Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Q&A Part 6: Tendons and Ligaments and Lifting, Cutting and Strength Loss, and Shady Supplements

Episode Date: February 5, 2015

In this podcast I answer reader/listener questions about protecting tendons and ligaments while lifting heavy (1:37), what to expect in terms of strength loss when cutting (13:07), "amino spiking" and other supplement scams (27:57), and more... Want to submit questions for me to answer? Go here: http://www.muscleforlife.com/ask-mike-anything/ ARTICLES RELATED TO THIS PODCAST: Debunking the Myth of Weightlifting and Joint Problems: http://www.muscleforlife.com/weightlifting-joint-problems/ How to Build Muscle and Lose Fat…at the Same Time: http://www.muscleforlife.com/build-muscle-lose-fat/ “Muscle Memory” is Real and Here’s How It Works: http://www.muscleforlife.com/muscle-memory/ How Much Cardio You Should Do (and How Much Is Too Much): http://www.muscleforlife.com/how-much-cardio/ How to Speed Up Your Metabolism for Easier Weight Loss: http://www.muscleforlife.com/how-to-speed-up-metabolism/ How to Take Workout Supplements for Maximum Results: http://www.muscleforlife.com/how-to-take-workout-supplements/ Pre Versus Post Workout Supplementation of Creatine: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23919405 Want to get my best advice on how to gain muscle and strength and lose fat faster? Sign up for my free newsletter! Click here: https://www.muscleforlife.com/signup/

Hey, it's Mike, and this podcast is brought to you by Legion, my line of naturally sweetened and flavored workout supplements. Now, as you probably know, I'm really not a fan of the supplement industry. I've wasted thousands and thousands of dollars over the years on worthless supplements that basically do nothing, and I've always had trouble finding products actually worth buying, and especially as I've gotten more and more educated as to what actually works and what doesn't. And eventually after complaining a lot, I decided to do something about it and start making my own supplements. The exact supplements I myself have always wanted. A few of the things that make my products unique are one,

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That's muscleforlife.com forward slash audiobooks, and you'll see how to do this. So thanks again for taking the time to listen to my podcast. I hope you enjoy it, and let's get to the show. Hey, this is Mike Matthews from MuscleForLife.com. Welcome to another episode of my podcast. In this episode, I'm going to be doing another Q&A. This is, in case you're not familiar with it, I have a Google moderator page set up, which I'll link down below in the description of the video.

And if you're listening to this, you can find it at muscleforlife.com forward slash ask hyphen Mike hyphen anything. And what it allows you to do is submit questions and then vote on other people's questions that you like or dislike. And then Google, you know, the algorithm of the program, basically just the questions that have, you know, a lot of likes and not a lot of dislikes rise to the top. So I can pick them and then answer them. And it's just a good way for, you know, you to submit your questions and then let other people vote on them. And so I can answer the questions that are on the top of most people's minds, essentially. So in this episode, I'm going to be, I chose four questions that I've also been emailed about quite a bit. So I know there's just a lot of people out there that would like to know about these things. And that is the recovery ability of tendons and ligaments versus muscles and how to avoid getting hurt basically. Um, and how big of a calorie deficit can you go into depending on how overweight you are?

Um, creatine and caffeine, do they counteract each other? And amino spiking, uh, which is, uh, a supplement scam thing basically. So let's get to it. Okay. So the first question here comes from Katie from Indiana. He says, Mike, we hear about muscle groups, recovering and growing any literature on how well the body can repair and strengthen things like joints, tendons, et cetera. Fear of injuring these is what stops me from pushing myself harder at times. And that's a good question. Um, I haven't seen too much in the way of a scientific research on it. I'm sure it's out there. I've seen a fair amount of research on basically showing that weightlifting is, when performed properly with proper form and with weights that you can actually handle properly,

that it's safe for the tendons and ligaments and joints, which I'll link an article down below that I wrote on this. And there are some pretty extreme examples out there, some studies that were done with powerlifters on this. Um, and, and there's some pretty extreme examples out there, some studies that were done with the power lifters, uh, on steroids as well. So lifting, you know, pretty absurd amounts of weights and still the, the compressive forces and the shearing forces in the case of like the squat and deadlift were well within, um, uh, tolerable ranges on, on, you know, ligaments in the knees and, uh, and then also like in the lumbar portion of the lower back. So there, the, the, the kind of just general, uh, you know, opinion

that weightlifting is bad for your joints and tendons ligaments is definitely false if it's done correctly. Um, and where now, if we kind of, if we kind of merge that with the anecdotal, we do see a lot of people, probably know a lot of people. If you're in the gym, you know, if you've been in the gym for years and if you kind of just know people that are into working out, you're going to see people that hurt their shoulders and usually joints, shoulders, knees, elbows, or that have problems with them. And in my experience and also now just working with a lot of people, this is, there are a few factors in play. One is poor form, especially on certain things, certain exercises, you're, you're pressing bench, pressing, military, pressing, you're deadlifting,

you're squatting. Even your leg pressing, you really have to be, be, I wouldn't say careful, but you have to be strict on form. And, you know, people see YouTube videos of powerlifters, you know, going for PRs and sometimes their form does fall out a little bit. And they, though they're doing that, knowing that it increases the risk of injury. They don't train that way. They train, you know, powerlifters that know what they're doing. They train in very strict form, but you know, when they're in a meet and they're trying to hit a personal best, they don't really care if their back is, you know, is going to be slightly rounded on that deadlift. They just want to get the weight up. And they know that, and same thing when they're in the gym,

you know, trying to hit PRs, preparing for meets and stuff. And that's just a risk they're willing to take. I don't think that is a good way to go about things if you are like me where I go in the gym to stay in shape. I like being strong. I like being muscular, but I'm not competing. I'm not doing it necessarily as a competitive sport. I'm doing it as more of a hobby type of sport, I guess you could say, which doesn't mean that I don't take it seriously, but I don't see any reason to, you know, yeah, it would be, it'd be, I guess, cool to pull maybe 500 pounds or something. But

if I were to eat a bit of food, if I were to be a little bit fatter, I probably could get that without having to break my form. But you know what I'm saying? If I, it would be cool to, to, to hit some super high number, but I don't think the risk of injury in terms of what it would take training wise is worth it. So with that said, if you are, well, actually before I go on, there is another factor of genetics, which on the next podcast, I'm going to be interviewing somebody from DNA Fit because I got a DNA test with them and found it pretty interesting and thought you guys and gals would like to see, um, how their testing works, but also kind of how it plays out, you know, what in terms of like

genetic blueprint versus, um, actual real world experience. Um, so there are, some people are more genetically prone to getting injured than others. Ironically, I have a genetic predisposition to injury, even though I've never really had any major injuries, which is probably just more a testament to, uh, my lifestyle. Um, I've, I've, you know, for, for, for many, many years now, um, I've always eaten well in terms of getting the majority of my foods from, you know, nutrient dense foods. I've always eaten well in terms of getting the majority of my foods from nutrient dense foods. I've never been a huge junk food person, so I'll have some here and there, but I get the vast majority of my calories are from nutritious foods. I've always kept my body

hydrated, been good with my sleep hygiene, using different supplements that improve health like vitamin D and multivitamin and so forth. So I've been doing a lot of good things for a long time and kind of built up a strong injury-resistant body. But genetically speaking, I'm more prone to injury than the average person actually in my tendons, in my ligaments in particular. So there is that where some people, like I know one guy, I just know of him, I know his brother a bit more, but one, this guy is freak strong. I mean he doesn't even really lift and he came in the gym and pulled 405 for, was it one? Or I don't know.

It was at least one, if not a couple reps. And he doesn't even lift, really. And yeah, his form was terrible. But still, I mean, that's ridiculous. I've never seen anybody that doesn't even work out, you know, be able to even budge 405. And this guy just got off the ground with terrible form. And so you'll have people like that. And he's done it now. I think he's kind of gotten into lifting, but he's, his form is terrible. It doesn't get hurt. Uh, I know another guy, similar thing. I mean, just terrible form. I don't know how on his deadlift, he hasn't blown his back out yet. Just his lumbar is just rounded

the entire time. Um, so there are people that, uh, can go on like that for years and they're just not genetically, uh, prone to getting injured that for years and they're just not genetically, uh, prone to getting injured. And it's very, very hard for those people to get injured. And it's not like these guys have great diets or anything. Uh, one of them is on drugs and you would, the, the, the freak strong guy, not on drugs, but this other guy I know is on drugs and terrible form. And that, that increases the likelihood of injury because when you're on steroids,

your muscles, they outgrow and outpace your tendons and ligaments because the steroids cause the muscles to grow but the tendons and ligaments do not grow at the same rate. They don't keep up. So what'll happen is you're in the gym and the weight feels light. You feel like you're pulling, let's say, 450

and it feels like nothing. It's okay, 460, 470. But what you don't feel is that your tendons and ligaments, uh, they haven't been able to, there's a natural process when, when you're not on drugs, that as your muscles grow, uh, your body is not going to allow the muscles to grow way faster than tendons and ligaments can handle. So, um, what that, when, then that kind of comes to the, to the question that, uh, that Katie was asking, which is, you know, do you have to worry about that as you're getting stronger? Are you just all of a sudden going to, you know, blow your knees out or, or cause some, you know, bicep tendon tear or something? And the answer is generally, generally speaking, no, unless you were very genetically predisposed to injury. And even then you'd probably have to, you'd have to

have poor form and you'd have to have a poor diet, you know, where your body's malnourished and probably poorly hydrated. And you put enough factors in play, enough negative factors in play. Sure. Uh, then you can, you can get hurt doing everything quote unquote right. You know what I mean? So, but for the average listener of this podcast and just kind of follower and reader of Muscle for Life, you're not going to have that issue because you're going to be doing a lot of things right. You're going to be lifting with proper form. You're going to be giving your body adequate recovery and your muscle groups adequate recovery in between workouts, which if you don't, that can

increase the risk for injury too, which is just obvious. If your body hasn't finished repairing the area and then you're going and trying to blast it again with another workout, there's one, a greater chance that your form is going to fail, and two, there's a greater chance of injury. So if you are keeping your body properly hydrated, if you're doing all these things, uh, correctly, then you don't have to worry about injury. Uh, you can, you can push hard and heavy in the gym and you use your form to, to moderate what you can and can't do. Uh, when I am doing, I mean, there are certain exercises you can kind of like if your last rep or two is a little bit sloppy, not a big deal.

You know, your bicep curl, kind of like your arms last rep or two is a little bit sloppy not a big deal you know your bicep curl kind of like your arms exercises your shoulder exercises not that you should get sloppy necessarily but you can get away with like if you're doing side raises and you're coming down to your last rep and your last rep you know you're it's probably going to be you know a little bit of a sloppy looking rep it's that that's okay it's not you know if you get the weight up and it's decent that's fine but i don't i don't approach the big lifts with that mentality. I don't approach my squats or deadlifts or pressing with that mentality. I wouldn't say that I need to have picture perfect form on every single rep, but I want to be, there are certain things that need to be in.

On my deadlift, I need my spine has to stay neutral. My hips and shoulders have to rise at the same pace. There's certain things. And if, if I, if that starts to go out, then I'm just going to drop the weight and stop the rep. And you know, with my, with my pressing I want to see my elbows tucked in. I want to see the weight kind of in that groove. I don't want it going all over the place. And on, on the squat, I want my knees to be in line with my toes. Uh, depth, obviously depth is not really related so much to injury. It's more just the validity of the rep, but, and I want to make sure that my hips and shoulders are rising and lowering, you know,

rising at the same pace. So I'm not, you know, you'll see a common squat error that guys make is they'll squat down and then they'll shoot their hips up with their, with their shoulders remaining at the same elevation. So they kind of get like this and then good morning, the weight up, which is a lower back exercise like this, right? So you kind of like, you have this heavy weight squat down, you're in the squat position, shoot your hips up and then bring your, your, your shoulders up. Uh, that's bad. I mean, that puts a lot of shearing force in the lower back. Um, and depending on how strong your lower back is, again, you may never get hurt, but it just increases the risk. So I pay pretty close attention to my form, at least I try to.

Sometimes when it's real heavy and, you know, I know that when you're in that last rep, it can be hard to maintain form. But I'd rather miss a rep and have to sit. That's why I squat in a squat rack because I've had to do that before. I've had to sit the weight down, just, you know, heavy weight, go for that last rep. And as I'm pushing, as I'm pushing up, I feel that, uh, if the only way to get this thing up is to start getting wobbly and start with my knees or start bringing, shooting my hip up higher. And then I'd rather just sit the weight down and yeah, it's a pain in the ass. You have to strip it and put it back, but I'd rather do that than do a sloppy rep because like I spoke about in the last podcast, getting injured sucks. You have, you miss time and, uh, you know, it's painful. It's annoying. It's just, I'm much, uh,

I want to avoid injury at all costs. And if that means that maybe I miss, you know, what I could have gotten that one more rep, maybe, um, okay, fine. So I'm going to, you know, what I could have gotten that one more rep, maybe. Okay, fine. So I'm going to, you know, continue working on my strength so I can get those reps solid. So yeah, so I think that's about all I have to say on that one. All right. So let's move on to the next question here from Nick F from High Springs, Florida. I don't know where that is, but I'm in Tampa, Tampa Bay area. All right. So Nick, he says, I've been in a calorie deficit since November, 2013, 190 pounds, 1900 calories. My body fat has gone from 25 to about 14. That's a long, that's, I doubt he's been in a, I doubt he's been strict on his diet

if it's been a year. And that's great that he, that, uh, you know, he has gotten down 10%. But a year of, just to put it in perspective, I've worked with quite a few people that were very strict and on point with their diet. And in a year, you know, went from, I've had women go from like 200 pounds to 120-ish. I've had guys lose upwards of 100 pounds in a year. But anyways, so Nick says his goal is 10%. Unfortunately, his strength has suffered, and some exercises were to suggest I proceed from here calorie-wise. So when you are in a calorie deficit, when you're cutting,

you can expect some strength loss. And it kind of depends, though, where you're at. It depends on your conditioning. If you're new to weightlifting, you're going to get stronger. If you're new to weightlifting, you start doing things right. And you go into a calorie deficit, you're going to get stronger. You're going to build muscle is what's going to happen. Um, I'm going to link an article down below where I, you know, kind of talk about this. Um, and, or if you are in a detrained state, meaning that you were once in, in, let's say you were once muscular, once in shape, like if I were just to stop lifting period for a year and get fat and then decide to get back into it, uh, and go into calorie deficit and start weightlifting again, I'm going to build muscle

because I have muscle memory on my side and muscle memory is a real thing. I'm gonna link an article down below. Um, essentially I, I won't get into the science of it, which I get more into in the article, but basically once you've built muscle, you've, you've permanently changed the structure of those, of the muscle tissue. Uh, and it, it building it the first time takes much longer than rebuilding it. So, uh, if you are, you know, if you have, if you have muscle memory on your side, then, then you can be in a calorie deficit and you're going to gain muscle and strength. But if you are fairly experienced, you've been in the gym for a bit, and you've kind of built that foundation, your newbie gains are behind you,

and you go into calorie deficit, you're probably going to lose some strength. Some people don't. The only thing I can really think of on this is there's probably just a genetic factor here because I tend to lose a little bit uh, when I'm in a deficit, but my body seems to be resilient in that way where I won't notice it. And for like, really nothing will change. I can continue gaining strength in my first three weeks or so when I'm in a deficit. And then my strength starts to plateau. I just, I'm just stuck. Like every, my, my weekly workouts are essentially just mirrors, like same, same weight, same reps,

which is kind of, uh, you know, I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't say disappointing cause I'm expecting it, but it's, it's fun to at least that's really good. You get in there for you want to, you know, you want to beat your numbers. So you just kind of cruise in that sense. Um, and then after about six weeks in a deficit and I start to notice the strength, a bit of a strength decrease, I'll lose. I usually don't a strength, a bit of a strength decrease. I'll lose, I usually don't lose much weight in terms of weight on the bar. I'll just lose reps. So, and in working with a lot of people, this seems to be the general case is no strength loss in the beginning. Strength gain seems a little bit rarer, but no strength loss in the beginning.

And then after about six weeks or so, a slight loss in strength, which kind of just progresses as you go on from there. And depending on how long you're in a deficit where, which me personally, I don't like to be in a deficit more than eight to 10 weeks. And I, and I kind of keep my body in a place where I'm never eight to 10 weeks away from looking a certain way. Like if I need to get ready for some sort of photo shoot, if I need to get really lean, then, you know, I'm eight weeks away from that essentially, which is like right now, I'm probably around 8% body fat. I weigh about 190 pounds. Uh, and I'm six, two, by the way, a lot of people, I get asked that a lot just because people want to probably like know just for my body, how I look and what does that translate to in terms of height and weight, which my weight has always been strangely low. Like I'll get guessed wrong,

you know, at, uh, like if I go to universal studios or something like that, or theme parks, they'll guess me 10, 15 pounds higher than I actually am. Um, so that's kind of just strange, but, uh, you know, that's in terms of the deficit. I don't, because after eight to after about 10 weeks is when it starts to just grind on me where my workouts, I'm having less energy and I'm just starting to really feel it. For the first six weeks or so in a deficit, I don't feel it. It doesn't really feel that different. I don't get hungry or anything, whatever. But if you are losing a little bit of strength, that's fine. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're doing anything wrong. As long as you're, as your,

you know, calories and your macros are set correctly. And as long as you're not over exercising and particularly not overdoing the cardio, uh, which I'll link an article down below on how much cardio you should do and why. Um, but as long as you're, you have everything right, then you should just know that, uh, you know, what is, what you're experiencing is kind of how your body works, basically, is what it boils down to. And also, it's just kind of relevant for Nick that if he started at 25% and he was in a deficit for a year, or he was saying a deficit and he got down to 14%, that's not actually being in a deficit for a year.

If you are in a consistent calorie deficit for a year, you're going to lose a lot of weight. You're going to lose, I mean, like I said, I'll have people start at 300 pounds and then be at 200 pounds by the end of a year, being in a deficit for a year. So my guess is maybe his day-to-day intake was 1,900. My guess is he probably wasn't being too strict on weighing and tracking his intake. So some days it jumps up to 2,100. Some days it's 1,800. Some days it's 2,000, which at the end of the week, when you're looking at your total weekly deficit, that obviously can skew it up or down in terms of what you think is happening.

And then my guess is his cheating was a a bit out of control, which I mean, just know you can you can be 100% you could weigh and track every gram of food you put in your body during the week. And let's say, you know, by the end of Monday through Friday, you've lost 300 grams of fat, you've lost, you know, whatever, three quarters of a pound. And then the weekends come and you drink and you eat whatever you want. Cause you think it's like your cheat days or whatever. And you can gain that all back in two days, easy, no problem. Um, and a lot of people do that. And then, then, then they get into, it's just a never ending treading water type of situation. Um, I'll link an article down below on cheat meals. So you can see how to do it better,

basically, where you can still enjoy yourself and eat more or less whatever you want during these. Really, it comes down to like one meal a week, but you can prepare for it. You can do some things so you can enjoy yourself and not get in the way of the fat loss process at all. But the last part of his question here is what he should do now. And like I said, my guess is I'd have to get more information from him. But my guess is he hasn't been that strict on his diet or has been making some mistakes. So it sounds like somebody like this, if he's still eating 1,900 calories and he's down to 14%, that means his metabolism, he hasn't really slowed it down much is what it sounds like. So he probably would just, if he wanted to get leaner, my guess is, uh, he could either do a reverse diet up to, up to his total daily energy expenditure, which I'll link an article down below on how to do that.

Um, but it may not be necessary depending on his body weight. Like if he weighs 180 pounds now, he probably could just, let's say he weighs 180 pounds and he's exercising like three or four days a week or three or four hours a week. let's say he could probably drop his calories to 1700 a day, uh, keep his protein high, you know, carbs, moderate, high fats, moderate, low, and, uh, and up his exercise a bit to like maybe six hours a week and can, and then just continue losing fat without any issues. But if he is, it depends, like if you're feeling're feeling you know a bit run down and in his strength is just uh you know declining week after week then i would say just reverse diet up and enjoy the food your body's going to feel good you're going to sleep better you're going to

you know your training's going to go better and then once you have your intake up to you know where it should be to maintain then you could go back into a deficit. And, you know, going from 14% to 10%, it's very easy. I mean, that's, um, 200 pound guy needs to lose, let's say eight pounds of fat or whatever. So, you know, that's, that's two months, uh, if you do it right. So that's what I would say. Okay. So the next question here is from Braden, uh, and he's in Okinawa, Japan. I want to go to Japan one day. I heard Tokyo is a cool place. So he says creatine and caffeine, does one inhibit the others?

Is this a myth? Studies have claimed caffeine renders creatine ineffective. Are these studies outdated, misleading, or do we have to choose between these two helpful supplements? Good question. I'm going to link an article down below where I talk a bit about it. But basically, long story short is there are two or three studies I think I've seen. There's definitely one for sure.

I think I've seen two or three, though. No more than three. I just don't remember. It's in the article. I wrote it months and months ago, so I just don't remember off the top of my head. But basically, the mechanism whereby caffeine can inhibit the effects of the forced production benefits of creatine, not vice versa. Creatine doesn't have any effect on caffeine. Its caffeine would be the antagonist in a sense.

The mechanism is plausible, but there's not enough research on it to know just yet. Are we just looking at confounding factors of the research that's available available and are things skewed? We just don't know just yet. It's possible though, though, you know, if there's some more research that's going to be done on it, then it very well may come out that, you know, it's pretty well established. Like don't, you don't want to have caffeine and creatine together. And, uh, personally just to be quote unquote safe, I don't take like my pre-workout that i use which is my pre-workout from my supplement company legion that this is why i left creatine out you you'll see creatine in a lot of pre-workouts and i think the reason why companies include

creatine is because monohydrate is not very expensive and it works and if somebody's not on if they're not taking creatine and they start taking creatine they're going to to notice a difference, give it a week or two to accumulate in your system. And you're going to, you're going to lift more weight in the gym. And so, but that, that's not really what you want from a pre-workout. You want increased energy. You want, you want more, uh, uh, short term, like you want more energy, you want more focus. You want to be able to, you're pushed your body's performance limits, uh, in, in, in a, you know, over the course of the next hour, you can, you can buy creatine and just take, it's so cheap. You can just, you know, you can buy a creatine post-workout type supplement,

like what I sell, or you could just buy monohydrate powder by itself and just take five grams a day. So I also didn't really like the logic of including creatine in a pre-workout. I'd rather use that space in terms of grams per serving and that money to put in something that is going to be immediately beneficial in terms of performance. So I recommend if you're taking, if you're using caffeine and you're taking creatine to just take them separately. So in terms of like, because caffeine, it remains in your system, depending on how your body metabolizes it, it can remain your system up to six hours, six, seven, even eight hours of, you know, you drink a cup of coffee. So, um, again, I wouldn't take it at the same time.

Let's say like, if you're don't take your creatine pre-workout with your caffeine, um, there is one study I've seen that indicates that creatine post-workout with your post-workout meal may be the best way to, to, to take it. Again, I say may, because it's not exactly definitive proof, but, um, at least it's one, you know, it's, it's some data to think with basically. Um, and, uh, cause I guess in the study, which, uh, I'll, I'll link, I mean, I'll just link the study down below. Actually, the data did show that post-workout supplementation versus pre-workout supplementation with creatine, that post-workout, they, they, there were more, it was more beneficial in a post-workout state. So personally, what I do is I have caffeine before I work out, and then I have creatine with my post-workout meal,

which there's definitely, my body is a very high metabolizer of caffeine, and I learned why in this DNA fit test, basically. I have, there are two, maybe three, and we'll get into it when I do that one. There's two or three genes that, genes that are responsible for, um, for clearing out, um, uh, what was it? It was like, I would say toxins, but I hate the whole toxins trendy thing right now. Um, anyways, for, for just clearing out, I guess it would be, it would be a detox type pathways really actually. And, uh, I have, I think it was two and I have one is like a slow, uh, metabolizer of toxins and the other is a fast metabolizer. I don't have the slow. I have two of the fast. So

this also then would relate to alcohol because alcohol is a poison basically. Um, but what it means is that my body clears toxins very quick. The effects come very quickly and they clear very quickly. So with caffeine, that's why caffeine hits me very fast. I can have caffeine and within 10 minutes, I'm like, it's fully, you know, I'm ready to go. My, my tolerance is also high. I don't like a few hundred milligrams of caffeine. I feel it, but it doesn't make my heart race. Like, you know, I feel it makes me feel good actually, but that's gone in an hour. I could go to sleep. I, not that I'm tired, but it's just out of my system completely in an hour. So for me, when I'm having my, my creatine, the caffeine, there may be still

a little bit in my system, but it's probably a lot of it's already cleared out. Um, for you, I wouldn't say I wouldn't necessarily worry about that. I would just don't take the caffeine creatine together. And if you really want to be safe to the point of quote unquote paranoid or whatever, then have it, have it later in the day. So if you have with, with the meal, with carbs, uh, which can help when you have creatine, you, you do want to take it with carbohydrate cause it helps with absorption into the muscles. Um, which kind of sounds like bro science, but, uh, there's, I, it's an article that I'm going to be linking on creatine. You can go, go check out the research on it. Um, it's, it's, it's pretty simple. The mechanism is, is makes sense. Um, anyway, so if you have your caffeine before you work out, if you really want to be quote unquote safe, have your, uh, have your creatine later in the day

when you, when you have carbs, it could be at dinner even. Um, and you would avoid any potential interference that might occur. Okay. So let's move on to the next one. This is from Jay Hellman, any potential interference that might occur. Okay, so let's move on to the next one. This is from jhelman84 from Calgary, Canada. He says, hey, Mike, with regards to protein spiking, adding in forms of BCAs to whey protein to make it test higher, how does Legion Whey stack up with the added leucine, BCA calories per serving? It's been argued that labels are incorrect. Your take? So if you're not familiar with what he's talking about, he's talking about my whey protein product that I have with my supplement company, Legion Athletics. I mean, the URL is legionsupplements.com,

but I want to expand the company beyond just supplements. Like I want to do, we're going to do a lot more cool stuff with apparel and maybe even some workout gear in the future and stuff. So that's why it's kind of, I want it to be more of an athletics thing. But right now we just have supplements. We do have some apparel. And so amino spiking is, if you're not familiar with it, it is basically, it's pretty simple. So a supplement company, they buy some cheap shitty whey from China, which we get contacted

by these people every week where I could be paying half my cost on my way if I didn't care about quality. And I just said, yeah, sure, ship me whatever you got. So you get this shitty way from China. You get it tested, and it's crap. Let's say it's like for 30 grams for a scoop would be like 15 grams of protein, carbs, and fat. And you want to raise that, but you don't want to pay for a good quality whey because you want to pay $3 a pound or whatever you're paying. So what you do is you add a cheap amino acid like

lysine, for instance, not leucine, but lysine. Leucine is actually kind of expensive. So you add a cheap amino acid and you then technically you can count those grams of amino acids toward the protein count of the product. So now if I added additional 10 grams of lysine per 30-gram scooper, it's now, quote-unquote, a 25-gram protein per scoop. And you look on the nutrition, when you're the consumer, looking at that, you go, ooh, 33-gram serving and 25 grams protein, that's a high-quality protein. It would be if it weren't amino spiked. So, um, there are quite a few companies that have been caught doing this. Um, I don't think I'm going to name any names because I'm, these controversies pop up fairly often,

but if you just Google amino spiking, uh, you'll, you'll see some, some big name companies that, um, basically people, uh, like I think something popped up on Reddit recently, where you have people, they work in labs, these third-party labs, and these people, they take it upon themselves to go buy 12 different brands of protein and just run it through their lab analyses and see what comes up and then put it on the Internet kind of thing. And I think more recently, though, there was a bit, it was, it might have been a university that did it. It was a bit was a university that did it.

It was a bit more formal than that. And a couple of big companies were were amino spiking. They were saying that 23 grams protein per scoop. And no, there were, you know, maybe 16 grams plus amino acids to spike it up. So and, you know, also different companies, depending on how shady your manufacturer is and how much they care about GMP, you know, good manufacturing practices, they'll just invent numbers. They'll just nutrition facts panel and who cares? Like, oh, it's 15 grams. protein, uh, I don't know, eight carb and seven fat. Um, then, you know, if in terms of like that,

that's what those, those grams of powder sort of breaks down into, then they just change it. And they'd be like, uh, no, it's now 22, three, two or something like that. Um, so that's with supplements. Uh, I kind of learned this the hard way as a consumer and then learned it really as a, as a, uh, having a supplement company myself now, how shady this industry is. And, uh, you know, there was, uh, I think it was just recently. Yeah. I saw it was New York times picked it up. It might've been, uh, the New York state attorney is going after, uh, supplement companies that are big supplement companies in Walmart that are just straight lying. Like you think you're buying Garcinia Cambogia pills and you're buying nothing. You're buying rice flour or whatever. I'll link that down below. So this, this industry is, it sucks. The supplement industry sucks. The people that

are like the big industry, you know, well, there are, there are some companies that I do respect, like Optum Nutrition, for instance, that's a company that I've seen with these amino spiking tests that have been done. Optum Nutrition has always come out clean. I've never seen like, there are claims on their nutrition facts panels from everyone that I've seen were spot on. Like maybe they tested a half a gram difference. I mean, that's just the difference of, you know, that's not because Onn is doing anything wrong. So there are companies out there that, and that's not surprising. Onn's a billion dollar plus year company. It's not in their interest to scam. And it's owned by a huge pharmaceutical company that owns a ton of farms that actually produce the whey. So they, you know, they own that whole vertical supply chain of whey protein.

So why? Why? Why would they risk their reputation to squeeze an extra $5 of profit when they already get the cheapest whey protein on the market? You can't get cheaper than Glanbia because they own the farms. But that said, there are quite a few, uh, decent, decent size or even large brands out there that are just run by scum. These guys, they just don't care. All they care about is, is making money. And you'll see that and maybe, you know, you go check out their Instagrams and all they do is brag about their shit that they have and, you know, show their, you know,

do is brag about their shit that they have and you know show their like like the rich kids like i love the shots of like it's the the the steering wheel of the ferrari with the rolex so you see the rolex there off there and then uh it's a sunset and it's like oh it's beautiful sunset and then trying to be inspirational or trying to pretend like i love also and some of these guys they'll try to like they'll try to say like look at at what we did. Like, look at this awesome Lamborghini that I got that we did it. We did it team. Like, what do you know? There's no, we in that shit. What do you, who like you're anybody that falls for that kind of shit? Like what? Hello? Like, look at this person, dude. This is a lot of these guys are just narcissistic sociopaths. Uh, and you know, yeah, that might sound me just going off and whatever, but trust

me, there's, I've been, I've been a little bit surprised with some of the behind the scenes stuff that I've seen in the industry and how little shits are given about not only producing a good product, but, uh, well, I mean, that's the base of any company, right? Produce a good product, give people what, what you say you're giving them and satisfy their just product needs. Uh, and then of course, companies can go beyond that and building community and building a recognition with people. And even then you can go higher into where you are helping people self-actualize and, you know, kind of become the type of person they want to be and stuff, which is where I kind of aspire to, uh, take things with Legion and take things as muscle for life, not just sell pills and powders, not just sell things, but really help people, uh,

find other people that are like-minded and help people really achieve their goals. And, and in, in terms of, of, you know, fitness, uh, it's not just about building muscle. It's not just about looking good. When you are, when your body is healthy and strong and vibrant, that changes your entire life. I mean, it changes everything. It changes your self-confidence, which changes how you approach your work. It changes how you approach your relationships, your, you know, both like romantic relationships, friendships and whatever. So anyways, that's kind of the, the amino spiking story.

And now back to my protein, my protein is a, is a hundred percent way isolate, um, which is very high. That means it's, it's, it's 90 plus percent protein by, you know, by weight. Um, and I went with that for not just that reason, but, um, well there's that meaning that see meaning that, see, it's not that weight concentrates are bad at all. It's just that you don't, that's where with a weight concentrate, unless you really trust the brand, just know that's where the shady shit really starts. starts to be starts is like you gotta have a way concentrate that's 50 protein by weight and the rest carb and fat and then amino spiked and maybe fudged even a little bit on the nutrition facts and you know now all of a sudden you have something that looks like a way isolate so you know what companies will often do to to but if something's 100 isolate and it truly is it's going to be it's

going to be a high protein by weight because that is the nature of why we isolate it. They, they isolate the protein and the carbs and fats are very, very low because there's like basically no lactose. Um, so we have a company, if they do a blend, let's say of like a way concentrate isolate blend. And the first ingredient is concentrate. That means there's more concentrate than isolate. And it means that there could be 99% concentrate and 1% isolate. It could be, you know, there could be the isolate could be on the, on the, on the, the label just so they can say it's a blend. And just because as a consumer, you associate whey isolate with a high quality protein. Um, so concentrates, it's not that they're bad. It's not that isolates are

going to give you better gains necessarily. It's just, uh, if you see a concentrate and if it's a brand like Optinutrition, I trust them. They're whey concentrates. Like I said, I've, they've, they've checked out every time that I, every, every, uh, test that I've seen, they've always checked out. So you can trust that. Um, isolates do also offer though, the benefit of, uh, no lactose, which, you know, um, lactose, many people are lactose intolerant to some degree. I'm, I'm not like, even on my genetic tests with DNA fit, I, I don't, I'm not, I'm not lactose intolerant, which, which makes sense. I do fine with dairy and I always kind of have, but even that there is a point where too much lactose in a day, even though I'm not lactose intolerant, upsets my stomach. Like in terms of whey protein and whey concentrate, if I do more than 50, 60, max 70 grams a day,

which I really shouldn't be anyway, but that's only two, you know, if I do more than two or three scoops of whey in a day, my stomach will be upset. And even at three scoops, it starts to not feel so good. So there also is that benefit of benefit of, uh, of whey isolate. And in my pro in the case of my product, it's a hundred percent whey isolate. And we added leucine four grams of leucine to every serving because there's research indicates that, uh, basically the, the more leucine, the higher leucine content in the meal, and especially in a post-workout meal, the more resulting protein synthesis occurs. And that's what we want to do is spike protein synthesis after working out.

So we added leucine to, to, um, to, to every serving, but those leucine grams are not counted toward the protein. And it's actually kind of funny when I first was, you know, explaining, this is the formulation to my manufacturer. This is my first manufacturer who were, they were great, but they just couldn't, they weren't, I switched to an even bigger company. The first was, um, you know, they have all the certifications and they're a legit company based in New Jersey, big, nice facility, but they're not nearly as big as the company I switched to. And the company I switched to, they just buy so much in terms of raws. You just can't touch their pricing basically. Um, unless you're, I have, I have like weird little rinky dink companies that,

uh, contact me that, I mean, they look like weird little rinky dink companies that, uh, contact me that, I mean, they look like it's an office like mine with some, like if I just stuck a hundred thousand dollars in machines in it and then said, Oh, I can make your supplements. And they'll offer me, offer me absurdly low prices where I just don't even trust. Like I don't trust their raws because where you source raws is hugely important. As I was saying, you can get cheap shit protein from China. You can get cheap shit, anything from all around the world. So, um, you need a manufacturer that you want, you need to care where your Ross come from and that they're high quality Ross. And two, you need to know that your manufacturer cares and know that, um, they're not screwing you because they can do that. I could

say, I want this awesome product and they could go, yeah, sure. No problem. You know, $10 a bottle. Yeah. Yeah. And I go, wow, that's a good price. Okay. And then what I don't know is, you know, the amino acids or the things that they're sourcing are just very low quality sourced from wherever. Where they don't, yeah, they don't care. Basically is what it boils down to. So you have to watch out for that stuff. But the first manufacturer I was going with who are, they're just, they're a good company.

But they're used to working with, they work with a lot of sports nutrition companies, big ones. They've done stuff for big, big companies. So they're kind of used to certain practices. And one of the things they're used to is amino spiking. And because it's legal, you can do that. So when I first was talking about my protein formulation, they were assuming that I was adding leucine to try to spike the protein content. And, uh, and then later I had to explain to them when I found out like, no, no, I'm adding it because it's, it's a good, there's, here's, here's why I'm adding it. And I don't want it counted toward the protein. It's not there for that purpose. Um, and then that made sense to them also because they were thinking like leucine is kind of an expensive amino acid for spiking like you would use something much cheaper anyway so in the course

in a case of my protein it's not amino spiked and uh you know i'm going to be reaching out to reach out to some big labs actually i'm going to start getting my stuff uh just third-party tested um also for now now that i'm established and running, I trust my manufacturer. They're good. They're a massive company. They do a ton of work for very, very big pharmaceutical companies. They have very tight quality control, every certification you can imagine. So I'm not worried about it, but I want to know for myself. Probably do it quarterly. Just get everything tested. Bottles, just take them right off. What is going to you?

What's going to go to my fulfillment house? You know, I'm just going to take and send to labs. And then also I'm going to show these things in my marketing as well. Show the analyses, which, you know, is, it counts for something. At least it can be frauded. Like there are companies that fraud that and, they find shady, uh, labs that are going to, they're getting paid to basically publish whatever to publish results, whatever you want. Or the trickier scam is what companies will do is they'll do a short run of a high quality product. So they'll still launch a product with, uh,

exactly what is on the ingredient label. They'll get that tested and then show that and be like, see, Hey, here it is from this big, you know, well, it was a big lab, good reputation. And then from there, then, then all future runs are like, you know, amino spiked or just missing certain ingredients or lower quality raws or whatever. But they're still showing that, that initial. So, uh, anyway, that there's another like little, little scam. It's just, unfortunately you have to be very, very skeptical with supplements and your trust in the brand and the people behind the brand is everything. Um, marketing means nothing before and afters mean nothing like really pretty much everything. Amazon reviews.

Don't even give me, I have, I do, I do well on Amazon, but there are some companies that destroy Amazon. And the, the, now that I'm like in that world and I'm kind of seeing how it works, there's a, I mean, I just don't want to, I don't want to, I'm not going to call any companies out, but it's a battleground on Amazon. And there are these companies, there are some companies that have gotten into wars. They go hard on each other. They, I mean, like there's some interesting things that I was reading about and now I've heard about from other sellers and like who are involved in this stuff or were on the

sidelines watching it of companies, um, running day, I guess Craigs Craigslist was like the vehicle where they do these things. And they were not only just buying negative reviews for each other's products, like that's just, you know, that was just standard practice where they would, you know, all you, let's say you'd say you're selling something on Amazon, you wake up tomorrow and there are 51 star reviews on your product all of a sudden, and your sales rank has tanked to half its normal where it sustains, you know what I mean? So they were doing that, but then it even got trickier where they were one company, I guess was, um, they were, there was a time when Amazon, the, you could order up to 999 units of a product. And so what this company was doing is they were

placing max orders, uh, for their competitor. And, but they were, I don't know, I didn't get all the details of the scam, but basically those products, they were not actually buying. They were doing it either with like stolen credit cards that then they would dispute those charges or the charges would get disputed. So in the end, the company that was getting screwed, it was getting the orders. They didn't actually get the money, disputed. So in the end, the company that was getting screwed, it was getting the orders. They didn't actually get the money, but they had to pay all the shipping, right? Or they were shipping it to some, some using some shipping scam, or then they would deny it and send it back. Long story short, what would happen is your company gets an order of a thousand bottles. They were doing it

at a time. So you might get 5,000 bottles, let's say your entire stock where you have sitting there for the next month, let's say, cause it, because some of these companies sell so much. I mean, I don't even know if 5,000 bottles will last a month. But massive orders on Amazon that you have to pay that shipping, right? You're paying Amazon to ship that stuff out for you. In that case, that's thousands and thousands of dollars. But then it all is going to have to come back. And then you're out of stock now for, let's say, three to four weeks while this gets sorted out, and everything gets put back into stock and re-inventoried, which I'm not sure on those returns if the company would have to pay it. But with the volume that these companies were doing, I'm talking about losing $20,000 a day in income. $20,000 a day in income. And so these companies go back and forth with things like this,

buying fake reviews, out of stocking each other, just doing all kinds of shady stuff. So yeah, the Amazon game is very, very interesting. Buying fake reviews, by the way, I mean, you can't, it's so common in Amazon that if you're not doing it, like I don't do that. I don't pay for any reviews. Even Amazon technically would ban you if they find you, but they don't ban a lot of these companies that so obviously abuse it. So I don't know what to say about that. Um, but you'll see products with thousands of reviews, five star average or four and a half star average or four star average thousands and thousands of reviews. And as a consumer, if you don't know, you're seeing like this multivitamin has thousands of reviews. It must be good. I mean, come on. But what you don't know is they're basically all

bought for or they're all bought. So, or, or, you know, 80% of them were paid for. And so that's, you know, even as a consumer, you have to be skeptical with that. Don't necessarily just see a big number of reviews of something on Amazon or anywhere and think that – don't let that be the closing factor. Like, oh, whatever. It must be good because no. There is no review system that can't be gamed, and Amazon is gamed so hard it's not even funny. And if all I cared about was money, I would just do the same thing.

I wouldn't attack other companies. What's the point of that? It's a waste of time and effort. Let them do their thing. And supplements are not a zero-sum game. People try different things. If all I cared about was money, all of a sudden you would see... Like my pre-workout pulse has about 500 reviews on Amazon and it's been on the site for a year and I've sold tens of thousands of bottles of it. And I have, you know, a very engaged following, engaged customers. And we do a lot to help, you know, people and they, they, they like that and they leave reviews. Um, but I've never paid or incentivized a review. And, uh, but if I didn't care, I would just do a, yeah, Craigslist set up, bam, you, you,

there's a simple little way that they do it. So it looks as a verified purchase and there you go. And I could have, I could add a hundred reviews a week to all my products instantly. And that would just make me a lot of money, but it's shady. It's a bad mojo, bad karma. I don't, I don't believe in that kind of stuff. So all that babble, basically my point is there are a lot of supplement scams out there and a lot of them are tricky and you just wouldn't know unless you really know what to look for. And even then you don't totally know, but you could at least get an idea like, yeah, this is probably bullshit. Even in terms of, I've seen there's some new company. I'm not going to say that I saw randomly who are a hundred percent trying to copy me to

the point of like, they tried to copy my website. They tried to the layout. They tried to copy my formulations of my products. They tried to copy my copy, They tried the layout. They tried to copy my formulations of my products. They tried to copy my copy, my angle. It's pretty close. I'm talking to my lawyer if – because like I'm all for competition, live and let live. But you can't just straight like – you got to do at least your own thing, put your own twist on it. You can't just go, oh, that guy is doing some cool stuff.

I'm just going to do exactly that. You know what I mean? That that's grounds for a lawsuit. So anyway, so this company pops up and they've taken a very similar formulations to mine and added quite a few ingredients, ingredients that I know are expensive for like, so you take a product. All right. I know how much my product is costing me to manufacture. And I'm spending a lot more than most companies. My margins are much lower than most companies and they're selling their product for more or less the same price, but they have an additional, what would cost about probably about $15 of, uh, 10 to $15, no less than 10, let's say $10 minimum of an additional raws. And then you have to add more flavoring. Flavoring is pretty expensive. Flavoring, sweetening, if you're not going to use cheap stuff, like I use natural stuff,

that can be a few dollars a bottle just alone. So the more stuff you have, the more flavor you need, the more sweetener you need. So we're looking at an additional $13, $14 in raw costs, and they're selling the product for the same price. So there's even things like that now that I'm a more informed consumer because of my work in the industry where I can look at certain products and be like, there's no way. There's no way that that has what it says it has or that it's good quality. So yeah, it could have all that if it was just crap sourced, like the cheapest possible.

You don't even care where these raws come from. You just need them to tell you, oh yeah, sure, it's glutamine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But what is it really and what quality? than to tell you, oh yeah, sure, it's glutamine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, but what is it really and what quality? So, you know, in the end, it boils down to,

do you trust the brand? Who are the people behind the brand? Do you trust them? Look at the executives, you know, the CEO, what is he like? If all he talks about is how much money he has and shows is that type of person and then, oh, he'll party, and then, you know, Vegas, this, that, cars, girls, watches. he has and shows is that type of person and then oh reporting and then you know vegas this that cars

girls watches if the ceo is wants to be dan blizerian or trying to be dan blizerian just know he's probably screwing you like that's just just that type of person i've known those people in person i have a great example one guy that was the ultimate just didn't give a shit he would ask he would he would behave he would he was a likable guy, charming, and he would talk the talk, but in the end, he didn't care about helping people. He didn't give a shit. He wanted money and that's it. And he's one of those guys, like he'd always, he'd have flashy watches and he'd be showing off his car and that's all he cared about was how much money he was making and partying. So as a consumer, I would say, I mean, yeah, I could say this is a pitch for my stuff. But do the same for me.

Check me out. And if you trust me, then that's a reason to buy my stuff. And also you can look at the products. And like I said, I'm going to be getting some third-party testing done. I'm doing everything I can to try to be, uh, to make it as easy to trust me as possible. And, and in, you know, show that my products are what they, what I say they are and show that the formulations are based on good science. And I'm very transparent about everything, but in the end you do have to go with your gut, your intuition on the whole brand and the people

behind it and you know, what their message is. Uh, for instance, like I'm going to be starting my affiliate program soon and, uh, going to be sponsoring some people, you know, what their message is. Uh, for instance, like I'm going to be starting my affiliate program soon and, uh, going to be sponsoring some people, you know, doing that whole thing. And one thing that I'm not interested in doing is I'm not interested in sponsoring super drugged out dudes or girls because, well, yeah, it might look impressive and, but that's not really, that doesn't resonate with me and it doesn't resonate with my message of like natural weightlifting, getting fit, staying healthy. I'm all for like looking good and being in great shape. But, uh, that is, it's just a little bit dishonest, uh, when companies are taking these guys that are steroided out to, to the gills. And these guys are like, Oh yeah, taking my post-workout drink to make sure I make gains.

Like, yeah. Okay. Your post-workout drink with, you know, and then what? And then the insulin and the five grams of steroids. Oh, okay, cool. Um, so anyways, I guess that's just my, my message to you as a consumer is, um, be careful, really looking to the companies you're buying from. Don't assume, uh, that you're, you're getting, you're getting what you're paying for. All right. So that's all for this episode. I know it ran on a bit long. I'm sorry about that. So next week, I'm going to have this DNA fit interview. Interesting stuff. I think you're going to like it because it'll just give you some insight into your body as well. And some things will probably click for you where you'll go, oh, that makes sense. That's why I always this or that

or whatever, even if you don't get the test done. So yeah, that's next week and see you then. Hey, it's Mike again. Hope you liked the podcast. If you did, go ahead and subscribe. I put out new episodes every week or two where I talk about all kinds of things related to health and fitness and general wellness.

Also head over to my website at www.muscleforlife.com where you'll find not only past episodes of the podcast, but you'll also find a bunch of different articles that I've written. I release a new one almost every day. Actually, I release kind of four to six new articles a week. And you can also find my books and everything else that I'm involved in over at muscleforlife.com. All right. Thanks again. Bye.