My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 106 - Courage Shoulders

Episode Date: February 1, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the murder of Theresa Katherine Foster and killer Luigi Longhi.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello. Hi. And welcome to my favorite murder. The podcast that's asking everyone a question. That it refuses to answer. It refuses to answer or acknowledge. Right. It just, it makes you ask the question and it walks away quickly. Yeah. And then it's like quick asking me so many questions, mom. Like you open this conversation, dad. With a question. What's happening?

And then you respond with a question of like, what's wrong with me? Oh, you put it back on me? Yeah. Oh, is that what you do? Yeah. And just at the beginning of the conversation? Right. I didn't even, I was here eating cereal. Yeah. This, I was loudly eating sugar corn pops. Right. Compulsively. What are you? Chocolate milk. Why do you have to come into my line? Whip chocolate milk.

As with chocolate milk in it. Have you done that before? No, but someone should. That sounds insane. It does. It's your new Mcnuggettini. But I used to put spoonfuls of sugar on like, sugar cereal?

No. Not like on non-sugar cereal. Yes. Which is disgusting. And it's the same. Oh, I know. Like, Rice Krispies with like four teaspoons of sugar. And then the bottom is just like this sludgy sugar, crunchy milk mess. And then suddenly cartoons are more beautiful. Yeah. Everything's more beautiful.

Everything's so much more beautiful. Except for your teeth hurt. Yeah. They eventually fall out. Um, what's going on? Hi. How are you? I'm really good. I'm doing really good. I feel high energy. I'm eating a lot of ginseng. Just chewing on ginseng.

Can I kick it off with this? I'm going against all former models of this show. Okay. Skippers, pay attention. I'm going to do a hometown murder right now. Okay. Of interest. Okay.

It was pulled by Stephen. For Stephen. About Stephen. Great. Let's do it. Not in my backyard, not with my Stephen. Okay. The subject line is BTK taught my husband how to tie knots. Oh, my God. Oh, no. One of those B,

the one of those letters is a knot. You know the B part? Bind. Yeah. He was kind of good at it. Let's talk, let's hear about it. I mean, if anyone's going to teach you. Hi ladies.

Quick hometown murder for you. So my husband scout master was the BTK killer. And then she writes Dennis Radar. Now I don't mean to make fun of you because I'm sure you're a true murderer, but and maybe you're, you're, uh, you're, what do you call autocorrect made it say radar. But to read it as Dennis Radar makes me laugh.

It sounds like it's like, he's like one of the bosses and the Jetsons or something to me. It sounds like a new wave, like a new wave name, like you're in a band and you change her last name to sound cool in the new wave. Have you seen that really cute bass player, Dennis Radar? Gross. Sorry.

Anyway, I'll say radar for now. So he grew up only a few houses away from the radar family outside Wichita, Kansas. Also attending school with his children. Radar would take my husband scout troop overnight to on overnight camping trips where he would often leave at some point with an excuse to get supplies, et cetera.

What? Yeah. You just have to nip off for supplies in the dead of night. In hindsight, he was using the camping trips as an alibi for, quote, scouting future murder missions. No pun intended snort and possible murders. At the time the murders were happening, it was thought the BTK was focusing on single mother households.

Well, I didn't know that. And I did BTK, which was my, what my husband's family was. So this was particularly disconcerting when the very loud and barky family dog went missing from the backyard a couple weeks before someone broke into their home, leaving behind a pair of binoculars and stealing nothing. No.

Happy to report that his sisters and mother are all alive and healthy to this day. Can't say the name for the dog, which was never found. Oh, that's, oh, can't say the same for the dog. Or the name. I thought she was trying to say like, do not speak of him. What if his name was radar? This whole, he was named after Radar O'Reilly from MASH.

Okay. But this was also interesting, even though it's a second paragraph. One of the last super random things about BTK, his house went up for auction a couple years ago with the proceeds going to his family. The woman who bought the house was an extriper and strip club owner. She did an amazing thing. She had the fucking house torn down.

She said that she wanted Radar's wife to have the money to start a new life. To this day, it's an empty vacant lot in the middle of the block. Please feel free to see the attached before and after pics that her husband shot. When we first started dating, he had this picture of a house framed and I was always like, why does he have this artsy picture of this ugly ass house in his cool Brooklyn apartment?

After I found out what it was, he put a ring on it. That fucking thing went into storage. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. Ghost, ghost stripper lady go. Go lady. I have one, two, if we're doing, it's not a hometown,

but it's a story. It's called My Grandfather Hunted the Zodiac Killer. Interested and treat. Okay. Hello, and this is all one word. Karen, Georgia, Steven, Vince, Elvis, Dottie, Mimi, Karen, I forgot your dog's name. I'm so sorry, but hello, doggies.

Okay, so basically she heard this stuff, so she wanted to let us know. My grandfather is David Toshi. Dave Toshi, yes. Dave Toshi. Yeah. So funny, I was on the way home from our trip, our Nashville show on that plane.

I was watching Zodiac, which is so good and fucking. Okay, so here's what happens. He was in the SPD, SPFD, SFPB for years, and an inspector on the Zodiac case. Growing up, he would tell my sisters and I stories about working the case, the crime scenes he was called to, and most importantly, all the squirrels

in Arthur Lee Allen's freezer. He always talked about the squirrels. Over the years, reporters got our relatives phone numbers and addresses, and we either call or show up to our houses, wanting to talk to my grandpa about the case. On the rare occasion he was contacted directly, he would get pretty pissed and never gave him an interview. This also included numerous attempts from Gray Smith.

Who's that? Robert Gray Smith is the guy that wrote the Zodiac book, The Movies Based On, and he's that illustrator that Jake Gyllenhaal plays. You are so smart. Thank you. Wow, okay. And it's my favorite movie.

Understandable. I'd be pretty fucking tired of talking about it too, but when the movie started shooting, he was happy to be an advisor on set and got a huge kick out of hanging out with Mark Ruffalo. I would too. Oh, I mean, Jesus. Come on.

Who wanted to perfect my grandpa's mannerisms and such. Ruffalo totally nailed it, and this is so funny because I was like, what's this fucking animal cracker bullshit? It looks so stupid. I'm like, why do they have to add this? But then she says, right down to the way he spoke, the animal cracker's in the glove box

and taking the tomatoes off of his sandwich. Gramps was pretty jazzed to be given the recognition, and the rest of us, as his family were happy, he was portrayed in a positive light rather than the inspector who couldn't crack the case for the sake of a high-grossing blockbuster. So she goes on to say that her grandpa's 68. He is not in the best of health anymore,

and this was written a while ago. So this was written at Christmas. She had just spent Christmas with him. Every time I visit, I never know who it will be the last time I see him, but he's a badass and keeps hanging on. So here's a couple of pictures. And then she wrote us another letter

just the other day that he had passed away. Yeah. So a fucking RIP and big ups to grandpa for being a badass, motherfucker. Well, he has been portrayed in films twice now, which is like how much of a badass do you have to be? Yeah. To be just, you're in several films in Hollywood.

People play. Mark Ruffalo played you? Come on, those fucking bow ties. Love that movie. I'm uncomfortable with the fact that I find him darling and cute and wonderful and have a crush on him, but he looks like my uncle, and it creeps me out.

Oh. Remember my uncle who came to our show? Yes. He used to be like a fucking, you know, what's his name? The detective. Colombo, looking detective, who was in like an episode of Colombo too.

I was going to say Inspector Clouseau because I didn't know what we were doing. Inspector Gadget. I didn't realize it was a lookalike thing. I was, my friend Laura used to live up behind the gelsons off Franklin, and she had like a barbecue one afternoon. And there was a guy there that I was like, God, that guy's so cute.

And it was after that first big movie. The one. He was in with the fucking people. Oh, no. You can count on me. That's right. You can count on me. We didn't remember because we've never said that to anyone.

And they absolutely can't. And they will not. And they know it. And if they think they should, I'll ask some questions. It's so foreign. And they didn't. It's such a foreign phrase.

It is. Oh, one other thing I wanted to say. I started watching this new show on Netflix. That is so fucking good. It's called Wormwood. Oh, yeah. Do you know about it? Yeah.

Okay. So it's about, it's Aero Morris's. It's like a, okay, it's a docudrama. So it's like, have you watched it? I watched the first two or three. No, no, no, like part of the first episode. Okay. It's so fucking good.

It's really, it's about this fucking CIA employee who in 1953 jumped out of a window of a New York City hotel, ruled it a suicide. Turns out he was being tested on from MKUltra with LSD, jumped out the window. And it's the movie is about, or the whatever movie is about, his son trying to fucking figure out what happened. It's incredible. And like all the actors are so good in it.

Fucking Peter Sardsguard. So good. And Arce, you know how much we love Sardsguard. We love all the Sardsguards. All the names. Tim Blake, Neil Nelson, that great actor, Bob Balaban. Bob Balaban. Bob Balaban.

It's fucking really, it's really good. That's really awesome. I could just, you know what it was, maybe we talked about this in person, but there's so John Ronson, my new favorite author, person, audio book, narrator. He has a story and I think it's in the Men Who Stare at Goats, because there's the MKUltras in there about, he went and met that guy and learned all about that story. And within that story, after the dad died, like a couple before the mom died,

him and his brother went on a bike trip across the United States. As like, I think a 12 and a 14 year old, they rode their bikes literally across the United States. And it was in the paper and stuff and it's super crazy. Like, and when you hear it in the audio book, it's like, this can't be real. And they did. It's so like, exactly what you're like. I knew the government was like this and did this shit. I knew it.

Yeah. And now we get to know it, you know? So nuts. Oh, I've watched, have you started watching The Alienist? Yeah. I love it. It's good. It's very true.

You don't love it. It's just like, I read the book and loved it and have an idea in my head of what it looks like and what it's like. And but it does seem very true to the book. I get that though. You make a movie in your head when you, especially when you love a book. Yeah. I'm like, I'm enjoying it so far.

I was tripping out last night on the, how brilliant the opening credits are, because they basically, they're running the building of New York backwards. I love that. It's such a cool, it's the coolest way to set that tone. And then you're just back so far that like, her working at the police department is a huge deal in and of itself. I mean, the hugest deal is the shoulders on her dresses that are like past the top of her head.

Like fucking shoulder pads. No, this is like shoulder towers. That's where all her weapons are. That's where her a jar of arsenic is. That's where she keeps her courage. That's right. When she can tap into it. It's like, like with the hats that you have that has beer on it with a straw.

And you need, when you need to sip a beer. It's a courage shoulder. It's courage shoulders. Yeah. How does she take in the courage? I don't know, through her nipples? Listen. And scene.

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I'm Candice DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths, and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico,

answer some killer trivia, and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Should we? Who's first this week? Who went first at the last episode? Last, oh, like, no. The episode People Have Heard. Yes. I'm going to leave that one to Steve. Karen went first last time. Yeah, Karen did. Krista Worthington last.

Okay. All right, so I'm first. This is the story of the murder of Teresa Catherine Foster, and I got a ton of my information from a really great article from 2011. I don't even need to say the whole thing. From an online magazine called Westward, and it's called The Case of the Kidnapped Co-ed, Ellen Pendergrast wrote it. Here we go. 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, November 11th, we're in 1948. All right, here we are.

12 miles south of Boulder, Colorado, two rabbit hunters come across the body of a young woman face down half bearing the snow beside a frozen stream. She's dead, obviously. She appeared to have been dumped there from the bridge that was 15 feet above along Highway 93. Her jacket was tightly wound around her neck, and her sweater was pulled up. Her bra was still on, but below the waist, she only had on her loafers and bobby socks, so she had been, quote, battered almost beyond recognition, as one reporter put it. And to the rabbit hunters, it was obvious who she was, because the newspapers had been in a crazy frenzy with the missing co-ed,

who had disappeared two nights earlier. So Teresa Catherine Foster was an 18-year-old engineering student at the University of Colorado and had been walking home around 10 p.m. the night she disappeared from a rosary meeting on the Boulder campus. She had been heading downtown well at Main Street towards the house of a professor at the college and his family where she lived in exchange for chores. So like the professor did it, right? That's what, but it's not true. Okay. Don't go down that path. Don't worry about him. I didn't do it.

Put that card aside in this game of clue. Yes, not necessary. Okay. So the next morning the family was like, she's not here. This is very much not like her. Where could she be? She's not the type to stay out all night, so they call the police. So Teresa is known as a dependable girl. She's super self-sufficient. She was the ninth of 11 kids who had grown up on a farm outside Greenlea, Colorado. She milked cows. She hunted. She's an honor student.

She didn't swear or smoke. She was religious and had a high school sweetheart, even though she was kind of boy shy. So she was a really typical girl, not the kind of person to run away with someone or to get into any trouble. So the day after her disappearance, 20 miles from where her body was found the next day. So her body hadn't been found yet. The local farmer had found a bloody crime scene at the local Lovers Lane. So he goes to Lovers Lane. He says that there's so much blood in a 10 foot area along the road that he thought someone had been had slaughtered one of his calves initially.

But there were bits of hair and scalp tissue, a broken grip of a 45 automatic and a ring and white scarf identified as belonging to Teresa. And it showed that she had put up a fight. But after her body was found the next day, her autopsy showed she had been raped, bludgeoned and strangled. And it was the first homicide in 72 year history of the university. And the first murder in Boulder in nine years. Knowing the story would be big, the editors of the Denver Post freaked the fuck out and they start their own massive investigation on their own in a way that you can only get away with in like 1948. And they ultimately put the case and the eventual trial of the suspect at risk by the means of

what's it called? Newspapering this story. Investigating. Investigating and not advertising. What's the word? Promoting. Yeah, telling the story. You know. Telling? Yes.

Telling. Like what I'm doing. Got it. So this man named Palmer Hoyt is the editor and publisher of the post, the Denver Post. He's a former writer, a pulp detective story. So he's fucking big on this murder mystery story. He launches a campaign to catch Teresa's killer. So at the time it was normal for newspapers to hire quote experts to help cover murder trials. They'd get an astrologer to prepare the killer's horoscope. Isn't that insane?

It's 48. God, that seems late to be doing stuff like that. Maybe they were doing in the 20s, but then it was like kind of a still a normal thing. God, that's, but I just would never, well, that's the newspaper though. Yeah. I'm, I was thinking like more police, but no, no, no, no. This is all the press. Still though. It's a little nutty. And it's so like grasping at straws. Like we need stories. We need to sell papers.

Let's get anything we can into this papers. It needs to happen. What does the moon say about this? Exactly. What does it tell about them? So they get a psycho analysis to hypothesize the mind of the killer based on what little information they had. So for barely 48 hours, 40 hours after Teresa's body was found, the sky Palmer Hoyt hired a man named Earl Stanley Gardner to come in from New York. And he had been offered the amount of money most reporters made in a year to come in because this guy Gardner was a self taught attorney to graduate school. I guess you could do that at the time. Yeah. No, no. Yeah. I got all those books. I'm good. I did for sure. Yeah. I'm an

attorney. I didn't take any tests for graduate. Can you see my vest? Yeah. It's I'm an attorney. See my briefcase right here. Look, don't worry about it. It's right. It's all in there. Look and listen to me as an attorney. But he wears tap shoes. But he wears tap shoes. Yes. He had become famous. After that, he had become a famous writer of pulp novels, create and eventually created Perry Mason. Holy shit. So he's the dude who created Perry Mason. He was a self taught lawyer. Wow. They bring him in. This guy Palmer Hoyt, the editor. Okay, so they bring him in. He at the time made him rich and the most widely read living author on the planet. So this guy's a big fucking deal. And people are going to buy the newspaper that this

guy is writing for reporting to they're turning their newspaper into a pulp novel around this story. Yeah, it's almost like if you were like Kim Kardashian is going to be on my fucking episode of whatever the fuck on in my zine. So you're going to buy the zine. What did that happen? It would be a great way to represent Kim. It's all new. Yeah. Just more Kim and text. More Kim. It's not visual with Kim at this time. It's more about her poetry. The black and white copies I make at Kinko's are going to turn out great. Kim loves collages. Kim loves collages. And she's there for all of your fanship. There you go. Let's keep doing this. So he said, I am to I am trying to present the to the readers of the Denver Post the situation

as it might appear to the eyes of Perry Mason, the fictional lawyer detective who has solved so many cases in my book. So he's fucking there to solve crimes and sell books, whatever. So he had insane access to the investigation and was treated like the like a VIP by the like police and detectives and investigators to who are like smitten by him as well. The DA, the Boulder Sheriff as well as detectives gave him access to their files and all the information on the case. They just like let him come to the station and read everything he wanted. He followed a bunch of leads that didn't pan out. He basically sucked at detecting not in a book that he had written the story about. It's different when you're detecting by making up it up as it goes along.

Right. Or like when you write what happened and then you solve what happened. It's different. So he followed a blood trail that turned out to be animal blood. Speculated that the killer cut his hands based on blood stains and called for the public to report any weirdos or suspicious dudes gathered many and so people started calling in a reporting random people. The post and all these like leads and shit were written about in the paper. So every time some weirdly would happen, it would be written about the post the Denver Post created and detailed and made up scenarios of the possibilities of Teresa's murder. So basically wrote fiction of what happened and published it as fact. They took liberties with the story, fictionalized it and distorted the evidence.

Of course the fucking term of the day was sex fiend. Like that was just on every cover of every paper. One of the lines was what dark and brutal desires lie within the hidden places of some human beings? What thoughts have perverted pleasures and gnaw at the hearts of some human creatures? What terrible and godless passions lie within the bosom of some we pass perhaps on the street? It's like calm down dude. Well you just said the same thing three times. Like take it elsewhere if you've got some theories here. Right and it's like well you keep asking me the same fucking question over and over. Totally. So the Denver police fielded an average of 200 calls a day about said fucking weirdos that they were like turned it in. Well sure they're everywhere.

Ultimately though the main suspect was found when his wife turned him in. 12 days into the hunt for Teresa's killer Eleanor Walker a woman named Eleanor Walker tells the boulder detectives about her husband 31-year-old Joe Sam Walker from El Dorado Springs. She said he had come home late the night that Teresa disappeared with his clothes bloody and a wound on the top of his head. He had burned his bloody clothes and washed out and repainted the trunk of his car. Oh totally normal. You know as like you do. Like that to-do list for Sunday? Yeah everyone knows. It's like always up right at the top. Get your teeth cleaned every six months. Repaint your fucking trunk of inside trunk of your car every three months. Yeah three months.

Just really get in there and do new colors every time. Yeah it's fun. Yeah maybe wallpaper. Hey you know something fun. So da da da da da wound burned repainted. He also told his wife he had disposed of a 45 pistol and a parka and won a park so the fucking Denver post also put a thing in that was like you know call about these weirdos and any clues you have let the police know if you can't get a hold of the police call us. Oh so all these people were calling him and like I have this clue this clue this clue. This woman had found like hidden away in like pipe a storm drain some bloody clothing including a parka and like a rag and all these things. The Denver post had taken the bloody parka and told her the other stuff was an important

so she had thrown it away. Good. Yes. So definitely listen to the fucking newspapers if they tell you that evidence isn't important. I mean it's funny because you it's a lot like that book I wrote that I was reading on the plane it's same but was in the 10s but it's exact same thing we're like once a murder happened then people just came into town that were like I'm an independent private detective and they could be anybody and they could all access all areas of anything. Right. Everything is lost. Just very recently that they were like applied logic to process. Yeah. It's like how about nobody stands around here. And no one gets all the information. Yeah we keep it to ourselves. Yeah. So they so he had gotten rid of a pistol and a parka

similar to the one that had been found. He Joe was arrested that night. So this dude Joe Walker's story of the night of the murder was that he had gone to a drive in and had a couple beers and then he had picked up a couple on his way home he picked up a couple who were in their 20s hitchhiking on the same street Teresa disappeared from a couple. They had asked to be taken to a lover's lane. The man that he had picked up of the couple drink from a pint of whiskey and the woman argued with him about needing to get home and let's see. So they get to the lover's lane and the man who he to Joe described as short and stocky in his mid 20s said he wanted to drive the car from there on for whatever reason. Walker was like no you can't drive my car.

They got into an argument and Joe says they began like fighting punching each other outside the car and then the man found Joe's 45 in the glove compartment and used it to club Joe in the head and Joe goes unconscious at this point. When he comes to the man is gone and the woman is dead half nude body hanging out of the car trunk. He finds her like that yeah yeah he's panicked and quote scared stiff so he puts her body in the trunk and drives south and disposes of her body off the bridge and tosses her clothes after her then he goes home to try and wash away all the blood. So he says someone else killed her and he disposed of her body because he was scared. Yeah he just had to do what he had to do. Yeah yeah don't tell authorities. No definitely don't

bring people to the place where you can prove you didn't do it. Right also your wife isn't on your side she's gonna tell on you so be a little more chill about that. You haven't been that cool to her for like 25 years. She's not stoked on you. Yeah yeah so the cops thought this is a bullshit story obviously they poked all these holes in it and his wife but his wife ends up believing he's innocent even though the papers go wild and tarnish Joe and aren't like this is the sex fiend. Oh and also is didn't she start it? Yeah and then she does convinced that she did the wrong thing. Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah the Denver Post soon gets all this just finds all this disturbing info about Joe. In 1947 he was arrested in Oregon on a complaint that he'd made quote

loot advances toward two girls while driving a delivery truck but the post headline was Oregon police disclose girls 11 and 12 are molested so like all this crazy shit and then so he goes to trial in 1949 and the local jury is picked and of course they've been reading these headlines constantly for fucking months. There was over 230 articles in less than six months written about this. Wow. That's a lot. So there's hair blood fiber evidence that ties him to the scene but they never tested the semen that was found which is really weird even though the defense pressed for test because they said that it would prove that the client wasn't the one who raped her it was this hitchhiker. Right. So I don't know why they never tested it it's really weird.

A waitress at the diner the drive-in where he had been said that she had served Joe and a young woman shortly after 10 the evening she disappeared and the jury comes back two days later with a verdict of guilty of second-degree murder and he sentenced to 80 years of life. So they think he was taking her out on a date? Not a date as much as like hey I'll give you a ride home would you just come get because she was having a coffee like come get a coffee with me. Oh. And I'll take you home. But at the drive-in movie theater? It's a drive-in like restaurant. Oh restaurant. You know what I mean. Sorry I immediately went to movie theater. Yeah but he had had beer and she had coffee and it's like why are they did they know each other why are they hanging out. I mean

because I always go to like the fugitive style what if what he's saying is true. I know. It doesn't sound like it like the idea that he would be going so far as to repaint your trunk. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. No. Disposing of a body speaks of guilt. Yes. Right. I think for sure. Yeah. So less than a month later after he's put away six months after Teresa's murder two students at the same from the same school are attacked next to Boulder Creek while on a blind date. The assailant hit the woman in the head with some kind of metal pipe and she was able to get away. But her date Roy Spore had his leg in a cast and couldn't run. His body is recovered from the creek the next day. His skulls fractured in several places. His murder is never

his murder has never been found either by coincidence or not. Just as Teresa was he's an engineering student. Whoa. So two engineering students in six months are attacked and bludgeoned to death in the same area. In the same way. In the same way in the same area. So there is a possibility that it's a coincidence. Yeah. Fuck. Or that it's not. That it's the same murder. That it's a serial killer. Right. But that he's innocent. Yeah. I mean the engineering student thing could be a coincidence. I'd have to see some number. Yeah. How many engineer students are there. Divided by a million. By X. X. X a million. Yeah. And then go ahead and round that off. To three. So yeah. There's three engineering students and two of them had been killed. Oh my god.

That's borderline a majority. If I were that third one I'd get the fuck out of town. I would get on a train. By. In disguise. And I would get out of town. Or is he the killer. Oh fuck. I have to be the only engineering student. So sorry. That was him calling. That was the bell that when you get it completely right. That's what that was. When the theories go and go and go and we finally hit on what happened. Karen's phone rings. God text me and says. Yep. Here you go. You're doing God's work. You're doing my work. He said to say hi Georgia. Hey bro. And that actually your people are the ones that are right. Oh good. Yeah. She said. That's right. Okay. That's what she said. That's what she that's what God she said. Okay. Blah blah blah. After 20 years after Joe gets locked up

the Colorado Supreme Court overturned his conviction due to his claims of pretrial publicity. So right before that are like pretty quickly before this Sam Shepard remember him he's a doctor who maybe killed his wife maybe didn't. Yeah. In Ohio. He his conviction had been overturned because of the media involvement and how much bullshit was talked. So even if he did it or not it doesn't matter he didn't get a fair trial. Right. So based on that this dude Joe Walker is like I had it fucking worse and they're like yeah you did and they overturned his conviction. Wow. Yeah. So they concluded that the post the Denver Post had injected itself into the investigation investigatory process by distorting evidence presenting speculation as fact and dubious

detective work as infallible and they described events that never happened and generally whipped up publicity quote so extensive so slanted and prejudicial so calculated to inflame and so all perversive as to make a fair trial for Walker impossible. So whether or not he fucking did it they let him go. Yeah. He maintained his innocence until 1982 when he hanged himself in a Texas motel room. Shit. So we know we don't know who killed her and we don't know if it's him. I'm going to guess it is but you know. But still there's the door is open. I just and I'm sorry to correct you but this one people are going to talk about hung all perversive is what you said but it's all pervasive and perversive I think is like a different. You're right. More of a fetish

thing the all all the dirty things you can think. I'm going to say it's perversive though. I'm going to say I meant you say that. I know I want to say it is correct that I meant that. Well you can do that if you want to. What was the words I used last time that ended up being. I mean dude. What was it. It was proclensity but it was proclivity and propensity. Yeah. Which turns out are the same are the same. And so proclensity is basically I was mashing upwards in. Yeah. In retrospect. Yeah. No. I was doing it on purpose then. Right. OK. So this my murder this week is from one of those packs of true crime trading cards that Steven gave us. Well you gave him to us two Christmases ago. Is that right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe it's been that long.

I know. Oh my god. So I think I might have gone through all of mine. Like I think if you gave us four or five packs each. I didn't open all of them. I'm really weird about that because it's just such a special thing when it's in a package. But I mean are you going to open them. I don't know. I'm like I want to save one unopened but open the other four. But there's good stuff in there. I know I know I need to. OK. I'll do it. I mean I get what you mean. But then well I'll just tell you this and you can decide for yourself. Should I do a video of the you know how they do like unpackaging videos. Yes. Should I do that with a hundred percent. OK. I'll do it. Perfect. Please log on to Georgia at YouTube dot net for the new unpacking. I'll put it on our Instagram.

My favorite murder. My favorite murder Instagram story. I hate those. Oh shoot. Because they go. OK. Why am I talking. They disappear in 24 hours. Right. What's that about. It's stupid. It's for sex. It's throwaway culture. Everything around us is throwaway. Don't get me started. OK. Well here's what I will tell you. So I have gone through all of mine. Great. Pulled out a lot of the Mafias because sorry. It's just not my jam. Yeah. Got a lot of great ones. But this one was from a brand new pack that sorry Stephen it's not the pack you gave us. But a listener that we met in Las Vegas gave us. Yeah. And I pulled this out on the plane. I think probably flying home or flying a Phoenix. And I laughed out loud like a real creep at this.

The specific one. This specific one. Oh my god. And then was overjoyed. And then I was like I'm finally one ahead. Like I know what I want to do. Yeah. Which just never happens. I always feel like I'm scrambling to think of things. So I'm like here it is. Whatever. I'm excited. It's a little short though because it is a foreign crime and it's a one off. So most of the articles that I found the were the same. It was people regurgitating the same article to the point where there was one that was just somebody that had taken the end of the story and put it at the top of the paragraph and then basically told it backwards or was like but word for word it was the same. And it's like they hit translate. Yeah. And it's a bad translation. You know make it your

own. Yeah. Put something in there that's for you. But anyway. So thank you for the listener who gave us as I'm sorry I don't have your name on this piece of paper. That's really uncool. Here's what I will say though. Those true crime trading cards were written by Valerie Jones and Peggy Collier and the art is drawn by Paul Lee and it was all done in 1992. Oh I love this shout out. Right. Yeah. Because they made all those fucking things. And I love it's two women. And I it's two women and they took heat for it. Remember when when they came out everyone's like this is disgusting and this is this culture of celebrating murderers. Yeah. Words like no it's just a bunch of great interesting information. Give us 20 years bro. It's history baby. Listen baby

bro. Also it's out. It's all out of Forestville which is a little town north of Petaluma. Oh probably about half an hour going toward the Russian River that I know very well. It's your fucking hood. Let's invite them to our if we ever have a Sacramento show. That's a good idea or a show in Santa Rosa. Yeah. Sacramento you guys can stop sending us your threatening postcards that you've been sending us. Yeah that's right. We have things in the works for you. You beautiful demanding. Threatening has worked. And will work. Yeah. Okay. Okay sorry. No no no. So this is the story of the murderer Luigi Longhi. Now I don't speak Italian. This isn't a surprise you. Wait you don't. I don't speak Italian. I'm sorry what? So I'm not sure if L-O-N-G-H-I Longhi

is I assume. Longhi. Longhi is what I'm thinking. Longhi. Yeah. So Luigi Longhi was born in 1954 to Italian parents in Switzerland and from a very early age he had a sexual fetish that got him into a lot of trouble with the law. Which one? It's a very interesting and rare one. At age 10 he was arrested for stealing women's wigs and bottles of shampoo from hair salons in the neighborhood. That is a new one. Have you heard anything about this? No. I mean that's a new fetish that I haven't heard of. And from such a young age. Oh yeah. What happened? I got this just to go into I was trying to be like oh what would that childhood obsession with hair what would that mean? That specific I guess we'll call it it's a paraffilia or a fetish. Right. But it's

I can't find anything about it anywhere. It only brings you to the one where you trichophilia I think where you pull your hair out. Oh yeah. So but that's about one. That is yeah that's a tough one. I had a friend that used to pick a little part of his eyebrow all the time when he was dressed out. Oh. So you knew that he was like in the middle of an edit or something when he like part of his eyebrow would be gone right there. It always grew back. I knew a little girl who when I was little who pulled her hair out and was really sad and her brother like threatened all her friends all the girls in her grade if you fucking make fun of my sister I will. Oh that's awesome. I know it's very sweet. He like kind of yeah it was really sweet. Also I think there are

a lot of childhood things like that that it's common. I think a lot of people have that. Everyone everyone shows their anxiety in different ways. I used to do a thing where I wouldn't take my jacket off on the playground even though it was hot. Why? I don't know. I would reach. I always thought that people were putting notes on my back and so I would I would constantly be reaching to touch my back and constantly be checking my back. Why did you see that happen to somebody else? Probably in like Parker Lewis can't lose or some shit like in a fucking save by the bell and so I was like constantly but just I thought everyone was making fun of me. Of course. Yeah that was mine. Because you were in junior high elementary school. Oh wow. No I was on meth in junior high so no one would

fuck with me. That was my tick. Did that work? That was my tick in junior high is taking meth. Just and maybe it'll stop fucking with me. Yeah that's a different kind of tick. Uh-huh. Okay sorry. No no uh so this is on Wikipedia which you know how they always have like you it'll cite it if you need a reference like if you're just stating something in an article they're like you have to prove this. Right yeah. I think there should be the same citations for grammar because listen to how this paragraph sounds. Love it. Let me have it. Hair fetishism comes from a natural fascination with the species on the admiration of the coat as its texture provides pleasurable sensations. An infant develops this kind of pleasure to feel the hair on his or

her early life manifesting an aggressive behavior that will drive to pull the hair of people with which it interacts. That was the most gorgeous sentence. I'm getting that whole thing tattooed on my back and italics. You know when you hear something and you're just like oh my god that's it. That is like the wisdom of the ages on its coat. I want you to repeat it but it's too long but I still love it. It's really long and and also essentially it's just like children with hair fetishism like the touch touching hair at an early age. But it says so much more. Well someone put that in like that quote as like one of those um motivational photo quotes with like the ocean in the background please and we'll post it. Maybe if um there's a lady that has hair down to her

feet. Oh if you could superimpose Crystal Gale into this. Okay. She's a regional country you know her. Oh no is she the one with the long lady with the longest hair in the world. Yeah and she was Loretta Lynn's sister. Anyhow interesting. I also then in trying to find articles about the shampoo the fetish of wanting to shampoo women's hair. I found an article from the independent and from 2007 where they talk about the results of the largest global study of sexual kinks ever undertaken and it turns out that um among sexual preferences for body parts feet and toes are the most popular at 47 percent. Head shoulders feet and toes feet and toes feet and toes feet and toes feet and toes. They also found that when it came to objects associated with the body shoes

boots and other footwear scored 64 percent. And just to give you a sense of uh compared to other things and this is based on the views of men and women. Okay. 150 people uh with a penchant for hearing aids. What? Two who had um a fetish for pacemakers. They were 12 percent of them were turned on by underwear. 9 percent by coats. 7 percent by hair. So it's kind of in the low middle I guess. But it's but it's present. It's there. It represents but it's in no way near for you. Five percent muscles. Four percent genitals. Only five percent muscles. Five percent muscles and four percent genitals. You think that'd be number one. You would think that maybe it's just too obvious like two on the nose. Right. Two on the genitals. You're like no I'm into

the nose. How about the nose? Yeah. Uh the lowest scores and so sorry guys went to stethoscopes wrist watches bracelets diapers and catheters. Oh catheters. Oh catheters. Where did my mine of nacho cheese fries come in? It ranks it's oh my god eight percent. Look at this. Great. I see nacho cheese fries and I'm just like ready to go girl girl guy Vince. Okay now then from this article I stumbled onto an article about object sexuality which is that thing where people fall in love with bridges and marry them. Oh like the actual object they're into. Yes because I was kind of trying to go like well if you're if you don't have anything to tell me about washing ladies hair then maybe this area will and I just kept clicking on things that we're bringing I actually

got to a hair washing porn site. What? Um I didn't click on it though because no because that's forever. Yeah did you what about is the person who married a roller coaster in there? Yes that well in my short list uh this is a woman's day article from 2010 where there it's a list of the 10 known romances between people and things. Oh my god including the Berlin Wall a fairground ride which I think is what you're talking about a body pillow totally understandable. I get that Jesus. A Nintendo video game character oh a Volkswagen Beetle oh the World Trade Center a Steam locomotive understandable an iBook sure and the most romantic of all a metal processing system. So wow man there's like a glitch in the matrix of your brain when those

things happen. Yeah I mean who are we to say? It's right it's everybody gets some weird thing that happens to them when they're like five and they go like oh that's my thing and then that's just how it is. Yeah I guess you get emotionally attached to whatever. Yeah you have some weird memory that's just like oh Christmas and point set as that turns me on. Okay so here let's get let's get back we're not trying to kink shame anybody. No. I just kind of throw some things out there. You actually kink unshaming and showing all the beautiful ways that there are to love and fuck. Right because one I you know focused on the foot like the fucking aspect but then I brought it around to love with the metal processing system. No shame get yours it's the way you have

to. From a bridge. Don't hurt anyone in the process. Or a bridge. Oh yeah. They're sensitive. They're sensitive they have to be there all the time for people. Yeah they seem strong. Yeah but they're really not. Yeah deep down deep down in a windy day. All right so Luigi Longhi spent some time in mental institutions and he was eventually deported from Switzerland in 1977 when he was 25 so he moved to Denmark a city called Padborg. Padborg. Let's do it. I think I just make the worst fucking Ikea joke in the world. Please mark that and all ideas similar to it. No no no leave it because you held back. Just show that I have control. Thanks. Okay so he says that this is when he began hiring women who would let him wash their hair. He never asked for sex.

He never harmed them in any way. He just shampooed them compulsively. In fact he was a virgin. Shampooing hair. Yeah that's what he needed to get it done. So on May 30th 1981 when Luigi was 29 years old he picked up a German hitchhiker named Heike Freyheit at the Danish-German border and he offered her to buy her a ticket to Copenhagen if she would come and let him wash her hair in his apartment and she was like okay I can get home. It's almost like if instead he like offering that to me is creepier than if he was like can you come over so I can murder you. Yes because your hair washing part is just like what. Yeah it's all questions. Yeah there's there's nothing you can't trust it. It doesn't sound normal. It doesn't sound that easy as you

know it can't be that easy. Right because normally the way hair washing works is you pay someone else to do it for you. Right and like you don't have to be alone with a strange man. And I know this is it right that's key. I know this is you know like obviously he had mental problems from an early age but I wish someone had told him you can get a job washing women's hair and get paid for it. I did it. Did you really? For a short time yeah. What are are there any tricks we need to know? Yeah every person who washes hair has a spot that they just immediately miss like you just ignore this one and so mine was like the back right side of the neck so you may have to make sure to do that. Don't spray people in the face. I was really bad at it.

What the hell? Oh yeah I was just it was it's really intimate. It's really really intimate and like it's and I was like 20 not even 20 years old so I was just like suddenly like caressing people's heads. With basically kind of with your boobs on their face. Yeah I mean is the position. Yes it's odd. It's really creepy and intimate. And as you like that's an interesting perspective because just as the receiver you just I would just close my eyes I'm like I'm at the massage parlor right now. I think that's key is that close your eyes it makes it less creepy. Yeah don't fucking stare at the person that's trying to wash your hair. That's not the time for eye contact. Be polite and close your fucking eyes. Have a personal moment if you can't close your eyes because

you're that you know the insanity inside you is such that you can't be alone in there in the dark. Look away baby. Do a half lip look away zone out. Yeah please if you can. Okay she goes there he washes her hair to the point where in this I wish there was so much more information about this they both fell asleep. So he must have been good. He must have been good. She could have been on some drugs. Sure felt comfortable. He may have been very non-threatening and like she just was a tired hitchhiker. If you ever had a good hair wash man. It can be so nice. Oh my god. Well so he wakes up and he wants to wash her hair again. Okay. But he knows now this is the dividing line between when he usually gets women to wash let him wash their hair is that he does it and

then they leave. So now he wants to do it again he knows she's going to say no so he decides to tie her up so he binds her hands and her feet and then she so she's waking up as he takes her back over to the chair at the sink to wash her hair again. Oh god. And once she gets in the chair he gags her and and the binds her to the chair so that she won't move around and then he proceeds to wash her hair for hours and hours until he runs out of shampoo. Are you fucking kidding me. Uh-huh and and this is the part where and I was it was not humor laugh it was like nervous what the fuck am I reading on this holy shit holy shit yeah just I've never heard anything like this. So then when he runs out of shampoo he looks around his apartment for other things he can use

so then he starts shampooing her hair with honey then he shampoos her hair with salad dressing and cottage cheese so which is horrifying. I am speechless and insane and then it also reminded me in the 70s and I can't remember if we've talked about this or not my mom used to put a conditioning pack on her hair on the weekends that was just mayonnaise. That's what I used to do. How do you stand I don't know so gross and she would have it she'd have like a perfectly manicured fingernails with mayonnaise underneath her but she'd be like honey hand me that thing and I'd be like I can't be anywhere near you. I would use like fucking fistfuls yes fucking mayonnaise in your hair you wrap plastic wrap around your head yes and you just let it fucking marinate yeah

and your hair is beautiful and shiny and stinks. The stink is so gross. It's so bad it's fucking egg rotten eggs. It's rotten eggs that you're putting on your head. What I think is interesting about the fact that he did that and kept doing it with other stuff is that it's not about washing her hair and it's like that it makes you understand something more about this fetish which is it's like it's manipulating the scalp and hair of a woman and the act of doing that rather than the washing. Right it's not about cleanliness. It's not about cleanliness or or the woman enjoying it no because no one's going to enjoy cut cheese fucking wrapped in their head unless you meet to me or your mom. Right and a small handful of other people yeah no it's about his enjoyment

of touching her hair with liquid in it basically and probably rinsing it. Rinsing the scalp and touching hair. Okay so so all the while while she's being shampooed of course she's struggling against her restraints but now he's worked himself up into a frenzy because he can shampoo her he like there's no he's out of control he can do whatever he wants so then he decides he wants to see what she looks like naked and so he rips her clothes off and so this is when he begins to stomp her feet on the ground she's trying to get like a neighbor to notice or know that something's wrong and when she starts to do that um he's put and it doesn't say when this happened he's put a noose around her neck so he's tightening it trying to make her stop stomping her feet um and she

ends up dying of asphyxiation. Oh my god. He later tells the police that it was an accident he says I never intended to kill her but suddenly she went limp and I realized she was dead um but in a couple articles too the way they phrased it was almost like she strangled herself by fighting against the ligatures and it's like it's if the ligature weren't there. Exactly and also if he if there's anything noose like in the story sorry that there's one there's one use for that. If there's a way to strangle yourself because there's something around your neck then he then he killed her. It's not. Right. He strangled her. If you were beginning to strangle yourself because you were moving you'd stop moving. Yeah. Yeah. This is not on her. Yeah. Okay so of course he panics

and what does he do which then also combines some other interests that we have he stuffs her body into a wall space puts lime on it and gets the fuck out of dodge. Oh my god. Nine months later there were workmen who are re-insulating the roof. Nine months. They didn't find her. Does lime work that well? Um well no I didn't say what like they found her body so it's not like it completely disintegrated. Okay. But maybe it controlled her smell that's what I mean it's like no one was like I have no idea but yeah it took nine months and then they fucking looked down and there's a body in a wall which is horrifying um but also one of the stories that we were asking people to send us of things in walls um so anyway Luigi Longhi uh pled not guilty but on March 11th 1983 he was

found to be criminally insane and confined to a mental institution for an indefinite amount of time. I was thinking this was like the 40s. No. Shit. 83 so because the true crime crime cards were written in 1992 on the card it says where he remains until this day uh we don't know if that's true but if he is still alive today he'd be 66. He's young. And that's the short and singular story of Luigi Longhi. Wow. Yeah. Let's go find him. Yeah. Oh that's creepy. That's so creepy. Yeah. Guys send us your tell us your fetishes. No thanks. Steven's like no. No. Imagine the inbox. Oh no. Send Steven your fetish. Well we have all these new listeners that people have no interest in true crime whatsoever. They just want us their fetish is us reading their fetish. Yeah

that's right against our will. Uh-huh um but that was fucked up. Yeah. That was a quick episode. Yeah. What's your thing that makes you happy this week? You're positive. Uh yeah my thing is another gift from a person in the VIP line the Peelene um it's called it's a book called The Man from the Train by a man who's normally a baseball writer named Bill James but he also wrote the book Popular Crime which a lot of us have read. Okay. Oh I have to read it. So he's it's very cool because he's approaching um it's basically there's this you have to read it so I don't want to like overly spoil but he's linking um the Voliska axe murders um and a bunch of other really grizzly murders it's one guy that used to ride the train and um it's just incredible and he uses that kind

of like here's all the things this guy did and he did it every single time and they went through and pulled all the stories from back then of was somebody killed by an axe in a small town near a railroad and it's incredible they did so much research oh I can't wait to write it it's so so good and also the way he writes like sometimes I feel like when I read true crime books it's very like uh it gets very uh prosy and like kind of like the very overly descriptive this guy it's like he's just talking to you or he's like we'll talk about that later like here's the research this is it and he's like and that you might that might remind you of this but it comes back later so we'll talk about that that like it's really cool narrative and then it's just really clear

and it's one of those really satisfying like if you know about this crime and this crime and this crime he's like it's all one guy nice yeah okay I'm I really want to read it yeah I'm halfway done so you'll have it in you know two weeks okay my seven months great or I think yeah or I'll buy it uh oh I just bought a stranger beside me um can I just say cats I think that's making me happy as cats and my cats and watching them sure that's what's making me happy right now it's just nice to fucking sit and chill with them and we're gone so much touring that like when I get to come home and see them it just makes me really happy great yeah well thanks for listening you guys thanks guys for listening um all right stay sexy and don't get murdered bye Elvis want

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