My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 105 - Proclensity

Episode Date: January 25, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the murder of Christa Worthington and the case of Typhoid Mary.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Wake up. Hello. Good morning. Good morning and welcome to your favorite morning talk show. My favorite murder. The morning talk show that screams in your face to wake you up. Get down. Get down. Get up. Get up. Get down. Get back down. Get back up again. And then you're like, what do they want from me? We want just a couple crunches. Easy. Yeah. Simple. Just to wake you up. Fun. Fun and easy. Get the blood going. Yeah. Burpees. Fucking start burping. What if

burpees were not an exercise but just belching? I would be a fucking Olympian. You absolutely would. I would. You'd be internationally known. Are burpees the ones where you jump up and go down and to push up and jump up? Because I was thinking of Hercules, which is a cheerleading jump. Oh, God. Where you kind of look like a check. You turn your body into like a check mark. Check. And I was going to be like, wouldn't it work? It's such pain. Like, oh, and you mean your legs go forward. Check. One leg straight out. And then the other leg comes up in. Your knee comes to your chest. Don't do that. That's just back problems for your life. It's like this, but in the air. Okay. Take it from me. Everyone at home. I'm way up in the air.

She just, she just showed me one in the middle of the living room. It was amazing. Also, what am I talking about? I don't fucking know technically what a her key is. Like, you're a cheerleader? It's like I'm trying to get people to email us about things. I was a cheerleader, by the way. Oh my God. I was a song leader junior year of high school. Oh my God. Those were the ones that like did routine. Well, we are a small school, so we only had a certain amount of people anyway. But you know, we did dance routines to Janet Jackson's control. It's all about control. It's all about control. That's the only one I remember. Just that we had, you know, gloves that were white on the inside and blue on the outside. You're like blowing my mind. So then

you do a lot of this and you just switch it. Like a clown. White to blue. Like a mime, but white to blue. White blue, white blue. Oh, I've been like, and then one is this way, one is this way. So it's white blue. That's right. Then change it up. And then change it up. Five, six, seven, and eight. And then this is my favorite murder. Put your gloves up by your face. Are they whiter? Are they blue? Okay, this is one of my favorite parts about having this podcast is I get random texts from my beautiful friends who listen to it, who take the time to listen to it. Oh, wow. And then, but they sometimes can be months behind. So the other day, my beautiful friend, Sam Pancake, that's his real name, who is, who plays Dorothy in the live Golden Girls

that I told you about and love so much. I have the mug. Thank you for being a con. So you got me. It's still at Casita Del Campo. They started a new run of it. It's amazing. You really should go. But he sent me a text and all it said was fingers and faces. And it made me laugh so hard. Fingers and faces, the best beauty shop name. The best, worst beauty shop name of all time. Ever heard of. Just cut to the basics. Fingers and faces from the live Orlando show. Blue, white, the live Orlando show. And I'm sitting there reading my whatever one of us is reading a murder and I just see in the audience, whatever fucking production had happened the night before, maybe it was, who could it have been? Let's say someone like,

not too big, not too small. But so you've heard of them. Maybe let's see. It could have been, you know, it could have been at like, who's the you might as well be walking on the sun. Smash mouth. Thank you, Steven. Maybe a smash mouth. You might as well be walking on the sun. For all the good it'll do you. You might as well. And then one sad fucking confetti piece that had been sitting there since the night before slowly falls into this lovely lady's lap in the front row. That's right. I was just like, it's like she was blessed. Or she's dead. I don't know. I mean, it could have been the death confetti. That could have been the death confetti. It could have been so many things. Dottie. Is Dottie arranging papers upstairs? Dottie is digging an

inanimate object. Dottie. You go for it. You've been sedentary all day. The joy. Okay. You can cut that. The joy of kittens. The joy of kittens. Joy of fuck sex. The joy of kittens. That's the illustrated book you need to be reading. Do you know I have the joy of sex? I had an old copy I found ready to use books when I was like, well, I'm absolutely buying this. Did anybody write in it? I don't know. Did they write in it? I mean, that's what that's the first thing I look for is like somebody folded up a piece of paper and stuck it inside. Try this with Gary. That's maybe Gary will love you now. Ask Gary to please do this. All I know is that we got me and my friend Katie Newburger who lived down the street. She's the one whose family had llamas

and they had the old abandoned house on their property with the bills and the walls. Yeah. I believe I'm almost positive. It was at her house that we looked through that book because her mom was also a nurse and it was so we were starting to look at it like, ooh. Yeah. And the illustrations are so technical and like anatomical that we got bummed out very quickly. It's not interesting. Maybe we should just go swimming instead. It's like, and I said this last week I talked about reductress and their hilarious t-shirts, but they have one that's like, you know, and you see like a cow and it shows you the cuts of beef. There's one that's a vagina and it says the cuts of vagina. No. This is just like the cuts. It's just in that style. That's hilarious.

I just saw one of theirs on Twitter and it said, girl who promised not to tell anybody, only told two people. And then it's, the picture is so funny because it's a girl whose face is right next to a bunch of flowers. Like she's all smiling, all proud. That's me. It's so me. What about bitch, this bitch brought loose leaf tea to a fucking food donation. It's just like some, you can tell this bitch is like some hippy bitch who doesn't wear makeup because she's gorgeous. Not because she, yeah. Yeah. This bitch. Loose leaf tea. What about where did I come from? Do you remember that book? Oh, yes. Dude with the fucking guy who looks like George Costanza and his wife. Actually it looks like George Costanza's

parents and it's showing them having a baby and my mind was blown. Well, what about the part? There is a part where they're explaining to their child about sex and it's like, they basically say they rub on each other really fast or something. And I just remember staring, Steven's going to have a nervous breakdown. Steven can't talk. Staring? Sex. Steven. Steven. Steven. I don't know what that is. Well, I'll tell you, it's when two fat little cartoons rub against each other. It was very, like, I remember staring at it and just being like, it can't be this. Yeah. Sex isn't just friction, right? It can't be this. Just this little man. Oh, yeah. It was very confusing. It was a confusing time, the 80s.

The 80s and that age and like before you know and then what you think you know and then when you find out. And how funny it is, but you still can't get rid of the things you thought you knew. So it is still a little that. And the thing I thought I knew is God can see me and it's wrong. God can see you, but he's into it. What? Sorry, blasphemy. Is that what they're teaching at the temple? God damn it. Uh, shit. I'm going to hell. Is there hell? I'm going there. You don't think there's hell. Goodbye. Uh, no. Goodbye, hell. There's something. Bye, hell. Goodbye, hell. See you. Deuce is hell. Peace out, Motherfucker. Um, what do you have that sweet to talk about? Let's see. Besides friction, friction of sex. So it's describing sex cartoons from the 70s.

Well, this is a great email we got. Hi, ladies. This is from Erin. Hi, ladies. I was at the second Balboa theater show back in October. That's San Diego, right? And was happy to get a chance to listen to that first show that was recently posted. Oh, it's not fun. Of course, I do immediately Google the Betty Broderick murder house. It's right down the street from me and up for sale. Some great realtor spin to quote a home rich in history. Shut up. Um, you have to tell, right? It says have $2.5 million lying around. $2.5 million living in San Diego house. Yeah. And then she, she listed it. I could say the address, right? Cause it's an empty house. Yeah. I mean, like, or just say what street it's on. It's on Cypress

Avenue. Oh, where Van Morrison lives. Um, that was a deep cut. Um, yeah. Wow. That's kind of hilarious. Would you move into a place that like murders had happened there? And would you care? Like, would you take, have pause and ask your girlfriends over drinks or like, would you be cool with it? I think it just depends on the house. Like if it, I think you'd have, I would have to go in and like feel it out. But if it was some really old house, yeah, I don't know. I'd say like in the eighties or nineties, even there was a murder even with 2000 sort of them. I want to, you know what? I'm being cavalier right now because I want to say I would, but I just thought of the first night in that house and I would just be out of my mind. I feel like I would be fine,

but I bet I wouldn't. I want any noise you heard. Yeah. But I don't care. I don't hear that. Do you, I mean, but if you alone in the house, I mean anything, I feel like Vince would be more creeped out than I would. And I would pretend that I was saying no to the house on his behalf, but really it'd be because I was freaked out too, but I couldn't admit it because I have a murder podcast. Yes. That's right. You have to use him as a human shield and you can always and he can use me whenever he wants when he hates wrestling and can't talk about it. Right. He's really painted himself into a wrestling corner. He asked to love it for the rest of his life. He, there is no fucking doubt in my mind that that person, Vince Averall, the love of my life will love wrestling for the rest

of his life. He's going to two shows in the next few days. Is he really? Yeah. He's, it's, there's no worry. You know what's really hilarious? So many people that I follow on Twitter love wrestling that I, I feel like I have a good historical backlog knowledge of, I mean, people post stuff. You can start your own wrestling podcast. Yeah. You know what I will. I'm going to call it my favorite wrestling podcast. I went home after our last recording and watched the end of the fucking world on Netflix. It's such a good, you have to watch it. It's everything Georgia said it was and more. I binged it all at once. I forgot to mention that thing. So I was saying Wes Anderson, Harold and Maude, my friend Dahmer almost a little bit. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's just so gorgeous.

It's really well done. It's just those Brits. They know how to do some storytelling and the character humor. Yes. Oh, it's so good. But those kids are such good actors. Amazing. Such epic. I never want to watch teens do anything in these teens. We're the exception for sure. It's such a good show. Yeah. Watch it. The end of the fucking world. I see that kid whose dad was like, my son's missing and the cops were like, he's probably a runaway. And then I was like, fuck that shit and hired a fucking helicopter and found his kids crashed in a car in a ravine. Still alive 30 hours later. Shit. So like a couple of his kids were trapped in the car? No, it was just his son by himself. Yeah. Oh my God. The helicopter search, search, search found the

kid crashed in a fucking ravine. Still alive. Three hours later, he's like, holy shit. This kid's not a fucking runaway. I thought you were going to mention the alive. Still alive. The kid was found alive. Yes. He survived. Yeah. I thought you were going to talk about the three kids that escaped the house in Riverside County. Oh, Jesus. That were 12, like children between the ages of nine and 27 chained to a wall. It was like 14 kids. Yes. And they're all so emaciated, they couldn't tell how old they were. In Riverside. And also the my friend Karen Anderson is the one who told me to look at it. And she goes, the data is so upsetting. It looks like Jeff Daniels and Dumber and Dumber. Oh, no. And he totally has the weirdest bangs like page boy haircut. It's

very disturbing. The parents look very problematic. Yeah. Then and have proven to be right. Those poor children like to be able to still in prison at 27 year old means you've had some fucking lifelong conditioning of this poor kid. I'll tell you that when a kid knocked on their door, I bet you this is my theory. A kid going around trying to sell like magazines or something and knocked on that door. Whoever opened that door, whatever the smell was, that kid was like, sorry, I forgot something on my bike and ran away. Like, don't don't you think a house like that, it would just be like, like one weird candle in the in the background and everything else is dark. How many? Yeah. Or did they have the perfect veneer and like no one could tell? Yeah,

probably not. You got to lose. I mean, you can't you got to lose that veneer after a few kids. After the 11th child just changed to the wall. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Okay. All right. Looking for a better cooking routine with meal planning, shopping and prepping handled. Hello, fresh has you covered. Hello, fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. Hello, fresh meals are convenient, seasonal and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. Why stop with just dinner? Now you can enjoy Hello, fresh's expanded menu of quick lunch solutions, weekend brunch, simple side dishes and amazing desserts. Karen January is going to be

my month for Hello, fresh. I am so sick of takeout. I miss cooking so much I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since like early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and Hello, fresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder 20 with code murder 20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder 20 and use code murder 20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of Wondery's podcast against the odds. In our next season, three masked men hijack a school bus full of children

in the sleepy farm town of Chowchilla, California. They bury the children and their bus driver deep underground, planning to hold them for ransom. Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry. As the air supply for the trapped children dwindles, a pair of unlikely heroes emerges. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcast. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. You're first this week? I guess I am. Yeah. Is that correct? Yeah. You were first last week. Okay. Okay. So I have been on my couch. I sprained my ankle on Sunday. Tell everyone I saw the bruise. It's fucked up. It's, um, I rolled my ankle. I've

already sprained both my ankles twice. This is not, I don't find talking about medical problems interesting at all. But this was kind of great because I was walking my dogs with my friend on. He said, Hey, didn't did they redo that house? I look over my shoulder like it's a Gina Tay commercial walking the dog one direction, but looking backwards. And I'm like, that has over there. And just step like on the edge of the cement where the cement meets the grass. Roll my ankle. Listen to it snap. My friend Don, who was behind me said that it turned at a 90 degree angle. And then I went down. He said it looked like I looked like a stunt woman. I went like, I went down like hand, hip, leg, yeah, like in a perfect line. He really liked it. But, um, it,

I knew immediately that it was bad. And so I just got up and went in and kept it like couch. Goodbye. Yes. I elevated iced, whatever. So, um, tonight is the first night I've gone out and like driven. Oh, no, it was fine. If it's if I keep it like, you know, yeah, wrapped in static. So you've had a long time to study. I just got really caught up and telling that whole story. I'm like, Oh yeah, that's right. I'm trying to talk about this. So I've been laying in front on the couch. Now I'm talking about that as if kind of a dream. What? It's kind of a dream. Well, also I do it anyway. What I realized is this sprained ankle just made me go, you have to stop living like your ankle sprained all the time. You have to stop it.

So once your ankle is not sprained, start living, leave the house, go ahead and walk somewhere. Cause you know what? I guarantee they'll be sprained ankles in the future where you're going to be like, I wish I had lived my life outside of this. I always would know that I'd be back here at some point enjoying a sprained ankle. The couch is forever. You might as well go get up and move around while you can. And I feel like my body, because I'm so indignant and I'm so like defiance disorder based. I feel like my body has to sprain my ankle like every eight months just to be like up off the couch now. Or get you really sick to be like, wouldn't you love to not be here right now in that fucking couch? Stop living like you're sick and all of your joints

don't work. Okay. But since I was, there is a Netflix movie called murder on the cape. I don't know if you've seen it. It of course immediately came up when it went on to Netflix in my suggestions. Netflix knows us. What's amazing about it? Cause I was, and I think you and I talked about this a little bit, but I got really addicted to those Hallmark Christmas movies over Christmas. Cause my sister kept putting them on as a joke, but then we'd watch them for real. And it was always Christmas is for it is right? Cause it's you get like some hot chocolate. We're all sitting on the couch and then it's just make fun of TV. It's Blather. Yeah. It's, it's a guy in a huge sweater pretending he works at a Christmas tree farm. Right. But really? And it's always then

it's like, Oh, she's really smart and type A, but she had to come to this small town to do something. So okay. So I see murder on the cape and I'm like, that doesn't look like an actual movie and it doesn't look good. And I'm like, and also I wonder which murder on which cape this is. It checked all your boxes. Right? What's the thing? It hurt all your boxes and her keyed right into all my boxes. But so I looked it up online first before I actually, I didn't want to watch it cold. I don't want to waste my time. And the first thing that came up was an article on decider, the website decider called and the headline was murder on the cape is a bonkers crime story based on a true story. So they had already

watched it and reviewed it. And we're like, this thing is like the room basically. So I stopped reading that article because I didn't want to like, in case I had some of the same thoughts, I want to say that I just read the headline. And then the beginning of the description, I was like, okay, I'm not plagiarizing this. Yes, the word bonkers is amazing. Bonkers is my favorite. Why doesn't it use more? It's so funny. My friend Eric Dodorian on Twitter changed his name to Linda K bonkers and I laugh every time I see it. Okay. So this and I highly recommend that you do your substance of choice and that can be the Bible. It can be a glass of water, but do something to get yourself in the mood to accept what the television is giving you.

You could pour a glass of water on the Bible. That could be your thing. And then light it on fire. But what you should do is get some white wine or ginger ale and southern comfort. Okay. Yeah. How about some Malibu coconut liqueur and Fanta? Okay. Lime. Okay. Got it. Fanta lime and some and then a twist of lemon. Whatever it needs to be. Karen's just talking about her deathbed wish. That's serious. I'm going to make me a grasshopper. I almost thought when the Hawaiian nuclear strike thing came to her, I was like, I mean, I might as well just, this is really bad. But anyway, point being, I mean, we all get it, right? Yeah. I'm going to be back on that or off that wagon the second I have a valid governmental reason. The minute it happens, I'm going to come

over and be like, Hey, what are you doing with one of those huge bottles of champagne? Well, I'm not going to bring it. I'm going to let you because I don't want to enable you. Oh, you're just going to discover me. Hey, hi. Just wanted to check in on you. And then you're going to be like, that's weird. I guess I have champagne too. It's going to be a champagne party. Okay. So murder on the cape, the made for Netflix movie is quite something. And I highly recommend you watch it. It is very much like the room meets a it's almost from me, I would actually say more. It's not so bad as the room, but there are definitely actors where you say, did you like acting before your friend decided to make this movie? Or is this something that was

like you wanted to do that this weekend along with your friend who decided to make this? There's a lot of people making big choices, taking huge swings, really going for it. There's a lot I can, I could see in my mind's eye, these actors going, Hey, hey, Chuck or whoever the director is, I'm really going to go for it this time. Like this is what acting is ready? Yeah. I'm going to kick my leg and do a dance for some reason that doesn't actually connect with what my character is doing in the scene. So that's cool. The lead guy, I feel like I saw somewhere that somebody in this movie is wasn't a soap opera at some time. Oh, that makes sense. I didn't recognize anybody. Wow. And the story, the way the murder on the cape story is told is very much against the

victim in my opinion. It's very much making her look like she tricked him in like, and then I thought, Oh, I should actually look this up and see if there's somebody that was in the real case that is connected with writing this movie. Because it's just just median quality enough. So pretty much anyone could have written it. Like a conspiracy theory on the cape. I mean, you never know, you have to watch it. But she it's like she tricked him into sleeping with her. And then she tricked him into getting her pregnant. And then she and then like she was a big flirt. Yeah, there's it's it's a it's a very problematic presentation. So then I looked up the actual story because I'm like that story sounds familiar, but it is not look familiar in murder on the cape. Right.

And granted that they open it up by saying this is based on a true story, but I don't think they claim it is exact. Okay. Okay, so here's the real story. Okay. And then you can hear this story, process it and the horror of it, then like clear your palate and then go back and watch that thing as its own separate thing. Pour your glass of water on the Bible and then go watch it. Click. Yeah. Turn that TV on. Okay. So this all takes place in a town called Churro, Massachusetts, which I reminded myself just it's like you're saying churro tea. So it's churro tea churro t r u r o. I believe whatever. That's not it. Churro. That's not a word. I'm already mad at it. Okay. So it's 1997. And this is a tiny fishing village basically at the very top of Cape Cod.

And it's busy in the summer, obviously with vacationers, but then in the winter it's dead and it's really cold. Okay. Except for all the fishermen and the families that live there, obviously. And a woman named Krista Worthington moves there in 1997. She was a very successful at the time 40 year old fashion writer. She's written for Elle Harper's Women's Wear Daily, The New York Times. She's also co-authored books on fashion. She's a successful writer and she had been writing internationally. She'd been doing stuff in Europe and basically living a very high stress kind of high fashion lifestyle. And so she wanted to get away from that and go up to the Cape. So her family, she came from a very prominent family and her family owned a lot of different

houses and places in churro. When she moved there, she moved into a pink bungalow that was right next to the Harbour Masters Shack. And a couple months later, she moved out of that and into a larger house that her family owned, a really beautiful cottage. Sign me up. Yeah. I mean, looking at these places, there's a 48 hours, one of the main ones I watched is a 48 hours, eight hours all about it. And they just keep showing clips of like a ship just kind of going around like along the coastline and like, you know, an icebreaker. It's just like awesome looking. However, two weeks till you're bored out of your fucking mind. I mean, 20 bucks. You know, you got to have your Netflix. Sure. Got maybe like some crossword puzzles. You know

Wi-Fi is spotty out there. Yeah, that's true. That would make you nuts. Right. You'd get, you'd be getting on that Jitney back into town a couple of bunch of times. There are Jitney from Messages. I've never heard that word before, so I couldn't tell you. Jitney is a word I learned from my New York friends. They jump onto it to take. It's like a little bus that drives strictly to like the Hamptons or something from Manhattan or some like summer. It's the summertime Jitney. You go out to the beach. Okay. All right. So on January 6, 2002, a 20 to five in the afternoon, a guy named Tim Arnold, who is Krista Winnington's neighbor on the other side of the woods, drops by her house to return a flashlight. And inside he finds her dead body. She's been

stabbed on the left side of the chest. And she's on the kitchen floor. Her two-year-old daughter, Eva, is there next to her, clutching her. Two years old. So yeah, she's been with the body for a while. Tim grabs up at Eva and runs out, calls 911. Police come. They find that Chris has been stabbed through the chest. The knife missed her heart. It pierced her lung and she bled out on the kitchen floor. Oh my God. This murder is the first murder that Truro has seen in 30 years. So like nothing happens in this tiny town anyway. Like nothing like this. So of course, everyone's freaking out. And you know, they later on, the defense lawyer will claim that the EMTs were sloppy and compromised the crime scene. They did throw a blanket over Krista's body

when they got there to cover her up. She'd been raped. And luckily the police did find DNA on her body that they ended up sending to the lab. So they knew that there was somebody else's DNA on the body and that could be a good lead. Unfortunately, the lab was insanely backed up. It was 1997. So this was like, you know, so they start talking to the people in Krista's life. They talked to Tim Arnold, the neighbor, they find out he wasn't just her neighbor, he was also her ex-boyfriend. They dated for about a year. He says he has nothing to do with her death. Then in talking to her friends, they find out that Eva's father is a married man who was born and raised in Truro. And his name is Tony Jacket. Now, what the fuck? Why do we keep getting these

names? Jesus. Now, it does have two T's. But I mean, that's right on par with Jimmy Buttons in terms of a noun name. Buttons, Jacket, there's an onion. I mean, it just is if this was writing, it would be lazy, but it's not. It's just how it happens. So it turns out Tony Jacket, he's lived in Truro all his life. I'm only getting to call Tony Jacket the whole time. And he has six kids, he's married, but and this is in the 48 hours and by his own account, he saw Krista when she moved into that pink bungalow right by the Harbour Master Shack, because he was working there as the fishing warden. In the 48 hours, he calls himself the fishing warden. An article I found on abcnews.com referred to him, and I'm not joking, as the

shellfish constable. What the fuck? No, I don't know if that writer for abcnews.com was bored and just being funny. Or just reading cartoons. It sounds like a cartoon or pitching an idea for SpongeBob SquarePants episode. Yes. Where the shellfish constable rolls into town. Yeah, the same, but that's a cartoon name. It totally is. In the movie, the Netflix film, Murder on the Cape, the character that plays Tony Jacket's character is very ashamed to be the shellfish constable. And he was, I think, a contractor and he couldn't get work. And so this was his way of like, because they were, they're, you know, having financial, the family was having financial problems. He has six kids. Jesus, seriously. So he had to, you know, take

the job. Anyway, as he's working as a shellfish constable, he sees Krista, this beautiful, very, you know, very fashionable, very, you know, all the pictures of her. She's just a gorgeous woman. And he's immediately, they immediately hit it off and are attracted to each other. And she's like this high society. He's just like gruff, smelly, kind of hot, local, probably. Yes. He's very, he looks like he should have been like a third string character in The Sopranos. He has like big lips and squinty eyes and like combed back hair. Very kind of like Mambo Italiano. I can't explain it. Got it. And I'm not against it. I'll say that. Not judging. Like get yours. Get your C constable or whatever. Get your shellfish constable Italian

piece. Okay. So she, when they first get together, Krista tells Tony she can't have kids. She's been told she can't have kids. They have their affair for a year. They end up breaking up. In the film, Murder on the Cape, they make it look like she won't leave him alone and is like always trying to be in his business and finding him at the grocery store and stuff where I'm like, prove that. It seems like she had plenty of dudes in her life and it wasn't like desperate for this one. And she needs fucking Romaine lettuce. Where else is she going to go? And it's a tiny, truly tiny town. Right. Like I run into my fucking ex at the grocery store and this is fucking Los Angeles. Like for real? Maybe he's talking to me. I actually don't run into my ex. I have never

run into anyone I didn't want to run into in this town. I swear. And I, boy, I have to knock on wood now. Why would I ever say that out loud? I don't know. I just want like open the nightmare door basically. Ooh, next week's going to be fun when we talk about who you run into. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I better start wearing so much mascara. All the makeup. Constant, constant makeup. It'll be so different. Okay. Basically, she comes to him and says, I'm pregnant and it's your baby. And he's like, you told me you couldn't have babies. And then she's like, well, it's a miracle. And that's why I'm keeping it. I don't care what you say. And I don't, you don't need to be a part of it. Yeah. And he's, he said in the 48 hours, he was like, I was dumbfounded and he kind of thought she tricked

him. But she goes on and has her life and starts to raise her baby, her daughter, Ava herself. But at some point, she asked Tony not only to pay child support, but she wants him to tell his wife that he has a daughter. So Tony actually ends up, Tony Jacket ends up telling his wife of like how many years of six kids and years that he had an affair and now he has this daughter. Jackets. The jacket. Jackets. Come off. The jackets had to come off that night. So, so basically his wife Susan, of course, is very upset at first and live it at him. But then it basically they all, she ends up meeting Krista and Krista comes over for dinner and brings the baby and they start to make it work. Susan herself tells the story in the 48

hours. Women are the best people. Women are just like, this is a kid that is not going to like have her life be bad because because of because of fucking jackets over here because of Captain Jacket. I fucking married. Oh, man. So, so, and she says she actually liked her. Wow, that's amazing. I know. But but also Susan provides Tony's alibi. He was home with her the night of Krista's death. Okay. So the police are like, it's all a little weird. Yeah. But then they also discover Krista was having issues with her 72 year old father. They were, you know, as I said, like this prominent family and apparently the 72 year old father now had a 29 year old girlfriend. Her name is Elizabeth Porter. She had been a sex worker and she had been a heroin addict

and now she had gotten her life together and she was dating the love of her life 72 year old dad. You're embarrassing me. And Krista was like, you are spending too much money on this woman. And then they cut in the 48 hours, they fucking do a hard cut to this woman Elizabeth Porter walking down like a courtroom thing and she goes, y'all like to take pictures of me, don't you? And she has like this insane cigarette voice and she's just yelling at all the cameras at one. Oh my God. Not handling her shit at all. So he wasn't like, no, I've met this classy dame. And listen, I'm not talking shit on her being a sex worker or a heroin addict date sex worker and heroin addict, but a 29 year old and a 72 year old don't belong together. I mean, you don't know any of the same

references. No, you don't use any of the same emojis. No, or hair products or gifts or anything. You don't listen to the same podcast. I mean, overall, the rule is don't date someone younger than your children. Yes, please. I'm mad at the dad for being a fucking creepazoid. But I mean, I know a lot of people that have had that happen where they're like, and now my step mom's younger than me. No, that's just like an obvious no. I know. I shouldn't say a lot of people. I know one person. That'd be great if you knew a lot of people. I would be so impressed. These are the tiny ways I constantly lie. It just comes out as a lot of people and I'm like, just the one when they're not hurting anyone because I'm like, cool, tell me. But so that was actually, they were

like, well, this, this could actually be if she, because she was complaining with father and basically saying stop spending money, cut her off. So then, and you know, so it does become and it sounded like it was this thing where this is almost like a vacation town. It's the elite, the people with the money in the town and then the people who make the town go. Right. And they all kind of hate each other. I mean, it could, it all could get real, you know, who knows versus them. So the police are just like, it can be anybody. So they're thinking dad's girlfriend hired someone to kill her, maybe. Or they're just looking at that girlfriend that she doesn't have the best background and she would have reason to get rid of her to be like, yeah, I want to keep my money

source open. God, my dad is poor because otherwise it does solve a lot of problems. Yeah. No one's going to date. No 29 year olds going to date unless they're in love with him and they have my fucking blessing. And that's nice. That would be nice. But I'm happy. Okay. So they get the police, there's so much going on now and there's so many suspects that police go to the FBI to get help and to get a profile drawn up the profile that the FBI gives them doesn't help them. It does. They don't have anybody that matches it. Finally, a year after Chris's murder, lab results come back and they find out the DNA that they found on her body doesn't match any of these suspects. So none of these ex-boyfriends, not nobody. And they're like, what the fuck? So they have to

start all over again. So what they just decide to do is ask for the DNA of every man who lives in truth. Holy shit. And there's a reporter in this 40 hours who was like the reporter from day one. It was no way his whole story. Yeah. And he was like, well, then that was just crazy. And then it just so you clearly they have nothing and they're just like trying to do whatever. But how many men, how many men are we talking? I don't know offhand. Sorry, I shouldn't ask that. Normally I would have lied, but I caught myself. Let's say 1500. Let's just go ahead with 15,000 because it's fun and it's a it's a good number. It's a really small town. Let's say 200. Okay. Let's say between 200 and 9000. Great. Okay. So two and a half years later,

the DA Michael O'Keeffe announces they've gotten a matchback from the DNA. And some idiot killer gave them their DNA. Well, yes. And it leads to the arrest of a suspect named Christopher McGowan. He is her garbage man. So police first bring him in for questioning. The police say, do you know Krista Worthington? He says, no, I just know she's a stop on my on my garbage route. But I've never met her and I don't know her. And they say, okay, well, we found your DNA on her body. Now what do you have to say? And he says, well, actually, I went to her house on Thursday, which is the day that he his he picks up the garbage at her house. And then I went inside and we had consensual sex. And then he he says he went back Friday, had sex with her,

then beat her. But his friend, Jeremy Frazier was there. His friend, Jeremy Frazier started beating her up. And then he left and Jeremy Frazier is the one that stayed and killed her. Well, the police are like, well, that's a great story, except for Jeremy, your friend, Jeremy Frazier, your good friend that you're setting up for this murder, none of his DNA is anywhere in the house. And he's there's no way to prove that he was ever anywhere there. And so then basically, after a six hour interrogation, he signs a waiver that says he doesn't want a lawyer. And then he confesses to the murder. So this guy does the same guy, Christopher McGowan, the garbage man. Okay. So basically, the prosecution that so the trial

starts, the prosecution tells everybody that Christopher McGowan went out with his friend, Jeremy Frazier, and they got drunk. And then at 1am, he drives up to her house, rapes her and kills her. But Christopher McGowan's defense attorney is a guy named Bob George, he claims Christa had consensual sex with him going on Thursday, the day he brought he picked up the garbage. Then he left and that her murder took place somewhere between Thursday. And then when her body was found on Sunday, and that his client had nothing to do with it. God damn it. He also suggested that Christopher McGowan and Christa Worthington

could have been having a consensual affair for a while. And that it was just the elitists of this town that didn't believe that a white woman who is this fancy fashion writer could be having a consensual affair with a black man who was the garbage man. He also submitted that McGowan's IQ was in the low 70s. And so that's why he, he waived the right for the lawyer, he didn't have, he had no chance once he was in the police. But he basically said, but then, you know, so he's basically saying his IQ is really low. So he was tricked into all of this and he's just basically the perfect patsy. Well, then the prosecution comes back and says he, he's smart enough to have lied to say he didn't know her. You know, there's like a lot of evasion tactics

or whatever. So he clearly is not just because he didn't score well on an IQ test doesn't mean that he isn't tricky in doing whatever he wants. The defense also alleges that the crime scene was totally contaminated by sloppy EMTs because those EMTs came in and put a blanket on Chris's body when they first saw her. And so the DNA, who knows whose DNA was on that blanket, whatever, they kind of just keep introducing reasons to doubt. So Chris had a ex-boyfriend who lived in Manhattan who was in this 48 hours who says if Christa was having an affair with a garbage man, because he had visited her two weeks before her murder. And he said that would have been the first thing she said when I walked in the door, because she would have loved that story. She

would have been very proud of it. If she was having some kind of like, you know, it's not May, December, but it's like the wrong side of the tracks affair. She was the kind of person that would love to talk about that. So up until two weeks before her murder, that was not happening. So he basically kind of, it was interesting when he talked about that where it's like, you can totally see that. Basically, the trial goes on November 16, 2006. He's found guilty. Christopher McGowan has found guilty of first degree murder with extreme atrocity, aggravated rape, and aggravated armed burglary. And after the verdict is read, Christopher McGowan makes a statement to the court where he says, quote, I never meant for this to ever take place.

And then after he says that, he claims to still be innocent, which is a really weird way to say it, if you're innocent. He is serving three concurrent life terms in prison without the possibility of parole. So after that, all of that, the verdict comes down in January of 2008, several jurors came forward and claimed that there was a racial bias in the jury room during the deliberations. So all 12 jurors got called back to court by that judge, and they all were questioned over those claims. And their testimony revealed that there was a racial tension in the jury room. So because of that, Christopher McGowan's lawyer used that information as grounds to file an emotion for a retrial. But that was struck down as have all three appeals that McGowan's defense attorneys

have filed on his behalf since he got sentenced. And then in 2012, the defense attorney Bob George was convicted of money laundering, and he himself served three years in prison. Yes. So the very much I mean, I don't know, there's a lot of things that get introduced in this case in this 48 hours that this that defense attorney Bob George, he actually did a really good job of introducing all these possible doubts into this case. But at the end of the day, it's DNA. Yeah. And his was the only DNA on her body. And she was raped and murdered. And she was raped and murdered, which would have meant there would have been someone else's DNA there. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because that 48 hours is kind of old and they it's interesting how it feels like

they keep pointing to this idea that she quote had a lot of boyfriends that that seemed to be at play in the way people kind of like judged this. Yeah, that and like she had an affair with a married man where it's like, yeah, she was not to be trusted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or there was, I don't know, it's it's I didn't like, I didn't like it. And the movie did that too. The movie was crazy. The movie was all about fucking Tony Jackets, the well, the character that was representing him and like how tough his life was and how these all these women were making his life really tough. And there's poor fucking baby, you have to see, you have to see it. It's pretty amazing. And there's also the casting is fucking fascinating. The woman who plays Tony Jackets wife a couple

times I was like, is that Bridget Everett? You know the comic because it looked like her and it was this kind of like everything had a it was right on the verge of being campy. And then we just come back every time and to boring. When they made the movie, did they know who the killer was? And then they they showed that's what happened. Yes. Although I'm pretty sure I fell asleep before the end of the movie. Because how can you victim blame throughout a movie? And then it turns out it's just some fucking other guy, psycho murderer. Yes. You know what I mean? Which has it wouldn't matter if she was let's say promiscuous or not. I'm not saying she was but it wouldn't fucking matter. It doesn't matter anyway. Yeah. It's like that thing that happened happened.

That's the case that needs to get solved. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah, I think at the end of this thing it's they leave it super vague. Like maybe he didn't. Right. But it's like no, he did. Yeah. But I recommend everyone go because it's this bizarre crossroads of it's almost like every bad reenactment you've ever seen. Yeah. If all the reenactors had lines. Jesus. Whereas like, you know what, play with this scene and figure out what happened with you guys. I want to see crazy Susan Jackets gets her groove back where she leaves her fucking cheating husband, goes to an island. Is it Susan? It's Susan Jackets. It is now. Susan Jackets. How that's fucked up. It's crazy. But the little girl, the good news is the little girl went to live with

the person that that Krista Worthington chose to be her to be the guardian, which is a good friend of hers. But Tony Jackets and Susan have visited her and now she's like in college. And she's doing great. Honey. Yeah. Fly. You're a bird. Fly. I don't know. Spread your wings. You know. That's my words of encouragement. I bet that'll work. Spread your wings. Spread your wings and this stuff. Wow. Crazy. I mean, it's almost like a good thing that your ankle got twisted. Let me go ahead and say it's almost a good thing that I watched TV 24 hours a day. Okay. Finally, something good came out of it. All right. My murder. Okay. So you know I'm obsessed with fucking infectious diseases and plagues and flu epidemics. Uh-oh. You know I love all this

shit, right? Sure. That's my passion. Illness? Uh-huh. Like end of days shit. Right. Level stuff. Mm-hmm. Okay. And right now the flu, right now in mid-January 2018, the flu is already an epidemic this year, which is fun. I just got a shot. Did you get a flu shot? Oh good. I think it's irritated and I'm gonna die. But anyways. Well, at least you won't have the flu when you die. Exactly. So on that note, because it's so fun, I thought I would do, uh, you know, our good friend Typhoid Mary. Nice. Okay. Here we go. In the summer of 1906, on Long Island's Oyster Bay, have you been there? I haven't. I think they take one of those little trains. A jitney? A jitney to get there. Right? I don't know. 1906, a jitney? Did they have cars? It was made of straw. Don't

know. Maybe a horse jitney. Um, so Long Island's Oyster Bay is the towny playground of New York's rich and famous. Teddy fucking Roosevelt, none other than had his summer white house there. It's all fucking rich people. Sure. And everyone freaks the fuck out when in a span of just one week, six of the 11 people in the home of wealthy banker. Also, he's the banker to the Vanderbilt's even. Charles Warren's household comes down with typhoid fever while they are there on vacation. Typhoid is a bacterial infection. Let me tell you about it. Okay. Due to salmonella typhi. And it's viewed back then as a disease of the crowded slums and tendiments, which we love to talk about. Yes. Um, in New York, it's associated with poverty, the lack of basic sanitation,

immigrants assumed to live in disease-ridden, crowded housing are scapegoats of typhoid. So when a rich fucking family gets it, it's bananas. Typhoid is one of the 20th century's most terrifying killers because an infection could spread through a house before anyone knew what was going on. The first week, uh, the infection seems almost, you know, like just a regular flu. Then there's the fever, some abdominal cramping, but nothing really crazy to show that it's typhoid. And then during the second week, fever goes crazy. The patient becomes delirious. Blood clots form under the skin. The entire abdomen becomes distended. Ooh. The third week, uh, inflammation of the fucking brain and intestinal hemorrhaging, intestinal hemorrhaging. And the

death rate of those infected is anywhere between one in 10 and three in 10. So it's really easily sped, spread by eating or drinking food or water contaminated with the feces of infected persons. Do what? So think about that in the 1900s, early 1900s, you know, when they didn't like wash their hands and stuff and like water wasn't, you know, cleaned and shit. And they all lived in like houses and stuff that were all, you know. Yeah. That, I mean, that was back still when people get up and just pee in a bowl under the bed, right? Right. Just like slosh it back under. Probably throw it out the window. Sure. Is that when they threw stuff out the window? Throw the baby out with them? Probably. I bet it, I bet they did. Let's say yes. But

I like the idea that people would do it in rich houses. Well, they didn't. So that's the thing. It's like they didn't. So it was really weird that this typhoid was an outbreak in a rich house. So people were, that's why on Oyster Bay, they were like, this is a fucking something's wrong. Not here, not in my family, not in my backyard. Right. Not in the Tony playground of the rich and famous. Hell no. No. In 1900, it killed 35,000 Americans. There's no cure. Antibiotics didn't exist and a vaccine was not yet available. Horrifying. So scary. So the Charles Warren's landlord was freaking out that the family outbreak would prevent him from leasing his summer house again. He thought they were burned to the fucking ground because of typhoid. So he was like,

fuck this shit. He hires freelance sanitary engineer George Soper. A freelance sanitary engineer. Dr. George Soper. Okay. Which is like, you sound fun at parties. You sound like you have a made up job. It's called a janitor. No, no. He's like, he investigates sources of typhoid fever outbreaks to determine the cause. Like he's the dude who is like Dr. House. He's fucking house. He's like, come over to the my house, figure out what happened here. Okay. Like why is everyone sick? He's the dude who figured it out. Like what was his name again? George Soper. Dr. George Soper. Okay. So he's like, he's like, what's his name? Detective. Colombo. Sherlock Holmes.

Can you edit this? You couldn't leave that part in. He's like the Colombo, Sherlock Holmes of diseases. Okay. Okay. I was going to say diarrhea. What? Stop it. We don't use that word. No, we do use that word. So everything, so Soper tests everything. He's like super excited about gross stuff, apparently. He tests the house plumbing, local shellfish company, everything comes up negative for typhoid. But then he looks into the cook who had worked for the Warrens weeks before the outbreak and discovered that a female Irish cook who fit the description of a cook who had worked in other households where typhoid had broke out, broke out. No, broken out in the past that she had worked there right before everyone fell ill of typhoid

and had also just cooked for the Warrens. So. I don't know why you'd hire an Irish cook. We can't fucking cook. Apparently she was good at it. It's all pot roasts and like red potatoes. Yeah, but I think that back then they liked the simplicity of it all. Oh man, such a bummer. I mean, that sounds fucking amazing to me. That's all I want is pot roast and red potatoes. Are you serious? With some horseradish. Yes. What about Jell-O with fruit cocktail floating inside of it? Fruit cocktail, yes. Yeah. And then, of course, my grandma's special. What did she put on it? Thousand Island dressing. Yeah, a hard stop. That's an iceberg lettuce. No. That's Irish cooking, my friends. Do you

know what I want? I want iceberg lettuce with Thousand Island and I want Jell-O with fruit cocktail. I don't want them to meet each other. Well, sorry, my grandma says you have to and that's my job to make it happen. And you have to finish it. You do. I mean, fair enough. She forces us to eat spinach as tiny babies and very few of us have ever broken a bone. Spinach. But you fucking twist her ankle all the goddamn time. I roll it, but it don't break. Grandma. Okay. Grandma. He was, okay, so we can't find her because she left after the, after every outbreak began, she fucking later's out of there and doesn't give a forwarding address. Soper learns of an active outbreak in a penthouse on Park Avenue where two of the household

servants were hospitalized and the young daughter of the family had died of typhoid. Oh, no. And she, and he discovers, Soper discovers that the family cook was the same woman who had cooked for the other families. It's 40-year-old Irish immigrant, Mary Malin. Oh, Mary, wash your hands, Mary. There we go. What are you doing, Mary? Well, what does she say? And she says, I just need to stir the soup with my hand real quick. I can't do it. No, you're going to do this whole fucking story. We need it. Okay. Soper starts stalking Mary Malin and tells her, and he tells her she's transmitting disease and death by her job. But he sounds very bad at telling people things and explaining in a calm, self-possessed

manner to an Irish immigrant, probably because he had some prejudices against Irish people. So do you think he was too nervous to tell her or he was screaming at her? I think he was screaming in her face this thing of transmitting disease and death. And she's this Irish immigrant who's like, what are you talking about? Ah. So he didn't explain to her how she, as a woman who was perfectly healthy, could be infecting others with typhoid. He attempted to get, and then he goes on to attempt to get samples of Mary's feces, urine and blood, I think just by yelling in her face, then he needs samples of her feces, urine and blood.

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, man, get away from me. Yeah. Not surprisingly, this just pissed Mary off. And one time she chased him away with a large kitchen fork when he tried to come get her feces. Get out of here. I don't know. That's my Irish. Get out of here. Get out of the kitchen now. You always have to start way high and then go down really low. Okay. Since Mary refused to give samples, he decided to compile a five-year history of her employment. He found that of the eight families that had hired Mary Malin as a cook, members of seven of those families claimed to have contracted typhoid fever, even though Mary had never shown signs of the ailment. And with this, SOPER becomes the first author to describe

a healthy carrier of salmonella typhi in the United States. So the person who can carry it never get ill by it, but pass it on to other people. So she's basically immune to this thing she has. But she has it and is giving it to everybody else. And part of her argument is like, well, I'm fucking fine. It can't be me giving it to anyone. Right. Also, and let me use my whole arm as a starting spoon. Just want to stir this fucking stew. I just want to touch the bottom of the pan. Right. With my fingernail. Let me put this under my fingernails and put it into the stew.

What's the big deal? What is the problem? My fingernail ladle. Right. Without washing my hands. Okay. Let me tell you about Mary. Mary Malin was born in September of 1869 in Cooks County, Cookston, County Tyrone. Cookston, let's call it. A small village in the north of Ireland that was among one of Ireland's poorest areas. She immigrated to the United States in 1883 at the age of 15. Her aunt and uncle who she had been living with died. So she was living in

swallowed housing in the Lower East Side, fending for herself. She found work as a domestic servant and apparently her proclensity in the kitchen and let her to be a cook. So she was somewhat good. For what in the kitchen? I don't know. I've copied and pasted a word that I never use. Proclensity. Pro-pensity? Clensity.

Proclensity. That's a word. I don't think it is. Oh shit. Hold on. I refuse. I copied and pasted it. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. That sounded so good and I was gonna. It kind of is like a, like the combination of propensity and declension, but I'm almost positive. When your, your search for clensity did not match any search stuck with her propensity. Is that right?

Well, I'm never copying and pasting from Wikipedia again. The grammar is odd. So it's not, there's no. Yeah, there's no, it's propensity or that's like it, the correction, the correct. Oh yeah. Maybe they just. The correct word is propensity. Fuck. All right. I'm not adding that out because this is who I am. Look.

I'm in a fucking show. No. Sometimes we get words wrong. It's okay. My proclinston in the kitchen. It sounds like proclinston sounds like a, like for men who are losing their hair. Yeah. Like a shampoo. Take mint proclinston every night. Right. Okay. In 1900, she worked in Mammaronic, New York.

Heard of it? Nope. Where within two weeks of her employment, residents developed typhoid fever in 1901. She moved to Manhattan where members of the family whom she worked for developed fevers in diarrhea. That's a bummer to have at the same time. Yeah. That's horrible. You don't know what's happening and you have diarrhea.

Right. Jesus. The laundress died there. Oh no. Whose name they don't mention anywhere, which is like, listen, she's someone too. That's right. And then Mary Mellon goes on to work for a lawyer. She left after seven of the eight people and that household became ill.

She fucking laders. Why did she keep leaving though? I don't know. She thinks she's so innocent. Well, it's so, it's hard to tell because it's like, did she leave because everyone got sick and so the house stood still and they didn't need anyone? Or what did she know? Isn't that one you need help the most?

That's true. Chicken soup doesn't cook itself. Yeah, that's right. So, chicken soup doesn't use its own arms to stir itself. Jesus Christ. Okay. Chicken soup can't stir itself without an arm and it can't walk upstairs. Exactly.

So, okay, so then in 1906, she goes to Oyster Bay and within two weeks, 10 of the 11 family members are hospitalized with typhoid. Changes job again. Same thing happens. Cooks for the war and same thing happens. Blah, blah, blah. Okay. Doctors theorize that Mary Mellon likely passed typhoid germs by failing to vigorously scrub

her hands before handling food. Usually, the elevated temperatures of cooking food would have killed all the germs and bacteria and shit, but then they found out that Mary Mellon's like most popular dish. Her specialty? Her specialty was ice cream that she cut up raw peaches into and froze so nothing had gotten cooked. Oh. Can you imagine those wet fucking peaches with her little like cutting knife and all

the nail under her nail stuff? As she's cutting peaches, she's also cutting a little bit of her finger along with it. Oh, God. She had a real poor clencity for cutting up her own flesh. I can't believe I got that word. Okay, the New York City Health Department finally, they try to get her to chill the fuck out and she won't. Finally, they send physician.

She won't. She's like, fuck you and everyone must cook. She's like an angry, an angry woman. She had to fight for her like her life livelihood. She didn't have anybody. Nobody. It reminds so I just started watching Alias Grace, which you had talked about liking and it reminds me of like she came over on a ship and that fucking in that nature of absolute

bullshit and she's like, fuck you. I'm working to like live my own life. I mean, it's the ship journey alone is so upsetting for most people coming to this country. Traumatizing. Just horrifying. And then they show up and then it's like, I hope you have a job. Yeah, good luck with that. Yeah.

Also, you don't wash your hands enough. Yeah, that's right. What are you talking about? You know what that reminds me of real quick? Yeah. When I lived in Scotland, there was a commercial that was on like UK TV and it was, are you a washer or a walker and it was pretend camera, like hidden camera in a bathroom to see if people walked up, checked their face and walked away or washed their hands and walked away.

And since that commercial, I think before that I was very like, who cares one way or the other? I know if I need to wash my hands or not. Since that commercial, I've washed my hands every single time. You just can't trust doorknobs. You just can't trust door handles. You just should wash your hands as much as possible. And I do. I mean, don't go out of your fucking mind.

And I do. But like, do your best. Don't be a walker. That's all I'm saying. My dad, every, he won't sit down. It will go to lunch anywhere. He had just gotten out of his car. He hasn't touched anything.

He won't. He's kind of has OCD though, but he'll go wash his hands before like every time you can't even start talking to him. Oh, wow. He'll go wash his hands. I wonder if that's like if his parents were really strict about that, like before eating. Yeah, maybe.

It's a good idea. Every once in a while, I'll look at my hands, especially when I'm wearing cheap jeans. Oh, no. There's nothing worse than having dirty hands as an adult at like a meal. The only worse than like putting a food thing into your mouth and being like, when was the last time I washed my hands? That's my fucking thing of like, and then there's only so many times you can go,

well, I'm strengthening my immune system. Most of the time you're not. You're just putting someone else's fucking urine hands. In your fucking mouth and from the doorknob. We'd all have much stronger immune systems if that really was. Right. I have a bit of an OCD about washing hands. Well, you're Marty's daughter.

I'm Marty's daughter. Throwing through a hard stark doesn't let her hands. Doesn't mess. Does not mess. Okay. So New York City Health Department sends in physician Sarah Josephine Baker to talk to Mary. So. The singer.

Yeah, right. Almost. That'd be amazing. And night she was this amazing dancer. Yeah. Hey, I'm so gross. That's not good. Baker said that by the time she was she said quote by that time she was convinced that the law was

only persecuting her when she had done nothing wrong. So Mary was like hardcore fuck you. Yeah. We're like that. Yeah. Bakers. So this chick Sarah Josephine Baker her own father and brother had died of typhoid when she was young. And so she had felt pressure to support her mother and sister financially.

So at 16 years old she decided on a career in medicine. Wow. And this and this is like the early 1900s. The late 1800s. This she is a badass mother fucker in her own right and people should fucking study her etc. for feminist reasons. She's fucking awesome. So she goes to find Mary Mallon and with her help the New York City Health Department

takes Mary into custody in 1907 and places her into forced confinement inside a bungalow on 16 acre North Brother Island off the Bronx shore. So if you live in had lived in Manhattan or been in Manhattan you see a fucking island over there like off the shore that you can like see. It's almost like Alcatraz in San Francisco. Right. So all the only thing only companion she has and tell me if this doesn't sound amazing. She's in confinement.

All she has is a fox terrier. And you're like living the life. Can I please. So wait I think I'm in that confinement right now. You put yourself in Mary Mallon's fucking confinement. We're all all Irish women are doomed to live the life of Mary Mallon. It just repeats itself. Damn it.

Okay. So they on this Brother Island was the Riverside Hospital which is where she's at. It's founded in the 1850s as a smallpox hospital to treat and isolate victims of that disease. So they just fucking put them on this tiny island outside of Manhattan and you can see Manhattan and you're like oh well I want that and they're like no you're sick. Too bad. It eventually expands to other quarantineable diseases like leprosy and venereal diseases. So they just like later people onto that island.

Did they really? Yeah. So you get you get some venereal disease and then you put the ghosts. So like ghosts stay here and tell you. Oh in the same room with all the other people with venereal diseases. Yeah that sounds like a party. I mean those are the people that party. Yeah.

A lot of great personalities in that room I bet. I mean I'm sure. Okay with her forced confinement Mary, Mallon, everyone the media goes fucking nuts because this woman has been spreading this disease and killing people with it. So media goes nuts eventually in 1908 in the Journal of American Medical Association. She is nicknamed Typhoid Mary. That's where she gets her name. So the professionals really came in to shit on her.

Yeah they were doing top notch journalism. All right. Good job everybody. So it turns out Mary Mallon is immune to the disease herself. She's the first person in the United States identified as an asymptomatic carrier of the pathogen which is pretty fucking cool. Well in custody Mary Mallon, Typhoid Mary let's call her admits to poor hygiene. She's like yeah what other motherfuckers say it in Irish.

I can't say. That was on you to say. Who cares? Jesus Mary Joseph there's other things to worry about. Exactly. There's people starving in my country. She said she did not understand the purpose of hand washing because she did not pose a risk. Girl you're the cook.

You're the cook. You pose a risk. It doesn't matter how healthy you are. They authorities are like let's get rid of your gallbladder because that's where they believe the typhoid bacteria resided and she was like fuck no fuck you. I don't even have the disease and she was unwilling to see working as a cook too. So like we'll let you go. Just don't work as a cook and she's like nope.

I know I won't wash my hands. Go fuck yourself. Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight Mary. Fight. We're so angry it doesn't make sense. Irish women, Irish women. Fight, fight, fight and then a herky. Herky.

She is forced to give 163 samples of various bodily substances to the doctors there. 120 of which tested positive for the bacteria. She was teeming with this disease. To the to the hilt. To the gills. To the gills. To the gills. So Mary stays there for three years until tests results from a private laboratory.

Yes I said that. Came up negative for typhoid. And with this information in 1909 Mary sues the health department for her freedom but everyone's like where did she get the money to sue the health department and then and then it's like a secret thing that maybe William Randolph Hearst was like well giving the money if you give me like an interview so like he was like springing people so genius yeah so smart but the New York Supreme Court's like go fuck yourself no. But then in 1910 there's a new health commissioner he lets her go if she promises

never to work as a cook again and she's like okay great. She's like fine I didn't like that much anyway. Yeah so in February of 1910 uh Mary agreed that she was quote prepared to change her occupation and would give assurance by affidavit that she would upon her release take such hygienic precautions as would protect those with whom she came in contact from infection. Meaning wash your fucking hands. I'll wash my fucking hands. No I just I felt like I wanted to defend but there's like it's an indefensible.

Go ahead eat and I can't. Some people don't think it some people think what that her being locked up is indefensible. No she killed a ton of people because she refused to wash she it's like she wouldn't give in anything where it's like okay well if you're the cook you have to admit hand washing is kind of key I realize it was that was kind of a new idea back then but still. Well the thing is so she thought they were all to get her all this shit you're like decades later they're like well if she had typhoid her whole life maybe it fucked her brain up a little bit and she was paranoid and crazy.

Oh yeah but wait it gets worse. Okay. Okay so they let her out they lose track of her goodbye. Bad idea cut to five years later in 1915 a typhoid outbreak happens at Manhattan's Sloan maternity hospital struck 25 workers and killed two of those workers when Soper our friend George Sopers back he looks into the outbreak and he's like this looks fucking familiar. Oh no. Traces it back to the cook who's an Irish woman named Mary Brown this time she changed her name.

She found a good man. Nope she changed her name so she could become a cook like she was doing it now now she's responsible for it. Now she's being a dick. You know what I mean yeah now it's criminal I think it's Mary Mountain blah blah blah turns out she changed her name and during her years of release she had cooked in hotels restaurants and institutions. Wow.

So she was like she'd gone they'd given her a job as a laundress you make no fucking money it's really hard work. Doesn't smell good. Doesn't smell good she was like fuck this shit and went to cook. Wherever she worked there were outbreaks of typhoid however she changed job so frequently so she had eluded the blame she's captured and again can find a North Brother Island where she continued to refuse to acknowledge that she had any connection between herself and the typhoid cases.

Well at that point it's so stacked up against her that she might as well just do that because she's so guilty that the second she breaks it's over. Yeah exactly so after the second apprehension she spends the next 23 years of her life as a prisoner in forced isolation hundreds if not thousands of asymptomatic carriers who had been identified were allowed to walk the streets of New York freely but typhoid Mary lived alone in exile partly due because the public were fucking pissed at her because she wouldn't stay in the kitchen like if she had just not gone back to cooking. Yes that's second time around exactly she I mean I didn't it's sad that she lived in isolation

but why are you being so stubborn? Yeah calm down. Karen? Uh-oh oh Karen's having pain in my face. My face just starts to fall apart. I don't want to do it it just so comes out of me. Your typhoid tears just started running out of your face. The devil inside me he's so mad.

Stay in the kitchen on November 11 1938 Mary Mallon dies of pneumonia at age 69 still in captivity an autopsy found evidence of live typhoid typhoid bacteria in her gallbladder so they were right. Yeah they were right. Her bodies cremated and her ashes were buried at St. Raymond's cemetery in the Bronx. So Mary Mallon uh it's thought that she infected 51 people and three of those illnesses resulted in death and that's based on uh George Soper's you know looking into it but she she used so many aliases that it's thought that she the true death toll could have been way fucking higher.

Some estimated that she made have caused 50 fatalities which I just saw that in a random article so I don't know if that's even true historians say she contaminated at least 122 people and killed five which sounds a little more likely. So crazy though. Yeah so throughout the 20th century uh typhoid fever steadily declines due to introduction of vaccinations and improvements in public sanitation and hygiene aka wash your fucking hands and today typhoid fever is considered a rare condition among developed countries rate is approximately five cases per million per year.

Uh as your fucking brother Island and Riverside Hospital real quick this fucking Island of Disease off the Manhattan sounds amazing right sounds amazing. The island has been abandoned since 1963 after it was a detention it was last a detention facility for juvenile drug offenders in 1963. How badly do you wish you could go and just sit on the wall and like stare at people there. You know there's some black light posters in that building that you know there's some people out there who have stories of like. They were like yeah because you know my mom working in the mental she worked at a hospital

called Langley Porter in San Francisco it's up on the hill yeah and um and people in the 60s used to send their kids they got caught smoking pot one time no they sent their kids to the mental hospital so she said there were in this in the like mid to late 60s all these kids there was like an influx of kids who were like they're incorrigible in their drug addicts where they had only done like smoked one joint or whatever we're saying no to things exactly it was like they were housed with people who are legitimately in need of mental mental health issues and I'm sure those kids were like well I'm never doing anything bad again yes the shit that they saw like yeah or they were like I don't know she just said it was really sad and bummed her out a lot

it's clearly complicated yeah so these kids got sent there in 1963 finally it closed it's now uninhabited and designated as a bird sanctuary but wait it's illegal for anyone to go on the island without permission from the city all the buildings though still fucking stand and these photographers sometimes go on there and take photos and you can see a bunch of the photos we should put them up on instagram of these gorgeous like brick buildings that are falling in a disrepair and you can see the rooms where Mary Mallon was fucking housed and you can see the typhoid wing and you can see the fucking crematorium and it's like it's insanely gorgeous I am asking any murderer who works for the city of Manhattan to please let me and Karen come see

the fucking island come and get a disease of our own for ourselves and since it's like under you know under watch and you it's really hard to get on there everything is still there so like people haven't graffitied and people haven't stolen shit from the island that's amazing it's you need to see the photos everything is covered in wildlife it's gorgeous oh i want to see that it's amazing um buh buh buh buh buh it sounds like the island they threatened to send or that they promised to send dr lector to in silence the lambs that ends up to be that they were like fakesies when she recites that thing you are allowed to walk on the beach every day whatever i want to read that it's so good let's do it again and you will be allowed one you will be allowed one

walk one day a year well you can walk freely on the beach right with armed guards or whatever snipers oh god i don't know if she didn't know it was fake either i know my friend um my friend amy who you met when we were in uh um wisconsin uh-huh she she has son's lambs memorized i've watched it with her and she'll just say the line real quick before it's my favorite thing in the world i love it you will be allowed to walk she'd be able to do that speech right off the right off the dome it's so good i love all these domes um okay it's illegal blah blah blah uh but you could still see them the building the room where typhoid mary spent the last 23 years of her life what's she doing there oh man she was bummed but it's sound it's just like there's varying accounts

where it's like some say she was like actually helping out there and like a maid and some say that she was just like in seclusion and they abandoned her and used her as like a look at typhoid mary you know when people would come to the island yeah that kind of thing so you don't really know i hope there was a fox terrier i hope so yeah and then uh i also want to mention there's a podcast if you're into this shit like i am there's a podcast that's kind of new it's hosted by two these two young ladies who are grad students in disease ecology it's called this podcast will kill you and it's just about infectious diseases from history and every episode is that and these these two girls are named they're both named erin are like it's just an awesome podcast this

podcast right yeah so this podcast will kill you love it i like to imagine that typhoid mary sat in seclusion in her room on that island and fantasized of all the different things she'd like to put her hand in so then like she'd be like corn chowder or whatever and then she's like mashed potatoes and then both the fantasy is just like both bare arms go all the way and then like she cleans her fingernails in the chowder yes i wonder if she like requested like cooking magazines and like red recipes and was like stick stick your arm completely in she'd be like this looks good but you know it needs my arm my arm my fingernail clippings and it's not funny people it's it's disgusting it's terrible but isn't that amazing it's it's incredible also the idea this did you

watch the nick when it was on yeah and they have an uh there's an episode involving her i watched the little the little um scene where they they and yes where they confront her yeah yeah it's that was such a good show and they did that around she was so good she was great but they did that where they would take those things out of history and be like yeah this is what where you don't have any sense like things before modern medicine and modern stuff it's just the weirdest idea where they be like somebody coming in they'd be like well we tried to stick a tube in their arm and then they died like the end or it's just it was so crazy precarious and the nick is such a great show i love that yeah if you're into that kind of thing you should definitely watch it it was great also if you've

ever taken cocaine to the point where it was a problem for you i warn trigger warning huge cocaine trigger warning for the nick opium too like i could be a doctor a new coke all the time no maybe you're into opium dens too trigger warning trigger warning if you love to lay back with a bunch of people dressed in a traditional chinese garb yeah yeah then this will be hard for you to get through it's gonna make you nuts but if you love surgery without gloves or anesthesia this is the show for you what a show or clivoin right um that was great thank you that was fun i love to learn i love i love teaching no i love saying words wrong i love i love to learn i love to lie i love to make up new words i love to just have fun with it just say shit that and you know

don't have any uh for clint city for caring i mean i have a real poor clint city to just say what i want and i think we all do there's a freedom in that in these perclin cities we all have in this perclinus time there's a freedom it's so the funniest thing about typhoid marie is she um she had a real problem with for clint's clenseliness no i love it it was a fucking valiant effort i tried but you could see me you can see me making that u-turn for miles away would you have made that attempt two years ago before this podcast absolutely no not at all i mean i'm real biased against puns as you know and so i applaud you and uh no i think it's the effect that we're that you have on my life i'm i'm making you stupider you're breaking down those pun walls

i am stupidering you hard you know real hard uh what makes you happy uh let's see falling down and snapping my ankle loudly in front of my neighbors oh no i kind of have one yeah go ahead okay the thing that makes me happy this week is this book that i'm listening to thank you audible uh it's sci-fi fantasy and it's one of those books that makes me that someone thought of this narrative and thought of this like uh you know idea makes me happy that humans that certain humans exist you know it's like so fucking joyous that like people can think of these things and write these books and it's gorgeous and i love it it's called the chill it's called children of time by adrian uh tchaikovsky and it's sci-fi fantasy the book is really fun to listen

to it's fucking weird as shit it's like post-human space stuff with their spiders i've never in my life thought i would ever have sympathy to spiders but i do it's like such a good book and it's making me really happy to exist wow that's a lot of like they're like uh uh hit checkers guide to the galaxy you know like that that's the last book that's done that for me which has made me like so happy that douglas adams existed and i get to live here big theories and thoughts and feelings yeah i'm like wow someone thought of that our brains are bigger than you know in these proclincy times where everything feels kind of proclincy right and i know i'm not going to write that fucking book so i appreciate that adrian tchaikovsky has yeah so that really sat down and

could pound it out yeah so that's making me happy agreed agreed what's yours okay mine is this is it this was a uh tweet that i received two days ago you did too um from a woman named molly on uh hold on oh sorry haunted train that's so fucking loud it's me chair neck on twitter and she wrote to us and said don't be alarmed if there's a body down there in quotes and then the the headline of the article that she sent it sent us says sinkhole reveals hidden room below family's garage and then there is a picture of shelving that they can see through the hole and on the shelf there's toys but it's also all dark and creepy and it's like this article so it happened in Idaho falls Idaho this family apparently when they like there's like an inch of cement yeah

and then the the sinkhole happened and basically there had been an hidden room underneath their house and it's in a place where there's normally not sellers right so they're like they think it's possible that could have been like a bomb shelter but probably not yeah and a bunch of stuff that's down there has been down there for like 40 or 50 years that is that how i couldn't find how long it was it's like 40 50 years i don't think that they were like letters and shit yes um but they that's the crazy let me see if i can get a year they oh um the home was built in the 50s and it was built as a basement home then someone came in the 70s and remodeled it and added the second story so i bet in the 70s someone put it down there yeah but they say it's definitely not a bomb shelter

and that it's sketchy and the insurance provider and the engineer are the ones that said don't be alarmed if you find a body down there that's amazing um don't be alarmed if you find a body because they're basically going down there looking through it it's it's just like that picture of the old kind of water moldy letters and stuff it's just the creepiest story of all time so i'm very as i think you know but i i'm not sure if everybody knows but i'm obsessed with sinkholes sinkholes are truly my passion anytime i was i was never more livid remember the sinkhole that came up off of laurel canyon yeah i was up in petaluma and i saw it on the news and i was livid because you couldn't go meet it in person yeah couldn't go on meet and greet i would have walked

right down there i would have paid top dollar for that meet and greet and then like hi where did you come from what's your deal what's happening down there is it a are you a hidden river oh or are you something entirely different so amazing yeah sinkhole and hidden room come on my favorite sinkhole that's amazing there's there's a double z for you it's a sinkhole and a hidden room and because the best part about usually sinkholes fill back up with water because that's why they're there in the first place it's like the water table got too close blotty blah look at you well i'm it's made up but um but it's a water involved yeah that's why sure uh it's erosion but it's underneath okay anyhow there's no water in this in that cellar it's like they can go down and look into it

i know it's not like it got flooded immediately or filled a silt no i want to go i want to go down there let's go it's like an amusement park let's go idaho is not that far away um thanks for listening everyone yeah that was a fun one yeah there's all kinds of crazy shit in that one take it run with it do your thing do a fucking her key at the end of it do a her key i'm if it's please if you're going to correct me on the her key positioning don't do it uh you have to be a professional cheerleader that's i'll only take emails from professional cheerleader and you have to send a video of you doing a herk we need the correct herk and then we'll play the audio of the visual of the video and breaking your back her key thanks for listening friends stay sexy

and don't get murdered goodbye elvis you want a cookie one cookie oh there's a little one