift weight and eat too much, you'll look bulky. If you lift weight and make sure you're in a deficit, then you're going to look better.

Right, right. Or even at maintenance. Yeah, exactly. It's not necessarily deficit. It depends where you're in a deficit then you're going to look better right so i mean yeah even at maintenance yeah exactly not necessarily deficit depends where you're at i think i think the point is that if and this is what i always tell women is that if you're going to lift weights you have to now be uh you have to care about your body fat percentage you have to like don't get into weight lifting if your body fat percentage is too high and you are not willing to do anything with diet and you just want to eat however you want to eat. And that's it because it's just going to make you look bigger. I mean, that's it.

And if you're maintaining your weight as you're getting older but you're losing muscle, like it's worse for your health. You're going to look worse. So you don't want to just try and get lighter and lighter. You always want to be maintaining or trying to build muscle yeah so um what would you say is like the body fat percentage where what about you personally where you are you feel you look your best like you having some muscle you you have a lot you know a fair a lot of uh weightlifting experience like what's the range where you're like all right this is where i need to be or i just end up looking too big i think like

i would say like from my body fat on like skin calipers which i know isn't as accurate but yeah like probably like 14 to 17 i'm happy. I'm like comfortable there and like, I it's maintainable. Um, if I'm just trying to maintain at the moment, like I want to, I'm competing at the end, like in September.

So I'm like, I don't want to look like as small as I did last time. So I want to, um, gain some muscle. so going into a surplus obviously you're going to be a little bit yeah sure um higher like higher but I still am a lot smaller than I was when I was doing like higher up low weight and doing like silly things with my diet so um yeah definitely like anything between 15 and 20%

for females, I think like is a comfortable, like reasonable place to be. You see all these girls posting photos on Instagram that, um, like a ridiculously low body fat percentage, but you don't realize that it's probably like for a photo shoot or it's comp photos and they're like that for one day that's when they're depleted so um holding no water yeah so it's important tan yeah usually there's diuretics that that's why you got how you get so thin you know what i mean yeah and it's important not to have unrealistic expectations yeah so um yeah i found the same that it seems most women are happiest, uh, somewhere between, I don't know, somewhere around 17%,

give or take. It seems to be like once they've put on, uh, let's say take a girl, she's never done any weightlifting before, just normal girl, whatever puts on over the course of however long it takes, puts on 10 to 15 pounds of muscle and then gets into the 17 ish percent body fat area that seems to be where most girls uh that's the the look that they want where now you look very athletic you look very lean but you have a butt you have legs that have some shape your arms look good you don't just look starved yeah and you look tighter and like more toned and um the other thing is the more muscle you have um the more you can eat without sort of gaining fat so you're going to burn more the higher your bmrs yeah so if you love food i love food and i want to not have to starve myself all the time so

i want to optimize how much muscle i have so um once you look at it like that um like you look at muscle as like a fat burning machine then it's just makes sense to lift weight and don't be going for the the pink um two pound dumbbells and doing a thousand reps. Like that's a waste of time to me. Yeah, it is a waste of time. Yeah. And, and, you know, something that I run into fairly frequently overweight people don't realize is that it doesn't cost that much energy to be overweight. It doesn't, fat is not a metabolically active tissue like muscle. So you can have somebody that actually has a lot of fat and they're not even that physically active. So it's not like their body, it's not like they're carrying it around for, you know, 150,000 steps a day or something like that. They're sitting at a desk or, you know, whatever.

But your basal metabolic rate and your total energy expenditure can actually be quite low, even though you are quite overweight. And that's where you can get these people that they don't eat a lot, but they're overweight. They got there by eating a lot. And now, and then finally they, they, you know, brought it back. And so that's like the shitty maintenance. That's like, you're maintaining a shitty physique, but if you do what you're talking about, where add some muscle, get rid of the fat, it's going to take just like how it took concentrated effort to get that fat. You have to that long, that much overeating, like that takes work. It takes work to get back to a better state.

But then that maintenance is they can eat more than they're eating now and eat different – more foods they enjoy but look exactly how they want to look. It's just – you got to keep that in mind. Like that's the long-term goal you know that's yeah and um when i cut down because i was actually up around like at my highest i was around 30 32 33 body fat so i cut i've like lost a lot of fat and at the same time i've gained muscle and when i was like the leaner i got i was like everything's so easy now like my heel sprints i, I feel so light and I just have more energy because you're not carrying all this extra weight around that you – that's just like – it's dead weight.

Car seatbelts don't give you any problems anymore. Yeah. Little things. Yeah. It just – like I say to people, don't like – it's being a certain weight isn't going to make you happy. But definitely if you stay consistent and you're healthier because you're carrying around less fat, it's going to improve a lot of aspects of your life. And it definitely is worth it.

Yeah, it's like money. Money doesn't make you happy. But life with money is better than life without money. Being fit is not going to make you happy, but it's easier to be happy fit than not fit. Yeah, and it definitely depends how you get there. If you get there in an unsustainable, miserable way, then you're going to be miserable. If you do it the right way, then you can keep going,

like keep cutting for longer and you'll enjoy it. So you won't want to be like screw this like i'm just gonna go back to where i was and eat a pizza yeah um like it's like money if you're a shady piece of shit you make a bunch of money you don't necessarily you know yeah you're not gonna enjoy it as much as if you earn it honestly yeah and i always used to hear oh it's about the journey it's not about the destination and you don't really realize how much that's true until you – Yeah, yeah, yeah. Until you've done it.

Yeah, until you do it the right way. Yeah, I totally agree. Well, awesome. I think I'm going to – we could go on and on. But where can people find you, find your work? They want to reach out to you, get coached, have questions, whatever. Yep. So if you want to find me, I'm pretty active on facebook um facebook.com forward slash

do you even ice cream is my you like ice cream yeah and you haven't tried 20 you need to go go get halo top and go get 20 eat the eat halo top first or it's going to be ruined 20 is is i've actually seen that since I've been over here. So I might – yeah, I'll go. There's a Whole Foods down the road, so I'll go have a look. A thousand calories a pint though, just warning you. Worth it? Yeah, it's fucking delicious.

It's so good. And then icecreamgal.com is where you'll find like my blog posts and articles and things like that. And then I have with Road to Ritz, Gregory O'Gallagher, we brought out an ebook. So kinobody.com forward slash because glutes is my program for females. And yeah,

so if you have any questions about coaching or your, any questions about the show today, you can just shoot me a message on Facebook. That's the best way to get a hold of me. Okay, great. Awesome. Well, thanks for taking the time. Thanks for having me. Sure. Hey, it's Mike again.

Hope you liked the podcast. If you did, go ahead and subscribe. I put out new episodes every week or two where I talk about all kinds of things related to health and fitness and general wellness. Also head over to my website at www.muscleforlife.com where you'll find not only past episodes of the podcast, but you'll also find a bunch of different articles that I've written. I release a new one almost every day. Actually, I release kind of four to six new articles a week. And you can also find my books and everything else that I'm involved in over at muscleforlife.com.

All right. Thanks again. Bye.