Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - How Legion Coaching Helped Amy Lose 8 Pounds & 4% Body Fat In Just 90 Days

Episode Date: May 2, 2018

In this episode I interview Amy, who is 42 years old and recently completed my 90-day coaching service. She shares how she found her way to me and my work, including what she had tried previously, how things changed after she started implementing the advice in my books and articles, and how my 90-day coaching service helped her take her body to a whole new level. More specifically, she lost 8 pounds, 4% body fat, and an inch and a half off of her waist, while adding 145 pounds to all of her big lifts. As with everything, nothing ever goes exactly as planned, and learning to adjust and adapt to conditions is an important part of the fitness game, which is something Amy experienced firsthand. She ran into a number of roadblocks along the way that most of us can relate to, including issues with workout and meal scheduling, hunger and cravings, dietary temptations, and more, and in our chat, Amy shares what has helped her navigate these barriers skillfully and prevent them from getting in her way. So, if you like hearing motivational stories about how people have changed their bodies and lives, and if you want to pick up a few tips that may help you along in your personal journey, then this episode is for you. 6:54 - What caused your weight gain? 9:26 - How did you find our coaching program? 10:19 - What was the transition like from a low carb diet to a balanced diet? 12:33 - What was your weight and body composition when you started our coaching program? 13:30 - What was your experience with our coaching program? 20:15 - What were some obstacles you had to overcome during our coaching program? 23:37 - What were some of the differences you felt between a ketogenic diet and a balanced diet? 29:10 - Did being on a ketogenic diet affect your mood and energy levels? 30:05 - What were your results after our coaching program? 35:02 - What were people’s reaction to your transformation? Want to get my best advice on how to gain muscle and strength and lose fat faster? Sign up for my free newsletter! Click here: https://www.muscleforlife.com/signup/

The results, I thought 90 days how long it flew by. It worked better than I could have imagined. And again, my trouble areas, which were my thighs, fit better in my clothes. They look way better. They have just been positioned better. It's just I can't speak enough about the program and how amazing it was. Nå er det en av de fleste stående stående i verden. Продолжение следует... Thank you. This is where I would normally plug a sponsor to pay the bills, but I'm not big on promoting stuff that I don't personally use and believe in. So instead, I'm just going to quickly tell you about something of mine, specifically my 100% natural greens

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contact us and we will give you a full refund on the spot. All righty, that is enough shameless plugging for now, at least. Let's get to the show. Hey, Amy, thanks for taking the time to come on the show. You're welcome. It's been a great program. Happy to do it. Yeah, I mean, the time to come on the show. You're welcome. It's been a great program. Happy to do it. Yeah.

I mean, your results are pretty amazing, actually. You are in super good shape now. And you were in good shape before. It's not that you were in bad shape before, but now you're super fit now. Absolutely. I think that's what is the most amazing about this program for me. I've always been somebody who works out and thinks that they ate well. It's always those last 10 pounds and that fine-tuning of your body to get it into a detailed shape that I was never achieving in the past.

Yeah. So let's start there. So what did the past look like? What kind of exercise and diet regimens had you tried? What worked well? What didn't work well? How was it going? Sure. So I would say probably for the last 10 years, I have always worked out. I've worked out six days a week and it's gone from running to yoga to yoga sculpts, CrossFit, Shred, which is a running slash weight program, Orange Theory, which is the running rowing slash weight program. But I have been really is orange theory running. I thought it was cycling. It's running, rowing and weights. Oh, interesting. I didn't know. I thought it was primarily cycling there. You know what? There is

one or two cycles in there for people who don't like to row. I see. I see. But I'm sure there's a cycling running program out there. You want it, you can find it. And so I have been doing that for the last 10 years. And about 10 years ago, I went through this transformation with weight. I lost about 20 pounds on a super low carb diet. And when I say low, it's almost no carb. Right. Almost like ketogenic type. Pretty much. And it was something that happened in five weeks. It was super satisfying. But what happened was you get fearful that you're never going to be able to maintain that weight.

So I ended up being on this low carb diet for about 10 years and working out. Oh, wow. You know, when you're busting your butt in the gym or working out six days a week, sweating and you're drenched and you're eating very little and you're not seeing any results in terms of muscle definition or changing those body parts that are super difficult. For me, it was

my thighs and my butt. You almost start asking yourself, why am I doing this every morning, waking up at the crack of dawn if I'm not seeing any different results? And then, you know, when I started to research new programs before I found you, I started to gain weight. So where I had this low carb and it was working and it wasn't super satisfying and eating, but I was disciplined and I stuck to it. I started to gain weight back eating like that. And I'm like, something is wrong here. I'm doing something wrong. I shouldn't be eating, you know, a thousand,

1100 calories a day, working out six days a week, gaining weight. And it was frustrating. And I thought, and what do you attribute that to now knowing what you know, and having, I was under eating, I was eating wrong. Do you have like any cheat days or just in working with a lot of people that stick to very restrictive diets, inevitably there would be periods where they would kind of just melt down. Yeah, sure. I would say my cheat days involve wine, and then you typically happen on the weekend. So what would happen is I would be super great Monday through Friday, and then come Friday and Saturday I would go off the rails,

and then I would spend Monday through Friday trying to get back. Undoing the damage. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a, that's a cycle that many people go through. I've seen it many, many times where, I mean, some people it's exactly what you're talking about eating at BMR or maybe even below BMR, which is basal metabolic rate, people listening, the amount of energy that your body burns, if just to stay alive, if you were to sit there and nothing, so eating very low calorie throughout the week because the weekend is such a disaster. Yes. And I wasn't even thinking of it in that way. I mean, knowing now what I know, I know that I can adjust for a

weekend treat, but I didn't know anything about macros or about calories in calories out or TV or anything about that. I was just literally looking at the carbs. And so I was probably eating way more fat than I ever needed to be eating in such like disproportionate amounts. I had just gotten to a point where I was like, this is not rocket science. This is achievable. I see women with these bodies all over the place and they're not doing anything different than I'm doing. I just know that I have something wrong here. Yeah. So where'd you go from there? So you're like, okay, there's got to be a better way. So I reached a point where I had probably gained three, seven pounds, right? And I'm short, I'm five foot four. So seven pounds is a lot. I started doing a Google search and I said, lose fat, gain muscle. And you were the first website that popped up. So your Google search is working.

So I've had personal trainers in the past. The best thing that I found about your website were the before and afters. That was the proof in the pudding that this works. And what was great for me, too, is that there were similar women to me, like who work out, who don't have a ton of weight to lose, but are looking to make this definition in certain body parts. And it worked. And their stories were great. And as soon as I saw that, I was like, this is it. It was simple and easy for me. And I knew right away I'm the type of person that needs the coach, that needs the help. I'm the type of person that needs the coach that needs the help. If I read a book, I'll start reading, I'll fall asleep, I will skip pages, I'll try to go right to the good part, which is results or, and I won't get all of the information I need. If I'm going to do this, I've never

weight lifted in my entire life, or body built. And I said, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to need help. And if I'm going to learn to eat differently, which is going to be hard for me, I'm going to need somebody's guidance and somebody to talk to. So that's how you found your way to the coaching program. That's how I found my way to the coaching program. And I immediately signed up. It was no hesitation. I spend so much money on health and fitness every month. I had memberships at Core Power Yoga, at Orange Theory, at Zen Yoga, at Shred. And I said, take all of that combined and how much money and time I spent in the gym buying random recipes for these ketogenic diets. I said, add all that up and this is a deal.

Yeah, it makes sense. And how was it on the dietary side of things at first to move away from the super low carb to a more balanced diet? Were you afraid you might just gain a bunch of fat? Because, I mean, that's obviously – that's these days. First, it was paleo that kind of started the high-fat craze. And paleo, it seems to be a bit on the decline. I'm not sure. Like, I'd have to check Google Trends.

But keto has definitely – it seems to have kind of passed the baton to keto because now keto is on the rise. And of course, it all revolves around fat gain and fat loss. So the idea is, you know, if you eat, if you, the carbs are the enemy. And so the fewer carbs you eat, the more fat your body's going to burn and the leaner you're going to be. And of course, then vice versa, the more carbs you eat, the fatter you're going to be. And the more you're going to be like a sugar burning type. So were you concerned that you could eat what would obviously felt like a lot of carbs? I'm sure that that was that that was going to negatively impact your physique. Absolutely. So about a year prior to starting your program, I saw a personal trainer who ended up being a bust, but he convinced me for a small period of time to do a vegan diet.

So I had gone through this cycle where I kind of amped up my carbs because, as you can imagine, on a vegan diet, there's not much else to eat. I experienced poor results, right? And so I was definitely scared to try something new. However, there was a certain level of excitement to eat foods that I had given up. I mean, I had not eaten a piece of bread in 10 years. That makes me think of, was it the Bruno movie where he's like, his carb aside? Like, I haven't eaten a carb since, I think it was that movie, right? I haven't eaten a carb since 1995 or whatever.

It's right. So it's a true testament to my discipline. But at the same time, I was super excited because I was like, this is going to change my life in terms of diet. And my husband was so excited because he was so sick of having these requirements for my eating. It was just, you know, it was beyond limits. I was fearful of the workout and I was fearful of the diet, but I was like, at this point, what's to lose? I mean, I'm gaining weight. So, you know, why would I not try this? Um, after I've seen those transformations and read all of your, your articles are amazing. Thanks. Thanks. So then where'd it go from there? So you start the program and you're like, well, I'm going to give it a go. Might as well. And how did it go? And we might as, we might as well. And how did it go? And we might as well just interject here. Where did you start in terms of weight and body composition before you started the coaching program?

So I believe I was at 122 pounds, which was a couple pounds lighter than when I had weighed myself when I found your website. I think I started around 126 pounds when I went looking for your website. But I had started to do things like when I went to look, went looking for your website, but I had started to do things like, because I, you know, between having the interview and filling out the questionnaire and waiting for the program to be made, I started to read your articles and try to start incorporating some things on my own. Um, so I started at one 22 officially, and I believe I was in the 23% body fat. Okay. fat okay so again you're you're like a normal fit type of person yeah yeah with just a little added fat in areas that i didn't want yeah yeah okay so then how did it go so you you get into you start you start with the diet um how was that transition

and in the workouts obviously you transitioned away from the, it sounds like just more, more cardio than anything else. Like it sounds the majority of your time was spent doing cardio to a lot more resistance training. How was that? So the first week, you know, my coach was amazing and we had several discussions about exactly, you know, what I would like to eat. And she created these amazing meal plans, um, which included the wine. What were the foods that you brought back? Like what, what did you not eat in a while that you were excited to eat again? Oh my gosh, bread. I mean, the fact that I could have, like, I think one of my, um, morning meals was the, um, the breakfast melt with the eggs and the muffin and the cheese. And I was like, this is fabulous. It's like dessert to me.

So the meals were great. And the program, you know, it started me out great. And because I've already disciplined and I get up every morning that getting to the gym was no big deal. And I convinced my husband to do the weight training with me a to get him back in the gym, but because I was fearful that I would need a spot. And so we started doing it. And I think the first challenge for me was I was so used to going into these workouts that were typically an hour and I would come out sweating, drenched, soaking wet. And this was more moving from, you know, chest press to incline. And, you know, it was a little bit more leisurely, a lot more resting. I mean, you're spending probably what you're probably spending about two minutes in between your sets. Yep. You have to rest. I know exactly what you're talking about because I've emailed and, uh, I guess primarily emailed with a lot

of women that went through the exact same experience coming from that exact super high intensity. You're leaving your workouts exhausted. Not a great way to start your day. Actually, I think to going to what they felt like, you know, they're not even doing anything. They're like, how could this possibly work? I'm I barely even sweat. That's what they felt like, you know, they're not even doing anything. They're like, how could this possibly work? I barely even sweat. That's what I felt. I was like, I don't know how this is going to be. I mean, well, there's two things, right? So what I learned pretty quickly on, so I track everything on my Apple iWatch. So as soon as I start my workout, I put on my workout program and I track my heart rate. And I'm sure it's not scientifically as accurate as

where I monitor, but it gives me an idea. So right away in the first week, what I did see is that I typically burned around the same calories I did in that hour workout where I was sweating to death and exhausted. And I was like, this is crazy. This is crazy that I could walk around the gym, rest for two to three minutes in between sets, still work out an hour and burn the same amount of calories. I was like, I've clearly like embarked upon something different and new. And if this ends up working out, which it did, this is a nicer way to work out in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, um, I've written about this and

even if you get very scientific about it, yeah, you were probably burning more calories previously, but it's not as much as many people think. So maybe you were burning 20% more with the super high intensity, but in terms of the perceived effort, I mean, of course your previous workouts probably felt two or three times harder, but you were definitely not burning two or three times as many calories. So yeah, it can be very counterintuitive. And there's also something to be said for with your resistance training workouts in particular, you're not there to burn calories. Like sure, you're going to burn calories, but now you understand that's not why you're doing them. You're doing them to train your muscles and you

want to be doing that as effectively as possible. And rest is very important because that's not why you're doing them. You're doing them to train your muscles and you want to be doing that as effectively as possible. And rest is very important because that's when your body, your muscles recoup their energy and strength. So you can give maximum effort on each set. And so you can progress as well as possible over time. That's what you want to be achieving in your resistance training workouts. Now, if you were doing some cardio on top of that, then those are the workouts where you're, yeah. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, you're pretty much just doing cardio to burn calories. Sure, there are some additional health benefits, but for those of us that are into weightlifting, if we're doing cardio, it's usually because we're cutting or we just want to bump up our energy expenditure so we can eat a

bit more food. Right. And I did, I did cardio two to three days a week. I did three sessions of HIIT 30 minutes each. And again, a welcome change compared to the high intensity I was doing six days a week. Yeah. And I, yeah, my, my wife does those high intensity classes sometimes at the local Equinox around here. And they, those are difficult classes. It's 60 or 70 minutes of hit basically that's what it is it's it's it's actually ridiculous she tries to get me to go to i'm like nah i just i don't i don't need to do 60 minutes of hit on top of everything else sorry right and you know well and what i found too which is a welcome benefit for me i'm 43 and as i get

older you know you have the creaks and the cracks and the joints. And when I was doing the high intensity workouts that I was doing before, my shoulder always hurt, my neck always hurt, you know, my calves and things like that from the jumping around and the Ajax and the jumping jacks. And all those issues are gone. Because I'm not putting that kind of strain on my body. I'm working out in a controlled way, and I'm slowly, gradually overloading week by week in a way that doesn't cause injury. I'm not moving so quickly.

You know, in those high intensity, you move out of sequence in the wrong way. You trip over your foot. Something could happen. It's sometimes a recipe for injury. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, CrossFit is similar in that way, where if it's programmed Yeah, absolutely. I mean, CrossFit is similar in that way where if it's

programmed well, sure. I mean, it can be reasonable in terms of a form of exercise, but it usually comes with a higher risk of injury just by its very nature, by what you're doing. If you're, like, if you're doing high intensity Olympic lifts, you're just at a higher risk of injury, even if you're actually good at it. Right. You're just at a higher risk of injury, even if you're actually good at it. Right. Hey, quickly, before we carry on, if you are liking my podcast, would you please help spread the word about it? Because no amount of marketing or advertising gimmicks can match the power of word of mouth.

So if you are enjoying this episode and you think of someone else who might enjoy it as well, please do tell them about it. It really helps me. And if you are going to post about it on social media, definitely tag me so I can say thank you. You can find me on Instagram at Muscle for Life Fitness, Twitter at Muscle for Life, and Facebook at Muscle for Life Fitness. Twitter at Muscle for Life and Facebook at Muscle for Life Fitness. So when you were going through the process, which was for people listening, it's a 90 day coaching, like a transformation program that we have. And that's what Amy was doing. Were there any obstacles along the way or hurdles that you had to clear anything that any kind of curve balls you had to deal with? Absolutely. So a couple things. The weight in the beginning was about a pound per week, right? So it was a little slower than I was

used to when I had that ketogenic diet experience. Yeah. And just to make it clear for people listening, the reason why if you go from a normal diet to a ketogenic diet, you can lose weight quickly is simply because you're dropping your carbs down to obviously almost nothing, which flushes a lot of water and glycogen out of the body. So you can achieve that rapid weight loss, but don't mistake that for rapid fat loss. Research has shown even in the case of ketogenic dieting, when you play it out over time, so long as you control for protein and calories. So as long as if you take two groups of people and you have them eat the same amount of protein and the same amount of calories every day and both are in an energy deficit, an equal energy deficit, ketogenic dieting does not result in more fat loss. You may lose more weight over the short term, let's say over the first four weeks. Even if you play that out over time, play it over 10, 12 plus weeks, even the weight gain normalizes between

the two diets. So that's why it can be satisfying to switch to a ketogenic diet and see four pounds come off in the first week. However, you just need to know that's not four pounds of fat, unfortunately. When you manipulate your carbs, once you bring them back in, you quickly can regain weight. So that can be very disconcerting to people and they don't realize that it's not fat that is coming off and coming back. It's just water and glycogen, which is a form of carbohydrates stored in your muscles and liver. So anyways, I just wanted to interject that for people listening, maybe wondering why, why was keto so great for just losing weight fast? Right. And so having the coach was super helpful on that because answering those questions

and giving me those answers, just like you gave, helped me to believe that the weight that I was losing was permanent weight, right? It wasn't a quick fit. It was, I was learning to lose this weight in a way that again, with the fat. So some of the biggest reductions I saw initially were in the body fat percentage that started to drop and week by week, I would lose a pound or maybe two and the, and the percentage of fat would drop and we would get to some plateaus. I think, you know, I consistently lost a pound for the first four weeks. You know, I would get into the one 18 range and then I would stall for a minute and, and via the coaching, she would say, just stick with it, Or she would make some modifications in the diet. And so we tried a few different things.

And so in the diet, particularly, I learned a lot. I learned way more than I've ever known about macros and eating to those macros. But some of the things like reverse dieting or a refeed day or dropping another 100 calories to see if that does anything to the weight. Or would you rather add another cardio session? It was all of these modifications that she brought to the table that helped me figure out for my body type and what I was looking to achieve, how to play with those numbers and how to find something that was satisfying.

But I've never along the way did I ever sacrificed what I was eating or how I was eating because I still got way more carbs than I've ever eaten in the past. I got a great amount of protein. I got a certain amount of fat and I got a certain amount of foods that I like to eat that I didn't have to give up. What was the difference for you between the ketogenic diet and just a more straightforward, just balanced diet, what were, I'm sure you noticed differences both inside and outside of the gym, right? Absolutely. So in a ketogenic diet, I was always hungry. And I think one of the claims to the ketogenic diet is that your body will reach this energy level where you won't feel hungry ever. And that wasn't the case for me. I always felt

starving. And was that the case even at different caloric intakes? I mean, because if you obviously, if you bring your calories down too low, even if you eat 100% carbs, or let's say it was like 45, 45, 10, 45% protein, 45% carb, 10% fat. So about as many calories as you can toward protein carbs, still there's a point where if your calories as many calories as you can toward protein and carbs. Still, there's a point where if your calories go too low, you are going to be hungry. But did you find that to be the case with the keto diet, even when your calories were a bit higher when they weren't necessarily 1,000 or 1,100? Well, I think this is the flaw of the ketogenic diet, right? They don't teach you about the macros. So I never knew what my calorie intake

should be. And so that was the biggest learning lesson for me was to establish your TDE, your total baseline. And then if you want to cut, we're going to have to take it down to here. Or if you want to maintain, you know, you reverse diet slowly until you get to a point where you can see your body maintaining this weight over time and not gaining. And then if you want to bulk, you do this. maintaining this weight over time and not gaining. And then if you want to bulk, you do this. And so I started to learn about things and components of eating properly that I'd never known in a way that let me believe that I'm not giving up anything anymore. I'm not giving up anything that I don't like to eat. I just know that I have to make accommodations if I want to have certain things in my diet. And that's where the ketogenic diet fails, right? They talk about low carb only,

but they don't teach you about anything else. And so who knows what, how much calories I were eating, but I can certainly guarantee you that it was very low, probably far too low. And that's why I experienced this lack of energy and this tiredness all the time. How did that compare to the more balanced approach? So I did fasted workouts probably up until about maybe three weeks ago and it was fine. It was great. I was lifting weights. I had good energy. I was doing my cardio. I get up at three 50 in the morning. I'm at the gym at five. I'm out of the gym by seven on days where I don't do cardio, seven 15, seven 30 and days where I do do cardio. And then I work crazy hours. And so

the diet was great. It gave me way more to eat. It was way more satisfying, way more carbs, which I think has helped my weightlifting because, you know, without carbs, I just didn't have the energy before to, even in my past workouts, before I started Muscle for Life, I had never weight lifted anything higher than like a 10 pound weight. It was crazy. But I probably could, right? But I just didn't. And I never had the desire or intensity to do it. Yeah, I started to program. And then certainly with the weightlifting, you know, the challenges in the beginning, you know, we started out at a level where we were just testing, you know, what was that comfortable lifting, and then the way the weight was added gradually over time was at a pace and a level that worked super well

for me until I got to the end of the program. And I started lifting higher weights. And I kind of reached this plateau, I think I sat at the chest press, you know, at 70, 70 pounds for weeks, and I just couldn't push beyond it. And that's what again, you know, the coach came in with some tools. And she said, you could do several things. She's like, you might it might be time for a deload week, she's like, it might be time for you to start reverse dieting and eating a bit more so that you have these calories that you can push yourself, or it might be time to not do the fasted workouts in the morning, but eat before your workouts. And so again, just all of these tools to start to experiment and play with and see what's, you know, what works well for you.

So right now I've been eating before my workouts and it's, you know, now I'm up to 75 and the chest press. And so I'm pushing beyond those limits, and it's working. I mean, your numbers are impressive now. What I have here is, when you say chest press, I have flat bench here. Is this like the barbell bench press? Yes. Yeah, so on the bench press, so your numbers have obviously gone up a little bit since what I'm looking at.

But 65 for 10, squat 125 for 8, deadlift 105 for eight, military press 55 for eight. Those are great numbers, especially considering I have here where you started, your deadlift has gone up from 60 to 105, your squat from 85 to 125 in just three months. That's impressive. Also considering that you were cutting, which as you know, and as most people listening know, or at least probably knows, cutting just impairs your muscle and strength gain. And yeah, if you're new to proper weightlifting or just weightlifting in general, your body's so hyper responsive, it just kind of overrides that and you can still gain muscle and strength in a deficit. But even then, it's harder and you don't gain as much in a deficit as you would in a surplus. So you've made really good progress considering that you have been in a deficit. And even comparing to what you were doing previously with keto, you were in a deficit. Maybe you're in a bit too big of a deficit, but you still went from a deficit to a deficit. It's not like you went from a deficit to a large surplus with carbs. And so that'd be a very different comparison. You went from a large deficit to a moderate deficit, but just changed the macronutrient

balance of your diet. And as you know, it can just make a very big difference inside and outside of the gym. Did you notice when you were doing keto, did it affect your mood and just your general energy levels outside of the gym? Absolutely. Nobody wants to be starving or be eating foods that they haven't eaten in 10 years for a very long time. It's never like you're constantly watching it, constantly thinking about it, constantly making sure it fits in with your daily routine and your

diet. And it does, it affects your moods. You know, I would say that most of the time, like during the work week, because I do go to bed at a decent hour and things like that. It wasn't, but on the weekends, I just wasn't as active as I probably could have been. Whereas this diet has been a breeze. It's been easy to follow. I love it. I welcome it. And I certainly appreciate all of the knowledge that I have and the ability to play with it in a way that I was never, I could never understand before. That's great. And in terms of bottom line results, just for listening, so the numbers I have here, and I'm curious now where you have gone from this point and what you're doing now.

So you started around 122, 23-ish percent body fat, and then three months later, 114, about 19% body fat, and again, increased your whole body strength a lot. I can't do the math off the top of my head, but I'd say it looks like maybe on average 30% or 40% across the board, which is pretty impressive. Right. I've lost another pound since then, which is odd because I did a deload week and I've been reverse dieting. Yeah, that's pretty common actually, because you got to think about when you're reverse dieting, again, really the reason, I know this is kind of a controversial topic these days, but I don't think it should be.

It's just made to be more controversial than it really should be. The idea with reverse dieting is, yeah, you could just jump your calories up to what you think is your TDE, but your current TDE is going to be lower than when you started dieting because you weigh less. Simply by that alone, it's going to be lower. There are also a couple of physiological factors in play that make your body more inclined to want to gain some fat back when you are in a deficit for a while. And of course, you can only do that with a surplus. But the idea of reverse dieting is just to jump your calories up in a stepwise fashion. So you can

just make sure that you don't go to eating way too much, which can happen also, maybe not with you because you have had such good discipline, obviously, with your diet, with everything for a long time. But a lot of people that maybe normally aren't so disciplined and they stick it through that diet. And now they go, I'm just going to jump my calories up an extra 600 calories a day because my TDE, in many cases, they misestimate what their TDE even is. They overestimate. And then now that they've added all this food back in, I don't quite know why. I haven't really looked into it in terms of the research. I've experienced it myself. I don't know if you've experienced this, but when you start eating more again,

that's the only time when I actually notice that I feel hungry. When I'm cutting, I don't get hungry. It doesn't, I don't even feel it. But when I start going back toward maintenance or if I'm going toward even a surplus, that's actually when my body, I don't know, it's like finally it's getting more food and it's into it. It's like, give me more food. That's when I'll feel hungry. So I've seen it working with people where they start to experience more hunger when

they're increasing their calories. So they jump their calories up and they're more hungry than they were when they were cutting. And then that leads to, you know, you have the weekend phenomenon. Well, yeah. So anyways, the idea with reverse dieting is just to control that increase. So you just over the course of a few weeks, you bring your calories back up to your new TDE as opposed to jumping them straight back to what you hope your TDE is and then hoping that you don't overshoot it and you don't start eating even more than that because it just gets out of control. Right. And I think one of the biggest problems with a lot of weight management

diet programs or the ketogenic diet or the paleo is that there's no maintenance, right? There's no real direction for maintenance. Yeah, it's mainly about weight loss, right? Because that's the big button, of course. Yeah. So they've got you to where you wanted to be, perhaps, in this rapid result. But then what do you do from there? And so a lot of people, what they end up doing is continuing on this road, like I did, dieting forever. Whereas this, like an extra 100 calories per week in this reverse diet mode is like, this is awesome. And then when it doesn't move the needle, it's even more awesome. Or like in your case, when it goes, your weight, you know, goes down because you're still, you know, you're still in a, in a deficit for the first few weeks,

even though it gets smaller. And then also generally, right. Being in a deficit is stressful to the body. So usually, especially after you've been dieting for a little bit, your cortisol levels are just chronically higher, which means that your water retention is chronically higher. And once you start giving your body more food, your cortisol levels come down, your water comes down. And so you can see weight loss for that reason as well. And you also then you'll really, you can notice it in the mirror because a lot of the water that you'll be flushing out is subcutaneous. So you'll just look leaner. It can be overnight. Right. And so I've just noticed that, again, I like, you know, I'm doing the reverse dieting now trying to find a maintenance. And I know that I'm getting to a point in my weightlifting,

again, where I'm at a challenging weight for squats, I'm at a challenging weight for bench pressing and for biceps. And so I know that perhaps in, you know, I'm thinking maybe in the fall, I will go through a bulk cycle and I increase my weight a little bit, um, and then try to come out of it for a cut in the spring to get ready for the bathing suits. That's great. So from now until then, it's going to be summer maintenance mode. You just want to stay because, cause yeah, now you're super lean and you're where you want to be. So you can just hang out there for the summer. Yep. I mean, it's just, again, the results, I thought 90 days, how long it flew by.

It worked better than I could have imagined. And again, my trouble areas, which were my thighs fit better in my clothes. They look way better. They have just been positioned better. It's just I can't speak enough about the program and how amazing it was for me. That's great. How's that experience been of other people? I'm sure they've noticed and asked, what are you doing? And then were they surprised to hear like, or to even see you like, wait a

minute, you're eating bread and what's going on? Absolutely. So I have, I have a colleague who I work with and we used to work out religiously together and run together and run races together. And, you know, she's like, I need this program. And my sister, who is a spin instructor and a personal trainer, you know, she even said, she said, this is the biggest transformation I've ever seen you do. I've seen you lose weight, but I've never seen you change your body in this way. And I think that's the component. Everybody always says you can't change one certain body part that you can't train your glutes until they become into this perfected mode, but you can change it. It might not, it might take a long time for this perfected mode, but you can change it. It might

not, it might take a long time for it to get there, but you can change it. I've seen people do it. I see women with great legs. I was like, I can have those legs if they can have those legs. So that's what I've seen. The biggest change for me is that your program actually sticks to that and it worked for that. And again, my sister was a personal trainer. You know, I was like, I don't know what you're doing with your clients, but it can't be as good as this because I don't see your clients or people who are in the gym, in the weight room, who are working out differently, getting any different results. And the last 90 days, I've watched several women who have been in there for the last 90 days, and they haven't changed one bit. And in those 90 days, I lost all that weight and

changed my body significantly. It's simple. It's programmed. And it gave me the power to do something that I've never been able to do with my body. Now I just look at everybody in the gym. I'm like, you guys should get on board. Do you have any idea? And people do come up to me like, what are you doing? And I tell them and they just can't believe that weightlifting was the answer. That's funny. Yeah, I know. I totally understand. I've had that conversation many times myself and online and offline.

So it's cool to hear, though, just because there's the vanity of it, right? There's the aesthetics or whatever. But there's also the long-term health component. And maintaining a high amount of lean mass is also incredibly important for long-term health. And I mean, there's a growing body of research that shows that the total amount of lean mass that you have is predictive basically of all-cause mortality. Meaning so, the more muscle you have, the less likely you are to die from anything and everything. Basically, just the stronger and more resilient your body is, which of course is kind of commonsensical when you say it like that. But at this point, it's also kind of, I'd say the weight of the evidence is clear where you can

safely say that that is probably a very accurate statement. And so there's also that is, you know, you keep this habit up and future you in, you know, 20 or 30 years, future is going to be very thankful for what you're doing right now, because you're just not going to have the problems that plague many people in their 60s and 70s and beyond. I mean, there's no reason why I remember seeing on Facebook, I don't know, weeks ago, it was how old was this guy was, I want to say, and I've seen it, I've seen women as well, I want to say in the in his 80sies and he was still competing in powerlifting competitions and you can do that. You know, he was in extremely good shape for, for an eight year old and didn't look

all drugged up either. Actually looked like he had done a good job maintaining his body composition over the years. And so like that dude is never going to fall down and break his hip. It's just not going to happen. Right. And I think about that because I had my son late in my thirties and I saw he is six now and I'm 43. And so I think I take that seriously. I want to be around when he's 43. Um, and I want to be active and you know, my mother who's 67, if she did fall, she would break a hip and she's never worked out a day in her life. And I don't ever want to be in a position where I age that drastically that quickly over time. I see certainly more men in the gym, more older men who are in their seventies. And I would never guess it because they are in great shape and they've just taken care of themselves. And it's a super important.

Totally, totally agree. That's one of my next books is going to be specifically for mid thirts and beyond. Many people don't know, actually, that in guys in particular, the muscle loss begins somewhere in the mid-20s. If you don't do anything to preserve muscle, you actually start losing muscle in your mid-20s, and the testosterone decline begins around there. I think it's more skewed toward the early 30s. But those are not just inevitabilities of aging. It can be completely prevented if you do a good job. And the same principles apply to women. The hormonal changes bit different, but the principles are the same in that you don't have to, yeah, our biological age increases, but we don't have to get old. That is an option. The day's passing is not an option, but we don't have to become decrepit and what we would consider old,

you know? Right. It's just, you know, it's so funny that you would think the medical world will tie into that. I remember when I had my son, I ended up having a C-section. And if you have the baby or not, you're in the doctor's office the same amount of time getting all your checkups. But one of the doctors had said to me, don't be surprised if you never have a strong core because of this. And now look at my abs. Like, that was ridiculous. How can you make a comment like that? And now I see my abs. I'm like, what do you mean? But if women are hearing this and, um, and that's the message being put out, then they're even reluctant to probably try to get that core or those kinds of definition in their abs. Um, it's just funny. You would, you would think the medical world would want to get on board and push their clients and their patients to be more healthy and have this longevity in life.

Yeah, I mean, I'd say there is a growing movement in that direction, for sure. It's just in school, MDs don't learn very much about nutrition. I mean, the amount of time that's spent on nutrition, let alone exercise, and there's anything on exercise, but nutrition, I forget the number, but it's astonishingly low. It's on them to educate themselves out of school and educate themselves in something that was completely neglected in school, which you could obviously by extension assume, oh, it must not be that important. But obviously there is now, I mean, just health and fitness in general is very much on the rise year over year. It has a seasonality to it. But every year, so obviously, Q1 is the biggest. For anything related to health and fitness, there's the most

interest in Q1. And if you just head over to Google Trends, you can see this. I think their data goes back to like 2004. If you look at anything related to health and fitness, it pretty much follows that same trend of Q1 is the biggest, Q2 is the second biggest, Q3 is third, and then Q4, it just tanks. But every year, Q1 just gets bigger and bigger. The entire trend is just in a higher range. And so you have a lot of doctors that are coming around on this and wanting to address the preventative side of things. And then there's also, obviously, there's the huge amount of cost associated with being unhealthy. And that's not a burden just to individuals.

It's a burden to all of us, like through health care costs. Absolutely. Which ultimately just comes down to more and more taxes. And the government says they just want to do more and more for everybody, which means they just want to take more and more from everybody to do things poorly. That's the government way. Anyways, I totally agree that the state right now is not that great. But 10, 15 years from now, I wouldn't be surprised if we've turned a corner, at least in that regard, where people are getting a lot more good advice from their doctors in terms of preventing health problems just through diet lifestyle.

Absolutely. That would be great. It's moving in that direction. Okay. Well, that's actually everything that I had, all my questions for you. Is there anything else that we haven't touched on that you'd like to share? Again, the program was fabulous for me, from the diet to the workout to the coaching. And if anyone listening is on the fence on the coaching, I would say the accountability and the tailored workouts and meal plans done for you was fantastic. It took the guesswork out of something in the beginning while you were learning to do this yourself. But overall, the program was remarkable for me and I got exactly what I wanted.

Super glad to hear that. Thank you. And thanks again for taking your time, Adia. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks, Mike. Keep up the good work. Keep me posted on how your bulk goes. That'll be your first proper, I guess we could say lean bulk, right? I mean, I like to say that just to distinguish from people's minds. Because that really is the approach. We're talking about a slight surplus, a controlled surplus, not just, you know, eat anything and everything and gain weight at any and all costs. That's counterproductive. I will let you know, cause I'm fearful of it,

but I know that you're going to like it. You're going to like is one, your workouts are going to be the best workouts you've ever had. You're going to have a lot of energy. You're going to like is one, your workouts are going to be the best workouts you've ever had. You're going to have a lot of energy. You're going to, you're going to progress rapidly and you know, you just feel better eating more calories period in general. And then sure, it's the fat gain that you get kind of annoyed with in the beginning where that's the curse of being lean, right? So take where you're at right now and take, let's say in the future, let's say you even get leaner, whatever the leanest you have ever been becomes your new, like acceptable and anything fatter than that is unacceptable. So that's the only psychological wrinkle, but that's just a matter of like getting over it, being like, yeah, whatever. Just being aware that, yeah, it's nice to, we all are, for whatever reason,

we are wired the same way that when we look in the mirror and we're very lean, we just really like what we see for whatever reason. So true. It's just the way it is. So you lose a bit of the vanity appeal, the aesthetic appeal, but you gain in better workouts, better mood, better energy. You'll probably sleep better. Everything is basically – everything else is basically better. And then you also know now losing fat is very easy to do. It's completely straightforward and it never changes. It's not like, oh, I mean, of course, not in a year, but it's not even in 20 years from now, you'll still be able to do the exact same

thing. It's not like your metabolism fundamentally shifts in any way. And especially if you continue doing what you're doing, your energy expenditure is not going to change. Nothing is going to change for the worse. So that's where you can also be just like, yeah, whatever. And you know, maybe, yeah, maybe you're not going to like being at a higher body fat percentage, but, uh, or at least you're not going to like how it looks, but you're not, but it's, yeah, you're not going to care either. Cause you're like, well, I know why I'm doing this. And it's a small sacrifice. Right. Agreed. And so I'm sure I'll be fearful when I start. I'll probably enjoy it while I'm doing it. And then I'll probably be ready for my cut. That's how it goes. Toward the end, you just get sick of eating food too. So you're welcome. You'll welcome the cut. You're going to be happy to not because usually, and I'm guessing just because of your body type, you're going to find that you'll move up into a surplus that'll serve you.

It's similar to cutting. That'll serve you for a bit, and then you're going to have to increase your food a bit. And you're not going to gain any more fat. That's just to keep the weight gain moving. So let's say that if you're a normal responder, you're probably going to gain equal parts fat and muscle as you gain weight. If you're a very high responder, you might gain a bit more muscle than fat. But just to keep that moving, you're probably going to have to raise your calories. And if you are going to do it properly, you're going to go for at least three months. Ideally,

you'd be able to stretch out a little bit longer. So by the end of that time, when you're cutting, it's obviously mild starvation. That's what you're doing. You're mildly starving your body and, you know, you, you feel it to some degree. And when you're bulking, you are, it's a, it's mild overfeeding and your body doesn't want either one. Your body just wants to maintain its current state. So, you know, that's what it tries to do through hormones and, and other factors relating to your appetite. It tries to just maintain where you're at. And so it's, it's funny. It's just a funny experience. You'll see for the, because it'll be your first time, the idea of like, Ooh, I get to eat all this extra food. It sounds good until

a couple months in where you're like, Oh, I can't, you're, you're just finishing your meals. You're like, I just got to get this down. My, your last meal of the day, you know, it takes that. It's going to take that. It's going to take willpower just to eat your final meal. So it's funny in that way. Even when I first started eating this meal program, and again, like I said, I hadn't eaten bread or rice in forever. The first time we made dinner, the pile of chicken and then the pile of rice and then the pile of veggies, my husband was like, this is like a hungry man dinner. I can only imagine in a bowl. Yeah. So those are going to be more, you're going to have more hungry man meals. That's how it goes. Yeah. So it was great. I

thank you for your website and all your knowledge and information. And I love the articles. Um, it's a wealth of knowledge that I can always go and find whatever I'm looking for. And if you dear listener want to learn more about my coaching service and how we might be able to help you reach your health and fitness goals faster, just head over to muscle for life.com slash coaching muscle F O R life.com slash coaching. And you can learn all about it and schedule a free consultation call where my director of coaching, Matthew, we'll get on the phone with you and talk about where you've been, where you want to go, and how we might be able to help you get there faster and

more enjoyably, which counts for something. Again, muscleforlife.com slash coaching. Check it out. Hey there, it is Mike again. I hope you enjoyed this episode and found it interesting and helpful. And if you did and don't mind doing me a favor and want to help me make this the most popular health and fitness podcast on the internet, then please leave a quick review of it on iTunes or wherever you're listening from. This not only convinces people that they should check the show out, it also increases its search visibility and thus helps more people find their way to me and learn how to build their best bodies ever too. And of course, if you want to be notified when the next episode goes live, then just subscribe to the podcast and you won't miss

out on any of the new goodies. Lastly, if you didn't like something about the show, then definitely shoot me an email at mike at muscleforlife.com and share your thoughts on how you think it could be better. I read everything myself and I'm always looking for constructive feedback, so please do reach out. All right, that's it. Thanks again for listening to this episode and I hope to hear from you soon. And lastly, this episode is brought to you by me. Seriously though, I'm not big on promoting stuff that I don't personally use and believe in. So instead I'm going to just quickly tell you about something of mine, specifically my 100% natural greens supplement Genesis. Now Genesis is a very unique combination of greens, superfoods, adaptogens, herbs, and other phytonutrients that have been proven to increase

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