Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - How Maariana Used Bigger Leaner Stronger to Fit Into Her College Clothes Again

Episode Date: October 18, 2019

In this episode, I interview Maariana, who used my Bigger Leaner Stronger program to radically transform not only her physique, but also her career and life. Before finding her way to me and my work through her boyfriend, she had fallen into just about every health and fitness trap out there—excessive cardio, very lightweight lifting, inadequate protein intake, and on and on. Despite working at it very hard for very long, the best she was able to accomplish was a “skinny fat” physique that left her constantly hungry, tired, and frustrated. Bigger Leaner Stronger changed all of that. Through the magical wonders of heavy compound weightlifting, proper meal planning, and effective supplementation, Maariana has gained a bunch of muscle and strength while still being able to fit into the types of clothes she was wearing in college. What’s more, Maariana is a professional opera singer and Bigger Leaner Stronger has made quite a difference there, too. She’s more confident and less nervous on stage and has even noticed improvements in her singing capabilities. So, in part one of this interview, Maariana and I discuss her story and some of the key lessons she learned along the way, including how she dealt with gym intimidation, how to travel the world without gaining weight, and much more. Now, why part one of two? As you’ll find out, as we were wrapping up our interview, Maariana shared a whopper: soon after starting Bigger Leaner Stronger, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. I knew this going into the interview but as she hadn’t mentioned it up until that point, I thought she didn’t want to talk about it. Well, it turns out she did, and it also turns out she has a neurobiology degree and abiding passion for self-improvement, and so we then went on to have a whole new discussion along those lines. All in all, our conversation clocked in at around 3 hours, so I figured it’s probably better to break it up into two parts. So, here’s part one, and part two will follow in the next week or so. 6:09 - What was your diet and fitness like before Bigger Leaner Stronger? 17:46 - What were your numbers before and after Bigger Leaner Stronger? 46:41 - Was it intimidating for you to start weightlifting? 36:39 - How do you fit in exercise when you travel? 43:42 - Is Triumph for men and women? 48:22 - How long did it take you to get from 30% body fat to 20% body fat? 54:50 - Did you run into any hunger problems while cutting? Mentioned on The Show: Shop Legion supplements: https://legionathletics.com/shop/ Maariana's website: https://maariana.com/ Maariana's app: https://fulfillapp.com/ Want to get my best advice on how to gain muscle and strength and lose fat faster? Sign up for my free newsletter! Click here: https://www.legionathletics.com/signup/

Hey, Mike here. And if you like what I'm doing on the podcast and elsewhere, and if you want to help me help more people get into the best shape of their lives, please consider checking out my VIP one-on-one coaching service where we can help you get in the best shape of your life. My team and I have helped people of all ages, circumstances, and needs. So no matter how complicated or maybe even hopeless you might think your situation is, we will figure it out and we will get you results. Every diet and every training program is 100% custom. We provide daily workout logs and do weekly accountability calls. Our clients get priority email service and discounts on supplements and other products, and the list of benefits goes on and on. So to learn more, head over to www.legionathletics.com slash coaching. That's legionathletics.com slash coaching and schedule your free consultation call. I should also mention that there is usually a wait list and new slots do fill up very quickly. So do not wait. If this sounds even remotely interesting to you, go ahead and schedule your call now. Again, that URL is legionathletics.com slash coaching. Hello, my people. I am Mike Matthews. This is Muscle for

Life and welcome, welcome. In this episode, I interview Mariana, who used my Bigger Leaner Stronger program to radically transform not just her physique, but also her career and life and health. And yes, Bigger Leaner Stronger, not Thinner Leaner Stronger. Funny enough, she found me in Bigger Leaner Stronger via her boyfriend who was doing Bigger Leaner Stronger and who said, hey, just do this with me. She didn't even know there was a Thinner Leaner Stronger and I don't think he did either. And so she just jumped right into it. Now, before that though, before she first got together with her boyfriend, which funny enough, one of the reasons why he caught her eyes because he is in good shape. And one of the reasons why he is in good shape is because he was doing bigger

than you're stronger. But before that, Mariana had fallen into just about every health and fitness pitfall out there. Excessive cardio, very lightweight lifting, inadequate protein intake, inadequate calorie intake, and on and on. And despite working pretty hard for pretty long, the best she was able to accomplish was a skinny fat type of physique that kept her constantly hungry and tired and frustrated. Well, bigger, leaner, stronger changed all of that. Of course it did, because through the magical wonders of heavy compound weightlifting, proper meal planning, and effective supplementation. Mariana was able to gain a bunch of muscle and gain a bunch of strength while still being able to fit into the types of clothes she was wearing in college, which is always fun.

And what's more, Mariana is a professional opera singer and getting fit has made quite a difference there too. She was surprised, delighted to experience that because now she's more confident and less nervous on stage and has even noticed improvements in her ability to sing, which is how she makes her living. So that's cool too. So in this first part of the interview, Mariana and I are going to discuss her story and some of the key lessons that she learned along the way, including how to deal with gym intimidation, how to travel the world while she was working without gaining weight and without losing muscle and much more. Now, why is this part one of part two? I don't normally do this. Well, the reason is, as you're going to hear at the end of this interview, as we were wrapping

it up, Mariana shared that soon after she started Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. Now, I actually knew this going into the interview, but she hadn't mentioned it up until that point. So I thought that she didn't want to talk about it. And I didn't, obviously I wasn't going to bring it up myself if she didn't want to talk about it. And it turns out she did want to talk about it. And it also turns out that she has a neurobiology degree and an abiding interest in a passion for really self-improvement. So then we went on to have a whole new discussion along those lines. And all in all, it was like a three-hour discussion. It was like a Joe Rogan podcast. And so I figured it's probably better to release this in two parts. So here's part one,

and part two will follow in the next week or so. Thanks for taking the time to come on my podcast and share your story. My pleasure, Mike. This is really exciting. I'm excited to do this. Yeah, absolutely. I like these episodes. They're a nice change from my monologuing or technical interviews. These ones are fun because, I mean, this is what it really comes down to for me is like, what impact am I having in other people's lives? It's satisfying for me.

So I get to just sit back and bask in your success. No, you're definitely part of it. And I mean, as we'll find out, this was actually weightlifting. It didn't just give me the most fantastic body that I've ever wanted, but it helped me in so many other areas of my life that I never knew would happen. So I'm excited to share this with other people. Awesome. Yeah, we'll definitely get to that. So I think a good place to start, how I like kind of start these discussions is maybe just a quick before and after snapshot of where you're at before you found me in my work and there's the body composition stuff, but then maybe there are also the other, the things that now that have changed for the better

outside of just your fitness. I'm sure you look back and could be, you know, mood, it could be motivation, productivity, whatever. So kind of where you're at before and now where you're at. And then I think just for the sake of contrast, and then we can rewind back to the beginning and go forward from there. Sure. That sounds great. So we can just listen to your myths about body building for women because basically listening to that podcast, I did everything within that. So it's super frustrating because I did everything that you're supposed to do. The 15 reps, the flailing, I like calling it flailing when you're in the gym and you're just like jumping around

and you're moving the whole time and you're trying to burn as many calories as possible. And I had to do these crazy long workouts. I was doing weight training. And then I was running on top of it. So it was just super frustrating, because anytime I got down in weight to where I wanted what I wanted to look like, my appetite was absolutely crazy. So I would eat and like gain everything back. And it was just super frustrating. I was always active. So I was like a size 8'10". But being an opera singer, you know, I want to walk into a room and bam, like people notice

me and I wanted this sculpted body. And I was putting in the time, I was putting in the work and it wasn't happening. And it was so frustrating. And so I tried to add more cardio and then I was more exhausted and more hungry. And it was just for years and years. And I mean, I love your book because it's so science-based. And before that, you're just trying to find any information on any sort of change that you can make to fix it. When I was doing, you know, I was supposed to do the low fat diet, definitely wasn't eating enough protein because women didn't need protein. And also I

didn't want to bulk up. So it was just, it was all of that mixed together, which was super frustrating. So how I found you was I was singing in Abu Dhabi and I was singing the role of Carmen. And I happened to have a friend in from the UK and I said, do you know anyone from Abu Dhabi? And she said, yes, I live in New York City. So I ended up contacting this person because I kind of, I didn't even know Abu Dhabi was a real place. I wanted to know about the culture just because I was representing an opera company so that I would be very professional while I was over there. And it was December in New York. And I said, well, I have a day off. So do you want to head to the beach? And so this lovely gentleman showed up in the lobby of the Four Seasons and I was like, okay, he has the body I want.

That's what's going on. I want the girl version of that. And then we went to the beach and he took his shirt off and had a six pack. And I'm like, okay, so this is possible. And I didn't really meant, yeah, just met him. So I didn't want to be completely obnoxious about his fitness program. But luckily we hit it off. And I'm just

kind of that person that always is like, I'm putting myself out there. I love meeting new people. We ended up meeting in between performances. I was singing next in Dubai for royalty there, which was kind of fun. But so he wanted to show me around Abu Dhabi. And as he's showing me around, I'm like, so, hey, how many ab exercises do you do to get that six pack? And he said, I do two a week. And then I knew I was doing everything completely incorrectly. Yeah. So it just, it was so funny. We started talking sort of more and more about this and he had mentioned your book. And so I was thinking, okay, you know, this is probably something I can do. And so I ended up reading BLS partly because that's the book that he recommended. And so he actually came to New York

and I'm like, all right, let's work out together. Cause I had no idea. I don't know how to do a deadlift or a squat. I'd been doing, you know, lunges and girly exercises and 800 crunches. So it was really funny because the first day at the gym, I know that you're into sort of cognitive biases. So I was having this cognitive dissonance. Yeah. Like, wait a minute, what am I doing? What's going on? Why are we standing next to this weird cage? I don't like it. And also just that feeling of because I'm a big girl in a way, I'm five, eight, I look like I'm a Norwegian, I look like a Viking. And the last thing I need is to be any bigger. And then also I wear really big costumes on stage. So I really was very worried about this. So I actually have a

cognitive sciences degree. It's one of my college degrees. And so it was good for me because I could be like, okay, so you're experiencing cognitive dissonance right now. You know how to overcome this, which is to look at the evidence that's right in front of you and that desire to have that best body over the desire to stick with your beliefs, which is always sort of a tricky thing to do. So I started working out doing the three to six reps. And it was amazing, you know, those beginner gains. For women, it's a little difficult, as you know. Luckily for me, since I've been doing the weight training, I was able to hop into the compound exercises. And I loved it. It was so fantastic. And like the mental aspect of it as well, I really loved because I had been running all this time before. I'm not

a natural runner. And the thing is, when you run, like your mind kind of wanders. And sometimes it doesn't, you know, think about the greatest stuff while you're running. Well, when you're at weight training, and you have to pick up 225 pounds, you can't think of anything else. And I love that mental break. I used to get that. I was an equestrian. I used to get that when you were riding on a horse. You can't think about anything else. You'll get hurt. I know you love Chassette Mahalia's theory of flow. And I've always thought that his theory of flow needed bodily harm added to it. Because if you know, like you're in danger, you're going to focus. So when you have weight on your back, you're like, okay. Like I'm sure F1 drivers experience it to the nth degree. Like lose it for two seconds,

then you just fly into a wall and die. Exactly. Yeah, there you go. I did a venting, which a lot of people don't know. It's a combination of different things. But one of the things you do is cross country jumping where you're jumping over walls and you're jumping over these structures that are fixed. And so you have to get over them or you're going to get hurt. And it's an absolute blast. But you are in the zone completely. So I really liked that with the weight training and that we'll talk more about where my journey

goes after that. But that was just something that I really appreciated. So I think it has a almost like a therapeutic value, right? Oh, without a doubt, you know, getting out the adrenaline. And that was the most fantastic thing is it lent itself to my opera singing, which is crazy, because the opera world, they don't like working out, they don't like weight training, the conventional idea is that it's going to tighten your body. So you want to stay loose, which is ridiculous because no, it's if you're using the wrong muscles, like that's bad singing. Your strength is your strength. It's not tightness.

I mean, not moving your body is going to result in tightness. Just sitting, sitting in a chair all day or at a computer or whatever, that's what's going to make you tight. I can't tell you how many singers and teachers were like, oh, you should stop your weight training. And I was like, ugh. And that was even before I was doing your weight training. That's funny. Yeah. Oh my gosh, it's so ridiculous. Sometimes people also, they mistake muscle tone for muscle tightness. I've had that with massage therapists that would just remark, like, oh, this feels really tight. This must be uncomfortable.

I'm like, no, actually, it feels fine to me. It's wonderful. Especially if I, well, I mean, having a program where I'm training, I mean, everything in my body is getting hit one way or another a couple times a week. Yeah, everything is always kind of pumped a little bit, I guess you could say. And that's the thing. It's pumped. It's ready to go. It's excited. Like it's such a ridiculous thing. But it's not tightness and in like a restricted sense where now all of a sudden I can't even touch my toes anymore or something, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, if a singer isn't breathing, then that's what's going to cause tightness and not your body actually working together. So for my singing, it was so amazing because, you know, you're working your nervous system. So I remember my first big audition after I started doing your program. And there was like this, like sixth, seventh and eighth year that I could click into and keep control of my body, especially when the nerves hit in, that was so fantastic. And it was just like so exhilarating. Plus, like my whole body and I mean, my abs are super strong now from doing like deadlifts and squats, obviously. Now, now I understand the concept of strong abs. But also my body working together doing deadlifts and squats, and how much then your body is just completely

primed when you need it, when the pressure's on. It just, it really, it's amazing, like the difference of my singing. I'm a dramatic mezzo, and it gave me, I'm the darker voice, it gave me more of a darker tone to my voice, which is great. The funny thing is, as a dramatic mezzo, we're supposed to be the big girls. So like sopranos are supposed to be, well, sopranos can be anything. But dramatic mezzo, like we're the Wagnerian singer walking out with the horns on her head. Like you expect us to be super big. And so it's so funny now because I walk into an audition, they don't know what's going on. And then I sing, you know, a big, tough Wagnerian aria, and they are completely confused. And it's wonderful because, you know, I'm the shining example of no, that's not right. And that, you know, you do need

to stay in shape and that it will help. And I think it's crazy because a lot of my costumes are like 40, 50, 60 pounds. So carrying them around the stage now is a piece of cake. I did an opera this past fall where I wore a hat that was 15 pounds and got its own Instagram post because it's the craziest hat. It's awesome. But I'm so glad that it was not an issue. It was just completely not an issue because of how strong and coordinated my body was. So it had all these extra bonus with my singing that was so phenomenal. So I really enjoyed that. Yeah, I could totally see that was so phenomenal. So I really enjoyed that. Yeah, I could totally see that just by having less attention on the effort that it takes to

even move around. I'm sure that allows you to focus more on your singing and tap into more of your ability there. Yeah. And it's just when you're wearing these ridiculous costumes with corsets and everything, it's so different from our normal clothing that it does feel so awkward. And luckily I can take that away because that will again, cause sort of that tightness because you're uncomfortable. So here I am like, it's not a big deal now. I just have that extra strength that just makes it a piece of cake. So, so that's lovely. A lot of good things that came about with it that I really do. And then also my body looks fantastic. And it's so funny now.

I go to the gym and women come up to me and they're like, okay, your arms are amazing. What are you doing? And it's so frustrating because I'll start saying, well, I'm lifting 50 pound dumbbells or 55 pound dumbbells. And I see their eyes like glaze over. It's so hard to get past that. The idea of bulking and the idea of, I love that, toning. That's like my favorite toning. Yeah. Sculpting. Sculpting, exactly. And then also,

the funny thing is, in between those sets, I'm standing there resting and I need that rest. And it's just such a different concept of when you're going to the gym. It's so funny because I walk around New York a lot, obviously. You look into these studios and again, it's so funny, because I walk around New York a lot, obviously, like you look into these studios. And again, it's all of this like flailing, flailing, flailing of I'm trying to burn calories, and I can see that they're never getting anywhere. And I mean, I was lucky that my boyfriend knew, obviously read your book, and was like, when you do all that cardio, you're actually breaking down all the muscle that you're building. which now that I understand the cycle of sort of what I was trying to do before and how I could never get ahead, it's so nice to have that information now and to actually feel, I know you hear this all the time, but to feel in control of my body, to actually do what I want to do and to sculpt it the way that I want to sculpt it. So there's the effect of sculpting, the actual sculpting isn't picking up the three pound weight and, you know, sort of hoping for the best. So no, so it's absolutely fantastic. Yeah. In terms of numbers. So where did you start and then where are you at now and how long are you now maintaining what you have achieved, you know, several months ago?

Because I often get, the reason why I'm asking you is whenever I post people's transformations or stories on Instagram, or often get people asking, even reaching out from podcasts like these, oh, how long did it take? If it's not very specific. So that's why I'm asking for the exact details because I know that there are people who are wondering like, okay, so where did you start and how long did it take you to get to what exactly? I think for me, the way that I think about it is exercise is a lifestyle. So I never was focused on I mean, yeah, you want to see, you know, some numbers increase and some numbers decrease. But for me, it was like, okay, so this is my new path that I'm on. So I started it's so funny,

looking back, like what your weights are now, because they're your warm up. You remember, like how much putting 35s on for doing squats, 35s on each side was like so difficult. So I started out, oh, geez, let's see. So I was about 30% body fat, which was super frustrating. I'm so glad it's down out about 20. And yes. So I started, so shoulders, I was using around like 10 pounds. Now I do 35 pound dumbbells. I do shoulder press. That is my nemesis. It's everybody's nemesis. Oh my gosh, it's so annoying.

Unless you have tiny little stump arms, then you're the one who always likes pressing. Since you can't see me, I have incredibly long, elegant arms. We're just going to say that. I have long arms. I say they're monkey arms. My arms are... I'm a girl. So, yes, they're my dancer arms. So, that now I have 25 pounds. That literally started with the bar. Yeah. I was surprised to hear that you started with bigger leaner strong. There are a number of differences between the books, especially the new third editions. But in the program, the two biggest differences as far as the workout programs go is one, the men's program has more emphasis on the upper body, not then the lower body, just has more emphasis on the upper body than the women's. Because the fact is, for most guys, it's going to take them a lot longer. It's going to take a lot more work to get the chest and the shoulders and the

arms that they want than it is the legs. The legs respond a lot better, generally speaking. They're big muscles. You can move a lot of weight, but take the pecs or smaller muscles. They usually come with very little development for most guys starting out and are usually stubborn muscle groups as well. For whatever reason, that's one that just seems to generally be harder to grow. And so the guys program has you doing a bit more upper body work than the women's program. And also the rep range is different because having done the wrong thing. Well, no, it's not the wrong at all. It's just that having worked with many women over the years, so you can tell a guy to start bench pressing in the four to six rep range, it's just that having worked with many women over the years, so you can tell a guy to start bench pressing in the four to six rep range. Let's just say 80, 85% of his one rep max,

no problem. And for most guys, that's probably around, I don't know, 100 pounds, 135 pounds or something like that. And they just get going. But for women, many women, if they haven't lifted weights before are struggling just to press the bar for maybe five or six reps, maybe seven or eight. And so to tell them to, okay, start bench pressing with 85% at one rep max is in some cases, it's not even logistically feasible. So to, to account for that in the women's program, I'm having them start with lighter weights, still pushing close to failure. So you're still getting a good muscle building stimulus out of it. And it's not like 30 reps a set or something like that.

It's just 10 to 12. And then there are some exercise differences. I recommend women start with dumbbell pressing instead of barbell pressing for chest in particular, because just of that point that I just had seen with so many women over the years that starting with the bar is sometimes even a little bit too much. So I guess the fact that you probably started out a bit stronger than the average woman, because I was surprised you were able to jump into bigger than you're stronger and just do it.

Yeah. Well, I grew up on a farm. I think that's part of it. So when the hay truck showed up from Canada and you had to move 200 bales of hay and they had to get going, you move 200 bales of hay. You picked up two bales at a time. Like being an equestrian, if you're, you're also always picking up equipment, buckets of water. Yeah. So I've always sort of maintained that strength. And as I said, like before, even though I was doing the 12 to 15 rep range, I was definitely pushing myself. I do have to say though, maybe this is, you might be onto something

because the first six weeks, I was so sore. I have never been so sore, but I am very stubborn. So I just went back and kept doing it because I wanted to push and get through those beginner gains like right away.

It was so fun to me and because I started getting results so quickly. Yes, it was just so fun to like gain that strength and keep pushing myself. It does, you know, again, for women, it really is frustrating. It takes a little bit longer to keep adding the weight, adding the weight. But it's really fun the day with pretty much every exercise now, even bench press, you know, to pick up the 45s and throw them on the barbell and, you know, show up the men just a little bit, just a little, just to keep on her toes. I mean, especially if you look at it in terms of relative strength, right? Because you weigh what, like 130 pounds now. So that's

benching your weight for reps, which quite a few guys can't even do. Well, actually, so this is the funny thing. We'll sort of get into the doctor's appointments. But when I was in college, I decided to start running to see if I could actually get down to a size six. And I did. I weighed, I'm 5'8", and I weighed 135 pounds. And I was a size six, and I was soft. If you want to look like a runner, that's totally fine. I was not into that. Right now, I actually, this is kind of crazy. I weigh 157 and I fit into the clothes that I wore in college during my running phase. If that isn't like for every woman listening, like that is the dream. You can fit back into your college clothes and you look so much better and you look how you want to. And so it's very funny because I'm going to these doctor's

appointments now and I step on the scale and they keep looking at me and saying, where are you hiding it all? I just looked and I was like, oh, I misread. I was looking at the little briefing document. I was like, oh, okay. I misread that. No, that's great though. I mean, you probably have, I'm guessing the fair amount of weight in your bones too, I'll bet you. When somebody's weight doesn't make sense, whether it's high or low, where somebody who's familiar with weight would guess you to be quite a bit lighter than you are, I'm on the other end of that. I mean, my weight is generally around 195 pounds, depending on what I'm doing with my diet and in the gym. But people would guess me probably 210, 215, but my weight's always been strangely low. So I know how that is. I've been on the other end of that. I remember it was like Universal

Studios or something. And there was a girl who was manning a booth. I forget what, it was one of the game booths. And it used to be a guess your weight booth. And if she was off by, I want to say it was no more than 10 pounds. It might've even been, yeah, it's probably 10 pounds. Then you win a prize. And at that time, that was the first point I really got in lean. I was like 175 pounds, maybe. And you're like, let's guess with her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, and I was asked, I was like, all right, so what would you guess my weight? And that was her booth. It just got switched over to something else. But for a while, that's what she was, that's the booth she was running. And I'm assuming she was good at it. Maybe not because they switched it out, but she guessed like 200 pounds or something. She

guessed 25 plus pounds off. I was like, yeah, a little bit off there. So I know how that goes, where somebody looks twice, like, wait a minute, you weigh what? Cause you know, there are guys in the office who weigh 195 pounds, same height as me look literally half my size. That's awesome. No, literally people will say like, oh, 140, 145. Because you do see the muscle. Strong bones. Okay, that's my line. I'm using that from you. I have strong bones. I mean, I do. I have like wide shoulders. I'm built like an opera singer. So maybe that's it. But regardless then, that's still strong though. I mean, you're basically benching your weight for reps. That's strong. Well, that's the cool day too, when you realize that you're actually squatting

or deadlifting more than your body weight. Like that's like, I can lift myself. I think that's crazy. I love that I can do that. Again, because in my gym, unfortunately, it's all guys. The regulars are so awesome, but I rarely see women in that area. And when they're there,

I want to run up and hug them and say, please stay. Like, you can do this. And then I see them throwing on the 10 pounds. I'm like, no. So, but no, it's really fun to like, to be the serious regulars definitely are doing more weight than me, but I'm in that, that range of intermediate to advanced, which is so cool. Yeah.

It's super cool. Was it intimidating for you in the beginning to start lifting heavier weights? And I guess you said you were doing some resistance training. It's just the reason I ask is that's something I often hear from women. And I like to ask women when I get them for these interviews is if they were intimidated by the process at all, or even getting into the weight section of the gym and what are other people going to think? Well, for me, I was really lucky because this crazy romance where I met my boyfriend in Abu Dhabi and then he came to New York, I had to impress him. So I was going to

throw on weights and do whatever he sort of suggested. And I'm lucky he's in New York every once in a while. So while he's here, he comes to my gym. And I think that made the process a lot easier. I will say it is, it's sort of frustrating because, you know, I am in a guy's area, like sort of anytime women enter a man centric area, there is sort of more that women have to deal with, unfortunately, than men. So when he's not here, you know, sometimes I have to defend my space. Sometimes I do. Like one time these two guys tried to bully me out of using a cage. So it is sort of frustrating.

That situation was hysterical because the regular guys, they were up so fast trying to, like, getting my back. Like, so they are super supportive. And I think that is really helpful that I have, like, the regular guys there and that they're always super supportive. And I think that is really helpful that I have like the regular guys there and that they're always super excited. Like, so first time that I put the 45 pound weights for bench press was actually only four weeks ago. I was working in with one of them and I was using 35s. I'm like, all right, I want to do 45. And we're sort of joking that when you work out, it's kind of like osmosis. Like the person next to you is doing more weight and you can actually do more. And so we threw in the 45s

and I'm like, all right, will you spot me? I have no idea how this is going to go and cranked out three reps. And he's like, I didn't even need to help you. In general, like I'm very lucky because that gym does have just a really nice support system of the guys there. Again, whenever I see a woman, I really want to run over to her and welcome her to the space because I can see sometimes they are sort of awkward and don't know what they're doing. And it's so funny. I don't want to become the mansplainer and run over and like, here are clips. Put them on so that you don't kill yourself while you're doing this exercise.

But every once in a while, I'm like, hey, because I could kind of Ken's as I'm a woman and say like, hey, can I give you like a little hint that will help you, you know, to try to just encourage them. Anytime I see anybody, because I've worked out for so long, I've been very healthy most of my life, I've had some health issues where I've had to come back to the gym out of shape. And I know how hard it is. Unfortunately, like in 2000, I had a really bad case of mono. I was sick for months and completely had to rebuild my body. And that was the point when the three pound weights were appropriate. So it just, anytime I see somebody who's new at the gym, I just want to like, say like to have that sort of presence. And I hope I

do that. Like you're fine here. Like this is, this is you know the area like this is for everybody yeah and luckily again the men sort of have that and it's really cool because being an entrepreneur like I was reading recently a book this is the answer by Dan Norris I really liked I know you're obviously into entrepreneurship I really like that book interesting I haven't heard of it I'll check it out okay but he was saying and actually you had a guest on who was talking about his entrepreneurial book that was called Man Up. In this world, you do sort of feel as like an outcast as a woman. And like one of his stories, Dan Norris' stories is how he started a company with his friends. And it's always kind of frustrating as a woman because you're not part of that inner circle of guys. That sort of developed in my gym, which is crazy that I have this rapport

with the regular guys there that is completely comfortable. That is, I can ask them questions. I can have them spot me. So knowing that when I go there now, they have my back in case there's any shenanigans and that they're there supporting me. And I mean, the day that I did the 45s, a couple of them knew about my journey that I've gone through the last year. They were all cheering. Like it was so fun. So shout out to all the guys at Blink on 40th Street near Bryant Park, because they're awesome. The morning guys. I don't know how the evening people are. We'll see. It's so funny when you go to the gym at a different time and you're like- Yeah, it's like a new gym.

Who are these people? It totally is. So yes, if you go there between 5.30 and 9.30, you're good to go. My gym, the early crowd is they're generally, let's see, the average age is a bit older. Very nice people. We have a similar, like you get to know everybody and you become a regular. And apparently the night crowd though, or the younger. It's just the average age is younger. And that's when the douchebags come out, basically. I mean, that's probably a common pattern. It makes sense, right?

Like some douchebag 20-year-old is not going to be arriving at the gym at 6 or 7 a.m. He's going to be like going to bed at 6 or 7 a.m. No. Well, that's what the serious people are there. Yeah, exactly. Plus, I think like since I've added more weights, the shenanigans have definitely calmed down. So like now it's really funny because I can do pull-ups.

You know, I hop on the bar and crank out five pull-ups. It's so funny. I can see it's like respect. Like there's just unheard of sort of respect among everybody. I enjoy going to the gym now. I do have to keep, you know keep my guard up just slightly if I'm there alone because sometimes things will, if someone's new or not a regular, and I think part of it is just, they don't expect me as a woman to be using that part of the gym. So like the other day, there was a new guy who showed up and I was waiting for a cage and he asked the guy in the

cage, Hey, how many more sets do you have? And the guy's like, she's waiting. So I'm like, yeah, I'm here. Yeah, she's waiting. Yeah, you have to wait for her. I think once you get to those heavier weights and you're dedicated, not even the heavy weights, but you're dedicated to really working on your body and you're doing those legitimate exercises, there is a camaraderie that happens. And I think women also think that people are judging them because people are in our lives, unfortunately, judging us quite a bit. So I think women do sort of worry about the

gym in that way. But I mean, if you're doing heavy weights, you're not thinking about anything other than, oh my gosh, I now have two and a half minutes to rest and then I got to do this again. You're not looking around and judging anybody. Yeah. So I think there's just sort of this mutual respect when you get to that point, definitely. Of course, I'd say, I guess being judged, any of us would find that uncomfortable, but ultimately it doesn't have to affect us at all. Actually, people can think whatever they want. They can say whatever they want. And there's a male version of everything that you've just explained where guys can be equally dismissive of other guys who are new to weightlifting, who aren't very big, aren't very strong,

don't really look like they should be there. Probably not the same. I would say it's, again, it's just like a dismissal, you know, like point of maybe the guy didn't know you're waiting or maybe he's just a dick, but that same thing happens to guys as well. Like if you're a, if you're just a dude who's new to lifting and you're, you know, you're just like a normal thin guy. You don't really, you don't look like you're really going to assert yourself and say, Oh no, no. Like I'm next. That kind of stuff happens. It's the dominant, like, Oh, I'm the alpha. Like you can go after me, bro. You know what I mean? I think, well, I've seen, it's very funny when my boyfriend is here so he is kind of like you on

the leaner side like obviously you can tell he's strong but we'll go on to the benches and he'll pick up 90 pound weights to do an inclined bench press and the other guys on the benches just leave and i'm like honey you devastated like five guys right now. Especially on a Friday when they're in there doing their chest workout, you know, to go out later because they want that muscle bloat. And, oh, it's so funny. I love Fridays at the gym with guys because they're all on the benches doing incline, looking at themselves doing this terrible thing to say, looking at themselves doing chest. But it is, at least at my gym, there is sort of that phenomenon that happens. Friday night, any gym in a metropolitan area.

Yeah. There's a lot of, there's a, there's a lot of like chest and bicep pumping going on. Okay, exactly. So it's just, it was so funny because he, you know, picks up those heavy weights and all the guys left. And I'm like, oh, sweetie, you just completely devastated a bunch of guys. They're not going out now. They're going to stay in and so I think, yeah, I think that's sort of the case.

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checkout and you will save 20% on your entire order if it is your first purchase with us. And if it is not your first purchase with us, you will get double reward points on your entire order. That's essentially 10% cash back in rewards points. So again, the URL is legionathletics.com. And if you appreciate my work and want to see more of it, please do consider supporting me so I can keep doing what I love, like producing podcasts like this. Do you travel a fair amount for your work or otherwise? I definitely do. And how have you made that work?

Because that's obviously an obstacle. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's that challenging. In general, you know, I find a gym. In February, we were in Spain and we went skiing for part of our vacation. But the other part, we were seeing my boyfriend is half Spanish. So we're seeing his family. So we got a gym membership for the couple of days and went in there four mornings while we were there for a week. So I think if you kind of can find, usually I can find a gym in whatever town that I'm in.

If not, like I know you were in Italy this summer. I was performing there in this lovely town. Where in Italy? So I was in the Marche region between Rome and the Adriatic Sea. And I highly recommend it because it's absolutely beautiful. And it's a third of the price of any of the tourist areas. So there, luckily, we're in a valley. So every morning before rehearsal, I would go for like an hour and a half walk, like a hike. So it was at least like using my legs because it was mountainous region. And like a hike. So it was at least like using my legs because it was

mountainous region. And it was Italy. So it was horrible because there were sunflowers everywhere and vineyards and lilacs. And like I would walk around and every corner was absolutely stunning. So it was absolutely beautiful. It was a lovely workout. And then, you know, I do my pushups in my room or do lunges. Usually I'm away for like two to three weeks. And then, you know, I do my pushups in my room or do lunges. Usually I'm away for like two to three weeks. And so if I maintain, then when I come back to the gym, it's usually not a big problem. I actually think you should rename your book, have the perfect body and go away on vacation and never gain any weight. Like that's, you have to shorten it a little bit, But that would sell to everybody because that's what happens. I mean, that's the crazy thing. I mean, we go to Spain, if we're going on vacation,

you know, we indulge, we don't overindulge, but we definitely indulge. Sometimes when I'm performing, you know, after performances, I'm hungry. So it's like, okay, how do I regulate my food? So that like, I can eat something after but I don't overeat. I think that's where a lot of opera singers get into trouble because you finish your performance, you have a lot of adrenaline, you're also really tired. So it's like the worst combination and you're hungry. So you're going to overeat. For me, I always want to sort of set up my future self for success. I think that's so important. So like in New York, even if I'm going out to dinner, it's so easy, you just go online and check out the menu beforehand. And you decide on something that to dinner, it's so easy, you just go online and check out the menu

beforehand. And you decide on something that afternoon at, you know, two, three o'clock when you're not hungry. For me, that works. Because then if I go to I don't really drink much, but I go to restaurants, sometimes I'll have a glass of wine, and then you're chatting with friends, you're more likely to order the fattier, more caloric dish, as opposed to something like if you've already sort of made up your mind, you're like, okay, I'm having a salmon with salad, you're going to stick with that. So I sort of have a plan. And I have sort of like go to recipes that I always have, either at home, if I'm working from home, or when I go away. And actually, that same trip in Italy, there was a insult to call it a deli, but this mini food store across from me. And I became friends with

the owner. And so I'm like, hey, I need this food at this time. And he would make me my meals. I did have a kitchen there, but it was hard to food shop there. So he made my meals. And so it was so much easier. Like you just kind of come up with a plan each time. It's a matter of being resourceful and just thinking about it a little bit and being like, okay, how could I make this work? Yes. Yeah. And when I've gone on tour, I've brought food with me. Like I used to do touring companies in my twenties with an operetta company. And so I brought a lot of food with me and then I always had something to eat.

So, and in general, I mean, you can find healthy stuff on a menu. It's hard at that moment. I know sometimes to make that commitment that like, okay, I'm not going to order that indulgent dish. But also the funny thing is now I can eat so much more like back in the day when I had that crazy appetite. Now my appetite is so much more regulated, which again is helpful for what I then had to go through. So it's just, it's easier to make those decisions. And now when I like indulge, you know, if I have a piece of chocolate or I have some ice cream, I have a small portion, it's really filling. So it's just a lot easier with much less of an appetite. And I'm having more protein. And I'm Oh, by the way, too, I cut out

my breakfast. That was one of the biggest changes I made was I ate after I worked out. And the only reason I can do that, we call it the magic drink, which is your pre workout drink. Pulse, pulse for anybody wondering. Yes, pulse is phenomenal. And like literally, sometimes if I go to the gym, and I've forgotten my water bottle with my pulse, I will go home and get my pulse and walk back to the gym. Like that's how much it just gets me over. Because again, I grew up on a farm. We ate really early and we started chores really early. So that was a big change for me.

Yeah, my pulse in the morning. After a workout, I have some protein, but I'm not really hungry till like 10, 30, 11. And then I can have something small and then a normal lunch. So I've sort of cut out a meal already, which then I can use those calories like later on in the day. So it's much easier. And then I was surprised sort of like cutting wasn't that difficult. So once I started weight training, I did notice like I was getting a little

bigger. And so it's like, okay, it's time. My boyfriend was like, so now I will introduce you to cutting and what you have to do and monitoring your calories. See, that's so important to know that like, okay, it's not the weightlifting that is the quote unquote problem here. It's simply that you're gaining muscle. And that means now that for the look that you want and for any women listening to just picture 20% body fat, in my experience, having worked with many, many women over the years, that's where most women are happiest. That's where you look lean and athletic. You don't look too shredded though. You don't lose your femininity. You still have curves, but you look like an athlete.

That look though also requires an above average amount of lean mass, because if you don't have enough muscle, you can have a low body fat level, but then you have that kind of skinny fat look. So you have to have both. But if you have the muscle and you allow your body fat to go too high, and by too high, it's really a subjective thing, too high for you. There is a point where you're like, I just look too big. And guys, we would just say, oh, I look fat. And girls probably say the same thing, but it would come with that bulky connotation. Women would think that guys wouldn't, they're trying to look bulky.

That's like a positive thing for the average guy. But it's that point of understanding that because many women, they make the mistake of, they start doing some resistance training and they start gaining some muscle and they gain some strength. And then they start looking a bit bigger than they want to look a bit, quote unquote, bulkier. And then they just stop the resistance training and they just go back to like starvation and cardio. Yes. So that was me for before I met you. That was that cycle.

It's so frustrating. So for me, it's just finding that, that getting that definition. So that sort of dictated how much I was cutting. I have to ask you, is Triumph for men or is that for men and women? That's a good question. It's for men and women, but because that's not entirely clear actually, and it also speaks to another point, which I'll get to in a second, but with Triumph, we're actually splitting it. We're going to have a version specifically for women. That's on the website. You're going to have to select, do you want it for men or do you want for women? And the formulations are going to be quite

different because by doing that, that's going to allow us to get very specific on the doses of vitamins and minerals because the average woman weighs quite a bit less than the average guy. And so it needs less of certain things. The average woman needs to supplement with iron, for example, whereas guys don't. And then even in the additional ingredients on top of the vitamins and minerals, we're going to be tweaking those to make them more specific to men and women. And that also leads me to an issue that we're addressing, which is that currently legions, the products look hyper-masculine. They look bodybuilder-ish.

I've heard from quite a few women over the years, you just were sharing their first impressions, which were, oh, that's probably not for me. Thatbuilders. So we're going through a whole rebrand redesign to make the packaging more gender neutral, look more premium, just like a premium supplement as opposed to like a hardcore bodybuilding kind of supplement. also, I think is going to just help with questions like that. Because I've, again, I've heard from quite a few women, like, you know, should I be taking any of this? Or is this just for bodybuilder guys? Or? Well, the thing is, so since my boyfriend was taking it, I decided to take it too. I was doing, I was doing the man. You might as well take the man supplements, whatever. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, well, it's working for you. Don't change it too much. So the interesting thing is I definitely took it while I was cutting, you know, to make sure I was getting all of my nutrients. You can't change it that much because it's phenomenal for your nail growth, things that men don't need to care about or know. But for any women out there who are listening, Triumph really

is really good for your fingernails if you want long nails, which helps because a couple of negative things about doing this is because I do deadlifts, I have really rough hands. You don't use gloves. You just let your hands. Luckily, my boyfriend thinks it's, you know, adorable because he's doing the same thing. So at least I have like nice fingernails. I mean, you grew up on a farm, so you could say exactly. Yeah. So the thing is like, that was was cool because during cutting, you know, I'm sort of nervous about cutting that many. It wasn't that many calories, which actually, again, is sort of surprising.

I cut out like 250 calories a day for a couple of days and went back up to what I was my maintenance and then back down. And to see like this weight just come off. And at the same time, you know, my fingernails are growing because also that's just a sign that like your body's healthy. So I knew like my body was safe. So that, yes. Okay. So now the mystery has been solved. I was thinking that as I was taking like, yeah, yeah, no, I understand. It is formulated for both men and women in that like the vitamins and minerals are dosed with the intention for both men and women.

So nothing is too high for women. And then in the 14 additional ingredients, none of those are specifically for men or women. And actually, most of them are staying. We're just going to be swapping a couple that we think that we like, but we have a women's formulation. a couple that we think that we like, but we have a women's formulation, then there also, there are a couple additionals that it would make sense to include specifically for women. That means that we could, it's also because that formulation was designed, I want to say three or four years ago, as the scientific literature has continued on. and as more and more research has been done, Curtis is really the guy who heads up all of this. And he works with a scientific advisory board.

There are ingredients where he's like, yeah, four years ago, I really liked this ingredient, but now I really like this other one more, so I think we should swap it. And so we're just making kind of across the board upgrades. making kind of across the board upgrades. And that's going to include putting some stuff again, specifically for women to help with menstruation symptoms, to help with cramps and stuff. There's something going in for that to help with libido and also hair, skin, and nails. And so we already got the nails. So just whatever that is, don't change it. Yeah. So how long did it take you to go from about 30% body fat to about 20%? I would say about six months. Nice.

Yes. Did you run into any obstacles along with anything that where you had to change what you were doing? Not really. I mean, I had like a knee injury and that was sort of nagging and that went away. So that was good. It really was just sort of these mental hurdles of, I don't see a lot of women doing this weight. Can I do this weight? Okay. Well, that guy's doing it. He's going to help me out. And again, it was just really the beginning of that fear of bulking up. And once that's taken away, then it was just sort of just learning and picking up more weights and advancing and the enjoyment of then saying, remember one time I was,

so I'm pear shaped and I was doing bicep curls and all of a sudden like I could see my deltoid and I was thinking, oh goodness, I have a new muscle. This is really cool. Then I thought, oh my gosh, but my hips have gone down. And then I quickly turned to the side. I was thinking, oh, goodness, I have a new muscle. This is really cool. Then I thought, oh, my gosh, but my hips have gone down. And then I quickly turned to the side. I'm like, all right, my butt's still there. OK, we're good. Like, I still look like a girl. So it's sort of this weird, like, transformation because it is sort of, you know, it's like

watching grass grow. All of a sudden, you're like, oh, my gosh, I have a really nice lawn. This is fantastic because I put in the work. And so you just sort of notice those things. And I think those really motivate you. And again, I'm not sure how much this is for guys, but for girls, putting on those outfits that you've always wanted to wear, walking for me, walking into an audition and knowing that I'm already knocking their socks off by walking in and looking like completely fit, completely against what a stereotypical opera singer looks like

is so much fun. So I think once you get that momentum, it really helps. I mean, I'm very lucky because I do have my boyfriend as a resource that I can keep asking him for information if there's something with programming. I know you have your coaching program. And also for people listening, there's also over at legionathletics.com on the blog, there's probably close to a thousand articles at this point. I've recorded a lot of podcasts.

So that's a great resource too. If you don't have someone you can go to, or if you don't want coaching, or if it's not in the budget. And then of course, people can also just email me anytime too, mikeatmuscleforlife.com. It might take me a week or so to get back to them,

but they will get an answer. I sent your Tom Brady podcast to a friend who was asking about nutrition. And I said, listen to this because this has some just very solid information for people about nutrition. There's so much. I was reading an article a few months ago about, so my generation had the food pyramid and there was actually a woman who was behind the food pyramid, a nutritionist. It was very controversial because she said that she actually thought the US government sent it out to the highest bidder. And after it came back to her, once it was sent to the Department of Agriculture, and all of a sudden there was eight to 12 servings of grains, they actually took away some of the servings of fruit and vegetables and no mention of low fat dairy because the dairy department didn't want that out there, that there was sort of something

negative with dairy. So for so many of us, isn't that crazy? It's like crazy. And she said, oh, this is going to lead to diabetes, heart disease, weight gain, which is exactly what it did. And then actually her and I were talking as well about the Harvard scientists that were paid off by the sugar industry to say fat was bad. So that's the thing is this really low fat diet of a lot of grains doesn't get you. I know I did it for a long time. It doesn't get you anywhere. You know, there's no mention of the amount of protein, that one gram per pound body fat. And it's so funny because I will say that to women and they'll say, isn't that, you know that tough on your body to process that much protein? And I'm thinking, you just complimented my body for looking so healthy. Meanwhile, you're sort of questioning

what I'm doing. But it's just, there's so much bad information out there and you have so many supposed experts. A lot of the bad advice has come from doctors who are mainstream and are either ignorant or just dishonest and are just driven by the need to sell the next thing. A lot of that comes down to just sizzle. Yes, all without a doubt. Yeah. It's super frustrating that they're, you know, how, that's why I sent her the podcast Cause I said, look, he's going to give you every single study behind why, what he does works. So you'll know why you're eating this way rather than just sort of making that guess. Yeah. Yeah. And as far as the grains point, just to add that, you know, I think it is, it makes sense. I look at grains as supplementary. So I look at the foundation of my diet is protein, is vegetables, is fruit, more vegetables

than fruit, simply because that's generally how it should be. It's not that it's bad to eat quite a bit of fruit, but two or three servings of fruit a day and about double that of vegetables is probably pretty ideal. And then healthy fats, specifically polyunsaturated, monounsaturated with some saturated, but I like to emphasize monounsaturated in particular. And then that only gets you so far with calories though. And especially, you know, I need to eat somewhere around 3000 or so calories, maybe 2800 calories a day to just maintain my body weight. So I need more calories. Where am

I going to get those? Okay, let's add some more carbs. And that could be grains. It could be legumes. That's normally where I go. I like oatmeal. So I'll eat oatmeal or do rice dishes or even some bread as well. I like pita bread. So I'll have some pita bread every day. But that's really the last thing that I'm adding into my diet. And I think that's just a tip for anybody listening that when you're setting up your diet, if you look at it that way, depending on how many calories you have to work with, when it comes down to like, okay, what grains and supplementary carbs am I going to be adding? You might not have much left. Like if you're a woman and you're cutting, for example, you might, you, after covering the major points of your protein

and your vegetables and your fruit and your healthy fats, it might leave a serving or so of supplementary carbs. But that is, I think, a good process to work through. And then when you're maybe in a lean bulking phase, you might be having several servings of supplementary carbs a day. Yeah, I actually really like the word. That's a very nice way of classifying it. What's important first. And then the, the carbs. Oh, that's very interesting. Yeah. I like it. I'm going to tell her that. Did you run into any hunger or cravings issues when you were cutting? No. In fact, my boyfriend would like to thank you because I'm much less hangry when I'm hungry. So it's interesting how that changes. I experienced the same change when I got my shit together years ago. Yes, he's definitely, that's been wonderful because,

I mean, I knew I was angry, so you're aware, but just, yeah, when your body's like craving this food all the time, because you're working out so much and you're like, and you're not having the protein and you just want more carbs and more carbs and more carbs. And then when you switch your diet and like, sometimes I'll be working and then I realized I haven't eaten lunch and it's 3.30. Like that never happened before. It was usually, okay, when's my next meal? As soon as I finish a meal. College especially was so frustrating because I was so active when I was younger that then I went to college and the freshman 15 hit. I was thinking, oh my goodness, because I used to be a dancer as well. How do I work out three hours a day? Because that's what

I used to do or horseback riding hours a day. And so I would try to go to the gym for almost two hours, but I was doing a neurobiology degree and an opera degree. Like you can't do that. It's not going to happen. I needed that energy to study. I needed that energy to sing. And it was so, I just remember being so frustrated and that's why I turned to running. And then, you know, again, I got all soft, so I didn't like how I looked. Yeah. So just, oh, it was very frustrating. So I'm glad, you know, it's so amazing to just be in control of your body finally, and to do what you need to do. And then also to take some time off and know when you come back, you know, that you don't have to rebuild as much as you thought you would have to. So, or you, I mean, that it is amazing when you go away for three or four weeks and you really don't gain the weight back, that's wonderful.

That is definitely a selling point. I think you need to put out there a little bit more. It's true. It's the big hook. It's true. That's what I say to people. I'm like, you get your best body and you go on vacation and you don't gain weight. Like, what else do you need in life?

And does that get people's attention? Oh, yes. Yes, without a doubt. Because, you know, you want to go on vacation and have fun fun and you don't want to come back and then it's like- You also don't want to have lingering feelings of guilt because you feel like you ate more than you should or be worried about what might happen if you do eat a bit too much. And by understanding, so I think there's the straight physiological side of you have a body now that burns quite a bit more energy than it did a couple years ago or several years ago.

And then there is that you also now understand the fundamentals of dieting. And so you're just instinctively going to make better food choices. And you already mentioned a few things where even though you're not maybe too concerned about your calorie intake, you're not accidentally eating like 6,000 calories a day or something. You're just more flexible in what you're eating. You are able to keep things reasonable and keep things under control, which then I think it gives you that ease of mind maybe where then you can enjoy whatever it is that you're eating, which may also contribute to not having to eat as much of it. Yeah. No, I completely agree with that. To have this, all I do now is just follow my normal pattern of how much I'm hungry. It's so

easy now. It really isn't. And the thing is too, if I'm like, okay, I want to cut a little bit, then I can do that for a little bit. I definitely, even when I'm cutting, I don't feel as hungry as I used to feel. It's much easier. I can just follow my hunger patterns completely. Like my body wants to maintain itself. Yep. And one of the major physiological reasons why the body's appetite of mechanisms work better, the fitter you are, it just has to do with insulin sensitivity. As your body becomes more responsive to insulin's signals, that means that you are naturally going to feel fuller after your meals. And it's going to also impact the levels of hormones related to hunger and satiety fullness, which are ghrelin and leptin. And there's some interface there between insulin sensitivity and the ghrelin and leptin system. And then there's also your body becomes more

sensitive to leptin, which induces feelings of fullness. There's stuff that's going on internally where your body's various different systems really, I mean, exercise positively impacts every important physiological system there is, but particularly related to appetite. And so then it makes it even easier to eat intuitively, so to speak, and just to go based on, hey, I'm hungry now. And then you have some simple, you know, for example, that if you're going to have a bigger dinner at night, you already know that. So you're on vacation. You already know that you're hungry. It's lunchtime. You are going to have a serving of protein. You're going to eat some vegetables and that's it. And that's going to fill you up. And even though you're not paying

attention to calories, you are instinctively just going with the flow with your body, where you're eating foods that are filling foods that are nutritious, you're stopping, you're not eating to the point of being stuffed, you're just eating to the point of being satisfied. So then when you are going to intentionally push it a bit further, you are going to stuff yourself here and there. It's just in the scheme of things, you just don't really see the impact. And I don't know about you, but I'll even naturally feel, so if I eat a larger dinner, and then I'll just be naturally less hungry the next day. If I just go by how I'm feeling, I will instinctively just eat less the next day. That's absolutely the case. It's so fantastic. Because again, it's that sense of just your body is doing the right thing that it's supposed to

be doing instead of this craving and being hungry. Because once you know, once you're hungry, you're sort of in this, you know, state of unrest, and you want to fulfill that. So to actually be able to not be hungry, for your body to do what it's supposed to be doing, it's a very calming sort of feeling in a way, because you know you've optimized your body. You know that that's the case. And you look fantastic, so that's part of it too. And the other thing too is if I want to indulge, you know, sometimes I do, but also right now my body looks so good. So nothing tastes as good as looking in the mirror. Like that is just the case. I think for women, when they get over that hump and they're like, oh my goodness, you

know, there is that, do I really want that chocolate cake? Because this could add so many calories that there could not be consequences with the one piece of cake. But you just, if you make, again, setting your future self up for success, if you kind of constantly make that decision, like, I don't need that. Like, think about for a month, you know, if you cut down on dessert, how many calories that will be? Like, one of the things I do in New York is anytime I can, I use the stairs, always use the stairs and my friends make fun of me. Yeah. That's a good idea. That's a good tip. I've shared with, I mentioned that a number of times just to increase looking for simple ways to increase general activity is just smart. Yeah, actually. And when I go, when I work at

different opera companies and they do, they do offer housing, I usually say no. Then I find an apartment that is walking distance from the theater or from the rehearsal space, because it's so important to just get that little bit of extra walking in. I'm so used to doing that in New York that once that cardio is taken away, it is sort of difficult. You know, it's not tons of cardio, but you know, probably is about a half a mile to a mile a day of moving around. That definitely adds up. Think about over a year, if I'm walking upstairs as much as possible, usually if it gets to like six floors, I'll take the elevator. But under that, but under that, you know, I take the stairs and

like over a year that has to add up to something. So all those like little changes can make such a big difference. Yeah. Walking's great. If we're looking at it just from an energy burn perspective, you're going to burn a couple hundred calories an hour of walking. And that's also a good traveling tip that I've shared a number of times when you're on vacation is do a lot of walking and then you really can eat a lot of food and you will see no difference. Really? Yeah. The bummer is here. People say that to like New Yorkers, like, oh, well, you're going to walk a lot while you're there so you can eat more. And you're like, no, I already walk a lot.

Yeah. It doesn't translate quite as well. But yeah, no, that's definitely the case. Yeah. I don't go to New York often, but I'm there. I mean, when I really travel anywhere, I like to go and see things. I'm not. I guess the other option is like shopping, which that's what my wife prefers to do.

But I prefer not to do that. So I'm out walking a lot. And although actually funny enough, so Sarah, she used to be more into shopping than she is now because now she can just do it all online and she, okay, she wants to go shopping for two hours or something. I hate shopping, particularly on vacation. So then I would go, all right, I'm just going to go like, look at buildings. I'll go to museums. I'll go look at, look at things. Now that's less the case because she just does all her shopping online. But by walking, you know, on average, I would say when I'm on vacation, I'm probably walking three to five hours a day. And that's a lot of calories. Again, that's like 1,000 to 1,500 calories that I can just eat basically and know that I have a big buffer.

Yeah. No, that's definitely the case. I mean, the nice thing is when I'm performing or vacationing in Europe, usually they're walkable cities, obviously. So that does make it easier. But anytime that I can set myself up in the States with just adding that extra walking in, it makes such a difference. Definitely. And just especially to like for me after performance, you know, walking home from the theater, like you start working out some of that adrenaline. So it's just sort of a calming effect rather than get in the car and then get to your apartment

and now relax. And then you're going to you're more likely to eat, I think, anyway. Yeah. Yeah. For me, that would also, it's messed with my sleep. I've learned that if I am stimulated up to the point of going to bed, I'm probably going to wake up like six times. I actually, as I've gotten a little bit older, that's been, it's not the case when I was younger, but as I've gotten a little bit older, I need to take a little bit of time to relax and make sure that I'm actually like sleepy-ish by the time I go to bed, or I'm probably not going to sleep well. Yeah, yeah, no, it's actually it is. That's a tricky thing after performance to get some good rest. So you hope that sort of the exhaustion takes over from the adrenaline. Yeah, I can imagine.

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