Muscle for Life with Mike Matthews - Scott Herman on Tough Mudder, Breaking Plateaus, and More!

Episode Date: May 15, 2015

In this podcast I interview YouTube superstar and all-around cool guy Scott Herman on how to train for obstacle courses like Tough Mudder, how much muscle you can build naturally, how to break through weightlifting plateaus, and more! SCOTT'S WEBSITE: http://muscularstrength.com/ ARTICLES RELATED TO THIS VIDEO: Why High-Intensity Interval Training is Best For Weight Loss: http://www.muscleforlife.com/high-intensity-interval-training-and-weight-loss/ How Much Cardio You Should Do (and How Much Is Too Much): http://www.muscleforlife.com/how-much-cardio/ How Much Muscle Can You Build Naturally? http://www.muscleforlife.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-build-naturally/ The Best Way to Gain Muscle Without Getting Fat: http://www.muscleforlife.com/the-best-way-to-gain-muscle-not-fat/ Want to get my best advice on how to gain muscle and strength and lose fat faster? Sign up for my free newsletter! Click here: https://www.muscleforlife.com/signup/

Hey, it's Mike, and this podcast is brought to you by Legion, my line of naturally sweetened and flavored workout supplements. Now, as you probably know, I'm really not a fan of the supplement industry. I've wasted thousands and thousands of dollars over the years on worthless supplements that basically do nothing, and I've always had trouble finding products actually worth buying, and especially as I've gotten more and more educated as to what actually works and what doesn't. And eventually after complaining a lot, I decided to do something about it and start making my own supplements. The exact supplements I myself have always wanted. A few of the things that make my products unique are one,

they're a hundred percent naturally sweetened and flavored, which I think is good because while artificial sweeteners may not be as harmful, some people claim there is research that suggests regular consumption of these chemicals may not be good for our health, particularly our gut health. So I like to just play it safe and sweeten everything with stevia and erythritol, which are natural sweeteners that actually have health benefits, not health risks. Two, all ingredients are backed by peer-reviewed scientific research that you can verify for yourself.

If you go on our website and you check out any of our product pages, you're going to see that we explain why we've chosen each ingredient and we cite all supporting evidence in the footnotes. So you can go look at the research for yourself and verify that we're doing the right thing. Three, all ingredients are also included at clinically effective dosages, which are the exact dosages used in those studies that prove their effectiveness. This is very important because while a molecule might be proven to, let's say, improve your workout performance, not all dosages are going to improve your workout performance. If you take too little, you're not going to see any effects. You have to take the right amounts. And the right

amounts are the amounts proven to be effective in scientific research. And four, there are no proprietary blends, which means you know exactly what you're buying when you buy our supplements. All of our formulations are 100% transparent in terms of ingredients and dosages. So if that sounds interesting to you and you want to check it out, then go to www.legionathletics.com. That's L-E-G-I-O-N athletics.com. And if you like what you see and you want to buy something, use the coupon code podcast, P-O-D-C-A-S-T, and you will save 10% on your order.

Also, if you like what I have to say in my podcast, then I guarantee you'll like my books. I make my living primarily as a writer. So as long as I can keep selling books, then I can keep writing articles over at Muscle for Life and Legion and recording podcasts and videos like this and all that fun stuff. Now I have several books, but the place to start is Bigger Leaner Stronger if you're a guy and Thinner Leaner Stronger if you're a girl. Now these books, they're basically going to teach you everything you need to know about dieting, training, and supplementation to build

muscle, lose fat, and look and feel great without having to give up all the foods you love or live in the gym grinding away at workouts you hate. And you can find my books everywhere. You can buy books online like Amazon, Audible, iBooks, Google Play, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, and so forth. And if you're into audiobooks like me, you can actually get one of my audiobooks for free with a 30-day free trial of Audible.

To do that, go to www.muscleforlife.com forward slash audiobooks. That's muscleforlife.com forward slash audiobooks, and you'll see how to do this. So thanks again for taking the time to listen to my podcast. I hope you enjoy it, and let's get to the show. Hey, it's Mike, and this is an interview that I did with Scott Herman from the incredibly popular YouTube channel, Scott Herman Fitness. And also, he also has a website, which I believe is scotthermanfitness.com, which is full of content and all kinds of good stuff. And it's also very popular. And I think he said he's going to be appearing in a movie soon.

He has some different fitness products coming out. So he's kind of really branching out and doing some cool stuff. But more importantly, what I like about Scott is, one, he's a very cool guy. He's very down to earth. He genuinely just wants to help people. And I see that not only in his, just his demeanor and how he goes about his business now, but going all the way back to his beginning where, you know, YouTube was up and coming. It was getting popular.

He'd always been into fitness and he would get asked a lot of questions. So he figured, you know, I don't know, maybe if I make some videos, people will care. Maybe I can help some people. And, uh, and then people liked his videos. And so he kind of said, well, Hey, this could be something. And then has now built it into this whole thing, which is, you know, kind of similar to my story, but my story is maybe more with the writing. Um, and, and also I like that Scott, he gives good advice. He has a lot of great videos, especially on form, how to do a bunch of exercises correctly. He talks about pretty much anything you'd have a question or you'd want to know, he's probably talked about in a video. And I like his advice.

He knows what he's doing. He has a lot of experience, not just with his own body, but also with working with a lot of people and interacting with a lot of people and seeing what kind of problems that they run into and how to best overcome them. So let's get to the interview. I think you're going to like it. All right. Hey, Scott, thanks for taking the time to do this. I really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks, Mike.

Thanks for having me again. Always a pleasure coming here to chat with you. Yeah, totally. So let's just jump right into it here. So like many people, many fitness folk, you enjoy endurance events, right? Like kind of tough mudder, obstacle course kind of stuff? Yes. And you're getting more and more into that actually. I remember you were talking about you have a whole product.

Is that out yet by the way? The video I did for it? Well, yeah. You were saying you were creating like a whole product on how to train for these events. Yeah, we actually, we, I was part of the Edge of Tomorrow team for Tough Mudder out in Seattle, Washington. Right, right. To promote the movie Edge of Tomorrow. But I was on a team with a bunch of people from like American Ninja Warrior, some Olympic athletes, and we basically ran ran the course but before we went out there you know i wanted to make sure there's a lot of videos that show how to train for a tough mudder

but i feel like they a little on the extreme side training for a tough mudder you know obviously if you want to be top of the pack you got to train pretty hard but just to get your body ready to be able to do better than average it doesn't require you to go to the gym and do all these crazy different exercises. It just requires you to put your body through a lot of the simple basic motions. For example, one of the things I show and talk about in my video, if you want to watch it, just search Scott Herman Tough Mudder. I'll even find the link for you if you want to put it somewhere, Mike. Sure, I'll link it.

The most common injury is people falling down or twisting their ankles from having weak ankles. Think about how often you even move side to side anymore unless you're playing a sport. I grew up playing ice hockey. I remember in the beginning my ankles were just destroyed for probably the first three months. Oh yeah. It's funny because I run outside around town

and I do the side gallop. I always think it's funny when cars drive by and I'm side galloping. I'm like an idiot. You can just take your shirt off, side gallop like i'm like an idiot you know but you can just like take your shirt off side gallop and talk to yourself and they'll just be like all right well this guy and we'll just leave him alone yeah put a bandana on too yeah yeah it's funny my friend yesterday at the gym he's like dude did you the the the road i run down is called 111 it's like a route you know yeah like dude were you running down 111 over the's like a route, you know? Yeah. Like, dude, were you running down

111 over the weekend? I think I saw you. I was me. The only person who runs down that road. Yeah. So busy. But yeah, that video came out. It was pretty cool. You know, got a lot of good hits. And we actually, we, we, the video was made by my friend Ben and his team, and it's all black and white. It's a pretty epic video. Even the music to the video is custom. It's pretty legit, man. I'm going to check it out for sure. I'll link it on the download page for this interview.

Yeah, we even put water all over the floor in my studio to get a cool vibe. It was very cold to lay on, but the video looks awesome. Nice, nice. Yeah, I mean, I'm often asked about, because these events are getting more and more popular, where people will write me and ask, how can they train for the event to, yeah, maybe they're not trying to finish in the top 10 or something like that,

but how can they train for an event without losing a bunch of strength or kind of burning away a bunch of muscle? Because an event without losing a bunch of strength or kind of burning away a bunch of muscle? Because as you said, a lot of the training recommendations out there are pretty extreme. And if you're weightlifting three to five days a week, and if you're doing a lot of heavy compound stuff, you're not going to be able to now add like 10 hours of intense cardio a week without burning yourself out. You know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly. How do you do it? Well, I'm actually, I just got the link for you right here, so I'm going to send that to you. So now you got it. Cool. It's called ultimate guide to Tough Mudder full training program. And if you go into the info section, you know, basically what you're doing is, I think high intensity interval training is a really great way to get your cardio in. I mean, you don't really

want to do a lot of really long distance cardio for Tough Mudder because at the end of the day, you're not running a super long distance. You're running, you know, maybe a mile and then you have an obstacle and then maybe a half mile and then you have an obstacle, and then maybe a half mile, and you have another obstacle. There's all these rest periods. You don't have to think

that you have to have the endurance to be able to run for 13 miles straight. Plus, they count the obstacles as miles as well. The way my program works is you start off with some HIIT training, and you actually are going to do flat and incline, so I have you doing 25 minutes of HIIT training in the beginning, so for those who don't know what HIIT training is, you would do like one minute as fast as you can, and then maybe a slow walk jog for another minute, and you would alternate back and forth each time,

or you can even go even easier and do one minute walk jog and then 30 seconds of running if you're not a strong runner. When programs say to run, they're basically just wanting you to go faster than a walk. So if you're thinking, oh my gosh, I suck at running, just run as fast as you can. And that's your interval of high intensity. Yeah, I mean, the idea is that you're spiking your heart rate. So it's relative, you know, depending on your conditioning, it might not take necessarily a full out sprint to raise it,

to elevate your heart rate to that 150 to whatever, 170 beats per minute range. Yeah, exactly. But even going farther than that, you know, people, because there's a lot of people doing these events that, you know, don't even work out. It's like their intro to it. And so I just think when they see the word run, they go, like, not to call out Erica, but she hates running. I don't like running. I like biking. I don't like running. Not calling her out, but calling her out anyway.

She hates running, you know? Yeah. And we run together all the time on the treadmill, but I don't expect her, for her intense running, you know, I run all the time. So I kind of have to juice the treadmill up to like, you know, 10 to 12, you know, getting close to the max speed to really feel like I'm getting a good run, you know? Yeah.

So everyone's different on that aspect. But you also want to make sure you're doing things on flat surfaces and inclined surfaces. I mean, the best thing to do would be to see what the terrain's like where your Tough Mudder is. So, for example, the one I did in Seattleattle was like very very flat you know you know maybe small hills like in the woods and by small i mean like slight inclines and then declines but the tough mutters that i do in vermont are on the side of the mountain so you know if you're not used to going uphill or running uphill the first thing to give out is your calves and so you need to make sure you're trained for that.

And you can easily do that just by inclining the treadmill. And so for those 25 minutes of HIIT cardio, I do 15 minutes of flat and then 10 minutes of incline. And that's it. That makes sense. And when you're prepping for these types of things, how much cardio are you doing? Are you doing like three or four sessions a week? Are you doing more or less? Yeah, I'm doing it about maybe four max, usually around two to three.

Yeah, I'm the same way. I find that if I start doing – that's just how my body is. If I start doing five, tried five or even six kind of HIIT sessions per week, I start to notice it in the gym. It's just my leg workouts suffer a little bit, especially if I'm in a calorie deficit. Then I really can't do it. Oh, yeah, definitely. It kills me, too. That's why I try to keep it at a minimum. I was getting irritated at the Tough Mudder in Seattle because there was this kid on my team. His name was James. He's an American Ninja Warrior. He's made it to the finale, I think, twice. He's one of the good ones.

The dude is a machine. We had been traveling for two months straight. Was I sick, babe? I thought I was getting a little sick. I was starting to get sick. I was having fevers and whatnot. Here's this kid on my team running hardcore know, running like hardcore the whole time. And I'm like, I'm not going to let this, I mean, we were friends, you know, but I'm like, screw this kid.

So I'm trying to keep up with him the whole time. And he's just taking off. And I'm like, oh, damn it, here we go again. But it was good because it kind of kicked me out of my funk. But man, I was like, wow, I need to get work on my cardio some more. Well, yeah, I mean, I'm sure if he's on that, that's what he does with these crazy obstacles. Because, I mean, obviously, if that's all you were training for, you'd be doing different

things. Your entire training routine would be different if that's really all you're looking for. It's good cardio endurance and good, you know, body weight and muscular endurance where you can just throw your body weight around for, you know, forever. Yeah, but the dude is, like, really thin, and then he flexes his bicep, and it looks like a boulder was inserted into his arm. It's so, like, really, he looks way thinner, you know, than I do. And then he flexes his bicep, and it's just like, whoosh. It's like, holy crap. You know, because they do a lot of work's just like, whoosh. I was like, holy crap.

They do a lot of work, a lot of pull-ups, a lot of sand ladders, a lot of everything. Just training specifically for these types of courses. With that in mind, this workout has two circuits. The circuits are

to prepare your body for doing these obstacles. The first exercise is a monkey bar pull-up. And a lot of people, when they get to the monkey bars, it's like they cringe. And so if you have access to monkey bars, you basically go to the first bar and do a pull-up, go to the next bar, do a pull-up, go to the third bar, do a pull-up. do a pull-up, go to the next bar, do a pull-up, go to the third bar, do a pull-up, you know, because you're, I want you guys to do pull-ups to work your back and build up a body strength,

but also if you're not used to monkey bars, having to let go of the bar and re-grip, that's what gets your forearms tired, you know, and so this workout also has modifiers for all of this, so there might be people who can't even do a pull-up. And so, like, we have modifiers to get people to be able to do, you know, one pull-up and then go to the extreme to do monkey bars. And for the people who don't have access to monkey bars, I have a few modifications that you can do just with a standard pull-up bar to kind of simulate the letting go and re-gripping of when you're doing monkey bars. And then, you know, we have things like a file push-up, and there's modifiers for that as well, like doing a regular push-up or doing it on your knees. And then we have a goblet squat. And then the second circuit,

so this all takes probably about 45 minutes to do. Right. And then the second circuit, you know, I have people doing an army crawl, because army crawling is part, like having to crawl through all these tubes and tunnels that are throughout the course and then I superset

that with like an alternating jumping lunge yeah and then just for the listeners you can find this on YouTube if you just search it's called the name of the video is Ultimate Guide to Tough Mudder Full Training Program, and it's on Scott Herman Fitness' channel. So if you just search that, it'll come up.

And I'll also link it, like I said, on the download page so people can go check this out. But that's great. Yeah, I mean, so it's like don't go crazy with your training. Don't go crazy with your cardio. Focus on high-intensity cardio to build up your cardiovascular capacity without burning your body out. And then do some specific type of routines that are just going to prepare your body for what you have to do. It's kind of like the summary. Exactly.

And we also, at the very end, we go over what to wear because that can really make the Tough Mudder an enjoyable or horrible experience. For example, if you go into the Tough Mudder wearing clunky sneakers, they're going to feel like 30-pound cement blocks after that first mud puddle you jump in. Yeah, that makes sense. Clothing, too. I mean, people like to go to Tough Mudder, and they like to dress up in costumes and whatnot. I saw a group of dudes once go,

like they all had suits on, you know. And, you know, suits aren't that comfortable to begin with, you know, let alone when they're wet, if you happen to be out in rain. I can only imagine what it feels like to wear a suit and have mud caked in all your jacket and your clothes and your shoes and belts. i'm gonna i'm gonna assume they didn't win yeah well nobody wins because it's a team event but oh they didn't

well what they didn't is it i don't even i know exactly you they don't have like placing like oh your first place your second place no i mean they they they do like they have a way to track it to see how fast people complete the event. Yeah, times, right. Because you can then go on to do different types of Mudders where it's more competitive. Right. But Tough Mudder is mainly, they want you to focus on helping each other, working together, and overcoming obstacles, and supporting each other. That's cool. Yeah, it's pretty sweet.

But, yeah, they still obviously have that competitive atmosphere to it. Like, the last one was cool because now that I'm a legionnaire, because I've done, like, six Tough Mudders or four – I don't know how many I've done, like five maybe. Right. But, anyways, so you get a special headband, and there were a few obstacles that were a little more difficult, and you could only do them if you were an Elysian Air.

So that was pretty cool. That's cool. That's fun. All right, cool. So great. So, yeah, I'll link the video. People can go check it out and learn more. But that's a good summary of basically also what I just generally recommend when people ask me about it.

So let's move on to this next point here, which is that, you know, similar to me, you've been, you've been lifting for a long time now. And, you know, I think we've pretty much maxed out our genetic potential. Like if you just look at your fat-free, fat-free mass index, I'm sure you're right up at the top of what you can naturally achieve in terms of muscle growth. I know I am. Yeah. I think at this point, if I do grow, it's going to be areas that can still grow like traps or calves. You know what I mean? It's not exactly like my arm's going to hit 18 inches. Yeah, exactly. And I'm the same way. Like I'll take a little bit more of my calves and a little bit more of my shoulders as you know, as a natural weightlifter, your

shoulders are never, they're always too small. Yeah, well, that's the number one way to figure out when someone's juicing, you know? Yeah, of course, the big massive delts, the massive upper chest. Oh, I'm all natural. I just eat a lot of protein. Yeah, and then the crazy acne everywhere, which is just an allergy to the protein, right? Yeah, the allergenics to protein. That's a protein allergy. The allergenic protein.

That's a protein allergy. So with that being said, what's your motivation at this point? Like what do people – because a lot of people when they're getting into fitness, they're obviously looking to get that type of body they want. But then it's an interesting thing once you pretty much have the body you want. If you're going to, you can kind of have this new, this new problem of, you know, I don't know for you, but even for me, even if I could gain another 10 pounds or 15 pounds of muscle, I actually wouldn't want to, because I don't want to be big and bold. I don't want to look like, you know, a bodybuilder per se. And so what's your motivation? Like what, you know, you're not going to see any more major improvements in your physique or your performance necessarily. I'm sure, you know, just like you,

I just kind of like to stand naked in front of like a tall mirror and look at myself, you know, and if I was not looking good, it wouldn't be a good experience. That's a good way of putting it. You know, it's funny, it's funny you say that because this is something that Erica and I talk about on a weekly basis, not necessarily my gains, but the industry in general and where everything is going. You're my age, right? You're around 30? Yeah, I'm 30. Yeah, so we're both 30. When I was 18, my biggest concerns were how much weight I could

lift and getting big and walking around and flexing my chest and, you know, looking real good. I mean, obviously, to some point, I mean, we're all still that same vein, like 18-year-old. We want to look good. You know, we're a little more mature now. But, you know, one of the most irritating things I see online is when dudes come at me and they're like, oh my God, you've been lifting forever. Why aren't you bigger? You know what I mean? Yeah. And then they send me like a person's name to look up on Google. They're like, this dude's big. And I look at him and he's like the most unnatural person I've ever seen in my life. Yeah. Like, you know, why are you comparing me to

this? But more, more or less, you know, I get irritated because I hate how everyone assumes just because you lift weights, your goal is to become a monster. Like you said, even if you could gain an extra 10 pounds, you wouldn't want to. That's my thing. I reply to people. I'm like, I don't want to be huge like that. If I wanted to be, I would. You'd have to get on drugs. That's the end of the story.

There's a certain type of look. If you wanted to gain 20 pounds of muscle, you're not doing that naturally. There's no way. With your body where it's at right now, it's not going to happen. Yeah, exactly. On top of that, I do a lot of different things. I'm not sure if we talked last time, but my first DVD is out right now on Amazon and it's going to be in Best Buy and Sam's Club and Target real soon. Nice.

But those DVDs, you know, those are – they're really hard, intense workouts, and you can build muscle doing them. But, you know, they require a lot of endurance. And on top of that, you know, you have to do – I'm doing these exercises while talking. of that, I'm doing these exercises while talking. So career-wise, I need to be able to have a good amount of endurance. So getting that big is really kind of productive to my career. And also, too, I got a comment yesterday, and someone's like, do you have a regular 9-to-5 job, or do you only do YouTube like talking to me like YouTube is the easiest thing in the world and I responded I was like no bro I don't have a regular 9 to 5

job I have a 9am to 9pm 7 days a week job yeah I get that asked I get that asked sometimes too so you just do this as like a side thing like are you serious like do you a side what if I didn't have to – I don't sleep or how does that work exactly?

Yeah. You know, and I just – Erica and I decided to do these holiday workout videos. They're all 45 minutes a piece. The videos aren't 45 minutes. The workouts are you can go in and out of the gym in 45 minutes or less and get a hardcore workout done. And we did these ones as full-length videos showing all the sets and all the reps. you can go in and out of the gym in 45 minutes or less and get a hardcore workout done, you know, and we did these ones as full length videos showing all the sets and all the reps.

It takes me like four hours just to edit one of those videos. And I put out like six of them, you know? Yeah. So it takes a lot out of you. Um, anyway, definitely not in that type of work.

It just kind of feels like drudgery. You just sit there, put music and just drone, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. And voiceovers and all that stuff. Yeah. just sit there, put music, and just drone. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. And voiceovers and all that stuff. Yeah.

But, I mean, I guess back to the main question. You know, my main goal right now is focusing on ways to make my business, you know, sustainable for the long run. And a lot of other YouTubers right now, they're just focused on that next video and getting bigger so people can tell them how big they are in the comment section. For me, it's okay. Another 10 years when I'm 40, is this how my life's going to be or am I going to be successful? My website's running itself.

know successful my website's running itself i'm actually i want to get to the point where now i'm actually bringing in other people who are trying to do what i'm doing and teach them how to do this and have them be content providers on my website and right start to kind of really grow my community i mean my community has always been about my website's always been about community but now i want to start focusing on helping those members who are trying to put out quality content get out there. That's kind of my main focus right now. I still want to go to the gym. I'm still working on certain things. Obviously, I'm still lifting heavy.

I'm still keeping the intensity there. Like you said, I'm not going to be 200 pounds. Maybe one day I'll be a solid 180. That would be great. How tall are you? 5'10". Oh, okay. Yeah. 5'10", 200, lean is all natty. Yeah, exactly. It's all natural. I'm 6'2", and I weigh 190 right now, and I'm somewhere between 7% and 8%.

So even me, I don't know if I even naturally could get to 200 and still be this lean. If I could, it would probably take three or four years would be my – two or three years minimum would be my guess. what the natural muscle potential really is because of so many people that, like you said, are out there that look like Arnold did in his prime or bigger, and they lie about their weight. They say they weigh less than they do. You probably know that little game. Or some dude is Arnold's size, 5'10",

and he says he weighs 200 pounds. You're like, well, what Arnold is what? Six foot two 30. And he looked smaller than you. And how does that work exactly? Yeah, exactly. So there's a lot of that going around and, uh, it can, it can mess with people understandably. So yeah, I know where you're coming from on that. Uh, in your, I posted, um, two days ago, uh, my video, it's called Are You Bulking or Just Fat? I talk about lean gains. This kid is so ignorant, and there's so much ignorance around this, kind of going off what you said.

He's like, you're selling false hopes, telling people that they can make lean gains. He's like, why don't you know bulk and cut like every other natural bodybuilder and gain some gain some more muscle you've been lifting for so long and then he and then he left the name of a natural lifter and i went to look at the kid's photos and he's so juiced out of his face it wasn't even funny yeah and my response to this kid i was like you know dude you know you can only gain like, and the misconception is this. I mean, if it's your first year lifting, you're going to gain a good 20, 25 pounds of muscle. Right.

You know? Yeah. I think that's like if you have good genetics, I've seen, I mean, you've probably seen this. I mean, I've worked with a ton of people. I think like just for the listener to qualify that it, depending on your genetics. Yes. I'd say the average probably 15 to 20 pounds. I think if you, if you were like spot on, you don't miss I think if you were spot on, you don't miss your workouts, you don't mess up with your cuts.

A lot of people, they'll sit in a calorie deficit for six months because they're just not very strict with their diet. Then they don't build as much muscle. I think the most you could probably hope for is 25 pounds in your first year. Yeah, well, this like the science behind it. Your second year is like 10 to 12. Your third year is like 5 to 6. And your fourth year and every year after that, you're going to gain like around 4 pounds, 5 pounds, maybe max.

Max, yeah. A muscle a year. And so I responded to this kid. I was like, dude, I was like, you know, you're really misinformed because no matter how fat you get, you're not going to gain more than five pounds of muscle if you're in your fourth plus year of lifting. Yes. You know what I mean? You can gain 80 pounds of fat and you're going to have to lose 75.

Yep. So don't come at me like I need to bulk and then cut are usually the ones that are juicing their faces off because that's how they're able to manipulate the general population. The general population is like, oh, he gained 30 pounds, so of course he's going to keep 20 pounds of muscle. It's kind of like how they think because they don't understand, wow, he gained 30 pounds of fat. That's why he looks like a meatball. In my books, I talk about bulking and cutting and why the traditional type of bulking and cutting, like what you're talking about, where you just eat obscene amounts of food. Go just search for how to bulk and you're going to get a lot of recommendations of you

have 150-pound guys being told to eat 4,000 plus calories a day. And, uh, the, yes, it's, it's, it's indisputable that, that, you know, energy balance affects muscle growth. We all know that if you're in a calorie deficit, you are not going to build as much muscle as a calorie surplus. But what a lot of people miss is a surplus is a point of diminishing returns. It's not like, oh, a slight surplus means that you build a bit more muscle. So a massive surplus must mean you're on steroids. Like, no, that's not how it works. A massive surplus just means massive fat gains. So that you know, that's the kind of the qualification there that if you keep yourself in a slight calorie surplus, yes, you're going to do better. You're going to get a little bit

fatter over time, but you'll be able to gain just as much muscle as fat. Probably a one-to-one ratio would be the normal. Do you agree with that? I agree. Yeah, definitely. It's like you said, it's a very big misconception, you know? Yeah. And so, yeah, great. So in terms of like, so now, I mean, I don't know for you, but for me, it kind of feels like my, the motivation is you've, you've built the body you want, it performs well, and now it almost feels like you get to enjoy it in a sense. Would you agree with that? Yeah, exactly. I mean, like you can change your workouts. I know you get to enjoy it in a sense. Would you agree with that? Yeah, exactly. I mean – Like you can change your workouts.

I know you like to do – sometimes you like to do a lot of like higher intensity type of workouts or some days, some weeks you feel like lifting really heavy. You can play with your diet a bit. Yeah, you know, I feel like too at this point, I mean I can know and also with like the lifestyle and the career and all the traveling i feel like i can bounce back super quick you know if i'm out of my groove for a few weeks it's not like um i still look pretty lean and muscular you know yeah it's not like once you really build that solid foundation if you ever start to kind of waver away from your your routine it's easy to jump back in and still look just as good.

Yep. So, yeah, you can enjoy yourself a bit more and not have to worry as much about, you know, how much you're eating if you're happening to be on some cheat meals or whatnot. Yep. But, I mean, at the end of the day, though, too, I like having my schedule. I like being in the gym for a few hours. Like, I feel better about myself when I'm there. I think it's more of a, how do I say it?

I like to feel accomplished. So if I go to the gym and do a workout and I leave, I feel like I did something, like I accomplished a goal. For example, if I clean my car, I feel good about myself because I did a goal. I did something that I can actually physically see that has been achieved and done. And working out is the same way for me. It makes me feel good. I feel like, okay, even if the workout wasn't the best workout in the world, I still feel so much better and I don't feel stressed out. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, there's a lot of science behind that, even like you have the brain

chemistry of what's going on, but then there's also just the psychology of it, like what you're saying. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. And part of my motivation is just to go train because it feels good. And I train early in the morning, so it's just a great way to start my day. So that's also something to look forward to is that, you know, if you're the listener, you're probably pretty excited getting into it. But in my opinion, I think it stays just as equally, like you get, you're just as hooked on it, you know, in five years in as you were in the first year, because while your body isn't changing like it was in the first year, in the fifth year, you're still feeling – you still get all the benefits of your workouts. You feel good about yourself. Then you have the added benefit of whenever you do see yourself in a mirror, you're like, I look good.

So I think there's a lot to look forward to. It's not like, you know, once you look a certain way, now you just feel like you're wasting your time. You know what I mean? Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So when you were coming up and kind of building your physique, maybe it's not so much of an issue now because of the things we're talking about, but you know, if you hit plateaus, like, you know, we've all experienced that, whether it's strength plateaus or usually, you know, if your strength is plateaued, if you're not adding weight to the bar over time, your physique is usually plateaued as well. What were or what are, if you're still kind of trying to work through things like that, your favorite strategies for keeping things moving in the right direction? keeping things moving in the right direction? For me, when I feel like I'm at a stuck or sticking point,

I always like to go back to my original routines, which is a lot of bird sets and a lot of supersetting because I feel like that's where I'm gaining the most. When I do short rest periods and supersets or a lot of drops, for example, I had to train differently for the holiday workout series because it's just, you know, a lot of volume with short rest periods. Yeah. And so now I'm trying to get back to how I usually train, which is I do like three or four drops on my first set of every exercise. And so like I was doing like a hundred, like a so, like, I was doing, like, 100, like, say I was doing chest. I was doing 100-pound dumbbells for, you know, eight repetitions,

and then I'd drop and grab 80s for eight, and then I'd grab 65s for eight, and then I'd grab, like, 50s for eight, and then I'd get, like, 30s for a set of 15, and I would crush my first set just like that. Right. And so I tried doing that this week, and I was barely, I did 100s for eight and then I did like 65s for eight and I was toast. And so, you know, it sucks because I'm like, damn, I need to get back to, you know, get my endurance and my strength back up because for my body type, I build more muscle and

strength by doing these types of routines, you know? Right. And so, yeah. So for me right now, my goal is to get back to doing that on all my exercises. Like today, I'm doing legs and I'm going to do it on my squats. I'm going to do... That's going to be brutal. Yeah, it's going to suck. Yeah. But, you know, I know and in my head, I know, okay, even if I have to go a little lighter to get all the sets done, it's going to be a good thing because it's going to get my body back to that intensity where I think it feels its best. And I think a lot of lifters, they need to figure out, you know, what kind of routines work best for their bodies and what kind of routines make them feel their best.

Nothing is worse than coming out of the gym and still feeling kind of loose. That bothers me a lot. If I leave the gym and I do an ab workout and I leave the gym and I don't even feel like my abs did anything, I get discouraged. I'm like, damn, it sucks. I understand that. What did I do wrong?

I've tried a lot of different types of routines myself and found that the higher rep stuff, I made some gains, but I made better gains with heavier lifting and saving higher rep stuff for the end of the workouts. Yeah, see? And like I said, everyone is a bit different. So if that's what works for you, that's perfect. Yeah. And speaking of exercises in particular, if you go into any gym and you're going to see people doing all kinds of stuff for, you know, just about every muscle group in the body. Um, and you know, obviously a lot of ridiculous things. So what are some of the common mistakes that you see in terms of exercise choices and muscle groups trained? I mean, I think the most common is with arms, to be honest. I mean, squats and like bench press. You don't see people squatting properly. I rarely see that.

You either see no squats or half squats. Yeah. I mean, as far as exercises in succession, I feel like people screw up their arms the most because they do, like, for example, with biceps, they do a lot of swinging. There's never really a lot of full range of motion. Yeah. to do a lot of swinging. There's never really a lot of full range of motion. I did a post the other day on Facebook because I was doing this hardcore arm routine where I was supersetting biceps and triceps.

I was taking 30-second rest periods, and I was doing 10 reps on every exercise. I was destroying myself. I was on my second superset, and I was at the dumbbell rack. I was curling 40-pound dumbbells, alternating one arm at a time. Then I was doing an overhead extension with 80 pounds standing. I was supersetting that back, forth, back, forth.

This dude comes over, and he starts curling 65s. He's throwing his body into every single curl, and his elbows are going backwards as his arm goes up. So like when you do it like that, you're not really doing much of a curl. You know what I mean? If the dumbbell never goes past the bottom of your chest, that's a super easy curl to do. You know? So anyways, and I was like, whatever. And then he sees me like struggling like i'm

making faces my face is turning red and i'm getting all veiny because i'm pushing myself hard and then i see him like turn around after he's done a set and start talking shit about me to his friend and i just wanted to i just wanted to pick up like the 70 pound dumbbells and go over to him and be like look how easy this is because you don't know how to curl you can pick up the hundreds and do those little fake curls yeah and it's like i get annoyed because i don't i mean whatever i'm a dude you know i don't like people looking at me and first of all you know just you know stay in my face i'm right there i'll talk to you i'll tell you how dumb you are. Sometimes I get irritated when I use lighter weight when I'm doing these supersets because you

get all these bros looking at you, not understanding how to exercise properly, and they think that you're weak because you're curling 40s, when in reality, they couldn't even curl 35s doing the routine that you're doing. Yeah, and that's the case with every exercise. I mean, that's the case with squats, with deadlifts, with bench press, military press, everything. How many half reps do you see on all of those exercises? And, you know, if they were to do it properly, they would probably have to cut their weight. In some cases, I see a lot where it's just ridiculous.

They probably would have to go down 30%, 40% just to do one proper rep. Here's the thing, too, and this is what I don't understand. In my gym, all the squat racks are next to each other, right? Yeah, same. I'm in the middle squat rack, and there's a dude squatting on the right of me and a dude squatting on the left of me. Obviously, everyone looks at each other when they're lifting. It's just you look around or whatever. Growing up, how I learned to train was a lot just from watching the members.

I was working in a gym when I was 14. While I was working and cleaning equipment, I would watch people do exercises. That's how I would learn. you know yeah that's how i would learn and so if you're squatting 225 and the other dude's squatting 225 but yet you're going all the way down to the ground and all the way up with each rep and they're doing these half reps and they look at you doing the same weight but going all the way down don't you think you would be like wow i suck maybe i should go all the way down, don't you think you would be like, wow, I suck. Maybe I should go all the way down. Or even like, maybe I should try that. Like, huh, that looks interesting.

Yeah, like, wow, he's actually whipping just as much as me, but his ass is to the ground. Maybe I should try that. It's probably a better workout. Yeah. You know, this dude is clearly in better shape than I am. He might know what he's doing. You know, like, that's how I thought when I was a kid. I would look at the people who were in the best shape, and I'd be like, okay, I'm going to might know what he's doing. That's how I thought when I was a kid. I would look at the people who were in the best shape,

and I'd be like, okay, I'm going to do what that guy's doing. Or girl, whatever. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, it's true. The weight that you're... She watched me lifting all the time. She's like, I want to be with that guy. Right, babe?

She was attracted to my grunting. Yeah, that's what gets them grunting. That's what gets their attention. That's it. That's a mating call. It works. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's very true.

And what are some of the exercises, specific exercises? Like, for instance, I'll kick it off with exercises that I think are absolutely worthless that a lot of people do, side bends. Why would any – and you usually see a lot of overweight people doing side bends. Why? To get bigger obliques so you can look fatter?

That's an example of an exercise that I just don't understand. Now, which side bends do you mean? Grab a 45-pound plate and then just bend to the side, bend to the side so you can get bigger and bigger obliques, which means you have to stay leaner and leaner or you just look fat. Well, to be honest, it's actually one of my favorite exercises. Do you have small obliques though? Yeah. Well, then that's, I that i the i guess okay i'll qualify that if you have underdeveloped obliques i guess it would make sense but in the majority of people that i've worked with by well i don't have small obliques i mean i have a tight core that's what i thought you meant yeah no no i mean like the oblique muscle itself if it gets too big, like for instance the guy Lazar Angel, whatever his name, that dude has massive obliques.

And if he doesn't stay lean, it would just look ridiculous. It would look like a muffin top. You know what I mean? Yeah, I understand that. Well, I feel like what irritates you is how that exercise is performed as opposed to the exercise itself. Because I get irritated. Or why people are doing it. Like they think that's going to give them a great core.

Yeah. When they're 10% over where they need to be to even have a core. Yeah, exactly. And with that exercise too, I mean the way I teach it, I basically feel every – basically feel the entire exercise in the middle of my core. I'm hitting my oblique. I'm hitting my serratus a bit. It's much more than just rocking back and forth. I keep my body super stiff.

As I dip down to one side, I keep my core flexed. I really feel it in my obliques. I do enjoy the exercise. But when you just see someone grab a 45-pound plate and they just walk back and forth like they're singing a tune in their head, I get irritated with that because then I'm like, what are you even doing? Do you even feel that anywhere? You know what I mean? Yeah.

When your hips are swaying left and right three feet each side, the exercise is pointless, you know? Right. I guess there's also the point of, though, like if you're somebody like you, you're lean, you're muscular, it can work. But for the average person that I see doing side bends, like I said, it's just overweight and they're not getting thinner and it's not going to help. and they're not getting thinner, and it's not going to help. It's like, especially you'll see it with girls, for instance. If a girl is overweight, and she's not going to reduce her body fat percentage, she probably shouldn't lift weights, because it's just going to make her look bigger.

Like, it's not going to make her look better. You know what I mean? I agree. I guess the exercises that irritate me the most that I see people do, not to not talk about obviously form and four-inch motion and stuff I get mostly irritated with the trainers in my gym and the trainers in my gym that are having their 200 pound overweight clients do like a standing overhead tricep extension with like a 10 pound dumbbell I just want to like take that dumbbell and smash their head with it. Yes.

I also hate the trainers that have their clients do squats and a BOSU ball. This lady's 200 pounds overweight. She'd get a better workout if you had her sit down on the ground and stand up 50 times in a row. You know what I mean?

They try to impress their know, impress their client. Ooh, this exercise is making it hard for me to stand up straight. Like, wow, I must be working a lot of muscle here, you know? Yeah. I've seen quite a few studies that show that there's no good use for the BOSU ball in terms of weightlifting. Like, the whole instability thing, it's just been debunked. Yeah. terms of weightlifting like the whole instability thing is it's just been debunked yeah i like to use the bosu ball when i do i do this like um this abdominal superset where i'll lay on the floor

and i'll do 30 floor crunches and then i'll go i'll roll over onto the bosu ball and do 30 crunches that way to get an even deeper like arch my back you know right right yeah no i mean like for standing on the little half ball for squats or getting on there for your chest pressing or whatever. Yeah, exactly. I guess, yeah, I get more irritated with the use of exercises by trainers that make no sense. Yeah, like for instance, hyperextensions.

You have, again again the people i see doing hyper extensions are not in shape at all they never deadlift they never squat so they're not really doing anything like that's if you want a strong back and a strong lower back just deadlift and squat heavy a few times a week and that's or even once a week if you're doing depending on your how your program is set up but hyper extensions ixtensions, I never do hyperextensions. And I know that there are some valid uses of hyperextensions if you're doing rehab, or I know that there are some powerlifting routines that include hyperextensions. But just doing hyperextensions is going to do nothing.

Why? For what? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I agree. If you're working your core, you're getting a lot of lower back work on your exercises like your deadlifts and your squats and whatnot. Oh, this exercise, the glute bridge, the glute raise, I always see trainers show this exercise and just show it the wrong way to do it. And the whole point of that exercise is that when you get to the top of the movement you squeeze your butt as hard as you can to get that hip

hyperextension at the top so you push through you know as well i was in florida doing a photo shoot for bsn and this dude was training these two chicks you know basically just flirting the whole time while he's training them. Yeah, standard. And he's, you know, he's having them do the glute raise, I mean the glute bridge. And he puts the bar in their waist and then he just like tells them how beautiful they are the whole time they're doing it. And it's like they didn't even do one rep. They didn't even get any activation in their butt because they never went to the top of the movement and squeezed and pushed through, you know. Yeah, that's a good point.

It's not necessarily, and that's a good example of where it's not the weight that you're using. It's like, yes, it's good to get stronger and be able to, you see some pretty impressive videos of girls on YouTube where they can do hip thrusts with 225 pounds and do it right, but the point is doing it correct. If that means you start with the bar in the beginning and that's all you can do, then that's where you start. Yeah, I guess when we talk about things like this, it kind of brings a realization of how scary it is for beginners

and people looking for a trainer in a gym. Imagine if you do nothing and you had to go rely on a trainer at your gym right now. If I went to my gym right now and had to get a trainer in a gym. Imagine if you do nothing and you had to go rely on a trainer at your gym right now. If I went to my gym right now and had to get a trainer, I'd probably just not go to the gym. I did that years ago. I tried all different types of things and worked with trainers that would have me do all kinds of ridiculous stuff. I've lived that. I know how that is. That should be a video series. I'm going to wear baggy clothes and then hire trainers to train me. That's a great idea. I'll wear a hidden camera. What are we doing now? How do I properly do a chest press? That actually would be fun. What? Stop halfway? Okay.

Yeah. To protect my shoulders? Oh, okay. Squat two inches down to make sure I don't blow out my knees? All right, yeah, that makes sense. Don't ever deadlift because it's going to split my spine in half. Yeah, okay, okay. That's a good idea. Don't you do that. That's my idea.

Hey, you're the YouTube star, not me. That'd be a good TV show, Undercover Trainer. Ah, that's a good name. That is a good name. Go to different gyms, undercover, and get trained. UndercoverTrainer.com. Oh, somebody has it, but you can get it. It's not a website.

It's just parked. You can get it. That's probably a different website. Yeah, no, it's not actually. It's just a porn site. Yeah, that actually would be a sensible porn name too. Well, cool. I guess one last thing just to my little last peeve is Smith Machine stuff where I used to use a Smith Machine and there's research that shows and you don't even need the research. Just go squat on a Smith Machine and then go squat a free bar, same weight, and you're going to immediately feel the difference. Free weight is just much harder, and research backs that up,

that you're going to make better gains. Most people are doing, if they're going to use a Smith machine, it's going to be chest pressing, shoulder pressing, and squatting. What's a valid use of the Smith machine? I don't know. Unless maybe if you have a rehab type situation, why? If it's easier, I think a general rule in weightlifting, I don't know if you agree, is if it makes it easier to do, it's probably not a good idea.

If it just means less effort, you're like, oh, that's probably not a good idea. Yeah, I feel like... Like if it just means less effort, you're like, oh, that's easier. I'll just do that. You have to be very tactful when you use the Smith machine. I know Erica likes to use the Smith machine for her squats because she does have a bit of pain in her lower back. And so she's able to put her feet a bit further forward to reduce butt wink and lower back pressure. So like...

See, that makes sense. There's a reason for that. Yeah, exactly. There's a reason. And she could also then probably front squat with free weight and be okay then. Yeah, her front squats, she always uses free weights with front squats. Exactly. There's an exercise I actually just did for my video.

It's coming out. It's the last video in my holiday series for glutes and calves. But I use the Smith machine for barbell step-ups. So I have the bench in front of me, and I step back and go all the way to the floor with my knee. Oh, right. And then step up. And then as I step up on the bench, I lift my leg in the air.

So I'm doing one leg at a time, obviously. Right. So it really helps when exercise like that so you can focus on your glutes a bit more. Obviously, you could do it free weights and it'd be a bit harder. But for me, where I was going for more endurance and volume volume it didn't really matter what i used

yeah sometimes i'll use the smith machine for like um a bent over reverse grip row because you can position your body over the bar and maybe just focus more on like that scapula retraction so yeah as long as there's's a reason why you're doing it, you're not using it all the time, the Smith machine can be very helpful. I still don't understand the people who lay down under the Smith machine. And do the leg press into the air. I don't understand.

I just saw someone doing that again this weekend. I'm like, what are you doing? Yeah, why? What is that even? What is going on right now? I'm like, how do you get the bar off and turn it with your foot? Skills, skills. Yeah, no, I can definitely see that. I guess, uh, my, my thing on the Smith machine is don't replace your, your big compound lifts with Smith, Smith machine versions of it.

Don't, you know, I used to only train on the Smith machine when I, years ago, or do most of my barbell pressing and my squatting on the Smith machine. And when I went from the Smith to the, just got off the Smith, went to, you know, free weight bench and stuff, I was amazed at how much weaker. I think I was like, I had to take 50 pounds off the bar just because I, you know, just didn't have all the little muscles and all the, all the, that stabilize on the free weight bench. For instance, it was, it was, I was pretty shocked. And also if you're going to use the Smith machine, you can't not count the weight of the bar because it weighs nothing.

True. You know? Yeah. Yeah, it does. You know, and people use, I think a lot of guys use the Smith machine so they can put like, Yes, plates. A bunch of plates on, like I was watching this guy shoulder press,

and I think the Smith machine is one of the worst exercises, or one of the worst things you can use for your shoulder press, because I think it gives a false impression of proper form, if you're not using it properly, you know? Yeah. And so this guy was shoulder pressing like two 45s on each side. And he was going down like to maybe his nose. So he wasn't even going down to his chest.

Yeah. And he had a spotter. And every time he brought the weight down, he could never do one rep by himself. His spotter had to jump in and grab his elbows. I'm like, dude could never do one rep by himself. His partner had to jump in and grab his elbows. I'm like, dude, just do one rep by yourself. Yeah, and get off the Smith. Just go stand and try with 25s. He probably would struggle doing it with an overhead press with 25s, doing it properly.

Yeah, and people, you know, they might think, some of the listeners might think that, you know, Mike is kind of just talking smack. But we talk about these things because we know what it's going to do for you. It's more cautionary. Don't be these people because it really actually impairs your – it's going to get in the way of making gains. It really is. And in the beginning, yeah, you're new and pretty much anything you do is going to build muscle and strength. But once those

newbie gains are gone, uh, you really need to know what you're doing and you really need to avoid these mistakes because these are the major mistakes that just stick people on a rut. And it's of course showing up and moving your body and doing exercises better than not. But these people that we're talking about are the people that look the same year after year. They're lifting more or less the same weights year after year. You know, it can be demotivating. I agree. Yeah.

All right, cool. So last but not least, you have a new website coming out soon, right? It might be up by the time this is live, but can you just tell us quickly about, I know you're pretty excited about it. So, you know, how, what's, what's the deal? Yeah, we've been working on this thing for so long, probably the last six months, just trying to get everything done and perfect. We took, you're able to now build a profile and interact with friends and other community members through forums or through the profiles itself, similar to how any other social media platform works. You can friend request people. You have a board, photos.

You can upload videos. And then fitness-wise, you have progress charts you can fill in. You have, like, a section where you can upload your max lifts. You have a place where you can put all your measurements and all that good stuff. And then on top of that, by going into the forum section, incorporate information, workout routines, articles, recipes, and whatnot from members into the website. This is going to be my way of, you know, we talked a little bit earlier. My main goal now is to start to kind of, you know, bring other people up. So this is my way now of giving people a chance to have a voice.

And, you know, just like Facebook, you have people who can follow your page, you have people who can be your friend, and every single page on the site that has your content on it also has, like, social media share buttons. So by uploading content to the website and then sharing that page, people are able to come back and see all of your content. And the way the videos work on my website, you're inserting your YouTube URL.

You know what I mean? So not only are people watching your videos, but they're also subscribing to your channel through my site because they can see your videos right there. They know how to get to it. Right. And what I'm also doing is I'm allowing people to put information and more in-depth routines, exercises, and exclusive content in the Platinum section on my website. So affiliates can actually sell the Platinum membership, which is $7.99, gives you access to the entire site, the meal plan service, and all that. And it's going to allow them to actually earn some income while they're trying to build their brand. I mean, YouTube is great and all that. And it's going to allow them to actually earn some income while they're trying to build their brand.

I mean, YouTube is great and all, but for people who are just starting out, I mean, you're probably making like maybe a dollar per video a month. You know what I mean? Like it's not that lucrative like it used to be. And so I'm thinking, okay, these people are trying to build businesses, they're trying to get their name out there.

How can I utilize my massive following and how can I utilize all the opportunities that I've had to start to help these people who are in it, you know, for the right reasons? Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. For the average user, you know, if you're looking for great information or for tips or if you need help, that's what my forums are for, and they're free to use. Go in the forum section. You can post questions. You can chat with other community members. You can read previous posts. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Great. And this is scotthermanfitness.com, right? Yep. This is scotthermanfitness.com. Cool. Yeah. So for the listeners, definitely go check it out.

And then once the site changes, it'll be muscularstrength.com. So if you happen to go there and it says muscularstrength.com, you're in the right place. Yeah, it'll forward you, obviously. It'll take you there. Yep. Awesome, cool. Well, thanks a lot for taking the time. Thanks again, man.

This is awesome. I know that these are all just good topics that are going to really complement what the listeners have learned just in reading the time. Thanks again, man. This is awesome. I know that these are all just good topics that are going to really complement what the listeners have learned just in reading the books. Yeah, of course, man. It's my pleasure to be here and chat with you and catch up and fill in your community on what's going on. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Cool. Thanks again and have a great day and we'll definitely stay in touch so maybe we can figure out something to do together. Yeah, that'd be great day and we'll definitely stay in touch too. Maybe we can figure out something to do together. That'd be great, bro. Cool, man. Hey, it's Mike again. Hope you liked the podcast. If you did, go ahead and subscribe. I put out new episodes every week or two where I talk about all kinds of things related to health and fitness and general wellness. Also head over to my website at www.muscleforlife.com,

where you'll find not only past episodes of the podcast, but you'll also find a bunch of different articles that I've written. I release a new one almost every day, actually. I release kind of like four to six new articles a week. And you can also find my books and everything else that I'm involved in over at muscleforlife.com. All right. Thanks again. Bye.