Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - How Liz Lost 38 Pounds and Got Fitter Than Ever In Her 50s

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

In this podcast, I interview Liz, who nearly gave up on reaching her fitness goals, but joined my one-on-one coaching program and lost 38 pounds while getting stronger than ever. And in her own words, it was “easier” than any other program she tried. That’s saying something because before finding my work, Liz struggled with body image from a young age. She spent decades (and thousands of dollars) on bunk programs, pills, books, and fad diets. She yo-yo dieted herself into losing and gaining the same 25 pounds over and over again. Understandably, she was skeptical of my book and coaching program, but took the leap as a last ditch effort before giving up on her goals. And she’s glad she did, because she finally learned how to take control of her health with flexible dieting, lose fat for good, and get stronger than she’s ever been. And she managed to do it in her 50s, with nothing but a home gym, and while facing several health conditions like hypothyroidism, arthritis, carpal tunnel syndrome, and even dental surgeries. In this episode, you’ll hear about Liz’s journey as she discusses the benefits of having a coach, what made Legion different from other programs she tried, the life-changing freedom of a flexible dieting plan, and the power of consistency over perfection. And now she just wants to inspire at least one other person to take the leap and change their own life. So, if you are looking for inspiration and motivation on your own health journey, this episode is for you. Tune in to hear Liz's story! Timestamps: (0:00) - Please leave a review of the show wherever you listen to podcasts and make sure to subscribe! (5:47) - Where were you at in your fitness journey before you found my work? (14:07) - Did you experience any challenges? (26:03) - How did you deal with having surgeries while doing the program? (27:51) - How do you like training at home? (30:12) - What was different about flexible dieting versus regular calorie counting? (32:46) - What stood out to you about Legion that made you want to try the program? (36:19) - My One-on-One Coaching Service: www.buylegion.com/coaching (37:59) - What are your fitness goals? (41:54) - How has your thyroid condition impacted your fitness journey? (57:08) - Is there anything else you would like to add? Mentioned on the show: My One-on-One Coaching Service: www.buylegion.com/coaching

Hello and welcome to another episode of Muscle for Life. I am Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today for another installment in my success story series of episodes where I speak to normal everyday people who have used my work. Sometimes they have signed up for my one-on-one coaching service, which is the case with today's guest. Sometimes they've just read articles and listened to podcasts and put my teachings into use and gotten good results and reached out to me and shared their story with before and after pictures. And I feature these guys and gals have been doing this since the beginning. I have thousands now over on my blog over at legionathletics.com. And I also invite the occasional success story to come here on the podcast and share their story with all of you,

my dear listeners. And so in this episode, you are going to hear from Liz, who nearly gave up on her fitness goals before finding me in my work because she had tried to achieve a certain body composition and level of fitness for so long, a couple of decades, if I remember correctly, at least 10 years, if not 20 years. I'm recording this intro about two weeks after I did the interview, so I don't remember the exact details. But I remember that she describes trying one fad diet and exercise routine after another for a long time, lose some weight, gain it back, lose some weight, gain it back. And so she was about to give up.

She is in her 50s and she thought that she just didn't have the genetics or didn't have the discipline or the drive to have the body that she really wanted, have the body that she would be most comfortable in, that would fit the clothes that she wanted to wear the way that she wanted to wear them and wanted them to fit, and the type of body that she wanted to see in the mirror that she felt was representative of her,

of her better qualities. And fortunately for Liz, she did not give up because she found me and my work and she ended up signing up for my one-on-one coaching program. She lost 38 pounds with her coach and she gained muscle, she gained strength. And in her own words, she said it was easier than any other program she has tried. And again, she had tried many programs over many years. And so I was Liz's last resort. I was her last ditch effort. It was give up or give this Mike Matthews thing a try. And in an almost poetic outcome, an instance of life imitating art, in a true act three type of ending, Liz musters up the energy and musters up the

motivation to make one final assault on the Citadel and then miraculously breaks through and against all odds defeats the villain who has been hunting and haunting her for as long as she can remember. And hooray. Anyway, a little bit dramatic, I know. But as you will hear in this interview, that is how it felt to Liz, and understandablyably so when you hear her story. And finally, if this interview resonates with you and you want to learn about my coaching service and see if it is a good fit for you, especially if you've read articles,

you have listened to podcasts, you have watched videos, and you still just aren't sure what to do, how to put all the pieces together, how to make it all work for you. Or maybe you know what to do, but you are struggling to stay on track. And if that's the case, and if you'd rather just have an expert take you by the hand, give you everything you need to succeed, everything you need to build your best body ever, custom diet plan, custom training plan, exercise technique, coaching and form checks, emotional encouragement, accountability and the rest of it. You really should check out my coaching service

because my team and I have worked with over 3000 men and women now of all ages and abilities. 3,000 men and women now of all ages and abilities. And chances are we can help you the same way we have helped them. We can help you reach your fitness goals faster than you ever thought possible. And so to learn more about my coaching, just head over to buylegion.com, B-U-Y-L-E-G-I-O-N.com slash coaching.

And you can check out how it works and some of our featured success stories and then schedule a free consultation call where we can get to learn about you, your circumstances, where you've been, where you wanna go, what you can do, what you cannot do, and see if this service is a good fit for you. And again, that URL is Bylegion.com slash coaching.

Hey, Liz, thanks for taking the time to come and talk to me on my podcast. Hi, Mike. It's a pleasure. So we're here to talk about you and talk about your fitness, your health, your journey so far. And where I usually like to start these discussions is, can you tell me and tell the listeners, where were things at before you found me and my work? Where were you at in your fitness? What did you try? What was working? What was not working? Why were you still looking for solutions? And then from there, I'm curious to hear how you found me, how you found Legion and how things have changed since then.

The journey probably started at nine. I think I was on my first diet at nine. Not that I really needed to lose weight, but my sister that is four years older than I am was on a diet. Therefore, I had to be on a diet. I was following everything she was doing. Nine and 13, already dieting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she didn't need to diet either.

But, you know, it was the era of ultra slim models. And so I think that started the journey of obsessing about food and weight and that kind of thing. So I've probably lost the same 10 to 25 to 30 pounds over and over and over my entire life. So I kept looking because I had to find a solution because it has been the, you know, it's been the struggle of my lifetime. Seriously, body image and just not feeling comfortable. I was almost at the point of giving up, to be honest. I've never been obese, but always overweight and uncomfortable. Yeah, tried everything you can imagine. You throw it at me, I've tried it. Spent money on pills and books and programs and gyms and all of it. And I was just about to give up. But I love to read. So I was on Amazon and through some

research, saw the book. Well, no, that looks interesting. Ordered the book. I thought, hmm, search, saw the book, thought, oh, that looks interesting, ordered the book. I thought, hmm, interesting. It wasn't even scratching the surface of the book. Then I started looking at your, you know, your bio and your background. Then I started to look at Legion and the supplements and that kind of thing. And then through your website, I saw the link to the free call for the coaching. And I thought, well, this is crazy. I said, no, I'm very skeptical. You should be. That's everybody getting into fitness.

Be very skeptical of everybody and everything. Unfortunately, that's the appropriate mindset. Exactly. So I thought, yeah, why would this be any different? Really, I thought to myself, why would this be any different? Really, I thought to myself, why would this be any different? But I had done enough digging that my gut was telling me there's something different here. There's something that maybe I should give a chance. So I filled out the survey and I had a call with Cody.

And it was like having a conversation with a friend. He was very generous with his time. There was no pressure. He answered my questions. He got back to me. He shared his journey. I wanted to see his journey, see if he was just a salesperson or if he had actually gone through, you know, are you just talking the talk or did you walk the walk, right? And I was on the cusp of not joining because I had dental surgery coming up and, you know, I was busy at work and there's, you know, I was right in the middle of COVID.

I thought, oh, you know, the gyms are closed, whatever. All the reasons were good to say timing is wrong, but there's never a perfect time to do anything. So I took the plunge. It's like when people are trying to figure out when's the perfect time to have kids. Like, I'm sorry, there is no perfect time. You just, there's a point where you just got to jump. And this was kind of it too.

And I thought, well, it just seemed different enough that I thought I'd give it a try. So when I joined, I figured I wouldn't join for three months because you can do anything for three months. So I joined for six because I wanted it to stick. And it's going to be two years come June. And I'm keeping on because I absolutely love my coach. And as much as I had been through a lot of programs, I might have gotten so far by myself, but I never would have been able to accomplish what I have with my coach. But I never would have been able to accomplish what I have with my coach.

Jamie Pearson is my coach. She is absolutely amazing. I was really concerned about age bias. I was afraid to be paired with a young 20-year-old that had no life experience, never had any weight issues and that kind of thing. And it was very refreshing to have her as a coach and to continue to have her as a coach. It's a privilege. She's very knowledgeable. She's encouraging. She's realistic. She listens to my feedback and what I'm struggling with or what have you. And anybody who's been through any kind of a diet or a struggle with weight knows that there is no

magic pill. There is nothing perfect. You have to show up and do the work, right? In your little black book of motivation, you'll say, well, yeah, that's great. You've planned, but are you ready to do the work? And I was. The beautiful thing about having a coach is that the accountability is really wonderful. That in itself, there are many times throughout the journey, nothing was perfect, right? So I had my dental surgery before I started, then started the program. I didn't even have all the equipment I needed to get started. I had no idea what a squat rack was. I had no idea.

Like I was really, even though I had done some weightlifting, very limited, lots of different things that I started and stopped over the years, but I really didn't have all the tools I needed, but it was okay. Cody had said, well, you know, I gave him a list of what I had. A gym wasn't an option for COVID. Everything was closed and it ended up being the best thing ever because I've been able to lose 38 pounds all at home. I'm at 20% body fat. I've gone down 16% body fat since I started. My back squat is at 115 pounds.

That's 50 pounds more than when I started. And my deadlift is at 130 pounds. And my bench press is at 94 pounds you know and I had no idea where to even start whether I could even put a plate on the bar because I had no idea where to start that's where I was at and now it's it's been amazing because I started I did P90X at some point which you know probably everybody else has I was so sore the first night that I did P90X, I couldn't wash my hair. I could barely wash my hair. I couldn't get my hands up.

And with this, I never had any excruciating pain. And I push myself. I really do. And it's just because you're taught the proper form. And I love the apps. I love the technical videos that you can go back to anytime to review the form and that kind of thing. Yeah, it's been it's been great. Honestly, Mike, it's been really, really great.

And it's probably been I'm not saying there's no effort, but it's probably been the easiest thing I've ever done in terms of a program. So much I want to I want to pick up on and on all this that so many good points that you're making here. You mentioned age bias. Do you feel comfortable sharing your age with people listening so they know? Or the reason I say that is because, well, I'll stop talking. Sure. Yeah, I was hoping you wouldn't ask, but I'll share it. If you don't, you don't have to, if you don't want to.

I just. No, no, I can't. I can't. I'm 58 years old. So what you've done is fantastic. And even just your body composition. Oh, yeah. You just say, you know, I'm just 20% body fat. And I mean, I've heard from many, many women over the years in their 40s, 50s and 60s who have come to believe, and it's usually because they've been told by others, it's like they've been programmed to think that because they're no longer 20 and because maybe their hormone profile isn't what it once was, for example, that it's too late to really get into shape. Yeah, you can make little improvements and you can exercise for your health, but it's too late to want to look, let's just say even athletic, just to have an

athletic look. So I love that I'm talking to you because this is just one of the many counterpoints that I've seen over the years that it's never too late. And so if you are comfortable talking about that, I wanted to go straight to just asking you if there were any challenges that were related to any of those things, or, I mean, if you're speaking to your peers, you're speaking to other women who let's say are 40, 50, 60 years old listening and who have been very discouraged because like you, they've tried many things in the past and they've, they've come to believe that it's just something that's wrong with their body at this point and they can't really do much about it.

Yeah. Well, I, I tell them that's a myth. I have hypothyroidism. I only have half my thyroid. That's okay. That's a real thyroid condition, which is important because I've heard from many women who have seen a chiropractor or even just like talked with some guru online who has, you can't even use the word diagnose, who has told them, oh, it's probably that you have a thyroid condition. No medical diagnosis, no actual problem. It's usually a prelude to some weird diet or some weird supplement they're supposed to take to fix it. But that's a real thyroid condition. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I also thought going into this, how much could I possibly accomplish given that? So it's a myth,

like it or not. And, you know, when I looked at what the program really was, Mike, I thought to myself, what is different here? What how how can this be any different? How can it work any differently? So yeah, I was even skeptical. And of course, I went through the whole, you know, I was addicted to buying diet books, it was like, let's let's try something else. And let's try something else. And while you're trying something else, well, you know, you're throwing caution to the wind and saying, I'm going to start something else so i may as well just go ahead and eat and not exercise and you know what i'm saying it's that whole madness that comes with with and like i say i wasn't that overweight but still 38 pounds is significant but that was as

heavy as i had ever been but the madness whether it was 10 pounds 5 pounds or 20 pounds or 30 pounds it doesn't matter it was the same madness so when i or 20 pounds, or 30 pounds, it doesn't matter. It was the same madness. So when I saw this, I thought, nah, can't be any different. But it is. And I think, I mean, the reason why I'm doing this, Mike, is I'm a very private person. So it's a testament to you and your company and your coaching program. And I think the most refreshing thing was when I saw my meal plan before starting, it was sort of like, oh, great, here we go again. Chicken, vegetables, steamed, yay, wow. And I thought, this is going to be, you know, so I went through that whole process again of saying, oh, here we go again. But, you know, if that's me, I'm just tenacious and I figured okay here we go but then

then the beauty of the flexible dieting when I finally understood what that really was it was freedom and it remains freedom it doesn't mean that you're eating you know junk food five days a week or three times a day or anything like that, but nothing's off the table. You can eat whatever you want as long as you're eating well most of the time and you're fitting into your macros and your calories. Nothing's off the table. And that is just freedom. It really is. And it's kind of counterintuitive. It can sound counterintuitive to people who haven't gone through the experience that you have because the idea, they think of anything related to numbers like calories or macros, whether it's planning or tracking or even paying attention to,

they equate that with restrictive dieting. But of course, I would argue, and you'd probably agree, that it's far more restrictive to try to follow a diet that has a bunch of rules and all the things that you can't eat and the only things that you can eat and it's more liberating to have some boundaries that you can operate within but you can you can do a basically whatever you want within those uh boundaries and there are only a couple maybe non-negotiables and all the rest of it is negotiable yep exactly and that was the key and so would you would you would you say that that contributed the most to your ability to break this previous yo-yo cycle that you had gone through so many times i i would say so i eat more more now than ever, I think. And I weigh less than I have

ever. So yeah, it's really still a little mind-boggling to me as to how the science works. But I would really like to thank you for doing the deep dive into the science. Because, you know, as cliche as it's going to sound it is life-altering it has been for me and i'm grateful to have found your work and your company it's a gift and and i'm hoping if i can inspire one person to take a chance on you guys because that's really what i did i took a chance because i was ready to just say yeah i'm done with this but uh but there was enough there to to pique my interest and give it a shot. And I've never looked back and I will never go down that road again. And it's easy to sustain.

And that's the key. It needs to be. It needs to be because it needs to be a lifestyle, not a 30-day challenge or even a 90-day transformation. It really just needs to be a lifestyle. Yeah. And my motivation throughout my 20s and 30s and so on, and even as a teenager, was really vanity. But now my motivations are different. I've had high blood pressure. I don't take any medication anymore. There's heart disease in my family, osteoporosis, obesity, lots of different things that are precursors that genetically I'm predisposed to. So for me, I just want to be strong. I just want to be strong and healthy as I age. And of course, to look good, of course. I was going to say, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of vanity. That's part of the reason

why all of us do this. And there's, there's, there's no shame in admitting that. No, no, no. So, uh, so that's been great. And I think the, the other thing that's been great for me too, is you don't have to be perfect all the time. You know, I had challenges with my coach, but Jamie and I make a great team. She was always there to, and she's still there to help me through things. Right.

So I had a dental, another dental surgery in between where it would have been really easy to quit, but she worked me through, you know, lead up the recovery time and then how to ease back into things without losing too much momentum or muscle and that kind of thing. Can you share some details? I mean, that's a challenge. I guess there were two surgeries. Any other challenges that you had to overcome that are just specific to you and what you were doing? During the program? Absolutely. Nothing's in a straight line, right? Like things go, you know, life throws you curve balls and so on. Yeah, I was diagnosed with arthritis in my knees. So we had to adjust for a period of time while I had a flare up because that was new. It wasn't

something I was aware of. And so, yeah, we worked through that. And then, you know, that would have been a really perfect excuse to say, hey, I've got bad knees. I can't do, I can't do back squats anymore. I can't do this or I can't do that. And I think that we're our own worst enemies. We're self-limiting technically. And I have carpal tunnel syndrome. You know, other people would say, oh, gee, I can't, I can't lift weights. I got carpal tunnel syndrome. Oh, sure you can, you know. And not only that, but if you do your strength training properly and appropriately, it's going to improve those conditions, not make them worse. Now, of course, there are certain conditions that, that would preclude you from doing certain things or certain things would be contraindicated,

of course. But to your point, strength training on the whole, it can be made to fit really anybody's circumstances. If with a competent practitioner and whatever they have, strength training is just good for what ails you as the saying goes and if you experience that how are your how are your knees doing how is your carpal tunnel doing good excellent yeah even even during flare-ups you know we just just adjusted things that was all really and i'm stronger than i ever have been and that alone of course is good for your joints having stronger muscles is better for your joints, period. Absolutely.

And for me, it's also a question of for my bones. I just want to be strong as I age and to continue to be able to do everything that I'm able to do now. And you mentioned with your body composition, your metabolism, strength training does wonders for that too. So I'm not surprised that you feel like, or even you know the numbers, that you're eating more food than in the past or consistently eating more, yet you look very different.

The combination of, I'm guessing in the past, you weren't eating as much protein. That's usually the case. So shifting some of those calories, but then also that regular strength training just gives your body something else to do with calories than store them as body fat. Exactly. Exactly. And we chose five days a week for lifting, which is still the goal. I don't make the mark all the time. I mean, while I was cutting the first cut, certainly I was like a bulldog.

I was just really a target i mean you taste blood for the first time and you start to see it and you and then you just want to see more i understand yeah exactly now we've been through sort of a lean bulk very conservative lean bulk because i didn't want to gain a lot of fat. We're doing another cut, just a little mini cut. And then we'll, my goal is really to gain more muscle now, but the nice part about it. And I think the thing that's key, especially for those that are maybe thinking on embarking on such a journey is that you don't have to be perfect. And what did that look like for you? What do you mean when you say that? Well, consistency is key. I think that that helped me a lot to just say, you know what?

You don't have to be perfect. You're going to have days where, you know, you lose a few reps here and there. You don't feel like it. Now I'm at the point where, you know, my 130-pound deadlifts, sometimes I'm thinking, man, weights are getting heavy. This is, you know, do I really feel like doing this? And, you know, you just get started, you know, you do your warmup sets and you just get into the groove. And once you're done, you feel like a million bucks and you're happy you did it. And it's not

that big a deal. And you don't have the, I've never had the aches and pains that I thought I'd have lifting this kind of weight. I just don't. It's pretty amazing. Ironically, many people find that the aches and pains more often come if they have to take time off or after a few weeks of not training, that's when their knee starts to bother them a little bit or their back starts to bother them a little bit. And then they get back into the habit of training and then no problems anymore. And pain is kind of a mysterious thing. The science of it and then, and then no problems anymore. And, you know, pain is kind of a mysterious thing that the science of it's very complicated and they're, they're still trying to, there still are many questions about how it works, but one, one theory, it's probably still the

prevailing theory. Last time I looked at the research is that strength training can, can raise our threshold of, of pain perception. So there's something that could cause pain. Something is not quite right. It doesn't mean there's a major problem, but something is not quite right. And if we were not doing regular strength training, the threshold of pain would be enough or would be low enough that we could perceive it. But by training regularly, we just kind of raise that threshold. And then we're just, we just don't feel it anymore. And that is though, in a, in a healthy and productive way, rather than taking drugs to mask the pain. Exactly. So that's, that's, that's pretty cool. And again, counterintuitive.

Absolutely. It still amazes me. How did you deal with the surgeries and having to, like, did you miss some time? The one prior to wasn't that big a deal because it was before the program started. So the one in between, I probably maybe a week and a half kind of thing. Not too, too bad. No. And so you were, you should, you probably were able to more or less pick up where you left off if, if you were only off for a week and a half, I'm guessing. Yeah. I mean, in a week and a half is surprising. You, you do feel a bit of, you know, you, you figure out, can I pick up the same weights? You'll lose a few reps, but yeah, for the most part, it was just a hiccup, but without the coach, I think it would have been,

it would have been a lot harder to be consistent. Even now, I find, and I'm a fairly self-motivated person and a self-starter, but even at that, there are times where life and fatigue and sleeplessness and overtime and you name it, there's always something that sort of throws you a curveball. And it's just a lot easier with a coach to work through it and keeps it refreshing. And the part that's really nice is by having a coach, the recipe is laid out for you. Show up, do the work. That's one of the biggest benefits of my coaching and any well-designed coaching service is just that. Just all the thought and all the work is done for you.

You just follow the plan. If there's anything that doesn't work for you, you let your coach know. It's their job to make it work for you. You don't have to go read. You don't have to go watch YouTube videos. It's not your job. It's their job to figure it out. It's your job to do it and to enjoy it.

That's all you got to do. And if you're not doing it, that's a problem. If you're not enjoying it, that's a problem because we need to make it so you can enjoy it. But it's doable. It's doable and it's sustainable. That's the nice part about it. So are you still training at home? Yeah.

So I've just heard from many people over the years who some people, they like training at home by themselves. They just like it, because they're by themselves, because there are other things they could just go do instead. What has that been like for you? I really like it. There are zero excuses. I have everything I need here. I have everything I need here. And, you know, the fact that I really don't have any, I have a treadmill, I never unfolded it once the entire time that I've been on this program. Not once. I mean, the squat rack was essential once I understood why I needed it. And, you know, I bought a little bit of equipment. I bought a decent bar and some plates. And, you know, I bought what I needed, you know, bought myself some decent shoes so that I, you know, instead of having runny shoes. You're like, you're a proper weightlifter.

Yes. Yeah, I should be a proper weightlifter. But I love it from that perspective. I don't have, I don't have the excuse to say, oh, I'm coming home and then I got to go back out. I live in the country, so, you know, nothing's really close. And for me, I've got everything I need. And yeah, no, it's not hard to be motivated at all. But somebody might say, well, you know, don't have a gym.

You know what? All the excuses are good. If you want it, yeah, there is some work. It's not as consuming as some of the other programs I've done. Far from it. Yeah, yeah. I've said before, just ask this kind of rhetorical question to people who are still in that cycle of making excuses, finding reasons to not do something. It's like, do you need more motivation or do you just need to decide that not achieving your goals is simply not acceptable? You got to reach that point where you just go, I am not okay with not making this happen. So I just have to figure out how to make it happen. And the beauty is you guys have figured it out. You did the deep dive.

You did the research. You found the recipe. You're sharing the recipe. All we have to do is follow the recipe. And you know, anybody who's going to, cause I thought to myself, I would never count calories ever again. That was. So you had tried that in the past? Oh, sure. Oh, absolutely. And it just about drove me crazy.

Interesting. Can you talk about that? I'm curious what specifically about it made it different than the flexible dieting approach? Well, the interesting thing is, you know, over the years, as you know, because I've been reading about this stuff, I can't remember when I wasn't reading about this stuff. And so we went to the low carb and the low fat and then the high fat and you know, the change of this and that. And then, oh, well, you don't have to count calories and you can eat as much fat as you want and whatever. And like it or not, that's not true. So for me, the thought of having to count calories, that was almost a showstopper for me. And yet, when I started to realize just how much fat I

was consuming just by putting cream in my coffee in the morning. So the point of it is you have a decent scale. Once you get the hang of things, you have a pretty good idea of what you're eating. However, if you are not measuring and weighing, you have no idea what you're eating. However, if you are not measuring and weighing, you have no idea what you're eating. Even if you think you're eating well, you just don't have a clue. And so it's not hard once you get into the swing of things, but it's essential. It is essential. Yep. I mean, that's a common denominator of basically everybody I've spoken to over the years who has gone through a similar experience that you have is that the weighing and measuring for a period, not that you need to do it forever,

but doing that for a period gave them a eureka moment and helped them understand why so many things that they tried in the past didn't work. Because to your point, it's just the idea of what a proper portion of anything was, was grossly distorted. And once they understood the principles of energy balance, then connected that to, well, what does that really look like in actual food? And then they started to understand like, oh, so this is what 1,500 calories looks like. This is what 2,000 calories looks like.

I would have thought 2,000 calories looks like 3,000 2 000 calories looks like i would have thought 2 000 calories looks like 3 000 calories you know yeah yeah it's it's pretty crazy for sure like i say it it's uh it's simple there is some discipline required to it but it's not it's not life all life altering in in the sense that how many programs was oh i have to have this in the fridge. I got to go shopping for this. I got to cook this. I got to have this for breakfast. Got to have this for lunch. And oh, I got to prepare for tomorrow. It is exhausting. It is exhausting. And I did it for years and decades, decades. So you start, you're all pumped up to start something and then you get, you know, a little bit of success and then you get deflated and it's not sustainable. And out of curiosity, because you had tried so many things in the past, do you remember,

I'm just genuinely curious, what about Legion and my work and the presentation just gave you a little bit of hope that maybe this is worth pursuing? Because I'm sure in some ways it looked like something else you had tried before, like just another one of these, you know? Yeah, exactly. The success story certainly helped. I had seen some of those before, of course. The talk with Cody was really, really good. But I think what really did it for me, to be honest, is when I looked at your website and I went to the coaching section, there was a guy. I don't remember what his name was. I don't know. I would say he might have been in his 40s.

Nothing special about him in the sense that he was a guy. You'd think I'd relate more to a woman. However, his testimonial was kind of what pushed me over the edge to make that call. And like I say, I had read, you know, I did a pretty deep dive into your stuff. And I didn't even finish reading the book before starting, to be honest, because I thought if I wait for that, I'll never get started because there's always so much to do. And you can kind of just shortcut, you can kind of skip like, you know, again, that's, that's a good little quote unquote hack for learning anything quickly is if you can get good coaching, it's fun to read books, but it's faster to get good coaching. It is. And that was it for me. I think it was, I didn't want to do the thinking. I didn't want to do the calculating. I didn't want to figure out what I had to eat. I didn't want to try and figure out what equipment I needed at home to get this done. And I just, I needed some help. I figured, you know what, I've tried enough things on my own and that hasn't worked. And this seems different enough that I figured I'd give it a shot. And here we are two years later.

Makes sense. I mean, it's something that if you want to learn any new thing, even if it's, uh, just a hobby looking for coaching right away is, is not a bad idea. Cause again, you find a good coach, you can save yourself so much time and so much frustration. And, you know, that's something that I even look for, you know, if I for if I wanted to start playing tennis. So I think that might be fun. I absolutely would immediately just find a good coach and start working with a good coach before I would even read anything. Because I don't know if I even am going to like tennis enough to want to read a tennis

book. But if I work with a good coach, I know that every hour spent with him could be as valuable as 10 or 15 hours spent on my own or more. I've learned so many things. Like there were things that were, I thought I was stuck that I'd never be able to lift another pound. You know, she helped me to with, with Versa grips, for example, and micro plates and, you know, five pounds at some point for me seemed impossible I had no idea about microplates I had you know and there are times where you're just discouraged because you know you figure well you know I've probably gone as far as I'm gonna go and and uh you know the the

phone calls are just great and you know the video reviews and and the progress reviews are just really, really helpful. Extremely helpful. Like my coach, she's amazing. I think we make an amazing team and I'm not ready to give that up. I'm having too much fun and learning a lot at the same time. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Do you want to transform your body, but you just can't seem to break out of the rut? Have you read books and articles, watched videos, listened to podcasts, but still just aren't sure exactly how to put all the pieces

together for you? Or maybe you know what to do, but you're still struggling to stay motivated and on track and do the things that you know you should do. Well, if you are nodding your head, I understand getting into great shape is pretty straightforward when you know what to do, but it's not easy. It takes time. It takes effort. It takes grit. And that's why I created my VIP one-on-one coaching service. We take people by the hand and we give them everything they need to build their best body ever. We give them a custom diet plan, training plan, supplementation plan. If they want supplements, you don't have to take supplements.

We coach them on how to do every exercise correctly. We give them emotional encouragement and support, accountability, and the rest of it. And we are pretty good at it too. We have worked with thousands of men and women of all ages and abilities and lifestyles and help them build a body they can be proud of. And guess what? We can probably do the same for you. Our service is not for everyone, but if you want to find out if it is right for you, if there is a fit, head on over to muscleforlife.show slash VIP. That is muscleforlife.show slash VIP and book your free consultation call now. Where do you want to go from here? You mentioned a little mini cut, but what do you see in the next like year

or even three years do you have some some goals that you've set for yourself the goal is really to gain more muscle yeah i just i just want to be really strong as i age that's really the goal and healthy also right so um of course there's a little vanity in there too so i'd like to be a little bit more cut still. But so we're, you know, doing the balance between, you know, switching back and forth to achieve the goal. But that's it. Yeah, the body fat trap. It's funny.

I've joked that the problem with getting really lean is then anything but that always feels a little bit too fat. Yeah, I hear you. You just have to know that that's the psychology of it. And everybody wants to learn it for themselves. And I know you're going to go learn it for yourself. But just know, and as long as you're ready for it, and you can laugh about it, you're okay. As long as you don't take it too seriously. But everyone gets afflicted with the curse of getting very lean if they

do it. Yeah. I'm already there. I'm already there for sure. For sure. Because now, now I'm not saying I, I, you know, I'm just saying if I'm not at where I was at my leanest at the end of the first cut, then it's sort of like, eh, it yet it's all, it's all up here because you know, I, yeah, I just, it only matters. Like it's, it's funny because if you, if you were to like show a picture of you at that point, and then a picture of you now to somebody else, they might be able to, if you were to like, tell them, no, no, really look like if you look right here, they would be like, oh yeah, yeah, I guess I can see what you're saying. But you know know, so it's really kind of just us staring at the minutia of our physique. But again, as long as you can laugh about it, I think there's nothing wrong with it.

So, yeah, so maybe I really like the muscle definition without being crazy about it. So, you know, like it or not, if you have a little bit less body fat, you've got more, more definition. And also people, you know, you have to find, you have to find the look that you like. I find that there's, there's probably a bit more variation in that with women than men. Many men tend to just kind of go in the direction of the bigger and leaner I am, the better period. I can never be big and lean and lean enough. However, many women, they like, they like how they look at, let's say 18 to 20% body fat. That's what they like. They like that look. And then other women though, they actually prefer how they look at 23 to 25% body fat. And so it's just also learning your preferences and then not having to, quote unquote, feel bad.

That's your preference. There's nothing wrong with that versus, again, so long as we're in the spectrum of what's healthy, it's finding what's aesthetically pleasing to you and just do that. Yeah. What's been refreshing for me as well is my coach gets it. Her journey was similar to mine as well. And so that, that was really nice as well. Yeah. Yeah. It, um, it's something that I just think of again, a lot of, a lot of emails that I've answered over the years and, you know, I've heard from many, many women and, and, you know, I, I always have done my best to try to empathize,

but it's different when somebody has gone through it and you can really speak to the person. I mean, it's, you can tell them the things that they are thinking because you were there, you were that person. So I understand that because when I wrote bigger, leaner, stronger, initially, I was writing that book to like a 17 year old me. I mean, that was really, that was the person I was writing to. And there just happened to be a lot of other 17 year old me's that had the same, you know, inner monologue and had had the same problems and blah, blah, blah. And so it's really great to get somebody who understands you. I wanted to I wanted to follow up on the thyroid situation specifically,

because that is often used as a as or people are, again, they are convinced that because of that, there's simply no hope. So can you just share with people how you've been able to deal with that situation? Clearly, it's not getting in the way of your fitness. And I mean, I just wanted to follow up on that because that's a big one. There are a lot of women in particular who have been convinced that if they actually have a thyroid condition or maybe they have a thyroid condition and because of that, their metabolism is now so depressed that there's no hope. I've probably had hyperthyroidism for 15 years now. And they removed half my thyroid about 15 years ago. So maybe a little bit longer than that, maybe more like 20 years.

And 15 years ago, they would have removed half my thyroid. And I mean, you need, certainly you can't live without your thyroid hormone. So it has to be regulated. But once your numbers are stable, that's no longer a reason for being stuck, so to speak. And in my view, it's two simple things. You're eating too much, you're not moving enough. It's as simple as that. And it sounds like the usual calories in, calories out, and all that good stuff like everybody else says, but there's a lot more to it than that.

But your recipe is simple. And like I say, I still don't fully understand why it works, Mike. And to be honest, you were also a reason why. I looked at your original picture that you were showing of you as, I don't know how old you were, maybe 17 at the time. Yeah, I was probably 18. I think I was like, max 19, lifted weights for a year or something. Yeah. But anyway, and then you showed another picture where you were seven years in, and you thought, you know what, I'm eating right. I'm at the gym seven days a week. I should be more cut than this. And then, you know, your ultimate picture of where you are totally ripped. And I thought, okay, here's a guy who's done the research and the science and you did the deep dive. And kudos to you because that's a lot of work.

I know because as much as I've read everything and tried everything, I didn't do the scientific, you know, deep dive like you did. But I tried everything. And you found the key. And I thank you for that. Oh, I'm flattered. I mean, and also I'm really a desk, which I always try to give credit to the people who I learned from. I mean, even the scientists who did the research.

And then I was just the guy who came along and started to read it and say, hey, well, this makes sense. And why isn't there a book like Bigger, Leaner, Stronger? Why isn't somebody just put this information into an easy to understand book? And let's get rid of all of the marketing puffery. And let's not claim this is something that it's not or invent some pseudoscientific new breakthrough angle, which unfortunately... Another gimmick. Exactly. And unfortunately, that if we're talking about book publishing, or just let's just say information publishing in any format, that is what the gatekeepers, so to speak, are looking for. If you don't have the one liner that promises something new and breakthrough, the one weird trick or the one thing they are not telling you, it's hard to get any of the gatekeepers to give you any time. And that's one of the reasons why I self-published the book in the beginning was

I knew that and I didn't want to argue with agents or I just wanted to put something out there that I thought would fill a need. And so I'm flattered, But again, I have to give credit to to many other men and women who did a lot more hard work. And I was the kind of the curator, I'm personally thanking you for that because it's changed my life. I've, you know, everything, and I'm just going to say this, your company is refreshing. Customer service doesn't exist anymore and you guys are right up there. There is no one like you guys out there. I'm talking about fitness or otherwise. Anything you claim to do, you do. When you said 100% money back guarantee, I tried your Genesis. It makes me sick to my stomach. There's something in it, an ingredient, and I tried it several times. I can't take it. I had bought two. They were on sale. You guys gave me my money

back. No questions asked. You know, you asked why, because you want to learn from it. But I just love your ethics and I commend you for it. Oh, thank you. And I'm glad to hear that you have put our money back guarantee policy to the test because it is that simple. Well, it is. And that's just, I just don't understand why more businesses, and we've talked about, we could go off on a whole tangent on businesses. I just don't understand why more businesses don't really go out of their way to deliver excellent customer service. It's such a weird phenomenon. I agree with you. I'm not a big buyer of things in general. So even as an infrequent consumer, other than like random little things I just need off of Amazon, but in terms of other businesses, and so even as an infrequent consumer, I could probably rattle off five or 10 just kind of weird interactions I've

had with businesses where it almost seems like their policy is to err on the side of treating their customers badly. If you're not sure what to do, just treat your customer badly and assume they're trying to rip you off and assume they're full of shit. And it's really, really strange. Now, of course, I'm not saying that's most businesses, but I do think you're probably right that there are a lot of businesses out there that just do not prioritize customer service. It's a thing of the past. Customer service is a thing of the past. And people hide behind the internet. They hide behind voicemail. If you try and call, you guys have been, your staff is amazing. And I'm not just talking about

my coach. Cody's been wonderful. Everyone that I dealt with, whether it was me wanting to add something because I forgot something to an order that I made online. And I thought, oh, geez, I forgot to order this. So I picked up the phone, hoping that I could get it before you guys got it out the door. And, you know, it appears like everybody who works for you has been through the program, which is wonderful. And, you know, it appears like everybody who works for you has been through the program, which is wonderful. Yeah. And, you know, it's just like talking to a friend when you reach out to you guys. And I'm not saying that for the heck of it.

I don't endorse anything. Seriously, I don't endorse much of anything. So for me to take the time to do this, it's because you've made a real difference. You've made a real, real difference. I really appreciate it. And that's, that's from, from the beginning, that's been our intention with customer experience with customer service in particular, and been our policy is go out of our way, make our customers happy almost to whatever it takes. Now, could there be a scenario where somebody is making really inappropriate demands? Okay, sure. Has that ever even happened? I don't even know. I can't think of any time that that

has happened. But aside from that, it's just do whatever it takes to make them happy and to exceed their expectations and to create that effect where they're like, wow, that was actually really good customer service. I was not expecting that. No, and actually, I, you know, I called back to thank Cody at some point to just say, you know what, thanks, man, for, you know, giving me the opportunity. And just, I mean, he didn't nudge me. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying he helped me to see that there was something different here. And that's been, it's been wonderful. And, you know, for those that are probably saying, Oh, you know, she's probably getting a kickback or whatever, or you never know, right? You never know, Mike, right? So, you know, and in your book, a lot of people will say, well, you know, do you have to take supplements? So when I started, I was zero supplements, because I thought, when you're starting any kind of a journey,

the weight's going to start to fall off as soon as you start to do something different. So I kind of waited until things started to slow down a little bit because the numbers start to slow down after a while. So then I started the Phoenix and I'm not taking it now. I took it for my first cut and love your protein powders. Love your, you know, the variety is just amazing. However, I have a question for you. When are you going to open a warehouse in Canada? It is a good question.

I know. So we just opened up Amazon UK so we can serve UK. Now, Canada is number two on that. That was number one simply by demand. And then Canada is number two. And the only reason we haven't done it yet is the logistics. Unfortunately, it was a bandwidth problem, right? There's about 80 of us, half full-time, half part-time. And we've just had to prioritize. I mean, it's good to have an abundance of opportunities, of course, but we've had to take things one at a time, even though I'm the kind of person who just

wants to do everything all at once, but that gets messy. And so only in the last six months or so have we really started to focus on international and getting our international markets set up properly. When we get off this call, I'm actually going to call somebody. And because I know that, okay, good. Amazon, Amazon, UK, we're manufacturing our products over in the UK as well, which we may need to do in Canada, which just adds another layer of logistics. But because Canada's closer, obviously, I'm not sure that that was the case. I remember there was a problem about, there was a problem with shipping things from here to Canada. And when you start figuring out the economics of it all the way to the end, there was a problem, but it certainly can and it will be done. I just, I don't have an immediate

answer. I'll look forward to it. I'll look forward to it as well. I mean, that's a straightforward plan for expansion. That's like, you know, we're not in any retail locations. And yes, there's a big opportunity in retail. However, there also are big risks in retail. Retail is very expensive, especially if you want to do it right. And it is not growing nearly as quickly as the e-commerce sector. And so to continue to expand Legion, I'm much more interested in just going after international distribution and international just e-commerce, getting it set up so people in Canada can get inexpensive shipping, fast shipping. And elsewhere, we have Australia is another place that would make a lot of sense. And so that is our current plan is maybe dabble in retail, but at a small level,

independent stores. But I'd rather spend my resources on e-commerce in different areas in the world where there is enough demand to warrant it. Of course. Yeah. For us, I mean, one of the things is really, you know, the exchange and the duty as well. And the time to get stuff too. So what I do is I, you know, you guys are on sale, I stock up and it's good. That's what a lot of, I know that's what a lot of international, and it's a great idea's what a lot of, I know that's what a lot of international, it's a great idea. Like a lot of, I know that we have quite a few customers international they'll wait for. So they know that our biggest and best sale of the year is our Black Friday sale. We always do a lot of discounting. And so some people, they order their entire year's worth of supplements that they want from us, you know, and save a lot of money. And then

sometimes they get hit with some hit with some duties or whatever, but when it all shakes out, it's reasonable and that's it. Exactly. So I didn't mean to put you on the spot. No, no, no. It's a good question. I wish I could say that it's only a month away, but it is on the list. We're totally aware of it. We do get a fair amount of website traffic from Canada. I sell a fair amount of website traffic from canada i sell a fair number of books in canada there's certainly enough demand it was just uh uk because then by getting set up property in the uk we can also serve europe and so when you combine uk and

europe that that definitely was like number one in terms of quantity of demand yeah yeah and and one other comment just for people listening who um are in business or want to get into business. So there are a few reasons why Legion is doing well, but this customer service, this emphasis on customer service is one of them. And we see it a lot in word of mouth. We see it a lot in returning customers. We see it a lot in customer lifetime value.

So if you were to look underneath the hood of of legion some of these metrics are much much better than industry average and that's partly because i would say our products are much better than just industry average however again customer service is much better than than industry average and so just just for for anyone listening to be specific. So last year, we grew the top line about 36% or 37%. Legion grew sales about 36%, 37% last year. And I know that... So I've heard from several manufacturers. I've heard from an insurance company who works with a lot of sports nutrition companies that a lot of my competitors, a lot of people in sports nutrition over the last couple of years have not seen much growth,

have been flat, or even in many cases down a little bit. And so there are several reasons why we are the exception, but customer service is one of them. So even if my competitors are listening, treat your customers better and your business might do better. Even if it's not in my own personal interest to give you this advice, it's just good business. It is, but it's a dying art, right? You have to be willing to invest in it though, too. You have to be willing to, it costs money to make customers happy, to put the whole machine in place. And when, when the people are looking at the spreadsheets and they're looking at how to maximize profit and they see numbers in customer, you know, whatever,

just delete that. And yeah, it's a mistake. It's a mistake, but, but I have to say that everything you've promised everything. And then. You've delivered on everything. Well, I'm glad to hear that because that's the intention. That's how I think business should be done. Everyone makes mistakes, but you should always do whatever you can exactly to deliver what you promise. I totally agree. And you have. So kudos to you and your company for that. That's amazing. Yeah, thank you. Well, and thank you for the support. And thank you for doing this interview. I have taken up about an hour of your time now. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you wanted to say or that I should have asked?

I don't think so. I'm just hoping that if I can inspire one person, if I can just inspire one person, that's my goal. That was the whole goal of doing this. It's not for, hey, look at me. I did this. But if I can do this at my age with the elements I have with the, you know, hypothyroidism and. The history of getting to that point also where you were about to give up. I mean, that's powerful because there are a lot of people out there who feel the exact same way.

And why was it going to make a difference? And people will probably say, oh, I can't afford coaching. Or, well, if I look at all the money I've spent over the years on pills and magazines and books and products and promises and just the life-sucking energy. If I wish I had known this years ago, I would have saved myself. Even with doing coaching, I would have saved myself thousands and thousands of dollars. So there's a way. There's a way. You have three levels of coaching.

Something will fit for somebody. You've got some for novices to experts. So you know what? buddy. You've got some for novices to experts. So you know what? All I can say is hopefully, if anybody will take this as a, if I can do it, you can do it. It sounds so cliche, but it's true. And you know what, Mike? It's been life-changing for me. It just has. So thank you. Again, I'm flattered. And I mean, this is why I got in. This is why I wrote a book 10 years ago and then just kept on going to the next thing because I kept on getting cool feedback from people saying, hey, this is really useful. You should do more. All right, I'll do what things in the past. And it's also worth considering there was, I'm sure, a lot of frustration and upset throughout the years of trying things, failing, trying things, failing. And what would it have been worth to you to not have to experience

that or to just put an end to that alone? And I know what this is like personally, where once you've put the pieces together and you understand how this little machine works, you then you just know, oh, I'm never going to worry about my body weight or my body composition ever again. Like all of that is done. I'm never going to be up at night stewing over. Yeah. Finding another book, finding another solution, trying to, you know. Yeah, or thinking, maybe it's me. Maybe the common denominator of all these failures is me.

Maybe it's just me, which isn't even an irrational thought. It's not true in this case, but. Yeah, but I mean, you get to the point where you say, well, maybe it's just not possible. You know, maybe the combination of me and life and whatever, it's just not going to happen. And yet I was ready to give it another shot. There was just something in my gut that said, there's something different here. And I was pleasantly surprised, amazed, to be honest. So I hope, Mike, that I know I'm not the only person who has said these wonderful things about you. And I'm not saying it person who has said these wonderful things about you.

And I'm not saying it to flatter you. I'm just honored to have the opportunity to thank you personally. I just hope that you don't get blasé with how your work really makes a difference. Yeah, I appreciate that. And it's good for me because a lot of my work is, you know, I kind of sit here in my little cave and I work on the next article or the next book. With Legion, there are a lot of mundane, routine things that you got to do. Even though, again, it's just a nice reminder that I'm not only doing this for my own entertainment or even worse would be just

money. I mean, that's funny. When I was younger, thinking about what was I going to do, the idea of just having a business and kind of like selling widgets for a profit, even though I actually have more appreciation now for, for building a business. And, but, but at the time that concept was so uninteresting to me. So it's nice to just to have the reminder that again, this is, yes, this is, this is really why I'm doing what I'm doing more than any of the other maybe rewards that it provides. Well, it's life altering. So thank you. Absolutely. Well, thanks again for taking a shot on me and on Legion and for your continued support.

And of course, keep up the good work. You too. You as well. I'm working on the next book. What's the next, I'm working on the next book. What's, what's, what's the next book? So, um, go, I haven't talked much about it because it's probably not going to be ready until next year, but the concept is a daily reader style, something different because in thinking about, okay, so I have, I have bigger, leaner, stronger for men, really the target market is probably men aged 18 to 45.

It's really like kind of the target market for that book. And Thinner, Leaner, Stronger is kind of the female version of that. Now I have Muscle for Life, which is perfect for, let's just say, 45 plus. Even people younger, for sure. But I really wanted to really make that specific, kind of market it specifically to 45 plus men and women. And so I have that, I have a cookbook, I could do more cookbooks, which I'm interested in doing. So just thinking about what do I want to do? I thought it'd be interesting to do a daily reader format. So one short chapter per day, do a mixture of educational and inspirational content or motivational content and break

that educational content down into different categories or buckets. Make sure that there's some diet stuff in there, some exercise stuff in there, some body composition stuff in there, some kind of just general health and fitness supplementation. And then the mindset is the other category, right? So like educational, it's 50% educational and then 50% mindset inspirational slash motivational, basically. So that's the basic concept. So I'm in the beta reading phase. So I'm working with some beta readers, getting feedback as I go through it. It's kind of turning into the third draft. And then I may do one more round of that. I probably will. And then give it off to work with some editors to get it ready for publication. And this one, I'm going to self-publish Muscle for Life. I did that with Simon and Schuster. This one, I'm going to self-publish Muscle for Life. I did that with Simon and Schuster. This one I'm going to

self-publish because I'm going to do a workout journal to go with Muscle for Life with Simon and Schuster. And they don't like to do too many things at the same time, but I'm tentatively excited about it in that I'm just very curious with the workflow and when the book comes out or when it's closer, I'll kind of get into some of the details for anybody who's interested about how I went about doing it. I'm just curious to see how the book is received because I've done a lot of work to try to engineer the content to be maximally impactful, pre-test a lot of things with social media and do a more extensive beta reading phase with the goal of writing a book that is going to generate a lot of highlights. When people are reading, there's a lot of stuff where they're like, I like that. That's useful. I like that. Because ultimately, what makes a book do well ultimately is word of mouth. You can have a great title and you can have a great cover. word of mouth. You can have a great title and you can have a great cover. And if you have a following, you can get enough reviews to get momentum, but to sustain momentum and sell well,

which for me at this point, it's not about the money that the money of selling the books doesn't really matter. But if I'm going to write a book, I want it to do as well as possible, as many people read as possible. So to sell well, especially over a long period of time, you have to generate word of mouth for every reader. They have to get you, let's say at least another reader, or, you know, if you can get that to two or whatever for a period, it becomes exponential. So it's also kind of an experiment. I guess I've tried to kind of apply the scientific method to like writing this book and see if my hypothesis bears fruit in the end. And because if it does do well enough, it doesn't have to like explode and become a

number one New York Times bestseller. But if it does well enough, it's a format that I like. I think it's interesting. The essay format, it's just a little bit different than all the writing I've done for many years. So, you know, it's kind of new and interesting in that way. And it's something that I could continue indefinitely so long as I have new things to say. And that short kind of essay daily reader format is, is a perfectly, I mean, there are, there are writers who only wrote, that's all they ever did was write essays because that's what they

liked to do. And not that I would never go back to a long form book, but anyways, that that's me ramp me rambling about this book, but I look forward to it. Thank you. Uh, work, working away on it. But, uh, anyway, again, if, if there's nothing else that you would like to share, then we can just wrap up. No, I think that's it for me, but, uh, thank you again. It's been an amazing journey. Yeah, absolutely. No, I, I love it.

And for anybody listening who's gone through it, you understand how meaningful it really is. So it's, it's cool. It really is cool. So thanks again, Liz. Keep up the good work and let me know. Yeah, you can always reach out to me. I'll give you an email address. I'll put it in the chat here when we're done. You can reach out to me if you ever want to for any reason. Sounds good. Thank you so much. Well, I hope you liked this episode. I hope you found it helpful. And if you did, subscribe to the show because it makes sure that you don't miss new episodes.

And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you. And if you didn't like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email. Mike at muscle for life dot com muscle for life dot com. And let me know what I could do better or just what your thoughts are about maybe what you'd like to see me do in the future. I read everything myself.

I'm always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode and I hope to hear from you soon.