Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - How Jay Lost 51 Pounds and Saved His Life With Bigger Leaner Stronger

Episode Date: April 13, 2022

In this podcast, I interview Jay, who read Bigger Leaner Stronger and used what he learned in my books and podcasts to turn his life around both physically and mentally. Not only has Jay lost over 50 pounds so far while getting stronger every week, but his mental health has radically improved. Jay is the perfect example of how getting in shape and taking control of your health can dramatically boost your mood and mindset. Before finding my work, Jay battled post-traumatic stress, anxiety, and depression, and even tried to take his own life. Luckily, he failed, and started to take baby steps towards improving his physical health, which dramatically affected his mental health. As Jay puts it in the interview, he doesn’t know if he’d be here if it wasn’t for using what he learned in Bigger Leaner Stronger to start nourishing his body with nutritious food and getting active with resistance training and cardio. Since then, Jay decided to sign up for my VIP coaching program and in this interview, Jay and I chat about his story, and the obstacles he’s navigated along the way, including how he eased into fitness with walks and bodyweight movements, how he overcame gym intimidation, how he stopped coping with alcohol, why he decided to sign up for coaching, how fitness has affected his mental state, and a lot more. So if you’re looking for a jolt of inspiration and like motivational stories, definitely listen to this episode. Timestamps: 0:00 - Legion VIP One-on-One Coaching: https://buylegion.com/vip 7:32 - Where were you with your fitness before you found Legion and where are you now? 50:02 - How was your experience going through the program twice? 57:37 - How has your mental health improved? 1:09:37 - How do you differentiate if your body is warming up, rusty, or sore? 1:24:14 - Is there anything you would like to add? Mentioned on the show: Legion VIP One-on-One Coaching: https://buylegion.com/vip Bigger Leaner Stronger: https://legionathletics.com/products/books/bigger-leaner-stronger/ The Shredded Chef: https://legionathletics.com/products/books/the-shredded-chef/ Muscle For Life: https://legionathletics.com/muscle-for-life-book/

Hello, and welcome to Muscle for Life. I'm your host, Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today to listen to an interview I did with Jay Shaw. And Jay read my book, Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, and he used what he learned in that book and a few other books of mine and my podcasts to turn his life around, really, physically and mentally. Because not only has Jay now lost over 50 pounds while gaining a ton of strength, getting stronger every week. It's fun to be new, right? His mental health has also radically changed and radically improved.

In fact, I think Jay is just a perfect example of how getting in shape and just taking control of your health and taking control of your body composition can dramatically improve your stress, anxiety, depression, even tried to take his own life. Fortunately, that didn't work. And he then started to take baby steps toward improving his physical health, which then spilled over to his mental health. And as Jay explains in this interview, he really doesn't know if he would be here if it wasn't for using what he learned in Bigger Leaner Stronger to start training his body and nourishing his body with nutritious food and getting active using his body. Then Jay decided to sign up for my VIP coaching program. And in this interview, Jay and I talk about his story, the obstacles that he has navigated along the way before and after coaching. So on Bigger Leaner Stronger and then working with one of my coaches.

Jay talks about how he eased into fitness with walks and body weight movements, which I love. Great tips. love. Great tips. That's exactly what I recommend in my newest book, Muscle for Life, for example, which is intended for particularly for the 40 plus crowd and for people who are brand new to all of this stuff and who are not in good shape or maybe in very bad shape right now. Walking, body weight training, great place to start. Jay talks about overcoming gym intimidation, how he stopped using alcohol to cope with his problems, and more. But first, how would you like to know a little secret that will help you get into the best shape of your life? Here it is. The business model for my VIP coaching service sucks. Boom, mic drop. And what in the

fiddly frack am I talking about? Well, while most coaching businesses try to keep their clients around for as long as possible, I take a different approach. You see, my team and I, we don't just help you build your best body ever. I mean, we do that. We figure out your calories and macros, and we create custom diet and training plans based on your goals and your circumstances. And we make adjustments depending on how your body responds. And we help you ingrain the right eating and exercise habits so you can develop a healthy and a sustainable relationship with food and training and more. But then there's the kicker.

Because once you are thrilled with your results, we ask you to fire us. Seriously, you've heard the phrase, give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Well, that summarizes how my one-on-one coaching service works. And that's why it doesn't make nearly as much coin as it could, but I'm okay with that because my mission is not to just help you gain muscle and lose fat. It's to give you the tools and to give you the know-how that you need to forge ahead in your fitness without me. So dig this. When you sign up for my coaching, we don't just take you by the hand and walk you through the entire process of building a body you can be proud of. We also teach you the all-important whys behind the hows, the key principles, and the key techniques you

need to understand to become your own coach. And the best part? It only takes 90 days. So instead of going it alone this year, why not try something different? Head over to muscleforlife.show slash VIP. That is muscleforlife.show slash VIP and schedule your free consultation call now. And let's see if my one-on-one coaching service is right for you. Hey, Jay, thanks for taking the time to come and chat with me. Thank you for having me, Mike. It's a pleasure being here. Yeah, yeah. Where do you live, by the way? I'm in a town called Guildford, Surrey, which is about 30 miles south of London, about half an hour on the train.

It's very green. It's a small place, quite an affluent area. It's like being in London, but in Waltz. Nice. Yeah, I've never been to England. I've been all around Europe. But for whatever reason, I just never made it over across the channel. My wife is from Germany. So, again, I've been to Europe many times. And I feel like every time I would go, we'd end up going other places. And then we would say, all right, let's go to England on the next trip. But then on the next trip, we would end up just... So one of these days, maybe...

I don't know how the restrictions are right now. Maybe when I can have fun, at least. I think in the last couple of years, England's been anything but fun. In fact, even two years before the pandemic, with all the shenanigans with Brexit, it's just been... Everyone's been in quite an angry and miserable mood. I think things are starting to improve now,

but next time you do make your way over to Germany, it's worth having a couple of days stop over in London and just go and see the sights, just to tick it off and say you've done it. Yeah, yeah, go to the museums. Yeah. I mean, I enjoy doing, in most places I've traveled to, for the first couple of days, there's always touristy things that at least I like to do. Yeah.

Because I like walking around and seeing the sights. I mean, it literally is just looking at the rocks and eating the food. But it's fun for a few days. Absolutely. Absolutely. Just to say you've done it. And the good thing about London is you can get around on foot. I know it's a big city, but it's better for a few days. Absolutely. Absolutely. Just to say you've done it. And the good thing about London is you can get around on foot. I know it's a big city,

but it's better done on foot. There's a lot to see and take in. Lots of places to go off the beaten track as well. I didn't have to go far to find somewhere that's not too touristy and get great places to eat. So I think you'd enjoy it. Cool. Cool.

Well, it's, it's, it's on the list. It'll, it'll happen. Maybe, I don't know about this year, maybe enjoy it. Cool, cool. Well, it's on the list. It'll happen maybe, I don't know about this year, maybe next year. Again, I haven't, I haven't, I've just been so busy. I haven't even been paying attention to where Europe and where the UK is at with COVID restrictions and so forth. I've just seen some headlines that things are generally loosening, but I don't know what that really means on the ground.

You know what I mean? We've got an indoor policy now, and I think it was about a few weeks ago. They should relax all travel restrictions when people go in and out of the country. Cool. Well, let's shift gears and let's talk about your fitness.

And where I like to start these discussions is, why don't you just give us a quick overview of kind of like a before and after snapshot, where you're at now versus where you were at maybe before finding me and my work and feel free to share whatever dimensions of where you're at mean the most to you maybe it's body comp stuff or maybe it's a combination of body comp plus other lifestyle health benefits whatever okay so um this is the second time i've come back to you and your work um um we'll probably talk about the first time just because um i think it'll paint a better story in terms of why i'm here now but i think it's about three or four years ago, I'd suffer a number of calamities,

which resulted in various mental disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, depression. But quite suicidal. Didn't take good care of myself. Sentenced to some really bad habits. Drank too much. Ate completely and utterly garbage. Didn't move around. Was in the back of a couple of really nasty car accidents um so that took me some time to mentally recover and the physical recovery wasn't as bad

it didn't take that long with some mental scars but what had happened was over the course of a couple of years i've just completely let myself go um and some terrible habits habits and as a result I think I gained a good three stone which originally I was quite a slender person at six foot two and quite fit and active I sort of feted myself at Christmas dinner in 2018 and this is the one that really prompted me to do something about it I I'm staring at the camera. I've been caught off guard. Both of my cheeks are full. I know a beast's gerbil has been caught red-handed.

I decided to start the new year off, as most people do, with some health goals. Did a bit of reading and research about you. Started to read your blogs and yeah and your website started listening to some of your podcasts ordered a bunch of stuff from your website um i think i've got some triumph pulse forge phoenix anything i'll get my hands on without incurring too much of a hit on duty um and then started following uh your program from BLS loosely but what I found was um I didn't have without someone sort of beating me I wasn't really sort of following it to the T and I don't think my nutrition was that great so I hired a personal trainer who

he was pretty good but um as most personal trainers, they're not kind of in it for themselves. I got myself into reasonable shape in 2019. That's about probably 14% body fat, considering I was obese 33 or four months before, quite a turnaround, and things were going great. I had a plan in mind and the sort of body I wanted to get to. 2019, met a girl, got a with which involved a lot of travel lots of hotels fancy pants restaurants and before you know it i'm back into into crummy habits and eating out all the time drinking too much entertaining um and then the pandemic uh which meant i was sat

on my ass for a year and a half indoors be very depressed uh really bad habits ordering food straight to my door pretty much put into my mouth too much drink um and gradually but slowly but surely the weight starts to pile on and it came to a head loss summer where i had a really bad bout of depression brought on by some extreme pressures at work. I think with the pandemic and people working from home, the boundaries between work and life, there were no more. There was no commute to bookend at the start and the end of the working day. And the company I was working for at the time was multinational. So even during normal world, with people going into the office, there would have been a lot of demand on my time.

But when you were at home, it was kind of expected to be constantly on call 24 hours a day, very high pressure. It's all about sales numbers. I didn't really cope very well with that, given the fact that I was not coping at all by being indoors and being isolated from friends and family. not coping at all by being indoors and being isolated from friends and family and it got to the point where I think at one point I uh in the middle of the night got up got my clothes on and took a walk to the river with full intention of not coming back

um obviously I'm still here I didn't I didn't take that final swim but it was enough to to scare me, the fact that I got myself into this position. So I made some big changes. I quit my job, took some time out, went back up to see my parents. They lived in the countryside. Get away from it all. Dusted off my copy of BLS whilst I was there. And again, extremely overweight i was i was a beast i was 104 105 kilos uh out of breath just getting out of bed brushing my teeth was an effort

so i i listened to you i listened to the small things that you know despite how out of control the world around you might be there are some things that you can't control often and two things you can start with that can have a profound effect on the way you feel is what you put into your body and how much you move and just with those two small changes i started to i cut out all the crap i started to eat nutritious food fruit vegetables whole grains whole food and started to move and I started off slowly um just by going out for long walks um so you built myself up to do the couch to 5k and there was one constant throughout it which is what prompted me to reach out to you I listened to one of your podcasts every time I went out for a walk and every time I went home I reread a

chapter of BLS I think that thing is so well thumbed now it's probably it's no good to anybody now but um I got to the point where by the end of the year I think after about six weeks of just watching what I ate making sure I got some steps in every day, some of it low intensity through walking and some of it high intensity, some interval training. I managed to drop 30 pounds or so, then joined the gym in December, started following the BLS five-day split slowly to begin with because I was a bit nervous in terms of how my body would respond. And thankfully, it responded really well. I mean, there is such a thing as muscle memory.

Thank the gods of gains for that, because it really... It's nice to actually experience, right? Absolutely. It just soaked it all up, and it just wanted more. And I wanted more as well, because I can see the changes every day. And you know what's cool, just to interject quickly, is research suggests that those adaptations are likely permanent, meaning that you do the work once. Now, in an ideal world, we would more or less maintain what we want to

maintain indefinitely, right? But life can get in the way, the world can get in the way. And so, what research suggests is you do the work once and you always have that capacity for the accelerated regaining of muscle, even if the time off, I mean, it could be years off and then you come back to it. It's not entirely clear, but I would say that that's where the research seems to be pointing. And so it's just another nice uh kind of fringe benefit to doing this just knowing that there is a permanent payoff if if things get in the way and you have to get back to it it will always be it appears that it will always be easier and more rewarding yeah the, fourth, whatever time than it was the first time.

It's like seeing an old friend again. Nothing's changed. You just pick up where you left off. And it's very comforting as well, knowing that you will see progress relatively quickly as long as you stick to the plan and take care of what you eat. So follow your basics principles nutritious food stick to whole foods um try and do a bit of cardio for week every week and I found I never thought I'd ever call myself a runner but I've really embraced it I mean I hate it to be fair but what I have found is that it's great for clearing the mind getting away from my desk my laptop for half an hour smashing out a quick 5k come back and everything's very different and i feel like i've you know i've

done something worthwhile as well so sticking to the principle of doing a bit of high intensity cardio maybe a bit of light light cardio if i fancy it but progressive overload just constantly going in and trying to beat the person i was last week it's me versus me every time i go into the gym um and i've noticed that i've got stronger week on week i feel fitter i feel healthier my mind is clearer i'm sleeping like an absolute baby i'm swear i've let this well in in years i can't remember the last time i put my head down and woke up eight and a half hours later maybe with one bathroom break but eight and a half hours later, maybe with one bathroom break, but eight and a half hours later being refreshed and ready to face the day. I'm jealous. I'm jealous. After having my second kid, I'm just a lighter sleeper now than I was when I was younger.

I'm guaranteed to wake up at least once or twice. Have you adapted to that? than I was when I was younger. You know, I'm guaranteed to wake up at least once or twice. Have you adapted to that? I mean, do you? Yeah, I just have to spend more time in bed now to get enough. You know, the glory days were when I was 26, 27. There was actually like a five-year stretch where I would go to bed probably 1130 and I would be working most, at least most weeknights, um, up really until I'm getting ready for bed. Right. So that's a computer screen that's mentally, you know, usually I'm

writing or doing something that requires thinking. It's not just rotely processing information or something like clicking buttons, you know what I mean? And, uh, go to bed, fall asleep, you know, five, blackout unconscious for six and a half, maybe seven hours, wake up before my alarm, and that's it. And rarely have any other experience. Now, I'm going to wake up, and I'm probably is it seems to be related to stress, but it wasn't obvious to me because it's I don't feel stressed out. But what I what I notice is if my aggravation levels generally are just too high, it messes with my sleep. And so that is in connection with it's always in connection, almost always with work stuff. And so that's just made it clear to me that there are things that I need to, for as well

as the businesses are doing, there are some things I need to change about how the businesses are working and my role in some of them. I'm in the weeds a bit too much with certain things. And so some, we have to make some, some key hires and, uh, I suspect on the other end of that, then again, aggravation levels will be lower and sleep gets better. And when I was younger, there wasn't, there weren't as many moving parts, everything was smaller and everything was new. And, um, you know, I think I have a pretty high pain tolerance in general but you can only take so much but anyway i don't want to hijack the conversation no no that's cool that's completely fine i mean i think um i'm one of your podcasts i think you mentioned that you try and

sneak in your power now wherever you can if you can yeah i just you know it, these days, it has gotten even harder to do that because I'm in a rental property. I'm building a house, but it's going to be a year and a half from now until we're in it. And this rental house is, I don't know the square footage. It's not very big, but it's made out of like cardboard and tile. So I'm exaggerating, but the acoustics, the acoustics for, for echoing are really good in this house. Right. And I have two kids. So really the only way to make that work is if I have a window where no one is going to be here for 30 to 45 minutes, but then that also has to jive with my schedule and what do I have to do for the day? You know, so, uh, it, it, I would say I, I don't

get the nap in more often than I do, but for, for people listening, napping is a great strategy for, uh, improving your, your health and your wellbeing. Umbeing when you are not sleeping maybe as well as you would like to or getting as much sleep as you'd like to. Ideally, we would have, Jay, your experience. We would all sleep like that. But in the cases where that is not possible or it just doesn't happen, a nap, even if it's just 30 or 45 minutes, it can make a big difference. If you can just fall into light sleep for what might actually only be 15 to 25 minutes of actual light sleep, that can take you from feeling lethargic to fresh enough to carry on the rest of the day. fresh enough to carry on the rest of the day?

I don't think I've had the need to take a power nap in recent weeks. Yeah, which is great. I mean, that's where you want to be. That could easily change though. One bad day at the office and who knows, what if I miss the workout? But I have started to cut back. I've drastically cut back on the amount of caffeine I drink as well. I probably have about two coffees a day. I start the day off with a long black coffee, and I might have one early afternoon, and then that's it. I was drinking Vita. I was probably using it as a crutch as well, and I was really strung out,

which conversely is making me even more strung out. But anyway, we are where we are. So where was I? So Ignite brought me up into – so you're you're back in the gym and now you're making progress again and that's right you're cardio in and you're sleeping better i'm seeing some great results in the gym um the weight keeps dropping off and i think it's in january where i don't compel to reach out to you because I felt like you know I owed you some thanks for you know sort of being there for support in the when you didn't know each other at

all but listen to your voice and listen to the people you're speaking to some weird and wonderful people with some varied backgrounds and wonderful stories to tell and some great wisdom as well really really helps so yeah i've got in touch with you uh you responded which is fantastic and at this point i'm really into the i'm part of you know i'm in the ecosystem i've got bls i just downloaded the muscle life since it came out uh bought a copy of the shredded chef i'm buying legion uh products supplements whenever i can um shipping and that you know it's all a bit crazy the way we're shipping we're working on that by the way what we should be able to get up this year um assuming i suppose that supply chains don't get significantly

worse like if they just stay everything's messed up if it stays about this messed up for the rest of the year it does look like we can get amazon uk set up and then use that as a hub also for fulfilling website orders that that does look positive currently that's fantastic i just ordered a bunch of stuff and it might turn up next week or it might turn up next month i know i know but it's got the order in there. And I'll be a kid on Christmas season as it rocks up. But yes, I thought, right, I might as well go all in.

Really see how far I can take this and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. So let's go with elite coaching. I've heard you talk about it and at the beginning of uh some of your podcasts um i've seen it mentioned on your site i thought why not in the past i've thought twice about uh spending i don't know x amount of money on a new laptop

which wouldn't you know in a few months to be out today what what's the difference in spending investing a little bit of money on my on my health and well-being that's going to set me up um you know i'll take lessons away from this coaching it's going to set me up for life um that knowledge is not going to disappear the day i kiss goodbye to ryan my coach i'll carry that forward so yeah that's where i am at the moment I am now at the point last I had a weigh-in last Saturday I think I've done some fasted cardio hadn't had a great deal to eat on the Friday just because I wasn't that active so I didn't feel that hungry um and I was at 79 kilos so that's officially 51 pounds lost, which felt like a great round number.

And I'm now starting to see, I'm seeing definition on my shoulders, my arms, slight hints of abdominals, not quite there yet, but my withings say I'm 18%. The calipers I bought on Ryan's advice put me at 14.

Say I'm somewhere in the middle i think you know next three months i'm gonna follow the meal plan to a t i mean today i'm i mean i'm very anal about weighing my food if i'm given instructions i will follow them um i'm 1913 calories is my balance for the day i'm bang on the calorie bang on the macros. So I'm really enjoying this. I like science. I like process. And this is what it brings to my life, something that I thought had been lacking over the last couple of years. So this kind of gives me an element of control. It's a great exercise for being able to eat well, let's say intuitively off of a plan or maybe not off of a plan, but where, okay, you're not going to weigh things anymore.

So that can work well for maintenance, for example, and you'll probably move to that at some point where naturally you're going to be familiar enough with the foods that you like to eat, where you just know what portions should look like. And you also know that, all right, if you accidentally overeat for a couple of days, it's not a big deal. Then you could just eat a bit less for a couple of days or not. Just, you know, you've experienced firsthand what it takes to really gain a lot of weight to, you know, you really have to eat a lot of food for a long time and do very little movement. So you know firsthand that you don't have to worry about, oh, you ate a couple hundred calories more than you wanted to one day.

No big deal. In the grand scheme of things, it's nothing. It really isn't. And as you say, you can just make up for it by and i don't want to get into the whole sort of t-book accounting and debit credit of calories where you think okay i'm going to earn those calories and by binging today i'm going to binge today and then earn it by stuff or like purge that yeah right yeah exactly that's that's that's bad cool but like you say it's i'm not going to self-immolate in the front garden in front of all the neighbours just because I had an extra ounce of chicken breast or some extra beans or whatever, you know, or I doubled up on the protein bars because I felt I needed to.

There are days when I feel quite hungry, but that's probably, they normally coincide on the days where I've lifted quite heavy. And I've tried to hit a PB on a 5K. And I've just been busy as well. So, you know, my active calories throughout the day are a lot higher. And I'm not going to starve myself just for the sake of an extra couple of hundred calories. If I feel like I need a bit more chicken on my plate, I will do it um it's not going to do any harm it'll do me good um but what i like about the meal planners that you've got uh at lesion are they they listen to you they don't just um hit you with something and i've seen meal plans that people you can download off the internet

um i've used a couple as well from the friends who've given me so-called trainers and you can tell they're copy and paste jobs and you know they are because they've um they've got stuff in there that you've told me you can't eat you know um okay that's that's that's great thanks for putting in the time and effort but your guys they it's almost like a an interview process they get to know you and they want to know what makes you tick. What do you like? What do you wake up and look forward to in the morning? What do you kind of crave in the afternoon? What do you like to sit down on for a long day or a heavy session in the gym? Where do you like to buy from?

I mean, they take it to the next level. You know, what's the supermarket near you? They try and make it easy so you don't have to go out of your way to get something. And then they sort of give you a first draft it's not a fate to complete when it ends up in your inbox it's what do you think does this work give us some feedback and they seem to thrive on it uh and there's a couple of iterations of it but you know what they send to you is about 95 percent there it was like wow you read my mind this is like what my ideal day would be this is how i like

to start my day this is the kind of stuff i crave at lunchtime this is what i want for a snack and it's my ideal dinner and i i guess it kind of made it easy for them as well when i when i spoke to the cody who were sort of on the sort of discovery call he sort of laughed and said to me i like chicken breasts um i could eat it all the time i love broccoli i love brown rice i love tilapia uh i love green beans and asparagus and he's like well the meal planners are gonna have a field day they're gonna love for you because you're not one of those fussy eater chaps um if anything they're going to struggle to think of something that's going to be creative because i am quite vanilla um i'm quite happy i mean that's all i've eaten this for the last three months

it's chicken breast broccoli brown rice asparagus i love asparagus can't get enough of that stuff um the old protein bar a good isolate um oats yogurt eggs yeah it's all the stuff that any a good diet should have. And I'm very much the same way. I mean, I can eat the same stuff. I've been doing it. I've been eating the same stuff essentially every day for – it's been years now. I make little changes here and there.

Eventually, I get tired of the vegetable slop dinner the way I was making it. And so, I change the sauces. And now, I'm probably on to the next vegetable slop for two years and I like it every day. So I think, um, it's, it's worth saying that, you know, there are, there are things that are worth maximizing and there are worth, and there are things that are, that, that are worth satisficing, right? And there's a big difference there where when you're maximizing, you're trying to find the best possible. And, difference there where when you're maximizing you're trying to find the best possible and um that mindset is is useful if we're talking about maybe who you should marry um now i think absolutes are unattainable but that mindset makes sense it's probably not smart to have a

satisficers like good enough whatever kind of mindset for talking about who do i marry who do i go into business with what should my career be right where do i live yeah right yeah but with something like food i'm very much a satisficer where so long as i reach good enough and good enough means and and like you we and everyone listening probably or most people listening we do have actually a fairly high standard good enough means we have to enjoy every meal uh every day and maybe there's the occasional time where we don't enjoy that food as much as another time just like there are the occasional workouts that aren't that great we always feel great, but going through them sometimes feels like a bit of a bear. And that's fine. But generally speaking, the standard is we should eat the foods that we like every meal, every day.

We should be looking forward to our meals and we should feel satisfied after every meal. And so long as I hit that, I don't care to try to find out how much more satisfaction could I get. Some people are more into it. I'm just not like that's enough for me. And once, once I'm consistently below that standard, once the vegetable slop, I really am not looking forward to it anymore. And I'm just forcing myself to eat it. Okay. Now it's time to change something about it, to bring it back up. okay, now it's time to change something about it to bring it back up. But I don't care to try to explore the boundaries of how much satisfaction can I possibly get from food while hitting my calories and macros. It just doesn't. If I had a personal chef, then I would be more interested in it. I would make it his project.

I just don't have the time to want to give to that. Yeah, just give me just on the list of the sort of macro yeah and here are all the foods i might like to eat pretty much anything so so wow me you know what i mean yeah sure but this leads me on to why i um i think you're doing yourself a bit of a disservice because the shredded chef is an amazing cookbook it really is um my girlfriend she's a fussy eater uh and she's made a bunch of stuff from there already um it's full of flavor takes what you know i'm never going to get sported chicken it's a very versatile meat uh for what you get the bang for buck in terms of calories versus protein it's perfect

it's always perfect um and you and you can prepare it in so many different ways. Exactly, right? And I can't wait for the summer to kick in because I'll be outdoors grilling most of the time. I'll be eating outdoors. But the shredded chef shows that you can just take some pretty humble ingredients and turn them into very nutritious meals

that are packed full of flavor for very little effort as well. The other thing that really surprised me, there's so many cookbooks in there. So the methodology, you need to give up half a day and probably shop in some very exotic supermarkets to get what you need. And have a bunch of stuff left over that unless you're going to make that meal multiple times, you're like, all right, what do I do now with half of these leftover ingredients? Exactly. that meal multiple times you're like all right what do i do now with half of these leftover ingredients exactly i mean i think it must have a great cookbook i'm i i haven't used a cookbook as often as i have used yours and i've got too many i love cooking but i probably in the past you pick out a couple of recipes out of this book you probably made 30 quid for and then it's on the shelf along with the rest. But yours is constantly being picked up.

My girlfriend uses it to prep her lunch. So we're big fans of the muscle meatballs. We really love those. I like the meatloaf a lot too. That was a fun project to work on. But I worked with a professional chef. I had parameters and had to explain, here are the types of recipes that we need. And it's exactly what you're saying. Like, we need to have a lot of protein in a lot of them. We need the carbs. And a lot of the ideal

recipes are going to include some protein. They are going to be maybe moderate in carbs and lower in fat. Now, we don't have to go low fat. We don't want to sacrifice all flavor, but that is going to be ideal, I know, for most of the people like us who are wanting to eat a relatively higher carb diet for our training. And of course, we need to eat enough protein. We need to make it tasty. And this point of ingredients, I wanted to make sure that none of the recipes require too many ingredients or cooking ability, because there are a lot of cookbooks that are for people who are good at cooking. And if you are not good at cooking, you're going to struggle. You're going to spend a lot of time, maybe a fair amount of money and then end up with something that isn't even that good that's annoying exactly that's the other thing that's very good about nutrition

it's accessible uh as you say um you don't need to have a lot of cooking experience um and i love the fact the first couple of chapters is it's the basics of cooking you know how to sharpen a knife and stuff like that so any any dunce could pick it up uh i never have cooked a single dish boiled an egg before but well i haven't read the first couple of chapters you can't prime and you're able to work your way through it um so yeah fantastic uh Fantastic bunch of recipes, very accessible. It's my go-to, it really is. And I love it. I need to do a follow-up. I want to, I just, there are so many things that I want to do. If I didn't have to sleep, my life would be more exciting. Hey there, if you are hearing this, you are still listening, which is awesome. Thank you.

And if you are enjoying this podcast, or if you just like my podcast in general, and you are getting at least something out of it, would you mind sharing it with a friend or a loved one or a not so loved one even who might want to learn something new. Word of mouth helps really bigly in growing the show. So if you think of someone who might like this episode or another one, please do tell them about it. But you always seem to have various drafts of various books on the go. I know. So I have,

I have new fourth editions coming. All of my work is done on these projects, um, for bigger, leaner, stronger, and thinner, leaner, stronger, which basically were rewrites overhauls. The fundamentals are not changing of course, but the, the organization has changed. I think it's more user-friendly, um, especially for people who want to get into action as soon as possible, want to start doing this stuff as quickly as they can. And so that's coming. Let's say BLS will be out, at least the digitals, in the next month or two. And then hard copies, the order will be placed in the next month or two.

But lead times are absurd right now. It's like three or four month lead times so it'll take that long to get the new books out and then the women's book thinner leaner stronger digitals will be probably out in the next two to three months and that's that's when i'll be able to place hard copies and then i'm also working on a book that it's going to be a devotional is the idea so so take um daily stoic is a good example of right so these books where you read one uh essay per day is kind of the idea right for a year um but do it for fitness and do it i would say my way and my and so like half of the essays are going to be educational half of the essays are going to be educational. Half of the essays are going to

be inspirational and I'm having fun with it. I think, I mean, the format is very popular and nobody has done it successfully that I know of in the fitness space. It's been done successfully in many other genres, but not in fitness. And I think I can do a good job with it. And so that's what I'm working on right now. Maybe after that, it'll be a cookbook. What stage is this now? Um, I have, let's see, I have about half of the essays, first drafts done for about half of the essays. And I think that I can get the other half done first drafts by summer. By sometime in summer, I think I can have first drafts done. Then I'll probably need a month or two to go through the editorial process. probably just myself. I'm not sure I'll be able to get like final edited, a final edited manuscript done in that time.

But I think I'll a month or two of just me working with it. And then I'll be happy, happy enough with it to give it to the editor I work with. And and then she'll probably need a month or two to go through it. And so all in, I will be happy if I can release it in the first quarter of next year. If that's like the official release, I'll be happy with that. I think that's doable. It gives me some flexibility because there are a lot of things that I kind of have to do that are, this is like one of those important projects, but it's not as urgent as some of the Legion stuff I'm involved in and other stuff, you know? You genuinely help a lot of people.

I'm a great believer in power of positive messaging and reading something every day. Agreed. That's really interesting. positive messaging and reading something every day. Agreed. I mean, you mentioned it in this interview that you had said that you had started with, you were going out, going for a walk, you were listening to podcasts, and you were doing a little bit of reading every day. Yeah, absolutely. And it was something for myself, something that was really good for my soul. Whilst I was doing something that was good for me physically as well.

And the great thing about listening to your podcast and especially the chunky ones which go on for like an hour sometimes an hour and a half and particularly when they're with people you you know in this sort of back and forth i think mark reffenthal is one of my favorite i'd love to meet him over a beer one day um but um that'll be a really interesting point. But it just, it really passes the time. If right now I've popped up six and a half K and I'm out in the country, it's getting fresher and I feel so de-stressed. So I think that book would be fantastic.

There are a few friends of mine who could really do something like that. I've already whispered in their ear about getting hold of a copy of Muscle for Life. I don't know what feedback you've had on that today, but I'm reading it now. And then next up, Ryan's told me to pick up a copy of Beyond When You Lean Stronger.

Yeah, that'd be good. Start reading off of that. But Muscle for Life is written in such a fantastic way. It's a great book. You can tell you put a lot of time, heart and soul into that. It'll be interesting to know what kind of feedback you've had to date. Yeah, yeah. Thank you.

Thank you so far. The feedback has been great overall. I mean, there are always detractors and sometimes people bring up valid points. I've always been not only open to constructive criticism, but actively interested in it. I mean, I used to. You can't reply. I think Amazon got rid of the commenting feature on reviews some time ago. But I used to not only read.

Yeah, I think it just turned into too much of a shit show. And they determined that this isn't adding anything to their uh objectives and and you know it's not constructive in many in many cases it turned into like twitter spats almost where people were just arguing about things right and uh but but i used to not only read every review but also reply to every review and and, and I still regularly review, uh, negative reviews. One stars are usually not very helpful. Sometimes they're even just kind of random, like black and white, you know, someone's very set minded. They haven't really opened their mind to critical thinking or new ideas. Yeah. Which means that this person's gone into that already hating it.

Or, or, or they just, just one thing that triggers them and that's why they gave, you know, it might be something kind of, exactly. It could be something kind of silly, like, Oh, the fact that I even talk about calories in calories out and they don't,

they don't believe in that. And that's the one star review. Okay, fine, whatever. However, there, there are often little nuggets in two starstar reviews, three-star reviews.

And from the beginning, I've been very interested in that because that has given me a lot of, those reviews have given me a lot of good ideas for how to improve the books. And so, as I go through these iterations, I would say maybe not half, but somewhere between 25 and 50% of the changes that I make the, just the notes that I end up making, which once those notes get long enough, then it's time to start the process of the next edition. I would say at least a quarter of them come from people's feedback and and it's via reviews and via emails mostly and and so with in the case of muscle for life there are some people are like oh this is this is just just read bigger than you're stronger instead okay I understand that but that they didn't quite understand who I was writing this

book for and it's a different audience. And the programs are totally different. If you look at the programs, like in Muscle for Life, the advanced program is kind of like Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, Light. It's not as difficult. It's not as challenging as Bigger, Leaner. And that's the advanced program, right? So if you have somebody who, let's say, regardless of age, I mean, you can relate to this, right? So, think back to when you were very overweight and you were not doing well, to jump right into BLS is a bit much. If I were training you personally, I wouldn't start you there. I wouldn't say, oh yeah, we're just going to go do some heavy squats and deadlifts. I would start you with

more or less what you did. I would say, let's get on some walks and let's clean up the diet a little bit. And then if we're incorporating resistance training, let's say it was the first time that you've ever done that. You could get in the gym and follow bigger, leaner, stronger. You're going to have to modify it a little bit here and there. You could do that, but it is, I think it's a bit of a steep learning curve, so to speak, and steep difficulty curve. Why not? Why not make it a little bit easier and more enjoyable by starting with, for talking about resistance training, why don't we start with some body weight stuff and maybe add some bands and then maybe within a month or two, you've already mastered that. Okay, great.

Now let's, let's move over to some dumbbells. Maybe it's time to get in the gym, but let's, let's now incorporate some dumbbell exercises and some machines. Okay, great. You've already mastered that. Okay, great. Now let's move over to some dumbbells. Maybe it's time to get in the gym, but let's now incorporate some dumbbell exercises and some machines. Okay, great. You've done a couple of months of that. Now we're ready to squat and deadlift and bench press. You know what I mean? So there have been some comments along those lines, and I understand those comments. those lines and I understand those comments, but the people I'm, I'm excited to, to see the feedback from people who the book is intended for. Um, and, and so I'm getting a lot of great feedback, especially on the, on the programs where people were either intimidated by bigger

leaner, stronger or thinner leaner, stronger, or we're not able to do it for one reason or another. Sometimes physical limitations like past injuries, for example, sometimes physical limitations because of a combination of age and body composition. So take somebody who's 55 years old and they have 80 pounds to lose to get to a let's say a healthy body comp and they have a lot of joint pain okay you really are not gonna tell them to just dead yeah exactly i mean you you could teach them how to do it safely if you were there working with them but i still would question that programming like we don need, we don't need to start there. Let's work our, let's work our way toward that. Right. And, uh, so, so yeah, I'm excited to, I'm actually putting together a quiz to help that people can take to help them find the book and the program

that's for them because now people are understandably people will ask me, Hey, should I do your bigger, leaner, stronger? Should I do do your bigger leaner stronger should i do your thinner leaner stronger sometimes guys are even like i don't want to get too big should i be doing thinner leaner i want to be thin either it's the same right right right but i understand though because they're just they're just um looking at it from from the outside and they don't know you know what i mean they're they're just should i be doing beyond bigger than you're starting now you have this muscle for life and so i I have a quiz that, um, it should be up in the next week or two that, uh, similar to like the supplement quiz on the website where it asks you

different questions. And then there's, there, there's, you know, some different logic built in, in terms of, um, um, okay. Based on your answers, here's what I recommend. I recommend bigger than you're stronger. Here's why. Well, I recommend muscle for life. Here's why. And I think that that'll be helpful because then I can make that just like a standard promotional blurb that can kind of get worked

into all the communication channels. So people can clearly know like which is for them and why. Yeah, I think that's a great idea um i think you raised you made a really good point just taking a hopping back a couple of steps just on where to begin uh and bodyweight exercises so before i sort of um i spent this first couple of months last year moving doing a bit of a couch to 5k but no resistance training so before i got into the gym i was committed to gym membership um i just started up some body weight stuff and it's actually you know a push-up executing with the right form is actually bloody difficult um same with body weight squats um with the right form, they're actually quite hard.

And that's what I did, was just do some bodyweight stuff indoors, just by myself, just to wake everything up a bit. And just to give myself the confidence as well of going back into a gym. Because it can be quite intimidating after a long layup. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. How was that process? Because you probably experienced it twice it sounds like when you so the first time around and then and then um the second time around as well so the first time around i i just um i ignored everyone around me um it was really that simple uh i just uh i didn't care what people were thinking or what they were saying, because the reality

is no one's looking at you. No one gives a shit. They're too busy sweating their nuts off on a bench press. And looking at themselves. Yeah, exactly, right? So I didn't pay any attention to anyone. I mean, if anybody wants to test that out, it's hard to get people's attention if you try. Like, if you wanted them to notice you.

Like you need a spot. Exactly. Yeah, it's hard. No one's looking at you. So that's how it's happened at the first time around and i did have a friend that would accompany me to the gym and then i had this chap who sort of did some personal training with me so that that helped a lot the second time around um i was nervous about form rather than uh appearing um like i didn't know what I was doing. Because I knew the fundamentals of pushing weights around.

And I'd had good form drummed into me. One of my friends was a professional bodybuilder, competed and won a few titles. And he was, when he came to form, he was a complete Nazi. So I had some of that stuff drummed into me, but I was still worried about looking like a bit clumsy, a bit gangly, a bit rusty. So again, I think the first few times i went in when i knew it was going to be fairly quiet

um so i could avoid the crowd but then i just um again just put on a muscle life uh podcast and that was takes your mind off stuff when you got something that you focused on uh but just remembered why i was there and that's the mantra i keep i still i still use that remember why you're doing this remember why you're doing this remember why you're doing this and very very um conscious of form um one of the things i'm really important this week weekend is filming myself it's not something i've done yet i always felt a bit weird about it but i have to do it now for the coach so you know what he says goes um so people ask me about that because i i video myself for social media and then it's also nice for me to check my form yeah and and i'll still notice things

sometimes if it's a fourth set and it's the final rep or two, you know, it can be hard to maintain proper form on a, on a heavy squat, for example. And people will ask me though, if I, if I feel embarrassed or self-conscious about videoing. And at first when I started doing it, it was a little bit, felt a little bit awkward because I hadn't, I hadn't done it before, but I think, I think there's value actually in, in doing things and being willing to put yourself in that, I mean, to use a trendy term, a vulnerable position where you do feel a little bit awkward and where people might look at you a little bit funny, if nothing else, I think it's good for staying humble. Absolutely. And I've, you know, I've noticed quite a few people doing it now. I clock a lot of people doing that.

It's become, it's not as weird as it was. And I think, as you say, you can use it. It's a tool to improve yourself. You know, progressive overload, sorry, progression comes in many different forms. And I think just analyzing yourself in a physical form i think there's a lot to be said for that um so it's great i've got ryan now on my back i think some of those videos some of those videos and i will um so i i yes to answer the original question i just remember i just remembered why i was there, remembered my form,

and just focused on some positive messaging whilst I was doing my workout in the shape of your podcast. And just tell myself, well, everyone else probably feels as dumb as I do. I'm sure they've got their own insecurities. I know for a fact I go in and I suck my stomach in, even though I don't need to anymore, but I'm sure everyone else does, all men do, and all women are conscious of their backsides. My girlfriend is.

So everyone's in there because they're insecure about something, whether it's their physical health or the way they look, or it could be stress. They're really stressed out with life, and they use the gym as a way of relieving some of that anxiety. So everyone's there for the same reason, is to be better in some way. And I think that's a great leveler. It really is. And I find that most people that I think of the gym I go to now and gyms I've gone to in the past, the people who I have ended up engaging with are

almost always friendlier than maybe they look or than you, you know, than, than the impression that you get. Uh, and, and so I remind myself of that too. I mean, again, I'm not one to take things personally um if if somebody is is uh is not interested in in talking to me or is even rude it doesn't bother me personally but um it's i know i know it's just it's it's helpful for especially for people who are kind of new and feel a little bit out of place yeah and and i've heard this particularly from women when they're going over to the weightlifting section and it's a bunch of sweaty tattooed dudes grunting and groaning and they don't look very friendly um when they're bench pressing and uh even when they're in between sets uh but but in my experience most people even some of the gnarlier looking dudes are actually quite friendly.

Yeah. Everyone's a human at the end of the day. I'm sure that just like in any, in any place that there's the odd idiot or asshole, but that's, you know, you get that if you went into the local pub or in an office, you know, God knows I've seen my face show off this assholes in my life. But no, so I, I i i just kept reminding you those few things and before i knew it within a what my first week um it became it's just second nature you know i i get angsty if i wasn't walking over to the gym or maybe making time for a workout i do encourage anyone out there that's probably nervous about setting foot in a gym for the first time just remember you only got to do it once get it out of the way but after that it really is it's enjoyable you never regret going to the gym ever I've never come home I thought I wish I hadn't gone today it's the opposite I now I feel

I'm upset if I don't have time in my diary um during the day because i like sneaking out to do a quick half an hour or 40 minutes um i get upset um but you just got to take that leap of faith once and you wouldn't but you know you you'll thank yourself your future you will thank you you know thankfully taking that making that decision um only good things will come of it. I'm living proof of this. If it wasn't for the gym and for moving and nutritious food, there's no guarantee I'd be here now because I could have suffered another relapse, my mental state. I wanted to ask you about that. Could you talk a bit about that in particular? so you're in a pretty dark place yeah um before you got back um on on the wagon so to speak and how has your your mental health been as you have improved your physical

health uh like night and day i think i mean my girlfriend is that everyone that's close to me and cares about me uh being shocked by not just the physical transformation but just my general well-being the way i come across the way i uh i talk i act i'm smiling i'm laughing at things you know i'm finding humor in everything around me i never you know like i used to back in the day um i've got a very stupid sense of humor quite a dark one as well um and i've you know i've found that i've rediscovered it uh but i i feel like i've got to regain control of my life in the way i think i know if i have a dark moment or if i feel aggravated or anxious i know it's just it's fleeting it really is it's fleeting it's like bad weather it all will pass you just got to let it pass um you know it never rains forever um and i just um i remember that i don't dwell on that on that on that moment i i remember what

was really cool uh before i felt like that and what's going to be really cool when this cloud passes um it's interesting that if you would have i'm sure you probably did try to do that previously right that like my point is what it sounds like is it's not like you discovered some unique uh coping strategy so to speak it's that that there you have changed uh in a in some fundamental ways that you respond differently to uh the the rough patches now than you did previously am i yeah yeah absolutely i think um like it probably wouldn't have been helpful previously if somebody said hey why don't you just remember? So let's say you're really not feeling good. Why don't you just remember?

Yeah, exactly. It's basically like saying, why don't you just cheer up, dude? It'll be okay. Yeah, yeah, it'll be fine. No, I think, no, you're right. And that's a very valid point. There have been a few factors as well that probably contributed to this additional strength I have. I don't really want to simplify it too much but it is down to nutrition um you are what you eat and i noticed that within a week of stop stopping eating

shit and drinking too much or drinking too i don't i don't drink really now at all um i just don't see the point in it it doesn't add any value to my life. And certainly doesn't make my journey with Ryan any easier. So I just don't bother with it. But it was as simple as, so yeah, without the risk of simplifying it, nutrition and exercise. We all know the science behind science and the pill-based chemicals, right? We all know the science behind science and the chemicals, right? It's just a lot easier to use that as a lever, right?

It is, because anyone can go for a walk. I think it was tough during lockdown because the gyms were open, and I did try to join a gym last year just for that brief moment when the UK came out of lockdown, only for it to go back into lockdown. I took up running. I got shin splints at the start of last year and it felt like i'd been kneecapped uh that knocked me for six as well um so now i i i do i i have a have a plan on following you know i'm following the workout out and i'm following this um this this this program that i'm on now with brian and yourselves um but i i'm very conscious about what i what i eat because i know what having effects on me physically if i go out and eat domino's pizza which would taste great you probably won't actually it tastes like shit but um i know what it would do to me the next day

i know i'll feel crap i'll feel lethargic my guts will be playing the drums all day um and I'll just literally I'll have grease coming out of my pores so it's the same thing with your mental right whatever you eat will affect your mental it's clear as you know like they that your hormones will be affected by what you eat so now I'm I've really um embraced the science behind I guess I wasn't. I wasn't really much of an ayurvedic eater. Mum and dad swear by it. They're Indians. It's kind of in their genes. But now I really look at what I'm eating and the medicinal effects it will have on me.

And I know that's when I really respect your product range, just because it's all natural. It's all science-backed um whereas before no i didn't i didn't care about what i was eating even when i was in the gym a couple of two three years ago i got in really good shape i'd be really good for two or three days of the week um i even i had a muscle for life meal plan back then as well i sent a copy i dug it out from the archives to john to ryan so he could laugh at it but uh just in terms of how um how similar it is to the one i'm on now um but i still for the other sort of four days of the week i still went out at the weekend

got loaded on my mates came home filthy kebab and then i thought okay i've blown friday night i might as well just piss saturday and sunday away as well but i'll start again on monday and that's the life i was living uh now i'm not like that and i don't see the point in wasting my weekend as well wasting the time and the effort and care i'll put into myself for the sake of some uh frivolity and you know food and alcohol um because i know it's just i'm gonna feel like shit on monday i really will and it's gonna it's not the best way to start your week um and i'll go to sleep properly so there's so many reasons why i shouldn't be doing all the things i used to do so that's the difference like i care about

what i put in my body and i care about how much I move every day. I do that for myself because no one else cares what I eat. It's not going to affect them. No one cares if I hit a PB in the gym tomorrow, but I will. And I know I've done something better and I've beaten the same J that was walking you up last week. And that's what it's about. It's me versus me. And I just want to do something good for myself every every single day no matter how big or small it is and and try and make people around me happy by being a happier

person uh by being good to myself by proxy i'll be good to others uh it's a good way to live your life i love it i love it and i agree on on on all fronts. The weekend point in particular, that's like in the game of fitness, that's one of the bosses that you have to beat. Many people are still stuck on that level, so to speak. who they just didn't understand who were doing that. And because they, it was in many cases, just a lack of education. They didn't understand energy balance, for example. They didn't understand that the body processes carbs and fats and proteins differently. And they didn't understand how adding alcohol

accelerates fat storage, right? And so they didn't understand why they were not losing weight when they were following a decent meal plan, maybe decently throughout the week, and then drastically overeating and over drinking on the weekends. So being able to understand that, that's the first step. And then for many people, just understanding it was enough to help them start overcoming the habits. And maybe it wasn't getting rid of it all right away. For some people, it was toning it down. And then once they had toned it down for a couple of weeks, it was doing it now maybe just on one day instead of two or three days. And then eventually they, they beat the boss like,

like you have. And then they're like, you know, I actually don't need to do this anymore. No, there's no value added at all. It doesn't bring me any, you know,

it's going to bring, it's going to make my life better in any way whatsoever. But me sticking to a healthy diet and a good exercise regime is going to pay me peak dividends as I grow up, as I grow older, I'm going to be me Pete Divens as I grow up, as I grow older, I'm going to be mid, I'm going to be 45 this, this, this summer, you know, bits will start falling off in a few years from now. And I want to try and keep hold of as many of my parts as I can.

And the way to do that, the way to mitigate. I wouldn't have guessed. You don't look, you don't look 45. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I moisturize every day. I drink three liters of water. But the way to mitigate against the demons of age, the way to do that is by looking after yourself now. And again, 10 years from now, I'll thank myself for it. I'm not going to thank myself 10 years from now for basically spending my mid-40s just pissing my money off the wall, going to parties, going on, you know, fancy fancy holidays, buying nice plays. But I will thank myself for what I'm doing to my, you know,

for myself now. And this is a long thing, right? It's not like what I did in the past where I'm going to throw myself into it for three or four months, looking for the summer. And then if something shiny comes along, my attention will be this way like i did in the past with a new job and all the traveling and so forth this is now going to be a way of life for me i know i've done it in the past but only for short periods of time uh so i know i'm capable of it but now it's about the commitment and really really challenging myself to to make this me um and i'm very excited

by it slightly nervous because i i don't want to let the ryan down i mean one of the reasons why i went for the coaching is i was gonna say that's what that's the accountability right so you might as well use it to your advantage that's's another lever that helps. Exactly, right. I'm enjoying sort of putting my stats down into the app. You'll read it, you'll review it, and you'll know if I bothered or not on that given day. And I went and skipped leg day. I used to do that all the time in the bus.

Oh, God, no. Find any reason. Oh, it's a bit cloudy out there. I'll probably stay indoors and put the kettle on. That's better than going to the gym and doing some squats but you know i had to do my first leg day under iron today i will be sending some hate mail to him tomorrow no doubt when i can't get out of bed it'll probably be the next day it's always the day after yeah i think the day after leg day that's the worst the day after you're like oh i'm i'm a little bit sore and then it's then it's the next day when you're you're hobbling out of bed even if you don't overdo it you know it doesn't you'll you'll see as you get fitter and

you keep pushing yourself appropriately i mean i still run into this um i still get a fair amount of soreness in my lower body not so much in my upper body um maybe to the touch maybe if i were getting a massage there'd be some soreness but yeah the lower body you know it's just such a big these are big muscles a lot of muscles moving heavy loads and just slight increases in volume or intensity uh can in me at least, it can still trigger. It's not the level of soreness that I used to experience when I was doing wild stuff, when I didn't really know what I was doing, like doing 10 by 10s, for example, on squats where I couldn't sit down on a toilet. I would have to get over to the toilet and just fall that's it and then

getting off of the toilet required uh yeah my my arms you know what i mean it's not quite that bad but i still i think it fairly sore from from a few exercises the squat the deadlift if i if i just make a little bit of progress yeah that's it's normal what would you advise me to say i think you know me socially as well so i'm not long back into the gym um yeah i'm still trying to tune into the little needles and squeaks and aches and groan groans in my body yeah so i'm i'm really nervous about tweaking something and then putting myself out of the game for a few days or a few weeks even the worst case scenario but i don't want that fear to hinder me from sort of pushing myself appropriately so at the moment i'm super nervous and i'm on high alert so slices tweak up better

put that down move on to the next exercise. How do you differentiate between the two? Is it like between like, I'm a bit rusty, just a bit of a warmup or my body's trying to tell me something? Yeah. So, so my best advice for getting back into the gym, cause what, well, a mistake that, and I've made this before, uh, when I was younger and my wife at the time, my girlfriend, so she was in Germany. We did a long distance relationship for two and a half years. We were together for a year, year and a half, and then long distance for two and a half. And then she moved over here to the States.

And so there were a couple of instances where I went over to Germany and we would just run around, have fun for three weeks. And I might do a couple of body weight workouts, maybe a couple of gym workouts here and there. But I was a little bit detrained when, when I got back and then I would go and try to do exactly what I was doing before I left. And that was a bit much. I remember, uh, ending workouts like nauseous and that, that even now, I don't know, it would take a lot of training for me to, to get to that point. Right. And, um, so like training to the point of nausea, that's, that's too much and, and then getting very, very sore. And so the, the, the simple advice is to dial your, uh, your, your intensity. So your loads dial that back and the rep range that you're going to work in

that, that if you're currently working in, if you're doing like a bigger linear, stronger approach where you're doing a lot of four to six and maybe some six to eight, you can still work in the same rep ranges, but you want to adjust the loads. So you're finishing your hard sets with, uh, on compound exercises. You should, your hard sets with on compound exercises, you should, you should feel like you have one or two good reps still in the tank. Meaning that you, if it's one good rep left, I, so currently how I like to you could call this intensity discipline. What I like to see in, in a squat, for example, is in my first set, I like to feel like I have two to three good reps left, meaning I could do two more and then I probably would fail, maybe three more and then I probably would fail. And I am fairly calibrated to that because every four months I do some AMRAPs and I push myself hard. I go close to failure. So I do

have a good sense of how many reps I actually have left in the tank. Because if you don't ever really go close to failure, sometimes you can think you only have one or two left, but if you really went for it, you actually had four or five. But regardless, my point is that maybe before you were squatting 225, let's say for six, and that was two good reps left or so, like pretty hard, pretty close to failure. And you can still squat for six, but you might have to go down to 185 or 155 to still have, let's say those two good reps left or maybe even three, right? So what you wouldn't want to do is put the 225 on the bar and squat it for six and have zero good reps left, meaning that last rep was a grinder.

And if you went for another, you're going to fail. Because then what's going to happen is even if you rest a little bit longer, you rest four minutes, let's say you probably aren't going to get six in the next, you're probably going to get five and maybe even fewer depending on where you're at. It might be four and then, you know, zero good reps left. And, and so that's how you can hurt yourself is training too hard. So again, pushing right up to that point of failure, using too much weight and pushing right up to that point of failure. Well, that makes it even more problematic, right? If we're talking about a biceps curl, okay. Um, not very dangerous, right? Like sure. We can technically, I didn't hurt my back today, but I was lazy on my standing calf raises. And so I like let tension out of my core and I was like, oh, that doesn't feel good. So like, you know, that

could have been me hurting my back on a standing calf raise. It can happen. It can happen. Right. But we are most interested in what I just described in terms of intensity discipline with the big exercises, the stuff that they're not dangerous, but if you train right up to that point of failure or, or you train literally to failure. So let's say, you know, young kids coming in the gym and they're squatting and they squat until they actually have to sit the bar down. Like they just get stuck at the bottom. Uh, the more often you do that stuff, the more likely you are to get hurt. So again, when you, as you get back into, into your training I wouldn't be concerned that you are at a higher risk of injury because you are feeling a little bit detrained or a little bit detrained.

That's definitely not the case. You just have to understand that you're going to have to work back to your previous training weights. And you want to make sure that you are calibrating your current training rate weights to your current fitness. And so you're going to have rep ranges to work in reps in reserve as it's referred to, to make sure you're working hard enough in those sets and you can err on the side of maybe a little bit too little weight as opposed to a little bit too much but you'll quickly you've done this so you'll quickly understand you might put 135 on the bench you're supposed to do six or whatever and you immediately know by rep three, like, all right, this is, this is a bit too easy. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to get six and I could probably do another six. And the problem,

the only problem with that is unfortunately research shows that we do have to get, we don't have to go to failure, but we do have to get close to muscular failure to achieve a, uh, an effective training stimulus. And that's particularly true as you become more experienced when you're brand new, you can do sets of six with six reps in reserve and get some results, but you know, you're going to, that's only going to drive so much in the weight of adaptation. There is a point where you're going to have to start training harder, training closer to failure, and then you're going to have to start doing more volume, more training to continue driving those adaptations. And so you can just use that as a guide. And if you are leaving, again, let's say set one of three or set one of four

on a bench press, you feel like you have two or three good reps left. And what you'll find is by that final set, it's probably a one to two. And if it's a zero to one, that's okay. But I, in my training and what I generally recommend is that's what I like to see that I attract my reps and reserve in my, in my training log. Um, and I like to see on the big lifts two to three, uh, maybe, or maybe even like a solid three on that first set, because I know that by the last set, that's going to be a one or two and I'm okay. Pushing a little bit harder than that here and there but that's that's my my baseline in

terms of training intensity discipline i'm just kind of making up that term i don't think that's really a term but that's the concept so hopefully that's that's helpful absolutely absolutely and i'll say one other thing with your accessories it's okay what i like to do is it's okay to train a little bit closer to failure even go to absolute failure on a lot of accessory exercises not all sets but take a biceps curl right i'm okay with um the the let's say set one of four that that's how i'm training right now right i'm okay on a biceps curl if i feel like i have maybe two good reps left, even a, even a one to two, um, because that might be a zero or a zero to one on that final rep. I'm thinking about the biceps curls that I

did yesterday. So my fourth set was basically right up to the point of failure. Like I had, I had to even like move my torso a little bit to finish the rep, which is basically, I mean, once your form breaks down, that means that you can't really do it correctly anymore. Right. So I'm okay with that on certain accessory exercises, because I know that there's no risk really of getting hurt because I, um, strained hard on a biceps curl or I strained hard on a triceps push down, right? There are certain accessory exercises though, where I don't like how that feels. I don't like how that feels on an overhead dumbbell press for triceps, for example. I don't like going right up to failure

on that exercise because it feels funky on my shoulders. And so you, you have to, you have to use, um, some, some common sense and you have to, you have to also kind of listen to your body, so to speak. And like you said, if something, if it feels okay to push right up to failure and it's an accessory exercise, the risk of getting hurt is very, very low and it feels fine. Then can do that um but if it does not even if it's an accessory exercise then i would say uh don't do it yeah okay cool i think that's pretty much what i've been following um i've been a bit cautious i think with the with the big three um which is fine i mean you can always you're not gonna you're not gonna regret um starting that way and then easing into correct maybe maybe a more optimal uh training intensity

exactly and and i have been quite uh probably a bit more carefree or less risk averse with as you say the accessories and remember going back to december it was my first biceps workout after a good two two two and a half years off i had the worst case of doms i was walking around like this for three days um i couldn't do anything at all i was utterly useless um but i knew they weren't they were they were just mad at me but they weren't injured um i'm a bit i'm not too worried about and this is where this is why i sort of um wanted to take up the coaching because i think there's real value to be had in someone sort of monitoring your progress and and challenging you to to try and

to see you know to read the numbers look at the data and go okay look i think you could i've seen your form i think you can go heavier. I've seen your numbers. You were telling me you're doing your final set with one to three reps in reserve. I think the next time, next week, we should go up a little bit. And I need that just, I need that someone sort of watching over me and giving me a bit of helpful advice. Left to my own devices. I mean, I will follow BLS to the T, but will I progress as quickly? I devices I mean I will follow uh BLS to the T but will I progress

as quickly I doubt it I will um if I follow the follow the advice within the book but I'm the kind of person that sometimes does need a bit of a I need the accountability and I like it as well I like the challenge I like I like the the idea the concept of reporting back to somebody and saying, look at my homework. How well have I done? Can you mark it for me? And being set new targets. And I think there's a lot to be said to that. Totally.

Yeah. And it's nice to be acknowledged by somebody who really gets it. Yeah. Who actually cares too. Because aside from maybe our family and our closest friends, most people, they don't care whether we reach our fitness goals or any goals for that matter. And some people actually would rather see us fail. Generally, seeking validation isn't a good strategy. But when you have somebody like a coach or somebody who's close to you, who you know really has your best interests in mind. And in the case of a coach, they also understand what it takes to do what you're doing. It is nice to be validated. I think that's okay. You don't have to. I think it's better to not need it and not seek validation.

But it's okay to enjoy it when it happens, I think. person that goes out looking for it but i think when you're working together with someone on a joint objective which is that this is um it's it's nice to buddy up and balance things off and and you know and also you know on the flip side have that critique as well um i'm really interested to see what he you know when he sees these videos over the weekend and see what he what he says about my form because as much as i try to be uh very good with it i'm pretty sure he'll find you know issues with it and uh i i value that as well um so i think this is um yeah i'm all for having projects in my in in your life um most of my projects in the past have been pretty shit like buying a new car um buying a bunch of tailor-made suits or Gucci loafers or whatever it is.

I need a new laptop. Do you really? No, this is, this is a project I can, I'm really genuinely proud that I've kicked off. And then I'll read the rewards for it. I love it.

I love it. Well, this has been a great talk, Jay. Thanks again. Yeah. Thanks again for doing it and keep me posted on your progress. Sounds like you're going to do great.

And if there's anything else you wanted to say before we wrap up, we can, you can get that out there or we can. Yeah. I think anyone that's listening, you know, I'm pretty sure most of your listeners are probably fairly sort of well versed with it, you know, with the pretty sure most of your listeners are probably fairly sort of well-versed with the fitness game and your work, but anyone that's like me

who are coming back from a long layoff or dipping their toes in the water, I found Mike having not trained

at all, completely cold, trust, trust the science that's laid out in his writings, listen to the podcast, just soak it all up.

I really encourage you to. Just join the cult, you know, just join the cult, right? I'm a believer. I really am. I'm going to get,

what's the life and legion tattooed on me, I think, but just, just believe in the, in the science. A lot of thoughts. That's when I know

that I've achieved cult leader status. When, when somebody shows me like my face tattooed on their body. Then I know. I'll make my first born after you. You'll be a bottle of pulse. Yeah, my ultimate ambition fulfilled.

My true ambition. What I'm really doing all of this for. You're on the right path. I guarantee it, buddy. But yeah, so anyone's listening do just just have faith and believe in the science and more importantly have faith in yourself that you can achieve some pretty wonderful things and you will surprise yourself in a very short space of time love it love it well thanks again jay this was a great interview thank you for having me

well i hope you liked this episode i I hope you found it helpful. And if you did, subscribe to the show because it makes sure that you don't miss new episodes. And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you. as much as you. And if you didn't like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email, mike at muscleforlife.com, muscleforlife.com, and let me know what I could do better or just what your thoughts are about maybe what you'd like to see me do in the future. I read everything myself. I'm always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode and I hope to hear from you soon.