My Dad Wrote A Porno - My Dad Wrote A History Hit

Episode Date: March 13, 2022

To celebrate Comic Relief (and hopefully raise some money) Jamie, Alice and James team-up with historian Dan Snow (from the podcast 'History Hit') to chat all things sex and history. Expect slow thrusting, Henry The Eighth sexual slander and more filth than you can shake a bread dildo at.You have the power to do something incredible this Red Nose Day. Whether it’s a little or a lot, the money you donate will help tackle poverty, take action against violence and bring an end to discrimination. Give now at comicrelief.com/podcastmashup, alternatively Text PODCAST to 70210 to give £10 today.To donate £10 text the word PODCAST to 70210. Texts cost your donation amount plus your standard network message charge and 100% of your donation will go to Comic Relief, a registered charity. You must be 16 or over and please ask the bill-payer’s permission. For full terms and conditions visit comicrelief.com/podcastmashup Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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your new policy online in a matter of minutes. Zensurance. Mind your business. Hello! In aid of comic relief, my dad wrote a porno as teamed up with Dan Snow's history hit for a very special podcast mashup. This Red Nose Day, donations will help people here in the UK and around the world live free from poverty, violence, discrimination and support them with their mental health. This includes helping people right now in Ukraine and the mass displacement of people in many parts of the world. Head to comicrelief.com slash podcast mashup to give what you can now. Enjoy the show.

Hello and welcome to a very special podcast mashup between my dad wrote a porno and Dan Snow's history hit, all in aid of comic relief. Hi guys, this is fun. Hey, how's it going? Hi Dan Snow. This is, I mean, an unusual combination. I'm sure you'll agree. I'm not sure it is. In fact, I think the Venn diagram of middle-aged, pornographically-minded authors and fans of military history is pretty complete. So don't worry, I think we might be among friends. How has it taken us so long? Well, I mean, I've been a big fan for years, guys.

I don't know, I've been waiting for the call. Dan, we're looking at you. You seem to be in a hotel room. Where are you right now? What's going on? Yeah, I wish I was there in person with you guys. Although when I did meet up with you guys in person, I did feel a little bit average the following day. So maybe it's best that we're conducting this um you know remotely you all got

drunk without me yeah what were you drinking it was christmas it was christmas it was christmas and i can't make any further comment we drank all of christmas dan was on the baby sham he was loving it yeah we all had a christmas party together and we all got on like a house on fire so we thought we should do a little mash-up and here we are it's amazing it's one of those bizarrely crap christmas party ideas it's actually come true it's amazing yeah i know that thing i'll definitely email you mate yeah yeah and it's actually happening i can't believe it i bet you were like there's no way they'll remember and then bing monday morning cool so you did kind of verbally promise this one um but you're not at

home what what are you up to i'm in cape town i'm on my way to antarctica um i'm going to wow yeah i'm going this huge research vessel into the roughest waters on planet Earth. Stormy seas. And we're going to look for a shipwreck, a famous shipwreck, Endurance. Shackleton's shipwreck, which sank in the Antarctic and he had to take the small boats

on an epic journey of survival back to civilisation. And we're going to try and find it on the seabed, 3,000 metres down. Wow. That is incredible. And this is your warm-up for that this this is my this is my everest actually that that will be easy for the perverts who listen to our podcast and may not be familiar with yours dan although why would they not it's huge what's history hit all about well it's basically the good thing about history is everything that ever happened to anyone who's

ever lived on this planet so we go all the way back but there's plenty of content playing content the problem with you is you rely on the pen you rely on the pen of the overworld so foolish i mean you know so i go look i saw those guys it looks like hard work to me so i can go stone age to nuclear age digital age and we just we talk about history my favorite episodes are kind of ones where we take a big thing going on in the world at the moment like ukraine israel palestine boris johnson being an absolute idiot and we kind of look at the historical context for those things we kind of how did that all come to be but you know we go we talk about sex in pompeii we talk about you know goodness knows everything everything's ever happened so history in its widest sense wow so we really are like the highbrow and the lowbrow here

because we just talk about terrible porn um yeah the explanation the other way is actually harder so for dan's listeners tuning into this for listeners that haven't heard of porno exactly what do you do well my dad when he was a builder from northern ireland when he retired he thought that he would be like el james and write an erotic novel that would sell millions and he'd become a huge global success um he sold four ebooks but one of the people that he sent it to was me and because it was the most unintentionally hilarious book i'd ever read um i just had to share it with my mates two of whom are here alice and james and so we basically just read a chapter of my dad's book every week and critique it comment on it try and give it some context you know

elevate the material if we can and the jokes kind of become on us because dad has become one of the most successful pornographic writers in history writers you could say writers at all exactly yeah so we've kind of created a monster but but a beautiful monster. No, you have. I mean, you're one of the biggest podcasts in the world. You're right, you are part of podcast history. So it's great to have you on History It because you have made history on that podcast. It's absolutely-

Oh, look at that. Oh my God, Dan will be talking about us one day on his podcast about the history of podcasts. So with this mashup, we thought it would be a good idea to mix sex and history and talk about the history of pornography sex throughout throughout time um one thing we wanted to talk to you about is because obviously rocky thinks he was the first person to ever write an erotic novel and for context that's rocky flintstone

for your flintstone that's my dad's pen name but but is that the case i mean how far back does pornography go is it and is it a fairly new phenomenon or does it go back to the cavemen? James is asking for a friend. Asking for a friend. You will be surprised to learn that people have been obsessed with sex since the beginning of time. In fact, no. Yeah, no, this is, this is, it's like huge if true, is that people, human beings, and that's what's so wonderful about history. In a way, some things have changed so dramatically. Obviously our technology, some of our kind of ideas about the world and religion. But amazingly, so much of what drives us hasn't changed. You know, our passion to reproduce, to have sex, to, you know, enjoy the touch of another human, sculpting, carving in the past, you find pornography. You find erotica, I believe is the posh word to describe it in the British Museum.

That's the posh word, yeah. Erotica, yeah. We do skirt away from that word because it doesn't fit for Dad, but yes. Apologies. We're going to cancel that. So in kind of ye olde bus stops and bus shelters, you'll find ye olde pornography stuffed you know layers and layers into the peat even before ye olde and before days of yore actually way back to ancient rome which is you know the beginning of most people's kind of they were doing it yeah we're doing it then if

you go to pompeii and herculaneum the two cities engulfed by vesuvius nearly 2000 years ago there is just erotica all over those streets. Like, it's bonkers. There's just penises everywhere. I mean, there are. What? See, it's funny that you're laughing because I actually think that this was known. Like, it's just, there are just penises all over the shop. So were they all just, like, 12-year-old boys in maths class?

Like, what's the deal? They were just drawing dicks everywhere over everything that they own. Well, that's a good point, actually. I mean, historians debate this kind of stuff all the time. It makes sense. And we're glad to join the debate. Yeah, some of it's kind of pure art. Some it's kind of you know around iconography and and hope it fertility a lot of issues around fertility and people wanting to have babies and

and people wanting to have yeah having sex so so but there are a lot quite a lot of brothels in pompeii that that people discovered and they show um women in a variety of sexual positions i think you'd describe it as. I think Rocky Flintstone would obviously, as the expert, be able to probably call them all out and describe them in detail. But you also get murals with information about services, like specific services that people would perform, prostitutes would perform sexual assault. Really?

Yeah, clients. And clients' appraisal of women as well. So clients talking about particular women. There's one famous bit of graffiti that says thrust slowly, which I, you know, it's definitely a take. I think that's, I mean, it's advice that has stood the test of time. You would hear that now. Trust me.

Trust me. It does ring a bell. All right. And then there's another one. My favourite is Euplia was here with 2,000 beautiful men. And she apparently, we're told in the list of prices, sucks. It costs five, effectively, of the Roman currency, like five quid, basically, for her to suck you off.

So we know that. So good old Euplia. Her name has become immortalised. Yeah. So do you think there was something more respectable about drawing penises and everything than, as Jamie says, her name has become immortalized yeah so do you think there was something more respectable about drawing penises and everything than as jamie says now when you see it on a bathroom door or a textbook yeah i think we do right i think that because we're so weird about sex we think of

ourselves as really really kind of liberated but also we're really weird about sex so it's really funny and interesting that your podcast is like one of the biggest podcasts in the world but like why not everyone is obsessed and fascinated by sex and wants to talk about it and listen to other people talk like i find it very emancipating listening to you guys talking about it and you know it's not it's not shame it's not like so and yet everyone's like oh what a surprise oh goodness me like why is that a surprise that's mainly us dan to be fair we're like i was gonna say our byline for the podcast should be you think they're really liberated about sex, but they're actually just really weird about it.

I think that probably does sum it up. We do try and be sex positive and open-minded, but throw three prudes in a room and, you know, you don't know what's going to happen. We have been called by the Americans, the Ron, Harry and Hermione of pornography. That's brutal. It really is.

I think the Romans are kind of famous for their orgies and stuff. How much of that has been overstated throughout time or is it just one big as dad would say fuck fest one it's one big fuck fest you know the answer is it's very hard to be sure um a lot of historians and chroniclers at the time like they do today use sex and like sexual deviance as a way of kind of criticizing and trying to destroy someone's legacy there are obviously reliable accounts of the imperial palace people having orgies there but you know there were those like in france was a big court case a couple years ago about that guy from the world bank you know he was in like there seemed like quite a lively orgy scene among the elite in france you know i'm reading that as my like doing my kids nappies at five in the morning

thinking something's something's just gone wrong here like i'm living in a new forest surrounded by dirty nappies that's a fascinating point though about early sex shaming that's that's kind of a mad thought that's that's crazy we think of that as such a contemporary phenomenon but that's always happened oh yeah definitely so tiberius the roman emperor was said by his uh a biographer he used to be kind of young virile soldier like hero of Roman Empire he got a bit old and a bit sort of fat and greedy and he used to

apparently get young boys to swim in his swimming pool at Capri and nibble on his genitals and that was a sign like by his biographer like it could be true but it also just could be

them saying look he became a sort of depraved old man yeah the bit that bothers me is nibble the nibbling yeah no there's no suggestion

it was anymore it's just kind of like a little sort of fishy like kiss fishy kiss there's no suggestion it was any more. It's just kind of like a little sort of fishy-like kiss. Fishy kiss? There's one for Rocky. He gave him a fishy kiss. And so, yeah, it's tied up with politics.

Sex is about politics and control and power. And I guess it always is. Well, which is a bit like Belinda Blinked, you know. It's a business tool in many ways to sell some pots and pans. So there's some sort of equivalent. So I'm just trying to find some equivalent with Belinda Blink. James is right. Certainly when we started reading these books,

there were lots of discussions around the protagonist, Belinda Blumenthal, who is the sales director of Steals, Pots and Pans. For those that listen and for those that don't, this just sounds like weird white noise. But, you know, she shags her way around the world. she uses her sexuality as a tool it's something she loves it's something she really enjoys she's in control of it and lots of people were not sure how to feel about that so yeah i think it's it's just something that we're still talking about now which kind of blows my mind yeah it's really difficult with history and this belinda is a great example of this but it's like we're told that people like cast on the great who by the way the horse thing is a complete and

utter myth and a like disgraceful misogyny but she was sexually active like any other monarch she had lovers usually monogamous series of favorites of lovers or of a like a famous french aristocrat in the 18th century and it was said they were like these women like sexually voracious and what we don't know is whether they were like unusually sexually active and happy with that and having a perfectly normal and lovely time or whether that is just like trying to sort of delegitimize them take away their power or their influence like it's very hard for us to know that's what makes it so fascinating is you kind of you're trying to read these sources you're trying to work out nearly all written by men like what are the men trying to do with that

Belinda is just the latest of many high-profile women who've been written about what is Rocky trying to do with that I mean we ask ourselves that constantly what was he trying to do and on the other side of that was Elizabeth I's reputation of being the virgin queen to kind of give her more power if being seen as sexually promiscuous or active was to diminish a woman was this virginal depiction of the queen to elevate her status yeah that's really difficult i think she was trying to say first of all i'm marrying england i am faithful only to england like so so i'm it's not some also the idea of like a foreign prince because you often marry foreigners so she's like i'm not going to marry some french guy right my sister married a spanish prince like philip um i'm going to remain chaste and pure

for england yeah i'm not going to be kind of yeah it's like the idea that in a court full of men that she remains like untouchable like it's super weird and difficult when you think about it but it's that was definitely part of her mystique and was it true like was she a virgin do you think or do we not know well we don't know i think she i don't we don't know she definitely formed really close male friendships to glimpses younger she had favorites and she i mean she may have done a bit of shagging but um sadly we don't know i love that we think that dan will know like nobody knows but dan knows dan's like yeah she shagged she shagged she shagged unlike her dad of course who famously got married uh six times and people often think henry was a

great shagger in fact i think that possibly the opposite is true i think he had problems in the sex department in fact yeah there's a brilliant story anne boleyn at trial at such a weird moment anne boleyn's brother was on trial for um having sex with his sister incest right and many of the best and the brightest in the land were gathered to watch this trial and and like henry's lawyer went up to him said don't read this out to everyone, but this is apparently something that Anne told you. And he looked down and went, what? Henry VIII can't get it up and is crap in bed.

I'm paraphrasing. The entire room just burst out laughing. Like it was just a great moment. And that's something that actually happened during the trial. That's utterly, utterly humiliating. So he struggled to have sex, I think. But many of his forebears didn't, obviously. Edward IV, the dad of the Prince of the Tower,

was an absolute shagger. It was said that he... Top shagger. I mean, top shagger. Top shagger. Hashtag top lad. Apparently, one of the reasons that the people of London let him back in was because the women of London

wanted to jump back in his bed when he thought he was involved in a civil war. What services to shagging allowed him back in? Basically, basically. I mean, he was a beautiful young man, but he really let himself go. I mean, he went for it. Fair play.

He gorged on everything life had to offer. I love the way Dan talks about these people like they're old mates. He's like, God, yeah, he was a great lad. Beautiful, beautiful. Really let himself go. But what a top guy. But this is why historians basically gossip about dead people right and so just like you know when we run out of people to gossip about

ourselves we can draw on everyone in the past it's that's what makes life so enjoyable i'll tell you what alexander great what a weirdo so um dan's just down the pub with all his mates and then you go down you're like oh they're all in his head he's bought pints for five different people no one's sat there all right let's get rid of the bullying because that's really getting a little close to the bone guys he ironically edward the fourth the shagger kicked his cousin henry the sixth off the throne henry the sixth was poor thing one of our sort of less alpha kings and he and his wife had to be joined by a sex coach they had trouble

procreating for years and they had to get some advice in i think and and both i think you know both of them would have been virgins and it would have been quite complicated i actually think my dad says that his dad had to consult a doctor when he got married because he didn't know how to have sex and i'm sure it's going to be over the moon that you've said that sorry dad but we're living in a kind of time now which is post rocky flintstone so everybody has the manual they need to work out how to do it so it's fine people won't encounter those problems public service um what were like the early examples of contraception like condoms and things like that when when did they kind of start being introduced people have used the most really difficult condoms over the years i mean lamb intestines

oh wow oils paper i'd go the oiled paper over lamb intestines i mean that's not going anywhere no i think i'd go lamb intestines i think it's funny other lads are all like i think you might get the feels more with the uh that's very interesting maybe because i'm a vegetarian i don't know that's absolutely it maybe maybe the three of us just all went. I don't know. That's it. That's absolutely it. Maybe, maybe. The three of us just all went, ooh, I don't know about that. Piece of April. Putrid meat is what you would do for the feel. I guess for his pleasure. Yeah, fine. You're adding the putrid there. I mean, intestines are never the sweetest smelling of meats.

We're having too much of a nice time we should pause for a second this is a great sex education slash history class two lessons which aren't usually a hybrid um but we are here for a very special reason yes this mashup episode is specially for comic relief other shows involved include the football ramble the guilty feminist homo sapiens off menu films to be buried with and loads and loads of other great podcasts. So you have the power to do something incredible this Red Nose Day, whether it's a little or a lot. The money you donate will help tackle poverty,

take action against violence, and bring an end to discrimination. Give now at comicrelief.com slash podcast mashup or text podcast to 70210 to give £10 today. Text costs your donation amount plus your standard network message charge. And 100% of your donation will go to Comic Relief, a registered charity. You must be 16 or over and please ask the bill payers permission. For full terms and conditions, visit comicrelief.com forward slash podcast mashup.

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insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit zinsurance.com today and buy your policy online in just a few minutes. Zinsurance, mind your business. We have a character in the books called the Duchess, the Duchess of Epsom, actually. Actually, first question, is there a Duchess of Epsom? I don't think there is, no. Thank God, because there'd be a huge defamation suit coming. She, in her country pile, she has a room dedicated full of dildos,

different types, different materials, different sizes, anything you can imagine. it's a confection we were interested to know what the history is of dildos kind of what maybe some of the earliest dildos were i think she has a wooden one were there wooden dildos in the past things like that go on dan talk to us about dildos yay well yeah i rarely talk about anything else really um you know it's quite because we find quite a few phalluses penis shaped things um if we found them from the stone age although then again penises look like lots of other things as well so there is a temptation to like find a little blob of something from the stone age and go there's two people shagging it's like i mean it's got lumps

and bumps but i mean i guess it could be so we're a bit it's also really difficult to kind of work it out but there have been dildos that found through history amazingly lots of people seem to make dildos out of bread oh what yeah i know stale bread fresh bread i think the key thing to remember folks is before today we were a materially poor culture like most most people didn't have much stuff so you just had to use whatever came to hand right danny you sure it wasn't just a baguette yeah well yes these archaeologists found a baguette went filth absolute filth clearly a huge dildo yeah huge dildo yeah and so dildos are very common and we've and women would make their own dildos there's an amazing one i once saw in the 18th century it looks like a egg whisk

uh and it was it was sort of a vibrator that's like when you get mechanical vibration introduced as well they'd whisk themselves off wow that sounds like there would probably be a lot of fatalities from the early vibrator do you mean the end was like a whisk or like the mechanism

the mechanism you know when you're fine fine okay we're on the same page good okay it's a workout and a great time for yourself I was thinking I guess it's trial and error but for the the error involved in the early ones oh wow so again this idea that we're living in our most progressive time perhaps not because perhaps the idea of female masturbation is now more of a taboo than it was in the past yes i think there've been times when it's been very too i mean the

the 19th century i know the victorians come in for a hard time and they're they're on a whole it was both a time of prudishness but also you know lots of sexuality lots of pornography loads of victorian porn but um they like florence nightingale writes extensively about trying to avoid masturbating i mean it was like a was like a fucking sun up to sun down. It was her personal Everest. Wow. Yeah, it's like Jerry Maguire. It is a struggle that you will never, ever know.

And so she never succumbed to it? Well, no, I think she did. That's the problem. Oh, she did? And then she hates herself and beats herself up about it. Oh, God. Oh, Flo. Flo, just give it up., God. Oh, Flo. Flo, just, yeah.

It's tough. Give it up, yeah. Tough times. It's fine. And you mentioned Victorian pornography. Is that just like, oh, look at that ankle. Look at that. Is it a real close-up of an ankle bone?

Do you know what? Actually, this is niche content, but I actually really like Victorian pornography because it's just like, it's just brilliant. It's brilliant photographs. Dan, we're recording. We're recording, Dan. Just so you know.

So it's just photographs of, like, brilliantly human-looking photographs. Dan, we're recording. We're recording, Dan. Just so you know. Is this live yet? So it's just photographs of like brilliantly human looking people. They haven't worked out that they need to like, it's not like modern pornography where it's not what most of us actually look like and the things we do. It's just like, Victorian pornography is like amusingly normal looking people, just like shagging or like going for a bicycle ride and like with nice scenery in a little photographer's studio

or like lifting weights or doing some flower arranging. And it's like, you know, they've got loads of body hair and they look like, you know, so it's kind of, it's great. I really like it. I just love the idea of flower arranging being a big part of the setup. I'm less concerned about the bodies. I'm more like, yeah, that's fun for me. Like, oh yeah, we know the classic, the plumber came around to fix a sink.

But what about like, I'm arranging my peonies, so to speak. Alice is Googling as we speak. that's fun for me like oh yeah we know we know the classic the plumber came around to fix a sink but what about like i'm arranging my peonies so alice is googling as we speak yeah i'm like i think this could make a comeback you'll be amazing how many of my guests when i'm talking to them remotely end up googling while i speak it's uh this is not my first time i've heard you just see that glazed expression alice isn't actually googling she's just setting up her only fans account which is just her and flowers. I feel like if you're into it, other people are into it. That's all I'm saying.

Alice, if you think about it, they were using studios because the camera's quite unwieldy and the lighting rig and everything. So we're using studios where you do your family portraits. So all that kind of Victoriana that we're used to, like a nice, pleasant countryside scene or flowers or the little pedestal with the little, you know, hanging basket off it that you'd get when your great-great-grandma

or whatever went for her family. They just chucked the porn in afterwards, used the same set, and that's why you get these kind of really weird scenes, yeah. OK, this is already the most educational episode we've ever done, and I imagine the least you've ever done, or...? This is top content. Have you noticed that since James started Googling Victorian porn, he hasn't spoken?

Dan, just give me five more minutes. Can you turn your camera back on, James? And also, we can't say... Can you turn your camera back on, bud? I'm just beginning to think that Rocky's just hiding loads of Easter eggs in the books that we're not getting. He's a historian, basically. Yeah, essentially. I actually...

Folks, I've been listening to your podcast for years. I completely agree. My dad is a real history historian, basically. Yeah, essentially. I actually, folks, I've been listening to your podcast for years. I completely agree. My dad is a real history buff, actually, because he went to the same school as the Duke of Wellington. Do you mean at the same time? I think they missed by like two or three years. He was in upper sixth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure, sure.

He was a lowly year seven, Alice. He couldn't possibly approach him. Yeah, he does pepper the books with references that honestly sometimes go over our heads. You see, I giggle at the parts that you guys don't even know is funny. So you're getting double giggle from me. That's the thing. When you guys are like the Siege of Mafeking, you skip over to the next funny bit.

I'm still roaring about that. Can we talk about that specifically? Because I still am not really sure what the relief of Mafeking is. I might just give us a bit of context of how it appeared in the books, if that's okay. So this happens in Book 2 if that's okay. So, this happens in book two, chapter nine to be exact, everybody.

Bella shook her head as her clitoris became wet. Sir James increased the pressure and his fingers slid through her nub. Bella drank her Chardonnay

and saw Belinda return braless from the ladies. Talk about the relief of Maffer King, thought Bella. What's he on about, Dan? As ever, I'm not absolutely sure I know exactly what he's talking about. But the reference to Mather King, it's always called the Reef Government, Mather King.

Basically, it was a siege in the Boer War in about 1900. It went on for 217 days. It had everything the Brits love. Quite a few toffs, a hopeless stand against the odds. They were surrounded by the Boers, who are these white South Africans, these descendants of Dutch settlers in South Africa. The Brits and the Boers were fighting it out for control of South Africa. And it was very celebrated because Baden-Powell, you might have heard of. Oh, yeah. The Scouts. The Scouts, yeah. He was in charge and and so sort of plucky heroism

against the odds the brits kind of held out and they were then relieved and because the war was going really particularly bad for the brits at this time it was it was bigged up they gave out those victoria crosses and it was sort of made a big thing off and so for a certain generation mafeking became a kind of byword for plucky brit underdog success. And so for someone schooled in that kind of 1950s, 60s, 70s, everyone would have heard about that. It would have been absolute. And then the Boy Scouts were founded partly as a result a few years later. But it's interesting now no one's ever heard of it anymore, right?

So this is porn written by a certain generation for a certain generation, I would suggest. But I think you guys already knew that. So we're just the wrong people to be reading it, is what you're saying. It makes perfect sense for somebody in their 60s guys your podcast is listened to unironically by people in their 60s no wonder Emma Thompson loved it so much yeah I don't know if you know that but yeah this is that's just that's just how prose works for that generation I'm so glad we've cleared that up once and for all so it's a byword for being an underdog basically

yeah well actually dan while we're on this train of thought there's some other stuff um rocky's reference that we wanted to kind of get your take on a few other excerpts in the book there's a very famous one about the titanic oh yeah uh jamie if you'd be so kind you want me to read it um okay this is in book one, chapter 12. Her nipples hardened with her feeling of freedom, and they were now as large as the three-inch rivets which had held the hull of the fateful Titanic together. I love that line. It marries maritime archaeology, maritime history,

together with nipples, which is something that I've, you know, it's so daring, it's so daring. Algorithmically, Dan, that was created for you, really, that line. Literally, it's like the people invented the TikTok algorithm, obviously the best algorithm in the world, have just fed that into my feed, basically. They know me so well. Also, there's a lively debate, actually, about Titanic's rivets,

which I will just, if you've got time, I can share this with you. Oh, OK. We've got time. He's jumped headlong. Is this a subreddit? OK, fine. This is, oh, yeah, it is. In fact, headlong. Is this a subreddit? Okay, fine. This is, okay.

In fact, yeah, close your mentions about a week after this one because they're going to come. People are going to go nuts. Basically, there's a lively debate about whether the rivets were of a high enough quality and whether the Titanic

would have survived if they'd used steel rivets in the bow section, for example, and whether they were like in a hurry and they used lower quality iron rivets. And guess what? Lower quality iron rivets, they had too much rivets in the bow section, for example, and whether they were like in a hurry and they used lower quality iron rivets. And guess what? Lower quality iron rivets, they had too much slag in them. Way too much slag.

Oh, man. Wouldn't punch. Watch out. They had too much slag in them. And so they were a bit weaker. And so the thought is that they've looked at Titanic on the seabed and she smashed into the iceberg, which carved that huge gash in the hull.

And some of the steel, some of the plates hull. And some of the plates obviously then loosened because these rivets kind of popped out. Now, if you say this to people in Northern Ireland, in Belfast, you need to get on a plane and get out of there very, very quickly. But there is a body of evidence that suggests when she was being built in Belfast, they did use these iron rivets too much slag. Wow. Jess, when she was being built in Belfast, they did use these iron rivets too much slag. So really what Dad's saying is that her nipples were hard, but not maximum hardness. Or is it a political statement? Because he's from Northern Ireland.

So is he saying there is this discussion, there is this debate? And so is he saying, no, they were rock hard because the rivets that were made were rock hard. Don't come for the rivets. I think that's exactly what he's doing. And as the expression goes in Northern Ireland, the Titanic was fine when it left here. Some Englishman drove it into an iceberg. And I think your dad's come down hard on that side. But I think his next draft, he might want to replace that with like depleted uranium rivets or something like that.

Anti-tank missile reference there. But you know, it's up to him. I'll be honest, Dan, when he tries to use a contemporary reference or tries to bring it up to date, it doesn't go well. But yeah, we can definitely suggest something. I mean, this is making me really think

that the joke is on us, guys. Because if there are all these legitimate reasons why dad has put these metaphors... References. References in his books, books then fuck he is a genius do you worry that having dan here is the first time we've ever fully understood your dad well we thought that we'd destroy dan's podcast he's destroying our podcast this has backfired horribly you have no idea how often i act as a translator between my friends and their parents. I understand him so much more

now Dan thank you. It's an obscure reference to World War One aviation but we think yeah let's let's move on. I think what he means by that is I love you. Yeah exactly. Well we were laughing well we were laughing like very early in the book when um dad wrote that somebody's breasts fell freely like pomegranates, which we found hilarious. And the pomegranate has kind of become the unofficial symbol of the Belinda Blink books. But pomegranates actually are quite a well-known symbol for sexuality and fertility, right, throughout history. Yes, they are, absolutely.

And you think of Persephone and the pomegranates when she's carried off by Hades down to the underworld and she eats pomegranates. But we've got so many slang terms for breasts your dad you know he's in a very rich tradition and I there's amazing uh social media tiktok account run by a woman called Kate Lister who's a brilliant academic and she the other day put through a poster video with a list of things that breasts have been called um we've got the 18th century love hillocks the cheetahs call them duckies duckies i like that the one i quite like is cupid's kettle drums oh wow that's amazing really unpleasant 1970s lung warts oh my god why would they call them something that is you know infected and yeah it's wrong who on earth was calling them long warts somebody that wasn't

getting anywhere near them um 1960s top bollocks okay yeah makes sense and another one from this just before the french revolution the apple dumpling shop oh that's nice that's very nice i think that's nice it's better than top bollocks, for sure. I'm trying to think what else Rocky's called them over the years. Fan of tits, of course. Yeah, the money tits. He did once describe someone's breasts as falling like the Lehman Brothers, which I quite enjoyed.

Oh, yes. That was quite a good one for Dad. We presume rapidly, dramatically. Unexpectedly. Bringing down the global financial system. Yep. The power of the breath. I like the way your dad is obsessed with the Norse gods. Yes.

In a big way. I think they're more sex positive. I think the idea is, unlike the Christians, who we can all agree have got an issue around sex, you know, the Virgin Mary and all this. Oh, yeah. Norse gods is his other nearest pantheon of gods that he's comfortable with. He's like, yeah, we'll have that. It's only about a thousand years old.

I can borrow that one. And I guess he'd say quite sex positive and transgressive and naughty. Which would suit his canon. Yeah. I was intrigued when you said that obviously you're going to the Antarctica to recover a shipwreck. When you said that obviously you're going to the Antarctica to recover a shipwreck, it kind of jogged my memory that my dad did use another famous shipwreck in one of the books. And I just want to know if this is possible.

He said that in the Steel Spots and Pans office, one of the brushed antique brass knobs on the door was beautiful. It had beautiful gold threading around the bulb bit and was stunning to touch and see. Rumours had long circulated that it had been recovered from the Mary Rose, but who knew for real? I mean, the Mary Rose is a Tudor warship. I think we managed to discern that from when we did that episode. So the Mary Rose was Henry VIII's favourite warship

and it sank famously. They left favourite warship, and it sank. Famously, they left the gun ports open, and it sank in 1545, and then rose up from the seabed in 1982. So again, for your dad's generation, that would have been an absolutely amazing event. It was one of the most televised events at that point, and for someone of his age,

it would be this amazing moment watching that ship come up from the seabed. Just out of interest, though, because that's just the doorknob on her office at steals pops and pans how much do you think that object would be worth off the merry rose yeah given its fame oh that's a very tough question i i mean no one's ever you don't really buy stuff off mirrors it's all been sort of you know protected and so i don't know how you'd end up it It's like saying if you could sell a part of the crown jewels, what they're worth. I don't really know.

But I think it would be worth a brass drum. I mean, look, brass corrodes in seawater, as we all know. So it's very unlikely to have survived on the bottom of the stone for 400 years. OK. But it is conceivable that it was buried in mud when it sank. So let's just go with that. And then it's conceivable the museum sold it off

because they were short of cash and they somehow got around the regulations. And so I think it would go for 100 grand, 200 grand. I mean, it'd be very, very valuable. Wow. To then use it as a working door handle feels like a bit of a disgrace, really, doesn't it? As you say, it should be in a glass cabinet. Do you know what?

That is such a good point. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, legend has it, it came with the Mary Rose. Well, if it did, it's one of the most precious items in British history, you absolute maniacs. What are you doing? He does say no one knew for real. I think we know for real.

It can't have happened. You may know this about Jamie's dad, Dan, but he's often covering his back. So he will make these sweeping claims and then put in a little caveat that's like, but, you know, it was myth. So you can't have me for it in case the estate of the mary rose comes exactly he obviously felt safe having the brand name mary rose isn't that he normally avoids those like the plague mary rose's public domain it's more than 70 years after the death of the yes right so he's fine yeah well dan this has been so much fun and very enlightening i have to say we've learned a lot um as to be expected you've probably not learned anything i've learned i've had a

master class in broadcasting and podcasting here guys what can i say i don't doubt it i've learned from three absolute legends if this doesn't spawn a kind of mini series of porno hit or you know my dad wrote a history book i think that would be a real shame um but likely we'll just see you drunk at christmas party won't we i hope so but if your dad wants to write viking warrior porn i can be historical consultant no problem at all you've got one subscriber enjoy the antarctica dan hope it all goes well i hope you've got your stash of victorian pornography to keep you company good i've printed it out i'd run out of color on my printer but that's fine not a problem and um i'm gonna come watch you guys at show. So thank you very much for having me

on, man. It's so great to see you guys. Yeah, come to the Palladium. And as this is your last chance, Dan, anything else you want to say about sex? I've just told you every single thing I know about sex and sex and history. I'm out. A fire, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the I'm-too-small-for-this mindset hold you back from protecting yourself. Zinsurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit zinsurance.com today and buy your policy online in just a few minutes. Zinsurance. Mind your business. Picture this. You're at a picnic with pals, and bam, you suddenly feel unwell. But going to the clinic? not the ideal weekend plan.

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