My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 116 - Robot Grandma

Episode Date: April 12, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover killers Jesse Pomeroy and Issei Sagawa.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Are we doing it? Enough. Let's do it. Here we go. Ready? Okay. Were you a cheerleader? Do I fucking look like I was a cheerleader? Were you? Yes. Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense and looking back I shouldn't have been. But if you start anything, ready okay is a great way to start. Ready? Okay. This is my favorite murder, the podcast. Hey cheerleaders. Hey cheerleaders and cheer don'ts. And cheer, get your herkeys on. It's time for your favorite true crime cheerleading

podcast, My Favorite Murder. It's time for the first 45 minutes of your first true crime podcast. Where there's no true crime, a lot of personal issues. That's Georgia Hardstar. That's Karen Kilgaran. And there's Stephen Ray Morris. Hardstar Kilgaran. We're calling him now. Stephen Hardstar Kilgaran. Yeah, we've changed his name. Oh, Stephen, we legally changed your name. Stephen. Cool. Stephen, we also enrolled you in a monostory kindergarten just so we could get the experience of being hyphenate parents. That's right. Can I wash my feet? Yes. Did you see someone today on Twitter was like, Georgia, I found this at a library and you weren't wrong and it's called, it's like a children's book called, like, can I wash my feet a monostory? No, I'm fucking weird

like next level by Georgia Hardstar. I quickly put it out just to prove you wrong and it worked. You self published, which is awesome. That's right. You planted it in a library. I was like, this murder, someone's going to look in here. I'm random murdering now with a Twitter account. Love it. Hi, everybody. Hi. How are you? Should we? Oh yeah, we got, this is a big day. Yeah, before the skippers start their thing of pressing the 15 second forward button 15 times, which I fucking do all the time in podcasts. Yeah. How can you not? I mean, I feel like we're past the era of skippers though. I feel like skippers must be gone entirely. I can't imagine. I don't, I can't imagine they stick around for the shit we talk about when it actually comes down

to the cases. They're skipping. They're skipping. They're skipping. They're skipping. And now, and still skipping, continuing to skip. I mean, we just talked about that. I guess it's a lot of shit we talk about later in the episode. You wouldn't understand unless we talk about it, unless you don't skip. It's like a, it's like days of our lives. You will not know what's happening if you comment at the top of this, the show. It's like, choose your own adventure. But unless you don't want an adventure. Right. No. Cowards. Yours was better. No, no, no. But what I was going to link it up to is screw the skippers because this announcement is fire and lit. Skippers, you don't even skip ahead right now. You don't get this.

You get nothing because guess what? We have a big surprise announcement for y'all. We got our shit together after two fucking years of not knowing what we were doing. I mean, yeah. And we're not alone in that. That's for sure. Skippers know what we're talking about. We have a fan, not a fan club, because that's narcissistic. We have a fan cult where we control your every thought and movement. We started a fan cult and we want you to join it, please because if you want and if you have 40 bucks, it's 40 bucks a year, $39.99. Save that penny. That's true. Pick it up for shipping. All day long. You have good luck. But with that $40 off the top, you get a shirt and an enamel

pen. That's exclusive as fuck. Excuse me. It's exclusive as fuck. Right. And I can't get anywhere else. And then also like the big deal about it is that you get first access to buying live show tickets. That's right. A bunch of other stuff like we're going to make videos or is it like private chat rooms? It'll be like the Facebook group, but now they won't steal your information. Well, we don't know about that. We can't get no guarantees in this goddamn life. Okay. But we're going to post fan art so you guys can see all the stuff that you make that some people see on Instagram, some people see on Twitter. It's all very haphazard. And we'll be contests starting with we're going to give the gal who came up with

our final segment title, which is fucking hooray. We're going to give her a little something. You get a prize. We're going to give you something. We're just going to give shit away. It's just going to be a fun hangout. I think in business, they call it like it's a second tier rollout platform engagement listener engagement. Got it. Karen's corporate. Karen's become corporate. I'm wearing a blazer right now. It's so tight on my boobs. I was going to say something, but those things don't fit across an Irish back. I'm going to tell you. Is there an Irish back? Yeah. Oh, there's a back in Irish. Yeah. We're there. It's a real wide back because you have to carry bales of hay to thatch your roof. This is literally from my nineties act. Oh, nice to brag

about having an Irish back in my standup comedy routine. Why would I never see you on Comedy Central, Karen? Because I wasn't very good at it. That's why. Okay. But so, okay, as we just said about the fan cult thing, and listen, we're going to stop shilling to you in a fucking hot second. They're right. But so tomorrow, Friday, the 13th, yes, we fucking plan this. Yeah. For years. For years and years. That's why we started this podcast. We're announcing our fall tour. Yes. Yay. We're going to another one. We're just going to keep touring until you guys don't feel like doing it with us anymore. And then we will gracefully bow out. But until that time, we're going to try to come to all the cities people want us to come to. That's right. So,

find out if your town is a town we're going to come to on Friday. Yeah. Until you guys, until we're doing fucking cat cafes and no one's coming and the cats are leaving, then we're going to keep doing this. I feel like if we can get 20 people together, it'll still be worth it. Do you count cats as people? Four cats, one person? I'm not allowed to because I have dogs. But if you want to, you can submit the paperwork for me to change my mind. Okay. Okay. So, we're announcing the tour on myfavoritmurder.com, which is like redone in a beautiful brand new website that also has our brand new merch on it. Yep. There's a lot of new shit, guys. Okay. On Friday the 13th. And it's on that website. Yeah. So, check on Friday the 13th

and see if we're coming to our town. And then over the weekend, you can join the fan cult, which means you'll have first access. They'll give you a password and you'll have first access to the live show tickets. On Monday morning. Including VIP passes. So, those might, yeah, sell out that way. And then on Wednesday, if there's going to be a pre-sale with a password, which will give you. For anybody who's like, fuck you and your cult. Which is fine. You can't control my mind. Yeah. I don't have $40. Right. Why are you so elitist? Yeah. Yeah. I think, as the kids say, this podcast has blazered itself. I think this podcast has ripped the back out of its own blazer. Yes. They're cheap Mervins blazers and needs to calm down. I just had a flash. Yeah. Of

shopping Mervins. So, anybody that's not from, I think it's California only. Okay. I'm sure there's like equivalence at some place. We'll hear about it. If Mervins was in your town, we'd like to know. But we, Petaluma had a Mervins, which is one of the only like larger stores in my town. It's like a mini department store. Right. It's like a mini cheap department store. It was almost like the original Target, but it didn't have cool things to buy. It just had like. Just department store stuff though. Like a JC Penney. Exactly. But almost like lower rent than JC Penney. Like, JC Penney was for the rich kids. We were over at Mervins. And that's where you bought, that's where everybody in my school and town bought their first bra. I was going to say, I stole my first bra

from Mervins. We were just trying to pass the fucking time. Dude, the most boring thing in the world was going shopping with your mom. At Mervins. At Mervins. At Mervins today. I learned real quick that it, my mom would be like, come shopping with me. I'll buy you a lipstick or whatever. She'll buy me a little trinket, which is great. And I'd be like, okay, but then I didn't realize that meant four and a half hours of my mom in the fucking dressing room. Yes. Like four and a half literal hours for trying stuff on trying shit on and a fucking Mac lipstick is not worth it. So she would get that out of you when you were like more of a teen. A teen. And I think the last time it happened was when I was 16 and had a fucking nervous breakdown

on the floor of the fucking changing room of like the Bayes changing room at like fucking Bloomy. Bloomy is what was it called? Blooming? Yeah, Bloomingdale's Bloomingdale's. Yeah. Can't. Oh God, I'm sweating. I'm now sweating. What's funny is my with my mom, it was the inverse where she would be like, you need a new blank for school or whatever. So we go to close time, which was actually down the strip mall for my mom worked close time. No, really? She worked at the corporate office. Yeah. I told you about her. She after a meeting jokingly like did the kick her leg up close time thing, but she was wearing a tight skirt and fucking blew out. Her legs are underneath her and landed on her fucking ass in a corporate office.

Did people go crazy laughing? I don't know. I can't see Janet handling that well. I love her, but she's a very formal lady. She's like she's very like always blown out. She's good with like a you know, like a I love Lucy style. Gaffa. Gaffa? What's it called? Well, you know, a Gaffa. Stunt. Stunt. That's all. I can hear our tour are fucking amazing. Awesome tour agent Joe yelling at how badly we're doing about promoting this. Wait, are we still in that fucking promotion? We're done. Now we're talking about close time. And there's new merch at my favorite murder merch.com. That's it. We send them. We have close time. Oh, merch is a different thing. Sorry. Yeah, I don't know. It's there too. But I like

yeah, that's it. Oh, okay. I have a corrections corner. Hold on. I'm telling my close time story. I forgot. I forgot. I'm sorry. Go. No, I can't remember what it was. It was just that my mom would always be like, you can get a new thing and that we would be in close time for like 17 minutes because I had to look at every item on every rack because things didn't always look good on me. I had wide hips. I'd big a big butt, big boobs, fucking Irish back that I just learned about fucking Irish back early where I was like, what's happening? Yeah. So I try things on. I'd be like, I want to wear plaid this and checkered that because it was the 80s and everyone would be like, no, no, no, no. Sales girls. Truly after like 15 minutes, my mom would be like,

Karen, I've been at work all day. We have to go. And I'd be like this. You wanted this. We can't. I can't shop this way. I can't find my Pat Benatar. Love is a battlefield outfit this way. And that's why you hate shopping today is I'm I was truly scarred. I'll go. I was reversed scarred from you. I'll go with you shopping. I'm really good at this is going to look great on you like, no, it's not. And you try it on you like, oh, you're right. Okay. Can we make that plan in three months? Sure. Okay, great. What's going to happen in three months? Oh, I just personal stuff. You'll stop. You'll stop your your stopping your compulsion of ripping clothes to shreds and clothing stores in the dressing room with me. Just to slap out. She likes to bring a pair of

scissors to clothing stores and just absolutely shredding everything around her. And she doesn't want me to know about it. If I try something on and it has like a weird bump where the buttons don't close, I'll just cut it up with large scissors. So it would be great if you could come with me and help me. I'd love to. Okay, awesome. I'd love to. Corrections corner. Corrections corner. Just real quick. Remember how I kept yelling about just call 911. Just call 911. Oh, yeah. All these like people, all of these probably one person who works at 911, you know, yes, emergency services was like, can you please tell everyone not to call 911 for non-emergency things and instead to find their non-emergency police number? Actually, that's not only is that

a great point program. I have it. Yeah. Is that what you were going to say? Yes. Go ahead. Sorry. No, please. Your non-emergency emergency police station phone number into your phone. That's right. Says police. So you can hit it as fast as 911. But you're not clogging up. Have you ever called 911? No. Wait, no, yes, I did. When the gap when the gap that I worked at in San Francisco and Market Street got robbed, I had to call 911. I couldn't tell them what streets we were on. I couldn't give them a specific address. And basically what these guys did was just really fast shoplifting and they pushed our security guard over as they left. So it was so like grab and go kind of a thing. It was a grab and go that it doesn't, I don't think really count as a robbery

in a major metropolitan city. So they were kind of like, yeah, I guess call us back if, you know, like call us back. If you remember if they had a knife or something. Exactly. It wasn't really a true emergency. Okay. All right. What about you? I've called on like car accidents and maybe a couple, you know, a girl I lived with. This is not funny. I don't know why I'm laughing. I lived with like five girls one time and I was like 20. And one of them locked herself in the bathroom and proceeded to have a seizure. Oh, no. Like, yeah, it was not funny. Why am I laughing? It's pretty crazy. Maybe it stresses you out to tell me a person who has seizures about that story. Yeah, maybe I'm traumatized from it. But everything was fine. You didn't see it? She was fine. It was

bad. No, it's their bloody mess. No, no, no, no, no, she was fine. My thing is I'm always afraid. Yeah, you can't if you're that's the thing that happens like was embarrassed and wanted to hide it. Exactly. I'll tell you how to like kick the door down. And she's like, could I please privately slam my head against the tile? I don't want to seem ugly in front of my friends. That also happens when people are choking people always if they start choking, they get up from the table and go to the bathroom, which you should not do if you're choking stay around people so someone can give you the Heimlich there. I'm so scared of choking. Have you ever eaten something alone? And then you're like the way I just laughed when I was chewing that should have I should have choked on

that and died. No? I don't think a lot when I'm eating alone. It's a blur. There's a lot of noises and like crying. Speaking of being alone, this is my other thing I wanted to tell you. Okay. Okay, here's this is what's wrong with me. And I feel like this is a safe space. Everyone listening has been there. I was I'm listening again to the audiobook of I'll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara because I can't fucking get enough of it. Yep. And I'm listening to it as I fall asleep at night. Dude. I know as I don't fall asleep at night, I should say. So like last week, I'm trying to fall asleep listening to it, which is like the woman's voice you read that's like really kind of it's really soothing and monotone. But the writing is so deep and you're like in it

and I can imagine everything. And so I'm like imagining someone breaking in and how they would do it, which is really I don't want to challenge anyone, but it's kind of fucking hard in this apartment, right? Yeah. No. And I'm laying next to Vince who's sleeping. And then I remember that he's leaving the next day for four fucking nights. And I'm going to be alone doing this. So the next day I texted my dad and I a 37 year old woman had my daddy fucking stay at my house while my husband was at it. Did you really? Yes. That's incredible. Well, that's a testament to how amazing that book is written. But you know, what's really funny and you'll feel less alone. My sister's best friend, Adrienne, who's like my sister. Yeah. Who is the who has been a listener

since episode one. And then I figured I found out she was a murderer now. Like we both were like, wait, what? And we've known each other for 20 years. Well, now 40 years. Good God. But but she called me specifically to say I'm halfway through I'll be gone in the dark. And I am freaking out. She goes, Karen, I have read every true crime book there is. She goes, I've never given a single shit. No, I have. I've plowed through all of an rule. I've done it all. She goes, I don't understand what's happening. I'm laying awake at night. I am scared shitless. I can't stop thinking about how fucked up this guy was. She's like, do you think he's still alive? Like we were having this conversation where I've never, she's the coolest most. Well, she's in

fucking, she's in Northern California too. That's right. That would scare the shit out of me. But she's down here if he's like so. Yes. Yes, for sure. Why? Because that's the last place he killed. I keep going through my head being like, go, go through your head of jobs and what would he be that would make sense of why he was in those specific cities. So I keep going through jobs and I keep going through like, maybe he was a teacher, maybe he was a, you know, a teaching assistant, maybe he was a pilot because there was an Air Force base in Irvine when I was a kid, like, which comes up in the book. And because there was also one right where, like, I think in Carmichael, right? Or Lolita too. There was like, read the book. My god. Listen to it. I think,

I feel like everybody has. Yeah, we're all, we're all done. Stephen just turned his notebook over and I thought he was holding up like a cue card. Will be gone in the dark. He's like, you got the fucking name wrong. You assholes. You are so stupid. Yeah. What if it just said they caught him? They caught him guys. It's happening right now. Georgia, it was your dad. Georgia. You invited him into your house. No, but it is such a good book. It's like, and what I said to Adriana is because she is so good at boiling it down, there's no extra writing and but also it's not sparse. It's just the most concentrated boil down. Here's how it happened. Here's this experience for people and it's all that stuff, which I feel like part of this true crime wave that's just happening to

everybody right now is because this is my personal theory because it's all about the monsters hiding in plain view as like the wolves and sheep's clothing. I'm obsessed with that thing where we are now starting to see our government crack apart like people who claim to be on one side, claim to be on the other, but in truth, they're bought by somebody and you don't even understand how no fucking they're no moral compass. None. Just sociopaths at large that where everyone's going, oh, no, this can't be this way. Yeah. Like, and that's not even that is not partisan. That's like, I feel like there's a different level of something happening where people are starting to to culturally publicly acknowledge that we have people, men and women in our society that are

true monsters that do not seem like anything at all. Yeah. They speak in low tones. They look very pretty or attractive. They say the right things. Yep. They make you feel great. Nothing about it's that Ann Rule's head buddy thing. Totally. You cannot see them coming and it's the scariest fucking thing in the world. Well, it's the same thing with Ann Rule that Michelle McNamara has where it's like, well, she's one of us. Like I just like, I want to when I finish listening to it, I want to go have coffee with her and talk about it. She's just so she's herself just so it's and you can tell how like the book just she describes how obsessed she is. And I totally fucking get it. We totally get it. Remember in the book when she talks about getting that big crazy amount of

files that they kind of like snuck out of the building. Yeah. One of my last conversations with her, she told me about getting the mother load. It was at a patent show. I was on she was in the dressing room and she was like, we just got this thing. And like I just remember it was a very brief conversation. And also I want to say this, it's not like we she and I were best friends. I don't want to try to portray that as we had some amazing relationship. I just knew her. Yeah. We had this conversation. I just remember her like total excitement, but also it was this thing of like like now we have we have 30 times more information like and now now we're really going to start to get into something. It was so fucking nuts. So when I was listening, there's a

three part podcast called I'll Be Gone in the Dark that talks about how the book was made by everyone kind of key players in it. It's really good. And I and for a moment, I was like, I know he doesn't know me, but I wonder if Patton kept those boxes and if I could have one of them. Just one. Yeah. I just want one. Yeah. I wonder if like really Jensen has them or or or the kid. What are the researchers? He's the best. The researcher we called the kid. He's the best. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, what else do you have? Oh, this is very important. We found this out from you and Steven on Twitter. No, Steven and I have started a band. A small porn fashion. Yes. No, this was got this got sent to us as a story, I believe today

on Twitter. I haven't seen it. And it's so amazing. So of course, on the minisodes, we've read a bunch of stories about people finding things in walls. That's been a whole conversation that we've been having. Then there was that story that came through that's incredibly tragic of a woman who fell into her wall. And then her body was discovered years later that baby. That story came through a lot of people sent it to us. We didn't really talk about it because it's just pure tragedy. And it's such a suffocating, terrible feeling. Literally. But then this one came through today. Okay. The headline of this story. Oh, no. Mystery monkey mummy surfaces in Dayton's demolition. No, you never wrote that fucking.

What is it called? Alliteration. No. Yeah. But also what do they call them? The headline. Yeah. That's not what I meant. But then you said, I'm like, yeah, that's what it's called. Okay, let me read this to you. So this, this happened in Minnesota, kind of sodans, long new Dayton's as a store with just about everything. And it's proving even more so. Oh, no. Tim Nelson wrote this, by the way. So Tim, you're just doing a great job. We're only two sentences in. It's proving even more so as Cruz demolished the interior of the iconic downtown Minneapolis store for redevelopment. The latest, a dead monkey. What a quote. We don't know a lot about this monkey. But I can't say that there was a monkey found during renovation. We continue to

find a lot of pieces of history like this in the Dayton's project as we redevelop the building. What's historical about a monkey? Unfortunately, this was one of the recent discoveries. Cruz had previously discovered a wallet long ago stolen from an employee in 1969. Ooh. And found during demolition of a wall. Oh, that's fun. A demolition worker submitted a photo of the dead monkey to the Facebook group, Old Minneapolis. So go join that. So a bunch of, like, old women, old ladies who were like, that's an old, old Minneapolis. They're trying to, they're trying to enter stuff on Facebook. Like, how does this work? That was a robot grandma. I don't know why I said it like that. And long time customers employees respond with tales of pet

shop on the store's eighth floor and a monkey that went missing in the 60s. Can you imagine how depressing a 1960s fucking pet shop on the eighth floor of a department store it was? They create, imagine you're in a department store like Mervyn's style, but it's the 60s and they're like, oh, you can buy a monkey there too. Do you need a broad? Do you need some plates? No, it's happy. It loves department stores. It loves, it loves a cage. It just loves two feet of room. We really don't know the story or the origin behind this find. There are a lot of ideas and theories right now, but none that we can say we understand to be true. I bet, I bet they're funny. Oh, wait, interestingly, Robinsdale mayor, Reagan Murphy, says he may know the riddle of the

monkey. My dad once stole a monkey from a Dayton's display back in the 60s. What? They decided to bring it back after it shat all over my dad's friend's bedroom while they were at school. It says the word shat in this newspaper article. Explain my face right now. Georgia's baffled. Horrified confusion, I would call it. Yeah, that's right. You just don't know what's going on. They returned it by letting it loose in the store. That is probably, this is probably that monkey. He just outed his dad so hard. It's hilarious. And now they're having a huge influx of leasing in Greece. Congratulations, everybody, at the Dayton's renovation. That's the best fucking story of all time. I am baffled and I love it. I wonder if someone, if it's shadow over

that room, they released it in the store. The manager gets there the next morning. It's shadow over the store. He takes the monkey, strangles it with his own hands, sticks it in the wall. I don't think that kind of man overpower a monkey. No. Scratch his fucking eyes out. Monkeys are 10 times more powerful than people. Second question. Why is he in a display? Don't put live animals in a display and a fucking pet store on the sixth floor, everyone. Yeah, but remember when like Melanie Griffith's mother, Tippi Hedrin, had her own tiger? Yep. There was a weird shit going on in like the 60s and 70s of people and like exotic pets that couldn't actually be controlled. For sure. Goodbye, everybody. Let's go think about it. We're going to go look

it up. See you later. Don't laugh into your coffee mug. Don't laugh into your KCRW coffee mug. Now it's a horse. Click clock, click clock. Caren turned into a demon horse. Click clock, click clock. Listen, I look and listen. I put some extra oxygen in the air for us. So we get a little wacky. Hi, everybody. Who goes first tonight, Stephen, on this lovely hot evening? Steve. Shit. I don't know either, Stephen. I think I went first last time, didn't I? Yeah, but last week was Skylight. The whole Skylight books all be gone in the dark event. Well, I had to talk first. You talked the most. I was like, I am not joining in. 100% no.

That kind of sucked because Patton and I have known each other since we were 23. Jesus. And you're what now, 30? Yep. Can you tell by my extremely large neck that I'm only in my early 30s? Yeah, so I was letting you guys do it. I mean, plus I was sitting in between the two of you and I'm like, I'm not going to, I used to go watch you guys fucking perform when I was 20 at Largo on Fairfax and just like, oh my God, like I'm not going to add anything to this conversation. As if we'd let you. I mean, if anyone's ever hung out with comments, you know that it is like an elbow throwing verbal. And it's not my, whatever I have to say is not worth that.

Let's get any little elbow. So wait, so either we can do who wants to go first, or we can try to remember who went first the week before. What would you rather do? What would you rather do? I don't care. I honestly don't care. I want to go first. Do it. Can I? Yeah, of course. Just because. Yeah. Look. Listen. I have a can and a half of sparkling wine so I can tell a story still. Yes. All right. Okay. Can and a half of sparkling wine. Classy as fuck. That's who I am. Congratulations. Congratulations to you because I have to tell you something. Okay. You were right about something. You know what? Can we just sit in that for one second?

I know. I know you'd want to. It doesn't happen that often. Just hearing the words. Okay. Thanks. Karen, you were 100% right. The alienist is a good show. Yes. You were right. It's fucking great. I have two episodes left. I can't wait, but I love it. I mean, that's what I watched while Vince was out of town. So good, right? So good. Because it's giving you enough of your true crime or your crime. That wasn't true. I don't think maybe based on true, but also there's like the visuals of that show. It's gorgeous and fucking fanning Dakota. She's nailing it. Nailing it. Do you think she puts drops in her eyes to make her pupils

be cartoonishly large like that? I wonder if it's the lighting guy. Lighting human. It doesn't have to be a guy. That's right. Well, it is based on true shit. Because here's how I know they went and did something and I was like, what is that thing they're talking about? Looked it up. This is the story of the Boston boyfiend, Jesse Pomeroy. Holy fuck. Yeah, I'm going there. What's wrong? I didn't do this guy. I didn't. Did you? I looked it up and you did the smiley face. No, no, no. Tell it into this. Okay, so Karen and I, hold on. Stephen tried to go off mic with this because he's like,

I don't want to, I don't want to fucking throw it because so see Karen and I both today apparently had to text Stephen to go, did we do this? Let's hear it. Well, no, it doesn't matter anyway. I know it doesn't. Well, the visuals I sent because I think you originally wanted to do this and then you didn't because it's horrible because it's horrible and the final visuals were the Giggler and the smiley face killer. And it doesn't matter too because the episode we posted from Boston isn't this one. So it's only to those people in Boston in the audience who are turning this off right now. Okay, great. But they wouldn't because now it's your turn to tell the story. This is almost like a, what is it? The Twilight Zone movie.

Wait, so you did do the. Do you think you did this? All I know. No, no, no, no. I mean, anything's possible, you guys. All I know is I know the Jesse Pomory picture where he's got one. Yeah, I think you did it. But I could have just looked at it. I do that kind of thing where I'm like, look at that weird illustration of a bad boy killer in the end. I remember. But I was so deep into this by then. It was five o'clock. I want to hear it all. Okay. I want to hear you tell it to me because I here's it. I don't remember it. So perfect because I don't either except for the eye. Okay, except for the eye. You know this, this photo, this drawing, not it's not a photo. It's a drawing of a boy who's got like a milky, weird eyes, like a, you know, looks 12 or

13 in the photo. Okay. This is who we're talking about. Yeah. This is Jesse Harding Pomory. He was born into a lower middle class family in one of the worst slums of South Boston at the time in the late 1800s. Charlestown had to look it up. So I didn't say Charleston. Oh, Charlestown. Good one. Massachusetts. It's the oldest neighborhood in Boston. So Jesse is born in November on November 29th, 1859. Let's fucking go back there. That's all the way back. That's way far back. He's the second of two children. His dad, Thomas is a fucking asshole and a veteran of the Civil War. Drinks has a horrible temper. He beats Jesse with a horse whip or leather belt all the time, often making him strip completely before he beats him. That's not good. Can I just say this though?

Yeah. I heard that the Civil War is pretty bad. Yeah. So you fucks your brain up. If he was a survivor, like it's served, was a veteran, but I can got through it. Saw some shit. He saw some deep, dark Dr. Song People's Legs on style shit. Okay. Saw some shit and beating your kid wasn't like crazy back then. Beating your kid in 1859 was a form of self-expression. Yeah. If you didn't do it, you were being soft on them. Yeah, that's right. Right? Ruth Ann Snowman was his mother. She was a seamstress. She adored Jesse and throughout all of this shit going on, she never fucking wavered on her thinking on defending him. Aw. Aw, but come on. Okay. Lady. Well, he sometimes denials helpful. That's true. Okay. So he had been a sick baby, left him kind of...

There's all these different accounts of what... Okay. Here's what I'm going to tell you. I found that the most times about what was wrong with him. Okay. Because there's so many accounts. It said that he was sick as a baby, which left him scrawny and frail. But it also said that he had a large body, oversized body, huge fucking head. His dome was like banana-sized, like so large. His had some large, like weird features. I just watched the Andre, the giant documentary last night. So I'm like picturing his hand holding a fucking beer bottle. When it looks like a Barbie toy in a big hand, bless his heart. How sad would it be if you had a huge body, but you were still scrawny? Yeah. That sucks. Maybe that... Maybe his head was normal size and his body was scrawny,

so it looked like a giant head. Maybe he was a great alien. Anyway, maybe he was a psychopath. Scrawny and frail. It's reported that, quote, many people, according to some accounts, including his father, it said, could barely look at him without a shutter because his right eye, maybe due to illness or a reaction to a smallpox vaccine, one thing says about an accident. It's just hard to tell. I'm sure historians yelling at me right now. He had a thick white film covering his pupil, so he had one white, milky, like marble eye. Got it. That might have had a cleft palate. He was... I just want to say really quick, that just made me think of Jimmy Pardo and his Smile Train. You know Jimmy Pardo on Never Not

Funny Podcast. He does all this, like every year he does the podcast with Thon, and he raises all this money for Smile Train. And Smile Train goes out and gives anybody that can't afford the surgery to fix it, they go fix them. That's the most gorgeous thing I've ever heard in my life. It's very, very cool. It's very sweet. Okay, sorry. I just wanted to say that. No, slightly positive things. Can you just every couple, every page add in a fucking positive thing, please? Should we do that? Because this is a really depressing story. Because this is a bad one. Yeah, but I'm doing it. Okay, do it. So everyone said that there was something wrong with Jesse, that he wasn't quite right.

He got bullied and teased a lot at school. A neighbor said that at five years old, and here's where I lose all fucking sympathy, Jesse stabbed a cat and threw it in the river. Oh, goodbye. If he had a bad eye and a cleft palate, he had a shitty time at school. It's been every single goddamn day. I agree. You're right. Every day in South fucking Boston, he got teased mercilessly. Shitty. Yes. This was back when bullying was again, like beating your children. Celebrated. Celebrated. This isn't the way it is now. Yeah. Yeah. So and pets also disappeared from their home all the time. That's a bad sign. He was a loner. He never played or really spoke with other children in the neighborhood,

maybe because they fucking bullied me because they were assholes. Yeah, he preferred to spend his time alone reading dime novels. His favorite was a series based on a man named Simon Gertie. He was a renegade white dude amongst the Shawnee Indians and he let they all went on a front on frontier settler massacres in the 1780s and they made a fucking like serial dime store novels about this. Wow. Yeah. He was on Native American side. Yeah. Wow. Massacred. Shit. Yeah. Which is like something they talk about in The Alienist. That's exactly right. So creepy. Oh, so they took pieces. They must have. Awesome. Off of this. Okay. Here we go. Okay. And the stories are full of blood and sex and gore and wars and

battle and crazy shit. And this kid, little kid is reading this stuff. So it's like video games now. Like did it do it or did it not? We don't know. Or us with Stephen King. I mean, I read Stephen King way too young. Yeah. Yeah, but that wasn't real. It was like campy and kind of. I wish someone had told me that. Oh, shit. Karen. Wait, so you didn't know cars can't talk. I've been trying to light shit on fire with my eyes for a year. I know. That's why you get headaches. My daddy actually used to say that when I would get mad. He go, don't give me those fire starter eyes. Oh, shit. Okay. So Jesse's first reported attack took place in the Boston suburb of Chelsea, which was across the river from where they lived. He goes over to Chelsea. Jesse had just turned

12 years old. He's a fucking baby. He's a baby. It's around Christmas time of 1871. And Jesse somehow entices a small boy named Billy Payne to come with him to a remote area. And as soon as they're alone, and don't worry, I don't get too detailed. Okay. Jesse forces the child to take off all his clothes just like his fucking dad does. And then he ties him up and takes a rope and flogs the child. The kid once he's, and then Jesse leaves once the kid is found, he's too traumatized to give police a good description of who attacked him. I think just said he was a teenager or something like that because he also looked, it was tall and looked old for his age. Two months later, and this is like, this is so crazy because it's such a quick succession of

attacks. Yeah. Two months later in February of 1872, Jesse led seven-year-old Tracy Hayden to the same area, promising that they were going to, quote, see the soldiers because that's where they were fought. He repeated his first assault on Tracy as well as on his next victim in May of 1872, eight-year-old Robert Mayer, who he lured away by promising him a trip to see the circus. Oh. In this attack, the boy said that the salient, who he couldn't describe, sexually pleasured himself while inflicting his beating. And he achieved sexual satisfaction at the height of the boy's suffering. God, he's so young to be doing that. He's so, something is going on at home or other places. Some bad, bad stuff. Like two, two, I feel like it takes years for people to equate

pain and sex. Right. You know what I mean? Like that happens when kids are older and they're teens and twenties because it takes so fucking long to get to that place where your brain is like, these are the things that turn me on and make me come. Except for if your dad is stripping you and beating you. Well, it's that your dad is stripping you and beating you so often that it happened by the time he was 12. Yeah. So I'm not going to tell myself something is going on his entire fucking life to get him there. Yeah. It's so dark. I know. Okay. And I'm doing it. It does look like Steven keeps holding up a fucking, no, a fucking cute car for us. It literally looks like in the car of fire. It looks like Steven's like 30 seconds, 30 seconds to commercial. I think it's because this, I upgraded

my notebook to be a lot bigger. Oh, so it looks like, well, let's write some messages on there. No, that's fine. Tell me anything. Just right. You're doing great, Georgia. No one is horrified by this. No one thinks, no one's going to stop listening to this podcast because of this. Yeah, this is actually what people listen for. Oh, great. Okay. Great. Not great. However. Okay. So then he took off, left the boy alive. So keeping with his 60 to 90 day cycle, Jesse then in mid July of 1872 lures seven year old Johnny Bulk to the outhouse on the Powderhorn Hill in Boston, excuse me, with this promise of two bits for running an errands, who's like, come on over here. Two bits, two bits. Don't know how much that is. The assault was similar

to the previous ones. The boy was stripped, bound, whipped and beaten until Jesse achieved orgasm. Then he said he'd kill the boy if he ever told anyone and he got the fuck out of there. The public starts going bananas. They flip out. They start calling him the mysterious boy fiend. The police are under pressure to capture him, but they didn't have very much of a description to go on other than the attacker was a teenage boy with brown hair. That's all they fucking had. Wow. Yeah. So like all the teenage boys got rounded up and they were like parading them in front of the victims and they couldn't identify any of them. The city of Chelsea offers a thousand dollar reward and the police launch an investigation. The attacks stop at this point just for a little

while in late July, possibly due to turmoil in the Pomeroy house when Jesse's father takes off and leaves Ruth to provide for herself and her sons. There's like not information about why he left or what, but kind of good riddance. Yeah, for real. But it could also be so they end up moving and that could be because the dad left, but it could also be because there was a description of the boy torturer in the paper and she possibly read it, recognized it as her son, and was like, eat. We're getting the fuck out of town. Out of town. This neighborhood. And this was long ago, long ago enough that if your description got put in the paper and you left town and just moved like a neighborhood, no one would find out. And no one knew you.

Yes. At the next neighborhood. Yeah, totally. It's not like what's that app we have where we can talk to our neighbors about weird shit in the neighborhood. Fucking next door. Do you love it? My neighborhood, it's filled with paranoid lunatic retirees who are like, who's stealing the oranges off my tree? It's insanity. I read it. I read laugh and delete them every single day. Well, this wasn't happening. Okay. Then she, okay. So Ruth rents a small storefront in South Boston for her dressmaking shop. She opens a dressmaking shop in August of 1872. The three of them, the mom and sons moved to a flat across the street from the shop and the boys help out in the shop and the move coincides almost exactly with the end of the

Chelsea attacks and the beginning of the South Boston attacks. So yeah. And this is where Marky Mark comes into this story. That's right. Do a fucking, I dare you to do an accent right now. That's all I can do. That was the best anyone's ever done. I don't understand the Boston accent. I can't do it. I can't hear it in my head. I don't get it. Had it when I was trying to get Charlestown, but it's gone and I won't try it. Okay. On August 17th, 1872, seven-year-old George Pratt was wandering around South Boston shoreline looking for treasure. Treasure? A little boy looking for treasure. Oh, no. Sorry. I ruined that word for you. That's okay. When he was approached by an older boy who offered him 25 cents to help him run an errand, Jesse binds and tortures the boy

and this time it, so it starts to escalate at this point. Okay. He bites chunks of flesh from the boy's body and also stabs him with the needles. Fuck. I know. And this kid's 12 who's doing this. Less than a month later, Jesse kidnaps an assault six-year-old, a six-year-old boy named Harry Austin, stripped and beaten like his previous victims, but this time it escalates. He takes out his pocket knife and stabs the child under each arm. I guess it wasn't, but wasn't a deep stab and he goes to try to castrate the boy, but gets that someone comes by just at that moment and he runs off. Good. God, thank God. I know, right? Then six days after this, so six like this is a fucking fiend. This person is mad. He's a sexual psychopath. That's right. At 12

doing these things. Horrible. Six days after Austin was attacked, Jesse Lewis, Joseph Kennedy, who was seven, into the marshes near the bay and viciously beats him like Austin, attacked with a knife. And Jesse forces the boy to kneel and recite the Lord's prayer, but with obscenities, which is such a childish, weird thing to do. You know what's funny is in the, when you first started talking about this, I was like, I wonder if this guy's Catholic, this boy's Catholic. I wonder like maybe something was going on in his home, like not just with his dad, obviously, but in his school or at church, some creepy priests somewhere along the line. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. As much as people want to think like you're born this way, you're born evil. It's not

a thing. I mean, if he's a sociopath, he wouldn't care if he's hurting people, but it does. You don't become a sociopath. You don't, you're not born a sociopath. You become a sociopath. No, I think you're born a sociopath. Is it nature or nurture? Let's decide right now. Let's debate it. Let's, let's debate it. Woo. Let us know what you guys think, please. In the, in a forum on the My Favorite Murder fan cult, let's, let's all scream at each other about nature versus nurture. Constantly cross promoting and selling. That's right. Also real quick, I have a, I, you can buy detergent from Amway from me if you just DM me. I'll sell you some detergent. Great. Great. Good lead. Okay. Six. Okay. Six days later, like the fact that he thought that

reciting the Lord's prayer, but with obscenities was like part of the torture shows what a child he was and how, and how, uh, how off his understanding of, I don't know, I just, I have to say when you just said that fact, it kind of made my heart race a little bit. Oh, because it's like you're going to get like fucking say the boys during the Lord's prayer. The boy refused to do it. Yes. Yeah. That's very like, that's, that's so taboo. It's, it's like a consecrated, that's not the right word, but it's holy thing. It's like you're talking to God. So it's like you're saying, fuck you God. Oh no. Which is not allowed in 1860, whatever. Can you, um, can you sample that track of Karen saying, fuck you God and just put a fucking hard techno beat and then send it,

send it to her school that she went to her Catholic school. Fuck you God. That would be amazing. This is not funny. Okay. No, it's not. Six days later, five year old rock. It's actually stressing me out. I'm sorry. No, no, I mean, because it's just, it's bad. It's bad. I know. No, no, go ahead. Okay. Stressing in a good way. Okay. Six days later, five year old, a five year old boy named Robert Gold was found lashed to a post near railroad tracks in South Boston and told, and he told about an older boy who lured him to the remote area with a promise to see soldiers. And then when they were alone, the boy stripped him and beat him and, um, slashed him. And this kid, Robert was finally able to give the police their

first good lead in the case after all these victims. He described his attacker as a large boy with an eye like a white marble. Oh, okay. I wonder why none of these other boys, he must have hid it from them somehow. I think they were really traumatized too. Yeah, I guess that's true. I don't think they could talk about it. Maybe? Yeah. Who knows? So horrible. The Boston police, okay. So then, uh, they're like, great. They fucking conduct a classroom by classroom search of the Boston school system. They even go to Jesse's fucking school, but somehow they didn't see him. And then for an unknown reason, maybe guilt, maybe toying with them, who the fuck knows? Maybe he was 12 and didn't have, wasn't thinking the way we think.

Fuck, on his way home from school that day, Jesse walks into the South Boston police station where detectives are sitting and questioning the victim, Joe Kennedy. He's, Joe spots Jesse from across the room. And in the meantime, Jesse's like, for some reason, like bad ideas, like fucking crab walking out of there. But fucking Joe Kennedy is like, that's fucking him and starts yelling it, that that's him. And so the police grab him. Okay. A few other victims were able to identify Jesse as their attacker, including one from the Chelsea neighborhood who explained, that's the boy who cut me. Shit. Later that night during questioning, he confesses to all the crimes and he's, but he later recants all of that, but he is arrested.

And due to his age, he's sentenced to the state reform school at Westboro for the term of his minority six years. So he's 12 years old and they're like, you did all this horrible stuff. You're going to a reformatory school. Okay. That's it. The end. No. Unfortunately. Do you want it to be? No, no, no, no, no. Jesse is a star inmate. He applies himself to his studies, but of course he's bullied by the other children and his mother is like, how the fuck and now he didn't do it. And she hardcore petitions for his parole and it's confirmed before he even spent two years there. So Jesse, he's now 13 is quietly paroled into his mother's custody on February 6, 1874. These pieces of the story are coming back to me. Like the thing of the in the police station

where I'm like, I think I did do this at a live show. I think you did. But my brain is such that it's also a very new experience where I'm like, he did not get parole in New York in New York. I don't fucking know. Who cares? Let's just talk. Let's just talk. That's what our podcast is all about. Let's just talk. We love talking. Okay. So he's paroled and then in April on April 22, 1874. All right. This let's get spammer. Okay. I mean, not that it hasn't been two boys playing in the marshes between South Boston and seven near South Boston. Say it. Savin Hill. Spell it. SAVIN. Savin. Savin or Savin. Savin Hill. Or a third option that we could never anticipate. That's not spelled the way it sounds. Or yeah, it's it's seven. Okay, go ahead. They

discovered the body of a young boy lying on his back in the mud. Oh, I know. So little boys find a dead little boy. Yeah. Police or summoning the boys identified as Horace Millen of South Boston. He's four years old. I know. I'm sorry. His throat's been cut and his body had been had numerous stab wounds around 33 total. Whoa. He'd also been sexually mutilated. Fucking poor little escalation escalation. Yeah. Police found footprints nearby that led back to a wharf a half a mile away. And there they like follow the fucking footprints and they're like, Hey, anyone around here see anything this morning? And a bunch of witnesses recall a young teenager walking around with Horace, the boys, the two boys, the teenager and Horace, then jump from

the wharf. The older boy helps his little companion down. And then he takes the older boys' hand and together they walk away across the marshes towards where Horace's body had been found. Awful. I know. And also very Mary Bell. Yeah, exactly. Mary Bell is like always mentioned in this kind of, yeah, in his articles. Yeah, it's that same thing. And she was, she was being basically sexually tortured. Totally. There's no way he wasn't. Yeah. I mean, even just like his, what his dad was doing to him, it was way more than that. Yes. Not that that's an excuse. This is horrible. Here we go. All bad. Okay. This time because of his record, though, the police fucking were like, we know who did this. They arrest Jesse at

his home where they found blood on his clothes, scratches on his skin and the sole of his boots match. The imprints left on the sand. And there was also marshmallow on his boots. And so when the police confronted him and asked him if he'd done it, he replied, I suppose so. Oh, non plus. I suppose so. His only request was that the police not tell his mother of his of the latest crime. So I think his mom was like crazy, probably religious and overprotective of him. Yeah. And, you know, that made him crazy too. She also I bet maybe had some guilt because the dad was so awful. Right. There's no way to correctly parent a child. I'm sorry to tell you guys. Georgia with parenting advice. Look, three cats. That equals one child, right? That's what we

agreed upon. One silent child. That's what we agreed on. A few days later, though, he takes back his confession, denies any wrongdoing, etc. So he's waiting trial. He's sitting in fucking jail waiting trial. And Ruth Pomeroy, his mommy fucking dearest, she continues to reverentiously insist Jesse's innocent. She's forced to close her her dress shop a month after Jesse's arrest. And because the public was pissed the fuck off, probably. Yeah. And her shop's now vacant. Hi. How are we doing? Our shop's now vacant. I'm going to give you a clue. It's not a monkey that they find. Oh, no. Shop's vacant. It's rented out by the owner of a nearby grocery store. He starts renovations. Don't do that. Do it, though. In late July, a worker knocking down a wall in

the cellar notices some bright fabric sticking out of a pile of ashes and rubbish, rubbish. He reaches down and gives it a pull and a child skull rolls out of the rolls out. Ugh. And the scream could be heard four blocks away. Four decades. Oh, yay. The police were summoned. They're not called. They are summoned. They're not because there's no phones. The police have a long letter written to them that they received two months later. A tin can is held up with a string. The police are like, a line of children yell down the street in grape in a what's that called? Oh, telephone. Telephone formation. No, it's not called that, though. Yeah, when you whisper into

people's ears. Yeah, but there's no such thing as a telephone, so it's not called that. Is this pre-telephone days? Isn't it? I don't know. Someone assigned a telephone person email us. A telephone scientist. We'd love to hear from you. Is that a thing? Email us. That you're just going to be some person. Actually, I am a telephone scientist, and you're correct. Like, it's going to be some sweet email. It's going to be higher. Now, but we deserve. My name's Jan Edison, and my great-grandfather was Thomas Edison. Do you want a tour of the telephone? Because everyone who emails us is nice. Like, we don't deserve how nice everyone is to us. No one attacks us. Never.

Everyone's like, we think you're great. We get what you meant. And we forgive your stupidity. Here's the facts that we should be saying. Oh, God, we're so lucky. Okay. Police are pretty sure this Gallatin belongs to. Because earlier that year, on March 18th, just six weeks after Jesse got out of that reformatory before his first murder of Horace, nine-year-old Katie Curran had disappeared while running an errand in the neighborhood of the dress shop. The cops had searched the entire neighborhood, including the Pomeroy store, but stopped searching when another kid in the area told them that they'd seen a girl matching Katie's description get into a buggy with a strange man. Plus, they were like, Jesse likes boys.

So. Oh, right. It's not his ammo. Right. So, but Katie's mother identifies the clothes that they found as Katie's and an angry crowd gathers around the block. So they take Mrs. Pomeran Charles, the brother, into custody for their safety. They end up being there for like six fucking weeks. Whoa. Yeah. Because people are just like, they had it. Yeah. Yeah. And they need to be witnesses in the trial too. Jesse confesses to Katie's murder. He tells the chief of police that Katie had gone. So Katie had gone out that morning to buy a school thing, a school supply thing, but had gone into the Pomeroy, Pomeroy store by mistake. She had asked Jesse if they had one. He was manning the counter alone. I remember how she was like, you guys got to work here.

Yeah. Um, he lied and told her there was a store downstairs. And then he said that when she went downstairs, quote, I followed her, put my left arm around her neck, about her neck and my hand over her mouth. And with my knife and my right hand, I cut her throat. I then dragged her to and behind the water closet and put some stones and ashes on the body. So fucking crazy. It's so bad. And it's, it is reminding me of the alienist. Like, yeah, it's so parallel. It's amazing. Well, they go and interview him, remember, in his solitary confinement to try to find the killer in this, in the show. That's right. Remember, that's why I found that chain. And oh my God. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Guys, watch it. Uh, but Katie's body had, did show signs that he had done more to her

than he said. There'd also been, um, wounds, sad wounds and mutilation, much like the millen kid. Later, when asked at an inquest why he done it, Jesse said, I don't know. I couldn't help it. But it's here, said pointing to his head. It is here, he said while he pointed at his head. You said that twice for underlining. It's here. And that's not a quote. It is, it is here. It's just so awkward. Okay. That's how people talk back. I know, especially in Boston, especially in Boston. Okay. Okay. In December, Jesse's tried for the millen murder and people are like, how the fuck did this happen? I guess this was not a normal thing. This, there had never been a boy serial killer before. He's the first fucking one in America. They wanted to know why

he committed such atrocities. Tons of experts were hired and they all hypothesized what was wrong with him. But also like, it's crows back then. No one knew what the fuck was going on. It's the telephone and that person was a witch and got drowned. It's these gas lamps they're trying to put into our homes. Exactly. There's no such thing as telephones. You're a witch. They ultimately though didn't think he was insane, just evil and had no feelings for his victims and felt no remorse for any of his acts, which we all know that now. Come on. And Ruth continues to fucking be like, he's innocent. And she was even like, Katie's body was put in the cellar after she left the store by someone else to like frame her kid. She just wouldn't fucking buy it. Honey. I know, sweetie.

Well, Jerry convicts Jesse on first remurder with a recommendation of mercy because of his age. So he could have, they could have recommended death by hanging, but they were like, he's fucking 14 at this point. God. And but then the judge was like, nope. I sentenced him to be fucking hanged. Yep, hanged. Which and everyone freaked out and was like, you can't hang a child. And so eventually his sentences commuted to life in solitary confinement. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So on September 7th, 1876, just three months shy of a 17th birthday. Okay, I was wrong about the age. Just three months shy of a 17th birthday. Jesse was taken to the state prison at Charlestown, where for the next 16 years he lived in a 10 by 8 by 8 cell built in 1805 to house the insane. So you can't imagine it

was fucking choice digs in that. And in that TV show, it's awful. It's like a dungeon basically. Totally. And he's so fucking scary. How about that fucking actor who I didn't even think until this very moment was an actor because he was so scary in that part. Is he? Who is he? Who is he? Jesse Palmer. Great job, fictional Jesse Palmer. That's right. Okay, so he tries to escape all the time. It doesn't happen. But he also becomes a voracious reader, reads all 8,000 books in the prison library, which is like, you got time on your hand. Yeah, that's right. He learns French, German, Greek, Latin, all this other shit. And he becomes what? And then he becomes Hannibal Lecter. I mean, what the fuck? Yeah, yeah. That's also insanely tragic, because if his fucking father

left him alone, he could have been in my theory, a sociopath who doesn't hurt people, but who was incredibly intelligent and then just kind of didn't care if he saw bad things happen. Or it's like two that you think like if he hadn't had these these oddities about him, that kids didn't fucking mercilessly bully him about, he wouldn't have been so angry and have so much anger to get out on children that were smaller than him. You know, they took it out on him, whatever was going on in those kids house, he took it out on smaller children. Yeah. But the difference is like teasing and being mean is one thing, but what this guy did was like, he's a psychopath. Totally. Yeah. I mean, between home and school, though, he never had

a moment of not being, because they didn't just tease him. I'm sure they beat him up and shit. I'm not defending a fucking psych like serial killer. No, no, no. But you are arguing nature versus nurture. I am never. I am doubling up on my birth control tonight, because I am never having fucking children. Just take two extra. It'll be fine. I do think nature versus nurture. I think nature and nurture, but I don't think you can have. I don't think. All right. Anyways, you'll read about it in the forum. George is going to take this online, explain it to you. Why explain it on a podcast when you can go online and explain your how many semesters of psychology did I take at community college, do you suppose? Did you do half and then drop out? I probably took level one,

like three times and dropped out each time. You heard that story of the guy that got the fencing sword up his nose that touched his frontal lobe and lost his long term memory or whatever. Right. It's very fascinating. Phineas Gage. Okay. Is that him? Yeah. Okay. And he would come. Phineas Gage is the guy that had the full on railroad tie in his head, though. What were you talking about? There's one guy that got a fencing sword that went up his nose, touched his frontal lobe, and then every time you walked in the door, he'd be like, hi, good to see you. And then you'd leave and one minute later and he'd be like, oh my God, hi, good to see you. That must have been level two because I don't know that guy. Karen, you must have gone further than me.

But also, I don't think we even have to say this anymore. Could be completely wrong about that. But we aren't. Okay. Greek, Latin, etc. Oh, and he becomes obsessed with learning about law and attempt to get himself the fuck out of prison. Wow. All this shit happens, but it never works, obviously. Later, a commission of three psychiatrists, maybe our fucking dude from the alienists. Oh, yeah, that's right. And a prison physician studied him. And in 1914, after he'd spent 38 years in solitary, they found him to be sane and intelligent, but a cold paranoid manipulator, utterly obsessed with his pardon. So the only person who visited him was his mother, who visited him every month and tell her death around 1915. Wow. And then in the late 1920s, Jesse was the state's oldest

prisoner. Whoa. Which is like, and you can, there's photos, there's like photographs of him. He looks like just an old man. Yeah. Because he was just an old man. I wonder what would happen if he had let him out. He would have murdered people. He would immediately go kill a child. He and Albert Fish would be like, what's up? Real. We're going to be roomies. I've got your needle. This is a fucking sitcom. Yeah. I got your needles. Okay. Okay. In 1916, 41 years into his fucking sentence. So he's like, double the time he was alive. Yeah. Or out. Right. You know what I mean. Jesse's solitary confinement is lifted. He had spent the longest stretch in solitary confinement, second only to the Birdman of Alcatraz. Oh, that's right. Yeah. The Birdman of Alcatraz is a good

movie by the by. I should watch it again. Clint Eastwood, Alcatraz, San Francisco, Birds. What, what more could you want? Listen, we're offering you so much. Look at that movie. Okay. We're coming to an end here, guys. Calm down. In 1929, 92. And then he wrote books in Chateau in 19, and I'm going to read you one now. Yes. In 1929, 71 year old Jesse Pomeroy is removed from the general population at Charlestown, taken by automobile, his first and only ever fucking automobile ride. He's taken by automobile, automobile. Yeah. To an automobile. To an automatic. To a bridge water prison farm for medical care. First only car ride. First time being outside of the prison in about 55 fucking years. Jesus. And everyone was like, he seemed non fucking

plush by it. He just didn't give a shit. Didn't give a shit, which is like fair enough. Your brain at that point has to be mush. Two years later, after 58 years in prison, almost all of it spent in solitary confinement, Jesse Pomeroy, the boyfiend dies at Bridgewater. He was dismissed in the press as quote, the most friendless person in the world and quote, a psychopath. His final wishes were that his body be cremated and his asherds, that's my brother's name, and his ashes scattered to the forewinds. Wow. That's the story of boyfiend, Jesse Pomeroy. Boston. It is. That is the most nutso story. I know. I tried to do my best of not. It was great. Okay. It was fresh and new for me. I just wanted to tell you. The finished page of this podcast

where it's always a new story for me. I pulled something out of my nose. I just really wanted to tell you you were right about the alien. I kept going back to that and like, why are you doing this story? It's so horrible. And it's like Karen will like the start of it. 100%. I like the whole thing. But also because I feel like those are the stories. Those are the stories I like to talk about the most because it's long, long ago. So we don't have to be as sad as we normally feel. Right. Even though it's awful. And then there's that interest of like the way things were set up. This was like probably right when like police forces. Right. It's all that kind of stuff where everyone was learning. And I'm sure no one was going to go. Oh yeah, 12 year olds killing these

kids. Sure. Like no one there. I'm sure they were like a wolf is loose in Boston. I mean, I didn't get into how fucking bananas the press went over this at the time. Yeah. It was it was unprecedented. And I think stories like this and fucked up stories like the Candyman and shit are like important because you can't just like you have to this exists. And this is what happened. And we you know, you have to I don't have to tell you exactly what he did to his victims. But I but it's a crazy fucking story that and it's a real thing that right. This is a human condition. Even though it's extreme and rare. This is something people human beings can do. Yeah, which people have been in denial about right, which is why we're obsessed with true crime

is that we can't believe that humans are capable of this. So we want to know as much as possible because we're so compounded by it. Yeah. And so you can't skip over the really, really worst ones because those happen too. I mean, you can people are tuning in for that shit. Nobody wants that. Everyone's like, tell me the worst, please. Well, I was just thinking like all the people who are like, I have a baby boy and I can't read. I can't listen to this stuff. And I'm like, all right, well, I have two baby nephews and I want to I want to know about this shit. I'm fascinated. It horrifies me. I want to know babies. Quit bragging everybody. Oh, please. We all know babies. Quit holding your baby friendships over my head. I like what I like.

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pan since like early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and HelloFresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Arisha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast Even The Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about

the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation, and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even The Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Mine is another one of these stories, interestingly, that's so famous. I was had to contact as we said, contact Steven, because I was like, how do we not do this yet? Yeah. And as I read it, I was like, I could hear you, I could hear your voice saying it. Yeah, like this could

be. I could be making a huge mistake. It's the story of Issei Sagoa, the Japanese cannibal who walks free. Do you know? I don't. And I know if I would have known if you've done this. Get ready to fucking scream on the night of June 11 1981. By the way, Steven helped me with most of this research with the chronology today. Thank you, Steven. But then I also watched the beginning of an amazing documentary from Channel 4, Britain's Channel 4 channel that makes incredible documentaries for TV. And there was a really old one that they had made about this guy. And it was called Excuse Me for Living, which is the name of one of the books he ended up writing. That's a great name. Isn't it the best? But then you when you find out what I don't want him to own it. I

know it's so good. But it really goes crazy in depth on his side of things and kind of like whatever his experience. But it's really, really fascinating and really well put together and very old. It looks like you're watching footage from like the 50s. I love it. The older the better because then they can't like shit doesn't get like clouded and facts don't get affected. Yes, let me hear. I don't know anything about it. Okay, cool. Also in this documentary, there's British people from what look like the 70s always a joy. There's people named Colin with with wiry crazy hair that's going over to one side eyebrows. Yes, there's a lot of action, a lot of tweed. Love it. Highly recommend. Okay, so on the night of June 11 1981, 25 year old Dutch

student Renee Hartveld was studying at the Sorbonne in Paris. And she arrived at her classmates flat thinking she was there to help him translate some German poetry for him. Never trust a German poet. There you go. She met the small quiet 32 year old Japanese student in one of their classes that they had together. She noticed he was isolated at the French University. He seemed awkward. He was slightly odd. He was very small. He was four foot nine. Wow. Wow. So she felt compassion. Be him being alone in a foreign city. She could empathize with so when a group of her classmates made dinner plans, she invited him along. She's a sweet baby angel. Right. They had a long conversation that night on a full range of topics. And overall for everybody,

it was a success. So soon after, he asked Renee for help translating the German poetry that he had been struggling with. So she went over to his apartment to work on it with him, go to a public place. Well, she thought they'd already hung. I know, I know, but like every university never very small. She's like this. He's pocket sized. There's no threat public place. So the first night she goes over to help him translate his German poetry. The night ends very abruptly and oddly sent her a letter saying, sorry about everything last night. Can you please come back over tonight? I really need this help. And it would I would really appreciate it. So she goes back over and that's the night of June 11. Okay. So she and she feels like she gets that this guy might be

uncomfortable, maybe uncomfortable around women or whatever. So she she's like, it's fine. She goes back over she sits down at his desk, which leaves her with her back to the room. And as she is looking over the homework that he needs help with, he walks up behind her with a gun with a silencer on it and shoots her in the back of the head. Holy shit. He immediately faints. Oh my god. When he wakes up, he has sex with her corpse and then tries to eat her because it turned out he was not a awkward four foot nine. He was four foot nine. But he was not a tiny, powerless, awkward little man. He had been planning to kill her for quite some time. Oh my god. Because he wanted to eat her. What? The man's name was Issei Sagawa and he had a lifelong

obsession with cannibalism. He was born in 1949 to wealthy parents in Kobe, Japan. He was very premature, so premature that when his father held him for the first time, he held him in the palm of his hand. Oh, gosh, that's so sad. Yeah. His strict but loving parents had another son one year later and raised them as twins because Issei was so small that he, being the older brother, looked like the younger brother. And as his brother grew up normally and fully, he was very skinny. He just like he just was tiny. And he was very, very self-conscious of it from a very early age. Aren't we all so fucking self fucking conscious of our bodies at all times? And from a very early age, I'm watching this documentary and I'm like, it would be great

to be tiny, skinny and four foot nine. Isn't that always the fucking way? We're all now, at this moment in time, just learning radical self-immolation acceptance. Excuse me. I've had two cans of fucking sparkling wine. If we could just learn to spontaneously combust ourselves into the stratosphere. Think of all the weight you would lose. Think about the universe loving you if you were just particles on fire. That's right. Okay. So, of course, so he is obsessed with the fact he repeatedly in these documentaries talks about himself being ugly, being tiny and being skinny. And also oddly, and they have, they have home movie footage in this channel for documentary of his uncle used to come to their house and they would put on a play where the

uncle played a man eating giant and two little boys would play princes that he would the giant would then grab up put into a pot and eat and cook alive and eat. And I have fucking chills. Really? That's creepy. Yeah, you had to see it. And he in the documentary when he talks about it, kind of makes his face like why, why did he do that? Wait, they're interviewing him? Yes, dude. Yes. Okay, go on. It's part of how disturbing the story is, is he is he basically becomes famous for being a sexual psychopath. How have I never heard of this? Go on. Okay. So, so he attributes that experience, but he also was he so he became obsessed with this idea of man eating giants, monsters that could eat men, human beings, the idea of eating human flesh

to the point where in first grade, he asked his teacher about the moral repercussions of eating human flesh. Imagine now imagine those chills that you would get. How old is the first grader is seven? Okay, I'm looking at my seven year old nephew. Hey, hey, anti Georgia. What's your stance on eating other people? If I wanted, I would be like, oh my God, you would you'd be shaking and be like, excuse me, I'll be back in one second. Get away from me, Micah. You'd pull a clerical starling out. Now use your phone, please. Oh my God, that was that was beautiful, Karen. Thank you. Yeah, he thought the idea of the reason he was so obsessed with it is that he thought that if he could eat other human beings, it would fill him out and make him bigger, stronger,

make him he felt like he wasn't he was only half there. And then everybody else was fully formed. Oh, man. So he got this idea and it became this obsession. If he could just consume someone else, it would fill him out and make him whole. I mean, I get, I think it's crazy and he's mentally ill, but I get the from first grade on having this obsession. Yeah, the logic of it. Right. Yes, for sure. The logic of the crazy I fucking get. Well, and I've been crazy and obsessed with a specific thing in my life many fucking times. Yeah. Well, and to the point where like when you have body dysmorphia where when you see yourself one way, you literally cannot see yourself any other way. Everyone sees that and obsesses on it when in fact, everyone's just obsessing about

themselves. Exactly. But when you also have then some kind of a psychopathy, then your that obsession doesn't you then don't get distracted by their things. You you continue to obsess on it to the point where then you begin to fantasize about it. And so then when he moved into adolescence, the obsession and the fantasies, it they became intertwined the sexual aspect and the cannibalism became intertwined. So this is level three of psychology. This is I am pretending to know what I'm talking about to the point where I'm starting to believe it and it sounds great. Fucking great. Yeah, sounds great. It's a true victory for me tonight. Okay, so when he's 15, he actually it gets so bad, he reaches out to a psychiatrist and

explains that he is having sexual fantasies involving murder and cannibalism. And oh my god, he's also tells them that he's it's it's focused on Western they they keep referring to them as Western women, but it's basically white women, tall, blonde, kind of Marilyn Monroe type women that are fully curvy and curvaceous. And that's what he's seeing is that would fill me up. That would make me whole. Got it. It's also symbolic. Once he spills the beans, he's too scared to go back. So he just never goes back again. And at one point, maybe a little later on, he also goes to his brother and confides in his brother that he wants to eat human flesh. And his brother's like, you fucking nut and never talks about it again. Isn't that great?

Because I was going to be like, well, he's so crazy for like mentally ill, he doesn't know to go get help. But then he fucking did. Like when I'm starting to obsess about a thing, I know to go to a psychologist or a psychiatrist. Right. He did that. No, he did. He actually and he was young too, which is really hard. It's hard when you're younger to be like, I'm gonna get some professional in probably in the Japanese culture too. Yes, that can't be a big thing, right? I don't know, but I'm saying yes, very authoritative. I bet someone will very nicely correct us. Hopefully. Okay, so it's not until he's 23 and he's still living at his parents' house that he finally acts on these obsessions. A young German woman moved into the neighborhood

and he sees her and he's like, this is my chance. He starts obsessing on her and he's obsessed with biting her butt. Okay. So one night he breaks into her apartment. He only has an umbrella in his hand. He's wearing a Frankenstein mask. But remember, he's four foot nine. That's scary. It's horrifying. He goes into her room. She's asleep and he's standing there trying to figure out what to do first. And his knee touches her leg and he wakes her up. So a tiny Frankenstein with an umbrella is standing next to her butt. She starts screaming. He freaks out. He goes to run away. She grabs him by the hands and wrestles him to the ground and calls the cops. So the cops come, they arrest him on attempted rape charges. But then Issei's father is very rich and

has a big influential, fancy job. So the father pays off this German woman to drop the charges. So she takes the money and she's like, see you later alligator. And nothing else happens. Except for they send him to a psychiatrist again. But like this time now, the whole family knows. He goes to the psychiatrist. The psychiatrist gets downloaded and all the shit that's going on with him. And the psychiatrist comes back and tells him or his parents or whatever that he is a sexual psychopath and extremely dangerous. They're like, thanks a million and they do nothing. Later days. So five years later in 1977, Issei moves to Paris to pursue his PhD in comparative literature at the Sorbonne. I mean, I didn't graduate. I didn't finish community college.

And I'm not a sexual sadist. That's both of those things are true. Two truths and a lie. Let's hear that lie. That's crazy. Well, also, he's clearly very high level. Yeah, yeah, intelligence. So there's there's so much going on. Okay, so I don't feel bad. Yeah, don't feel bad at all. He's surrounded by now he's in Paris, though, surrounded by the object of his the objects of his sadistic, murderous fantasies. Everywhere he looks, there's these big huge comparatively Western women that he has been spending all of his young life in Japan obsessing over and thinking about and rarely seeing now he's fucking smack dab in the middle. Oh, shit. So in 1979, he basically is he's of course still thinking about

it. He's like he wants to do it. He knows he has to. It's his obsession. Then in 1979, the American actress Jean Sieberg commits suicide in her car in Paris, and it's right near his apartment. And so he sees that as a sign that now it's time to start committing the basically to make his fantasy. Yeah. So throughout that year, he started hiring sex workers to come back to his apartment, but he never had the guts to do anything out of control in any way that anybody reported or anybody knew about. But then one day, Rene Hardvelt walks into his classroom, and he is immediately obsessed with her. He thinks she's beautiful. He starts drawing pictures of her. And he begins to plan her murder so that he can eat her. Oh,

my God. So, so we skip back to the night where he shoots her, he faints. Poor babe. When he comes to rapes the corpse, then he tries to tear her flesh with his teeth. Oh, my God. But it doesn't work. He can't do it. So he leaves and he goes and buys a butcher knife. He comes back to his apartment. And over the next two days, he cuts her up and cooks some of her flesh. Oh, my God. And then on the night of June 12, like basically two days later, he takes a cab, carrying two big, huge, heavy suitcases to a place called Bois de Boulogne. I think that sounded gorgeous. Thank you. It sounded right. Boulogne. It's a public park, okay, in Paris that has a big lake. And his plan, it's 8.30 at night, his plan, he's going to take these two suitcases that have her

cut up body parts in them and put them into the lake. No, honey. But he doesn't know that there's a restaurant, lakeside. Oh, shit. So as he is struggling with two huge heavy suitcases trying to pull them down to the lake, all these people witness him. They're like eating their fucking chicken Diane. And they're like, look at their French onion soup. Tiny Japanese man. And their baguettes. That's right. And they see a tiny Japanese man struggling, struggling, struggling with two suitcases to the point where he struggles for so long to get them down into the water. He finally gives up near the edge of the lake, lays down on a bench and goes to sleep. When he wakes up, he sees an old man opening one of the suitcases. No. When the old man sees what's

inside, he starts screaming and he say gets up and calmly walks away. Holy shit. And disappears. How the fuck have I never heard of this banana story? Isn't it crazy? I've heard, I have heard like large swaths. Yeah. It's because I was waving my hand. You're like doing a paintbrush. I've swathed it, but I never knew these fucking nuts or details. So he just fucking hightails it out of there slowly, which just creeps me out. Yeah. Yeah. So they basically, all those witnesses call the police, the police. They all say, yep, we saw a cab drop this guy off. He tried to do this, whatever. They find the cab driver. The cab driver is like, yeah, I assumed I was taking him to the train station because he had these two huge suitcases and

they're like, what's his address? So they go to his address. He's walking out as the police are walking up and he just immediately confesses to everything. So they don't, he's just arrested and taken in. But then the police have to go up into his apartment and what they find up there is the grizzliest grossest scene. There's more. Yes. Because well, because he had cut up her body and so there was wrapped up body parts in his refrigerator and there's cooked body parts on plates on his kitchen table along with a plate of peas. No. Like it was like he had set up this whole dinner and he had, he had been like kind of, you know, eating, eating for days. Oh my God. So he is held in prison in Paris, but his father, his rich father, gets him a high powered

attorney. He comes in front of the judge, Judge Louis Breugier, I think, Accente Gault. And that judge declares that anybody who would prepare in advance to kill and eat someone could not be mentally sound. And so he believes that Asagawa is suffering from advanced dementia and he orders him to be confined indefinitely to the Henri Colant asylum for the criminally insane. There's no trial. So while he's in the asylum, Japanese writer Inihiko Yamota, hopefully, interviews him about these crimes and about his life and all of the they have a bunch of conversations, talk a bunch and eventually they turn all of that into a biography about Asagawa called In the Fog. And when that biography comes out in Japan, it fucking sells out nationwide.

Holy shit. What the fuck? But since no murder charge is ever brought against him in France, the French authorities end up deporting Asagawa back to Japan. And he's sent to a place called the Matsu, Matsuzawa Hospital. His father's forced to resign from his high powered job, his mother attempts suicide. So this, of course, is horrible for the family. Sure. But Issei is becoming a cult phenomenon. So when the book sells up, people are fascinated and they say that they think the theory is because Western women are just a kind of a conceptualized object over there. He became like an anti hero. Oh, my God. So it was it was like this thing of it wasn't it wasn't personal to anybody because none of these women looked like

any of them. So it was just this kind of yeah, it was just kind of the perfect objectification where people could just be fascinated by the grizzly hittiestness of the time. It was the murder of an idea, not an actual woman whose family it was mourning her. It was like he wanted to murder this idea. And with that, the media went berserk. And at one point, the the magazine, it's a French magazine called Perry Match. And it publishes previously unseen shocking photos of her of Renee's dismembered corpse. It's such a scandal. A reporter actually gets arrested for it. And a million copies of the magazine are seized by the authorities. Oh, my God. So they can go round that shit up. Can you find it online? No, I didn't look. I didn't look. I would never.

I wouldn't look either. Yeah, I would never. You would. I saw the plate of peas in one of the documentaries and I was like, I just I'm never going to get that plate of peas out of my head on that dinner table. Sure. That's plenty for me. But it was that it was that kind of insane media frenzy that kind of was making making it popular and so well known. Well, then on August 12 1986, Saagawa is set free from the mental hospital that he was sent to due to lack of evidence against him because the French authorities have all the evidence and they locked it up and lock him up in Japan. It's not. Yeah, it doesn't. So basically, he's got that he's got the juice to get him out. Shit, his family gets him out. Three years later, a man in Japan abducts

and kills four girls. He based this guy goes on a murder spree and the media goes to Saagawa and asks him to weigh in on the killer. And from there, he becomes no starts to become up like a media celebrity. He starts becoming a columnist for newspapers. He writes after in the fog, which was his first book, he writes 18 more books about himself, cannibalism, his murder, all of it. He got to be a psychopath if you can write 18 fucking books for real. I'm not like joking about writing books like that's crazy. No, and also all about himself. So like so crazy, crazy self obsession. He also appears on television shows and begins to work the lecture circuit. No. Yeah. Eventually. And this is the part where I watched the channel for documentary

and then there was another another documentary from 2007. And I think it was also a British one from channel five. But I might just be saying that because the other one is from channel four. But that also interviewed him and much older. And he started starring in porno, no, say to a masochistic porn, where he would be getting beat up, tied up, slapped around by big Western women, white women. One of the pornos that he stars in featured him having a relationship with a Dutch woman, where they actually go to like this theme park that's that's Dutch themed. So it is like beyond the bounds of good, bad taste, beyond the bounds of exploitation, like he enjoys the fact that he is he is like this disgusting celebrity for this crime.

Family. Yes. Yeah, that's what everyone, all the people, the talking heads in these documentaries, the cops. And there's a there is a really amazing professor, a professor that they talked to from Cambridge, who's like all of his books are immoral garbage. So does the judge who in France, does he get talk shit on who like was like he's just crazy. Let's send him away. It doesn't seem like it. No, none of those things really seem to be connected in any way. And he had been brought to trial in France, then maybe. But basically I'm not fucking blaming French people just that one judge or it's like you got to let other people decide if he's crazy or not. Maybe it was his theory. And there wasn't enough like psychological

evidence to argue it. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, that's I think that that was the beginning of the breakdown. Also, if his dad haven't had enough money, and this is again, just a theory of mine, I'm making up in the spot. He might have just paid that judge off. And he's just like, yeah, it's that or he would have gotten if the trial got if it had gone to trial, he would have had a fucking great attorney and would have gotten them off anyway. So it wouldn't have mattered. I mean, the whole but the whole thing is so insane and disgusting because he did it. He said he did it. The evidence he did it. He took this life and then defiled it the worst way he possibly could. And then just kind of nothing happened. So in these documentaries, he's he's telling

people about him. He's taught he loves talking about himself. You can tell laughing. And he says he he claims that he has no desire to murder anyone, but he still wants to eat a woman. So it's not the murder he tries to rationalize. Okay, but it's just the eating of the flesh. And he also you clearly he has romanticized and rationalized this idea, that whole theory of if I just eat someone, I will be whole and all that stuff is basically kind of his like calling car of like, here's why I did it. And it's almost poetic how I needed this because I'm so small and ugly poor me. Yeah, when it's like, yeah, okay, go on. In 2009, he gave a vice an interview and vice vice did a whole story about him. Which I didn't watch because after the second

documentary I watched, I was like, I've had it with this guy. Yeah. But Steven told me a super hilarious part. Do you want to tell everybody that part? Okay. So yeah, when I was reading or looking at this interview, my the part that really stuck out to me was the interviewer at some point, I think like a third of the way through, he said, I'm just going to plot ahead with these questions so I can get the fuck out of here. That's how creepy this guy is. Oh my god. Like, and at the beginning of the excuse me for living documentary, it's really beautifully and amazingly shot. He's getting a haircut. But he's just staring into the camera as someone cuts his hair. And I swear to God, he doesn't blink for like two minutes. Oh my god. It's really,

really fucking unnerving and very strange. I don't want to watch it. I want to see a photo. Yeah, you have to look at it. But but when Steven sent me that text, I was just like, holy shit, like it must he must be so much even more up his ass after because he's still alive. Yeah, he's still free. Both his parents died famous. Yes. He doesn't have any money. Like he had to pay off his parents' debts. And you know, he wasn't he was like living in whatever state run housing for a while or whatever. But but basically, he's living free. And he's kind of doing it every once and people are still talking to him about his crime. Even to this day. Oh, also, in that vice interview, I read a thing where he said he would love to be killed by a

beautiful woman or he would love to drown in female saliva. Ew. And that my friend is Japanese cannibal Issei Sagawa. What the fucking fuck is not not. Yes. There's lots of things you can watch with that guy in it talking about himself. I just want to see a photo of him, but I don't want to watch anything. Okay, we'll get you a photo. I'll email you a photo later tonight. I would love that. Okay, perfect. Oh, God. Yeah, I need a fucking hooray silkwood shower after this episode. How about we fucking hooray ourselves out of out of all those bad vibes right now? Let's do it. Okay, this is something that I found a guy that I follow on Twitter name Adam Jeskiewicz. Jeskiewicz, yeah. He tweeted this this afternoon, and I can't stop watching it. So,

apparently on the Lakers, I'm about to talk about basketball, which I know nothing about. Get ready. Okay, we're going into a totally new territory. I'm ready. I'm scared. I'm here with you. Stay with me. Let's do it. The apparently the Los Angeles Lakers heard of them. That's a team here in our city. He heard of it. They, there was a guy who last night played in the game of basketball. Okay. He spent 10 years in something called the G League. Okay. So, he basically was like a farm team is what I'm assuming for basketball, spent 10 years playing in it. And last night played his first, they brought him up to the big leagues and they, he played his first game as a Los Angeles Laker against Houston. He scored fucking 19 points. People were chanting MVP.

He just keeps hitting threes. Amazing. You have to see there is. I'm assuming those are all good things. I don't know. Yes, it's the best. Amazing. There's a one minute video that I retweeted onto my Twitter that I started watching and I couldn't stop crying. And this is what I love. Adam Jeskiewicz, who tweeted originally wrote, even if you don't enjoy basketball, this is pretty lovely. Dude fought for a decade for this moment. And when it finally happened, it was perfect. He's also a volunteer tutor to kids and seems like a genuinely good person. And in this video, his teammates are up off the bench fucking screaming. It is like one of the most inspirational, beautiful things I've ever seen. And as someone who like, you know, I've lived in Los Angeles for 24 fucking years.

I have tried to do things and given up about four different times. Oh, yeah. And to see a thing like that where this is a guy that just plugged along and then walked out on the court and nailed it. And he's third. He's in his thirties, I think. So which is, you know, for NBA player, not young, just fucking incredible. Like if you get a chance, even if you don't give a shit about sports, look it up, you will fucking love this story. It's the best. I love it. It made me so happy. You're crying right now. It's I do. I did a light cry. I just fucking really relate his name. Again, Andre Ingram. And he congratulations LA Laker Andre Ingram because the world fucking loves you right now. Suddenly we care about fucking baseball. They made us care. I have,

I too want to shout out to Instagrams that are making me happy or like social media things. One is this. I follow this fucking body positive model on Instagram name Allie Tate who posts these photos of herself that are so she's what one would call a plus size model, which means she looks like a normal woman. Right. And she posts photos of herself in beautiful clothing. She posts photos of herself in bathing suits and she has my body. She has a normal woman's body and she's so positive about it. She posts these photos where she's naked and bending over and there's roles and it's just made me look at my own body and be like that just because you have those things doesn't mean it's unattractive and it's

it's been really wonderful and she seems really sweet. So that's Allie Tate. The other one that's not body positive, but it's been making me fucking crack up and I think it's brand new. It's called honest couple. And oh, yes, that's Jake Weisman. Jake Weisman. And he takes fucking like stock photos of couples that just look like the most annoying couples you've ever seen in your life and posts the honest caption of what one of them is really thinking. And I just cannot get enough of it and I love it so much. So I think he needs to it needs to be a thing. Yeah, it's so hilarious. It's like two people. It looks like they're on a hike and they're taking a selfie of themselves. They're both smiling. Or just like stock photo underneath

that it says he hasn't made her come in two years. He made me cry three minutes after this photo was taken. It's just like or her friends are the least funny people I've ever met in my life. It's just this he was like I'm sick of these photos of like perfect couples and then you find out they broke up a week later. So it's really fucking happening. It's so hilarious. The best. He's so funny and also watch corporate on Comedy Central because he's one of the one of the stars of it. That's right. Yeah, great stand up comic. He is really funny. Oh, Matt Engelbritzen too, of course. Matt, calm down. Matt, you're tall. You're tall. You've got it. Shut up. Thanks for listening, you guys. Was this a three fucking hour episode? That was nuts.

It feels like it. It was a three can fucking sparkling wine episode. That's how you know. Georgia threw half a six pack of wine and feeling fine. Feeling myself. Feeling fine. Sink it. Georgia sink it. That's a basketball cheer. It's all full fucking circle. It comes back to fucking cheerleading. We always bring it back around for you, the listener. We love you. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Oh, Elvis. He's right there. Elvis. You want cookie? Good boy.