Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Michael Chernow on Becoming a “Kreature” of Habit

Episode Date: October 27, 2021

In this podcast, I chat with my friend, Michael Chernow, about his new oatmeal and apparel business called Kreatures of Habit. In case you’re not familiar with Michael, he’s a trained chef and “serial entrepreneur” with repeat success in the restaurant industry, including The Meatball Shop (with 8 locations) and Seamore’s (a sustainable seafood restaurant). It’s clear Michael hasn’t just “gotten lucky,” but knows how to build effective brands and businesses, and I’ve had him on the podcast before to talk about entrepreneurship. And that’s why I wanted to get him back on the show to talk about this new endeavor. A direct-to-consumer oatmeal business is a horse of a different color from a restaurant, so I wanted to ask Michael how things are going and what inspired him to delve outside of his usual realm of restaurant entrepreneurship. In our discussion, we discuss the backstory of Kreatures of Habit, the importance and life-changing benefits of habits in general, money and financial freedom, the challenges he’s been facing with the new business, and a lot more. So if you want to learn all about the entrepreneurship process and what it’s like to start a new business that makes delicious oatmeal, listen to this interview! Timestamps: 7:13 - Why did you delve outside the realm of restaurants and your past success? 34:30 - How has the business been going? What challenges are you facing? 38:41 - What role does the apparel play? 47:03 - What’s the big vision? Where is this business in 10 years? 50:01 - Why you shouldn't chase money. 1:13:10 - Where can people find Kreatures of Habit? Mentioned on the Show: https://kreaturesofhabit.com/ Michael Chernow’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michaelchernow/ Legion VIP One-on-One Coaching: https://buylegion.com/vip

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Muscle for Life. I'm Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today. And if you haven't already, please do subscribe to the show in whatever app you are listening to me in, because one, it'll make sure that you don't miss any new episodes, and two, it Michael Chernow, who has been on the show before and who has returned to talk entrepreneurship, which is a fun topic, something that I am very interested in, in addition to all of my health and fitness things. habit. And so we use that as the context for today's discussion and talk about the struggles of starting a new business, especially when you have succeeded previously in business. Michael has done well, particularly in the restaurant space. That's where he has made his name. And now though, Michael is getting into D2C with a food and apparel brand. And that is a horse of a very different color. Those are very different types of businesses. And so I wanted to talk to Michael about why he chose that as opposed to doing another restaurant, for example, where he has had multiple successes. Why not just stick to what you're good at? Why not just stay in your lane? As the ditto heads like to tell me, whenever I say something politically or culturally, they don't agree with. And I also wanted to hear from Michael how it's going, how he is navigating that

crucial beginning stage of business, because I get quite a few people reaching out to me asking for business advice. And those people are also in that embryonic stage. Let's say $0 to maybe your first million dollars in revenue. And what it takes to go from zero to 1 million is different than what it takes to go from one to five. And that's different than what it takes to go from 5 to 10 and 10 to 20 and 20 to 50 and beyond. And if you want to read a good book on that in particular, read Ready, Fire, Aim by Michael Masterson. Very practical book from somebody who has built multiple eight and nine figure businesses. So anyway, that is the theme of today's discussion. But of course, we touch on other related things as well, like money and financial freedom and how those things relate to happiness, the importance of building the right habits and more. Also, if you like what I'm doing

here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my VIP one-on-one coaching service because my team and I have helped people of all ages and all circumstances lose fat, build muscle, and get into the best shape of their life faster than they ever thought possible. And we can do the same for you. We make getting fitter, leaner, and stronger paint by numbers simple by carefully managing every aspect of your training and your diet for you. Basically, we take out all of the guesswork. So all you have to do is follow the plan and watch your body change day after day, week after week, and month after month. What's more, we've found that people are often missing just one or two crucial pieces of the puzzle.

And I'd bet a shiny shekel it's the same with you. You're probably doing a lot of things right, but dollars to donuts, there's something you're not doing correctly, or at all, that's giving you the most grief. Maybe it's your calories or your macros. Maybe it's your exercise selection. Maybe it's your food choices. Maybe you're not progressively overloading your

muscles, or maybe it's something else. And whatever it is, here's what's important. Once you identify those one or two things you're missing, once you figure it out, that's when everything finally clicks. That's when you start making serious progress. And that's exactly what we do for our clients. To learn more, head over to www.buylegion.com that's B-U-Y-L-E-G-I-O-N.com slash VIP and schedule your free consultation call, which by the way, is not a high pressure sales call. It's really just a discovery call where we get to know you better and see if you're a good fit for the service. And if you're not, for any reason, we will be able to share resources that'll point you in the right direction. So again,

if you appreciate my work and if you want to see more of it, and if you also want to finally stop spinning your wheels and make more progress in the next few months than you did in the last few years, check out my VIP coaching service at www.buylegion.com slash VIP. Michael, I was, uh, I've been looking forward to, to this interview for a couple of reasons. One, it's fun for me for a little bit of a change of a pace of, uh, you know, I'm always talking about health and fitness stuff, but I also like business. I like marketing. I like particularly the creative parts of building a business. And of course, the core of good marketing is creativity. And I know you're the same way. And I like talking

with you. So this is just a good excuse to scratch a couple of itches and call it work. Yeah, man. I mean, well, I guess well, I guess, I guess we could, we could cover a few things here, right? We'll definitely talk about entrepreneurship and marketing and all those things. But I think similar to the last time I was on your podcast, um, I was deep in the, in a contest prep for a bodybuilding show. And actually I'm four, four and a half weeks out from my pro bodybuilding debut on November 13th. So we could talk a little bit about- I was going to say you're looking lean. I can see in your face. Yeah, man. I'm, I am, I am at, I'm like sharp as a tack, hungry as hell

and deep and deep in the prep, man. It's about to get ugly but um yeah i you know what's life without insanely hard challenges right yeah it uh it would be not as uh not as exciting at least there's that right that's the truth uh so you you just started this new company creatures of habit, and I have a few questions that I wanted to ask you that, uh, I think will be interesting to, to people listening who want to learn about entrepreneurship and, um, the process of, of building a business. And so here's the first question. Here's the first consideration that I would have shared or the first question I would have asked you early on is, so you've done very well in the restaurant space, right? And that's where you've had most of your success or all of your

success so far. Is that correct? Yep. 100%. Okay, cool. And why not just do another restaurant? Why not stick to your knitting, so to speak? Why did you feel compelled to do something to do something that is not the, maybe you could call it the safe play, which is just doing what you have done successfully before. And of course, I'm not, I don't mean that there's, that's not a back handed question. Like that's a genuine question because it's even something that I've thought about because I have other interests. I have. There are other businesses and other things I would like to do. And I'm very focused on what I'm doing right now for strategic reasons. But in the next couple of years, I'll probably want to pursue some of those things. And I'm curious even for myself how it's going to go because I'm kind of rambling, but I'll say one more point and then I want to listen to you talk.

But I don't know if you've experienced this, but I have, and I've tried to remain cognizant of it. It's easy to believe because you've done well in one thing or in one area that you can do well in anything. And, uh, so, so that's something again that I've, I've just thought about that. Well, I think maybe I could do this over here, but I don't know. You know what I mean? I know I can do what I can do, but I haven't done that yet. Well, I think it's a great question and I have a number of different avenues of answering it. So I'm going to give you all of them. First and foremost, fitness, wellness, and well, I guess wellness sort of covers nutrition, but fitness and wellness have been the cornerstones to my happiness in life.

And I correlate happiness to the overarching sort of like the parent company of success, right? Like the parent company of my success in life is ultimately how I feel and whether or not I feel happy or living in fear, right? That's like, I feel like you're either happy or you're scared. Those are like the two ways people live. And obviously when you're living a life of happiness, you definitely stumble down into the valley of fear many times. But generally, because of the lifestyle that I've chosen to live through discipline, action, commitment, dedication, I'm able to battle those fearful moments with a much more positive outlook. And so, you know, the world of treating my body well through fitness and the things that I put into my body have really given me this armor to handle everything and anything else on the outside. And I wanted to get closer

to that in my livelihood. I wanted to develop a business that I would be able to share some of those tools, some of those habits that I've created to give me the best shot of living the best life possible every day with the masses. I really wanted to be me the best shot of living the best life possible every day with the masses. I really wanted to be able to touch more people. And so creating a business in the world of direct-to-consumer products is going to give me a much better chance of touching more people with my mission and my product than having a restaurant. Because a restaurant, though I love the restaurant business, and like you said, and is accurate,

I spent my whole life in the restaurant business up until very recently. I love making memories for people through a restaurant experience and really fixing people's problem. Cause people, whenever, whenever somebody typically any business, you know, any business we're solving someone's problem or a lot, a lot of people's problem, right? Like everybody that walks into a restaurant has a problem. That problem could be as small as they're hungry and they want food. They're thirsty and they want something to drink. They've had a rough day and they want to just kick and relax and get taken care of. There's always a problem that we're here to solve. And similarly

with the business that I just launched, Creatures of Habit, I think a lot of people struggle with choosing what to eat, specifically in a high-stress time of the day, which is in the morning. People tend to eat crap in the morning because they're in a rush. They don't have time, and so they which is going to give you like, you know, a nice 2500 calorie kick in the ass of garbage in the beginning of the day. And there's a nice bout of diabetes. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I'm unconscious and then it's lunchtime. Yeah. Like, you know, spike your insulin levels to the point of, you know, to the, to the top and

then drop them like it's hot, you know, so you're just passed out for the rest of the day. So, you know, for me with creating creatures of habit and, and really just sort of stepping into the world of direct to consumer business, I wanted to be able to have a direct relationship and communication with the customers that take interest to the product that I'm launching and really be able to say, hey, this is something that you can introduce to your life that could potentially change it and hopefully change it because that is the story for me. Right. Like, and so I really stepped into that because I wanted to be able to touch more people. I didn't want to, I didn't want people, I didn't want to have a regional business. I wanted to have a global business. And it's really

possible to do that today through the internet, right? Like that's, that's, that's, it makes it possible. And you know, better than me, you've been in this business direct to consumer for a long time and you kill it. And you're, you help thousands and thousands of people every single day with your, with, with Legion and the products that you put out there. So, you know, you've been a huge inspiration for me to, to want to step out and try this. Another thing is, you know, I was actually going to launch Creatures of Habit initially as a restaurant. And it was going to, you know, I learned through my career that I love the restaurant world. I don't, however, love scaling restaurants. I don't love scaling

restaurant companies because my job as a creative entrepreneur goes from creating an awesome brand and building a great team and developing this awesome culture and making all these amazing memories for people who join us, our guests that come into the restaurant. It goes from that to doing deals with landlords, managing construction crews, buying restaurant equipment, putting out fires constantly. That is ultimately what scaling a restaurant concept consists of. It's far less about the people and far more about the logistics and the operations, which is quite frankly, not where I am best suited. I am best suited in communicating and engaging with human beings and trying to give people

an amazing experience. And so that I, when I, when I initially created Creatures of Habit, it was going to launch as a restaurant, one amazing restaurant that was going to be my headquarters for this new business. And I was going to use the restaurant as an incubator to create products to then sell direct to consumer and in retail. And the restaurant was going to be like a big lab for this awesome new consumer packaged goods company that I was going to, that was going to be the trajectory of scale for the business. I found an amazing- Which is a formula that I've seen done successfully. I'm sure you could tell me more examples than I even know of where it started

with a restaurant and then they became known for a certain type of product that they spun into a CPG and then it went from there? A hundred percent. I was deeply influenced by a company called Hugh Kitchen. Hugh Kitchen started as a small little restaurant on 14th Street and they created some products. And one of those products happened to be a bar, a chocolate bar, a vegan or paleo chocolate bar. And now they have a number of different SKUs of that chocolate bar and a few other SKUs that they do. But that took off like wildfire. And, you know, they ultimately sold that business to a bigger company for an enormous multiple, an enormous multiple. And so when you're, but the beauty of it is, is that they started in this little place and they touched

millions of people because of their retail scalability and their direct-to-consumer scalability. So that was really inspiring for me. And that was sort of the model that I wanted to create with Creatures. I found an amazing space, my dream restaurant space. And I was sitting at the table with the landlords in February of 2020. And, you know, March was rolling up and I was about ready to sign. And then all of a sudden, you start hearing these grumblings about this virus that is, you know, going to change the world. And I was like, why is this even real? Like, is this actually happening? You know, I had all my investors lined up and we were going to go to town. And, you know, when that happened, I waited about a week and it got worse. And I called my investors and I said, guys, this is obviously not an ideal situation for anything or anyone. But I'm certainly not going to invest quarter million of my money into this brick and mortar business right now. And I certainly would not feel comfortable taking yours. So we're going to have to push pause. And that's exactly what I did. And we pushed pause or I pushed pause on

the business. And I moved myself and my family to our house about two hours out of New York City. And I took some time to think about what I was going to do next because I, you know, a like people were getting really sick and the world was in a terrible, terrible place. And I, I looked at this as, as a time to really reflect and say, okay, well, what, what am I going to do here? And I actually hired an executive coach to work with me, um, to help me sort of sit through some of the through some of the stuff that I was trying to understand. And I came to the conclusion that I love creating brands that resonate with people at scale. I love and think I have a superpower to understand what people want and how to deliver it to them,

sometimes even if they didn't know that they wanted it, like that is where I think I shine as a business person. I really, really, really connect with humans and I love making people happy and I love helping people more than probably any of that. So I said, you know what, I'm going to draw a line through the restaurant and I'm going to create a business that is straight direct to consumer with a scale, with a trajectory of going into retail and wholesale, but really focus on, on the direct to consumer piece of the company to launch. And I thought about what I was going to launch with. And a little story about me, from 13 to 23, I was a drug addict, full-blown alcoholic and drug addict. And I spent my life really struggling to try to pull myself out of there at that time. I, I, I, you know, I did not have a great, you know, I didn't have great role models. And so I had to really sort of find people to help me change my life.

And I got very lucky in August of 2000, August in 2004, two guys that I was introduced to saw that I had a lot of potential and saw that I was a good guy, that I was just really sick with this disease of alcoholism. And they said, we want to help. And I looked up to these guys. They were cool dudes. They were Muay Thai kickboxing fighters. And I said, okay, these are the kinds of guys that I can latch onto. And so they said, look, kid, this is what we're going to do. We're going to take you to this gym and we're going to teach you about fitness.

And you're going to come here every day and you're going to get into the ring and you're going to learn how to commit to something. And you're going to learn how to get your ass kicked and get back up. And you're going to learn what dedication means. And you're going to learn about integrity and humility and all the things that I have today because of these two guys. They also said, we're going to teach you how to treat your body well. And that's going to require you committing to a nutritional plan that will help change you from the inside out. This is going to help you change from the outside in. And the nutrition is going to help you you from the inside out. This is going to help you change from the outside in, and the nutrition is going to help you change from the inside out. And I said,

I'll do anything you tell me to do. And so the first thing they told me to do every single morning was wake up and ask the universe for help. So I'll wake up and pray. And that's what I did. And then they said, right after you do that, you're going to go make a bowl of oatmeal. And, and that's going to be the first thing you put into your body every single day. And you can add nuts to it, you can add, you know, berries to it, cinnamon to it. But you know, this is the first thing that you're going to eat, because you probably haven't eaten anything nutritious in years. And I was like, you're right. And so that was the first nutritional habit I stuck to. And God is my witness. I've been eating oatmeal every single day as my first meal for 17 years

because those guys gave me a plan. And those guys gave me a couple of habits to stack in the beginning of my day, the wins to stack in the beginning of my day to give me the best shot of success. Because I also learned from those guys that you cannot live yesterday. Yesterday is long gone. And you certainly can't live tomorrow because it doesn't exist anymore. tomorrow because it doesn't exist anymore. And so you might as well take ownership of the things that you can control on a daily basis, specifically in the morning so that you have a good chance of success throughout the day. And so I learned that through nutrition and fitness. And so when I was thinking about creatures of habit, because I'm a massive creature of habit, obviously I've been eating oatmeal every day for 17 years. I said, what am I going to launch? And I, and I immediately said, I've got to make the best damn oatmeal on the planet because

oatmeal helped change my life, you know, and it's funny to say that, but the story is totally authentic and true. These guys told me that this is what I should eat in the morning. And my life began to change. And it was because I was able to put a habit. I didn't have to think about what I was going to eat. I didn't have to stress out. I didn't skip it. They just said, this is what you're going to eat. And it's going to give you the fuel that you need to succeed physically and mentally. And that's where we'll start. And then for lunch, you're going to have chicken and broccoli. And then for dinner, you're going to have some sort of protein and veg. And we're just going to keep it real simple, just like that. You're going to go to

the gym about an hour after you eat, and you're going to train really hard. And then you're going to go home and have some lunch, take a nap, and then get up and go to work. And at nine o'clock at night, you'll have your last meal of the day. And that's the story of my journey to success in wellness. And so I wanted to be able to share that story through a business because I know you hear a lot and people also don't believe that change is possible. I'm here to tell you that change is possible. Change is 1000% possible. And it doesn't matter how old you are, how far down the path you've gone in the wrong direction. I know that if you implement little wins in the beginning of your day, you can change and you can change

relatively quickly. You can become a creature of habit. You can become a creature of habit. And so that's what I did, man. And many, many successful people, at least that I've known over the years, are all creatures of habit in their own way. And I mean, I certainly am. I would say I've achieved a certain level of success. I know people have done much better than I have in every area of life, but I'm a big person. I'm big on routine as well.

And I'm big on, it sounds like that there's a little bit of a, maybe a theme or kind of an undercurrent to some of this of being able to be happy with maybe not less because that sounds negative, but happy with simplicity. And that's something that I also strive toward. I don't want to think about what clothes I'm going to wear. I don't want to think about what food I'm going to eat. I'd rather put that energy into more productive and more interesting things. And so by having very simple routines that I know I'm going to do much like you, I eat my oatmeal at night, not in the morning, but I eat it every single day. I put nuts in it. I put berries in it. I mix some protein powder in

it. And, um, I I've also tried your product and really like it. I just have, I've made my own version of that for, for a long time now. Right. And, um, anyway, so, so what you're saying resonates a lot with me. And I think there's, it's one of those things that it's, it can sound almost overly simple, schematic kind of reductionistic, but it is just one of those fundamental things that I think works for everybody in the same way, if they're willing to just go through the process. You know, one other thing that I just wanted to say in answer to your question is, you know, when you say, you'd said, if you're really good at one thing,

why would you jump ship and try something else? Is it because you think maybe because you're really good at one thing, why would you jump ship and try something else? Is it because you think maybe because you're really good at that, you'd be really good at this? And what I think I'm really good at, and it just so happened to have been restaurants at the time, I think I'm really good at telling a story. And the business is storytelling, right? People for millennia, since the beginning of time, have been storytellers and really, really engaged in more so listening to other people tell stories. We love being told a good story. A good story is what provokes laughter, fun. People want to follow someone else's story, right? Like, you know, every single, you know, high performing athlete, business person, whatever, it's a story. It's a

story of success. It's a story of happiness. And that's what inspires people. And so if you're a great storyteller, and I'd like to think of myself as a great storyteller, that's really what I consider myself as an entrepreneur who's a great storyteller. I want to be able to tell my story in a few different ways. And so at first it was restaurants and, you know, I've got a great story behind how that happened. And now it's in, it's in nutritional products that, that provide me with ultimate happiness. You know, like there's a guy, Jocko Willink, who I'm sure you know of and I'm sure a lot of people that listen to your podcast know of. He's an ex-Navy SEAL or he is a Navy SEAL, but he's created a really cool business and he's a bit of a wild man.

But he said something that resonated so, so intensely with me when I read his books. And he says, discipline equals freedom. intensely with me when I read his books. And he says, discipline equals freedom. It resonated so much with me that I got it tattooed on my hand so I can see it all the time. It's right here. And, you know, people think of discipline as a derogatory negative thing. The truth is, is discipline is the key to happiness. You know, it's like when you think about, you know, for layman's terms, right? A bank account, you've got a bank account. If you keep putting money into the bank account, it just continues to go into the black, right? You're in the black. You just keep putting money into it. You keep putting money into it. You're

into the black. When you want to go buy something really nice and you're way up in the black, you just keep putting money into it, you keep putting money into it, you're into the black. When you want to go buy something really nice and you're way up in the black, you could take that money out and go buy something nice and you're not dipping into the red. You're still in the black, man. You've got a lot of room to wiggle. I think about it the same way with my health and wellness. If I keep on investing into my health and wellness on a regular basis, I'm investing in it. I'm training hard. I'm eating right. I'm, you know, I'm on the beam. I live by the 80, 20% rule where 80% of the time, I'm just investing in my health and wellness. And 20% of the time I'm taking, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm taking out a, a, a withdrawal and I'm going to have burgers and fries. And guess what? That burger and fries and pizza and pint of ice cream isn't going to put a dent, a dent

in my system. It doesn't even register. It doesn't even register. It just, I could do it and smile and enjoy it and not wake up guilty or at all. Like totally love every moment of it from the beginning to the end. Why? Because I've invested in my wellness and I can do that. I could do that whenever I want, anytime I want, I can do it, you know, and that's the beauty of it. That's the freedom of it. When you're doing it all the time, you're going to get sick. That's the truth, right? You're not going to live

this awesome, happy, wonderful life because by the time you're 60 years old and you've eaten like garbage for that whole time, you are going to have diabetes. You are going to have heart problems. You are going to potentially develop, you know, viruses and diseases that are terrible, that are fatal. Right. Like it's not worth it. So invest in your wellness, invest in your health, eat right, train hard, do those things so that you can live till you're 95 years old and still swim laps, you know, like that's, that's the dream. And, um, when we're not well inside, when we're not well physically, uh, it totally affects our mental wellness as well. Right. And so there's this one, one bad night of sleep at this point, now that I've gotten older messes me up, I notice it. And, and so, you know, I could only imagine what it would feel like to drop all of the habits that I've built up that allow me to perform at least generally at the level that I would like to be able to perform at. That's the one thing that does register, at least for me, as I've gotten older. It didn't when I was younger. I could sleep six and a half hours, be totally fine, notice nothing.

Unfortunately, not the case anymore. I agree, man. You know, I just, I think that there is a solution to a lot of the problems that we're experiencing today. And the hardest part is, I said earlier, change is absolutely 1 billion percent possible. Without a doubt. And I said, it doesn't matter how far down the road you've gone in the wrong direction or how old you are, you can change.

The only issue is you cannot change another person, right? You cannot change anyone. Change only happens from the inside. It's an inside job. And so the reason why I think it's so hard to promote proper nutrition and health and wellness is that you can lead a horse to water by, you know, taking the rope and walking it over there, but you can't open its mouth and have it ingest that water. You know, you can't, you can't handhold people all day long and tell them, no, don't eat that. No, don't, you know, don't sit, sit, sit on your ass for 14 hours a day in front of the TV.

Like you can't do that. And so they have to want to do it. And so I've created this product that is like insanely delicious. It's got unbelievable properties to it in terms of the macros and the D3 and the omega-3 and the probiotic and the digestive enzymes. I'm trying to get the horse to the water. That's the mission for me and Creatures of Habit is I'm really, really trying to get the horse to the water. That's the mission for me in Creatures of Habit is I'm really, really trying to get the horse to the water and hope that they drink it, you know, because I know that I came, I was on the knocking on death's door. I was, man, I almost died. You know, I overdosed on drugs. I

mean, I was knocking on death's door. And if you took a snapshot of me, you know, July, 2004, and then took a snapshot of me today, the, the literally the, the, the highest roller in any casino across the globe, you said, this kid is going to be that guy in 17 years. The highest roller would have said no chance in hell. I'm not putting a dollar on it, not even a penny. There's no way. And so I'm here to say that change is possible and it all starts with your decisions aka habits on a daily basis and how has the business how has it been going what are some of the challenges that you're facing that all businesses face in the beginning and no matter, no matter how well a business does, there are always challenges. Like, I mean, Legion had a good year one, but, uh,

we ran out of stock of everything because I had no systems in place for inventory management, for example. So that was like, I realized it when there was a point where, uh, we probably, we had a few weeks of inventory left and I was like, probably should have reordered. Isn't the lead time on this stuff like eight to 10 weeks? And so, you know, stupid mistakes. So there are, there are those kinds of problems. And then we've had problems where of course, in the other end of the spectrum where you remember our plant protein, a lot of hype around it. A lot of our customers saying they really wanted it so excited, release it, meh, which was kind of interesting. And so how has it been going with Creatures of Habit? Are there any lessons that

you've learned or anything that, any challenges you're currently working through? Yeah, a lot. Um, well we're six weeks into, uh, tomorrow will be six weeks that we've launched the product. We had an awesome kickoff, um, you know, but I'm selling direct to direct to consumer, right? So it's not like I can have people like come and taste the product or see the product. It's like, I'm learning as I'm learning on the fly. And I've got a great team of people, but we're learning how to market this product online, which is a really tough thing to do, right? It's real. There's a lot of tech involved and you've got to spend a lot of money to make money. And so we're learning all about how to market this product and where to find our demographic and

where they are. We're definitely getting some great data, but that is definitely the challenge. It's really getting people to see what we're doing. The other component here is that oatmeal is like people have been eating Quaker Oats. It's a three and a half billion dollar market, right? It's a huge market, the oatmeal market. People eat oatmeal. And I've taken a traditional oatmeal pouch, right? Like this is the creature's pouch. So I've taken this oatmeal pouch that is not just oatmeal. I've added 30 grams of plant-based protein to it. I've added 7,000 IUs of vitamin D3 to it, 300 milligrams of omega-3 fatty acids, pink Himalayan salt, digestive enzymes. acids, pink Himalayan salt, digestive enzymes, you know, like I've added a lot of incredible ingredients to it to make it the best possible oatmeal you can eat. And it costs more money

than a pouch of Quaker oats. So, you know, understanding how to, how to convey the value, because if you're supplementing with all that stuff, you're spending more money than you would if you were just to buy the oatmeal, right? So trying to convey the value is, is not an easy thing either, right? Because it's not, it's not very expensive, but it's certainly more expensive than a pouch of Quaker oats, instant oatmeal. Um, so that's another component that we're just learning how to tackle. And we're definitely gaining traction and sales are growing every single day. But really, the biggest hurdle for me right now is getting the word out there in the most meaningful way.

And I think doing things like this, like getting on an awesome podcast that gets a lot of listeners to talk about the product and to talk about business and talk about life is really the best way to do it. So I think that is some of the biggest challenges. And so what about the apparel? So that's another part of this. Do you, do you see that as a core part of the business and the brand, or is it something that you are just doing for fun? You had mentioned before we started recording that the apparel is in the hat in particular, you mentioned is selling particularly well, and it surprised you a little bit like, wait a minute, I'm seeing this hat all over social media that that that's cool but um it sounds like again really the core of the whole

story is the food product why the apparel well i believe that wellness is a lifestyle and i love lifestyle i grew up in new york. Fashion and style have been a big part of my influence and what drives me to want to create brands. I love creating things that people like to see. I said I didn't want to just be another CPG company. I really wanted to have another component to the business that would give people a little bit more of an opportunity to be part of the team, to be part of the brand. And so, you know, a lot, you know, I, I didn't want to also just like take a t-shirt and slap our logo on it. I'm a bit of a, I'm an artist, man, you know, and I wanted to just like I built the formula for the protagonist. So the oatmeal pouch is called the protagonist. I really wanted to do

the same thing for the apparel. So I designed a capsule collection, which is just essentially a small, a small cluster of apparel pieces from scratch. So like this hat, for instance, I took like seven different hats that I love. And I said, I want this from this hat, this from that hat, this from this hat, this from this hat, put it all together and make the hat that I, my dream hat. And that's what we did. And with this hoodie that hasn't launched yet, I, you know, I took a bunch of my favorite hoodies and I put them, I put them together and I said, I want this, this, this, this, and this. And we created this custom piece that fits incredibly well. And the idea is this isn't just another CPG company. This is a brand that you can rely on for habits that will make you feel and look better. Um, and so,

you know, wear the Jersey, wear the uniform, be part of this thing, have a tangible component of it so that you can walk around and feel like you're a part of this community that are, um, really looking to be better on a daily basis. It's about the daily basis thing. You know, like your supplements are, I take your supplements. I, you know, when I, I mean, I don't even remember how we, maybe I think I DM'd you. I don't even know how we first hooked up, but I read your book years ago and it just, it, it, it, it, it, it made it all clear for me. It like literally just sort of like it answered all the questions that I had, um, about strength training because I spent years as a Muay Thai kickboxer, you know, as I said earlier, like

I've, I dove into Muay Thai kickboxing and I trained Muay Thai and competed in Muay Thai for 12 years. kickboxing. And I trained Muay Thai and competed in Muay Thai for 12 years. And, um, and I, and, and when you're, you know, training for a fight sport, um, specifically like a striking spite fight sport, it's about conditioning and it's about endurance and it's not about muscle necessarily. Right. And so I really wasn't my, my training outside of the ring was lots and lots of calisthenics running, um, you know, and long distance running. So my conditioning was like, I could stand in the ring for, you know, three to five rounds without, without gassing out, um, and being light and fast. Like that was what it was. And when I decided after my second reconstructive nose surgery, that I wasn't going to be a professional fighter. And I wanted to do something that had a little bit more sustainability throughout the rest of my life. It was going to be the nose surgeries or the concussions, one of whichever one. I basically, I said, you know, I'm going to get into strength training and I really want to

harness this. I really want to do something that I can challenge myself with every single day. And I didn't have to rely. I didn't have to, you know, like the cool thing about Muay Thai and a sport like that is you rely on yourself to succeed, right? Like it's a solo sport. And I'm not saying that I don't like team sports. I do like team sports, but something that I'm trying to, to win at, like really win. Um, I want to make sure that I'm, I'm, I'm held accountable for it every, every minute of it. And with strength training, you are the person that has to hold the weight literally. And so And so I said, this is somebody can't strap their limbs to yours and lift the weight for you. You're going to have to do it. You got every time, every rep.

Right. And no one's going to like protect your face from a, from a, you know, a roundhouse kick coming, you know, very fast. So I, I, I came from that place and I said, I want to be able to do something different, but in a similar philosophy, I really want to be able to challenge myself. And I think even more so than Muay Thai, you know, the cool thing about the challenge of strength training and resistance training is, is that every single day you walk into the gym to lift, you can add weight or add a rep every single time, you know, and depending on what kind of phase you're in, um, you know, I, I I'm adding something every single day. And if that means that I have to drop the weight and give myself a, you know, a 60 second rest to put that one more rep in. I do. But I love that challenge. And so, you know, I got into, I got into the strength training and so, so, you know, ultimately I, I just think that like I created, I created a line of apparel that people can wear around the house that they can wear outside. That's comfortable and casual. And then they can also train it.

You know, it's like loose fitting stuff that fits really well. Everything was thought out. And I just, I love being able to have a brand that covers a few bases. The other piece of it is like with a regular CPG company specifically, look, oatmeal is not like the sexiest thing, right? Like it's not really, let's be real here. It's not sexy at all. And so I wanted to be able to create a component of the business that would allow us to show up in different places outside of just an oatmeal business. So I'm trying to make oatmeal cool.

You know, I'm trying to make oatmeal cool because it really has changed and saved my life in many different ways. And it's a symbol of success for me. It's a symbol of commitment and habit. I know that we are our habits. And I also know that habits will make you or break you. And I also know that my habits have both made me over the last 17 years, but almost broke me. And so if I can give people a habit, one habit that can help shift their perspective. I knew I had to make it taste very good because

if I'm going to ask somebody to do something every single day, it's got to taste good. Um, but it's a symbol of success for me. It's just, it's a symbol of a, of a, of a springboard to a world that, you know, uh, only, only the, the, the healthy and the happy live. I love it. If you like what I'm doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my VIP one-on-one coaching service because my team and I have helped people of all ages and circumstances lose fat, build muscle, and get into the best shape of their life faster than they ever thought

possible. And we can do the same for you. What's the big vision? What's the, like, I don't know how far out you've thought about it, but I just knowing you, I know that you have probably at least, okay, this is in a year, three years, five, maybe even 10 years. What's the, what's the big picture for where you would love to be able to take the business? I'm assuming it goes further than this first offering. Where does it go? Yeah. So, you know, I've got like a pretty serious five-year plan. And I want to be a brand that is with you from wake up to wind down. That's sort of how I've thought about it, right? Like I'm not going to do like ready, you know, like fresh delivery meals,

but I want to create products that are convenient, that are mobile, that you can travel around with, that are with you from the morning throughout your day and before you go to bed. And so I've got a pipeline of SKUs that I'm going to introduce over the next, you know, 18 to 24 months that are going to help us achieve that goal of wake up to wind down. And then in, you know, 18 to 24 months that are going to help us achieve that goal of wake up to wind down. And then in, you know, four or five years, my plan is to have a full SKU set that really are built for subscription so that people can just rely on features of habit as their sort of lean on for not necessarily supplements, because I don't see us doing real supplements, but consumables that will keep people on the beam. And then in five years' time, I have a big goal,

revenue sales-wise for the company. And then I think at that point, I'd probably take on a big partner to help strategically scale the company. And then I'll do what I've done with the rest of my companies where I mitigate some risk for myself and I take some cash out, take some money off the table. And that's how I see this whole thing working out. You know, it's like, it's a really strong five-year plan. And my goal is to help as many people as possible be happy. And I know that the key to being happy and you know, that the key to being happy is, um, is, is, is, is self-care. It's just, it's self-care, man. It's not how much money you have. There's, there's millions of millionaires

that hate themselves. And that, that, that feel that are just miserable most of the time. And I mean, I, uh, I, I know at least a few myself and in, in several cases, it starts with exactly what you're saying. They just, they don't make, they don't make the time to just take care of themselves. They don't make the time. They look at exercising regularly as a luxury. They look at putting some thought and some effort into eating better as a luxury. And they're very good at working and they're very good at making money, but they're not very good at living well, in my opinion. What I think is so interesting, like you say, like they're very good at making money and you know, there's no doubt. I'm not going to be one of these guys that says, Oh, money, you know, it's not about the money. Money is awesome. Money is awesome.

It's awesome to have money. But if you spend your life chasing money, meaning you have it, you have money and it's great to have all this money and you probably have a nice house and some nice toys in the garage. And, you know, you go on a nice vacation with your family every once in a while, but if you spend your life, your whole life, nine, you know, 80% of your waking hours chasing it, what's the point? Like what, what, what is the purpose of like sacrificing all else life has to offer? You know, like the by-product of, of, of being healthy, um, and, and, and eating right and training hard is not only the mental fortitude that it offers and the confidence that it builds. But yo, man, at the end of the day, like, let's be real here.

I don't even know. I'm sure you know a statistic of how many people that work out do it for aesthetics only, right? Like I would say a large percentage of people that work out are not doing it because they're like, oh, I want to live to a hundred. You know what I'm saying? They're doing it because they're like, I want a six pack and I want to take my shirt off at the, at the beach and draw attention. You know, I want to feel good about how I look. So the truth is. That's a big part of why I keep doing it. It's not. Yeah, me too. There's nothing wrong with that. And, and, and, you know, I even encourage that as a motivator, especially when people are new to it. And, you know, cause I I've, I've spoken with, and I've worked with so many of these people over the years. And I understand when they tell me, you know what? I've never liked how my body looks. I've never

liked it. I've never looked in the mirror and thought, Hey, I look really good. And I want to experience that. So that's the biggest motivator for me. That's why I started reading your book. That's why I'm doing your program. Now, inevitably what happens is people, they start to get that, or they do get that. And then they come to enjoy everything that it took to get that. And they continue doing it for other reasons in addition to that. But that still is a major motivator. And there's nothing wrong with that. By the way, I like you promote the shit out of that, right? Like I think that, you know, looking good is amazing. It just is. It's a huge part of confidence for people, right? When you can, when you have put in the work to, you know, like I work hard on my physical

appearance. Um, and, and there's obviously a litany of reasons to why we just talked a lot about it, right? Like I love living this life of freedom and I love actually disciplined and doing hard things, but the confidence that I have, because I know that I, I am physically fit. Like people give me shit about, they, they, they, they, you know, they give me, they, they sort of like break my chops about, you know, being, being in great shape. And it's funny for me because I'm like, I mean, you know, you can, you can, you can break my chops all day long. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's a better, better it's it's just better it it's just better it just is it'd be

kind of like them razzing you about having money you're like okay i guess i mean yeah i mean is it not good to have some money though you know am i missing the joke here you know it's just it's just better and and so it but but i liken it to we can talk about money I liken it to, we can talk about money. I liken it to, and this is, you probably agree, in my experience, I would not consider myself rich, but I've achieved some level of financial success. I've gotten over the point of now not having to quote unquote worry about money

and bills are covered and everything is fine. And that's a lot of what making money has to offer. And I think there's a parallel in fitness in that. And I'd be curious to hear your thoughts, but when you get to a certain point in your fitness, and it's not only about how you look, but a lot of it is about how you look. It's also how your body feels and performs, then it's no longer something that causes you any sort of distress. You minimally have that where it's, it's like a box that you've checked. You know, I, I, I work hard to look good and you know, that's, there's some subjectivity in that, of course, like the face we have is the face we have fine but we work on our body and we

try to put it all together nicely and uh that's not something that is nagging uh and it's not something that's causing us to well to look in the mirror and be unhappy and it's it's nice to live without that because you know i've been there i'm sure you've experienced that before i think everybody has experienced that it's not nice and especially if you're experiencing it every day i mean when i was a teenager i had a fair amount of acne and it just bothered me because it looked bad it just did right and so i know what it's like to look in the mirror and be like i don't like what i see it doesn't look nice at all. So. Yeah, no, without a doubt, you know, I mean, before I stepped into the, into the lifestyle that I live today, I, I, I really despised myself. I was not,

I was not living a good life in any way, shape or form. And, you know, but I, I, I also just want to get back to the money thing. Like money is awesome. It really is, you know but i i also just want to get back to the money thing like money is awesome it really is you know and when you're able to achieve a level of financial freedom um you know there's a lot less stress there you know it comes with its own problems too right? And responsibilities, but you're not struggling to pay rent, for instance. And so that's very, very stressful. And a lot of people around the country struggle with that. And it's a real thing, right? And people struggle with even the ability to buy food. It's a real thing. It's a massive problem. I will just say this. Before I began my journey in fitness and nutrition, I had no money. None. I was broke. I was a broke bartender. I had nothing. And I didn't have a

savings in the bank account. I had no family to lean back on, but I did invest in committing to changing my mental, physical, and spiritual self. And I learned through the discipline of that, how to apply it to business. That is how it happened for me. So when I started to, when I gained the confidence and saw this change happening with myself mentally and physically, and then spiritually, when I saw that change, I said, Hey man, like I can apply these principles to my family life. And I now love myself. And that might sound, you know, cocky. It's not, there's nothing wrong with loving yourself. Actually, there's everything right about loving yourself because when you can love yourself in most cases, then, and only then do you have the bandwidth to love other people genuinely. When you hate

yourself or you don't like the person you are, you spend most of the time thinking about how much you hate yourself and you don't have much time to think about other people because you're caught in a self-centered fear environment and it's not a pleasant place to be. And you don't have time for others. And so when you take care of that, you can build this confidence level and this love relationship with yourself. You don't have to worry about being a bad guy or a bad girl.

You know what I mean? You don't have to worry about that piece of your life. It's not going to create the amount, the overwhelmingly abundant amount of stress that it typically does. And so you have a lot more time for others and a lot more time to do other things that create value in life. And a lot more psychological and emotional bandwidth, right? Totally. I mean, i can imagine being in a situation i mean i've experienced that to some degree probably not as as as severely as

as you have but i could imagine just how distracting it would be i mean how hard it would be to focus on anything productive when you think about a lot of very, very, very successful people, like some of the most successful people financially, they're typically in like really great shape. And they typically talk, they typically talk a fair amount about their wellness habits and what they do to stay healthy. Like Richard Branson, for instance, that guy works out like an animal and he talks about it all the time. Tony Robbins and a lot of these big mountains of success and positivity and people out there, they have a practice of wellness in their lives. And it's because if you can commit to that, the byproducts of that commitment far surpass the byproducts of creating a successful business and generating revenue and money for yourself. They just do. Because once you can commit to yourself

and stack wins and build confidence and self-esteem, all that other stuff is an arm's length away. It really molds your identity, right? You start to become the type of person who shows up, who puts in the work, who does it when it's hard, who has dedication, commitment, consistency, all the things that are required to, if we're talking about earning money and succeeding in business, that is as far as the character required. I mean, that's a lot of it. It's not all of it, but that's a lot of it. Yeah. And you just do it better. You just do it better. When you are well, when you feel well, you just do it better. And unfortunately, a lot of people in this world, specifically in the United States of America, only worry about their health when it's absolutely necessary and too late. And I might get crap for saying this on your podcast, right? Like making a generalization like that.

And I don't mean to. Well, I would say that the data backs it up. There are plenty of statistics that would agree with you. And I don't think you are taking any pleasure in sharing it, but it is true. If we're talking about the average person, maybe not the average person listening to this podcast, but if we're talking about people in general, it's very true. Yeah, there's no point in waiting until it's too late to start to take your health into your own hands. It just, it's, it's, it's, it's as simple as saying yes or no. That's the craziest part. It's as simple as saying yes or no. And it doesn't, it's, it's, you know, some people don't have the means to eat, you know,

you know, take probiotics and do all these things buy everything organic and right uh eat eat fancy expensive meat every day you know ribeye steak every day right especially these days i saw i i didn't uh fact check it but but i saw somebody post something on one of the social media networks they were going to buy a ribeye steak and it was like 45 or something right now yeah no i mean there's it's just from the grocery store like from the butcher like oh yeah could i have a steak yeah that'll be 45 that stuff is nuts but but you do have the opportunity even if it's hard to get the right nutrition, right? Like if you don't have access to the right nutrition, going outside, making a commitment

to going outside and taking a walk. Start, you know, start there, you know, like if you can commit, if you're not doing anything right now and you're listening to this podcast and you are not, you don't have access to a bunch of healthy food and, and, but, and you don't have the cash to join a gym, right? Workout equipment, go outside and, and, and, and walk for walk for 20 minutes, go take a walk, you know, and then make that 20 minutes, 25 minutes, and then that 25 minutes, 30 minutes. And then before you know it, you're going to be walking 10,000 steps a day and 10,000 steps a day is going to get you an enormous amount of upside, an enormous amount. People underestimate the power of walking, what it does for you physically,

the power of walking, what it does for you physically, first and foremost, but ultimately mentally, right? Like walking is my main resource for cardio. That's what I do. I walk, I walk a lot, you know, I walk. Do you find it helps in your business? Does it help? Because a lot of creative people throughout history and that, that is, that means artists, but it also means scientists and other fields that people wouldn't necessarily think of as creative. But a lot of history's great geniuses were zealous about their daily walks, and they credited a lot of their best work to their walking that they consistently got a lot of their breakthrough ideas walking. I've created all of the businesses that I've launched on runs or walks, all of them, creatures of habit, the meatball shop, Seymour's. I run with my phone in my pocket and I don't run with music or walk with music typically. And I think, and it's, it's, it's on distract. It's not, it's, there's no distractions and it gives me an opportunity to really think and to really dig through my concept or dig through

some theories that I may have. And I always have my phone on me so that I can just take my phone out and do a voice memo or write in my notes a name or a product or a system. But I always have, if you saw my voice memos, I mean, they go way back. I could write a book just out of my voice memos. Um, and it's a great tool to have, you know, um, I've developed everything on walks or runs all of them. Yeah. I'm not surprised. I, this is, this is something that actually I want to incorporate into my routine because I don't walk. I do cardio, but currently I have an upright bike. So I hop on the upright bike for 30 minutes a day. And I almost always have one or two calls that I need to make for work. And then if I don't have

any work calls, I usually will use that as an opportunity to call a friend because in the past, I've been pretty bad about staying in touch with just about anybody. I mean, even like my brother-in-law who I've known since I was 16, you know, and we still have a very good friendship, even somebody like him, I just wouldn't make the time. Cause I'm always doing the next work thing. And there were the next thing with my kids. And occasionally there's a thing I just want to do. Like I'll play golf on Sunday afternoons. That's like the one thing I do for to do. Like I'll play golf on Sunday afternoons. That's like the one thing I do for myself each week. Uh, but I would not make time for,

for connecting with other people outside of maybe part of that. Now that I think about it is I answer emails every day and DM. So I actually have a lot of social interaction, but it's not, these are, these are people who in some cases I would say, I guess they're, they're, they're digital friends I've made, you know, I've never met them in person, but they're now relationships. I've emailed with some people literally for like seven years, consistently have, have emailed with, with people. But, but anyway, I try to, I figured it, it would be smart for me to give some time to cultivating other relationships and friendships of people I really do like. I just hadn't made the time for it. And so that's what I do with my cardio.

And so it's not time where I can think, obviously. And it's probably a little bit too intense. It's like a four or five out of ten so i can have a conversation but i couldn't do a podcast like this because i'd be breathing and it'd be annoying to listen to um but it's probably a little bit too even if i weren't to do the calls it's probably a little bit too much to to think uh because when your legs are kind of burning uh for for you know 20 30, 30 minutes straight, that's distracting. But, um, I'm reading a book called wired to create, and they were talking about walking

and there's research on the ability of, or, or how walking can help you tap into, you could call it your subconscious, or, um, you could call it, uh or you could call it your type one processes, different terms for it, but how it can help facilitate creative breakthroughs or just good ideas for solving problems. And so it's something that I have on my little list. Like you, I'm always taking notes of things I think of throughout the day. I use Google keep. So I just dump them all in this app and then I process them on my, on my desktop. Cause it's easier to go through things than go through it on my phone. And so I put in there to carve out some time for walking every day and see what I

can get from it. Well, what I do is, so I train every morning and after I train lifting, I get on the, I get on the treadmill at a, at an incline and I walk depending on where I'm at in training. Sometimes it's just 20 minutes and sometimes it's 40 minutes, but I'm committed to 12,000 steps a day. So that's what I sort of, that's my coach has got me on 12,000 steps a day, no matter what. And so inclusive of that walking at 4.30 every day, between 4.30 and 5.30, I go out for a walk. And sometimes that walk is, you know, I take a business call.

Sometimes I don't take any calls and I just think. Sometimes I call my mother. That's like a cue for me to call my mom because I'm not good at that. You know, that's something I've added in as well. Call my mom, call my dad. Yeah. Call my, call my family on my walks. But you know, it, um, the walking thing is, is really incredible. And I think that anybody that's looking to step into, you know, changing or trying to be a little bit better. It's such a great way to do it. It's such a great way to just start. I've been trying to get my mom to just go

outside and walk for 20 minutes and, and kickstart that, that habit. Maybe when you call her, that can be her cue. I wish it was that easy, man. You know, I understand you had mentioned earlier in the podcast you can't you can't change people and i totally agree i've i've tried to do that a couple of times and it did not go well and it turned out to be a massive waste of time and just just waste of energy but i do believe in continuing to offer help to those who want it and that that the, the distinction for me is not to become a hard bitten, just black pill. Nobody can change. Everybody is, is, is, is, is dysfunctional and blah, blah, blah. No, I think we all have things that, that we need to improve and we know that.

And those of us though, who are ready to make a change then those are also the people who are fun to help i think because they're willing to listen and they're willing to try and work at it and not just give you reasons why it's not going to work or why they will always be this way you know yeah the. The other thing that I would just add to that is you don't have to take it all on at one time. It can start with just one commitment. It can start with just going outside to take a 10-minute walk every day. Tomorrow. Yeah. Just one commitment. It can start with, you don't have to eat healthy breakfast, lunch, and dinner. If you've been eating unhealthy for

the last 25 years, but if you can commit to one meal, one meal, ideally the first meal of the day, because the first meal of the day tends to project what the rest of the day is going to look like nutritionally. So if you can commit to one meal, if you can take a 10-minute walk, do one thing. Commit to one thing. Don't try to take down Rome all in one day. Do one thing. And that one thing, if you commit to it, is going to help make a massive change. And then before you know it, that one thing is going to influence the next thing and then the next thing and then the next thing. And that is the mission with what the business that I've just launched is to help people to try to commit to one thing. And it would be awesome if that one thing was the protagonist from

Creatures of Habit. But if it's not, it's not. If somebody is listening to this and I've given them some sort of motivation to want to just commit to one thing, whatever it is, one thing, man, you can do anything once and you can only live one day at a time. So if you can do anything once every day, you're on your way. And if they want to try your product as that one thing, where should they go? How do they find it? They can go to creaturesofhabit.com. So it's creatures with a K, creaturesofhabit.com. And they can check out the website. I've taken cues from you, Mike, you know, we have a bunch of cool things on the website that they can, they can check out. And I'm straight up transparent. Mike has a, an incredible website that I've been dissecting for years and using as a resource and a tool for my journey.

But he has a macro calculator on his website. And I've used it so many times that I said, I've got to have one on my website. And this is the kind of dude Mike is. I called him up and I said, hey, man, I'm building this business and your macro calculator has been so helpful for me. Would you mind if I put a macro calculator on my website? And he said, not only am I down for you to put a macro calculator on your website, but I'm going to help you put it on there. And so he had his team help me figure out how to do it. And so there's a cool macro calculator on there and we've got some meal plans attached to them and some fitness programs that you can use. But you can also go on there and buy the protagonist and incorporate it into

your life. It's really, really delicious. And you can make it a bunch of different ways. You can make it overnight oats, which is the way I love to do it. So I just, before I go to bed at night, I take some almond milk and I put it into a jar, shake it up, throw it in my fridge. And in the morning it's delicious and ready to go. That's how I had it as well. I liked it a lot that way. Not that I didn't like it hot. I just, I did like it more as overnight oats, just as a matter of personal preference. I thought it was very good both ways, but I particularly liked it as overnight oats. Yeah. That's definitely my favorite way to do it. I also really love it in a smoothie.

So you can just take the pouch, pour it into a blender with ice and milk of choice or just water. I throw a half a banana in there. I blend it up and it's just insanely delicious, like thick, substantial smoothie. You can just add hot water and mix it well and let it steam for a minute and a half. And it's a delicious bowl of hot oatmeal and protein and all the goodies. And, or you can just do it in the microwave. You can put water in it, mix it and throw it in the microwave. And if you're really in a pinch, which is what I tend to do sometimes, and I have a few of them in

my bag and I need a healthy meal on the fly, I just pour it into a bowl. I mean, I just pour it into like a shaker jar, add cold water and just pound it. Um, cause it's, it's really tasty, you know, and I'm getting all the good stuff that way too. So, you know, it's, um, super versatile. It's amazing for people that are traveling. It's amazing to just have in your pantry. Um, and, um, and I would, I would love if, you know, people would give us a try for sure. And something I don't know if you mentioned, I just want to make sure everybody knows that it also has protein powder as well. So it's it, you had mentioned the nutritional stuff, the D3, the omegas, the probiotics, the digestive enzymes, but also

has protein powder as well, right? Yeah. It's got more protein per serving than any other protein and oatmeal product on the market. It's got 30 grams of plant-based protein. It's also gluten-free, allergen-free, plant-based. So there's not, you know, very few people- Easy on your stomach. there's not, you know, very few people. Easy on your stomach. Very easy on your stomach. And, and also for everyone. Right. So like I've got kids, my kids love it. They like, it's so hard to get my kids to eat anything. And when I, when I, when I pull out my, my, uh, protagonist overnight in the morning, my four-year-old son is like salivating because it really does taste like, I mean, look. Little does he know.

It tastes like dessert. It's like a sweet, delicious, well-balanced with pink salt. Like I'm a chef too. You know what I mean? Like I'm like a trained chef. So I spent a year working on making this thing delicious and craveable and something that I'd want to eat every single morning. And so my kids are just like, Oh my God, it's like, it's like cake, give me some. Um, and so, you know, they eat it, uh, they eat it in the morning, uh, with me and they love it. And that has sort of influenced me to want to make a kid's line, right? Because if we can start, start our kids young on the healthy goodness, that will instill those habits from an early age. Love it. And if people want to follow you personally, where can they find you on the social medias?

On the social medias, you can find me at Michael Chernow. That's C-H-E-R-N-O-W, at Michael Chernow, anywhere. That's C-H-E-R-N-O-W at Michael Chernow anywhere. I've spent most of my time on Instagram and Facebook, but I'm taking the bait and I've started building out a TikTok. So you can find me on- I haven't done it yet. I did it.

I'm in it. I'm going for it. Are you doing the little dances? You know, I'm not doing the dances yet. I refuse. I can't do the dances if I'm an'm doing, I'm not doing the dances yet. I refuse. I can't do the dances if I'm not doing the dances yet, but I am doing some of the fun trends, um, like the good soup.

Um, I got, I got a good soup up there. Uh, but, uh, yeah, you know, just remember that creatures of habit is with a K it's not with a C. Um, and, um, yeah, you know, there's, uh's this, this journey is, is totally accessible, totally accessible. You've changed thousands of people's lives, man. You have, man. I'm, and I'm here to say that I am absolutely a person that you have deeply influenced. You know, you really, you've, you've deeply influenced me and um and i use your supplements because i know the amount of research you've put into them you're not putting garbage

out there and there's a lot of garbage and so i use the nootropic almost every day i use recharge um i use your plant-based protein for my smoothies. Um, I use all your stuff, dude, because I fucking have faith in it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I don't think about it. I don't, um, you know, I don't like for, for a pre-workout, you know, like I use your pre-workout because I was scared that some of the other pre-workouts I have, we're going to like, I can't imagine they were good for me. Like, I just, I can't imagine they were good for me. And so I use yours and I just don't think about it, you know? So you, you've influenced me, your products, you know,

the last thing I'll say about, about what you do and what I do now and what I've done for years, you know, with food, there's nothing else on the planet that gets as intimate with our bodies as food and beverage. Nothing else. There is nothing goes into our bodies the way food and beverage does. It is the most intimate thing we do as human beings is eat and drink and, of course, partake in sexual activities but but even those things don't get as in you know deeply ingrained into into into our makeup right like we think about eating food i mean yeah we're

literally the food we eat is what sustains our body i mean the protein we are turns into our i mean it's just like it does nothing know, like as great as sex is you can't survive on a diet of just sex. No. And, and, and so it's such a, it's such a relationship, right? It's, and that's why so many people struggle with it because it's such a relationship, just like any relationship people struggle, marriage, business partnerships, you know, family, like it's, there's, there's always some sort of a struggle with it, right? Like a deep relationship with anything. And so the better decisions you make about the things you put inside your body, the better you will be in all aspects of life. You just will. And, and, and if there's no way, there's no other way

to describe it, right? Like you just said it. And it's something you really have to experience yourself, right? Firsthand. Yeah. I mean, look, I think the greatest accomplishment that I've had in my life, you know, of course I am incredibly passionate about my family and my children, right? Like I like those that is there's no there's no doubt that that is an incredible component of my life. that I am a better husband and father because of the amount of energy and time I've put into myself. And it's not selfish. It's just, it's really, it is a tool and a motivator for me to be the best human being I can be. And it all starts with what you put inside. It really starts with what you put inside because it makes you, like you said, man, you know, it actually physically, it physically makes you. To use the word literally, literally.

Yeah, it makes you, right? And so, you know, like if you can think about it that way, you know, the decisions that you make around the stuff that you put into your body will ultimately make you a better human being or a worse human being. And I wanted to create something that people can easily put into their daily life that will make them better. And so it's so funny that it's oatmeal, right? Like who would have thought, but, um, that's, that's my story. That's where, that's where it started for me. I didn't want to put something out there that was a healthy, you know, like something that I'm going to have to explain to everybody what it is. I said, I want to do something that is just taking something that everybody kind of knows and loves already and just make it really optimized. And, and, and that's it, you know? And, and again, like I know before we, we hopped on, you know, I, I, I also didn't want this or don't want this to

be a sales pitch for creatures of habit, but I can't help, but have a story that really I don't, it's beyond believe in, it's my life, right? And the things that I've been able to put on the board are a direct result of the investment I've made in myself. And part of that investment has been this oatmeal story you know and so that's what it is that's that's really what it is i love it i think it's a great story and a great product as as i've mentioned uh you you sent me some months ago and i liked it my kids liked it and so again anybody who wants to check it out creatures with a k of habit.com and uh the the product is the protagonist which is an oa right if i remember correctly for for the play on the spelling which is fun and i really appreciate you taking the time to to do this and i look forward to our next conversation

absolutely mike you're a legend dude and um i really appreciate you and i appreciate you having me on and letting me tell my story here absolutely and i'm flattered and i really appreciate the support it's it's nice to to hear that now and again because as you know you get into work mode especially you know i i'm in my little cave and i just stare at my screen and I work away at the next thing. Um, but it's nice to, to hear how, um, my work impacts people because ultimately that's, that's the real, that's the real pay of it. That's the thing that never gets old, uh, going all the way back, not to, not to take us off on another tangent, but going all the way back to some of the comments we made about money, that quickly loses its utility and it's not very exciting to me. And this is something that I wanted to comment. I know a

couple of people who are very successful. One guy, he's probably a billionaire at this point. Another guy is on his way to it and they love making money. They love it. They love business. That's in one case, that's what he likes to talk about. He'll talk about other stuff, but what really excites him is business. He just loves it. He loves growing his business. He loves figuring out new ways to make more money. And he's a super great guy, great friend.

But that is just not my personality. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's just not my personality. And so I don't find the same satisfaction in that element of growing a business as he does. For me, I find more satisfaction, just more gut level, emotional payoff, hearing, getting an email from somebody and they say, Hey, I read your book. I followed your program for six months and I lost 25 pounds. I gained muscle. I got stronger.

I'm more confident. I'm a better dad. Now I'm a better dad now I'm a better husband now and I feel like I finally have my fitness under control and I just want to say thank you that just means a lot more to me than taking my

monthly distribution from Legion it just does said it man it's the truth so anyway thank you I appreciate you I appreciate the work you're doing. And again, I look forward to the next conversation. We'll have to, maybe we'll be able to do an update and we'll explore some other angle of entrepreneurship and see where it takes us. Thanks so much, Mike. Have a great rest of your day, man. Well, I hope you liked this episode.

I hope you found it helpful. And if you did, subscribe to the show because it makes sure that you don't miss new episodes. And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you. And if you didn't like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email, mike at muscleforlife.com, muscleforlife.com, and let me know what I could do better or just what your thoughts are about maybe what you'd like to see me do in the future. I read everything myself. I'm always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode and I hope to hear from you soon.