Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - How Andrew Used Bigger Leaner Stronger to Lose 80 Pounds and Get Jacked

Episode Date: June 24, 2020

In this episode, I interview Andrew, who used Bigger Leaner Stronger to transform his understanding of getting fit and finally start making real progress. When Andrew was 240 pounds and out of shape, he decided to make a change. He wanted to lose some weight, and he did what most people do: hopped on the treadmill for endless hours of cardio, ate way too much, and . . . not much changed. Eventually, he got fed up with spinning his wheels, did a bit of Googling, and found Bigger Leaner Stronger. After reading the book, Andrew understood what he was doing wrong, and had a plan to fix it. He started following the BLS program and it helped him completely transform his physique and life.  He ended up losing 80 pounds while getting significantly stronger. In fact, the changes were so significant that his friends and co-workers started asking him what he was doing. In this interview, Andrew and I talk about his story and the key lessons he’s learned along the way, including how he was eating and exercising before BLS, how misconceptions about “healthy” foods held him back, how he turned it all around by learning about macros and the fundamentals of proper training, and more.  So if you’re looking for a jolt of inspiration and like motivational stories, I highly recommend you listen to this episode. 6:46 - Where was your diet and fitness before you found me and my work? 12:01 - How did the enjoyment of exercise change when you started Bigger Learner Stronger? 14:21 - How was your perception of the 3rd edition versus the 2nd edition of Bigger Leaner Stronger? 16:56 - What were some obstacles you had to overcome? 22:02 - How have you improved in the skill of weightlifting? 23:03- What does mind muscle connection mean to you? 26:53 - Did you run into any obstacles with the types of food thats you were eating? 32:29 - What are you doing now for workouts? --- Mentioned on The Show: Books by Mike Matthews: https://legionathletics.com/products/books/ --- Want to get my best advice on how to gain muscle and strength and lose fat faster? Sign up for my free newsletter! Click here: https://www.legionathletics.com/signup/

Howdy ho, this is Mike Matthews. Welcome to a new episode of the Muscle for Life podcast. Thank you for taking some time with me today. And this episode is an interview I did with a guy named Andrew, who used my Bigger, Leaner, Stronger book slash workout program, I guess, and diet regimen to transform his physique, truly.

I mean, he lost 80 pounds on the program and gained a bunch of muscle and strength. And when he started, I guess you could say right before he found BLS, he was about 240 pounds, very out of shape, and he wanted to make a change. And what he did was he started doing cardio. He hopped on the treadmill every day

and many, many, many hours, countless hours of cardio and countless calories as well, eating way too much. And of course, not much changed. And he was confused and frustrated because he felt like he was working way too hard for way too little. I don't know about you, but I've been there. I know what that is like. That is not fun.

Eventually, however, Andrew found his way to my book, Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, and he realized the many mistakes that he was making and what he should be doing instead. And he followed the plan. And again, as I mentioned, the plan helped him lose 80 pounds and get jacked, basically. And of course, along the way, people started noticing friends, coworkers, and they wanted to know, what are you doing? How are you gaining so much strength and losing so much fat and eating foods that you like? And of course, he told them about the book. And that is the primary way my work is promoted, actually. I don't do that much in the way of advertising. It's mostly just word of mouth. People read it, like it, use it, get results, and then tell others about it. And of course, as they are fitness books, they are particularly conducive to word of mouth because people notice. They see the changes every day,

every week, every month, and want to know, how are you doing that? And so anyway, in this episode, we talk about Andrew's story, how he went from very overweight and very out of shape to very in shape and quite lean. And we also get into some of the obstacles that he had to overcome, some of the changes he had to make to what you would find in the book, because I do my best to give a one-size-fits-all approach in my books, but also explain to people that they probably will have to make some changes.

They probably will have to personalize the diet and training advice to some degree. Some people don't. Some people can just go literally by the book and get to exactly where they want to be. But other people usually due to lifestyle or just preferences, they need to make some changes to my recommendations that I share in the books. And that's one of the things I like to get into in these interviews, because I know there are people out there and maybe listening to this podcast who are in similar situations to the people I'm speaking with and who can learn from

their experiences. And then there's also the motivational factor of these stories. When you are in the process of transforming your physique, it is nice to hear from people who have done exactly what you want to do, even if it's just to remind yourself that you can do it. Even if it's just to say, hey, that guy did it and he doesn't have extraordinary genetics or hours a day to sit in the gym or tons of money to spend on custom nutrition plans or even pre-prepared food and so forth. And if, hey, if he did it, then I can do it too. And so that's what these interviews, that's what these success episodes are all about. Also, if you like what I'm doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my

health and fitness books, including the number one bestselling weightlifting books for men and women in the world, Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, and Thinner, Leaner, Stronger, as well as the leading flexible dieting cookbook, The Shredded Chef. Now, these books have sold well over 1 million copies and have helped thousands of people build their best body ever. And you can find them on all major online retailers like Audible, Amazon, iTunes, Kobo, and Google Play, as well as in select Barnes and Noble stores. And I should also mention that you can get any of the audiobooks 100% free when you sign up for an Audible account. And this is a great way to make those pockets of

downtime, like commuting, meal prepping, and cleaning more interesting, entertaining, and productive. And so if you want to take Audible up on this offer, and if you want to get one of my audio books for free, just go to www.buylegion.com and sign up for your account. So again, if you appreciate my work and if you want to see more of it, and if you want to learn time proven and evidence-based strategies for losing fat, building muscle and getting healthy and strategies that work for anyone and everyone, regardless of age or circumstances, please do consider picking up one of my best-selling books, Bigger Leaner Stronger for Men, Thinner Leaner Stronger for Women, and The Shredded Chef for my favorite fitness-friendly recipes. Andrew, welcome to another quarantined edition of Muscle for Life. Hey, thanks so much, Mike. It's great to be here. I appreciate your time. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate your time. I guess both of us probably have a bit more time than usual these days, but

there also are, you mentioned you have a family, so I'm assuming you have kids. No kids for me, but man, you'd be surprised on time. I think it's amazing what you can fill your life with when you're a perpetual learner and you're always into reading and work is still going. So it's still trying to stay busy for sure. Oh yeah. I mean, I hear you. I'm actually wrapping up an article right now that is just kind of like, here are my thoughts, my personal guide to quarantine life and making the most of it. And of course, productivity factors into that in a big way. But then there are other things that we can make time for that maybe we wouldn't normally make time for that are just for the sake of enjoying our lives a little bit more while we're stuck inside. Right. Yeah, exactly.

So we're here to talk about your fitness journey and how I usually like to run these types of episodes. It's just kind of open-ended conversation. And I think a good place to start would be before you found me and my work, where were you at? Where were you at in your fitness? How was that affecting maybe others of your life? What was working for you and had worked and what was not working and had not worked? What was the before like? Oh my gosh. Well, I mean, to start off, I was about 240 pounds, definitely, you know, out of shape. And I kind of was leaning toward that traditional style of working out where, you know, it's like you want to lose fat. So, you know, in my initial journey, anyway, I thought,

hey, you know, I got to get on the treadmill. So, you know, I would just beat myself up on the treadmill. I'd run for an hour, an hour and 20 minutes at whatever pace I could manage. And I didn't understand macros. I didn't know how to count protein, carbs, and fats. And I didn't even understand energy balance from a calories perspective. So I just thought, hey, I hopped on the treadmill and I worked out today and I ran for an hour. So, you know, I can kind of eat what I eat, what I want because I worked out and it just, it didn't compute in my brain what I needed to do. So I really, you know, one day I really got frustrated and I thought, Hey, I'm putting all this work in on this treadmill and I'm running

and it's just, nothing is changing. What can I do? So I kind of started an internet search and looked, Hey, what's the best pre-workout? Cause I thought, Hey, I'm going to start maybe trying to lift some weights. And, you know, I looked on the internet and I kept coming across Pulse, which is one of my favorite products. I absolutely love Pulse. But I thought, well, this is, let me, let me try this. So I stumbled upon your website from just finding your pre-workout. And when I did that, I started reading some of the articles and then realized you had a book, Bigger, Leaner, Stronger. And I thought, oh my gosh, well, who doesn't want to be biggerger, Leaner, Stronger? This program is absolutely perfect for me. So I bought the book. And something that's always stuck with me is that I've kind of heard that don't read 10 books one

time, read one book 10 times. And I really took that to heart with Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, because I wanted to learn, I wanted to develop. And the content in Bigger, Leaner, Stronger is just so spot on. It's so easy to understand. And really, once I was able to lay out, hey, this is what macronutrients are. This is the program you should be doing for lifting weights. If you want to really burn body fat and build muscle and be able to eat more food, you need to be lifting weights. So that's kind of how I found Bigger, Leaner, Stronger was really through that internet search. And like I said, I started off about 240 pounds and, you know, pre BLS, I was doing a lot of cardio only cardio. And then I read the bigger, leaner, stronger book and completely changed the program. I ran the

bigger, leaner, stronger program and was able to lose about 80 pounds and 22% body fat. Wow. And over what period of time? It was about probably about nine months, 10 months. That's fantastic. That's outstanding. Oh my gosh. Your program was great. But one thing that I didn't take to heart is that I did a little bro science and I thought, Hey, I'm going to cut my calories all the way down as low as I can go tend to my BMR. Right. You do things in your own knowledge sometimes and you think it's better and it's just not. So I went a really long time without taking any kind of diet breaks or things like that. So I got phenomenal results, but I think I could have had a lot better path there.

And I probably could have preserved some more muscle as I was going through the program. Overall, it still worked out phenomenal. And I think you learn as you go. But ironically, I think you did it at the time when you can most get away with it, which is if you are overweight and you're new to proper heavy weightlifting, so your body is hypersensitive to it and hyper responsive. And yeah, you learned that that's not the best way of going about it, but I would say you paid the least price for it actually, because if you were to do that now, now that you're an experienced weightlifter, you're a

lot stronger, you have more muscle. If you were to just go straight to your BMR or even below your BMR and just go balls to the wall, the outcome would be, you would lose a fair amount of muscle. Whereas sure, through that process, you didn't just lose a bunch of body fat. You were more muscular at the end of it, I'm sure. Even if it's hard to see in the mirror because you went from looking at a certain type of body to a much leaner body. But if you look at your whole body strength, I'm guessing that before and after your whole body strength went up quite a bit. Oh, it's unbelievable. You know, my, my, even just like deadlifting when I started, I'm 240 pounds and I'm struggling to deadlift 205 pounds, you know, with good form.

And when I was finished, I'm all the way down right at 158, 160 pounds and I'm able to deadlift about 390. Yeah. So that's huge. I mean, you're not losing muscle while building a deadlift like that. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah, no. And it's perfect. And I think, you know, especially as you read through bigger, leaner, stronger multiple times, and I have every edition. So, you know, like when 2.0 came out, I bought it when 3.0 came out, I bought it and I learned, you know, new things in each edition and you just continue to grow and develop. And it's just such a great program, especially as, as people get started. And I just, I can't stress enough how many people out there and how many

people I know in my own life that they want to lose weight and they want to get fit, but all they do is this endless amount of cardio and, you know, restrict calories. And it's just, when you figure out what clicks and what really works for the body, it's so much easier than what people think. True. And it's so much more enjoyable, right? I mean, how was that process for you? Because what you were doing before you already had alluded to that it was frustrating. I understand to be doing that much exercise and not really see anything change. How has that changed for you in terms of just pure enjoyment before and after? Before when I, it was absolutely dreadful to have to go down and get on the treadmill for an hour

and you know, you'd, you'd finish up and you'd just be like, man, this is, this was really tough. And you just hated to do it every day. You'd wake up and you'd hate to do it. And obviously when you do something like that, it's not sustainable long-term. Right now, currently where I'm at is that I just focus on my NEAT and my daily steps and going for walks and things like that. And I don't do a lot of HIIT, maybe just a little bit of HIIT. Through the process of BLS, I was lifting and I also threw in some HIIT workouts probably two or three times a week. And that really did help me to maximize the fat loss. But right now where I'm at is just getting the steps in. And so I'm really doing hardly any cardio other than just that daily activity and able to maintain phenomenal results. And the big thing about that, it's like you said that in that form,

I'll continue to do that for a lifetime and really fitness is lifetime, right? It's not just like get fit and you're done. It's so much more enjoyable this way. And I actually love lifting weights. And I think the other thing about that too, is that you've got to find the right form when you're lifting weights and your website gives a lot of great blogs on this. And if you're just pushing the weight up and doing a bunch of extra weight, just to try to get the numbers up, you're not working the right muscles and it's just so much harder. So, you know, really developing your muscles and your body in the right way by using perfect form and not going, you know, too heavy is just really critical. Totally. And it's also critical for safety as well.

Weightlifting is not an inherently dangerous activity. Actually, quite a bit of research has shown that. But you got to do it right. Weightlifting the way that some people we see in back when we used to go to gyms, what they're doing, it actually is dangerous. But when you learn how to do it correctly, it's actually a very safe activity. You're more likely to get hurt just playing on like a flag football team, for example. Right. Yeah, exactly. And that's another thing I love about Bigger, Leaner, Stronger is that, you know, that book is so encompassing of everything you need to know and understand.

I mean, you go through, you know, especially the big lifts, deadlift, squat, bench, overhead press, those types of things on the proper form, how to do them. And you're dialed into that and also into the nutrition and the programming. So it's just such a great program and outline for anybody, especially new beginning lifters to jump in and to start weight training. They don't have to be scared of it. Read the book and follow the information and the advice. Thank you. Thank you. I'm curious, how is your perception of the third edition versus let's say the third edition versus, let's say, the second edition? Because there have been a number of years in between the two, and really the third edition, as you know, was kind of a rewrite from scratch. Core fundamentals didn't change, of course, but I tried to explain things better,

organize things better. I'm just curious. My perspective is by both. But no, I think obviously, yeah, like, you know, anytime you do something over and over again, you get better at it. Right. So I think your third edition, the writing is just continually improves and gets better. And I think, you know, it does, like you said, explain the content more in depth and kind of paint a clear picture. So I really enjoyed both versions and, you know, to this day, I still refer back to bigger, leaner, stronger 2.0 and look at things in 3.0 and just kind of compare so overall I think you know it's an excellent rewrite and I think like you said it really does

go a little more in depth and explain things a little deeper which helps out a lot yeah a lot of that was based on just feedback that I'd gotten from readers so there's a big advantage having emailed with so many people over the years people would ask good questions and make good suggestions and so I would just take notes and so I was able to very much tailor what was being removed, changed and added to real life circumstances. Like people were reading the book and then not sure about what to do at this point. So I was able to address those things, which was pretty cool. Yeah. And I love when you go on, you know, tips for better cuts and tips for better lean bulks and things like that. And obviously you talk about supplements in both books, but yeah,

I mean, it's a, it just goes a little more in depth than like you said, when people ask questions and then you can clarify for the masses, it's critical. So it's really important. So I really enjoyed it. Totally. Cool. If you like what I'm doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my health and fitness books, including the number one bestselling weightlifting books for men and women in the world, Bigger Leaner Stronger and Thinner Leaner Stronger, as well as the leading flexible dieting cookbook, The Shredded Chef. Let's talk about what were some of the major obstacles you had to overcome in your journey. So you started, as I mentioned before we started recording, I've done

my best to try to give a kind of one size fits all approach in Bigger, Leaner, Stronger and address some of the changes that you can make if you need to. But inevitably, when people get into the routine of meal planning and training, there are things that come up that weren't necessarily addressed in the book. And so I'm curious, what were some of the more difficult aspects of your transformation? And how did you overcome them? Yeah, So I think really gonna, it's twofold. The first part is nutrition. And I think nutrition is extremely, extremely important. And you know, if you're going to go for a bodybuilding show or if you're going to do a physique competition, you've got to be really dialed in. And that wasn't ever my intent in the initial beginning.

My initial thought was I want to burn some body fat and build some muscle. And I think as I got going and I learned to count my macros, I got almost overly focused on hitting every single carb exactly the way with the right exact timing and all that stuff can be important. But I think for general overall health, I think I got a little too focused on that. And I think I learned as I went through the program, like if I'm up 10 carbs this day and down 10 this day, it's not a huge deal, you know? So I think just kind of being a little more relaxed helped me on that because obviously it's a lifestyle. I totally remember that. I went through the same in the, when I first learned about calories and macros, that's just kind of my personality. We're probably similar in that way. Like if I do something,

I want to do it as well as I possibly can. And so if we're talking about meal planning, that means following it to down to the last calorie, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then trying to find every food that is the perfect macro makeup and what are the most nutritious foods and kind of all that. So almost took that, I think definitely to the extreme. And I think there's, you know, a case to be made for making sure that you're, you're eating whole foods and you're being healthy, but there's also a case to be made for living your life a little bit too and enjoying it. So I definitely got a little bit too focused on that, you know, and that was something that I had to overcome.

Especially when you don't need to be that precise, actually, like you actually do. If like you mentioned, if you're trying to step on stage, especially if you're doing it naturally and you don't have a bunch, you have, you don't have the assistance of a bunch of drugs and you're, let's say you're at 6% body fat and you're just trying to get down to the last, you know, the last little bit of fat that you need to lose. You do have to be very precise. I mean, you're never going to get down to the exact calorie, but you do need to be weighing and measuring everything. And that's just part of that game. But that's not what even I'm doing. That's not what any of us are doing. If you are just wanting to, let's say, get down into the range of if you're a guy, 8% to 10% body fat, or if you're

a woman, maybe 18% to 20%, which is where most people like to be. Yeah, we need to be good enough with our meal planning, but we don't have to try to be perfect. We don't have to take it that far. So it's good that you learned that. And in that point that you mentioned of, okay, so you're over a little bit one day, big deal. Then so what? Be a little bit under the next day. You don't have to even know that you are exactly 10 carbs over. If you just know that like, eh, I probably ate an extra couple hundred calories today. And then especially when you're in maintenance, right. And I'm sure you've experienced this where it's very easy then to just kind of dip in Bob based on your day-to-day,

just how you're eating is kind of playing out, right? Yeah, that's a hundred percent right. And when I figured it out, if I'd eat more carbs, I just tell myself I was carb cycling. So little tips and tricks, but I do love that, you know, and I do love that now as you learn your body and you learn through your workouts and being able to cycle carbs. And I mean, I think that, uh, it's fun to do. It's fun to just kind of play around and see what carbs can do for your performance and how they make you feel. So that was one challenge was learning that you don't have to be as OCD about your calorie intake as you thought going in. Yeah, a hundred percent. And the second one was training, trying to be a perfectionist and do

everything perfect and really focusing on form is like, I did a little weight training when I was younger, when I was probably 18, 19 with a friend of mine and we would weight train and we didn't know what we were doing. We would just kind of do the basics of what we thought was right. But I think I instilled some bad movement patterns and things like that. So really, I think the second challenge I had was overcoming those movement patterns, you know, and doing things with the right form and, you know, really priming before I worked out and just making sure my body was ready and, and focusing on working the right muscles in the right movements. You know, it's easy to let your

body take over because your body's looking kind of to take the easiest motion possible to kind of achieve what you're trying to tell it to do, but to work the right muscle is that mind muscle connection is important. And I think that was the second challenge I had was really trying to focus on that to develop my body in an aesthetic way. And how did you improve in that regard? Cause I totally agree. I remember when I first learned how to squat properly, I had worked up to four Oh five for like quarter squats. And then I learned about the proper, the importance of hitting proper depth. And I was like, Oh, okay. And I didn't reduce the weight and got to the bottom and was like, oh, this is not coming

up and had to bail. So I remember having to learn that like on a number of exercises, which pretty much just meant cutting my weight to, I went from 405 for quarter squats, if I remember correctly, to 185 for sets of like eight to 10, right? Yeah. I've had a lot of those humbling moments. Yeah. Yeah. So I totally know how that goes, but how have you improved in your skill of weightlifting? That's really what we're talking about here, right? It is. It's a skill. It's a complete skill that you have to practice. And, you know, I think you have helped tremendously in BLS to lay out the right form. And then I think you always say it too, is like, there's little hope for people who aren't perpetual learners. And so I'm out there finding resources and I really utilizing you as kind of

like the general contractor of my fitness to where, you know, I really trust what you've put out there. So, you know, if I find other people through you, I really feel a sense of wellbeing and trust in them too. And so Mark Ripito starting strength, I think is great and going through Mark stuff. And I love hearing him on the podcast and, and also mind pump, you know, a lot of mind pump information. I think those guys do a great job kind of laying out how important it is to practice the skill of what you're doing it, you know, treat it as a skill. It's like you said, you can bench press 285, but anytime they ask you to do a four second negative, you got to drop it down at 90 pounds. So it's really just focusing on the skill and the, and the practice with range of

motion on what you're doing. Totally. And as far as mind muscle connection goes, what does that mean for you? And how has that been incorporated into your training? Because for most people starting out, and I understand, I remember we were just trying to, I remember you're just trying to move your body in a halfway smooth, kind of elegant, correct fashion. And then though though once you start getting your form down there is that point of where you can benefit now from putting your attention on the muscles that you are trying to train again this sounds like when i first heard about this from bodybuilders i was like yeah is that is it even necessary does it really matter if i'm so long as i'm doing the movement and it's not a make break point some Some bodybuilders, I've heard them try to say that like,

that's the key is mind muscle connection. And I don't agree and research on it, I guess, wouldn't agree, but I do think it's worth highlighting because once you have your form down, you can definitely enhance your, I think you can enhance your enjoyment of the workout and you probably also can enhance a bit of your results over time. So how has that manifested for you though? Like how do you make that mind muscle connection? I think you're spot on because I think once you make that mind muscle connection, you can work the muscle you're intending to work. And how I do it is that I prime before every workout. So I'll spend time doing different mobility movements and trying to engage the muscle and activate the muscle.

And the other thing is, too, is like really slow down your reps and really try to feel that muscle working. So a lot of people, you know, when you tell them, hey, engage your lats, they really can't. Or the abs are one, you know, too. So so many times people are doing ab workouts and they're like, I feel it in my neck or my back. Yeah. My back. Yeah. Right. So like you're trying to work the abs. So also kind of understanding the anatomy of what each body part does, I think has helped me a little bit. I don't want to work my abs and just work my hip flexors only, you know, the idea is to work my abs. So really trying to feel the muscle and do a little bit of pre-priming workout and slow down my reps has helped me that that's what's worked for me anyway. So yeah, that makes sense. I'm not generally a fan of

super slow rep training. I mean, there's, there's quite a bit of research that's been done on it that shows it is not more effective for muscle or strength gain than just a normal, let's say a normal cadence, right? Of like two ish seconds down, probably a slight pause, two ish seconds up controlled, but also fairly quickly. You're not consciously trying to slow it down. However, for the purpose of working on form and for the purpose of making that mind-muscle connection, I think there's definitely value in that. If I were recommending it to somebody, I'd say it'd probably be something to do on your warm-up sets. I wouldn't do do that in, you know, in my hard sets, like that's where you want to be explosive, but in your warm-up sets, that could be a good opportunity to, or at least with one, or let's say you're doing it,

depending on like, I changed the warm-up routine a little bit from the first, second, third edition, but at least maybe on one of your warm-up sets, kind of slow it down and really feel your body moving, feel your limbs moving, feel your muscles moving and focus on the muscle, working the muscle that you are primarily trying to work. I think there's definitely value in that. Yeah. Because I always think about like, what's my goal? And for too long, I think I was trying to, I knew what my goal was. It was to develop an aesthetic physique, but I wasn't doing the right things to develop the aesthetic physique. I was in the gym trying to lift the most amount of weight, the number, you know, as opposed to really focusing on hypertrophy and form. And I think that just all goes back. If you've got the right form, you should be feeling

it in the muscle that you're trying to work. And, you know, it's like you're doing dumbbell curls. You don't want to swing them up. You know, you want to focus on working the bicep. So those things are all important that my muscle connection is something that is critical to at least know, I think what muscle you're trying to work and what exercise you're trying to do and know that you're not just trying to cheat the rep. I mean, you're just cheating yourself when you do that. Yep, very true. Did you run into any issues or any obstacles related to the types of foods that you're eating? Like, how are you eating when you were 240 pounds?

Were you eating generally nutritious foods or was your diet a lot different than it is now? No, how are you eating when you were 240 pounds? Were you eating generally nutritious foods or was your diet a lot different than it is now? No, I, it's interesting when I, you know, it's like, I'll try to help people through a weight loss journey, especially after going through it yourself and you realize how easy it can be. And, you know, just working with a local company here in Indianapolis named Tandem Nutrition and like just teaching people that you're in a, really a perfect storm, you know, when you're like me and you're 240 teaching people that you're in a really a perfect storm. You know, when you're like me and you're 240 pounds and all you're eating is highly processed foods, it's like your body is primed to like lose weight if we just change a couple of things. So for me,

240 pounds, I was eating pizza and tacos. And especially at 240 pounds at this time, I didn't know what macros were. So I'd go to a restaurant and I'd be like, Hey, I'm going to have the salmon and I'm going to have these Brussels sprouts, but the salmon, even though it's salmon, it's great. The way it's prepared is not as healthy as it could be, you know, and the same thing with the Brussels sprouts, they'd be Brussels sprouts, but they'd also have four strips of bacon and who knows what in them. And I would, where it's like, it's like a thousand calorie side of Brussels sprouts here. Yeah, exactly. And in my head I would think, Hey, I'm doing great. You know, I'm running on the treadmill for an hour. I'm doing cardio. I'm eating my cruciferous veggies. Yeah. And it's

just, it's hilarious how it is. And then you go into something and you read something like bigger, leaner, stronger, and you realize like, Oh my gosh, what I'm doing is it's so easy, but people just don't have that knowledge. And I really, really am passionate about telling people about Legion or about tandem nutrition, about helping people understand, like, we just need to make some small changes to help you lose some weight. And a big piece of that for me was changing the foods I eat. So I was eating pizza, tacos, and that, but I was also going out thinking I was eating healthy. And how that changed is that, you know, as I read your book and started going through like how to weigh food and everything in grams and preparing meals at home and the healthy way, literally just taking away that cardio, focusing on weight training,

changing my diet and drinking more water. And I know those are a lot of changes for people, but for me, they weren't challenging. I just didn't have the knowledge base to know when I did that, the weight literally started to fall off me. Losing 80 pounds and 22% body fat in nine or 10 months is life-changing. And then everybody asks you, what are you doing? And I'm just thinking to myself, I just, I read this one book, Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, and just, you know, getting the word out. So that's kind of where I was prior to Bigger, Leaner, Stronger. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And was that transition from how you're eating previously to how you're eating now, which is probably very similar to how you're eating that what kind of got you here? I'm sure not much has

changed. Was that hard for you? Did you have to give up stuff that you like? I mean, for instance, let's take pizza. Of course you can have some pizza. I'm sure you still have some pizza here and there, but you can't have a large pizza every day. Not that you necessarily were before, but there is a point where if you are also going to provide your body with adequate nutrition, you can't just eat whatever you want. You can't just look at calories and macros. So was there any kind of transition period that you had to go through there or was it pretty straightforward? Yeah. I mean, there definitely was transition when you're giving up things, but like you said, you don't have to give it up forever. You just have to understand what you're putting in your body and how it makes you feel. The other thing I would say too,

is that when I switched over and started eating more whole foods and, you know, like I said, I found, you know, mind pump through you and they work with butcher box. So these healthy foods is grass fed grass, finished beef. And, you know, these whole foods, when I started putting them in my body after just a short time, three, four weeks, you know, I started to realize like I feel a million times better. You know, my body started responding in other ways to where it makes me not want to go back and eat that processed food. So every now and then it's great to have some pizza. You know, I, uh, last year I went to New York and, uh, you know, I went to get some pizza a hundred percent, you know, Manhattan is a great place to be and had a lot of nice restaurants. So I think you got to have a balance in life. So I don't totally give it up,

but for the most part, the way I feel when I eat foods that whole foods, I just feel better. And you know, my body's primed and ready to go. So honestly, when I look back at it, you love chocolate cake, but the way it makes you feel versus the way other things make you feel, it's just, it's not worth it. So, Yep. Yep. And then that's a very common experience, even for people who would maybe even say that they felt like they were kind of addicted to food previously or certain types of foods, but it didn't take long. Usually it's only a few weeks, maybe a month, maybe six weeks before that their relationship with food just fundamentally starts to change. And they start to enjoy eating more nutritious foods, just inherently, they start looking forward to it. And they notice more energy, they notice they sleep better,

they notice there are so many different ways that it can positively impact the body that are noticeable. And so then the idea of going back to eating the way that they were eating, it's not even an option anymore. So that's pretty cool. The sleep was unbelievable. I think that was a huge change is that you eat a whole large pizza from wherever and you get it delivered and you just don't feel good and you don't sleep well. And when you change your diet, your sleep changes, it's just kind of like, it's just natural for your body to do that. And it seems so simple, but we just don't do it. Many people don't do it. And when you start eating those whole healthy foods, you're just nourishing your body and giving it the right nutrients. So it makes a big difference in your

sleep. Yeah. And the training as well. Oh yeah. I can make, I can tell a huge difference when I, when my diet's on point and I'm, I'm in the gym and I'm lifting versus when, you know, I've eaten pizza or tacos or whatever it is and you try to go lift. You just don't feel as good. You don't feel as strong. What are you doing these days as far as workouts go? And I'm not sure exactly when this is going to be going up. I'd have to look on the calendar.

But we are still under lockdown. The beer virus is still disrupting everything. This is April 2nd. Yeah, exactly. Well, when I bought my house, I had an unfinished basement. So I finished the basement and it's about 1,200 square feet and I have a full home gym down there. So I've got power kick press cross cable. I mean, so you can't, yeah, you can't complain about home workouts. Yeah. I have a lot of new friends right now. So, uh, but no, the word is getting out. Yeah, exactly. Right. So, you know, I, I named

my gym heavy debt just cause I feel like every time I walk in the gym, that's what I owe to it to be able to lift and to grow and develop. But it's a, yeah, a home gym, which is phenomenal, especially when it's freezing cold outside or it's late or whatever. There's never an excuse to miss a workout. But, you know, right now I'm running different maps programs from Mind Pump and really enjoying what those guys are putting out there. And also a local company I work with, Tandem Nutrition here in Indianapolis has some programs

that are really good. But Bigger, Leaner, Stronger really for me was the foundation of what I was able to develop and build upon. And I think those, it's kind of like Ripito talks about, those core lifts are really so important. And I think Bigger, Leaner, Stronger helped me develop the deadlift, the squat, the bench, the overhead press, which have been critical cornerstones in my training. Totally. That is a segue and something I should let you and everybody, I think I've mentioned a couple times now, but I have a new second edition of Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger coming this summer. It's almost done. My work on it's almost done. And if you would like even be a Bayer reader, let me know. I'll send you the manuscript and I'd be curious as to your thoughts on the programming. I've been running it for probably like eight

months now as I've continued to develop it and really, really like it. And to that point where you were making it bigger, leaner, stronger, I never intended it to be, this is, Hey, this is the only program you should, you need or should ever do. I would say if you're a guy and you're new to weightlifting and your goal is to gain, let's say about 25, maybe 30 pounds of muscle, you actually probably don't need anything other than Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, period, right? But there is a point where Bigger, Leaner, Stronger becomes a maintenance program. So even if we take the fact that variety can just be fun, it can just be fun to do another program. If you were really just looking at bottom line results, there is a point where Bigger,

Leaner, Stronger will no longer allow you to progress. It just becomes a maintenance program. If you were really just looking at bottom line results, there is a point where Bigger, Leaner, Stronger will no longer allow you to progress. It just becomes a maintenance program. And I talk about this in this new second edition of Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger. And so at that point, from purely the perspective of results, it makes sense to go, okay, where do I go from here? And that's really what this new second edition of Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, it's going to be, I actually don't know what the final word count is. It's probably about as big as BLS 3.0. And it's going to be my full all in comprehensive answer to what do I do next to get as jacked as I possibly can. So I would love to get your feedback on it and see what you think of the programming. Yeah, I would love to read it. You know, I have Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, the first edition, and you know, it's like having extra

things in there, like breaking through different weightlifting plateaus and stuff like that's really great. So yeah, I would love to beta read it and would for sure put the time in and give you some great feedback. So awesome. Awesome. I'll get you. Yeah. Well, I mean, I have your emails. I mean, I have a whole collection of these books at home. I've got the shredded chef. I've got the little black book of workout motivation. I just, I'm waiting for collection of these books at home. I've got the Shredded Chef. I've got the Little Black Book of Workout Motivation. I just, I'm waiting for you. You're the man. Content.

You're the perfect beta reader. Yeah, exactly right. No, so I mean, but honestly, it's like, you're always leery of the guy who sells supplements, who's pushing supplements. Like they're going to do everything for you. And I think one of the first things I saw in Legion and Bigger Leaner Stronger was,

you know, Legion's a supplement company. And I think you're the first person to say, like, you don't need any of it. There's some core critical things that you can take like fish oil and a multivitamin that are nice, but you don't need any of it to build muscle. So that for me, that really drew me in. I'm like, here's a guy who runs a supplement company who's saying you don't need supplements. Yeah. And it's the truth. I mean, it's funny though, that even now there are quite a few companies out there that have now

tried to ape a lot of what Legion's doing, which I understand that's marketing. But even now, I don't see many companies who are willing to just to say that. It's kind of funny to me where it does probably provide me a little bit of a marketing or perception advantage. It's a little bit of a unique part of the unique selling proposition of Legion. unique selling proposition of Legion, but I'm surprised that other companies aren't just coming out and saying it as blatantly as I am because it's true and it does have a persuasive appeal to it just to get someone to listen, to say, hey, because I mean, that's the, as far as copywriting go and persuasion goes, right? Especially write the first words that you're going to say to somebody, have to draw them in. You have to

keep them listening, keep them reading. And so that was why when I originally was kind of putting together, what is the core of this brand that seems counterintuitive? Like some people that maybe don't understand marketing or persuasion would say, would think that, oh, that's dumb. You're just going to turn people off and send people away. And I would say maybe, maybe some people, but those are going to be the lower awareness, lower sophistication. And I don't mean stupid. I mean, those are almost like technical terms marketing wise, just people who are new and maybe would go for the pills that claim to help you lose 20 pounds of fat in a month. Just swallow the pills. fat in a month. Just swallow the pills. And there's a reason why there's a lot of those products. There are people, again, they're not stupid per se. They're just not sophisticated yet. And they're like, hey, I'm new to this. This shit says I'm going to lose 20 pounds in 30 days. I might as well try it. What's the worst case scenario, right? I lose 30 bucks. But then when those people get burned a couple of times, they become more sophisticated. And then

if they find their way to legion, just like what you're saying, then my message resonates a lot more than a lot of the stuff that my competitors say, which are just kind of over the top, overhyped buzzword laden marketing claims that the products can't possibly deliver on. And I love that you, you know, you explain in BLS and, you know, on your website, everything that's in your products. And it's like, you can go to the local supplement shop and you can buy protein powder and it's just full of trash and your stuff is so clean. And, you know, I know you say you don't need supplements, but cue me buying every single supplement that Legion sells. I love them all. I mean, all the way down to Lunar, you know, take Lunar once or twice a week maybe. And I can tell, you know, I track my sleep

and I can tell on those days I sleep better. I get deeper sleep and it's not just like a mind thing. It's not me waking up saying, hey, I think I got better sleep. It's like actually sleep trackers and it shows like deeper sleep and more restfulness. So I certainly buy into Legion stuff and I know you don't need supplements,

but I literally have everything. So, and that's the other thing too, is that there's days when you're busy and you have a hard time getting your protein in. I don't mind taking a Legion protein powder because the ingredients in it, as opposed to taking something that's like packed full of like, oh, this has chips, a whole chunk cookies in it. Well, that's not what I'm going for here. I'm trying to get my protein, but I want it in a clean way. So you definitely have some great products. Totally. Totally. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. A lot of the products were again, just me scratching my own itch. It's me going,

when that's how the whole brand started was I just want to make stuff that I want. And if there was some other company, if Legion would have already existed back in the beginning, I may not have done it. I may have just reached out to them and say, Hey, you're basically doing exactly what I want to do. Is there a way we can work together? But it just didn't exist. So I was like, yeah, worst case scenario is I get stuff that I like and maybe it doesn't turn into some big business. I felt like at the time I had enough of a following. I wasn't worried about getting stuck with like the initial production run, but it's just been fun to be able to do that again, to be able to kind of just continually scratch my own itches and to see that there are other people out there who like the same things

that I like, I guess. Yeah, that's for sure. I think my favorite of all of them has got to be pulse, but that's what started it all. Pulse has like a cult following at this point. Yeah. Yeah. And I love both. I mean, I know the formulation has changed a little bit and you know, I love the improved ingredients. I like the, the, the for me personally just the taste of the older one with the ornithine in it oh you do okay yeah yeah it's my own thing because yeah it's so hard because because flavoring is so subjective where i would say the overall response to the we've made several updates to the flavor just as we've kind of upgraded from flavor labs and some labs are they're just better than others flavoring is actually much more of an art than a science like you can't go to school to learn flavoring.

It's like an old school, almost like medieval system where you are protege of the master flavor and depending on who taught you kind of, you know, it impacts your ability and probably similar to sommeliers, like how well you can smell and taste things is going to factor majorly in how good of a, of a flavor artist you are. But, um, but anyways, the, the general response has been, Oh, people like each new iteration. They've liked more than the last, but it's great. I understand there are people who are even individual flavors. People are like, Oh, I really liked the new green apple, but I prefer the previous blue raspberry. You know, it's hard. Yeah, no, it's still a wonderful product. And I know in the things in it just keep getting better.

You know, you guys add alpha GPC in it and things like that. And I also love that you guys don't put in things that aren't clinically dosed and they're not, they're unknown. So there's different things out there with supplement companies will throw it in there and they just don't know the research on the product. I feel very comfortable taking Legion supplements because I know you guys do your homework. Yep. To that point, there's also a reason why we don't necessarily just take a kitchen sink approach, which there are some pre-workouts out there that have more actives than pulse, but some of the ingredients are redundant. Some of the doses are too low. And I can't take credit for the ingenuity and the work that goes into the

formulations. That's really the scientific advisory board. And I would say Curtis Frank, who heads it up, who's the co-founder and former lead researcher and writer over at examine.com. This is really his forte and he does a great job really thinking deeply about each ingredient and why it's going in the product and how it's going to interact with other ingredients and not putting stuff in there that is, there's the obvious, like not putting stuff in there that's ineffective, but then there also are not so obvious things like, okay, does it make sense to have three different adaptogens in product A, whatever it is, right? No, because when two of them work very similarly in the body, you're not really

going to gain anything more by doubling or even tripling up. Does it make more sense to go down to one and then use the, it's really what it comes down to is if it's a pill, it's space in the pill. And then there's also the money to use that for something else that's actually going to better suit the purpose of the product. And so there is very much an art to formulation as well. It's not just like cruise PubMed abstracts. Pick every supplement. Pick every ingredient you can find that has any sort of efficacy. Throw it all together and voila.

Like that doesn't necessarily make a great product. Yeah, exactly. Just dump it all in there and give it a ride and see what happens. And you guys do a great job to put the right things in there. So, I mean, it's much appreciated. And I always find creative ways to take it too. I'll take some like sugar-free Jell-O and mix it in with pulse and then put, make it a freezer pop or something crazy.

So just more creative ways to take pulse. It's just fun. The old thought about, could we turn these into gummies? Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. You probably could. I'm sure.

The only thing I wish is that you could find some way to make my body not caffeine tolerant. So it's just, you know, you got to cycle it on and off if you really want the true effects of caffeine, which is unfortunate and hard to do, but sometimes you got to do that to get the feeling back. So. Well, all right, man, this was a great discussion. I really appreciate you taking the time to do it. And if you have anything else you want to leave everybody with let's let them know yeah I just if you don't have BLS or you haven't read it or you don't know about it it's just a great book so spend the time read it and really understand it it's like I said read one book ten times don't read ten

books one time just really understand the content and that's a good point actually it's worth punching up a little bit especially when it's a how-to book like bigger leaner stronger or if you're a woman thinner leaner stronger even if And that's a good point, actually. It's worth punching up a little bit, especially when it's a how-to book, like Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, or if you're a woman, Thinner, Leaner, Stronger. Even if you don't necessarily want to get thinner, I had a hard time going. I went back and forth on, should this book be called Fitter, Leaner, Stronger, or Thinner, Leaner, Stronger? Ultimately, I went with Thinner because in speaking with a lot of women, the overwhelming

majority of them who are finding their way to me wanted to lose weight. So they wanted to be thinner. But regardless, if you're a thin woman who wants to get more muscle definition, thinner, leaner, stronger actually is for you. But when you have a book that has a lot of information and is very practical, you were absolutely correct in saying, okay, this is a lot of information. I'm going to make sure that I thoroughly understand this and I'm going to put this to use. I'm not going to now go read seven more books and maybe just come out the other end, actually more confused and not sure what to do anymore. So that was a smart move. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And it's not like BLS might work for

you. It might not like it'll work. If you follow the principles in BLS, if you understand them and follow them properly, you'll get the results you want. So for me, between Bigger, Leaner, Stronger and Tandem Nutrition in Indianapolis, losing 80 pounds and 22% body fat has completely changed my life. And it's also flipped fitness and nutrition to a new mood and a new mode for me to where it's a lifetime thing. And I enjoy doing it because I'm doing it the right way and, you know, kind of accomplishing what I set out to do and able to maintain a great physique. Now, you know, I got down to about 158 pounds at 7% body fat and using principles through bigger, leaner, stronger, and also the coach here in Indianapolis. It's like, I'm right now I'm 184 pounds and I'm probably 9% body fat. So just, yeah, it's just been a great journey. And again,

it's something like you talk about fitness for life. And I think that's what we don't have a weight loss problem in this country. We kind of have a problem where people can lose weight, but then they yo-yo diet right back up. And if you kind of look at BLS and you stick to those principles, it can be really easy to maintain the body weight that you want. And, you know, the other thing is, too, The Shredded Chef is a great book. You know, there's a lot of awesome recipes in there, too, that I really enjoy. So just some great stuff. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks again, Andrew. And I'll quickly just add that there's a lot that we're going to benefit from what we're doing right now as we get older too. So I'm also working

on a book that I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be publishing with Simon & Schuster and that's going to be out next summer. And it's going to be specifically for the 40 plus crowd, men and women. And it's going to accommodate people who are brand new. So it'll be, it'll accommodate the 60 year old guy or gal who's overweight and has never even picked up a weight before in their life, never really even trained their muscles as well as the 45 year old guy or gal who's actually in pretty good shape. They just want to get to the next level and they do work out. Maybe they do train their muscles, but it might be similar to where you were at actually in your before where you weren't lifting weights,

but you were exercising. So let's say just instead of doing cardio, you were doing, you know, bodybuilder workouts, things that magazine workouts or something, but you're like, fuck, why am I still fat? Why am I not looking better? You know what I mean? And so my point was saying that is that as I'm about probably 60% through that manuscript now and done a lot of the research on a lot of the work has done in terms of like the long-term effects of what we're doing and what you're doing. And a lot of people listening are doing what I'm doing. It really is the magic bullet for anti-aging, right? That's a big longevity is a big button and the stuff that we're doing is really the best. It is the 80%. It is the 20% that gives the 80%,

right? So it's pretty cool too. I think you'll appreciate anybody who is in a position like you or me, or again, a lot of people listening are going to appreciate when that book comes out and they read like, Oh wow, this means like, if I just keep doing this, I can be 80 years old and in great shape physically and mentally, and still be enjoying my life and really be able to kind of maintain that quality of life until the end. It's all going to end one day for us, but if we do the right things throughout our life, and as you've talked about, there are things that we've come to enjoy and they're like the natural things that we just do. If we just keep doing it, we have a long, vibrant future to look

forward to. Yeah. And isn't that the goal? You want to live a long life. I mean, that's kind of the idea. And, you know, like you said, it's doing the big rocks and really focusing on those things. And that's what BLS or Finnerly Inner Stronger would give a female. You know, they give you the core basics that you need to do to really see success. And, you know, for me, it's like, you know, I think we are a lot alike because I do. I like to do the 1% things, too, where I do like the juve red light and get into all these little micro details of what I can do

to try to maximize my fitness. And that stuff's great, but really the bulk of what gives you the results are the things that, that bigger, leaner, stronger will teach you. So it's like, I'm so excited to hear that you're kind of developing that new genre and the new book that you're going to kind of put out there to some of the other folks that, you know, maybe they're in their fifties or sixties and have never picked up a weight, because I do have a lot of people in my family that I want to help out. And that's kind of a great piece of content that I could get to them. Yep. Yep. That's going to be exactly, it's going to be a great kind of on ramp to something like bigger leaner, stronger,

thinner leaner, stronger, because again, take a 60 year old man or woman, and let's say they're quite overweight and have never trained their muscles before. You can't just necessarily tell them to go in the gym and start deadlifting heavyweight. They need to start somewhere less challenging. And so this book is going to be able to bridge that gap. It's going to have a beginner program. It's going to have an intermediate program and an advanced program. And I would say anyone who has been on the advanced program for some time would be a perfect candidate for bigger than you're stronger or thinner than you're stronger. If they want to take it even further, many people, they won't want to, and they won't need to. It just depends on where they're at. Like again, this book is going to be, it's going to give them all they need to go from that being

that 60 year old overweight out of shape person to low body fat percentage as low as it doesn't have to be super low, but let's say it's a 60 year old guy who can maintain 15% body fat. He could be thrilled. You know what I mean? And gain a bunch of muscle, gain a bunch of strength, drastically reduces risk of all types of disease and dysfunction, feel and look better maybe than he ever has, maybe, you know, to rival his college days, basically. And so a lot of people are going to be like, shit, I'm super happy with this. I'm just going to keep doing this. Or maybe I want to do some, I want to switch and start doing some fitness classes or whatever. And that's totally cool. But for the people who want to get even more into weightlifting and really try to strive for that last,

you know, let's say last 40% or so 30 or 40% of what is genetically available to them, then they could move on to the more advanced stuff. So I'm pretty excited about it. I think it's going to be my most popular book yet, but we'll see. Yeah. And I mean, to add 10 quality years on your life is just, it's unbelievable. And right now I think you just had Max on the podcast and he's, you know, he wrote the genius life and he talks about food quality and different things like that. So to kind of pair those things, those whole foods, those healthy foods with kind of the program that you're talking about to get people to move, to be active, to improve their fitness, to add on those extra years of really good quality years. I mean, that's huge. That's massive. So yes, sir. That's the

plan. So next summer, next summer, everybody, that's the current plan. I'm on track to deliver the manuscript by May, which is what they requested. If we're going to do a summer launch, they need about a year to go from completed manuscript to launch. And I'm on track for that. So barring any, I guess, random events, that should be the release date. Hey, I was going to ask you, what are you most proud of with what you've done with Legion and kind of the books you've written with Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, Thinner, Leaner, Stronger, all the content that you put out? What's maybe something that you're most proud of? What immediately comes to mind is actually stuff like

this, like seeing firsthand with people how big of a difference it can make. That's got to be up there at the top. And then I would say right beneath that would probably be just having sold a lot of books. And that might sound silly, but the reason being, the reason is researching and writing is the work that I enjoy the most. And I like marketing as well, but a lot of what I enjoy about marketing is copywriting. So it kind of comes back to writing and, and, or even if it's a video, but still I like, I wrote a script for it, you know what I mean? And so that's something that I could see myself doing for the rest of my life because I just really enjoy it. And because I do really enjoy it, I personally am, I mean, maybe proud is the word, maybe satisfied is the word. I just think that it's like a goal. I've accomplished a goal. So I've sold, I don't know, over one and a half

million books now. And that's rare in any genre, but in fitness, there's only probably a handful of people who have sold that many books in fitness. Now you get into health and diet. Of course you have multi, multi-million copy bestsellers, but fitness is a smaller niche, right? You have Starting Strength has done very well. You have Arnold's Encyclopedia has done very well. You have Frederic Delavier's stuff that's on. You have Body for Life sold millions of copies. So you do have some big sellers out there. So as a writer, that's pretty fulfilling as well. And I think that if I just keep going and doing what I'm doing, I could probably come out the other end of this as the best sellingest fitness author of all time.

And I don't know. That to me is, again, it's satisfying because I enjoy writing. And if I'm going to do something, I want to do it well, right? Yeah, absolutely. Well, you're a great communicator. And I mean, the books continue to get better. 2.0, 3.0. And just the content that you put across.

One thing that is, I think, the most important to being effective is just being a good communicator. And you did an awesome job of that through the book. So I want to get Sal, Adam, and Justin and you in the same room at some point, man, that would be great. And hopefully you guys will have a live event coming up where you guys are able to get together. And I know you guys were going to try to do something at the Arnold that didn't quite work out, but. Yeah, actually.

And I, and I let Sal know on that, that I said, Hey, because Legion was going to, we're going to have a whole booth. We're going to do a whole thing at the Arnold. And of course that got canceled. And so then the only thing that I had was this event with them. And I said, Hey, if it's an issue, like I can come, but I just kind of let them know saying, Hey, I'm not planning on coming for any of the other things that I was going to do. kind of let them know saying, Hey, I'm not planning on coming for any of the other things that I was going to do. If it's a problem, like if this is something that was, you know, you were pitching and this is part of the reason why people are coming to the event, then I'll fly up for it. And Sal said, no, I said, that's not a big deal. We'll do it on the next

one. You guys are all great. It's just like, you're preaching the right message for fitness longevity. And I was able to have dinner with them on that Friday night there. And you know, they're just so authentic, exactly how they are on their podcasts. And you guys all do a great job just to preach the right message on fitness for long-term sustainable results. So it's just, it's really appreciated everything that you guys do. Thanks brother. Appreciate it. Lots more good things to come. Yeah, man. Absolutely. Looking forward to it. Okay. Thanks again for taking the time to do this. Yep. Thanks, Mike. to me from in whichever app you're listening to me in, because that not only convinces people that they should check out the show, it also increases search visibility. And thus it helps

more people find their way to me and learn how to get fitter, leaner, stronger, healthier, and happier as well. And of course, if you want to be notified when the next episode goes live, then simply subscribe to the podcast and you won't miss out on any new stuff. And if you didn't like something about the show, please do shoot me an email at mike at muscleforlife.com, just muscle, F-O-R, life.com, and share your thoughts on how I can do this better. I read everything myself and I'm always looking for constructive feedback, even if it is criticism. I'm open to it. And of course, you can email me if you have positive

feedback as well, or if you have questions really relating to anything that you think I could help you with, definitely send me an email. That is the best way to get ahold of me, mikeatmuscleforlife.com. And that's it. Thanks again for listening to this episode. And I hope to hear from you soon.