My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 113 - Live at Kingsbury Hall in Salt Lake City

Episode Date: March 22, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover killer Ronnie Lee Gardner and the Salt Lake City Library hostage incident.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. What's up? What's up? So like sit it. Yes. Yes, we've got to choreograph that dance, we've got to.

Someday. Hi best friends, what's up? Hi. There is so many opportunities for screaming at these shows. Shit. It looks like there's a ghost walking somewhere in their seat up there. Do you guys have ghost stushers here? Because we did not approve that.

Is that the undead screaming in the back? What's happening? Oh, huge zombie contingent tonight. Yeah. We love it. They're like there haven't been zombies in this theater for 25 years. That's right. They've done out all the hits for the live show.

Since 1990. Thanks. I just want to point this out really quick. I stopped curling my hair right about here. Can you tell? I was just like this sucks. I'm bored. If you can't see it.

Then it's not there. Just always keep your head real turned. Don't come up on your hind quarter at all. Just keep it. Hey, hey, hey. Keep it to the Farrah Fawcett area. You wanted me to remind you live corrections corner. Oh, you want to do it right off the top?

Oh, do you? Fresh and sure. I guess I do. Guys. So the episode dropped today. It happens every Thursday. Thank you. It's easy. You can do it yourself.

You just upload it onto a computer. It's crazy. Get yourself a Steven. Make him do everything. No, he's not here. He's not here. Although, Yeah, no, we don't bring him.

But doesn't it look like someone's standing under here? We brought Steven's favorite skirt to use as the table cover. He's very shy. So he's bent at the waist under this table. We need a moment of silence for the relationship between Jennifer and Jennifer Aniston. What's his face?

We'll just call him Matt. We'll just call him Matt from now on. Matt? Matt. It doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter. He looks really good on her arm, I must say. I never bought it.

Brad destroyed her. And everything after that was it was a look at what I can do. Good for her. Right? But then there's this already, already came out today that they're breaking up and then it's like everyone's rooting for Brad Pitt

and Jennifer Aniston back together. Nobody cares. Nobody is. You broke up with someone and everyone's like remember that guy who cheated on you ten fucking years ago? Everyone's hoping you guys get back together. Marry him for the second mistaken time. You know how he has ten kids?

Everyone wants you to get back together with him. Being a stepmom to ten is amazing. Yeah. Fuck that shit. Did I ever tell you this story that I know that's the secret Burbank story? No. Okay, this day is here in the vault.

SLC. You're in the vault now. Can I trust you? With a secret? It's not really a secret. It's a thrift store on Riverside in Burbank. Mm-hmm.

And the word on the street is, you know, it's the American Heart and Lung Association thrift store. All the old ladies are just fucking smoking butts all day. But the word on the street is that because it's the one that's the closest to the Warner Brothers Studios

where they shot television show Friends. And when it first came out that Brad Pitt was cheating on Jennifer Aniston with Angelina Jolie when they were shooting some wonderful film in like in Greece or somewhere. It was that Greek one.

Yeah, we know. Let's not talk about it. She took all of his clothes out of his mansion closet and drove it on down to the American Heart and Lung Association thrift store and dropped every item

of clothing at this... Now, it's Brad Pitt's clothes. Yeah. So they're all $11,000 shirts. And they smell incredible. They smell. I always just bought them to slay face down in a pile of...

No, I wouldn't. Vince, I wouldn't have done that. They're like, do you want to smell what luck smells like? Yeah, and so for... Normally, there's a lot of wicker chairs and there's a lot of pictures of the Orient for sale

in this thrift store and then some paperback books by James Patterson. God bless us all. But then for like, I'm sure eight wonderful days it was just filled with like the highest end clothing. That's all I can guess.

Hugo Boss. What's high end men's clothing? Michael Kors. We'll name everything we've seen in Macy's. Norts from Rack. What do they have? That's all I know. Cole Hawn slip on shoes.

There you go. What about your outfit? Do you want to talk about it a little bit? Well, LA shop at vintage stores. I don't know any names of designers and now no one can blame me for wearing cheap shit because it's old. It's vintage.

It's old. It's fine. So this is an old dress. Thank you. Walk it down the rug. Yeah. They love it. Oh, a full square. She's doing square footage.

Loving it. You just invented the new runway. Gorgeous rectangle of rug. On a gorgeous rug. Oriental rug. Oriental rug. We demand it. Thank you whoever brought this from home.

We really appreciate you letting your foyer go bare for us this evening while we enjoy touching it and loving it. It'll be for sale outside in the lobby after the show. What are you wearing? Uh-uh.

I almost said what are you doing? What are you doing over there? Well, I can't find shirts that fit me and I don't try to find them. I was going to buy, I swear to God, like nine o'clock at CVS. I was going to buy a black shirt

that said Burbank on the front of it. Represent. Because I'm a joke. It'll be fine. It'll be great. This is the last weekend away of this tour I just realized.

We're capping it off at SLC. Double fucking shows here. Yes. University of Utah. You guys are the ones. We're doing two shows here because the first show last night, tomorrow night, where are we?

Sometime this week. It's sold out already. We have a lot of fans who didn't wake up early. But die of. And then email, put us on Twitter saying, I don't know the show, it's sold out. Angry at us. That's what we did for you. Well done. Thank you for your advocacy.

We only listen to anger. Thank you for using your anger constructively. That's what we mean. Use it to bring us places. Uh-huh. That's the way to do it. Oh, this is my favorite murder, the podcast. Yeah.

This is Karen Kilgarov. This is Georgia Hardstar. Thank you. Lots of screaming time. We're the two voices in your head while you drive or work or are supposed to be doing something else.

That's right. I wrote down on this piece of paper to talk about a smell like a rave. Because a rave? Uh-oh. The R shampoo and things in the hotel room smell like me when I would go to raves.

It's just this like a Victoria's Secret body spray smell. It smells like grinding teeth. Yeah. What is that? Chew's powder? The powder of my own molars? When you got the first wave

of the smell of raves, what was your first emotional reaction to that smell? Uh-huh. And then... How do we both know delight perfectly? It's amazing. Because my friend Dave Messmer

one time when we were in fake college, I dropped out. I met him at the JC in the drama department. He didn't be gay yet, but he had the hugest poster of Madonna on his apartment wall

that when I walked in, I went, oh, no. Were you hoping to make out? And then you're like, ah, shit. Fuck, fuck, whatever. But he is my lifelong best friend and... Wait, what?

I thought... I thought I was... You've known me two years. Whoops! I thought I was your lifelong. You have actually pulled ahead of most people. Ah! I mean, it's not hard really even fucking Hollywood. It's like everyone's the worst person.

I mean, I had the choice of her or her husband Vince. That was pretty much it in terms of quality people in Los Angeles. Should we tell them what the three of us did for Valentine's Day last night? Yeah. We had a record

on Valentine's Day, and then I was like, we were talking at like two, and we're like, let's do it early. I'm like, what if Steven has Valentine's Day plans? And then it turns out none of us have Valentine's Day plans. Well, this is the best Steven goes... We go, so as we're leaving, I was like, Vince, we should have them stay and like eat pizza or whatever,

you know, for Valentine's Day. And so we asked you, and you're like, right. Of course I'm like, yes. Fine. And then we asked Steven, and we're like, you gotta pause. We're like, oh, do you have a date? And he's like, I have to work on this podcast recording. He had to go home

and cut out all the bullshit dumb parts, not fix the date. Yeah. His date was work. With us. The two meanest girls in his life. No. Immediately we were like, bye, have a good night.

Go, go. Get out of here. I gave him some, one of those chocolate things that we love. The Buckeyes. Oh yeah, we have some Buckeyes. So he's fine. He was fine. Buckeyes from Ohio, right? Yeah.

You guys know. So we were just in Ohio and people gave us repeatedly everywhere we went. Humongous balls of peanut butter covered in chocolate. And it would be like in a Tupperware container or whatever. I had my mother make these for you all night last night. We don't question it.

We just fucking eat them. We just fucking plowed them down. Should we sit down? Yeah, we might as well. Oh, look at this. I'm going to stay over here. Are you going to go way over there?

Yeah. This is one of the safest heights you can sit at. At a cocktail table. I guess I heard that in Utah they don't let you sit any higher than this after. That's right. After midnight. You're not allowed to sit

over eight inches above the plane of the table. This is so if you get secretly drunk at your house you can just put your head on that table. No, go ahead. I'm listening. I'm listening to your story. I'm going to wear this.

You should make this into a beautiful skirt. This might be the solution to my dress problem. I just slip it over my shoes and then I walk out like fucking mom and chance type of shit. Here, they gave you this. Listen to a tube top.

That's gorgeous. What is this? Some sort of cloth that they cut from a drape? Yeah, I know theater terms. I'm of the theater. Oh, the end of that Dave story. Oh, yeah. My second best friend in the world is

we were at a party one night and we got insanely high to the point where we could only sit on the couch and I was definitely having a panic attack. For sure, but I hadn't had one and I was like, it's all ending now. I'm so young. And then I realized I wasn't

dying. It was just that Dave wouldn't stop lip-syncing the D-Lite album at me from the side. So he was like, lip-syncing people when you're fucking really high. Yeah, so he's just like D. Pending.

Just like, please don't make me. That's not even a good D. Light song either. No, it's just the first one. And then he continued to do it for the rest. Jesus Christ. Look, I'm not here to complain about Dave. I am.

That's what your murder is? Dave. Oh, he didn't know I killed him real quick. I took care of Dave for you. Dave Messmer, everybody. I'm gonna kill him. Oh, I feel like we should think even though they probably didn't do it.

This place caught Ted Bundy. So thanks, Utah. Salt Lake City. Thanks, guys. I missed the verb. Hot. But I thought it happened in Florida.

No, he got out. He escaped from here, right? Oh, I see. When he jumped out of the jail window and then ran up the hill. No, it's a different time. Hi. He escaped from Colorado. Sorry, hold on a second.

She's still yelling and she started but she goes, hi, I'm Celine Beck. Oh, shit. You're the documentary filmmaker. Get up here. Oh, shit. Get over here. I didn't even.

I didn't know. Oh, my God. I thought it was just an audience member that's like, you need to know my first and last name before I tell you Ted Bundy facts. Holy shit. Here.

There's Vince. Get over here. Steven is absolutely fired. He told us you can't. You're coming tomorrow night. And so that's why we didn't know. This was a secret. Oh.

But you immediately started yelling the second you had the chance. I know the rules, but as soon as you said Ted Bundy escaped from here, I was like, no, no, no, no. Let me tell you. Just say it. How do we get it wrong just now? So Ted escaped twice from Colorado.

Okay. The second time is when he went to Ann Arbor and then went to Florida for his final killings. Girl. Tell everyone what you do and what's happening. I know, but maybe we didn't catch up today. It's so exciting. Hi. So I am the director

of Theodore the Documentary. That's coming up. Did you hear us talk about you? We talked about you. We talked about you this morning. I feel like my shit. So all everyone here has been tweeting at me, but I didn't want to say that I was coming tonight.

So hi. Hi. I'm so glad you introduced yourself. I feel bad. You're great. Thank you. Bye. You're going to stay for the show, right?

Oh, fuck yeah. If we have any questions, we'll ask you. Thank you. You were like, and her name I said, like, oh shit, wait. That's the best thing of all time. I just thought it was like, she was basically like,

thought she was at a town hall meeting where she's like, hey Beck and I'm on the actors track. I just want to let you know you're pretty much wrong about everything all the time. Okay. Thanks for podcasting. Perfection. We miss some shit sometimes.

I mean, could you imagine if people made documentaries where they're at least like, and then Ted Bundy 10 years after he actually did the thing. They just got everything wrong. Yep. Documentary.

Okay, here's the stuff we should have looked at a little closer. Listen. Listen. We're not perfectionists. Certainly. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, Hello Fresh has you covered.

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Hey, I'm Arisha. Welcome to our series podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston.

Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, she hid her true self

to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. I go first, right? Do you?

Yes. Did you go first last? Yes, yes, yes. I went first today. We've actually just caught up with ourselves podcasting wise. It's today, today. It's today in this world. Fuck.

All right. Could we have some oxygen rolled out onto the stage? So we heard that people have fainted on this stage before. My head is a little warm right now. I want to do it. Go down in the middle of this story. I'll do it. I'm here for it.

What if I have to pee and so I just pretend to faint so I can go pee and then come back? If you fake a seizure, you can pee during it. Oh. Yeah, that's what happens. Great, great. Grand mal, grand mal baby. Let it all go.

What if I actually have a seizure now and everyone thinks I'm faking? This isn't going to work. Just roll you up in this carpet. Okay. If anything happened to us, we would just be taken off the stage and Celine would be right up there

in one fucking second. I happen to have a PowerPoint presentation of all the times they've been wrong. That's exciting. It is. This is the story of the murderer, Ronnie Lee Gardner,

Utah. What a dick. Is this guy a real dick? He's a real dick. Okay. All right. This guy, Ronnie Lee Gardner, he's born in Salt Lake City, Utah. You've heard of it. January 16th, 1961.

Great. There we are. Don't get defensive about it. I'm establishing a time and a place. I see. He is the youngest of seven fucking children. It's not where you want to be. That's right. His father's a heavy drinker

and when Ronnie's a toddler, he's like, you know what, I'm going to start over and try this again and he leaves to start a new family. You gave it a shot and it didn't work, so maybe you shouldn't keep trying. You should get out of the family business and go into like mattresses or something. Right. It's not working for you.

You tried seven times. So soon after that, Ronnie, okay, Ronnie is an asshole. We hate him. However, he had really no chance not to be based on his childhood. I mean, it's bad. Okay. Let's do it.

Soon after, little baby Ronnie has found wandering the streets in a diaper malnourished. He just fucking walked away the way you used to do, but it was funny when you did it. That's right. Because I had like pigtails and we were in the country. And you were like supervised.

Yeah, that's true. It was lightly supervised. You were 1970s, something supervised. Which meant a truck drove by every once in a while. Which now would be child neglect. But back then it was how you parent. Wait, so how old was he when this happened? He was a toddler.

Oh, okay. He had a affair, comes in and does a failed to care petition, takes him into custody, but later returned him to his mother. And according to Ronnie, he was raised by an older sister and also he was sexually abused by his siblings.

Sometimes he and his sister Bonnie would run away and seek refuge. They'd be like, this home life sucks. Let's go somewhere safe like a hobo camp. No! By the time he's 10 years old, Ronnie is addicted to drugs and alcohol.

Which my mom bought me as he might have tried when I was 12. So mom, it's your fault. All of this is your fault. I made myself a wine spritzer when I was, I think I was in seventh grade. Me and my friend Holly drank our parents' liquor

and talked on the phone one time. Oh my God! Let's just chew it, who cares? You thought you were so sophisticated? I need a drink, I'm in seventh grade. I'm the youngest alcoholic in my school. Be proud of that.

So Ronnie had this, still had a relationship with his father, but it was a really shitty relationship because his dad didn't think that Ronnie was his biological kid. So he, and he told his son and all his siblings that all the time, which is a great way to raise your kid.

Or not your kid. He was, he, so Ronnie and his brother were arrested for stealing cowboy boots and taken to juvenile detention, which I think is something you probably would have done. Absolutely. Because cowboy boots. Technically, I did steal them off of my sister.

Right. I've told this story, but my sister on her fifth, her sixth birthday, my aunt Jean gave her a pair of red cowboy boots and when she opened the box, I screamed at the top of my lungs, put them on and would not take them off. And then I wore red cowboy boots

and went straight. Finders keepers. That's right. Screamers keepers. So they go to juvenile detention and his father, his stupid father comes and takes his brother home, but won't take him home because he's like,

he's not my son. I'm not bailing him out. So like, all right, yeah. So Ronnie's mom eventually marries another man and they have nine children. What in the... Catholics? In Utah?

Does that even happen? Okay. But Ronnie actually admired his stepfather because he had been in prison in the past and he used his step-sons as lookout while burglarizing homes. Good. Yes.

You've got to get a whole family, like a thing going. What is everybody like? Do you like to play UNO? Do you like to burglarize your neighbors? As a family. Yes. And then... detention, institutions.

All right. So by his teens, early teens, he had been in all these places locked up. While he's in the Utah State Industrial School in Ogden, Ronnie has visited... Pretty good school. I think it's like a lock-up. It's like a juvenile detention school.

It's juvie. Okay. Ronnie's visited by a man that his brother is... Randy's living with and he's like, hey, this guy, this older dude is great. His name's Jack Statt. I'm living with him. You should live with him, too.

Jack Statt? Eat. Statt. Like immediately? Immediately. I just say the word... You know, like the same word I just said. Yeah. Statt. Like quickly. Like with Statt and Randy.

Fantastic. And this guy becomes an official foster parent to the boys. And so Ronnie at the time is saying that of his foster care, it's the most stable period of his life saying Jack was a good man and he tried to help us out. Now, again, going the same way with the hobo camp,

Jack was also molesting them and that was still the best home life he's experienced. So it's just fucking sad. It's terrible. But I thought life was normal. I thought that was normal. And he said he also worked as a sex worker

while living with Statt as well. And he's in his teens? Yeah. So then he meets, I don't know what year exactly, but he meets a woman named Debra Bischoff, or a teen. I don't know how old she was either. I did my homework. They meet in an Salt Lake City apartment complex

where his mom lives and they fall in love. Debra describes Ronnie as very caring. He never put me through he never put me in the rough situations he was in throughout his life. He sheltered me from that stuff. I feel like we got to get our standards a little higher.

He doesn't punch me in the face. He doesn't take me along with burglarizing. He keeps me out of that. He's never made me sleep in a hobo camp. Right. And because of that, I love him so. Yeah.

In 1977, they have a daughter together and in 1980, they have a son. But a month after his son is born, Ronnie is convicted of robbery and sent to the Utah State prison. Want to see a picture of him? Yes. Good. Oh. I mean,

I just couldn't not put this photo up. He looks like Steven there. Oh. Yes. Not what you expected, right? Neck tats and shit. He's in court, so he's like dressed up nice. But also leaning on your hand,

leaning on your fist with your chin like that is Steven Ray Morris to a T. Oh my God, it is. That's like how he podcast records. And then he, and then he he reaches his fingers out and then strokes his mustache like, I'm not fucking even making this up. I'm not even making fun of it.

I mean, I am, but I'm, but he really does it. And then we look over at him and we go to say one thing to him and he goes, Steven. Steven, we really like you. We do. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day. Editing our terrible voices

that you're so sick of. I was so sick of. He missed some pizza and these cheese mozzarella sticks. Yeah. They're so bad. They came with ketchup. But the sticks themselves

were perfect cylinders of mozzarella cheese that was fried. Frozen, like they came out of a box. Look, I mean, I'm not judging. What do you want? Fucking fresh mozzarella sticks? No fucking way. Frozen, old from somewhere else.

Ketchup. Hard to eat. That's what I'm looking for. I ate all of them. Ketchup. Ketchup. You're like, do you remember me? I was eating them alongside you. I'm not judging these things. We got a salad and then I ate it with my hands. That's right. Why did I do that?

It's kind of how you wrapped up the meal. I know we're done doing this. It's like I have to eat my quota of lettuce. Seven handfuls of lettuce and we're done with dinner. Okay. So that's Ronnie. In August of 1984,

while in prison, Ronnie fakes an illness by vomiting. He didn't have a fake seizure. There's so many ways. He fakes an illness and he's transported the University of Utah Hospital. Is that next door? It's in the basement.

He attacks the transportation officer at that moment and is like, fuck this, I'm out of here. He forces the officer to unlock his shackles by telling him, I guess you know that, I guess you know if that doctor comes back,

I'll have to kill you both. So he makes him take off his shackles at gunpoint and then in the course of his escape, he hits the officer so hard that he needed wires to reconstruct his face. So like, we're not on his side anymore.

Okay. All empathy has died. Yeah, we had him. Cowboy boots is a forgivable thing, man. I was relating to him in a very serious way right up until you said the word wire. I know. Reconstruct, that's not...

That never goes well. Just escape. Just fucking escape and let people have their face. Then so he's like, okay, he got out of the hospital, but he's like, how do I get the fuck out of here? He finds a dude,

a medical student, who's like, hey, I'm a medical student and I ride a motorcycle. And he gets on the back of the motorcycle with the guy, holds the gun to his back and is like, get me the fuck out of here as if it's like fucking James Bond or some shit. Yes.

I have to say, I kind of like that dude was a cocky motherfucker. So it's just like, yeah, how about if we hold the gun to you every once in a while, you son of a bitch. And if nothing else, he had the coolest story to tell on Monday. Exactly. You know what I mean? Totally.

A, he's the cool doctor who fucking rides a motorcycle. Which is like, if you're a doctor and you're doing that, you don't care about yourself. That's right. You're taking your own pills for sure. Because you see what happens to people who ride motorcycles and fix them.

Their faces need reconstruction. It's a serious wire situation. And you're like, I'm going to get one too, though. That's right. It's exactly right. Well, we've ripped doctors a new one. And everyone who came here on a motorcycle.

Hi. It's half the crowd as doctors, the other half is from a motorcycle club. They're like, oh, you didn't know this university is a teaching hospital. Almost everyone here is in medicine in some way. Well, when I faint, nobody comes

say of me, I'm faking it. Pop a wheelie, just like blaze on out of the parking lot. Later days. Okay, boop, boop, letter. Okay. Okay. On August 11th, so he gets out of

there and then after he escapes, he puts the firearm gun. That was copied and pasted. The gun and a note into a mailbox. And in it, he writes, here's the gun

and the wallet taken from the guard. So he gives the wallet back. He's like, sorry about the face. He didn't apologize for that. Oh. Taken from the guard. I don't want to hurt no one else. I just want to be free. So he returns and he's like, just not coming back. Right. But then please, please hold.

Yes. Okay. All right. So he gets, he's on October 9th, 1984. He's fucked up on cocaine and he goes to a place called Cheers Tavern. Totally forgot to see if it was still there. Oh, like the TV show?

Do you have a Cheers remake here? I don't know. Our Norman Cliff like sitting at the end of the bar. Animatronic Norman Cliff. Oh, why isn't that happening yet? After party at Cheers.

Cheers Tavern. Oh my God. Okay. Sam Malone's in the balcony. I'm so excited. And that, his mustache. So he, he goes there to rob the place, right? What? Sam Malone?

He had a mustache. Are you thinking of the, you're thinking of Cliff Clave and the mailman? He had one too. Girl, don't do this. Okay. Where were we? All right. Well here, let's stop laughing because okay, he's fucked up on Coke. He goes to rob Cheers Tavern

and he ends up shooting the bartender at Melvin John Otterstrom in the face. Killing him. And Ronnie makes off with less than a hundred fucking dollars too. Then Ronnie goes to fucking Melvin John Otterstrom's

childhood friend. What? What a dick. Like that to me is, is like, crosses the line between like, you were fucked up and shot someone and you suck, but like, it's just so creepy. It's, no, that's super creepy. Yeah.

Also, how is that the same guy that puts the wallet back in the fucking mailbox and is like, sorry for your troubles? No, it's, I don't know. That's, wow. Here's a photo of, of oh, that's not the right page. So like, basically, he went to this guy's

funeral and like, mingled enough so that he was telling people who he was. I guess. Fuck, yeah. This is Melvin John Otterstrom. Uh, boop. Aww. Look how cute he is.

And then, okay, so, uh, okay, three weeks later, Ronnie gets captured at the home of his cousin and once he's captured, Ronnie says that the shooting occurred because Otterstrom put up a fight, but investigators didn't find any evidence

to support that, which I'm like, it's still your fucking fault, dude. Like, even if you put up a fight for his fucking life, it's still your fault. Also, you're on Coke. You don't know what's fucking going on. That's true. Like, every, you, you're, no. Um, Ronnie's held

in custody. His getaway driver testifies against him. In 1985 at the Metropolis Metropolitan. That's right. Fuck. You got it though. Third charm. Third size of charm.

Wow. Because it looks like Metropolis and then it changed. You know what I mean? Like, it could go either way in the beginning. But it's not. It's Metropolitan. You know the Metropolis. You know that word I've known for fucking the

37 years I've been on this planet that I just didn't see. Metropolitan. All of justice in Salt Lake City. So Ronnie gets a smug, someone smuggles him a fucking revolver. Revolver? Yes. Revolver

at his trial and Ronnie attempts to escape. He fucking has his gun. Who did it? Well, we'll get there. Okay, okay. Um, he he has his gun. He's immediately shot in the chest by

guard, the guard Luther Hensley. But he continues on his fucking escape with a fucking gunshot wound to the chest. Was he still on coke? Probably. Okay. Um, he wounds an unarmed bailiff named George Nick Kirk by shooting him in the abdomen and then ran

into the courtroom archives where attorneys Rob McRee and Michael Burdell are. So they're just like in the fucking archives being like boop boop boop going like we love law. Let's look at some old ones. Let's see what we can find about this. These stories

are incredible. Yeah. Let's memorize every fucking word. Yeah, like we don't even we're not even on trial today. Yeah, we're just loving law. Yeah. So Ronnie comes in, points the gun at them and then he aims at

Burdell who'd been he was there looking up shit for his pro bono work for his church. So like you couldn't be there for like a more honest reason. And Ronnie shoots him in the eye and then runs outside of the building where he's surrounded by dozens of police

softeners, officers. Police softeners. Fuck. Sorry. That's a good one. Police softeners. It's like it's like we'll lie it, but for cops. He

drops the gun and yells don't shoot. I don't have a gun, but I'm like, the fucking people you just shot. Yeah, that's right. You know what I mean? Sorry. This might be a dumb question. The guy that he shot in the eye. You just keep jumping ahead. Okay. No, no more.

No more from me. He dies. Oh, I know. Sorry. But the bailiffs. Nick Kirk survives. Okay. So, um, however, he dies 11 years later and his family says it's from complications

from the shot, the gunshot wound, which I'm like, yeah, you get shot in the gut. You're the rest of your fucking life. So I think fuck him. Fuck. Ronnie. Yes, for sure. During a search of the courthouse then they find a bag of men's clothing in the basement under

a woman's restroom sink. So someone had come in, stashed some clothing for his getaway. A woman. And then it's believed that the gun had been taped to a water fountain on the first floor and then passed to Ronnie as he was escorted into the courthouse in the underground

parking garage. So they find, um, they find, they find his girlfriend Darcy, um, unarmed and arrested about a mile away and her sister, Karma. Karma?

That's what it says. She, she's sentenced to eight years in prison for delivering the clothes and message in preparation for the escape attempt, but they don't know who actually gave him the gun. So she's like gets prison. Okay. Karma.

She gets this, the, this girlfriend's sister goes to prison. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's bullshit. Right. So, uh, let's see here. I think I have a photo of this. It's him with the beard on.

It's like my dad, Marty. Kind of looks like our therapist a little bit. He does. Didn't it? Oh my God. Oh my God. He totally looks like our therapist. It's intention versus impact. I hear him say, what I'm hearing your experiences. Can you turn to Karen and say that?

No, I hate it. It's awkward. There, that's the best, worst part of our therapy sessions. If we're like saying something meaningful and then he'll be like, will you turn to George and say that? Looking at her is the most repulsive thing in that love. I'm just like, no, I mean, like,

well, for myself. We have something to talk about next week, for sure. I should have said vulnerable. Upsetting to me. You did it, but you didn't. Oh no. Strike 19. Well, let's write that down.

Steven. Steven, mark that moment. Mark that moment. That's going to be a mini-sode of just you saying that. God, that was the worst word I could have used. I'm so sorry. I mean, I look pretty

fucking ugly when I cry. No. Internal feelings. Impact. Got it. Intent. Let's take one more look at him. Oh yeah. Here we go. Calm down a little. Run. Help us.

The grain of the temples. Well, the thing is I said this thing. What did you hear of Georgia when you heard that? And then I'm like, well, I felt like I was about to faint because it's, I have no air. Feel how warm I am right now. Oh, are you about to?

Who about to fucking faint? Let's do this thing. This is a viral moment waiting to happen. Maybe I'm just embarrassed because of the word Metro. What did I call it? Metropolitan. I don't remember. I don't either.

No one else does either. Nope. Thanks. I'm glad they didn't happen. Okay. And then, okay, so when that, okay, so it was the guy in the bar was a mountain climber and a veteran of this

19 special forces group of the Utah National Guard and and so is she. Thank you for your service. And the other guy therapist, Burdell was a Vietnam veteran, a former engineer and a member

of the Summum Church. Don't know what that is. And so then, okay, so they catch him back to, even though he had a fucking shot in his chest, right? June 1985, he pleads guilty to the murder of

Kostrom. The jurors celebrate less than three hours and find him guilty of capital murder and life without parole isn't possible back then. They didn't come around until 1992 in Utah. So they, he's sentenced

to death. Making him then Utah's youngest inmate on death row. And later, the jurors say that if they had known about his troubled past and his childhood, you know, they couldn't, as I just said. Okay.

Stop making me repeat myself. Article. Okay, here's an insane thing and this is fucked up. He's given the choice how he wants to be executed. Oh. Why do we get that choice? Just pick your dinner and be quiet.

Yeah, you got to choose your dinner. But nope, he picks his, so he says, quote, I'd prefer to die of old age or honor, but if that ain't possible, I'll take the firing squad. Holy fuck. He is not fucking around.

Fuck. Yeah. And he's been shot once already, so he fucking knows what it feels like. Right? Like that's the craziest part. That doesn't feel good probably. No. I've never, he wouldn't want to go back to that and yet, and yet he was just like, wow, that's nuts.

So since 1976, only two other people have been executed by firing squad in the United States, both in Utah. What? I wouldn't share for that. I'm kidding, I would. Gary Gilmore and John Albert Taylor. So, but this guy,

Taylor chose the firing squad to embarrass the state, but Ronnie said that he just didn't want to attract attention. He just won, he just preferred that way to die. Wow. So he got in a lot of trouble in prison on October. What? On October 20th, 1987,

okay, he's in the prison, the visiting area. There's a glass partition between him and the woman he's talking to. He fucking breaks the glass partition. What? Then they somehow gets over the partition, I hope, and he and the woman have sex

like through the broken partition while the fucking other inmates cheered and barricaded the doors. And, hold on, the fucking woman is his half brother's wife. What? What the fuck?

Shit, Utah. What is Christmas like? What is the Thanksgiving conversation that year? My first question is, let's talk about that glass. Yes. I hope, that's what I'm saying, I hope they jumped over it somehow and didn't have sex on it.

That's at least the worries. There used to be just a very thin pane of Tiffany stained glass between the prisoners and their guests. That's insanity. How come the glass starts? Bonin is fucking sister-in-law and the rest of the prisoners are like,

hell yeah, and fucking crazy, right? That must have been the hottest prisoner phone call through that glass when they were like, how was Thanksgiving? How was your fucking Thanksgiving? It's the question I want to ask you. Yams? Were there yams?

Oh, yams! I mean, fuck, right? Literally. Then on September oh yeah, then on September 25th, 1994, so he's still alive, he gets drunk

from alcohol that he had made in his prison toilet. No, thank god. Dammit. Sink. Yeah, right, that's what you told people. And he stabs another inmate, Richard Fats-Thomas with a shiv that he had made from a pair of sunglasses. Also, prisoners have sunglasses?

You still got to be cool. I guess. You got to protect those peepers. That's right. The UV rays up here are insane. Look at you. The air is thin. This dude suffers nine puncture wounds to the face, mouth, arm,

and chest that are life-threatening, but he makes a full recovery. So he's having a good time in prison, it seems like. He's really criminalling it up. Okay, cut to June 18th, 2010. 2010, the year that

that murder happened. That fucking year. That's your favorite year for murder. So sneaky. Oh, here's him, like, oh, that's the, okay, well Stephen put these in the wrong fucking order. Stephen? I'm scared that. It's Stephen's fault you were pronounced metropolitan

that way. Metropolitan? What did I say? I don't remember. Well, metropolitan. It's so good. I don't want to, I have a picture of him like back in 2010, but I'm scared that Stephen left one of those

photos out and I don't want to go to your picture. Everyone close your eyes real quick. I think you just put it in the wrong order. Should I do it? Who cares? I don't want to out here. Which part? I don't even know what mine are. Just go ahead.

Okay, there he is. Oh no, you've ruined my thing. No, no, that's, that's Ronnie. Bring Ren back up. I have some complaints. That's Ronnie. Our therapist is named Ren, you guys. Um, okay. So, Boop.

Yeah, I'm sorry. Can you go back really quick? He looks like, he looks like Matt Walsh, the guy on Veep. Oh, he does look like Matt Walsh. Look at him. Think about it. HBO if you have to. Oh God, yeah. It's Matt Walsh. Veep. All right.

So, finally, in 2010, Ronnie is now 49 years old. It's been a quarter of a century that he's been on Death Row. Which is a long fucking time. Well, it's 25 years. Um, finally, but he,

I'm going to ignore that. Ren! I'm going to ignore you. Finally, he's fucking, on June 18, 2010, he's eliminated. Okay, wait. Let me tell you something.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I read that wrong. By 2004, Utah had eliminated the firing squad. There it is. There is someone in this audience who is not a fan of the show, doesn't know what's happening,

and is like, this is fucking wrong. What's happening is wrong. I'm dizzy right now, so I'm going to blame everything on that. This podcast. Great. So Utah was like, maybe we shouldn't, let's eliminate the firing squad by 2004 as a method of execution,

but convicts who were sentenced before that date are still allowed to have that option. If they want to pick it. Yeah. It doesn't retroactively, they're not like... They're grandfathered into being shot. Yes. I get it. Exactly.

What? You know you're in charge, and you can change that, right? No. This isn't some weird movie where you have to get shot this way. So just after midnight, five anonymous executioners, they're behind a curtain and a ported brick wall.

Don't know what that is. Ported? Ported. One rifle had a blank ground, so no one would be like, it was me. You know what I mean? They didn't know. He is pronounced dead at 12, 17 a.m., and after he was executed,

the daughter of one of the victims said, I hope my sister, who just passed away, and my father, and all of the other victims are waiting for his sorry ass. They're going to go down after him. Whoa. Are you allowed to do that?

Can you go back and forth? I feel like we're about to write the new Marvel movie. Yeah. I'll pull you out of hell? Something like that? No. We're going to go down after him. They're going to beat him up in hell.

They're like, we're hanging out and having its great up here. Let's do a fucking quick tourist. Fucking ass. We're just going to kick some assholes ass really quick. And then we're going to go back. No, I'm not staying here. I was good.

I hope they get a go down after him. Fuck. That's the story of Ronnie Lee Gardner. Wow. Thanks. I told you he was a dick. It was a real roller coaster, though, with that guy.

I mean, I don't know. You were here, you were there, you were here, then you were back there. It's always very complex with these stories. It's an emotional roller coaster. It really is. A metropolitan size. It's almost the size of a metropolitan.

I just start using that word incorrectly because I just want to prove that I know how to say it. You're looking at a charcuterie board and you're like, is this metropolitan? Cheese? Pull it out anywhere. My

story tonight is one of my classic. It was an episode of I Survived. Uh-huh. As most of us do, I have all of mine on my DVR and I was laying on my couch for 19 hours the other day

and not taking care of things and this episode rolled up and there were like Salt Lake City, Utah. And then I was just like, my homework. I have to sit here. That's the best.

This is working. This just turned into borderline clinical depression. Now I'm at work. That's how easy it is. In the podcast world. When there's a podcast about the murder you're going to do that week and you're like, I got to clean my bathroom. I'm just sitting in front of my computer.

I have a weird way of enjoying myself. I mean, cleaning my toilet. It is satisfying though. Do you ever use one of those bleach things you stick in the back of the toilet and then the water is just bleachy all the time? No.

Get into it. They're the best. You know every once in a while you just have a ring of mold. We were like, what's coming out of me? I'm disgusting. No. Not crazy. It's just you see it forming where you're like, something's off.

Something's happening. Just get one of those fucking Clorox bleach pills or whatever they're called. You swallow it and then you're like, got it. I'll do it. Karen told me to take a bleach pill and then I wouldn't have mold coming out of me anymore.

It looks kind of like a big sweet tart. You put it on a really tart. An avocado toast. And then you put a bag on top. Maybe a coconut oil on top so it just absorbs the intense chemicals. Where were we?

Tell us. No idea. We are in the metropolis. Definitely hallucinating at this point. Okay. But then, so I watch it. It's great. Then good old Steve Ray Morris

sends me a 2020 episode more in depth and actually has reenactors, which is the greatest. And so now I'm going to retell you a 2020 episode like I used to retell you I survived episodes.

This is plagiarism. It's like a mashup. That's right. It's like a layer cake where my knowledge began on an episode of I Survived folded in the 2020. It's just like we're all at the campfire together

and I'm like, remember TV? Listen to this. Is the cake at the campfire? We get to have cake and bleach pills. It's going to be the best camp out ever. It is the Salt Lake City Library hostage crisis.

Do you remember? You guys had a library hostage crisis? Dude, did they fucking ever? First of all, let's just take a look at the Salt Lake City public library circa whenever Stephen found this picture. Let's see.

This is the old branch, I believe. Is that correct? It's the old branch. It looks old. That's just the colors. That's so 70s. Look at that poor building on stilts. The building's like, what do you

expect from me? You couldn't just put me on the ground? It's like, we're pinning all of our hopes on you. Oh man. This says future learning. The Salt Lake City Public Library is a five-story building.

So on Saturday, March 5th, 1994, it wasn't black and white. It was the early 90s. It was like a sepia tone. Yeah. With neon spray paint, fake graffiti on the bottom and tilted to the side.

Yep. Very beach house. So there's hundreds of people at the library on Saturday and people there for obviously all different kind of reasons. Like what? Well, you know, reading, being quiet, sleeping.

Free coffee, maybe? Do they serve coffee? Some of them do. No, I thought they don't do that, right? Probably not here. Oh, sure. Free water? I don't know. Oh, and they're not allowed to have water.

No. We're teasing you. Salt Lake City's like, that's not us, man. That's not us. So, there's a couple there, Michael and Judith Greer, and they came down to the library because there was a Tibetan

Mandala ceremony being done that day. And that's, you know, that's your favorite. It's my favorite kind of ceremony. Right? Of all library ceremonies. Oh. You guys need to try one one day. Top three.

So it's the Tibetan monks who are putting colored sand, they're like scraping and blowing colored sand into this almost as beautiful as this rug design at the library. Well, how fucking badass is that?

I love it. Those are the kind of events that they have. Because it's culturally open to everyone. They're like, check out what happens. Check, is that the top? Check out what happened? Oh my God. Who's a librarian here? Use that tagline.

Take this, take it to your meeting on Monday. You have a meeting on Monday? Take it. It's yours. To the librarians union meeting? Take that down there. You're going to get a raise. I bet they've never used the pun, check it out at the library before. I bet it's never happened

with a big check mark. So the Greers are there watching this beautiful sand ceremony and also there's of course Gwen Page, who's been a librarian. Gwen, Gwen, are you here? Gwen, Gwen was in the I survived and in the

2020. So you know she is a key fucking player in this story. She is just bouncing around. She is a lifelong dedicated librarian in the most hushed toned way you can be. You can fucking see her

readers on a chain. She's like I'll tell you where the book is this time, but you have to find it for yourself the next time. You know Gwen? Yeah. Okay. So she's you know, reforming

the Dewey Decimals. Librarians like to get up too. Uh-huh. And one of her co-workers says you gotta go see the fucking Mendel ceremony before it ends. It's amazing. She's like you're so right. So she hauls

ass on up. I don't know what we're doing. Are you is this word for word, the 2020 episode? This is how they say it on the 2020. Um, oh shit look at this. There she is. Gwen!

Gwen! Gwen! That's Gwen. And nice mobs. She's doing jewel tones because she knows that that can act like makeup sometimes for you. That does, a maroon jacket does the work

for you. But you gotta have a pop of color. But you've got to get a good, some nice hot blue, electric blue in there. Love her. You still love to live. Librarian to the Hilt. Librarian. You can, Steven

paused it right when she was going shh shh She does that throughout the interview. Just shushing cameraman, shushing interviewers. I'd fucking love that so much. The sound guys like I can't, I can't with this librarian.

I'm getting a lot of shushing. Okay, so as Gwen heads up to watch this amazing cool thing that I would love to see in real life and made me cry when I saw it in the thing. She notices, of course

because Observe and Report librarian style. She notices there's this scraggly guy standing by the reference desk. He's wearing a backpack. He looks real edgy and she clocks it but then she's like, I gotta go see him in Dallas for her money.

So she just shushed him really hard and kept on moving. Okay. She put her shush scent on him to like mark him for later. Yes. It was just a little yellow chalk on his pant leg. Come back and shush him later. About a half an hour.

We're going to reveal all the library secrets. Now there's so mad right now. There's so many. Shhh. So she passes this way. This is the way they set it up on 2020. I bet you they didn't all pass

like it was a very well choreographed play but she passes him and then this scraggly guy turns to the man standing next to him and pushes a manila envelope like onto his chest and goes I need you to mail this

for me. Give this to the papers, have a nice life mine's going to be short and then he turns around and pulls out a gun and then he pulls out a curling iron. What?

And then he jumps on a table and he yells everybody listen up this is a bomb he holds the curling iron up this is a bomb nobody move if I let go of this switch this whole place blows up. So it was what they call a dead man switch

he's literally holding open a curling iron so if he lets it go that's when the bomb goes off so if anything happens to him everybody dies. That's like his insurance. Do you think everyone laughed at first

because you're like look he's joking I can see the cord of that curling iron sir curling irons aren't bombs I would don't Fuck yeah okay so and then he's kind of like

obviously people you know the guns like this the curling irons up like this everybody probably 10 feet and back are just like goodbye and they piece out of there as quickly and as organized fashion as possible

I'm sure. Down four escalators oh man five story library that's the worst escape route as an escalator yeah because it's just so slow you have to stand there escaping escaping almost there

we have almost escaped music really nice music playing behind you watch your shoelaces and then someone's like my shoelaces are done that's the only way anybody gets caught is if their shoelace gets stuck in it oh I just do want to say that

so the bad guy this is the reenactor from 2020 Steven could find no pictures of the actual bomber Clifford Draper but this guy this reenactor actually does a very

good job he has very large eyes so he's scary they have a lot of like brown eyeliner around his eyes and he's doing a very realistic crazy person who's you know somebody that's like on the edge that's in public

people aren't noticing him but you're like but there is something up with that guy and then boom he's up on the table and you know then there has to be like whispering to yourself and all this kind of stuff and I was like oh this is going to be cheesy as fuck well it wasn't this guy did a fucking great job his name

yes I did his name is uh Michael B Woods and um you've seen him yes ow my teeth uh he's cute you've seen him on uh Empire you've seen he's had two episode character arc

on Chicago PD he's one of your favorite actors he's not he's not just a crazy guy in the library reference desk with a curling iron and he really fucking held this 2020 together it was all of him

so much pressure can they do an Emmy from before what do they call it when they're like a retroactive Emmy yes metropoctin yeah they do those cool especially for reenactors okay so anyway

keep your eye peeled from Michael B Woods in the future I'm just saying I'm calling it now he's just got range people range an eyeliner looks great on him I like when you can do the whole eye you can surround the whole eye and it still doesn't look small

oh I mean that means you have great big eyes I keep hitting my face with the microphone yeah drunk okay so uh I told you about the dead man

switch and I'm not going to say it again meanwhile over in the sheriff's administration building a sheriff's office administration building which was nearby there is an

um a man named Lieutenant Lloyd Prescott who's gone in in the 2020 he goes I went in to use the computer on the weekend awww to use the computer

when did he look up it was just like a ton of solitaire um so he's in using the computer in basically kind of an empty building and this guy runs in from the library and he's just like

can somebody help me and um so Lloyd Prescott gets out and he's like did you guys call the cops and they're like yes but there's a guy with a live bomb in the library and he's taking hostages and so uh Lloyd Prescott grabs his gun he's wearing

you put it on the seat next to him well he's in a car inside the office let me just grab this computer next to him he just had it right against the mouse um

he grabs his gun in the 2020 he knocks his coffee cup over onto his badge that didn't fucking happen they're just trying to show you he's a sheriff and he runs into the library where hundreds of people

are running out Lloyd Prescott runs in that's uh yeah he's a cop that's right that's how you know he's a cop they run at the danger and they have guns um so as he's running in

and I also this seems a bit fateful but and so it could have been for the show but basically there he runs into the guy that Clifford Draper had given that Manila envelope to to say go mail this for me and the guy stops him and says don't go in there there's a guy

with a bomb and a gun and he says um I know I'm a police officer is anybody hurt and the guy says I don't know but he did give me this envelope to mail and so Lloyd goes I will take this from you thank you you might want to go ahead and use the elevator real

I mean escalator real quick and get out of here damn that could have been so funny um and he so um meanwhile back upstairs they have they're having this conversation and

the bomber is telling people um that he wants all the people who have basically been frozen in this area in front of him he starts looking at people and going go into that conference room and picking people out specifically so Michael Greer the guy that it's from the very beginning

who's it was his idea first to go watch the Mandela ceremony with his wife Judith he looks at Michael Greer and says you go in but not Judith so he has to go into this conference room and leave his wife behind yes and uh so

he goes in and uh several other people obviously and then he tells Gwen um go get me 16 people I want 16 people in that conference room yes and Gwen's like sounds great um but in her mind

you know the wheels are turning so she goes into this conference room and she's like and it's the there's a meeting of the toast masters in the conference room the people who they do speeches and they practice speeches no I don't what yeah it's a real thing oh it's like a club you can

join like a toast yeah a toast master did you think bread toast we've been talking about avocado toast 10 minutes ago I thought you were going I thought that that's what you meant toast masters we're so fucking good at making toast that's our

new food network show yes just tons of toast toast evenly colored perfectly buttered crust to crust jam or fucking almond butter you don't know and it's not up to you

it's none of your business we're the toast masters motherfuckers so there's a room filled with toast and Gwen goes in bold as brass and Gwen's like you guys let me quickly interrupt

your dumb fucking meeting there's a guy with a bomb out there and that's not a word for word and in this room luckily there was a there was a different door than the entrance door there was like a weird back door so of course they're like let's toast

master the fuck out of here and they open that door people start going out out so all these people are escaping and then Clifford Draper the bomber runs in he's like stop shut that door so

he shuts the door they end up a total of I believe nine ten people all together so end up in the room he doesn't get his 16 which I do agree is a better number but it's just how it worked out

so one two page eleven okay so he makes them all sit at the conference room

table but he makes them turn their chairs out so that they can't look at each other and he keeps screaming don't look at me over and over so everyone you know and he and he's just doing this with a gun the entire just constantly bomb gun so everyone is just

obviously insanely freaked out so our guy Lloyd Prescott walks into the conference room so there he had called I think he had called like two other women in like get in here you have to get in here right now and Lloyd Prescott cuts them

off walks into the room and holding up the vanilla envelope and goes what am I supposed to do with this and then he turns and then he shuts the door behind him so that the people who are supposed to go into the room don't go and he cuts them off

and then of course the bombers just like what who are you and then freaking out or whatever I said I was that was supposed to be mailed and he was like could you stop pointing that gun at me I just I don't even know and he's just playing it real low key so he's not coming in in any way cop style

he's like someone just handed me this envelope what am I supposed to do he pretended like he didn't know why he was in there yes insane so so then the bomber tells Gwen the librarian to go get him a phone and if she's not back in 15 seconds he'll kill somebody

15 seconds for a phone in 1994 yes yes not enough time that's very high stress yeah because there's no cell phones kids no you're going to need a phone she's Gwen immediately had to think of where's the one phone that has the longest silver

course yeah that I can just run across this fucking library with exactly she does it of course it's when it's Gwen she nails it you're right I don't know why I doubted her yeah you can't shit so we need to look at her again no no I why would you oh you want to

so relaxing okay goodbye oh it's there forever now okay this is how stressful it is okay alright

okay end of that page the pacing of this is amazing so oh he he tells Lloyd tells the bomber he's an accountant and he's just kind of like playing it small like I spilled coffee yeah I'm just

I'm a numbers guy anyway I don't know how to mail things meanwhile of course he's wearing it like a jacket like a windbreaker and he's got his gun hidden underneath it so then Draper tells everybody that he's going to barricade the room

he has a lady shut the curtains he does this weird thing we keeps having people do things for him he's not doing it probably because he's holding a fucking curling iron but so he he asks one what time they entered the room immediately one's like 10 to 10

and then he sets a timer for 72 hours so he has like this amount of time that he that they're going to do this which is a long fucking time yeah and in the reenactment that's when he says my name's Clifford Draper

let's get some attention I doubt that happened in reality Clifford Draper was a veteran and he was a paranoid schizophrenic who had gone off his meds long ago he was originally from Arkansas but now he lived in a boarding

house that was like down the street from this library so he gets Gwen to call the police and explain to the police what's going on so she says I'm being held hostage in the Salt Lake City Library with nine other people and

the police say we want to connect you we want him to talk to the hostage negotiator and Draper goes fucking batch it no no no hang up the phone screaming screaming then he makes Gwen give the phone to Michael Greer and he says now you're my phone man now

so he makes Michael Greer call the local classic rock radio station Z93 shut up yes for real because he's going to take it to the people the police anymore Z93

it's the station everyone at work can agree on right because everyone loves journey so Michael Greer has to call the radio station it's the weekend DJ so it's somebody who's a part timer she's just in the

reenactment she's got headphones on she's like kicking back it's the most relaxed DJ you've ever seen and she picks up the call and live on the air Michael Greer has to say I'm being held hostage at the Salt Lake

City Library and our hostage taker wants his demands read on the air and the weekend DJ goes I don't have time for this and hangs up the phone I mean who wouldn't you're like fuck you teenagers you goddamn teenagers making

my DJ life a living hell no um no we won't play divo this is Z93 classic rock Led Zeppelin and Led Zeppelin that's right it's classic rock block

meanwhile rock rock block it's a two for Tuesday that's right but it's a weekend this was Saturday it's the Saturday one several songs Saturday there you go there you go and if you're a DJ you can take that

you can have that yes for a nominal fee meanwhile across town Trisha Griffith who is the program director at Z93 Trisha a young lady in the 90s directing some radio programs

girl do it she's at breakfast with her friend we call it brunch was she having toast this was a toast situation she herself had already taken the toast master class so she was like whipping up four different kinds she was like I'm gonna have one slice

sourdough and one slice rye it's how we do it I am so high off this thin air I can't believe it it's fucked up it's the greatest I totally want to move here so anyhow

we'll talk about it after she gets a call the weekend DJ calls her boss after she hangs up and goes hey so this just happened and now I have a weird feeling about it I don't think I did the right thing I might have fucked up

I think I might be on probation I'm in serious DJ trouble right now Trisha drops her fork loudly runs out of the brunch spills her coffee but takes her toast boom

important things meanwhile we're cutting back to the conference room now this gets super dark the bomber passes around a legal pat and has everybody write their name down and the name of their next of kin so he's doing a lot of shit like that

it's basically like here's how I'm gonna kill you these are the different none of us are getting out of here a lot of shit like that also there's a woman in the conference room with everybody who's a diabetic and she's starting to feel the effects she has to take insulin

five times a day and she tells him look I'm a fucking diabetic she didn't say fucking and I have to take my medicine and he was like well if you didn't bring your medicine then that's on you and someone else in the room is like

she could die and he's like well then that's just how it is and then he goes or maybe I'll trade her out for a cop I've always wanted to kill a cop and Lloyd Prescott's like gull still an accountant

yep loving them numbers too bad I'm an accountant April 15th hate you so much tax day anyway what are you guys talking about the police uh okay

uh meanwhile over at the swat central the metropolitan swat office yes the swat sergeant Ken Hanson is prepping for the husky rusted so the

husky rusted can we get some oxygen please are you okay mommy mommy the husky rusted

oh no this is a little husky rusted man and there she goes there she goes down it's a secret it's a secret it's a delight to me holy

fuck now you know how I feel all the time isn't it the worst that's why I was so hot I kept saying stupid shit it really sounded so right I feel like it's always been husky rusted that was fun for me

because it wasn't me doesn't feel good when it's not you with a goddamn relief okay deep breaths please get serious deep breaths real fast shallow fast breaths

if you just stand up real quick and screaming okay meanwhile this made me laugh so loudly when I thought watched it today so at one point

draper looks at everybody and goes I want all of you to strip down strip down naked this one girl who has been super like in the reenactment the whole time she's been like she's always the girl they cut to when they want to show people being upset or worried

she's like long hair very like down the girl next to her face and when he says that she turns around and goes I am not doing that that's where she puts her foot down and then he didn't make them do it

what she should have been like and you're letting us out I cannot tell you how much I would have been that girl and I would have been like definitely shoot me I am not taking my pants off in any way at the library

with all these nice people around me yeah I am not doing that you with your guns and your bombs so awesome so then he just makes them take their jackets off because she is not doing that but he has a gun under his jacket

that's exactly right Georgia I've been listening so you like Gwen have been listening so he makes Gwen of course go around and take everyone's jacket from them and then put them in the corner

Gwen has to be the coat girl now Gwen is like his gopher a little bit and he keeps looking to her and I am sure she is sitting there because she is probably the whole time looking and I am like is this really what you are doing now so he is like fine you go get the coats so as she is walking

around the outside of the table when she gets to Lloyd Lloyd gives her the old mmm like just a real click click ding ding and she doesn't miss a beat I encourage everyone in your life please always look for small tiny clues

that people are trying to fucking give you because what is worse than being the person or experiencing the person where you are like don't take my coat and they are like why don't you want me to take your coat can't you just hand me your coat we have all been in those situations where it is don't ask me

why I don't want to take my shoes off in your house my feet smell I don't want to have to tell you that if I am telling you something but my eyes are wide catch on god damn it that was just a sidebar of advice screamed at you angrily

just how I do it I am not doing that so she passes Lloyd then Lloyd says to Draper can I leave my coat on I am cold and Draper of course is like if I take your coat off

he loses his shit he takes his coat off in this way where he is able to pull real quick pull his shirt bottom I was going to say shirt sleeves I barely caught myself untuck his shirt

untuck pull it out shirt tails pulls that out to cover the gun right in time and meanwhile no one in the room knows that he is a cop

everyone is like we are here with this crazy guy and super gwen the librarian and that is about it and that is all we have got and that really cold accountant why would he risk all of our lives because he is cold I hate his guts

ok so then he makes everybody, Draper makes everybody read his list of demands he hands him out and he goes like this is why I am doing this and if you read this

now you will understand and then everyone gets it and is like oh great great a little reason here because the letter says among other things that he will not negotiate he demands to be reinstated into the national guard

he wants a military doctor stripped down to his shorts to come and bring him sedatives and methamphetamine that is not a good mix it is a version of a speedball but at the library

he demands to be paid in gold and platinum bullion which is badass it is actually one of the accountants was like financially that is actually sad you can't go wrong with platinum bullion

you can take that anywhere and then he demands to be flown to New Zealand and he wants a full presidential pardon from Bill Clinton so it really bums everybody out as they read it meanwhile over at Z93

okay cutting back because Trisha Griffith has arrived and she is like I am going to be here now because the weekend DJ doesn't have to deal with the hard shit anymore cut the blues traveler where this is fucking happening it is like harmonica

hostage so she sits there and at the DJ deck she sits there and in just in case the hostage the bomber

calls back which he does he is screaming do not hang up on me put me on the air or everybody dies so she had the weekend DJ go call the cops and be like he called once before what do we do

whatever and the cops had told the weekend DJ do not put him on the air but of course Trisha is talking to him and she is like no he is going to kill these people there is no doubt in my mind so she was like I am going to put him on the air because I don't want these people to die

Trisha making decisions she was going full program director on his ass but before she did that which is great she thought I am going to try one thing so she says to draper on the phone the button

to put you on the air is broken and the engineer won't be back till Monday and he buys it what because we all know that there is a strip of buttons that light up and if that one is broken the air isn't there and the engineer is gone

the engineer is skiing again as he does so he buys it or they have less than 72 hours or everyone dies then he makes Michael Greer call back

and read the list of hostage names and next of kin so that when he kills everybody she can notify the families oh sorry you guys like him did you say you guys like him

I totally like him I don't know he's just nice and he listens he likes all the same bands as me like blues traveler he makes the best toast have you ever had Jesus' toast

it's very small and round it tastes like glue that's a reference I got it I'm making a Catholic reference no it has the face of Jesus burnt toasted

he has his own he burns his own face into his own toast God bless him literally so Clifford is telling Trisha this super fucked up very upsetting news and Trisha gets this idea

and she says Clifford can I ask you a question and he says yes but he's screaming it or something waving a gun at the phone and she says what can I play for you so smart it's so smart

because music heals the world pull out an acoustic guitar play seven Nirvana songs he fucking asks for more deep cuts for them to stop playing the same songs all the time and he asks for less commercials what

that's the most reasonable answer I've ever heard it's what we all want from C93 even off your meds you're like here's what's going wrong with your fucking radio station I can see this and I'm holding a curly iron in the library

ok meanwhile on the other side of the conference table Sue Ellison the diabetic is now going into severe she's entering into diabetic shock

everyone in the room is saying please let her go he says no way and oh so he's draper's getting more and more agitated this is over hours and hours and hours and at one point he keeps switching hands

because he's holding the curling iron open he's been gripping it for hours he's like so bummed that he made that yeah couldn't you just plug it in how about a straightener they just sit there um

so he asks Michael he's like can you get the duct tape out of my backpack I need to fix the bomb so everyone's just like ok um so they're putting pieces of duct tape over the bomb and uh

as um so then he the next plan is he goes somebody's gotta die the police aren't responding the way I want them to we have to figure out who has to die so he tells Gwen to go get this rope he says I'm gonna cut this rope into all these different lengths

whoever gets the shortest piece dies no so Gwen talks about it she's like she took forever to walk over and get the rope she was the slowest walker of all time and then as she

uh she oh she goes to Clifford and says um I need how am I gonna cut this I don't I can't cut this there's no scissors in here so he puts the gun down to get the knife out of his backpack

yeah and the second he does that that's when Lloyd knows this is his fucking time to shine he pulls that fucking gun and so sorry but really quick they talk about this which I love he had taken some kind of a bomb class so he knew

if the bomb did go off in the room if everybody was under the table they could probably because it's the size of the bomb and you know he's talking about the type that it probably was that bombs like that they go off up so if everyone was under the plane of the table there was a less chance that they would

all be injured okay so he fucking stands up when he sees that his hands are between weapons fucking stands up and screams sheriff's office everybody get down all the people in the chairs fucking hit the deck and he shoots

Clifford Draper five times oh god sorry I was so excited I was so excited you like going into your own mic no my table oh I thought it was your tube

oh god that was the best visual like clunk clunk but does that scare everyone I think it was really good sound effects oh my god right as

the SWAT team was right outside the conference room door they were like oh shit but they were just sitting there like you know they don't want that fucking dead man detonator thing to go off so when they hear the gunshots they shoot up at the top of these glass windows

that go into the conference room fucking windows shatter there's like 19 SWAT people in the room and when that dead man detonator hit it didn't fucking work because he had put too much duct tape on it while he was trying to fix it

so by some fucking miracle of real life god that bomb did not go off and everybody lived except for the terribly mentally ill

man who got shot five times died on the way to the hospital sorry I should have I'm sorry I said everybody can we take our chair back I mean listen all the hostages Gwen still

works at the Salt Lake City fucking library after party with Gwen and she says this amazing thing at the end of 2020 she's like when bad things happen you can either be a victim or you can be a survivor and I love the library

and of course I still work at the library it's just like fucking Gwen in your jewel tones kicking down that knowledge Lloyd Prescott at the end of that 2020 was asked why he went into that conference room at such grave danger to himself

and he said in the police force and in the military it's your job to risk your life that's why we have cops god bless his soul there he is more jewel tones Lloyd

Lloyd man what if he and what's-her-face had fallen in love Gwen and Lloyd across the table that moment where he was like don't take my jacket she's like fine but I'm coming back

for you boom that's my lifetime movie I'll write it when I get home shit that was amazing fucking I was

with you that entire time that was fucking insane I hit my microphone hard that's how good it was you know I'd like to thank I survived in 2020 the people who actually wrote that well now you're one of them

that's right do we have time? I think so sit down everyone sit down there's rules and you need to listen you were talking the whole time so don't put your hand up

I got eyes like you wouldn't believe if you would like to tell us your hometown this evening there's a couple things to keep in mind you can't be so drunk that you don't know your own story anymore it says Utah they're not they can't

I don't know I'd like to make assumptions make you feel alienated everybody in the room wants it to be local so don't come up here with your Mississippi bullshit it's what we want local to Utah would be great you know you can't read but we say that anyway

no don't be reading off of any kind of piece of paper we just want to talk to you and we want you to chat it up it's a great idea to keep it to in your mind maybe two paragraphs because you have to remember that if you get picked everyone else in the room hates your guts

alright do your thing can we get the lights up for a second this blonde person yeah yeah this lady girl she's the girl that's Vince hi

you can bring those lights down now thank you hi tolly everyone hi what's your name holly come over here you have to stand on the carpet or it's bad luck yeah we have isn't it gorgeous you're gonna take it home with you tonight hold the microphone

do your thing and there's your pretty necklace okay holly where are you from um Ogden Utah oh I talked about that place it's a real place oh my god and first I just have to tell you you got to go see the new library oh is it the best

can you just give us a quick rundown about the new library super modern glass wood elevators all the elements books escalators no escalators we're done with those better for escaping

absolutely uh is it nearby yeah it's on 400 south oh sure it's like two blocks five to twenty blocks that way okay we'll walk you know what let's go fucking see Gwen tomorrow oh two thousand people

she's on the list her last name is page books pages fuck you're killing it already holly thanks I'm gonna tell you you have nothing to worry about I took a xanax I took a xanax

she took a xanax no alcohol just a xanax prescribed by my doctor amazing I took a xanax a thousand all the time oh damn it you wanna be the third member of this plug

I've been dying I mean I'm like can we be best friends yeah sure we are it's already happening okay I'm there okay what's your hometown it's really sad so let's bring it down from where we are well why'd you say that xanax thing then sorry so

I live in Wyoming right now but I used to live um in San Pete County it's in the center of the state okay and I went back a year ago to visit my family my sisters in law and a friend of mine who had moved

across the street from my sisters so we had planned to have dinner um on Thursday night we got home her lights were all off so we're like we'll hit her up on Friday that night we were out chain smoking

chain smoking what brand it's kind of embarrassing but it's camel crush what's that mean you crush it and then it becomes fucking menthol it's amazing menthol cigarettes will kill you immediately

that's what I'm going for I'm ready to go no I'm just kidding they're delicious they're fresh they're not delicious I love them okay so um my friend

cammy um she was engaged um and that night we were outside and it's wildlife outside there's cows and chickens and cats and all sorts of animals and we heard a lot of noises and

we thought it was just the wildlife and it was and it was it was our friend cammy and she she got murdered by her fiance and it was about 100 feet from where we were and we were right there

and I had just started listening to her podcast and I was probably listening to it while it happened because I had gone to sleep at about midnight and she um the police think it was about um one o'clock and it was

one of the hardest things in my life but you know good things happen people survive and cammy was a wonderful person and you know um he he her has her fiance was arrested the next day he told them that she

had been with us and had been in a car accident and walked home and then got in the bath and he got up in the morning and she was dead he had done it with a hammer and a shovel just it was bad but they knew that right like

they knew he was lying yeah yeah yeah we had to answer some questions but yeah it was tough yeah but and I still feel really guilty about it but I feel guilty I mean I get it but yeah how sorry how long ago was this it'll be a year in March

oh wow yeah that's tough yeah but I love you guys and I love you guys you get to smoke as many menthols as you want to I'm shaking smoking back to Wyoming but everyone's gonna have a menthol cigarette tonight in memory

of cammy yeah yeah you have to cammy we smoked together we took a smoking cessation class together so we quit smoking together and then we started up again well you guys crushed it oh my god

we crushed it thank you so much for being brave and coming up thank you you're amazing Holly everybody Holly fuck shit um

solid city thank you for having us thank you thank you for what's that a picture of it's you is it a picture it's a painting I guess it's too late to ask that

question we'll ask tomorrow night I mean I'm high as a goddamn kite I don't know what's happening this was such an amazing show you guys thank you for being so smart thank you for being fucking so on it that you

sold out tomorrow night show and demanded this show what a fucking honor what an honor yeah we we appreciate your support so much we can't believe we get to do this with our lives it's insanity

and we're not just high and saying that we really mean it no that's sincere and we love the community that you guys have built and we're so stoked that we get to be part of it so thank you guys so much for supporting us being bad asses it's so fun to watch you guys come out here

it's so fun to watch you guys meet each other and become friends with each other and like build a community where we can talk about the hardest fucking things that happen to people in the world and still be okay i think that's kind of a big thing that happens with

this podcast that we didn't plan and it had no of course we were just like let's read true crime stories to each other and something really beautiful and magical is happening with you guys and you're making it happen so thank you it's an honor to us what you guys are doing

honestly so stay sexy and don't get in my way bye guys