Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Research Review: What’s the Best Rep Range for Building Muscle?

Episode Date: June 27, 2018

Rep ranges and muscle building is a controversial topic. Some people believe that you can maximize muscle building by training with high reps and light weights (

you want to see performance increases in the rep range that you typically train in. And the reason I say that is there was one study that was published where they had one group train the typical eight to 12 rep range. Another group trained 20 to 30 rep range to failure. And they compared muscle size gains. Muscle size gains were the same. Hey, this is Mike from Muscle for Life and Legion Athletics. And as you probably know, I work pretty hard to understand and promote high quality diet, nutrition, and exercise science.

And that's why I have spent and continue to spend quite a bit of my time researching and then writing articles, writing books, recording podcasts, recording videos, and so forth. And that's why I reference quite a bit of scientific literature in all of my work. Now, something I don't do though, is produce a research review where individual studies are broken down and analyzed because one, my plate is already overflowing with projects as it is. And two, I honestly don't think that I could do it better than the researchers who are out there creating research reviews

and whose work and research reviews I myself read regularly like James Krieger, Eric Helms, Greg Knuckles, Mike Zordos, Alan Aragon, and Brett Contreras. And so I had an idea, why not get those guys to come on my podcast to discuss various studies that they have analyzed in their reviews and share with us what they've learned and how we can use these key takeaways, how we can use the information in those studies to better optimize our diets, exercise routines, supplement regimens, and our overall lifestyle. Well, I reached out to them and they thought it was a great idea. And so a monthly series was

born. Basically once a month, I'm going to have one of these guys on the show, and they're going to break down a study that they have analyzed in their respective research reviews, and they're going to explain to us why these studies were conducted, how they were conducted, what the results were, what their interpretations of the results were, and how we can use the information to improve our diets, our training, our supplementation, or in some cases, just the overall quality of our lives. And this one I was particularly pleased with because the rep range and muscle building topic is a controversial one. Theories and speculations have been flying around for some time now, going back to when I first entered the fitness space five or six years ago. And fortunately, a fair amount of really good research has been done in that time and has provided quite a bit of insight as to how rep ranges really do affect muscle building.

That said, many people still believe that this is a very black and white matter. You know, some people believe that the absolute best way to maximize muscle building is to simply train with higher reps and lighter weights. Others believe that the absolute best way for everyone in all circumstances is to train with lower reps and heavier weights. And other people believe that everyone should always be doing both, should be periodizing their training with both lighter work and heavier work. So what's the story? Who's right? Well, that's what James Krieger and several other researchers wanted to find out when they conducted a meta-analysis that was just published this year in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. As you will hear about in this interview, James and his colleagues combed through 21 different studies that compared how training with heavier or lighter weights affected muscle and strength gains.

how training with heavier or lighter weights affected muscle and strength gains. And in this episode, James is going to break down exactly what they found and how you can use it to optimize your programming and ultimately your muscle and strength gain. This is where I would normally plug a sponsor to pay the bills, but I'm not big on promoting stuff that I don't personally use and believe in. So instead, I'm just going to quickly tell you about something of mine, specifically my one-on-one coaching service. So the long story short here is this is the personal coaching service that I wish I had when I started in the gym many years ago. Every diet and training program that we create for clients is 100% custom.

We provide daily workout logs and do weekly accountability calls. Our clients get priority email service and discounts on supplements, and the list goes on and on. Furthermore, my team and I have also worked with hundreds of people of all ages, circumstances, and needs and goals. So no matter how tricky you might think your situation is, I promise you we can figure out how to get you results. If I have piqued your interest and you want to learn more, then head on over to www.muscleforlife.com forward slash coaching and schedule your free consultation call now. coaching and schedule your free consultation call now. I'll tell you, there's usually a wait list and new slots fill up very quickly. So if you're interested at all, don't wait, go schedule your call now. Alrighty, that is enough shameless plugging for now, at least let's get to the show.

Hey James, welcome back. Welcome back for another research review. I'm excited to listen and learn. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Okay. So, so today's topic is going to be high versus low load training and how do these things impact strength and hypertrophy? Yeah. I'm excited to talk about this because I said this on our last research review, I forgot that they're being separated into interviews. Last time we talked about frequency, which is a kind of a controversial, a lot of people argue about what is best or what is good and bad with frequency. And it's a very similar ongoing debate with intensity. So is heavy weightlifting better for fewer reps or is lighter weightlifting for more reps better? What study are we going to be looking at today?

You'll just take it from there because I know you've done a lot of research. You haven't just looked at this one paper on this. You've done a lot of research on this topic. And so I'm very curious as to your thoughts. Yeah. So just recently, my friend Brad Schoenfeld, he's the lead author on this paper, but I was one of the authors on this paper as well. We did a big meta-analysis, basically comparing strength and hypertrophy adaptations between low and high load resistance training. So what a meta-analysis is, and I know I explained this in the last interview, but I'll explain it again. A meta-analysis refers to where you take a group of studies and you statistically analyze them as a group to kind of get an idea, okay, well, what's the overall trend among this body of literature that we have? And meta-analysis of studies and you statistically analyze them as a group to kind of get an idea, okay, well, what's the overall trend among this body of literature that we have? And meta-analysis can be pretty useful because one study can't necessarily tell you anything. And even two

studies can't necessarily tell you a lot, especially in the field of exercise science, because the sample sizes of studies are so small. We're talking 10, 20 people in each study. That's not a whole lot. But when you start having, say say eight or 10 or 15 studies, then you can kind of get an idea. Okay, well, what's the overall trend here? What are most of these studies showing? And that's what a meta-analysis can do. And so that's what we did. And what we did is we took this group of studies, we actually found 21 studies that we put in the analysis. And then, or basically in these studies, they had to compare low load training and high load training. So the low load training in this example, we defined as less than or equal to 60% one rep max.

So for most people, that's going to be, if you were to do a set to failure, that's going to be probably at least 20 reps to failure or more. So you can probably think of it as maybe anywhere from 20 to 40 reps to failure. That's a fairly high rep set, fairly light load. The other group was, you know, more than 60% one rep max. And, and, you know, that's going to be usually anything less than 20 repetitions. So, you know, eight to 12, you know, things like that, 12 to 15 are, you know, it's going to vary from one exercise to the next. But that's just kind of gives you a rough idea of what are we talking about when we, when we're comparing and say heavy to light

loads. And how high did the load go in terms of percentage of one rep max? I'd have to go back and actually look. I don't remember off the top of my head. I'd have to go back and look. Like was most of the data in certain rep ranges or? Most of the studies didn't go above six to eight reps per set. I don't think anything went heavier than that. Okay. So, so a little bit, a little bit higher than the more traditional, like most strength training programs are more in the, you know, four to six, five to seven, sometimes three to five, if it's a bit more advanced. Yeah. Yeah. So we grouped these studies together, we analyzed them. And basically what we found is for, for hypertrophy, there was basically, there was no difference in hypertrophy between the two different loading

schemes. As long as you did your sets to near failure or failure, it didn't really matter. It didn't matter whether you were doing eight to 12 reps to failure or 15 to 18 reps to failure or 20 to 25 reps to failure. It didn't matter. Your muscle gains were the same. Now for strength, definitely training with the higher loads was better. And that makes sense from if you think in terms of specificity. So specificity is something that basically refers to if you want to get good at something, you have to do that thing. You know, in this study, you know, we're looking at changes in one rep max. Well, if you want to get stronger at a one rep max, you're going to have an easier time

doing that if you're training at or near a one rep max, which would mean fairly heavy loads. The further away you get from a one rep max, the less strength effect you're going to get. You'll still get a hypertrophy benefit and you'll get the same hypertrophy benefit, but the strength benefit isn't there. Because I think a lot of people don't understand that strength and size, while they're related, they're not exactly the same. You can get stronger without getting bigger. And you can also get bigger without necessarily getting stronger, at least I would say in terms of a brute force,

one rep max type thing. I had Greg on the show. It was several months ago to talk specifically about that. I thought it was a great interview. Just to boil it down, was saying that, yes, that seems to be very true when you're new. So like in your first year, you're going to gain muscle, even if you don't really gain that much strength. But he said, as you progress into your intermediate and advanced phase, strength and size become more closely correlated so much so that I'm going off of memory here and paraphrasing. So, you know, take this for what it's worth. But as you progress in your journey, as a natural weightlifter, there's a point where it does get important to focus on improving your whole body strength. Now, of course, you can do other things and especially depending on what

you want to do with your physique and adding volume to muscle groups that you need to bring up. But, and if I remember correctly, he was saying that there is a point probably where if you're no longer gaining strength on your key lifts with your big muscle groups, you're probably going to get stuck also in your size. What are your thoughts on that? So, I would agree with Greg mostly on that. There's some, maybe some caveats to what I would say. So number one, the research, looking at the impacts, the relationship between strength and size, there are some limitations to it. I guess I'm probably getting a little bit technical here, but a lot of that data is

based on what you would call a between subjects analysis. So what you do is you take a group of people, you look at their strength gains over, say, 12 weeks. You also look at their size gains over 12 weeks. And then you just run a correlation between the two and say, okay, did the people who got stronger over the 12 weeks, did they also get bigger than the people who didn't get as strong, right? So that's a between subjects analysis. The problem is, is that doesn't necessarily tell you what happens within any particular individual. And unfortunately, there's been almost no research done within people. There was one study done on untrained

people that was a within subjects thing. And just to give you an idea how poorly strength and size are related in newbies, in that study that I'm talking about, there was practically almost no relationship between how people's strength gains and their size gains. I mean, it was pretty amazing, but these were complete newbies, untrained subjects. What was interesting though, is that there was a little bit more of a relationship for the isolation movements compared to the compound movements. So for example, I know in the study for a leg press, there was almost no relationship between changes in quad size and changes in leg press performance.

Point there is for people listening is like, that means that they could essentially not progress. So they could just start with whatever weight and say, just do 10 reps. And then they really never add weight to the leg press or yeah, there's just no real progression, but they still were adding size to their quads. Or vice versa. They could have gotten significantly stronger and yet they experienced no size gains at all. I mean, so it could work both ways. I mean, that would seem to be a response then, right? Because like, if one person can gain size without progressing, and another person really doesn't get any sized progressing, they definitely would not have gained size not progressing. So yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, that person, and again, I get in that's out there, right in the literature, some people just respond

very well to weightlifting. And some people don't even if they do everything, right? Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, there's Brett Contreras. And I wrote an article about this while back about individual responses to training. And because a lot of research just looks at averages, right? But averages don't tell you what happens in any individual. What's interesting is when you look at some of these resistance training studies, you see a wide spectrum among people and how they respond to the exact same program. There was one study where most people experienced, I'd say probably a 5% increase in muscle thickness, but there were a few people that had up to like 15 to 20% increases for the exact same training program. And then there were a few people who had no increase at all, or actually even, even actually had a, had a slight decrease. So that,

that may have just been, you know, random error in the ultrasound that they were using, but it just shows some people just had, I mean, it really comes down to genetics. Some people just have much better genetic responses to resistance training than others. And some people got really unlucky with the genetic lottery. So I would just add for anybody out there that has experienced that. And again, I guess I'm just speaking now from working with a lot of people, even people that are genetic low responders, you can still build muscle. You can still get a great physique. You're just going to have to work harder for it than some people. And then that's just what it comes down to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Totally. And there are some people that, uh, will just put on muscle no matter, you know, they can just do pushups every day and then they look great. And you're like, okay. And then some people, no matter how hard you train, I mean, you're never, you'll definitely get a better physique and a great physique, but you, you won't necessarily be, let's say a top natural level competitor. You know what I'm saying? I mean, some people are just, you know, I think of somebody like Jeff Nippard, for example, the guy he's super knowledgeable, very smart about training and

everything. So he's really knowledgeable. But I will say the thing about Jeff though, and he'll tell you this as well, he's also very genetically gifted. And anyone who's seen pictures of Jeff's mom will know where the genetic gift comes from because his mom is totally jacked. so so he inherited pretty good muscle building genes from his mother so i think i think he's also very short as well right so that i mean that just plays yeah yeah he's very short he's something like uh he's kind of like a tank you know like yeah i don't know i don't know it's hot i just seen the pictures and i'm like all right this dude's very short which also means that you put a pound of muscle

on him visually looks different than somebody who, I mean, I'm not, I'm not super tall, but I'm six two. There's just, there's a big difference there. And also there that also probably helps them with certain lifts as well, just because of how his body is built. Some people's bodies also just because their muscle insertions and anatomically they were built to be strong weightlifters. Oh, yeah. Some people like my friend Dean Somerset is great on this because he's done a great presentation on – I'll talk about squats, for example. Everyone will say, oh, you got to squat to at least parallel or lower. And what people that say that don't understand is some people, no matter what you do, will never be able to squat to parallel because of their structure. And actually, Dean gives a great presentation on this where he'll actually show bone structures. Some people's bone structures

will prevent them from ever being able to squat even down to parallel. They just, it's actually impossible for them to do it. So yeah. So, so people need to understand that there's just big genetic differences between people when it comes to lifting and things like that. Some people are just built much better to do certain things than other people are. Totally. All right. So yeah, anyways, I didn't want to completely derail, but I thought it'd be a worthwhile tangent. So getting back to your, you were discussing the study we had untrained. Yeah. The one study. So yeah, the leg press didn't really relate to the size and strength gains didn't really relate to each other, but there was a little bit of a relationship for leg extension. So it was a weak relationship. It was something like,

it's called an R squared value, which just kind of tells you the percentage variance that can be attributed between the two variables. The R squared was something like 30%, which means 30% of the gains in strength in leg extension performance could be explained by changes in muscle size. That's a fairly weak correlation, but it's certainly better than zero. And what that would tell you, at least in untrained people, changes in performance in probably isolation movements are probably going to correlate a little bit better with changes in muscle size than changes in compound movements. And that's because you think about it, there's a lot of skill involved in compound movements and you can get better at a compound movement just by improving

your technique and things like that. You know, and that's especially true with newbies. Yeah. Where, where it's not, it's not so much like your body actually isn't having from a, the standpoint of, of its musculature is there's not that much adaptation to occur because I mean, look at when at when new people start squatting, and understandably so, they start out carefully. So, it's usually very lightweight for not anywhere near close to failure. And then, okay, so they work their way into heavier weights and then they have that skill component, which is probably at least for the first few months, you are getting significantly better at the movement. And so, you're able to progress,

but not so much because for any other reason other than you're just starting, it's like learning to throw a football. You're okay. You're grooving in this motor pattern and you're getting better at it. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. But to add on to the caveat, I guess I would say to what Greg said, it definitely is true. The more trained someone becomes, the tighter the relationship between strength gains and muscle gains become. The one caveat I will add to that is that you want to see performance increases in the rep range that you typically train in. And the reason I say that is there was one study that was published where they had one group train the typical eight to 12 rep range, another group

trained, you know, 20 to 30 rep range to failure, and they compared muscle size gains. Muscle size gains were the same. The group that trained 8 to 12 reps, they saw significant improvement in their one rep max performance. The group that trained 20 to 30 reps to failure saw no improvement at all in their one rep max performance, even though they got just as big. So there's a certain specificity there. Now, I guarantee you, if you had did, let's say their 20 rep max performance, you would have seen a bigger increase in 20 rep max performance for the 20 to 30 rep group versus the 8 to 12 group. So there's definitely a specificity. So I guess the thing I would add on to what Greg had said is there definitely is a much tighter relationship between performance gains and

size gains, the more well-trained you become, but that's also specific to the rep range you train in. So if you typically train in the 20 to 30 rep range, well, I wouldn't worry about whether your one rep max is improving because that's not going to be indicative of your size gains, but you do want to worry about is your 20 to 30 rep max improving? That should be improving. That makes sense. Yeah. And then again, I don't want to oversimplify what Greg was saying, but I just want to get your thoughts on that basic because there is, I've experienced that. And I guess my experience of it is exactly what you're talking about, actually, because

I don't do, I haven't done a one rep max, a true one rep max test in a while. And I actually don't really do rep max tests very often. I more just work off of my working sets. And so I've found what you just said to be true, that if there are periods where I was not progressing, even going back to the double progression that you spoke about in the previous research review, where if I don't really see, I'm not really gaining reps, which, and I'm not able to turn that, leverage that into gaining, putting weight on the bar over an extended period of time. Not much is changing in my measurements or in my, in my body and where things have changed

the most were during the periods. And this was, I had a, I joke about, I had a good run now that I look back, you know, in my mid twenties before I had kids and more and more work responsibilities and blah, blah, blah, where I was like, I was able to put a little bit more time into my training. And also I, my recovery was better because I was younger. And so I had a, I had a nice, probably want to say four years or so where I was just able to make just using that simple double progression model, just consistent, steady progress on all of

my big lifts and really also my isolation movements. And it was during that period that I saw the most dramatic improvements in my physique. And since then progress has slowed for reasons really I just gave, but, and I've, and I've seen now for stretches where if I'm not able to, and sometimes I have to accept it. I mean, I'm sure you've run into this where simply because of life, like if I'm not sleeping all that well, you know, kids or work or whatever, that I have to accept that, like, I'm kind of stuck right now, but I understand why. And then I've been able to, when things are going smoothly, break through and make some progression again, see improvements. But again, I've just, that's just my experience where I've tried to get around what you just said by adding volume simply in terms of, okay, I could do extra sets of extra exercises and I could try to, you know, make my workouts harder, but that has, for me has not produced the results that, uh, progressing in my given rep ranges, uh, has. Yeah. And I actually also add to that too. You mentioned progressing in the big compound lifts and stuff like that. And you had mentioned isolation movements.

It'd be interesting. I actually, I want to see more data on this. Like I said, there's only one study and that one study at least was suggest that, and to me intuitively, it makes sense. Perhaps progression on isolation movements may actually correlate a little bit better with the size gains, at least in the muscle that you're isolating versus a compound movement. And that makes sense. I mean, it's like, you know, if you're trying to get bigger quads, your leg extension should be improvement. If your squat's improving, but your leg extensions aren't, chances are you're probably getting bigger in other places that are responsible for the squat improvement, you know, and not necessarily due to bigger quads. So, so that would be an example as well. I mean, I think a perfect example of that. I mean, some people, I think

it depends, right? Cause the quads are obviously heavily involved in the squat. And so I've worked with people that that's all they ever needed guys. And, and also girls that it was squatting and that gave them the quads they wanted. And that was it. They didn't even have to worry about just straight, just straight back squatting. That's all they needed. But let's, I'll say it's very rare for me. I can't even, no one, no one even comes to mind. But I don't know. I think my inbox is over a hundred thousand emails now from back and forth conversations. So I'll be surprised if I could go find someone who, a guy who, for example, didn't need to not just do work for his biceps, but actually progress and get pretty strong on the bicep curl to get the biceps that he wants. Same thing with shoulders, right? With like side and rear raises.

If I've worked with a lot of guys who have done just pressing and were disappointed with the overall development of their shoulders. And I've experienced this as well, where like to get anywhere with my shoulders, I had to get pretty strong on side raises to get anywhere with my arms. I had to get pretty strong on barbell curl and like a close grip bench press or a push down, for example. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Hey, if you like what I am doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, and if you want to help me help more people get into the best shape of their lives, please do consider supporting my sports nutrition company, Legion Athletics, which produces 100% natural evidence-based health and fitness supplements, including protein powders and bars, pre-workout and post-workout supplements, fat burners, multivitamins, joint support, and more. Every ingredient and every dose in every product is backed by peer-reviewed scientific research. Every formulation is 100% transparent. There are no proprietary blends and everything is naturally sweetened and flavored.

To check everything out, just head over to legionathletics.com. And just to show how much I appreciate my podcast peeps, use the coupon code MFL at checkout and you will save 20% on your entire order if it is your first purchase with us. And if it is not your first purchase with us, you will get double reward points on your entire order. That's essentially 10% cash back in rewards points. So again, the URL is legionathletics.com. And if you appreciate my work and want to see more of it, please do consider supporting me so I can keep doing what I love, like producing podcasts like this. I guess what we should probably do actually is probably talk a little practical, like, okay, so what are the practical takeaways here, huh? Yeah. Yeah. So it actually, that was good that you mentioned that because I was just going to

mention that there is a certain practical thing that you have to be aware of when it comes to this. So number one, this is great because it means that rep range doesn't really matter all that much. You know, whether you're training eight to 12 reps, 12 to 15, 20 to 25, as long as you're training to failure. And the caveat to that is as long as you're training to failure or near failure, if you're training well short of failure, then especially with the higher reps, then it's not going to work. If you're training well short of failure, then especially with the higher reps, then it's not going to work. It's especially important with the lighter weights because of the way muscle fiber recruitment works and everything. The only way lighter weights are going to work for muscle size is you got to, you got to experienced it, people listening have probably experienced it, that when you train in higher rep ranges, it gets harder. And this is particularly true in new people, right? It's harder to predict how many reps you really have left because there's so much burning. You're just in pain. You're like, do I want to stop because I'm just on fire? Or am I actually getting to the point where it's failure? And yeah. So anyways, I just want to throw that

out there just for people to keep that in mind. Yeah. And it's good that you bring that up because it does mean that while higher reps are great and it's especially great for, let's say older guys like me who are having joint issues or things like that, the lighter weights are much easier on your joints. You know, it's funny in my own training now, I typically don't do anything less than 12 reps per set. It's just way easier on my joints. I have some stuff where I'll do, you know, 20, maybe in the 20 to 25 rep range. So, but the problem with the 20 to 25 rep range to failure, it's not really necessarily conducive to all exercises. So good luck. 25 rep squat. Yeah. Yeah. 25 rep squat to failure or 25 rep deadlift to failure. I mean, that's not even necessarily safe. So there's some exercises you just either you can't do it because it's not

safe. Or as you mentioned, it's so you can't do it because it's not safe or as you mentioned, it's so painful that it's too hard for someone even to push themselves hard enough. And to keep showing up every week to want to keep doing it. I mean, if you hate your workouts, that's not a good place to be. Well, yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. Like, you know, 20 rep bicep curls to fair, that's not a big deal. I mean, I can do those, you know, I mean, yeah, it burns and stuff, but it's like, it's not something that I dread doing, you know, 20 rep bicep curls to failure, that's not a big deal. I mean, I can do those, you know, I mean, yeah, it burns and stuff, but it's like, it's not something that I dread doing, you know, but definitely if I had to come to the gym and do a 25 rep squat to failure, every time I came in, every time I was training legs, I'd probably start dreading my leg workouts

after a period of time. So. And I think that's one of the reasons why leg training has gotten like, uh, there's so many, so many people skip leg days is cause what's, uh, is, I mean, again, I guess I can't say, I don't know exactly these days, but back before I tried to even educate myself and I would just do bodybuilding magazine workouts. I mean, 10 by 10 squats was like a thing. Like that's what you did. That's how 10 by 10, I I've, I've done it many times and I hated it. I still would go do it just on principle, but eventually I was like, okay, there's got to be another way. This is the worst shit ever. Is there anything that, that again, I, this is maybe just my bias towards strength training. Cause I like it. Uh, but

do you think that there's a potential benefit over the longterm to at least including, uh, some heavier because of the potential more importance or correlation between strength and size that if you're going to gain strength faster, obviously with heavier weights, at least in my experience, it's been easier for whatever reason. It's been easier for me to progress just in the sense of gaining reps over time and being able to turn that over into weight on the bar. It's been easier for me to do that with heavier weightlifting. And I'm thinking more with my compound movements. I mean, I think where your curls and your raises and stuff and triceps push downs less important,

but with the compound lifts in particular, it's been easier for me to progress in the four to six or five to seven rep range than higher rep ranges, which is what I was doing previously. Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah. So if you look at the research on varying rep ranges, actually, in my research review, I have an entire evidence-based guide on varying rep ranges. So if you just think of it in terms of theoretically, you would think, okay, there might be a possible benefit to varying rep ranges because you train in a lower rep range, it enhances strength gains, which should then when you switch to a higher rep range. Kind of upgrade, right? Yeah, like upgrade your, you can then perform even better in your higher rep range is the idea. Theoretically, that should be true.

And then also vice versa. If you train in the higher rep ranges, that should improve your recovery ability. And so you can handle more volume, let's say when you train in lower rep ranges. So theoretically, there's a hypothetical benefit to it. I will say it hasn't necessarily panned out in the research, but one limitation of research studies is they typically only last eight to 12 weeks. So actually I'll go back to that study I mentioned earlier where they had, they actually had three groups of people in that study. They had one group that trained, I think, 8 to 12 reps, another group that trained 20 to 30 reps. And then they had a third group that alternated every two weeks. They did 8 to 12 reps for two weeks, 20 to 30 reps for two weeks and alternated. And what they found is there wasn't really, there wasn't any difference between the groups. I think it was only an eight-week study. There was a study that I ran the stats for, for Brad, that Brad published, addressed the similar question. So we had two groups. We had one group that just did straight eight to 12 reps the entire study. And I think it was eight or 10-week study. I don't remember. Another group varied their

repetition ranges over the week. So it was a whole body program, but Monday they did, you know, three to five reps. Wednesday they did eight to 12 reps. Friday they did like 20 to 30 reps. So they vary the repetition range. Statistically, there was no difference in the gains between the groups. Some of the effect sizes favored the varied group, but I talked about this in my research review. But if you looked at the individual data plots, it's really just because there were a few outliers in that group. So not really all that convincing. So I'd say the data doesn't necessarily support it. But unlimited that data is and you're talking, you know, three month studies here. It's very possible that over a much longer period of time, perhaps it'll make a difference. So yeah, there was something in one of the issues of mass actually on a review of DUP and the long story short, if I remember correctly is in high level strength training athletes, there was a slight benefit to varying rep ranges, but it wouldn't mean much to the average weightlifter basically. Yeah. So now I would say there's, let's say there is no benefit to it. Even if there is no benefit to it from a, let's say hypertrophy standpoint, I would say there's no benefit to it. Even if there is no benefit to it from, let's say, a hypertrophy standpoint, I would say there's probably benefits to it from other standpoint.

I think there's a benefit just from a psychological interest. I mean, I think a lot of people might get bored with doing the same rep range all the time. And also, I mean, I don't know about you, but I genuinely like workouts. I like lifting heavier weight more than lighter weight. Like I enjoy those workouts more. I still do both, but I enjoy the heavier training. Yeah. And that's, and that's, that's actually an important thing. I think people don't consider enough. I mean, you could have the most optimal training program in the world, but if you don't like it and you don't really want to adhere to it, well, it's not going to matter, you know?

So I would also question, I would wonder if, if simply liking your workout and looking forward to it, if that has performance effects that you may not be aware of that, that you're going to give a little bit more in those workouts and you are going to progress a little bit faster because simply because you're more into it, as opposed to just like, you know, going through the motions, doing what you need to do so you can leave. Yeah. I would agree that there may be a benefit to that. And in fact, I think there was a study that kind of related to that a little bit, but I don't, I honestly don't know for sure. So I vaguely remember a study that was out not too long ago where I think they had people, I think self-select a training program or something like that. I don't

remember exactly, but it's, but it sounded like the people that kind of self-selected their training program did better than the people that didn't. I, this is just vague memory I have, but that at least would tend to hint to the idea that a training program you like may, you may just get better gains just on that alone, just because you are more motivated psychologically when you're, when you're there and things like that. So there's a benefit there. And I also would say a potential another benefit to varying your rep ranges may be from a joint health perspective. So I would say, I mean, if you're training heavy all the time, you might be able to get away with that if you're in your 20s and even in your 30s,

but you're not going to get away with it once you get in your 40s and beyond. So I think just from a joint health perspective, there's a benefit towards varying your repetition range, which, you know, if you stay injury free, it's going to allow you to train more consistently, which in and of itself, consistency is obviously going to be one, being able to train consistently is going to be one of the most important things when it comes to gains. So absolutely. I totally agree. Makes sense. I think that's everything, huh? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Awesome. Well, let's just wrap up with, if you want to let everybody know where they can find you and your work and also let's tell them about your research review. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you go to my website, weightology.net, W E I G H T O L O G Y.net. Got lots of stuff on there. I got a lot of free content articles, a lot of podcasts I've

been on speaking events coming up. I'm going to be speaking in the UK here at the end of the month. And then also, if you have any Australian listeners, I'll be speaking in Australia in Melbourne end of June. So and they're actually going to be a lot of other great speakers at that event. Alan Aragon, Eric Helms, some other people are going to be there. Lane Norton, a bunch of other people are going to be there as well. So yeah, you can find out that information. All my social media accounts are on there if you want to follow me. You can find a list of all the research that I've published if you're interested in that. And then yeah, so I have a research review and some monthly subscription. And basically,

I cover a lot of the latest research in um anything that deals with muscle gain or fat loss and i cover both new research and older research as well because i think it's it's important to cover older research i think sometimes older studies tend to get forgotten but studies don't have expiration dates on them you know and you can or or shunned i mean i've had i mean it's stupid obviously but i've had people uh use that as like a retort like oh that study was published in 1999. As if we should just dismiss it out of hand because it's like, what are you talking about, dude? Yeah, the age of a study doesn't matter.

The only time it's going to matter is if for some reason the study used an outdated methodology and things have improved. Yeah, things have materially changed. Yeah. Yeah. But, but if it hasn't materially changed, then, you know, just because the study's old, doesn't invalidate it at all. So, yeah. So, so I cover a lot of stuff on there. I also have like an ask James section where, where members can ask me questions and I'll do the research for them, do the PubMed digging. If I don't know the answers already, answer their questions. And so, yeah, a lot of, a lot of little great features. A lot of the content is video content. So it's not just written research reviews, but I'll do actual video, recorded video presentations on some of these studies and things like that. So that's, you know, people are interested in checking that

out. Yeah, they can take a look at it. Well, thanks for taking the time, James. Really appreciate it. And again, everybody listening, go over to weightology.net and check out James's work. If you like my work, you will like his work. I guarantee you. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. Hey there, it is Mike again. I hope you enjoyed this episode and found it interesting and helpful. And if you did, and don't mind doing me a favor and want to help me make this the most popular health and fitness podcast on the internet, then please leave a quick review of it on iTunes or wherever you're listening from. This not only convinces people that they should check the show out, it also

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