Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Marc Perry’s Favorite Time-Proven Fitness Tips for 40+-Year-Olds

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

“I don’t have time to workout.” “Eating properly is too hard.” “I’ve tried it all before. Fitness just doesn’t work for me.” I get hundreds of emails every day and often hear stuff like that, and especially from folks in their mid-30s and 40s. Whether they’ve fallen off the wagon and want to get in shape again, or have never really tried to achieve any serious fitness goals, these people are frustrated. And I understand. Building muscle and losing fat isn’t easy. Creating a sustainable lifestyle that allows you to stay consistent over the long-haul is even harder. That’s especially true when you have a busy professional career and a spouse and family to attend to, and even more so if you also need to travel frequently. That’s why I invited Marc Perry back on the podcast. In case you’re not familiar with Marc, he's the creator of BuiltLean.com and specializes in helping men in their mid-30s and beyond create systems and habits that allow them to reach their fitness goals faster and enjoy themselves along the way. In this episode, we discuss . . . - The different stages of getting fit as you get older - Unique challenges of getting in shape especially with hectic work and home lives - Where to start if you’re out of shape - The benefits of crawling - The importance of accountability - And much more . . . So if you’re 35 or older and want some actionable fitness advice that goes beyond “tough love,” give this podcast a listen! 13:10 - How would you start to form an individual program for a person? 16:39 - What do you with people who are in stage one and want to reach the next level? 18:27 - What are some common habits and beliefs you work on with people during stage one? What is the winning mindset? 25:56 - How can you change the mindset of “I can’t eat properly”? 27:38 - What are some common examples to eating properly and forming a habit? 51:07 - What type of workouts do you typically have your clients do? 52:33 - What are some of your favorite exercises to do and have your clients do? 55:01 - What are the benefits of crawling smoothly? 57:11 - What does the form look like to crawl correctly? Where can I find more information on crawling? 1:02:13 - Where can people find you and your work? Mentioned on The Show: Shop Legion Supplements Here: legionathletics.com/shop/ Marc Perry's Website: www.builtlean.com/ Want to get my best advice on how to gain muscle and strength and lose fat faster? Sign up for my free newsletter! Click here: www.legionathletics.com/signup/

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Muscle for Life. I am Mike Matthews. Thank you for being here. Now, over the last six or seven years now, since I've been in the fitness racket, I have sent and received, my inbox is over 150,000 emails now, and I get hundreds of emails every day. And a few things that I hear fairly often are some variants of, I don't have time to work out, or eating properly is too hard, or I've tried everything and I'm still out of shape. I guess fitness doesn't work for me. I guess it's just not in the cards. And I hear these things, especially from people who are in their mid thirties is where it starts and then older forties, fifties and beyond. Now, whether these people have fallen off the wagon and they're just trying to get back into

shape again, or in some cases, they've never even tried to get in shape. They've never really been serious about fitness. They are frustrated. And I understand building muscle and losing fat is not easy and maintaining a great physique is much harder. Creating a sustainable lifestyle that allows you to stay consistent over the long haul is the holy grail and is something that few people achieve, and especially people who are older because they now have busy lives, they have careers, they have spouses, they have families, you know, kids to attend to. And oftentimes these people travel fairly frequently as well, and that makes things even more difficult. And all that is why I invited

Mark Perry back on the podcast. I had him on some time ago to talk about how to stay very lean year round, practical tips for achieving that. And that episode did very well. One of my better performing episodes that I've ever done. So if that sounds even remotely interesting to you, then go check it out. You'll find it in the feed. You're gonna have to go back a bit because again, it was posted, I don't know, maybe two years ago. And so coming to the topic at hand, I invited Mark to come back because this is really what he specializes in. So he is the creator of builtlean.com and his forte is helping men in particular who are in their mid thirties and beyond create systems and habits that allow them to reach their fitness goals. So allow them to get bigger, get stronger, stay lean, and maintain it,

and enjoy their lives. Enjoy their meal plans, enjoy their workouts, not feel like they are beating themselves into a pulp in the gym or burning themselves out with a highly restrictive and unsustainable diet and so forth. And so in this episode, Mark and I discuss things like the different stages of fitness as you get older, because things do change a bit from your 20s to your 40s, for example. Some of the unique challenges of getting in shape and especially when you have a hectic work and home life. Where to start right now if you are, let's say, 40 plus and out of shape. The benefits of crawling, his take on that was interesting. The importance of accountability and much more. So if you are in your mid to late 30s or beyond, and you would like some practical, actionable fitness tips that go beyond just tough love, suck it up, work harder,

I think you're going to like this interview. Now, before we get to the show, if you like what I'm doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, and if you want to help me help more people get into the best shape of their lives, please do consider supporting my sports nutrition company, Legion Athletics, which produces 100% natural evidence-based health and fitness supplements, including protein powders and protein bars, pre-workout and post-workout supplements, fat burners, multivitamins, joint support, and more. Every ingredient and dose in every product of mine is backed by peer-reviewed scientific research. Every formulation is 100% transparent, no proprietary blends, and everything is naturally sweetened and flavored. To check it out, just head over to legionathletics.com.

And just to show how much I appreciate my podcast peeps, use the coupon code MFL at checkout, and you will save 20% on your entire order if it is your first purchase with us. And if it is not your first purchase, then you will get double reward points on your entire order, which is essentially getting 10% cash back in rewards points. So again, that URL is legionathletics.com. And if you appreciate my work and if you want to see more of it, please do consider supporting me so I can keep doing what I love, like producing podcasts like this. Hey, Mark, welcome back, man. It's been a while. Thank you so much, Mike. I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. I'm glad to have you because you're a cool guy. You know a lot of things. And the reason why I originally, I mean, we've been in touch via email, but we haven't spoken in a while

is I was looking back over episodes that I've done in the past, which were most popular. And yours was right up there at the top. It was like number one or number two, number three, something like that. So I was like, oh, I should go back to people who I know, who I like and who I know have good information to share and who have already proven themselves with my crowd. And so here we are. It's awesome. I'm happy to help out. And I'm really happy to hear that it went well. Yeah, yeah. So for anybody wondering, the last time, if you want to go find the interview, it was Mark was talking about, because one of the things that is his superpower physically,

that at least as far as I can tell, is he stays very lean year round and he does it in a way that's sustainable. For some people, I mean, we don't have to get, you can just go listen to that interview if you want to get into the specifics. For some people, it's not sustainable because they don't want to have to pay attention to their calorie intake much. And I understand that. But if you are willing to at least pay attention to what you eat and you don't necessarily

have to like weigh everything, but he shared good strategies for just staying quite lean year round without hating your life, basically. And that discussion, a lot of people liked and it got shared around a lot. And so this time around, what we're going to talk about is something different. It is something that it's good timing for a couple of reasons. One is, well, I'd say it's a good topic for a couple of reasons. One, it's something that I haven't spoken that much about, but I have written a little bit about and spoken a little about. And whenever I do touch on it, it gets a lot of response. And that is some advice specifically for, let's say the 35 plus crowd, definitely the

40 plus crowd. But I've found that people, and we'll get into this, the psychology around training and the expectations and the goals starts to shift for most people once they reach their mid-30s in good ways and bad ways. Depending on where a person's at, that can mean that they should be going about their fitness a bit differently than they did when they were in their 20s or than they would have if they were in their 20s if they haven't gotten started yet. This is a good topic to talk about because the next book project that I'm going to get working on after I finish the second edition of Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, which I'm chipping away at every day and I'm plus crowd. And the reason why I think that's a good idea is I hear from these people. Every single day I get emailed from people who are generally in their forties, but again, I've seen it start in their thirties, guys and gals who

have read Bigger, Leaner, Stronger or Thinner, Leaner, Stronger and emailed me to ask like, is this for me? Can I do this? Is it too late? And those are just kind of general concerns or having very specific issues like certain past injuries or just restrictions, limitations, and wondering, hey, how do I work around this? And so that's why I was like, okay, I need to actually create a book because there is a lot to say that the Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, Thinner, Leaner, Stronger were written more with, I would say, up to probably mid-30s in mind. And most people that have done well in those programs are, say, up to about 40s. And then there are quite a few people in their 40s and even into their 50s who have done well with it.

It's just if I look at it in terms of the bell curve right there in the middle is probably from 18 to 40. Those are most of the people. And if I were to write a book specifically for the 40 plus crowd, it is a different discussion. Some of the stuff is going to be no different, like energy balance is energy balance. But there are a lot of things that actually do need to be discussed differently and there are different myths to address and different kind of fundamentals to discuss and then different implementation in terms of like what to do in the gym. And so after five minutes of rambling, hijacking the conversation, that's what I wanted to bring Mark on to talk about because this is really what he specializes in is working with people who are

busy. And let's just say 35 plus in many cases were once fit, but not now anymore, or maybe were never fit, were never into working out and also maybe do have some injuries that they've sustained in the past that now limit what they can do or are concerned about not wanting to get hurt. And when those people were to read, when they do, when they read my books, Bigger Than You're Stronger or Thinner Than You're Stronger, which tell them, hey, get in the gym, start squatting, start deadlifting, start bench pressing. That can work certainly. And it can work for people who are in their 40s and even 50s and even 60s. I've heard from people in their 60s, but you do need to be in a pretty good place physically. You don't have to be fit per se, but you have to have a body that works

pretty well that isn't going to hurt or get hurt when you do get in there and start squatting some weight and deadlifting some weight and so forth. So long preamble, but that's what we're here to talk about. And over to you, Mark. I think it's a great overview. And so, yeah, I focus on really helping these guys get consistent with their exercise and eating, right? Because the truth is, I mean, how many guys are really consistent with both their eating and exercise for a sustained period of time, right? The answer is usually pretty few guys, right? And so, you know, I help a lot of these guys. At one point, they might have been fit,

you know, so maybe some of these guys are yo-yo diet, like have this yo-yo style. Maybe they're kind of a spectator. They're maybe on the sidelines looking in, they're kind of thinking about getting back in the game, or maybe they're just hit a plateau and they're like, man, I just need to lose that 10, 15 pounds. I just can't figure it out. I really help these guys get results as efficiently as possible and really sustain them for the longterm. And just to be clear, do you work mostly with men or exclusively with men? Yeah, that's a great question. As of now, it's exclusively with men. In the past, it's been 90% men. So I'm like, you know what? I think it's best for everyone to really just focus on guys because I think they have unique challenges and that's what I focus on.

Okay, good. And also in my experience, I have a coaching program, which I don't personally coach anybody currently. And it's no, it's like I'm pretending people don't think they're working with me. I have a whole team of people, but our female clients almost always prefer to work with our female coaches. And, and I understand because when you're talking to a guy about you, anything related to fitness, you are speaking in terms that he thinks in, like you really do understand exactly who you're talking to because you probably were in his exact position at some point in your life. And you understand the unique obstacles that guys face, both physical and psychological. And the same thing goes for women. That doesn't mean that a guy can't be an effective coach for a woman, but humans, we tend to just like people like us instinctively more than people who are not like us.

And gender is a big aspect of that. And so I've just found that women tend to do better or at least they tend to be happier working with women. woman who, again, has gone through the whole experience herself is going to really understand another woman going through it better than you or I would, even if we can intellectually understand, oh yeah, this is probably what it's like, you know? Absolutely. And I think it's also very personal, right? Like fitness is personal. It's your body, it's your health, it's your life. And so, you know, that certainly plays a factor as well. Yeah, absolutely. So let's start with, okay, so let's say you're speaking to a guy and he is in his mid to late thirties or beyond,

and he is not in shape now, and maybe he was in shape in the past or not. Like where do things start changing in terms of your recommendations? Cause there's that like, okay, let's just say where it's definitely going to be different is what kind of physical impairments does he have? Does he have any, or how do you take somebody and then start tailoring a program? And what are some of the things to consider that maybe a 20 year old wouldn't even think about? Right. That's a great question. I think ultimately, it's really like a strategy session where we want to really understand the current situation. Like, where is this person really at? Right? Like, when's the last time they exercised or are they exercising? What are they doing? When they have fallen off, why have they fallen off? And we also wanted to kind of dig into their nutrition and even lifestyle. So, it's really, we want to get

a nice flavor for like what their current situation is and kind of where they've come from in the past. And then ultimately we want to establish kind of what their goal really is. And I think a lot of people would be surprised. Most guys could not clearly articulate what their goal is like, okay, I want to get this by this date. Very, very few. Right. And so I think helping guys crystallize where they really want to go is hugely this date. Very, very few, right? And so I think helping guys crystallize where they really want to go is hugely valuable. So it's really a combination of like crystallizing the current situation where they are. And by the way, helping guys express this, because as we both know, like guys just aren't as communicative as ladies in general. And so like helping guys

express and create awareness for like, okay, here's my current situation. Here's where I really want to go. And then I can, you know, create something that really helps bridge the gap. And how does that discussion usually go with people that you work with? Let's just say, yeah, say this is a 40 year old guy and he's not in shape now. What are some, I mean, you're going to guide those discussions toward realistic expectations. So how does that look for the average guy? I think we could probably lump, I think you would agree, probably what, at least 35 to 45, if not 35 to maybe 50. I've written about this, in my opinion, you can look at things in terms of phases, right? So there are just ranges of,

if you're in this kind of phase of your fitness and in this age, and that would range from this to this, here's generally what you should be doing. Here's generally what you should be expecting. Here's generally what you should be avoiding type of view, you know? Right, right. I think that's a great point. And so like one way I think about is in terms of stages, right? Like kind of stage one is kind of like maybe 30 plus pounds to lose. Like you kind of fall off the wagon, maybe the weight creep. A lot of guys, it's like, okay, you have kids, you get a new job, you got a longer commute. And next thing you know, you're like, your weight is creeping up and it's creeped up for like five, 10 years. You're like, oh my goodness, what's going on? And so that's

one area. And then I think phase two is kind of like, usually it's a little bit, and typically, and again, this isn't perfect, right? Like obviously the phases kind of flow together, or stage one, the guy may not be exercising at all, right? And he may not be eating well at all. And then stage two is usually maybe 10 to 30 pounds to lose. Maybe he's exercising here and there. He might even be exercising consistently, but his eating to 30 pounds to lose. Maybe he's exercising here and there. He might even be exercising consistently, but his eating's all over the place. Maybe he travels a lot. He's just having trouble finding the time to exercise, right?

And to get everything to work together. And then stage three is really, okay, I'm within striking distance of my goal. Maybe he's hit a plateau and he just needs to like lose the last 10 to like really feel great and just make some optimization improvements. And so, of course, again, they're not like clear cut, right? Like it depends on the person, like some guys who are 30 plus pounds, like they actually exercise relatively consistently, but it's really, I think those are kind of like three general stages. At least those are the guys that I've worked with a lot in the past. And now that makes sense. Let's take the first stage and talk a bit about that of like, what do you do with those guys to help them get really it's to the second stage, right?

Right, right. It's a great question, Mike. And it's like the million dollar question, right? It's like, how do you help someone make difficult changes? And I think in the industry, it's like, oh, it's all mechanical. So if you do this running, and you do this eating, and then everything works out. But I think it's really a mindset shift. And it's really, and as you've written about, like in the little book of, you know, workout motivation, it's a mindset thing, right? Like a lot of people say it's 80% nutrition, 20% exercise. And I'm like, after doing this for so long, I'm like, no, it's a hundred percent mindset. Right. And so ultimately I think it's really helping these guys become aware. And I kind of mentioned this, become aware of like, what are their challenges? What are their limiting beliefs that they have about exercise? It's like, why are they really in the situation they're in and helping them become more aware of their habits and create better behaviors. And so maybe that involves some type of like journaling, like, you know, food journaling,

it might involve, of course, we want to establish like a specific goal and a reason, but a lot of it is around this kind of mindset shift and behavior change. Because at the end of the day, like, I mean, obviously, what we really do, again, for someone who's not super, super motivated, like, oh, yeah, I can't wait to get up at 5am and work out today. It's ultimately behavior change, right? It's about adopting healthy behaviors that are sustainable. And then, you and then implementing them. Not to talk too much, but I think it really comes down to two things. It's beliefs and habits.

And so I help these guys who are in that stage. And ultimately it's actually all stages, but particularly the stage one, it's like we really got to work on the beliefs they have around their health and their fitness and even their life in some sense, in some cases. And then also begin implementing some habits that are going to give them the best bang for their buck. What are some of the common ones that you work on with guys? And then what's the winning

mindset? What do you want to work them toward? Those are great questions. I mean, there's a laundry list, as you know, of limiting beliefs, but I'd say the top ones are, I just don't have the time. I just don't have the time. Another is, I have a hectic schedule. I just don't have the ability to eat properly because my life sometimes gets like a tornado. And then I think another limiting belief is that they just are unable to change, right? They're unable to kind of get the results they really want. So they have this vision in their mind of the goal they have. And they just be like, there's no way I can achieve it. There's just no way like I've just got, you know, kids, I'm busy, I'm getting older. So I'm kind of rattling off limiting beliefs and

as a part of this one, but you know, I'm getting older, I can't do this. It's just a laundry list, but it really relates to the fact that they've kind of given up hope on their ability to achieve great results, which the truth is they can achieve incredible results. It's just their own limiting beliefs that are holding them back. Yeah, I totally agree. Let's dive into those a bit more. And it's interesting that some people might be thinking like, oh, are those really beliefs though? I don't have time or maybe I don't have the energy. Like I only have so much time. Look at how busy my schedule is. But I totally agree with you in that. Okay, let's talk about time, right? So if you are going to have that discussion with somebody, what does that look like? I'm suspecting that it goes in the direction of priorities, right? Like it's not that you don't have the time. It's that you are not giving it the time, right? Like it's not that you don't have the time. It's that you are not giving it the time, right? That's huge. And also when people just throw the, I don't have the time objection, so to speak, they really do. So what I have done is I've developed a program that's three

workouts a week for 30 minutes based on strength circuits. You literally get flexibility, conditioning, and strength benefits. And it's like, like anyone can do three workouts a week for 30 minutes, right? Like it's hard to say you can't. And anybody thinking, oh, I don't know if I can, how much TV do you watch? How much are you on YouTube or whatever? Yeah. And so, or social media, if it's zero minutes, then I'm impressed. And then we can go to the next thing on the list, but I'm most people will be like, okay, fine. Exactly. And I think another thing is people just say they don't have the time because they have no structure, right? And so that's another big theme is like, all of a sudden, when we kind of create

a little bit of structure, they're like, oh, yeah, like, I can definitely do this a few times a week. And we'll literally and you brilliantly pointed out in the little motivation book, it's like, we establish what they're going to do, when they're going to do it, and where they're going to do it. That has a dramatic impact is all of a sudden the human brain is like, okay, done. I've got it done. So we lock in specific days and times they're going to do a specific type of workout. And so anyways, yeah, the time objection, it's typically a matter of priorities and lack of structure. Yep. That's a lack of structure is a good point too, where I've corresponded with so many people over the years now, but I've had people keep time journals before just so they

can get an idea of where their time's going. And often like when they've said, oh, my life is so chaotic and things are changing every day. And I don't know when I could schedule workouts and say, okay, well for a week, why don't you just track everything that you're doing? Like from the minute that you wake up until the moment you go to bed in the the notepad app on your phone, you don't have to have a journal or an app, anything fancy, just keep notes on exactly what you're doing when you're doing it. And they were often surprised that how much time was just being frittered away on frivolous things. away on frivolous things. And if they were to apply a couple simple time management techniques, like just blocking, for example, saying, okay, at work, I'm going to do this type of work all at this time. And okay, I'm going to take some time on Sunday and meal prep. So I'm not like frantically running around trying to decide what to eat every day or find food or whatever, that they were then able to consistently have blocks of time that they could

say, okay, I can give that to exercise. And 80, 90% of the time, I'll be able to stick to that. Sometimes things change. And that happens to me as well. I'm sure it happens to you. Life can get in the way and maybe you can't do exactly what you wanted to do or what you plan to do. But one day, two days a month or whatever, even if it's a few days a month, but so long as you are mostly good most of the time, that's all it takes. We don't need to be perfect, right? Absolutely. And by the way, I think the time journal is so powerful and it's almost like a food journal. Like even if you do it just for a few days, it can be useful. But like, I mean, the time journal is so powerful because all's also when you start to realize, I think one big element is you're eating sometimes takes a long time.

It's like, oh, like, if you're at the office, and you need to go like pick up some lunch, it's like next thing you know, it's just, it's like waiting in line. And then there are little things that you don't, you aren't really fully appreciating, like how long and it's like, oh, my gosh, I'm spending like an hour just like somehow procuring or food or something a day easily. And so as you're saying, it's like, yeah, you're frittering away all this time in your day. And it's almost become like something you don't realize until you actually journal it and make it aware and you become aware of it. Yeah. You know, it's actually probably worth doing when you say, I think of for me, for anybody, once a quarter or something, just for a week and then step back and look now, okay, where is my time going? Does this really make, does this make sense? Are there any obvious kind of yellow or red

flags where it's like, oh, wait, like you're just saying like, wait, I'm spending how much time on, I didn't even realize that I'm spending that much time on something that I could easily, realize that I'm spending that much time on something that I could easily, whether it's delegate or make more efficient or just eliminate altogether. It's probably just a useful exercise, particularly for people who are busy and who are trying to get the most out of every day and who don't like feeling behind or overwhelmed. Absolutely. Totally agree. Hey, if you like what I am doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, and if you want to help me help more people get into the best shape of their lives, please do consider supporting my sports nutrition company, Legion Athletics, which produces 100%

natural evidence-based health and fitness supplements, including protein powders and bars, pre-workout and post-workout supplements, fat burners, multivitamins, joint support, and more. Every ingredient and every dose in every product is backed by peer-reviewed scientific research. Every formulation is 100% transparent. There are no proprietary blends and everything is naturally sweetened and flavored. To check everything out, just head over to legionathletics.com. And just to show how much I appreciate my podcast peeps, use the coupon code MFL at checkout, and you will save 20% on your entire order if it is your first purchase with us. And if it is not your first purchase with us, you will get double reward points on your entire

order. That's essentially 10% cash back in rewards points. So again, the URL is legionathletics.com. And if you appreciate my work and want to see more of it, please do consider supporting me so I can keep doing what I love, like producing podcasts like this. Let's talk about I can't eat properly, that objection. Right. So I think it really comes back to a lot of structure. So there are a few different kind of challenges guys have, right? One might be kind of late night snacking. One might be they're doing pretty well during the week and then the weekend spiral happens

and then it's just complete chaos during the week or just can't keep with the eating during the weekend or, you know, maybe just dinner in general. It's like they eat pretty well for breakfast and lunch. And then like dinner is just the whole idea of portions just goes out the window, right? It's like, okay, I'm just gonna stuff my face. And so I think it comes back to what we talked about. It's like creating new beliefs and new empowering beliefs. Like maybe you don't have to eat a ton of food at night because it affects your sleep, right? It's like kind of making that causal relationship because if you eat a huge meal at night, it's absolutely going to affect your sleep. Especially if you of alcohol sometimes. And so I think changing

beliefs, creating new empowering beliefs, and also creating specific tactics. And as we were talking about a little bit more structure. So a lot of guys, it's like they skip breakfast. What guy hasn't said they're intermittent fasting, right? It's like everyone's, oh yeah, I've intermittent fasted. That's what I'm doing right now. But it's like, at the end of the day, creating structure can really, really help and creating like specific, like fallback meals or go-to meals can be really helpful as well. How does that look specifically for people that you work with? It really depends. Just for people wondering, like, what are some common examples? Because chances are, I have people listening who are probably in

similar situations to many people that you've worked with and, and feel like maybe they haven't been able to eat properly really for the same reasons or very similar reasons as many other people that you've worked with. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so again, I think it really depends on the person, right? Each person has their own kind of challenge and it's ideal to focus on that specific challenge. But in general, it's like coming up with even like a template, for example, it's like maybe you have a shake in the morning, you know, maybe you have a certain type of lunch in the afternoon. And then maybe you have, let's say, if your wife cooks a meal, you have a balance, let's say you emphasize more vegetables and proteins. And so I think it's really becoming more strategic.

It's like being a general, right? It's like you're the general of your own life versus being a leaf being blown in the wind. Being bullet fodder. Right, exactly. Yeah. This really comes down to what we're talking about is meal planning, really. And then you can meal plan very strictly and very specifically. I'm going to eat exactly this food and it's going to be exactly this amount and I'm going

to weigh it. And there's a time and place for that. But you can also be a lot looser with meal planning, like what you're talking about, where you have general guidelines where, okay, my first meal of the day is going to be, I'll speak personally, I just have a protein shake because it's easy. I work out and I come to the office and that's easy. And I eat an apple because I like apples, but it could be like, cool. I don't have to eat an apple. It could be some other piece of fruit if I wanted more variety. And for lunch, like what you're

saying is, okay, so let's just say it's going to be a salad of sorts. Now, depending on who you're working with, I'm sure some people are like me and probably like you, or I eat the same salad every day. I don't care. I like it. Who cares? It doesn't really mean that much to me. But if I wanted to have some more variety, it wouldn't have to be the same salad. I could change it up. I could include different ingredients, but it's going to be a salad of some kind so I

can get in leafy greens. I mean, I do it because I actually prefer to eat more of my calories later. I don't eat a huge dinner, but I like to eat lighter throughout the day when I'm working and I have to have maximum mental clarity and focus. And then when I'm done working and I'm at home later at night, I don't care if I'm eating more food and feeling more lethargic just because that's how you feel when you eat more food, period, even if it's healthy food, right? Because there is a point where like you fill your stomach with enough food, your body goes, oh, it's time to relax now and digest all

this. So then there could be a snack in the afternoon that could be very specific. I have one of my protein bars because I like them, but it also could be just a number of things. It could be like, oh, maybe if I feel like having the skier, the Icelandic yogurt with some nuts, I'll do that. Or I'll have a piece of fruit and maybe another protein shake or, and dinner, like you're saying, going, oh, okay, I'll have some lean protein, whatever we have, whether it's fish or chicken or beef, I'm going to grab some vegetables and I'm not going to weigh, you know, make sure that it's a hundred grams of vegetables, but I'm going to get a couple of handfuls and some extra carbs from whatever's available.

Is that kind of the idea? Absolutely. And one very important thing that I should have already mentioned is, you know, over many, many years, I've realized that ideally these guys not only have a system that they can follow, right? Like, okay, here's a system of like thinking about nutrition or kind of setting it up and structuring it. Here's like a system for exercise.

It's like having guidance and then accountability, right? It's like someone there kind of grading you and overseeing progress. It is a dramatic difference in results, right? So even if people or a lot of these guys like rationally or intellectually understand something, they don't implement it. It's like, well, why not? And I think having the extra guidance, the accountability, especially has a huge impact. It's like going to school and not? And I think having the extra guidance, the accountability especially has a huge impact. It's like going to school and not having like a teacher grade your papers. Like you're just not going to get that much improvement. Whereas I think it's just hugely valuable.

And it's a key element in helping guys really get the best results. I agree. Just having, there's the feedback element, which is crucial. And then there is just that point of it makes, and I'm experiencing this, so I'm learning German. In the beginning, I was doing some self where I was using SRS flashcards to build vocabulary because it's a very simple, effective way to do that. And going through a grammar book so I can start to understand because the grammar is quite different. I mean, it's not just the grammar, really the syntax of

the language is quite different than English. So started with self-study and got through about 2000 words. So I've now I've learned the 2000 most frequently used words in the language through SRS flashcards and a basic understanding of the grammar. But now there was a point where I go, okay, I could keep going with this just on my own. I could just learn the next several thousand words and then learn more grammar. But I know that I'm going to get more out of regular speaking now. Like I think now of another example of learning golf, I'll leave it to one tangent, but where I go, okay, I know now that speaking regularly is going to benefit me actually more because my vocabulary is now getting to a point where I can understand now my wife is German. So I've been listening to German for a long time,

but I never understood any of it because it's so different than English. You could listen to German speak for the rest of your life and you will know nothing. Like if you don't go about learning it, you will never figure it out. It's such a weird language. The words are different and how you structure sentences is so different that until you start understanding really how the language works and building vocabulary, it just sounds like fucking gobbledygook. And so, but now I'm at a point where I can actually start understanding a lot of the discussions she has, conversations with her

mom, for example, where there are certain words now where I'm like, I don't know what that word means, but I understood a lot of the context. And so I'm working now with a tutor. And the reason why is there's a difference speaking with a teacher. It's what she does. She teaches German for a living and speaking with my wife, because she's now kind of running the program now saying, okay, this is where you're at. This is the next thing we're going to work on. And here's how we're going to go about it. And then after that, like I can try to talk to my wife about things I just want to talk about. But the point is I've experienced this, that just what you're talking about, even with German, I'm not a person who really tends to struggle with motivation per se.

But what I found is that it definitely was getting less interesting just doing flashcards and studying a grammar book. And there was a point where now working with somebody, it makes me more interested in the activity. And the fact that I have to show up every week, we just do one lesson a week. And so I'm still working through, I'm still working on building my vocabulary and working on learning the grammar more because I might as well, but it definitely has improved my, I'd say it's just made me more interested to continue just having somebody there that I know like, okay, Sunday at 1130, I'm going to have an hour lesson with Kristen and I want to have made some progress. I don't want to just have excuses. So I'm going to make sure that I do my flashcards every day

and put some time into the grammar book as well. That makes perfect sense. And it sounds like she's got, you know, she's got a system. You've got like a step-by-step system you're following, you know, you've got the guidance and accountability and it's like, you're just going to get much, much faster results. And if you're going to do it on your own, it's like a shortcut, right? To the results you want. It totally is. And then of course, there's also the supplies to training as well. It's nice to have someone who I can ask questions to and get good answers. And in fitness, there are so many, it's worse probably than language learning. I don't really pay attention to the language learning space at all. I'm just doing what I'm doing. But in fitness, as you know,

there's so much conflicting advice out there and there are so many different ways of going about it. And some are ridiculous and others are not. Others are even perfectly workable ways to get to the same goal. And so having somebody that you can go to who also understands you and your situation and what has worked well for you and what is likely to continue working well and what is not, has worked well for you and what is likely to continue working well and what is not, to have that person you can go to, it can save you a lot of time and frustration where they can just tell you like, yeah, you don't want to do that. Yes, some people do all of that. That's probably not for you. Let's go over in this direction. That's valuable because otherwise, who knows, you might lose months and months and months

trying that other thing. And then you might not ever even find your way to where you need to be because maybe you're going to get really discouraged with maybe it's intermittent fasting and you heard like, oh, that's it. That's the ticket. And you try it and it doesn't work well for you. I hear from many women where that's the case, where they do not do well in general. It's probably related to that they're physiologically, they tend to be more carbohydrate burners than fat burners. And so what I've found working with many women is those longer extended, even if it's just an 18 or a 16-8 program, like a lean gains program, by hour 12, many women are not feeling good. So there's an example though, where they go, if they think, oh, well, but intermittent fasting is the thing. This expert says like, this is the best way to do it. And if I can't do it the best way, I'm not going to do it at all. You can avoid all that by working with somebody who is an expert and who is becoming an expert

in also you and your physiology and your needs. Couldn't agree more. And really having a system in place that works. who is becoming an expert in also you and your physiology and your needs? Couldn't agree more. And really having a system in place that works. And by the way, what we're talking about really is information overload, right? Like information is great, but it's ubiquitous and it's increasing at like an increasing rate. And so there's just so much information. One person says this, one person says that, oh, it should be only vegetarian. No, you should eat mostly meat, You know, ketogenic, intermittent fasting. Again, there's a million different ways. Oh, it should only be, you know, bodybuilding or high intensity interval training.

Again, like it's so confusing out there for a lot of guys. And I think having like, okay, one specific place that helps you, again, bridge the gap from where you are to where you want to be efficiently as possible is incredibly valuable and useful. And knowing that you can just keep going and keep getting results and you can keep getting results at a rate that makes you happy and where you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, you can see, okay, I'm going to, I am going to get to where I want to be if I just keep doing this, everything. So then it gives you

peace of mind knowing that you can just ignore everything then. Like that's the game. That's the game is like ignoring most of it. Basically, like figuring out what works for you and just sticking with that. And this is true for many people who are getting into fitness for what they want to do. They can do just that. They can figure out. And it's really just going to do the basics, the fundamentals, maybe tweak things a little bit to fit their exact needs and do just that.

And they could then ignore everything else if they wanted to and get to exactly where they want to be and be perfectly happy with their fitness and their health. Now, if they just like health and fitness and they just like learning things and it's something that's just interesting to them and they just have a curiosity that they want to scratch, well, then sure, go learn other things. Go learn about keto, go learn about intermittent fasting, go learn about HIIT, go learn about whatever. There's nothing that's totally fine as well, but there are a lot of people out there who they would rather take that time and put it into something else. They wouldn't want to spend

an hour a day just reading about health and fitness because they just want to know what they want and what they need to do to get into good shape, to look good, to feel good, to be healthy, to live a long life. And they're just going to do that. And then all their other time is going to be going to other things. And there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, that's a sweet spot for many, many people. And I totally understand. If I wasn't in the industry as a professional, I wouldn't spend as much time as I spend on health and fitness. I mean, I have many other interests as well. So I do understand that where it's like, you don't need to know most of the stuff that's out there. You don't need to know. It's not going to hurt you. It's not going to hurt you that you don't know. You're not like screwing up your body by not

intermittent fasting or not following a ketogenic diet. Much of it is not going to speed up your results either. I think that's really well said. I, you know, I think in today's day and age of like dopamine hit Instagram, you know, shiny object syndrome, where there's a million different things out there and focusing on the fundamentals, not only will help people get results more efficiently, but I mean, you can get a world class body and health if you wanted to just by focusing on the fundamentals and like ignoring 99% of what you hear. And so I know we're both very big on the kind of focusing on the principles and the fundamentals, because that's really what's going to help, you know, guys get the best results. And that's really what I've been promoting for the last 10 years.

Totally. And one final note on that, and then I want to move on to this other limiting belief that you had mentioned about, I just can't change. I'm kind of just stuck like this. But one other thing is that, and this is just top of mind for me because I am working on, I'm wrapping up this new second edition of the sequel to Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, which is meant for intermediate and even advanced weightlifters. So even there, what we're talking about, really what we're talking about is how do you get maybe the last, to put specific numbers, like this is a book called Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger for anybody listening and wondering. So this is for men specifically, and I will do one for women. It's going to be after the middle-aged book though.

and I will do one for women. It's going to be after the middle-aged book though. And so really what we're talking about is let's say the final 30% of muscle and strength gain really is what we're talking about. Like what I give in Bigger Leaner Stronger will get, I stand by the statement that I think everything in that book will allow the average guy to get the majority of the muscle and strength available to him genetically. Not all of it, but certainly more than 50% of it. And if you put that in absolute numbers, the average guy can gain probably 40, 45 pounds of muscle genetically. That's it. That's what he's going to be able to do. Bigger, leaner, stronger should be able to get him his first 20 to 30. Now, if he wants to see what else he's got, then he's going to have to do things a bit differently. But even that, so now we're talking about for that guy, he's got, then he's going to have to do things a bit differently. But even that,

so now we're talking about for that guy, he's an intermediate weightlifter, he's strong, he's gained plenty of muscle. A lot of it comes down to just more fervent application of the fundamentals. It's not that you abandon everything that you learned about progressive overload and volume and intensity and frequency and those basic training variables that you learned about progressive overload and volume and intensity and frequency and those basic training variables that you have to know how to program properly to get results. You just have to take those things and most of it is just turning up the volume knob. You just have to ratchet up the overall intensity a bit, work a bit harder in the gym on those fundamentals. And there are a few kind of, you could say, fancy advanced type of techniques that you could consider adding that I talk about

in the book. Like there's a place for drop sets. Mostly it's just time savings. There's a place for rest pause training. There's a place for calorie cycling if we're talking about dieting, but those are still more peripheral you don't necessarily need them a lot of what it comes down to still is just taking those fundamentals and doubling or even tripling down on them and i'm sure you've experienced that in your training as well absolutely i mean for someone who wants like more extreme levels of strength like for example i mean i did uh last, I pressed half my body weight over my head with one hand, like strict standing, just pressing. And it was not easy.

But the thing is, is it's just really getting good at the fundamentals. Like for example, if you want to get like insanely strong, if you can deadlift, double your body weight, like no problem, like you're going to be strong and everything else. The thing is, is you could like, no problem. Like you're going to be strong at everything else. The thing is, is you could attempt to do 15, 20 different exercises, but if you just get really good at like a deadlift or a squat or like, I mean, you're going to be a strong animal. I mean, you don't need to. And you're going to look strong. You're going to look like an animal. You'd be like, okay, I can like rip like my arms off. So the point is, is like, it doesn't take a lot. Like if you get really good at the fundamentals,

I mean, you can get beastly strong. And the same thing, like it just in terms of, you know, flexibility and conditioning, I kind of call it the exercise tribe, right? It's like strength, flexibility, and conditioning. And it's like getting a nice blend of those. And again, I think for people who want to get like beastly strong, as you were saying, like that next level, focusing on the fundamentals is great. But even people, if they just want to improve their health and well-being, the fundamentals still work. So it's really, they work in both situations. Totally. So let's shift gears quickly back to what we were talking about previously. And let's talk about the limiting belief that like, where they just think they can't change, or they're

just kind of stuck like this. And in my experience, just to add to that, oftentimes when people feel that way, they've tried and failed a number of times previously. And so in some ways, it's not even an illogical conclusion, you know, where they're like, well, I've already tried five things before and failed. So chances are, probabilistically speaking, whatever you're going to tell me to do is probably not going to work either. It's great that we're talking about this because not many people talk about this. First of all, I just want to say that. But yeah, there are a lot of guys out there like, listen, I tried this. I tried to join fasting. I tried ketogenic. I tried this exercise and it just hasn't worked. And I think it kind of goes back to what we were talking about, which is like, have they had any accountability, right?

Have they been using a system that actually works with their life? The answer is probably no. In fact, it's definitely no, right? They've kind of taken the lone wolf approach, which is what I call it, where guys just, you know, so I'm going to do everything on my own. I don't need any help. That doesn't work well for almost anyone. Like anyone who's performing at a very high level has got coaches, they've got systems in place. Like, I mean, to say the least, right? Like anyone performing at a high level at all. And oftentimes they didn't even build the systems. Like they actually just, they're just following them. Yeah, exactly. They were given to them by experts and they just go, sure. Yeah, I'll do that. Absolutely. And so, you know, it's this

kind of lone wolf approach. It's hard to understand the cause and effect of things. And so, you know, you're kind of chasing your tail. You're in this like chasing your tail, banging your head against the wall situation. Whereas, you know, if you really have a system that hits on all cylinders, it's not just like an exercise thing. It's not just an eating thing. It's like overall like mind, body,

and like health thing, right? It's like life thing. It's like you can't just slice off one little aspect and expect to make a major body change and health change. Like it's really a holistic whole thing. It's like, you can't just slice off one little aspect and expect to make a major body change and health change. Like it's really a holistic whole thing. And so anyways, as you're saying, like a system plus some guidance plus accountability, just from, again, from my experience, it's been the game changer for guys who complain, Hey, you know, it's just nothing has worked. And just an example of that is if you don't like your workouts, that is a problem. It doesn't matter.

It is. I mean, it doesn't matter how scientifically optimal they are or how many other jacked dudes swear by them. If they don't work for you because you just don't like them, you got to do something else. And that's something though that I've mentioned here and there, and I've written about it here and there, but it doesn't get that much air time in the fitness space. A lot of the advice is more just kind of aggressive. You know, this is just suck it up and no days off and stop complaining, stop being a little bitch, whatever, right? Right. Macho man. And sure, I understand. You do have to have a bit of spunk to do anything in life, including get into shape. I get that. You can't be a complete whiner or if everything doesn't work for you, well then, yeah, you're in a bad place. But that's probably not the case. And in

having worked with many people myself over the years, it's often been where while one approach to, let's say it's working out or eating, the same thing goes for diet too. If something that they were recommended, even if it's a simple, hey, this is a good general one size fits all recommendation, see if this works well for you. If it doesn't, well, then there is something that can work. For example, I've emailed with many women over the years who have gone from reading thinnerly or stronger, getting in the gym, getting strong with barbell training, losing weight, and then being like, okay, I want to do something else now. I'm very happy with what I've achieved, but it's feeling a bit stale. And then many women have enjoyed going from just kind of the solo lone wolf right in the gym, just lifting weights to classes. And they found that as a new, exciting, fun challenge that allowed them to continue to have the body they want and to be healthy and look forward again to their workouts in the same way that they did in the beginning. And then oftentimes, and again, I've been in touch with people now for years, like the same people for years, where then what they'll do is they'll come back then to barbell stuff. And it's okay if one approach doesn't work for you, Mr. or Mrs. Listener, just because it worked for somebody else. If it doesn't work for you, Mr. or Mrs. Listener, just because it worked for somebody

else. If it doesn't work for you, the thing is like, let's find what does work for you. And even if, again, you know that, let's say scientifically speaking, it's not optimal. Like optimally you would do something different or do a bit more or whatever. But if that just doesn't work for you, if you dread getting out of bed every morning to get in the gym to do it, that's not for you, period. And that's not a reflection on you as a person or that you're just not strong enough or you don't have the willpower or that could be the case. But often I don't think that is the case. I mean, I think there's a subjective nature to this, right? Where I don't like, I'm trying to think, what is a food? Actually, I like most

foods. What's a food I don't like? Anise, is that how you pronounce it? Anise? How do you pronounce that? A-N-I-S-E, that spice. You know what? I don't, I'm not even. Anise, whatever it is. I don't like that spice. I just don't like it. It tastes bad to me. And I do like a lot of, it doesn't matter how many times I eat it. I just don't like it. Similarly, there are some workouts, some types of training that I just wouldn't like,. Similarly, there are some workouts, some types of training that I just wouldn't like, and that's okay. And the thing is to find, okay, what do you like? What do you actually, you're not going to look forward to every workout. Some days you're going to be low on motivation, low on energy, whatever, but more often than not, what do you

look forward to and get in the gym and then enjoy and leave the gym feeling good. Like those are the things that you want to go for. And same thing with diet, right? You want to be looking forward to the meals. You want to be eating foods you like, you want to feel satisfied and getting to that point is crucial, especially if we are looking at the bigger picture, right? Excellent. I totally agree. And really what this comes down to and what we're kind of talking about is eating and exercise consistency. I mean, how does that happen? What you're saying is doing things you actually enjoy is one huge hack, right? To ultimately achieving that sustainability and that consistency because that's the biggest challenge I've seen is really

exercise or eating consistency or just both. It's like the people who get the best results are the ones who do both, right? You've got the eating, you've got the exercise, they synergistically work together and it creates like a really powerful effect. But as you're saying, it's like if you look forward to it and you enjoy it, you find something that you enjoy, it has a huge impact on your ability to stay consistent and enjoy it and And ultimately what we all want, we want to maximize our vitality and live a long, full, healthy life. What type of workouts do you generally have your clients do? Let's take somebody who is again, stage one. So they're not in shape. Maybe they don't have 50 pounds to lose. Maybe they have 30, 20 to 30 pounds to lose.

They're not in shape. Where do you like to start with them on the exercise side of things? Right. So those guys, I think they're ready to get straight into strength circuits. I mean, that's kind of my bread and butter, so to speak. I really love it. And it's something I do religiously three times a week. And so I'll give them a program that's based on the strength circuits where it's again, 30 minutes, starts with a warmup, goes into circuits, typically five exercise done a few times, have a little bit of a finisher at the end to kind of lock in, get a little more conditioning. And then the end is like a cool down, some stretching. So literally in 30 minutes, it's timed. Like that's a huge deal, right? Like when something's timed, it's like the workout density,

where you can get a lot more done in a lot less time. And so that is kind of the structure. And in terms of the exercises that are chosen, they're typically dumbbell based just because I want to make it simple and easy for people to be able to do. And they're movement based, right? Because I'm not really trying to target muscle groups. Like I think form follows function, especially, I think it's just really a good framework to use. And so, you know, movement patterns, squatting, lunging, like doing different types of core work, helping people open up their body and ultimately just get stronger, more limber and in better shape. What are some of your favorite exercises to do yourself and to have your clients do for that? Because really what you're talking about is, I guess you could say functional fitness,

although that's kind of a loaded term because it can mean different things. You know what I mean? But these are functional movements in that like the squat is a functional movement. The lunge is a very functional movement because that's how your hips were designed to, you're loading them in a natural movement pattern, right? So it's, yes, that's good. No, absolutely. And so I think one way to think about exercise is like when most of us are growing up, we think about it like a coloring book. It's like, oh, or like a body's like a robot with like the machine with like parts stuck together, right? But to think more in terms of movement patterns over muscle groups and like just to give you one example of like an exercise I think is actually tremendous either as a warmup or part of your actual routine is crawling, literally crawling on the ground smoothly.

I know this is a thing too. I have never done it. I'm going to say, but I've seen people in the gym doing it. I came across, I forget who it is. Somebody whose work was recommended to me. I have it bookmarked. I just can't think of the name off the top of my head. Was it an original strength? Yes. Tim Anderson or no? That's right. Yeah. That was him. Yeah. Yeah. He's great. And I think like one thing that I've learned just

working with so many guys and doing functional movement screens on them and be okay, like, where are they off? What's going on? Like ultimately like a functional body is, I think like foundationally, it's like having that reflexive core, like a core that is reflexive in nature. It's not like, okay, I need to like, you know, do a crunch with 200 pounds. It's more of like, can it be reflexive? Like is my right hip and my left shoulder working together? Because it's like a cross pattern. What do you mean by reflexive core? Reflexive. I mean, it's, it's like a reflex driven. It's like, okay, I reach for this and the right muscles are firing in the right sequence, almost like an orchestra. It's like perfectly timed. And that's how I really think about human movement, right? Because that's really what this is about is how

do you move well for the long haul? Instead of just focusing on the aesthetic, it's like, oh, I want the six pack. I want like my shoulders look like this. Like we want to move well for a long time. So when you're 60, 70, you can bend down and pick up your grandkid and it's not gonna be right. You're not going to like rip your back out or something like, you know, and so I think moving well and creating that reflex driven type of core is incredibly valuable. Anyways, you know, crawling is, it's a really interesting exercise. And it's weird. It sounds like, okay, what the hell is this guy talking about? But even and so by the way, actually, I think crawling forward and backwards is actually really powerful. What specifically is what are the benefits of doing that?

Right, right. And again, there are a lot of different types of functional exercises. I think this one is particularly powerful that people just don't talk about or think about. What's so powerful about it is the way the body moves, it's really kind of rotational, right? So a lot of exercise that we do in a gym is like just in one place it's like frontal and plane we're just kind of it's like up or down or it's forward and backward and that's exactly up or down forward and backward whereas there's a whole rotational element it's really captured with even when you walk by the way you're actually rotating right you're rotating your shoulder forward you're rotating your hips it's actually rotational walking so you're walking forward

you're actually rotating in order to walk forward and so with actually that like crawling on the ground it helps develop your core and your so your right shoulder should be working with your left hip and it actually helps open up people's hips and become more flexible it helps activate the core and one big thing is as you know with deadlifting like when you activate the core, the hips just open up and you can get much more depth. And you're like, oh man, I thought my hamstrings were really tight. Well, actually it's like the whole complex is just jacked up. It's just one example of an exercise. And that's also what provides protection for your lower back, a core that's working properly. Right. There's intra-abdominal pressure, right? Is like kind of like, is a huge factor. And then

you've got the kind of forward flexion, you've got extension, you've got kind of lateral flexion with your core. But I think it's that reflex driven core is like, it's hugely valuable. And I think it's what helps people move really well and smoothly. Right. If like, I used to think about, you know, my ideal like body as like, Oh, it's just someone who looks like this fitness model. Right. It's like really, but now it's like, yeah, I want to look great, but I also want to move really well. And so like my whole perspective has changed. And I think, you know, thinking more in terms of like joint health in terms of, you know, reflex driven, that's why I kind of talk about, you know, this crawling thing. I was like, what does it mean? But like, if you crawl forward and

backward and like you do it slowly, you're going to be moving pretty well, right? Like you're going to be able to jump up and pick up something and not hurt your lower back. And so it's just, it's a representation of like a body that can move well. And as far as form goes on crawling, is there for people who are sold or like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to crawl forward and backward for, I mean, what are we talking about in terms of time?

And then is there a specific where you're like, yeah, just go search for this type of crawl, do this for a minute forward and about whatever, like for people who are like, I mean, what are we talking about in terms of time? And then is there a specific where you're like, yeah, just go search for this type of crawl, do this for a minute forward and about whatever, like for people who are like, I want to do it. I want to see the difference. And by the way, just to be clear, like crawling is not part of every workout I do. In fact, it's like not many, when I say not like the workouts I give to most guys, like it's not part of it because they're not going to do in their own gym, but it's something that is a part of some, right. It's something that I think guys should know. So in terms of like, okay, how to build this in, I think you just do it as part of a warm-up.

Just do it a few forward, a few backward, just to kind of get the blood flowing. I mean, if you look online, there are a million different ways to do crawling. I mean, there's leopard crawling, there's bear crawling, there's a million different ways to do it. But just in terms of how I do it, again, I personally have it as part of my kind of like warm-up routine.

It's something I literally like religiously do because I just go forward and backward. Typically. I mean, it depends if I actually go to the famed goals gym in Venice right now, I'll go like down this path, maybe 15 yards. I guess go forward and backward just to kind of get the blood flowing. If I'm actually gonna do it as a workout, I'll do it for like a few rounds of maybe, you know, almost probably like 20 yards forward and backwards. And I'll do that a few times few rounds of maybe, you know, almost probably like 20 yards forward and backwards. And I'll do that a few times kind of at the end of a training session.

That's something else I'll do like kind of as a finisher. Is there a specific type of crawl that? Again, I mean, there's so many different variations. I mean, or a style that someone who goes, I want to, I want to do exactly what Mark's doing. What do I do? That's so funny. Yeah.

I mean, I keep it pretty simple. It's not the bear crawl where you've got your like hips really high. I mean, I do it more of like kind of the Tim Anderson style from original strength where it's like, keep your hips kind of like flattish and then just move forward so that your hips don't spill from side to side. Like that's the thing you want your head, you want to keep your hips kind of flat. And then that is what helps kind of promote the flexibility and helps increase the reflexive nature of the core. And by the way, I mean, ultimately it's like crawling, like instead of like hiking or sorry, like climbing, right? You're climbing upwards. That's also like incredibly powerful and functional, right? Yes. It's similar, a similar type of

movement, but you're just moving laterally instead of horizontally, right? Right, exactly. So if somebody were to imagine they were kind of climbing up a wall, but on the ground, then that would be probably more or less the right type of movement. Right. That's kind of what it's like. That's actually what it's like. But again, I think that the big key is ideally keep your kind of hips flat and try to avoid them swelling from side to side, which is not easy. That's where the reflexive nature goes. And then I think there's a lot out there that you can check out, but ultimately just making it look smooth.

That's the hardest part. If you can make your crawling actually look smooth, you'll be at a different level. Seriously, like you'll be like just in terms of overall function and health. But I'm just giving you a random kind of exercise that I guess it's a little bit different than most people have heard. It's something that I think is useful. It's something I personally use in my warmups all the time. Yeah, great. No, it's a great tip. And it's one that I don't think has been shared ever on my podcast. It reminds me of, I did an interview with Dan John months ago where he shared a simple, yeah, he's a good dude. He shared a simple shoulder tip that I had never heard. And it was simply to hang for like 30 seconds. I think it was no more than a minute a day. That's all it takes to improve shoulder health. And it's something that he just has always done with his

athletes. And he's seen it. For example, he was saying that it's helped a lot of baseball pitchers who obviously they just wrecked their shoulder for a living. And he's also worked with a number of discus throwers and people who just are prone to have shoulder issues and just hanging, I think it was only 30 seconds, hanging 30 seconds, definitely no more than a minute a day was often enough to alleviate or even eliminate the problems they were having altogether. Right. So, I mean, hanging is huge. It comes out, you're gripping your core, right? So, the crawling thing is a kind of a core thing. I mean, grip is huge. And one other thing to mention, just like a simple exercise that also, since you brought up Dan John, is like a farmer's

carry. Yeah, yeah. He talked about that too, yeah. Very, very powerful exercise and something I, you know, as part of the programming that I do, So incredible. And it's not like you're not like curling anything, but it's just in terms of overall strength and longevity, like a farmer's car is really powerful because like when you get your grip strong and your core strong, the game changes, right? You're going to be a strong person. That's just how I see it. As you know, there's research that even correlates grip strength to overall mortality, right? Absolutely. And there's more going on there. I mean, I don't think you can't quote unquote hack that by like using a grip ball all day and just sitting on your ass eating Cheetos

and being like, Oh, I'm going to make it. Yeah, exactly. I think it more speaks to that. If you're going about it in a correct, sensible way, if you have a strong grip, you got there by doing things that are promoting, like you're talking about, are promoting a strong, functional body that is not going to fall down and break. I think you said it perfectly. All right, man. Well, this was a great discussion. As expected, I really appreciate you taking the time. And let's wrap up with where people can find you and your work. If they would like to work with you directly, do you have availability? How does that work? Do you have anything new and exciting you want to tell people about? Sure. So I've been running builtlean.com thankfully for the last 10 years and you can find me there,

go to builtlean.com. We have a, you know, like essentially like a get lean guide. You can see like a free get lean guide. And then at the end, you can set up a conversation with someone with myself or someone on my team. If you are interested in getting started with our program and system, you know, to help you get a lean body, right. To go from where you are to where you want to be to bridge that gap, but go to builtland.com. You can check out like a free video and then you can book a call with myself or someone on my team. And, you know, we can kind of discuss where you are and where you want to go and go from there. Awesome, Mark. Well, thanks again for taking the time. I really appreciate it. I look forward to the next discussion. Awesome. All right. Thanks, Mike. And enjoy the rest of the day.

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