My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 118 - Golden State Killer Caught!

Episode Date: April 26, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the arrest of the Golden State Killer. Plus investigative journalist Billy Jensen calls in.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Fuck, they caught the fucking Golden State Killer, East Area motherfucking rapist. This is one of the fucking weirdest experiences of my life. Let's talk about last night, I'm laying in bed, I'm fucking, I've been up since 5am, I'm like, great, I already know I'm going to need a Xanax to go to sleep just for the fucking shit of it because I drank a fucking cold brew that day. Then I look at my text and immediately, and see what I've fucking been hoping to see every morning I wake up for fucking ever, you texting me and Steven, they caught the Golden State Killer.

Yes. And I fucking pop out of bed gasping, scaring their shit at events. He was like mad at me and I call you immediately. I was driving home from the Hollywood Improv, just did a show there, met some nice listeners who had come to the show. I was having a wonderful evening coming down off of that and I have to admit to you, although I was not reading and driving, I waited for a red light, but as I'm addicted to Twitter, I opened my Twitter and I'm actually going to read his name because this is the first

person who told me, which means the world to me because someone was on it and immediately was just like, did you hear this? Everyone else who's tweeted us after is loses to this guy. It is, his name's Eric and it's at era, ERA, can't see. And he wrote, they got him, question mark, Reddit is excited. So he basically came over and let me know and so at a red light, I opened this thing and it's basically just like there is an arrest and it's a 100% DNA match. You know what?

I didn't see that part yet. The thing that got me excited, like that I wasn't just like, oh, this is just another thing is when it said, when you said Reddit's excited and I'm like, well, Reddit, if Reddit's excited, that's like almost better than if fucking law enforcement is excited. Yeah. Because I feel like Reddit is set up to make people stop being excited. Right. Shut them down.

It's like, no, no, you're being, you're being rash, you're being immature, you're being too hopeful. Or you're fucking pinning it on someone that has nothing to do with it and that's fucking illegal and crazy and stop it. Exactly. Yes. So, and what happened, you know, then I lay down and I start fucking Googling and redditing and Twittering for fucking hours and at first it was, they had the name of some dude that

it wasn't. I'm not obviously going to say his name, but he was also law enforcement. You know, it could have been him, all this shit and so I did all this fucking research on him, then it wasn't him. So I'm like, they put photos up, they put, it's just. Of the wrong guy? Of the wrong guy, but at the same time, this guy, this guy's a piece of shit too, so, I mean, whatever.

But it's the wrong guy. I think it's like, that's the thing that we were talking about before. It's just this, all I can think about is the beginning of making a murderer where they are having that exact same kind of press conference and was it Ken Kratz or whoever that guy is, it's just like, we got him. This is it. And it's just that thing where as we watch stuff like this, then we're just like, this is it.

Joseph DiAngelo is the police, police allege, Joseph DiAngelo is the fucking golden state killer. And then we want that to be true so bad that it's just like, and now we're going all the way down this road. And that's all I think about is these days, how many fucking documentaries have you seen or then they pull it all apart? Right. But I know, yes, the 100% DNA match and the fact that I think that.

Yeah, that does make a huge difference. Because also because that's been happening, that happens so much, and what a huge high profile case this is with so many different jurisdictions, I don't think these people had to do so much fact checking. They did not arrest this fucking guy until they were sure, otherwise it would have looked really bad. It would have made them look incompetent. It would have been a ton of fucking jurisdictions that it would look bad, not just, you know,

the fucking Manitoba County or whatever the fuck. Manitoba County. Oh, my God, okay, if you could get one question answered right now. Well, let me, can I just also say this, never in my life have experienced this from the moment you and I started talking last night, I had like the Georgia. So I text that then fucking thank God, Georgia calls me because I was like, if I have to be by myself with this information, I'm going to lose my mind. Yeah.

And Vince gave zero shit. He fucking fell asleep immediately. Well, that'd be like him going like, oh my God, mankind is going to start in a movie or something. You're like, I want to care. Well, I just said to him as he was leaving, you know, we were supposed to go to breakfast. We talked about it. And then I was like, I'm sorry.

This is my WrestleMania. Yeah. He's like, I know. I know. He understands. He lives it. He lives it. He knows it.

He made us coffee and he made us like a spread as if we were like reporters. But I have to say, I've never had the experience of when we started talking about the reality of it, getting waves of chills and just continuing to get waves of chills. I was laying down. It was four hours later. I was still getting chills and it's like, it's a feeling that I think everybody wanted to have and everyone thought they would never get to have, right? Everybody that cares about this case or has been paying attention.

My favorite. I just, I mean, read it. I love read it. And last night it was like, it was my like companion and well, the couple of the things that I thought were so funny. One person put up a fuck I should find them. Can you find them put up a thing of that, that there's going to be a fucking sale on yearbooks from 1972 and 1973 and Sacramento today.

And also that all the people who have a fucking lifetime subscription to classmates.com are really bummed right now. So all the people who were like looking through the yearbooks, they were like, should I do it a one year, a three year or a lifetime, right? And then they're just like, why the lifetime, but you never know, there's somebody else could come up. Yeah. Yeah.

That's true. Oh, it's so crazy. And then when we were talking about it on like, we were basically texting on two different threads. You text me. We were texting on two different threads because Stephen hadn't responded yet, which is so unlike Stephen. What were you doing?

I was the first responder at all times. It's the first. When I started. He starts everything. And I thought it was from Stephen because he's the one who's always like updating us on these crazy shit. Yes. I was at Margaritaville.

You are so fired, it's unbelievable how fired you are. You're beyond fired. Leave the equipment. Get the fuck out of here. Show us how to use it. Right. Get the fuck out. Take care of business.

Yeah. Please get the fuck out. And I just want to say how Stephen's mustache. Did you see me keep trying to videotape you a little bit? You caught me. I don't. There's no like casual way. It's my like anxious thing.

I know it is. I was just like nervous like holding on to it the whole time. I just wanted to be like this is how it is. I had my fist in my mouth. Yeah. I had my nails in my mouth. I just had to then go full fist like an infant. I mean, we were leaning closer and closer into the computer as it was going on.

Right. Okay. But also I have to say it just says like the casual almost like you know as this infotainment. That was such an unsatisfying press conference because we know he's in custody. We now know his name. We know that. I mean that fucking mugshot is so uncool. It is so unnerving and upsetting looking.

But he did have some scrapes on his forehead, which it looks like the cops may have accidentally thrown an elbow. Well, here's what I took away from them explaining how they detained him that they were suspecting he was going to try to kill himself, which I know is something that happens a lot like with older suspects when they finally find them and they get that knock at the door and the fucking they shoot themselves. Yes. So it sounds like maybe they had it.

I mean, I'm just obviously conjecture getting out of my mind, but they had to like fucking tackle him to get a gun away from him. Yes. Or they had some kind of like they were so prepared because they had gone through so much heartbreak that they already had a guy coming in his back door. You know what I mean? Something like that where it's just like they I would first of all, I'm so mad Paul Holes didn't get to talk during that.

You have basically Paul Holes appearance fees way too high at this point for standing in the background to keep press conference. He was like the the he was the wallpaper of that entire press conference was like step forward cutout. It's not even him. He like sold them the cutout for $500 for a one time use. And now it's going around to all the craft stores in the area because all the people that knit and do hand stitching and all that are like yes, Paul's.

But I wish yes, I wish we could have just gotten the the reason those reporters kept asking the same question over and over and then Anne Marie started to get a little pissy because Anne Marie is like I control the information. You can tell she's just like I don't like this fact that there's data miners that know more than I do. Totally. Clearly. But this the idea that we just want someone just walk us through real quick the day before

up to the arrest. Right. How, what, where? Right. Or even like, I mean, of course what I'm dying to know is what, you know, it's the thing of what led them to suspect this person enough to collect his DNA. Was it a tip? Was it, you know, was he on the list?

I mean, it had to have been a tip, right? It had to have been otherwise. Why would they have, I mean, he fits the profile is what's obvious about it. He's 72 years old. So he's in the right timeframe. He was, he had access to police scanners, which is something they always suspected because he was a cop, which wasn't something that they had, you know, didn't seem like something they were looking into.

But no, but that many had access to, you know, there's like little things there. He, uh, that would have made him a suspect, but I bet there were thousands of those people. For sure. So there had to be at least one or two tips of like, and then we look at the photos side by side of him at that time, the Navy photo of him and the, and the fucking a couple of the sketches are like, dead on, dead on that hairline is a super match. That's the thing I love to do. Yes.

That's right. The lips, the nose in that one picture where his eyes are real sunken in. It's like we were just talking about how and what we should put this up on Instagram, but the photo that is the most realistic and creepy that always gave me chills looks the least like him. Yes. And the one that's kind of like, Oh, someone didn't know how to fucking draw looks the most like him.

So I apologize to whoever fucking drew that piece of shit. But see, don't you think that that's, I mean, obviously, but this part of what all of this is, is we've been in a panic, making things up this whole time of like, here's my theory. Here's what I think, you know, this thing obviously leads to this thing. You can, how can you not think it's this person because look at this, he did these things. My obsession is like, I was like secretly in my mind, but never had the guts to say it was like, he's some kind of a gymnast, he works at Cirque du Soleil. That thing of him like jumping over fences and shit is so like, not, not the average

person can do that. Well, I wonder if as we talked about in the episode where we did the skylight books with Patton and everyone where he, they had that tip come in that someone came into a hospital with a broken shoulder and they had checked because they realized that jumping over a fence, he wouldn't have known that there was an incline. Oh, right. Right. So they went in and they asked hospitals around like, did you get some character coming in

and there was a dude coming in who fucking had a broken shoulder as soon as they were on to him and realized that his idea was fake, he fucking bolted. And then the East area rapist was fucking out of commission for a couple months. Yes. He was fucking probably recovering, you know, allegedly recovering from his shoulder injury. Yes. Because you can't, you can't do all the things, the horrible things that he would be doing with just one arm.

You can't control two people, tie them up, all that shit. I mean, so maybe that's the fucking thing that they were like, this dude has a show old shoulder injury. I don't know. I mean, it had to be someone who put it together. And now, so let's in the, I think it's both of our favorite piece of information that we have learned that everyone else has learned online. Yes.

And this, the reason that Joseph to Angelo, who the police suspect is the golden stick killer, right? The reason he was kicked off the police force in Auburn is because he was caught shoplifting, dog repellent and a hammer at a pay and save and fucking citrus heights. Tell me where that is. What's the place? What are these places like to the rule because you're from there with the rules, fuck. So it's, it's actually not.

So Auburn is role as fuck. Okay. And it's very, my college roommate lived there is from there and it's very like, it's not suburbs. It's like, no, it's like, horse people, farm people. It's also like rolling hills with lots of coverage of oak trees. Okay. Is it like beautiful and people have expensive houses there?

Yes. It's like, expensive, secluded houses or like cheaper kind of big, I mean, I think it's a full range because you can live there cheaply, right? But also on a nice, like an acre of land that looks amazing. Like everything comes with two oak trees type of place is the feel. Okay. Also, remember that story I told you about the girl my roommate was friends with who got up in the middle of the night and there was a man in the hallway.

So she's just started making that noise. Yes. That's Auburn. You should, that happened in Auburn. Jesus. So it's a little bit like it's, it's, it's a sketchy as a country area can be. Right. So you think it's safe, but it's so secluded that it's, it's farm safe.

So like that's shotgun level safe. If you use frame, your neighbors aren't going to hear you. If they hear you, they won't be there for seven minutes. Right. And they also will mind their own business. Yeah. So you can scream if there's a pre-agreed screaming situation, but, uh, oh, so my point with that was, oh, just, you know, then there's, and we talked about this in the skylight

books episode, uh, discussion, him cutting that dog open. Like I now want to know when he got caught for shoplifting. It was so as a before or after, because he cut the dog. If you listen to the book, yeah, he cut a dog who came upon him while he was prowling, fucking cut the dog open dog survive, don't worry. Uh, but the, the dog repellent's interesting for two reasons because one, uh, that this fucking hound dogs who were sniffing his trail and in the book, they talk about how they lose the fucking trail at some point.

And they can't follow him and also the, um, the victim said that he had a weird smell that he couldn't place, which I have always wondered about. I got an email recently from a fucking cool dude who was like suspecting that it was a migrant worker. And then I, we were both like, maybe the fertilizer is, was a weird smell that smells familiar. Right. Something like that. Right.

And we were talking, and I were talking about if it were a migrant worker, it would be such a good hide and plan site type of job because if he was kind of like, um, you know, acting like he was, uh, say a down and out person that's just trying to blend in, like nobody's going to be like, I am suspicious of this guy. That's, it's the perfect, um, kind of society to blend into and have nobody's going to say anything about anybody. But nope, it's a fucking local dad, husband, neighbor, neighbor, which is even a better fucking way to hide, to blend in.

Right. Well, the ultimate fucking way, it can't be this old white guy in a white t-shirt with white hair because it's just an old man. It's just an old man that every once in a while yells fuck in the street, which is what the neighbors allege about the alleged golden snake killer on the, on the alleged news. We allegedly watched a minute ago. Oh my God. And then we were talking about, uh, okay.

So everyone's one of everyone's favorite clues or like conjectures is that at the, um, town hall meeting that was had about the East area rapist while it was going on, uh, that, that some, he must have been there because a man stood up and said, I don't believe that he would have, that he'd be able to break into someone's house when the husband's home. And no man would know that that happened and three months later, everyone's like a couple days later. No, three months later, that man's house got broken into. Which could have been a coincidence.

We don't really know. But the, and they were attacked. Right. They were attacked and the husband got tied up and I mean, just horrible. So God was, he was a cop, you know, was, he would be so much less suspicious to be there. Like when we're looking in the, at the photo of who's in the crowd, we're not looking at the cops, the people in uniform. I would fucking glance right over them.

Yes. Especially like if he had the, the cop thing, and it would be interesting to be able to figure out when that, when the news conference was or whatever they called it, the town meeting. Town hall meeting. Thank you. And cause he, they said he was an Auburn cop from 76 to 79. Right. So he did that lie in that timeframe.

And then he could have even been standing in the front. He could have had his uniform on. He could have on stage fucking with a bunch of cops. Which is the thing that, so we were all texting with Dillie Jensen last night who, who helped finish Michelle McNamara's book and he's also a crime reporter himself. And we were talking about all of this where it's just like, I just, we were just saying, he said himself, I'm afraid this is a dream. I'm afraid this is a dream because it's all becoming so cinematically like it's so heightened

that it's a cop hiding in plain sight. It's just everything about this is, is as surreal as it can be. And then, you know, on Reddit, they're talking about like, well, why would a cop steal? But someone was like, it makes sense as someone who likes a thrill. And the East area rapist, it almost was like he got off on almost getting caught because he did a lot of fucking creepy weird things that were over the top. Dangerous. Dangerous.

Yeah. You know, and so someone having a getting, needing to get off on like just stealing a quick thing. That would make sense. That fucking kleptomania thrill that you get. But also because he was a cop, I bet you he had seen things where people, they found the receipt for something and traced it back and these are, they only make these kinds of hammers and carry them at this place.

So he's like, there will be no trace of any of this stuff because he left stuff behind a lot. Yeah. And so. So, but almost like, why would he do that unless he did it on purpose? Yeah. Because like he's saying, you can't catch me or you can't trace this to anywhere because I fucking stole it.

Yeah. There's you. I know he's working on like fucking nine different levels. I wonder if the hammer like had the name of the store on it the way they, some of them do. And it's like, he was going to leave it behind to be like, I was even at this store and you don't know who I am. Right.

Because I didn't, I didn't interact with a sales girl or whatever. Yeah. Because then it would lead people there and then dead ends. Because then this girl Sally would be like, well, I sold a hammer to this cop dude that I know. Dead end. Doesn't matter. Nope.

Wouldn't happen. Yeah. No trace. It's beyond. They have to make sure he doesn't kill himself. They have to get him to talk. This is the part that gave me the most fucking chills that anything ever has. There's in Michelle's book and it's known that sometimes he would start crying in the

middle and say, I'm sorry, mommy or fuck you, mommy and like kind of lose it. And a lot of people were wondering, you know, was that just him? Is that like a red herring? Is he trying to throw them off and they can think he's crazy, something like that. Okay. And this guy, the fucking amazing sluice on Reddit did all this fucking sleuthing. This guy, Joseph fucking D'Angelo, when he was younger was engaged. They found the engagement fucking article to a woman named Bonnie.

Bonnie married someone else. He married someone else. And that was in 1976. And one of the women who was sexually assaulted insisted that no, he laid down and said, fuck you, Bonnie. I remember that. I remember not fuck you, mommy. Wow.

So. Yeah. I remember reading the fuck you Bonnie thing. So is that. Recently. And this dude was fucking engaged to a woman named Bonnie and the engagement got broken off somehow. And was that the piece that made the fine, the final thing go click?

Like, right? Could just uncovering that old, an old engagement that, that shit doesn't get recorded by the county. No, only weddings do. Like, right? How would you know that? Unless suddenly Bonnie is like, is Bonnie the one who's like, you need to look at my fucking ex?

He was. I broke off my engagement with him for whatever fucking reason. For this reason. He liked to eat fucking dog repellent. I don't know. Wait. What? That was the other one.

Um, there was another one that was fucking great. Oh, is it? Oh, Jesus Christ. I'm like, it's so, uh, shaking. It's like a million. It's almost like the feeling is supposed to be that like the, um, homeland, red, strange, boring board. It's almost like now we're done with that, but actually a brand new one is starting.

It's, there's even more now. There's even more of those red fucking things. I want to know like what connection he, we still don't know what connection he had to the other cities. There's always been this guess of like, maybe, well, there was the, um, city planner, maybe he worked for an architecture firm, right? So what's the thing about this company he worked for? Billy Jensen was telling us about it too.

So there was, um, an article that they found, or it looked like it was something out of an old yearbook. So this is like the yearbook, uh, data. And it said that he, I think it might have been his, his, his little thing. They used to write a little chunk under instead of like a yearbook being what it was in and what Instagram you play. So he worked for a place called Sierra Hoist and Hall or some shit like that. I have the name in here, but essentially I was, I said to Billy, like, maybe that's

the, cause they always thought he either had construction connections or he was in a class at learning how to be an architecture or like a landscape designer. And that's because of the homework, uh, fucking evidence, which is like my favorite fucking evidence in the world. It's so creepy. And on the back of it, this is from your spinoff podcast, my favorite evidence. Oh, I didn't tell you read evidence in a fucking monotone voice where he writes punishment on the back.

Yes. That point, that part in fucking, I'll be gone in the dark is chilling. Okay. Go on. It's so scary. It's just, there are things on that, uh, that company, he was a diver, which, you know, divers have like nuts bodies, like, like you have to be fit, like crazy and humongous calves, right?

Swimmer divers, they have to stand on their toes on a diving board. Their calves are, and that means he was a good swimmer probably too, which is like calves for days. Yeah. So wait, tell me more about the, the, the company that, what do they do? I don't know. I have no idea. I don't know that it, the thing that he sent us, it's, it's Sierra Hoist and Crane.

So it's basically if you have anything that you need pulled up by a crane, I thought those were last names or pulled out. No, no, no. It's like the two things the company, they hoist stuff and they crane shit and they, they, they will drive a crane somewhere and they will hoist the fuck out of something for you. And I was like, Mr. Hoist and Mr. Crane, I wonder, are they hired this teen? Mr. Hoist was the worst boss.

He was such a dick. You couldn't be four minutes late. Oh my God. Yeah. So it's kind of that like, it's just these things that we have no idea how they actually apply, but then your mind is going crazy of like, just for years thinking about this stuff and not having the answer and suddenly just being like, oh yeah, hoist and crane means they pulled trees out of the lots where they eventually built those, you know, you're not,

that's what my mind did of like, and I said that to Billy Jensen, he's like, possibly. I know Billy Jensen is like, so we harass Billy Jensen last night. I think I, I deleted it before I, so he, he messaged the two of us. Yes. The reason is, did you see my original message? I don't know. I don't think so. I thought I deleted it before either of you could see it because I was like, Georgia,

chill the fuck out. But I met, he doesn't even know us that well. Yes. Don't be a fucking captain. We've met him twice, I think. Yeah. I messaged him and said, the three of us and said, Billy, please tell us anything. I pinkies where we won't tell, like I just wanted, I knew he had more information and

I just wrote pinkies where we won't say anything. And then immediately it's like, you are fucking psychotic, Georgia, and I deleted it. But he, I guess he already saw it before I deleted it. So you didn't see it. No, I did see that message. That's my message. And when I saw that message, I was like, fuck, yes. Oh, I was like, what is wrong with you?

No, I loved that you did that because also I think he wouldn't tell us anything. He couldn't tell us. And then I was like, well, what if he tells us something? It gets out through some other way and he thinks that we're the ones who fucking spilled the beans. Right. So I just, I was just like, forget it. But I guess you can't delete messages.

I didn't know that. I think you can only delete them from your own. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe it's just like, you never have to acknowledge it again for your own life. But I thought it was hilarious that you did that. And I think this is a, that special circumstance of like, it's as if we all love the Philadelphia Eagles.

Right. I've never, I've never understood sports fans. I get it now. This is it. This is the feeling of it's, you're so engaged, you've been following it for so long. You care about these people. Our team has had bad luck for fucking 40 years and everyone thinks that we're cursed and we fucking won today.

Yeah. The Super Bowl. Also those women who appeared in the case file three part series that were the victims that spoke for themselves. That they're fucking their, the woman whose mother was the victim, their sisters or family that she, they read that Ann Marie read that, that was her letter that was from Debbie because her mom was murdered and that part of that book is so fucking sad when she's like the rebellious teenage daughter and then she comes home one day and her mother's murdered.

It's so bad. And his brother speaking. Yeah. They were fucking players and we were rooting for them this whole time and they finally fucking won. And they had to like, they have had to endure that motherfucker. Mr. Harrington. No, not Mr. Harrington.

Oh, I thought you meant that in a positive way. No, no, no, no. That motherfucking bad ass motherfucking. The East area rapist and the Golden State killer, allegedly Joseph Daniels, as police have named by a hundred percent, would call them and harass them years afterwards. That's another one of the things. It's so fucked up. It's so fucked up.

That's another one of the things is there's that. We all watched the, it was the ID special. What was it called? It's not over yet until it's over. Yes. The Golden State killer. It's not over. Right.

So that's an incredible documentary. And actually one of the guys, the like arm, they keep calling the armchair detective or whatever. He's one of the guys on Reddit who was like out, like he was the one to follow. He was telling us everything. Yes, knew it all. Yeah. So he, they posted.

He was great in that special too. He was really good. Yeah, about one of the calls was recorded the going to kill you recording. Yes. And everyone tried to figure out in the, in the documentary, what was playing in the background. It sounded like people were talking. I went down that rabbit hole one night and it was, they figured out what movie it was.

No, no, it was a TV movie from the 1970s and they figured out what part of the movie it was. But now they're saying this one guy, this random fucking dude on Reddit posted. Yeah. He posted some like a police scanner chatter in the background and it was just a blip. It was just a fucking blip on Reddit and it's fucking legit. It's true. Yeah.

That's what they fucking heard because not because he had a fucking scanner because it was a fucking cop. He was a cop. I had a lot of coffee. I mean, no, no, no, it, look, this is like, this is an explosion. This is a fucking explosion. It's so, I just didn't think it was going to happen. I really didn't.

I just bought, I just bought a, what do they call it when you monitor your heart to see how fast it's beating? Was it a heart monitor? Yeah. Should we go see? Like a cuff? Yeah. Put your cuff on.

Okay. I'm going to go get it for us and we're going to see. Yeah. Let's keep you, let's keep you medically observed. No, I just, it is such a strange, no, it's funny. Let's just see how you're doing. But also we have to add the coffee element into it as well. We've all been drinking a lot of coffee.

You know what? What? I'm not going to do it. How come? Because it's weird. Blood pressure. You don't want people knowing about your blood pressure. My blood pressure cuff.

Well, try to begin with right now. Anyways, that's not what we're talking about. I'm just texting with my friend, Davis Kandari, who we all lived in Sacramento at the same time, went to, we kind of all were like dropouts that then ended up going to Sacramento, the Sac City, was the junior college there. And he and we had this group of friends, like six friends, and we jokingly called ourselves the 18th Street Hellcats, because we all lived on 18th Street, but it was sarcastic. I love it.

But then we actually started doing it for real. No, it's the best. The Hellcats. But he texted me this morning and I was like, isn't it weird? We lived there. Like this is a, this thing that, that in my, in all my ego, moniasism, I'm just like, but this is a weird thing where this is part of my history. Like I do know, I had my, like when I said to my sister today, I of course called her

in the morning and was like, they caught him, he's this, he's that, da, da, da, da. And when I said he lives in Citrus Heights, the man they arrested lives in Citrus Heights. My sister goes, oh, remember when we started to drive out to Citrus Heights when I had to do that thing for work. And like we started talking about, and it's what I've already told you, but there's this, there's a bleakness or there was in the nineties, the eighties and nineties in Sacramento. And this like these long streets that went on forever. And all it was was asphalt and mini malls and a horizon that had nothing on it.

And it, I thought I was fucking dying every day in that city. And just that idea that like it almost feels, I know it's also serving. It just almost feels like I was justified a little bit, like bad fucking vibes. Those bad vibes were real. I keep thinking about, so I'm from Irvine where a couple, like the later in the eighties where I, when I was a kid growing up there, there was a couple incidents there and murders and stuff. Ah, it's too much.

It's, it's a weird, like suddenly you're watching a movie and suddenly you walk by in the background as an eight year old. That's the feeling. It's this weird, like am I a background player in this thing? Which is just, I think that's just human, that's human nature. It's kind of be like a little bit fair enough, but it's like, well, it's the places that we thought of and that we inhabited that were sinister and dark and either we're not at all what we thought they were or we're exactly what they thought we, what they, we thought

they were if we were creepy kids. Yeah. That's right. It's like maybe we were getting a psychic feeling. Maybe it was just too much asphalt from my precious, you know, delicate system. Maybe your brain inhaled too much asphalt. Can I give a shout out really quickly to a Murderino on Twitter? Her name is Cara Stone.

It's K-U-R-R-A Lynn. She tweeted, just snuck into the press only conference for the Golden State Killer by saying I was with SSDGM Daily News, honey. And did she make fake press credentials or did she just fucking, she just like, you don't need them if you're confident. She just nailed it, she had her little hat with the word press on the ring. Oh, she says, I'm kind of freaking out because I'm wearing my Murderino shirt and everyone else is dressed very nice.

I didn't think this one through. Then let's see what she wrote. Uh, will you be lag-tweeting, blah, blah, blah. She said, I'm trying to look casual because people are staring at me. Yeah. I love her so much. Girl, she risked it all for the SSDGM News. Someone says you didn't lie though.

Yeah, that's true. You are now. Yeah. Um, then, I think that's all she wrote. She probably in fucking jail, right? County jail because she will bail her out. It was, no, we will not ever. If you do something you're on your own, Stephen will use his money that we pay him finally.

His birthday money. His birthday money. We got him, um, a U.S. bond. Bail money. First birthday. Okay, that's it. Well, it looked like they were having that obviously, that press conference like in front of the station.

So I wonder how they would have gotten it like you're not allowed in and you are allowed in. I think pretty easily. I bet she could roll on up. Like parking lot style. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I've lied by saying I'm with my community college journalism team to get into like things before.

Nice. It's not true. What else? It wasn't true that you were on the journalism team or the whole story you just told me wasn't true. No, the journalism team. I don't know. You just immediately go, that's not true.

That's not true. I've never snuck in. That's not true. I know. Howard Dean conference. No. Sorry. Were you there when he did the weird scream?

Unfortunately, I was there like two weeks before and I was like, I love this guy. Howard Dean? Howard Dean was great. And then he fucking screamed. What was I going to say? Okay. If you could get one, like how do you do it question or one, like why, why this? Why did he do this answered?

What would it be? Or like confirmation because I have this thing of like the couple that was killed, which is what he got arrested for in Sacramento because the goddamn motherfucking statute of limitations about rape ends pretty quickly. So it wouldn't matter anyways. So they got him on these murders. But so the murder, that's changing in places though, isn't it? One would hope.

I think there was one story we read where they were changing. They are. Yeah. Anyway, so Brian and Kate, Majore, they were that sweet couple who were walking their poodle and it's just like a, it's a freak thing that didn't fit the MO at all, but was for various reasons. You know, pretty sure that it was East area rapist. They encountered him somehow and he chased them down and shot them in a backyard and through

their poodle in the pool, which is creepy and weird. So maybe the poodle happened upon him and was barking. So we threw in the pool they got in our altercation or maybe Brian fucking recognized him as a fellow cop because he was an Air Force officer and so he had to kill them. This is different than this time where there was an FBI agent that chased him down. That's a different one, right? Who got, he got on a bike and then he was in a car. No, that's a different one.

That's so crazy. And that guy got shot, but didn't die, right? I don't know if you guys, I don't know that part. Okay. Yeah. It's so, because it went on so long and there's all these, there's so many of these. 50. Sexual assaults.

And there are people who know every single one of these incidents. We know like the people on Reddit are like MIT and we are essentially entertainment tonight. Absolutely. So like if you want good, the good stuff, go on to these Reddit threads because there are people that have been working on this shit for fucking eight years. And I mean, I'm wondering how, how many more are now going to be tied in that don't have DNA or he's gonna, they said, I remember seeing, he's talking. They caught this guy last night.

He's talking. Right. I wonder if he's just like, you know, because a lot of these fucking killers are actually cocky at the end of the day and they want to be like, no, no, no. That's not how it happened. And they want credit for these things that they're not getting credit for. They're being very well manipulated by detectives in the interrogation to like get them to spill. And I think in this day and age, like truly, because it's 2018, they, all those guys know

how not to do it. I'm sure they're very, very concerned about exactly how they interrogate him to get him to open and stay open. And not only that, so that's admissible in court. Exactly. They're not gonna fuck it up in any way. No, no, they're putting their best guys on this one. And I say their best ladies, guys and ladies, guys and ladies, but probably especially Paul

Hulls. If Paul Hulls came into the room, you did something wrong. He puts his hands on his hips underneath his blazer and starts explaining shit to you. You're just like, yes, may a couple Paul Hulls. I got to get this off my chest. Or he's like, Joe, what did you do? Joe, you son of a bitch. And he does some kind of secret cop thing with him and then a ring pop, his favorite

ring pop, hey, man, I brought your ring pop, the ring pop theory, no, the grape is your favorite. Oh my God. You love grape. You love grape. It's also because he's so old. To me, that was the other part of not having hope. I mean, just in terms of like, there's like, if he did all these things and he's not doing

them anymore, there's no way he's still alive. And that is a 72 year old, like my dad, Marty, my dad, Marty looks fucking great for 72. He's got a lot of time left. That guy's a fucking, this Joe guy is an old fucking piece of shit. It looks like it, something's been weighing on him. Maybe. Yeah. Over the years.

He's been stressing him out. Yeah. My dad's 78. I think he looks better than that guy. Your dad looks better than my dad. Your dad looks better than me. Keep it healthy. You got to keep it healthy.

You got to walk every day. This trick is don't have baggage hanging over your head, like being a fucking rapist and murderer. Like being like a serial rapist to a degree where I think, and also it's, I understand that Ann Marie was like, quit trying to say that a bunch of other people did this work and we didn't do it because we've been doing the work. I get that. Or like, even, I wonder if even Michelle McNamara, they, they want to say thank you

for bringing it to the public eye, but like giving her credit might even piss them off somehow a little bit. Well, some of them, it takes away from the people who do it for a living, maybe, or how many. I just wish one person had said before Michelle McNamara started writing articles, doing all the shit, writing for fucking totally different magazines, saying we need to call him the Golden State Killer. Right.

We need to collect all these things together. I'm going to interview everyone. I'm going to go to all of the scenes. I'm going to fucking, I'm going to make these cops talk to each other like my life to this. And there was an element of pressure from her that they're not going to talk about being pressured, of course, by a citizen, right, but I think that her bringing it to the media made them go, yes, we are working on it. And like, maybe that is not always a positive thing with the police and, and like data minors

and armchair experts, but at the same time, no one was fucking talking about it before. And this was a thing that like, of all the murders and rape cases in the nation, it was obscure. I mean, it was not well known. If this fucking hashtag right now is, what was it, eurons, eurons? Yeah. Eustheria rapist school. What was it?

Eustheria rapist. Original nights. Original nights. It's so it's eurons. Right. If this fucking hashtag was eurons right now, do you think you'd be half as fucking blowing up as Golden State, cash at Golden State Killer, right? Which is like the fucking, she was, they were right, a beautiful, catchy name.

Go listen to, there's the three part podcast called I'll Be Gone in the Dark that just explains with all the players how this book came to be. It's really well done. It's really quick. Listen, if you just knew to catch up, get all the info, one of them is that she, that they knew that this needed a fucking better name, you know, because it needed to reflect that he fucking terrorized the entire state in all these counties. There was no jurisdiction that was, was more important, although, you know, Sacramento

obviously is the grandfather and the original hunting ground and all that, but that all these other things happen and it had to be cohesively approached. And I do think that, and maybe that's just because that's the, that's what I like. But I think her going around and getting evidence herself and just being like, fine, I'll do it. Just copy it for me. Made everyone else go like, no, no, no, no, we got it. Yeah.

Like she wasn't going to stop. She fucking, she branded this fucking thing. She really did. And that's brilliantly. Yeah. Brilliantly branded. And then wrote about it. Oh, I know.

We talked about it so much. Orgous. It's like, it's like, um, I called my, I told my friend that it, oh, it's fact pros because it's as dry as facts can be. She then turns it into this thing where suddenly you're looking at a picture. You're not reading a sentence. Poetic. Yeah.

Words that I would never use, but fit so perfectly. I don't know what that's called. Good writing. Um, you know what I did last night? I was like, okay, finally, I'm just refreshing everything. It's the same information. It's fucking three in the morning. There's nothing new.

Uh, I took a Xanax, which is, I never do anymore and I knew I had to. Yeah. And then I fuck. You were almost up for 24 hours. I know. Yeah. Then I put in my headphones, which I always do to fall asleep. I've been listening to, uh, I needed something nice and light lately because I've been listening

to fucking, I'll be gone in the dark at night and it's been scaring the shit out of me. Yes. Been listening to fucking Douglas Adams lately, but I put on, I'll be gone in the fucking dark in my headphones and fell asleep to it. Wow. And it was awesome because it's a different story now fucking. I was not freaking out. I was not scared.

My heart was fucking happy as I listened to it and fell asleep. And as Mr. Head, is it Heatherington or Harrington Harrington, Mr. Harrington said Bruce Harrington, Bruce Harrington, the brother of one of the victims and his wife, yeah, those victims gets us for the first time in fucking 40 something years. They get to rest easy and what a, I mean, what a relief that he's not dead. Yes. What a satisfying like, like it would be great if they found him and he was dead. Glad we fucking found out.

At least found him. Exactly. That would have been totally satisfying, but this is a different thing and, and if they handle it right, which I believe in these people that they will, and they're so by the book. And they're, I mean, it was funny how crazy, uh, careful they started being, it's like, why take questions if you're not going to answer your question? Yeah.

But also how about Ann Marie getting super pissed when they're like, is it related to Mr. Cruel and she's like, uh, no, where it's just like, wait, what's the problem? Yeah. All these Australians are like, we're just waiting to hear our guys been caught too. Right. Because there are so many, there's so many, um, you know, I read the same article everybody else did, but I was surprised. I didn't know there were that many M.O.

Matches. Yeah. The eating, uh, like sticking around and eating. Yep. And surveilling for like weeks and months before hand and all that. Oh, it's so creepy. So creepy. It's very easy.

What about, what else, what else would you want to know? Um, I want to know what the connections with the other locations are obviously, especially Irvine. I already texted my dad and said, Hey, did you know an ex cop in Irvine in 1986? That's such a good idea. You're like, did you ever hang out and talk to this guy at the donut shop or maybe I didn't, that wasn't a slur against cops. It was the first place I thought of where we want to be right now.

Where would Marty hang out like a Whole Foods type of place? Yeah. Mothers. They were called mother's market back then. Cause he's a little bit of a hippie, right? Oh, he's a fucking carabiting hippie. Kidding me? Now, was Janet a hippie or was she just playing ball in the seventies?

Uh, they were just like the health food, fanatic hippies, smoking pot, hippies. Yeah. But they weren't, they were, uh, they were yuppies. Oh, okay. Yeah. They were totally yuppies. Got it. Got it.

They were, can you be a yuppie and not have money? They had the, they lived the yuppie lifestyle. I'm like, I, if you could see this written, it would be fuppies, but foe yuppies. Oh, yuppies. Foe yuppies. That's exactly right. Foe yuppies. It would still have AUX fuppies.

Uh, I mean, I can't even think of what I want to hear of those, those near-miss times. We know of the ones, but like in, cause I read that book by one of the other investigators, and he wrote a like self-published book that's that thick. It's so long and crazy, but it was basically just his firsthand experience of over and over again, getting called to these houses where the victims are sitting on the couch crying and they had this horrible thing happen to them. And it's, it's so incredible. One of the times he talks about was a time where police pulled a guy over the morning

after an attack. He had all this weird shit in his car and they let him go anyway and he got on the freeway north and basically toward Auburn. Shit. Yes. And that part of the story, it's just like they, no one knows. And that, that was like a, my thing, alleged fucking all this other legal shit. But it's like, if he was a cop and they saw him in his car, did they just go, Oh, it's

that guy. Go ahead. You're fine. Yeah. Or like when you get, when you're a cop and you get pulled over or you fucking hand, when they ask you for your license, you hand them your fucking cop ID and they're like, Oh, go ahead. Yeah.

It's over. That's not, there's no discussion. It should be fucking disrespectful. Which I wonder if he kept all this shit around him. So even if he was kicked off, the fucking dude still dressed up like him. And the prowling, maybe he wasn't prowling. Maybe he was fucking walking around dressed, well, I guess someone would have said they saw a cop dressed.

Yeah. A cop by himself would be weird. A cop car might be, no, I don't know. I would want to know also about the real estate element. That thing where there was a guy that used to show up at open houses that would be across from places or, I mean, that whole part is, I don't even know. I just want to know everything. They do.

I think we will. I hope we do. I wonder if I wish Billy would call us. Oh, you know what they were saying? I was going to ask you because they were talking, but they were trying to get at this press conference, they were just trying to get Amory and our boy Scott Jones, who I'm positive I drank with at Popeyes in the late 80s, Popeyes, the worst bar in America. He looks so familiar to me.

He's like, every guy had a crush on in Sacramento, but they were talking, they were trying to get them to answer questions about that surveillance time. How exciting is it to think about those cops where they were in the lab, they were like, it's a fucking match, now go surveil him or get the, here's the thing, we need the thing to match it. It wouldn't be a match first. Yeah. They would go to get the match.

This guy looks good. This guy looks good. There are 18 points on the 20 point chart and then two guys go sit in a car waiting. Now tell me, Georgia, you are now one of those guys or ladies or ladies because anything can happen in this day and age when we mean people, we, yeah. So you are a police person that's gotten sent to surveil this very good looking suspect for as long as it takes so that he comes out and spits on the lawn, throws his cup in the ditch. He's a literal, what do you see?

What's your dream thing of how that surveillance happened that they snuck his DNA or legally acquired? Well, I mean, I feel like it seemed so simple and the most obvious one is if he's a smoker. But the problem is, say he is a smoker and he puts a cigarette out in an ashtray. Well, there's no way to prove that that's his actual, but unless it's a brand new clean cigarette, cigarette ashtray, but you know, maybe he's a smoker and he flicks his fucking cigarette. That guy doesn't look like a fucking health nut to me.

So maybe he's a smoker. He definitely looks like a smoker and a person that drinks a huge, a big golf ball. Absolutely a big golf. So I mean, you know, they have their ways. The spitting on the ground is good, but it'd have to be like, I remember there was one case where they did the spitting on the ground, but the only way they were able to use it is because he had just rained and so the spit was sitting on top of the rain and the cement. So it wasn't like part of the ground because then it'd be like, well, this is...

They couldn't introduce all the other spit and weird shit that was there. Exactly. Exactly. Or maybe they arrested him on something else and got his DNA through that way, like, you know what I mean? Maybe they, but it like, but he probably was so careful. Yes. And there's no way that they would have been like, we got you for a stop.

You ran a stop sign. Hey, can we get your DNA, by the way? No, not that guy. Then you'll never speak to that guy again. He's going to lawyer up. Not the guy who was caught for shoplifting, a dog repellent and a hammer. And then when they said, you have to go under review for the Auburn police department said no thanks and just took being dismissed because he didn't want to even talk about it.

Okay, well, so allegedly from what Reddit has told me that he has two daughters that were born in 81 and 86. So of course they're my age-ish. I looked them up on Facebook. Are we friends? I don't think we are, but I want to know about them and did they read, I'll be gone in the dark. Did they ever say to mom and dad, hey, you guys freaking out at that time of, you know,

at that time, you guys, we lived here. Because that has happened for other killers when their children suspect them. They're family members suspect them. Yeah. Isn't that the, the happy face killers daughter is the reason like she's the article was, she wrote that article recently. What's it called? Like, I don't know, but she did have a TV show for a little while where she would go

and meet other, like she interviewed BTK's wife, you know, she would go and talk to families. And I would say this too. Yeah. Like nobody should be in any way contacted, obviously, but like, we know that there's all this weird access these days for people. Yeah. It would be living hell to be related to this person today. You know, they, they've already tracked down the Yelp review of what they're assuming is

assuming is his wife's business. No. And there's some like really negative Yelp review that what a fucking psycho she is. Oh, no. But it's like, who knows where she is, what's going on, who wrote this review. If it's even her actual business, if it's even actually his wife. But the article is called the struggle to find my struggle to find peace as the daughter of a serial killer on Huffington Post, which I keep meaning to read.

Oh, that's for a smiley face killer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. What about you? What is your, your, um, you're sitting in the interrogation room with him.

You have one fucking shot. What? What, what, uh, what, what, uh, tactic would you take? I mean, I don't, I couldn't do it. I find like these criminals so abhorrent. Like I just don't even want to be anywhere in near the building. But I would want Paul, if I could be inside Paul Holes or like just watch as what he did what I would say to her.

You can have your DNA inside. You can see an inside of you, right? Are you being dirty about Paul Holes? Yeah. If you could be, if you could be surrounded with your heart and spirit and smells and tastes with Paul, inside Paul Holes, if I could just surveil Paul Holes, this is, we can't keep doing this, but okay. Interrogate Stephen.

Like he's the killer. I can't. This improv is so weird. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Just interrogate Stephen. I just, okay. So you're saying you were at Margaritaville, but you don't seem hungover at all today or

that you have sugar poisoning from, what kind of Margarita did you get? Yeah. I got the spicy, the hot, hot, hot and I'm very hungover. Oh, you're pulling it off really nicely, Stephen. Stephen. Is that that glow about you? It's that 31-year-old about him that you're not hungover yet. Oh, that's right.

You're the fucking son of a son. Stephen, there's bacon and fucking bagels right here. Stephen throws up on all the equipment. Go throw up on it. Oh. Wait. Did you press play? Did you remember to press play?

You drank Margaritas that were spicy. I love spicy Margaritas. It has like a jalapenos in it and stuff. Yes, the best with salt. Yeah. Oh, the best. I've such an ulcer. Oh, you're old.

You're old, not you're old, but you're not. It's too late. You already said it and it's recorded. You are an old drinker, meaning like you weren't around. You just did it again. I did. You're a fucking old drinker. I know.

Oh, I know. You missed the period of like good drinks. 100%. No, I burned out on like Bartles and James. Right. I got a stomach from wine coolers. Yeah. Yeah.

That's how bad it was. You didn't get a drink fucking classy shit. No, the mixology was far off. No one had a fucking curly ass mustache when I was in bars. It was all free popcorn and like fucking Miller light and a small glass. It was dark shit. And it was in Sacramento. And smoking allowed.

And smoke. Please smoke. Waitress is handing you lit cigarettes. That never happened. But yeah. No, it was like it was like it was 100 years ago. Yeah. And I was like, all of those times they were like, here, become an alcoholic.

It's so easy. We want to we want to make it happen as in, but when it's like nowadays or like here, every drink is 14 fucking dollars. So you can only be an alcohol. But if you're if you're rich as fuck. And if you come anywhere near us with a cigarette, we're gonna murder you. Right. You it's like, you have to be some kind of a connoisseur these days to be an alcoholic,

which I just don't have the energy for. And you see an alcoholic and you're like, oh, that guy must be rich. Yes. Cause you're buying drinks that have those huge ice cubes in them that are like designer ice cubes. And they measure everything. So like you're not, it's like an ounce and a half of alcohol. You're like, it doesn't matter.

I'm just going to swallow it really fast. Like I'm giving my dog a treat where she, I look at George and go, please just chew this twice. Like, please. And she just goes, like, I'll give her a leftover steak from like a dinner we were at. And I hold it out and she swallows. She inhales it. She doesn't even taste it.

I'm like bite it twice. You'll love the taste. It tastes better. Elvis does that too. She sometimes just swallows them all. Yeah. Fucking alligators. Ah.

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And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people

led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Yeah, a couple people had the great idea that this needs to be an MFM. Do you need a ride crossover? Be so... Chris Fairbanks is just driving us to fucking Sacramento. You know, we could take the entire drive up to Sacramento to explain to Chris Fairbanks

what the entire case is and what's happening and he'd be like, um, I never heard of this before. And I don't care. And I still don't care. I'm not interested. I also would just like to say this really quick. I know that Georgia posted our text thread where I talked shit about Sacramento and I just want people to know lots of people texting and saying, it's not like that anymore.

Please come. You're going to love it. Blah, blah, blah. I hear you. I know it. And... Is that him? I don't know.

Hold on. Oh, is it okay? Is it okay that we're recording our podcast? Yeah. Yes, I do want to be honest. I'm good, you guys. I'm getting consent. Yeah.

What do you say? Yep. We're seeing we're being real official. We're trying to be real. I'm not. Yeah. We've taken your first step into a larger world. We've said the word alleged 15 fucking times in the past few minutes.

The police, the man the police say is the golden stick killer. How are you? You must be so thrilled. Why? What's going on today? Yeah. Yeah, no, it's been a, it's been definitely a crazy day. Congratulations.

I mean, how long have you been, would you, oh shit, Steven, give me that charger. How long would you say you've been working on this case altogether? For me, not that long. It was only really after she died that after Michelle died is when I started working on it. I knew about it because I was friends with her and I constantly would talk to her about it. A lot, but it was really only when she died that I started getting into it.

Because you are professionally, you are a crime reporter anyway. I mean, that's your whole, this is your whole area. Correct. Yeah. I'm an investigative journalist. Yeah. So, so basically you just jumped in when you were needed. Yeah.

When she, when she passed my first thought was of the golden stick killer. It wasn't, you know, I knew other people would be thinking of Alice and thinking of Pat. And I was just like, well, did this guy win? Right. Yeah. And then it was about the book and it was, what can we do? I will do anything I can to make sure that this book comes out because I want someone to do that for me because I know how much you worked on it, you know, hours and hours

and hours of working on it. Yeah. So that's, that's what I, that's what I made sure of. And did you watch this press conference they just gave? I did. What'd you think? I don't necessarily know if I want to talk exactly about what I thought about it. Okay.

I think a lot of, it was very political. Yeah. Yeah. I think they were definitely, the DAs were definitely all there and they were covering all their bases. Bases or asses? You know, and I would have liked to have seen the guys that were in the trenches. Yeah.

Where they really worked on this case, where was, where was Paul Hulls and Ken Clark and yeah, you know, Larry Pool or, or, you know, Crompton or Shelby or Erica, you know, those people that really worked it on a day to day basis that really took the stuff home. I mean, a lot of them did get mentioned, but this was very much a political thing. They didn't tell us much. The two things that we did here, one of them that they kind of buried a little bit and the press didn't exactly know to follow up on it is that they confirmed that he was the Veselio Ranzacker.

Right. They just like glazed over it. Yeah. The press didn't realize to, you know, they were more interested in whether he was the guy from Australia because they obviously all Google gold state killer. That was the first thing that came up in Google news. Right. So.

What about? There was that, and also the fact that he was probably, I would put money on the fact via DNA, familial DNA. Oh, really? Yeah. It was from what they were saying was that, you know, they were led, the words that they were using was that they were led to a certain area and that they had to eliminate people, which sounds like they got a last name or they got somebody that had enough characteristics

and enough of the markers from that DNA of the killer. And then they were able to go through and then the detective work that you love the detective work that they were doing was really just saying, that's not the guy. That's not the guy eliminating people over and over and over again. And then finally getting into the guy they thought it was. And then they, you know, they remarked that they had to wait for him. You know, they watched his activities or lack thereof, which meant that he wasn't leaving the house.

They were telling that he just was kind of a couch potato and he was kind of sitting there and they were waiting for him to leave the house so they can collect DNA. So they very well might have collected that DNA what they were calling discarded DNA off of, you know, the way they did it with the grip sleeper was off of a piece of pizza. Yes, that's right. Or like collecting his trash, like do a trash collection. But you don't really, they probably did it someplace else because trash you never know what it would be and it gets a little messy for lack of a better term.

Well, you know, that's what we were talking about is we, our theory is that these cops, whatever they did, they did it so carefully and so exactly. And so by the book to make sure that whatever they did couldn't be like that would hold up entirely. I mean, that's a safe assumption, right? I think so. Yeah. I mean, they did go very fast, but you know, when this was all breaking into in the morning,

I, you know, I was looking at it and I had just gotten a text from somebody saying, hey, there's a press conference tomorrow. What's that about? And then just started digging and calling people or texting people and emailing people. And once I talked to one of the victims families and they said that somebody did contact them higher up in Sacramento contacted them and said, there is a suspect in custody. Then I knew, you know, to talk about it and start talking about on Twitter and everything. Yes.

And that's the one that gave me chills when you talked about that. Because to me, that's so real. Like they wouldn't be leading people on if they didn't think they had their guy. It seems to me that family is not going to want to wake up and they're not going to want them to wake up in the morning. They're not going to tell the family. Right. That would be ridiculously cruel.

Yes. And also one of the things that I was, what I was concerned about is that well, if it's, if they have somebody in custody, maybe it's, it's like the majority murder, which is just two, which there wasn't DNA involved in. And that potentially could not have been the East area rapist. But we all think it was. We consider that as part of the, you know, in the canon of the murders. But, you know, once they told the family member that I talked to, and then I got a confirmation

that from another law enforcement source, I was like, all right, this is, this is real. We can run with it. Yes. It's so cool. And was that a thing you deal with sometimes where you suspect things or things start coming down the pipe, but you have to wait for those certain moments to, to actually run with it? Like, do you know all those? Oh, yeah.

The internet? Not so much, you know, I don't do it as much as I used to when I worked in newspapers. So when you're working in newspapers, you always had to get it, obviously get two confirmations. You can't just run with one confirmation. And that's always a, you know, you're seeing less and less of that now. Right. Yeah. You have to do that.

Otherwise you're just running. You know, you're, you're potentially running something that is not real. Yeah. That's the worst thing you can do as a journalist, other than completely making something up. Is there, is there a question or like a fact you're really looking forward to having confirmed or answered or anything like that, that you're just excited about or already? Yeah. You know, there's a lot of them that are the sort of parlor game questions.

Like, was that your homework? Yeah. Yeah, we've already. Yeah. And was that your dog? Was, you know, that, those kind of things. Yeah. But I really want to know what other victims there were.

Yeah. I'm sure he had other victims, particularly sexual assault victims. And that's one of the things that I taught was just on the phone with Paul Haynes. The kid. Or the researcher from the book. Yeah. And I talked about, and I said, you know, go, you know, if you're, if you're bored tonight, you know, go and start looking up the places that he was.

Let's start building a timeline on this guy and start seeing reports of sexual assaults because they didn't take, you know, they didn't take rape kits all the time in sexual assaults. And this guy might have gone here or there on a summer camp was who knows what he was doing at the time. Yeah. Yeah. With all the moving around. Yeah.

Well, it looks like he really did stick around and in the golden state really was the golden state killer. Jesus. He fucking stayed in citrus heights. I mean, like, it's so great. He stayed in the right in the center of the, of the bulls, the bullseye of the fucking dart board. Yeah.

How cocky of him. I mean. Yeah. Well, he was comfortable. Yeah. He was comfortable there. Yeah. I think that's one of the main reasons why he would do what he did and why he would only

write certain neighborhoods because he came, he became comfortable in those neighborhoods. Yeah. Are there any pieces right now? Like for me, there's a million that you're like, oh, that makes sense. Like any of those little answers that are that little questions that are being answered now that, you know, that he's either a cop or he's local or he stayed there or he's still alive. The cop, the cop thing.

I always thought that he had a scanner. Right. Yeah. Because of the way that he knew where the patrols were when they started amping up the patrols and he would attack at other locations. I thought he had a scanner. I didn't think he had the scanner. I didn't think he had a police scanner because he was an actual policeman.

Yeah. That's going to be the other shoe to drop in terms of it's really going to be up to local media. Somebody at the SACB to figure out what he was doing as a police officer. Why? I mean, think about this and this is think about how big of a red flag this is. You're a cop. You get arrested for shopping.

Yeah. When you get accused and you weren't arrested, you get accused for shoplifting, dog repellent and a hammer. Yeah. And they say, all right, we're going to do disciplinary hearing and everything like that. And no police union comes to your aid and you don't fight it. Yeah.

You just said, all right, I'm done. I'm done. You never see that happening. That should have been a red flag to say, why does he not want people looking into his background? Do you know what year that happened, the shoplifting and the disciplinary hearing? It was the 70s. I think it was.

Oh, look, obviously probably 79, right? If that was the year he was out of the Auburn movies. Yeah, I think so. Maybe 70. I'm not sure. Yeah. What about, um, I mean, I wonder if that disciplinary thing they were like, you have all these other points against you, we'll have someone look into it or you can just quietly resign

and we won't look into it. Honestly, I think that could be something there. And I think it was, you know, they didn't because it was so political. The guys on the ground, the boots on the ground, the real detectives, they would say, oh my God, this was, this was one of ours or it was somebody that was like us and they would be upset and want to know it. The political people weren't going to mention it. They didn't really mention it.

You don't really hear about it that this was a former cop. How many times was he potentially caught while he was doing his patrols, meaning his patrols as night time patrols, his East area rapist patrols and clashed a batch. Yes, exactly. You know, was he potentially involved when he was in Vesalia and he apparently was a police officer at Exeter, which was about 10 miles or 11 miles from Vesalia. Was he involved in any of the investigations? I mean, these are all the, this is the other shoe that's going to drop in terms of who

could have stopped him when I'm, I'm interested more in what other crimes he might have convicted and getting answered, he might have committed, excuse me, and getting answers from those. But the other thing is going to be like, you know, could we have caught him and, you know, was it a good old boys never obviously if he was a cop, he knew Cop Lengo, he knew names of other people. So if somebody pulled him over or if somebody said, what are you doing in this neighborhood? He could drop names. He could drop Lengo.

He could just say, I'm doing this or this and I am sure that that happened a couple times. Yeah, absolutely. There was no way that it didn't, you know, he was doing everything he could to survive and that would have been in one of his, one of his tricks. Totally. One of the things I noticed mentioned in Reddit of like why it was weird in the beginning is that he, he's a little older than what was originally thought of him was calling

him a teenager. Do you think that there's probably, was there a, do you think there was a trigger that made him start in his late twenties, early thirties, which is pretty old to start these things? Or do you think there's stuff that goes way far back that we're going to find out about him that he was? I think we're going to find out about something, but not at that scope. And obviously he, he didn't know that DNA, so he was leaving his deposits everywhere. So there's going to be, there's going to be little things here and there, but not at

the scope. Like previously a ransacker. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously. Yeah. I mean, we saw, you know, he was doing the ransacking and that was, you know, and he was taking stuff and then he wanted to amp it up.

Yeah. So it's all about, it's all about power for him and first it was the power of, I'm in your house. Second is the power of, I'm in your house and I'm taking your stuff, but it's the power of, I'm in your house and I'm taking your body. And then the fourth one was I'm in your house and I'm going to kill you. Yeah. Jesus.

Fuck. Also, I think it'd be interesting like if they're finding, or they will find things happening in Auburn, cold cases, cold rape cases, stuff where if he was a police person in Auburn and like, was there a woman that came forward that was like a police officer raped me, but I don't know who it was and they just didn't do anything about it. Like, obviously it's a worst case scenario, but it's that, I just keep thinking of that kind of thing where I wonder if he was able to control himself to save it to go into Sacramento or into the East area to do it and then come home and stay safe that way.

Or if he, if it spilled out onto like wherever he lived in Auburn. Yeah. I mean, I have a feeling it didn't spill out. I mean, this is just pure conjecture, but yeah, but I think that that there might have been certain ways that he might have made somebody feel uncomfortable, but for the most part, no, I mean, he was just like sort of like an upstanding citizen and he did his thing and everybody thought he was a fairly nice guy, but they didn't know him that well. You know, I mean, are we going to see, you know, the fact that they were, they commented

so often and listen, what are you going to do when you're watching just people bring up boxes from a guy's house? Are those boxes of all the stuff that he stole from those houses? Yes. Oh my God. Like direct evidence. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a question. Did he have a trophy room? Of course he did. Oh my God. Of course he did, right? I don't know. And we're not talking golf trophies over here and bowling fucking trophies, obviously. We are talking, we're talking the trophies he took from his victims.

Jesus. The China cabinet. What are you really, what are you really taking from there? I know you take a lot of stuff because you're also wondering, you want to, you know, they're going to, they're going to, you know, dot every I cross every T. So you want to make sure that you're going to cover everything. And he could know who knows, he could have been doing something bad now, but you know, what were they taking out of there?

I think that's it. Well, what I always thought was so creepy was the, I mean, and this is just such a mind fuck, the way he would take something from one crime scene and couple months later and leave it at another, which means he was holding on to stuff. Yeah. There was a place where he was keeping it. Yeah. Yeah.

No, that was, that's, that's weird. You know, when there's a lot of weird questions that are going to be out there, why'd you, you know, bring the TV into the backyard? Right. You know, and all these things that, that we've, that we've gone round and round about and wondered about the diamond knots. And there's evidence. I think, I think I saw somebody posted a picture of him in the Navy.

Was that correct? Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And those knots. I haven't been on social. We've just been doing a bunch of stuff here. So.

Oh, it's getting real fun on social. I bet. So you, are you guys, uh, I mean, I just can't imagine. So last night you guys had this, but we were talking. It was four in the morning. When we were talking to you. Right. Yes.

I did not realize. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Last night we were in, we were in Chicago and went to Naperville because, um, Gillian Flynn was talking to myself, Patton and Paul, amazing about the book. So cool. It's, you know, Gillian is from here and she's the woman that wrote, you know, girl

in the train and, and gone girl on all that stuff. And then there was, uh, uh, also, you know, it was kind of just close to where she grew up. Michelle did. So Michelle's family was there. We had a great talk about the case. We said, you know, people like your early things going to be solved and we said, yeah, this is going to be solved.

I have no doubt this is going to be solved because of the DNA, you know, I don't think zodiac potentially could be solved. I wouldn't say that. I would put money on it, but we have DNA of somebody that's not, you know, you can't fake that. So then we, uh, we were all just pretty white. We, we went home, uh, to back to Chicago and stayed in the hotel. And for some reason I woke up to a text, you know, like two in the morning or something

or one in the morning and I just started from there. I mean, can you work? Was it like a stomach drop? Was it an out loud gasp? Was it like, did you just get cold? What was that? What was your reaction in that moment? Well, the first reaction was earth is a press conference or well, what's that going to be

about? Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's always going to be, is this real or not? Yes. One of the things that I keep telling people is that once I confirmed it, so my, my, my first thing was about confirming it. And that's just my journalism instincts that I want to confirm this thing.

After I confirmed it and then I'm like, all right, I confirmed it and I put out some tweets and I told everybody and I wasn't going to tell Patton yet because Patton was like super tired last night. So I was like, all right, I'm not going to wake the little guy up, but I was like, I'm going to grab him right at like five, right? So, but then I, because we had a very early flight, so I was sitting there all alone in this, you know, bed and they were bedded before and I'm just, I started thinking and questioning my consciousness of whether I was dreaming or not.

I was really wondering whether this was a dream and it was like, wait, I was at a, you know, it was weird. I had the weirdest dream last night. I was in Chicago. It was in the suburbs and then Gillian Flynn was there. We didn't eat dinner, but they gave us brownies and I ate the brownie on the way home and I was like, going through all this stuff. It's like, well, was this, and then I got a call that, you know, a text message that

there's a press conference and I was wondering whether this was really a dream or not. And then we were both doing it, me and Patton, when we were sitting at the airport waiting for the plane at the board and we were both saying the same thing as like, if we wake up and we're back in the hotel, yeah, this is going to be really, what was in those brownies? Yeah, exactly. Some of those. I think it was actually thought it was brownies. It's just such a fast.

It just feels like this, you guys being on the book tour, like it's so it's such a fast turnaround for the way this kind of like, it built. And I feel like everyone was prepared for this to go on for so much longer. Yeah. No, there was no built to this that was 12 hours, you know, yes, that's one of the reasons when we were talking about it, and I was trying to think of what Michelle would feel. And you know, there would, she would be feeling what the like to come down right about now. Yeah.

Where, you know, and we have talked about that is what are you going to do with your, you know, when you finally catch the guy, this was your first, you never forget your first. This was your obsession. Yeah. If you are able to get answering to that, what are you going to do next? And I wanted that to happen because I wanted her to work on other cases with her. Yeah.

And I currently have, in my own investigations, I constantly have 15 to 20 going at the same time because I'm doing street cons, I'm doing ones that, you know, are a little bit more easier to solve and they're not, they're not sort of romanticized as much as, as somebody like this is. Yeah. But it, you know, I think she would have that sort of come down and just kind of, you know, sit alone in a room and say like, well, what, you know, what happens now? I think there would definitely be things like she would be like, God damn it, he was the

Veselio ransacker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She went back and forth on that one. And so did Paul. And so not because, you know, he had that stocky body, you know, they would say that he had that cherubic face.

Yeah. So he obviously, I'm really interested to see what his pictures look like during the ransacker phase then versus the ear phase because I think he probably lost some weight because they kept on talking about how he had this moon face, this baby fit. Right. Yeah. And then he ended up, you know, with face that was very kind of lean or at least, you know, what people can see of it when we were talking about the ear.

Yeah. It's a real, it's a different, those, because there was, there's one picture of him as a cop with a mustache that looks like it's from the late seventies. And he looks so different than that navy picture or any of those younger pictures. Like he does not have that stuff on his face. He doesn't have the width to his face. He looks very lanky. But it looks like one of the sketch, the older sketch of it with a mustache.

Yes. Dude. Yeah. No, I think that's, that's probably what happened. And obviously grew the mustache after a while, maybe grew it to kind of hide himself, you know, but I think, I think he lost some weight. What he was doing was strenuous too, you know, I mean, yeah, he was doing parkour. Exactly.

You got to be in shape for that. Yeah. To see, to see what he, you know, turned into, you know, you know, the cops were sort of like waiting outside for him, saying, or it's just going to move or what, because, you know, they were trying to collect, collect something from him and obviously he wasn't moved. So crazy. So crazy. You know what I keep picturing, like when they were talking at the, at the press conference

and I understand like the DA, Emery was kept saying like, this is the detective's work and the, and whatever. But what I like to picture is like, Michelle was just this bossy lady that kept showing up and being like, yeah, but I need to write about this. So could you guys get it together? Like she just kept going to places and being like, I need you to prioritize this. We need to, this needs to matter more to people. And like, so yes, the, the credit fully goes to those detectives because they were always

there and they had to work on it and whatever. But there is that like, we, you know, I don't know, I feel like we all know the credit goes to like the fucking mouthy broad that gets in there and goes, you guys, seriously, like do something about this. No. And the fact that they called in the Golden State killer, which they wouldn't have called them if not for Michelle, that's how they refer to him as. And then the, you know, that they're saying all that, you know, the book didn't have anything

to do with it. Yeah. The book just came out. Right. The article though came out a long time ago and the article got everybody buzzing in circles and got people like you guys interested in it and it became part of the lore of people would bring up, you know, when people were mentioning certain serial killers, they would bring up this guy and nobody ever talked about this guy before, you know, this guy had one

unsolved mysteries episode and you know, it really was very, very low on anybody's radar until she came along and really, really boosted it. It's not about the book. It really was about her doing, you know, you know, constantly being on, you know, writing about it or TV shows or blogging and then the article coming out and then all these people coming, you know, like her selling her life rights because they thought it was so interesting and all that jazz, you know, that's, you know, does the task force happen without her putting that case back into the spotlight, you know, and does she, and does

she have the, the kind of like engine to go forward if it wasn't for also all those other data miners online that were super dedicated and doing the same thing she was doing just not actually going anywhere, but like the people that, like when we were talking about Paul looking through every single, or I think it's in the book actually, it's, you know, when he was the one that had already looked through every year book or he'd already, there's, there's just been people who have truly been dedicating themselves to the minutia of this case like a police person would, except they're, they haven't been paid, they've just been doing it out of the passion.

And the people who, who, who the victims are willing to speak to, like someone who's super empathetic and wonderful like Michelle, because they've been waiting so long for the detectives to give them an answer and they don't want to wait any longer. They speak with Michelle and that kind of reinvigorates them into pushing the detectives to keep looking into the cases. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

And one of the things that I really hope is that everybody that was working on this case that were data mining and everything, they go find some other ones, you know, go use those skills. This was, this was your training wheels and this was one of your first ones. Now go and solve one of the other 200,000 unsolved murders that are out there. Yeah. That's one thing I'm working on right in the book right now and it's about the cases that I've been able to solve as working as the consulting detective, consulting digital

detective, whatever you want to call me. But the, you know, the fact that we are entering an age where we're going to have the most educated retirees we have ever seen in the baby boomers. These are people that can just, that, that want to help and there's also millennials that want to help. There's also baby boomers that want to help and what I'm doing is I'm creating sort of a system and going to do a pilot program somewhere where some police department wants to do it.

Well, we'll just open it up, you know, screen people, make sure they're good, not pay them. They'll have their own computers and they'll just go in and be able to do this stuff. And yes, there is a chain of command. Yes, there is. They will only get you so far and then the police have to take over. But when you're looking for a needle and a haystack, you can get them to that needle and then you just have to prove that that needle is guilty and these murders are just piling up.

Yeah. It's 5,000 new unsolved murders every year and they're just piling on top of each other. You might hear about, oh, this murder, okay, we just, we just cleared 12, you know, from a few different years. There's so many that are out there and, you know, there are a lot of smart people now that want to help that we should be able to to work with them and have law enforcement. That's one of the big projects that I'm working on right now. That's amazing Billy.

Incredible. Such a good idea. Sign us the fuck up. We're signing Steven up right now. I'm really bad at research, but I have a lot of passion and I'm fun to drink coffee with. That's right. You guys just bring the coffee and wine, you know, and everybody's got to play their part.

Okay. Maybe we do it like Sunday nights. It's not a game night. It's just prime-solving nights. Sure. That we'll do. It's kind of similar to that. I mean, the thing that I'm talking about is a little more serious than that.

But yeah, I mean, you're going to see a lot of that. I think people want to, want to get involved and they're not going to be the sexiest cases. You know, there's going to be cases that, you know, we, you know, this one in particular was so interesting just because there was so many clues. There was almost too many clues. Yeah. And it really became like something that could have been a, a really intricate board game or choose your own adventure or something.

Yeah. I think it's also. Go ahead. Oh, just that there's a beautiful aspect to it of like, we, a lot of times talk about the problems in the police, police not talking to each other, you know, the, all that kind of the zodiac stuff that happened when they don't want to share information, but we're, it's like real time we're watching as the DNA evidence like develops as all these different new technologies develop.

There's also the consciousness of, of detectives and these people who are starting to understand how they have to change and they're doing it. I think there's part of that that's so hopeful and beautiful, you know, like even just in, in that the golden state special that was on ID where they're kind of talking about that changing their approach so that these things can get solved. It's a matter of numbers and it's not like we're getting a bunch, a bunch more detectives. So if you're adding 5,000 murders every year that are unsolved, you're not adding 5,000 new detectives.

Right. And what happens with these detectives is, is that they might be working on a cold case and they might be working on a case that happened two weeks ago, then they catch another murder, meaning, meaning they get, they, they have another murder that they need to go solve and that other one has to, has to take a backseat and you know, the idea of the professional detective has only been around for like 150 years before it was, it was, you know, different people that were actually solving these murders and they weren't necessarily professional detectives.

A bunch of Pinkerton's. Yeah. Well, even before that, it was being before that there were, you know, police, you know, real police, um, squads that were out there, you know, the police were created not to solve soft crimes, they were really created to keep the peace and stop riots and stuff like that. Wow. So, you know, I think that you're going to see something along those lines in some place and it's going to be like community policing, but it's not going to be, you know, walking

the streets and doing a guardian angel type stuff. It's going to be a little bit more of that data mining variety and using the skill that you have in your, in your neck of the woods. It's so cool. Thank you so much for calling us Billy. It is amazing to talk to you on a day like this. Yeah. You're welcome guys and hello to all the murderinos out there.

Thank you. Keep in touch. Please. So much. I mean, it was one thing that you, I mean, you guys have such a powerful platform, uh, to talk to people and you guys are one of the biggest things that are going on a true crime right now. And it's great to see you guys.

I don't know if you guys know this or not, but I went to see you at upright citizens brigade once. Oh, yeah. 30 people there. Oh, was that the cracked podcast with Jack O'Brien? No, no, no, no. It was like, you guys were just there. I think Margaret show was there.

Oh, yeah. Oh, that was, um, yeah. Oh, awesome. Wait, did we meet, we met beforehand at the restaurant though, right? I think we did. You came and said hi. Yeah. Yes.

That's right. Yeah. You know, I know that, you know, when there's a lot of people that are out there that just are learning a lot from your, from the stuff that you're talking about, they can look in the cases. What I say is like, look into that one hometown case that you've got and just, uh, and if you are happened to be a victim or a family, um, of a victim in the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

That's certainly one of the things that happened here. If you see what Debbie Domingo is doing, you know, she was constantly calling and trying to get information. And if you, if you've got a crime that happened, a violent crime that happened, just keep calling the police. Don't lose hope. Awesome. Amazing.

Thank you so much, Billy. Okay. We'll talk to you soon. Talk to you soon. Bye. That's so incredible. That was rad. Yeah.

Oh, what a get. That felt like a real news, a real news situation. I have to say, maybe we can close it up, but I'm like honored that we get to be a voice in the background of this and like Michelle McNamara as we've, I've been, we've been such a fan of hers, a fan girl of a fan girl crime and like I'm just honored that we get to even talk about this. What a, yeah, what a magical thing that in real time, not, it's not like 20 years from now where we get back together to talk about that they finally found the guy or they finally

figured out who it is, it's just like, this is shocking, it's thrilling. And yeah, kudos to fucking Michelle McNamara and her, it like, people keep using the phrase a dogged persistence, but I think there's something it's, it's like this righteousness and this like kind of call for justice that I think we all feel. And I think most people are good in that way where they don't want other people to suffer like this. Yeah. And that's what's cool.

It's like all those people at that press conference, everybody that's talking about it, everybody is just like, no more of this shit, no more pretending right, doesn't matter, no more pretending that you, that, you know, all the, all these weird old things are really going by the wayside, these old attitudes, all that kind of stuff. And it's like building a new fucking tomorrow as corny as that sounds. No, I agree. And it is this, what was I going to say, I was going to be great. Do you want me to say really quickly, I was, I was, when Billy called, I was just trying

to say people in Sacramento now who are loving Sacramento and want to defend Sacramento, you don't have to, because I get towns change, whatever, but I also get to have my opinion about this, the very short amount of time that I suffered greatly in that town. Every day I was suffering, I was a goth in the summer, it sucked shit and I couldn't go anywhere and be happy. We're going to, we're, it doesn't mean anything about you or your family or your fucking grandparents. And we weren't even, we weren't even planning, our tour agent wasn't even planning on sending us to Sacramento and we insisted because it's become this running joke.

Well, because Sacramento murderers are like showing up and they're like, they're like, come here. We love it. We love you. So we love that. It's, it's been so fun, but, but you cannot change my mind about 90s Sacramento. I think they love it. Oh, I know what I wanted to say.

Yes. And I love what I love about Reddit, about what, about this press conference about, I'm what I'm sure Michelle would say is that no one is saying, I knew it. I took credit for this. It's because I said this, I said that it's this, it's, it's wanted to be solved by so many people and that's so much bigger than anyone's ego. They wanted to be solved for the victims and for the victims' families and friends and to put an end to this fucking monster and bring them to justice.

And so I love that this fight is not for, for credit or being the one who solves it. It's about justice. And I, I know Michelle would be saying something to us along the lines of no, no, no, it has nothing to do with my, you know, she would be demuring and she would be rightfully so giving a huge amount of credit to the detectives who have worked on this for years and years. And, you know, and wanted just as much to solve this passionately as we did. 100%. And the way that sheriff was saying at the beginning, I wrote his name down, Scott Jones,

my party friend Scott Jones, that he was saying in the beginning, he, when he became the sheriff, the person who was the sheriff before him was like, this case is huge and important and you have to work on it. So there are all those people that over the years, when they were just trying to go place to place with no technology, with everything was writing, writing everything up by hand and putting it into a file. I saw something that was like one page of files from back then takes, you know, three weeks for us to like translate.

That's so wrong. But you know what I mean? To put into a computer. To put into your computer, like one file takes, we have to, yeah. It just takes forever to make it. Maybe it's one. It's got that. What?

I don't know. But basically it takes fucking forever and it's tons of work and it's really hard work back then. It's all paperwork and those people suffered, the police who worked on it suffered too. Like they, they're the ones that had to go and suffer by not catching him and by meeting more victims and there's so much, it just is so incredible that there gets to be at least it's not closure, but it is this like it's next steps. It's real next steps.

Finally. It's fucking finally. Fuck guys. Thanks for listening. Let us know what you think. Yeah. This is really cool. Yeah.

I'm thrilled. Me too. All right. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Bye. Elvis. Elvis.

Elvis. Elvis. Elvis. Elvis. Elvis.