My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 124 - Errant Duct Tape

Episode Date: June 7, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the unsolved crimes of Mr. Cruel and the murder of Girly Chew Hossencofft. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. And begin. Hello and welcome. This is my favorite murder. This is the true crime podcast where we get real serious. And then there's a weird fart sound in the background. Yeah. That was like a, should you hear that, Steve? Yeah. Oh. It was probably plumbing. That really threw me off my game. It was. You better start off. You know my game, how tight my game is. Your podcast game? My podcast podcast game is usually real tight. Now when you train to record, you use a small

rubber ball just for dexterity and just like to throw against the wall. Throw against the wall and I catch it and like you can tell there's a montage usually where it's like my brain's getting bigger, but the podcast part of my brain is growing. And what song is playing during that montage would you say? Dude. I have a tiger. I have a tiger all day. Every day that's all that goes to my brain. It's not the other hit song by that same band. My brain is swelling and it's causing cranial pressure. No, it's just clowns laughing. That song clowns laughing. It's just the sound of multiple clowns laughing. It's pretty soothing. Is it the kind of clown laughter where they have a, there's a raspy wheeze where you can

tell that they are also a hobo on a train. Yeah. It's like that kind of clown that's got a cigar that looks like it just blew up, you know, like how to trick blow upy thing in it. Could like crush you the clown. Exactly. Do you know that somebody mentioned, somebody cited this and actually said, and maybe they were just being sarcastic, but you know how we named one of our episodes like breakfast wine or morning wine? Breakfast wine, I think. It's from Arrested Development. Oh, really? Yeah. It's something, it's a, it's something that the mom says, which I'm sure if I said it, I stole it from that. Like that's, that's all I do. No, I think I've had breakfast wine before. Okay. It's one of those

traces that are in the lexicon. And the vernacular? And the vernacular. All right. Well, I just think it's funny that people would be giving us credit where it's like, you know, this show was from eight years ago, right? No, we said it first. Probably. Same thing with Murderino. That's from The Simpsons. That's how I thought of it. Just know. We didn't know that, but now we know. Now we know. Now that somebody tried to get the patent on it and it and everyone went, what the fuck are you doing? So that went away quick because I think some weird person in Canada, not to say Canadians are weird, but you know, you're weird, you know, tried to fucking trademark the word Murderino. Yeah. And all these fucking people were like, fuck you. And then they were

sending cease and desist letters to people on Etsy who were making fuck. Like if you and I haven't done it, that person, whoever the fuck you are. Yeah. Some third party where it's like, sorry, what, where, how are you involved in any of this nonsense? And then they responded. We're just trying to make sure that it's not abused in any way. We're trying to keep it safe. Not your job, not your business. It's back off. Yeah. And also, and also, no, you're not. Yeah. Also, don't lie. You tried to make a greedy move. Yeah. Stand by it and be like, oh, well, I tried to make a greedy move. Here's the thing. I'm sending a cease and desist to that person being a fucking cunt. The cease and desist being a fucking cunt. Let's just start season and assisting people.

I'm going to send a cease and desist to arrest development for stealing our ideas eight years ago. Okay. And putting them on TV. Yeah. Before we even met. Take that. Take that. I was working at podcast didn't exist. 2010 development. No. Were we working at 2010? 2010, I believe. That's the year I decided to up and get a divorce and move to New York. I was like, should I change my fall look? You're straight up. What's her face? Throwing her hat in the air. Mary Tyler. Yes. All I had to do was make the gesture and you knew what I was talking about. Mary Tyler Moore, but the wrong city and she's never married. But you did throw a hat in the air. Yes or no. I threw a hat at people. I'm not a hat person,

but I will use one as well. No, a cloche, a nice cloche. What's a cloche? A cloche is the 1920s like little, um, they like kind of flare up and they look like German helmets. Oh, yeah. A nice little felt cloche. Have you seen my fucking humongous face? Have you seen my? I can't fit into like hats and a normal lady size hat. Too small? Yeah. My giant head. No, huge head. You have a huge head? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You did. It does not look like it at all. It's a secret huge head. Really? You're keeping a great secret over there. Thank you. Me, I'm all over the map with this. I'm telling everybody with my huge head how huge my head is. Couldn't be bigger. Um, there's nothing worse than people are like, this is sending me into a spiral of

thinking about having to get ready. Have you ever had to get ready at a friend's house when you were like, say you guys went to the beach all day. Yeah. Then you make a decision. Yes. At six o'clock, we're going to go dance. Can I borrow a dress or something? Right. Great. They give you the ugliest dress they have. Hey, how about this? Yeah. It's been laying in the bottom of my closet. How about this because I know you and I know you're never going to return this to me. So let me give you something I don't care. I don't care about it. Yes. And you won't look better than me. And you won't look better than me. And I don't actually care about your feelings or well-being. So just put this fucking on and shut up. I cannot tell

you how many times where I'm like, well, I simply won't go to the second location with you then. That's from 30 Rock. Um, yes. Scyther, Scyther always site footnote three. Yes. Uh, yeah. Like and they just that idea of hats or it made me think of one time, my friend, I was like, can do you have sunglasses? I was so hungover in my friend's car. She opens up her glove compartment and pulls out no joke. They were checkerboard sunglasses, but they were also big rounded cat eyes. So I look like that guitarist from cheap trick. It looks like a fucking lunatic. And I was like, can I not be the one? I don't like attention like raising your hand and being like, I'm hungover to everyone who walks by. I'm hungover and like, and I might be able to sell

you X to see if you ask me with the right code word. That'd be nice. Um, all right. Luckily, we got that offer. I'm glad we talked about that. You were saying you haven't watched any true crime shit. No, the, I've been deep into things like Howard's End, which if you haven't seen it and you like a period piece, they made it for stars, I believe. And it was with the best Mr. Darcy Matthew McFadden and a woman who you've seen in a million things, but I don't know her name. Sorry. And it was so good. It was so brilliantly done. It's, it's better than the movie, which was with Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson. Well, I, I can't believe you haven't seen this because I think I slipped into your brain and watched this show on Netflix. Kind of new

called safe. It's a fucking British procedural. Oh, this girl goes missing. It's a, it's based on a book by Harlan Coban, who I guess is like a mystery writer. Okay. I think I've heard that. It's all British people. Coban with a B or an H Cohen. C O B E N. Oh, okay. Okay. Main dude. It's the dad. He's the guy. There's some shady shit going on. What's going on? It's fucking Michael Seahaw with the hardest British accent you've ever fucking heard. Dexter. Yeah. What? Yeah. Oh, I have so distracting, but it's also like distracting because it's so good, but it's you're clearly a good fake British accent. So he's not originally British. No, no, it doesn't seem to be, but I would love that as a reveal. No, like I've been British this whole time. No, because

I went to his house once. I've been to his house. Why? My friend's friend was having a party there and he was very nice and not British. Okay. All right. Although what if at the party he was putting on an American accent? Cause he's like, people want me to do my Dexter thing when I'm at the party. I'm studying for a role usually. Oh, that wasn't bad, right? No, it was really good. Everything we do is good. I'm really good at karaoke. It turns out also I have a half an hour left of killing Eve and I'm really excited about it. I just started killing you. Oh, you did? Yes. It's good, right? I loved it. I mean, love it. Yeah. Those those two ladies, Sandra Oh and the woman. Oh, God, she's good. She's got a foreign name. Therefore, we don't have to remember it. I don't

even think that's true. I wish. Yeah. But she's great. No, that's a good show. There's also lots of great British actors in that show. Yeah. The dude who plays the bill. Yeah. The boss or the asshole boss? The cool boss. I love that guy. Yeah. He's from, I knew you'd know him. I'm going to have to think about that for a while. But anyway, that's a delightful show. Yeah, actually. And then did you see somebody tweeted at us that they went to the screening? Yes. They wore a Murderino shirt and then a bunch of people yelled at them and they had like a moment. I love it. It's very cool. I hope I hope Sandra Oh heard that and knows that we think she's rad. We love you, Sandra. She's just so cool. She plays like this bumbling detective. Yes. I love it.

But like it made me think of because I don't watch Grey's Anatomy. I've watched it a little bit. But I'm not obsessed with Grey's Anatomy. I know. I'm not a Grey's. May, I don't have a Grey's. An anatomyr. An anatomyr. There it is. I'm going to trademark that. An anatomyr. In Canada. When she was in the movie. Don't touch my toe. When she was in Sideways, which I just rewatched once again because it's so good. She is so sexy in that movie. Just that messy hair. And then in this one, Killing Eve. Killing Eve. That's a movie. It is. Yeah. Thank God. With why am I even pretending to be like, to know who's in anything. Killing Zoe is a different one. It's with the guy who was in the mask. Eric Stoltz. And then Julie Delphi. Whoa. Only because I had

a big crush on her. Julie Delphi? Yeah. Okay. Go on. Anyway. Well, no, no. What I was going to say is she's the different. Oh, when I first started watching Killing Eve, all I could think of was, I can't believe it's the same person who was in Sideways being the sexy girl that has the affair. Yeah. Because she is doing that kind of like dumpy thing. And it's so funny. She's good. She's great. I want to kind of do a quick fucking piece of business. Would you? It's not that boring. Give this podcast some fucking structure. I will not. So we have a fan cult now, a fan club that you, if you go on myfavorimurder.com, you can join it. You get a free t-shirt, a fan cult t-shirt and an animal pen. And then we also

do like, we're going to post videos, we're going to post old live shows that we've never posted before. Oh yeah. I think that's a big deal actually. We haven't mentioned that. I think we should start doing this week. Yeah. The fan cult right now, it's like, you know, you pay money and then you get to be on a forum. Nobody else gets to be on and we, that's when we are like posting tour videos and stuff like that when we could. But we are going to start releasing old live shows that we've never released before on the fan cult. So if you are one of those people that likes to tweet at us once a month for three years straight about how you want your episode of the show that you're at to be posted, well, guess what? Join that fan cult because then

that's how you're going to be able to listen to this. And actually we should start a chat room. Is that still a thing? Oh, I don't want to. In the forum on the fan cult and say which ones you want to see that are from the, which live shows. Oh, like start a thread. Yeah. Because I don't remember what any of them were like, but okay. So now people are posting. So we have people just started posting photos of their pets in the fan club t-shirt that they get for free. And it's the best. Of course. Of course. I love it. I made Stephen put a a slide show up a slide show up on Instagram. So I want everyone to now hashtag fan cult pets when you put your pet in there and we'll make slide shows like once a week of the pets with

the t-shirts because it's like, and then there was someone who posted a fucking goat in the t-shirt today and it just made my day. That's the funniest thing because in lately, the couple times I've posted, I took the dumbest picture in the world of Georgia and then I had to post it because she looked so stupid because I was weirdly over her. So her eyes were crossed, but it looked like she was smiling and she has these tiny little teeth. Anyway, every time I post a picture of either of my dogs, people respond with pictures of their dogs and it is the cutest, most fun thing because then it's just like, it's as we're all pretending dogs are talking to each other. I love it. Normally I don't go for stuff like that. Georgia's hideous, so and so. So and so, so high. I think in

this day and age where everything around us is an onslaught of horror, you need like a picture of a dog in a shirt. Amen. Thank you. Amen. Hashtag fan cult pets and someday I'll put Marty in his fucking fan cult shirt. My dad. Marty. Who joined the fan cult on his own accord. God bless him. Even though I would have given it to him for free. I'm not a fucking sheep's gate. I would have given, I would have given you 20 bucks to go in half on Marty's membership. I have to say that people have mentioned this, but I think it's a pretty good deal. 40 bucks for one full year. Oh, it's only for a year. Yeah, that makes more sense because if you rush, if you work it out like one of the great accountants of the world, try not to shit on accounts anymore. That works out to you paying

about a quarter an episode. One, a 25 cent piece for an episode of this podcast. And you get a t-shirt and an enamel pen and you get to talk to Marty. You get to fucking talk to people and you get to be there on the inside line when we start doing actual shit that people care about. Yeah, and when we do like, why are we trying to listen? Do or don't, there's no try. Yeah. And we wrote that George Locust, not you. That's mine. That's mine. Do or don't, there's no try. Sure. You know, at the end of the day, made the first be with you. We're not here to make friends, the Bachelor. I'm still for the ship. All right. Okay, so last episode was a live one from the Dublin. The episode before that was our famous Paul Halls episode, like Karen is still recovering

from. Dude, I tried to re-listen, I mean, to listen to the Paul Halls episodes. I was like, this will be fun. The first time, like, I do commend myself for A, not crying, B, not leaving. I actually really, really wanted to leave. When he first was in the room, you know, there was that back door. Yeah. I was like, I could, here's what I could do. I could hold up my valet ticket, like there's something wrong with my car and walk out that door. And there's nothing they can do. Like you would just have to keep on reporting. But what about next time I see you? I know, but I just, I'll deal with that later. Oh. But it was a, it was fight or flight. Oh my God. And I really, it was that thing where I was like, I can't do, I can't do this. You did

great. You did great. I know you hate surprises. But when you listen to yourself, yes, that was tough. But also trying to form a sentence where you're presenting your fucking dumb theory to the person who worked on the case for 38 years. I know. I know. I felt really stupid. I felt so stupid. But yeah, I guess that's just how it's going to be. Yeah. There was, I'm just saying, there was like, he was very patient with us considering like, he's the best person on the planet. Everyone you need to know, like, he was, he's not just like that on when he's being recorded or whatever. He's, he is like that in person. He like deserves all the accolades he gets. He was such a fucking nice person. Nope.

I have never been friends with a cop before. Right. And he's the first one. It was so nice. You know, that's the thing is I do know cops. Yeah, you do. Lots of people, my family and whatever. My panic, I think, in that moment of he's actually in this building was I didn't want him to come through that door and be what I thought a cop would act like, which is a swaggering, condescending. He's a detective. He's a science based. But I had that fear of like, you know, as I've said a million times, working in television, you learn very quickly, you do not want to meet your heroes. Right. You do not. That person that you're like, that person's great because they're on Grey's Anatomy. Yeah. No fuck. No, you're going to have the worst experience and you're

going to be heartbroken. So that was part of my like, uh-oh, like here. Now if this guy's corny or lame, that's just how it's going to be. I have this like self esteem issue where I don't think professional people want to talk to me because I'm not. I fucking dropped out of community college. Dropped out of community college. They can tell from your college. Who are you? It's that thing of like, when you go to a party and like, there are your friends and then there's some girl there and is like, so where, so what college did you go to? Right. When someone asked me that question, I want to get mean, but I know it's only because I'm really self conscious of it. But also like, why are you asking me that? I'm 30 fucking seven years old. Yeah. Well, also some people, that's

all they have. I don't know what my point was, but I felt very comfortable around him. There's a lot, there was a lot of reason to be insecure. A lot of reasons to be insecure. And you, he was hit his whole personal personality and demeanor was exactly the kind of thing that made you go, he'll want to hear my theory about why he was a, he looked one way in Visalia. Yeah. Like, he made us feel like he did want to hear that stupid bullshit. Totally. It's very exciting. He's a lovely person. And I have to say, I don't know why we didn't take pictures or we should have taken video coming in something scared and panic. Yeah, we were panicking. But, but I was going to say we had a lovely conversation after we stopped recording too. Cause I was like waiting for him

to just leave. Yeah. And then make an excuse. Yeah, it should be like girls, you're welcome, goodbye. But here's the best part. I don't think, did we say this the last, I guess on the mini soda or something, but he told us afterwards, cause we assumed he was just in town. Yeah. He traveled down from Northern California specifically to be on the podcast. But no, that was magical time that, you know, we were very lucky. Here's my thing. Karen, I say to myself, don't re-listen to the episode. Have it as a nice memory in your mind and walk away clean knowing that you didn't let your pants or do anything you didn't run. You need to give it an Italian style kiss and then walk away and walk away onto the next kiss into the face of it. Yeah. Onto the next

investigator who sells a massive cold case. Speaking of, should we do an episode with perfectly white teeth? He must not drink coffee, which I can't. How do you get through life? His teeth are perfectly white. I know. Okay. Sorry. Maybe they pass out teeth whiteners on first class Southwest now. You get your own Crest White strips at the beginning of the trip and you take them off the runway at the end. I mean, I gotta say, we're not being paid by them, but those motherfuckers work. Crest White strips? Yeah. I wish, I mean, clearly I don't know. Have you ever used one? Look at my fucking rotten teeth. No. I had my teeth professionally whitened once and I was like, well, now they're whitened, but now they're just a little short

Irish teeth. What's the point? That's like, don't wash the curtains on the front of your shitty house. Yes. Wash the curtains on the front of your shitty house. I'm getting the curtains fully replaced with a cassette. I'm going to get teeth so big and white in Hollywood that they're going to look like cartoon teeth that are just one strip and that have no individual teeth. It's just going to look like I stuck in one big thing of white. You're going to replace the whole fucking house. You're going to demolish the house and you're going to build a fucking McMansion in its place, a tacky. It's going to be a fucking houseboat house, but with teeth made of teeth. That's good. Houseboat house is truck boat truck that you

stole from Squidbillies. I just want to give credit where credit is due. Let's please give credit all, all due. Okay. Do you want to go first or do you want me to go first? Whatever you want, I'll do it. How's yours? What's yours? Weird. Mine's dark. Okay. Is yours solved? Yes. Okay. I'm going to go first then. Okay. Is that okay? Yeah. Cause then we'll have a good ending. Yeah. Cause mine isn't. Do you mind if I get a cup of coffee? No. I thought you were going to say, do you mind if I guess what it is? Do you mind if I guess what the solution to your crime is? Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping and prepping handled, HelloFresh has you covered. HelloFresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can

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20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my new podcast Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you

insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton serial killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psyche Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. All right. All right. We're back. We're back with coffee. You're coffeeed. I'm just a... It's less for the caffeine and more just to brown my teeth down a tiny bit more. You just got to get that perfect mocha. I'm tanning my teeth. Tanning my teeth. All right.

Okay. Yeah. Listen. Look. It's finally fucking time to look and listen. Okay. To Mr. Cruel. Oh fuck. I know. Good. Good one. I know, right? It hit me. Yeah. I've been starting it forever and then just with this whole Golden State Killer thing, which I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing us talk about. Who cares? Fuck them. I'll never stop talking about it. I'll never stop. But wait, are you starting with this? Because the Mr. Cruel, the first piece of news, the day of the arrest or the day before the arrest? The day that it was announced that the Golden State Killer, a suspect had been apprehended. So it wasn't even like, yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Maybe it was in your story. Because I have Golden State Killer and Eurons

on my Google alert. So I get those news things whenever they come out. Cool. And it was just a news piece that said, is the Golden State Killer Mr. Cruel? And I was like, that's weird. Just out of the blue. Somebody's just like asking that question. And then it was like several hours later where they're like, they have a DNA. Right. So, but also they were like Golden State Killer linked to Mr. Cruel, which was really exciting. The thought of killing like two birds, I guess that's a bad way of saying it. Like fucking catching these two elusive, you know, I'd say equally fucking traumatic cases. Yeah. At the same time, would have been awesome. Didn't happen. But we'll talk about that. I won't talk a lot about that. But would have actually

would have been beyond crazy because it's like Golden State Killer in and of itself is mind blowing crazy. And then the idea of that where it's like, then you're just, just pulling down all kinds of cases. So this, so Mr. Cruel, I want to say it was similar, but it, you know, of what it did to the public. But I think it's Golden State Killer was so little known, and it wasn't known his scope until much later. Right. So it's hard to say that, but it, this is one of those cases where where it changed life in the suburbs in Melvin's like outer reaches forever in the 80s. One of those, oh, the 80s are fucked up. We can't let our kids play outside. Yeah. It just left in the fucking indelible scar on that. That sounds smart. It did sound good. All right. There we go.

Let me make up a word. You didn't, you used it. You used it correctly. Thank you. And you didn't even stop until the end. Yeah. I didn't even question myself until the end. Until the end. All right. Here we go. In the late 80s to early 90s, in the suburbs of Melvin, Australia, a serial pedophile rapist known as Mr. Cruel was fucking traumatizing everyone. All right. Here we go. So on December 27th, 1988, in Ringwood, which is a working class suburb of Melvin, and about 5.30 a.m., a man wearing a blue ski mask and dark blue overalls breaks into the home of John and Julie Wills, where they live with their four daughters. He first goes to the parents' bedroom and puts a gun to Mr. Wills' temple. Julie starts screaming to her daughters to fucking run for it.

Oh, could you imagine waking up to your mother screaming run? Yes. No, I can't. Please. He tells her to stop screaming and asks, he tells her to stop screaming and asks the dad if he's going to be a hero, which is such a fucking threatening thing to ask someone. He forces them to lie face down on their bed and ties them up with copper wire. He tells them, and this is one of his ruses, that I'm just here for money, so they're more compliant. So they let him tie them up and they take $35, the span takes $35 from the nightstand, and then this man heads for the kids' room, cuts the telephone cables, goes in the bedroom where 10-year-old Sharon and her

siblings are sleeping. I know. Okay, this is fucked up and horrible, and children are involved. But also, it's one of the most famous cases out of Australia. And when we were there, people would talk to us about it all the time, and it was like, for live shows, you just can't do these. This is the kind of one you can only do on a show. No one forgets these, and the horrible, it's like the Adam Walsh one for us. It's not solved and it's fucking insane and very solvable. Yeah. Maybe. Okay. So Sharon is a 10-year-old. She's a choir girl. She plays a lot of musical instruments. She sings in the Victoria's Children's Choir. He addresses her by name, which he maybe knew because their

house had been featured in the newspaper six months earlier after the home caught on fire, or maybe from being in the choir. But that thing of like, you see a child in the newspaper and these fucking paddles. Like, we should stop printing children's names in newspapers, maybe. I mean, if only that would solve it. Correct. Yes, you were right. So he lifts Sharon from her bunk blindfolds and gags her. And after grabbing a few items of Sharon's clothing, he leaves the home with her. It takes Mr. and Mrs. Walsh 15 minutes to get free. They seat at the daughter's missing, and their phone cord's been cut. They go next door, wake up the neighbors, and they call the police. There's no trace of Sharon, and no witnesses could be

found. They have press conferences. The cops are going crazy to find her. 18 hours later, just after midnight, a woman finds Sharon standing on a street corner. I forgot to fucking translate this. Six kilometers from her home, which I think is just a couple miles. Right. I think it's like three miles or so. Yeah. So she's three miles from home. She's wearing a man's shirt and wrapped in garbage bags. She's alive. Oh, my God. But she's alive. And in a calm voice, she says to the woman, my name's Sharon Wills, and I was taken from my home early this morning. A man left me here and told me to go and ring home. This woman was like, what the fuck? Of course. She described Sharon as being brave and calm, and police were called,

and Sharon is brought home. She had been blindfolded throughout her whole 18 hour ordeal. So she couldn't describe her attacker, but she was able to give them many other details about her time and captivity. The man had taken her to a house and sexually assaulted her. She said he was occasionally gruff, but mostly soft spoken and seemed to be caring. And she even used the word gentle, which is so fucking creepy. He gave her a glass of milk and a Vegemite sandwich and some lemonade. So he was like feeding her and caretaking her. Before he let her go, though, he made her shower thoroughly. He brushed and flushed her teeth, and he trimmed and cleaned her nails, thoroughly washing away any forensic evidence. So clearly he was aware, but even in 1988, he was,

which then I just go, cop, cop, cop. Right. So everyone fucking thinks like he lay a sheet down on the bathroom floor, make her stand on it after the bath and, and like dressed her there, like wouldn't even let her feet hit the ground. Wow. Um, and she described to police how he, he made her stand in a large plastic garbage bag when she pulled up and taped to her shoulders, put another bag over her head and taped it to her body before cutting out a small hole for her face, and then dropped her off a few miles from her house, telling her to walk to the nearest house to call home. So a hundred dollar, no, a hundred thousand dollar reward is offered for information on Sharon's abduction. This is the first reward offered in an abduction case in the state's history,

so they'd never offered a reward before. There were a couple suspects, but nobody panned out. His next abduction took place 18 months later on July 3rd, 1990 in Canterbury, just over 10 miles from Sharon's house. It's an affluent suburb. A 13 year old girl, Nicola Linus, she's in her 15th sister Fiona, their home alone in their family's rented house where their parents were out, and they were only supposed to be gone for like two hours. So police think that this guy was canvassing the area. The Linus family, uh, was moving back to England after the father's three-year transfer had ended for his job at Price Waterhouse. So they were packed and they were ready to leave within a few days. And the party that there were the, where the parents were at was a farewell party

for them. Nicola is dry, is described by her parents as a hard-working girl, one of the top students. At about 11 30 PM, both girls are shaken awake by a masked man armed with a long knife and a handgun who would crept through a weird window of the house wearing a black ski mask. 15 year old Fiona is tied up and left on her bed while 13 year old Nicola is forced into another room and told to gather her school uniform, blazer, tunic, and runners. Those are her shoes. For those, not from Australia. Before leaving with her, Mr. Cruel tells Fiona to tell her father that he would release Nicola unhurt if they paid a $25,000 ransom. So Mr. Cruel then walks Nicola out of the house and uses the, steals the Linus family rented car and fucking takes off in that

car. So Mr. and Mrs. Linus arrive home about 30 minutes later. They find Fiona on her bed, tied up, a massive search begins, and Mr. Linus spoke in a press conference and offered the ransom money, but Mr. Cruel didn't reach out. They couldn't get ahold of him. He's full of shit. It was another fucking red herring. So they would look into his, his business dealings, all of that shit. Oh, right. And be distracted by something else, just like in the past one, where they were like, he was there for money. He was stealing shit. Right. No. Instead, and they found the rented car a couple blocks away. So he had just driven it to his car as another like way to throw off police. The following day, Nicola is left alive beside an

electric and electricity substation in Q, about three miles from her home, just before 2am. She's fully clothed. She's wrapped in a blanket. It was her 14th birthday. She went home and called her father. She went to a home and called her father. So she had been gone for 50 hours. Shit. She tells police about her, that her abductor had driven her to the area. And then when he was taking her back, he had driven her there, walked her around a little to kind of to confuse her while her eyes are taped shut, made her sit with her head between her legs and took off. And he was gone by the time she removed her blindfold that she had been wearing for 50 fucking hours. She told police that she was masked and bound throughout the ordeal, but was not threatened

with violence. She had been given food and drink. She had described her attacker as affectionate and chummy. Like what a fucking psychopath. Yeah, this dude is also it's making me think of Paul Holes on Twitter. Somebody said, do you think that the East area rapist or the Golden State killer could also be this case? And they brought up some other Northern California. And maybe it was the I5 Strangler. It made just somebody another case. And then he was talking about the difference between the MOs. One is yeah, I remember that's like one is a friendly person and one is stroking the hair pretending that it's a consensual situation. And then Golden State killer is as a sadist, a sexual sadist and a psychological asshole. Leave that in.

I mean, what if you say stuff and then I'll just read Paul Holes Twitter. How about from now on, your stories are always just you reading Paul Holes Twitter. I might have to go to therapy. More therapy. More therapy. He calls her Missy during fantasy games he played with her. She said he was meticulous in covering his forensic tracks. And she also told him that he had watched the press conference where her father had spoke with her in the room. And he was commenting on it to nickel about it. Like, can you imagine being a kidnap person and you're in the room where your father's pleading for your fucking return. And he's just like commenting on it. That's so dark. Like it's so dark. It must it's so disorienting and upsetting anyway. And

then and then you're just kind of like, you're through the looking glass. I think that like, I think at some point in the past 10 years, it hit me how terrifying being blindfolded must be. Yeah. And so it kind of gives me a panic attack whenever I think about that. Yeah. So that and then to be hearing what's going on on the TV to has to be so scary. And okay, it was then reported. So then the cops at this point, the police are able to connect these two cases Sharon and Nicholas. And they didn't make this public. They connected these two cases. And then they realized that there had been another attack that they could link it to beforehand in August of 1987. So this is the previous one. And then what about an 11 year

old girl she's never been named at about 4am wearing a mask and carrying a small handgun and a large hunting knife. He removes a window pane and the lounge of the house in the suburb of Lower Plenty is the name of the suburb of Melbourne. Remember when we were in Melbourne? Remember like this is so cute here. No, it's a scary place. But they have such cute dresses. The best dresses. Okay. So he first again, and it's in a couple of these stories that I read online, it sounds like he went straight to the parents room, like he knew what rooms everyone was in, meaning he can't listen to that shit. He's watching them. Exactly. So he for he wakes the parents and forces them to lie on their stomachs, ties their hands and feet. He uses

expertly tied knots commonly used by sailors and those familiar with securing loads. Again, the knots are like distinct. And then he gags them and put surgical tape over their eyes and locks them in their bedroom closet. He says, get into the wardrobe and sit down. All I want is money. Liar. Liar. So like, of course, they're complicit. Complicit? Compliant? Compliant. All of them. And complacent. Because they're like, oh, he just wants money. I don't need to defend my family. Let's just go along with what he says. It's such a great ruse, because if he were like, I just want to kill your daughter, they'd be like, fuck this shit. I'm going to fight to the death. Right. You know? Yes, exactly. There's an element of relaxation because it's like,

he can take anything you want. That's what everyone says in that horrible situation. It's just like, who cares? Take anything you want. Don't hurt us. And he's like, I'm not gonna. I just want money. So they go along with it, which is so evil. So the next thing that happens is their six year old son is blindfolded and gagged and he's tied to his bed. And then, and remember, this is the first known Mr. Cruel attack, then he spends the next two hours in the house sexually assaulting the 11 year old daughter in the house. He stays in the house. He doesn't kidnap her. So if this is truly his first attack, which we don't believe it is, of course, then he's clearly with these other two cases that I already talked about escalating. He takes them away and keeps them for

longer and longer times. But in this one that happened before, he does it in the fucking house. He's in no hurry. He even takes a break to make something to eat in the kitchen, just like the fucking Golden State Killer did. And I wonder, and I don't mean to like question you on this, but well, if the knots are the same, these knots are even similar to the Golden State Killer. Well, remember, because he spent some time in the Navy in Australia. That's why they were wondering if he was had something to do with this case. D'Angelo did? Yeah. The Golden State Killer, Joseph D'Angelo spent time in the Navy in Australia. Shit. Yeah. But in that timeframe or before? Way before, like in the late 60s. So he was familiar with it. Going there wouldn't have been a

weird thing for him. No, no, no, no. But I wonder if those knots were taught in the Navy or in Australia for some reason. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. He also searched the home and he did steal a box of classical records and a coat. But they think that was a red herring too, but I'm like, maybe it was just fucking into classical records. Or maybe he's like one of those fucking weirdos that's all grabby and like, I need something. Yeah. This is the closest thing. So listen, girls and guys, check your dad's record collection and see if he has an errant box of classical music and then turn him into the Melbourne police. Australian classical music. That's right. So the girl later told police that he had made a phone call near her while she was

tied up and threatened another family with physical violence. The fuck? She said he told the person on the phone to move their children or they would be in danger and that he called the person he phoned bozo. That was one of his nicknames for people. But when police checked the phone records, it revealed there was no phone call made. So that was another red herring for her to tell him about that. But I don't understand that. I don't believe it. I don't know why, but that creeps me out worse than everything. Like someone talking to nobody on the fake phone? Yes. I hate that so much. It's like... Eerie. Because I hate bad acting and you know it was bad acting, but that idea of I'm doing something. There's a control element to it. I'm doing

something and it's not for anyone, but this girl right here and the police who come and... Yeah. It's like a shock and awe thing. You don't know what's going on and then you more don't know what's going on. It's like a call was coming from inside the house type of thing. But then I'm like, could the phone records have been shitty back then? Because that doesn't make any sense. Unless he's just trying to make this girl think that he is a full-time 24-7 criminal, you know, rapist threat where it's like... He's such a bad guy. ...one time with this appointment. I'm going to go do my other thing. Right. Right. So they think that was just a red herring, which was one of his stupid signatures.

This fucking asshole. Okay. So this connection made Mr. Krule a household name and the name Mr. Krule comes now when he's described by Victorian police in a late Victoria police, not Victorian police, because that would be a weird time-traveling thing. This is Jack the Ripper's investigators. Like, oh, and really, really quick. There's going to be a future case. No. Let me wax my mustache really quick. That's not what happened. Victoria police in the late 80s described this guy in the papers as super cool and super cruel. And so some fucking smart-out journalist was like, that's his name,

Mr. Krule. Wait, sorry. Who would describe this guy as cool? Missed like cool as in like cool as a cucumber. Calm. Got it, got it. Like he's hung out at the house and shit. He's not worried about getting caught. Oh, not scared. Got it. Yeah. Not like, you know, who's cool. Not like a... The Fonz? Yeah. There you go. Thank you.

He's the only cool person I can think of. And you were right. I was thinking of just the worst people. Okay. Name one person you were thinking of. Um, I forgot already. Uh, you know, Kato Kalin. Cool. You know. You know, the kind of guy you'd want to talk to at a party. Kato Kalin. You know. What I think was Kato Kalin. No, it's not. It's not. And we're not suggesting it.

No, I met him. Very nice person. Very nice. Everyone says he's the nicest. And cool. And cool. That's one thing they say about him. Super cool. Okay. So the police are now very concerned because, and the police, I want to give them credit and the investigators were fucking on this shit hardcore from, like, from Gett. Like, they, from Gett? Who am I? From Gett. Uh, except they fucked up a little bit, but I'll tell you about that later.

Okay. So police are worried because the time lapse between his attacks is decreasing while the time he holds his victims is increasing. And so the police announced that they believe Mr. Cruel to be responsible for at least six attacks before this since 1984. So, but they didn't give descriptions, but they did say that not all the victims were children, but they didn't like tell you which attacks they were, but they think that he's escalating. Yeah. And these other ones, these older ones fit his MO. Also, the idea of children being the victim as an escalation marker makes a lot of sense

because it's like to attack a person near you, to attack another adult or whatever. But it is especially evil and disgusting and, and awful to be like, take a 10 year old out of their bed. Absolutely. But you think that that wouldn't be the escalation because you'd attack a kid first because they'd be easier to handle than an adult. Maybe. Like a woman, an adult woman. I know. Yeah. I mean, it's all, it's all, listen, don't do either. Look. Look and listen. Don't do.

Stop it. Crimes. Don't do crimes. Oh, are you the serial killer listening to this podcast? Do us a favor and fucking knock it off. Please get help. You need help? Or just go, go into the woods for a while.

Yeah. Just stay away. Just don't do it. Please. People have plans. They have fun stuff they want to do. So, so because very little evidence is left behind because he's so good at hiding his tracks, the invest, the investigation into finding him is a total dead end, even though they're fucking crazy looking.

One piece of evidence that emerged in later interviews with Sharon and Nicola was that both girls, this is so fucking creepy, were called hearing low flying planes over the house where they were held captive. Oh, oh. What'd you think that meant? For, for a second, I think it meant that they'd heard low flying planes like days before. Oh, like he was a fucking parachuting in a biplane like fucking recon.

That would be so scary. That would be horror. It's like the red baron is coming after you. Oh, no, that's not what happened though. But that's actually, it's the other thing of you're blindfolded and so then you can fucking hear it and you're traumatized. So you're listening to everything and you're, you know, it's like. And they're just laying there. Oh, honey, I feel so bad for them.

So they hear low flying planes where they were held captive. Nicola said that it sounded like the planes were coming into land, which is like, girl, get it. Police worked with the Civil Aviation Authority to pinpoint flight paths and based on the description from the girl, based on the description from the girls about the frequency and loudness of the flights, which is so interesting that like every little detail counts. You know, when everyone's like, is there anything else you can think of? I've told you everything. It's like, you just don't know what can matter.

Yeah. So the, so based on all of that, they determined that the girls had heard planes on the flight path to Tilla Marine Airport. So they like pinpointed the fucking airport near Melbourne. So Mr. Crews final known attack. All right. This is fucking depressing. Mr. Crews final known attack takes place nine months after Nicola's attack on the evening of Saturday, April 31st.

That's not right. April 13th, 1991 in Temple's toe, it's a high-end suburb of Melbourne close to the other attacks. 13-year-old Carmen Chan is home babysitting her two younger sisters, which is a totally normal occurrence as their parents worked long hours in the family's successful Chinese restaurant. It was just 10 minutes away. The hard, the chans are a hardworking couple. They built a small restaurant and property development empire since migrating from Hong Kong 16 years earlier. They worked like 15, 16 hours a day.

Their home is described as being like a fortress. So it's an 18-room house and it's protected by a two-meter fence with electric front gates. So they're not fucking around on security. So leaving their three daughters at home is not that big of a deal because they've taken measures. Carmen went to the same school as Nicola, which is a weird coincidence. Or is it a red flag herring? We don't know. Is the herring wrapped in a flag?

A red flag herring is a new thing. Carmen's principal describes her as charming, polite, enthusiastic and lovely. She had a large group of friends and was extremely hardworking. So the sisters are watching a documentary about Marilyn Monroe in Carmen's bedroom. Went around 9 p.m. The two older sisters, Carmen and the sister, decided to go to the kitchen, but they're stopped in the hallway by a strange man in a balaclava. And he's carrying a large knife.

Now you've seen this fucking drawing of the balaclava that's supposedly handmade and has these crazy white stitches around the eyes and around the mouth. It's so upsetting. We're going to post it on Instagram when we post the episode tomorrow. It's very terrifying. It's just like worse than a regular balaclava somehow. And also when we oftentimes these kinds of stories come up, the idea of walking, you're in your house, you think you know what's happening,

stepping into a hallway and there's that like, my therapist described it as being mirror neurons, where when you picture something happening to someone, you actually get the sensation of the feeling. And the stress reactor too. And the stress reaction because that's us empathizing with each other. But that idea of, you know, when something weird happens in your brain, like you can't, you feel yourself not registering it because it's so weird.

Or you almost like, I feel like if I saw that I would go, what's going on? Like you think it's a joke. Exactly. You don't consider that it's immediately a threat. Yeah. There's a hang time where you're just like, there's not someone in the hallway.

Your brain has to catch up to it or what it means. Or what's that? Is dad playing a trick on us? Exactly. Like it's so upsettingly awful. This is why I'm like pepper spray first. Like if you accidentally pepper spray your dad because he's playing a trick on you, then your dad fucking deserves it.

Yeah. I think that's a great way to teach pranksters their boundaries. You know what I mean? Yeah. Kick someone in the dick if they jump out and scare you. A hundred percent. If it turns out that it's your friend fucking with you, then they deserved it.

Well, then they won't fuck with you anymore. Absolutely. That's for sure. No one will fuck with you anymore. No one. And the world will get around. No one, but no one. What was that?

Why did I talk like that? I like that I just explained why somebody in the hallway is scary, as if that was my new idea for this fucking podcast. Come on, we can say whatever we want. We really can. That's really silly. No one can stop us. No one, but no one.

All right. Ta-da-da-da-da. Carmen, sister. Da-ba-ba-ba. OK. So. Back to the horse. Balaclava.

Here's what's scary about it. It's like he has, you know, like even in the Golden State Killer, when he's wearing the Balaclava ski mask, you can see what his shape, his eyes are, what maybe like the skin around it, what color it is. This one is made so it's just peep holes. Yeah, it's awful. You can't see his mouth.

You can't describe a lip shape, anything like that. It looks like something out of a Metallica video, or it's like, oh, this is a, it's this creature that's down at the bottom of a clay pit. Are you suggesting James Hatfield is Mr. Cruel? I'm saying, why don't we look at him when it's so obvious? Was, where was he? Were they touring Australia?

Were they, I do know they kicked off their, they kicked off one of their tours in Petaluma at the Phoenix Theater. What? Which is so hilarious to me. Why? Because they were a barrier band, and they were small, and we were small, and they were like, well, start there. These, these people, I almost called you guys Hicks, I'm sorry.

No, we've, we are Hicks for sure. We are Hicks. But we contain so much more. Multitudes. Okay. Stop it, this is horrible. It's the worst. Okay.

Okay. He grabs both the girls in the hallway by their hair, forces Carmen's two younger sisters into a closet, bars the door with the bed. The two younger girls later tell police that the intruder had called out, I won't hurt you. But, and by the time the girls pushed their way out of the cupboard, I think it was like 15 minutes later,

there's no trace and no sign of Carmen. Police dogs trace Carmen's scent through the house, pass the family's car in the driveway, which they find is spray-painted with the words, payback, payback Asian drug dealer and more to come. Fucking red herring. Yep. Now I'm onto it.

Now you know. They are, they track across the garden, then the tennis court through the gate, the scent is lost on the street. Based on the MO, of course, the police are like, it's motherfucking Mr. Cruel. This is bad. So, and unfortunately, search for Carmen starts out badly,

because, are you ready for this? Uh-uh. Listen, fucking amen. They were all these task forces put together. Everyone tried really hard to solve this. It didn't work. Look, here's a negative thing. Look and listen.

The initial police officer in charge that night set up the command post inside of the car, of Carmen's house, the crime scene inside the house. Oh, oh, oh. So he brought everyone. He was like, this is a crime scene. Everyone get in here. Meet me in the middle of the house.

Shit. Yeah. But it's the late 80s? 91, so basically the 80s still. That's, that might be too late to have made that mistake. Yeah. Like do it on the tennis court or something. Yeah, so if it's an 18-room house.

Yeah. Uh-uh. Go outside. Yeah. So, so the, the, the, the set up, so people were swarming the house, which was supposed to be a crime scene, which meant it wasn't sealed off, as it should have been possibly destroying vital evidence. But knowing Mr. Kruel had released Sharon Wills after 18 hours

and Nicola Linus after 50, the chance had hoped that their daughter would be home soon. But those deadlines passed and there was no sign of Carmen and no word for Mr. Kruel. So because of the scraping in the car, police also spent months sifting through every aspect of Mr. Chan's life to see if the abduction was maybe drug or business related. Well, they'd have to, but. Yeah, they did, they didn't think it was, they, they kind of knew it wasn't, but had to. Yeah. Which takes, it's like work time, money.

Exactly. Fucking waste. They found Mr. Chan was squeaky clean and that the slogans were another example of another red herring and had sent the police on another wild goose chase. So, so because Nicola and Carmen went to the same school and Carmen had been abducted, abducted during a school holiday and the other girls had been abducted around or on school holidays too. So the investigators advised that maybe Mr. Kruel was worked in education or had a partner who did

and that partner had gone away out of town for the school holiday. Oh yeah. So they fucking asked everyone all these crazy questions that might have been another red herring too to like spend time asking teachers and principals and people who work with them questions too that didn't have anything to do with it. It's so funny because there already are so many red herrings in cases like this and then just adding more to the pile and it bleeds it back to it's a cop. Right, right.

So a dramatic quote, police need your help poster and it's almost like to me this reminds me of when we used to see the milk carton, the kids on milk cartons. It's like terrifying thing when we were kids. This poster showed photographs of the three known victims and offered a $300,000 reward for information leading to Mr. Kruel's conviction. It sent, it was sent to every home in Victoria and some in New South Wales and South Australia, which was a first every single home. Wow.

Huge versions were plastered on hundreds of billboards and smaller ones were displayed on Melbourne's buses and trams. It changed life in Australia forever in the standard. We thought it was safe. Oh no, it's the 80s. No one is safe. That was my quote way. That's right.

So Phyllis Chan. Oh honey, the mother. The mother. Okay. I want, in a lot of podcasts, this is the part where they'll just start playing her talking at this press conference, which is the most traumatizing, sad, scary thing I've ever heard in my life. Oh no.

So I'm not doing that. Because she's so upset. She, it's, if you listen to it, if you can handle shit like this, but I, I was listening, pictured, I was walking through H&M and I was listening to case file, the case file episode, and then it just starts playing. And I got just chills down my whole body. It's so, like the grief you can hear in her voice is heartbreaking. Yeah.

So she makes these emotional pleas to him, to Mr. Kruel, to bring her daughter home. She offers rewards. She offers to switch places. She offers her life for her daughters. No, no, no, no. I know. That's also a person that's, I mean, like obviously that's what any mother's going to feel, but then it makes me go, she, she wasn't in a good place to be making any statement

whatsoever. If you're- Well, they know he's watching. So they're like, let's just let her talk. Oh. And she calls, she says, I won't call you Mr. Kruel. I'm calling you Mr. Kind because I know you're kind and you'll let her go. Like just trying to fucking-

That's a good psychology. Right. Trying to reason with him. Oh. It's so heartbreaking. So for almost a year, there's hope of Carmen's safe return. But on April 9th, 1992, just four days short of the first anniversary of Carmen's abduction, a man is walking his dog along Aguirre's Creek in Thomastown when he discovers

a human skull in some, in a landfill. DNA confirms it's Carmen's skull and she'd been shot three times in the head. They were able to find some other bones, but she'd been shot three times in the head. The head of the homicide squad thinks that Carmen's body had been there for nearly 12 months. Oh, wow. So maybe since the beginning, which is so heartbreaking. It's all, that's the worst. Yeah.

They, investigators think that it's the most likely reason for the change from kidnapper to killer is that Carmen somehow managed to see Mr. Kruel's face. Oh, yeah. Something he had painstakingly avoided with other victims through the use of mask and blindfold. He had told one victim before to not to look at him saying, my freedom is more important than your life. And Carmen's mother Phyllis told police that her daughter was not the sort of girl to accept captivity without a fight.

And she thought that Carmen may have ripped off her blindfold and confronted Mr. Kruel. For nearly three years after Carmen's found, 40 investigators named the Spectrum Task Force followed 10,000 tip offs tips. One of the victims said she saw a camera and tripod at the end of the bed. She had peaked and yeah, I know, which, which the firm's a speculation that Mr. Kruel likely created homemade porn to keep his trophies. So then they like have to look through all this shared homemade porn and see if they can find the porn made of these girls, which like,

you've got to think about the people on that task force who had to then watch fucking hours and hours and hours of child porn. Oh, it's horrible. How awful is that? Um, yeah, there's so much, there's, there's so much, um, even thinking about something like that is really upsetting. Yeah. And the idea that those people do that is for a living.

It makes you understand the whole like, the whole trope of like coming home and to not wanting to tell your significant other how your day was because you just watch hours of child porn to catch a killer who's not the loose, you know, and like, you get why they like kind of disassociate and become like, yeah, the different people. This is the world that they, this is how the world is to them. Yeah. And they don't want to let their husband or wife or partner know what it's like. Of course not.

Sucks. Okay. So another burst of publicity. No, they can't, they have leads, but they, no one pans out. There's another burst of publicity in 1993 after police released details and sketches of the interior of Mr. Kruel's house where he held his victims because, uh, they, because the girls peeked at it, one of the girls peeked out of her blindfold, even though it was like fucking risking her life.

Sharon and Nicola were able to provide police with aspects of parts of the inside of the house were like, including like, in their sketches online, you can see like chronic crude, but like layout of the bathroom where the toilet was where the sink was where the bathtub was what color the fucking carpet was like little weird details that if you lived there, you would, you know, you would be like, that's my bedroom. Well, and also just if you read those and then you're like, wait a second. Yeah. George's bathroom is like that.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Totally. And they have a carpet that's green. That, that's so creepy. It's so creepy. Also like one of the girls was able to tell them what side of the house she entered the entered on from the parking lot.

So like even those little things they, they could search houses and they ended up searching 30,000 houses based on this, all this information, all the information that was given. So insane. Yeah. They really worked this case. Overall operation spectrum was Victoria police's largest ever investigation at the time. It changed the way all Victorian detectives conduct investigations. Almost a $4 million manhunt though turned up little in the way of answers to who Mr.

Cruel was. Okay. Another roadblock was that some of the evidence from prior Mr. Cruel attacks from before had been lost, including tape. Mr. Cruel used to bind one of his victims in an earlier case. That wasn't one of these. And because people, because they get skilled, more skilled with time, the older ones are so important because maybe they were less skilled. They were a little messier. Yeah.

But they couldn't find that there was, so there was no DNA that could be found from that. And the stink that the spectrum, operation spectrum detective kicked up because they couldn't find those exhibits, records from earlier sex crimes, prompted a review by Victoria police and introduced detection of minimum standards for all future major crime investigation. And it covered such things as forensic crime scene, preservation and other aspects of the investigation. And because of that, the police force became more professional. It strengthened legislation regarding sex and child pornography as well.

Good. The tax force was disbanded though in January of 1994 after detectives had eliminated more than 27,000 suspects. It did, but it didn't catch Mr. Cruel. But the investigation led to 74 people being charged with offenses, including rape, incest, blackmail, attempted bestiality. Oh, no. Possession of child pornography, threats to kill, making obscene phone calls and firearm

offenses. They worked for 29 months. I said all that. Okay. Since Carmen's murder, there have been no more apparent crimes committed that could be connected to Mr. Cruel. They ended. And remember when fucking GSK ended in 86?

They were like, he had to have died. People don't end. Yeah. But people don't stop. It doesn't just stop. Right. Okay. One theory is that the actual Mr. Cruel was interviewed and feared that he was on a suspect list.

So he just was too scared and stopped. That's one theory. The FBI got involved. Their analysis stated that he's a functional individual who has a steady employment. He's generally regarded as a good neighbor, quiet, polite, somewhat introverted, maybe involved in certain community-minded projects. Like, so just a fucking everyday dude. Yeah.

They built a profile of a man aged between 35 and 40, slightly built with sandy or ginger colored hair, softly spoken and quite caring in his own monstrous way. In fact, one of the victims told police that he, when he bathed her after, he bathed her quote like a mother washing a baby. Good. I know. Then he's having this totally separate fantasy experience where this is a consensual fucking relationship with a child.

Right. And saying to them, he said to one of the girls, I'm going to bring you home in 50 hours. He brought her home in exactly 50 hours. Like, this to him is just this little moment. Yeah. It's just something he needs to do and everything's okay. Right. And he's not a monster because he's not killing them in his mind, probably, you know. So then in April of 2016, in the lead to the 25th anniversary of Carmen's murder, Victoria

Police released a 1994 dossier to the Herald Sun newspaper, basically containing intimate details of the case that hadn't been released and contained information about seven possible suspects that hadn't been ruled out since then. Oh. So including details of the prime suspect. So the prime suspect was then a 75-year-old, he's like now a 70, late 70-year-old former Melbourne University lecturer named Brian Allen Elkner, who wrote all these like creepy fucking like merquitosod style papers about evil and how doing evil is like an art form.

And it's like all gross. In the late, in the 1970s, he was arrested and imprisoned for 10 years after pleading guilty to a series of rapes and other violent sexual offenses against young girls and women, including attacks at knife point in their homes. But he's like, hey, I know I'm the prime suspect. I didn't do it. Leave me alone. I paid my dues.

But what the fuck? And he, he, he serves 10 years in prison for being a violent child rapist. And then he's like, and now I'm going to get a job at the fucking university. No, I think he went back to his job as a lecturer. Like he had already done that. Guys, it's got to change. We got to not. We got it.

We got to keep it. There's got to be a qualified lecturer who's not a fucking child rapist. There's got to be other choices. There's got to be someone else in the bunch. I can't. Just the idea of people being like, oh yeah, I was a serial rapist, but I went to jail for seven years. Now it's that's done.

It's like, but we've been proven it doesn't end like that. No. And it's like, and even if it did, you don't get it. You don't get a free pass after like, I know it's like they paid their dues. No, you didn't. No, no, that's not enough dues. That's not enough dues. A million years aren't enough dues.

You're not allowed to fucking sexually assault and rape women or men. Like it's just, and especially fucking children. And you're going to get it for the rest of your fucking life. So now all these like newspapers were like following him and he's like, what you're doing to me is the, you know, you're harassing me and I'm a victim too now. Saying like he was like one of those victims. No, buddy. No, you're not, buddy.

That's why I fucking say your goddamn name, Brian Allen Elknery piece of shit. Fuck you. Well, also, that's the thing of here's the, here's the thing, you know, if you're going to go choose to be a serial rapist, which is what the choice you made, this will be something that impacts your future life. Like maybe you'll be suspected of other things after. Right. You don't just get to wipe the slate clean.

There's a reason he's like, yeah, police call me after every time there's some kind of, you know, predator on the loose. Yeah, dummy. Yeah. Because you're a predator. Yeah. You're a predator. I don't give a shit if you've never fucking done it again.

You will always prove you've never done it again. Right. You can't create. So Victorian police have confirmed that they investigated and ruled out a connection to the state's infamous and identified offender, Mr. Cruel, to the GSK, to the Golden State Killer. But they shared a ton of traits, as we already said. And they're both highly premeditated and surveilled neighborhoods for weeks at a time. From what I can tell, they don't have DNA on Mr. Cruel at all.

But I could see them having it and not telling anyone. Wait, so then how do we know that they ruled about? They just buy timelines and stuff? Yeah, they didn't rule him out. Oh, the GSK, the Golden State Killer. Yes, he, yeah, it's not him. Oh, okay. Maybe by DNA.

I don't know. But hopefully, hopefully they do have it and they'll be able to run it through that shit and solve it soon because that would be another great fucking win. Yeah, that'd be amazing. Yeah. Well, also, that's just such a, God, that's such an awful, those kind of things can't just sit there like we're all fine with it. Yeah.

And not that they do because obviously, like it's very heartening to hear that they put together a task force with 40 cops on it. That's amazing. When's the last time we've said something like that? Yeah. Where it's like, usually the task force has five people who are working overtime. Yeah. To try to solve something.

Yeah, there's some number too of like the amount of unpaid overtime hours that these police officers put into this. I mean, there's all these numbers about it, but it's really horrifying. And to be, I feel like to be from that, a kid from that period and the boogeyman is still fucking out there and it could be anyone and it's just so scary. And poor Chan family who have no peace of mind over this, it's just awful. Yeah, it is. So that's finally, Mr. Cruel.

Wow, that was great. Thank you. I think we really enlightened a lot of people on what's bad and how bad things should be dealt with. That's what I feel good about. They should be dealt with by canned wine. But here's the commercial for canned wine. Excuse me.

Steven, can you cut out every time I hawk up phlegm like a fucking Greek fisherman? God damn it. I see that Twitter. Excuse me. Greek fishermen are actually. Excuse me. My dad's Greek and I'm brokenhearted that you would say. I should I pee first?

Also, actually, I think I just stole that from Paul Tompkins. He used to call himself a Greek fisherman. So if we're going to footnote credit every fucking aspect of this show tonight, and I think we should, I agree. I'm shouting out to Paul Tompkins that that's the Greek fisherman line is his. We should call this footnoting the Greek fisherman this episode. Starring Paul Tompkins. Paul of Tompkins, the Greek fisherman is a Greek fisherman.

You already hear first kids. That's what this episode is called. But we'll do it just all initials. P. F. T. E. A. G. F. All right. Do you want it? I want to I want to wait, but then I don't want to stop you in the middle of it. Um, wait, you want to go to the bathroom?

No. Okay, I'll just power through this. No, no, no, no. Take your time. I'm a diaper on this. You're just like that astronaut that loved that other astronaut. We never talk about that story. Wait, we should actually do that one.

I just remembered it is an attempted murder. Excuse me. I'm making notes. I'm going to pee while you make a note. Okay, you just made something while you're in the bathroom. Yeah, you don't do that. You don't, you know, it's my favorite thing in the world. It's pain.

This, okay. So this one, I've been waiting, I've been thinking about this one for a long time, because when I think of us and murderinos and people who love true crime and people who pay attention to true crime all the time and just ingest it, like, when you go to your, for me, it was like, go to your hotel room after doing a terrible stand-up gig in fucking Peoria, Illinois, and you turn on TV and you have your choice of all this shit and you're going to go to, uh, you know, American justice, forensic files, the American justice, forensic files, all that.

Yeah. The stuff that's going to get ready for bed while that's on the background, because it's fucking soothing and comforting and it's like your friend. Yes. And it's also feels like I think there's that you're watching people take care of a problem. I think it helped me. Whereas like, I just did stand up. I failed miserably.

People don't like what I have to say. Now I'm here and I'm getting a perspective because actually I'm fine and I, my life is good. Love it. Whatever. This story and this crime is one of the ones that you've seen on all of them. Yeah. Because it's not so crazy. And it is the murder of girly Chew Hassankovt. So let me know when you remember what I'm talking about.

This was suggested to me by my online friend Zoe Clark who loves the show. And I know her from Twitter. We hung out at a wedding once. She's super cool girl. And she was like, don't forget, don't forget the classic. And I was just like, you're right. It's, it is such a, it's just one of the ones I think of this murderer's face when I think of. Do you ever like think like, I can't do that when everyone knows that one.

But then you're like, no, this one's great and I should do it. Yeah. Well, but you know, I think I changed my mind about that because we've met people in VIP lines who have said, why haven't you done A, B or C? And if we ever give that answer of like, we just felt like people have heard it too much. They say, but we want to hear you do it. Which I read as we want to hear you fuck it up. And then it's like, yeah, I can, I can fuck that up real good. So thanks Zoe for suggesting it.

And of course, there's an American justice on it. If you know, or somebody knows, I want, I need American justice. There's so many seasons of it, but I couldn't find it on like normal YouTube, normal internet channels. I couldn't find it. It's not on Netflix. It's not on anything. I guess I'll just go home and look it up on Amazon. But I would buy 20 seasons of American justice.

Absolutely. That show is the shit. And then we, as we all know, Bill Curtis. Bill Curtis is just whether he's wearing a blazer or a brown leather jacket. It doesn't matter. I love him. He's the, he's the original. I mean, Night Stalker.

Sorry. Okay. What if he won? So the one show that I could find this on was on like, what's that daily motion video channel? It was like super obscure. And it was a show called Crime Stories, which is a great show. Okay. I was trying to figure out if it's like Canadian or something because

I don't think I've ever heard of Crime Stories. No. And the narrator on Crime Stories is a man named Bill Courage. So like three chairs from Bill Courage holding down the Ford on Crime Stories. All of it, all of that sounds like stuff you would write in a TV show to represent a true crime show. Any. Oh, I got it. Yeah.

Like a fake one. Yes. Let's just call him Bill Courage. It's, you know, the host Bill Courage, whatever. Okay. Bring it to me. So this, this takes place September 9th, 1999. Okay. Here we are.

Here we go. 100 miles south of Albuquerque, New Mexico. There we are. Uh, it's an abandoned stretch of highway because you know all those weird crazy roads outside of the city. Oh, I watched Breaking Bad. Yeah, I know. You know.

That a lot of shit happens there. It's the kind of road, and I don't know if this is accurate to the real place or if this is just what it all looks like, but it's that thing where it's the shot, the b-roll shot was one long highway and then it's shimmery hot down like in the three quarters area. And there's just like a mesa in the distance. That shit. The most I know of that is driving home from Vegas and it fucking sucks. Yes.

And it's bleak and you can hide a body out there. Oh, absolutely. Okay. So there's a guy, he's a road worker and he has been, he's been like fixing this highway or whatever when he finds a pile of bloody clothes that look like a young girl's clothes. Oh, and so he calls the cops, they come and they start looking around nearby the clothes. There's suspicious looking duct tape because it's suspicious as a fucking duct tape near bloody clothes isn't suspicious looking.

They're like, look, we can explain all this away. Clearly, clearly you're driving out here. The heat got to you. You cut your finger. I think warrant duct tape, duct tape is suspicious. Yeah, duct tape on its own laying on the side of the road scares the living shit out of me. Absolutely. This duct tape was in the shape of a like a figure eight.

So it was duct tape that looked like super suspicious. Put together handcuffs. Oh no. So that poor road worker who I hope to God he wasn't by himself out there because then that's even then an eagle screams in the distance and you're like, this is the scariest thing of all time, but he grabs all that shit or he calls the cops, they come and they find another piece of duct tape nearby that has long black hairs on it. Oh no.

So they start looking into what this could mean and the police in the beginning in this crime story show were talking about how they thought it was children's clothing. So they were freaking out and like it looked really bad. They start looking up missing persons reports, recent missing persons reports to see if anything compares. And it turned out that there was a missing persons report filed for a woman named Gurley Chu Hossenkoff, Hossenkoff with a T at the end. So she was a Malaysian bank teller, 35 years old, very well liked, very responsible, big,

you know, had a lot of friends at the bank. And when she didn't show up for work, they immediately knew something was wrong because she was super responsible, but also because she had recently filed for divorce and she had told everyone at the bank, my husband has been threatening my life. And like she basically told them she was really scared and that her husband wanted to kill her. So the second she doesn't show up, they immediately call the cops, they immediately to like take all the action they need to. I also think this is just my opinion, but it seems like because she was, she was from Malaysia.

So she didn't have, I don't think she had a lot of family here. So I think her friends at the bank were like, if we don't do it, who will do it for her? Which God bless them. Thank God. And I have to say, I really like the name Gurley. It's just really cute. But then compared to the horrible things I'm about to talk about, it's awful. So just this, this is the all, all part of the true crime world.

So they, the police go to Gurley choose apartment and they find three damp stains on the carpeting and they find blood stains on her couch. And the whole place smells like bleach. So they're like ding, ding, ding, all red flags. And what they do, and they talk about it in this episode of crime and crime story whatever it's called. Crime. Stop her stories.

Crime stories. It's crime stories. Crime stories plural. Two words that we know. It's their easy words. It's not hard to remember. And yet here we are. But they talk about how the best move that the cops made in this entire case was in that moment.

Instead of cutting out a swath of the carpet where they were worried about, they pulled the entire carpet out and took it to the lab. They never do that. They took an apartment's width and length of carpet and they were just like all of it goes. Yolink. Which is so cool because then they have everything. So this was Gurley choose new apartment after leaving her husband who when she said she was leaving him went crazy on her, told her that he could make her disappear.

And when she finally actually got that apartment left their apartment was when she found him loosening the tires on her car. Oh no. She found she's like finds him doing that runs to the neighbor's house and then goes and is like in hiding essentially. So she gets a new apartment. They the cops know that she would have never let him into that apartment. And so they know that when they're looking for trace evidence on that carpeting

that that's going to be a key thing. Cool. Which is like all of that is just like cop stuff. Love it. So one of the main reasons that she filed for divorce. So they got married in 1995. Okay. Three.

Three. You I mean. 1993. That's what I meant. 1995. Three. They met in the early 90s at SeaWorld. How.

Cute. How. No, but not cute. I mean also it's bad for Orcas, but how do you meet someone at SeaWorld? Hey, hi. Are you going to finish that? Can I have some of your fish and chips? Are you going to finish that whale burger?

Just work and just work in the food court at SeaWorld. Yeah. They meet. They get married in 1993 because her husband, a man named and I'm not kidding, Dyson Hossenkopf. Jesus. He is he tells her that he's a geneticist and a doctor. And that he is helps people who have cancer.

He has a he has a very advanced like what do you call it? An advanced like serum that can cure cancer and that he can't get it. Like he had this whole story about it and he actually I don't know if he told her, but later on he told people that because of he of course he was a con man. He was not any of the things that I've said. He told people he cured his own cancer and that's how he knew that the serum worked. And that's how he sold it to people who were dying of cancer, who he built for thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

So he's an insane person and but he is like a con man extraordinaire. The cops at one point in this special talk about how he actually at one point joined up with a second con man and con that con man out of thousands of dollars. He's fucking kidding me. Yeah. So he's like a diabolical lunatic and anyone who's seen this because this is an old and very famous case. He really tries to play the part of the of the of the evil when he's finally in court.

He's really kind of trying to do a Richard murmur as Charles Manson. Like I'm the evil genius behind all this stuff. Why? Because he just needs a recognition. Yeah. So he went to college and he studied like science in college, but he didn't get into med school and that's when it turned. So he basically it turned into this weird con man fantasy life as if if I had gone to med school, this is what I would have done.

And these are the things I'm doing. So I'm going to get some cards printed up and tell everybody that I'm a geneticist, right? And that I have he not only told people he had the cure for cancer, but he also made a lot of money and met a lot of women telling them that he had this basically like a fountain of youth serum. Oh my God. And in this special is one of the best parts, one of his ex-girlfriends who he was by the way in he was engaged to one, he was engaged to a couple, but he was seeing three other women

while he was married to girly chew. And that's what she found out that he was basically all over the map with these women. And she was just like, I'm out of here. Like, go fuck yourself. And then he went crazy because he was like, Oh, I thought because you're from Malaysia, I thought you were going to be subservient and submissive and like not fight me and just take care of business. And she was like, go fuck yourself.

Yeah. That's not a quote. So the girlfriend who Dyson Hassenkoff by the way, his real name is Armando Chavez. How a lot of names happening. He made up the name Dyson Hassenkoff because he believed that Germans and Japanese are the master races, which is a very new approach to suit to supremacies. So he made up a name that was an amalgam of both. I bet you he owned like Nazi memorabilia or something like so obnoxious or something like

that. Yeah, probably. Yeah, but he's Armando Chavez. Like he has no business being in the world of who's the master race. Right. Like buddy, this works against you in every way. Yeah. Yeah.

In his claim of having this anti-aging treatment that also eventually you come to find out that he was also telling people it would make you immortal. That's where I'm getting off of this second train. Oh, you were on until then? Absolutely. You were good with bilking cancer patients? No, I thought it worked. Oh, I see.

But now I don't think it works. Yeah. Here's why else you won't think it works. Okay. And this is according to Julie McGuire who is in the special and she has a story to tell. But she immediately, like on the outset, it was like, I have this youth serum and if you do this, you know, it's going to make you, it's going to, she said it's, he said it stopped cell growth like entirely, which I don't think would be good for you.

That's like debt, then your cells are dead. Yeah, I think that means you die. Yeah. But he eventually let her in on his secret, which was that the drug he was giving her was created by aliens to stop cell growth so that they could travel from planet to planet and not have it impact them. And can you imagine if you're like her and you were like, here I am. I'm on board with this fucking, this anti-aging thing.

Got it. And then someone, this person's like, let me let you in on a secret. Yeah. It's like aliens, you're like, oh, shit. Yeah, it's almost like that's when you make that decision. And am I, am I just going to go all in on this and like push all my chips into the middle table? Because at this point, I can't be like, I can't, then I look fucking stupid if I'm like, guess what, I got out of this thing because he ended up being crazy and all your friends

like, we knew he was crazy. Yeah. You have to double down on it. But you have to remember this, you never have to double down. You can always get out of it because think of any friend you have. They've always had a worst boyfriend than the boyfriend you're talking about. And also who gives a fuck what anybody thinks. You got to get out of that shit when you can.

You're allowed fuck ups in your life and it's okay. Even at Julie McGuire's age, where she was like, and she didn't actually, when she's like talking about this in the special, she clearly knew he was insane because, you know, I don't think she thought the way she was saying it anyway, maybe she did. But she still went along with it. Well, she wanted them beauty treatments girl. There is no magic here except for Botox. I have to keep telling you, why must I keep telling everyone?

Why must I preach the word? But also they found out that his, his magic treatment was vitamin B12. And he was, he's making women pay thousands and thousands of dollars for it. Oh man. So he also had fathered a son with a, a woman in Canada in 1996. These are all the things girly she was finding out. And he was, oh yeah, engaged to three different women while he was married to her. Jesus.

Including one. No, no, no. He's short and he looks like a character actor. Did he pretend to be, it's just that, what were they after? I think he has. Not that, that was a horrible thing to say. What, what was the attraction? I think he has that, that sparkly glow of a psychotic person.

I mean, honestly, they're fascinating. Like this guy's the kind of guy, he was super smart. I think someone quote that he has that psychotic, he has that sparkly glow of a psychotic person is my favorite. When you meet a truly crazy person, it's a breath of fresh air. When they're like, I'm not, I'm not crazy in the way that I need like to be hospitalized or medical help, but I'm a diabolical. And I believe my own bullshit.

Yes. And I believe that I can trick you. Like there's, there's an energy to that. And also when con men are trying to con you, you get focused attention. Yeah. Which lots of people want and don't get. So like suddenly you have like, even if it, no matter what the, the face looks like or the height or the weight or whatever, you have a person that's got like kind of like

dialed into your shit. Yeah. I, I think you hung the moon and suddenly you're like, maybe I did. I don't know. Give me some of that. I was kind of wondering if I hung the moon because I felt special. I've always felt special. I've always felt like I had this gift.

So you've got to be careful. Okay. If people are like, you're really special. Yeah. That's fucking, that's the biggest red flag of all. Cause you're fucking not. And neither am I. None of us are.

Amen. And A, A. That's what you learn in A, A. Okay. So that's when Gurley's like, oh, you're, you're engaged to three other women. I've got to go. Peace. Goodbye. Okay. So when the police go to interview Dyson and I might be pronouncing that slightly wrong.

His house. Not real. So it's okay. It's his idea of what a Japanese name is. Which is like, it sounds like a bad VCR that you would have bought in 1987. I was thinking the exact electronic and old electronic. High five that foot. You high-fived my foot.

They go to Dyson's house. His house is empty. They find out he moved out the day before she, Gurley Chu went missing. And they, so they put out an APB for his now. Oh, points bulletin. I love that. Right. For his car.

He's a fake doctor. Fake though. Also a con man. Also a, a, a, a polygamist or whatever you call that a big amist. If you've married tons of people. What kind of, what kind of car color and make do you think he drove? Oh God. A fucking red trans am.

It was a whitey Zuzu. There was no way to, it was too obscure, but I just thought it'd be fun to play a fun guest. Okay. We're going that way. I would have guessed like Subaru or something. For some reason, when they said in the special, they put out the all points bulletin for his white Zuzu. I laughed out loud in my TV room.

A TV room is separate than the dining and living room. I guess I don't know what an Azuzu looks like. Well, I was thinking Azuzu trooper, which looks like a, like a, the poor man's Jeep. It's just a family car. It's no, it's kind of like a, well, the one I'm thinking of is almost like, I'm going to college and my dad wanted to give me this. Okay. Okay.

We, we don't know what that's like. Oh, I have us. Okay. So here's when they're searching his place, they find out that he belonged to a UFO believers club. Okay. And so they have to go down to the UFO believers club and start interviewing some people. That's got to be a fun day. This is, this is the thing where I want the special.

Like if we start really making the kind of true crime specials that everybody wants. Yeah. It's, you get all those cops together and you're like, so tell us about the UFO believers club. Tell us about each and every in detail. Yes. About them. Because you know, there are some people who were, who were wonderful and hilarious and brilliant. And then, you know, there's some people who are like the people.

Nosey and who want to keep like, I know more. I can give you information. Yes. Those fucking nosey Nellies. And then there were some people who were like, join me on Saturn. Okay. So they go talk to the people and one of the first people they meet is a woman named Linda Henning, who they later find out he was engaged to.

Of course he was. So Linda Henning, they don't think much of her at first. Linda Henning, and we all probably know this, but if you haven't seen any specials. I don't know this one. Oh, you don't? I don't know this. Oh, yay. Tell me everything.

Because you will love Linda Henning. I highly recommend that you go back. There is video of her talking. She is one of those people. I can't go back. You can't find it. There's individual videos of her being interviewed by the news because she got arrested. Okay.

And she is, I don't, I won't diagnose her. Do it. If it was my mom, my mom would be like, she's gone organic. I think she might be, she might be schizophrenic, but she has a lot of those things where she looks like the woman who's the star, the stewardess or the air hostess in the airplane. Her name's Julie something with the long hair. She's like a 70s, 80s actress. She looks almost exactly like that woman.

She's like actress, beautiful, big hair, you know, like, and she had, she's of course from Hollywood. She had been a model and then she was a fashion designer. Now she's in New Mexico with her fucking government UFO conspiracies and she is a serious believer. So they keep on pulling up these clips of her, holding up a drawing that she drew herself going, these are the lizard people that run our government and she's completely serious and seems almost like a newscaster, like convincing.

What if she's right? She could be right. There's other people that think this is not just her, but she has an intensity and she's also twitchy. Oh no. Yeah. So she's got a little bit of that, like you can see her resetting herself. Oh God.

To normalcy that I was enjoying watching. You can't take someone seriously who's spouting about aliens and twitching at the same time. Yeah. Those two things don't go hand in hand. I would say this. The twitching was subtle, but that was my, you know, when I'm collecting all the information so I can do the one woman show about her. There will be subtle twitching in it.

Yeah. Also she, so it was her theory is like lizard people run the government and also masons are all lizard people. Okay. Which I'm interested in, like tell me what you got. I see it. But all she did was in this thing, she had a, she had drawn a triangle on a piece of paper and she had put a circle inside and she went, this is the mason symbol. Oh my God.

And I was just like, no, it's not actually. It's a pyramid with an eye on top. Is she the one who like will describe on the dollar bill, like what's inside of all the, what every little thing means. And then when you fold it this way and you see the little picture that comes out. Yes. I'm fucking down. I am down and ready for that.

Get me a beer. Like let's, this is how the lizard people are communicating through our money. Right. Where it's like, well, you talk to me about it, fold it up symbols on money. What? And then what? Yeah. And then what are you going to do?

Then fold it and show it to me. Okay. Why don't we just talk? All right. So UFO believers club. I'm calling it that. I don't know what the actual name is, but I mean, it was people who got together because they were like, this is real.

Oh, I dig it. She had a, when she joined the UFO believers club and then Dyson joined it as well, she was engaged to be married to a different person. She immediately broke up with him and they started this love affair with Dyson. They bonded over their passionate belief in the impending alien takeover of our planet. And chicken wings. And their love of chicken wings. I want to, I want to put that into the script.

And chicken wings. Wait, you like chicken wings? I love chicken wings. I've never met anyone that likes chicken wings. Wait, ranch or blue cheese? Oh my God. It has to be blue cheese. Yes.

Marry me. Okay. So they go to interview Linda Henning. Okay. And because they're everyone in the UFO believers group is like, oh, Dyson's really good friends with Linda Henning and this other guy, Bill, they'll, no, go talk to them. Well, Linda Henning at her house, it seems totally normal, calm, kind of low key, but very quickly and start beginning to talk to these investigators.

She gives Dyson an alibi for the night that girlie she went missing and basically tried to tell them she was with him all night except for one hour. And they're like, okay, well, that's, it's a bit advanced for this conversation. So later on, they go to bring her in for questioning and she gives, when she goes over questioning, she gives some hair sample, a DNA sample. But then when they ask about Dyson, she kind of acts like she doesn't know him that well. She kind of, she's mispronouncing his name, calling him D or Doc instead of his name because she says she doesn't know how to pronounce it, which I relate to.

I relate to, but she claims she has no idea where he is and that she's never met girlie she doesn't know where she is, doesn't know anything about her. But then when they talk to Linda's coworkers, they find out that she's told them her and Dyson are about to get married. So when the police go back around to talk to Linda and ask her some follow up questions at her home, she's not there and she, they're calling her saying, go ahead and give us a call. She's avoiding them. So then they start surveilling her because they're like, what's going on?

She's checked into a hotel and then she moves hotels and then checks into another hotel. And she's basically like trying not to be found or seen. But what I love about that is that like it makes it sound like, and the cops were following her as she did it or just like, we see you. Yes, you just went from a daze into a motel sex. This is not good criminal behavior. Okay. So they search her car. Oh, sorry. When they go into her, they get a search warrant, they go into her house. Her house is filled with UFO conspiracy art that she has made herself.

Oh, I bet it's gorgeous. You know what it reminds me of? You know, when you're in like high school chemistry class and you start doodling and you're like, wait, I'm good at drawing. Yes. It's that's what it all looks like. It's like kind of like it looks like women in in cat suits, lizards with half human faces, but it's all like in a blue ballpoint pen.

And she thinks it's important too. Like it's someone's communicated with her through it. She very much believes that this is real. And it is, it's, you can tell that it is a big problem for her. Like it's a concern and it's not, it's not fucking around. It's overwhelming. And it's not. Yeah. She's like, she believes that our planet's being taken over by aliens.

She's one of the only people that knows it's classic schizophrenic, like paranoid schizophrenia, but I won't, but I won't label it. But I like to theorize about people's mental status. It's fun. I just said status like I was British. I don't know why it's happening. But yeah, she's, her house is filled with this art. And also she's got a lot of colored art sand in her garage,

which is really odd. They showed a picture of her garage and it's like, you know that thing where you're like, you know what I'm going to get into? Yeah. I'm going to get into art sand. I'm going to fill bottles with different colored sand. I'm going to sell it at the flea market. Yeah.

So, but it's, it's like a bunch of crates full of it. So she didn't just get one kit. No. She was like into it. If you're really going to get into it, you have to spend $500 on it. That you have to go to Joanne Faberks all day. Yeah. Yeah.

You have to make a problem. So I did that once with cross with needlepoint. Did you really? I mean, I didn't spend that much money on it, but I was like, I'm going to get into this. I have to. No, I don't. I want, I same with me and paint by numbers.

Oh, that's fun. I'm going back. Do it. I think paper number, here's my only problem. If I'm going to sit at home and do nothing, I'm going to do that a watching TV and be laying down. I'm not going to do a project. Why?

Because I love to lay down. That's my project. What's a project you could do while you lay down? Sleep. Dream. Catch up on sleep. Have some dreams. Okay.

So they go to her house. They find all this crazy fucking shit that makes them go, she's not your average member of the UFO Believers Club. She's taken the UFO Believers Club and she's in like a Harrison Ford movie level crisis with the UFO Believers where it's like impending doom. Yeah. Very, very sad and awful.

Yeah. Sorry, I laughed. No, I'm sorry. It's also, the art is terrible. So it's just- I'm sorry, I laughed. There's a lot of elements. Wishing her well.

Okay, go on. No, you don't have to. She did bad things. Good, good, good. Then they search her car. They find out it's just been washed and that there's a receipt for having her tires balanced. And the cops immediately think the area and that highway

outside of Albuquerque where they found Gurley Chu's bloody clothes was all crazy bumpy roads while road workers were out there. And if she drove out there, she would have to get her tires redone. Oh, shit. That's what she gave back. So they basically, the more they look into stuff,

they find out that when they look at Linda Henning's bank records, Linda Henning, who had claimed to have not know Gurley Chu and never met her and know nothing about her, had actually switched banks and had started going to Gurley Chu's branch of her bank. And Gurley had been her teller at that bank several times. So she was like spying on her. She was up in her business big time

and absolutely knew who she was. Uh-oh. So- Don't lie to the cops, ding-dongs. You fucking lizard. You're the lizard person. I mean, just in general, like, especially I think I'm going to be that obvious about it.

Shoot, if you're your bank teller, don't fucking lie to the cops about it. Well, also, I guess it's different now because there are cameras everywhere now and stuff, but it's just that those, when you see those people who, the people who make up crimes to do and thinking they're going to get away with it because they think they're smarter than cops,

where it's like, you're so not them. You're like one of the most stupid people we know, but you think you're smarter than not. Like, the people who think they're smarter than the cops and who get away with it are the most idiotic people. Yes. Also, that makes, sorry, quick sidebar. My friend Bridger Winiger and I went and saw a movie

called American Animals. Mm-hmm. Did you see the imposter, that documentary? Mm-hmm. It's the same director. Mm-hmm. It's really fucking good, and it's a true story. About which one?

Of these guys that tried to steal these really rare, valuable Audubon books from a college, and they were like college-age themselves. Nerds. It's a really good movie. You have to go see it. Everyone has to go see it. Okay, anyway.

Okay. Back to this piece of paper. Um, so then, and I'm not sure exactly where this happened in the timeline, but I'm throwing it in here, our friend Julie McGuire, who was getting the beauty treatments and was told that she was going to live forever, one of his girlfriends, called the police because, and told them that when she, when Girlie Chew is missing,

she was missing, um, Dyson told her he was livid about, that he was going to have to pay Girlie $60,000 in their divorce settlement, and he was like out of his mind, livid about it, and he said that- Motive. What? Sorry, motive.

Yes. I thought you said noted. Oh. It's like, all right. You're listening? Good. He actually said to Julie that, that Girlie would never see a dime of that money

that she was supposed to be getting because she was going to disappear. And- Don't, don't do that. Right? And then Julie said to him, what are you talking about people? Like, you can't make people disappear.

The cops find them, like that- Yeah. And he said to her, not if they're dissected. Shut up, dude. Which is also, but also that's such a weird, anyway. And it's also not, then she's like, no, yeah, also if they're dissected.

Right. And just in general, it's, you're not going to get away with it. But anyway, we love Julie McGuire because she's like, guess what? That guy was my boyfriend, but this is bad, bad, bad. Totally good for her. So then the lab comes back with some results

on that full apartment carpet that they pulled out of Girlie's apartment. They had small amounts of blood evidence that they had found. And this was the reason they were like, they would have just cut out this strip that was just those three blood stains. Uh-huh.

Because that blood was Girlie Chew's. But when they pull the whole carpet, they find blood stains and the blood belongs to Linda Heading. What? Yeah. They, and they weren't expecting it either. So they're just like, holy shit. So they, now she's indicted for murder.

Oh my God. Dyson Haasenkopf is nowhere to be found. They know who knows where he is. Then they, police get a tip from one of his neighbors saying, she had just gotten a call where he threatened her and then hung up. And so the cops are like, dial star 69. And so she does.

No. And yes. And it turns out he's in South Carolina. What? So the cops go arrest him. Yes. So the, when I was in high school, when whatever it was, ATT or whoever did it,

came out with that package where you could get call waiting, call forwarding and star 69. It changed lives. Yeah. It changed everything. It was a really big deal. You couldn't print call anymore. Yes. Do you want to hear a celebrity secret?

Yes. When I very first moved to town in 1994 or five, four, I had a big crush on Jack Black who was in our social circle. Yeah. And one time I called, somebody gave me his phone number. I don't know why. And I called it. And then when he answered, I hung up.

You did not. And he fucking starts. No, he didn't. And I said, Did you know that he was doing that? Or did you just answer the phone like it was normal? I answered the phone because I think I was expecting a call from somewhere else. Okay. And he didn't think that he had star 69.

So you just picked it up. I picked it up and then he goes, did you just call me? And I went, it was a mistake. And then I acted mad and was like, yeah, it was a mistake. And then I just hung up. That's the perfect, when you act mad, like you're annoyed with someone else. Yeah.

Yeah. And what did he do? He, I don't know it was me. I waited. We weren't that, we didn't, I didn't know him that well at the time. So I just like held my breath and waited it out. And then never, never heard back. And then the next time ever since then you've been weird.

He's like, she's always weird around me. I don't know what I did to piss her off. No, no, no. I think then we got to know each other after that. And he was around and I, it was that kind of thing where I was like, maybe I did call your house and hang up. Maybe I did. Maybe that's how I express my intense love, Jack Black,

who talk about, I don't think he's psychotic, but the first time I met him, it was like the whole rest of the room went away. He's so dynamic. Well, he's also so talented. It was like they had just done Tenacious D, you know, three songs. Everyone's like, what, who are these people? And then just to talk to him in person,

he's just got charisma coming out. A wear of his telephone. It's private. It's private. This has been Jack Black Corner. I don't know why I'm talking about this. I'm trying to tell a story. Okay.

So they go to, they go bring him out of South Carolina. His perfect hiding place. Star 69 him out. Jack Black plays one of the cops that pulls him out of South Carolina. He had only been on the lam for three weeks. Already living with a woman in, well, he was in South Carolina. So I'm talking about, you got it. It's like everyone, we all need group therapy to like get ourselves out

that we don't need guys like this. Yeah. And I'll, or just be a guy like that. Like what do you do to get to be the person that can be on the lamp? First of all, you have all this stuff to do of like avoiding the police. Yeah. And then you kick up a relationship with some stranger. But there's time for a little, you're, you make time.

I think that's what, that's. George just went, and then brought that can of wine right up to her lips. Tell me about it. Girl, tell me about being on the lamp and in relationships. All right. Sorry. So they find when, when he's arrested, he has girly choose address book and a piece of her jewelry, two things that she had not left at her house

when she left him, two things that she had on her person. So they were like, this is, you know, evidence. They also, in the place where he was staying in South Carolina, they found guns and they found a steam cleaner with human blood in it. Trace evidence of human blood. You stupid idiot. So they're, they bring him back to New Mexico. He's charged with making interstate threats because that's the only

concrete evidence that they have. They don't, nothing, nothing ties to the murder. To hold them. But they have them, yeah, they can hold them for, for getting star 69. Calling his neighbor and being like, hey, don't tell anyone. Hey, hang up. All right. So they start looking around the area, going back to search because they're the,

basically now they need the body, girly choose body. They have to find what has happened to her so that they can tie him in because they're like, this guy is, they like him for it. As cops like to say, he's good for it, but they have no evidence. So when they go out to that desolate highway outside of the fucking Albuquerque, the area on the sides of the highway is, is dotted with mines, abandoned mine shafts. And they said there's so many out there and some of them are so deep that you throw a rock down and you never hear anything.

What? So like, oh, what are at the bottom of those? Right. So, so the police tried to search some of them near where the clothes were found. But after a while they're just like, well, we didn't find anything. And you can't, they're not even mapped. There are so many mines out there, which I just, that idea of that type of police where it was like, that's nauseatingly.

Yeah. Just endless searching. Come on. Just the thought that you could throw something down one of those and it'll never be seen again. It's like, it makes me feel empty. Yeah. It's very, it's very bad. Although if you had, say you wrote out a story about an embarrassing thing you did to Jack Black,

you could ball that up and throw it down at a mine and not say it on a podcast. But what's the fun in that? I went slept. Can I, I want me to cut your eyes just lit up. Maybe here in my shame spiral. I'll give you one. I'll give you a good one. My friend and I called each other.

We were on the phone with each other. I just dumped a dude. I was like 19. I just like broken up with a guy and we were on the phone. And I was like, let's listen to like his voicemail. Like his outgoing voicemail like was our song. And I was like, look, he changed his song. Let's call it and you can listen.

So we called and we listened to the voicemail and then we like, or like, oh my God, I can't believe it. Like, blah, blah, blah, blah, I just feel bad. And like, I just don't like, I wasn't attracted to him. Like just like talking, talking shit. And then it was like, your message has been sent. I forgot to hang up after we listened to his fucking outgoing voicemail. How awful is that?

Wait, can I just ask you to answer honestly? Were you on drugs? No, I was not on drugs. Just stupid. Just 19. People don't appreciate how these days no one uses the phone ever. Well, it's the thing of texting the wrong person. Yes.

It's texting the person you're thinking of saving their thing from three months ago. Yeah. Embarrassing thing. But God, there was so much bad behavior around answering machines in my past. Also, one time I was super stoned in my apartment and I was listening to my messages and my sister left me such a long message that halfway through I forgot it was a message and I started fighting with her. And I got really mad.

I was like, stop talking over me. What are you doing? And I was like, there's this whole thing. And then it was like, all right, talk to you later. Beep. And I was like, oh my God. Send us your embarrassing stories to my favorite murder Gmail. What horrible thing have you done on an answering machine?

Yeah, around phones, around texting, around all of them. And you can make them modern, but I guess texting ones are good. Yeah, modern is fine. And yeah, go ahead. OK. My favorite murder Gmail. Dot com. Dot com.

Dot com. OK, go ahead. So, and then guess what happened? Tell me, I'm the suspense. I'm just trying to read. OK, OK, OK. So they get more evidence back. So it's this trace evidence that they're getting off of this humongous piece of carpet

and what they find is single hair from Dyson on that carpet. That's it? A single hair. But they're like, OK, this is enough. So we know he was there. It's not going to hold up on court. But now we know we've got a time to it. But they also find colored sand, glitter.

Oh, my God. And dyed animal, dyed animal hair and gray human hair. So they're like other people were in that apartment. Yeah. So it wasn't just girly chew, wasn't just Dyson, wasn't even just Linda. It was a little, and then they find lizard skin. And then they find the entire Bush family photo album. That's a big theory that the Bush family are lizard people.

Oh. Mm-hmm. Pass it on, please. OK, so then they find a picture that Linda has drawn in Linda's house. They find a bunch of love letters between Linda and Dyson. But then they also find a drawing of a warrior queen dressed for battle against aliens. Let me guess, that's her. Yeah.

In a letter to Dyson. And in the picture, she's wearing like, it's one of the cat. She looks like cat woman, essentially, but with like slightly different decorations. OK. And she's holding a sword. In the ceiling of Linda Henning's garage at her house, they find a ninja sword with blood on it. And it's not enough blood. They couldn't pull DNA, but they could tell it had been cleaned and that there was trace amounts of blood.

Also, the investigators were like, a samurai sword is a warrior sword for like war battle. A ninja sword is for assassins. Woo-hoo. So it's smaller, thinner blade. I don't know much about it, so I'm not going to say anything. That sounds right. Get the sword people mad at me. But then they go, OK, so this is here.

Let's relook at the shirt that we found that belonged to Girlie Chu that had blood on it. And start comparing. Comparising. No. Comparicizing. Comparicize it. Did she wipe the blade off with the shirt? With that the stab wounds were from that sword, that is what they were testing to try to see.

And as they do that, and they're re-examining Girlie Chu's shirt that they had found, the lab finds Dysan Hasenkov's blood and saliva on one shoulder of the shirt. So now they have evidence that he was there when Girlie Chu was murdered. Oh my god. Poor Girlie. And the other person that is there, because they go back to the UFO group. And they re-interview them. Yep.

And they find out from them that there was a third person in Dysan and Linda's little group. And it's a guy named Bill Miller. He was a member of the UFO group. He was an older man. He was a survivalist and an outdoorsman. And the three of them, Linda, Bill and Dysan, used to drive to the UFO believers meetings together. And they also did stuff on the weekends. And they showed this picture.

I bet they were the most boring people to hang out with. Well, I bet the conversation was hard to follow. They seemed like the kind of people where you're just like, guys, we were just talking about movies. And now we're back into this alien takeover shit. Or even like, I was following your alien takeover shit. But this is like, what, are you, warrior princesses? This is crazy.

How about we do one weird topic per car ride? You can't just pick a bunch of them. Yeah. Don't just list off. Linda, Linda, hold on. Linda, it's usually you. Linda, you keep switching topics. There's a picture of the three of them at like,

it looks like they're at the river together. And they look so fucking normal. And it's another wave that I got of like, I think this is personally for me, the appeal of true crime. These are the people that live next door to you. These are the people that are standing at the river, taking a fucking picture. And meanwhile, they have kidnapped, murdered,

and hid in the body of a woman. Oh my God. It's just so goddamn sinister. The banality of evil. Look it up. Okay. So it turns out that Dyson had told Linda that he was a 7,000 year old space alien that it had been on the planet

since before these newer aliens showed up. Okay. And the newer aliens were the ones that are trying to take over. And he was actually here, put on the planet. But he's a good guy. He's the good alien that was here to keep it from happening. Okay. And he said the only way to keep these new aliens

from taking over is to kill their queen. And do you know who the queen is? No. The queen is his wife, girly chiddle. He took advantage of her kind of crazy brain. A hundred percent. Oh my God. Which is the classic con man thing.

It's classic con man of what's your weakness. What's the thing that's got you all turned around? Oh, me too. I can't believe it. I'm just like you. Me too. We're a team. Oh, that's so awful.

It's very sad and very crazy. So he's like, he's high level con man psychopath. So she wouldn't have killed girly if she didn't think that she was. She needed to do it. Yeah. To rid this planet of the alien takeover. Oh my God. Yes.

And she also, well, but there's more to it. Okay. So the trial starts. So they have enough to bring him to trial. And when he goes to make his plea, he surprises everybody and pleads guilty. Good. And in this special, they talk about how New Mexico had just put someone to death.

And they think that that while he was being held, he was like, oh, shit, that could happen to me. So he was just like, fine, you got me. Um, but he would not tell them where girly choose body was. No. Um, uh, he says that he and a man named Bill Miller, who's the third guy from the UFO believers club, um, they did it and that Linda Henning had nothing to do with it.

Um, he said that he didn't even that Bill Miller wanted to kill a person that he was excited to do it. He'd always wanted to hunt a human being and that he didn't even have to pay him to help kill his wife. Fuck. Yes. Um, then Linda Henning's cellmate comes forward and she says that Linda, when she just went up to Linda and was like, what did you do with that woman's body?

And without words, Linda made a gesture indicating that they had eaten her. This is the craziest story I've ever heard. It's beyond. How they never watched this one. It's also, you have to watch it because, uh, you have to see this guy kind of in action. He's like, like when he's doing the perp walk, he's laughing really loud. Like he's doing those things where he knows everything is a decision being made about what like the impact is going to be a good cult leader.

Yes. I think a hundred percent. Okay. I mean, he's thousands of dollars. If you have leukemia, you have to be pretty good. The con man has to be pretty good to convince you to spend like all the rest of your money totally on a, on a cancer curing. Totally.

Like that's crazy. So she, mine was eating them. But she, I mean, that's just what that woman said. Okay. And it could have been who knows what it meant. Uh, Dyson Haasankoff gets sentenced to life in prison. Thank God. But, but they, in getting him to agree to plead guilty,

the death sentence got taken off the table. Linda goes to trial. So Linda Henning denies all invite involvement in Gurley's murder. She says quote, and this is one of the videos that you can watch. And this is one of those ones where she keeps twitch resetting every third sentence. I mean, listen, I've never done anything to cause the death of a two legged or four legged creature. It's always been my belief from day one that the blood was planted. I wasn't there.

Nope. And then she also says, in every past life I've been murdered. So what am I up for now? The death penalty. Like, isn't that ironic? Elana's morse. Oh honey, you're fucking batshit. She's cray.

When she went to trial, they, they had the death penalty on the table for her. No way. Yeah. And then her friend testifies and this woman's testimony is in this special. So I'm sure you can see it somewhere. She says that Linda told her that she, that Linda had been appointed the queen of the world. And that it was her responsibility to defend the world from other queens who are trying to take over from, they're coming from other planets to take over.

What if your friend said that to you over like mimosas? I'd just be like, you fucking nut. Anyway, I'm going out of town for a while. Do you want to stay at my house with my four, my four legged animals? Or two legged animals. Whatever. I, I'm almost positive that when I wouldn't do stuff like say chores around the house, my mom would call me the queen of the world.

But I might be rewriting that just because it's so funny. But the idea that you would turn, you'd turn to your friend and be like, look, I got to tell you something. I know, I know things have been weird lately, but I'm the queen of the world. Not America. The whole fucking planet. Oh, that icy chill you'd get and you're like, I need to turn my friend over to the hospital.

Yes. How are we going to do this? Yes. I'm going to back away. Hey, you know where they have a great fro-yo place? In the hospital. At this psych ward, the hospital. Follow me.

They have the best frozen yogurt, but you have to commit yourself to a 48 or eight hour whole. Exactly. But it'll be worth it. Yeah. I'll just, then I crush up some fucking anti-psychotics into her fro-yo. Here's the other thing too. If you think you're the queen of the world,

and I mean in this way where you feel like you have to kill other people because you have to defend the world, don't take that all on by yourself. Commit yourself to a 48 hour cycle and figure out what's actually going on. Get some other voices in there. Get some, do you think I'm the queen of the world? No. No. Oh, sorry.

You weren't asking me. Oh, are we fighting? No, we were doing, no. Are we fighting now? I knew you didn't think I was the queen of the world. I do think Elvis is an alien, but that's a, I'm not going to kill anyone over it. Do you think he's the king of the world?

Elvis is the king. All right. Okay, let's focus please. We got to get through this. I'm the one that put my paper all the way down, but we need to focus. Okay. This is a four hour episode. It really is.

So, so then Dysen Hasenkoff comes to testify at Linda Henning's trial. Oh dear. And it's the full show. He's grown out as nails, which he knows is the grossest thing a man can do. He's smiling like a lunatic. He's just got that thing where it's like, it's very Charles, it's,

it's like poor man Charles Manson. Yeah, it sounds like it. Um, and he's talking, he does a little speech about how he hopes that girly suffered more than anyone on the planet. Like he does this whole speech about her murder that's so horrible, but he's doing it with this weird smile

and you're just like, this is all dumb. It's corny. It's like over the top. But he still maintains that Linda Henning had nothing to do with the murder. And he said that, he, he says that he planted Linda's blood in girly's apartment to throw off investigators.

Well, investigators are like, yeah, that doesn't throw anybody off. It's evidence. Literally do us directly to you. And also what we, what they honestly think it was, is they think he was setting Linda Henning up for this murder. Oh.

They think he was trying to lay that out. And then it was like, he got caught and it was like, it was out of his hands. Which is even sadder because when Linda Henning talks about Dyson, even after her arrest, she's clearly still in love with him. Oh no.

Yeah. She thinks he's amazing. She thinks he's the greatest. It's so nuts. She's convicted of first degree murder and kidnapping, but she doesn't get the death penalty. She, she gets life in prison. And at the time it was the most extensive

forensic investigation in New Mexico history. Why the fuck sake? How have we never heard of this? It's so crazy. Bill Miller, the third party, he was, no charges were ever brought against him. No. A grand jury found that there was not enough evidence to charge him.

Well, I don't like him. I don't either. And he doesn't seem like a nice person. I don't like his profile. And the special, I saw it a couple of times. He looks like somebody that would yell at you at like outside of Best Buy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that is the horrible guy. Murderer of Gurlichu. Fuck, dude. Thank you for, thank you for that. I mean, thank you and really thank crime stories for really letting me retell their story. Because that's what happened. And thank you Zoe Clark for reminding me of this.

I feel like I've seen at least three episodes on this. That's crazy. Yeah. Because it's like fodder. It's like perfect. Yeah. You know, crime show fodder. It's got everything.

And it makes me want to join a UFO believers club. It's like, what's going on? Let's do it. Okay. Just to open up our social circle. What if we accidentally join a cult? It'd be good for the podcast. It would be.

People are like, get out. Then they rescue us. Oh, that'd be so fun. That's so nice of them. All right. Fuckin' hooray. What's the thing that's been making you happy lately? Well,

Nico Kase's new album is called Hell On. It just came out. Cool. It's so fucking good. Great. But she's always perfect. I think she's one of those people that suffers from the fact that she, from when she first started going when she was doing like Nico Kase and her

boyfriends and her first couple projects, she's always been so like 10 out of 10 stars perfect that like it's almost like she doesn't get appreciated enough anymore. That's how I feel about it. There's never like this transcendent one because they're all like that. It's every song she writes, you're like, how did you think of that lyric? This is the best tune I've ever heard. Your voice makes me want to cry.

It's just my favorite. That's amazing. Also, Courtney Barnett has a new album out. I love her. Called Tell Me How You Really Feel. And it is amazing. And it's such a good album as well. One of her songs, the chorus of it is,

Men Are Afraid That Women Will Laugh At Them, Women Are Afraid That Men Will Kill Them. That's the, oh dear. It's such, I'm not sure what the, I can't remember what the song is called, but it's such a good album. Yeah. It's really good. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Mine is, so I'm trying to get my fucking brain wrapped around like money matters and like dealing with money and like what to do with money and like where do you put it? If it's not under your mattress, like. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Like money matters and like dealing with money and like what to do with money and like where do you put it? If it's not under your mattress, like, you know, so there's a podcast about it, it turns out. Oh, that's good. Yeah. And there's one that I found called Her Money Matters by Jen Hemphill that she just interviews money experts, but in a way, but it's for women and it's, it makes, it makes a lot of sense and every episode is a different topic. So you can find the topics that speak to you and so far it's. What you're curious about.

Yeah. So it's really good and. That sounds great. Yeah. It's, it's simple. It makes it really simple. You know, that's really smart too because it's like Oprah did that with Susie Arman where it's like, no women, you have to, you have to keep your eye on it and you have to be business people.

Yeah. It's important. And so the topics are like stuff about debt and being scared of money and how to have emotional, not have emotional, it's, it's everything. So if you're like, but I don't want to think about money, there's like an episode about that. So that's great. You have to do it. I see you're looking at me.

I see you looking at me. George, I see you look. I think you're the queen of the world and I think you're great with money and I think you have no problems. I mean, because here's the thing about money. I think women, there's storylines of like, would the women be shopping storylines of like, whatever, I'm upset. I have to go shopping or all these things that like you get told that almost like it's like you're playing a part. Yeah. Instead of like, no, go be a fucking business person.

Well, there's also Jensen Cesaro who wrote You Are a Badass. It's You Are a Badass. She also now is one about You Are a Badass at making money. Oh, good. And it's, you know, it's directed to women, but it's for everyone. But it also is around those things of like, she talks about like, what does money mean to you? Like, write the first five things down and it's like based on when you were a kid, all that shit. So like, when I was a kid, we used to go, go and grocery shopping was called, let's go bounce a check.

Because we had no fucking money. And I thought we were going to get chased down in the street and like arrested. So like, your, your, your emotional attachment to money is so deep and it affects everything in your life. So just, you can get a hold of it as an adult woman and make it about, make it work for you. Yes. You should and you deserve to. And you'll feel, you'll feel really good about yourself. That's awesome.

Check those out. Oh, you know what I want? Can I just say one more thing? Yes. This is not, it's not a fucking hooray, but it's, it's almost just more of a something, just something to put out there. Because there was a couple things on Twitter last week. And it was a couple things that were related to people talking to people who didn't like our podcast. What?

And one of them was a really well written kind of analytical thread about what she thinks about what the podcast means. Why are you reading this shit? No, it's just, it came up. Okay. And the other one was somebody who was upset because they heard somebody on another podcast, not liking our podcast. And actually adding the person and then adding us and then being like, this broke my heart. And I think this, and I just want to say this. First of all, I know that both of those things came from love and they were trying to like communicate like we care about you and whatever.

But we don't, that's fine if people, we know that this podcast is not for everybody. And we're not interested in converting people who don't like us. We don't need to do that and we, and we're fine with it. So we certainly don't want to hear about it when it's happening. Yeah. But on top of that, you don't need to feel like you have to change that situation or convince anybody of anything. Like we have our little community and we're doing great and we're having a great time. I think what's so great about our little community is that it's filled with people who like, like, were each other's allies in a thing that not everyone is into.

And they shouldn't be. We don't need to convince people. Yeah. And they don't need to be. That's why we like each other so much. Exactly. We're the ones who are into it. And it's like from the beginning when people would be like, oh, you have vocal fry or whatever.

It's like, then don't fucking listen to the podcast. Yeah. We don't give a shit. Like if you don't like it, if somebody doesn't like it, you don't have to convince them of anything. You can be like, okay, cool. The end. And also I think the person who was adding, the person who was on a podcast, I would like to say this. I don't know who the person was that I don't have the podcast.

Yeah. Especially if it was a woman, pause on your need to correct or tell someone they can't say something. Because for me, all I've, when I started stand up, all I did was criticize people and say what I hated and say I didn't like something. That's your, that's that person's right to do. Yeah. They get to have a critical thought. This is a very popular thing right now that like criticizing popular culture is what most podcast are all about. If people want to do that and say, hey, I don't like this, they can.

And I stand by that. And especially if it's a woman going, hey, I don't like this thing, do not correct them. Do not tell them they don't get to say that. It's, it's just like, think of it in that way of like, all these things can exist simultaneously. People don't have to get along. This is not a theme wedding. It all doesn't have to go together. You can have all these different likes and things and the end.

The only person, the only person that we need to convince to like us. Is Paul Hulse. Is Chrissy Teigen. And Paul Hulse and everyone else. Those are our top two. But don't say that because people have already harassed Chrissy Teigen because she was like, I like true crime podcasts. What should I listen to? She asked for it.

Okay, but I mean, we're not relaunching that fucking, because I watched that wave go where I was like, anytime that happens. I'm like, please end it as soon as possible. Yeah. What we want to say is we fucking love you guys. We love you guys. And you support us. You guys fight our fights for us. And we appreciate that so much.

I love when someone's mean on Instagram. And I don't need to say anything because fucking 10 rad murdering. I was like, fuck you. And here's why. Yeah, well, I never worry about that shit because there's always somebody that comes in and is just usually in a really funny way. They're just like, yeah, whatever, dude. So don't worry. What we're saying is we're so fucking lucky that we have this community and we don't need the fucking haters.

We just don't need you to worry. And the alien lizard robot people. Like we've got each other and that's a lot. We're great. What's that from? We got each other and that's all. What is that from? Got to hold on to what we, wait, no.

Is it? We got each other and that's a lot to work. Don't sue us, Bon Jovi. Thanks for listening, you guys. You're the best. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.

Goodbye. Elvis. Elvis, you want a cookie? Yeah. Goodbye.