Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - How Todd Used Bigger Leaner Stronger to Lose 56 Pounds and Get Jacked

Episode Date: August 25, 2021

In this podcast, I talk with Todd, who read Bigger Leaner Stronger and used what he learned to go from over 230 pounds to 175 pounds (and 10% body fat) in a year, all while gaining gobs of muscle in the process. Before finding BLS, Todd was very overweight and unhealthy. He wanted to get in shape, so he started intermittent fasting, but he didn’t know anything about energy balance, meal planning, or what really moves the needle. He ended up stuck in a rut. When Covid hit and Todd got sick, he realized he needed to make a real change and finally get healthy. He couldn’t keep doing what he was doing or he could literally lose his life. Luckily he found my work, gobbled up the information, and started implementing what he learned. He started tracking his food and quickly realized he was eating too much. He also started training properly, and he was finally able to break through weight loss plateaus and get down to 175 pounds with an impressive physique. In this interview, Todd and I chat about his story, the biggest epiphanies he had after reading BLS, how he continues to stay on track and motivated, the importance of having a willingness to change, the value of cheat meals, and more. So if you’re looking for a jolt of inspiration and like motivational stories, definitely listen to this episode. Timestamps: 5:13 - What was your situation before finding my work? 23:22 - What has been your experience with cheat meals? 30:59 - How does overeating affect your workouts? 39:32 - Was intermittent fasting helpful? 42:37 - Did you use any supplements? 45:51 - Do you think you'll have trouble maintaining what you've achieved? Mentioned on the show: Bigger Leaner Stronger: https://legionathletics.com/products/books/bigger-leaner-stronger/ Legion VIP One-on-One Coaching: https://buylegion.com/vip

Hey, and welcome to a new episode of Muscle for Life. I'm Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today. And quickly, if you like what I'm doing here on the podcast, you wanna make sure that you don't miss future episodes, go ahead and subscribe to the show in whatever app you are listening in, because then you will be notified.

I guess it depends on the app. They don't all notify you, but you will not miss episodes because the app will automatically download every new episode and queue them up for you to go through and check out. And also, if you subscribe, it's going to help me because it boosts the ranking of the show and therefore makes it easier for more people to find me and my work. Okay, so this episode is a success story. This episode is an interview I did with Todd, who read my book, Bigger, Leaner, Stronger,

and used what he learned to go from over 230 pounds down to 175 pounds and about 10% body fat. And of course, he gained a bunch of muscle and strength along the way and is now in the best shape of his life. And before finding me in my work, Todd was overweight. He was unhealthy. He wanted to get in shape. So he started intermittent fasting because he heard that is the key. But he didn't understand energy balance. He didn't understand macronutrient balance. And so of course, Todd ended up stuck in a rut and then COVID hit, he got very sick and he realized that he needed to make a real change, a permanent change. And he found me, he found Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, and it made a lot of sense to him. He started to implement what

he learned in the book, started to see real and consistent results for the first time, and just kept going. And the rest is history, as they say. And so in this episode, you are going to hear from Todd and you're going to hear his story. You're going to hear some of the lessons he has learned along the way. He shares some of the tactics, some of the dietary tactics and training tactics that have helped him stay consistent and enjoy the process. And so if you are in the middle of your own transformation, or if you are just about to get started, I think you're going to find this interview enlightening and motivating. Also, if you like what I'm doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my VIP one-on-one coaching service

because my team and I have helped people of all ages and all circumstances lose fat, build muscle, and get into the best shape of their life faster than they ever thought possible. And we can do the same for you. We make getting fitter, leaner, and stronger paint by numbers simple by carefully managing every aspect of your training and your diet for you. Basically, we take out all of the guesswork. So all you have to do is follow the plan and watch your body change day after day, week after week and month after month. What's more, we've found that people are often missing just one or two crucial pieces of the puzzle. And I'd bet a shiny shekel it's the same with you. You're probably doing a lot of things right, but dollars to donuts, there's

something you're not doing correctly or at all that's giving you the most grief. Maybe it's your calories or your macros. Maybe it's your exercise selection. Maybe it's your food choices. Maybe you're not progressively overloading your muscles or maybe it's something else. And whatever it is, here's what's important. Once you identify those one or two things you're missing, once you figure it out, that's when everything finally clicks. That's when you start making serious progress. And that's exactly what we do for our clients.

To learn more, head over to www.buylegion.com. That's B-U-Y-L-E-G-I-O-N.com slash VIP and schedule your free consultation call, which by the way, is not a high pressure sales call. It's really just a discovery call where we get to know you better and see if you're a good fit for the service. And if you're not for any reason, we will be able to share resources that'll point you in the right direction. So again, if you appreciate my work and if you want to see more of it, and if you also want to finally stop spinning your wheels and make more progress in the next few months than you did in the last few years, check out my VIP coaching service at www.buylegion.com slash VIP. Hey, Todd.

Hey, how's it going? Pretty good, man. We've successfully started to record this podcast. For people listening, we had a couple of misfires. They were probably, I don't remember exactly, probably my fault. But here we are, and I'm excited to talk to you. Yeah, yeah. Our commingled busy schedules have finally come together.

Yeah, our stars have aligned. busy schedules have finally come together. Yeah, our stars have aligned. So I like to start these conversations with a quick kind of before and after snapshot just to grab people's attention, really. So could you tell us quickly where you were at before you found me and found my work and before you really started to take your fitness seriously i guess you could say and then where are you at today and and you could talk about whatever is most meaningful to you for some people it's it's pretty straightforward they're just like you know i wasn't in shape and i was a bit overweight and i i lost the excess fat and i built some muscle now i'm in great shape. And for other people,

there is that, but sometimes there are other factors as well that have more weight, you know? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I can, I can give you a quick, there's a sort of an image that I think of that an actual photo, but I think of some pictures that were taken at my, my daughter Taylor's baptism in 2017. Uh, I was about 265, probably, I mean, 30% plus body fat. I was, I was big. Um, you know, waist was coming in at probably 46. Uh, I was, I was a big boy, but you know, I was, I've always been a larger guy. My whole life, I've been overweight to some extent. It was only just in the past probably five years, just a couple of years after I had kids, that things just kind of started spiraling out of control.

And I think of that image in 2017 as just kind of started spiraling out of control. Um, and I, I, I think of that image in 2017 is just kind of like, you know, a really embarrassing self, uh, judgment, right? I see it on Facebook from time to time. We have this little picture in our living room that, that cascades through, uh, you know, family pictures and things like that. And it comes up and it was like, Oh man, uh you know family pictures and things like that and it comes up and it's like oh man we've come a long ways uh and and so i i think of that you know 2017 uh and nothing really changed i think that you know seeing those pictures uh afterwards you know maybe in 2018 i i tried to a couple different diets i tried intermittent fasting um i had read a bunch of articles online and made some attempts to change, but was unsuccessful for a couple of years. And I mean, really, that's kind of the saga of my whole life is I really just have never been able to hone in my own personal fitness.

And it's a depressing thing for anyone who's ever gone through their whole life like that. Just, you know, always feeling kind of overweight, not really reaching any kind of potential and, and just really not knowing what it's like to be healthy. Uh, that, that was definitely, definitely my story. Um, and then, uh, really what, what occurred and, and, well, I'll fast forward to today, give you a glimpse of what, you know, what the kind of metrics are now. I'm, uh, 178 pounds. Uh, I'm not sure the exact body fat percentage, but, um, you know, floating around 10, 11, 12, 13%, somewhere in there, it goes up and down. Um, and, uh, feeling really good, feeling a lot healthier. Uh, I feel like my thought processes are, are more clear. I feel that, uh, I've got a lot healthier. I feel like my thought processes are more clear.

I feel that I've got a lot more control over my eating habits and my fitness routine. And so it wasn't easy, but I certainly have come a long ways. So if you'd like, I can jump into kind of the, you know, what was the catalyst and kind of, you know, uh, what, what catapulted me to, to make this huge change. If, uh, if you'd like, I can kind of walk through that. Yeah. Yeah. I would love to hear it. Yeah. So really what transpired was, you know, like I said, going into 2020, 2019, 2020, uh, you know, kids are growing up.

We're growing our family, uh, kind of progressing into the career. I happen to be in a line of business that requires that I travel quite a bit. And the first part of 2020, it's sort of on the precipice of the global pandemic. It's early January, February. No one really knows what's about to hit them, but I was on a business trip in Seattle, February. No one really knows what's about to hit them, but I was on a business trip in Seattle, sort of going about my normal routine, meeting out with clients, going to lunches, driving around town, taking Ubers, doing this, doing that, just sort of operating business as usual. On the night before I was to come home, and I'd sort of had a, I felt like I was maybe coming down with a,

you know, a head cold or something coming up to the last night. But night before my flight to come home, I just have, I wake up in the middle of the night, cold sweat, the best way to describe it. And I tell other people it was like an asthma induced stroke or some. It felt like I was going in and out of consciousness, just really in a bad state of mind. I couldn't breathe. I thought I was dying. And if you've ever felt like that or gone through an experience like that,

it's terrifying. It's absolutely and utterly terrifying. And so, you know, long story short, I, you know, 10, 12 hours straight of just, you know, heaving in my hotel room. I feel terrible for, you know, whatever poor soul had to come in and get exposed to whatever I had. Who knows if it was COVID or something else, but whatever it was. Sounds COVID-esque, that's for sure, as far as the symptoms go. Yeah. You know, like I was sort of telling you, I haven't gone to prove whether I've had COVID or not. I think it's a fair assumption that that was probably one of the early cases in 2020. And so looking back, thinking about sort of how things transpired, it was one of those moments in time in my life that i just i i looked at okay so you know what's what is everyone talking about well you you look at the

the news stories you know they say perfectly healthy 30 year old dies of covid and then you see the picture of them and it's like they don't exactly look perfectly healthy not exactly a model of uh health like define perfect and healthy i think we're uh i think we have some semantic differences yes right so i'm like this must this must be uh related to you know obesity uh you know the getting sick and dying must have something related to uh being obese and dying of the disease so i just took a real hard look at myself and said, I have to change. I have to change for my kids. You know, my worst nightmare is my kids growing up without a dad.

And so I started getting serious. I started, you know, Googling different things, like what's the best book to scientifically change your body? And just doing a lot of article reading at first. And I happened to come along, you know, the series of Mike Matthews books. And I guess the first book, you know, the Better Stronger book was, that was kind of, you know, my epiphany that I need to get scientific about the way that I'm treating my body, the way that I'm eating, the way that I to get scientific about the way that I'm treating my body, the way that I'm eating, the way that I'm working out, the way that I'm measuring myself.

It was just a sort of an epiphany that I just needed to tighten in my metrics and just make it more of a scientific experiment than I was making it. Because really, I mean, what I've been doing my entire life wasn't working and I'd never tracked anything. So it is similar to how I came into all of this. I mean, I was I wasn't I was into lifting weights and I was I was in good shape by anybody's standards, but I was not approaching it scientifically at all. And so it was a similar for me. It was more just like, you know, I'm already putting my time into this. I might as well at least try to get more out of it, you know? Yeah, right. Quit spinning our wheels here and then try to make some progress and noticeable progress. Yeah. Yeah. That was certainly kind of the first epiphany. The second epiphany was just kind of the

energy balance realization that, well, first of all, that I'm eating way too much. When you, when you start to, you know, get yourself to a point where you're actually eating somewhere around, you know, 2,000, 2,200 calories a day, like, man, I'm still hungry. What am I doing wrong here? Am I weighing it wrong? Or, or was I just eating triple the amount that I should be for my entire life? The latter, I would be way too much. And I've just gotten used to just stuffing my face constantly and just didn't have a concept for meal portion sizes and what was really appropriate for an adult to be eating. And so, you know, weighing my food, weighing food, weighing not just,

you know, the meat that you're going to cook up, but also, you know, little snacks in between. I weigh everything. I still to this day weigh all my food. People think I'm crazy when I tell them that, but it's like, listen, this is what I have to do. It's sort of like, you know, kind of just a routine that I know that I have to keep myself in or I'll fall off the wagon. And grabbing a handful is just different than weighing it. It might feel the same, but it's not. And just to chime in on that, if anybody listening hasn't consistently measured and weighed their food for any, I would say, decent amount of time. their food for any, I would say, decent amount of time. And if you, so you've not done that,

and you are struggling to manipulate your body composition the way you want, if you're struggling to lose weight or lose fat, or maybe you're struggling to gain weight, to gain muscle, and you're fairly certain that your workout programming is good, maybe you're following one of my programs. And it's not to say that my programs are the best possible programs, but they're, they're time proven at this point. And they're, and they're based on solid principles. Um, then it's a good exercise to, to do, to make a, make an exact meal plan, decide what you're going to eat and measure the foods. And the reason is, is you will then start to gain more familiarity and more understanding of portion sizes and how different amounts of different foods correlate with different amounts of calories and macronutrients. And given your success net that you've had, Todd,

you know, of course, that you could, if you were taking, you mentioned that this is just what works for you to make sure that you stay on track. However, you certainly have now intellectually grasped what I just explained. You now understand you eat. I'm sure you've, you've, you've measured the foods that you like to eat enough where you have a very good idea of what portion sizes are like, but it sounds like if you give yourself too much latitude, it just tends to turn into overeating too easily. And so you've kept it in simply as a, as a tool for just keeping your calories and macros where you need them to be. And you feel it's not a major imposition. You don't mind doing it, so why not? Am I right there?

Yeah, I think that psychologically, it's probably more of a psychological thing. I could measure up my food ahead of time. But it kind of plays into the whole idea of flexible dieting as well, in that I know essentially where I want my macros to end up. I know essentially how many calories I need to have. And then, you know, on that point, just this idea of if I have one bad day or if I have, you know, a day that I'm really on target, it's really not going to make that much of a difference, right? Correct. Small trends, small changes, small trends, you know, you have to have consistency over a long period of time to actually see true change and really getting this concept of, you know, you have to have consistency over a long period of time to actually see true change and really getting this concept of, you know, OK, well, I can kind of map out where what I want to eat and the food that I'm going to buy at the grocery store for the whole week. And then, you know, if something comes up and, you know, there's birthday cake, well, I eat the birthday cake. You know, there's birthday cake.

Well, I eat the birthday cake. You know, it's not going to ruin my life. But, you know, I can make up for it over the course of seven days and just, you know, be very disciplined the rest of the time. And just to say, I do the same thing. And, you know, my job is, one of my jobs is to stay in really good shape. Unnecessarily good shape, if we think about it from any other perspective, right? It's not necessary. Not that I'm super jacked or shredded but for for a natural dude i would say i probably am about as uh in shape as i could be without causing myself problems if you if you get too lean and stay too

lean right for example without drugs you you just feel terrible all the time blah blah blah and i'm the same way i have my meal plan. I like to eat certain foods and I just get into a rhythm of eating those foods, but there will be opportunities just the other day. So I moved, I was telling you before you get recorded, I moved to Florida. I'm on a farm now in Florida and I have a couple of horses. It's my wife's thing. Like I don't ride, she rides and there's somebody who helps with the horses and helps with the farm. And his mom or his mother-in-law made, I don't know if she does this like as a caterer

or I don't think she has a restaurant, but she made Mexican food, like a spread of like little tacos. And I'm not familiar enough with Mexican food. There were a couple of, yeah, there were a couple and she's authentically Mexican, right? Plowdoos or something. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't, I don't, I'm not familiar enough to know what these different dishes or what they were called, but, but, uh, Rogelio is, is the guy who works with us. He brought it for, for me and my family to eat. And so instead of eating my salad with chicken for lunch, I had that knowing like what you said, it's just, it just doesn't really matter if these small deviations are totally fine where it becomes an issue. Not that, well, let's say that Mexican food, there's nothing wrong with that, but let's say I work five to six days a week. I were skipping my couple servings of leafy greens to just eat corn tortillas. Maybe not the best nutritional decision, but so long as you're doing the most important things mostly right,

most of the time, you can afford the detours. And not only you can afford them, you should enjoy them. No matter how robotic you may be able able to be and i'm one of those people for sure it's still nice to have something that is not on your meal plan now and then and even to plan in all right on friday night like i like to have ice cream that's my my kind of go-to indulgence so so once a week uh i'll eat a pint and I don't like to eat a little bit of ice cream. That's not, if I'm going to eat ice cream, I want, I want to eat the whole pint. Right. So once a week I'll eat a pint of, uh, Jenny's is the brand is my go-to these days. Delicious. And, uh, they have a, they have quite a few different flavors that are good,

but my favorite is gooey butter cake. Uh, I think it's called gooey something cake. good, but my favorite is gooey butter cake. I think it's called gooey something cake. And it's like their take on milk bars, crack pie, they had crack pie ice cream or something, which I tried and it's not Jenny. Jenny's just shits on it. So I tried it once and that was the end of that. But anyway, I've hijacked the conversation, but I just wanted to, I just wanted to chime in and say that that strategy is, is it really makes all of this sustainable. Yeah. And to that point, the diet has been crucial. And really, say like, what's your secret?

I always say cheating. Cheating is my secret because I actually plan. So every week we have family dinner night on Friday night. And then sometimes we do it again on Saturday night. And it's just the time where I get to be with my family. We go out to dinner. We eat out at a restaurant. And I don't have cauliflower and broccoli and squash and chicken and whatever else is ultra healthy that I eat on a regular course of the week.

You're not ordering the tilapia and asparagus with no oil. Oh, man. No, we go all out. And so the plan sheet, I mean, it's just like, I look forward to it and it kind of keeps me in line all week. And that's kind of my secret. And it's gotten me through a lot of the real tough weeks because at first it's tough because you work your ass off, you know, and I could get into kind of the exercise routine a little bit, but I did, I was doing some, uh, you know, sometimes two a day that I'd be, you know, waking up early to lift in the morning. And then later in the day, when it'd cool off, I'd, I'd be going out and doing, you know, 45 minutes of, of, uh, hit workout sprinting, uh, kind of, you know, running my ass off in our neighborhood and all the neighbors kind of looking at me weird, you know, and you do that for weeks on end at first.

And you just don't see much difference. You don't see much progress. And I think that psychologically, that's why a lot of people drop off because they don't see, they don't get the reward of kind of seeing the results right away. drop off because they don't see, they don't get the reward of kind of seeing the results right away. Uh, and when you're as big as I was, you know, it takes a lot to kind of, I, I always tell people like they're asking me like, when do you see difference? It's like, man, you know, I feel like I dropped like five BMI points before I actually started, people actually started noticing. Right. And that's a lot, a lot of weight that i had to lose before i actually got the gratification of of uh kind of noticing a difference and and there were a lot of weeks

in there where i was like man is this even working but i read you know your book i read it wasn't the only book i read a lot of different uh materials and sort of you know come to the conclusion that this is the path i need to take and i wasn't going to give up because i always think back to that you know the catalyst moment which was that this is the path that I need to take. And I wasn't going to give up because I always think back to that, you know, the catalyst moment, which was, if this is this, or you're going to die of COVID in a hotel room in Seattle, right? You know, something's going to get you eventually. If it wasn't COVID, it's going to be a stroke or a heart attack or something that's the

result of just being, you know, just in terrible health. So yeah, the cheat meal is awesome. How, I'm curious, how has that been for you? So yeah, the cheat meal is awesome. do enjoy all of the nutritious stuff that I eat, but there is a different enjoyment that comes from going to the restaurant and just ordering everything you want, um, eating the pint of ice cream, uh, making the huge bowl of pasta. I like to make homemade pasta that, that that's something I really enjoy as well. But the fact that it is the exception, not the rule makes it a lot more enjoyable than if it were the other way around. But that's me. How has that experience been like for you? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's way more enjoyable.

And when you are forced to go out and it's not your cheat day, you do find yourself, I think, at least personally, this is me, sticking to the plan a little closer. If I'm forced to go out on a business meal that's not on cheat day, it just happens in the course of life. You're going to have to put in situations when you're trying to be ultra healthy, you're not comfortable. And one strategy I've learned is that I like to know where I'm going ahead of time. I like to look at the menu and I sort of in my head put together like the healthiest possible meal that I can and sort of, you know, abstractly calculate what I think the calories are going to be. If I say, okay, I want to get that salad, but I don't want the dressing.

I don't want any dressing. I want you to put the chicken on the side and I need to have as many vegetables as possible, but not, you know, no oil. So it's like there are strategies around doing that, but it's all part of the process and sort of getting used to, you know, living your lifestyle a little bit differently in order to have this, you know, body that you're sure satisfied with and that you get compliments about and that, you know, it just makes you happy. Right. The happiness you start to realize after a while that it you know, it just makes you happy. Right. Um, the happiness you start to realize after a while that it's like, yeah, there's, there's, uh, uh, I guess things that you can

enjoy more in life. Like I could, I could, you know, eat a pint of ice cream every night. Um, but you know, I did that for 34 years, 35 years and, and I felt like shit. So I just don't, you know, I don't want to live, I don't want to live that life anymore. I've made a decision to get away from that. And so the cheat meal is sort of like, it's sort of like an exodus where I can kind of just relax a little bit, enjoy food that I don't normally have. You know, I think it is extra tasty when you kind of get off of the regular health food train for a little bit. And yeah, I've really enjoyed it. Yeah, and those sentiments have been echoed to me from many people I've spoken with over the years

who went from consistent overeating and consistently eating way too little nutritious food to this type of lifestyle that we live in. at it on a, even on a weekly basis, most of your calories from very nutritious stuff and a minority from not so nutritious stuff, old them would have, it would have, would have thought that there's no way, you know, it just, it just would have been so terrible. And, um, and that it's really only for like fitness freaks, you know, if you like what I'm doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my VIP one-on-one coaching service. Because my team and I have helped people of all ages and circumstances lose fat, build muscle, and get into the best shape of their life faster than they ever thought possible. And we can do the same for you. You know something that's really strange is before, before, you know, I lost all the weight and gained kind of the, the, the muscularity that we,

so my wife and I would go to the Capitol grill. That's kind of our, our date night splurges, uh, Capitol grill before, you know, I could eat, I could eat a steak and, and lobster mac and cheese and dessert and drink my face off and, and feel just fine afterwards. Now we kind of look forward to the date nights, but a day afterwards, I don't feel very good before. I guess maybe I wouldn't notice, but like if I stuff my face like that and, and really splurge, man, you know, I really, you can kind of feel it inside of you. It's not really sitting so well, right. It tastes good, but you know, your body kind of now recognizes that. Yeah. That's not so good. Yeah. You've upgraded your machinery. You're no longer

like a Pinto. Now, now you're maybe like a Porsche and it doesn't like the, uh, the 75 octane fuel that you just filled it up with. Exactly. No, I've had the same experience, actually. Similarly, my quote-unquote splurges have become less splurgy, have become less decadent, just for that reason where when I was younger, i don't know if it was because i was younger it was just yeah it was fun to go to i used to go to fleming's actually it's similar to capital grow right and just eat oh nice yeah eat uh two or three appetizers and eat a huge steak everything yeah a huge steak that is is probably like by weight, half of it is butter at this point, right?

And then the dessert. And it was fun until I got home. Then I just, I didn't feel terrible, but it was, then the next day, you know, when I wasn't even beginning to get hungry until like 2 p.m., I was like, okay, that probably tells me something. I've just ate so, you know, when I wasn't even beginning to get hungry until like 2 PM, I was like, okay, that probably tells me something. I've just ate. So, you know, when you eat 7,000 calories for dinner, it's a bit, a bit much. And so these days I don't need to eat that much. I would say to,

to actually enjoy the overall experience more because, you know, you get to a point where you're just, you're not hungry at all anymore. And hungry at all anymore and you're not even really getting much satisfaction from continuing to eat. You're just eating for the sake of eating at that point. And that's kind of where I draw the line now in terms of diminishing returns of enjoyment. It's nice to enjoy it as the enjoyment curve is kind of going straight up. And then it starts to flatten off. And for me, for example, that's probably around 1,500 to 2,000 calories of whatever I'm eating.

If it's one food, that'd be a bit much. If it's ice cream, that's a bit much. Probably about, again, at the half pint mark, I'm like, okay, I could stop, but I just finish it because it's worth it. And there's a thousand calories, 800 calories, whatever. A 2,002 pints of ice cream, that second pint, I would just be forcing it down almost. But for me, that's what I've found is that if I stop there, then I enjoy it. And going further than that doesn't really provide much more enjoyment. And of course, when you understand the first principles that we're operating with, is it really necessary to,

to just add another 2000 calories, 3000 calories to the surplus for the day? Not really, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So I can definitely identify with that, but I guess that on the other side of that, you know, when you do have a, you know, catastrophic day and you feel terrible and regret it, one thing that I found is, you know, your, your, your next day workout and maybe even, you know, several subsequent days are, are pretty spectacular. You just have this new focus of, uh, yeah, I'm not going to do that for a while and I'm going to get back on the horse. I'm going to kick some ass and really make the best out of my time here when I'm when I'm focusing on working out. And I guess that was the thought that I had was kind of the last most important thing that I found about this path was that I've changed several times, I've changed the way that

I do things several times when I've plateaued. And one article that I would changed several times. I've changed the way that I do things several times when I've plateaued. And one article that I would kind of point to was, you know, I've plateaued, I think, four times in the, I think, 80 pounds that I lost. Four times that I kind of, you know, probably anywhere from one to two months where I just, you know, couldn't lose any weight. I wasn't seeing any differences in the mirror. And I just felt like I wasn't making any more progress. But I knew that there was more to go. I knew there was more progress to make. And so I pointed to an article that you wrote. I don't know when you wrote it, but it was way back. It's like, listen, it's a simple equation. If you're plateauing, you're either not moving enough or you're eating too much. Figure out what it is you need to change

and change it. And so it's like, okay, well, I don't want to eat less because I already feel like I'm starving myself. So, you know, what is it about my routine that I need to change? And that's gone both ways. As I've gotten leaner, I've found that, you know, the types of workouts that I do tend to be either less effective or more effective. One thing that I've found is I actually did get more lean was that I make a lot less progress by doing just so much high intensity interval training. I make a lot more progress when I kind of stick to the weightlifting and just really kind of focus on my diet. And I feel less fatigued that way just in the regular course of the day and have a little more time to myself. You know, and when you're kind of at this stage where you're just kind of maintaining,

you're not really trying to do anything, you know, just kind of don't really want to get bigger. Don't really want to get smaller. You just kind of want to maintain it. It's like, uh, you kind of, you can drop off some of the things that you were focusing on before. And, and I think a willingness to change has been kind of the, uh, me, because there have been times where it's like, man, I was either not lifting enough or not moving enough or, you know, eating too much or not tracking my calories close enough. And just being willing, being accepting that, you know, the routine that you have might not be the right one, even regardless of how used to it you are. Just that willingness to change, I think, has been crucial. team that you have might not be the right one, even regardless of how used to it you are, just that willingness to change, I think, has been crucial. And I think that if people can sort of accept that, that if something doesn't work, just try something else for a little while. Try a different path and see if you see results. If you see results and it's not killing you,

maybe that'll work. So that's one thing that I think that you've sort of written about that's helped me personally that it's been good. Yeah. To that point with high intensity interval training, I was a bigger proponent of it years ago than I am now that that time there was research that was showing that it was possibly more promising than just being more difficult, just burning more calories in a shorter amount of time, that there may be some unique mechanisms whereby you will just lose fat faster with high intensity interval training than lower intensity cardio that are not simply explained by calorie expenditure. And fast forward to today, and I think the weight of

the evidence is clear that that's probably not true and that the primary benefit is just you burn more calories in less time. But that depends on how you're doing your high intensity interval training, because of course you're burning a lot of calories when you're sprinting, not, you don't have to be sprinting on the ground, of course, but let's say you're on a bike and you're doing your sprints, but then you have your rest periods where you're not burning many calories. So if those sprints are too short and those rest periods are too long, the calorie expenditure may even out to, it may take a little bit more time, but, or not, it may be like, let's

say, let's say 15 minutes of, of high intensity interval training. And again, the sprints are short, the rest periods are long or 15 minutes of high intensity interval training. And again, the sprints are short, the rest periods are long, or 15 minutes of lower, maybe moderate-ish intensity. Let's give it like a four out of 10, maybe a five out of 10 where you could, maybe we wouldn't record a podcast while doing it, but we could be on the phone

and we're gonna be huffing and puffing, but we could still have a conversation about that level of intensity. The calorie expenditure may even out where high intensity interval training will win out is if you are fit enough to have longer sprint periods, not longer than your rest periods per se, but longer, like maybe one-to-one sprint to rest periods. And so now I'm actually, I'm, I'm finishing up a, it's really, it's really a fourth edition of bigger, leaner, stronger. And I'm also going to be applying these changes to thinner, leaner, stronger, and in the cardio section, I'm going to, I explain some of this. And so I'd say my current recommendation on cardio is that it's great to do.

And I do recommend including it in your regimen, even if you are mostly just interested in getting bigger and stronger. It has health benefits, but it actually can help improve your performance and your strength training. And I talk about why. And as for how to go about it, I recommend that you do most of your cardio. It can be higher intensity. It doesn't have to just be walking. Although walking is perfectly fine. If, if you understand that it doesn't burn

that many calories, it burns more than most people think a few hundred an hour, but it's not the same as hopping on a bike and, and, you know, peddling around for, yeah. Or even just at what I was saying, a five out of 10, you're going to, you're going i was saying a five out of ten you're gonna you're gonna burn quite quite a you're gonna burn those three to four hundred calories in 30 minutes right so though to make most of that cardio low or moderate intensity and if you want to supplement that regimen with a little bit of high intensity probably no more than an hour per week then you can and there are some reasons to do that and i'm going to talk about that but, but talk about things changing. My position has changed. Whereas previously I was like, if you're going to do cardio, you might as well just get the most bang for the buck. And

yeah, hit is difficult, but if you do something that is not high impact like bicycling, and you don't have to even go outside to do that. Not that going outside is bad, but it's pretty convenient to just have an upright bike. You can hop on and do your sprints and, uh, and you know, maybe 20 minutes, a few times a week and you're done again. I don't think that was bad advice, but, uh, the advice that I'm sharing in these updated fourth editions, uh, I think is better and it's just, it's just better for the crowd that I'm addressing. It's better for people like you and like me, who we care about our body composition. We care about being healthy. Uh, but we don't care if, uh, we can't, uh, win the triathlon because you know, our, our sprint capacity is just not there.

Yeah. To that point. Yeah. I think when I was early on and, you know, 265 pounds, uh, you know, I really moving and doing anything would have helped. Uh, just, just the fact that I was moving was, was a good thing. Uh, and as, uh, you know, I've gotten leaner, it's just that the, the, the approach has changed. And I think that that's, it's been for the best. And I think that, you know, I've got more time to do other things now instead of just exercise all day, which is a good thing for sure. It's one of the big payoffs of maintenance of getting to that point where you're just happy with your physique and you're happy with your health. And sure, you want it to improve because nothing just stays exactly the same, right? Things are either getting better or worse, even if it's in very small amounts that are not obvious in the day-to-day. So yes, you want things to continue on an upward trajectory, but you are

not as concerned with the steepness of that trajectory as you were a year or two ago, you know? Yeah. And I think that, you know, to the point you made on, you know, just having a different position on things at first, I remember you in the first book, you'd mentioned, you know, intermittent fasting, you know, you weren't really a proponent of it. And then this latest book, uh, you're more of a proponent of it, but you know, for not the same reasons as most people are. And I think, uh, you know, I, as I've gotten older and kind of moved along the path, I've realized, you know, I'll try different things out just to, uh, you know, give it, give it a whirl and see how I like it. And, uh, you know, intermittent fasting is one of those things. When it comes to

managing a weekly calorie maintenance schedule, intermittent fasting makes it a lot more manageable. You can kind of load up at dinnertime more than you would otherwise. And that's a great reason to do it. Some people, they just like to eat that way. They're naturally not very hungry in the morning. They don't really care to eat breakfast food. That doesn't mean anything to them. And they like to eat fewer, larger meals, especially if you like to eat your larger meals at night. I'm the same way.

I don't follow any kind of intermittent fasting protocol because I do have a scoop of protein powder and I put a scoop of my green supplement in it and a scoop of my post-workout. I just mix it all together. But I do eat very light. So that's a very light breakfast, obviously. And then my lunch is a salad with some chicken, maybe some other stuff thrown in, uh, depending on if I want to add some variety, but it's pretty light. And then I'll have another protein shake in the afternoon. So again, not too many calories mostly protein with

some vegetables i'll throw in some fruit here and there as little snacks because i like to get in about two to three servings of fruit per day but i prefer to have a bigger dinner and even even after dinner i like to eat some oatmeal with some nuts and some protein powder so i you know i i would be the kind of yeah i would be the kind of person who would like intermittent fasting if I cared to completely skip breakfast. But I don't. I do prefer to have something usually around nine. And I mean, I guess before that, I also I drink, I have a cappuccino that I make. So I'm not going to give up that. I like my, I go outside, I read, I drink my coffee. That alone is not worth it to me, to fall an intermittent fasting diet. I hear you. Yeah, I hear you. You got to be careful with the caffeine, though. If you're like me, some people are like a pot of coffee a day kind of guy.

I can really throw it down if I'm not careful. Yeah, I stick with four shots of espresso in the morning and that's it. Sometimes I will have one scoop of caffeinated, uh, pulse, the stim stimmed pulse. So that'd be an extra one 75 before I go train, but usually not. It's usually just, um, three to 400, uh, milligrams first thing in the morning. And that's it. Because unfortunately, I am a bit sensitive to it. If I have caffeine consistently in the afternoon, I can get away with it here and there. But if I do it two, three days in a row, it starts impacting my sleep, unfortunately. Yep. Same here. And then, you know, you start supplementing with, you know, something to help you sleep. And you're like, wait, what am I doing?

Do I like caffeine that much? I can just stop drinking as much caffeine. Yeah. And that's the other thing. Supplementation, I think a lot of your guidance is pretty good. It's just like, listen, there's no supplement out there that's going to completely change you. But there's lots of great supplements out there that can certainly enhance what you're already doing, which I think is another good lesson from a lot of the readings is that there's some good stuff out there that's proven to work.

Protein being, first and foremost, one of the most important. Picking good protein and just getting on a schedule and just monitoring everything. Exactly. That's never going to change. I'll say if it ever does change, no, it just won't. It won't. Look at even as far as body composition goes, the wonder supplement, creatine. I don't know if there's ever going to be another. Maybe someday. I don't know of anything on the horizon that shows promise to be the next creatine. There are some things that seem to help in similar, in similar like bottom line results, like beta alanine seems to help you gain muscle faster, regardless of what it does in, in,

in terms of improving your performance, not, not mechanistically similar to creatine, but the results are similar in that it appears to just enhance muscle gain, again, separate to enhancing your workout performance. But the effects are not as significant as creatine. But you look at the effects of creatine, they're completely insignificant if you compare creatine to testosterone, for example. And again, creatine is like the gold standard of body comp supplements. And so supplements will always be supplementary by definition. It's just not going to change. Right. I wish it were otherwise as somebody who has a supplement company, but that's just the reality. And there's no reason to pretend

otherwise. To that point, I was going to say gonna say yeah i tried some of your uh your protein there's one that's like a fruity cereal and i'll tell you it does it kind of reminds you of like like liquid fruit loops i was like this is really weird like i did a double take on the ingredients i was like is this is this like liquid fruit loops for fruity pebbles that was that yeah that one's popular a lot of people were surprised because we obviously use all natural ingredients and flavoring naturally is much more difficult and sweetening naturally is much more difficult. And I was impressed with what they did with that. That's become one of the few flavors that are in my rotation these days.

I usually have like three or four that I like to switch between, and that's one of them. Yep, good stuff. Really good stuff. Awesome, man. Well, hey, this was a lot of fun. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this and definitely keep me posted on your progress going forward. progress going forward, but it sounds like you've reached that point. It sounds like you've reached it some time ago, but it's always fun for me to see people reach that point where the lifestyle that I'm promoting is, and it's not just me, obviously, this is promoted by a lot of people,

but the fitness lifestyle and a healthy, balanced fitness lifestyle is just something that you do now. They get to that point where they're like, I've done this enough. I have the habits established and this is just what I do now. And you know that you can do that now for the rest of your life. And I'm guessing you've reached that point where you've decided you're never going back to the way it was. Yep. That's 100% true. People always ask, I mean, getting to that point where, I mean, people stop you on the beach and they're like, what in the world are you doing? You know, it's like, you know, and then they immediately ask for advice. And a lot of times I just, I throw out the Mike Matthews books.

I'm just like, listen, you want a good place to start? Try these books. Because it's where I started and it led me down Pandora's box. And now I've just got this toolkit of things that I follow. And it's ever-changing, but it is always the same at the same time. Yeah, it's like changing, but it is always the same at the same time. Right. Yeah. It's like the core never changes, right? Because it is these, we're dealing with first principles that don't change, but it's the trappings, it's the window dressing.

There are many different ways to set that stuff up, but you now know what simply is non-negotiable, right? Some of the things are negotiable, some of them are not. Exactly. Yep. And many thanks to you and for doing what you do, because I think the voice that you have in your books and kind of the, you know, the entertainment of reading the books, you know, it's funny here and there. I think that that's what kind of, you know, got me interested and intrigued, you know, to spend an entire flight reading chapter after chapter and kind of delving in and then doing my own research. So kudos to you there.

But yeah, yeah, definitely something I hope to maintain going forward. Thank you. Thank you. And I appreciate the support. And it's funny. A lot of people say the same thing and that it's easy for them when they get asked for advice. They're like, you know, honestly, just go check out this guy's stuff and go check out his blog.

Search probably any question you have. You're going to find something on it. Whereas when I get asked questions, I feel like I can't just say, oh, just read my book. It would come off wrong, right? So it's just funny that I'll get wrapped up in conversations probably more than you would because I don't want to be rude and say, yeah, whatever, just buy my book. Stop asking me questions. Not that I would

say it that way, but that's how it would come off. Yeah, you certainly could. And they'd probably thank you for it. Yeah. But anyway, great job. Thanks again. Keep it up. Thanks so much, man. Anyway, great job. Thanks again. Keep it up. Thanks so much, man. which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you. And if you didn't like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email, mike at muscleforlife.com, muscleforlife.com, and let me know what I could do better or just what your thoughts are about maybe what

you'd like to see me do in the future. I read everything myself. I'm always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode and I hope to hear from you soon.