My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 104 - Garden Party

Episode Date: January 18, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the case of Susan Kuhnhausen and the Order of the Solar Temple cult.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Center yourself. Yes, Syria. Are you centered? I feel like I might be. Are you in the center? I'm kind of, I'm a little sideways. A little wonky? I might be a little wanky. That's because this is my favorite murder. My favorite murder. The podcast with the consistently worst opening in the history of podcasts. You know. We invite you in slowly with awkwardness.

Right. By making you want to turn it off. But, but you stick around. Because you're like, maybe this could get worse. That's, that's Karen Kilgariff. That, that sigh is Karen Kilgariff. And that fake sigh is Georgia Hartstark. Hi. Hi, we're here to talk to you about true crime and all the things that we have now associated with true crime. Which is everything. Which pretty much anything. Anything, everything, all of it. The thing I'm loving now is just consistent pictures of old razor blade holes in people's bathroom cabinets. Like 2018 is all about shit hidden in walls. Yes. And especially if you have

an old timey medicine cabinet, go check yours. I bet there's so many people listening like, what are you fucking talking about? Yeah. Go downstairs. I don't know if you're upstairs. I don't know why your bathroom's downstairs. Wait, first of all, why are you upstairs? Go downstairs. Someone's in their car right now. They don't know. So go upstairs. Go upstairs. To the double decker bus. You know. The double decker bus driver. How you do it. Go upstairs. Go upstairs to your mansion. Go into the bathroom. Why don't you have a bathroom upstairs? Yeah, that's so weird. Everyone does. And why don't you? Do you and then open your cabinet? And is there a thing that says razors can go in here or whatever the fucking old timey

font? Yes. Is there a little old fashioned hole that seems haunted and could have a bloody remnants of somebody in it? So much DNA. So much vintage DNA. Ooh, that would be fun. And just maybe you stare at it for a couple hours, then you start to pull at it. Then you write a book of short stories about every person who's put a razor into that fucking hole. First it's an old guy, then it's a young guy, and it's a lady shaving her legs. Yes. Can we get a woman? This is why is the patriarch you take over your short book of short stories? No, for forget women shave way more than men. So much more. We're just all of our bodies. Face and legs. All of it. Listen, when you get to be 30 something, you're going to shave your

face too. Don't worry about it. One of my favorite tweets is our friend Morgan Murphy, hilarious comedian Morgan Murphy. She has my favorite tweet of all time, which is, your girlfriend shaves her toes. Holy shit. Yeah, just a little drop of hardcore information. That's good. Sorry. It's the truth. Like an Italian. Just get it done real quick. You don't need 240 characters to get the good stuff going. Amen. You know, I had to take the like close-up mirror down from my wall in the bathroom, the like look at this mirror real close at all the hairs and stuff. I had to take it down. I save that special occasion hotel rooms only. Good call. But then you're like, what is wrong with me? I know. Then you look at your face and you're

like, why isn't anyone told me? But when I was growing up, we got those for Christmas one year. My sister and I, when I was like 14 and she was 16. With the lights? Yes. Because your mom was like girls. She, it was someone else that gave them to us. Holy shit. And we, I used to sit at my desk in my room with the lights out and that thing on it, like switching it. You know how it'd be like day, evening, night or whatever. Evening and night or the same. But not on this mirror. It was like one was green, one was bright, one was like really pinky. What if you're after like, what if you're at like a late afternoon tonight party? Like that evening is going to come and you're going to need to look your best. You're going to have to, yeah, you have to adjust your eyebrow plucking to the

light or more men will never love you and you'll never find a husband. Never find a man. You will not land a man at this garden party unless you pluck your chin correctly. Your Jessica McClintock dress can only get you so far and that fucking updo, that permed updo. You better get your list of topics to talk about in small talk conversations and you better shave your upper lip or thread it or do something. Something. Don't forget about those nose hairs because that's a reality. Girl. Here's the worst one. Oh no. Just everyone's all, I'll just catch a random black neck hair. Yeah, yeah, I got the chin. I got the chin covered. You got the neck. You take the neck, I'll take the chin. Neck might be like the next stage up. Since I'm like a whole generation older than you.

Question. Is it going up or down? I feel like it might be going down. Oh no. No, it's horrible. You're in for a treat. I'm in for the night. That's why I do not leave my house. I can't trust my neck. I don't know what's coming out of there ever. Anyway. Oh yeah, you got the mirror. I would stare into it and pluck my eyebrows and look at my pores for so long that my dad would just keep walking by my bedroom door going. He would make a noise like it was a bug light and I was like a praying mantis caught on a bug light. He's like, look at the bug light. You're not helping dad. Stop it. You're not helping. They never helped. No, why would they? They want you to suffer so you don't get an ego. Well, it fucking worked. And like reach great heights or whatever.

You know why? Because then you're going to fall further. You're welcome, 14-year-old Karen. See, it doesn't hurt as bad when you don't climb as high. When you stumble upwards, it's better than when you climb upwards. That's right. Right? Or soar upwards. Right. That takes so much ever. That's for the rich. That's for like people who don't have friends or like time for friends. Yeah. Time for pets. Yeah, that's for people who are like, oh, I'm a concert clarinetist. Well, congratulations. Yeah. Go do that then by yourself. I can't have a dog arc had I just, I'm never home. I'm working all hours and it's like, well, then you're living your life wrong. Yeah. You need a pet. Bring it with you. Bring it to the symphony with you. Yeah.

Let's teach it to fucking play a horn instrument. Wait, speaking of which, can I tell you sidebar that I took my dogs to the dog beach. Yeah, which is like, I'm so jealous. I can't take my cats to the dog beach. You shouldn't. You shouldn't. They would not have a good time. But although it is one big cat box, really. I don't think that would happen everywhere we go. But because it had rained so crazy down here, there was so much garbage and seaweed on the beach. Frank was like in heaven. It was like a mini beach garbage dump. What was in there? Well, there was one whole huge fish. No way. Just a big dead fish. That's so cool. Then there was lots of what looked, it was pieces of plastic that looked like they were from legs, pantyhose containers, like the eggs. Where you're

like, why are there so many plastic eggs around? Then there was like a basically a like Kia futon frame. There's a little kid in the surf that was pushing out a huge, like it what looked like the gnarled base of an oak tree. And he was just, it was like, where's his mom or dad? They were like, oh, good a project. You go do that in the end right in the riptide. One word. Pathogens. Just everywhere. One small cut on your foot. One tiny cut. Do you watch house? Go watch house. They'll never trace that disease. I know. All those beautiful young doctors on the beach. Oh, my God. And there was like oil. It was really dirty. And I took my feet, I took my shoes off. And then I was like, no, Karen, I didn't think about it until like 45 minutes in. And I was like,

oh, I'm there's no way I'm not going to have some crazy mystery rash. This this podcast is going to change to my favorite staff infection. Like tonight, get your fucking feet off my couch. Everything's covered. I keep everything in surgical booties until I'm clear two weeks. Please do. This is what happens when you leave the house. But what would your favorite staff infection be? Oh, because there's a lot. There's so many good ones. I really do love foreign bodies, bodies. I like a good jump on a rusty nail. Oh, I did that once in sixth grade. I don't like that. It was intense. But I think I did it because I was at a slumber party that I didn't want to be at. It was it was very intensely Christian. I was like, I've got to get out of here.

And the next thing I knew I was like jumping in a field and I landed on a rusty nail. I was like, well, my mom, unless we can break into your parents liquor cabinet and just pour some alcohol on this or wherever, I think I need to be driven away from here. Whatever the medical procedure is, it's it's not going to take place. It's not it's not praying over my foot. No, it's not going to be with your weird Christian records. Got to go. Love the Lord. See you at school. But I can't handle this. Um, I'm watching a show on Netflix. You might be watching that everyone loves called the end of the fucking world. No. Do you heard it? No. Oh, it's so good. What is it? Okay, it's like, okay, it's like if you took, um, Harold and Maude, yes, anti

Wes Anderson, anti like angry at Wes Anderson, like anti, like cute and like kitschy in that way. But like no shot is centered. Nothing is okay. Maybe just Wes Anderson, but like dark Wes Anderson. Okay, got it. Okay. And then like, uh, it's just like it's dark, but like cute and cool. And it's like these, it's really good. And there's, it's murdery. And there's these two young kids in it. And they're like, he looks like Harold from Harold and Maude and she's super adorable. And they, maybe they murder someone. We don't know. Like it's a really good show. I love it. Should I read you the thing instead of telling you sure about it in my own special way? I feel like what you just did was very clear. Listen, if I say it's good, it's probably good. I mean, I feel like

you're batting, I'd say eight for 10. Sure. Where'd I get? Where'd I go wrong? I couldn't give you 10 out of 10. I just couldn't. Well, that's fair enough. Because I'm again, I want you to climb. I want things to be hard. I want you to earn it. If you compliment someone without a little bit of a negativity in it, they're just going to not try anymore. That's right. They're going to get a big head and you know, that's the worst thing that can happen. Right. And then they're going to show up at a fucking garden party with hairs coming out of everywhere. Oh, look at me. I'm so pretty. I have a beard. No, this is wrong. What's happening? You're never going to find a husband. You know, when you're dressed like a McClintock dress, you will be loved. We'll grow

all together. Oh, sure. You can wear that dress all you want. But the floral is not going to land you a man. It's not the florals. No, it's the clear chin. It's a smooth chin and a feminine chin. So shut up. Shut it. What are we doing? I don't know. What do you have to talk about? Okay. Okay. Anything? Yeah, I do. Two weeks ago, the last in-person upstairs, what do we call this pot? Pot. That's when it's us. Not live. I talked about The Beast of Jersey. I was making conversation with somebody and they were like, what was your last show about? They had never listened to the podcast. They were just trying to be polite. And I went into a synopsis of what The Beast of Jersey was all about. And as I was saying it, I was like, stop talking now. You were like, oh, they were

being polite. They don't want to know about the fucking leather mask. This person wore plastic weird rabies that they raped at anyone. They raped everyone they could get by themselves. Which is why I think people listen to this podcast and why you and I are doing it is that we realize we can't talk to anyone about it. That's exactly right. We all have to meet here if you want to have these. These are not dinner conversations to meet your friend's new girlfriend. Okay. This is like the podcast of I don't get the face of someone who isn't interested when I tell them about this. Isn't it cool? But usually they kill inside their own race and they didn't kill inside their own race anymore and he did that. That's amazing. Nobody wants to know about that. That's

in real life. People are like, anyhow. Did you hear about the bomb? Right. So anyway. But as some of you know, I did talk about the kind of cows because the islands we were talking about were Jersey and Guernsey. And so then I began to hold forth like a cow expert. You are. Because I am a C plus cow expert. That's how much I got it right. And I'm very angry and ashamed because I grew up amidst cows. I had to smell their shit every day. It was all hay and cows and now Felfa and nonstop dairy. So the fact that I got this wrong is both shaming and then also I'm not sure why I keep I mean proximity doesn't equal fucking knowledge knowledge. Very true. Here we go. Are you ready? Always. This is from Gail. Okay, Gail. You're up. She gets right into it. You're

absolutely right about the Jersey and Guernsey cattle breeds coming from the islands in the English Channel, but a little not right about. So nice. A little not right. You're just a little not right. Which is so accurate about what those cows look like. Jerseys are the smaller brown ones and their babies look like little deer. They are the cutest. Even the groans are cute. Guernseys are brown and white cows and they aren't as common. The black and white cows are Holsteins. That's what I was talking about. Okay. Both jerseys and Guernseys are known for their rich and flavorful milk that is high in protein and butter fat. Although the milk that you buy from the store has been standardized in its nutrient composition by removing fat and adding it back

in the government. So the fact content is most important for making other dairy products besides milk. Jerseys are particularly popular because even though they are small and don't make as much milk as larger cows, they are much more efficient at making milk. Think of them as the Priuses of dairy cattle. And I will from now on. I'm a professor of dairy and animals. Oh my god. Hell yes. So I was pretty tickled to hear you guys talk about cows while I was simultaneously listening to your podcast and scrambling to edit PowerPoints about cows before the semester starts. It's like her episode. It was like made for her. She's like, listen, I hate serial rapists. Yeah. But here's my chance to shine. But still I found something I could love here.

And that's what we try to do. This is what it's all about. And then she said, cheers to all and especially the pets, Gail. And then in parentheses, it says, which in my case is a woman scientist name. I don't know what that means. Oh, that's great. So thank you, Gail. Also thank you, Sarah, Emma, Allie and everyone who tweeted us this correction. We got emails from Sarah, Emma and Allie also that were all equally as informative about cows. That's nice. So just so everybody knows, jerseys are the prettiest cows. Guernsey's are like jerseys less pretty sister. Oh, now we're going to get a male from cows. I'm going for it. Holsteins are black and white cows, like from an old country folk painting. And then the ones I grew up with were heifers, which are the orange

and white ones. I believe they are. Or maybe that's I have never known so much about cows in my life. And isn't it fun? Like you can now take this straight to a dinner party. Yeah. Instead of talking about murder, you go straight into listing cows and their colors. You know how everyone loves to talk about. You just wait for a nice pause in the conversation. Did you know the ones that look like deer are jerseys? They're heifers. And then you got fuck the government. Not the government. May I have that salt and pepper, please? Can I say correct to correct nobody really, but just to read this. Hi, ladies. And then in parentheses says Steven animals. Oh, and this is called some Montessori insight about George's dirty feet. Oh, here we go.

Oh, really nice stuff. And then on episode one or two, you mentioned attending Montessori schools and Georgia recalls having a feet washing bucket as a Montessori teacher. I was cackling in my car. This dirty feet scenario is totally not a fever dream. The goal of Montessori schools is to teach independence, life skills and appreciation of nature. You are lucky enough to go to get to go outside and explore and learn, allowing those feet to get nasty. Bless your teacher for allowing the children to wash their feet. Water. So fun. We only have a hand washing station. I'm not nice enough to let my little ones take their shoes off outside. Anyways, thanks for all you do. Stay sexy. Wash those feet. Don't get murdered, Jamie. Well, Jamie, though, but I bet that's

smart because you don't want like a child staff infection. Don't step on a fucking rusty nail. Do not they'll jump on it just to get out of school. Oh, definitely. Lazy. Anyhow. Oh, I guess this last one, this is just a fun email. Yeah. Steven pulled for us. Look and listen, David Fincher. Yeah. The subject line from Gina. Hi, ladies and honorary lady, Steven Raymore. Steven's triumphantly raising his fists. So good. Was watching seven for the first time. First time. Such a good movie. You've had 29 years. I was watching seven for the first time and noticed this and then she pulled a screen cap and it's Morgan Freeman standing in front of broad pit and the line he's saying to him is

I want you to look and I want you to listen. Okay. And then she back in the email says just saying, has anyone ever seen Karen and Georgia in the same room as Morgan? Karen and Morgan certainly share that deep distinguished voice. Oh my God. Lots of love plus some sloth, greed, gluttony, et cetera. Gina. That's everyone. So goddamn funny. If you haven't seen seven murderinos, young murderinos, go watch seven. Oh my God. If you haven't seen seven creepy, this conversation ends here. Yeah. Pause it. Pause it. Go check your go downstairs and check your medicine cabinet. That's right. Go back upstairs. Go back upstairs to your, why is your TV upstairs in your bathrooms downstairs? It seems inconvenient. Yeah.

Because a basement bathroom and an attic TV room is just hard for the family. Is your house only a basement and an attic? What does that mean? Maybe you're a Dr. Seuss character. Do you have a hat where the machines that clean the house come out of it? Yeah. You might want to check your hat. Check your fucking hat. Check your hat. And then check the fucking government, man. Yeah. Tell them about cows and inform them. Who goes first this week? I think it's you, right? Did I go? Well, then we had a live episode. Oh yeah. But didn't we say we were doing, we're not counting? I think I'm first this week. I was counting on going first this week. Good because I had to do it last week. Yeah. I find it to be a burden. Technically. Technically. Yeah. Technically.

You think a bird, you think, I think going first is better because then I can fucking chill as shit. Oh. Drink my sparkling wine. Oh. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. So, but I can't go first every week because I would suck. Yeah, that would suck. It does suck. It's like you kind of have to get everything up off the ground. Right. All right. You set a tone. Yeah. I'm not trying to intimidate you, but you really control the mood right now. Just kidding. Fuck. Oh no. The thing too is what if, what if this is your murder? What if my murder is your murder and I go get her first? Then you don't have to go. I can't wait. Then I just sit back and go like, yes, girl, tell it. Yeah. Yeah. You forgot this part. Let me tell you this thing. Okay. Beautiful fucking thing.

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quickly runs dry. As the air supply for the trapped children dwindles, a pair of unlikely heroes emerges. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcast. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. Okay, now we can start. All right, so I found this story and decided to do it and then real found out that it is also an I survived up as she's in an I survived episode. Yes. So this is special for you. Thank you. So I watched the I survived episode. It was great, but also I got a lot like most of my information from a an article in the Willamette week by Beth Slavik from 2016. So cool. Thank you, Beth. Good job. Yay. We're proud of you. Okay, so this is the story of Susan Kuhnhausen. Okay. Any bells yet? No. I feel like I'm like reading to the master.

Can I just do a quick brag? Yeah. My sister said last weekend, I think it was she was like, there's an I survived on that's amazing. Right now you need to watch it. A woman who escaped a serial killer and I wrote back, does she have red hair and a green sweater? I've seen it already. And my sister goes, Oh, that was creepy. Because I know, yeah, honestly, I've seen them all five times. I've seen maybe two. Okay. You're the queen of this. So I felt a little, but I think that this is, you know, do you mind if I will listen to you and guess the whole time? Yeah, I'll bring in when I think I know. That's what this podcast is. Yeah, girl. This podcast isn't Be Quiet. Well, I tell you about the story. Please be quiet. Interrupt the shit out of me with incorrect guesses.

This is the one time I've been interrupting you for two years straight. Yeah. But this is the one time we were like, could you please be quiet? This isn't an I survived. This is actually really and wait, literally two years straight today. That's right. It's our two year fucking anniversary. Oh my God. Of existing of existing and having real fucking personalities lives. Having an interest that we shared that we thought this could possibly be interesting first day of the rest of our lives. Insanely dude, two years high five Georgia hard star. Thank you. You too, Karen. If this this fucking podcast would be going to Montessori, no, it wouldn't. That's too young, right? It's too young. Okay. But unless we're both working.

Daycare, working moms. Yeah. Listen, we get Steven. Steven, will you be this podcast? And Steven's the podcast nanny. Yeah, I would think so. Steven, thank you. Yeah, I'll take care of you. Okay. You would be a manny, right? Oh, right, right, right, right, right. Steven, you came in what a year and a half, I mean, like six months in my, my, I guess two years. Of course he knows what's, there's a heart in his calendar. Oh yeah. It's like a little like in my locker. It's like my, my two year anniversary is in May. Okay. Yeah. Well, well, we're going to say right now that we'll get you something for your two year anniversary and then we won't then we'll make up for it and it'll be even better. Yes. That's exactly all I can hope for. That's all

you've ever wanted. That's how we do right now. Exactly. You know how we do. I love it. Yeah. Okay. All right. Susan Kuhnhausen. Okay. Here we go. On the evening of Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 51 year old emergency room nurse of nearly 30 years, Susan Kuhnhausen ended her shift at Providence Portland Medical Center and headed to her appointment at Perfect Look Hair Salon in East Burnside Street, on East Burnside Street, Portland. I guess you know what that is. You already know, don't you? No, no, no, I don't. I know that area though, the Burnside District. Oh, okay. So Perfect Look. It's our new hair salon. It's so good. It's so good. Susan had moved to Oregon in the early 80s. She settled in Portland and she was well liked by

everyone who knew her. Of course, everyone says she's outgoing, vivacious. She's this amazing nurse. She's loved by everyone. In 1988, when she was in her early 30s, Susan, along with a friend and her mom's help placed a singles ad in the Willamette Week, which is what this fucking, I just realized, this is what this article is from. Oh, yeah. I didn't put it together. That's awesome. That's amazing. That's a very popular, circular app in Portland. I think it still exists. Yeah. Looking for, and so she placed a singles ad, which is how you used to find love. It's like before. Could you imagine? No. It's just like, oh, it's all like letters and numbers and like, I'm a Taurus, S, F, L, looking for D. I think my mom put one of those in like Irvine weekly or

whatever in the 80s. Did she catch any good fish? I'm sure she didn't. Jesus. The kind of she dated were horrendous. Were they sickening? No, they were just like single dads in the 80s were creeps. Yes. You know what I mean? A lot of transition lenses, a lot of mustaches. Yeah. All right. This isn't about me. Okay. Or Janet. It's always about Janet. It's always about Janet. Okay. So she wrote looking for, quote, someone different. And then about herself, she wrote overweight, but not over life, which I love so much. There's your, there's like a, that's a necklace instead of like, live, laugh, love, overweight, but not over life, not over life. And then you kick a stranger in the dick. He's reading that. Yeah. It's by your necklace.

Can you know the website reductrists? Like they're fucking headlines make me laugh so hard in their articles. It's like, it's like the onion for women. Yes. They have like a merch now and one of their, they have a shirt that has an arrow and it's up to the arrow goes to your face and it says, my vagina's up here. They had one after the golden globes that said, zero quotes from men about the Me Too movement. They're so funny. It's so good. Okay. Someone different overweight, but not over life seeks SM who wants more out of a relationship than just quote slender. Fucking girl. Yes. Wow. And this is in the late 80s when none of these attitudes were allowed. No, you go to fucking jazz or size and you, you diet and reduce or you're nothing and no one.

It's blamey or bust everybody. It was a hard time. But then meanwhile, we were being tricked into ingesting fake diet food that was actually filled with sugar. So like, we all thought New York seltzer was diet. And we're like, this is so delicious. You drink like seven of them and it's just like drinking code. Right. And then you scream at your kids. Okay. 39 year old Mike Coon Hansen responded and about him, Susan said, quote, he had a nice voice. I was impressed. He wanted to talk about deeper things, which I wrote red flag, you know, yeah, he doesn't. He goes straight to poetry. Get out of there. Deeper things. Deeper than what? Than what? Okay. Their first day was in February 1988. Mike was adopted as a newborn in 1948, grew up in Portland.

He told Susan he saw combat in Vietnam, but military records list him as a switchboard operator. Oh, within the year, they drove to Reno to get married. So she marries astute Mike Coon Hansen. Okay. It quickly soured. She said, quote, it wasn't long after a second. Wait a second. Don't give it away for the listeners at home. I won't. I think I just say, give me a give me like a keyword. She finds him in the house. No. Okay. But close. I think you do know you're just not there yet. Okay. We got to get you a little further. And then you're like, yes. Okay. It wasn't very long after we got married that there was no more hiking, no more going out. Yeah, because people say they're into shit, that they're not into shit. And then in a year,

they're sick of you, which is why you need to start a relationship saying, I like to sit at home and binge watch shit with my cats and fucking get takeout. Yeah. What's past like topical weekend interest? Yeah. That's the reality of the relationship. Nobody likes to hike. No, it's total dating bullshit. It's stupid. It's really dumb. It's for single, desperate, thirsty people. Literally. Literally thirsty people. Okay. Within a few years of the wedding, Mike got a new job as a janitorial supervisor for Oregon Entertainment, the parent company of fantasy adult video. So basically he started working for an adult video company as the janitor, which has to be like a bomber job. Yeah. Like about

you don't come home from that fucking kicking your heels and your wife. Even if it's all paper products and like guys and ties, there's still a level of light scum, I would say on everything that he that was his job just to mop off. Totally. Literally and figuratively. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So he starts slowly revealing to her in the early years that he'd never really been happy. His life philosophy, she says was life's a shit sandwich and every day you take another bite until you die. Fucking thanks Garfield. Jesus Christ. This is why everyone needs to go to therapy and get pharmaceuticals. Yes. Well, not everyone, but this guy clearly. I mean, it's just so sorry, that's all of life to you. Yeah. Like you're not gonna, you have that attitude and you're not

going to do anything to change it. Like take a chill pill. And by chill pill, I mean a fucking Zola lithium. Anything. Something. Help yourself. Okay. Mike chain smoked. He also pounded diet coax, which is like, is that why are you being a dick about it? He was very controlling. He would hound Susan about her plans when she went out and he kept track of her spending and complained about all her purchases, which is like, shut up. I need to go to perfect look every two weeks or you're going to tell me I look like shit. Yes, exactly. Also, she is an emergency room nurse. Yeah, she's pulling down. That is a union wage. She's doing very well. Yeah. Your fantasy adult fucking video store is not the same wage.

Probably not. So yeah, the spending discussion. Anyway, let's talk about marriage. Okay. 17 years into their marriage, Susan is like, fuck this shit. She said I cared about him, but I didn't want to live with him anymore. I wanted to be happy again. So in September, 2005, she kicks him the fuck out of the house. And he moves into his father's home, but Susan never changes the locks or the alarm code, which was their anniversary. Well, why would she? It's her husband, right? She thinks she knows and has a relationship with right. Okay. So she wasn't surprised after her hair appointment, she gets home, she's still in her scrubs. It's six, 37 PM. She lives in Montevilla neighborhood,

comes home, finds a note by the microwave from Mike, because they're still talking and stuff, saying, Sue, I haven't been sleeping, had to get away, went to the beach. He said he'd see here on Friday or Saturday. Love me. He's not, he says. So Susan disarms the alarm, goes through the house to the front, grabs her mail, and she comes back inside and looks through the house to her bedroom and sees that it's really fucking dark in her bedroom. Normally, and she's like, Oh, I thought I'd open the drapes that morning. That's like something is off. She knew it immediately in the in the second and insect part of her brain. Well, there's, what is scarier than that when you're standing in your house and there's something off. There's

something that you didn't do that, that is like, I always have a lamp. There's a one lamp I never turned off. And if that, if that were off, if I came home and that were off, I would be like, well, I would think I got my electricity turned off, which happens constantly. But my thing is like, if my cats aren't, if one of the cats aren't greeting me, there's something wrong in the house. Yes. You know, like they're scared. There's, there's a reason. If my dogs aren't there barking at the window like I'm the mailman, I think they're both dead. Like I picture, oh, they ate, they ate chemicals, they ate whatever, like I go through a whole thing of trying to go into acceptance about losing both dogs at the same time. And then Georgia like walk up like, what do you want? I was sleeping.

The other day, Vince and I came home and the whole house smelled like cigarettes. Like someone had just smoked a cigarette or was smoking a cigarette in the house. It was really fucking creepy. And we like went room to room and looked everywhere. And what was, did you have a window open? No, I don't know what it was. It was probably someone in the hallway or something. Wait, I think we've talked about this already. But did I retell you about my friends who live in New York and they, they are the producers of Eugene Merman's comedy festival. And they put a camera in their house because they, in their apartment, they kept noticing little things moved. And, and so finally, they put this a camera in their house that would switch on if

there was movement. And so the guy was at work, it switches on. Their landlord just is going into their house walking around. And she's, it's one of the creepiest videos they showed it to me. And she's just really slowly walking around and looking at everything. Oh my God. And she like, at one point walks upstairs, which is just their bedroom and is up there for like three minutes and then comes back down. I never told you about that. And then she just leaves. But it was like one of the creepiest, weirdest things I've ever seen. How come she was moving shit? It's like she would, she would look over like for a while, she'd look at pictures or she'd like lean over, she was just snooping around. So I'm sure one time she like pick up a magazine, put it down thinking

they'll never notice. Oh my God. Isn't that amazing? You know that's happened in your life. Oh my God. Right. Like someone's gone through your shit. When I was a kid, when I was like an assert, there was a certain like young part period in my life, I was like 12, where all I fucking did was snoop through my fucking family shit. Yes. Just snoop. 100%. It was so much fun. I would always go through my mom's nightstand drawer because there was always weird, super random shit in there. But there was never anything good. But it would be like, if I dig back here far enough, there'll be something weird where I'm like, is this sexual? I'm not sure. And it never was. It was like never what I wanted it. One time I thought I found a porn under my parents bed and I pulled

it out and it was just an exercise like video tape. Yeah. I was gonna say a VCR. My friend and I went through it. It was during this time and I had a friend who was like, yeah, let's go through my mom's shit too. And we both had single moms and we found like, it must have been given to her as a gag gift. Because now that I'm older, I'm like, no one would use those on themselves. It's disgusting. But at the time I was like, I think we like stopped looking through people's stuff after we found this box of like weird dildo attachments. Yes. We were both like, oh no. Yeah. And never talked about it again. That's the thing that you learn depending from somewhere between when you're 11 and 14. Yeah. Which is you can go ahead and snoop

all you want. But there's a you have to land on the other side of snooping. Yeah. Which is not only that you're a snooper and you could get caught and known as that. Yeah. But then you know something. Yeah. There might be shit you don't want to know. You're not even imagining what you wouldn't want to know. Yeah. And managing that. You're just being like, I know what this is going to amount to. Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. Don't do it. Do not. Or I mean, do but just know that. But then you have to die with some secrets. You could snoop up a secret that you're then you're just like, well, we're gonna podcast and talk about it yours later. It's true. Okay. This isn't about me. This is about Susan. That's right. Disarming her alarm. It's dark in her room. She goes to her room.

This is your last chance to guess what this is. I know what this is because sorry, Mike is not in the house. No. Okay. But I know what you know. You think. Okay. You know, but you have no idea. From behind the bedroom door, a man suddenly lurches towards her. That's right. It's a hired guy. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. Susan doesn't recognize his face. He's got dockers, a blue striped shirt on and a tan baseball hat pulled down over his eyes. He has yellow rubber gloves on his hands and is carrying a red and black claw fucking hammer. A claw hammer. A claw hammer. He swings the fucking hammer and his first blow lands on her left temple. Okay. You hire a hit man and he's like, here's how I'm gonna do it.

I'm gonna bludgeon her to death. I mean, I choose to bludgeon a person as opposed to just shoot them and get out of that house. Yeah. Yeah. Horrified. Yeah. Okay. So using her instincts and her three decades of experience in the ER where Karen, all the ER nurses are trained regularly in self-defense, learning how to slip out of headlocks and clutches. Wow. Susan knows instinctively to crowd her attacker and not to like cower and back off because the blows land shittier. The closer you are. The closer you are. That's great. I'm not this don't legally, I am not telling you to do anything when you get attacked, etc. Yeah. And that would have less force. The swings of the hammer if she's not, if she's super close to him. Yeah. She fucking screams

at him. Who are you? What do you want? She's fucking yelling at him. But he doesn't answer. Susan's only five foot four. So she's five inches shorter than the man. And she has two bad knees from repeated injuries and excessive weight as she fucking clearly stated in her. In her single span. But she outweighed him because he was super skinny. So she says she slams her body up against his attempts to push him over, but he doesn't fall. Instead, he pushes Susan against the bedroom wall then says the only phrase that he ever said he's going to say that night secretly between you and me. The last fucking thing he'll ever say. Oh, you're strong. You're strong. And she says that the phrase sends surges of adrenaline through her because she said, quote, with with with hearing

this phrase, she says he's here to kill me. She realized at that moment, I don't know why I don't know who he is. But his intent was clear. And those are his last fucking words ever. Oh, Susan pushes him again and says who sent you. She wrestles the hammer from him and she fucking swings the claw three or four times in his skull. Fuck. She got the fucking hammer. Yes. He grabs it back. And so Susan grabs his throat and says, who sent you here? Squeezing his fucking throat. His face turns red and purple. And then he goes blue. Susan freaks out at that moment and lets go and tries to fucking run. She he catches her, though, as she's running from the bedroom. They're in this narrow hallway together. He spins her around and punches her splitting her

lip, punches her again, and she falls to the floor. And when she looks up, he's standing over her with the hammer. And at that moment, she thinks, I'm going to die today. Why'd she let go when his face was blue? I mean, people don't want to kill people. True. But fuck, at least make him pass out. Oh, I mean, yeah. But like you think close enough, right? The fact that he was able to get up. I guess so. I always think I'm smarter than people in death, near death situations. So she knows she needs to get the hammer from him. So she pulls him to the floor with her. So he's standing over her and she fucking pulls him to the ground with her. That's brilliant. I know she starts to bite him in her mind thinking, I know I'm going to die,

but I'm going to fucking leave teeth marks so people know that he like confined him. Yes. So she wrestling on the floor together, she bites his arm, his flank and his thigh and bites through his fucking zipper to his fucking genitals to his dick. They can't write that in the will on that probably. Probably not. At the same time, she's going through his fucking pockets looking for ID so she can like throw his wallet under the bed so like the cops will know who it is. Jesus. I know. Well, you know what? That ER, her working in ER probably prepped her for so many crazy things. There's no time to panic. Yeah. Yeah. Real clear thinker in horrible situations. Exactly. She said I was like a downed power line snapping on the pavement. How cool is that?

Wow. I know. The fight at this point had lasted, you know, how long this fight had gone on? How long can you fucking fight for? Do you think? I would give it a good 19 minutes. Okay. Never mind. It's 14. Oh, but however. That's a long time. You're going to say like six hours. I can't even do five minutes of cardio without fucking. I can't even walk up your stairs without being windy. Exactly. Yeah. All right. So we'll edit that out and then I'll say six minutes. Okay. Okay. Great. They're both wedged on their sides in the small hallway. She throws a leg over his body, climbs on top of him, hooks her left arm around his neck. So she's got a fucking chokehold. Yes. WWE style. Says tell me who sent you here and I will call you a fucking ambulance.

And all he did was growl. And then she says when I realized I was not going to ever regain the hammer, it came to me that I need, I needed to become the weapon. She says she leans forward, tightens her form against his throat and he stopped moving. She grabs the hammer and runs outside to the neighbors. They call 911. Here's a quote from the 911 call. Do you need an ambulance? They say, do you need an ambulance? And then they ever said, no, she's a nurse. She says, call an ambulance for the guy. He may be dead. She's like, I'm fucking fine. But she is not, she is. She's not adrenaline. No, she doesn't feel like as much of a badass about this as we think of her as a badass. She's like, freak the fuck out about it. Of course. Of course. I mean, not just that

this happened to her, but that she killed a dude. Right. Okay. Well, no, that's, I mean, that's a horrible burden. Yes. So the man was fucking dead. His name, his name was Edward Haffey. He was a 59 year old Vietnam veteran. An optop she showed he had a near lethal dose of cocaine in his system. When he died, relatives and friends told police he'd been raised in an upper middle class home and was an avid tennis player. So something fucking happened and I bet it's cocaine. Yeah. He recently lived or Vietnam, he recently lived in a trailer on northeast killingsworth street and had a long wrap sheet. In Susan's basement, they find Ed's backpack and inside is a container of Hershey's syrup. What? Two dollars in cash, diabetes pill

and a daybook and a pay stub. So court records show that 15 years earlier on February 28th, 1991, this guy, Edward Haffey arranged the murder of his ex-girlfriend, 39 year old Georgia Lee Dutton. Weird that my name is Georgia and my sister's nickname is Lee. Yeah. Not really. A little bit. A little bit. A touch of weird. Let's go a little. Her decomposed body was later found along the umpaw River. That's right. Is that right? Yeah. Near Roseburg. So I tried to look up details about her murder because I wanted to say some more about her, but I can't find anything at all. So he, he had pled guilty to conspiracy to commit aggravated murder in 1994 and spent the next nine years in the Eastern Oregon Correctional Institution and he had been released in November

of 2003 for murder. Oh God. Okay. Oh my God. After he got out, he moved to Portland and in July 2004 was hired by none other than our fucking friend, Mike, uh, Kuhn Hansen. The worst last name of all time. Hate his name. To clean floors at adult, at fantasy adult video. Oh. So they were workmates. They were workmates. So, which is where the paste up in his backpack was from. Oh, okay. Okay. And there's also a day book that had an entry that said call Mike for September 4th, 2006, along with Mike's new cell phone number. So like, not a good murderer. No one's covering anything. Not a good hit man. No. And he got killed instead of. Well, I mean, the claw, the claw hammer is the indicator. This is not a hit man. This is like a lunatic. Yeah, definitely. So on

September 8th, Mike left a suicide note at his father's house saying, all I ever wanted was to be loved. And every time I had it, I fucked it up. No, dude, you're a piece of shit. Don't feel fucking sorry for yourself. Yeah, this is not the time for if you've arranged the murder of your ex wife, that yeah, it's not the time to talk about how hard things are for you. Right. And how bad it is that you fucked things up. So then he takes off 10 a.m. on September 13th, a deputy finds Mike in the parking garage of a Kaiser. He's Mike says he's checking himself in. We don't Kaiser. Yeah. They won't have they'll have you there for 10 minutes max. Well, to a psychiatric hold. Oh, sorry. Whatever. Talking shit. I didn't realize Kaiser had any psychiatric services available.

Let's go try it. I will right now. I will. So police put him in a voluntary psychiatric hold, then they put him under arrest for conspiracy commit murder. Obviously had a motive. His he had lost his job weeks earlier. He had no place to live. Susan had named her brother as a beneficiary in her life insurance policy, which is so smart because she was like, I'm divorced. Like she must have had some fucking yeah, you know, and Mike knew that. But Susan and Mike have paid off that house. And it was worth about $300,000. And it would be all his if Susan died. So he Mike claims he has nothing to do with it. But there's no signs of forced entry at Susan's home. And the security record showed someone had disabled the alarm while Susan was at work.

Mike later said he he had just dropped the note off. But they were what they were like, you let this fucking killer inside. He's like, no, no, I didn't. Oh, the note was like his cover of like that proves that I was there. But it wasn't my thing. I was there and I disabled the alarm. But it was so I could leave this note. And they're like, Yeah, but clearly, you just fucking let this guy in at the same time. Yeah. And also, if they're getting a divorce or divorced, why would she give a shit if he's going some like, right? Tell me when you get back that you went somewhere. Right. No, it's fair. It's very stupid. Yeah. So blah, blah, blah, all these other little things happen. And we know it's him. The promise was a $50,000 payday for this, the dude who killed

her who got killed. On August 30, 2007, Mike pleads guilty to soliciting soliciting maybe Susan's murder. Okay. And that so the hit man's aunt writes a letter to Susan in 2010. After all, this takes place saying, although this was a terrible thing that happened, no one in this family has any bad feelings towards you. You did what you were forced to do. And in doing so, you spared many from the same trauma you experienced. That's right. Oh my God. That's incredible. I know. So Susan filed for divorce the day after Mike's arrest. Oh, they were just separated. Yeah, they hadn't divorced. Okay. Okay. And by 2014, she had moved to a new Portland home and like a crazy out of the way cul-de-sac.

She said she felt like a quote, a broken plate glued back together. Like she's just, it's so sweet that she's so fucking heartbroken about having to kill someone even though the person she killed out of self-defense was the person who was sent to murder her. The person who attempted to murder her. Yeah, like very eloquently. She's a badass and she's justified as fuck. And what an amazing person. And we all hope that we would act the same way in such a situation and we're in awe of her that she fucking did that. And it doesn't really feel that way. I think when it happens is what this shows us. Right. It's like the first, that's, that's the effect that has on us as first person.

Especially as a nurse who's like trained to save lives. That's her point in life. Yeah. That's exactly right. And she's, and she understands why people get into the situation where they're like, I'm doing so much coke. I think it's okay to kill someone with a claw hammer. Yeah. The worst. So, so she, she's super paranoid this time. She says, I'm doing a life sentence for picking a bad husband, which is like, don't put that on you. Yeah. We're all broken plates. That's the thing. We're all broken plates. We're all broken plates.

We've never been whole plates. Yeah. Maybe right when we were born, but yeah, somewhere around. Yeah. I mean, it's different for everybody. Two, like this podcast. For me, I would say it was, it really was preteen. That's when they broke. I was just like, what the fuck is happening? Yeah. I see that. I think when we first, I have memories. Like you have a memory because something happens. True. You know.

Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I think, I mean, five or six, I think for me. But her, yeah, that experience would be, that's something you really have to work through. Yes. So Mike is supposed to be released on September 14, 2014. So she's freaking the fuck out. She puts gravel all around her house so she can hear any footsteps. She practiced shooting at a shooting range. And she said, if he came here, he was not going to get close enough to hurt me.

So can you imagine how terrifying that is? Yeah. Then 92 days before his release on Friday the 13th of 2014, Mike died of prostate cancer in prison at 65 years old. Shit. Yeah. So she, her name is now Susan Walters. She continued to work as a nurse until December, 2014. And today she's a motivational speaker and provides self-defense expertise for Portland's,

for Portland Police Bureau's Women's Strength and Girl Strength programs. Yes. And she's a go-to expert on victims' fucking rights. Yeah. Yeah. She's an advocate and focuses on developing a web-based portal for crime victims. That portal provides a protected single point for victims to receive updates about their offenders. So you know, like the people are like, no one fucking told me he was getting out of prison or today was his fucking parole hearing I could have gone to and said what happened.

Yeah. You know, you can follow that now. Yeah, that's great. It's amazing. That's so important. Victims of crime in malt, oh God, everyone. Maltenoma, Maltenoma County, is that right? Yeah.

Can now follow their case, their offenders and access resources through the website. It's casecompanion.org. And I think every fucking city should have this. That's incredible. And she said, Susan says, surviving the event itself is difficult. Surviving a prolonged and protracted criminal justice journey is also equally hard, which we like totally, that's amazing. So she said, being an imperfect woman, I married an imperfect man thinking that we could love,

honor and negotiate and have a good life together. But he had issues around abandonment, anger and anxiety that he couldn't overcome. She says that she and the family of Mike hopes that he finds the peace he didn't find in this world in death. And that's the story of badass fucking Susan Kuhnhausen. Wow, that's amazing. And there's a survivor. I survived about it.

Yeah. That's good. I watched it and it's good, but there's another story in it. One of the other two stories that's really fucking depressing. Which one? It's a girl who's closing up like the store she works in and gets held up and like, they never found the person. It's just like really, and she's so fragile and like clearly like

not ready to talk about it. Yeah, that show is so good. It's so perfectly produced. It's so well done. But there are, I would say about five where I watch and go, this person isn't ready and isn't, it's beautiful that they're doing it for themselves because I bet it's a great step for them. And for other, I'm sure other people listen to it and hear it and see this woman telling the story and they're so empowered by her.

But she just seemed so fragile and it was, it made me really sad. But it's also the reality of it. Yeah. It's the reality of it. It totally is. Yeah, I, I, yeah, it's so good. That show is incredible. And then there was a family whose fucking boat like capsized.

They were cool too. I dipped into a frozen river. It's like, okay, and I feel bad for you. But there's a woman who's fighting off a fucking claw hammer. We need to get back to her. Can we, can we real quick? Real quick. Those are always the stories that end first.

Do you notice that? Yeah. The boat people, the boat capsizes. They get rescued. And then they're like, well, God helped me out of the ocean. Awesome. We'll talk to you later. Hey, Susan.

What did God not help you out of? Can you tell us? God helped them out of the ocean. What did you ever do? She's like, well, I became an emergency room nurse and fucking nailed some shit to the wall. Yes, she did. Oh, it's intense. Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

All right, well, I went a little culty with mine for this week. Good. I think because somebody recommended on Twitter, and I'm sorry I didn't write your name down, because I get very defensive when people recommend British procedurals to me, as you know. Yeah. Because I'm always like, how dare you come to me with a wall under recommendation.

We've talked about this a lot. But I still like it. Let's talk about it more. What? Let's talk about it more. Let's really do a deep dive. This is about you. But somebody recommended a show called Silent Witness, and it is basically a,

it's like a long order in England where there are on iTunes, it's season one through four, and then season like 17 through 29. Like it's been on for a really long time. It's a procedural. And it's basically about the coroner and the medical examiner. Ooh. And who's the Silent Witness? The coroner? The coroner medical examiner?

Or maybe the dead body. Dead body. I'm gonna need answers. Anyway. It's a cat. There's a cat that lives in the coroner's office. It's the coroner's cat, like a bodega cat, but in the, or just as up on a shelf.

Can I just say there's a, there's an Instagram called bodega cats of Instagram. Yeah. And it's made me never want to eat at a bodega again, because just the photos, I mean, they're adorable, but cats assholes on everything in bodega. Oh, like any fucking bag of guardettos, fucking chips you get, a cat, a bodega cat's asshole.

Just do a quick Clorox wipe rinse on the outside of that bag. I can never lick a bag of gordettos again. That's how you pick what flavor you want. Yeah. Because you lick the outside. They taste like what they're supposed to taste like, right? I gotta say, that's right. The outside tastes like the inside.

Just like people. Oh, I love fucking New York city bodegas so much as a country girl, who we always lived five miles away from anything good. When I lived in New York, the idea that I could walk down the stairs from my apartment and literally 40 feet to the corner and go in and get a bag of tates. They always have tates. They always have Haribo gummy bears.

They have some weird like brand of ice cream sandwiches. Yeah. And the name, the word bodega sounds so cool. It sounds very much like, hi, I'm an art student. I sometimes free base Coke, but I also just love to come and get an Italian sub sandwich. Oh my god. Okay.

So anyway, I went because I had watched, I think four seasons of Silent Witness. And there were some, it's very dramatically produced. And there's a lot of her just standing over a dead body being like, you know, the victim is in a, in rigor, where you're like, okay, this is very real. Like it's, it's... Because it's boring?

A little, it's a touch boring. Got it. They're not afraid to go boring in England. Because that's what it's really like. Because it's real. There was one where it was about a bunch of people who died on a boat. And then every time, so they were just sitting there waiting at the harbor, waiting for the dead bodies to get transported in from the ocean.

And then every time it would, there would just be this terrible horn that would sound. And I was like, I bet this is what really happens. This is awful. Like it's like... This is when I turn it off. Exactly. Because you're like, I don't want to experience this. Yeah.

Maybe it will happen to me someday. So how about I don't go through it now? Right. I don't want to hear, oh god. In the fucking show that I'm watching. Why do they keep driving dead bodies up in these jalapes? It's not funny. It's not, I don't appreciate it.

Okay. So anyway, I had a lot of that. So then I was like, well, let's take a nice left turn and go into a little cult area. Great. And I thought about the one that I've always been obsessed with, which is the Order of the Solar Temple. Oh my god. So this was the one where on October 4th, 1994,

and this was on, so remember back 94. Remember it. It was on all the news. I don't remember this. Okay. Get ready. Because you might as... I encourage you to yell out when you remember. I'm going to.

Oh, you don't have to encourage me. Okay. So October 4th, 1994, it's a place called Moran, I'm assuming it's pronounced Moran Heights. It's a ski resort near Montreal. And authorities are called to the scene of a burning condominium. And when they get inside, put the fire out,

they find two charred dead bodies. So they look up who owns the condominium and on the, whatever, mortgage papers. I don't have. I put owner stock use names. Owners. Owners stuff. The signage page area.

Yeah. The owners are two men, Joseph DeMombro and Luke Jarre. So they assume that's these two charred bodies are the owners. But then as the investigators make their way through the burned condominium apartment, they find three more bodies in the back,

in the back of the house in like stacked in a closet. And those bodies are identified as a man named Tony DuToyte or DuTois and his wife Nikki and their three month old son, Christopher Emanuel. Are they burned too? They're burned. But then once the investigators start looking into it,

they realize that the front two bodies and the back bodies are all covered in blood. So before they burned, they were covered in blood. Oh my God. So then they're like, something actually happened here. Well, then on Tony's body, he was stabbed over 50 times in the back. Holy shit.

Nikki was stabbed in the chest and upper body area like six or seven times. Oh my God. This is the worst part. The baby was stabbed in the heart with a wooden stake. So they're like, what the fuck kind of occult shit is going on here? I have never heard this before. It's shitty.

Tell me everything. Okay. So then they realize that one of the two bodies that they found originally up in the front of the house, one of them is a woman. So they're like, I don't think this is the owner. Something insane happened here. So that they put out arrest warrants for the owners

because they had the police discover that all five of these people were members of the Order of the Solar Temple, which was a very secretive sect founded by the two men on the owner's papers, Joseph DeMombro and Luke Jarre. Then the police find out that Tony and his wife, Nikki, had recently left the cult after speaking out against these leaders.

And so that's when the cops are like, okay, we got to arrest these guys. But they're nowhere to be found. The next day, or it's the same, let's see, it's October 5th in the Swiss village of Serie, is how it's pronounced. There's a farmhouse that's on fire. And when the firemen in the Swiss village go there

and put it out, they find the owner inside. He's slumped over the kitchen table. And there's a plastic bag over his head. So they think, oh no, he's an elderly farmer and he's committed suicide. Then they find a gunshot wound in the back of his head. And they're like, uh-oh. So then as they inspect the house,

they start finding incendiary devices all over the house. And then they start looking in the outbuildings on the property. So there's more buildings aside from the farmhouse. They start to investigate these buildings. They also have these incendiary devices in them. And one of them, one of the cops observes that the outside of the building is really big,

but when they go in, it's really small. There's just a small space and it's like an office that looks really busy. It looks like there's people that come there to work every day or whatever. But it's compared to the outside, they're like, they start looking for secret panels. Ooh.

And they find one. And basically what happens is an entire section of wall is found to be able to slide back. Oh my God. On the other side of this wall, they find a huge secret chamber. It's decorated floor to ceiling in red. No.

It has these weird mirrors on every wall that at the top are kind of shaped a little bit like, I don't know what the word is. It's like that, you know, like the top of a Turkish turret or whatever, where it looks like a Hershey's kiss, but swoopy, fatter. Yes. Anyway, it's all like ritualized.

There's weird, these weird stands, like lecterns that are gold. They're in there and there's, and then they, so basically it's all obviously used for some kind of religious right. Some straight up culty bullshit. Some culty bullshit. There's champagne bottles on the ground.

Okay. And in the middle of the floor arranged in a, like star formation, feet in the center, head to the outside are 18 corpses. Shhh. You're at the 18. 18. They're all wearing either red, gold,

or black ceremonial capes. And some have plastic bags over their heads. Then they find another, a second secret room. There's three more bodies inside that room. And there's a ton of blood in both rooms. Oh my God. So the police basically start putting together. Can you imagine stumbling upon that?

No, it's- A, stumbling on a fucking secret hidden room. Yes. Like, which is awesome. The roller coaster of emotions that cop went through where he's like, I'm the one that, hey, I, and then they slide the wall back and it's like, well, here you go.

Yeah, this is what you wanted. Here's your secret room, friend. So they realize that this is obviously a ritualized mass suicide. Yeah. But there's so much blood in the room. They're like, oh, this wasn't voluntary for a lot of these people.

Yeah. And most of the people had been killed by gunshot wounds to the head that were not self-inflicted. So that's how they start putting together that this was perhaps non-voluntary suicide. Or, as we like to call it, Murderer. Okay.

Non-voluntary suicide. The worst kind of suicide, non-voluntary. I am a professional psych cop. Okay. So then two days later, 100 miles away in the Swiss resort village of Grange-sur-Salvant. Thank you so much. You know it sounds nothing like that.

Yeah, but it sounds better when you say it. I just, I'm trying to sell it like I'm a waitress at a fancy French cafe, right? Would you like a croque, monsieur? Or a Grange-sur-Salvant? Yeah. Okay. So, which is French for baked onion.

Okay. The fire department is called to now three adjacent chalets that are all on fire. And inside each, they find eerily similar scenes to the Syrian fire. This time, 25 bodies are discovered. Oh my God. Including three teenagers and four children.

And most of these bodies, these victims have been poisoned. And they're all identified through our dental records to also be members of the order of the solar temple. And in this situation, only 15 of the 47 were true suicides. The rest were murders. So now the search for the co-founders of the order of the solar temple goes international. So basically, this cult was founded by this guy,

Joseph DeMombro, who was born in southern France. He studied to be a clockmaker and a jeweler, but he always had interest in the occult. And when he was in his 30s, he joined the Rosicutions or the Order of the Rosie Cross. And it's another, so there's all these secret cults or sects that are based on the Knights Templar. So the Knights Templar were the knights

who went on the first crusades and they came back. And then they were so dedicated to this spreading of Christianity down into the Middle East that they began to protect. It was like they vowed to protect all these Christian pilgrims that were going down into the Middle East. So they basically kind of were out there protecting people, but they also made a ton of money because of the crusades.

They were just out there, obviously killing and pillaging and doing all their stuff. So they became very rich. Then their power, they were so well regarded that they became really powerful. And of course, then the popes were like, who are these motherfuckers? We're supposed to be the most powerful.

So then they became hunted. And then that's when they went underground and it was all secret, secret, secret. So that's what all these people, and that's kind of like the Dan Brown books and stuff, where it's all the Knights Templar this and the Knights Templar that. If the guy or gal who does animate my podcast

would animate that part of you telling me, explaining to me the crusades. Because I would say, I would guess right now, and hopefully there is a history professor listening. Oh, yeah. I think I probably got that 57% right. I think I would have passed a test, but not well. Right, a D plus.

A D plus, which is pretty much my average. And it would make you happy. And then press it for like, you're not supposed to be happy about that. You're like, I can pass, bitch. I pass, bitch. And I never thought I could, because I can't read. So definitely let me know all the information

I'm missing in the 300 years that the Knights Templar were in action. But essentially, it became that thing. And we've all seen the Dan Brown. What is that book that I can't think of? The Da Vinci Code. The Da Vinci Code. Thank you, Steven.

Steven loves literature. But it's just this idea that essentially they were protecting Mary Magdalene who was carrying Jesus's baby. You know, that's like at the end of the day. That is supposedly the, what do they call that? The truce. The Bible, the Christianity. What's the cup?

The kiddish cup. Holy grail. Thank you. The holy grail is Jesus's baby, right? It's also called the kiddish cup. We had it first. Oh, that's true. So don't come at me with a fucking.

Yeah, you explain it to me. I don't fucking know what's going on. Anyway, this is a religion podcast. It's all about secrets. They base this whole thing on like secrets, hidden treasure, hidden money, making sure that they could always kind of get this, the Christianity, where they needed it to go. And have missionaries protected.

OK, so secret societies are like, got to keep it up with the Christians. Right. But then as we know, when things are secret, then little power structures come up. And then suddenly you've got two people that are like, well, I'm in charge of the secret sect. And now I've decided we're going to do a little something extra.

We're going to wash everybody's feet in a bucket, right? We're going to do. They start adding their own shit. And it's like, no longer are you a knight's templar. Now you're a foot washer. Now you're some kind of like, I feel like every woman needs to fuck me before we start this ceremony. How many times have I said this?

Fuck the government. And I'll say it again. This is not my fucking phrase. That's right. Elvis fucking knows. He's like, I'm sick of you saying that. He knows. He's so sick of it.

OK, so anyhow, I lost my place entirely. OK. That's what this podcast is called. Where am I? Where am I? He, in 1973, Joseph de Mombra moved to the Swiss border. He starts a group called the Center for the Preparation of the New Age.

So you know hot stuff is happening in this group. Let's get together. Let's weave some looms. Let's fucking make pottery. Let's talk about the Knights Templars. What year is this again? 73. OK.

And he begins to tell his followers or the people in the group that he is the reincarnation of the God Osiris and of Moses. And then he starts telling them, you're the reincarnation of Napoleon, and you're the reincarnation of Cleopatra. And everybody's the reincarnation of some famous political leader or royalty of some kind.

Doubt it. And then he starts telling them, he's the one that's going to decide who's having a relationship with who, because he's the only one who knows who they originally were. And now we have this chance to breed a master race of children. So let's make sure that Cleopatra has sex with Napoleon or whatever.

He's making up all this shit. People are like, yes, sounds good. Everyone's like, yeah, we want a bone. Yeah, we want a bone. And we want to be dead famous people. So he basically is like, I'm in charge of who gets married. I'm in charge of who gets to have children. So he goes from, we're a group that gets together

to talk about how grabbed the Knights Templar are. And now it's like, I control every aspect of your life, which is how it always goes. Even though that's how intense and bizarre it was, all these respected citizens and extremely wealthy people join this thing, because it's all about the, he sells this idea that if you give enough money, you can absorb the spirituality and power of the Knights

Templar. It's this honorable society, and you join it, and you're forwarding the Christian movement or what I don't know, whatever. So because rich people get bored is really what that means. They get bored and we all want guarantees. So it's like, I'm going to give this guy who claims to be, he also claimed to be the reincarnation

of a 14th century knight Templar, whatever. And then the other guy, Luke Gere, he claimed to be the third incarnation of Jesus Christ. He went straight to the top. Oh, man. Yeah. So basically, people are getting into it. And at that time, he changed the name.

Joseph DeMambro in 1978 changes the name to the foundation of the Golden Way. He takes a core group of the followers and was like, we're super into this. Let's go start the foundation of the Golden Way. And in that group, that's when Luke Gere shows up. He is Luke Gere was born in the Belgian Congo. He studied to be an actual doctor.

Then he decides he's not into like traditional medicines and he wants to be an alternative healer. So then he starts getting really into holistic medicine and really into new age shit. And he starts, he becomes like a star on the new age circuit. He's the one that like in the mid late 70s is out there telling everybody, here's how you tap into your inner, the God of Cyrus or whatever the fuck it is.

When you stop running that gas, you don't have to worry about gas prices and fucking having a job and money because you're wealthy. Yeah, don't worry about any of the things that everybody else in Jimmy Carter's America are freaking out about. Don't worry about it. Yeah, because you have enough money.

So come join a cult. Come secret sect with us. So when they meet, Joe DeMambro knows that this guy, he's like the face man. He's going to be the perfect pitch man for their new cult, which they in 1984 basically reconfigure. Yeah, it's going on for so long. They reconfigure and call themselves

the Order of the Solar Temple. So that's when Luke Jarre comes into Joe DeMambro's life. That's when it all clicks. So basically, in this group, they have these rituals that are based on ancient Christian and Masonic rites. It's all secret. So all the members are secret.

All that nobody tells anybody else that they're in this group. And at its height, they had lodges in Canada, Australia, Switzerland, and Martinique. I mean, I'll join just to fucking go on vacay. I mean, right? Just go to an island and then pretend you're Cleopatra. Skiing and shit. Skiing and Martinique.

So that was a joke, everybody. I know Martinique is a beautiful island. So soon, the topic changes. And when I say soon, I mean, after seven years or whatever the fuck soon, these people stay in this weird cult. They start sending this message that an apocalypse is coming. It's an environmental apocalypse. Man has caused it.

It's man's fault that it's going to happen. And only the elite are going to survive it. Oh, great. So if you want to be in that group, why don't you kick down all of the money that you have? No. Yeah, they make everybody give them all of their money. Oh, fuck.

Yeah. And it's this insurance. So eventually, that message becomes, the reason that you should trust us is that Joe's daughter, whose name was Emanuel, she was one of nine existing cosmic children who would lead them all to a planet that was next to the star Sirius.

And his son, also Eli, I believe his name was, his destiny, Eli's destiny, was to usher in the New Age. So luckily, the leader of this cult's two children were the key pieces to get them to. So basically, the Earth was going to end for environmental reasons. And then they were going to travel via a path of fire to a planet that's next to the star Sirius.

Everyone's like, it's crazy. And I want to be like, how the fuck? But there's the podcast Heaven's Gate. That's super good. So good, my sad retelling of the Heaven's Gate story last week before the podcast came out, by the way. I just, I didn't know about it yet. It was good.

They focus on a couple actual cult members and explain how it happened. And you kind of get it a little more, but it's just so bananas and bonkers. I think it comes down to that feeling of like, when life feels really plain all the time, and then you get introduced to an idea of your special. And there's more than this, and you're correct.

Everyone else is going along with their everyday life. They're all lemmings, you're special. I see how special you are. Come in, do my ritual. Let me show you in the back. I have knowledge and that I will impart on to you. Yes. Listen, I'm starting a cult right now.

Yeah, I mean, I believe in this. Are you in here? Are you the God of Cyrus? I have Elvis sitting on my lap staring at me. She is petting a cat in a kind of evil cult-like way. Yep. I just uncross his eyes. It's a miracle.

She's real. Yeah. So, OK, so basically, that talk goes on so long that, of course, nothing ends up happening. And the members are like, yeah, OK, you've been talking about this apocalypse for a while. Nothing's going on. And I've given you millions of dollars.

Make the apocalypse happen. Yeah, I want everyone else to die. I want to see what you're talking about. I want these things to happen. Well, also, meanwhile, they started getting, of course, super crazy with their power. They were buying houses everywhere. They had everybody's money.

So they're out like, they've got houses here. And as you saw, chalets and condos in every city. They're hiding fucking rooms. They can build things that look like small rooms, but that are actually big rooms. It's crazy. And so the members are like, yeah, you seem to be getting a lot of stuff.

But like all of our, you know, it's on our dime. So then Luke Gere is voted out as Grandmaster of the Canadian branch of the Temple of the Silver. How mad is he? Because he starts to demand that one woman has sex with him before every ritual for his to build strength. And everyone's like, OK. But he's getting, everyone started, he's like,

all the members are like, you're losing your shit. And it's obvious. And it's creepy. So then he gets voted out. Well, then Joe DeMambro is just like, wait, no, it's our cult. You can't get voted out. What are you doing? This isn't a fucking fantasy island or whatever.

Yeah. You mean survivor? Yes. Yes. You knew. Just as a bit of information, Luke Gere, it shouldn't be a surprise that he lost his shit. Because before joining the Order of the Solar Temple,

he belonged to a racist neo-nazi magical organization co-founded by former Gestapo officer named Julian Oregas. And he was also an illegal arms dealer. So he wasn't a great, like he wasn't a nice handler. Do a little background check, rich people. Yeah. Are you a good guy? Can you ride a horse?

Are you an arms dealer? These things should disqualify you. So then this is all building, right? So they're like slightly losing control. No, no, focus on my cosmic daughter, whatever. Then in February of 1993, it's the 54 day siege of Waco. Oh, shit. So on all of our TVs, we all saw the Branch Davidians

and David Kourash and everything. We saw that whole thing go up in flames. Is that going to be a podcast soon or a TV show? I think it's a TV show. Like a documentary. I think it's one of those American crimes or something. Can I write an experience? American dad?

I want to see a good documentary. Oh, that'd be fun. Just the longest American dad of all time. He works for the CIA. So OK, so after that happens and everybody watched it on TV. And everyone's like, oh, no more cults for me. Exactly. I think I've had enough.

I'm full. Is the funniest thing in the world to me where they're like, oh, this is where we're headed. We're not actually headed to a planet next to the star series. We're just going to burn government style. Right. That's the government. Listen, it's the government.

OK, so. Please don't hurt me, government. That won't work. So this is too late. This is my favorite part. So as all of this is right, it's crumbling. It's crumbling. Our millions, you know, people are walking away our secret.

And they really did have. They had millionaires. They had scientists. They had famous architects. There was people in this cult, very high level people, a very famous Swiss composer. So it was like a bunch of smarty pants. Smarty pants and Richie's.

Smarty smart and Richie fucking asshole. I mean, the whole place smelled like fucking aftershave. So what am I saying? So OK, then they discover. So our friend Tony Dutois, I don't remember how I pronounced it, the man who was found stabbed 50 times in the apartment in Canada. His wife and daughter and baby.

And his wife and baby. OK, so it turns out he was a long time member of the Order of the Solar Temple. And he discovered. So they would have these rites and rituals. And when Joe DiMombro did them, he could make things fly. He could make things like appear out of nowhere. There's all these weird things he did that made people believe

that he was special and had special powers. Well, it turns out Tony Dutois discovers that he was using lasers and holograms. No. And he was back in 90. I'm impressed by that in 94. Yeah. Even earlier.

He basically set it up so the whole thing was like special effects and fog and light show or whatever and made people believe it was his power. And he was spending. He was spending their money, a ton of money, because a hologram back then was very expensive. It's basically like Coachella fucking DJ set. Yeah, but just him and 12 people in robes.

So Tony finds out about this and starts going, you guys, this is super fake. This is a whole thing as a fraud to the point where and so much like distrust and disillusion was going through the whole cult down to Joe DeMombra's own children who were like, my dad's a fraud. Like everybody was starting to bail. I am not a space cadet.

My dad is lying. I can't lead you to that planet. No. But that's my favorite that it was like the straw that broke the camel's back was that his holograms and lasers were discovered. So then everyone's just bailing like crazy. OK, so then he so basically Tony tells everybody

and then like gets out of town. So Joe DeMombra announced to the remaining members that the detois three month old son was the antichrist and needed to be assassinated. Oh, no. Yes, that's so. So the two bodies that were in that condo from the beginning of the story turned out

to be 35 year old Jerry Geno and 60 year old Colette Geno. What? They murdered the detois, murdered that baby, and then committed suicide and lit that apartment on fire with the incendiary device that was like all the incendiary devices in Switzerland. Yes. So awful, awful people.

So crazy. And then like once they knew that was happening, they they know it's over. So they announced to the rest of the membership that the apocalypse has arrived. And it's time for all of them to travel to the planet next to the star serious. Let's go.

So it's mass suicide time. And and because they they were saying the transformation takes place in fire, that's why all those incendiary that's where all the buildings were burning. So what were the incendiary devices made out of? Do you know I don't. But in my mind, it looks like a light switch with the plate off the front.

Yeah. And like there's a little thing tied to this thing and a little. And then a mouse chews the rope. Yes. Right. And then boom. Yeah.

The mouse survives. That's right. The mouse is fine. The mouse is innocent. And then a cat swoops down and eats the mouse. Yay. So it was at that farmhouse from the beginning in Syria where Joe DiMambro and Luke Jarre met their end

along with 21 other members. So they were OK. They were in Syria. Then OK. So that was basically the reason that it's so amazing to me is because I remember very distinctly when I saw it on the news, they were so vague. And it's still you can barely get any good information.

You never heard of this. What was really happening. But I remember seeing it on the news and being like, I want to know more. And and all you ever heard was. So then again in 1995 in Grenoble, they find 16 bodies out in the forest. What?

Uh-huh. And they in an area they called Hell's. Hell's entrance or Hell's hole or something, which is super creepy. And the creep that you can see a picture online, it's a forest. There's police tape. It looks like it's from like a helicopter.

There's police tape. And then there it just looks like there's a weird orange light. It's super creepy. I have never. I fucking Google weird murders, weird deaths, weird. What the fuck, you know, all the time. And I've never heard of this. Fold some Knights Templar in there, fold in cult.

OK. Fold in. Well, so in that forest, there were 16 bodies. And this is a year later. Then two years after that in Quebec, in March of 97, five people are found dead. And at the last minute, three children who were supposed to also die convinced their parents who

ended up dead, convinced their parents that they wanted to live and their parents let them go so three kids escape. I want to interview them. Right. What's that? They're still killing themselves, even though it's over? Yes. Two years later.

Like, by who? Like, why? So crazy, or three years later. So the total number of deaths in the order of the Solar Temple is 74. Jesus. And their members included scientists, architects, policemen, and children.

What? And the group had between four and 600 members. It's estimated to have made, in its prime, $93 million. And in the Grenoble scene in 1995, where they found 16 bodies, the wife of famous champion skier, Jean Varnay, who was the inventor of the awesome 80s sunglasses. His wife, Edith, and their youngest son, Patrick,

were among the 16 victims. So they couldn't have been richer. They had, Varnay in the 80s was like, you couldn't be richer. Are they the ones with the swoopy thing here, the weird thing here? No, Varnay's were like the kind of the original ski sunglasses that they were mirrored, and they were like kind of plastic-y. Yeah, every douche fucking skier instructor has this.

Rich guys. We went skiing the first time we went to Tahoe when I was eight. They made us take ski lessons. And my sister had a pair of Varnays on. And I, instead of listening to the ski instructor, just kept staring at myself in the mirrored reflection of my sister's sunglasses. So I didn't listen to how to stop or what to do.

And so basically, we went down one run, and I was like, I need to take these off. I'm leaving. I'm not doing this. I don't know what's going on. And then we just played in the snow all day. Exactly. Here's a more interesting one.

Channel 4, the British TV station, they made a documentary alleging that Grace Kelly, the princess of Monaco, was also initiated into the order of the solar temple just months before her car accident that took her life. Yeah, she was in a car accident. Some say she was not in that car. Some say the body was never found. But her estate denies any association

with the order of the solar temple. But the filmmakers who made this documentary for Channel 4 talked to the acupuncturist who worked on Princess Grace before her orientation, or not orientation initiation ceremony, because apparently they did acupuncture to relax people so that they weren't freaked out, I guess. And that woman attested to the fact

that it was Princess Grace but didn't want to give her name or information because she's scared because she says that the order of the solar temple is still in effect today, still has members, and she's scared of those members coming to retaliate against her. Like they're hiding out in plain sight. Steven! See that?

And so the very last thing is, when Princess Grace's car crashed in Monaco, her car landed in the yard of a member of the order of the solar temple. The end, Karen. That was good. That was a good one, right? That was a really good one. Shit, dude.

I know. I want to know everything. I want to know what these people talked about. There's photos. Are there pictures? Yes. There's pictures of, and the faces are blacked out. There's black bars across the eyes of an actual ritual.

But then there's the empty room where they found the bodies. The ones I saw, it was just the room without the bodies lying in it, but then you can also see there's like graphs of how they laid out the bodies in star formation. I want that, I want that, I want that. And I think the one, the people that killed themselves last in 1997 in Canada were laid out in a crucifix formation.

So the people who, unintentional suicide, those people, did they ever figure out if they were just kill me or they were like held hostage? Because I could see people who were like, I don't want to kill myself, but just shoot me in the back of the head. Yeah, I think what they were saying is the theory is that it wasn't.

They were like, I don't want to do this. It was OK. They went there for other reasons. Some of them think they were drugged or poisoned, but then they fought them because there was so much blood that it wasn't just like putting people down in an orderly fashion. There was like, it was a real bloody crime scene.

So they think it was, that's what led them to believe it was the against your will suicide. That's crazy. It's fucking nuts. Man, alive. Secret cults. Secret cults. Where is the treasure hidden?

There's treasure. Treasure. Oh, yeah, the Knights Templar. They supposedly, that's like Nick Cage style. They supposedly have. Oh, is that what that is? Yeah, because they went and pillaged everything down in like the Holy Land.

They stole all the shit. They stole the ship and the fucking Jewish people. What's up? That's right. Chosen ones. So it's your birthright to go and find those gold balloons and take them back. Let's do it.

I would love to. Let's go on an adventure. OK. OK. Goodbye. That was amazing. Thank you. Thank you for that.

Absolutely. Love a cult. What did we, well, we've come to the end, my friends. Oh, yeah. Do you have a fun thing for this week? A thing that made me happy. Yeah. Now do you?

Well, I do actually. OK, great. Maybe it'll inspire me. OK, good. But this is a, it's a repeat of what I've done before, but it's kind of an update. And it's very exciting because my favorite band and now many other people's favorite band,

Sure Sure, finally came out with an album. It's self-titled. It says Sure Sure. You can get it on Spotify. You can get it on iTunes. And it is so goddamn good. It's all the, like, single releases that they had before. And then a bunch of new songs I've never heard before

that are so beautiful. And it's just great. I just got it. And I love it. So. Well, if we're going to do, this will be the music. Perfect thing. Vince got us tickets.

So Vince surprised me with tickets to go see the band Jobbreaker. Nice. Which I'm like, super excited to go see them. I've never, I've never seen them play. I've been in love with them forever. Great old band. Everyone go listen.

But it's also, I love that Vince does shit like that. And it's really sweet. And like, I would never go see music or anything live. Vince is like, into that shit. Yeah. So like, he does it. And then I'm like, why don't I do this more? I know.

Yeah. So it's nice to. Because you have friends like me that are like, um, I'm tired. Well, you know, I'm not going to go that night. Like that night, I'm going to be sick. Like I am every night. But it's sweet that he did it. It's so good.

Oh, wait. So it's future. You haven't done it yet? Yeah, I haven't done it yet. He just bought tickets to go see Jobbreaker. That's awesome. And the, you know, 20-something-year-old George was like, he put it on the radio today.

And I got really excited. Yes. That's exciting. Yeah. All right. Thanks for listening, you guys. Guys, thanks for once again going through that with us. We have had it up to here with not going through this with you.

Because we love it so much. It's very fun. It's a very fun job. And on our two-year anniversary, honey. Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much. We're so fucking lucky. This is the best ever.

It's crazy, lucky, wonderful. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Stephen. Thanks, Stephen. Well, thank you more in May. In six months, yeah. And when you earned it. That's six months.

When you earned it. When you fucking been through this shit like we have. The real shit. When you finally fucked the government the way we need you to. Elvis knows. He's been here from the fucking beginning. He was, he was here before us. Yeah.

He'll be here after us. He will remain after we are gone. Yep. That it? I think that's it. All right. Well, then stay sexy. And don't get murdered.

Bye. Elvis? One cookie? Yeah. Yeah.