Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - How Effective Is Reverse Pyramid Training?

Episode Date: September 24, 2021

I’ve churned through over 150,000 emails, social media comments and messages, and blog comments in the last 6 years. And that means I’ve fielded a ton of questions. As you can imagine, some questions pop up more often than others, and I thought it might be helpful to take a little time every month to choose a few and record and share my answers. So, in this round, I answer the following question: Is reverse pyramid training a good way to train? If you have a question you’d like me to answer, leave a comment below or if you want a faster response, send an email to [e-mail]. Timestamps 3:24 - What is reverse pyramid training (RPT)? 10:56 - Is reverse pyramid training effective? 14:02 - What are the advantages of reverse pyramid training? 18:23 - What are the downsides of reverse pyramid training? Mentioned on the Show: Shop Legion Supplements Here: https://buylegion.com/mike Beyond Bigger Leaner Stronger: https://legionathletics.com/products/books/beyond-bigger-leaner-stronger/

Hey there, and welcome to another episode of Muscle for Life. I am your host, Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today. And if you are not new here, if you have listened to episodes before and you're back for more, go ahead and subscribe to the show in whatever app you are using for two reasons. One, it'll make sure you don't miss future episodes because by subscribing, For two reasons. One, it'll make sure you don't miss future episodes because by subscribing, the app will then queue up new episodes that get posted. And two, it'll help me because it will boost the rankings of the show on the various charts, which of course makes the show easier to find for other people. Okie dokie. So in this episode, I'm going to be answering a question that I was asked and I get asked a lot of good questions every day via social media and email. And this time around, I'm going to be talking about reverse pyramid training. Is that a good way to train? And if you want to ask me

questions, you can reach out to me on Instagram at Muscle for Life Fitness. Just DM me or you can send me an email, which is the better way to reach me. It's the way that I prefer to be honest, because I can manage my email a little bit better than I can manage my DMs. And my email address is Mike at MuscleForLife.com. That's spelled out for F-O-R, MuscleForLife.com. And do keep in mind to get a lot of communication every day. So you may have to wait a little bit for an day. So you may have to wait a little bit for an answer, but you will hear back from me. And if your question is one that many other people are asking about, or if it's something that just strikes my fancy, I may choose

to answer it here on the podcast as well. Also, if you like what I am doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my sports nutrition company, Legion, which thanks to the support of many people like you is the leading brand of all natural sports supplements in the world. And we're on top because every ingredient and dose in every product is backed by peer-reviewed scientific research. Every formulation is 100% transparent. There are no proprietary blends, for example. And everything is naturally sweetened and flavored. So that means no artificial sweeteners, no artificial food dyes, which may not be as dangerous as some people would have you believe, but there is good evidence to suggest that having many servings of artificial sweeteners in particular

every day for long periods of time may not be the best for your health. So while you don't need pills, powders, and potions to get into great shape, and frankly, most of them are virtually useless, there are natural ingredients that can help you lose fat, build muscle, and get healthy faster, and you will find the best of them in Legion's products. To check out everything we have to offer, including protein powders and bars, pre-workout and post-workout supplements, fat burners, multivitamins, joint support, and more, head over to buylegion.com slash Mike. That's B-U-Y-L-E-G-I-O-N dot com slash Mike.

And just to show you how much I appreciate my podcast peeps, use the coupon code MFL at checkout, and you will save 20% on your entire first order. All right. So the question that I will be answering today is what are my thoughts on reverse pyramid training? Well, first let's talk about what reverse pyramid training is. It is basically the opposite of the more traditional pyramid style of training where you start an exercise with, let's say 10 reps, and then you add weight. And on the next set, you do, let's say eight reps. Usually you are reducing your reps by two. So you're adding five to 10 pounds to the exercise and doing two fewer reps with each successive set. But with

reverse pyramid training, it's the other way around. You start with your heaviest set and fewest number of reps, and then you take weight off of the bar or you reduce the weight on the machine or you drop down to the lighter dumbbells. Usually you're going down by 10 pounds in all cases. So with dumbbells, you might go from, let's say 80 pounds for four reps to 75 pounds for six reps in the next set and so on and so forth. And again, you are usually dropping 10 pounds off of the exercise, which then gives you an extra two reps. That's normally how it goes. So again, the opposite of the traditional bodybuilding pyramid style of training and both of those pyramided styles of training are different than straight sets, which is also a very traditional way to

lift weights where you are doing the same number of reps in each set with the same amount of weight, unless you have to reduce weight on the exercise to continue doing the number of reps that you're supposed to be doing. So for example, in my own training, in my Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger program, which is what I'm following these days. And I've been following it for about two years now, maybe even a little bit more than two years now. Each training block starts with doing sets of 10 on your primary exercises, on your big compound lifts, and you're doing four sets of each exercise in each workout. And what happens to me in almost every training block is on the third and fourth sets, I can't get 10 reps with the same weight. My first set will be smooth, solid 10 reps,

one to two, maybe even three good reps left. And then set two, I usually lose one to two good reps left. So I can still get 10 reps, but it is significantly harder. Maybe I can get the 10 on three with like zero or one good reps left, but then usually on set four, if I don't reduce the weight, I'm only going to get probably seven or eight reps. So I often have to take five or 10 pounds off of the bar to get 10 reps in that final set, as opposed to seven or eight. And if you are following beyond bigger, leaner, stronger, and you are running into the same issue, a note I've made for a future update to the book and to the program, it's a minor thing, but I think it would be worth adding into the book and into the programming is when you calculate your 1RMs

from your rep max testing that you do at the end of a training block, and then you go to program your next training block with those 1RMs, reduce them to 95% of what you have calculated and then calculate your 10 rep weight with that number. So 75% of 95% of your estimated one rep max, instead of 70% of 100% of your one rep max or your calculated one rep max on that exercise, unless you don't run into the same problem as I do. If you can work with 100% of that estimated 1RM and you can, let's say, load 70% of it on the bar and get four sets of 10, you don't miss any sets, then nevermind. You can just keep on doing it exactly as it's outlined in the book. But if you are having the same issue, a simple fix is again working with 95% of that calculated one rep max. And the reason why it doesn't work as it quote unquote should on paper is of course,

these are estimated one rep max and rep max numbers. And unfortunately, with the different evidence-based methods that are out there, they are most accurate at let's say six to seven reps and down, and they become less accurate at eight, nine, 10 plus reps. So while your one rep max, your actual one RM may be quite accurate. It may be estimated quite accurately based on your rep max testing that you did at the end of the last training block because that was heavy weight. You probably got four to six reps. And again, the 1RM calculation methodologies, they work well with those types of numbers, but they don't extrapolate all that well out to sets of eight, nine, and 10 reps. So it gets a little bit hazy. You're going to be in the ballpark,

but you may need to adjust usually a little bit down. I've yet to hear from people who say, Hey, I calculate my one or Ms at the end of the training block. And then I put 70% of that calculated one or M after my deload weeks, this is only two weeks later. These are fresh one or M calculations. These are heavy weights. I rarely, I don't think I've actually don't think I have heard from somebody who says that they do that and then find that it's too easy that they're getting their four sets of 10 with like three or four reps in reserve and they need to add weight to the bar. I've only heard from people who have had the same issue

as I have had. So if you are one of those people, again, just reduce that calculated 1RM to 95% and then use that number for your 10 rep calculation, your eight rep if necessary. And then by the time you get to your six reps, you may not need to anymore. You may be able to work with that 100% of the estimated one RM, because again, the estimation methods work better with heavier weights and fewer reps. And you probably will have gained at least a little bit of strength in that first mesocycle. And if you're not sure what I'm talking about, because you haven't read my book Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, but if you are interested, if what I just said sounds interesting to you from a programming perspective, just check

out my book Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, and it will break it all down. Of course, it has the how, which is kind of what I just explained, as well as the why. You're going to learn more about the mechanics of muscle building, the grammar of gains. And it is particularly, this book is particularly for intermediate and advanced weightlifters. Obviously, given the title, it is written for men or it's at least written toward men, but women can learn a lot from it. They will probably just want to tweak the programming to reduce the upper body volume and increase the lower body volume. At least most women will probably want to do that. And the book gives you all the tools that you need to do that. But if you are a woman and you read it and you're

not sure what to do, just shoot me an email, mikeatmuscleforlife.com, and I will be happy to help you. Okay, so now let's get back to RPT. So you know what it is, reverse pyramid training. You know how it works. And let's talk about its efficacy. So it is a viable training method. It is definitely a viable way to program your training. In fact, the first edition of Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, which I published years ago, four or five, six years ago, was an RPT style of training. In your first set, you would do, if I remember correctly, you would do, you'd warm up and then on your primary exercises, on your compound lifts, you would do sets of two, you would do one or two sets of two reps with a weight that was heavy enough to allow for just one or two good reps left. So for most people that's 90 or 95%

of one rep max, but instead of calculating one rep maxes, I was just working with the good reps left, the reps in reserve. So you had to make sure that the weight was heavy enough that you weren't pushing to absolute failure or even one rep shy of failure where you don't have any good reps left. You were still leaving a couple of good reps in the tank. And then you'd move on to one or two sets of four reps and then one or two sets of six reps, if I remember correctly. And then with the secondary, with the accessory exercises, the weights weren't quite heavy. You were doing sixes, eights, tens. And many people got great

results with that program. I got great results with that program. I hit all-time PRs on that program. I got 365 on the back squat for two or three. I got 295 on the bench press for, I think it was two, maybe three. I'd have to look in my training logs, but two or three. I got 225 on the seated military press for two. That's quite strong. And I got into the low 400s, 420s, I believe, on my deadlift for three or four, but then I hurt my SI joint and couldn't progress any further. I could have gotten stronger, I think, on that if I wouldn't have gotten hurt. It wasn't a major injury, but it did set me back. And at that point, I had already been lean gaining for four or five months and I was sick of it. I was sick of eating 4,000 plus calories per day. I was at the point where I really just felt like I was force feeding myself every meal every day. And so I called it quits on the lean bulking. And then I switched to cutting to get into really good shape for a photo shoot. And of course, I didn't gain any more strength to speak of from that point forward. I lost strength throughout that cut. Not a lot, but just as you would expect, because I went from about 205 is where my weight peaked at that time down to 182 was my low

point. I got quite lean. And so you simply can't maintain all of your strength naturally when you lose 20 plus pounds. So as to the advantages of reverse pyramid training, one is it has you do your hardest work first in your workouts when you have the most energy and the most focus. And that is generally the best way to train. There are exceptions, but for most people, they are going to get the best results if they start their lower body workouts with, let's say, their barbell squat, a back squat, front squat, or some similar type of squat versus starting with quad extensions or hamstring curls. And with RPT, you would start with your barbell squat and you would start with your heaviest weight, which is in some ways your

most difficult work. Even though the higher rep stuff, I would say, feels more difficult. It's more fatiguing. It's more exhausting. The lower rep higher weight work though is more demanding. It demands more of your concentration. It demands better technique. On the whole, I would say it is harder. It's just when you're doing sets of eight or 10, those last few reps are grueling because of the cardiovascular demands and the general fatigue that you experience. What's more, a major reason to do higher weight, lower rep work is to maximize strength gain. And you are going to be able to use maximally heavy weights and you are going to handle them maximally well in the beginning of your workouts when you're

freshest, as opposed to the more traditional bodybuilding pyramid, where you would start with your lower weight, higher rep work. And by the time you get to the heavy weights, you are significantly more fatigued both mentally and physically than when you started the workout or the exercise. Let's say it's your first exercise in the workout. It is a barbell back squat, and you are going to use a traditional bodybuilding pyramid. You're going to do a set of 10, and then you're going to go down to eight and then six and then four. When you get to that fourth set of four, you are going to perform significantly worse in terms of how much weight you can put on the bar and handle for four reps

and end with, let's say one or two good reps in reserve, good reps left, which is generally a good idea. That set is going to be significantly worse than if you flipped your pyramid scheme around and started with the heaviest, started with the four rep set. So again, that is a significant benefit of reverse pyramid training versus the more traditional bodybuilding pyramid style of training. With RPT, you can also use your higher rep sets to squeeze in extra volume and that can help with muscle growth. So you're starting the exercise with your strength building sets that require maximum muscle contraction, maximally heavy weights, and then you are lowering the weights and doing higher reps and racking up some extra volume for the muscle group that you are training. People who

like reverse pyramid style training also like that it adds variability. They find that it makes their training more interesting as opposed to straight sets, for example, where you would only do tens or eights or sixes or fours or whatever. And lastly, RPT can be useful, especially for intermediate and advanced weightlifters who have to do a fair amount of volume per major muscle group per week to continue gaining muscle and strength because it allows them to do some heavy work as well as some lighter work, which is easier on your joints and on your body. It is very hard to do, let's say 15 to 20 hard sets per major muscle group per week, exclusively in the range of let's say six reps or fewer. It's hard on your joints. It's just hard on your body. It's not very feasible. What does

work though is to, let's say, split up those sets half-half, half of them at six reps or fewer, and the other half of those sets at, let's say, seven reps or higher. That you can do without beating yourself up too much. Now, RPT does have its downsides though. Many RPT programs, for example, will tell you to train to failure or just shy with zero good reps left, meaning that if you were to go for that next rep, you will fail. And that is not necessary. It's certainly not necessary to train to absolute failure really ever. It's okay if you do it here and there on accessory exercises, you know, a set of biceps curls and you take it to absolute failure where you can't move the weight anymore.

You are stuck in the middle of the rep and you have to put the dumbbells down or put the barbell down. Okay, fine. Or same thing with side raises or rear raises for your shoulders. okay, fine. Or same thing with side raises or rear raises for your shoulders. But I would not recommend you do that on a barbell squat or a deadlift or a bench press or an overhead press, not because it is dangerous, although it does increase the chances of your form breaking down. So if you are not an experienced weightlifter who knows how to maintain proper form all the way up to failure, you are increasing your chances of getting hurt, but it's just not necessary. Research shows that

training to failure is actually not more effective than training close to failure. So that is a downside of RPT, not with the underlying principles, but just with how it's often prescribed. Another downside for some people who are not experienced enough as weightlifters is they find it hard to calculate their proper working weights. So when they're supposed to be doing tens, they're putting weight on the bar that actually allows for 12 or maybe they can only get eight and then when they're supposed to go down to eight maybe if they got eight the first time okay now they're getting eights again but they were supposed to do tens on the first or if they got 12 on the first they now do eight on the second set but they have like four good reps left so

really that should have been their 10 rep weight. And it can get messy if you don't have good training logs and a good sense of your abilities, a good sense of how many reps you will be able to get with a given weight and approximately how many good reps you are going to have left in that set. Another caveat with reverse pyramid training is I don't think it is suitable to newer weightlifters who are learning proper form, who are building their foundation of strength and muscle, because it is an unnecessary complexity to add to the programming. They could just do straight sets. They could be doing straight fours. They could be doing straight sixes, eights, tens, depending on who they are and where they're at and what they're trying to do.

But there's no good reason to mix up the rep ranges, at least for the first year or two. And another reason I wouldn't recommend many RPT programs to newbies in particular is, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of them call for training to failure. And this not only increases your chances of getting hurt, but it also increases your chances of learning incorrect form because research shows that our skill acquisition machinery works a lot better when we are not mentally or physically fatigued and training beyond that point of fatigue, mental or physical fatigue, can be detrimental to skill acquisition, to learning the proper technique. And so when you are new to weightlifting, one of your primary goals is to learn the very close, let's say one rep shy of failure, if you start training that intensely on those exercises right away, chances are you are not going to learn perfect technique. and those technique flaws eventually can get in the way of your progress later or even increase

the risk of injury later when the weights are a lot heavier. Now, if you're wondering what the scientific literature has to say on reverse pyramid training, unfortunately, I don't know of any studies that have looked at RPT specifically, but several studies have shown that the traditional pyramid style of training, the 12, 10, 8, 6 method is no more effective than traditional straight set training. And while the regular bodybuilding pyramid is of course different than the reverse pyramid, they are similar in so far as they vary the rep ranges and the intensities set to set in the same workout. And of course, the studies that I just referenced are not great evidence that RPT is less effective than standard training, but it does suggest that varying rep ranges

and intensities on a single exercise in a single workout is not as great in reality as it may sound in theory. That said, RPT is an effective way to gain muscle and strength. It is probably not more effective than straight sets, but it is also probably not less effective. So if you are not new to weightlifting, if you are a guy who has gained his first, let's say 15 to 25 pounds of muscle, or if you're a woman who has gained about half of that amount of muscle, which means you have at least one year of good training behind you and you have good form on the big exercises. And if you want to mix up your training, just try something new that is not going to get in the way. It's not going to set you back. Then you can give reverse pyramid training a go. But I would recommend a different style of periodizing your training,

which would be changing your rep ranges, changing your intensities, at least in the context of weightlifting. Periodization is focusing a period of your training on something specific like gaining muscle or gaining strength or improving some aspect of your technique. And in weightlifting, when we talk about periodization, we are talking about varying rep ranges, varying intensities. And the methodology that I would recommend is in my book, Beyond Bigger Than You're Stronger, which I will just plug again, because I would recommend that program over RPT, but you could try both and just see which you like more and which your body

responds best to. Well, I hope you liked this episode. I hope you found it helpful. And if you did subscribe to the show because it makes sure that you don't miss it helpful. And if you did subscribe to the show, because it makes sure that you don't miss new episodes. And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you. And if you didn't like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email, mike at muscleforlife.com, muscleforlife.com, and let me know what I could do better or just what your thoughts are about maybe what you'd

like to see me do in the future. I read everything myself. I'm always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode and I hope to hear from you soon.