My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 11 - What the Helleven

Episode Date: April 7, 2016

The theme this week is "cannibals" and it gets gross when Karen discusses murder and mayhem on a Greyhound bus, and Georgia goes classic with everyone's favorite nasty old man, Albert Fish. Plus lots of shit talking and staying sexy, as always.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Okay, we're recording. We're recording a podcast. We're recording a podcast. Everybody clear your throat. What's your name? My name is Karin Calgarra. That's cool. What's your name? Georgia Hard Stark. And what are we here to do? Talk about moida. Let's do accents the whole time. I'll do British. Okay. I'm gonna have to slide into it. It's gonna take a while. Really have to concentrate. Hello, governor. What do you got a murder for me? Shoot. Shoot.

Hi, everybody. Hi, welcome to my favorite murder with Mrs. Karen and Georgia. And we're here to talk about your favorite murders and ours. Yep. That's what we do. If you just found this randomly, if you're just entering random words on iTunes and you found our podcast, welcome. You might bum out. You might get bummed out. There are or you might fall in love with murder. Trigger warning. Should we do trigger warning? Yep. Murder, clearly. If you didn't figure that one out. And peanuts. Peanut warning. Oh, peanuts. Yes. Yes. Not this again. There's also several large penises in this podcast. Keep your eye peeled. Okay. So before we get into this week's favorite murder. Oh, Georgia's got some papers. She's got some serious business over there. Well,

I want to discuss. Okay. So we have a Facebook group for my favorite murder. That is unbelievably awesome. Pretty great. 2200 people now. Wow. This is our 11th episode. I mean, like 22 people. Nope. 2200 people. And for the most part, they're cool. I had to kick a guy out this week. He was being a creeper. He was being a creep. Is it the guy that posted the thing about how to check yourself for ovarian cancer? What? Did you see that one? I think it was probably him. He posted like, Hey, you guys like beards or like, what do you do for guys following you at night? Like really inappropriate. Oh, it's just weird. Yes. And the majority of the people in the group are female and they were all like, Hey, Georgia, can you click this guy out? Yeah. So I kicked him

off. And then someone wrote something about like politics. And I deleted their posts, but I didn't delete them. So Oh, because you just didn't want to have it be a thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I wrote a thing like, let's just talk about murder. Yeah, it's we're not there to have it. I'll turn into anything really except for a forum for what everybody's creepy, funny interest is. It's funny that in a Facebook group writing and talking about murder, I have to be like, you're inappropriate. You have to be so inappropriate to get kicked out of a fucking murder group. Yeah. Well, but the other thing too, what I found, and I was on there for a little while and then I told Georgia the story of how I, I'm so afraid because I went back to Facebook

and I don't want them to alert all my lunatic like, we need to be back people that I went to camp with who made me leave in the first place. Yeah, Karen's back. I was afraid it was going to go through all my email addresses and just be like, yeah, guess what, everybody? So I tried to change my email. Anyway, what ended up happening is I got locked out of my own new Facebook on that thing. So I'm, it's bums me out because I was on there for like three days going crazy. I mean, like I wanted to comment on what everybody was talking about. I have liked, it's getting overwhelming, but there's so many great, there's so much great shit and you can just like post one little thing and be and everyone just writes stuff. And people are so funny and smart. See, that's the thing is

that like, I think maybe a creeper or an outsider of any kind, it just shows immediately because everybody's just on task. Man or woman, everybody there is there to have very specific types of conversations and they're not even all about murder. No, and they know their shit. Like one person would be like, you get a lot of, of posts saying like, what was the murder that triggered it for you and that made you obsessed with it? Or what was, you know, the hometown murder thing is people are obsessed with that. Yeah. It's like a lot of really smart questions and then really smart answers. It's great. And I think, yeah, as soon as some guy was like writing something that clearly had nothing to do with it, people were annoyed. Well, and also that's like a weird

dude that walks up to you and your friends at a bar of like, Hey, what do you guys think of beer? So it's like, we think go fuck yourself. Yeah. And they don't get it. Yeah. I've had, yeah, I've had those. I'm not nice about that anymore. You comfy? Yes. Well, I realized that I was facing, I was perpendicular to you, like looking at you out of the corner of my eye. That's how I like to talk to people. And that's kind of, it's kind of, I wasn't trying to be coy. Oh, so I didn't tell you this. I am listening to, and I know you are too. You must remember this podcast about Charlie Manson. Yes. Like a seven part? It's a seven-parter. The last episode I listened to was Dennis Wilson. I'm listening to that right now. I love it. How many celebrity

name drops are in that? So many. It's hilarious. It's like Angela Lansbury's daughter hung out with the Charles Manson family and like would charge food on her mom's credit card until Angela Lansbury was like, cancel the card, get the hell out of there. Do you ever reconcile that you thought Charlie Manson was cool? Like, do you ever reconcile like Ann Rule thinking that Ted Bundy was a nice guy? I don't think you ever can trust yourself again. Or is it like a compartmentalizing? No, you can't. Here's why I think you could. First of all, Angela Lansbury's daughter was very young. She was probably in her early 20s, if not teens. Okay. So you get a pass if you're young and dumb and it's summertime and you're probably on acid. Yeah. Anybody with long hair

and like a weird take on life is going to be interesting to you, I bet. It's funny how in past episodes you and I've been like, well, how close have you been to getting murdered? And like one time I walked to my car alone and like Angela Lansbury's daughter was like, well, I used to fucking take acid with Charlie. I chilled out with Charlie Manson for a summer before I went to Europe. But Ann Rule has like the perfect excuse because Ted Bundy was the ultimate. Yeah. You had to really hang out with Ted Bundy before you caught on. It's something weird was happening. He had his act down pat. Good for him. So what's he supposed to, I mean, he carried, he acted like he cared about her. He wasn't like a creep to Ann Rule. He was sweet to her.

Do you kind of wish like standing in front of us right now were like, okay, let's say there's like five dudes and one of them is sociopath. Do you think after talking to them for like, you get to ask each one three questions? Yeah. Do you think you could pick out which one is a sociopath? I think well, sociopaths are hard though, because their whole game in life is to win, to beat people, to be right. So they want, they want to trick you. They're going to do anything they can to not get found out. I would think that the nicest dude or the most normal seeming dude would be the sociopath. Like, no, dude, like the emo kid in the corner is like, do you accuse Vincent of being a sociopath all the time? No, because he's, no, because he's, he's nice, but he like,

he's not a pushover. Oh, oh, got it, got it. Yeah. But that reminds me, okay, I put up in the Facebook group, because remember a couple episodes ago, we talked about how you hate 911 calls. Yes. And we talked about how when a husband kills his wife and then calls 911 and pretends like he didn't do it. Yeah. And I was like, can you guess which one was real and which one wasn't? And I said I could, right? Yeah. And so we have to wait till Dustin's recording us next time because Dustin's not here because I need someone to play. I don't want to listen. I want us both to play. I got a bunch of people to put 911 calls in the comments of our Facebook group. So we can actually play the game that we made up? Yep. So we're going to have Dustin pick. So we're going to have Dustin pick.

Listeners. I mean, it sounds like the worst game in the history of the world. Should we wait till Halloween for some terrible holiday that's scary? Listen, there was enough that we could do it every fucking day of our lives, which is so fucked up. I don't want to. We have to for science podcasting. It's here's the thing though. It's because when you listen to a person talk like that, it sends alarm bells. It's like very, I want to say reptilian, but it's like it's adrenaline. It's old. It's like alarm bells go off of like if a man shrieks, that's an unnatural sound. Definitely. They're not supposed to make that sound. I feel like we're going to have to both close our eyes, give ourselves, lay down on the ground, kill ourselves and then listen to them

and then put some stuff in our ears. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like a terrible, horrible, hilarious game that I might do one round of. We'll have Dustin pick three out. One of them will one of them will be real. So we don't have to listen to too many real ones. Perfect. Okay. Nice. They're never real. And everyone kills their wives. It's very common practice. What else? Oh, I was going to say last week I called that podcast the crime, the crime garage about 90 times. It's called the true crime garage. And just commented and we're like, Hey guys, did they comment?

Didn't you see? Yeah, I think it was them. I was locked out. Remember locked out of Facebook. No, no, no, on, on our Twitter, my favorite murder, that Twitter, Twitter. They talked to us directly. I have been off social media because this goddamn job. This goddamn awesome job. Yeah, it's not McDonald's. Yeah, they, they commented and we're like, did they say get our name right? Were they mad? They were like, lol, thank you. Oh, nice. They were cool. They were cool. Oh, good. Okay. Thank God. Yeah. Jesus. Wow. We have a real reach. Speaking of which, we found out. Oh my God. Dustin sent us a picture. Go ahead. You do it. He sent us a little screen grab.

And we are number 75 on the iTunes podcast list. Comedy podcast. Is it comedy? Yeah. Which is fucking huge. It's humongous. We've done this once a week for 11 weeks. That's not a lot. Thank you so much. You guys, whoever, here's what I love is when people know I now only can see it on Twitter because I've been locked out of Facebook. Goddamn Facebook. But, um, but on Twitter, what I love is when people are like, you would like this and it's, it's our, you know, listeners recommending and, and telling people. Tell a friend. Always tell a friend. Everybody's doing a lot of great, it's like we've got a street team. Totally. People are doing great work. Well, Dustin was telling me that the way you get your numbers

up and the way you get in those lists is that is people rating and reviewing and then downloading to, but you have to download from iTunes to get those numbers. Oh, okay. But like if you're doing it for early Apple, you know, so if you have a podcast thing up, which I do. So they register it. Yeah. Well, thank you for doing it, everybody. Thanks guys. It's really exciting and a huge compliment for a podcast with two female hosts, neither of which are married to big podcasting, big wigs, comedy, big wigs, no offense to those who are terrible flame war. Do I need to edit that out? I don't think so. It just depends on how you meant it. Or have a, a famous or male comedian on the podcast with them.

Look at the, at the end of the day, two girls who are talking about the one thing that they thought they weren't allowed to talk about, which is loving murder. And it's working out nice. We're glad that people like it. Did I just flame war so hard? You did not. There could, there's so many people that could have been. I know. Truly. And I don't care. That was George. That was Karen who said that. I mean, yeah, that's all me. Karen, it's your turn. Is it my turn to go first this week? If you want, I'm happy to. Guys, this week, our theme is cannibalism, which I think I didn't realize how rough it was going to be. Well, and I kind of touched on it last week with my, the vampire Sacramento, but he was,

I mean, there's, what I realized in reading is yes, it's rough. It's super gross. I have something to read you. And there's all different kinds. I have something to read Karen about when I was like, I don't know about cannibalism. And you said, and you texted me back. Hold on. Let me see here. I said, what if this, uh, I, we were talking about maybe it'll be cannibalism. And I said, what if the theme is what if they're innocent? And you wrote, I feel like cannibalism would be easier for me. I was like, okay, cool. Yeah. I didn't want to have to do a bunch of like, yeah, will they, won't they? What I enjoy is when you know for a fact someone has murdered

12 children, they were caught with like human flesh in their oven. Some horrible. Yeah. I like deep horror as opposed to like, could he be in jail? And that's just sad. But, but also I meant it because it's like, I basically off the top of my head was like, well, there's classic Albert fish. Everybody, you know, that's that, that thing of like, he's, you know, he's an all star. So, and there's Dahmer. Everyone knows Dahmer. Everybody knows Dahmer. And, uh, if you haven't heard last past podcast on the left's Dahmer, I think it's a three part series, two or three part. It's very perfectly researched, of course, Marcus Parks, but also hilariously funny. I gotta say about speaking of, you must remember this

and Dahmer. I don't care about either of those cases. Uh, Manson or Dahmer? I'm really bored by your recipe. You must remember this. Uh, I know that's as a podcast. As a story. You're flaming out tonight. As a story. You're just like, I don't like anything, but when children get murdered. No, no, no, I 100% agree with you that somebody, um, I think on Twitter recommended the, you must remember this Manson series. And my SaaS remark back immediately was, I don't like hippies. It's someone that I know or talk to. So it wasn't like too mean, but, um, that's my thing is that,

yeah, Charles Manson is, it's just random. And then Jeffrey Dahmer is just like one guy being gross. And I like more of a planning, processing, a true serial killer. Oh, I guess he was in that way. But like, as I've said a million times, I tend to more toward like seven, the movie seven, where it's like notebooks, weird shit hung in your part. Obsessive. Well, he had shit all over. I guess I'm less interested in serial killers these days than I am in either one off murders or even multiple murders, but not a serial killer. I just don't think I'm as interested anymore in, in that as much as people who fucking snap. I guess sociopaths and psychopaths bore me because there's no explanation. There's no like understanding them. I hate being so far away from, I hate saying

I don't understand at all how they could have done that. I want like a, well, I've been pissed off or I've been with this person who was a psychopath. Like I understand. That's fascinating because I'm exactly the opposite. That's why this is a perfect second. I have to do it. It's, it's one of my oldest habits. Um, yeah, I guess I like the psychological what the hell is going on. And people don't really have the answer. I like the fact that the human brain is such a mystery. Yeah. And what is, what's behind everything? I don't, I don't like when the, the trial is open and close. I want it to be so complicated and so insane and weird and circumstantial and, and this and that, that we don't really know completely.

And also it was like a temporary insanity or, you know, which I don't believe in at all. But I also, like when we were talking, talking about the staircase, um, stories like that, and if you haven't seen the staircase, it's a documentary series. It's amazing and you should definitely see it if you care about true crime. Cause it's, it's got everything. Yeah. What I love about it is it's something great to talk about. Like everyone I know has a completely different opinion and there's still new stuff coming in. The thing about the blood spatter expert, just being a complete fraud is amazing. And it's like, it's the story's always developing. Well, that's why I did like the jinx is that he killed circumstantially. He killed because

the circumstances demanded it. His wife was going to leave him. His neighbor was going to snitch on him. His best friend was figuring his shit out. So he had to kill, you know, like, I mean, he didn't clearly, but I love that that person's brain thought these ways. He wasn't a psychopath who enjoyed murder. It was like this, he's such a fucking narcissist that these were the, that was the, the means to the end. But I think there's, you could argue he did enjoy some of it because he was so tricky when he killed the woman who was his good friend. I can't remember her name now. That whole thing where he flew into like way more than California and drove down. So it's like, I wasn't in Los Angeles. But just the fact, you know, he shot her in the back of the head,

meaning he couldn't look her in the face when he killed her. True. Because there were emotions there. Yeah. He knew her and he like, he had grown up with her. Totally. What a creep. He walked her down the aisle when she got married. Yeah. So he, like little things like that, you know, it's not like those little things, I think are the, and the, so the serial killers, like even Ted Bundy, which I've read all about when I was like 14 and like serial killer, like a cult shit, but then got older and was like, this isn't how life is. Life is ugly and weird and creepy and spur of the moment and you make and Ted Bundy's beautiful. And Ted Bundy is calculated. Oh, yes. Like organized. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes. I get it. Yeah. That makes sense. And wait, what about

capitalism? Oh, I guess I was saying, like in the, in the first pass of looking at different, all the choices we had, and I know people were posting. So if you, whatever you find here, if it does, it does not satisfy you, go to our Facebook page because people started posting stories, what they like. And that's always a great thing too, is that no matter what happens here, there's a bunch of options on the Facebook page. Yeah. And sometimes we'll, we'll have our murder, but the thing that we're, that either Karen and I are focusing on is a part of it that we find interesting. Yeah. Like we don't have, we're not going to tell you from start to finish the murder. We can't do a seven part series. We don't have the attention span. I'm sorry. What?

But I was going to say, uh, do you see how cute my cat is? I do. Oh, I'm sorry. You were serious. I thought you were both joking. No, well, I was just going to say, I love, you must remember this because I, those ones that are like fully produced, she's got music cues. Her speaking voice is perfect. And the writing is amazing. Beautiful. I just keep thinking of how she's, she's taking so much research and making it a fascinating story. She's, she is doing a great fucking job. Yeah. Just don't care about Manson, but I'm going to listen to the whole thing cause it's still history. Right. I didn't think I cared about Manson. I started listening to it cause I had a long drive home one night and I was like,

I'm not, I'm not going to listen to the radio. And by the end of the first episode, I was like, I am in this, I want to hear whatever you have to tell me. Cause she folds in all the Angela Lansbury shit that you didn't even know was in there in the first place. The connections and like why he came to LA, which is like, I didn't understand, didn't know why he came to Los Angeles and like what a fucking little, you know, where he met a lot of the Manson followers. Yeah. Well, but the podcast I love even more because it's, there's no explanation and it's empty is someone knows something. Did you listen to the new episode? No, I'm not caught up. My Lord. Are you mad at me? No, I'm like, I'm, that was a,

I can't deal with this podcast. Psy. Cause it's so good. Oh, oh, don't tell me anything. I'm not going to tell you, but you need to listen to the, listen. If you haven't listened to someone know something, listen from the very beginning. It's the whole season is one is about one story and it's fucking incredible. It's really good. Oh, also I was going to say, uh, oh, people were talking on the, for the four minutes I was on the Facebook page. I'm just going to keep harping on it. Like as if I got kicked out on a personal level, but well, I did write a letter to Facebook was like, can you get this bitch out of here? Dear Facebook. Um, there were, at one point, there was a whole thread about people liking or not liking certain podcasts. And I actually

made this comment, but I don't think it ended up on there, which has started my problem of how I ended up getting kicked off. But, um, what I was saying is, uh, this is kind of the beauty of it. There's a million true crime podcasts to listen to and you, and it really is like having to sit with people for an hour. So like, I remember there was a guy on the Facebook page that talked about how he didn't love our female ramblings and I could not stop laughing. Cause I was like, yeah, but it was like, it was as if he liked it anyway, where I was like, well, what the fuck else is there of not female ramblings on this fucking podcast ramblings of being scared of being murdered when we're walking on the street. But still, I, my point is that everybody's looking

for a certain thing in a podcast. And so like, I love last podcast on the left, cause it's all the comedy I love. I adore Henry Sibrowski. Then you've got all this fucking research. So you're really being, there's so much takeaway. Like there's just all, there's so many choices. So we know that when you fly, you have a lot of choices in the air and thank you for flying with us. It is nice that like, we, you can talk, we talk about, I do like that we talk about other podcasts and how much we like them and we promote them because I, you know, yeah, we're not the only ones. We're doing something very specific, I think. Yeah. And, and yeah. And even like, I guess, Laura, someone did, I last week, mine was who put Bella and the Witch Elm and I think

they did it too. Last week? Yeah, I think so. So, but people love Laura. I keep hearing about that too. But I guarantee it's not the same thing that we did. No, no, no. No. All right. People love your Banksy comment by the way. Which was, what was it? That people were doing graffiti about who put Bella and the Witch Elm and you go, that's where Banksy started. Jesus. Oh, you. Hey, I'm Arisha and I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wanderer's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent

remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. Okay, Karen. So let's get into cannibalism. No, let's keep on talking about podcasting instead of actually doing it. That's what's really interesting. So I'm basically saying that when I looked, it's like Albert Fish. Check. We've, we've heard about it. We know about it. He's a fucking creepy old man. Then there was the guy. I did, I did it. Did you really?

No, yes. Go on. Did you really? I'm sorry, but I'm sure it's going to be great. Okay, go ahead. Shit. Sorry. I'm sorry. Now I'm afraid to say my second example, but this is, I'm just saying my thinking. I was trying to be exciting. I get it. You went classic. I didn't go classic. You did a classic. I basically what I was saying is I don't, I didn't feel like doing the serious homework because Albert Fish killed fucking 400 people. Yeah, there was a lot of info. So I kind of, I summarized. Okay, good. I went, uh, which I think you might like, because this is what you're just saying you like, kind of a one hit wonder killer. Dig it. It's the cannibal bus killer from Manitoba. And this was a thing that I remember. It happened in 2008. When it came on

the news, I was by myself in my house, of course, and I was staring at the TV like what is happening. And so here in a nutshell, if you've never heard it, it's insane on a gray town bus and they were going between Manitoba and Brandon, which I believe is a very small town and it's a very long space between the two cities. So not a lot of places to stop and get food. Exactly. You're hungry. It's just all these people on this bus. And at noon, a man named Vincent Lee got on the bus and he went and he sat next to a guy named Tim McClain. Tim was asleep, wearing headphones, listening to music. He's a carnival worker and he's 22. And, um, at some point, an hour into the trip, at first, Lee was sitting up near the front near the bus driver. And then he went back and sat next to

McClain. Then he pulled out of machete. No, he started stabbing him. And he began to decapitate him. Have you ever seen a machete? No, in real life. Aren't those like really big? They're quite large. He had a concealed machete on his person. Oh, that's okay. So he begins to decapitate him. So the bus driver, everyone, of course, now this is me, uh, filling in the blank. I would imagine started screaming. Sure. Right. But you could probably do that quietly. Oh my God. Yeah. Or like the staring where you can't scream because you can't take in what's happening. No, I mean he could probably stab him, machete him quietly. Oh no. No, he didn't. He didn't. No, because he was standing and everyone was around. You know what I mean? Like it's a bus filled with people.

The bus driver pulls over, opens the door, everyone runs off. He, there was, they didn't, the chronology didn't seem clear to me, but it sounded like a couple of the men and the bus driver tried to go back to do something about it. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. And, uh, the killer had decapitated him and was holding his head up. He was already decapitated. And so they got off the bus. Was he decapitated? Was he, was his head off before he died? You die. You die. Once you cut that jugular, it goes very quickly. And also he was stabbed in the chest and in the neck. I fucking hate cannibals. I hate this topic. This is, it's a terrible fucking topic. So, and this is, I think, the worst of. I went, I went as bad as you can go. I did too. Yeah, yours

is horrible. Um, so let me get through mine. So, uh, they lock, they close the bus doors and, um, they, and, and barricade it somehow. I think someone said that they threw up like a crowbar or something so that the bus doors wouldn't open. The fucking guy, Vincent Lee, holds out the decapitated head and there's witnesses, eyewitness statements that say that he looked completely calm, like nothing was happening and held it out. And they, this one guy said dropped it on the ground. I don't know if that meant he held it out of the bus window and dropped it on the ground, but that usually Greyhound bus windows don't work like that. So held it out and then dropped it inside the bus or whatever. And he was completely calm

while he was doing that. Completely calm. And then, uh, started being his, his own head against the window really hard over and over. And so what, what is happening? And this is, as I was putting this together, I was like, Oh, cops come. Like this is a, this is a one-off. This is, you know, whatever the crazy attack, like a berserk moment, the end, but they're so far out in the middle of nowhere. It takes the cops, it's, this happened. Um, they got on the bus at noon and the cops showed up at eight 30 at night. No. So, so I think there were a couple, like an hour or so into this trip, but like they were, they had to sit on the side of the road. I would have later. So hard. Well, yeah, you just fucking go running, but you're out in the middle

of nowhere. And what was that? I don't know. Someone's getting murdered. That was a weird, I think it hopefully was laughing. It was laughing because my neighbors like to play beer pong. Oh, okay. Yeah, we're fine. Jesus Christ. So, no, it was, it was a maniacal. It sounded like a human sized chicken. It was a maniacal human chicken cackle. And I'm just picturing this. So it's like, you're sitting, there's, so there's a guy having a psychotic episode trapped, trapped on the bus. And so as he, he's either pacing back and forth on the bus or what has, as they say in the Wikipedia article, defiling the body. So I went into a couple articles, I know it's great, but it was over for him fast. I just, let's both hold on to that family. Like,

no, they're, it's awful for them. It's terrible. Imagine living your life for 22 years, just to be defiled on a greyhound bus of all places. I'm sure you did other great stuff though. Probably. I mean, focus on that. But here's the thing. So he's either, because let's not go too far down that because it's going to ruin this part where I say, where I say, he was either pacing up and down or defiling the body, which meant he poked out the eyes. Nope. Uh-huh. He was cutting off body parts. When, when they, when the cops finally got there and they finally, it was one 30 in the morning when they finally tased him because they couldn't figure out how to, oh, one point, sorry. At one point, the killer tried to drive the bus away and the bus driver

had like a, one of those things, like a remote making the bus not drive away, you know, those things. Were people, do you think people were watching? I feel like I wouldn't watch. They said that people were sitting huddled on the side of the road crying and vomiting. Yeah. Freaking out. Sounds about right. But you're like kind of stuck there. I'm sure you're trying not to go away from, and you don't know where this guy is going to go. Like I would, are people driving by? Can you hitchhike? I mean, maybe, but like you're also in a state of shock. That's like the craziest thing to witness close up. So when they got him off the bus, they had to bag up the body. It was so badly attacked. And his nose, and his nose, ears, and tongue was in this killer's

pockets. Pockets? He'd put them in his pockets. Oh my Lord. And he had also been eating him in that period of time. And at one point he started screaming, I will be on this bus forever. What was, so where did we find out about him? So it turns out this was a man who had very bad schizophrenia. He was a Chinese immigrant who moved to Canada, who was like a computer engineer in China, moved to Canada, and of course had a bunch of shitty jobs, three jobs at a time, doing a lot of traveling. In 2004, he started, and when he was like, I think in his early 30s, he started hearing the quote unquote voice of God. And so he had already been picked up once before for like the voice of God, and been telling him to go here and go there and like the cops picked him up.

So, but he didn't know what schizophrenia was. And so he was untreated for any, any mental problem. So when this came around, he'd already been doing a bunch of weird shit. He had the machete on him. He had sold his laptop for 60 bucks to a kid at a bus stop. Well, that's how you know he's crazy is 60 bucks. 60 bucks. It was a Dell. But he, and he had become convinced that God wanted him to kill because aliens were going to attack. And it was the only way that people could be saved. He had the voice had told him that this guy sitting on this bus, he had to be killed to save everybody else. I mean, how do you argue with that? What reality is subjective? Yeah. And he's, he has no idea. Like he's not in anywhere close to reality anymore.

Yeah. There's no break and be like, Oh, shit, I'm not doing well. No, no, no. No, he's fully like doing what the voices tell him mode. And on top of all of that, I mean, not just like, you've seen schizophrenic people on the street. He's in, he's way past that because he fucking ate parts of this guy. So now he's, um, so that happened in 2008. The most recent article I found was from February 26, 2016. He has been in a mental hospital all this time and slowly, but surely since he's been on this medication, Oh, when he was arrested, um, he just kept killing people to kill him. So he was like, he knew what he did. He like became aware slowly, but surely, or maybe that was in court when he, when he first appeared in court, he said,

you should kill me. I want to die. Um, then I read another interview with him that was from like two years ago where someone said, are you happy? And he said, no. And then he said, I will never be happy. Um, but the most recent article with that, I can live with him never being happy. Well, how could you be? I mean, like it's a horrifying thing. If you get sane, you have the realization that you did this thing. Yes. Go on. So yeah, he's in a prison, but, uh, he just won the right to, to live on his own. And his, he's changed his name to Will Baker. Explain my face right now. Yeah. George's entire face dropped four inches when I just said he, he won the right to live on his own. Yeah. They, in Canada, it's like basically he's

solely, but surely, and he's thoroughly monitored, monitored. So it just means he doesn't live in a group home. I just rolled my ass so hard. My head hurts. I know. It's, you should see these Reddit the conversations that people are having between we, you know, mentally ill people need to be able to learn to live in reality and people going, he ate this man's eyes. Like crazy. As someone with like basic run of the mill depression and anxiety, I know that the first instinct when you start taking pills and they work is just that you say, I'm fine now and you stop taking them. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That's, yeah. That's the instinct. And with this guy, which several people argued on Reddit, when he stopped taking his pills, people get eaten and macheteed on a bus.

It's crazy. It's very terrible. At the time, Grayhound was running an ad campaign that was, there's a reason you've never heard of bus rage and they had to cancel that campaign. And also bullshit from the beginning. Have you been on a fucking grayhound? Yeah. Exactly. The grayhound is one of the scariest ways. I took one right in my life and it was very pleasant. It was from San Francisco to here, but I fucking know how not normal that is. How old were you? 27. Because when I was like in eighth grade, I took the grayhound bus from Petaluma to Yukaya. Your parents let you do that? Yeah. I think my mom thought it would be like good experience or whatever, which is like, yeah, you'd think, oh yeah, nothing can happen. Like

what would happen? Anything can fucking happen. Anything. I mean, whenever. Especially when we clearly have known from this podcast from the beginning that everything terrible that has ever happened happens in Northern California. Yeah. That's it. There's like, there's like the early meth era. Oh, totally. I mean, we did meth before anybody did. Oh man, you and I are like original math heads. O, G, meth crew. Yeah. Yeah. It's like biker math. Totally. Crazy. And there was also PETA tried to run an ad in the local newspaper about comparing this murder to eating animals. And the newspaper was like, get fuck yourself. Yeah. Which I love. Get fuck yourself is what I'm going to say when someone sneezes for now. Get fuck yourself. Did she just say, she didn't

just, she did not say that to me. And I guess in, in closing and in summation, if you go read the details of this, there's, what was his name again? So we can look it up. His name, the killer's name was Vincent Lee L I is how he spells last name L I, but he has legally changed it to Will Baker now. And I'm sure that people are, there's death threats left, right in center for this guy. So I don't, it's such a terrible scenario. But yeah, I, I feel like I was trying to suss out my feelings on it. And it's like, I, yeah, I feel like after you machete and eat a person on a bus, you don't, you just don't get to ever leave a mental hospital, even if your pills work. No. Even if you're sad. Totally. Especially if you're sad. Yeah. This is okay. I gotta say part

of the reason I did, I chose Albert Fish is because I didn't want to choose someone who's still alive because the majority of those people who have fucking done this are out of prison. Yeah. And I didn't want to piss off some satanic fucking vampire cannibalist person. Yeah. That makes sense. I highly doubt he can get a passport though. So I feel really guilty about what I said about Albert Fish because I couldn't be more interested. I don't care. I mean, I care. Are you going to stop texting me? I need you in my life. I meant that I know that you did. You weren't being negative about it. Okay. The reason is there anything you want to add to that? I'm sorry. I cut you off. No, no, no. No, just, you know, watch out for machetes. That is a good one off one because

I do. It is interesting that this person just, they didn't just snap. No. No, that's untreated a mental illness, advanced mental illness. If you think God is talking to you, if you think aliens are doing anything, you need pills. Listen, we all wish aliens and ghosts existed, but you're probably just mentally ill. It could be that or you look, even if, even if they do or whatever. But if God is telling you stuff, that's when you got to like, you really have to go to the doctor. Please. My cat tells me stuff all the time. Oh, I'm sure that's fine. But it's usually sweet stuff. Should we stop the podcast now? It's sweet stuff. Kill your name. Kill your name. In the sweetest voice. I love you. Kill your name.

All right. So I did Albert Fish because it troubled me so much when I first heard about it because I think it was like, it was one of his first kidnapping was in 1924. So yeah, his first kidnapping was in 1924, which is like one of the earliest recorded. Nope. It's just an early kidnapping, which I'm always fascinated with. Oh, did you think I was arguing with you? Yeah, I was going like, holy fuck, like, nope. I thought you were shaking your head. No, no, I was thinking about like, that's back before phone. Probably most people had phones in their house, right? This is like so early days of like, if a kid goes missing, they're like, they're at their friends. Well, they, yeah. And because especially, you know, these are all in the lot of people are immigrants,

child labor is a thing. So kids, kids aren't kids. They're tiny hands to do day labor with. It's like the Dark Ages. Yeah. 1924. Yeah. In New York City. So yeah. So it's actually, I'm sorry, it's Hamilton Howard, quote, Albert Fish, born in 1870. He's known as the gray man, the werewolf of Wisteria, the Brooklyn vampires, the moon maniac, and the boogeyman. Oh, he's the boogeyman. Yeah. I've heard a lot about him. Yes. So he was born. His mom put him into an orphanage pretty early and he was immediately treated statistically. So like, he was like bred to be a serial killer. Yeah. Then he began to enjoy the physical pain, which is like, oh, you're double acillary. And then he remarked on his time at the orphanage, I was there until I was nearly

nine. And that's when I got started wrong. We were unmercifully whipped. I saw boys doing many things that they should not have done. I don't know what accent I was going for in that whole entire thing. I liked it. It was, it was a light British. Thank you. It was kind of like a Catherine Hepburn thing. Oh, thank you. You know, high class. Yeah. I'm wearing pants. So, okay. So there's all this, there's all, I'm going to paraphrase it. There's a lot of shit about him being into weird stuff like drinking urine and learning about eating bodies and how good it tasted and like lots of little things like that. And as a kid? As a kid. And as he grew up, um, he had, he had six children that he never physically attacked supposedly. Wow. Which is

bananas. Um, although he did encourage them and their friends, how embarrassing would this be to paddle his buttocks with the same nail studded paddle he used to abuse himself. Sounds like a real fun guy. Like, so you're at your friend's house like, Hey, come over and we'll play with this hoop and stick like we like to 20s. And then the dad comes down, I was like, guys, come over here, paddle my butt with, with nails and a board. How did that even, I mean, I'm telling, I'm telling, I'm telling. Yeah. Yeah. So he got into raw meat. Um, he started severing from psychosis. He got into raw meat. He started eating raw meat because he was like obsessed with cannibalism. He felt that God was commanding him to torture and sexually mutilate children. Ding, ding,

red flag. Hey, call the cops on yourself. Oh, yeah. So the, the murder that really stuck out for me of him that I've always was so troubled with. And when I think back about murder, I think of this was Grace Bud. Basically, fish saw a classified ad in the Sunday edition of the New York world that read young man 18 wishes position in country. So he basically answered an ad for for someone eating work in Manhattan. He visited the family under the pretense of hiring this guy. And later he confessed that he was actually going to kill this guy. And then he met the daughter, Grace Bud, and was like, nope, going to kill this one and eat her instead. So let's see. He, he met Grace and he made a story about having to attend his niece's birthday party.

And this is the fucking time they just let her go with this nicely dressed probably old man who came to their house to respond to a wanted ad. Yeah, but he had come a couple of times, which is like trusted best friends. Yep. And like, you let your kids go places and that thing of like always trusting authority. Yeah, it's like, Oh, he's got a pocket watch. Nothing can happen. Yeah. My mom's doctor as a child made out with her as a small child. And you because you just and she didn't tell anyone because you just fucking trust authority you trust grownups. Should I not have told that? It's okay. My mom doesn't have the last name is me. So it's yeah, you just trust well, it's mind blowing. It's just mind blowing of like a doctor

you would never I would never think that. Yeah, it's that thing of like, I wonder what I have said something back then, you know, if an older person doesn't think inappropriate, you trust you trust them. And if they're good, they know how to shame you and to keep your mouth shut. Totally. Well, he convinced the parents to let Grace accompany him to the party that evening. And he Grace left with fish and never returned. And then he sent them a fucking letter. I'm going to read a part of it. Okay. So he was talking about cannibalism and about the olden days and saying that there was a famine in China meat of any kind was from $1 to $3 a pound. So great was the suffering among the very poor that all children under 12 were sold for food in order

to keep others from starving. A boy or girl under 14 was not safe in the street. You could go in any shop and ask for steak. And part of the naked body of a boy or girl would be brought out and just what you wanted cut from it. This is why I had a problem with cannibalism is the majority of it was with children. Yes. And sorry, this is his letter to the family. This is word for word part of his letter. I don't think I've ever read any of this before. Let's fucking hear and then here's more on Sunday, June 3rd, 1928, I called on you. I brought pot, cheese and strawberries. We had lunch. Grace sat in my lap and kissed me. I made up my mind to eat her on the pretense of taking her to a party. You said yes, she could go. I took her to an empty house in Westchester. I had already

picked out there's some fucked up things about it that I I'm not reading because it really, they really, really troubled me more so than me eating her. Basically, he says how sweet and tender her little ass was roasted in the oven. It's troubled me to my core and it probably is troubling people listening to this right now, which is why I'm like, why am I reading this one? Because everyone's already read it. Here's the thing about Albert Fish. You hear you read those first two, you read the byline of Albert Fish, which is like cannibal molested and killed 400 children or whatever that crazy number is. You're going to be you're going to get to this part no matter what. He was a fucking sadist. Yeah. Like when it comes to torture and molestation and all of this

then torturing the family. Yeah. He wrote he wrote multiple letters to people he could kidnap their families. A psychiatrist described him as looking like a meek and innocuous little old man, gentle and benevolent, benevolent, friendly and polite. If you wanted someone to entrust your child to you, he would be the one you chose. And if you'd look him up what you can, there's a fucking his mug shot and a couple shots from him in the court. He looks like a little old meek man. I want to look him up right now. Do it. Just so I get the visual. He boasted that he had children in every state and that one time stated that the number was about 100. It's not known whether he was referring to rapes or cannibalism, nor is it known if the statement was truthful.

He confessed to molesting more than 400 children over 20 years and is believed to have murdered somewhere between six and 15 children. He confessed to all these and he was electrocuted. When he was electrocuted in Singsing, he said that the electrocution would be the supreme thrill of my life. Just before the switch was flipped, he said, I don't even know why I'm here and legend has it. And I think this isn't a legend. This is true that his execution took longer because he was really into stuffing needles up his penis. And they numerous needles inserted into his privates disrupted the flow of electricity. You know how fucking orphanage and being raped and tortured as a child? Are you looking at him right now?

Yeah, but there's also people. This is why I love the Internet. His face is very disturbing. The eyes are dead. The eyes are no good. But then people are making what look like inspirational posters. Because he looks like Albert Einstein a little bit. It's like he says none of us are saints. Albert Fish is the quote. He's a little like he's a little Henry Fordy looking. Exactly. So you wouldn't know. Yeah. And he does look his his cheeks are all sunken. Yeah. So he looks like he couldn't do anything to anybody. He looks weak. Totally. That's hilariously hideous. Man, I'm so glad we live in these these days and times when you when you drive your children from your front door to wherever they're going. And you don't ever let your daughter

never Greyhound bus to you, Kaya. Oh my God, you kidding me? I would never. It's so crazy. What if how old were you when you did that? I believe I was 12. So your niece is 11. My niece is nine. Okay. Let's say she's yeah, in two, three years that she's going to take she's going to take a four hour Greyhound if you hurt your sister, let her do that. Never come and fucking smack your sister in the face. I would call the police on my own sister. I don't even know what I would do. The funniest thing is the Greyhound bus like the bus is is the the mode of transportation for people who have lost their driver's license for some terrible reason. Yeah. Like there's not great. It's not a great collection of souls. No. I mean, look at an airplane and that's expensive.

Yeah, it's a bunch of fucking assholes and depraved human beings and you can't take your shoes off and stick them on the wall in front of you and then add to that that you can stop and get fucking fried chicken and bring it on. Not that I don't like fried chicken, but like, but it doesn't smell good after what this is the thing. There was a guy that took his shoes off next to me when I flew back from New York. Nope. A couple of weekends ago. And I wanted to turn him say you are high if you don't think your feet smell. My feet are right in front of your face right now. Yeah, but you're you're clearly your shoes have been off all day. This guy literally was like take both shoes off like first time his shoes had been off in a while now and they stunk

and I was just like, what are you doing? And then he took out his machete and then he stabbed me in the neck, severed my head, held it out, dropped it on the ground. I hope we never get stabbed. Yeah, I hope you know what I hope I never and if you haven't seen 10 cloverfield lane, I recommend it. It was a real thrill ride. Yes, I want to see that. But here's a spoiler alert. So if this was going to bug you, don't listen. Okay, for the next 15 seconds, it has those things that makes me so angry in a movie where suddenly someone gets t-boned in their car. It's like a real life car accident out of nowhere out of nowhere. That's what I hope doesn't happen to me because it makes me so mad. Like when that happens in a movie, they surprise

the shit out of you. And it's so fucking loud and it's so real. It's glass everywhere. That's why I hate, I was watching a TV show the other day and there was no car accident in it. There was no reason for me to, it's like a togetherness on HBO. There's no reason for there to be a car accident. But the guy was not looking at the road so much that I couldn't concentrate on what they were saying because I was waiting for them to get fucking t-boned. Just look at the road or have this conversation and not a car. Yes. Or just people have conversations looking forward all the time. Yeah. Wait, Albert Fish molested how many kids? Hundreds, right? Yeah, he says that he, one time stated the number was about 100. He confessed to molesting more than 400

children over 20 years. So he's probably lying. Yeah, how does he even get around that many kids? Although he did have six of his own. Right. But supposedly he didn't quote abuse them, but what does that mean? Well, but they, but their friends would come on. I mean, he's having paddling sessions. Probably weird too is that his wife left him and left the children. Do you think she was just so, I mean, who the fuck leaves their children with what is probably a psychopath and she knows it? Yeah, that's horrifying. Or she was just like, I got to get out. But you gotta wonder what happened. Like someone we know is an ancestor of Albert Fish because we've been to New York a lot. That's right. We know a lot of people. That's true. Like

he probably still had, but that, you know, they all changed their name. This guy's so famous. Probably like there's someone who's like a third cousin. I want to talk about how, how weird it is. Sorry, go ahead. I was like, I don't know what cousin, third great cousin. I don't know. Yeah. Some distant relative. Just how weird it is that somebody would get off on eating someone. What connection, like, like when people get molested and then they become molesters, it's because it happened to them. They, it's association or whatever. But like, you've never eaten a person before the first time you eat a person. It's, I would imagine, in my mind, it's this narcissistic, it's the ultimate taboo. Yes. That's true. And you're

going to break it. Yeah. And, and that this means you're on top. Yeah. That's true. Especially a child. That's what really about this cannibalism thing is like, so many parents who've been their children that are like couldn't, it was very hard for me to pick one. Yeah. Just one. That's very true. Also, you know, it's interesting. Have you ever heard of the family, Sony bean, which was the, the Scottish family that lived in a huge cave and they would, this was like in the 1600s, I think. Oh my god, no. And they would pick travelers off of the road. And so people would go and disappear and like the, I can't remember was like the Scottish Highlands or Northern England. And they end up the cops

find this cave and it's this huge family and all these bones. And basically they are just eating people or whatever. And so for years, you heard, I heard this story. I was like, that's so fascinating. They should make a movie about it. Blah, blah, blah. I think they may have tried to. Well, of course, because this is the era that we live in now. It's always the era of that didn't really happen. And apparently that was the whole Sony bean family lore was made up by the British, like British political people to be like, this is what the Scottish are like. That's why they need to be savages. Yeah. They're savages. They need to be invaded and they need to be ruled. Not surprised by that at all. Yeah. Oh, that scared the shit out of me. Hi, men. Come in. Hi. We're

talking about cannibals and then the door unlocked and their Pete and pizza came in. That's how they get you. They open the door with a key. Care to that scary. It scared me a lot. Okay, I'm going to read you a couple things. Or should we save it for the mini so. No, do it. Okay. So I put I was watching a murder show today. 48 hours on ID. And they said something that made me laugh. And so I put it on the Facebook group and I said, does this make you guys laugh? What makes you laugh? And it was that they quote said, life seemed to move a little slower there when they were describing the town, which is like fucking grizzly murder happened. And like, well, if life seems to look just to move a little slower

in your town, chances are someone's going to get murdered. And I said, what are other classic triggers? And here's what some people wrote. So like the things that they say in these murders. So think of this as in Keith Morrison, Morrison's voice. Quiet and unassuming means they're going to be killing people. He mostly kept to himself is deaf a murderer. Yeah, this is what people wrote. She lit up a room when she walked in, we're going to get murdered. He was such a nice guy totes murderer. She really did get along with everyone murdered murdered vivacious murdered, full of potential murdered as hell. Unassuming equals assume murder. Very successful father plus charity volunteering tennis playing

mom equals one of the kids is going to off them for the money. Yeah, she had everything going for her. If someone has suffered years of bad luck and shitty life circumstances only to find that lately everything is working out and that life is indeed worth living murdered quote from the outside it was picture perfect equals dad is stealing money and everyone is about to be murdered. Yes. If she loves to run, she's going to get murdered like jogging. Yeah. She had just turned her life around. She got off drugs got sober and got a very good job equals she's a goner. Yes. Yeah, if he'd give you the shirt off his back, he's going to get murdered. Yeah, yes. Someone wrote world wind romance equals Molly you a danger girl.

Instant best friends with everyone never met a stranger. It means every it says every date line opening ever never met a stranger meet a fucking stranger right now and then you do it all. You know what you should meet strangers. You're an idiot. Someone says it was such a nice night for sleeping with the windows open. And then I'll read one more. Oh, he loved her very much and wanted to show her the view from his favorite mountain peak slash hiking trail. And so that your smile better not light up a room. That's so true. My version of that but it's not going to be the poetic version but it's just basically the guy that's the doctor. Yeah. It's any doctor on any of their shows.

Yeah, they always they always kill everybody like super nice doctor with the rich wife. Another the maybe she yeah maybe she's comes from a rich family and like what are you getting into medical school? Yes. Yeah. And then he's got now he's got a 21 year old and he's going to kill his wife. If one of you got if one of the married couple got the other one into debt, the one who got into debt is going to kill the other one. Yes. The one who owes. Yep. Yep. Does the deed. Yeah. Why not? Just kill him. So that means everyone getting to debt before your loved one can. So it'll kill you. It's a race to the bottom. You're worth nothing to them. Why would they kill you? And ask for no money when you divorce them.

Otherwise you're going to die. That's hilarious. This is what you learned. That's like the city confidential isn't on anymore but that's I used to love that one because the narrative is like it was a sleepy little towel and an enclave. It's always an enclave. It was an enclave and he always sounded a little drunk, which I loved. That was that guy that was from Star Wars. Was it really? Yes. I shouldn't know that. Well, should we tell a woman where to find us? Yes. Okay. We are at what's your address? My home address is okay. No, Karen Kilgariff at Twitter. Karen Kilgariff at Twitter. G Hardstock at Twitter. We're at My Fave Murder. My Fave Murder. At Twitter. And then you can

email us your hometown murder, which we're probably going to do a little episode eventually of a bunch of your stories at My Favorite Murder at Gmail. And please join the Facebook group at My Favorite Murder Facebook group. I don't know. It's a closed group so you have to join to fucking get into the murder action. Oh, and here's an important thing that was making me laugh. People wrote this a lot. If you are from Canada or the UK or Europe of any kind. Oh, yeah. There's no you in favorite, you fool. People kept writing. Well, I didn't realize you guys spelled favorite incorrectly. Incorrectly. Yeah, fair enough. Fine. I mean, we spelled it second. So we already kissed their ass in the beginning for listening.

You know what? We saved your asses in Vietnam. No, I'm kidding. I don't think that doesn't even mean anything. What if I believe that? We saved your asses in Vietnam in the Korean War. We saved you. That is the best thing to say to somebody. A French person. We saved your ass. Oh, I thought you were talking about our listeners. You know, you guys, we saved your asses in Vietnam. Yeah. But to say to a French person who has to hear that about World War II all the time. Yep. Which isn't true. And you just get the war wrong. Yeah. Completely wrong. I love it. We saved your asses in the Civil War. You should be thanking me. That gave me for your freedom. I think that's all right. That's everything. Oh, tonight's the last episode of The Simpsons.

It's A.K.A. all of our girls. We're gonna watch that so hard. Are you in danger girl? Oh, Jay, you in danger girl. Okay, we're gonna watch. We're both gonna watch that. And then we're gonna talk about it next week. Yes. Because I bet it's gonna be good. Do you think he gets off? What if he does? What if they take it in a new direction? I mean, why the fuck not? It's a creative reimagining. Yeah. All right. That's it for us. Thanks for listening so much. Please rate, review and subscribe and tell a friend about it. Yeah. And most of all, stay sexy. Okay. Bye. We saved you in Vietnam. Bye.