Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - How Legion Coaching Helped Nick Lose 19 Pounds & 11% Body Fat In Just 90 Days

Episode Date: July 11, 2018

In this episode I interview Nick, who’s 40 years old and recently completed my 90-day coaching service. In this interview we talk about how he found his way to me and my work, including what he had tried previously, how things changed after he started implementing the advice in my books and articles, and how my 90-day coaching service helped him lose 19 pounds, 11% body fat, and 6 inches off of his waist, while also maintaining his strength on all of his big lifts. As with everything, nothing ever goes exactly as planned, and learning to adjust and adapt to conditions is an important part of the fitness game, which is something Nick experienced firsthand. He ran into a number of roadblocks along the way that most of us can relate to, including issues with workout and meal scheduling, hunger and cravings, dietary temptations, and more, and in our chat, Nick shares what has helped him navigate these barriers skillfully and prevent them from getting in his way. So, if you like hearing motivational stories about how people have changed their bodies and lives, and if you want to pick up a few tips that may help you along in your personal journey, then this episode is for you. 0:09 - Where were you at before the coaching? Where are you at now? 2:53 - How did your macros and diet change? 4:04 - Do you not go out to eat much? Or have you worked that back in? 10:52 - What type of mindset has helped you during the process? Has your mindset changed at all? 15:09 - What do you struggle with? 20:56 - How did you find my work? What was your coaching experience like? 24:01 - What did the training program look like? How about the meal plan? 25:30 - Why did you switch to low bar squats? 27:12 - What obstacles did you run into? 30:29 - What was your solution to snacking? 36:50 - What did the training look like? Did you run into any obstacles? 40:14 - Have you been really lean before? Is this approach to managing your body composition new to you? 41:31 - Do you see yourself continuing to manage your body comp? 47:09 - Is there anything else you'd like to share? 49:45 - Do you think anyone can achieve similar results? Want to get my best advice on how to gain muscle and strength and lose fat faster? Sign up for my free newsletter! Click here: https://www.muscleforlife.com/signup/

To eat healthy is not rocket science. It's a matter of planning. And for me, just the way that I function, accountability is really good. So being able to talk to a coach, you know, once a week, as well as have email communications, you know, on a, not necessarily a daily basis, but I had accountability on a daily basis. And that was Hello there and good day. Mike Matthews here from Muscle for Life and Legion Athletics. And it's time for another episode of the Muscle for Life podcast. This time around, I interview Nick, who is a 40-year-old dude who recently completed my 90-day coaching service. who is a 40-year-old dude who recently completed my 90-day coaching service. And in this interview, we talk about how he found his way to me and my work,

what he had done previously and what worked for him and what didn't, how things have changed after he started implementing the advice he found in my articles and my books, and how he was able to work with my team to lose 19 pounds, 11% body fat and six inches off his waist while also maintaining strength on all of his big lifts in just 90 days. And as with everything, nothing ever goes exactly as planned and learning to adjust and adapt to conditions is a very important part of succeeding in the fitness game, especially over the long term, which is something that Nick has learned firsthand. Along the way, he ran into a number of roadblocks, mostly related to diet, which is something that most all of us can relate to. He ran into meal scheduling issues, hunger and

cravings, cravings in particular, dietary temptations as well. And in this chat, Nick shares what helped him navigate these barriers skillfully and prevent them from getting in his way. Or should I say, prevent him from getting to where he wanted to be? Because they did get in the way. I think Nick's story is great because it's very real. If you have dieted in the past, or if you are dieting right now, or if you are about to start your first cut, your first proper cut, you are going to relate to Nick's story. Because as you will hear in this interview, Nick doesn't have superhuman

discipline or superhuman willpower. He did slip up a number of times, but as we both kind of discuss, we go back and forth sharing our experiences here. The key is in fitness, you don't have to be perfect. You just have to be good enough most of the time. And the difference between perfect, if you're talking about results, the difference between perfect and good enough most of the time. And the difference between perfect, if you're talking about results, the difference between perfect and good enough most of the time is actually not that big. It means that, okay, if you're perfect, maybe you get to your goal in eight weeks. And if you're just good enough, most of the time you still get to your goal, but maybe it takes you 10 weeks or maybe even 12 weeks,

but that's it. It's just, it just takes a bit longer. And while that may sound bad or negative on the nose, if you think about it, it actually is better for most people. They would rather have it take 10 to 12 weeks, but be able to enjoy the experience a bit more, not be as strict, as anal, as OCD on their diet, quote unquote, cheat a little bit more than they should, quote unquote, than having to weigh and track every single calorie and never deviating from their meal plans and having absolutely no cheat meals and so forth. Anyways, these are things that we talk about in this interview. So I hope you find it interesting and helpful. And lastly, this episode is brought to you by me. Seriously though, I'm not big on promoting stuff

that I don't personally use and believe in. So instead I'm going to just quickly tell you about something of mine. Specifically, my 100% natural pre-workout fat burner supplement, Forge. Now, it was designed to be used specifically when exercising in a fasted state, and it helps you maximize fat burning while training on an empty stomach, minimize the amount of muscle that you lose while training in this state, and maintain intensity and focus in your workouts. All that is why Forge has over 400 reviews on Amazon with a four-star average and another 220 on my website with a four and a half star average. So if you want to get leaner, faster, and especially in the quote-unquote hard to lose spots like the hips, thighs, and belly,

then you want to head over to www.legionathletics.com and pick up a bottle of Forge today. And just to show how much I appreciate my podcast peeps, use the coupon code podcast at checkout and you'll save 10% on your entire order. And lastly, you should also know that I have a very simple 100% money back guarantee that works like this. You either love my stuff or you get your money back, period. You don't have to return the products. You don't have to fill out forms. You don't have to jump through any other hoops or go through any other shenanigans.

So you really can't lose here. Head over to www.LegionAthletics.com now, place your order and see for yourself why my supplements have thousands of rave reviews all over the internet. And if for whatever reason, they're just not for you, contact us and we will give you a full refund on the spot. Hey, Nick, thanks for taking the time to come on the show. I really appreciate it. Hey, you bet. Glad to be here, Mike. So let's actually start with, let's do a little bit differently this time. Let's start with, you went through my 90-day coaching transformation service and let's just start with results. Where were you at before and where are you at now? That's a great question. I probably should have prepared my before and afters, huh?

I have, I have some numbers here if you want me to remind you. Yeah. Why don't you, why don't you remind me of the numbers and then I'll, uh, I'll kind of take talk, talk about the experience. Yeah. Okay. So here's what I have. Here's what I have from Carson. I have, uh, before you were 192 pounds, you were around 20% body fat, 39 inch waist. You were pretty strong. You had put up 220 for four on the flat bench. Your squat was at 315 for four, your deadlifts 355 for four, and your military press 140 for four. And then after 90 days later, weight 174, body fat around 9%, waist around 33 inches. Your flat bench, it went up a little bit. It went up to two 25 for four. Your squat is right around where you started three 15 for five. Your

deadlift was around where you started three 50 for five and your military press one 45 for five. So basically you obviously are an intermediate. You're an experienced weightlifter and you're able to lose a lot of weight, a lot of fat with no muscle loss to speak of. I'm sure that jives with your experience of it. Because if you're maintaining strength through a 90-day cut, you are not losing muscle. That's for sure. Sure. Yeah. And I think when you look at those numbers, that's where I obviously started and ended in the program. And right now, I think, you know, when you look at those numbers, that's where I obviously started and ended in the program. And I'm like right now, I think I'm maybe 60 days outside the program and I'm pretty much right at that spot as well. During the program, I pulled a hamstring.

Oh, wow. What happened? I think, I believe it was during a deadlift. So I had to drop my deadlifts for like three or four weeks and then kind of work my way back up to, I think right now, I think I'm at 355 deadlifting and squatting like 325 right now. So pretty, pretty much the same as where I was during the cut. But yeah, I mean, for me, it was all about, you know, I'd spent, I, I've always, you know, worked out moderate, moderately, you know, I've run marathons and Ragnar relays and I'd done CrossFit in the CrossFit in the past and, and things of that nature.

And I'd been lifting for, you know, a few years before I, uh, started the, the 90 day cut. Um, so yeah, I'd had a little bit of experience, but for me, it was all about, um, it was, it was all about, uh, macronutrients and body composition, to be honest with you. You want to talk about that more? So just a matter of, I mean, it's not rocket science, right? To eat healthy is not rocket science. It's a matter of planning.

And for me, just the way that I function, accountability is really good. So being able to talk to a coach, you know, once a week, as well as have email communications, you know, on a, not, not necessarily a daily basis, but I had accountability on a daily basis and that was helpful, but just being able to kind of plan it. Okay. Here's my week, you know, with work, what obstacles do I see in the way as far as eating out? And, and I kind of had to lock myself in my office from, uh,

work, work buddies. Cause they always wanted to go out to eat. I'm just like, no. And so after a while they quit asking me. So I've, I've probably,

uh, lost a couple of friends, but that's okay. I didn't like them anyways. They were, they must not have been most of friends, uh, much of friends anyway,

then if they're, if they're willing to make up over, uh, shitty food they're always making fun of my protein so are you just gonna eat your protein today i'm like my abs that you wish you had that's right how how is how is that how is that uh changed now do you go out do you still not do you not go out to eat much or have you worked that back in? Uh, you know, I, I don't go out to eat, uh, not, not a ton. Um, I wanted to say over the past couple of weeks, I've probably been out to eat two, maybe three times, um, between, yeah, between dates with my wife and, and, you know, work stuff. But, you know, I,

I mean, I've gotten a little bit lackadaisical as far as meal prep and things of that nature, but. Well, you can afford to, that's the great thing about maintenance, right? Is it's, it's, yeah, it still requires, if you want to stay pretty lean, it does require a bit of structure and a bit of discipline, but you have quite a bit of wiggle room as well. Yeah, for sure. But with that said, also it can get out of hand pretty fast. In fact, so I'm actually right now on a two week cut just because I've gained a few pounds and I just want to trim them off a little bit, get rid of probably another five pounds or so. So just because, you know, between holidays and family vacations and, and, uh, birthdays and things like that, you know, I've gained a little

bit, uh, a little bit more weight than I want to. So I'm on a little two week cut to try to trim off five pounds and then I'll go back into maintenance mode. But for me, like, yeah, actually that's, that's the great thing. I mean, that is maintenance though, right? Unless you have no social life, unless you're like me, uh, if you have, if you have any sort of life outside of work and some family time, then that's, that is the nice thing about maintenance, I think, is you can quote unquote afford to, yeah, okay. So if you have a string of birthday parties and social events and holidays or whatever, you know that, yeah, just enjoy yourself. Keep on doing your workouts. That alone will minimize fat gain. Uh, but just enjoy yourself. You don't have to, you don't have to, you know, go all out and binge, just eat the things you want to eat until you don't really feel

like eating anymore and see how it shakes out. And if in, at the end of it, if you're like, eh, I don't like, I gained a little bit more fat than I want. Then yeah. What's two or three weeks of, uh, going into a deficit and then just going back to normal. Sure. Yeah. And that's, and that's kind of, you know, that was the plan going into it. I, I knew, you know, those vacations and holidays and stuff are coming up. So I'd planned for it. I knew that it was going to be probably three, four weeks of lackadaisical maintenance, if you will. And then I would go into a cut. So yeah, as long as you plan for it, I think you're right. I think that's also, I mean, GQ's not calling to take pictures right now. Let's put it that way. can go on a vacation and not really be concerned about what you're going to eat because you know

that one, you can only do so much damage. I think a lot of people are more worried than they should be. You have to really try to gain a significant amount of fat in a short period of time. And two, even if it's more than you like, you know what you're going to do. You have your plan. So you can just enjoy yourself and you don't have to really have attention on, or you don't have to at least fight that internal battle of when you're sitting there, you know, looking at the menu and well, I really want that, but do I really want that? Should I eat that? Am I going to regret that? You don't really have any of that internal dialogue. You just eat what you want to eat and see where that puts you. And then if you need to do a little mini cut after you do it, and if you don't, you don't. Yeah. I mean, I agree with you a hundred percent.

It doesn't make any sense. I mean, doing an extended cut, I mean, let's just be honest. For sure. It gets to a point where it sucks. It just gets to a point where you're like, man, chicken and rice again, or sweet potatoes, which I actually love all that stuff. But sometimes, man, you just want to binge on something else. So that extended period of a cut, it's not the funnest all the time, especially at the end. So yeah, when you hit the maintenance mode, I kind of live by the premise now that, you know what? So yeah, when you hit the maintenance mode, I kind of live by the premise now that, you know what, if I'm good 90% of the time, I've got a little bit of leeway that other 10%. And then, I don't have a ton of, uh, self-discipline, I'm okay to, to relax a little bit and knowing that, you know,

self-discipline will come back tomorrow morning and we'll be back on it for the next three days. So totally. And that's, that's obviously the way most people function. I've now worked with and just communicated with tens of thousands of people. So I've just seen it time and time again, where I agree. I wouldn't even say you have to be on point 90% of the time. I would say you just have to be good enough most of the time. That's really what it comes down to. And all that being, taking to that next level of OCD, which is okay. Some people, I guess I would count myself among those people. If I'm cutting, I never really go off my plan because I just don't care. It's not that I'm worried about

gaining fat or losing fat slower. I really, truly don't really care. I can eat the same food every meal every day and enjoy it, or I can eat a lot of variety and enjoy that as well. It doesn't really matter to me, but, um, I'd say for, you know, for most people, just being good enough, most of the time is going to get you there. All it means is that it's not going to be a perfectly linear process. And it's, it's rarely perfectly linear, even for, uh, people that stick to, you know, every tracking and weighing every calorie every day. Uh. There are even just physiological reasons why it's never perfectly linear. And so if you are going off your meal plan a little bit more often than you would like, or, you know, cheating or whatever, overeating a little bit

more often than you like, as long as you're good enough, most of the time you will see consistent progress. You might just have to wait a little bit longer. Instead of eight weeks, it might take you 10 weeks or it might take you 12 weeks. But so long as you know that and you're fine with that, that's totally fine. If you go, I could be super strict and I could get to where I want to be in eight weeks, but psychologically, emotionally, it's going to take a toll on me. It's really not going to be enjoyable. Or I can be a little bit more loosey goosey with it, which is going to make, it's just, I'm just going to feel better, which is going to help with compliance on the whole. And I'm going to be able to enjoy my life a little bit more. And so the quote unquote price that I pay for that is an extra two to four weeks of,

of dieting. A lot of people will consciously, and I understand, and I think it's the right choice. We'll say, no, I'll take that. I'll take the latter over the former. Yeah. I mean, I look at it. You remember Simon Sinek's talk about the infinite game versus the finite game? I don't know if you remember his TED Talk back in, I don't know, like 2014 or something like that. I've only seen a handful of TED Talks. Yeah.

And the premise is he's talking about the finite game and the infinite game, and the finite game basically being you've got an end destination, right? Whereas the infinite game, the whole goal is just stay in the game. And so when I look at it from a dieting perspective or a cutting perspective, oftentimes people want to lose weight for certain things, maybe a wedding or a vacation or whatever the case may be. But the problem is, is when those are over, then they tend to gain all that weight back. And so I'm trying to look at it from an infinite game standpoint of, you know, I'm 40 years old right now. When I'm 60,

I don't want to be 20 pounds overweight. I don't want to be 50 pounds overweight. I just want to be kind of where I am right now. So what do I have to consistently do on a daily, weekly, monthly basis to just kind of maintain where I am for the rest of my life, rather than go through these huge, I'm going to gain 30 pounds and then I'm going to spend, you know, three months trying to lose 30 pounds and then six months later and back up 30. Like that's what I personally, I'm trying to avoid. And I think that that's what you see in society today. And as you said, yeah, if you just look at it from, if I can be consistent most of the time, and I'm not super strict, but I'm counting, you know, I'm on a meal plan, I'm counting calories or however you want to do it.

And you're good most of the time, you're going to make progress. Yeah, it may take you six or 10 weeks rather than eight weeks. But if you can continue to do that after the 10 weeks are over, then that's really the shift that you're trying to make, right? It's a mindset shift. Yeah. No, I like that. I like that framework.

I have never heard of it. I just pulled it up on Wikipedia. I'm going to check it out after a few hours. I mean, it makes sense. You first hear it and you go, oh, yeah, I mean, you get it right away, but I just have not come across those terms probably because I haven't really studied much about game theory in general, even though I'm interested in it, but it's just something that I've never really read up on much. I've never really read up on much. But I totally agree with that perspective. I guess that's something I've been kind of pitching since the beginning of when I got into the fitness space, at least as an educator, is to look at it as an infinite game.

And I think that becomes even more true as you get older. So I'm 34 and I'm of the same mindset where I'm now more interested in staying in the game than I am trying to race in a succession, race through a succession of finite games, whether it is body composition related or performance related or whatever. Now, of course, it's, I guess, maybe a bit easier for me to be at that point because on the whole, I'm pretty happy with my physique. There isn't that much that I would or even could change about it at this point naturally. So I could gain a bit more muscle. I probably have the frame for maybe 10 more pounds maybe,, it would be probably half of that would be in my lower body, which, uh, I wouldn't want, I actually don't kind of don't like that look. Like I, I have decent size in my lower body, but, um, by like power lifter standards, I would need to put on a bit of size, a bit more size of my legs where like, I already can, can't fit into most jeans

as it is. I could forget about jeans completely. if I were to go with the standard kind of body composition recommendations. But, but, um, but yeah, anyways, just to that point of I'm, I'm now just as interested in not getting hurt and enjoying my workouts and being able to do what I'm doing now when I'm, I mean, Hey, if I'd like to be doing what I'm doing now when I'm 70, mean, Hey, if I, I'd like to be doing what I'm doing now when I'm 70, uh, and, and it absolutely can be done. I mean, there are 70 year old power lifters who are probably stronger than I am, or at least as strong as I am. Um, so it can be done, but you have to, you have to look at it more and more in the longer, um, the longer term. Yeah. And I mean, that brings up a good point, like from a lifting

standpoint, you know, trying to stay in that long-term. So for example, I, I really struggle with sore shoulders a lot. In fact, my, and my bench press right now is it like 205 because I'm really struggling with some sore shoulders and my overhead press, I think is at 150. But my shoulders have just been really, really, really sore. And, and at the end of the day, yeah, it's frustrating to be like, Oh, I've dropped them from, you know, 230, 225 down to 205. Yep. But I'm also like, I'm not here to break any records. I'm here to stay healthy. And there's no reason for me to continue to, to try to push it and, and maybe tear a shoulder up or a rotator cuff, whatever that looks like. That'd be the most common injury, right?

Yeah, exactly. So rather than do that, I'm just going to drop weight and I'm going to, you know, do that for a few weeks and, and kind of see how I feel. And, and when, when they're not as sore anymore, or when I feel like they're back to normal, then I'll start to increase the weight again. And that's kind of the way I look at it. I've gone through the same experience myself where when I was in my twenties, my mid twenties, I had a good run of about, I'd say four years, five years where I was, I didn't,

not only did I not get hurt, I never really had any, uh, nagging. I mean, sure. You'd have little things here and there, but I was basically, I was able to do a lot of heavy weightlifting, a lot of progression, um, you know, hit all of my PRS in that period, probably when I was like 27, 28. And, and that's where I, you know, I definitely made significant progress in my physique. And since then I've, I've made a bit more progress, especially in certain areas that I've really targeted with additional volume. But now I have two kids. I don't sleep as well as I used to. I don't sleep as much as I used to. Even though I actually, the thing is I didn't sleep. That was also one of the strange things.

I would sleep on average, maybe six and a half hours a night. That's just when I would naturally wake up. Um, and I never had trouble sleeping. I would be out in five minutes and I would open my eyes and it's six and a half hours later. And that's it. Like that was my sleep every night. And now it's I'll wake up once or twice. And, you know, again, I don't know. It's like a, it's like one of those cliches that when you have kids, you just, your sleep is never quite what it, what it used to be. And, um, you know, that has definitely been true to, to a degree with me. And, you know, I don't know, it's just, there's, there's some age and some, some recovery issues. And so a couple of years ago I had biceps tendonitis. I had to deal with that. So I know exactly, I had to stop actually bench pressing for, I want to say four or five months. I just had to work around

it. I had to do flies. I could do some, some lighter, um, dumbbell pressing. And, um, so, you know, I know exactly how that is, but again, when you can, when you can really kind of lower your time for preference, right. And you can, and you can stop looking at, uh, well, how do your lifts today compare to the, the random dudes on Instagram, which you can stop looking at, well, how do your lifts today compare to the random dudes on Instagram, which you can stop caring about that and more look at it again, what are you in here for? And how long do you want to be doing this for? Then the temporary speed bumps just don't matter as much. And sure, you still want to, you want to get better and you want to be stronger and you want to keep progressing. But if that means that you

have to put things on pause and just kind of maintain for a couple months as you work through an injury or work through just nagging, because I, that's how I even ran into the biceps tendonitis was there were signs like I, after incline pressing, I was getting fairly heavy. I was inclined barbell pressing 275 or so for sets of three to four and my neck would be tight and, um, you know, I would get it massaged and stuff, but it just didn't, it didn't really, what I needed to do is stop incline pressing and probably start doing, uh, some actual stretches every day. Like there'd be some yoga poses that I now know that I would do every day to get rid of the problem instead of continuing to aggravate it. But I

didn't. And that eventually turned into biceps tendonitis, which it wasn't an extremely acute case. So I was able to get rid of it fairly quickly, but I know exactly how that is where it's a little bit annoying, especially when you enjoy training a certain way to have to work around it, but that's the smart thing to do if you're playing the infinite game. Right. Yeah. And I mean, you know, you bring up a good point. Everybody's playing their own game. You know what I mean? Like the only real person you can judge yourself against is yourself, right? So for example, I'm squatting right now, I think 325 for sets of five or what?

Yeah, five reps, three sets of five reps, right? And so I'd made a little bit of progress. I'm like, oh, that's pretty good. That's not too bad. And I walk into the gym the next day and some dude's bench pressing what I'm squatting. So I'm like, it doesn't matter what you do. Somebody is always going to be doing heavier weight or more reps than you. And that doesn't really, that doesn't matter, right? Focus on yourself. Then, yeah. But he's dealing with the same thing. So he might be squatting, let's say he's squatting

fours and then he sees somebody that is bench pressing fours or is squatting fives. And then depending on where he's at, he might feel inadequate. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what type of weight you're pushing in the gym. There's always somebody that's probably pushing more somewhere. So, yeah, just focus on your own progression. So yeah, just focus on your own progression. And I think that's really what helps you move forward.

I agree. help spread the word about it because no amount of marketing or advertising gimmicks can match the power of word of mouth. So if you are enjoying this episode and you think of someone else who might enjoy it as well, please do tell them about it. It really helps me. And if you are going to post about it on social media, definitely tag me so I can say thank you. You can find me on Instagram at Muscle for Life Fitness, Twitter at Muscle for Life, and Facebook at Muscle for Life Fitness. So let's talk about the coaching experience. So how did you find the service? How did you find me, find my work? And how did that... I'm also in particular, particular i like to hear what type of setup did you guys come up with for your diet for your training people always like to hear that because um

you know i try to do my best to give kind of you know um paint by numbers type approaches to to diet and training that are going to work well for most people, but circumstances, um, can, can, you know, mean that, uh, what works well for one person, whether it's in terms of, uh, meal timing or, uh, meal composition or macronutrient breakdown, et cetera, or on the training side of things, you know, there are a lot of variables that, uh, come into play. And one, it's hard to give a one size fits all approach that will work for all people. It's impossible, really. That'll work for everybody all the time. I do have asked to try to give one size fits most approaches that will get most

people to where they want to be. But I'd like to also hear specifically, what did you guys do? And did you run into any obstacles along the way that required, you know, that you, that you change what you're doing. And so what changes did you make and why? Yeah. So to go back to your first question,

how I found you, my wife probably, I don't know, it's probably been two or three years ago. She bought a muscle for life and I'm sorry, not muscle for life, bigger, leaner, stronger and thinner, for Life and I'm sorry, not Muscle for Life, Bigger, Leaner, Stronger and Thinner, Leaner, Stronger. And I read it, right? So I read that book and then I just kind of put my own training program together. That was like in the spring. Yeah, it was like in the

springtime. And from there, I downloaded the stacked app. So I started using that in the gym, which was super convenient. And then three, maybe three or four months later, I had you guys build a meal plan for me. And then I used that for two or three months. And from there, like I know myself well enough to know that oftentimes accountability is helpful because I just wasn't making the progress that I wanted to make. And, and this was kind of through the holiday season as well. So I have, I have a

personality. Yeah. So I was going to ask, was it, was it like, because diet was a little bit funky just due to, uh, circumstances. Yeah. But I also, here's kind of my personality. I'm, I'm super black and white in a lot of things that I do. I'm either all in or I'm all out. So what that does is that creates a lot of volatility in both my weight and my body composition. And I kind of wanted to get through that. So that's where I decided I would go into the coaching program and see if some accountability would help me kind of level some of that out.

And so, yeah, that's what, that's what happens. I hired coach. So I'm like your classic dude getting put at the top of your funnel through your book and just kind of working my way through it down to the bottom of the funnel and, and entering the coaching program. Cool. Cool. And so how did that go? Like what kind of, what kind of meal plan did you guys come up with? What did the training plan look like? did that go? Like what kind of, what kind of meal plan did you guys come up with? What did the training plan look like? So the training plan was a lot of, um, the similar stuff to what's just built out and bigger, leaner, stronger, you know, compound lifts. Um, I, I worked out five days a week. So my, just my regular routine and kind of the way that I do things, because I'm like you,

I've got four kids. So my days between work and evenings, between kids and work are just kind of jam-packed. So I get up at 4.30 every morning and that's when I hit the gym. So I was there five days a week, five days lifting, and then two to three days worth of hit cardio after my lifts. Mondays were, you know, chess. Tuesdays were back and calves. Wednesdays were shoulders and abs. Thursdays were legs. Fridays were upper body and abs. So pretty similar to- Yeah, pretty straightforward. Push-pull legs with some additional upper body volume. Push-pull legs. A lot of the same same compound lifts the thing that probably changed the most for me or one of the things that was changed a little bit for me was uh low bar squats rather than high bar squats which were i prefer low bar personally yeah you know what i it was super awkward for me uh but now

now that's what i do i i do low bar squats rather than high bar squats. Why, why did you switch? Well, the training program called for it. Like when I got with my coach, he called for it and he, he thought it was better. Uh, he liked it better. So I tried it and I stuck with it for a couple of weeks and then I just haven't gotten off of it to be honest. I mean, you're going to be, you're going to be stronger on low bar for sure. I mean, I think all around, I think it's definitely the place to start. If, um, some people they run into shoulder, like they don't have the shoulder mobility. And, uh, so that can make it difficult. And some people, if their wrists are very immobile, that can make it difficult. But if you can low bar, I generally recommend that as the

starting place. And, um, if you build a base of strength there and you want to play around with high bar just to see, um, what it's like, then, you know, I think that's fine. It's interesting. You bring up shoulder mobility. Cause that's one of the first things that I noticed doing low bar squats is dude, like after a set, my shoulders are, they're sore as heck. And I'm just like, dude, this is ridiculous. But it's because of, you know, kind of where your arms are and how far your shoulders are stretched in order to do them. But yeah, nonetheless, uh, yeah, that's what I I've stuck with now. I like it, uh, from a, from a meal standpoint, I I'm unlike you in the sense that you can eat the same thing every day and it doesn't matter to you. I can for short periods of time. So I'm good with the same meal plan for probably two weeks.

And I needed a different meal plan for the weekends because that, and I don't know if I'm unlike a lot of people, but Monday through Friday where I'm in a really set routine up at 4.30 at the gym, off to work, home. Yeah. I mean, everything is routine, right? Yeah. It's super easy. Saturday comes around and it's, okay, what am I going to do today? That's when, and especially Sunday when it's a little bit more relaxed, that's when eating or falling off the meal plan is super easy for me to do. So I had a different meal plan on the weekends

just to change it up from my Monday through Friday. And then about every two to three weeks, I would have to change up my meal plans just for a little bit of variety. Yeah. Yeah. That's very common. Idle hands are the devil's workshop, right? That's the weekend where you're kind of just around and there's food around and then there's just a lot of snacking and you don't really realize how much snacking there is. And so what I generally recommend is that, yeah, if you want to come up with a different plan for the weekend, that's totally fine.

If you want to come up with a different plan for the weekend, that's totally fine. Minimize the snacking though, because snacking just sucks because it's not very fulfilling, but you really can put down a lot of extra calories by the end of the day. If you're eating two or three larger meals, then you just throw in random snacks throughout the day. So if you can stick to the two or three larger meals, you have quite a bit of, and I, you know, also I think if you're going to, what I've often done when I'm cutting, especially if I'm lean and wanting to get really lean is I'm in my, my normal deficit for the week. And then on the weekends, I'll intentionally eat a bit more. Like I'll eat somewhere up around my TDE for the day, depending on how I'm feeling. If I'm feeling really good, I'll just kind of stick to my normal deficit.

But, um, on those days where I'm usually not lifting, uh, you know, rarely would I lift six days a week. It was almost always, uh, five days. I've tried some three and four day programs, but I kind of just like working out. So I stick with five, but, um, you know, so those are the weekend days are more of the recovery days, eat a bit more food that also tends to, uh, yeah, it just, just, just having, having a bit more calories, uh, to use when you're around food more and when food is maybe just a little bit more on your mind because your mind is not on the stuff it's normally on where, you know, basically it's,

uh, work and no, yeah, that's pretty much, that's pretty much what probably what is most on your mind during the week is work and food just gets fit in. Everything just kind of gets fit in, uh, around that and gets very little mind share. Yeah. And for, and for me, like I, I I'll get into these, um, mental, I guess, funks, if you will, where I just start craving something. So for me, mixed nuts and trail mix are my nemesis along with peanut butter bars. So if any of those are within like a 20 mile radius, I will devour them and I'll eat all of it. So that's where I, and that sucks. That sucks because it's super high calorie and it's super high fat. I mean,

sucks because it's super high calorie and it's super high fat. I mean, it's, it's nutritious. And so, you know, in, in one way it's not, at least it's not, um, just like fried Twinkies or something, but from a, from a, from a calories perspective, it might as well be fried. Yeah. And, and at the end of the day, like there was a couple of times I completely fell off the rails and, and I had, I had, I paid for it. So, you know, I i i put myself back a few days and what did you what was your solution did you just stop buying that stuff while you were cutting dude i wish here's the problem for me at work uh they have probably half gallon clear containers of trail mix so and you have to pass by just like a handful at a time like there's another like 200 calories not a handful we're talking like a whole bowl full.

Like just load that thing up with like 2000 calories and call it good. And then my wife uses like mixed nuts for her dieting, right? But dude, she's like so good about she'll portion them out and have them in these little Ziploc bags. But me, dude, if I find them, I like, I will devour the whole thing. I've gotten a lot better now, but it was a struggle there for a little bit. I like it. This is like a willpower challenge for you to overcome, to eat your wife's portion.

In fact, my, uh, uh, my trainer, I was, you know, on him back and forth one time about it. He's like, he sends me an email and he's like, hey, wouldn't it just be easier to not buy that stuff? And I'm like, yeah, absolutely. But I don't do the grocery shopping and I can't convince her not to. That's funny. So, but with that said, so with that said, like I fell off the rails, you know, I don't want to say several times, but a few times and just by refocusing, like I'm like, okay, that sucks.

But by refocusing and maybe I did an extra set of HIIT cardio and, you know, two or three days later, I was right back where I needed to be. So, you know, it's one of those things that you can recover from it if you have to, I don't recommend it. Like if you've got more self-control than I do, I would recommend just using self-control, but you know, if you do fall off the rails, you, you can, you can recover from it. It just takes longer. Yeah. And I think the point is not beating yourself up over it and realizing that pretty much everybody deals with the same issues.

And you can look at it from, yeah, the people that you might see on social media who are super fit all of the time, a lot of them have gotten to the point where they either have eating disorders or it's like a narcissistic kind of neurosis. But even if that's not the case, and I would like to think that I'm not one of those people, even though I'm not crazy shredded all the time, but I stay pretty lean. And I actually recorded a podcast with Mark Perry from Built Lean about this, who stays super lean year round. And what does it really take to stay super fit year round? Even if you don't go to the point, let's say that you don't go to the point of mental illness,

it still takes though, you can't get around the fact that your energy balance has to be tightly regulated. And there are only a few ways to really do that. And you can't afford to be in a significant calorie surplus very often if you want to stay really lean. And you can't afford to be in a significant calorie surplus very often if you want to stay really lean. And that's really kind of what it comes down to. So it's just understanding that what is realistic and what you actually want to achieve. And like, I mean, look at, look at your results speak for themselves. Uh, I mean, they're outstanding results and you'd show that to the average person and they would say, I would literally do anything to be able to do what you just did. Whereas when you look at it, you're like, I mean, I don't know, I guess I did, I did. Okay. I did good enough to, to get to where I'm at is kind of how you would look at it.

Um, but you know, that's, uh, it's a matter of, it's a matter of perspective. And, but what it shows is that it's not that you, um, have superhuman self-control or discipline, or you, uh, care so little about food that you could just eat, you know, boiled, um, chicken breast and steamed broccoli six times a day for six months on end to prepare for a bodybuilding show or something like that. Uh, it sounds very much that, and again, this is, I'm just speaking from experience working with a lot of people that your, your experience and what you've told me is very normal. That's, that's exactly how it goes for most people and the people that, that make it and the people that get the kind of

results that you get, they just don't get, they don't get too hard on themselves. And they just make sure that let's just say, if we wanted to go back to the old 80, 20 thing that, you know, 80% of the time they're, they're being strict, uh, enough. They're following their plan closely enough. They're getting in the gym, doing their workouts. But inevitably, if you were to average it out, yeah, there's probably a day or two days per week where things go a little bit awry, whether it's on the dietary side or the exercise side or both, yet they just keep going. They don't let that one bad day turn into three, five, 10 bad days, which turns into quitting. Yeah. I mean, I think it's just worth highlighting

because anybody listening that has gone through a similar experience or is going through a similar experience should know that it's very normal. And if you just keep going, you can get to where you want to be. Assuming you don't want to be a professional competitive bodybuilder or like physique athlete. Yeah. If you wanted that, no, pretty much everything that I talk about is, uh, would only be the first stepping stone. You'd have to go a lot further with everything to the point where it does become, uh, unhealthy mentally and physically. But if you're just a normal person, you don't have to be anywhere even close to perfect. Yeah. I mean, it really boils down to the

small and simple things. Small and simple things over time are going to get results. And it's good to know that I'm not the only crazy person out there that can't seem to be consistent 100% of the time, but that's just not me. That's not my style. Even the trail mix thing. If I were to go on my email and search for trail mix, a lot of emails would come up. Trail mix, chocolate, ice cream. Dude, I'm telling you, trail mix and peanut butter bars are my nemesis. No, and peanut butter, any sort of butter. If I just put in, whether it's peanut butter or almond butter is also a big thing. Oh, yeah, for sure.

So on the training side of things, were there anything, is there anything interesting that is worth bringing up there? Or was it pretty straightforward? You kind of followed a bigger, leaner, stronger-esque program. Did you have to make any kind of any changes along the way? Did you run into any obstacles? Yeah, I mean, so from the training perspective. I mean, you mentioned the hamstring issue. Yeah.

That was really the only obstacle that I ran into. The one thing that I would say that I thought was super interesting is being in a deficit for so long, my energy levels really never dropped. Probably the last week, maybe week and a half, like mentally and physically I was done. Like my energy was like super low mentally. Like I was just like, I was done in the sense that I just like, I just want to go back to normal for a while, but. Yep. Which, which I just want to interject just for people listening. If you reach that point and you're not done cutting though, you still have a bit of fat you want to lose, it's totally fine to take a diet break.

And if you want to read a little bit about that, head over to Muscle for Life and just search for diet break. You can check out an article that my editor-in-chief who writes with me, his name is Armie, short for Armistead. And he and I, I mean, he writes articles under his name. I write articles under my name, obviously, but he put up an article on that and some research that is diet breaks can be great for that. Where, I mean, basically it would come down to you raise your calories for a week or so up to around your TDEE. You don't want to go into a surplus, but you just give yourself a break. You just eat more food for a

week or two. And that can really help with that. Where if you're really starting to feel run down, just seven to 10 days of eating, it comes out to be quite a bit more calories if you're being aggressive with your fat loss, which I would recommend. So let's say you're cruising in a 25% deficit, let's say. I mean, that can be pretty significant. If you're, if you're, let's say your TDE is a 2000 calories, let's say that's a, it's a woman, right. And she's eating 1500 calories, uh, or so a day that's jumping up 400 ish calories is what you would, what you would jump up. And, um, you know, even for guys, that's quite a bit of food, but for women, that's, that's a significant amount of food. So if you were to, if you were to translate those, those numbers to,

to, to guys, it's, I'd say the relatively speaking, it feels like a large increase in food and it's just very satisfying. Yeah. And, and so that for me, kind of when I hit that point, luckily I was at the, I was really at the end of my cut and I had, that point. Luckily I was at the, I was really at the end of my cut and I had, my goal was, um, 8% body fat. And I think that my last, uh, percentage that I weighed in that was like eight and a half percent. So I was, I was really close to being there. And plus I would have some vacations coming up in the next couple of weeks. And I'm like the effort to get to where I wanted to be. Yeah. So it's time. It's just like, all right, let's call it here. Yeah. Let's call it here. And so I'm like, I'm going to maintain through the summer after Labor Day.

I'm going to kind of see where I'm at. Because my goal is just to hover around 10% kind of year round. And so I'll kind of see where I'm at Labor Day-ish. And then maybe go into a cut if I need to in you know, in the early fall and, and just kind of keep, keep going down that road. So that was really the only thing. Is that outlook new to you? Like previously, is this the leanest? Have you been really lean before? Um, is this approach to your managing your body composition new or have you been here before you're just coming back to it? Or have you been here before?

You're just coming back to it. No, I've never been this lean in my life. So I think I'm like most guys. All of my fat sits in my lower gut and my love handles. So for example, to go from, you know, I can see a difference now that, you know, I've gained a little bit of weight and it all sits right there in my, in my gut and my love handles. Right. So I've never been this, this lean my entire life, but I've never focused on it either. Right. I've always just focused on, you know, um, doing what I want to do and staying healthy, but I've never really been interested in body composition. If you will. The last time I had lost a lot of weight, I was running marathons,

but I got bored with that. That's one of my problems in life is I get bored really easy. So I kind of got bored with marathons after a couple of years and then have moved on to something else. So yeah, I've never been this lean. So this is just kind of new, kind of a new outlook as to the way I want to manage it going forward. Yeah. And how is that? Do you think it's something, because just from what you've been saying, looking at it in terms of the infinite game, the longer picture, is it something that you see like,

you know, at that point of boredom, of course, I've worked with and just spoken to a lot of people who have run into that as well. But a lot of people have found that, that, that the body composition game has been different for them and that they really could see themselves really like they get to it, they get into really good shape. And then they go, no, I really liked this actually. Like I, uh, and, and, and it just, it just shifts their whole mindset where they're then thinking like, I could be 50 and look more or less the same. Like, yeah, little things change. You don't look exactly the same at 50 as you did at 20. But body composition does not have to change at all.

You just look a bit older, but your body composition doesn't change at all. um, this is something I wanted to, I wanted to point out that is, is I've just seen it with many people who get, you got into this, not knowing exactly what to expect. And then we're, we're really excited on the other end of it where they're like, this is totally under my control. And I, and I care about this. This is not only is it, is it healthier to be at 10% body fat than 20% body fat? It just, it, it is not the 20% body fat as a guy is unhealthy per se, but, um, certain physiological, there are certain physiological aspects of your body now that work better, uh, at, at a lower body fat percentage. Like for example, just take insulin sensitivity is healthier to have higher insulin sensitivity. And your, your insulin sensitivity

right now is higher than it was when you're at 20% body fat period, even if you're exercising regardless of what you're doing. And there are some other things like that. So anyways, I just wanted to kind of point that out just for people listening to that. I think that's one of the hidden benefits, so to speak of what can look just like a more, um, uh, something that's more just about vanity, like, oh yeah, my abs and, uh, low body fat percentage. But, um, it's just, it's just something that I've, I've heard from many people where they were a little bit surprised that not so much that they care about how much they, their body or that they care about their body fat percentage more as a number, but just the experience of being leaner, of being fitter

and how that kind of impacts everything in their lives, where it can be where they now feel a personal conviction. Like, no, this is, this is a long-term thing for me now. Uh, whereas I can see with marathons, maybe when the novelty wears off and you're like, all right, now I'm just suffering and I don't even, I don't even care about this. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, I mean, for me, like it was, it was good to get that lean because now, you know, now you know what's possible. Right.

And to be quite frank with you, if I, if I cut in the fall, I'm probably going to try to get to, to 7% just so I can like really see the ab definition. Cause I probably, I had good ab definition, but not, uh, you know, not like picturesque if you will. So I'd like to see if I could get to that, that point. And for, for me, a couple of things have changed. So me and my wife, we've always been super active. So we mountain bike, we wakeboard, you know, we've run marathons and Ragnar relays and all that stuff. But something's changed for her as well in the sense that we've never focused on nutrition. But about the same time that I started focusing on it this last year, so did she. So now that's kind of our norm at this point in the sense that we both, it's not one of those deals that I'm like, oh, I got to eat healthy while she's making fried chicken. It's not that and it's never really been fried chicken. But for the most part, when I'm making an egg omelet in the morning with some spinach and salsa, you know, so she, you know, when I'm having chicken and broccoli at night, you know, she's, she's pretty much doing

the same thing. And so that's, I think that's making it easier for, from a long-term perspective, as well as to be quite frank with you. And I don't know if other people are this way, but when I, when I go out to eat, so for one of the things that I love in life is sushi. Like I, aside from trail mix and peanut butter bars, I can devour sushi. But when I go out and eat, I can also feel just on the ride home, the bloating. Like I can feel like the bloating in my gut and my love handles a little bit. I don't like the way that that feels. And so knowing what lean feels like compared to that feeling, I tend to move towards, okay,

what do I got to do to feel, to kind of make this bloating go away and feel more lean over the next day or two? Yeah. Yeah. No, I know what you mean. My wife loves sushi as well. So we go out for sushi often and yeah, that's what happens when you have like five grams of sodium in 30 minutes. You know, you deal with it. Yeah. But it tastes so good. Yeah. I agree. I mean, I like it not as much as she does, but, but I like it. Maybe that's the point where every week she wants to go eat sushi. Yeah. And often we do just something like, yeah, fine, whatever. I don't, I guess I don't really care that much where we go, but, but yeah, no, I know what you mean. So yeah, I mean,

that's, those are really all the questions that i that i had for you is there anything else that uh you'd like to share with everybody listening you know i think i kind of think we've run the gamut there um i you know for me it worked out it worked out great i really enjoyed it i liked the relationship that i created with uh with my coach so you know it would it would be fun to um you know touch base with him every once in a while, and I probably will. But at this point, I've got the tools that I need to really move forward. And so again, for me, it worked out great and I'll probably just continue to do it going forward. Awesome. Well, thanks for being a client and thanks for taking the time to do this going forward. Awesome. Well, uh, thanks for, for being a client and thanks for taking the

time to do this. I really appreciate it again. Great job on what you, uh, what you did. And like you said, now, you know, what's possible. You've done it once and you know, now, and you know, really that it's not, it's really not that difficult. It's not complicated. It's, it's very straightforward. It's just sticking to the plan and doing a good enough job most of the time. And you get there. And even getting down to 7% body fat, all that means is you just got to be a little bit tighter. It takes a little bit longer and you really have to tighten up toward the end. If you were to take where you stopped and then getting to where the next level of leanness is in my experience, uh, you'd want to cut out

the, the random cheating and you'd want to turn that into refeeding, which is like a plan to just higher carb intake, very low fat once a week. It really comes down to mostly, yeah, you do your workouts. You just have to be a bit more OCD about your diet. You really have to make sure that you are accounting for all the calories you're eating and you can't really afford to, to slip up, uh, unless, I mean, it just, it just really starts to make it take longer. But if you just can really, I'd say from where you're at, if you could go another eight weeks from there, uh, maybe six weeks, six to eight weeks from there, uh, very strict, then you'd, you'd, then you'd be there. And what you'll find

out if you do that is I would say as nice as it is to be very lean, to be six, 7% body fat, it's also difficult to maintain. And for me, I noticed less energy levels in, or just less energy in general, less energy in my workouts. I noticed that, um, yeah, I just wasn't able to eat enough food. I wasn't able to eat as much food as my body wanted without getting fatter. And, um, so, but yeah, I think again, if it's an experience that sounds interesting to you, you should do it just so you can say you did it. You can take some pictures with your kids and show them when they're older. Exactly. And you sparked another thought, if you don't mind. So when you talk about the fact that it really isn't that hard, anybody can do it.

Dude, I would attest to that a hundredfold. I mean, people that I work with and associate with, they would always comment, man, you're looking really good. Like, what are you doing? And I would just, I would tell, in fact, there was three or four guys at the gym that I would, I shared with them, hey, you should read this book, Muscle for Life. You should download this app. But they would say, oh, I really want to do that. And then they'd be eating, you know, a half a dozen Oreos for lunch. So it's not hard to do. Anybody can do it. It's just a matter of do like, you got to do a little bit of planning. You got to have just a little bit of self-discipline and consistency over time. And you could go from, you know, these guys that I were talking to,

they're probably sitting at 30% body fat and they could probably shred that super quick if they just had a little bit of discipline. Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, uh, there actually wrote an article that's going to go up, uh, uh, that includes this little story I'm going to tell, but it's, it just made me think of it. So there's a guy I met in the gym. His name's Josh. And, um, you know, similar, similar kind of story. He had 30 plus pounds to lose. He had tried different fad diets in the past that some resulted in some weight loss and then gained it right back. Others resulted in not much of anything. And so I've gotten to know him. And so he asked me, all right, so what should I do? Like, I want to be, I actually don't even remember his starting weight, but he wants to be

about 190 pounds. What should he do? And I was, I told him eat 2000 calories a day, eat about 150 grams of protein, about 150 grams of carbs, get the rest from fat. I don't, at this point, I don't even care what foods you eat. I'd recommend eating some nutritious foods. Uh, but that is kind of immaterial right now. If we want to just get some fat loss going 2000 calories a day, I don't care how you get there. Just stick to the, at least the protein, at least the protein do that. Um, and so he was a little bit taken aback first. He's like, no, I mean, really? It's like, that's, that's it.

That's what about carbs? What about sugars? What about gluten? What about, you know, red meat, blah, blah, blah. I don't care about any of that. 2000 calories a day. Uh, again, I would recommend that you don't eat a bunch of sugar and a bunch of junk because it's not going to be fun.

You're not going to feel very good, but if you feel compelled to, you can use those calories however you want once you get your protein. And so he had remarked that it reminded him, he's an interesting dude. So he has a degree in history and a degree in philosophy, but he works in finance. He went to school just to study stuff that he was interested in, knowing that he'd have no use for it in life. He just his version of having fun because that's what he's into. So anyways, he was like, that reminds me of something that Carl Jung said, which is that basically the things that you most want to find in life will be in the places that

you least want to look. And he was like, I've told myself for years now, I would never count calories. I would never track calories. I would never weigh my food. I'd never do anything like that. And now you, the fittest dude that I know, who has helped thousands and thousands of people get into great shape, you're telling me that I need to track my calories. That's exactly right. Take your 2000 calories and trust me, just do that. And, uh, he's down now like 20 pounds and, you know, he's just like, well, all right. That's, uh, that's what I bet. I guess that's what I've, you know, that's the place that I've least wanted to look all these years. And that held the, the secret, the big secret to, uh, you know, of the super fit, the super elite.

And it goes back to, it's the small and simple things. Really, it is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Again, it's the things that most people don't want to look at. Most people don't want to really have to face the energy balance because it's an ugly thing to face if you have a weird relationship with food. And if you, I guess, I mean, yeah, it's just for whatever reason, you have to get to that point in your fitness journey if you're really going to make it where you just have to face reality.

You might not like reality, but that is reality. Unfortunately, this is how our metabolism works. This is many, many, many thousands of years of evolution have gotten us. This is not going to change. This is how it's hardwired. We're going to store fat from food we eat. And it's the first law of thermodynamics. You can like it or dislike it. It is what it is. But once you can accept it, then you can actually make progress. Exactly. And track, track it and accept it. And away you go. Exactly. Well, thanks again, Nick. Really appreciate you taking the time and keep up the good work, man. Okay, man. Thanks, Mike. Talk to you later.

And if you dear listener want to learn more about my coaching service and how we might be able to help you reach your health and fitness goals faster, just head over to muscleforlife.com slash coaching, muscleforlife.com slash coaching, and you can learn all about it and schedule a free consultation call where my director of coaching, Matthew, will get on the phone with you and talk about where you've been, where you want to go, and how we might be able to help you get there faster and more enjoyably, which counts for something again, muscle for life.com slash coaching. Check it out. Hey there, it is Mike again. I hope you enjoyed this episode and found it interesting and helpful. And if you did, and don't mind doing me a favor and want to help me

make this the most popular health and fitness podcast on the internet, then please leave a quick review of it on iTunes or wherever you're listening from. This not only convinces people that they should check the show out, it also increases its search visibility and thus helps more people find their way to me and learn how to build their best bodies ever too. And of course, if you want to be notified when the next episode goes live, then just subscribe to the podcast and you won't miss out on any of the new goodies. Lastly, if you didn't like something about the show, then definitely shoot me an email at mike at muscleforlife.com and share your thoughts on

how you think it could be better. I read everything myself and I'm always looking for constructive feedback, so please do reach out. All right, that's it. Thanks again for listening to this episode and I hope to hear from you soon. Oh, and before you leave, let me quickly tell you about one other product of mine that I think you might like. Specifically, my 100% natural pre-workout fat burner supplement, Forge. Now, it was designed to be used specifically when exercising in a fasted state, and it helps you maximize fat burning while training on an empty stomach, minimize the amount of muscle that you lose while training in this state, and maintain intensity and focus in your workouts. All that is why Forge has over 400 reviews on Amazon with a four-star average

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You don't have to fill out forms. You don't have to jump through any other hoops or go through any other shenanigans. So you really can't lose here. Head over to www.lesionathletics.com now, place your order, and see for yourself why my supplements have thousands of rave reviews all over the internet. And if for whatever reason, they're just not for you, contact us and we will give you a full refund on the spot.