Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Don Saladino on How Celebrities and Busy Professionals Train

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

How do Hollywood stars transform their physiques for the big screen? Are Hollywood transformations really achievable without performance enhancers? Can you achieve your fitness goals with limited time and imperfect nutrition? In this episode, I sit down with Don Saladino, an acclaimed celebrity trainer, to discuss his proven strategies for helping high-achievers stay fit. From Ryan Reynolds to Wall Street executives, Don has guided clients to success with personalized fitness, nutrition, and recovery plans tailored to their intense lifestyles. With over 25 years of experience and more than 40,000 one-on-one coaching sessions, Don Saladino has earned a reputation as the go-to trainer for Hollywood stars, professional athletes, and busy professionals. In this interview, you’ll learn . . . How Don trains Hollywood actors and business professionals with limited time. The truth about celebrity transformations and the role of lighting, angles, and discipline. How to design a flexible, sustainable fitness and nutrition plan. Why recovery tools like cold plunges and saunas can improve performance. Practical advice for gaining weight or building muscle while eating nutritious foods. How to balance high-stress lifestyles with optimal health. And more . . . So, if you want to learn how to tailor fitness to your busy life, uncover the real stories behind Hollywood bodies, click play and join the conversation. --- Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (07:52) Busy-life programming (17:59) Custom fitness (20:08) Weight gain tips (26:41) Client go-to foods (38:08) Actors & steroids (44:28) Steroids in Hollywood (51:03) Lighting tricks (55:41) Cutting water (01:01:18) Sauna, plunge, and red light (01:07:07) Don’s supplement stack --- Mentioned on the Show: Triton Bigger Leaner Stronger Energy Drink Don’s February Challenge Information & Registration - Free Access Code: MFL100 for 100% off

It's fascinating to me now how everyone's got this clever way of twisting things and justifying it. Do I think it's in Hollywood a lot? Yes. Do I think you're going to see it in Hollywood more now? Yes, because a lot of these hormones are going to become so easily available to a lot of these actors. And I think it really comes down to who's willing to take that dive or not. And I'm really not working with people one on one anymore. But if I was, I guess it would get to a point where I would be training people probably wouldn't even know about it because they'd probably just keep it from it.

You know, listen, I don't think anyone in Hollywood. This is going to be kind of a kick to a lot of them. But I don't think anyone in Hollywood looks so amazing that I would say that any human being can't do that naturally. Hello and welcome to a new episode of Muscle for Life. I am your host, Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today to hear from Don Saladino on how to make nutrition and exercise work

for very busy people who have very demanding and in some cases unusual schedules. Like for example Hollywood stars who Dawn has worked extensively with but also people who have limited time for nutrition and exercise for other reasons like CEOs and people working on Wall Street and others. And as Don has over 25 years of experience and has more than 40,000 one-on-one coaching sessions under his belt, he has rightfully earned a reputation as the go-to trainer for Hollywood stars, for professional athletes, for busy professionals. And in this episode, he is going to talk about how he approaches nutrition and training with these people. He's also going to talk about celebrity transformations and how what you see on the screen isn't always reality. He talks about

the role of lighting, angles, and yes, he also talks about steroids and he shares his opinion on the role that steroids play in at least some of the more impressive celebrity transformations that we have seen over the years. Dawn talks about how he designs flexible and sustainable fitness and nutrition plans for his clients and more. We will get going with today's episode shortly, but first I need to tell you about the fish oil supplement that I take every day.

It is called Triton and it's from my sports nutrition company, Legion. Now, why do I take Triton every day? Well there are two reasons. The first is fish oil is one of the best sources of omega-3 fatty acids which are vital for reducing the risk of various types of disease, for maintaining healthy levels of inflammation, for supporting mental health and cognitive function and more.

And the second reason is while it is possible to get enough omega-3 fatty acids from your diet alone, it can be difficult to do if you don't regularly eat enough of certain foods like olive oil, avocado, nuts, and fatty fish. And this is why research shows that the average person's diet provides just one tenth of the amount of the omega-3s

that are needed to preserve health and prevent disease. Now, even if you do eat enough of the right foods to get enough omega-3s in your diet to maintain your health, it's virtually impossible to eat enough to enjoy some of the benefits that require a couple of grams per day, like reducing inflammation levels and muscle soreness after exercise. And those two reasons are why I think fish oil is one of the few supplements that basically everyone should consider taking regardless of their circumstances or goals.

And that is why Legion sells a fish oil supplement. And again, it's called Triton. And it's not just any fish oil supplement, of course, because at Legion, we don't ever just do good enough. It is a 100% reesterified triglyceride fish oil made from deep water Peruvian anchovies and sardines caught by fisheries approved by friends of the sea. Now that's a mouthful and it sounds like a mouthful

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that we are looking to get from the fish oil, and significantly fewer contaminants. Now, second, regarding the fish that the oil comes from, small cold water, non-predatory fish like anchovies and sardines are ideal because they can be harvested ethically and sustainably, and they contain the lowest amounts of environmental toxins. And then third, Friend of the Sea is an organization

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who have left it over 1,000 5-star reviews over on Legion's website and Amazon. And if you want to try Triton, you can get 20% off your first order by going to buylegion.com slash Triton, that's B-Y-L-E-G-I-O-n dot com slash Triton and using the coupon code muscle at checkout. And then you get your Triton and if you don't like it for whatever reason, all you have to do is let us know and we'll just give you your money back. You don't even have to send anything back to us. So again, go to buylegion.com slash Triton now, try Triton risk free. And while it will not turbocharge your physical performance

or your mental health or your immune system, it will support many important aspects of your health and wellbeing. Hey, Don, it's nice to meet you. Mike, thanks for having me on this. Yeah, yeah, appreciate it. You have a cooler background than I do. It's not bad.

This is my home gym. It's called The Barn. I built it in 21, so it's a two-floor. I wanted to build a commercial-grade gym in my backyard and just have my friends come in and shoot content out of it. So it's a very cool place and I'm lucky to have it. Yeah, yeah, I love it. I have a house under construction

and I'm gonna build a separate building with a gym and some other stuff. But for now I'm in the rental house, which I love so much. You're lucky to be doing it. We're about to go into a gut rental in like probably the next few weeks. So it's real, but it's definitely a

blessing. You say that now. I thought that going into it. But anyway, so I wanted to have you on to talk about helping people with busy, complex schedules and lives get into shape and stay in the shape. And you've done a lot of that throughout your career. You've worked with a lot of celebrities who have to live that way. You've worked with a lot of people who are busy business people and otherwise. And these people do have some unique

and legitimate challenges. And it's not as like the simple cookie cutter advice that you would give to, let's say a 25 year old kid who has literally nothing but time. They can just sit in the gym for four hours per day. Those are, those are two very different people and you could say, well, yeah, I mean, the fundamental principles, principles apply the same, but yes, how you actually apply them successfully changes though, right?

Yeah, a hundred percent. You know, and you brought up the celebrity angle. I think what most people don't understand is that they think that most of these Hollywood people have private chefs and trainers with them all the time and that everything's just easy. I actually have worked, I've trained over 40,000 one-hour sessions in my life. That's how much coaching I've done since 1999. I was training pretty much 40 to 61 hour sessions a week. I'm known for it. I'm known for the guy who's getting up at 3 a.m.

to open my club at 3.45. I've done more coaching than, there's very few people that I've done more coaching than I have. And so I've worked with different people from Wall Street to the house mom, to professional athletes, to these Hollywood stars. And I think what's interesting about the celebrity is that life is always changing entirely for them.

Where say the Wall Street person is waking up every morning and they are the person they are. Like I'll wake up, even now I wake up, I'm Don Saladino every morning. I'm in my home in Long Island. I have my two kids, my three dogs, my wife, I have my business. I travel, but there's a monotony to my schedule that I'm still Don Saladino. The interesting thing about working with a lot of these celebs, they have to become different characters.

They have to become different people for periods of time. Some of them can't always jump in and jump out of character when we set. Some of them will be more of what they call more of a method actor where they'll kind of stay in role for a couple of months or whatever it is, or they're constantly trying to incorporate this accent, and they're doing it in a different time zone, and they have to learn new skills for the role. I don't know about you, but I didn't grow up sword fighting,

and a lot of my actors that I've worked with who are in the Marvel movies have to suddenly do all these stunts that they weren't accustomed to doing. I think being away from their family and being in these different environments where the schedule is consistently changing. You know, they have to work overnight one night and the next day they're on the day shift. I don't know about you, but my schedule is not like that. Sure, I change time zones. Yes, I'll be in, you know, four or five different countries in the next few months. No problem. That's to me, that's that's easy when you're taking them away from their family and you're putting them into this environment with this new crowd of people

Underneath this stress where if they get sick, they can't take a day off I was coming the other day when I was with Ryan Reynolds on Deadpool. I am, you know, he got walking pneumonia at one point He's not gonna call in and say I'm not coming in right? It's just not this is not like someone working at Goldman Sachs or like, oh, I'm a cold. I'm gonna work from home today It doesn't work that way in Hollywood So if anything, I even find that working with the individual in Hollywood is a bit more difficult than working with professional athlete Because the professional athlete yes, sure they they're getting injured. But so is the actor, you know It's like they're breaking legs breaking wrists. They're trying to do their own stunts in certain scenes. They're

hurting themselves breaking noses in fight scenes, doing things that the general public doesn't see. They're not trained for this, right? Tom Brady was trained to be a quarterback. There's also an incentive for the owner of Tom Brady's team to keep him in the game for as many years as possible, differently, whereas... Yeah, I mean, actors come and go too. So I think there's always that pressure that suddenly some critic is... See, sport to me, I feel like it's really easy because the proof's in the pudding. Like if the New York Mets win a ball game, five-nothing and they go on a winning streak, well, they're doing really well.

And if they make the playoffs for the World Series, well, they're doing really well. And they're, you know, if they make the playoffs for the World Series, well, there's the proof, right? You can have a Hollywood actor that's, you know, has a great reputation, that's something that goes in and does a phenomenal performance. There might be a bad director, right? There might be bad editing. Suddenly the movie, which was supposed to be a series movie,

comes out to become a bit cheesy, or definitely not what they expected. This happens by the way all the time. So I think you know someone's career can get smashed in the blink of an eye. All that has to happen is one interview, one someone catches you in one bad mood and suddenly you know you're a you know you're a terrible person. There is this pressure that I've noticed that Hollywood has. And I'm not, listen, I have no reason to be saying this. I'm completely neutral because I work with everyone or I have worked with everyone. So I think there is a respect that I have for a lot of these actors and what is they have to do. And listen, a lot of them don't exercise,

right? A lot of them when they have to get ready for a movie, they're like, well, they're telling me I have to get stronger and build muscle. they're like, well, they're telling me I have to get stronger and build muscle. I'm like, well, what does that really look like? What do you, well, they said I have to put on 10 pounds. Well, do you have to put on 10 pounds or do you have to just get stronger and appear to have put on 10 pounds?

Because that's, you know, this looks very, very different in my book or it can look very different in my book. Let's go on Google, pull up some pictures of what is the physique that you're trying to create. And it has been interesting for my 25 plus years of working with these people, how many different projects I've had to look at.

And even sometimes it's maybe as easy as, nope, like you're fine, you've got two months, like you're exactly where they want you to be. Just stay healthy and stay resilient and keep energy high. And let's not beat the shit out of you to the point where you're going to go into this, you go into shooting this role, feeling like garbage and feeling exhausted. Let's make sure you have high levels of energy here. We don't have to push, right? So there's always,

it's always a different puzzle according to what you're having to assist in creating. And when you're working with, whether it's celebrities or Wall Street guys or whoever, again, complicated schedule that they're limited on time that they can put to training. They don't necessarily have access,

easy access to perfect nutrition. Practically speaking, if you get down to the tactical level, how do you make that work for these people? When you're creating their training, when you're creating nutrition plans, what are some of the things you're thinking about and how you lay that out? For anyone listening who maybe lives that kind of life.

Yeah, I mean, you're saying creating, right? You've got to get creative. It doesn't always mean that you have to come in with your A plan, right? I don't even know what my A plan is. Is it what I do to myself every day? Is it the lifestyle that I live 365 days a year? Like I could tell you that most, you know, of the actors or people I've ever worked

with will not approach it the way that I approach it, right? So I think it's looking at where they are, understanding their overall health, their overall energy, basic things like sleep quality, digestion, stress levels. And then from there, you're in a way, a coach is a chef, right? Like when a chef is going in and preparing a dish, they're gonna try different things and they're gonna taste and they're gonna see what works

or what makes the most sense or what they're looking to create. It's the same thing that if you have a coach that's good enough, that coach is going to be able to look at the individual and the lifestyle they live and then determine based off of their training history, amount of time they have, what type of personality they are, right?

Like is this someone that's gonna follow rules or is this someone that's really gonna struggle? And you take all of these things into consideration. And then as a coach, you have to make a good determination on what you want to assign to that person. If I turned around and I took my plan and every person I came in who wanted to get ripped or in shape and said, here, I don't think I'm gonna be

very successful with many people. Because a lot of people are gonna look at that and just say, shit. Yeah, they don't need a coach for that. They can just buy a PDF online. Yeah, and who knows if that even works. I think the magic really comes down to understanding, like, is someone, what are you trying to create?

Like, when I have to get ready for a cover of Muscle and Fitness, which I've been on three times since 2018, I didn't get a lot of time to get ready. I had four, maybe five weeks tops. My next four to five weeks, there's gonna be no variability. There is literally, there is no cheat cheat meals There's not a sip of alcohol

anyway, but You know, it is strict macros training and gone, right? Sometimes they go into these roles with people and according to their personality It's like alright, we're not far off like that cheat meal that you like every Saturday night Keep throwing that in right where and they're like, but, but, but, I'm like, no, listen, seriously, like if we can look at you about four to six weeks out, and if we have to tie things up, like the production company right now is telling us

you're right around where you need to be, and I want you to keep your sanity, unless it's something where you're trying to prepare for a cover, or you're like, no, I do not want to do that, I want to do this, let's allow yourself to be successful. It's like these new year's resolutions that everyone's jumping into right now, right?

They want to dive all in and not give themselves any relief. And the next, you know, in a few weeks, a lot of them can't keep up, keep up statistically. So yeah, I think this is so individualist. It's so personal, right? It's, there's, I sell programs online. I've got my website. We host challenges. But the reason why I do the

challenges is because I'm able to coach large group of people and, and talk to them and say, no, we need to adjust x, y, and z. And we need to tweak their nutrition. And it's, it's very rarely is it a one size fits all. Can you give some examples? I mean, again, it doesn't have to be celebrities, but just maybe a few different examples of approaches that you will take with people, both on the training side and the nutrition side,

where it's like, well, here's a type of person I work with, and here's how we tend to approach the training and nutrition versus here's another type of person. Right, well, I'm gonna have to use names because most people aren't gonna know, you know, Joe Schmo from who lives down on Bowery, right? So you know, I think Ryan Reynolds is a great example because he, you know, he's kind of a robot. We've been training together for 16 years where when it's time for him to get

in shape, you know, we're in there and we're assessing him and just kind of looking at where he is, how his body's feeling. And at that point, it's, it's what can we assign to him where he's going to be successful, right? Meaning like, he's going to enjoy, like I want everyone to have who's training to enjoy the feeling they have when they leave. And what are we trying to create? Right? Are we, you know, do we need to just tighten up or do we need to develop the physique a little bit more or get a little bit bigger or smaller or leaner? What is it exactly? So, you know, someone like that I find it's really easy with because he's kind of a robot.

We just kind of put him on cruise control and he's dedicated to discipline. He runs and I've had other people who've come to me where we're like, oh my God, we actually have to put on body fat. The role you're trying to train for right now, you're way too ripped. Like this is not believable at all.

And he's like, I know, like this is not the physique of someone back in the 1920s. I'm like, yeah, like this is not,vable at all. He's like, I know, like this is not the physique of someone back in the 1920s. I'm like, yeah, like this is not, this doesn't make sense. So how do we do this now while keeping you healthy? And how do we do this? Because you love to move and you love to train. So let's continue to train, but how are we gonna make some adjustments

to where we're not just eating McDonald's every day, where your health's gonna be poor, right? Like we still, I want us to get fiber and I still want us to have nutrient-dense foods, but there's certain things with calories that we're gonna have to offset a bit that's gonna drive things up. And you know what?

Sure, you want a little ice cream every night, I got no problem with it, right? Like, choose an organic ice cream so we're not getting all the chemicals, but the additional fat, the additional natural sugar, certain things like that can contribute to you getting a little softer, and can contribute to retaining a little bit more water. But again, food quality, I always like to keep

as high, right? What are what are sorry to interject, but this is a question that I've just gotten many times over the years from usually from guys, sometimes from from women as well, who struggle to gain weight while also eating mostly nutritious foods where they don't want to just try to drink a gallon of milk a day because they're going to just throw up where they don't want to just try to drink a gallon of milk a day because they're going to just throw up or they don't want to just eat fast food. Are there certain kind of go-to foods that you like to include in a meal plan? Just getting calories in a nutritious way? Yeah, I'll start with this first. Gaining weight is incredibly simple and people overlook

it because when someone knows they have to get into a bulking phase they think it's this free period where they can just eat. And even there's many people that I track with and there's many people that I don't track with so I'm never going to say that tracking is something that we have to do with everyone. Tracking allows me to remove guesswork. Tracking allows me to truly look and understand someone's nutrition. Tracking can allow me to suddenly start bumping up calories and doing it in a way that's very quantifiable.

Proofs in the pudding. If you're putting it in and I just saw you had 3,200 calories today, then that's broken down to however we have the macros broken down, protein, fats, and carbs. It's down there. I can now regulate that what someone's just eating intuitively for me it becomes a little bit difficult because well no I eat healthy I eat chicken and broccoli and sweet potato and I get my good fats and my avocado and no I eat my whole eggs and I have a good amount of fiber and fruits and berries and they're listing all these healthy foods but the reality is is I don't know how much energy they're putting in their body, right? Are you eating those

foods and getting 1500 calories, you're eating those foods and getting 3000 calories. That's a completely different thing. So I think how I approach it is it's just math. It's very simple and I'll do this in a very, I'll be as simple as possible. If I'm working with someone and the goal is for them to get 200 grams of protein, making this number up right now just for just for math purposes. 200 grams of carbs and 100 grams of fat. So what is that? The 100 grams of fat would be 900 calories, the 200 grams of carbs is 800 calories. The 200 grams of protein is 800 calories because it's four calories per gram, right? So now if we have a total, adding that

all up, that's 16, 26, 25. So that's 2,500 calories, right, for all the macros. If someone's consuming 2,500 calories a day and if they turn around to the first meal and they just pig out and say they get 1,000 calories in, they might be so full for the next five hours that they can't, they don't eat for the next five hours. Now that window is really diminishing on how many calories. And 2,500 in my book is easy because it's much lower than if someone's coming to me with like 4,000 calories. That becomes much more complicated.

That can be a difficult number though. Take it's a small woman, say she's shorter and she's not very large. Let's say she weighs 100 pounds. 100%. I had a woman who started with me and my challenge community that was consuming 1400 calories a day and over probably a year, year and a half span, and I have testimonials on this, we got her up to, she was this active, we got her up to 3,200 calories and she ended up over time losing like over 30 pounds. So it was because we couldn't put her in any more of a deficit, we in time built her metabolism, built her energy level, got her moving more, had her protein high, probably put on some muscle and all these good things happened.

But let's go back to those macros. So if you're very simple, so everyone who's listening to this, think about it. 200 protein, 200 carbs, 100 fat, to me that's simple math. Now how many times a day do you wanna eat? Well, if you're eating five times a day, right, for 200 grams of protein,

how many grams per meal is that? 40, right? 40 times five is 200. For carbs, how many grams per meal is that? 40, right? 40 times five is 200. For carbs, how many grams is that? 40. And five meals a day into, you know, 100 grams of fat, that's gonna be 20 grams a meal. So right now, if you're eating five times a day,

you know that if you eat 40 grams of protein, 40 grams of carbs, and 20 grams of fat, if you do that times five, you're gonna hit right on that 2,500 calories, 200 grams of protein, 200 grams of carbs, 200 grams of fat. Simple math. Now, give or take, if you're off a few grams,

do I care? The answer is no. Now, if someone wanted to eat four times a day, the math changes, right? Four times a day, the protein's now gonna go to 50, the carbs are now gonna go to 50, and the's now going to go to 50, the carbs are now going to go to 50, and the fat is now going to go to 25 grams a meal. It's just math. So I think the mistake we make when we're trying to gain and lose weight is that we just go into it with an

approach of like, oh, I'm gaining weight, I'm just going to eat a lot. I'm going to eat a lot. I'm just going to pick out someone like a young kid's waking up at eight, nine in the morning, and they're eating like eggs. Oh yeah, eggs and protein. I'm gonna have to give me five whole eggs with bacon. With the rib eye, with the bacon, with a stick of butter. Yeah, exactly. And the next thing you know, they've consumed so many calories

that for the next five, six hours, they're not hungry. They're not able to eat, right? And then we've eliminated all of that opportunity to consume all this nutrition that we need. For me, eating isn't only about macronutrients, it's about the nutrition that we're getting, the micronutrients. So if I'm just having white rice, that's a great carbohydrate for me. But if I just have that alone, there's no nutritional value to that. There's no fiber, there's no vitamins, there's no minerals. So I'll have the white rice, but you'll see that during the day I'm also having the sweet

potato, the berries, the oats. The white rice might be just because I can eat a lot of it. I need to have my carbs up, you know, typically throughout the day. So I think for most people listening to this, if you're trying to gain or lose weight, tracking can become very beneficial. It's not necessary for everyone, but the tracking is gonna eliminate so much of that guesswork, and then someone like me

is gonna be able to look at, well, how much fiber are you getting? Wow, you're a woman consuming 15 grams of fiber a day. That's just not enough. Well, what do I need to be? 25, let's get that up. In a few weeks, suddenly she's like, oh my God, I feel fuller.

I'm not craving crap at night. I'm starting to lose weight now. I'm like, you see, funny how that works, right? As we start improving that nutrition, good things happen. So in reference to weight gain and weight loss, a lot of times if you can't figure it out, think about the line I just said to you. It's just that. And as far as individual foods, have you found that there are certain foods you like to at least try out with clients?

And that could be for losing weight or gaining weight. Like, for example, I'll just throw one out there. When losing weight, obviously, the more nutritious fiber containing foods you can eat, the better they keep you full. And something, a tip that I actually got this from Menno Henselman's that I've, to give him credit, and forwarded long. He had commented in an interview that he did that it's a zucchini soup is what he would recommend this to a lot of his clients because for some reason he was just commenting that zucchini in particular, you can eat so much of it in a soup and it just seems to be very

filling. So that was just a random thing that Menno had commented. Not that there's anything special about zucchini. It's interesting. No, no, it's interesting. And obviously I don't know him, but I've heard the name and I know he is respected. I know he's smart.

He's a very smart guy. Like soup for me is just something that's very difficult for me to track and keep track of, you know, to keep stay on top of the things I'm putting in my body. Now zucchini, it's kind of a free food, right? You can eat that over and over and over. But does that mean someone could just go into a restaurant if they're serving zucchini soup? Oh, we don't know if there's sugar in that or salt in that or a whole may yet.

Okay, fine. So yeah, but I just want to say that make sure that no one gets. Well, that means I'm keep me soups on the menu Let me order ten of them and they're suddenly getting all this other stuff. It's really it's really creamy. Oh, it's good Yeah Yeah, I think when someone's trying to get leaner or say this and say if I have to try and get leaner There's certain foods. I'll probably need more towards. If I do decide to take myself in a little bit of a deficit,

I feel like foods that I don't need as much might be the stuff, you know, like the jasmine rice, right? And maybe it primarily becomes sweet potato or maybe if I'm in somewhat of a little bit of a bulking phase, I will have some sort of like a fibrous sprouted bagel just to be able to like bump up carbs and it's very palatable, meaning like you can just eat it like brown rice, eat a lot of brown rice, it's very difficult. Eight ounces of sweet potato, man, you're not getting a lot of carbohydrates there. What is that? Like 50 grams of carbs maybe? And so think about that in comparison to about the same,

what would appear to be the same amount of white rice, you're getting way more carbohydrates from white rice. So I know there's foods that when I have people bulking, they're still very healthy foods, medjool dates, right? They're like a little secret of mine where they're so easy, high in fiber, high in sugar. But if you're in somewhat of a bulking phase, pumping these in around workout time, getting five dates, I mean, that's like 100 grams of carbohydrates right there.

How easy is it now to eat five dates and then bump your macros up? So I do know that in bulking phases, you will see a little bit more leniency in the world of those specific foods that I will incorporate but when it's time to get cover ready you know if I'm 215 pounds now and the covers I'm on I'm like 207 that's not a lot of weight for me but still by tightening up the type of food I'm consuming I do find that I can create a level of dryness in my body without actually having to dehydrate my body of water. So the last four shoots I went to,

three with MNF, one with Men's Health, I think it was in that 2018 span, I didn't dehydrate my body at all. So I wanted to go in there with something that's very attainable, that I'm 2018 span, I didn't dehydrate my body at all. So, you know, I wanted to go in there with something that's very attainable, that I'm proud of. I've been a drug-free athlete my entire life. Doesn't make me any better or worse than anyone else. It's my choice.

I've been doing my blood work now for probably, I wanna say 30 years, I was going to Dr. Gary Wadler, who was on the congressional hearing for the whole steroid scandal in baseball. That's how long ago I was doing blood work before people were even talking about it. I was 16, 17 years old going in for blood work and sitting and talking to them about it

when I started training. Was I learning a lot? Not really, but kind of. I mean, I think as the years came on and this became much more of like an accepting thing and people were understanding what optimization was, I think that was when you know people started looking at the possibilities but you know why would I take something if I was never deficient in a certain area. If you're looking at my blood's going wow his blood work is

really in a nice place which I attest to the last you know 30 years of the way I live. I'm gonna be 48 April. Yeah, why would I take something if I don't now? Would I get bigger? Would I get stronger? I'm sure. I'm sure I'd get a lot bigger and stronger, but I also don't know long-term ramifications of these things. I don't really know what that's going to do to my aging process and how my body is going to benefit from that in the future. I think maybe with certain people, we're seeing a lot of benefits. You look at Stallone now, he's almost 80 years old, and the guy's still running and doing all this crazy stuff.

Applause to him. There's other people that are unfortunately not that lucky or they don't have those resources. So I think I got a little off topic there, but there's so many things to think about. Yeah, there's so many things to think about. And I just, I would like it if people took a little bit more ownership in it, right? If you take something openly admit and you're hearing now bodybuilders and

you're hearing people on the internet talk about it a lot more. I think, I think it should be, I think it should be disclosed. Like if you've taken something ever like admit it, like, all right, just great. Like, you know what? I appreciate your honesty and your openness to it. Um, but be honest with people cause there's young kids out there watching. And don't don't say TRT. No, no. If it's a steroid dose, then be honest about it. Don't call it TRT like running your test at 5000 NGDL.

No, no, no. That's not TRT, my friend. Yeah, that's another thing too. You can improve like my Like my test has improved. God, over the last three years, I think I went from total test. This isn't free. Total test went from like 680 to 930 and people are like, oh, you're on something. And I'm like, no, I'm not. If you were on something, you would go higher than that. Come on. It's not worth it. It's not even worth the injection. Yeah, but people don't know people don't know what they're don't know what they're talking about. But um, they were like, well, how'd you do that? I'm like, well, I stopped commuting three hours a day

in the city. Right? Like I stopped waking up at 3am and started waking up now at 5.50 in the morning. You think that has something to do with it? Well, it's not the plunges. Think about what I just said. Yeah, I plunge. Yeah, I saw and I do those things. I just improve my sleep by two hours. So bedtime has been the same, you're just getting more sleep now? I'm getting more sleep now. I was always, I never really go to bed past nine, so if I was going to bed at nine

and waking up between three and four a.m., now I'm waking up at 5.50. It's like, okay, you don't think that's gonna, and eliminating all that stress of owning gyms in New York City. I've been with a gym in New York City for 15 years. You know, my overhead was two million bucks a year just to break even, right?

And I had two locations at a digital company. So, yeah, when you eliminate that stuff, and suddenly your quality of life improves, and you just become happier, it's a different time of my life, yeah, things are gonna improve. They don't always have to get worse, but I think there needs to be a lot more education out there

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So head over to Amazon, get your copy now and start your journey to a fitter, leaner, and stronger you. While we're on the topic, in the context of Hollywood, that's always a matter of controversy. A lot of people I've seen are quick to finger steroids in the case of so-and-so got ready for a movie and he looked really good. And a lot of people will write it off like, well yeah he was probably on something and uh in many cases probably not actually and sometimes maybe what are your your thoughts and i mean not that i would ask you to to name anybody or or anything like that but just just you've seen a lot of it you've seen a lot of

it behind the scenes i could talk about this there one other, I would say there's one other coach that I know that's worked with more people in Hollywood than me, and that might be Gunnar Peterson. I joke around with Gunnar, he's a very good friend of mine. I say, Gunnar, it's just because you're older than me. Yes, I am. Gunnar's 60 and looks like he's 40 and one of the nicest guys you're gonna meet in the industry,

one of my favorites. Listen, I don't think anyone in Hollywood, this is going to be kind of a kick to a lot of them, but I don't think anyone in Hollywood looks so amazing that I would say that any human being can't do that naturally. Now, people would say it's the time though. They would say, all right, you have two months to gain. In the amount of, sure, fair, fair,

completely, completely fair. But like, you know, I say, all right, you have two months to gain. In the amount of sure. Fair, fair, completely, completely fair. But like, you know, I remember, I mean, I worked with Hugh Jackman 18 years ago. And I remember even back then people were, and I don't work with him now. He's got a, he's got a great coach. Um, she's in Texas. I remember even back then people were like, he's on stuff. He's on stuff. He's on stuff.

I, if he was, I had no idea. And at that time he came, I started working with him when he went from a boy from Oz to Wolverine in Australia. God, I knew exactly what he was eating. I remember the supplements he was taking. I remember how we were training. He was an intense guy, but not to slight you right now, he's an actor. Like you bring him into Ben Francis Powerhouse Gym, and I could show you 200 guys at that time when he was 18 years ago, he's probably one of his mid to late 30s, who are twice as strong and twice as big,

and you wouldn't even look twice at him. But it's because it's Hollywood and it's on the big screen, and the lights, the camera on him. I'm trying to think about who's that guy recently. I very rarely come at people. Who is the guy recently that I was talking about talking to Rob right now. Jack Reacher. Yeah. The Jack Reacher guy. Oh, yeah. I don't know. The big guy.

Yeah. The big guy. I don't even know his name. But he seems like a likable guy. But they were using. Well, he was in this interview. What's his name? Alan Richardson, which Richardson, which. Well, we must open. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he, but he, he said something that I thought, yeah, man, if you hear that, if you ever hear this, I'm calling the nap. Like he was like, you know, when I was training, I just, I just, I trained so hard that I just depleted all my testosterone in like an eight month period of time. And I'm sitting there like rolling my eyes, like stop the justification.

And that was the reason for he was exogenous testosterone. Yeah, that was like his justification exactly why he was taking it. And I thought it was like hilarious. I'm like, it's not necessary, right? Just say like, yeah, I wanna be massive. So that's why I do it. What do you mean? One of my closest buddies is out like, it's not necessary, right? Just say like, yeah, I want to be massive. So that's why I do it. What do you mean?

One of my closest buddies is like a big time power lifter and he's massive. And he was around, a bunch of kids came running up to him one day and he's just like, how'd you get so big? And he turned to them and he looked and he said, drugs. And I lost my marbles because I was so funny. And I looked at the kids, I go, don't do drugs. It's not healthy.

He goes, no, don't it's not healthy. And we're like, we're like brothers, but I have one viewpoint on it. He has the other his viewpoints like now you want to lift, you know, if you want to be a world record holder, if you want to lift an ungodly amount of weight, like, and it's not like he's warming up with my maxes and I'm not a weak person, there's certain things that these people are going to have to do to compete at that level. These world's strongest men, I'm sorry, it's obvious. Look at how they're built.

They're taking stuff. You're not going to get that strong without it. It's just the reality. I would love, again, getting back to this ownership, but in Hollywood, I've had actors call me up and they're like, I'm blown away right now. These are people that are 100% natural, never taking anything. They don't look like they've taken anything, but they have to train for roles where they look athletic and they have some muscle. They said, well, so-and-so just came in, a big name in Hollywood and was smaller than

me. And two months later, the guy's like twice the size. And I'm looking at him and I'm like, dude, just stay your lane, man. You don't need to look like that in a role. Remember, there's a cost to doing business. This is the decision you made. I can't tell you how much business I've lost for major athletes walking into my club, for major Hollywood people coming in

wanting to ask me questions. That's just not my wheelhouse. It's not my education. It's not something I... Questions about drugs. I don't know. Why am I gonna educate myself on it if I'm not gonna utilize it?

Yeah, yeah. No, I'm saying like that's what they were coming for and then you're like, hey, that's not my thing. No, I'm just like, listen, man, I'm not the right guy. Like there's a few doctors I know that I would speak to. And I think if you're going to talk to someone about this, you should go speak to a physician that's qualified. Don't ever talk to a coach.

I don't care how smart they think they are about it. You want to make sure you're dealing with my opinion. It's my opinion. You want to deal with the medical and keep an eye on your bloods and really assess your health and how you're doing it, why you're doing it. And about nine out of 10 times they would walk out and never come back. So, you know, again, it was a decision that I made. Again, I made it not, I don't think I'm any better than anyone else, but it's a decision that

I made. I wanted to put my eggs into other things that I feel felt like that were really important. I wanted to become just, have such an understanding about manipulating the body's composition and nutrition and what works for different people in reference to performance and aesthetics. And I really feel like I developed this passion a long time ago for living in this performance physique world.

And that's kind of why I think I built the name I built in working with a lot of these people in Hollywood. Do you think that, I don't know if this is a general perception, but it is certainly a perception out there that steroids are responsible for a lot of what we see in terms of Hollywood transformations. Would you say that you more agree or disagree with that statement based on your experience?

I think it's out there a lot. I think it's probably out there a lot more now or some type of, when I say manipulation, I mean, yeah, like, oh, well, your testosterone's at 300. It's a little low. I buried my best friend in 2010. He was my head coach, and he didn't have a family. We had to claim rights to his body.

Otherwise, it goes to something called Plotters Field in New York. So, they actually had to hold his body for two weeks. I had to go down to City Hall. I had to claim his body. They finally gave me rights to his body. I had to identify him two weeks after he died, which is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. And I had to claim his body. They finally gave me rights to his body. I had to identify him two weeks after he died, which is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. And I had to bury him.

And when we did this, I had an autopsy done because I wanted to know he's 43, right? So, 2010, that's 14, 15 years ago for me, I'm, shit, I'm 33. So he was 10 years older than me, roughly. And his T levels were north of 3000. I'm 33. So he was 10 years older than me, roughly. His T levels were north of 3000. I just saw this terrible downward spiral he went on.

This will piss a lot of people off because the people taking it, they're all, well, you didn't have anyone monitoring it. It's bullshit. He did have people monitoring it. He knew what he was doing. It got to a point where he became addicted to this feeling that he just kept taking more and more and more and he couldn't get off of it. Then when he got off of it, he felt worse. So he took more. And guess what? That's what a drug addict does. Right? So even with something like testosterone,

which most people say, well, it's not, it's not, it's not a steroid. It's not. Yeah, but it can be abused and it can be abused. I'm sorry. I mean, it, it, it, it factually is a steroid hormone as well. Like, uh, according to the dictionary, I mean, I don't know. According to the dictionary. Yes.

But like, I mean, a lot of people will start categorizing things now differently. Like, well, it's not trend and it's not Deballed but of course that these are coping mechanisms exactly exactly and I'm glad you gave that kind of side I look there because Sometimes if I have a conversation with someone they're like don't come at you attack you just the other day I heard someone on the internet say well, is it is it creatine or controlled substance now? Isn't that like you think they were trying to put creatine on the level of taking a hormone? And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like creatines and meat? How is that the same?

Yeah. I don't want to eat like four steaks a day. So I take a gram of creatine monohydrate, or I take a little scooper of creatine monohydrate. Yeah. So it's just, it's fascinating to me now how everyone's got this clever way of twisting things and justifying it. Do I think it's in Hollywood a lot? Yes. Do I think you're going to see it in Hollywood more now? Yes, because a lot of these hormones are going to become so easily available to a lot of

these actors. And I think it really comes down to who you know, who's willing to take that dive or not. And it's going, I mean, I'm really not working with people one on one anymore. But if I was, I guess it would get to a point where I would be training people probably wouldn't even know about it, because they'd probably just keep it from me. You know, they would have some other guy for that. And you know, that's it. Yeah, it's it's it's that's this. These are the things that are happening now. But to answer your question, I think it's seen a lot more than we think. Interesting.

And for people listening, wondering why that is, it's simply because these drugs work really, really well. So it's been shown in research, for example, that simply taking steroids, I'm thinking one study in particular, can produce more. And this was just testosterone. And it wasn't necessarily a, it this was just testosterone and it wasn't necessarily a it was super physiological but it wasn't necessarily the big bodybuilder dose so just

taking testosterone can produce more muscle growth in an untrained individual uh over the course of i want to say this study was 10 to 12 weeks then training and eating well so just think with that yeah okay that that might help that that might help a lot of these actors out but not I'm not endorsing it. I mean, like you, I'm going to stay drug free as long as I can. If my testosterone if I'm 75 years old and it's 200 ngdl I've done everything I can my quality of life sucks my dick doesn't work etc etc. Yeah, I'm getting on TRT. I always wonder I always wonder by by by then right like

let's say someone, I think someone asked me this recently, like you're 80 and suddenly things have evolved so much. I mean, that's 32, 33 years from now, right? It's, think about what we're gonna have to access to. Think about 32, 33 years ago to 32, 33 years from now. It's like, who knows what we have access to by then, but like, are you taking it? And I'm like, I don't know. It's like, I don what we have access to by then, but like, are you taking it?

And I'm like, I don't know. It's like, I don't know if that, by then I'm like, fuck it, I'm just, you know, I've gone this long already and I'm just gonna turn my head and ride it out or. I mean, theoretically though, right? If your quality of life, because as you probably know, there are true clinical symptoms that,

where it's actually, you could probably, I think you could absolutely make a good argument that as a man living with clinically low testosterone is it's unhealthy and so if you've done everything you can to bring that up naturally and that's it it's just you know your body is old and worn out and it's that it's living like that or exogenous you probably could make just a simple net benefits argument for the exogenous. Totally, totally, totally 100% of greater body of mine

that was blown up in Afghanistan. He had like over 30 surgeries, nose was blown off his head, jaw, bullets went through his face, arm was blown off, reattached, and it got to the point where he finally got on something and he got off over an incredible hurdle and he's living an incredible life. His body composition is a good place, his energy levels high, and he's happy and I'm like oh my god go go go. I've had clients in here that I've worked with. I've had

people I've worked with that are 872 pounds. I've had a guy who started me in here as a friend who was five and a quarter and he actually never wanted to take anything. He's so scared about even taking like Manchara or like one of those, you know, one of those peptides. Yeah, one of those GOP1s. So, you know, I think, again, it's to each his own. I think certain people are really nervous about the long-term effects. And, but like I said, God, 30 years from now, we're going to know a lot. Absolutely. You mentioned earlier coming, I don't want to belabor Hollywood, but it's just something that you mentioned that I made a mental note to come back to, is how big of a difference lighting and camera can make.

I think the reason I want to bring it up is just for people listening to make sure that if they're going to compare themselves to things, to at least understand what they are seeing and what they are comparing to. It's unbelievable what they can do with lighting and camera angles and, oh my God, it's incredible. And this is not to take away the shape that a lot of these actors have to get into. They work hard and they and again, remember, this isn't their craft. This isn't like they're not a bodybuilder. You know, they're not a professional athlete that's been doing this most of their life. And so they know a lot of times they come in here, they have to learn these

skills, you know, to be able to get this type of shape, right? You turn to Sebastian Stan, and he's got a resistance train for Avengers. they're like, but no, step you, you got to do three hours of sword fight training a day. And he's like, what, like, what are you talking about? These are things people don't think about. That's a stress and that's activity. And this is going to tire them out. Think about all the sets on their plate now. So yeah, it's, um, it really is my, um, my respect for them over, you know, the last 20,

I've been in the business over 25 years. I think I took my first one on about 20 years ago. It's extraordinary what they have to do in such a little time. And in terms of what you see on the screen, just for people who don't know, what is that difference between, okay, you're there in person while they're shooting,

and not to take away from anything that they've done. As you said, they've worked hard, they've gotten into great shape. But then you see the final production on TV. And what is that delta, so to speak, in terms of what you're seeing, where you're like, dude, that guy looks 15 pounds bigger than, you know what I mean? How many times have we gotten mirrors in a dressing room and we're like, oh my god, I don't look like that, right? Like this is, this is it.

Or it's like, oh my god, like this is the best mirror. Suddenly, you know, I'm like, oh my god, it looked terrible. Like there's, there's lighting. I could lift these shades up right now and bleach these lights out. If I take my shirt off, I am not going to look anywhere as defined. And if I drop the shades, dim the lighting, get some lighting coming in me at a different angle, do a couple of pushups, get a pump.

Like I'm going to look a lot different. I can do it before, after, and trick everyone and say this is 12 weeks later. They're going to be like, what? So think about what Hollywood could do. I could do that in a few minutes. I did that once. Sorry, just reminds me where I didn't do a cover

It was just getting lean for some marketing and stuff and and so I I was taking a nap outside So it was in the Sun fully, you know, so that's just sunlight bling in Florida coming down on me Somebody took a picture of me laying down and so I'm so I'm sleeping so no muscle tension, right? And then just a few days later It was the photo shoot and I was probably around six or 7%, so pretty lean. And I have a bit of size, right? So pretty vascular, whatever. And people had a hard time believing

that those were just a few days apart because of how shockingly different it looked. God, you can manipulate so much. I mean, it's fascinating, but it's still, I never wanted to take away from the work that's being put in. I mean, at the end of the it's still, I never wanted to take away from the work that's being put in. I mean, at the end of the day, even when I go to a, I've been to probably 15 to 20 Mr. Olympia competitions, I want to be very clear here.

Just because someone's on a performance enhancing substance doesn't mean they're going to look like that, right? Or it doesn't mean they're going to be able to perform like someone in the NFL. Like it takes a special athlete, a special individual to be able to perform like someone in the NFL. Like it takes a special athlete, a special individual to be able to create and develop the skill sets that these people have developed, whether it's standing on stage and posing or whether it's, you know, being in the NFL.

Different skill sets, but man, the amount of work, the amount of effort, the discipline that I think a lot of these people have to put in to get there, especially with bodybuilders, I'm fascinated with. I'll just go and you'll go to the Olympia and you'll look at, you know, the classic physique now is probably one of the biggest categories. So you'll look at a hundred guys in the back competing and you know, what do they take top five? It's like, Oh my God.

And, and I can guarantee most people are going to be able to go look at the winner, Chris Bumstead this year till, you guy who finished 20th, 25th. And if they look at them side by side and they don't know what they're looking at, they're going to be like, who won? Like it's, but the amount, even if someone finishes 20th, it's like the amount of discipline, the amount of effort and the amount of work,

for me, that's what I respect the most. Absolutely. You mentioned that with some of these covers that you did recently, you didn't bother cutting water. And I wanted to come back to that because that also is just the topic of how to look a certain way is something that has just come up over the years where so typically, the way I've received it is people asking about usually it's around some

sort of event, right? So maybe it's's a wedding or it's a guy who wants to look particularly good on the beach for some reason or whatever. That leads to then, are there any strategies aside from, so there's one school which is just, you just got to get really lean, forget about everything else, just keep losing fat, and that's one approach. Then there's another approach of getting lean plus

other things like cutting water, reducing carbs, or reducing and then increasing. What are your thoughts on these things? And I'm sure you've done a lot of these things. So you're speaking firsthand as well. Yeah, I think it depends on the starting point, right? I think someone like me is going to walk around really lean all year long and I never go in any massive bulking phases.

I mean, I'm like six foot one. I probably in a year will weigh anywhere between like 207 to as much as maybe 219. And that's, I don't even think that's a true 219, 220. That's probably after a bad weekend retaining some water. So I don't think so. That sounds like that's a big fluctuation, but it really isn't. I mean, I could wake up one morning and be five pounds lighter. It's just, you know, and you know that. Yeah. Or heavier. You can just eat a bunch of carbs and a bunch of salt

and weigh five more pounds. Well, 100%. So I think when I manipulated for a couple of photo shoots years ago, like 2013, 2014, and I did like water manipulation, car manipulation, and I just remember how shitty I felt those few times I did it. It was a true contest prep and made it through it. It was discipline. It went to the shoot date. It

felt like I looked great. That in comparison to me doing, I refer to it as more of a healthier cut, I did not get that much leaner. I was almost like, I'll show you pictures and you're like, wow, that's comparable. Like that's the one that you had to cut water for and this is the one that you did it. And I was like, yeah. I just found because all year long, I'm consuming like a higher level of calories and my macros, I'm never really going low carb.

I'm never going low fat, but I'm eating a high quality diet that's high fiber nutrient dense, you know, I'm turning around, if I'm getting 500, 600 grams of carbs in a day with 250 to 275 grams of protein, say 130 grams of fat, when my body's used to processing that, running through that, the second I have to prepare for a cover, if I drop that 500 to 300, keep the protein around the same and drop the fats from say 130 to 90, that's a massive deficit. But I'm still, my calories are still pretty high. So what I found with my body is that I might lose five, six, seven

pounds in a week. And then after that, for the next three, four weeks, I might lose like a pound, a pound and a half. And it's, but every day I'm waking up and I after that, for the next three, four weeks, I might lose like a pound, a pound and a half. And it's just, but every day I'm waking up and I'm like, oh my God, I've got a new vein coming down from my neck to my chest and my arms are more vasculated. And out of nowhere, like a week or two in, I'm starting to see veins come through my abdominals. It's just from the fact that I think I'm used to processing a high amount of calories. And then suddenly when I go into a deficit,

this is like most people's surpluses, so my body's used to, my metabolism's used to being pretty efficient. So I think that's something that's worked really, really well for me. Also another thing, I don't change training in the sense of like, people get in the mindset, I'm like, oh I gotta sweat, I gotta start doing circuit work.

They're like, no, no, not at all. I'm actually like, I take really more of a power building approach. And most of my training, like, I love throughout the year, most of the time, and I'm not saying I don't work on work capacity or I don't change training up, but most of the time, like bench squat, deadlift, pull up, overhead press, these are lifts I wanna make sure

that are pretty strong. And then everything else I can get in a unilateral work, et cetera. But those, you know, that big three bench squat deadlift, yeah, I'm focusing more on like power and strength there. And that, this is allowing me to stay somewhat dense. And then I feel like everything else, I'm going into more of like a hypertrophy approach.

So when I'm, you know, a week or two out from a cover, I'm pulling 500 pounds off the floor. Like I'm squatting a heavy weight, like I'm hitting fives and threes, and I'm doing these things that I feel like allow my muscle to stay hard and dense, where I'm someone that if everything goes to high repetitions, well for a week or two,

I'm gonna feel sore, I'm gonna get some nasty pumps, I'm gonna feel great, but then after that, I'm gonna start feeling like I'm getting a little bit more weaker, and I'm actually gonna feel like my body starts getting flat. So that's an approach that I've taken for a while. Maintaining that muscle strength and that density for me is something that I think has allowed me

to have pretty good body composition throughout the years. So when I decide to start prepping for something, or I get a call to prep for something, it's not like, oh, aren't you running around? And it's like, All right, well, yeah, like, I do more cardio, sure. I'm doing more steady state cardio. Why are you doing high intensity training? Well, I'd be a little too taxing for the amount I have to train to prepare for this. Right? Steady state cardio. The easy thing about it, as you know, is we could just do a lot of it. Right. And exactly. But it's like, people want to like kind of shit on it a bunch and be like, well, you know, studies show that high intensity.

Yes, there's a place for that. There's a place for this. So I just think people need to be well-rounded. And I think again, that coaching element of recognizing what the individual needs, I think is what makes a good coach a good coach. Oh, actually, can I, can I, can I ask? So you mentioned sauna and cold plunge. Can you talk a little bit about those things and maybe any other of these other interventions that,

I mean, some of them are, so red light is kind of trendy right now. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying that. I love red light. I actually have a red light bed being delivered to me in like two or three weeks. So yeah, I've got a revive red light bed coming to me. So I'm

really interested because I've committed to red light mask and I have like a stand-up lamp downstairs. But I just want to get a little bit more educated on because it's a little bit more those bulbs are going to be a lot more stronger and getting on a consistent regiment where I'm actually laying down in my whole body. You can get exposed to red light front and back. It's interesting. Plunging, I use, I actually feel great from plunging. I'll use it either sometimes when I wake up first thing, I'll use it on days off.

Feel great from doing it. I use, it's called a Renew. It's been my favorite plunge. And I have an infrared sauna that I have outside and then I have one that's inside. And you prefer the infrared over a traditional? That was a... I've always liked it. I don't like going into these really hot 180, 190 degree saunas where you just feel like you're gonna die. I like being in the sauna at 104,

anywhere from 130 to 150 degrees. I'll do emails, I'll be sitting there sweating like a pig. I'll have a conversation with my training buddy. We'll spend 20, 30 minutes in there. We'll jump in the plunge on an off day for three minutes and you just feel great. So I feel like that's enhanced my recovery a bit. I don't think that there's no benefit if it's ever because now you're hearing, well,

it's a blunt side pressure V. I've been cold plunging for 25 years. I don't know if I've ever I've come cold plunged after workouts. I've cold plunged on off days. I really don't cold plunge after workouts. I've been doing it on off days, but I've never seen a downside to it. And then on top of that, what else do I use? I'll use Normatex. I really like this new unit called Firefly, which is these... I don't want to describe it as Normatex, but there's almost like these little sticky bands that give you off impulses that help reduce circulation throughout the body. So you could throw them on your knees.

It's got a plus minus button. It's got a 30 hour lifespan. They're super inexpensive. I'll give them to people. Like my next door neighbor's got cerebral palsy. He's in a wheelchair. So we'll get him a pair, right? A buddy of mine who's had some knee surgeries that, you know, he's always looking for more

circulation, he's wearing up. My uncle almost had his leg amputated because of cancer, and one of his legs isn't working well anymore. We'll through that on him, and he's already noticed a drastic improvement in how his body's feeling and actually bringing some movement back into his toes. So I think there are some really great things out there. I just, again, it's the, for someone like my uncle or Christian,

who's my neighbor next door, that's pretty severe, right? Like those things that we're talking about, how it's helping them out, pretty severe. Someone like myself, I think it's like throwing a cherry on top of the whipped cream, which is on the ice cream. Like this is- It's probably in the same category of supplements. Like they're supplemental by definition thank you I

couldn't perfectly set that's exactly it I just people start putting so much value into these things and they're like do something hard every day and I'm like well is that really hard I was doing these things really hard like I think doing what's hard what I think hard is like waking up when you're tired and continue to do your routine that you don't want to do It wasn't it wasn't hard when when we were 20 sleep what was sleep it didn't even matter But it's different now at least for me like five hours does not feel the same anymore It does it but yeah

I think if people want to pay attention to doing the hard things be consistent with your nutrition get to bed on time every night Trying, you know eliminate or limit alcohol, get high protein. Like these are not sexy things, but they're definitely going to pay the biggest dividends. Have you looked into the newbie machine, N-E-U? Oh, yeah, I have heard of this. Describe it to me again. I feel like I've used it. So it's a DC, so it's a direct current stim. It's pretty expensive. I don't know much about it. Oh, it's a shockwave therapy? That's possible that it can be used.

That might be categorized that way. However, I know, so I've been on it. I don't have one. I've been on it before. And so it's direct current stim and it's a high-end direct current stim with rehab settings. And then also with like training hypertrophy settings where you can, you can heavily stimulate

target muscle groups and Mac and achieve maximum contraction. It's, it's intense. And I've seen some bodybuilders now catching onto this. It seems interesting. I haven't, I haven't messed around with it much because I don't have one. I just had access to one through somebody I know. There's a bodybuilder at Max Charles. That's who it is. Max Charles. He's a four-time Olympian. He trains at Ben Francis Powerhouse Gym. And this guy guy for the last, no joke, it has to be seven, eight years has been walking around the gym pushing a cart with this machine. Literally like he brings, he literally has a guy, he's hooked up to these like electrodes

and he's pushing it in a machine. He's got another guy following him, I think to like assist with him and it's fascinating. So yes, I think, to assist with him. And it's fascinating. So yes, I have seen this. I just. All right, last question from you wondering, supplements, do you take any supplements? I do, creatine monohydrate.

I mean, I've been taking that for probably close to 30 years now. I take magnesium, I take that before bed, I take fish oils. I also take vitamin D. Sometimes I'll take amino acids if my protein might be low that day or if I'm dieting. I take a great sleep bundle right now from a new company that's about to launch called Spokin. They gave me access to it. I love it because it's got magnesium, it's got L-Pamine, it's got

inocidal, it's got glycine, all the good sleep aids, L-glutamine. And, you know, I'll take a protein supplement. I got to take a protein powder. But it's so funny all the literature right now that people are putting out there like this protein powder making you fat? I'm just like, oh my God. Is that a thing? I actually have not seen that. Yeah, actually Dr. Gabrielle Lyon just had to address it because people are like, protein, I heard protein powder is making you fat. We're like, who said that? Did you hear that supposedly he's suing Grant Cardone?

This just popped up the other day, I was laughing. I saw that, I don't know how I came across it or somebody told me, yes, supposedly he's like suing Grant Cardone. This just popped up the other day. I was laughing. I saw that. I don't know how I came across her. Somebody told me, yes, I've heard that. I don't know the details. I guess he got kicked out and then they got mad at each other. I don't know. Actually, I don't know the details. I'm no fan of Brekka though. He is a quack to end all quackery. My opinion, caveat, whatever. No, no, no, it's, it's fine. I mean, he's not. I've seen, I've just seen him say so much nonsense that what else am I supposed to, what else am I supposed to conclude? If you want to play doctor, go become a doctor. So I don't know. I think a lot of these guys get a bit fluffy. Well, it's bio hacking. That's the

red flag. Anyone who calls themselves a biohacker red flag. But who was it that Dave Asprey was on talking about how don't eat oats. It'll make you fat. Yeah, ice cream is healthier for you than oatmeal. And I'm like, that's just irresponsible. How can you be that stupid? And the one guy I got a kick out of recently though, cause I talked out of this event called Unibonia at West Palm, that guy Brian Johnson, the one trying to live to be like, whatever. He's like, you know what? He looks kind of like a lizard already or something,

or maybe a vampire. He looks like a vampire. He listened flat out kooky. I totally get it, but he gets it too. And he's like, listen, I'm a kook. You flat out kooky. I totally get it. But he gets it too. And he's like, listen, I'm a cook. You flat out said it. And people are like, what? I didn't respect.

Everyone lives the lives that they want to live. Hopefully, right? Like if you have the ability to live the way you want to live, that's that to me is like true wealth. Yeah. And spend your money. It's your money. Do whatever you want.

Exactly. But like people coming at him, like the women of the view were like, have a life. I'm like kind of thinking to myself to myself, I felt bad for him. This is the life he wants to live. This is what he's doing. He seemed really happy and whatever, but he at least took ownership over the fact that what he does is a bit weird and strange.

And a lot of doctors were coming on. They're like, this is not gonna be backed evidence and this isn't science. He's just like, listen, I just wanna see what I can do with the human body. And for me, I have the money, I have the resources. This is something that I enjoy doing and I'm going to take advantage of it. When he kind of put it that way, I was like,

how do you argue with that? Leave the guy alone. Yeah, I mean, from what I've seen from him, it seems like, again, I don't pay too much attention, but from what I've seen, a fair amount of it is based on existing literature. And then a fair amount of it is speculative, but it's not absurd. It's based on mechanics that can be explained that at least align with how the human body works. And yes, it is speculative, where we don't know if this really does something or not.

And so long as such protocols are presented that way, I don't think there's anything wrong with that per se. And even if you're to say like, I actually don't recommend that I'm doing it because this is kind of my thing. I don't recommend though that everyone does it because I don't know, it may actually may be bad for me some of this stuff. We'll see. Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a little I mean, the whole industry has become a little much. The biohackers, most of them, to me, should just kind of go away. And that sounds pretty terrible for me to say, but I don't know. You've got really intelligent doctors out there.

You've got people who are like, you know, Dr. Gabriel Lyon and Dr. Dwayne Jackson, who's kind of more of an unknown. And he's one of Prescript's doctors. And even like listening to Huberman the other day, I had dinner with him, like super smart guy, worked at the Cold Spring labs right over here. People hate him because he's just found a way to become really successful, and he's in the media a little bit,

but the guy's super smart. So it's like, these are the people, I'd rather listen to these people. Why am I gonna go listen to a biohacker who's just kind of walking around through lockers all day? And the reason why it sounds a little abrasive how I'm putting it, it's just kind of walking around through lockers on all day. I just, I think, and the reason why it sounds a little abrasive how I'm putting it, it's just I think they become a bit irresponsible.

Their behavior becomes irresponsible when they're coming in with this one size fits all approach or when they're turning around to people. Someone in the Midwest right now who's been eating egg McMuffins every morning, and suddenly they're like, you know what? I got instant oats, Quaker instant oats, and it's cinnamon flavor, and know what? I got instant oats, Quaker instant oats,

and it's cinnamon flavor and it's got some fiber in it and my doctor's telling me this is better for me than the egg McMuffin. What's better for you? Be honest, what the fuck's better for you? But now you're telling him, this person who's trying to make a little bit of an effort, you're discouraging them by saying, well,

you're better off eating ice cream because the oats are the worst thing for you to eat. That's irresponsible. Coaching is about finding the level the person's at. And you know what? Taking a minimalistic approach sometimes to give them a little bit more. You're not always gonna be able to turn around.

That's actually all that works with most people. You have the exception, but. With most people. Right, every once in a while, there's this diamond in the rough. There's this type eight person where you're like, here's C in three months, and they come back and they're like, look, and you're like, holy shit, it was that easy. It's not the reality, but these people are getting irresponsible, and their behavior

and the information they're giving, it's really messing people up, it's really confusing them, and it's keeping them away from being able to take the right steps. So that's my only reservation with some of the biohackers is when they, it's also unethical. A lot of the claims that are made are just false. So we're talking about essentially lying for a living. It's lying. Correct.

Lying for a living. Like that's basically what I do. I lie for a living. It's basically, it's just turning around saying I'm going to say this to as clickbait make money. That's it. Yeah, make money. Ultimately, it's just make money. Well, we've gone on another almost 20 minutes now. So again, I appreciate the time. Why don't we wrap up quickly with with

where people can find you find your work if there's anything in particular that you want them to know about. Don Staledino dot com is my site kind of spells everything out there. I host programs, challenges, do consulting. I've got a new podcast launching with the Gaines family, Joanna Chip Gaines from Magnolia this year. I'm writing a book. I just signed a deal with Countryman Press, so I've rolled that out, Ryan Reynolds is writing it forward. Got some great projects this year I'm really excited about. Anyone has any questions, shoot me a DM. Mike, thanks for having me on. It was a pleasure. Hope to meet you in person.

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helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you. And if you didn't like something about this episode or about the show in general or if you have ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email. Mike at muscle for life.com muscle F O R life.com and let me know what I can do better or just what your thoughts are about maybe what you'd like to see me do in the future. I read everything myself. I'm always looking for new

ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode and I hope to hear from you soon.